- start: 0.97
  end: 3.231
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And certainly, Christians do disagree on this issue.
  zh: 当然，基督徒在这个问题上确实存在分歧。
- start: 3.231
  end: 8.575
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I contend, however, and Lutheran reformers are going to contend, that Scripture actually is pretty clear.
  zh: 然而，我坚持认为，路德宗改革家们也会坚持认为，圣经其实是相当清楚的。
- start: 8.916
  end: 21.665
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When we talk about the clarity of Scripture on a doctrinal issue like infant baptism, what we don't need is a singular verse that just lays all of it out.
  zh: 当我们谈论圣经在婴儿洗礼这样的教义问题上的清晰性时，我们并不需要一节经文就把所有内容都说明白。
- start: 23.006
  end: 25.047
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We don't have that for most doctrine.
  zh: 对大多数教义来说，我们都没有这样的经文。
- start: 25.608
  end: 31.925
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Most doctrine is not simply a restatement of one particular verse.
  zh: 大多数教义并不是简单地重述某一特定经文。
- start: 33.006
  end: 46.011
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Some people may have an idea of the perspicuity of Scripture or an idea of sola scriptura that says that everything that we believe in Scripture, all of our doctrine, has to have a specific proof text.
  zh: 有些人可能对圣经的明晰性或唯独圣经有这样的理解，认为我们在圣经中所相信的一切，所有的教义，都必须有具体的证明经文。
- start: 46.011
  end: 52.834
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So you can go back to one strong text and say, Here's the doctrine of X; look at this verse.
  zh: 这样你就可以回到某一段有力的经文，说：这就是某个教义，看这节经文。
- start: 54.008
  end: 59.97
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But that's not how—really, that's hardly how any of our doctrine is developed.
  zh: 但这不是我们的教义发展的方式，实际上，几乎没有任何教义是这样发展起来的。
- start: 61.651
  end: 65.612
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The reason is because Scripture itself is not a doctrinal textbook.
  zh: 原因是圣经本身并不是教义教科书。
- start: 66.953
  end: 71.135
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's not to say that doctrine is not a concern of Scripture; I think it's an eminent concern of Scripture.
  zh: 这并不是说圣经不关注教义，我认为教义是圣经极其关注的事。
- start: 71.135
  end: 77.657
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, it's all over the place, but it's not laid out in the way that we would lay out a systematic theology book.
  zh: 我的意思是，教义遍布圣经各处，但它的编排方式并不像我们编排系统神学书那样。
- start: 77.657
  end: 79.718
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's not supposed to be laid out that way.
  zh: 它本来就不应该那样编排。
- start: 80.205
  end: 86.348
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's not like the Westminster Confession of Faith, where Paul said, Okay, here's the doctrine of God; here's the doctrine of Christ; here's the doctrine of man.
  zh: 它不像威斯敏斯特信条那样，保罗并没有说：好，这是神的教义，这是基督的教义，这是人的教义。
- start: 86.728
  end: 96.873
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, it's a series of prophetical books and historical books and narratives of Jesus' life and His teachings and occasional letters that are written.
  zh: 它是一系列先知书、历史书、耶稣生平和教导的叙述，以及一些书信的合集。
- start: 96.873
  end: 102.316
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So the Bible is an amalgamation of a lot of different kinds of texts.
  zh: 所以圣经是多种不同类型文本的集合。
- start: 102.836
  end: 117.069
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The way that we gather theology and understand theology and use Scripture to gather our theology is not to just say we need a proof text or two proof texts, but we need to look at the entire testimony of all of Scripture.
  zh: 我们收集神学、理解神学和使用圣经来建立神学的方式，不是仅仅说我们需要一两处证明经文，而是需要查看整本圣经的完整见证。
- start: 118.971
  end: 124.836
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: As long as you're allowing that, we could put the pieces together pretty well in terms of baptism.
  zh: 只要你接受这一点，我们就能很好地把洗礼的各个部分拼凑起来。
- start: 124.836
  end: 139.468
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's my contention that infant baptism is actually not that hard of a case to make from Scripture once you're willing to allow that, no, you don't have a singular verse that says, Oh, and by the way, babies should be baptized.
