Transcript

Recently, I was invited onto Inspiring Philosophies channel to debunk gay revisionist Christian theology and history, and during the episode, the viewers were able to ask me anything.

So, I thought I would share some of those questions and answers with you.

But thank you guys so much for watching.

Be sure to check out Inspiring Philosophies' channel.

Michael Jones, the host of the channel, does a lot of great work there.

And please don't forget to like this video and subscribe to our channel.

Thank you, Trent.

I'm a Protestant currently getting ready to start RCIA. You have been a huge help for my return home.

Well, that's great.

Oh.

Praise to God.

Yeah, appreciate that.

As a supporter of both you and Trent, I just hope Mike Winger has no problem with you talking to Trent.

Mi- Mike Winger is not my boss.

I don't know Such a shame Mike Winger is anti-Catholic.

Yeah, I think that's a shame.

Well-

I- I- I- I don't take that route at all.

Well, a- and I don't mind, um I don't even know if I would call Mike anti-Catholic.

Uh, I would say he's a critic of Catholicism.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, and I don't mind if someone is a critic of what I believe because, you know, that's If you don't agree and you think it's false, you'll make criticisms.

That's fine.

Uh, I- I have I- I think I have a good working relationship with Gavin Ortlund, for example.

We've worked side by side.

We've had a- a- a formal debate.

We- I've been on his show.

We talked about baptism.

Uh, you know, we- I'd be happy to enga- I'll probably have him back on my show to talk about Catholicism again.

Hmm.

Uh, what's- what's more interesting is I now would be happy to chat with Mike about it, that I, um, replied to many of his videos he made years ago.

I might That was back when I had my most o- old school YouTube setup to reply to his videos, and then he made a- a reply to me accusing me of- of misrepresenting him and, uh And I just think it's best when two people can just sit across from each other to settle accusations and clear the air, and- and I'm up for it if he ever is.

So all's in his court.

I'd love to host it, so you know, whatever happens-

Sure, yeah.

you know?

Yeah.

Uh, Hey there.

As a Catholic, I've heard some conflicting things on speaking to those outside the faith.

Trent, am I supposed to not correct those in the faith, and am I supposed to not tell those who don't believe about sin?

Uh, yeah, I'm not sure what the person is referring to but, um, admonishing, uh, correct- you know, teaching the ignorant, admonishing, correcting them is, um, you know, that's a spiritual work of- of mercy.

Uh, it should be done with care.

It should be done with charity towards those one is correcting.

But there's nothing in the faith that says that you ought not admonish, correct those.

The Book of Proverbs says to rescue those who are being dragged to death.

Um, so I probably need a little bit more specifics where I could comment further on that.

Trent, please come on David Wood's channel and forcibly baptize Apostate Prophet so we can finally get him on the team.

Now, that'd be a nice quick way to an invalid baptism.

Aquinas settled that one 800- 800 years ago, uh, that you- that those are definitely not valid.

But- but did Aquinas consider baptism by SuperSoaker?

Well, if I was Jimmy Akin, I'm sure Jimmy would be like, Well, actually And he could come up with something.

Uh, I would Yeah, I would say Oh, I don't even want to get into that 'cause some people did do that during COVID and that's just ridiculous.

But-

It was-

as long as the water hit-

very ridiculous.

As long as the water hits the head and you use the formula, it could be valid, but I don't wanna get- even go down that road anymore.

I agree.

Only just got here, but already seems like too long of a video when you could just say 'No LOL.' God bless, peeps.

Yeah, I mean, but I- I wanted to do this stream because I wanted to talk about this idea that w- I- I hit on multiple times here-

Yeah.

which is that stop accusing men who are really good friends of being gay, 'cause that's damaging and harmful in ways.

And so-

Right.

that took a little bit more to say, you know.

Any prayer requests?

Also, if you want, we have an ecumenical prayer service or server with morning and evening prayers.

Last time I put your request there.

Um, yeah, much appreciated.

