Transcript
0.52 - 2.14
I was always an atheist.
我一直是名无神论者。
2.14 - 7.86
I have no memories of believing in God or even wondering if God might exist.
我不记得自己曾相信过神,甚至都不记得曾怀疑过神是否存在。
7.86 - 9.08
I, I never questioned that.
我从未质疑过这点。
9.08 - 16.94
To me, a strict atheist, materialist worldview just It seemed so obvious to me that it was correct.
对我这个坚定的无神论者来说,唯物主义的世界观显而易见是正确的。
27.70 - 30.98
I think I must have inherited this from my dad.
我想我一定是从父亲那里继承了这种观念。
30.98 - 41.68
My dad was an atheist at the time, although he didn't raise me to be an atheist per se, as much as he raised me to seek truth and question assumptions.
父亲当时是个无神论者,虽然他并非刻意把我培养成无神论者,而是教导我要追求真理并质疑假设。
41.68 - 50.84
No matter who tells you, you know, don't, don't ever accept something as true just because someone says that it's true, even if it's coming from me.
无论谁告诉你什么,都不要仅仅因为某人说某事是真的就接受它为真理,即使这话出自于我也是如此。
50.84 - 52.94
You have to find your own answers.
你必须自己寻找答案。
52.94 - 58.62
But to me, atheism, it, it just seemed obvious that it was true, and my dad and I really bonded on that.
但对我来说,无神论显而易见是正确的,我和父亲在这方面特别投缘。
58.62 - 68.20
And when I was in, I don't know, fourth or fifth grade, my nighttime reading that I would read with my dad, we alternated between Nancy Drew Mysteries and Carl Sagan.
我记得在四五年级时,晚上读书时会和父亲轮流读《南茜·朱尔探案集》和卡尔·萨根的作品。
75.50 - 77.60
Uh, my experiences were mostly negative.
我的经历大多是负面的。
77.60 - 99.68
I grew up in the Bible Belt where Christianity had largely become a cultural thing, and I know there were probably many wonderful true believers out there, but as a, a sensitive little kid who wanted to fit in, it was very hurtful to me when I wasn't invited to the sleepovers, I wasn't invited to certain events because I wasn't a churchgoer.
我在圣经地带长大,那里的基督教很大程度上已成为一种文化现象。我知道可能有很多虔诚的信徒,但作为一个敏感又想融入的小孩,当我不被邀请参加通宵聚会或某些活动时,这让我非常受伤,只因为我不是教会成员。
99.68 - 101.78
I was rejected socially because of that.
正因如此我在社交中被排斥。
101.78 - 108.64
And, and that's really painful when you're in sixth grade and have the bad hair and, and you just want to fit in.
当你六年级时,头发难看,只想融入集体,这真的非常痛苦。
108.64 - 115.90
And, and in fact, one time, I went to a camp where I thought we were just gonna be doing horseback riding and waterskiing.
事实上有一次,我去参加一个夏令营,原以为只是骑马和滑水。
115.90 - 120.70
I mean, the brochures showed kids, you know, roasting marshmallows by the campfire.
宣传册上展示的都是些孩子们围着篝火烤棉花糖的画面。
120.70 - 128.96
And I get there, and this camp counselor corners me and says, You must accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
结果到了那里,一个辅导员拦住我说:『你必须接受耶稣基督作为你的主和救世主。』
128.96 - 135.22
And I couldn't help but think, Uh, the brochures for this camp didn't say anything about re- religious interrogation.
我忍不住想:『这营地的宣传册上可没提过宗教审问的事。』
135.22 - 139.48
There were no pictures of inquisitions in, in the glossy brochures.
那些光鲜的宣传册里也没印宗教裁判所的图片啊。
139.50 - 145.48
And what they didn't understand was I didn't know who Jesus Christ was.
他们没明白的是,我根本不知道耶稣基督是谁。
145.48 - 154.00
Before they pressured me into accepting Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, they never stopped to tell me who Jesus Christ is.
在他们逼迫我接受耶稣基督作为主和救世主之前,他们从未停下来告诉我耶稣基督是谁。
154.18 - 155.84
Not that I would have believed it.
当然即使他们告诉我,我也不会相信。
156.32 - 157.38
Like I mean, it would've been-
这对话本就是徒劳的——
157.38 - 157.80
It would've been a useless conversation.
这会是场毫无意义的对话。
157.80 - 165.18
It would've been kind of a useless conversation, but they took it very personally when I when they said, Will you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?
当他们问:『你愿意接受耶稣基督作为你的主和救世主吗?』
165.18 - 166.98
and I said, No.
而我说『不愿意』时,
167.18 - 168.74
They took it really personally.
他们真的觉得受到了冒犯。
168.76 - 173.46
And I think what they didn't understand is I'd never heard a compelling case for Jesus Christ.
我想他们不明白的是,我从未听过任何令人信服的关于耶稣基督的论证。
179.80 - 185.92
In college, I became just a loudmouth, obnoxious atheist, and I remained that way.
在大学里,我成了个吵吵嚷嚷、令人讨厌的无神论者,并一直如此。
185.92 - 192.14
And then after college, I got a job at a high-tech company, and I met the guy who is now my husband.
大学毕业后,我在一家高科技公司工作,遇到了现在的丈夫。
192.22 - 203.26
And it wasn't until we had been dating, like three or four months when I found out not only did he believe in God, but he considered himself a Christian.
我们约会了三四个月后,我才发现他不仅相信神,还自认为是基督徒。
203.26 - 208.10
And, and this was shocking to me because I thought, He's so smart.
这让我很震惊,因为我觉得:『他这么聪明。』
208.10 - 210.50
Like, smart people can't be Christians, right?
聪明人不可能是基督徒,对吧?
210.50 - 212.84
I mean, that, that never happens.
这种情况根本不会发生。
212.84 - 214.94
And, I, I mean, he was so smart, in fact.
事实上,他真的很聪明。
214.94 - 218.76
He was raised by a single mother, grew up very, very poor.
他由单身母亲抚养长大,家境非常贫困。
218.76 - 222.46
I mean, his mother often couldn't run the heat in the winter, they were so poor.
母亲常常连冬天的暖气都供不起。
222.46 - 231.32
But she had heard of schools like Yale and Harvard, and she told him, If you want to get out of poverty, you have to go to one of these schools.
但她听说过耶鲁和哈佛这样的学校,告诉他:『如果你想摆脱贫困,就必须上这些学校之一。』
231.32 - 241.74
And so, having no connections, knowing nothing about it, he ended up going to Yale undergrad, graduating in three years with honors, Columbia Law School, and Stanford Business School.
于是,没有任何人脉、对这些一无所知的他,最终进入耶鲁大学本科,三年内以优异成绩毕业,接着又上了哥伦比亚法学院和斯坦福商学院。
241.74 - 242.78
Smart guy.
聪明人。
242.78 - 246.38
So when I heard that he was a Christian, it was shocking to me.
所以当我听说他是基督徒时,这让我非常震惊。
246.38 - 248.32
It was absolutely shocking.
这简直令人难以置信。
248.32 - 272.34
And people are often surprised that we could have been dating that long, four or five months before this came out, but what they don't understand is that even though I was technically an atheist and Joe was technically a kind of lapsed Baptist, he, he didn't pray, he didn't go to church or anything like that, we both essentially had the same god, and that was money and worldly success and, and having the right lifestyle.
人们常惊讶我们约会三四个月后才发现这点,但他们不明白的是:虽然我名义上是无神论者,乔名义上是浸信会信徒,但他从不祷告,也不去教会,我们本质上信奉的神都是金钱和世俗成功,以及拥有正确的生活方式。
272.34 - 274.66
Essentially, we had our religion.
本质上,我们有着共同的信仰。
274.66 - 276.02
We worshiped at the same idol.
我们跪拜在同一个偶像面前。
276.02 - 281.04
And that's why, you know, our religious beliefs honestly didn't come up very often.
所以说实话,我们的宗教信仰很少被提及。
287.12 - 293.20
I always felt like I'm almost happy, and I will be as soon as I get that next thing.
我总觉得自己几乎已经快乐了,只要再得到下一件东西就会彻底快乐。
293.20 - 301.62
So we've got the travel, we've got the, the beautiful loft, but I just need to do this one thing in my career, and then I'm going to be completely happy.
我们有旅行,有漂亮的阁楼,但只要在事业上完成一件事,我就会完全快乐。
301.62 - 307.18
It was a never-ending quest for the one last thing that was going to make me happy.
这是一场永无止境的追逐,总在寻找那件能让我快乐的最后一件东西。
313.66 - 329.20
So while I was living the high life, doing the travel, living downtown, all the, you know, all this amazing stuff, in the back of my mind, there was an awareness that there was a certain aspect of my atheistic beliefs that I had never really dealt with.
当我过着奢华生活,四处旅行,住在市中心,享受这一切时,我内心深处始终意识到:自己从未真正面对过无神论信仰中的某个特定方面。
329.26 - 336.44
So when I was in, I think, fourth or fifth grade, I went fossil hunting with my father, that we were amateur paleontologists.