  zh: 我认为，一旦你愿意承认我们并没有一节经文明确说'顺便说一下，婴儿应该受洗'，从圣经论证婴儿洗礼其实并不难。
- start: 139.668
  end: 156.111
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We don't have a single verse that says babies should be baptized, but we have a whole strong pattern of texts and implications of texts that certainly point not just in that direction, but I'd say kind of necessitate that.
  zh: 我们没有单独一节经文说婴儿应该受洗，但我们有一整套强有力的经文模式和经文含义，不仅指向这个方向，我要说这些经文实际上使之成为必然。
- start: 157.172
  end: 161.632
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Part of this, we're talking about baptism and infant baptism.
  zh: 在这一部分，我们讨论的是洗礼和婴儿洗礼。
- start: 161.733
  end: 169.312
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I think that for the Lutheran tradition, our case is much easier to make than is the Presbyterian case.
  zh: 我认为对路德宗传统来说，我们的论证比长老会的论证要容易得多。
- start: 170.232
  end: 175.975
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's not to say I don't think Presbyterians are right in their arguments for infant baptism, but I think it's an easier case to make from our perspective.
  zh: 这并不是说我认为长老会为婴儿洗礼所作的论证是错误的，但我认为从我们的角度来看更容易论证。
- start: 177.636
  end: 206.805
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because if baptism is a means of grace and forgives sins, if that's the lens through which we approach baptism—if we approach baptism and say this is something God does, this is a means that God uses to forgive sins, this is a means that God uses to grant His Holy Spirit, as I'm contending it is—if that's the case, then the only thing that we really need to establish in terms of infants is whether they need forgiveness and whether they need the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 因为如果洗礼是恩典的媒介并赦免罪，如果这是我们看待洗礼的视角——如果我们认为洗礼是神所做的事，是神用来赦罪的方式，是神用来赐下圣灵的方式，就像我所主张的那样——如果是这样的话，那么关于婴儿，我们真正需要确定的就只是他们是否需要赦罪，是否需要圣灵。
- start: 207.465
  end: 214.527
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So then it becomes a question of original sin, and we can look at various texts in Scripture.
  zh: 所以这就变成了一个原罪的问题，我们可以查看圣经中的各种经文。
- start: 214.807
  end: 218.967
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In fact, actually, even those without original sin can hold to infant baptism.
  zh: 事实上，即使是那些不相信原罪的人也可能支持婴儿洗礼。
- start: 218.967
  end: 225.429
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Pelagius did, which seems very odd, and that was an argument that Augustine made to Pelagius: Hey, this doesn''t quite make sense.'
  zh: 伯拉纠就是这样，这看起来很奇怪，这也是奥古斯丁对伯拉纠提出的论点：嘿，这说不通啊。
- start: 225.429
  end: 228.75
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You have this whole infant baptism thing, but you're not willing to admit that infants are sinful.
  zh: 你支持婴儿洗礼，但你却不愿承认婴儿是有罪的。
- start: 228.75
  end: 230.77
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If they're not sinful, why do they need baptism?
  zh: 如果他们没有罪，为什么需要洗礼呢？
- start: 231.631
  end: 234.051
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This is a pretty good argument from Augustine; it's a good question.
  zh: 这是奥古斯丁提出的一个很好的论点，是个好问题。
- start: 235.652
  end: 243.674
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But if infants indeed are in need of saving and baptism is a means that saves, it's a no-brainer.
  zh: 但如果婴儿确实需要得救，而洗礼是得救的方式，这就是显而易见的事了。
- start: 243.674
  end: 248.775
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'I mean, the pieces fit together right there: infants need salvation; baptism gives salvation.'
  zh: 我是说，这些部分正好吻合：婴儿需要救恩，洗礼带来救恩。
- start: 248.775
  end: 249.896
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Baptize those babies!
  zh: 给这些婴儿施洗吧！
- start: 249.896
  end: 251.356
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's all you need to know.
  zh: 这就是你需要知道的全部。
- start: 252.166
  end: 255.188
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So that's pretty clear, I think, from a Lutheran perspective.
  zh: 所以我认为从路德宗的角度来看，这是很清楚的。
- start: 255.188
  end: 263.133
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But Scripture doesn't even just leave us there with the kind of logical connection, which would be strong in and of itself, I think.
  zh: 但圣经并不仅仅给我们这种逻辑联系，虽然我认为这种联系本身就很有力。
- start: 263.934
  end: 273.44
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It also has numerous examples of household baptisms, and this is what the Presbyterians will point to, or oikos baptisms, because that's just a Greek term for household.