Um, yeah, just pray for ministry funding.

We're trying to grow and hire some people, so that's what we're working on.

Also, pray for the salvation of Apostate Prophet since he's been mentioned here.

I think that would be good.

His wife, she- I think just became Orthodox, so that's- praise God for that.

Oh, wow.

That's great.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's awesome.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but it seems the West has aggressively pushed for the LGBT cult over the past decades due to the false belief that says no to LGBT is equivalent to being a Nazi or a racist.

Yeah, it- we- we do see a lot of that rhetoric, this idea that if you- if you disagree you're homophobic, you're a racist, you're a Nazi.

And like- it's like, dude, I can disagree with LGBTQ lifestyles-

Yeah.

and still consider them loved by God and humans worthy of rights and equality and these kinds of things.

I- I- it-

Yeah, it- it conflates a illegitimate criticism of the L- of LGBT ideology, violent- violent acts, um, malicious hatred, uh, even spreading lies about the LGBT community.

Uh, those are things that are common with other kinds of acts of discrimination like racism, what the Nazis did to the Jews and to other marginalized groups.

Uh, so- but just because a group can be treated poorly and has been treated poorly, it doesn't follow that everything the group believes is true or good or worthy of celebrating, that one could also There's- there's illegitimate, uh, criticism but- you know, illegitimate acts towards others, but there's also legitimate forms of criticism and legitimate curtailing of, uh, what a group may do.

So for example, the catechism of the Catholic Church, it speaks about every- it says every sign of unjust discrimination must not be, uh, levied against those who have same sex attraction.

Uh, but not- but just discrimination, like a Catholic school should not hire somebody who's in a so-called same sex marriage because the kids in the class think, Oh, I guess it must not be so bad if Mr. Smith is married to, Frank.

Right.

And he teaches math at a Catholic school.

Couldn't be that bad.

Just like, you know, if you hired a guy And th- there have been Catholic schools that have fired people for posting on white supremacist, uh, forums.

Mm-hmm.

Because they would say, Yeah, you can't have a, a white, a racist white supremacist at the school.

And th- the, the kids didn't even know, but if they knew, I guess it must not be that bad because-

Right.

you know, Mr. Black, who is, you know, is a racist or what, what have you, uh, I guess he works here, so it couldn't be that bad.

It's the same principle.

Exactly.

Non-dumb Christian here, so Baptist.

No, I'm just kidding.

Uh, but love both of your content.

Hey IP, your sources are great.

The books are easy to find, but what about the studies?

Studies seem impossible to find.

Where do you get yours?

Yeah, good question.

Everywhere.

I mean, JSTOR I use.

Sometimes I'll use Google Scholar.

Uh, I mean, like sometimes A good thing to do is if you find a good study, sometimes you can see on the website o- other papers that cited it that came later.

I'll look at that.

Or you look at the sources in a paper.

That's where I got a ton of the studies for my video I did recently, How Christianity Changed the World.

And I just went through all the missionaries that have just made the world better through education.

And, you know, these were not just opinion pieces.

These were robust studies that were performed on missionary activities.

So-

Right.

try that kind of thing.

I mean, but again, I, I, s- look, it's hard sometimes.

You just gotta look.

It's, you know Are there any good scholarly resources on the topic of the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist?

I appreciate both of your ministries.

Yeah.

So there, I mean, there's Brant Petrie's book, Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist.

Mm-hmm.

There is a recent book on the Eucharist.

I wanna say his name was Brett Salkeld.

I, I have to look that up.

But he did.

There was a recent scholarly treatment of the doctrine of transubstantiation.

Uh, but it's, it's not coming to me.

Oh, wait, actually, yeah.

Brett Salkeld, uh, Transubstantiation: Theology, History and Christian Unity.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, so that's probably a very recent, uh, academic treatment of the subject.

Just tuned in.

How do you respond to the idea that homosexuality was only condemned in the context of pagan rituals or practice?

Sorry if I missed the response.

