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Dialogue: 0,0:00:00.97,0:00:03.23,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}当然，基督徒在这个问题上确实存在分歧。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}And certainly, Christians do disagree on this issue.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:03.23,0:00:08.57,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}然而，我坚持认为，路德宗改革家们也会坚持认为，圣经其实是相当清楚的。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}I contend, however, and Lutheran reformers are going to contend, that Scripture actually is pretty clear.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:08.92,0:00:21.66,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}当我们谈论圣经在婴儿洗礼这样的教义问题上的清晰性\N时，我们并不需要一节经文就把所有内容都说明白。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}When we talk about the clarity of Scripture on a doctrinal issue like infant baptism, what we don't need is a singular verse that just lays all of it out.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:23.01,0:00:25.05,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}对大多数教义来说，我们都没有这样的经文。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}We don't have that for most doctrine.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:25.61,0:00:31.93,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}大多数教义并不是简单地重述某一特定经文。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Most doctrine is not simply a restatement of one particular verse.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:33.01,0:00:46.01,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}有些人可能对圣经的明晰性或唯独圣经有这样的理解，认为我们在\N圣经中所相信的一切，所有的教义，都必须有具体的证明经文。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Some people may have an idea of the perspicuity of Scripture or an idea of sola scriptura that says that everything that we believe in Scripture, all of our doctrine, has to have a specific proof text.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:46.01,0:00:52.83,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这样你就可以回到某一段有力的经文，说：这就是某个教义，看这节经文。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So you can go back to one strong text and say, Here's the doctrine of X; look at this verse.
Dialogue: 0,0:00:54.01,0:00:59.97,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}但这不是我们的教义发展的方式，实际上，几乎没有任何教义是这样发展起来的。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}But that's not how—really, that's hardly how any of our doctrine is developed.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:01.65,0:01:05.61,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}原因是圣经本身并不是教义教科书。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}The reason is because Scripture itself is not a doctrinal textbook.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:06.95,0:01:11.14,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这并不是说圣经不关注教义，我认为教义是圣经极其关注的事。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}That's not to say that doctrine is not a concern of Scripture; I think it's an eminent concern of Scripture.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:11.14,0:01:17.66,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我的意思是，教义遍布圣经各处，但它的编排方式并不像我们编排系统神学书那样。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}I mean, it's all over the place, but it's not laid out in the way that we would lay out a systematic theology book.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:17.66,0:01:19.72,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}它本来就不应该那样编排。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}It's not supposed to be laid out that way.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:20.20,0:01:26.35,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}它不像威斯敏斯特信条那样，保罗并没有说：好，\N这是神的教义，这是基督的教义，这是人的教义。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}It's not like the Westminster Confession of Faith, where Paul said, Okay, here's the doctrine of God; here's the doctrine of Christ; here's the doctrine of man.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:26.73,0:01:36.87,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}它是一系列先知书、历史书、耶稣生平和教导的叙述，以及一些书信的合集。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}I mean, it's a series of prophetical books and historical books and narratives of Jesus' life and His teachings and occasional letters that are written.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:36.87,0:01:42.32,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以圣经是多种不同类型文本的集合。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So the Bible is an amalgamation of a lot of different kinds of texts.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:42.84,0:01:57.07,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我们收集神学、理解神学和使用圣经来建立神学的方式，不是仅仅\N说我们需要一两处证明经文，而是需要查看整本圣经的完整见证。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}The way that we gather theology and understand theology and use Scripture to gather our theology is not to just say we need a proof text or two proof texts, but we need to look at the entire testimony of all of Scripture.
