Transcript

Welcome back to Shameless Popery.

I'm Joe Heschmeyer.

Protestants arguing with Catholics about Mary feels almost like a tale as old as time.

We've been doing this apologetic dance for centuries, and today, I wanna try to put some of these tired old steps to rest for good.

So these are five of the worst arguments against Mary and how to answer them.

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All right, let's get into it.

Argument number one, Mary can't be the Mother of God.

Okay, so take this piece from Apologetics Press.

It claims that Mary isn't the Mother of God because God doesn't have a physical mother, because nothing in the Bible presents Mary as the Mother of God, and because calling Mary the Mother of God is worshiping her.

None of that is true.

Mary is the mother of Jesus.

Jesus is God.

Therefore, Mary is the Mother of God.

It's honestly that simple.

Scripture refers to Jesus as God.

The Apostle Thomas famously cries out, My Lord and my God, in John 20:28.

And Jesus, who is God, has a physical human mother, as scripture says repeatedly.

Now, that doesn't make Mary the originator of the Trinity.

You know, if you're a woman who gives birth to a son, you didn't originate his masculinity, but you're nevertheless still completely, 100% his mother.

Like all mothers, Mary's the mother of a person, not a depersonalized nature.

And in her case, she's the mother of a divine person, Jesus Christ, who is God.

And contrary to the claims of these Protestants, that is exactly how Scripture presents things.

In Luke 1, verse 43, Elizabeth, filled by the Holy Spirit, refers to Mary as the mother of my Lord.

Now, Lord there is a reference to Jesus's divinity, as Adonai, the word for Lord, was the way that observant Jews would often avoid saying the name Yahweh.

Argument number two, but all have sinned.

All right, so this argument is straightforward enough.

Romans 3:23 says, All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

So Mary must have sinned, right?

I mean, after all, all means all, right?

Right?

Well, no.

Because by that logic, you would also have to say that Jesus has also fallen short of the glory of God, that he's also sinned.

All means all, right?

And the answer is, of course not.

Neither Catholics nor Protestants would think that Romans 3:23 means that Jesus was a sinner.

We'd recognize that as ludicrous.

Why?

Because in context, when St. Paul's talking about all, he's not talking about all individuals, he's talking about all peoples, the Jews and the various groups of gentiles.

That's the explicit context of Romans 3. Now, earlier in Romans 3, when St. Paul says that, None is righteous, no, not one, he's quoting Psalm 14, which is using hyperbolic language.

After all, just two verses after declaring that, There is none that does good, no, not one, David proclaims that God is with the generation of the righteous.

David cannot simultaneously literally think that God is with the righteous and that no one is righteous.

So if your argument against Mary's sinlessness is based on reading poetic language overly literally, and in a way that makes Psalm 14 self-contradictory, that's a reading problem.

But if your argument would suggest by that over-literal reading that Jesus is a sinner, that's a theological problem as well.

Argument three, if Mary is sinless, then she's equal to Christ.

Some folks, including folks like John MacArthur, think that if Mary's sinless, that would somehow make her equal to Christ, as if a sinless Mary would have been able to save the world.

This goddess worship is also an attack against the Son.

She becomes a counterfeit savior.

Born sinless, without the stain of original sin, living a sinless life.

Listen, if you are making this objection, you're only exposing how bad your Christology is, and honestly, how low your vision of God's sovereignty and majesty.

Think about it.

Angels are created sinless.

They are without sin, but they're not gods.

Adam and Eve were created sinless, but they weren't gods.

In fact, it's not an exaggeration to ask if Satan himself coined this argument.

After all, the way that he duped Adam and Eve in the garden, while they were, remember, still sinless, was arguing that they should regard themselves as equal to God.

So I'm honestly horrified that there are Protestant pastors out there falling into this same trap all these years later.

If you think that the only thing making you inferior to your infinite, uncreated, thrice-holy creator is the fact that you happen to be a sinner, all I can say is that is blasphemous foolishness.

And once you dispel yourself of that diabolical lie, you'll realize you can affirm that Mary is sinless, that St. Michael the Archangel is sinless, and that you're not threatening God's uniqueness or glory in affirming those things.

As the Second Vatican Council points out, the church does not hesitate to profess this subordinate role of Mary because no creature could ever be counted as equal with the incarnate Word and Redeemer.

Argument number four, but Jesus rebuked Mary at the wedding feast of Cana.

So, Protestants who think we shouldn't ask Mary to pray for us will sometimes point to the wedding feast of Cana.

When Mary tells Jesus that the couple has run out of wine, Jesus says to her, O woman, what have you to do with me?

My hour has not yet come.