Um, I don't think it really is in, in places like 1 Corinthians 6, for example.

No.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's same in the Old Testament.

Like in the Old Testament, you have like the Hebrew, you had the cultic prostitutes, the, the Qadoshim.

But in the Levitical prohibitions and the Holiness Code, uh, the Qadoshim are not mentioned there.

It's not mentioned in the cultic practice.

Uh, similar in Romans 1. It's, while it mentions idolatry, this isn't saying, Oh, this is just a pagan cultic practice.

Paul's point in Romans 1 is that, hey, you know, his interlocutors will say, How can you judge the Gentiles?

They didn't have the Old Testament.

They didn't have the Torah.

And Paul says, They'll be judged because they had the law written on their hearts that even anybody with a brain can figure out that a creature is not the creator, don't give what's due to creatures due to the creator, idolatry-

Mm-hmm.

and, uh, men's genitals aren't meant to go into men's other orifices.

They're meant to go in women's.

Anybody can figure out the natural order, don't exchange that.

Don't exchange creature, creator for creature, don't exchange women for men or men for women.

Uh, th- but yeah, same with 1 Corinthians 6, 1 Timothy 1, there, there is no pagan ritual element there.

David loved Jonathan and is the biblical equivalent of Liu Bei's brotherly bond with two of his sword brothers, Guan Yu and Zhang Fei.

Nothing sexual.

Yeah, I did a reply to a ELCA pastor, so Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, who was trying to argue they were instantly.

Nothing there either.

They're not gay.

Yeah.

No.

Uh, Mike and Trent, love my brothers in Christ.

Thank you for the Super Chat.

Amen.

Thank you for the Super Sticker.

Much appreciated.

Uh, people of same sex touching each other is seen as completely normal and not as sexual in the culture of the Far East.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It, it's a Western idea.

Tom Holland talks a little bit about it, how like the hyper romantic- romantization of everything comes out of like secularization, leaving Christian culture, those kinds of stuff.

So yeah.

This relentless in- effectuation with sex everywhere and constant stimulation shows how the world needs Christian aesthetic tradition.

Yeah, I-

Mm-hmm.

I guess, I think this is just cr- moving in a post-Christian culture when Christianity is really prized, is love so much.

And when you leave Christianity, you leave like the love of God as like the primary thing, what are you going to replace it with?

Well, romantic love is going to become the next thing there because-

Right.

the marriage bond is the closest thing we get to Christ's love for the church.

Everything has to be turned into romantic love at that point.

And I think that's just the res- the natural result of leaving Christian culture and going to a post-Christian culture.

You replace, you, you've already accepted love as like the greatest thing, but now you've got to replace it with typical Christian concepts of love.

And so everything just reduces to romantic love.

Right.

Who is a better debater, IP or Trent Horn?

Well, obviously it's Mike Winger.

I'll leave it at that.

Yeah.

I don't know.

We'll never debate because we're on the same team and I don't debate, you know, Catholic/Protestant stuff either way.

So, and I keep all that stuff private.

It's just my personal decision.

Skillet is great.

The dude already loves me.

Hey Trent, thank, thank you for easing my journey into the Catholic Church.

Praise God.

Wonderful to have you in the church.

I, I-

Um-

And by the way, I'm not I hate to say, I'm gonna feel like, you'll call me the world's youngest boomer, but I, I, I am not familiar with, I am not familiar with Skillet.

I, I thought, at first when I watched the video, I thought he was talking about Skrillex.

I know who Skrillex is.

I thought he said, What, what did he say?

And then I'm like, Oh no, it's Skillet .

and I only know that at, like, the Village Inn or Denny's, but, um, get my cow- get- get the good ol' cowboy skillet going.

No, I'm not familiar, I am not familiar with them.

I'll have to, I'll have to check that out, I guess.

Yeah.

They're, they're not coming up at any ˗I hold irons here so-

Oh, no.

They're an A- oh, they're an American Christian rock band.

Are they, are they the people Hank Hill would say, uh, You're not making rock and roll better.