Dialogue: 0,0:01:58.97,0:02:04.84,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}只要你接受这一点，我们就能很好地把洗礼的各个部分拼凑起来。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}As long as you're allowing that, we could put the pieces together pretty well in terms of baptism.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:04.84,0:02:19.47,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我认为，一旦你愿意承认我们并没有一节经文明确说'顺便说\N一下，婴儿应该受洗'，从圣经论证婴儿洗礼其实并不难。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}It's my contention that infant baptism is actually not that hard of a case to make from Scripture once you're willing to allow that, no, you don't have a singular verse that says, Oh, and by the way, babies should be baptized.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:19.67,0:02:36.11,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我们没有单独一节经文说婴儿应该受洗，但我们有一整套强有力的经文模式\N和经文含义，不仅指向这个方向，我要说这些经文实际上使之成为必然。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}We don't have a single verse that says babies should be baptized, but we have a whole strong pattern of texts and implications of texts that certainly point not just in that direction, but I'd say kind of necessitate that.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:37.17,0:02:41.63,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}在这一部分，我们讨论的是洗礼和婴儿洗礼。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Part of this, we're talking about baptism and infant baptism.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:41.73,0:02:49.31,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我认为对路德宗传统来说，我们的论证比长老会的论证要容易得多。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}I think that for the Lutheran tradition, our case is much easier to make than is the Presbyterian case.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:50.23,0:02:55.97,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这并不是说我认为长老会为婴儿洗礼所作的论证是\N错误的，但我认为从我们的角度来看更容易论证。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}That's not to say I don't think Presbyterians are right in their arguments for infant baptism, but I think it's an easier case to make from our perspective.
Dialogue: 0,0:02:57.64,0:03:26.81,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}因为如果洗礼是恩典的媒介并赦免罪，如果这是我们看待洗礼的视角—\N—如果我们认为洗礼是神所做的事，是神用来赦罪的方式，是神用来赐\N下圣灵的方式，就像我所主张的那样——如果是这样的话，那么关于婴\N儿，我们真正需要确定的就只是他们是否需要赦罪，是否需要圣灵。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Because if baptism is a means of grace and forgives sins, if that's the lens through which we approach baptism—if we approach baptism and say this is something God does, this is a means that God uses to forgive sins, this is a means that God uses to grant His Holy Spirit, as I'm contending it is—if that's the case, then the only thing that we really need to establish in terms of infants is whether they need forgiveness and whether they need the Holy Spirit.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:27.47,0:03:34.53,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以这就变成了一个原罪的问题，我们可以查看圣经中的各种经文。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So then it becomes a question of original sin, and we can look at various texts in Scripture.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:34.81,0:03:38.97,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}事实上，即使是那些不相信原罪的人也可能支持婴儿洗礼。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}In fact, actually, even those without original sin can hold to infant baptism.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:38.97,0:03:45.43,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}伯拉纠就是这样，这看起来很奇怪，这也是奥古\N斯丁对伯拉纠提出的论点：嘿，这说不通啊。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Pelagius did, which seems very odd, and that was an argument that Augustine made to Pelagius: Hey, this doesn't quite make sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:45.43,0:03:48.75,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}你支持婴儿洗礼，但你却不愿承认婴儿是有罪的。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}You have this whole infant baptism thing, but you're not willing to admit that infants are sinful.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:48.75,0:03:50.77,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}如果他们没有罪，为什么需要洗礼呢？\N{\an2\fs10\i1}If they're not sinful, why do they need baptism?
Dialogue: 0,0:03:51.63,0:03:54.05,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这是奥古斯丁提出的一个很好的论点，是个好问题。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}This is a pretty good argument from Augustine; it's a good question.
Dialogue: 0,0:03:55.65,0:04:03.67,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}但如果婴儿确实需要得救，而洗礼是得救的方式，这就是显而易见的事了。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}But if infants indeed are in need of saving and baptism is a means that saves, it's a no-brainer.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:03.67,0:04:08.78,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我是说，这些部分正好吻合：婴儿需要救恩，洗礼带来救恩。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}I mean, the pieces fit together right there: infants need salvation; baptism gives salvation.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:08.78,0:04:09.90,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}给这些婴儿施洗吧！\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Baptize those babies!
