Transcript
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Welcome back to Shameless Potpourri.
欢迎再次回到『Shameless Potpourri』。
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I'm Joe Heschmeyer.
我是Joe Heschmeyer。
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And one of the most contentious topics right now is this question of whether we should support Israel in its ongoing fight against Hamas and now against Iran.
现在最具争议的话题之一就是,我们是否应该支持以色列继续和哈马斯作战,以及现在对抗伊朗。
11.18-14.54
And there are people who I respect who answer both sides of that question.
我尊敬的人里,既有人赞成,也有人反对。
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But I wanna look at one particular argument that is sometimes made.
但我想看看人们常提出的一个特别的论点。
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It was made recently by Senator Ted Cruz in his Tucker Carlson interview.
最近,参议员Ted Cruz在接受Tucker Carlson采访时就提出了这个观点。
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It's this argument that Americans need to support Israel attacking Iran because the Bible says that those who bless Israel will be blessed.
这个论点是说,美国人必须支持以色列攻击伊朗,因为圣经说,「祝福以色列的必蒙福」。
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I wanna first say thank you to everybody supporting this channel over at shamelessjoe.com.
首先,我想感谢所有在shamelessjoe.com支持本频道的朋友。
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It's a beautiful community.
这是一个很棒的社群。
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I love your questions and comments, hearing from people like Madison T who asked me last week about the biblical and historical basis for why we have bishops, priests, and deacons.
我很喜欢你们提出的问题和留言,比如Madison T上周问我:为什么教会会有主教、祭司和执事?这在圣经和历史上有什么根据?
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Sanez who asked about St. John Chrysostom's view of St. Peter, and on and on.
还有Sanez,他问我圣约翰•屈梭多模怎么看待圣彼得,诸如此类的问题。
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I love answering your questions each Monday and each Friday, and I hope that you enjoy having ad-free versions of these episodes.
我喜欢在每周一和周五回答你们的问题,也希望你们喜欢这些无广告的节目版本。
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But now I wanna explore this Ted Cruz clip and then explore whether this theology is biblical or not.
但现在我想先看看Ted Cruz的这段影片,再讨论这种神学是不是合乎圣经。
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I'm talking about the political entity of modern Israel.
我说的是现代以色列这个政治实体。
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Yes, and that is, uh, that is- Do you believe that's what God was talking about in Genesis?
是的,就是……你相信创世记里说的就是它吗?
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Yes, I do.
是的,我相信。
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But, but- That country's existed since when?
但是,但是——那个国家从什么时候开始存在?
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Uh, for thousands of years.
呃,几千年前就有。
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Now, there was a time when it didn't exist and then it was recreated.
当然,中间有一段时间它不存在,然后又被重新建立。
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So the passage that Ted Cruz is trying to remember is, in fact, from Genesis.
所以Ted Cruz想引用的经文确实出自《创世记》。
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More particularly, it's Genesis 12:1-3, in which God makes a couple of very important covenantal promises.
更具体地说,是创12:1-3,那里神给了亚伯拉罕几个非常重要的约的应许。
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First, he tells Abraham, I will make of you a great nation.
首先,他对亚伯拉罕说:「我必叫你成为大国」。
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And then he says, I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse.
接着又说:「为你祝福的,我必赐福与他,咒诅你的,我必咒诅他」。
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And by you, all the families of the Earth shall bless themselves.
「地上的万族都要因你得福」。
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Now, this is the beginning of what is known as the Abrahamic covenant, and it contains promises both to Abraham personally and to the great nation formed by his descendants.
这段经文是所谓亚伯拉罕之约的开端,里面既有对亚伯拉罕个人的应许,也有对由他后裔组成的大国的应许。
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Well, for many evangelicals, particularly, as I say, coming from a dispensationalist theology, that great nation is obviously Israel.
对许多福音派基督徒——尤其是持时代论神学的人——那个「大国」显然就是以色列。
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Not just the ancient kingdom of Israel formed by God, but also the modern state of Israel formed by the United Nations.
不只是神建立的古代以色列王国,还包括由联合国划定建立的现代以色列国。
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And it's that view that Ted Cruz is articulating here, and it's a rather common one in the evangelical world.
Ted Cruz在这里表达的就是这种看法,而在福音派圈子里这是相当常见的。
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I would suggest this is why people misremember that passage in Genesis 12 as saying those who bless Israel, even though Israel didn't exist in Genesis 12.