You're making Christianity worse.

Probably.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Anyway-

I'll have to check it out.

Blue Bell's brothers are as hands and feet, wives and children are as clothing.

You mend your torn dress, but who can reattach a lost limb?

Oh, it's relation to the, uh, Jonathan-

Yeah.

David thing earlier.

Yeah.

Yes.

Another good example of the highest form of love, Admiral Yi Sun-sin dying in battle trying to save Chinese generals in the Battle of Noryang.

Um, yeah, it's an interesting story of, uh, Admiral Yi Sun-sin.

I, I, I-

And then the hol- hol- in the Hollywood remake at the very end, they just start making out.

It's like, Oh, come on.

Come on, people.

A- and they're Black, too, so because-

Yes.

Yes, they ha- that's the Google, uh, AI trying to write this script.

Yeah.

Uh, and anyways, Trent, if possible, check out Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

It's like the Far Eastern version of Lord of the Rings in Shakespeare.

Well-

Cool.

Appreciate that.

Any, um, adject, adjective-

Adjective affixed?

Yeah.

I was just looking at that second word going, What is that?

to the word Christian shifts the emphasis to itself.

Thus, an LGBT Christian is an LGBT not Christian.

Therefore, LGBT Christians have not, do not, and will not and cannot exist.

Um, yeah.

Huh.

I kinda think you're getting it here.

Um-

It depends.

Here's the thing I have with this, is like, I- uh, identifying as LGBTQ is kind of, like, alien to Christianity because this, that we-

Yeah.

don't consider that central to our identity.

Our central identity is Christ.

And often what you get in LGBTQ- ideology is, their sexual orientation is central.

Yeah.

And, like, that's just incompatible with the way Christian- Christianity looks at identity because those are s- things out in the peripheral.

They're not things that would be central, so to say you're an LGBT Christian is kind of like mixing worldviews.

It just, it's like a category error almost.

I don't know.

What are your thoughts?

Well, yeah.

It has nothing to do with the Christian faith itself.

The only places where I would see that being really legitimate, or at least most legitimate, would be, for example, someone who embraces a particular Christian tradition and celebrates that.

So, you know, someone might say, I am a Coptic Christian.

I am an Armenian Orthodox, I'm Armenian Christian.

I'm Byzantine.

I'm a Latin rite Christian.

I'm an E- Western Christian, an Eastern Christian.

And there, what you're doing is you're celebrating the unique, uh, rite and history and liturgy of the Christianity that you are a part of, but yeah, when you, but when you start especially including things that are not directly connected to the faith, uh, those often just ˗ I am this and I also happen to be Christian and-

Mm-hmm.

it is what guides my Christianity, not the other way around.

Yeah.

Well said.

Thank you for the Superchat.

Hopeful Theism says, I need to have both on my channel to fight about this.

Uh, yeah.

You should go on Hopeful Theism, formally known as Potential Theism channel, and you-

I was.

convert 'em to c- Oh, good.

Great.

Well, I was back, I was back when it was Potential, so now it's Hopeful, I'll have to, uh-

Yeah.

Yeah.

It'd be a lot, uh, it was a good time.

Love to do it again.

Yeah.

Get on there and convert 'em, so.

Appreciate the very generous $50 Superchat, five silver pesos.

.

Much appreciated.

You're always Your Superchats on the channel have always been incredibly helpful and appreciated.

Uh, Being pro-LGBT, at this point I am not a Nazi or Hitler.

Even though you aren't.

I mean, I, yeah.

It's become a political slogan in a lotta ways, unfortunately with this one.

Well, you know, what's funny is when people say that, what we're seeing now is, uh, you know, it's the boy who cried Hitler.

Right?

If everybody's Hitler- if everybody's a Nazi, then when it's like, No, they really are Nazis.

Like, Yeah, yeah.

You said that.

And now, people, when they hear it so much, they get desensitized to it.

Like, You're a Nazi.

And people are like, Ha ha, I am.

