Transcript

Welcome back to Seamus Potpourri.

I'm Joe Heshmeyer, and I'm actually here at the Catholic Creator Conference.

And I was thinking, as we get near to the end of summer, some of you are gonna have a little bit of free time, maybe go down to the beach or the lake, somewhere where you might be thinkin', I should get something good to read.

And I thought this would be a great opportunity to ask some of my favorite Catholic creators, who you may or may not have heard of, a book that was life-changing for them.

So, let's start with you.

If you would, please introduce yourself.

Well, my name is Keith Nestor, and I'm a former Protestant pastor, Catholic convert, and I make videos on YouTube and all that kind of stuff.

And where can people find you?

Well, they can go to down2earthministry.org, and that's down, the number 2, earthministry.org for my website.

Or, you can just search Keith Nestor on YouTube and you can find me there.

And what's a book that has changed your life?

I think the most pivotable book, most pivotable book to me is The Faith of Our Fathers by James Cardinal Gibbons.

That was the book that sealed the deal for my conversion, and I probably look through that book at least once every couple of years, just again.

Because to me, that was a book that spoke to who I was.

He was writing to Protestants in, in his time, which was in the early 20th century.

And it's so clear, it just punches you in the face, which is the kind of book I need, 'cause I'm not a real intellectual reader guy.

I needed someone to just talk to me where I was, and that book nailed the Catholic apologetic to me, uh, in a profound way.

Beautiful.

Faith of Our Fathers, and it's for anyone who may be coming from Protestantism or interested in Protestant, Catholic kind of questions, and sounds very readable.

Give me just an example of some of the arguments he gets in.

And you don't have to go, like-

Sure

super deep, but like, what kind of topics does he cover?

Well, he covers like, the papacy, which I know you're familiar with it.

Yeah.

He talks a lot ab- he talks about that in just a couple of chapters that are real easy to digest.

And he gives specific examples of things like, Well, why are there appeals to the Bishop of Rome if, you know, the papacy isn't true?

And he speaks t- to, to an audience that he knows is having these objections.

Yeah.

So, he talks about that.

He talks about the canon of Scripture a lot.

So, things that people who are into apologetics are familiar with, but the way that he phrases that and the way that he p- puts that was something to a Protestant's ears that really, it almost felt like he was anticipating everything I was going to say-

Yeah

before I said it.

And he talks a lot about some of the stuff that you wrote in, like, your book, Pope Peter, about why the Lord singles Peter out, why the Lord calls Peter to this min- to this ministry.

And he shows in the Book of Acts, for example, when Peter speaks, that shuts the debate down.

And then how that decision was then carried out to all the other churches.

So, the way he talks was, was pretty amazing.

One thing I thought was very interesting though, kind of in the light of one of the things that we deal with today with people that talk about like, the liturgy wars or whatever, is he makes the case for why the, the um, the, the Church should still be using Latin, and why that's a good thing.

Of course, then it got changed, of course.

Sure.

But, so that I think it's kind of funny, you know.

But, um, it was just a great read.

It's definitely one that changed my life.

Excellent.

Thank you so much.

I appreciate that.

My pleasure.

Well, thanks for joining.

Please, uh-

Thank you for having me.

Introduce yourself and explain where we can find you or maybe can't find you.

Uh, my name is Max.

I'm the husband of the Religious Hippie, and I made it such that no one can find me.

Yeah, you're usually behind the scenes.

I like being part of your kind of debut.

What's a book that has been life-changing for you?

Well, I'm gonna cheat and I'm gonna mention two, but I think their two books that go really well together.

Uh, they're both books by Saint, uh, Louis de Montfort.

They're, um, True Devotion to Mary and Secret of the Rosary.

And they were really impactful for me because they taught me about the necessity of devotion to Mary.

I think it allowed me to enter more deeply into the mystery of Our Lady.

And, um, I remember when I first converted, I had a tendency to over-intellectualize the faith and systematize it into a kind of philosophy.

Reading that just allowed me to enter more deeply into the mystery, and, uh, yeah.

Yeah, the, the way he writes, people tend to either connect at a more emotional level, like you just said, or they get really scandalized.

In- and I like John Henry Newman's counsel, which I, I think was inspired, at least in part, by his own reaction to reading him, which is, We don't read love letters like police reports.

Mm-hmm.

And you don't want to conflate the style of writing to say, Wait, that couldn't literally be true, but, you know, understanding, understanding the way it's meant to be, uh, received.

So, did you read that as a Protestant or as a Catholic?

Uh, well, I actually converted from atheism.

Oh, I'm sorry.

I actually didn't know.

I knew you were a convert, I didn't know your backstory.

Yeah.

Um, but I, I actually didn't read those books until after I converted.

Okay.

Uh, but I remember Our Lady played a significant role in my conversion, because I remember, uh, one time I was just having, uh, dinner with my, my mom and my girlfriend at the time, and I was just kind of talking to them about Our Lady.

And because at the time I was interested in Catholicism-

Mm-hmm

but I hadn't really committed to converting yet.