我想是在四五年级时,我和父亲一起去寻找化石,我们是业余古生物学家。
336.44 - 343.56
We owned some property where there was a creek and there were all these amazing fossils that you could usually find if, if you looked.
我们拥有一片地产,那里有条小溪,通常只要仔细寻找就能发现许多奇妙的化石。
343.62 - 345.52
And I'd done that my whole life.
我一生都在做这件事。
345.52 - 352.26
And then one time, I, I can't remember exactly how old I was, but let's say fourth, fifth grade, I found a fossil.
有一次,我记不清当时具体多大了,大概是四五年级,我找到了一块化石。
352.30 - 360.26
And I had always thought of it like the fossils are the dead things, I'm the alive thing, and that's how it will always be.
我过去一直认为化石是死去的东西,而我是活着的,这种情况会永远持续下去。
360.26 - 362.52
This is the permanent state of things.
这是永恒的状态。
362.52 - 371.08
And I looked at this creature that had once been alive and had now been dead for so long, for millions of years.
我看着这个曾经活着、却已死去数百万年的生物残骸,
371.28 - 379.34
And I realized that my fate was no different than its fate, that my fate was the same fate as all the fossils.
突然意识到我的命运与它的命运并无不同,我和所有化石有着相同的归宿。
379.70 - 394.94
And suddenly it occurred to me that all of my memories, all of my emotions, my, my loves, everything that mattered in my life was destined to be extinguished, with nothing left of it, at the moment of my death.
我突然明白,我所有的记忆、情感、爱,以及生命中的一切重要事物,都注定在我死亡的那一刻彻底消逝,不留任何痕迹。
395.34 - 400.04
And I, I tried to find meaning in life in, in light of those circumstances.
在这种情况下,我试图寻找生命的意义。
400.04 - 408.08
I knew other atheists who somehow did find meaning in their lives, even in light of that, but I couldn't get there.
我知道其他无神论者以某种方式在这样的认知下找到了生命意义,但我却做不到。
408.08 - 419.18
I never found a way to find ultimate meaning in life from the, from the atheistic worldview, because people would say something like, Well, you can have an impact on the world.
我从未从无神论的世界观中找到过终极的生命意义,因为人们会说:『你可以对世界产生影响。』
419.18 - 421.88
You can have an impact on future generations.
你可以影响未来世代。
421.96 - 432.86
And I'd say, Okay, but what about when the last human is gone and the sun has become a red giant and has swallowed up the earth, and the earth is a smoldering crisp?
我会反问:『当最后一个人类消失,太阳变成红巨星吞噬地球,地球变成焦土时,这一切还重要吗?』
432.86 - 434.18
Then does it matter?
你觉得那时还重要吗?
434.18 - 435.22
I don't think it does.
我认为不重要了。
435.22 - 458.08
I mean, there is At, at some point if all And to quote Bertrand Russell, If, if all the heroism, all the labors of the ages are nothing more than the chemical reactions in our brain and are destined to just evaporate into nothingness, then no, I don't see how you get meaning in the human life out of that.
如果所有世代的英雄主义和辛劳都不过是我们大脑中的化学反应,注定消散于虚无,那么正如伯特兰·罗素所说,我实在看不出如何从中获得人类生命的意义。
458.08 - 464.88
And the way I, I handled that as I In young adulthood and, and through college was not very admirable.
年轻时和大学期间,我处理这个问题的方式并不值得称道。
464.88 - 468.16
I mean, basically, I just I decided to ignore it.
基本上,我选择无视它。
468.16 - 474.88
I mean, there, there was this fatalistic sense of, like, I, I know my life doesn't matter.
我总觉得生命毫无意义,有种宿命感。
474.88 - 479.20
And, and honestly, even suicide didn't seem that unreasonable in that worldview.
说实话,连自杀在那种世界观下也显得没那么不合理。
479.20 - 488.90
I mean, my I, I looked at it like, when you die, all the meaning in your life is, is multiplied by zero, and so it doesn't really matter when that happens.
我总觉得人死后生命的意义就乘以零了,所以什么时候发生其实都无所谓。
488.90 - 491.06
You still get zero in the end.
最终结果还是零。
491.26 - 502.16
And so d- I just sort of moved forward with this view of saying, you know, Well, I'm, I'm not gonna commit suicide, so I, I guess I'm just gonna find some way to just have a lot of fun and forget about it.
所以我只是带着这种观点继续生活,心想:『好吧,我不会自杀,那就找点乐子,忘掉这些吧。』
502.16 - 506.72
And it's It's a really shallow, immature answer, but, but that is the state I was in.
这回答很肤浅幼稚,但这就是我当时的状态。
506.72 - 514.88
When I was doing all the traveling and, and living downtown, somewhere in the back of my mind I knew that I had never dealt with that issue.
当我四处旅行、住在市中心时,我内心深处始终知道:自己从未真正面对过这个问题。
521.44 - 526.04
The big crisis point for atheism came when I had a child.
无神论的危机点出现在我有了孩子之后。
526.04 - 535.90
That was the moment when I realized that atheism did not really have a lexicon to capture the fullness of the human experience.
那时我才意识到无神论根本无法完整描述人类经验的全部。
535.90 - 543.80
I looked at my young child and I thought, Okay, so what is he in a strict atheist, materialist worldview?
看着年幼的孩子,我心想:『在严格的无神论和唯物主义世界观里,他算什么?』
543.88 - 552.12
And I thought, I don't believe that he is just a bunch of randomly evolved chemical reactions that came from nothing and will return to nothing.
我不相信他只是从虚无中随机进化而来、最终归于虚无的化学反应。
552.12 - 565.30
I don't believe that the love that I feel for this child, and that has come into my life since I've been married and since I've had a family, is confined to nothing more than the chemical reactions in the human brain.
我不相信对这个孩子的爱,以及结婚成家后出现的这些情感,仅仅局限于人类大脑的化学反应。
565.30 - 571.08
Now, it's important to note, I knew I was incentivized to think this way.
需要强调的是,我知道自己有动机这么想。
571.08 - 584.44
I was, I was very aware at the time, there was always that atheist voice in the back of my head that, frankly, is still there sometimes, that would say, You just want to believe that your son has a soul.
当时我就清楚,我脑中那个无神论的声音——说实话现在偶尔还在——会说:『你只是想相信儿子有灵魂。』
584.44 - 589.36
You just want to believe that th- this little baby is cosmically valuable.
你只是想相信这个婴儿具有宇宙性的价值。
589.46 - 604.14
And I thought about that, and, and I measured that, and I thought, Maybe I am incentivized to think that, that this atheistic view of what this child is is false, but I still think it's false, objectively.
我思考过这种动机,衡量之后认为:即使我有动机相信这个孩子的本质并非无神论所描述的那样,但客观上那个观点仍是错误的。
604.14 - 614.24
I, I just had this sense that, that the love that we encounter in the human experience has a source beyond the chemical reactions in the human brain.
我只是有种感觉:人类经验中的爱,其源头超越了大脑的化学反应。
620.64 - 628.02
It actually happened a few weeks after my, my baby was born, and I think that's significant because I was at a real low point.
孩子出生几周后发生这事,我觉得很重要,因为那时我正处在人生低谷。
628.02 - 629.52
I was exhausted.
我筋疲力尽。
629.52 - 633.82
I hadn't slept more than a couple hours per night in, in weeks.
连续几周,我每晚睡眠从未超过两小时。
633.96 - 643.06
And, you know, I'd always heard of religious conversions happening at low points, and I took that to mean that, yeah, people get desperate so they start clinging to fairytales.
我常听说宗教皈依发生在人生低谷,当时我认为:『人走投无路时才会抓住童话不放。』
643.06 - 654.28
But suddenly when I was in a low point and questioning atheism, it, it occurred to me, you know, maybe conversions happen in low points because you're finally a little humble.
但当我真正处在低谷并质疑无神论时,我突然想到:或许皈依发生在低谷,是因为人终于变得谦卑了些。
654.52 - 656.68
All my life I had been so prideful.
我一生都充满骄傲。
656.68 - 668.14
I just You know, having good health and a good job and a good education, I was very prideful, and I do think that that prevented me from asking honest questions about my worldview.
拥有健康、好工作和良好教育,我非常骄傲。这种骄傲确实让我无法诚实地审视自己的世界观。
674.60 - 676.76
One day I walked into a bookstore.
有天我走进书店。
676.76 - 679.52
I was not there to find anything religious.
我并非为了寻找宗教内容。
679.52 - 684.92
At this point I considered myself agnostic, and I thought that that's how it would always be.
那时我自认是不可知论者,以为会一直如此。
684.92 - 692.38
I'd begun dabbling in Buddhism because I live in Austin and it's required by law that we all dabble in Buddhism at some point.
我开始接触佛教,因为住在奥斯汀,法律规定我们迟早得接触佛教。
692.38 - 697.38
And I, I never expected my religious exploration to go any further than that.