Dialogue: 0,0:04:09.90,0:04:11.36,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这就是你需要知道的全部。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}That's all you need to know.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:12.17,0:04:15.19,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以我认为从路德宗的角度来看，这是很清楚的。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So that's pretty clear, I think, from a Lutheran perspective.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:15.19,0:04:23.13,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}但圣经并不仅仅给我们这种逻辑联系，虽然我认为这种联系本身就很有力。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}But Scripture doesn't even just leave us there with the kind of logical connection, which would be strong in and of itself, I think.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:23.93,0:04:33.44,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}圣经还有许多家庭受洗的例子，这也是长老会常常指出的\N，或称为oikos洗礼，因为这只是家庭的希腊语词。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}It also has numerous examples of household baptisms, and this is what the Presbyterians will point to, or oikos baptisms, because that's just a Greek term for household.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:33.70,0:04:36.51,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}有三个不同的家庭受洗的例子。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}There are three separate examples of household baptisms.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:36.51,0:04:43.31,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}每当我们知道某人有家庭并受洗时——这在使徒行传和哥林多前书中都有记载。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Every time we know that an individual has a household and is baptized—this is both in Acts and 1 Corinthians.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:43.31,0:04:46.11,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}保罗提到他给一个家庭施洗。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Paul mentions one family that he baptized.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:46.37,0:04:56.82,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}每当我们知道有一个家庭，其中一人信主，通常是一家之\N主，这家庭中的所有成员也都受洗——整个家庭都受洗。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Every time we know that there is a family and one person believes, usually the head of the family, the individuals in the family are baptized too—the whole household.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:56.82,0:04:59.46,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以这就是他们受洗的原则。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So there is this principle that they're baptized.
Dialogue: 0,0:04:59.73,0:05:20.70,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}正如彼得在五旬节讲道中所说：「这应许是给你们和你们的儿女，并一切在远方的人，就是\N主我们的神所召来的。」这应许，就是在洗礼中罪得赦免的应许，正如这段经文所定义的。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}This promise is for you and your children, as St. Peter would say in the sermon on Pentecost (Acts 2:38). This promise, being the promise that is the forgiveness of sins in baptism, as it's defined in that exact text, is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, all that the Lord our God will call to Himself.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:21.40,0:05:24.09,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以你看到这个原则在实际中得到了体现。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So you see that actual principle being played out.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:24.09,0:05:31.65,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我们看到这个'你们和你们的儿女'的原则体现在某\N人受洗，他们的儿女也受洗，还有那些在远方的人。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}We see that you and your children principle being played out in someone's baptized and their children are baptized, and those who are far off.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:31.65,0:05:39.72,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我们看到这在保罗的呼召和向外邦人传道的使命\N中得到应验，这占据了使徒行传的大部分内容。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}We see that fulfilled in the calling of St. Paul and the mission to the Gentiles, which takes up a large portion of the Book of Acts.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:40.18,0:05:46.42,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以这本身又是一个很有力的论据。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So that in and of itself is, again, a very strong argument by itself.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:46.48,0:05:53.68,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}然后我们看到洗礼与旧约各种预表之间的联系。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Then we have the connection between baptism and various Old Testament types.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:53.68,0:05:55.06,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这不仅仅是割礼。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}It's not just circumcision.
Dialogue: 0,0:05:55.06,0:06:06.56,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}长老会只抓住割礼这一点，我认为他们仅仅抓住割礼反\N而使他们的论证变弱了，因为这往往成为论证的中心。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Presbyterians just grab onto circumcision, and I think it makes their case weaker that they only hold onto circumcision because that tends to be the center of the argument.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:07.40,0:06:09.44,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我认为还有很多其他方面。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}I think there's a lot more to it than that too.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:09.46,0:06:11.04,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}当然，割礼确实存在，这很重要。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Now, circumcision's there, and that's important.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:11.04,0:06:19.09,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我并不是说它不是关键，但你确实有各种旧约中洗礼的预表。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}I'm not saying it's not a key, but what you do have is various Old Testament types of baptisms.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:19.87,0:06:34.30,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我们基本上有三个明确的预表，我认为我们还可以指出其他的，但新约本\N身明确提到了三个：在歌罗西书第二章提到的割礼是洗礼的一个预表。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}We have basically three that are explicit, and I think we have others as well that we can point to, but three are explicitly mentioned in the New Testament itself: circumcision, which is mentioned in Colossians 2, has a type of baptism.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:34.32,0:06:44.14,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以我们有割礼，然后在哥林多前书中，保罗提到过红海\N，在彼得前书中，我们看到洪水——洪水是洗礼的预表。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So we do have circumcision, and then in 1 Corinthians, Paul mentions the crossing of the Red Sea, and then in 1 Peter, we see the flood—the flood being a type of baptism.