And I was just talking about, uh, the beauty of the role of Our Lady and everything, and it, I just started weeping uncontrollably.

It was absolutely insane.

Wow.

Yeah.

Beautiful.

Thank you-

Thank you

for sharing that.

That's tremendous.

Yeah, thank you.

All right.

Well, that's two good books people can check out.

So first, please introduce yourself.

Hi, my name's Evan Raugust.

I'm a YouTuber and a proud Catholic.

And where can people find you?

Uh, just Evan Raugust.

Can you spell it?

Yes.

So, it's E-V-A-N and then R and then August.

Perfect.

And you've been blowing up on the internet, if you don't mind me saying so.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's been insane.

It's, it's some pretty amazing, amazing stuff.

So, what books would you r- or what book would you recommend people, uh-

Yeah

that you've found just personally life changing?

What books have you written?

No, no.

Not that I've written.

Please, don't do that.

Uh, on a serious note, um, man, one book that really changed my life was Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis.

I love that book.

I love how C.S. Lewis just makes it so simple, makes it so easy to understand that literally any denomination, you can watch it, read it, and it's, you're just, I'm just blown away by it.

I love C.S. Lewis's He, he's great.

He's great.

Yeah.

And, and that particular series, I'm sure you, you know this, but it, it's adapted from radio talks.

Mm-hmm.

So everything is written in this extremely easy to read style because it was originally written to be listened to.

Yeah.

So the prose is, it's succinct and clear and it's, oh, it's bracingly beautiful.

Yeah.

That's an excellent choice.

That's-

Yes

one of my favorite books.

Yeah, yeah.

No, it's great.

Yeah.

Excellent.

Thank you so much.

That, that's tremendous.

Yes, sir.

First, could you introduce yourself?

Okay, cool.

Yeah.

I'm Braden from the Catechumen.

I run that YouTube channel dedicated to Protestant-Catholic dialogue, so

Wonderful.

And what is a book that you found personally life-changing-

Oh

people might add to their summer reading list?

I know.

It's so hard to pick one book, but, uh, there's this really good book from a really awesome, uh, l- not really awesome, I'll just say like just an apologist.

Uh, his name is, um, Joe Eschmeyer and, uh, he wrote this book called, uh, The Early Church was the Catholic Church.

And I, I'm actually being serious.

I was gonna say, okay, side, this is gonna be a few other books.

Okay.

Roses Among Thorns, Fra- Saint Francis de Sales.

Really, really good devotional book.

I went through that with my wife, and it really helped me bridge the gap, um, of being guilty for not having time to study as much and pray as much, um, because we had a kid, so couldn't wake up early.

Um, and it's, it's crazy how applicable his advice is to, um, people with like, uh, who, who, who are vo- their vocation is just the married life-

Yes

and, and having like a, just being among the lady, right?

So, uh, very, very good book.

Sorry we said it so late.

Can I throw in a quick aside?

Yeah, do it.

Uh, Saint John Paul I has-

Mm-hmm

a beautiful essay comparing Francis de Sales and Jose Maria Escriva as like two saints with a particular devotion to the lay apostolate.

Mm.

But, so yeah.

Your read of him-

Yeah

was saying, like this really, this hits home for-

Yeah

like a married person more than most spiritual writing.

Yeah.

It's 'cause it is.

I- it absolutely is.

It's 4:00.

It's so good.

And it's like, you know, if you're, if you're trying to be faithful in a way that takes away from your vocation, from, from your, from your time to your kids and your wife that's inordinate, then you're not being faithful, right?

Yeah, so you have to have a balance there.

But no, seriously, your, your book, uh, The Early Church was the Catholic Church really helped me, uh, bridge the gap in my conversion.

I had already made, um, a lot of the pathway there on my own, but then when that book came out, I was like, Okay, I gotta read this, right?

'Cause I'm coming from a Baptist perspective, and it seemed like a lot of the questions that you were, uh, addressing, baptism, uh, the three-tier church hierarchy, apostolic succession, that sorta stuff, really resonated with me.

And so it really helped me, um, understand where, um We were getting that from the early church, so

Glory to God.

Really good.

I like being on the, the list with one of my favorite saints-

Yes

of all time, Francis de Sales.

Yeah.

There we go, yeah.

Basically kindred spirits right there, so Good stuff.

Thanks for having me on.

Excellent, yeah.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, for sure.

All right.

So first things first, can you introduce yourself and explain where people can find you?

Yes, my name is Dom, Dalmasso.

Um, you can find me on YouTube.

Uh, the Logos Project is the name of the channel.

Uh, Logos, L-O-G-O-S. And, um, the channel revolves around the theology of Pope Benedict mostly.

Other people too, but, uh, he's kinda the main inspiration, so

Beautiful.

What's a book that you've found personally life-changing?

Well, it's gonna be by Benedict.

I was hoping it would be.

Yeah.

Um, i- it's a very nerdy book.

It's, uh, probably his most dense book.

Which is saying something for Pope Benedict.

Yeah, it is.

Yeah.