And then it's like-

Yeah.

now what do you do?

And, like, well, you desensitized everyone to it so much, and that's, that's the problem.

Exactly.

Mike and Trent, how do we tell between how God created us, how the fall did, and what just is?

Asking or to respond to God made me this way.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, my typical response is, you know, like, If you were born this way, this is why Christ said you need to be born again.

Like, Christ kind of acknowledged that people can be born in sin, born with fallen tendencies, and that's why we have to be born again of the spirit and of water.

It, it's not this idea that I mean, it, again, it's, it's just, it's a clash of worldviews.

Christianity has never accepted the way we're born is, like, the way we're intended to be.

We can accept that people are born with dispositions and desires that are sinful and wrong, and that's why we need the Holy Spirit to come into our lives.

It's-

Right.

uh, uh, uh, so I would respond in that way.

And then you ask a-

I think what I would also say, yeah, what I would say also is, this is an interesting point that's made because I really think very few people, especially with same sex attraction, would say they are born that way.

Typically, same sex attraction emerges during puberty or shortly before puberty.

And it's more as a way of saying, Well, when it comes to sexual attraction, this is how I've always felt.

It feels like it's something that comes from within me.

Uh, but there are things where people, um, y- you know, I, uh, I know people, uh, their parents have said ever since they were born, the day they were born, they were always kind of mad or angry or had a very short fuse.

They have literally-

Mm-hmm.

been that way since the day they were born.

They have always been cantankerous, uh, quick to anger with others.

Uh-

Yeah.

And so, but as Christians, we're called to be slow to anger.

So, that could be a legitimate case where you have that predisposition, it may never go away.

And it's a unique cross that you'll bear, and then we have, there are lots of different elements like that.

Um, there's also other examples.

I think when this comes up, people say, you know, Why would why would God make me this way?

Like I said, we live in a fallen world, so we have different sinful dispositions.

We don't know where it comes from, genetics, environment, the genesis of same-sex attraction.

It's still very nebulous.

People now are s- people used to say it could never change.

Now people are saying it can be fluid, so, you know, we don't, we don't really know in that regard.

But when it comes to, yeah, when it comes to the elements of these attractions Shoot, I had a really had a really good point, but it has, it has escaped me at the moment.

Yeah, no worries.

So I got Yeah, ah, well, no it was because So-

While, while you're, while you're thinking, the on- the only thing I would add is like, I mean most straight men are born to desire to sleep with multiple women, yet Christ calls us to be monogamous and in one relationship.

So, and you know, un- unless you become a priest or you have been called to a life of celibacy.

Oh sorry, I, I know, I know what I was going to say.

Yeah.

This particular 'Cause some people say, Well, look, if you have same-sex attraction, what are you gonna do in the church?

Like, you know, you, you're not attracted to women, you're not allowed to marry someone of the same sex, a man and vice versa if it's a woman.

What are people supposed to do?

But there are many people who have those same sorts of pressures, uh, even if they have opposite sex attractions.

So, there are people who describe themselves as incels, for example, people who are involuntarily celibate.

Men who are attracted to women, who would like to marry, but through circumstance or just other things beyond their control, uh, and although sometimes within their control, but other times not within their control, they're just unable to find anyone who wants to marry them.

And so they are essentially consigned to a c- a celibate life, and what will we as a church offer to those?

What, uh, grace?

What heroic virtue?

What self-mastery and discipline?

What saintly options can we offer those who may feel called to the good of marriage, but there is an impediment that prevents them from, from having that good?

Whether it's same-sex attraction or opposite sex-attraction and there's something else preventing it from reaching marriage, it's not just those who identify as LGBT. I think there's a growing number of people who are consigned to the single life even though they would rather not be, and we as a church have to provide them with the spiritual resources for carrying that cross.

Mm-hmm.

Kind of already answered this a little bit, but same-sex attraction due to fallen nature?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Trent is my ninja, says Fox.

Thank you, sir.