我从未想过宗教探索会超出这个程度。
697.48 - 700.58
And I saw this book, literally just kinda stumbled across it.
我偶然看到一本书,可以说是偶然发现的。
700.58 - 708.14
I'd never been in the Christianity section of a bookstore or a library in my life, except for when I was in fourth grade.
我这辈子从未踏入过书店或图书馆的基督教专区,除了四年级那次。
708.14 - 717.62
Once I went into the Christianity section and I took all the Bibles in, in our school library and I put them in the fiction section 'cause I thought I was so edgy.
有次我走进基督教专区,把学校图书馆里所有圣经都移到小说区,自以为很叛逆。
717.82 - 721.62
So, I'd never been back in the Christianity section since then.
从那以后我再也没进过基督教专区。
721.62 - 730.39
And I saw this book called The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, and it said that this guy was a former atheist.And to me, that was so obviously a joke.
我看到李·斯特罗贝尔写的《为何相信耶稣:一个记者的调查》,书上说作者曾是无神论者。这在我看来显然是个笑话。
730.39 - 733.49
I mean, atheists can't convert to Christianity.
无神论者不可能皈依基督教。
733.49 - 734.75
It's impossible.
这根本不可能。
734.75 - 741.35
If you have ever seen the world through the rational, reasonable lens of atheism, you don't go believing in fairy tales.
如果你曾用理性、合理的无神论视角观察世界,你就不会相信童话。
741.35 - 742.91
I mean, that's impossible.
这根本不可能。
743.07 - 749.07
So I picked up the book just to see where he gave the tell that he was never really an atheist.
我拿起书只是想看看他什么时候会露出马脚,证明他从未真正是无神论者。
749.07 - 755.47
I'd heard other former atheists' testimonies, and they There was always some giveaway that they were never really an atheist.
我听过其他前无神论者的见证,他们总有些破绽表明他们从未真正是无神论者。
755.47 - 764.17
They'd say something like, Oh, I felt shackled by sin in my atheistic years, and I'd say like, Oh, atheists don't believe in sin, so you're lying.
他们会说:『啊,无神论时期我被罪恶束缚。』我就会想:『无神论者不信罪,所以你在撒谎。』
764.17 - 772.49
So, I thought I would play that game with Strobel's book, and I was pleasantly surprised to see that I believed him and his little intro.
我本想用这种心态读斯特罗贝尔的书,却意外发现我相信他说的和他的小序言。
772.49 - 779.79
Obviously, I thought his new Christian religion was all false, but I did believe that he was actually an atheist.
当然,我觉得他新信的基督教全是假的,但我确实相信他曾经是无神论者。
779.99 - 782.29
And so I decided to give the book a shot.
于是我决定读读这本书。
782.29 - 784.17
I, I just scanned through it.
我只是快速浏览了一遍。
784.29 - 789.03
And it's important to note that a few months before, I had actually said a prayer.
需要说明的是,几个月前我其实做过一次祷告。
789.03 - 790.35
I didn't even know how you pray.
我甚至不知道该怎么祷告。
790.35 - 797.35
I mean, how do you distinguish between talking to yourself and talking to the unknown thing that may or may not be out there?
你如何区分自言自语和与某个可能存在或不存在的未知对象对话?
797.35 - 800.63
You don't know You don't even know if it's one thing, many things.
你甚至不知道它是一个还是多个。
800.63 - 806.73
So I'd said this bumbling prayer, just saying, If anyone or anything is out there, I'm, I'm open to it.
我笨拙地祷告说:『如果有什么或谁存在,我愿意接受。』
806.73 - 811.95
So it was in this state of openness that I flipped through The Case for Christ.
正是在这种开放的心态下,我翻开了《为何相信耶稣:一个记者的调查》。
811.95 - 816.85
I could have found the same book a year before and I would have laughed at it and thrown it away.
如果一年前看到同样的书,我只会嘲笑它然后扔掉。
817.05 - 819.79
But I was in a state of openness, and I read through it.
但那时我抱着开放心态,认真读了。
819.79 - 827.19
And, and the author said, Lee Strobel said in the book, he said, I'm not trying to convince you to convert to Christianity on the spot.
作者李斯特罗贝尔在书中说:『我不是要立刻说服你皈依基督教。』
827.19 - 835.49
He said, I'm just trying to convince you that there is enough evidence for Jesus Christ, that it's worth looking into a little further.
他说:『我只是想说服你相信关于耶稣基督的证据足够值得进一步探究。』
835.49 - 837.63
It, it's worth exploring this.
值得探索这个。
837.69 - 840.37
And, uh, at the time, I didn't think the book was perfect.
当时我觉得这本书并不完美。
840.37 - 846.25
There were some things that just seemed like his case was weak, but there were a few things that I thought were interesting.
有些论点显得薄弱,但有些内容我觉得挺有意思。
846.25 - 852.47
For example, he pointed out that, you know, Christianity spread like wildfire.
比如他指出基督教传播得极快。
852.47 - 864.51
Starting in first century Palestine and then beyond, you know, you saw these Jewish people who had held onto their sacred traditions through all sorts of persecution, through thousands of years.
从公元一世纪的巴勒斯坦开始,你们看到这些犹太人历经各种迫害,坚持了数千年的圣传。
864.51 - 871.49
And, and in Strobel's book, he makes the case that you have this kind of lower class guy come from a lower class region.
斯特罗贝尔在书中论证说,有个出身底层地区的人,
871.49 - 887.11
He's executed along with thousands of other people that year, and yet you see all of these Jews willing to give up these religious and social institutions that they had held onto for thousands of years, through unspeakable persecution.
他当年和数千人一起被处决,但你们却看到这些犹太人愿意放弃他们历经千年迫害坚守的宗教和社会制度。
887.11 - 903.67
And then it spreads like wildfire throughout the globe, despite the fact that not only was there not a worldly payoff to converting to Christianity at that time, it, it often meant persecution or even death, not just for you, but for your family if you converted to Christianity.
尽管当时皈依基督教不仅没有世俗回报,反而常常招致迫害甚至死亡——不仅你自己,连你的家人也会受牵连。
903.67 - 907.27
And Strobel said, How do you explain that?
斯特罗贝尔问:『你怎么解释这点?』
907.27 - 914.21
The And he said, You know, what we as Christians think is that those people saw Jesus risen from the dead.
基督徒认为这些人亲眼看见耶稣从死里复活。
914.53 - 918.93
And I thought, Maybe I should look into this a little more.
我当时心想:『或许我该更深入研究这点。』
918.93 - 924.03
The I, I didn't think Christianity was true, but I was intrigued.
我并不认为基督教是真的,但开始感兴趣。
930.53 - 934.39
So I was intrigued by Christianity, so I bought a Bible.
于是我买了本圣经。
934.39 - 938.31
I grew up in the Bible, but I know you buy Bibles if, if you wanna know about Christianity.
我从小接触圣经,但我知道想了解基督教就得买圣经。
938.31 - 942.57
I had no idea which one to get, so I just chose the one that looked least like a Bible.
我完全不知道该买哪本,就选了本看起来最不像圣经的版本。
942.57 - 944.59
It had a plain black cover.
它封面是纯黑色的。
944.79 - 949.25
Now, you have to understand, I did not go to Sunday school growing up.
你要明白,我从小没上过主日学。
949.25 - 950.77
I didn't have a Bible.
我从没有圣经。
950.77 - 951.89
I'd never read the Bible.
我从未读过圣经。
951.89 - 954.79
I knew nothing about the Bible.
我对圣经一无所知。
954.79 - 971.93
Even in college, I, I was into this idea that we lived in a post-Christian culture and Christianity was irrelevant, so I intentionally avoided studying the Bible, even from a historical perspective, because I wanted to make the case that Christianity is dead and gone and nobody even needs it anymore.
即使在大学,我也坚信我们生活在后基督教文化中,基督教已无关紧要,所以我刻意避免研究圣经,哪怕从历史角度也不愿接触,因为我当时想证明基督教已死,没人再需要它了。
972.23 - 973.73
So I get this Bible.
所以我买了这本圣经。
973.73 - 975.75
And it's a book, right?
它毕竟是一本书,对吧?
975.75 - 983.59
You start, you start books on page one and Jesus is the main character, so he's got to come in by page 30 or 40.
你从第一页开始读,耶稣是主角,他肯定得在三十或四十页前出场。
983.61 - 989.11
So I'm in Deuteronomy, reading Deuteronomy like, Where are the fishermen?
我读着《申命记》,心想:『渔夫们在哪?』
989.11 - 990.11
Where is Jesus?
耶稣在哪?
990.11 - 991.29
What is going on here?
这到底怎么回事?
991.29 - 993.31
And it was a nightmare.
这简直像场噩梦。
993.33 - 998.99
And I was so confused, and, and Joe told me to skip ahead to the New Testament.
