Transcript
9.04-17.54
I used to think it was strange when I was learning about the Catholic Church that Catholics pray to the saints, they pray to Mary.
以前我在了解公教会的时候,总觉得很奇怪:公教徒会向圣徒祈祷,也会向马利亚祈祷。
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And I didn't really understand the need to pray to anyone other than Jesus.
我也不太明白,为什么除了耶稣以外还需要向别人祈祷。
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One of the hardest topics to really come to an understanding of as I was converting to Catholicism was the Catholic devotion to Mary.
在我归信公教的过程中,最难真正理解的主题之一,就是公教对马利亚的敬奉。
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As a Protestant, we didn't really spend much time learning about Mary.
在新教里,我们并不会花多少时间去认识马利亚。
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We would trot her out every year at the Christmas pageant, but that's all we really, uh, did to interact with her, and I didn't understand why Catholics paid so much attention to her.
每年圣诞话剧我们会把她「搬出来」,但基本上,呃,这就是我们和她所有的接触了;我不明白为什么公教徒那么重视她。
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And because I couldn't find all of her dogmas that we believe as Catholics rooted in scripture, it, it puzzled me.
而且,因为我找不到我们作为公教徒所相信的那些关于她的教义都扎根在圣经里的依据,这,这让我很困惑。
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And so, it took me a very long time to come to a devotion to Mary.
所以,我花了很长时间才慢慢建立起对马利亚的敬奉。
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So, Mary.
那么,马利亚。
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This was a really big deal to me, because I knew that becoming Catholic meant accepting the teachings of the Church.
这对我来说真的很重要,因为我知道,成为公教徒就意味着要接受教会的教导。
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And I w- was very interested in learning about Mary, but not at all sure that I was going to be able to really believe what the Church teaches about Mary.
我当时也很想更多认识马利亚,可我完全不确定自己能不能真的相信教会关于马利亚的教导。
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And so, when I, I called one of my Catholic friends who had formerly been Protestant, and he said, and it was good advice, Just give it time.
所以,当时我、我打电话给一位从前是新教徒的公教朋友,他给了我一个很好的建议:『给自己一些时间。』
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Just think of her as a friend.
就把她当作一个朋友。
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So after, um, a night at, um, at church, um, after attending RCIA, um, Ivan and I were driving home, and he had a question about Mary.
所以,呃,在教会度过一个晚上、呃,上完RCIA之后,呃,我和伊凡开车回家,他问了一个关于马利亚的问题。
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He made a comment that, you know, Do we worship Mary?
他提到,你知道的:『我们是在敬拜马利亚吗?』
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Um, and for me, it was to have him understand that we, we don't worship Mary.
呃,而对我来说,就是要让他明白,我们、我们不敬拜马利亚。
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However, we do honor our Blessed Mother.
不过,我们确实敬奉我们的母亲马利亚。
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Um, she, she holds an important, um, piece of our heart.
呃,她、她在我们心里占有很重要的地位。
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Um, while we do only, uh, worship God alone, we do honor her, and we do pray to her, and, um, and, and see, um, her as a guidance to, in our lives.
呃,虽然我们只、呃、只敬拜神,但我们会敬奉她,也会向她祈祷,呃,而且、而且把她看作我们生命里的引导。
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My mother was a saintly woman, and I think it was my relationship with her growing up that prepared me for a relationship with Mary, our Mother, our Lady.
我的母亲是个很敬虔的女人,我想,正是我从小和她的关系,让我预备好与我们的母亲马利亚建立关系。
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But I finally came to understand, uh, among other things, that on the cross, when Jesus had the, the most difficult time, painful, excruciating moment of his life, loved his mother enough to give her into the care of Saint John, his disciple.
但我最后明白了,呃,其中之一就是,在十字架上,耶稣正处在他一生中最艰难、痛苦万分的时刻,他仍然那么爱他的母亲,把她托付给他的门徒圣约翰照料。
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And then, to go beyond that and to, to say to John that This is your mother, I realized there was something profound in that.