  zh: 圣经还有许多家庭受洗的例子，这也是长老会常常指出的，或称为oikos洗礼，因为这只是家庭的希腊语词。
- start: 273.704
  end: 276.506
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There are three separate examples of household baptisms.
  zh: 有三个不同的家庭受洗的例子。
- start: 276.506
  end: 283.31
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Every time we know that an individual has a household and is baptized—this is both in Acts and 1 Corinthians.
  zh: 每当我们知道某人有家庭并受洗时——这在使徒行传和哥林多前书中都有记载。
- start: 283.31
  end: 286.111
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Paul mentions one family that he baptized.
  zh: 保罗提到他给一个家庭施洗。
- start: 286.372
  end: 296.823
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Every time we know that there is a family and one person believes, usually the head of the family, the individuals in the family are baptized too—the whole household.
  zh: 每当我们知道有一个家庭，其中一人信主，通常是一家之主，这家庭中的所有成员也都受洗——整个家庭都受洗。
- start: 296.823
  end: 299.464
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So there is this principle that they're baptized.
  zh: 所以这就是他们受洗的原则。
- start: 299.725
  end: 320.697
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This promise is for you and your children, as St. Peter would say in the sermon on Pentecost (Acts 2:38). This promise, being the promise that is the forgiveness of sins in baptism, as it's defined in that exact text, is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, all that the Lord our God will call to Himself.
  zh: 正如彼得在五旬节讲道中所说：「这应许是给你们和你们的儿女，并一切在远方的人，就是主我们的神所召来的。」这应许，就是在洗礼中罪得赦免的应许，正如这段经文所定义的。
- start: 321.397
  end: 324.092
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So you see that actual principle being played out.
  zh: 所以你看到这个原则在实际中得到了体现。
- start: 324.092
  end: 331.655
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We see that you and your children principle being played out in someone's baptized and their children are baptized, and those who are far off.
  zh: 我们看到这个'你们和你们的儿女'的原则体现在某人受洗，他们的儿女也受洗，还有那些在远方的人。
- start: 331.655
  end: 339.718
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We see that fulfilled in the calling of St. Paul and the mission to the Gentiles, which takes up a large portion of the Book of Acts.
  zh: 我们看到这在保罗的呼召和向外邦人传道的使命中得到应验，这占据了使徒行传的大部分内容。
- start: 340.178
  end: 346.421
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So that in and of itself is, again, a very strong argument by itself.
  zh: 所以这本身又是一个很有力的论据。
- start: 346.481
  end: 353.676
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then we have the connection between baptism and various Old Testament types.
  zh: 然后我们看到洗礼与旧约各种预表之间的联系。
- start: 353.676
  end: 355.056
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's not just circumcision.
  zh: 这不仅仅是割礼。
- start: 355.056
  end: 366.561
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Presbyterians just grab onto circumcision, and I think it makes their case weaker that they only hold onto circumcision because that tends to be the center of the argument.
  zh: 长老会只抓住割礼这一点，我认为他们仅仅抓住割礼反而使他们的论证变弱了，因为这往往成为论证的中心。
- start: 367.401
  end: 369.442
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I think there's a lot more to it than that too.
  zh: 我认为还有很多其他方面。
- start: 369.462
  end: 371.043
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, circumcision's there, and that's important.
  zh: 当然，割礼确实存在，这很重要。
- start: 371.043
  end: 379.086
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm not saying it's not a key, but what you do have is various Old Testament types of baptisms.
  zh: 我并不是说它不是关键，但你确实有各种旧约中洗礼的预表。
- start: 379.865
  end: 394.297
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'We have basically three that are explicit, and I think we have others as well that we can point to, but three are explicitly mentioned in the New Testament itself: circumcision, which is mentioned in Colossians 2, has a type of baptism.'
  zh: 我们基本上有三个明确的预表，我认为我们还可以指出其他的，但新约本身明确提到了三个：在歌罗西书第二章提到的割礼是洗礼的一个预表。
- start: 394.317
  end: 404.145
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So we do have circumcision, and then in 1 Corinthians, Paul mentions the crossing of the Red Sea, and then in 1 Peter, we see the flood—the flood being a type of baptism.
