Transcript

Well, today is the fortieth day of Christmas.

And in the old calendar, we just celebrated the Mass of the Purification.

And in the new calendar, it's actually The Presentation, and it's really in the gospel the exact same thing that happens, is everyone comes into the temple at this point, or rather the Holy Family comes into the temple.

There's Simeon, there's Anna.

And I was thinking about this, and it was a coincidence.

And then I realized, it's like my friend calls it, a God incidence, that I was invited to speak on purification, or um, the um, The Presentation.

So I was thinking of the fourth mystery of the rosary.

The fourth mystery of the rosary is obedience.

And so I decided to actually write tonight's talk on obedience.

Now, a lot of times, if you ever got in a debate with a Protestant, you'll often discuss Romans, and they'll often give a lot of quotes from the Book of Romans to you.

But if you really look closely, Romans is about the obedience of faith, living our faith obediently.

And I wanna look at, before we jump in, the beginning of this is gonna be a little bit boring, but I want to discuss why is it so hard for American Catholics to be obedient?

And I want to give you four reasons why I think this is so difficult.

The first is the scandals that happen.

We don't need to say a lot more than that.

Uh, the second is Protestantism.

We live in a mostly Protestant country, where you leave your, uh, church if you don't like it, you start your own, and there's just endless bifurcations of communities.

Um, in a certain sense, our country is sort of founded on that rebellion of just starting what you feel like doing.

Three, number three is, um, people like to be very chummy and funny with, or rather priests like to be chummy and funny with their parishioners so as to ensure the financial success of their parish.

Priests like to be chummy and funny with parishioners so as to ensure the financial success of their parish.

And the fourth is the crisis of fatherhood that we have.

Um, in our country, all over the world right now, there's a really serious crisis of fatherhood that we have.

Now, I think that e- everyone here can probably think of probably situations that just fit my description.

But now I'm actually gonna up the ante and this is gonna be a little more challenging question.

I want you to think about those four things that have caused traditional Catholics to not really believe in obedience.

Let's look at those four.

The scandals.

Often it's not the scandals that make CNN.

A lot of times those scandals are doctrinal scandals, th- the fact that they didn't hear the truth from the pulpit.

Um, those really are scandals.

They turn away from God because of those.

Two, Protestantism.

Um, often people who do find the traditional Latin mass have had strong conversions from Protestantism, and that's a great thing.

Um, but sometimes they can keep going sort of in the self-made discovery, not only of the Bible as Protestants do, but the self-made discov- discovery of tradition and all the councils.

As I said, this is the boring beginning.

We're going to get to the more exciting part, so just follow me on this.

Um, third, chummy and funny with parishioners leads to more financial success of the parish.

Probably not too ac- applicable.

And four, crisis of fatherhood in the family.

That's just as inescapable through the country that we live in.

It's just inescapable.

Um, well, so now we're gonna jump into obedience to church, to the church on a topic that might ruffle a few feathers tonight.

In many circles, even outside of Louisiana, I've heard many traditional men speak of women's submission.

We're gonna talk about that tonight.

So I was actually in, uh, DC this last week, and I met a couple from, uh, France.

They normally went to the Fraternity of St. Peter parish there in France.

And I ended up having dinner with them.

And I said to him, we discussed sort of the things that were different about traditionalists in France versus traditionalists in the United States.

And one of the things that he mentioned is, or one of the things rather we talked about was kind of how American traditional men talk to their wives.

And he said, That just doesn't, you just don't see that disrespect.

Hold on, there's a ladybug on my Bible.

Just a second.

It's the only state in the n- in the union where ladybugs actually bite.

I'm terrified of them.

So we were talking about this, what is different about, uh, uh, sort of traditionalists in the United States versus traditionalists in France.

And he definitely saw there was a, a great difference.

And so I want you to hear that, that this is a global problem, so you don't think I'm just kind of tackling, uh, certain people or certain families.

But I will say, it is a priest's job to correct publicly any error in that.

And, um, I think sometimes there is error in traditional circles in this, not so much by commission, but omission.

And that's what we're gonna look at tonight, is, um, correcting some of those things, uh, that are often spoken.

But greater than this, understand that as I said, coast to coast, I've been to traditional parishes from California to Virginia, and we really have to challenge the men in their understanding of their s- their's, their view of sacrifice.