我想,这就是为什么有人把创世记12章那段话记错,以为经文说「祝福以色列的」,可是在创世记12章里,以色列还不存在。
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For instance, in the aftermath of the October 7th attacks, the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission put together an evangelical statement in support of Israel, announcing their support for Israel and also declaring that Israel had both the right and the duty to defend itself against further attacks.
举例来说,10月7日袭击发生后,南方浸信会伦理与宗教自由委员会起草了一份支持以色列的福音派声明,表示他们支持以色列,并宣称以色列既有权利也有义务抵御进一步的袭击。
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And the only biblical citation offered anywhere in the document was the SBC applying Genesis 12:1-3 to the modern state of Israel.
那份文件里唯一引用的经文,就是南方浸信会把创12:1-3套用到现代以色列国身上。
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And look, on the surface, that reading makes complete sense.
乍看之下,这样的解读完全说得过去。
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God is making a promise about a great nation formed by Abraham's descendants and the modern Israelis are Abraham's descendants according to the flesh.
神在这里应许亚伯拉罕后裔所组成的一个大国,而现代以色列人按血统来说确实是亚伯拉罕的后裔。
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But that reading of Genesis 12 is pretty explicitly rejected throughout the New Testament.
但这种对创世记12章的解读在新约里被明确地否定了。
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Most strikingly, St. Paul argues that it is instead men of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
最明显的是,使徒保罗指出,真正的亚伯拉罕子孙是有信心的人。
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And to prove his point, Paul cites to this very same passage from Genesis 12 to show that instead it is those who are men of faith who are blessed with Abraham who had faith.
为了证明这一点,保罗引用的正是创世记12章这段经文,表明蒙福的不是别人,而是那些像亚伯拉罕一样有信心的人。
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So, how do St. Paul and the Southern Baptist Convention manage to interpret the same passage of scripture in opposite ways?
那么,使徒保罗和南方浸信会怎么会把同一段经文解释得截然相反呢?
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One to say it's about the faithful, including faithful Gentiles, and the other to say it's about Israelis and ethnic Jews.
前者说这段经文指的是有信心的人,包括有信心的外邦人;后者则说它指的是以色列人和血统上的犹太人。
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Well, the whole dispute turns on a simple question.
其实,整场争论归结到一个简单的问题。
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How do future generations inherit the Genesis 12 promises that God is making to Abraham?
后来世世代代是如何继承神在创世记12章向亚伯拉罕所作的应许呢?
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Who are the sons of Abraham that God is making promises about?
「神所应许的亚伯拉罕的子孙到底指谁?」
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In Romans 9, St. Paul answers that directly.
在罗马书第9章,使徒保罗直接回答了这个问题。
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He says that not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his descendants.
他说,并不是凡从以色列生的都属于以色列,也不是亚伯拉罕的后裔就都是亚伯拉罕的儿女。
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And to prove this, he points to two examples from Genesis.
为证明这一点,他举了创世记里的两个例子。
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First, that God's covenant continued on through Isaac, not through his older brother Ishmael.
首先,神的约是借着以撒延续下去的,而不是借着他哥哥以实玛利。
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And then from Isaac, the covenant passes to Isaac's younger son Jacob, who becomes Israel, after Jacob's older brother Esau, the father of the Edomites, repudiated his birthright.
其次,从以撒那里,约又传给了以撒的小儿子雅各——雅各后来被称为以色列——因为雅各的哥哥以扫(以东人的祖先)轻看了长子的名分。
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Now, Paul's point is really simple.
保罗的论点其实很简单。
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If God's covenant with Abraham was inherited according to the flesh, you know, the way that property is divided up when a parent dies, for instance, then the covenant would have gone to the firstborn.
如果神与亚伯拉罕所立的约是按血统继承的,就像父母去世后遗产按长子次序分配一样,那这份约就该归给长子。
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So then the Ishmaelites, not Isaac, would be God's covenant people, not the Israelites.
那样的话,神的约民就应当是以实玛利人,而不是以撒,也就不是以色列人。
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Or, a generation later, it would have been the Edomites and not the Israelites were the covenant chosen people.
再下一代,按同样逻辑,神拣选的约民就应该是以东人,而不是以色列人。
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So it is completely self-refuting for a Jewish person to say, We should understand the promises of Genesis 12 according to the flesh, since that would mean we should side with their Ishmaelite or Edomite neighbors and not with the Israelis.
所以,如果有犹太人说我们应当按血统来理解创世记12章的应许,这话本身就站不住脚,因为那样就意味着我们要站在他们的以实玛利人或以东人邻居那边,而不是站在以色列人这边。
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So what is the alternative view if it's not according to the flesh?