It's, uh, called Eschatology: Death and Eternal Life.

Um, it would take too long to explain why it changed my life, but, um

It's not the end of the world.

Yeah.

Uh, I mean, uh, I was reading a lot of N.T. Wright, uh, years ago and, uh-

Yeah

I love N.T. Wright still, but he kinda created a crisis in my way of understanding how, uh, how Catholic tradition works with, uh, Greek influence on, on the-

Mm-hmm

Bible and on the Church Fathers.

And Benedict really helped me in that book basically come to terms with that and understand it better.

So I, I used to be very anti-Plato, and thanks-

Ah

to, thanks to Benedict, I actually developed a love for Plato.

But he talks about so many different things, the, the soul, uh, communion, the Trinity, life and death, and it was just like an experience of a read.

And so, it's so prayerful-

Beautiful

and, uh, poetic, and I don't think I've ever come to a book that's risen to that level yet, so

Yeah, I personally have found his Regensburg Address to be one of the best defenses of the harmonious encounter between Christianity and, and Greek thinking.

Yes.

You know?

Yes.

With like And, and it's perfect, of course, for the Logos Project-

Yeah

where you take this term from Greek philosophy and it's brought into scripture in an inspired way.

Exactly, yeah.

No, that, that address I've read several times, and every time I read it, there's something new that comes out of it.

It's such a, a masterful address and it's, it's very personal.

He's just addressing the university based on his life as a student.

And so all his theology is like that.

It comes from his personal life.

Yeah.

So it's never like this cold-

Right

science.

It's always a personal science, and that's always drawn me to him.

Yeah, it is.

You're, you're right.

The, it is, on the one hand, it's very deep and sometimes even very dense.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's always still extremely personal.

The, he's never lost sight of his own standing as a, as a person before their Creator.

Yeah.

Well, would you say that people who like the Regensburg Address are likely to also enjoy Eschatology?

Are they similar enough stylistically that-

Yeah.

Actually, I think that a good summary of big chunks of Eschatology would be his encyclical Spe Salvi.

Wonderful.

Yeah.

That's great.

Okay.

So I would say go read Spe Salvi.

It's, uh, it's more accessible.

Eschatology is dense.

Yeah.

Uh, I struggled through it in several areas, but if you're up for it, it's rewarding.

It's definitely changed my life.

I like that you've given people kind of an easy mode and a hard mode-

Yeah

and even easy mode's a little bit hard.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, absolutely.

Excellent.

But he's just such a wonderful man.

I think he's a saint, and, uh, it's not just me saying this, but I think he'll be a doctor of the church.

Um, you know, I might be biased, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong, you know?

There you go.

So..

I've heard many people say the same thing.

Yeah.

His writings are beautiful and they're meditative, they're spiritual, and they're very intelligent.

Yes.

And so I, I just, um, he ins- that's the motivation behind so many of the videos at the Logos Project.

Yeah.

Beautiful.

Thank you so much.

That's a-

Yeah.

You're welcome

wonderful recommendation.

You're welcome.

All right.

All right.

First things first, can you introduce yourself and where we can find you?

Yes.

So I'm Amber Rose, the Religious Hippie, and you guys can find me basically on any social media platform, except for TikTok, by @thereligioushippie.

And you've already been, uh, preceded by your husband, who mentioned he's kinda behind the scenes-

Yeah

at Religious Hippie.

So if people wanna make that connection and say, Oh, okay, I think we just heard about that channel a minute ago.

Yes, yes.

He, uh, he does all my lighting and all my editing, and well, not editing, but he does all the crazy camera stuff too.

Excellent.

Well, what is a book you would recommend, particularly, you know, people who might be, end of the year, or end of the summer, they're, they're gonna have a little beach read or lake read or something, and a book that you found personally life-changing?

Yeah.

The one that I've carried with me for the last five years is actually The Imitation of Christ.

Oh, by Thomas à Kempis?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

And I, I just have always loved that book because I felt like I was always and this is just a personal opinion of mine, I had always been very soft on myself.

I always gave myself excuses for sin.

I always gave myself like, Oh, God will forgive me.

Oh, this, oh, that.

And this book really put into perspective how horrible that mindset really can be and how much we hurt God during uh, when, when we sin.

And so for me, this book really put into perspective, uh, just how much we really do need to get sin under control and i- and we do need to, uh, basically just get our flesh under control in general.

Yeah.

And that book just calls me out so much, it's crazy.

I've I read somewhere that it was the second most copied, I think second most printed book after the Bible in the middle- in the medieval period.

I think I heard that too.

Like, it was just, like, this tremendously influential book of You know, and it's written at a level that is pretty accessible, you know?

Mm-hmm.

It's a very popular book, and it's, yeah, a very challenging book as well.

Yeah, it just challenges you spiritually, and that was something that I didn't have previously.

Everyone always kind of just, like, was like, Oh, well, you're just human.

Ah.

Oh, it's just human.

Like, You mess up.

But nobody was ever telling me, like, Yeah, okay.

It's o- it's okay to mess up, but you have to make amends and not want to do that again.