Now, sorry for the categorization, but just so you can kind of understand where I'm going, again, this is the end of the boring part of this.

Let's just use three categorizations of Catholics.

You got the liberals who reject things like Humanae Vitae.

You got who's called the neocons, neoconservatives, who really reject con- contraception and they accept Humanae Vitae, but they really like John Paul II.

And it's usually people who go to like a conservative mass in English.

And then the third is traditionalists, people who like the traditional Latin mass, aren't always giant fans of John Paul II.And they end up, uh, um, really appropriating, um, uh, what women's submission usually means.

Well, we're gonna put a couple corrections on all of these tonight.

And because there's no, quote unquote, liberals here tonight, we're gonna skip that.

But we are an interesting mix of neocons and traditionalists here tonight, actually.

So just accept that little definition for a minute while we jump into this.

But now here's the thing.

Neocons L- a lot of the world I came from, uh, often puts the emphasis on John Paul II, how man is called to lay down his life in sacrifice.

But traditionalists often put the weight on the woman.

They put the weight on the woman, how the woman is called to be submissive.

And tonight, I'm actually gonna tackle that to say some of the public teaching right here is erroneous.

Again, not in commission but actually omission in this.

And we're gonna look at that.

So tonight it's gonna be filling It's not gonna be condemning traditionalists.

It's not gonna be saying, uh, that It's not gonna be targeting anyone specific.

But we are gonna look, and again I want you to hear this as a global thing that even Frenchmen recognize that there's something lacking in the traditional man's understanding of what precedes, um, everything that we look at in Ephesians 5.

So we're gonna jump into that.

So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna ask the men in here not to look at what they do right, but I'm gonna ask you to look where you have improvement to make.

'Cause that's easy enough.

And, and, and really that's the hard thing, because when we see the state of the church we often say, Here's where the liberals need to change.

Right?

But the challenge I'm laying down tonight, and this is again why I might ruffle some feathers of some of the guys, I'm gonna ask you to look at where your life has to change.

And I'm not gonna use my words.

In fact, I'm not even gonna use John Paul II.

I'm gonna use the Church Fathers and a pope before Vatican II so that you can understand this is not my words, and that we're gonna look at that.

So let's just look at Ephesians 5.

This is the one that always causes all the debate.

But I want you to hear this from the point of view of, again, not patting yourself on the back, but hear men, especially what you need to work on in this.

Fathers, provoke not your children to ignination- indignation, lest they be discouraged.

Giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ, wives as to the Lord.

For the husband is head of the wife even as Christ is head of the Church, his body, and is himself its savior.

Now as the Church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her that he might sanctify her.

Having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word so that he might present the Church to himself in splendor without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

In the same way, husbands should love their wives as their own bodies.

He who loves his wife, cherish He who loves his wife, loves himself.

For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it just as Christ does the Church, because we are members of his body.

Now usually where we see the debate here is this line, Submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ, wives as to the Lord.

So we actually studied the Greek in seminary.

And the Greek in seminary only uses the verb at one point, and that is, Submitting to one another.

And then it adds on top of that, Wives, as to the Lord.

I'm gonna give you the Greek.

It says, Ɣουποστάσουμεν ἀλλήλους.

That means surrendering or being obedient to one another, ἐν φωβῳ Χριστοῦ which is in fear of Christ.

And then it adds, αἱ γυναικῆς, which is women, τοῖς ἴδιος ἄνδρῥσιν, which is women as to your men, ὡς τῷ Κύριῳ, as to the Lord.

Notice there was not a second verb in there.

Well, he knows his Bible.

There's no paragraph break between that.

In other words, what I'm trying to say is the primacy in the Greek, and I'll take anyone on after this if they have questions any time, 'cause I got my Greek Bible right here.

The Greek really is surrendering or submitting to one another.

And then only as an afterthought is it as, And women as to their men, as to the Lord.

But there's no actual verb in that second part.

It is a mutual submission.

And the second part as a cascade or overflow is that section, um, of, Wives, as to the Lord.

So that's just the Greek.

Also, let's look at Colossians chapter three, verse eight.

Wives, be subject to your husbands, as it behooveth in the Lord.

Husbands, love your wives and be not bitter toward them.

Children, obey your parents in all things, for this is well pleasing in the Lord, to the Lord.