  zh: 所以我们有割礼，然后在哥林多前书中，保罗提到过红海，在彼得前书中，我们看到洪水——洪水是洗礼的预表。
- start: 404.886
  end: 414.455
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Now, if you look at all three of those great pictures of baptism, we can ask the question then: were infants included?'
  zh: 现在，如果你看这三个洗礼的伟大图画，我们就可以问这个问题：婴儿包括在内吗？
- start: 414.455
  end: 418.398
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, were infants included in those three types of baptism?
  zh: 好，在这三种洗礼的预表中，婴儿都包括在内吗？
- start: 419.139
  end: 423.322
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The three Old Testament pictures that God has—well, let's kind of go through them systematically.
  zh: 神在旧约中给我们的这三幅图画——好，让我们系统地来看一看。
- start: 423.703
  end: 424.763
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Circumcision?
  zh: 割礼？
- start: 424.884
  end: 438.054
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much just for infants, and it's just for infants or those who have newly converted to the Jewish faith and become part of the people of God.
  zh: 是的，我的意思是，这基本上就是为婴儿设立的，就是为婴儿或那些刚刚皈依犹太信仰并成为神子民的人设立的。
- start: 438.055
  end: 445.277
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They believe first and then are circumcised, but then from that point forward, their children receive circumcision.
  zh: 他们先相信然后受割礼，但从那时起，他们的儿女就在婴儿时期受割礼。
- start: 445.277
  end: 450.558
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They enter into God's covenant people through circumcision as infants.
  zh: 他们作为婴儿通过割礼进入神的约民。
- start: 451.158
  end: 452.078
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There we go!
  zh: 就是这样！
- start: 452.538
  end: 457.82
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, we have a believer's circumcision in Abraham, just like we have examples of believers' baptisms in Acts.
  zh: 你知道，我们在亚伯拉罕身上看到信徒的割礼，就像我们在使徒行传中看到信徒的洗礼一样。
- start: 457.82
  end: 460.1
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Of course you do; they're the first generation of Christians.
  zh: 当然会这样，他们是第一代基督徒。
- start: 460.1
  end: 461.101
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What else do you expect?
  zh: 你还能期待什么呢？
- start: 461.101
  end: 464.441
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, you're not going to get a time machine and go baptize them as infants.
  zh: 你知道，你不可能有时光机回去给他们施婴儿洗。
- start: 464.441
  end: 470.342
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, of course, the first generation of those who believe and receive the promise are going to receive it as adults.
  zh: 所以，当然，第一代相信并接受应许的人是作为成年人接受的。
- start: 470.342
  end: 471.882
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Duh!
  zh: 这不是很明显吗！
- start: 471.882
  end: 476.383
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So we know that's the case, but then the question is, well, what's the principle after that?
  zh: 所以我们知道情况是这样，但接下来的问题是，之后的原则是什么？
- start: 476.643
  end: 478.004
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, the principle is Abraham.
  zh: 嗯，这个原则就是亚伯拉罕的例子。
- start: 478.004
  end: 480.825
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, from this point forward, his descendants are to be circumcised.
  zh: 从那时起，他的后裔都要受割礼。
- start: 480.825
  end: 485.186
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The male descendants are to be circumcised at eight days old.
  zh: 男性后裔要在出生第八天受割礼。
- start: 486.046
  end: 487.566
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Similarly, with baptism, what do we see?
  zh: 同样，在洗礼方面，我们看到什么？
- start: 487.566
  end: 498.787
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This is for you and your children, and we see that same principle reiterated for a people that was already used to considering their children as part of the covenant people of God.
  zh: 这是为你们和你们的儿女，我们看到这同样的原则重复出现在那些已经习惯于将他们的儿女视为神约民一部分的人群中。
- start: 499.287
  end: 504.188
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then we have the example of the crossing of the Red Sea.
  zh: 然后我们有过红海的例子。
- start: 504.328
  end: 505.728
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, who was there in the Red Sea?
  zh: 那么，在红海那里有谁？
- start: 505.728
  end: 507.368
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The entire people of Israel.
  zh: 整个以色列民。
- start: 507.448
  end: 510.149
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There were plenty of infant baptisms in the Red Sea.
  zh: 在红海中有许多婴儿也经历了这洗礼。
- start: 510.149
  end: 513.13
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This is a baptism into Moses; it certainly didn't exclude infants.