Dialogue: 0,0:06:44.89,0:06:54.45,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}现在，如果你看这三个洗礼的伟大图画，我们就可以问这个问题：婴儿包括在内吗？\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Now, if you look at all three of those great pictures of baptism, we can ask the question then: were infants included?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:54.45,0:06:58.40,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}好，在这三种洗礼的预表中，婴儿都包括在内吗？\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Okay, were infants included in those three types of baptism?
Dialogue: 0,0:06:59.14,0:07:03.32,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}神在旧约中给我们的这三幅图画——好，让我们系统地来看一看。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}The three Old Testament pictures that God has—well, let's kind of go through them systematically.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:03.70,0:07:04.76,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}割礼？\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Circumcision?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:04.88,0:07:18.05,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}是的，我的意思是，这基本上就是为婴儿设立的，就是为\N婴儿或那些刚刚皈依犹太信仰并成为神子民的人设立的。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much just for infants, and it's just for infants or those who have newly converted to the Jewish faith and become part of the people of God.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:18.06,0:07:25.28,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}他们先相信然后受割礼，但从那时起，他们的儿女就在婴儿时期受割礼。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}They believe first and then are circumcised, but then from that point forward, their children receive circumcision.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:25.28,0:07:30.56,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}他们作为婴儿通过割礼进入神的约民。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}They enter into God's covenant people through circumcision as infants.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:31.16,0:07:32.08,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}就是这样！\N{\an2\fs10\i1}There we go!
Dialogue: 0,0:07:32.54,0:07:37.82,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}你知道，我们在亚伯拉罕身上看到信徒的割礼，\N就像我们在使徒行传中看到信徒的洗礼一样。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}You know, we have a believer's circumcision in Abraham, just like we have examples of believers' baptisms in Acts.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:37.82,0:07:40.10,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}当然会这样，他们是第一代基督徒。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Of course you do; they're the first generation of Christians.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:40.10,0:07:41.10,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}你还能期待什么呢？\N{\an2\fs10\i1}What else do you expect?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:41.10,0:07:44.44,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}你知道，你不可能有时光机回去给他们施婴儿洗。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}You know, you're not going to get a time machine and go baptize them as infants.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:44.44,0:07:50.34,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以，当然，第一代相信并接受应许的人是作为成年人接受的。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So, of course, the first generation of those who believe and receive the promise are going to receive it as adults.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:50.34,0:07:51.88,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这不是很明显吗！\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Duh!
Dialogue: 0,0:07:51.88,0:07:56.38,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以我们知道情况是这样，但接下来的问题是，之后的原则是什么？\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So we know that's the case, but then the question is, well, what's the principle after that?
Dialogue: 0,0:07:56.64,0:07:58.00,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}嗯，这个原则就是亚伯拉罕的例子。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Well, the principle is Abraham.
Dialogue: 0,0:07:58.00,0:08:00.82,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}从那时起，他的后裔都要受割礼。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Now, from this point forward, his descendants are to be circumcised.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:00.82,0:08:05.19,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}男性后裔要在出生第八天受割礼。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}The male descendants are to be circumcised at eight days old.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:06.05,0:08:07.57,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}同样，在洗礼方面，我们看到什么？\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Similarly, with baptism, what do we see?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:07.57,0:08:18.79,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这是为你们和你们的儿女，我们看到这同样的原则重复出现在\N那些已经习惯于将他们的儿女视为神约民一部分的人群中。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}This is for you and your children, and we see that same principle reiterated for a people that was already used to considering their children as part of the covenant people of God.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:19.29,0:08:24.19,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}然后我们有过红海的例子。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Then we have the example of the crossing of the Red Sea.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:24.33,0:08:25.73,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}那么，在红海那里有谁？\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Well, who was there in the Red Sea?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:25.73,0:08:27.37,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}整个以色列民。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}The entire people of Israel.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:27.45,0:08:30.15,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}在红海中有许多婴儿也经历了这洗礼。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}There were plenty of infant baptisms in the Red Sea.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:30.15,0:08:33.13,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这是归入摩西的洗礼，它肯定没有排除婴儿。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}This is a baptism into Moses; it certainly didn't exclude infants.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:33.13,0:08:35.87,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}是所有的以色列人，包括婴儿。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}It was all of the people of Israel, including the infants.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:36.29,0:08:40.37,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}然后我们有方舟的例子。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Then we have the example of the ark.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:40.45,0:08:40.87,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}你猜怎么着？\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Guess what?