Right.

You can't just presume God's forgiveness.

And that book really put that into perspective for me.

The, the difference between striving for greatness and falling short and not really striving for greatness at all.

Yes, exactly.

And it was so crazy because I found out that Thomas à Kempis wasn't canonized yet-

Yes

because he was buried alive.

Yeah.

This is a really dark story, but they, they buried him, and occasionally in, in this period, you know, people made their best guess as to whether someone was dead, and if, you know, the vital signs are very, very faint or seemingly non-existent heartbeat, you don't feel any breathing.

But when they went to move his body, they found claw marks on the inside of the coffin.

Yeah.

And so they weren't sure if he'd despaired or not, and so he was never canonized, but he, he has tremendously valuable spiritual And it is, it is really a tragedy that this final mysterious battle that he faced, uh-

It's just unknown

should cloud his legacy in that way-

Yeah, no

because it is incredibly influential.

He's fantastic.

He's helped me so much spiritually, and I think that in itself kind of It's calls to his holiness and things of that nature.

Of course, we can't say for sure either way, but we also don't condemn anyone to Hell, so we can also just be like, Oh, well maybe we'll ask for his intercession and see if he maybe gets canonized one day.

We'll see.

There you go.

We'll see.

He seems like the kinda person a cause could be opened for.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

That's what I'm thinking.

Hey, you never know.

Excellent.

Well, thank you so much.

Yeah.

I appreciate that.

Thank you, Joe.

I'll talk to you later.

All right.

All right.

Well, first thing's first, could you introduce yourself and say where we can find you?

Yes.

My name is Adrian, and I run the channel Sips with Sarah on YouTube, and you can also find me @sipswithsarah on X, Instagram, TikTok, sipswithsarah.com, all that good stuff.

Wonderful.

And, you know, end of the summer, people might be looking for a good read.

What's a book that has changed your life?

Man.

Um, so this book actually came out a long time ago, but I think a lotta people are picking it up again, Atomic Habits.

Not a theological book, but it d- it has actually helped me in some, uh, spiritual aspects as well.

So I can tell, tell a little bit about the book.

Please, please do.

So it's, it's basically about how to form good habits and get rid of bad habits.

So it's very practical.

You might not think of it as in a spiritual sense, uh, but what it helped me do was be more disciplined.

Yes.

At the time I was in college and I was, like, ru- I was terrible with managing time.

Mm-hmm.

So it was, um, it was it basically gave very practical tips.

So some of the tips it gave were like, um, make the things that you want to do more of that are better for you easier to do.

So if you're like, I don't read enough, well, have your book, like, out on your table-

Right

open to the last page you read or something like that, so that it's super easy for you to just see it, remember to read, and, like, pick it up and, and sit down.

Whereas things that are less healthy habits, make those harder.

So if you play video games too much, which I did at the time, take your PlayStation, unplug it, put it in the closet, and when you wanna play it, plug it back in.

When you're done, unplug it, and put it back in the closet.

Yeah.

So make those make their more steps to things like that.

Um, and then it also just taught me the value of doing small things and not worrying about making the maximum amount of progress in one sitting with something.

Like, i- if you wanna be somebody who reads a lot, for example, we're talking about books, maybe just read, like, a couple pages every day.

Yeah.

And you don't have to worry about, Well, I only read a couple pages.

Uh, I didn't read four chapters today, so I'm a failure.

No, like, uh, you're making progress, and that's way better than reading four chapters one day and then not reading for three weeks, which is most likely-

Yes

what happens if you try to, like, over, um what, whatever you call it.

You know, overcompensate in, in one sitting for lack of progress.

Going from sedentary to marathon runner isn't the way.

Like, uh, you-

Yeah

you go from sedentary to doing a little bit of walking-

Right

and then maybe a little bit of jogging, a little bit of running.

Yeah.

So that's how I've, um that's helped me a lot in spirituality.

Um, some of the same principles apply.

Like, people are like, H- what, what should I do for my prayer life?

And, you know, some people think that you're not praying right unless you're praying for, like, two hours every day.

I wake up at 4:00 AM before the sun rises so that I could pray with the sunrise for like three hours, and then Like, you don't have to do that.

And, and if you set that as your standard, you're going to fail .

because any- anybody's going to fail that if you're not a monk.

And then you're going to be discouraged and you're just not going to do it at all.

So it's better to just pray.

I've told people, If you wanna start praying the rosary, but you're like, That's kind of a big time commitment, which it's really not, but I understand like some people might feel that way, just pray a decade.

Yeah.

It's what, like three minutes?

Yeah.

Four or five minutes?

Just pray a decade every day.

Like that's great.

Yeah, baby steps.

Yeah.

Anything worth doing is worth doing badly.

Chesterton said that.

Yeah.

And you know, there's a real sense in which we see the ideal as unreachable so we don't bother trying.

And I think this is a great And I might even pair your suggestion, if you don't mind, with, uh, the books The Power of Habit and a book called Deep Work.

Those three are kind of a trifecta where it just is really like, okay, you wanna live a m- more virtuous life?