Now this does not overturn the man's spiritual and temporal leadership of the family because it does say, ὡς τῷ Κυρίω, as to the Lord.

I'm not overturning the male leadership and the male, um, le- male leadership in both matters of spirit and matters of temporal decisions.

However, we cannot get rid of what the Holy Spirit inspired which is surrender, or rather submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

This is the Greek.

Submit to one an- one another out of reverence for Christ.

Now of all the fathers, we're gonna look at Saint John of the Cross.

I'm sorry, Saint John Chrysostom.

He was a Greek-speaking father, so he really knew this.

And so this is where-I want you to take his words and not mine.

Because as far as the public teaching, I don't think I'm correcting anything, um, as I said, by commission or any heresy, but I need to fill in some holes.

Uh, and I actually heard of these sort of few months before I even arrived in Louisiana.

Um, but I wanted to hear some of the public teaching first.

So this is what Saint John Chrysostom says, and we're gonna go by this just bit by bit, and I'm really gonna ask the men to apply this to their lives, to their families.

This is what Saint John Chrysostom says, quote, Have you noted the measure of obedience?

Pay attention to love's high standard.

If you take the premise that your wife should submit to you as the church submits to Christ, then you should also take the same kind of careful, sacrificial thought for her that Christ takes for his church.

Okay, let's pause right there.

Who loved who more, Christ or the church?

Christ.

Christ.

Now in Now Jesus ascended body and soul into heaven.

Right now, who loves who more, Christ or the church?

Christ.

Christ, exactly.

Continue this quote, Even if you must offer your own life And again, Saint John Chrysostom is speaking to the men here.

Even if you must offer your own life for her, you must not refuse.

Even if you must undergo countless struggles on her behalf and have all kinds of things to endure and suffer, you must not refuse.

Even if you suffer all this, you have still not done as much as Christ has for the church, for you are already married when you act this way, whereas Christ is acting for one who has rejected and hated him.

So just as He, when she was rejecting, hating, spurning, and nagging Him, brought her to trust Him by His great solicitude, not by threatening, lording it over her, or intimidating her or anything like that, so also you must act towards your wife.

Even if you see her looking down on you, nagging and despising you, you will be able to win her over with your great love and affection for her.

Just gonna read that last part again.

So just as Christ when He was Or sorry, Just as He when she- and he's talking about the church, all the faithful, was rejecting, hating, spurning, and nagging Him, brought her to trust him by his great solicitude, not by threatening, lording it over her, or intimidating her or anything like that, so you must also act towards your wife.

Even if you see her looking down on you, nagging and despising her, you'll be able to win her over with your great love and affection for her.

So this shows that the expectation is that man's love and service and sacrificial love for his family outweighs his wife's.

Man's love and service and sacrificial love, not just on the outside, but even in the home, must outweigh his wife's.

As I said, God has given the, uh, spiritual leadership for the family to the- to the men, but remember, how did Christ win the church?

It was through inspiration.

It was through inspiration that he did this.

Pope Pius XI, this is the second quote of two we're gonna look at, so I don't have a lot of quotes, but this is really important.

Pope Pius XI, uh, I think it was around 1950 says, This subjection, however, does not deny or take away the liberty which fully belongs to the woman, both in view of her dignity as a human person and in view of her most noble office as wife and mother and companion.

Nor does it bid her obey her husband's every request, if not in harmony with right reason or with the dignity due to wife.

Again, In view of her most noble office as wife and mother and companion, nor does it bid her obey her husband's every request if not in harmony with right reason or with the dignity due to wife.

So I know not everybody's here.

If you're gonna go and tell people, Fi- did Father Nick say that there is limited obedience?

Yes, but you have to add, It came from Pope Pius XI.

And we're gonna talk about Now, obviously, not in harmony with right reason, that means a command for what is sinful.

And obviously, anyone here or listening to my podcast, since I'm gonna podcast this, probably people listening are not, either here or on the podcasts, are not asking their wives to do anything sinful.

But that word dignity is really important, and I wanna just jump into that a little bit.

Um, it means not talking to your wives like they're your children.

It means don't talk to your wife like they're another child.

If you say you want more lasagna, don't say, Bring me more lasagna.

Say, Please bring me more lasagna.

Or maybe try serving her since your love has to outweigh hers.