  zh: 这是归入摩西的洗礼，它肯定没有排除婴儿。
- start: 513.13
  end: 515.87
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It was all of the people of Israel, including the infants.
  zh: 是所有的以色列人，包括婴儿。
- start: 516.29
  end: 520.371
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then we have the example of the ark.
  zh: 然后我们有方舟的例子。
- start: 520.451
  end: 520.871
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Guess what?
  zh: 你猜怎么着？
- start: 520.871
  end: 522.892
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It was Noah and his family.
  zh: 是挪亚和他的全家。
- start: 523.072
  end: 535.214
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So what we have is, first, we have a theology that says infants are in need of a Savior; they're in need of forgiveness.
  zh: 所以我们首先有一个神学观点，就是婴儿需要救主，他们需要赦罪。
- start: 535.434
  end: 537.014
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Baptism offers forgiveness.
  zh: 洗礼带来赦罪。
- start: 537.535
  end: 539.595
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, that's pretty strong in and of itself.
  zh: 好，这本身就很有力。
- start: 539.835
  end: 551.199
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then we have all of these Old Testament types of baptism that the New Testament explicitly connects to baptism, and in all of them, babies are included or infants, household members are included.
  zh: 然后我们有所有这些旧约中的洗礼预表，新约明确地将它们与洗礼联系起来，在所有这些预表中，都包括了婴儿和家庭成员。
- start: 551.699
  end: 559.94
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then we have the explicit connection in Acts of household baptisms that's reiterated at numerous points.
  zh: 然后我们在使徒行传中多次看到明确提到的家庭受洗的记载。
- start: 561.001
  end: 569.289
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Along with that, we can speak about Jesus blessing the children, saying, Of such belongs the kingdom of heaven.
  zh: 与此同时，我们可以谈到耶稣给小孩祝福，说：「让小孩子到我这里来，不要禁止他们，因为在神国的正是这样的人。」
- start: 570.39
  end: 588.374
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If two children belong to the kingdom of heaven and Jesus connects baptism with entering into the kingdom of heaven in John chapter 3—which I'm arguing is what He's saying—so we can debate John 3. As I said, I want to do a kind of exposition of that passage, but again, clear tie; it's a done deal just there, right?
  zh: 如果小孩属于天国，而耶稣在约翰福音第三章又将洗礼与进入天国联系起来——我认为这就是他的意思——我们可以讨论约翰福音第三章。如我所说，我想要解释那段经文，但再次说明，这联系很清楚，这不是已经很明确了吗？
- start: 588.874
  end: 591.576
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do infants get to enter the kingdom of heaven?
  zh: 婴儿能进天国吗？
- start: 591.576
  end: 593.617
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yes, according to Jesus.
  zh: 是的，根据耶稣的话。
- start: 594.798
  end: 596.539
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Is baptism how we enter the kingdom of heaven?
  zh: 洗礼是我们进入天国的方式吗？
- start: 596.539
  end: 598.26
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yes, according to Jesus.
  zh: 是的，根据耶稣的话。
- start: 598.26
  end: 598.781
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Guess what?
  zh: 你猜怎么着？
- start: 598.781
  end: 601.422
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Put the pieces together: babies should be baptized.'
  zh: 把这些线索连起来：婴儿应该受洗。
- start: 601.422
  end: 604.284
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So I actually think that's very clear as well.
  zh: 所以我认为这也是非常清楚的。
- start: 604.364
  end: 609.074
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And you also have to look at the context in which the Gospels are being written.
  zh: 而且你还要看福音书写作的背景。
- start: 609.174
  end: 616.26
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They're being written to the Church in which there is this process of catechesis and being baptized.
  zh: 这些书卷是写给那些有教理问答和洗礼过程的教会的。
- start: 616.941
  end: 624.347
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So people are seeing baptisms; they're seeing this as an integral part of the Christian community's entrance into the Christian community.
  zh: 所以人们看到洗礼，他们把这看作是进入基督徒群体的一个重要组成部分。
- start: 624.347
  end: 628.591
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: At this time, we have more than just that.
  zh: 在这个时候，我们看到的不仅仅是这些。
- start: 628.591
  end: 640.909
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When you look at the typology, we can break this down a little bit as well and just look at some general principles in Scripture, which is that the Old Covenant included infants.