Dialogue: 0,0:08:40.87,0:08:42.89,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}是挪亚和他的全家。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}It was Noah and his family.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:43.07,0:08:55.21,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以我们首先有一个神学观点，就是婴儿需要救主，他们需要赦罪。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So what we have is, first, we have a theology that says infants are in need of a Savior; they're in need of forgiveness.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:55.43,0:08:57.01,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}洗礼带来赦罪。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Baptism offers forgiveness.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:57.53,0:08:59.60,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}好，这本身就很有力。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Okay, that's pretty strong in and of itself.
Dialogue: 0,0:08:59.84,0:09:11.20,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}然后我们有所有这些旧约中的洗礼预表，新约明确地将它们与洗\N礼联系起来，在所有这些预表中，都包括了婴儿和家庭成员。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Then we have all of these Old Testament types of baptism that the New Testament explicitly connects to baptism, and in all of them, babies are included or infants, household members are included.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:11.70,0:09:19.94,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}然后我们在使徒行传中多次看到明确提到的家庭受洗的记载。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Then we have the explicit connection in Acts of household baptisms that's reiterated at numerous points.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:21.00,0:09:29.29,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}与此同时，我们可以谈到耶稣给小孩祝福，说：「让小孩子到\N我这里来，不要禁止他们，因为在神国的正是这样的人。」\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Along with that, we can speak about Jesus blessing the children, saying, Of such belongs the kingdom of heaven.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:30.39,0:09:48.37,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}如果小孩属于天国，而耶稣在约翰福音第三章又将洗礼与进入天国联系起来—\N—我认为这就是他的意思——我们可以讨论约翰福音第三章。如我所说，我想\N要解释那段经文，但再次说明，这联系很清楚，这不是已经很明确了吗？\N{\an2\fs10\i1}If two children belong to the kingdom of heaven and Jesus connects baptism with entering into the kingdom of heaven in John chapter 3—which I'm arguing is what He's saying—so we can debate John 3. As I said, I want to do a kind of exposition of that passage, but again, clear tie; it's a done deal just there, right?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:48.87,0:09:51.58,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}婴儿能进天国吗？\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Do infants get to enter the kingdom of heaven?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:51.58,0:09:53.62,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}是的，根据耶稣的话。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Yes, according to Jesus.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:54.80,0:09:56.54,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}洗礼是我们进入天国的方式吗？\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Is baptism how we enter the kingdom of heaven?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:56.54,0:09:58.26,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}是的，根据耶稣的话。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Yes, according to Jesus.
Dialogue: 0,0:09:58.26,0:09:58.78,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}你猜怎么着？\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Guess what?
Dialogue: 0,0:09:58.78,0:10:01.42,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}把这些线索连起来：婴儿应该受洗。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Put the pieces together: babies should be baptized.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:01.42,0:10:04.28,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以我认为这也是非常清楚的。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So I actually think that's very clear as well.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:04.36,0:10:09.07,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}而且你还要看福音书写作的背景。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}And you also have to look at the context in which the Gospels are being written.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:09.17,0:10:16.26,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这些书卷是写给那些有教理问答和洗礼过程的教会的。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}They're being written to the Church in which there is this process of catechesis and being baptized.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:16.94,0:10:24.35,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以人们看到洗礼，他们把这看作是进入基督徒群体的一个重要组成部分。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So people are seeing baptisms; they're seeing this as an integral part of the Christian community's entrance into the Christian community.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:24.35,0:10:28.59,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}在这个时候，我们看到的不仅仅是这些。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}At this time, we have more than just that.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:28.59,0:10:40.91,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}当你看这些预表时，我们也可以稍微分析一下，看\N看圣经中的一些基本原则，就是旧约包括了婴儿。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}When you look at the typology, we can break this down a little bit as well and just look at some general principles in Scripture, which is that the Old Covenant included infants.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:41.23,0:10:45.35,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所有旧约中洗礼的预表都包括婴儿或儿童。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}All of the Old Covenant signs of baptism included infants or children.