Dietrich von Hildebrand and Alice Von Hildebrand are probably the two most famous writers of the 20th century on family life.

And when they were first married, Alice jumped into the shower and the soap was all, like, filmy.

And she got mad at him, and he said, I will make sure to take care of that from now on.

Now, real quick bracket, I mean, he saw what was coming in the council.

He wasn't a big fan of Vatican II.

He was an extremely strong-willed man who stood up to the Nazis, stood up to bad bishops who he thought were gonna try to ruin the church, loved the Latin Mass.

This isn't some pushover.

This is a very traditional man.

And when he saw his wife said, Why did you keep the f- soap all filmy?

He wiped it off with a washcloth after every one of his showers for the next 60 years .

for the next 60 years.

He wiped that s- the film off the soap.

And you know what Alex Von Hilderman calls it in her books?

Soapdish love.

She calls it soapdish love.

That is the type of service that man is called to.

And do you see what I mean?

That is the type of service that will inspire.

There won't have to be talk of women's submission when there's that level of inspiration, when there's that level of leadership.

Now, we're talking about obedience tonight, and I know that some of these words I have to say are maybe a little bit hard.

But we all have to convert in that.

Me, as a priest who's married to the Church, I need to pray for, uh, humility to repent in these things.

But also, we have to realize that in this line that we have, um, about men laying down their lives for their wives, I want to talk about a few of those things here.

And I sort of scratched out a lot of things, so I have to sort of find them here.

Um, the first thing is this.

Remember it says, and I gotta find that line here, Children, obey your parents in all things, for this is well-pleasing to the Lord.

You can sorta If I challenge you tonight, there's two approaches you can take to this.

You can either say, Father Dave is here to annoy me and change what we've had going for 20 years, or you can say, Boy, it took Father Dave a lot of courage to get up here and say this 'cause he loves us so much.

That's the other way you could take this.

If you don't see the love, I'd just encourage you to remember what it says in this very quote we looked at.

Children, obey your parents in all things, for this is well-pleasing to the Lord.

And you are my spiritual children.

And that means the same level of obedience that you expect from your children, I expect from you.

And if you go to Father Bill, to him.

Now, there's exceptions to this.

Heresy is obviously an exception, but I'm pretty sure Father Bill and I are not heretics.

Listen to that line again.

Children, obey your parents in all things, for this is well-pleasing to the Lord.

We priests expect, at least in matters of the parish, the same obedience that you expect from your children, if you're actually Catholic.

Now, again, I've heard I've, I've been coast to coast and talked to different traditionalists.

And some, not everybody by any means, so I don't wanna hear anyone who, who's hearing my podcast think that I'm just pigeonholing all traditionalists.

But there is a certain sense where many, many conservative men treat priests and their wives the exact same way, which is use.

What you give to me.

Men look at their wives for what they can get for food or pleasure.

And you'll often hear traditionalists say things like, He's just here for the sacraments.

Now, I know that sounds really Catholic, but you know what?

It's actually a Protestant, autonomous, individualistic view of selfishness with a very light coating of the sacraments on top of it.

We have a view of salvation in the Catholic Church which is not accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and tack on the sacraments.

It is the family of God, and love is the binding force of that.

You can't just follow the rules and have that.

I want you to listen to And if you read Saint Thomas Aquinas, you will see that charity and love, it's not just a cherry on the cake.

It's actually the cake.

Salvation is love, and love is salvation.

Now, I know that's twisted by liberals all the time.

But if you really look at the heart of the early Christians, if you really look at the heart of the scriptures, if you really look at the heart of the Holy Fathers, the Church Fathers, the Desert Fathers, even Saint Thomas Aquinas, you cannot be saved by just following the rules of obedience.

It has to be self-sacrificial love, both in the family and in the parish.

If you really believe in your baptism, that you became a son or a daughter of God, you have to have the same attitude of the Church authorities as what you expect from your children.

Again, that doesn't include heresy.

So men, here's my challenge to you today.

I'm gonna really challenge you to talk to your wives as if she were Mary, the Mother of God.

Doesn't mean you have to be, you know, overly delicate and never joke around.

I'm not saying that.

But I'm gonna encourage you again, talk to your wives as Joseph would to Mary.

This isn't me being overly sensitive on manners.