我完全搞糊涂了,乔让我跳到新约部分。
998.99 - 1006.03
My husband, who'd grown up Baptist, he, he knew, he knew about the Bible, so he said, Skip to the New Testament and it will all make sense.
我丈夫从小是浸信会信徒,他懂圣经,说:『跳到新约,一切就明白了。』
1006.03 - 1007.91
So I skip to the New Testament.
于是我跳到新约部分。
1008.37 - 1015.11
I expected the New Testament and the Bible as a whole to be kind of all like the Ten Commandments.
我原以为新约和整本圣经差不多,都是类似十诫的内容。
1015.11 - 1018.71
I thought there would be some action items, some bullet points.
我猜想里面会有些具体要求,像要点列表。
1018.71 - 1024.21
I thought it would end with a call to action, like, If, if you're convinced by this book, you know, here's what you do next.
我以为结尾会像行动号召:『如果你被这本书说服了,就知道下一步该做什么。』
1024.55 - 1026.23
But it was all stories.
但全是故事。
1026.23 - 1030.07
I was so baffled by this book.
这本书让我非常困惑。
1030.19 - 1033.83
On the one hand, I, I was intrigued by this figure of Jesus Christ.
一方面,我对耶稣基督这个人物产生了兴趣。
1033.83 - 1047.39
I was, I was intrigued by this Jesus guy that I was reading about in the Gospels, but I was baffled as to what I was supposed to be doing with this information, and I certainly didn't know how to interpret it.
我被福音书中这个耶稣吸引,但完全不明白该用这些信息做什么,更不知道如何诠释。
1047.39 - 1054.11
You know, there, there's, there's this story where the, the rich guy is told that he has to give away everything he owns to follow Christ.
比如有个故事里,富人被告知必须变卖所有财产跟随基督。
1054.13 - 1057.53
And I'm looking at my laptop thinking like, Really?
我看着自己的笔记本电脑心想:『真的吗?』
1057.53 - 1058.15
Everything?
所有东西?
1058.15 - 1060.19
I mean, Can, can I keep a few things?
我总能保留几件东西吧?
1060.19 - 1065.85
And so I would ask Christians online, and they'd say, Oh, ha, no, Jesus was just talking to that one guy.
于是我上网问基督徒,他们说:『哦,不,耶稣只是对那个人说的。』
1065.85 - 1066.83
You can keep your laptop.
你可以保留笔记本电脑。
1066.83 - 1067.79
It's fine.
这没问题。
1067.79 - 1078.85
But then I'd read the Mary and Martha story and, you know, where, where we learn that you're supposed to put the Lord above, you know, trivial things, and they'd say, Oh, well, no, that story was for everyone.
但当我读到马利亚和马大那段故事,得知应把主置于琐事之上时,他们又说:『哦,不,这故事是给所有人的。』
1078.99 - 1081.25
And I thought, Where is your answer key?
我心想:『你们的解经钥匙在哪?』
1081.25 - 1089.07
'Cause, 'cause I think I'm missing some sort of interpretation part of the Bible at the back, 'cause I don't know how to interpret these verses.
我觉得圣经后面应该附带某种解经指南,因为我不知道如何诠释这些经文。
1089.07 - 1093.61
And I certainly did not see a clear case for the Christian moral code in the Bible.
我确实没在圣经里找到清晰的基督教道德准则。
1093.61 - 1097.39
I had questions like, okay, I hear Christians are opposed to abortion.
我常问:『好吧,我听说基督徒反对堕胎。』
1097.39 - 1108.88
I hear that they're opposed to euthanasia.I read the entire New Testament and looked pretty thoroughly through the Old Testament, and I did not see a clear case for the Christian moral code.
听说他们反对安乐死。我通读了整本新约,仔细翻阅了旧约,但没找到明确的基督教道德准则。
1109.00 - 1116.42
And again, I heard these statements like, Well, we Christians can agree to disagree on, on what our moral code says.
我又听到类似说法:『我们基督徒对道德准则可以有不同意见。』
1116.42 - 1132.62
And again, I came back to this sentiment, no, you can't, because if you say that this god you worship is the source of all that is good, then you do not have the luxury of disagreeing about what is good.
但我觉得不对,如果你说所信的神是至善的源头,那你们就不该对善产生分歧。
1132.72 - 1139.34
So, it was very clear to me I had to know what the Christian moral code taught.
所以我必须弄清基督教道德准则到底教导什么。
1139.34 - 1144.52
And, and so I would say, you know, I'd, I'd, I'd go to these online You know, I, I didn't have any Christian friends .
于是我会在网上... 我没有基督徒朋友。
1144.52 - 1149.04
Being a loudmouth atheist doesn't tend to leave you with a wide Christian social circle.
作为吵吵嚷嚷的无神论者,你的基督徒社交圈不会太广。
1149.04 - 1150.00
So I'd go online.
所以我只能上网。
1150.00 - 1157.30
I would ask these Christians questions like, um, You know, you say that your religion doesn't believe in euthanasia.
我会问基督徒:『你们说宗教反对安乐死。』
1157.30 - 1159.90
I don't really see a Biblical case for this either way.
但圣经里没明确支持或反对这点。
1159.90 - 1170.52
And so they would come back Well, first of all, one Christian would say, Oh, yeah, e- euthanasia is okay sometimes within a Christian worldview, and here are the scripture verses that back up my claim.
一位基督徒会说:『哦,对,基督教世界观下安乐死有时是可以接受的,这些经文支持我的观点。』
1170.52 - 1172.74
The Christian over here would say, Oh, no.
另一位基督徒却说:『哦,不。』
1172.74 - 1178.32
We think that eu- euthanasia's a grave evil, and here are the scripture verses that back up my claim.
我们认为安乐死是严重恶行,这些经文支持我的观点。
1178.32 - 1191.92
I saw this over and over again, Christians constantly disagreeing about what the Bible says, but they would be, both be convinced they were right, and they both had scripture verses to back up their claims.
我反复看到基督徒对圣经教导意见相左,但都坚信自己正确,都引用经文支持己见。
1191.92 - 1198.74
And, you know, these people, it's l- like when I was a child, they were telling me they wanted me to follow Jesus Christ.
就像小时候他们劝我跟随耶稣基督。
1198.74 - 1202.82
They did not have agreement about who Jesus Christ is.
他们甚至对耶稣基督是谁都没共识。
1202.94 - 1214.72
It seemed to me like all these Christians in modern America were kind of projecting an image of who they wanted Christ to be, selecting some scripture verses to back that up, and worshipping that.
现代美国基督徒似乎都在投射自己希望基督成为的形象,挑选某些经文支持这点并敬拜它。
1214.72 - 1218.38
These people were not worshipping the same Jesus Christ.
这些人都不是敬拜同一位耶稣基督。
1218.54 - 1227.06
The other thing that was very concerning to me is when they would tell me, Find out for yourself what Christianity teaches about abortion and about all this stuff.
更让我担忧的是他们告诉我:『自己去查基督教对堕胎和这些事的教导。』
1227.06 - 1237.68
And they'd say, Just, you know, look at what the scriptures say, but be sure to read the New Testament verses in light of the Old Testament verses so that you can interpret them in context with one another.
他们说:『查查圣经怎么说,但要用旧约经文背景来诠释新约经文。』
1238.18 - 1241.32
And I said, Do you guys not have jobs?
我心想:『你们没有工作吗?』
1241.32 - 1258.34
Because , like, when am I going to find the time to read the entire Bible, cover to cover, and understand it so thoroughly that I can be a scripture scholar and know exactly what it says and know how to interpret these verses in context with one another?
我哪有时间通读整本圣经,逐字逐句彻底理解,成为圣经学者,准确掌握每段经文并能诠释彼此的上下文?
1258.44 - 1264.40
The other thing I saw is that this system they were proposing to me requires literacy.
我还发现他们提出的这套体系需要识字能力。
1264.42 - 1271.30
The world literacy rate is only 80%, and that is astronomically higher than it has ever been in the past.
当今识字率只有80%,这已比历史上任何时期都高得多。
1271.30 - 1277.24
There were many times and places when the vast majority of people did not know how to read.
过去许多时代和地区,绝大多数人都不识字。
1277.36 - 1289.32
So, I saw this system that not only does it require an enormous amount of free time, which I didn't have, uh, it requires high reading comprehension skills, literacy, and the printing press.
这套体系不仅需要大量空闲时间——我当时根本没有——还需要高水平的阅读理解能力、识字能力和印刷术。
1289.34 - 1300.50
You know, before the printing press, the it, it was impossible that the average family could own their own Bible, let alone a concordance or a Biblical encyclopedia or, or any documents like that.
印刷术发明前,普通家庭根本不可能拥有圣经,更别说经文汇编或圣经百科全书这类资料。
1301.14 - 1308.08
I looked around, and I thought, I see this system that, that people are proposing to me.
我环顾四周,心想:『我看到这套体系,人们向我推荐的这套体系。』
1308.08 - 1310.94
It doesn't work universally.
它并非普世适用。
1310.94 - 1318.02
I, I see a system here that seems very well-meaning, but I don't see a system that works in all times and places.