Dialogue: 0,0:10:47.92,0:11:01.39,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}说新约的洗礼，也就是旧约预表的应验，现在反而\N排除了在旧约预表中包含的群体，这根本说不通。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}To say that the New Covenant baptism, which is the fulfillment of what was in the Old Testament, now excludes a group that was included in the Old Testament type simply doesn't make sense.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:01.39,0:11:04.01,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这不符合预表的本质，也不符合新约的本质。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}It's not the nature of typology; it's not the nature of the New Covenant.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:04.01,0:11:09.65,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}首先，从旧约到新约的转变——有许多这样的例子。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}First of all, the movement from the Old to the New Testament—there are numerous examples of this.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:09.65,0:11:18.88,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我的意思是，这基本上是罗马书和加拉太书的整个论点——就是从排除到包容的转变。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}I mean, this is kind of the entire argument of the Book of Romans and Galatians—is that there is this movement from exclusion to inclusion.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:19.42,0:11:24.100,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}换句话说，新约的开放性是旧约所没有的。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}In other words, the New Covenant is open in ways that the Old was not.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:26.91,0:11:44.23,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}如果说某个年龄以下的群体不能受洗，而这些人在旧约中是属于旧\N约的一部分，这恰恰与圣经在这些问题上的其他教导方向相反。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}To say then that there was a group of people under a certain age that were not to receive baptism, now that were part of the Old Covenant in the Old Testament, goes exactly precisely in the opposite direction as the rest of Scripture goes on these questions.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:44.29,0:11:52.41,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以这与圣经的总体基调和我们在各处清楚看到的原则不相符。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So it doesn't really fit the general tenor of Scripture and this principle that we see clearly laid out all over the place.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:52.66,0:11:55.22,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}预表的全部要点就是应验要更大。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}The whole point of a type is that the fulfillment is greater.
Dialogue: 0,0:11:55.22,0:12:01.84,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}如果预表是为所有这些人设立的，而应验却把这些人排除在外，那么这应验就不可能更大。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Now, the fulfillment can't be greater if the type is for all of these people and the fulfillment is now that these people are excluded.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:01.88,0:12:05.37,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这恰恰与预表和应验的要点相反。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}It's exactly the opposite point of a type and its fulfillment.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:05.51,0:12:09.99,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}比如说，现在女性也包括在洗礼之中。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So, for example, now women are included in baptism.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:09.99,0:12:12.05,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}女性不包括在割礼之中。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Women were not included in circumcision.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:13.01,0:12:19.28,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}女性当然包括在过红海和挪亚洪水中，但她们被排除在所有洗礼的预表之外。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Women certainly were included in the crossing of the Red Sea and Noah's flood, but they were excluded from all types of baptism.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:19.65,0:12:32.36,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我认为在祭司的洁净礼中也有洗礼的预表，虽然这\N与婴儿没有直接的联系，但这肯定也与讨论有关。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}We also do have types of baptism, I think, in the priestly washings that wouldn't directly connect to infants in the same sense, though, but that also is relevant to the discussion for sure.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:32.68,0:12:40.84,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以这就是路德宗改教家们的论点，这实际上在圣经中是很清楚的。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So it's going to be then the argument of the Lutheran reformers that this actually is clearly in Scripture.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:42.06,0:12:56.59,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我觉得奇怪的是，在许多论战中，我今天也看到天主教徒这样做\N，他们试图淡化圣经在这个问题上和三位一体问题上的清晰性。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}What I find kind of odd is what you find in a lot of the polemics, and I see this today as well from Roman Catholics, is they try to minimize the clarity of Scripture on this issue and on the Trinity, especially.
Dialogue: 0,0:12:58.01,0:13:02.82,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这几乎就像你需要训导权，因为谁能仅仅从新约本身就理解整个三位一体的事呢？\N{\an2\fs10\i1}It's almost as if you need the Magisterium because who would have figured out this whole Trinity thing from just the New Testament itself?