然后,他更进一步,对约翰说:『这是你的母亲。』我意识到这里面有很深的意义。
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So many other things he could've talked about.
他本可以说很多别的话。
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The, the pain could've pressed him in so many directions or even left him silent.
那、那样的痛苦本可以把他逼向很多别的方向,甚至让他沉默不语。
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But instead, he, he loved his mother so much and cared for her that he gave her into his, to John's keeping.
可他却、却那么爱他的母亲、关心她,把她交托给约翰照料。
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But he loved John so much that he gave John a mother, his mother.
他也那么爱约翰,以至于把一位母亲赐给约翰——就是他的母亲。
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And I came to realize as, the Catholic Church teaches, that in giving her to John, he gave her to the whole Church as a spiritual mother.
我也明白了,正如公教会所教导的,耶稣把她交给约翰的时候,也把她赐给整个教会,作为属灵的母亲。
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Growing up, I heard my grandparents and also friends, um, other, other kids I was in school with, refer to Catholics as Mary worshipers, and it was confusing to me.
我从小听祖父母、还有朋友,呃,学校里的其他孩子,把公教徒称作『敬拜马利亚的人』,这让我很困惑。
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Um, however, um, going through the RCIA process, I learned that while worship is reserved for God alone, it makes perfect sense that Jesus would place his mother on a very high pedestal.
呃,不过,呃,在RCIA的过程中,我了解到,敬拜只归给神;而耶稣把他的母亲放在一个很崇高的地位上,是非常合情合理的。
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Um, she's someone that we can look up to, that we can ask for help, and I do on a daily basis.
呃,她是我们可以仰望、可以求助的人,而我每天都这样做。
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Um, she helps me as a Catholic mother.
呃,作为一位公教的母亲,她帮助我。
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Um, I'm constantly knocking on her door asking, um, for her intercession.
呃,我常常去「敲她的门」,求她为我代祷。
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And as the mother of Jesus, she's got the most direct line to him.
而且,作为耶稣的母亲,她和他有最直接的联系。
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Um, so I call on her regularly.
呃,所以我常常求助于她。
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Um, and a friend once told me when I was, when I was trying to discern my way through this topic, she said, You're not praying to the saint, like you're praying to Jesus.
呃,有一次当我还在分辨这个问题的时候,一位朋友对我说:「你不是像向耶稣那样去向圣徒祈祷。」
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You're asking the saint, you're asking Mary, to pray for you, to pro- to, to help you, to intercede for you, um, in whatever difficult time, whatever, whatever your intention is at that time, to help you get through that.
「你是在请那位圣徒、请马利亚为你祈祷、帮助你、为你代求。无论你当时遇到什么难处、有什么意向,就是请她帮助你度过。」
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So, in- that clicked for me in a way, because it, I wouldn't think twice about asking my next door neighbor, Please pray for me.
所以,这在某种意义上让我突然开窍了,因为我要是请隔壁邻居『请为我祷告』,我一点都不会犹豫。
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Um, I'm sick, or, My husband's sick, or, My husband's having difficulties with this.
「呃,我生病了,或者,我先生生病了,或者,我先生在这件事上很困难。」
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Please pray for us.
「请为我们祷告。」
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You're asking the saint to pray for you in the exact same way.
你请圣徒为你祷告,方式完全一样。
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And they're in Heaven with God, and they were on Earth and struggled through the same things as, as we do here now.
他们在天上与神同在;当年在世的时候,也经历过和我们现在一样的挣扎。
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And, um, in a way, it's just really cool to acknowledge that, that once someone passes away, they're not gone from this world forever.
而且,呃,从某种意义上说,承认这一点真的很让人安慰:一个人去世以后,并不是永远从这个世界消失了。
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They're, they're in Heaven, and they, they want to work on our behalf.
他们在天上,而且他们愿意为我们代求、帮助我们。
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What I did when I was in RCIA is begin praying the rosary every day.