这套体系看似善意,但我看不出它能在所有时代和地区运作。
1324.20 - 1328.16
At, at that point, it was clear to me Christianity was bunk.
那时我认定基督教根本站不住脚。
1328.16 - 1328.86
Didn't work out.
根本行不通。
1328.86 - 1341.58
I'd given it a shot, and I was, I was surprisingly sad, actually, because I from reading the New Testament, I had felt surprisingly drawn to this figure of Jesus Christ.
我尝试过,却意外感到难过,因为读新约时,我竟被耶稣基督这个人物深深吸引。
1341.58 - 1346.10
And, you know, the old, the old atheist in me kept saying, It, it don't go with how you feel.
我内心那个老无神论者不断提醒:『别被感觉牵着走。』
1346.10 - 1347.32
It doesn't matter how you feel.
感觉根本不重要。
1347.32 - 1348.52
You have to look at evidence.
你必须看证据。
1348.52 - 1351.26
You have to see if you have a system that works here.
你必须看看你是否有一套在这里行得通的体系。
1351.46 - 1352.48
But I couldn't help it.
但我控制不住自己。
1352.48 - 1359.26
I just I was so intrigued by this Jesus Christ guy, and I wanted to know more about him, and I wanted to find him.
我被这个耶稣基督深深吸引,想了解更多关于他,想找到他。
1359.26 - 1364.26
And, and there was a part of me that thought maybe you could encounter Jesus Christ in a real way.
我内心有个声音觉得也许能真实地遇见耶稣基督。
1364.92 - 1368.76
But I had to admit that this religion was not checking out.
我不得不承认这宗教站不住脚。
1368.76 - 1371.56
It just didn't make sense.
这根本说不通。
1371.98 - 1375.28
So, I, uh by this time, I had started a blog.
到那时,我已经开了个博客。
1375.28 - 1380.08
A- again, you know, uh, being a loudmouth atheist doesn't tend to leave you with a lot of Christian friends .
作为吵吵嚷嚷的无神论者,很难交到基督徒朋友。
1380.08 - 1385.28
So I started a blog because I thought maybe there'll be some Christians on the internet .
我开博客是因为想也许网上能找到基督徒。
1385.28 - 1400.08
So, uh, I didn't have any readers to this blog, so I went to some atheist forums where, uh, Christians and atheists would debate, and I hand-picked the Christians who did the most amazing job of defending their faith to atheists.
这博客没读者,所以我去了无神论论坛辩论,挑出那些最擅长驳倒无神论论点的基督徒。
1400.08 - 1402.84
These people knew more about science than the atheists.
他们比无神论者更懂科学。
1402.84 - 1405.02
They knew more about history than the atheists.
他们比无神论者更懂历史。
1405.02 - 1407.46
They knew m- more about philosophy than the atheists.
他们比无神论者更懂哲学。
1407.46 - 1411.56
I mean, they these people could just make mincemeat of atheistic arguments.
他们能把无神论论点彻底驳倒。
1411.74 - 1417.34
What I didn't know at the time, I chose only a few Christians from the group that I saw debating.
当时我并不知道,我只挑了这群辩论者中的几位公教徒。
1417.58 - 1421.24
To a man, I had chosen all Catholics.
我选的全是公教徒。
1421.70 - 1427.02
I did not mean to that certainly was not my intention, and I didn't even know that yet at the time.
我并非有意为之,当时甚至不知道这点。
1427.22 - 1433.50
So I go onto my blog, and I say, Guys, your religion is totally bunk.
我在博客上写道:『你们的宗教根本站不住脚。』
1433.72 - 1441.64
I said, I don't know how to tell you this, but you have all of these Christians out there who are worshiping different Jesuses.
我说:『不知该如何告诉你们,但你们这些基督徒拜的都是不同的耶稣。』
1441.64 - 1449.38
They, e- they're I, I try to ask them what the most basic moral code is, and you have all these different propositions of what Christians believe.
他们... 他们对最基本的道德准则各执一词,每个基督徒都有自己的主张。
1449.38 - 1451.88
Everybody has scripture to back up their claims.
每个人都能引用经文支持自己的观点。
1451.88 - 1454.24
Guys, your religion is a hot mess.
你们的宗教一团糟。
1454.24 - 1455.72
I mean , you even have to admit this.
连你们自己都得承认这点。
1455.72 - 1461.48
It doesn't make any sense, and so I'm not I, I can't ever become a Christian.
这根本说不通,所以我绝不会成为基督徒。
1461.48 - 1464.38
I'm not gonna be exploring this religion anymore.
我不会再探索这宗教了。
1464.38 - 1470.29
I thought the response was going to be, uh, along the lines of them saying- yeah, you're right.
我原以为回应会是『你说得对』之类的。
1470.29 - 1472.83
Do you have directions to the nearest Buddhist temple?
『你知道去最近的佛教寺庙怎么走吗?』
1473.21 - 1475.09
But it wasn't.
但事实并非如此。
1475.29 - 1483.69
So all of these people, who I did not realize were Catholic, came back and said, Maybe there's another way.
这些我未意识到是公教徒的人回应说:『或许还有另一种方式。』
1484.17 - 1494.95
They said, What if, before Jesus went up to heaven, he founded a church, just one church that he instilled with his own authority?
他们说:『如果耶稣升天前建立了教会,只建立一个拥有他权威的教会呢?』
1495.31 - 1506.65
And just like he did with the writers of the Bible, what if he took imperfect people and used them as tools to convey perfect truth?
『就像他使用圣经作者一样,如果他使用不完美的人传达完美真理呢?』
1506.95 - 1511.83
You know, what, what he did with the writers of the Bible, what if he didn't stop doing that?
『就像他使用圣经作者那样,如果他从未停止这么做呢?』
1511.83 - 1526.03
What if he founded a church that to this day he uses, that he, he uses these imperfect people in the church to speak his truth for all times and all places?
『如果他建立的教会至今仍在使用,用教会里不完美的人向所有时代传达真理呢?』
1526.03 - 1531.07
And I thought, Yes.
我心想:『对啊。』
1531.37 - 1540.89
Yes, that makes so much sense because that would explain how people can come to know God who are illiterate or who have poor reading comprehension skills.
『对啊,这太有道理了,因为这能解释不识字或阅读理解能力差的人如何认识神。』
1540.89 - 1547.23
That explains how people could find the, the reliable truth about Christianity before the printing press.
这能解释印刷术出现前人们如何找到基督教的可靠真理。
1547.23 - 1549.03
They could find it through this church.
他们能通过教会找到答案。
1549.03 - 1568.29
It also explains You know, I'd, I'd seen all of these different ideas about who God is, but if there is this one church and it does have his own authority to answer questions about who he is and what he stands for, then yes, you, you can get one answer to that simple question, who is Jesus Christ?
这也解释了... 我见过各种关于神的不同观点,但如果存在一个教会,它有权威回答关于神是谁和代表什么的问题,那么对『耶稣基督是谁』这个简单问题就能得到统一答案。
1568.29 - 1569.53
I said, Yes.
我说:『对啊。』
1569.53 - 1571.97
This theory, yes, yes, yes.
这个理论,对啊对啊对啊。
1571.97 - 1573.87
And they said, That's Catholicism.
他们说:『这就是公教。』
1573.87 - 1576.15
And I said, No, no, no.
我说:『不不不。』
1576.15 - 1578.43
Like, I can't become Catholic.
我怎么可能成为公教徒?
1578.43 - 1579.45
What am I, insane?
我疯了吗?
1579.45 - 1580.97
There's no way.
这根本不可能。
1580.99 - 1588.85
But, but I was stuck because that was the only viable option within Christianity.
但我卡住了,因为这是基督教内唯一可行的选择。
1588.85 - 1592.69
I didn't see another way this religion could work.
我看不出这宗教还有其他运作方式。
1599.03 - 1601.37
So, I had nowhere else to turn.
我无处可去。
1601.37 - 1604.05
This All these other theories didn't make sense.
其他理论都站不住脚。
1604.05 - 1609.13
This was the one theory within Christianity that even might make sense.
这是基督教内唯一可能说得通的理论。
1609.47 - 1612.79
And so I began exploring the Catholic moral code.
于是我开始探索公教道德准则。
1612.79 - 1626.13
I began looking into the church's explanation for what it is and what it does, and I found the most internally consistent belief system I had ever encountered.
我开始研究教会对其存在和行为的解释,发现这是最自洽的信仰体系。
1626.13 - 1630.33
I also found it that it was imminently reasonable.
我还发现这体系极其合理。
1630.33 - 1636.09
I, I thought it was gonna be all this fairy tale mumbo jumbo, but it was so reasonable.
我原以为会是童话般的胡言乱语,但它却如此合理。
1636.09 - 1651.85
And I, I once heard a great analogy where, where this philosopher said that Christianity is like the box top to the puzzle pieces of life, that it, it gives you the box top that helps you put the puzzle pieces together, and that is exactly what I had found.