If it helps, I'm talking more about street preaching.

Uh, this is from an earlier comment.

Um

Oh, okay.

So, yeah.

Um, Thank you for the very generous Superchat, $50, much appreciated.

I like the use of, uh, Bothy's definition of an individual substance of a rational nature.

I'm having trouble reconciling it with the Trinity.

Do you think it's possible to reconcile this definition?

Thank you to Trent.

You're why I'm studying philosophy.

This seems like it's outside of my wheelhouse.

I'm not so much familiar with his definition, if you know more on that than I do.

It's the, uh, that's the definition of a, a person for him, an individual substance-

Oh.

with a rational nature.

That's what a person is.

Though when we use the terms persons to describe the members of the Trinity, we're always speaking analogically, uh, using the term person, but we are talking about, uh, distinct members of the Trinity, not separate, but they are distinct from one another, the sharing in the divine.

So they all share in the, uh, divine substance and possess a rational nature, but are distinct from one another.

But I can't think off the top of my head who, a good resource on Boethian/Trinitarian theology, but I bet it's out there.

Yeah, as soon as you said it, it came back to me.

I'd, I'd forgot all about that.

Yeah, yeah.

Uh, thank you for becoming a channel member, Jason, much appreciated.

Uh, Trent, you've mentioned the less knowledgeable Protestants are likely saved.

What about Protestants who study Catholicism and stay Protestant?

I think the answer there is going to be the same answer to the question, what about a knowledgeable atheist who remains an atheist, or a knowledgeable Muslim that remains a Muslim?

Uh, only God is going to be able to judge their heart and whether the ignorance they have of the true faith is vincible, something they could have overcome, uh, but sinfully chose not to, or whether it was invincible ignorance that they were not able to overcome.

I do not believe God will damn a person merely for a cognitive error.

It would have to be some kind of moral error as well in their, in their assessment.

Yeah, I think that's a fair response.

Hey guys, good stuff.

I have a question that's slightly off-topic.

I'm curious what your guys' thoughts are on abortion, abolition versus abortion incrementalism.

What's the Catholic and Protestant view?

Sure.

Go ahe-

Well, I was, I mean, I, I thought about this a little.

I thought about maybe having a dialogue with some, the individuals who espouse this view.

I've been involved in the pro- pro-life movement was when I first got into apologetics back in the early 2000s.

My second book is Persuasive Pro-Life.

Um, but the Catholic view So basically the two views are incrm- incrementalism says in order to outlaw abortion, it is acceptable to vote for politicians and legislation that is not perfect, but incrementally reduces access to abortion.

Abortion abolitionists typically say that the only morally appropriate response is to treat abo- you know, only put forward the perfect abortion laws we ought to have that fully outlaw abortion at all stages of development and provide appropriate punishments for those involved, including the woman who is involved, similar to other kinds of, of homicide.

Uh, the Catholic position would a- would allow for I mean you, well, you can't be an abolitionist as a Catholic if you say incrementalism is wrong.

You could say you prefer e- to try to just go for the whole 100-yard touchdown, that's fine.

But in paragraph 73 of the Gospel of Life, Pope Saint John Paul II does s- uh, allow the permissibility of incremental approaches to abortion restrictions.

Uh, and I personally, I mean, I would love to get to a point where abortion is treated like other homicides.

I want to get there.

Mm-hmm.

But abortion abolitionists have failed to tell me how we get there, and I think many of them have essentially said, It's not our job to get there.

That is up to God.

Uh, ultimately our job is just to say the right thing, and we don't They, they're, they have no plan for how to get there.

Uh, the only viable plan that I, I can see is the same for every other social evil, you incrementally restrict it legally and the public consciousness over time grows against it.

Uh, so I, I would l- so the abolitionists, I would say, Yeah, I'd love to get there.

How do I get there?

And I have never been given a realistic plan for how to get there, uh, and so for incrementalists are held as moral failures by abolitionists because, Oh, well, you haven't fully gotten the job done yet.