我在RCIA的时候,开始每天念玫瑰经。
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I thought that as I if I would spend time meditating on the mysteries of the life of our Lord and of Our Lady, I would eventually come to understand her better, and that's exactly what happened.
我想,如果我花时间默想我们的主和我们的母亲生命里的奥秘,我最终会更了解她;结果确实如此。
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In the course of about a year, or a year and a half, I, I began to find myself more readily turning to her in times of need.
大约一年到一年半的时间里,我发觉自己在需要的时候更容易转向她。
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And as a Catholic, I, I turned to her every single day.
作为一个公教徒,我每天都会转向她。
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Several years ago, I made a consecration, a 33-day consecration to Our Lady, using a formula developed by Saint Louis de Montfort, one of the great Marian saints of our Church, and it changed my life.
几年前,我做了一个奉献,连续33天奉献给我们的母亲马利亚,采用的是我们教会中重要的圣母圣人之一——圣路易·德·孟福尔制定的方式。这改变了我的人生。
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It changed the way that I not only look at Mary, but also how I relate to her.
它不仅改变了我看待马利亚的方式,也改变了我与她相处的方式。
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and I feel her presence.
我能感到她的同在。
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I know that she's with me.
我知道她与我同在。
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I know that I can turn to her with any need and that she's going to be there to help me.
我知道无论有什么需要,我都可以转向她,她都会在那里帮助我。
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Yeah, I think, I think, uh, it's, it's very interesting because when I think about Mary, uh, it's the mother of God, and it's really, it's the, shows us this kind of more soft, uh, side of the church where, you know, the motherly love to, you know, to, to the children and, and we're, we're really a part of it.
嗯,我觉得、我觉得,呃,这很有意思。因为当我想到马利亚——她是神的母亲——这真的让我们看见教会更温柔的一面,就是那种对儿女的母爱,而我们真的就是其中的一分子。
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And that really makes me think that You know, when I, when I think about Mary, I think about how my mom treats me, how my mom think about me.
这真的让我想到,你知道,当我想到马利亚时,我也会想到我妈妈怎么对我、怎么想着我。
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Um, all the love that she had for me.
呃,她对我所有的爱。
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No matter what I did, she would always love me.
不管我做了什么,她都会一直爱我。
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And I think that really applies in the church and, and that's, that, you know, with Maya's explanation, it just makes me understand that a lot, a lot better.
我觉得这在教会里真的说得通。再加上玛雅的解释,就让我明白得更好。
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Uh, yeah, we do not worship Mary, but we honor her and, and we share the love that she has, uh, with Jesus and the love that she has for us.
嗯,对,我们不敬拜马利亚,但我们尊敬她;而且我们也分享她与耶稣之间的爱,以及她对我们的爱。
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We often ask, um, our friends to help us, um, to pray for us, to intercede for us in a difficult situation.
我们常常会请朋友帮忙,呃,为我们祷告、在困难的时候为我们代求。
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And when I realize that it's the exact same thing, um, with the saints.
当我意识到,对圣徒也是完全一样的,呃,我就明白了。
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That you can talk to them, you can ask them to help you, to intercede for you, to pray for you, to go to Jesus on your behalf and, and ask him.
你可以和他们说话,可以请他们帮助你、为你代求、为你祷告,代表你到耶稣那里去求问他。
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They have a direct line.
他们和耶稣有直接的联系。
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Um, we're sinful, we're broken, we're fallen, um, but they've made it, right?
呃,我们有罪、破碎、堕落,呃,但他们已经达成了目标,对吧?
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Our goal is to get to heaven and they're there already.
我们的目标是到天上,而他们已经在那里了。
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I love St. Therese of Lisieux.
我很喜欢里修的圣德兰。
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Um, she, she's a doctor of the church and her, she taught her little way.
呃,她、她是教会的圣师,她提出了她的「小德之路」。
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Small sacrifices, little acts of love, um, that was her path to heaven.