Dialogue: 0,0:13:03.70,0:13:09.76,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}当然，这些术语和类似的东西是随着时间作为教会的一部分发展起来的。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Well, certainly the terminology and things like that were developed in time as part of the Church.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:09.76,0:13:26.57,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我认为三位一体的基本主张和我们所谈论的——圣父、圣子、圣灵的平等\N；圣父、圣子、圣灵的区别；神的合一——所有这些要素都在圣经中。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}I think the basic assertions of what the Trinity is and what we're talking about—the equality of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; the distinction of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; the unity of God—all of those pieces are in Scripture.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:28.13,0:13:34.75,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}大公信经当然有助于阐述圣经中已有的内容。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}The ecumenical creeds certainly help to expound that which is already in Scripture.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:35.78,0:13:38.98,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}是的，使用圣经中没有的术语，但这也是可以的。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Yes, using terms that aren't there in Scripture, but that's also okay.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:39.50,0:13:42.88,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我认为使用圣经之外的术语是好的，是有益的。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}I think using extra-biblical terminology is a fine and good thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:42.88,0:13:47.80,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我认为这是神学需要做的事情之一：使用圣经之外的术语。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}I think that's one of the things that theology needs to do: use extra-biblical terminology.
Dialogue: 0,0:13:48.50,0:14:05.22,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}神学家和教会的工作就是要把圣经的资料系统化，把它们整合在一起，并\N能够用独特的方式来解释或宣认，但始终要回到圣经作为其源头和根据。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}It's the work of a theologian and of the Church in general to take the biblical data and systematize it, to put it together, and to be able to now explain it or confess it in unique ways, but always going back to Scripture as the origin and source of that.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:05.50,0:14:11.79,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这样我们独特的教义表述就能始终接受圣经的检验，因为圣经的权威高于我们的教义表述。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So that our unique doctrinal formulations can always be tested by Scripture; it's a higher authority than our doctrinal formulations.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:12.29,0:14:15.95,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我认为我们不需要训导权来做这件事。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}And I don't think we need a Magisterium to do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:16.01,0:14:19.69,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}那么让我们继续读这里说的其余部分。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So then let's read the rest of what is said here.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:19.69,0:14:24.77,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}好的，所以儿童应当受洗，通过洗礼献给神，被接纳进入神的恩惠中。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Okay, so children are to be baptized, who by baptism being offered to God are received into God's favor.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:24.79,0:14:35.52,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以这是一个信念，在洗礼中，儿童被接纳进入神的\N恩惠，被视为神的子民的一部分，被视为基督徒。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So it's the conviction that in baptism, children are received into God's favor; they are considered part of God's people; they are considered Christians.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:36.04,0:14:40.35,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}乔治·亨利·格伯丁在他的《路德宗教会的救恩之\N道》一书中有一个很好的关于婴儿洗礼的章节。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}George Henry Gerberding has a great section on infant baptism in his book, The Way of Salvation in the Lutheran Church.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:40.35,0:14:42.67,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我们已经出版了这本书，这是一本非常非常好的书。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}We've published that; it's a wonderful, wonderful book.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:42.67,0:14:47.57,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我强烈推荐这本书，我们的版本已经更新为现代语言。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}I recommend it so highly, and our edition has been updated with modern language.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:47.57,0:14:52.43,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我已经把所有的译文都改成了ESV，而不是原来的旧译本。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}I've changed all the translations to ESV instead of the older translation that it was.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:52.43,0:14:58.05,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我本想说是英王钦定本，但其实不是。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}I was going to say King James, but it's not King James.