And in English, especially calling your mom woman, that sounds harsh or even disrespectful, and so we can be sort of confused by this response.

And some Protestants think that what is going on here is that Jesus is rebuking Mary for asking for a miracle.

It is a little bit of a formal rebuke of, Mary, you're trying to use your inside access to me, ma'am.

You come to me just like anyone else.

Or as John MacArthur claims, Jesus refers to his mother as woman here

Because he is telling her, We don't any longer have the relationship we've had up to now.

She is no longer in a position to act as an authority in his life.

She is no longer in a position to tell him what to do, to make suggestions to him.

Using this argument against the power of Mary's intercession is bizarre if you bother to read the next few verses, where Jesus grants his mother's request.

I mean, according to this reading, Jesus is telling Mary she's nothing special, she can't even make suggestions, and then he capitulates and does what she suggests.

I mean, it's bizarre because these guys are giving Mary an authority that even Catholics don't think that she has, the authority to override a divine veto.

Okay, so the reality of what's happening here is actually much more interesting.

John's Gospel begins the same way as Genesis, In the beginning.

Bereshit, In the beginning, is the Hebrew name for the book.

And just like Genesis, John's Gospel then proceeds to tell the story of six days.

The wedding feast of Cana is day six of the new Genesis in John's Gospel.

And just as on day six of the first Genesis, Adam greets Eve by calling her woman, so Jesus now greets his mother by calling her woman.

The early Christians understood this, by the way, describing Mary as the new Eve.

That's because they actually read the Bible carefully, not just pulling half a verse out of context to prove an apologetic point.

Well, similarly, why does Jesus refer to his hour when he responds to Mary?

'Cause he's warning her that granting this request will be the first of his signs that manifest his glory.

In other words, performing this miracle for Mary will launch Jesus' public ministry.

It will lead him to his hour, that is the moment in which he would depart out of this world to the Father through his self-sacrificial death on the cross.

So the fact that Mary once again gives her yes, says, Do whatever he tells you, when these are the stakes, and that Jesus chooses this moment to launch his public ministry hardly suggests that Mary's just a random person to Jesus in the plan of salvation.

Argument number five, But Jesus rebuked Mary in Luke 11.

Speaking of fake rebukes of Mary, in Luke 11 when a woman says, Blessed is the womb that bore you and the breasts that you sucked, Jesus responds, Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it.

Now, according to some Protestants, Jesus is trying here to de-emphasize Mary as a warning to future Catholics.

So he diverted the attention away from Mary, his mama, and put the attention on the word of God and the importance of you and me keeping the word of God.

Now, Jesus knew something that was going to happen.

In reality, when I say, uh, knew something was gonna happen, 400 AD, 400 years later, uh, a group of people began to elevate Mary to an unlawful place.

But this reading is, again, biblically illiterate, since it pits Luke 11 against Luke 1, verse 41 and 42, in which Elizabeth, remember, filled with the Holy Spirit, cries out to Mary, Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.

So it cannot be the case that the third person of the Trinity is telling people to call Mary blessed and the second person of the Trinity is telling people not to.

Okay, so what is actually going on?

Well, it's quite simple.

Jesus is coming into the world as the Messiah and the king of the Jews, and it was customary in those days for the blood relatives of a king to have special connection and authority just because of their biological connection.

Jesus is showing us that this is not how the family of God works.

We are bound together by faith, not by ties of blood.

Now, that is great news for those of us who are Gentile Christians, who don't happen to be blood relatives of Jesus and yet can still truly be called his brothers and sisters.

But this is in no way a knock against Mary or those who happen to be blood relatives of Jesus.

On the contrary, as the Holy Spirit says through Elizabeth, this is the chief reason that Mary is blessed, not that she's a blood relative of Jesus, but that she's his first disciple.

Luke 1:45, Elizabeth goes on to say, Blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.

Blessed is she who believed is the perfect summary of why we treat Mary seriously.

In fact, we can go one step further.

By faith, we enter into the family of Christ, but this also means that, just like the beloved disciple, we can now claim Mary as our mother as well.

Now, that's not some manmade tradition.

That's what Revelation 12, verse 17 says about those who hold to the testimony of Jesus.

So there you go, five real arguments I've heard against Mary and their answers.

Now, if you're someone who uses these arguments, thanks for making it all the way through the episode, and hopefully, you won't use them anymore.

And if you're someone who these arguments have been used against, well, I hope that y- you now have a better idea what to say the next time you hear one of these clunkers.

Thank you, guys, so much for watching.

If you feel called, please consider supporting Shameless Popery on Patreon.

For Shameless Popery, I'm Joe Heschmair.

God bless you.