  zh: 当你看这些预表时，我们也可以稍微分析一下，看看圣经中的一些基本原则，就是旧约包括了婴儿。
- start: 641.23
  end: 645.354
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: All of the Old Covenant signs of baptism included infants or children.
  zh: 所有旧约中洗礼的预表都包括婴儿或儿童。
- start: 647.917
  end: 661.387
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: To say that the New Covenant baptism, which is the fulfillment of what was in the Old Testament, now excludes a group that was included in the Old Testament type simply doesn't make sense.
  zh: 说新约的洗礼，也就是旧约预表的应验，现在反而排除了在旧约预表中包含的群体，这根本说不通。
- start: 661.387
  end: 664.009
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's not the nature of typology; it's not the nature of the New Covenant.
  zh: 这不符合预表的本质，也不符合新约的本质。
- start: 664.009
  end: 669.652
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: First of all, the movement from the Old to the New Testament—there are numerous examples of this.
  zh: 首先，从旧约到新约的转变——有许多这样的例子。
- start: 669.652
  end: 678.876
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, this is kind of the entire argument of the Book of Romans and Galatians—is that there is this movement from exclusion to inclusion.
  zh: 我的意思是，这基本上是罗马书和加拉太书的整个论点——就是从排除到包容的转变。
- start: 679.417
  end: 684.999
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In other words, the New Covenant is open in ways that the Old was not.
  zh: 换句话说，新约的开放性是旧约所没有的。
- start: 686.91
  end: 704.226
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: To say then that there was a group of people under a certain age that were not to receive baptism, now that were part of the Old Covenant in the Old Testament, goes exactly precisely in the opposite direction as the rest of Scripture goes on these questions.
  zh: 如果说某个年龄以下的群体不能受洗，而这些人在旧约中是属于旧约的一部分，这恰恰与圣经在这些问题上的其他教导方向相反。
- start: 704.287
  end: 712.414
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So it doesn't really fit the general tenor of Scripture and this principle that we see clearly laid out all over the place.
  zh: 所以这与圣经的总体基调和我们在各处清楚看到的原则不相符。
- start: 712.657
  end: 715.219
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The whole point of a type is that the fulfillment is greater.
  zh: 预表的全部要点就是应验要更大。
- start: 715.219
  end: 721.844
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, the fulfillment can't be greater if the type is for all of these people and the fulfillment is now that these people are excluded.
  zh: 如果预表是为所有这些人设立的，而应验却把这些人排除在外，那么这应验就不可能更大。
- start: 721.884
  end: 725.367
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's exactly the opposite point of a type and its fulfillment.
  zh: 这恰恰与预表和应验的要点相反。
- start: 725.507
  end: 729.991
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, for example, now women are included in baptism.
  zh: 比如说，现在女性也包括在洗礼之中。
- start: 729.991
  end: 732.052
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Women were not included in circumcision.
  zh: 女性不包括在割礼之中。
- start: 733.013
  end: 739.278
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Women certainly were included in the crossing of the Red Sea and Noah's flood, but they were excluded from all types of baptism.
  zh: 女性当然包括在过红海和挪亚洪水中，但她们被排除在所有洗礼的预表之外。
- start: 739.651
  end: 752.358
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We also do have types of baptism, I think, in the priestly washings that wouldn't directly connect to infants in the same sense, though, but that also is relevant to the discussion for sure.
  zh: 我认为在祭司的洁净礼中也有洗礼的预表，虽然这与婴儿没有直接的联系，但这肯定也与讨论有关。
- start: 752.679
  end: 760.843
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So it's going to be then the argument of the Lutheran reformers that this actually is clearly in Scripture.
  zh: 所以这就是路德宗改教家们的论点，这实际上在圣经中是很清楚的。
- start: 762.064
  end: 776.594
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What I find kind of odd is what you find in a lot of the polemics, and I see this today as well from Roman Catholics, is they try to minimize the clarity of Scripture on this issue and on the Trinity, especially.
  zh: 我觉得奇怪的是，在许多论战中，我今天也看到天主教徒这样做，他们试图淡化圣经在这个问题上和三位一体问题上的清晰性。
- start: 778.015
  end: 782.817
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's almost as if you need the Magisterium because who would have figured out this whole Trinity thing from just the New Testament itself?