You wanna have better habits?

Here are really practical ways.

And you're right that they're not like, they're not explicitly religious books because plenty of nonreligious people also want better habits in their life.

Yeah.

But they certainly matter if you're someone striving to live a life of virtue rather than a life of vice.

Or someone just trying to say, you know, you've got these great goals for yourself and maybe you look back over your summer and you say, I was gonna read 10 books and I've read half of one.

What are some ways I can change that moving forward?

I like that.

That's a, that's a really good one.

Yeah.

And it's, I think there's something very encouraging about the power and the efficacy of those baby steps.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then, um, I was reminded of this recently because a friend of mine, uh, Franco.

I hope he won't, he won't mind me saying that.

It'll make him look good, don't worry.

He, uh, he was telling me that he was going to Adoration more often and it was really good for him.

Yeah.

And I was like, yeah.

Like I- I love going to Adoration, but I just can't, you know, commit to sitting there for- for like an hour or something like that.

And he's like, Why do you have to go for an hour?

Just go for five minutes if that's all it is.

Yes.

Exactly.

Like five minutes of adoration is better than no adoration.

Right.

So go for whatever amount of time you're willing to commit and then just leave.

Like at least-

And- and once you're committed to five minutes and once it becomes really part of your habit and it's no longer a struggle to do five minutes-

Mm-hmm

10 doesn't feel like that much.

Yep.

And then you can kind of grow from there.

But if you start with going from nothing to an hour and you feel like you failed during the hour, then you might give up and- and that's worse.

Right.

Yeah.

Definitely.

Wonderful.

Thank you so much.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Yeah.

So first things first.

Can you introduce yourself and say where we can find you?

Sure thing.

So my name is Vanessa Forsblad.

For now.

Also For now.

Um, in a few months I'll be Vanessa Parrish.

Um, I'm That One Catholic Girl, but I also do social media for you, Joe Heshmeyer-

Mm-hmm

Shameless Potpourri, and also for the Council of Trent.

If anyone's ever been part of the YouTube live streams and they've done Q&A and, you know, they've put in a Super Chat.

And you wonder how did Joe find all those Super Chats without scrolling through the chat?

It's, you're the one doing behind the scenes work.

That's me.

So into summer, a lot of people are gonna be going to the beach or the lake.

They might be looking for a good summer read.

Mm-hmm.

What would you recommend as a book that has changed your life?

So I was thinking about all of my favorite books, and so I had to single it down to one.

And it's one that changed my life and it's Why We're Catholic by Trent Horn.

Wonderful.

And I was like, do I bring this up to Joe?

Because I'm like- I do stuff for Joe and I do stuff for Trent, but-

I love Trent

I know you ha- well, m- me too.

But um, Why We're Catholic really changed my life.

I found my first copy of Why We're Catholic at the thrift store, and I fell in love with it.

It's probably the first book I read cover to cover.

And after I found that book, I set out to find every copy of Why We're Catholic so I could give it to everyone I knew.

And I started collect- And honestly, I would find a lot of copies of it, which I don't know if that's a good thing to say- that I would find a lot of them at the thrift store.

And I would collect them so I could give them to people.

And I just started, um, collecting them and not giving them to people.

So I have probably upwards of like 20 copies.

You're a very specific type of hoarder.

Yeah.

So what- what is it, for those who maybe aren't familiar with the book, what is it about the book that is so life changing and so, yeah, impactful, I guess we'll say?

So I'm a cradle Catholic, but I don't think I really understood the beauty of our faith until I got into like my late teen years.

And that book explains the faith in a way that I never truly understood.

And I found this through like various authors and various people in the faith where I Parts of the faith resonated with me through various speakers.

Like for example, like Pope Benedict XVI explains the faith in a way that I understand that other people I don't understand.

And for some reason, the way Trent explains the faith just resonates with me.

And so when I read that book, I just, I understood the faith in a way that I never understood it before.

And so I always felt like that book would also have that impact on other people.

Yeah.

So that's why it's just so close to my heart.

And I- I would be remiss if I didn't mention, for people who want to get bulk copies of this book, you don't actually have to go to all of the thrift stores in Las Vegas.

No.

You can also go to shop.catholic.com.

Yes.

And for pretty cheap, you can get like a set of 20, I think.

Yeah.

And- and give them out to friends and loved ones who might also be looking for a- a book on why they're Catholic or why they should be Catholic.

Yeah.

Wonderful.

Thank you so much, Vanessa.

Thank you so much, Joe.

All right.

So first things first.

Can you introduce yourself and tell people where they can find you?

Yeah.

My name is Javier.

Uh, you can call me Javi.

Uh, my channel on YouTube is Just A Catholic and I do a lot of, uh, n- nice content there where I'm sort of elucidating things and trying to, uh, just be- be a representative of the Catholic faith and, uh, sort of like share and work alongside my formal education, which I'm trying to get through right now.

Wonderful.

So what's a book that you've found that's just been life changing that maybe people should pick up a copy of?

Okay.