我听过个绝妙的类比,有位哲学家说基督教就像拼图盒上的封面,它提供封面帮助你拼合碎片,这正是我找到的。
1651.85 - 1657.21
With, with atheism, it was like I had a box top that was almost right.
用无神论时,就像我有个几乎正确的封面。
1657.21 - 1665.17
It I, I could put together a lot of pieces, but then, you know, you'd try to jam these two together and they're not fitting, and it wasn't quite coming together.
我能拼出许多碎片,但某些碎片怎么也拼不上,整体始终拼不完整。
1665.41 - 1676.49
And when I began looking into the Catholic worldview, set aside the atheist box top, bring the Catholic one over, suddenly, all the puzzle pieces started fitting together.
当我开始用公教世界观看世界,丢开无神论的封面,换上公教的封面,所有碎片突然拼合了。
1676.49 - 1681.13
I, I could suddenly make sense of my life, of the human experience.
我突然能理解自己的人生和人类经验。
1681.13 - 1688.87
Every single part of the human experience came together for me when I began looking at the world through this Catholic worldview.
当我用公教世界观看世界时,人类经验的每个碎片都拼合了。
1688.93 - 1696.91
And the thing that intrigued both me and my husband the most was what the Catholic Church taught about abortion and contraception.
最让我和丈夫感兴趣的是公教会关于堕胎和避孕的教导。
1696.97 - 1699.37
I had always been pro-choice.
我一直是支持选择权的。
1699.37 - 1710.51
I thought that access to abortion was the key to women's freedom, and I saw anyone who opposed abortion as opposing women's freedom.
我认为堕胎自由是女性自由的关键,反对堕胎的人都是在反对女性自由。
1710.51 - 1717.35
Like most people of my generation, I saw contraception as just a universal good that all people need.
和我这代大多数人一样,我认为避孕是所有人都需要的普世益事。
1717.35 - 1718.67
It has no downside.
它毫无弊端。
1718.67 - 1722.63
It, it's just a necessary resource, like air or water.
它就像空气或水一样是必要资源。
1722.67 - 1728.79
So when I first heard that the Catholic Church opposed it, honestly, I thought it was an urban legend .
所以第一次听说公教会反对避孕时,我确实以为是都市传说。
1728.79 - 1746.09
And so I, I cannot even convey what a shock it was when I heard the Catholic Church's explanation for what it teaches about abortion and about contraception, and I realized it's totally reasonable.
但当我听到公教会关于堕胎和避孕的解释,发现完全合理时,我震惊得无法形容。
1746.25 - 1747.87
It makes sense.
这说得通。
1747.87 - 1754.77
And not only does it make sense, but this is what women's freedom looks like.
不仅说得通,这正是女性自由的模样。
1761.19 - 1780.47
So what I realized when I began looking at what Catholics believe on this subject is that the reason I had always understood abortion to be key to women's freedom is because, you know, like everyone else of my generation, I had just taken a pro-contraception worldview for granted.
我开始了解公教徒的信念时,发现我过去一直认为堕胎是女性自由的关键,是因为和我这代大多数人一样,我默认了支持避孕的世界观。
1780.47 - 1785.33
You know, I went to public school, like, you learn in all the health classes how important contraception is.
我上公立学校,在健康课程里学的全是避孕的重要性。
1785.33 - 1802.37
I was part of this generation where young women were told that even if you are not ready to have a baby, even if you are positive that you are not ready to become a mother, go ahead and engage in the act that creates babies anyway.
我们这代年轻女性被告知:即使你还没准备好要孩子,即使你确定自己完全不想当母亲,也尽管去做那个制造婴儿的行为。
1802.51 - 1806.09
Just use some contraception and hope it works out.
只要使用避孕措施,然后祈祷有效就行。
1806.21 - 1813.17
Now, all too often, as, as way too many of my friends would find out the hard way, that contraception doesn't work out so well.
但正如太多朋友亲身经历发现的那样,避孕措施常常失败。
1813.17 - 1817.31
You know, actual use failure rates of contraception are abysmal.
我读到实际使用中的失败率高得惊人。
1817.31 - 1823.75
I read in the Guttmacher Institute, Planned Parenthood's research on This, this is coming from Planned Parenthood.
在古特马赫研究所和计划生育协会的研究中读到——这可是来自计划生育协会的数据。
1823.75 - 1843.23
I found this amazing stat that a woman taking a contraceptive with a 98% effectiveness rate has a 70% chance of experiencing an unexpected pregnancy if she uses that contraceptive method over 10 years.And this is what, what I saw as a young woman.
我发现一个惊人的数据:使用98%有效避孕措施的女性,十年内有70%的可能性经历意外怀孕。这就是我年轻时看到的现实。
1843.23 - 1852.41
I saw so many women who were, know, college-educated, intelligent, responsible young women, they were following everything society told them to do.
我看到许多受过大学教育、聪明负责的年轻女性,她们遵循社会告诉她们该做的事。
1852.41 - 1866.63
They were being responsible sexually, and then, you know, th- by using contraception, and then something goes wrong, something didn't work out, they end up with a positive pregnancy test, and they felt like they had no choice.
她们在性方面很负责,使用避孕措施,但出了差错,结果验孕棒显示怀孕了,她们觉得自己毫无选择。
1866.63 - 1870.45
I have known many women who ended up in abortion clinics.
我认识许多女性最终走进堕胎诊所。
1870.45 - 1874.51
Not one of them ever felt like she really had a choice.
她们中没有一个人真正觉得自己有选择。
1875.25 - 1892.89
And when I thought about what had happened here, it was because they had been sold this lie that you can and should and i- it's a good thing to engage in the act that creates babies even if you feel like you are not ready at all to have a baby.
当我思考这里发生的事,发现她们被灌输了一个谎言:即使你完全没准备好要孩子,去做制造婴儿的行为也是对的、有益的。
1892.89 - 1899.81
W- I, I realized, you know, what the Catholic Church teaches, it's difficult, it's inconvenient, but it's true.
我意识到公教会的教导虽然困难又不便,但却是真理。
1899.97 - 1907.13
And the Catholic Church was the only institution in the world that was willing to tell women the truth.
公教会是世界上唯一愿意告诉女性真相的机构。
1913.31 - 1919.37
So I read this encyclical, it's that's a, a document th- that a pope writes, i- by, by Pope Paul VI.
我读了这道通谕——这是教宗保禄六世写的文件。
1919.37 - 1922.85
It's called Humanae Vitae, which means on human life.
它被称为《人类生命通谕》,意思是关于人类生命。
1923.33 - 1927.89
This was written in the '60s, and he made some fascinating predictions.
这份通谕写于六十年代,教宗做出了一些惊人的预言。
1927.89 - 1933.81
First of all, he upheld the church's teaching that the Catholic Church is opposed to contraception.
首先他坚持教会反对避孕的教导。
1933.81 - 1939.33
And one thing that I didn't know is that every single Christian church was opposed to contraception.
我过去不知道的是,直到三十年代前,每个基督教教会都反对避孕。
1939.33 - 1944.25
This w- was very much a historical Christian stance until around the 1930s.
这是基督教历史上长期坚持的立场。
1944.25 - 1951.37
As public opinion started to change, all the other churches, most of the other churches changed their stance on this issue.
当公众意见开始转变,其他教会都改变了立场。
1951.37 - 1958.11
The Catholic Church was the only one that did not go back on this historical Christian teaching.
唯有公教会没有背弃这个历史性的基督教教导。
1958.15 - 1968.75
So, in On Human Life, this, this encyclical by Pope Paul VI, he made some predictions about what would happen if there was widespread acceptance of contraception.
在《人类生命通谕》里,教宗保禄六世预言了如果避孕被广泛接受会发生什么。
1968.75 - 1973.63
One of the things is that he suggested that the divorce rate would go up.
他指出离婚率会上升。
1973.63 - 1974.91
Everyone laughed at him.
所有人都嘲笑他。
1974.91 - 1976.81
They said, you know, Look at this, look at this pope.
他们说:『看看这位教宗吧。』
1976.81 - 1977.69
Get with the times.
跟上时代啊。
1977.69 - 1985.65
I mean, obviously, it's going to help marriages if couples can engage in marital intimacy and not have to worry about having too many kids.
显然,如果夫妻能亲密相处又不用担心孩子太多,婚姻会更稳固。
1985.89 - 1996.93
Well, sure enough, the divorce rate skyrocketed starting immediately after you started to see the laws and the, the public opinion become in favor of contraception.
果然,避孕合法化和公众支持度上升后,离婚率立刻飙升。
1997.21 - 2004.69
The other thing that Pope Paul VI said in, in On Human Life is that it would lead to the objectification of women.
教宗保禄六世在《人类生命通谕》里还预言这会导致女性物化。
2004.85 - 2021.59
And I had an interesting moment where I, I was sitting on my bed reading this On Human Life encyclical, and I had some women's magazines spread out in front of me, and I realized that every single one had the word sexy somewhere on the cover, sometimes more than once.