  zh: 这几乎就像你需要训导权，因为谁能仅仅从新约本身就理解整个三位一体的事呢？
- start: 783.698
  end: 789.76
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, certainly the terminology and things like that were developed in time as part of the Church.
  zh: 当然，这些术语和类似的东西是随着时间作为教会的一部分发展起来的。
- start: 789.76
  end: 806.569
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I think the basic assertions of what the Trinity is and what we're talking about—the equality of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; the distinction of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; the unity of God—all of those pieces are in Scripture.
  zh: 我认为三位一体的基本主张和我们所谈论的——圣父、圣子、圣灵的平等；圣父、圣子、圣灵的区别；神的合一——所有这些要素都在圣经中。
- start: 808.131
  end: 814.755
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The ecumenical creeds certainly help to expound that which is already in Scripture.
  zh: 大公信经当然有助于阐述圣经中已有的内容。
- start: 815.776
  end: 818.978
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yes, using terms that aren't there in Scripture, but that's also okay.
  zh: 是的，使用圣经中没有的术语，但这也是可以的。
- start: 819.498
  end: 822.881
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I think using extra-biblical terminology is a fine and good thing.
  zh: 我认为使用圣经之外的术语是好的，是有益的。
- start: 822.881
  end: 827.804
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'I think that''s one of the things that theology needs to do: use extra-biblical terminology.'
  zh: 我认为这是神学需要做的事情之一：使用圣经之外的术语。
- start: 828.499
  end: 845.224
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's the work of a theologian and of the Church in general to take the biblical data and systematize it, to put it together, and to be able to now explain it or confess it in unique ways, but always going back to Scripture as the origin and source of that.
  zh: 神学家和教会的工作就是要把圣经的资料系统化，把它们整合在一起，并能够用独特的方式来解释或宣认，但始终要回到圣经作为其源头和根据。
- start: 845.505
  end: 851.787
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So that our unique doctrinal formulations can always be tested by Scripture; it's a higher authority than our doctrinal formulations.
  zh: 这样我们独特的教义表述就能始终接受圣经的检验，因为圣经的权威高于我们的教义表述。
- start: 852.287
  end: 855.948
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I don't think we need a Magisterium to do that.
  zh: 我认为我们不需要训导权来做这件事。
- start: 856.007
  end: 859.69
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So then let's read the rest of what is said here.
  zh: 那么让我们继续读这里说的其余部分。
- start: 859.69
  end: 864.774
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, so children are to be baptized, who by baptism being offered to God are received into God's favor.
  zh: 好的，所以儿童应当受洗，通过洗礼献给神，被接纳进入神的恩惠中。
- start: 864.794
  end: 875.523
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So it's the conviction that in baptism, children are received into God's favor; they are considered part of God's people; they are considered Christians.
  zh: 所以这是一个信念，在洗礼中，儿童被接纳进入神的恩惠，被视为神的子民的一部分，被视为基督徒。
- start: 876.044
  end: 880.347
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: George Henry Gerberding has a great section on infant baptism in his book, The Way of Salvation in the Lutheran Church.
  zh: 乔治·亨利·格伯丁在他的《路德宗教会的救恩之道》一书中有一个很好的关于婴儿洗礼的章节。
- start: 880.347
  end: 882.669
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We've published that; it's a wonderful, wonderful book.
  zh: 我们已经出版了这本书，这是一本非常非常好的书。
- start: 882.669
  end: 887.57
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I recommend it so highly, and our edition has been updated with modern language.
  zh: 我强烈推荐这本书，我们的版本已经更新为现代语言。
- start: 887.57
  end: 892.431
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I've changed all the translations to ESV instead of the older translation that it was.
  zh: 我已经把所有的译文都改成了ESV，而不是原来的旧译本。
- start: 892.431
  end: 898.052
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I was going to say King James, but it's not King James.
  zh: 我本想说是英王钦定本，但其实不是。
- start: 899.392
  end: 915.583
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He makes a really great argument that just in the way that the New Testament—and the Old Testament as well—but in the way that Scripture explains how you are to treat your children, it doesn't ever speak as if your children are to be considered unbelievers that you need to convert.
  zh: 他提出了一个很好的论点，就是新约和旧约在解释如何对待你的儿女时，从来没有把你的儿女说成是需要你去转变的非信徒。
- start: 916.363
  end: 917.364
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It just doesn't do that.