There's still this legal abortion, still that legal abortion.

You haven't either.

You haven't accomplished anything, so why aren't you just as much moral failures?

You're trying to do what y- oh, I, I would also say I disagree with them, their claim that the Bible mandates abolitionism.

Uh, the Biblical authors would've had no concept of voting in general- or many of the things we need d- to restrict i- in this day and age.

Yeah.

Uh, just so everyone knows, Trent's got a hard stop we're coming up on, so if he needs to take off, I will finish out Super Chats.

Just wanna keep everyone, uh, advised on that.

Hi Trent, what are some issues you think need to be addressed for a future church council?

I would guess they will discuss if baltism can only be done with those with holy order.

Baltism?

I'm not as-

I don't know.

I don't know if that's a misspelling or not.

Baptism?

Baptism maybe?

Maybe

I don't know.

That's the, that's the first Google, um, suggestion.

Well, Catholic canon law, uh, allows for the validity of baptism done by anyone.

While ideally it should be a minister, the deacon or priest, um, because baptism is the door to the other sacraments, Christ has made it as widely available as possible.

Mm-hmm.

So, uh, baptism, code of canon law the Catholic Church recognizes as long as a baptism is done, if the person is, intends to do what the Church intends, uses the proper form, water, and u- sorry, the proper matter, water, and the proper form, the Trinitarian baptismal formula-

Right.

then it's a valid baptism.

Even an atheist, like if an atheist with a, two atheists and one of the atheists says, I actually wanna become Christian, and then the guy is, like, dying and the other atheist friend's the only guy around, and the guy says, I really wish I could've been baptized, the athe- the other atheist friend could take the bottle of water in his l- and he's like, and he says, I wanna do what Christians do here, and says, I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, yeah, it's valid.

So that wouldn't be necessarily at a council.

Mm-hmm.

A future ecumenical council?

Oh, gosh.

You know?

The last one, uh, was, you know, the church of the modern world, Vatican II. Uh, so many things, so many things, but I, I, I would really want to look at, uh, potential elements of reunification, uh-

Yeah.

with Eastern Orthodoxy.

Uh, in the past we haven't had that really addressed at a council really, oh goodness, since three or 400 years ago, maybe, like, at Florence.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, but we've made a lot of theological headway with the Oriental Orthodox, even with the Eastern Orthodox, uh, I, I think there's a lot of room for fruitful, um, engagement there.

I think also in responding to the modern world that, Vatican II is about trying to, the Church coming to grips with, you know, democracy and, uh, religious pluralism in societies, and that's But I, I do think though that now we might need something that's more firmly speaking about how the modern world needs to come to grips with the Church and saying, These are moral lines that cannot be crossed and we have to call the modern world to repentance on.

Uh, so those are a few things.

Yeah.

I am begrudgingly paying attention, says Rainbow Theology, To get my voice heard.

I am a lesbian Catholic.

I love God and he loves me.

My heart is hardened.

You say, 'Pick up your cross.'

Y- Oh, your hearts.

'But are you willing to carry ' Yeah, y- yeah, correct, yeah.

Your heart is hardened.

You say, 'Pick up your cross,' but are you willing to carry it with me?

Well, I would s- I would hope so.

I would say that, uh, Galatians 6:2 says that we ought to carry one another's-

Yeah.

burdens.

So I, I guess if I had a dialogue with this individual, I might say, Okay, well, what do you mean my heart is hardened?

What does that mean?

If that means that I have no empathy towards those who have same sex attraction, I would say that's false, and people who lack that empathy should certainly change, uh-

Right.

using, um E- e- even earlier, you know, we, both of us recognize the importance of not using a derogatory term even though we wanted to make a humorous joke.

We recognize for the good of those with same sex attraction and, and the term I would say we would've used is fairly mild compared to other terms, but understand And, and there are Christians who would just be, they would just use slurs, they would be abs- and, and I, and I've seen them.