So I'm gonna So I'm going to go off the-

Oh, yeah, that's right.

You told me you were gonna cheat on this one.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna cheat.

So I'm not going to give you a book that you should read.

What I'm gonna do is I'm going to perhaps give you a way of how you should read some of those life-changing books.

Great.

I've never I can't really say that I've ever watched or read or seen anything, uh, you know, just like, oh, a single object in its totality which really gave me anys- anything life changing.

It's interesting, most of the life-changing moments that I have are in a single phrase, a single sentence, maybe a paragraph.

One thing that I see or hear that changes my life in the sense that it strings together all of these things, all these pieces which the Holy Spirit has led me to and led me through.

It puts it all together.

What I'm gonna give is a letter.

It's not, uh, not a book, but a letter, a personal letter that was written to me.

It was, um, at the end of my first year of high school.

This class where there was a bunch of upper, upperclassmen.

I had this one person in there that I also had in orchestra, and she was, she just seemed to be such a joyful person, so kind and r- smart, just someone that I really looked up to.

She This person was a role model to me.

And at the end of the year, she gives me the letter.

And the letter was talking about what she appreciated about me, also giving me criticism, the way I was, the way I acted, how I carried myself in a way that was arrogance and that was, um, sort of lording u- over others, and how I should perhaps maybe think about that and reflect on that so as to become a better person and to, uh, be more palatable to other people, 'cause I really wasn't arrogant .

I was a bad person at that time, to be completely honest.

And th-

You were a 14-year-old?

Th- I mean

I was, I was something, but I, I, I don't r- I don't know what I was-

Okay

but I was a, I was a bad-

Okay

little k- I was a bad child.

And, um, that letter, I think, just changed my life 'cause I respected this person.

I had that charity with her, with her.

Sh- that was a fraternal correction that I was given.

Yeah.

And it really, it really helped me to realize, the way I act towards other people is under scrutiny-

Mm-hmm

and that I can't just, I can't just not care about other people, not care what they think about me.

That letter, it helped me to want to reform myself and to be cognizant of the way I act towards others and the way that I understand my relation to other people.

And I think that that was what really sent me down the path of my conversion-

Wow

because it opened me up to consideration of morality and how to be a good person.

For everyone who's looking to books, the things that they wanna read, perhaps not look to any one book to change your life.

Maybe n- 'Cause it That book that you read probably isn't gonna be the one.

It isn't gonna be the one that gives you the answers because I've struggled with this constantly.

Mm-hmm.

In my, uh, vocational discernment, these feelings that I'm balancing and I just wanna find the answer.

I wanna read something, perhaps that'll give me the answer.

And, and oftentimes no individual book is going to give you the answer.

And, and if I may add to that, the thing that was life-changing for one person may not be life-changing for another, which I think is an important kind of caveat, frankly, to this whole episode and, and the whole idea.

You can often find great benefit from what somebody else benefited from, but there's always something so personal about it.

You know that letter was addressed to you.

Mm-hmm.

And there are things in your life that are meant for you and they may not have the You know, you couldn't just hand that letter to someone else-

Yeah

and expect it to change their life.

And so recognizing God can put things in your life for you, and you can't just generate that for yourself.

Perhaps I don't get it now.

I'm not entirely sure where this is going now, but to appreciate all the times that you hear that little voice speaking to you.

Yeah.

And one day, perhaps, it'll all click.

Uh, you know what?

You were cheating, but that was still pretty encouraging.

Yes.

Thanks a lot.

I appreciate that.

Yeah.

No, appreciate it.

Thank you so much for inviting me.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

All right.

Well, first things first, could you introduce yourself and actually maybe share your connection to this channel for those who don't know?

Sure, okay.

Uh, I'm Michael Caprice.

I am a, was a full-time YouTuber, but also do editing support, things like that for Shameless Popery.

Thumbnails, titles, all that stuff, so yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

A lot of the visual aesthetic, you're, you're the brains behind all that.

My choice for a book that changed my life was, um, Mother Angelica's biography.

So if you remember, when I first applied-

Mm-hmm

to, to Catholic Answers to be yours and, and, uh, Trent's editor, and that interview was awesome.

And then Trent's, like, stone-cold face bothers me to this day 'cause I could 'cause I don't like- not being able to read people so much.

He has a great job interview stoic face where he's not gonna give you any clues.

He, he-

It is terrifying, yeah.

He would run the table in poker.

Um, but I, I wound up not getting the gig, but I did get a, uh, an email from John Sorenson saying like, Hey, let's, like, let's stay in touch, 'cause, I mean, he, he really liked me, so that, that made me feel good.

But I was also, like, profoundly disappointed, and I had just gotten done b- uh, in between the interview and, uh, getting the rejection email, reading Mother Angelica's book because-

Is this the one by Raymond Arroyo?

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

I, I had just gotten done reading that, and what struck me the most was this absolute abandon to faith.

Um, many people don't realize while she was alive, EWTN never had a budget.

Yeah.

Like, she was told by God to do something that we would say is insane, crazy.

Yeah.