  zh: 圣经就是不这样说。
- start: 917.364
  end: 926.208
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In the Old Testament, you have the corporate people of Israel singing Psalm 22 together, saying, I trusted you at my mother's breast.
  zh: 在旧约中，你看到以色列民众一起唱诗篇22篇，说：「我自出母胎就被交在你手里；我自出母腹时，你就是我的神。」
- start: 926.869
  end: 929.71
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This is the corporate confession of the people of Israel.
  zh: 这是以色列民众的集体认信。
- start: 929.71
  end: 935.913
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Of course, it's David's experience, but the point is that kind of language is on the lips of the people of Israel.
  zh: 当然，这是大卫的经历，但重点是这样的话语在以色列民的口中。
- start: 935.993
  end: 944.486
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's not the expectation that your children are not Christians until they get to a certain point intellectually, and then they can understand a certain amount of things.
  zh: 这并不是说要等到你的孩子在智力上达到某个程度，能够理解一定的事情后，才能成为基督徒。
- start: 944.486
  end: 949.647
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then it's your job as a parent to get your children to believe in Jesus and repent and become Christians at some point in time.
  zh: 然后作为父母的工作就是要让你的孩子在某个时候相信耶稣、悔改并成为基督徒。
- start: 949.647
  end: 953.148
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's just not the way that Scripture functions at all.
  zh: 这根本不是圣经运作的方式。
- start: 953.208
  end: 958.75
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So Gerberding makes a really good point about that, and I think that we have to consider it, which is very much relevant to infant baptism.
  zh: 所以格伯丁在这点上提出了很好的观点，我认为我们必须考虑这一点，这与婴儿洗礼非常相关。
- start: 958.75
  end: 961.231
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So we consider them to be Christians.
  zh: 所以我们认为他们是基督徒。
- start: 962.311
  end: 972.169
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You don't consider your children not to be Christians as they are baptized; you consider them to have been received into God's favor until they start—or unless they start saying otherwise.
  zh: 你不应该认为你受洗的孩子不是基督徒；你要认为他们已经被接纳进入神的恩惠中，除非他们开始表示相反的意思。
- start: 973.01
  end: 974.25
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then you have to worry.
  zh: 那时你就要担心了。
- start: 974.25
  end: 987.095
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'But okay, then you have the condemnation at the end, which we''ve seen in a lot of these: here''s what we positively confess, and here is—yes, we''re saying yes, like you all—we also condemn these teachings.'
  zh: 但好的，然后在最后有谴责的部分，就像我们在许多这样的文章中看到的：这是我们积极认信的，这是——是的，我们和你们一样——我们也谴责这些教导。
- start: 987.315
  end: 989.756
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We are not teaching what the Anabaptists are teaching.
  zh: 我们不是在教导再洗礼派所教导的。
- start: 989.776
  end: 995.958
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So it says we condemn the Anabaptists who allow not the baptism of children and affirm that children are saved without baptism.
  zh: 所以它说我们谴责再洗礼派，他们不允许给儿童施洗，并且声称儿童不需要洗礼就能得救。
- start: 996.101
  end: 1003.246
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Anabaptists would say, Well, children are just saved anyway, so yeah, you don't have to worry about the whole baptism thing.
  zh: 再洗礼派会说，好吧，儿童反正都会得救，所以是的，你不用担心整个洗礼的事。
- start: 1003.887
  end: 1008.169
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And that maybe gets us into the question of, well, what does happen to children who weren't baptized?
  zh: 这可能让我们进入另一个问题，就是，那么未受洗的儿童会怎么样呢？
- start: 1008.43
  end: 1012.012
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And you know, I don't want to get too much into that.
  zh: 你知道，我不想过多地讨论这个问题。
- start: 1013.013
  end: 1020.284
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You also see that Krauss has another book on baptism.
  zh: 你也看到克劳斯还有另一本关于洗礼的书。
- start: 1020.284
  end: 1029.477
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We have a volume of his that is—and I'm looking at it on my bookshelf—he has a book that’s treatises on baptism or works on baptism, and he addresses this question really well there if you want.
  zh: 我们有他的一卷书——我正在看我书架上的这本——他有一本关于洗礼的论文集或著作，如果你想了解的话，他在那里很好地回答了这个问题。