I know other Catholics that do channels who, who are very vile in this regard towards those with same sex attraction, so if that's They have hardened hearts.

I would agree that that's wrong.

But if what you're saying is my heart is hardened because I believe the act of sodomy is sinful whether it's two men, two women, or a man and a woman, I would say, No, my heart isn't hardened.

I- I've just received what God has revealed.

Mm-hmm.

And those who don't receive that truth, are you willing to be open to the fact that your heart has been hardened to the truth that God is giving?

Just like, uh, you know, those who are Just like the man who fornicates and says it isn't a big deal has hardened his heart against God-

Mm-hmm.

the person who is in an adulterous relationship, uh, e- the person who s- visits prostitutes- sex workers as some might try to call it.

Um, so I, so I would say that, uh, the church should walk with those-

Right.

who are struggling from any sinful behavior.

Uh, I always recommend Courage.

It's an apostolate in the Catholic Church dedicated to, uh, helping those with same sex attraction.

It doesn't try to change people's orientation.

But I believe the website is couragerc.net, and that i- that would be, um, a resource I would I would point this individual, if they would like to see more of me, where I might be coming from, there's a great documentary called Desire of the Everlasting Hills that I think they might find to be very, um, very helpful.

Yeah.

And I'm, I'm always willing to help in any way I can.

Of course, you know, we're, we're online personalities.

It's harder to help local people.

I remember, I think a year or so ago, I had an individual reach out to me.

Said they were trans and they felt God was calling them out of that-

Mm-hmm.

so I encouraged them to get out of that and to get in a good local church that could help them-

Yeah.

because it's very important for us to carry one another's burdens.

And the church does need to come alongside people who are struggling in this area and help them anywhere.

And But I will say this.

That the church, the church has been present to carry the cross of a particular group within the LGBTQ community.

Mm-hmm.

And that would be transgender individuals who de-transition and return-

Right.

to identifying as their biological sex, often with, uh, emotional and physical scars, deformity, injury that leaves them with lifelong infertility, bodily mutilation.

Uh-

Mm-hmm.

And so these are individuals the church has welcomed and is walking with, that many people within the LG- within the active transgender community have tried to shun and tried to pretend that they do not exist.

Right.

So I would say w- who is going to carry their cross of being a de-transitioner?

Uh, I would say the LGBT community h- has really failed in, in that regard because to do so would hamper many of their political goals, uh, that the church has, has carry has act- been active in, in that way.

But, um, I should actually Oh my I actually should go a little bit early so I can get prepped for my, um, my next-

Yeah.

Much appreciated.

my next, uh I got sh- I got another, I got another interview here in about 10 minutes.

I gotta get, I gotta get all that stuff ready.

And I think this is a good question to, um, to end on.

But thank you once again for having me on, uh, the show-

Mm-hmm.

and for the livestream.

Would, would be happy to do it again anytime.

Oh, absolutely.

We'll definitely have you on again.

Uh, but yeah.

Where, where are you going?

Are you going on another livestream right now?

I am.

I've got another one, uh, that was booked back-to-back at, uh It's at 8:00 in 15 minutes, but I, I'd like to I need to put myself-

Yeah.

together first before that.

All right.

Yeah.

So we'll finish out here.

You can check out Trent on the other li- You know what channel that one's gonna be on?

That's on, I think Berean Kelly Power's channel, uh-

Oh, okay.

Berean Call, I think.

Berean Perspective, I believe.

So we're gonna have a little, we're gonna have a little chat about Sola Scriptura.

So I'll head over there and if I'm a little slow, slow at the gun, it's 'cause I was already here.

But I, I'm excited to have that chat with him and, uh, I, I was really happy to, to do this.

This fit well in my schedule today and, um, yeah.

It's, uh, it's important to, um, talk about these issues.

Yeah.

Well, much appreciate you coming on and we'll definitely have you on again sometime.

So thanks for coming.

All right.

Thank you very much.

Thank you guys so much for watching, and please don't forget to support us at trenthornpodcast.com.