Impossible, even.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like, Oh, let's, we're, we're gonna have a, a TV dish show up.

You know?

And, and they don't have the money to pay for things, and magic, magically, in quotes, but through the Lord.

Yeah, miraculously, really.

The, yeah, the, the money shows up to pay for the things that the Lord wants her to do.

And always seemingly, like, in the 11th hour.

Like right when everybody else around her is ready to say, We're, we're toast, we're doomed.

Yeah.

We're cooked.

Yeah.

And, and, like, you wanna talk about a test of faith, an actual abandon to it.

She, she did not ever, um, worry.

She never doubted.

She asked really hard.

Probably sweated a bit.

But, um, that was such a shining example to me of how, how you should live your Christian life, but especially as a creator.

Having been a creator for as long as I was, I, I was afraid to let go of what I had been doing for years because I was afraid it was all going to go away from me.

And it was another reminder that it's not mine.

If the Lord wants me to have it, He'll give it to me.

And that's-

And, and then he did.

But, and I have never been this fulfilled in my entire life.

And I, and I, I was a literal dream chaser, and I've never been this fulfilled.

I am thrilled to hear it.

I didn't ask you to say that on camera.

But, uh, next time, if you wanna raise, I'm just gonna be like, Well, we'll just play this clip.

Be like, Well, Mike, you're already as fulfilled.

Like we, how can we possibly improve on that?

But in all seriousness, I, I think that's tremendous.

That, I remember that book was tremendously influential in my own life.

And I don't even remember wh- why I picked it up 'cause I, I sort of knew who Mother Angelica was when I got it.

I mean, this was years and years ago.

And for some reason, I just felt it was important to get it.

I remember, I, it was at the, uh, the Paulists, Pauline bookstore in Alexandria, Virginia.

Happened to see it there, picked it up, and was riveted by it.

And it's very well-written, and the stories are just incredible.

Oh, yeah.

I got, I got the, I did get the audiobook version.

So, like, Raymond Arroyo does, like, all of these voices of lady nuns that's little Takes you out of the moment for a bit.

So, fair warning to anyone who gets the audiobook.

But yeah, it was, it was amazing.

It's an easy read too.

I mean, you, you won't be too daunted getting it in, you know, hardback.

Oh, yeah.

No.

Excellent.

Well, thank you so much.

I appreciate that.

Absolute honor.

Yeah.

All right.

So, first things first, can you introduce yourself and say where people can find you?

Yeah.

Uh, my name's Sam Rhoden.

Uh, I run the channel MasterSamwise on YouTube.

Uh, I have a Twitter account, technically.

Um, uh, but they pretty much find me on YouTube making videos about stories that I find interesting.

Sometimes stories that I find are told poorly and how you could tell them better.

Um, but mostly focusing on stories and the characters and themes within them specifically that move us in various ways.

I, I was struck.

I, so for those who weren't able to make it to the Catholic Creators Conference, you gave a beautiful talk yesterday on the power of story.

And it's a good reminder.

I mean, like, our Lord does so much of his teaching through stories.

Mm-hmm.

And it's just this incredible way of reaching people.

Yeah.

So, you seem like the obvious person to kind of be the pinnacle of the question of, like, what should people be, what should be on the summer reading list and what was personally, like, life-changing for you?

Uh, how many people have already said Lord of the Rings?

No one.

No?

Okay.

Well, then I'll say The Lord of the Rings.

The name, the channel name MasterSamwise-

I was wondering

is obviously the premier example.

Um, uh, so I first encountered Lord of the Rings, my parents had us listen to the audiobooks when I was, I think, starting at seven, eight years old.

And that was right when the movies were coming out.

Yeah.

Right?

So, I think I actually watched the first movie before we finished the first book.

And then we proceeded to listen to the rest of the, the trilogy before, uh, The Two Towers came out on, uh, in theaters.

And I, I can't say they changed my life then.

I think they really started to take hold on me.

And I always liked them.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but the books really started to take hold on me when in college, when I had the opportunity to take a seminar.

So a small, you know, small class-

Yeah

12 or so students, where we read the, um, The Lord of the Rings and we discussed it.

And, you know, ever since then, I've really loved it.

Read it, you know, several more times.

And now I have a YouTube channel where, you know, that is one of the main stories that I focus on.

If I may jut in with a shout-out to book club.

Because most people don't, can't do seminars now.

Yeah.

Of just saying like, How do I get a group of people?

But if you have, like, a few friends, particularly in person, where you can just say, Okay, we're gonna go through this book.

And we're basically the same reading pace, and we'll get together every now and then and, you know, maybe have some wine and cheese- and talk about the book.

It's such a deeper way of appreciating the stories sometimes-

Oh, yeah

than, than just reading it in isolation.

And Lord of the Rings needs that.

So, people will say, Oh, I, you know, I know Lord of the Rings.

I, I, yeah, I even read the books.

No, you don't.

I don't.

I think I do, but I, I know I don't.

Uh, I mean, um, Thomas Graff just ambushed me with, you know, Here are the 10 quotes, Lord of the Rings versus Bible.