那么,如果不是按血统,还有什么其他的理解方式呢?
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Well, then it's all about faith and the promises of God.
答案就是,一切都取决于信心和神的应许。
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As St. Paul explains, It is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are reckoned as descendants.
正如保罗所说:「肉身所生的儿女不是神的儿女,惟独那应许的儿女才算是后裔。」
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And he calls Abraham the father of all who believe, Jewish or Gentile, and says the covenant applies to those who share the faith of Abraham, for he is the father of us all.
他称亚伯拉罕为所有信的人——无论犹太人还是外邦人——的父,并说这约临到一切拥有亚伯拉罕同样信心的人,因为亚伯拉罕是我们众人的父。
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So to be a son of Abraham, in this sense it matters, is not about your race or your ethnicity.
所以,要成为真正意义上的亚伯拉罕子孙,与种族或民族毫无关系。
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It's about whether or not you hold to the faith of Abraham.
关键在于你有没有亚伯拉罕那样的信心。
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And Paul is not alone in teaching this.
而且,持这种教导的并不只有保罗。
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Well before him, John the Baptist was out there warning his fellow Jews, Do not presume to say to yourselves that Abraham is our father.
施洗约翰早在保罗之前就提醒同胞:「不要自己心里说,有亚伯拉罕为我们的祖宗。」
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For I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham.
「我告诉你们,神能从这些石头中给亚伯拉罕兴起子孙来。」
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And Jesus himself warned his Jewish persecutors, If you were Abraham's children, you would do what Abraham did.
耶稣也警告那些迫害他的犹太人说:「你们若是亚伯拉罕的儿子,就必行亚伯拉罕所行的事。」
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And he says instead, You are of your father the devil and your will is to do your father's desires.
他还说:「你们是出于你们的父魔鬼,你们父的私欲,你们偏要行。」
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So Abraham's sons, biblically, are the ones who keep the faith of Abraham, whether or not they're blood relatives.And it's to us that the promises of Genesis 12 apply, not to whoever happens to be related to Abraham by flesh.
因此,从圣经来看,真正的亚伯拉罕子孙是那些持守亚伯拉罕信心的人,不管他们是不是血缘上的后裔。创世记12章的应许是给我们的,而不是单单给任何恰好与亚伯拉罕有血缘关系的人。
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Now, Paul describes this explicitly in terms of an olive tree in Romans 11.
现在,保罗在罗马书11章用橄榄树来具体说明这一点。
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Those born into the old covenant are what he calls the natural branches.
他称那些生来就在旧约之下的人为「原来的枝子」。
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This is the faith that they grew up with, after all.
毕竟,他们从小就是在这份信仰里长大的。
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But some of those Jews rejected the faith by rejecting the prophesied Jewish messiah, Jesus of Nazareth.
但其中有些犹太人拒绝了这份信仰,因为他们拒绝了那位应许的犹太弥赛亚——拿撒勒人耶稣。
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So Paul talks about them as branches which are now broken off from the tree, and in their stead, faithful gentiles who have heard the gospel have been grafted in.
因此,保罗说他们就像从树上被折下的枝子,而那些听见福音、信从福音的外邦人被接上去,取而代之。
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And Paul holds out hope, even for the Jews who've rejected Christ, saying, If they do not persist in their unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.
对于拒绝基督的犹太人,保罗仍然怀有盼望,他说:「他们若不是长久不信,仍要被接上,因为神能够把他们重新接上。」
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Now, when Paul says that the gentiles and some of these Jews have been grafted in, what is it that they're being grafted into?
那么,当保罗说这些外邦人和部分犹太人被接上时,他们到底被接入到什么里呢?
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Well, as he says in the next verse, they're being grafted into Israel.
他在下一节经文里说明,他们是被接入以色列。
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And he makes this point elsewhere, reminding the gentiles, for instance, how they were once separated from Christ and alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, but have now been brought near in the blood of Christ, forming one people from the Jews and gentiles in Jesus's body, the church.
此外,他在别处也强调这一点,提醒外邦人,他们从前与基督隔绝,与以色列国民无分,如今却在基督的血里得以靠近,借着耶稣的身体——教会——使犹太人和外邦人成为一个子民。
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Now, in the Old Testament, one of the promises of the coming Messiah was that he would assemble the outcasts of Israel and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
在旧约里,弥赛亚的一个应许就是,他要招聚以色列被赶散的人,并从地的四方聚集犹大分散的人。
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And when Jesus comes into the world, that is exactly what he announces that he's doing.