有天我坐在床上读这份通谕,面前摊着几本女性杂志,发现每本封面都印着『性感』这个词,有时还不止一次。
2021.71 - 2027.17
All of these articles were how t- how to please men sexually, how to be sexy.
这些文章全是教女性如何取悦男性、如何变得性感。
2027.17 - 2037.05
The women were dressed, you know, in unbelievably scantily clad, you know, showing off everything, and I thought, This isn't how my grandmothers dressed.
女性穿着暴露得惊人,袒胸露背,我心想:『我祖母辈可不是这么穿的。』
2037.05 - 2038.87
This isn't how my great-grandmothers dressed.
我曾祖母们更不会这么穿。
2038.87 - 2044.31
This is not how women have ever been encouraged to dress in human history.
人类历史上从未鼓励女性如此穿着。
2044.31 - 2054.13
And I had always bought into these ideas that, oh, that's 'cause women were repressed and, you know, that's it, it was an anti-woman thing that women didn't used to, you know, let it all hang out.
我过去一直相信这些观念:哦,女性过去被压抑,所以才不这么开放,这是反女性的。
2054.13 - 2064.03
And then I thought, You know, as a woman, I don't think I want to be told that wearing micro mini shorts and a, and a tube top is like how I should be dressing.
但后来我心想:作为女性,我不希望被告诉穿超短裤和露脐装是正确的穿着方式。
2064.03 - 2068.35
Like, I wish the standard of style was frankly a little more forgiving.
坦白说,我希望时尚标准能更宽容些。
2068.35 - 2080.81
I thought, This is actually very anti-woman, this, this new image of women, where we all have to have perfect bodies with not a flaw on them and wear these fashions where e- everything is just hanging out all the time.
我觉得这种新女性形象——要求所有女性拥有完美无瑕的身材、永远穿着暴露——其实才是反女性的。
2080.81 - 2086.19
And I thought, When did this style of dress change?
我开始思考:这种穿着风格何时改变的?
2086.19 - 2095.15
When did it go from women dressing in a, a fashionable but dignified manner to having to look like Stripper Barbie all the time?
女性何时从时尚又端庄的穿着,变成必须打扮得像芭比娃娃一样?
2095.37 - 2102.55
And I realized it was right around when our society accepted artificial contraception.
我意识到这正是社会接受人工避孕的时期。
2102.65 - 2119.37
And, and in Humanae Vitae, Pope Paul VI predicted back in the '60s, he said, If we accept artificial contraception, men will start to look at women as objects, women will start to feel pressure to make themselves objects for men.
在《人类生命通谕》里,教宗保禄六世六十年代就预言:『如果接受人工避孕,男性会开始把女性当物品,女性也会被迫把自己物化。』
2119.45 - 2127.47
And I looked from that encyclical to the magazines on my bed, and I realized it happened.
我从通谕抬头看着床上的杂志,意识到预言成真了。
2127.47 - 2128.57
He was right.
他确实说对了。
2135.13 - 2148.27
So, after I realized that what the Catholic Church teaches about abortion and contraception was not only true but the key to women's freedom, I went to my blog and I was telling everybody, Oh, isn't this amazing?
当我发现公教会关于堕胎和避孕的教导不仅真实,更是女性自由的关键时,我立刻在博客上告诉所有人:『太惊人了!』
2148.27 - 2151.37
Oh, it's there's this thing, it's called natural family planning.
有种东西叫自然避孕法,
2151.37 - 2152.45
You should all use it.
你们都该使用它。
2152.45 - 2158.65
And the Catholic Church has this thing called the theology of the body and you all need to be reading about it.
公教会还有种叫『身体神学』的教导,你们都该去读。
2158.65 - 2159.69
It's so beautiful.
太美了。
2159.69 - 2161.45
It's so amazing.
太棒了。
2161.77 - 2168.59
And I think God was up in heaven kind of laughing and saying, Watch what's gonna happen next.
我想神在天上笑着对天使说:『看看接下来会发生什么。』
2168.59 - 2177.53
So, I was pregnant with my second child and I ended up being diagnosed with a deep vein thrombosis, which is a blood clot in a major vein.
我怀第二胎时被诊断出深静脉血栓,这是一种大静脉血栓。
2177.77 - 2184.17
It turns out that the blood clot was caused by a genetic clotting disorder that I inherited from both parents.
这血栓源于我从父母双方遗传的凝血障碍。
2184.17 - 2189.89
It's very severe and, and it's also very rare that I would have both copies of the gene.
这种基因缺陷非常严重又罕见。
2190.01 - 2197.85
And this, uh, this clotting disorder is exacerbated by pregnancy, and it, it is because I was pregnant that I got the clot.
怀孕加剧了这种凝血障碍,正因怀孕我才出现血栓。
2198.09 - 2208.31
So I had all of these doctors, all of these medical professionals telling me that I absolutely had to go the route of sterilization or contraception.
所有医生都强烈建议我必须绝育或使用避孕措施。
2208.31 - 2218.93
So suddenly, the person who had been all rah-rah cheerleader for the church's teaching, uh, against contraception s- just became the poster child for contraception .
突然间,我这个曾为教会教导摇旗呐喊的人,成了支持避孕的典型例子。
2218.93 - 2222.13
And one of my doctors sat down with me.
有位医生坐下来和我谈话。
2222.13 - 2223.51
I wasn't even Catholic yet.
那时我甚至还没成为公教徒。
2223.51 - 2236.89
I, I just, I said, I'm not gonna be able to go the route of sterilization or even contraception because I'm reading about Catholicism, which was the weakest proclamation of faith ever.
我说:『我不会选择绝育或避孕,因为我正在研究公教,这是史上最弱的信仰宣告。』
2237.11 - 2243.71
And, and this doctor looked down at my chart, and he looked at me, and he said, You're insane.
医生看着我的病历,对我说:『你疯了吗?』
2244.07 - 2245.03
You can't do this.
你不能这么做。
2245.03 - 2251.99
You're the exception, and if this Church tells you that you can't use artificial contraception, then, then it is oppressive.
你是个例外,如果教会告诉你不能使用人工避孕,那它就是压迫的。
2251.99 - 2253.73
It is, it is dangerous to your health.
这对你的健康很危险。
2253.73 - 2264.65
You are the exception, is what I heard over and over again, and it forced me to face the question, do these rules really matter?
我反复听到『你是个例外』,这迫使我去面对:这些规则真的重要吗?
2264.65 - 2270.75
I mean, couldn't I be Catholic and just kind of blow off the ones that I don't like?
难道我不能成为公教徒,然后忽略我不喜欢的那些教导吗?
2270.75 - 2276.63
And, and it, and it also made me realize, how much do I believe this is true?
这也让我意识到:我到底多相信这些教导是真实的?
2276.91 - 2282.93
Do I believe that this is true enough to turn my whole life upside down?
我是否相信这真实到足以颠覆我的整个生活?
2282.93 - 2287.89
I had quite a few people say to me, Just become Catholic, but don't follow that one thing.
很多人对我说:『你成为公教徒吧,但那条规定可以不遵守。』
2287.89 - 2289.53
You know, you're the exception.
『你是例外啊。』
2289.95 - 2298.13
But I realized that the whole theory behind this Church is that its teachings are guided by God.
但我意识到这教会的整个理论基础是其教导由神引导。
2298.13 - 2306.67
The whole idea is that, just like with the writers of the Bible, God is using imperfect people to convey perfect truth.
就像圣经作者一样,神使用不完美的人传达完美真理。
2306.67 - 2314.11
And so to say that you know better than the Church on this or any issue is to say that you know better than God.
因此,如果你认为自己比教会更懂这个问题,就等于认为自己比神更懂。
2314.39 - 2322.85
Uh, so if it turned out that this was, that this teaching is wrong and that it's bad and that it's not from God, then, then that means that this Church isn't guided by God.
如果这教导被证明是错误的、有害的、并非来自神,那就意味着这教会并非由神引导。
2322.85 - 2334.15
And if it's not guided by God, then there's no need to listen to anything it says, starting with its claim that it chose the correct books for the canon of the Bible.
如果它并非由神引导,那它说的任何话都不值得听,包括它声称自己为圣经选对了正典书籍。
2334.15 - 2341.69
But if it is guided by God, then to say that you know better than the Church is to say that you know better than God.
但如果它确实由神引导,那认为自己比教会更懂就等于比神更懂。
2342.93 - 2346.59
And so I was put in this position where I had to ask this question.
因此我处于这种处境,必须提出这个问题。
2346.59 - 2350.07
These rules are going to turn my life upside down.
这些规则将彻底颠覆我的生活。
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They're, they're going to be so difficult, but, you know, based on my, this atheist , you know, truth-seeking upbringing, I came back to the fundamental question of my life, which was, but is it true?
它们会非常困难,但基于我的无神论背景和追求真理的成长经历,我回到人生的根本问题:『但这是真的吗?』
2365.03 - 2371.13
And, and what I came to see is that not only was it true, but, but that it was, it was in fact good.