I think I got four or five right.

I was like, I was like, Oh my goodness, I don't, don't know either of these books as well as I should, clearly.

I was similarly embarrassed, but on the Bible side, yeah.

Um, and so it's, it's one of those things where, like, this is not just a novel.

Yeah.

It, this is the product of decades of work by a man who was, like, thoroughly devoted to, like, the love of language and the power of it.

And it co- and just the power of song in particular, which comes through very clearly in Lord of the Rings.

And you see, like, the depths of Tolkien's world-building in instances such as where there's one scene where Legolas hears the cry of the gulls, seagulls.

And he, in that moment, like, finds a longing in his heart for, for his homeland, for Valinor, which had never been there before.

And, like, he hears that and he's like, I can, I know I need to go there now.

Like, this will not go away.

Right?

And because the, the cry of the birds is a form of music-

Yeah

right?

And music is how this world is created in Tolkien's myth.

Yes.

And that's so cool.

'Cause, I mean, 'cause music has this transcendental, you know, power in our world, even.

Right?

And so, Tolkien just takes that to a whole other level.

Says, like, This is how the world was created, is through, like, discordant music that, you know, Melkor tried to ruin things, essentially.

And, um, and how, like, even it, how it s- how it, uh, manifests in nature, right?

Through the seagulls.

Um, it has this in- incredible power over, over our hearts.

Um, the Wailing of the Nazgul is b- is, uh, described as, like, kind of a dissonant high, you know, an unearthly high note.

Yeah.

Right?

Um, so, I, I, all those little things, where if you read Lord of the Rings, you're like, Oh.

Oh, oh!

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's well said.

It's so good.

Okay, well, you've, I think you've sort of given an answer to this already, but I know some people will just say, I don't really do fiction.

Mm-hmm.

Can you make a case for why it's not a waste of time to read and enjoy fictional works?

So, my best answer is you just should read On Fairy Stories by JRR Tolkien.

'Cause he'll probably give a better case than I, than I ever could.

Um, but essentially, I was just talking about this with another conference attendee.

We were talking about the movie Terminator 2.

Okay.

And how the, the Terminator, or the T-800, Arnold Schwarzenegger's character embodies a- a great number of virtues.

And the argument would be, against that, would be, well, he's a machine.

He's just programmed that way.

Like, okay.

Well, any fictional character is just written that way, right?

He still embodies those virtues, right?

So, and you see characters in Lord, in Lord of the Rings, or any fictional story, and, you know, you look up to them.

We look up to Aragorn.

We look up to Luke Skywalker, or whoever, because of their courage, their perseverance, their hopefulness, et cetera.

And like, okay, why do I care?

He's not real.

He didn't have to do this.

But their virtue is real.

Yeah.

Right?

So

Yeah.

Um, I think, I think Peter Kreeft puts it very well.

I think that's where I first really heard about the, hi- him, heard, heard about someone talking about this.

Um, I'm not a philosophy student by any means.

Uh, so Peter creates the philosophy of, uh, of Lord of the Rings, or the philosophy of Tolkien.

I forget the n- the title.

Um, and he talks about how, you know, Platonic ideals shown in story, right?

That's why, like, they are You know, that's what makes them real to us.

Right?

So, like, that courage still exists.

Right?

We can still want to embody that courage.

And it is very likely that the courage or the perseverance or just the selfless love that is shown in novels or in movies or video games, for crying out loud, can be, like, a higher height of virtue than we can see in our own world.

Yeah.

The, the fact that they're fictional means that you don't have to say, Ah, but they, they're still fallen.

And yes, I like this thing, but this other thing.

It can, it can be a sort of uncomplicated relationship.

Right.

Where they can just be heroes or just be villains.

Yeah.

I Virtue is virtue.

I, I, I, I don't, I don't really care if it's fiction or non-fiction.

Right.

Right?

It gives an example.

Or it provides a cautionary tale.

Yeah.

No- nobody hopefully listens to the parables of Jesus and says, Oh, I don't think that really happened.

Yeah.

I don't think a man really had a prodigal son.

Right?

I don't- That's probably a much better a- uh, counterpoint to, Well, it's fiction, doesn't matter.

Is all our Lord taught in fiction.

So

Right.

He uses fictional stories-

Yeah

to, to tell true things.

Yeah.

As you say.

Beautifully put.

Yeah.

Well, thank you very much.

This was-

Of course.

Yeah

this was tremendous.

Thank you for inviting me on, Joe.

I appreciate it.

Absolutely.

Thank you again to everyone who participated in this.

Thank you to the people who put on the Catholic Creators Conference.

Kyle and Drew did a tremendous job.

Uh, Brooks has been doing everything behind the scenes.

I asked him, kind of last minute to, uh, run the cameras to do this episode we just experienced.

And hopefully it gives you something to read.

Maybe something to meditate or pray on.

Or maybe a, a new appreciation for the things you're already planning on reading this summer, or as you move forward.

For Shameless Potpourri, I'm Joe Heschmeyer.

God bless you.