小小的牺牲、微小的爱的行动,呃,那就是她通往天上的道路。
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And that's something that I can really connect with.
这让我很有共鸣。
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It's something, um, that I feel is attainable for me.
我觉得,呃,那是我能够做得到的。
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You know, the big grandiose, you know, make it to heaven, and that is the goal, right?
你知道,那种很宏大的目标——要到天上去——这当然是我们的目标,对吧?
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But what do you do?
但你该怎么做呢?
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How do you get there along the way?
那一路上该怎么走才能到达呢?
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And St. Therese says, you know, Just make small sacrifices every day.
里修的圣德兰说,你知道的:「每天做些小小的牺牲就好。」
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Do little things, little acts of love, little acts of kindness.
做一些小事、小小的爱的行动、小小的善行。
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That's something that I can, that's something I can do in, in the c- chaos of my life with my 12 children and running here, there, and yon, and all of the activities.
这就是我能做的;在我带着12个孩子、到处奔波、活动一大堆的混乱生活里,这些是我做得到的。
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Um, I can still find time to make those small sacrifices, those small acts.
呃,我还是能挤出时间去做那些小小的牺牲、那些小行动。
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And she became that mother to me.
然后她就成了我的那位母亲。
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And, and something of the, the sweetness, I can only say the sweetness, that I, I feel spiritually when I think of my own mother and her saintliness.
而且,当我想到我自己的母亲和她的圣德时,我心里会感到一种甜美——我只能这么说,甜美。
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But that same sweetness I find in, in Mary, our mother.
而同样的甜美,我在我们的母亲马利亚身上也找到了。
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And that she has, has come to mean so much to me because I realized that the, the sweetness, the saintliness in my own mother was in many ways just an echo of what we find in the mother of our Lord Jesus.
所以她对我意义重大,因为我意识到,我自己母亲身上的那份甜美和圣德,在很多方面只是我们在我们主耶稣的母亲身上所看到的一种回响。
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When I started pursuing a relationship with Mary, I had to draw on faith.
当我开始寻求与马利亚建立关系时,我必须凭着信心。
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And what I heard a Catholic teacher say was, Faith is a, an act of your will.
我听一位公教的老师说过:「信心是你意志的一个行动。」
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It's a decision.
「是一种决定。」
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It is not an emotion.
「不是一种情绪。」
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And I really couldn't drum up emotions for Mary.
而我确实无法对马利亚激起什么情感。
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Because I was Protestant.
因为我是新教徒。
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We don't know Mary in, as Protestants.
作为新教徒,我们并不认识马利亚。
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She's the mother of Jesus and that's great at Christmastime, but otherwise we don't know her.
她是耶稣的母亲,在圣诞节这很好,但除此之外我们并不认识她。
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Most of what we know about her is that the Catholics worship her.
我们对她的大多数印象就是:公教徒敬拜她。
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So I made a decision in faith because I trusted, my trust in the church was growing.
所以我凭着信心做了一个决定,因为我对公教会的信任在不断增长。
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And I thought, Okay, I'm going to go for this.
我心里想:「好吧,我要试一试。」
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I truly made a decision, I'm gonna go, I'm going to seek to understand and know Mary.
我真的下了决定:我要行动起来,去寻求、去明白、去认识马利亚。
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And that was the best decision I could've made because once I let my guard down, I discovered how much I had always needed Mary as a mother.
事实证明那是我能做的最好的决定,因为一旦我放下防备,我就发现自己一直多么需要作为母亲的马利亚。
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And so getting to know her has been wonderful and comforting and daily and just profound.
所以,认识她这件事既美好又安慰,是每天都在进行的,而且非常深刻。
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And, um, now I can't imagine not having Mary.
而且,呃,现在我已经无法想象没有马利亚。
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And I'm just moving forward in that and really grateful.
我会在这条路上继续前行,心里非常感恩。
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It's another wonderful gift of the church.
这是教会赐给我们的另一份美好礼物。