耶稣来到世上时,他正是宣告自己正在做这件事。
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He declares, I have other sheep that are not of this fold.
他宣告说:「我另外有羊,不是这圈里的。」
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I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice.
「我必须领他们来;他们也要听我的声音。」
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So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.
「并且要合成一群,归一个牧人。」
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So the argument here is not that God abandoned Israel or that he abandoned the Jewish people and then formed some new people called the church.
所以,这里并不是说神抛弃了以色列或抛弃了犹太人,然后另外成立一个叫「教会」的新民族。
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It's rather that the promises of God have always been tied to faith, going all the way back to those covenantal promises in Genesis 12.
相反,神的应许从来都与信心相连,追溯到创世记12章那份立约的应许。
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And these were inherited by the Jewish faithful, along with the gentile faithful, who were then gathered into one body by the Jewish Messiah.
这些应许由有信心的犹太人和有信心的外邦人共同承受,然后被犹太弥赛亚聚集在一个身体里。
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But if that's right, then it means that church is the gathered together remnant of Israel assembled into the flock of Christ.
如果这是对的,那就意味着教会就是被聚集起来、组成基督羊群的以色列余民。
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Or to put it in the terms of Saint Paul, it means that the church is the Israel of God.
换保罗的话说,教会就是「神的以色列」。
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But what happens if you get this wrong?
但如果你搞错了,会怎样呢?
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What happens if you think that God's promises to Israel are about an ethnic group instead of a church?
如果你认为神给以色列的应许是指一个种族,而不是指教会,会发生什么呢?
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Well, it's going to screw up a lot more than just your foreign policy.
那可不只是搞乱你的外交政策那么简单。
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It's going to undermine your ability as a Christian even to claim to be part of the new covenant.
它甚至会动摇你作为基督徒自称属于新约的根基。
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That's because the new covenant is formed with the house of Israel.
因为新约是与以色列家所立的。
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We see this explicitly in Jeremiah 31.
在耶利米书31章里,这一点写得很清楚。
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God talks about how the people of Israel have broken the covenant that God made with their fathers, covenants like the one with Abraham.
神说以色列人背弃了他与他们祖先所立的约,那些约就像与亚伯拉罕所立的约一样。
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But rather than abandoning them, God promises instead to make a new covenant with the house of Israel, saying, I will be their god, and they shall be my people.
但神没有丢弃他们,而是应许要与以色列家另立新约,说:「我要作他们的神,他们要作我的子民。」
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But notice both halves of this promise, that there's going to be a new covenant in which God forms his people anew, and this new covenant is with the house of Israel.
请注意,这个应许有两部分:第一,神要借着新约重新塑造他的子民;第二,这个新约是和以色列家所立的。
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Now, Jesus fulfills this at the Last Supper when he institutes the Eucharist.
耶稣在最后的晚餐设立圣餐时成全了这一切。
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He lifts up the chalice and he declares, This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
他举起杯来说:「这是我立约的血,为多人流出来,使罪得赦。」
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In both word and deed, this is a covenantal act.
无论从言语还是行动来看,这都是一次立约的举动。
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The Jewish political scientist Daniel Elazar wrote a four-volume work on the history of covenants, and the first volume is all about the biblical concept of covenant.
犹太政治学者 Daniel Elazar 写了一套四卷本的《约的历史》,第一卷完全讨论圣经中的约概念。
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And Elazar explained that sealing a covenant involves some ritual act, typically a bloody sacrifice, but it could also be things like a common meal.
Elazar 解释说,确认一份约通常要有某种仪式行为,最常见的是流血的祭献,但也可以是共进一餐之类的形式。
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And he recognized that the Eucharist is an example of this.
他指出,圣餐就是其中一个例子。
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And so when Jesus prepares this ritual meal with his disciples that we call the Last Supper, and he inaugurates there a new covenant with them in the blood that he is about to pour out on the cross, that is covenantal formation.
因此,当耶稣和门徒预备这顿我们称为最后的晚餐的礼仪性筵席,并且在他即将流出的血里与他们建立新约时,这就完成了立约。
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And it's one of the reasons that we know that Jesus actually turned the wine into his blood, since as Hebrews 9 points out, even the first covenant needed blood to be ratified.
这也是我们知道耶稣确实把酒变成自己的血的理由之一,因为希9章指出,连第一次的约都必须用血来确立。
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But notice, who's the other party to this new covenant?
但请留意,这份新约的另一方是谁?
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Biblically, we can say both the house of Israel, Jeremiah 31.
从圣经来看,我们可以说这是与「以色列家」立的约,正如耶31所记。
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But also clearly, the church.