Dialogue: 0,0:14:59.39,0:15:15.58,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}他提出了一个很好的论点，就是新约和旧约在解释如何对待你的\N儿女时，从来没有把你的儿女说成是需要你去转变的非信徒。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}He makes a really great argument that just in the way that the New Testament—and the Old Testament as well—but in the way that Scripture explains how you are to treat your children, it doesn't ever speak as if your children are to be considered unbelievers that you need to convert.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:16.36,0:15:17.36,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}圣经就是不这样说。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}It just doesn't do that.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:17.36,0:15:26.21,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}在旧约中，你看到以色列民众一起唱诗篇22篇，说：「我自\N出母胎就被交在你手里；我自出母腹时，你就是我的神。」\N{\an2\fs10\i1}In the Old Testament, you have the corporate people of Israel singing Psalm 22 together, saying, I trusted you at my mother's breast.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:26.87,0:15:29.71,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这是以色列民众的集体认信。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}This is the corporate confession of the people of Israel.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:29.71,0:15:35.91,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}当然，这是大卫的经历，但重点是这样的话语在以色列民的口中。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Of course, it's David's experience, but the point is that kind of language is on the lips of the people of Israel.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:35.99,0:15:44.49,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这并不是说要等到你的孩子在智力上达到某个程\N度，能够理解一定的事情后，才能成为基督徒。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}It's not the expectation that your children are not Christians until they get to a certain point intellectually, and then they can understand a certain amount of things.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:44.49,0:15:49.65,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}然后作为父母的工作就是要让你的孩子在某个时候相信耶稣、悔改并成为基督徒。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Then it's your job as a parent to get your children to believe in Jesus and repent and become Christians at some point in time.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:49.65,0:15:53.15,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这根本不是圣经运作的方式。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}It's just not the way that Scripture functions at all.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:53.21,0:15:58.75,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以格伯丁在这点上提出了很好的观点，我认为\N我们必须考虑这一点，这与婴儿洗礼非常相关。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So Gerberding makes a really good point about that, and I think that we have to consider it, which is very much relevant to infant baptism.
Dialogue: 0,0:15:58.75,0:16:01.23,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以我们认为他们是基督徒。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So we consider them to be Christians.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:02.31,0:16:12.17,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}你不应该认为你受洗的孩子不是基督徒；你要认为他们已经\N被接纳进入神的恩惠中，除非他们开始表示相反的意思。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}You don't consider your children not to be Christians as they are baptized; you consider them to have been received into God's favor until they start—or unless they start saying otherwise.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:13.01,0:16:14.25,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}那时你就要担心了。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}Then you have to worry.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:14.25,0:16:27.10,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}但好的，然后在最后有谴责的部分，就像我们在许多这样的文章中看到的：这是\N我们积极认信的，这是——是的，我们和你们一样——我们也谴责这些教导。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}But okay, then you have the condemnation at the end, which we've seen in a lot of these: here's what we positively confess, and here is—yes, we're saying yes, like you all—we also condemn these teachings.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:27.32,0:16:29.76,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我们不是在教导再洗礼派所教导的。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}We are not teaching what the Anabaptists are teaching.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:29.78,0:16:35.96,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}所以它说我们谴责再洗礼派，他们不允许给儿童施洗，并且声称儿童不需要洗礼就能得救。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}So it says we condemn the Anabaptists who allow not the baptism of children and affirm that children are saved without baptism.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:36.10,0:16:43.25,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}再洗礼派会说，好吧，儿童反正都会得救，所以是的，你不用担心整个洗礼的事。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}The Anabaptists would say, Well, children are just saved anyway, so yeah, you don't have to worry about the whole baptism thing.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:43.89,0:16:48.17,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}这可能让我们进入另一个问题，就是，那么未受洗的儿童会怎么样呢？\N{\an2\fs10\i1}And that maybe gets us into the question of, well, what does happen to children who weren't baptized?
Dialogue: 0,0:16:48.43,0:16:52.01,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}你知道，我不想过多地讨论这个问题。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}And you know, I don't want to get too much into that.
Dialogue: 0,0:16:53.01,0:17:00.28,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}你也看到克劳斯还有另一本关于洗礼的书。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}You also see that Krauss has another book on baptism.
Dialogue: 0,0:17:00.28,0:17:09.48,Default,,0,0,0,,{\an2\b1}我们有他的一卷书——我正在看我书架上的这本——他有一本关于洗礼的\N论文集或著作，如果你想了解的话，他在那里很好地回答了这个问题。\N{\an2\fs10\i1}We have a volume of his that is—and I'm looking at it on my bookshelf—he has a book that’s treatises on baptism or works on baptism, and he addresses this question really well there if you want.