This really ties into the theology of the question, does the man in marriage represent the love that Christ has for his Church?

Let's just look up at that crucifix for a minute.

I want you men to ask yourself this question.

Does the man in marriage represent the love that Christ has for the Church?

Does your loved man in your marriage represent that love that Christ has for his Church?

Spiritual leadership of the family has been given to the man.

I'm not overturning that.

But I'm asking you men tonight to see that more as inspiration than anything unnatural.

Because even we are called to this humility and obedience to die for her bride, for our bride.

Me for the Church, who is you, and you for your family.

Jesus said, If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

Now, apply that to how every Christian marriage is supposed to be the reflection of Christ and the Church, and here's the outcome.

The man's love of her is so inspirational.And it's so self-sacrificing that He never even needs to mention submission, because being under His mission, that's what submission is, being under His mission is so inspirational.

How?

To see Him die for his bride in service.

This is true leadership.

This is true leadership.

Think of God becoming man.

Jesus could have demanded, Jesus could have demanded obedience of humanity in a thousand ways of conversion, coercion, excuse me.

Jesus could have demanded obedience of humanity in a thousand ways of coercion or power, but He chose the humility of the cross to win His bride.

Jesus governed the Church from the throne of the cross.

And so I'm called to govern my parish from the throne of the cross.

When people love me or hate me, I'm called to love you and not stab you in the back.

Men, in your families, you're called to rule your family through the throne of the cross.

No man is above Christ and His relationship to the Church.

That is why every man in this room, including me as a priest, to you, my bride, is called to live as leadership and authority by dying in love and inspiring our bride.

That will be inspirational up to the point that submission rarely needs to be mentioned on Tuesday nights or Thursday nights, because you're gonna be such an inspiration.

Finally, if you don't believe me, I just want you to meditate on Mary and Joseph.

Who is more holy, Mary or Joseph?

Mary.

Who was given charge of the family?

Joseph.

Mary obeyed Joseph.

But you know what I'm going to propose tonight it was easy.

Was she the Immaculate Conception?

Yes.

Was it easy because she was the Immaculate Conception?

Yes.

But I'm gonna propose it was easy for a different reason.

It was easy for Mary to obey when, when, when Joseph said, We have to leave and go to Egypt.

Remember, that came through an angel.

We don't know if Mary knew about that angel or not.

We have to leave and do it.

Why was it easy for Mary to obey?

Because of the tenderness, the tenderness with which he lived his life to Mary.

Because of the tenderness with which Joseph lived his life to Mary.

Whatever the Hebrew or Aramaic was, do I think he said please when she was serving a table?

Yeah, I really do.

I don't think he talked to her like a slave.

I think he talked to her with such a dignity and a tenderness that it inspired her.

Men, picture yourself as Joseph.

Women, picture yourself as Mary.

Just gonna close with a meditation just from today.

And again, I want you to just remember, on this fourth joyful mystery, which is a presentation, which is the purification, what we're called to is obedience.

And what I've said tonight is the Catholic Church's teaching.

There's something actually called the Magisterium of the Saints.

Men, the level of obedience you expect from your families, you are expected as Catholic men to live that obedience to that Magisterium of the Saints, whether you like it or not.

That's where conversion comes in.

And my job isn't to be popular.

My job is to get my bride to heaven, who is you.

But a priest is not only called to be a cheerleader.

He also has to be a father.

So I love you and I speak this from love.

Well, let's just finish with Luke 2:22 and kinda enter into, uh, picturing how the Holy Family interacted.

Maybe even picturing how Simeon would have interacted with Anna.

She, he wasn't her husband, but Okay, Luke 2:22, And when the time came for their purification according to the law of Moses, they brought him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord.

As it is written in the law of the Lord, every male that opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord, and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the law of the Lord, a pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons.

Now there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel and the Holy Spirit was upon him.

And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he should not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

And inspired by the Spirit he came into the temple.

And when the parents brought in the child, Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the law, he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said, 'Lord, now lettest Thou Thy servant depart in peace according to Thy word, for mine eyes have seen Thy salvation, which Thou hast prepared in the presence of all peoples, a light for revelation of the Gentiles, and for glory to the people, and glory to Thy people, Israel.' Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.

As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end, amen.

Saint Joseph

Pray for us.

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, amen.