但同样很明显,它也是与教会立的。
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This is why, as Saint Paul observes, when we come together to celebrate the Eucharist as Jesus commanded, we do it by assembling as the church.
这就是为什么,正如保罗指出的,当我们照着耶稣的吩咐聚在一起领圣餐时,我们是以教会的身份集合。
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So Christ fulfills his promise to make a new covenant with the house of Israel by making a new covenant with the church and setting his 12 disciples in judgment over the 12 tribes of Israel.
所以,基督通过与教会立新约,并且让他的十二门徒坐在宝座上审判以色列十二支派,成全了他要与以色列家立新约的应许。
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Now, all of that puts dispensationalists into a bit of an awkward position, because if they admit that the new covenant is formed with the church, then they seemingly have to admit that the church is the house of Israel, and thus, that their dispensationalist system separating Israel from the church is false.
这一切让时代论者处于尴尬的境地,因为如果他们承认新约是与教会立的,他们就几乎得承认教会就是以色列家,于是他们把以色列和教会分开的时代论体系就站不住脚。
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But if they deny this, then they have to come up with some inventive kind of explanation to account for the church's relationship to the new covenant itself, and this is how you get dispensationalist theologians, like Dr. Roy Beecham, claiming that Christians don't actually participate in the new covenant in any way.
但如果他们否认这点,他们就得想出某些新奇的说法来解释教会与新约之间的关系,于是就有像 Roy Beecham 博士这样的时代论神学家声称,基督徒其实根本没有以任何方式参与新约。
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The church today participates in some soteriological blessings like are promised to Israel in the new covenant.
他说:「今天的教会分享了新约里应许给以色列的一些救恩祝福,」
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The church, however, has no legal relationship to the new covenant.
「然而,教会和新约在法律上毫无关系,」
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We do not participate in the new covenant in any way.
「我们在任何意义上都没有参与新约。」
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Hopefully, that puts the matter into clear focus.
希望这能让问题更清楚。
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The new covenant is formed with the house of Israel, as Jeremiah 31 says.
新约是与以色列家立的,就像耶31所说的那样。
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This means one of two things.
这意味着只有两种可能。
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If you listen to prophets like Isaiah and Malachi or apostles like Paul, it means that in the new covenant, even foreigners are going to be incorporated into Israel, into the house of God.
如果你听先知以赛亚、玛拉基,或使徒保罗的话,那就意味着在新约里,连外邦人也要被纳入以色列、纳入神的家。
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They'll be offering true sacrifice, so that the house of God is now a house of prayer for all people.
他们要献上真祭,使神的家成为万民祈祷的殿。
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If that view is right, then Genesis 12 is not a legitimate justification for saying Christians must support the nation state of Israel and its military actions.
如果这个观点正确,那么创世记12章就不能用来证明基督徒必须支持以色列国及其军事行动。
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There might be other good justifications, but you can't point to the Bible as one of them.
或许还有其他正当理由,但你不能把圣经当作其中之一。
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On the other hand, if you trust the dispensationalists, you can turn the promises of God into promises according to the flesh and instead of according to faith, but you're gonna run into some difficulties.
另一方面,如果你相信时代论者,你就把神按信心所给的应许转成按血统的应许,可这会带来麻烦。
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One of the costs of doing this is that you can no longer claim to be part of one of God's covenants, including the new covenant.
其中一个代价就是,你再也不能声称自己参与了神的任一约,包括新约。
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And also, you kind of have to treat Christ as a bigamist with two brides, Israel and the church.
而且,你还得把基督看成拥有两个新娘——以色列和教会——的重婚者。
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So I think that theological error is dangerous, not just for what it says about foreign policy, but more importantly for what it says about Jesus Christ and about his church and about the promises of God.
所以我认为,这种神学错误是危险的,不只是因为它对外交政策的影响,更因为它对耶稣基督、对他的教会以及对神的应许所说的话。
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But this is only the tip of the iceberg because in saying all of this, we're still left with a conundrum.
但这只是冰山一角,因为说到这里,我们仍然面临一个难题。
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What does it mean for the people who have been faithfully trying to follow the old covenant, but who don't believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah?
那些忠实遵行旧约、却不相信耶稣是弥赛亚的人,到底算什么呢?
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I do a much deeper dive on the subject right here.
我在这段影片里做了更深入的探讨。
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For Shameless Popery, I'm Joe Heschmeyer.
我是 Joe Heschmeyer,这里是『Shameless Popery』。
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God bless you.
愿神赐福给你。