我逐渐明白,不仅真实,而且实际上是有益的。
2371.13 - 2381.99
In order to treat the clot that I had, I had to take an FDA category X drug, 90% chance of serious birth defects if you conceive while you're on this medication.
为治疗血栓,我必须服用FDA X类药物,服药期间怀孕有90%的严重出生缺陷风险。
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And I had to be on it for months.
我必须连续服用数月。
2384.07 - 2387.21
And so of course everyone said, You have to use contraception.
所以当然所有人都说:『你必须使用避孕措施。』
2387.21 - 2388.45
You have to.
『你必须这么做。』
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And I was even beginning to think, Maybe this Church's teachings are bad.
我甚至开始想:『也许这教会的教导是错误的。』
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Maybe they do really mess up people's lives.
『也许它们真的会搞砸人们的生活。』
2395.77 - 2411.13
So I was looking around, Googling things like Catholic and the name of the drug and, and contraception, and I found a forum where a woman who was Catholic was, uh, on the same drug that I was on, and everyone told her, you know, Ignore that bad church.
于是我四处搜索,输入『公教』、药物名和『避孕』,找到一个论坛,一位公教徒女性和我服用同样的药物,大家劝她:『别理会那个坏教会。』
2411.13 - 2412.39
It's, it's keeping you down.
『它在压制你。』
2412.39 - 2414.01
Don't you know it's anti-woman?
『难道你不知道它反女性吗?』
2414.01 - 2415.61
Come on, go use contraception.
『快去使用避孕措施吧。』
2415.61 - 2416.97
Get with the times.
『跟上时代。』
2416.97 - 2421.91
So she did, and there was a post on the, on the forum a few months later.
她照做了,几个月后论坛上出现一个帖子。
2421.95 - 2434.87
Her contraception failed, as it so often does, and she found herself facing a positive pregnancy test while she was on this medication that has, again, 90% chance of severe birth defects.
她的避孕失败了,正如常发生的那样,在服用这药物期间怀孕了,有90%的严重出生缺陷风险。
2435.43 - 2441.59
And I realized how close I had come to being in that same situation.
我意识到自己差点也陷入同样的处境。
2441.59 - 2459.61
No contraceptive method is 100%, and if you're really in a position where it is severely dangerous to, to your baby or to your health not to have a baby, the only way to avoid that is not to engage in the act that creates babies.
没有任何避孕方法百分之百可靠,如果你的情况是不生孩子对宝宝或你的健康极度危险,唯一避免方法就是不去做那个制造婴儿的行为。
2459.61 - 2461.69
And it's totally inconvenient.
这确实极不方便。
2461.69 - 2471.33
It's, nobody wants to hear that, but it's true, and the Catholic Church was the only institution that was willing to tell people that.
没人愿意听,但这是事实,只有公教会愿意告诉人们这点。
2477.61 - 2507.33
So once I realized that what the Church teaches about contraception and, and openness to life and using natural methods of, of pregnancy spacing was, was good and was true and was the key to women's freedom, when I went back to my doctors, and I said that I was not willing to use artificial contraception, and in fact, I had done my own research and had become convinced that there were ways to safely manage a pregnancy, and I, I might want to have future pregnancies Not, not that I had to as a Catholic.
当我意识到教会关于避孕、开放生命和使用自然生育间隔的教导是正确且真实的,是女性自由的关键时,我回到医生那里,表示不愿使用人工避孕措施,事实上我已自行研究,确信有安全应对怀孕的方法,我可能想要未来的怀孕——并非因为作为公教徒必须这么做。
2507.33 - 2522.99
It's, it's important that people understand you don't have to have a bunch of kids, you know, if, if you're Catholic, but I, I wanted to, and I had done my own research as part of exploring what the Church teaches, and I came to see that there are ways to manage this condition.
我必须让你们明白,成为公教徒并不意味着必须生一大堆孩子,但我自己研究教会教导后,确信有办法管理这种情况。
2522.99 - 2536.61
And suddenly these same doctors who had said, d- done all this doom and gloom prophesying about what would happen if I were to have another pregnancy, they said, Oh, yeah, you just have to take this medication and, you know, it'll actually probably be fine.
那些曾预言如果再次怀孕将灾难重重的医生们突然说:『哦,对,你只需服用这药物,实际上可能没问题。』
2536.61 - 2545.03
And, and what I found is that there are often many more gray areas in these kind of medical diagnoses than we're told about.
我发现这类医学诊断中存在许多未被告知的灰区。
2545.03 - 2549.55
I, I think that my doctors, to their credit, were scared about what may, might happen.
值得肯定的是,医生们确实担心可能发生的事。
2549.55 - 2557.33
They were worried about risk of liability, and so they were pushing me towards the, from their perspective, cleanest, easiest option.
他们担心法律责任风险,所以从他们的角度看,推我走向最干净、最简单的选项。
2557.33 - 2561.29
But when I came to them and said, I don't want to go this route.
但当我告诉他们:『我不愿走这条路。』
2561.29 - 2596.57
I'm not comfortable with it for a lot of reasons, I found that they were actually quite willing to work with me and willing to talk to me about some alternative methods of treatment that I had not been told about before when 'Cause contraception was just the easiest answer.What I found about using natural family planning instead of artificial contraception for child spacing is it's really more of an alternative lifestyle than, than an alternative to contraception.
我发现使用自然避孕法而非人工避孕来安排生育,这更像是一种替代生活方式,而非避孕的替代方案。
2596.57 - 2598.49
It is completely effective.
它完全有效。
2598.49 - 2615.05
There are these wonderful modern methods that have sometimes an even higher effectiveness rate than artificial contraception, but it's a mistake to see it as an alternative to that, because it requires that you approach human sexuality from an entirely different perspective.
现代自然避孕法有时甚至比人工避孕更有效,但将其视为避孕的替代方案是错误的,因为这要求你从完全不同的视角看待人类性行为。
2615.05 - 2619.63
It is a sacrifice-based method of child spacing.
这是一种基于牺牲的生育间隔方法。
2619.63 - 2628.25
You don't get to do whatever you want, you know, whenever you want, and that is the big difference between natural family planning and contraception.
你不能随心所欲地做想做的事,这正是自然避孕法和人工避孕的最大区别。
2628.25 - 2635.89
Sometimes people ask is, Well, if, if natural family planning is so effective, then isn't it just the same thing as contraception?
有时人们会问:『如果自然避孕法如此有效,那它和避孕不就是同样东西吗?』
2635.89 - 2641.91
And my answer to that is always, Well, if it's the exact same thing, then why aren't you using it?
我的回答总是:『如果完全一样,那你们为何不用?』
2641.91 - 2643.41
Because it's cheaper.
『因为更便宜。』
2643.41 - 2646.65
It, it avoids embarrassment in the grocery store checkout.
『在杂货店结账时避免尴尬。』
2646.65 - 2658.13
And, and I think that when we explore that question of if it's the same thing, why aren't people using it, you see that it's because it requires sacrifice that makes it so different.
我认为探讨这个问题:『如果是一样的,为何人们不用?』就会发现是因为它要求的牺牲使它如此不同。
2658.13 - 2669.91
And what I saw c- you know, coming from my background, is that a society only respects human life to the extent that it respects the act that creates human life.
出身背景让我明白:社会只有在尊重创造人类生命的行为时,才会尊重人类生命。
2669.95 - 2687.65
And, and that's why this sacrifice-based system makes so much sense, this system that calls for every single person, single or married, no matter who they're attracted to, every single person is called to make sacrifices in the name of respecting human life.
因此这个基于牺牲的体系很有道理,这体系要求每个人,无论单身或已婚,无论被谁吸引,都必须为尊重人类生命而做出牺牲。
2694.19 - 2698.91
When people ask me, Why would anyone become Catholic?
当人们问我:『为何有人要成为公教徒?』
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there are two sides of me that want to answer.
我内心两面都想回答。
2702.71 - 2710.05
One is the old atheist side that has a very simple answer that just says, Because it's true.
一面是旧无神论的我,答案很简单:『因为这是真的。』
2711.67 - 2725.75
And then there's the other side of me that, the sort of fun-loving side, that says, Because being Catholic is the most full experience of the human life.
另一面是我爱玩乐的我,会说:『因为成为公教徒是人类生命最完整的体验。』
2726.19 - 2734.51
Sometimes people ask me if my life is better or worse now that I'm Catholic, and I, I never knew how to answer the question.
有时人们问我:『成为公教徒后,生活更好或更糟了吗?』我从不知如何回答。
2734.51 - 2739.07
And eventually, I came to see that that's because it, it was the wrong question.
最终我明白,这是因为问题本身是错误的。
2739.07 - 2744.57
It's, it, it's not that my life is better or worse now that I'm Catholic.
成为公教徒后,生活并非更好或更糟。
2745.07 - 2748.13
My life has started now that I'm Catholic.
而是成为公教徒后,我的生命才真正开始。