Transcript

0.10-5.94
One thing I've always appreciated with conservative Protestants is their opposition to the evil of abortion.
我一直很欣赏保守新教徒的一点,就是他们坚决反对堕胎的恶行。
5.98-17.20
Some of my fondest memories after college involved traveling the country with a group equally comprised of Catholics and Protestants, who would dialogue with college students on the issue of abortion.
我大学毕业后最珍贵的回忆之一,就是和一群公教徒与新教徒各占一半的人一起走遍全国,跟大学生们讨论堕胎议题。
17.30-22.96
But while I appreciate this alliance now, that wasn't always the case between Catholics and Protestants.
虽然我现在很珍惜这种联盟,但公教徒和新教徒之间并不总是这样。
23.34-35.42
In this episode, I wanna talk about how American Protestantism's relatively late condemnation of abortion reveals a serious flaw in Protestantism's view of doctrinal authority.
在这一集里,我想谈谈美国新教对堕胎的谴责来得相对较晚,这件事如何暴露出新教在教义权威观上的严重缺陷。
35.50-50.08
So in his book, Defenders of the Unborn: The Pro-Life Movement Before Roe V. Wade, which is published by Oxford University Press, Daniel K. Williams shows that most people, Protestant and Catholic, were against abortion in the 19th and early 20th centuries.
在牛津大学出版社出版的《捍卫未出生者:罗诉韦德案之前的反堕胎运动》一书中,Daniel K. Williams 指出,在十九世纪和二十世纪初,大多数新教徒和公教徒都反对堕胎。
50.46-57.52
You have Protestants like Anthony Comstock who crusaded against all obscenities, including abortion and contraception.
像 Anthony Comstock 这样的新教徒就发起运动,反对一切淫秽行为,包括堕胎和避孕。
57.54-65.30
That changed, however, when the Anglican Church removed its condemnation of birth control at the 1930 Lambeth Conference.
然而,当英国圣公会在1930年的兰柏会议上撤销了对避孕的谴责后,情况发生了变化。
65.38-72.88
After that, many Protestants bought into the idea that contraception was not sinful because the Bible doesn't explicitly condemn it.
此后,许多新教徒开始接受一种观点:既然圣经没有明确谴责避孕,那避孕就不是罪。
73.38-89.08
Williams writes, While Catholic clergy and physicians considered liberalized abortion laws a direct attack on the nation's fundamental values, Protestants were more likely to describe abortion as an unfortunate problem that could be solved by better access to contraception.
Williams 写道:「公教的神职人员和医生把放宽堕胎法视为对国家基本价值的直接攻击,而新教徒更倾向于把堕胎描述为一个不幸的问题,并认为只要更好地普及避孕就能解决。」
89.58-105.72
Except for the Anglicans in 1930, no Protestant denomination made a statement against abortion until the 1960s, whereas in 1930, Pope Pius XI reaffirmed the church's opposition to contraception and abortion in his encyclical, Casti Connubii.
除了1930年的英国圣公会,没有任何新教宗派在1960年代之前发表过反对堕胎的声明;而1930年,教宗庇护十一世就在通谕《圣洁婚姻》中重申了公教对避孕和堕胎的反对立场。
105.98-110.56
One prominent story about abortion in the 1960s was the case of Shari Tcesin.
1960年代关于堕胎的一个著名事件是 Shari Tcesin 的案例。
110.82-113.28
She was the star of the television show Romper Room.
她是电视节目《Romper Room》的明星。
113.64-123.66
She wanted to get an abortion because of her use of the prescription drug thalidomide, because if you use it while you're pregnant, it can cause the child to be born with severe birth defects.
她想堕胎,是因为她服用了处方药沙利度胺,这种药如果在怀孕期间使用,会导致孩子出生时带有严重的先天缺陷。
123.70-132.34
Williams says that Protestants were almost twice as likely as Catholics to support her decision to get an abortion due to fetal deformity.
Williams 指出,面对胎儿畸形的情况,新教徒支持她堕胎决定的比例几乎是公教徒的两倍。
132.44-139.76
In 1967, 21 Protestant ministers and Jewish rabbis founded the Clergy Consultation Service on Abortion.
1967年,21位新教牧师和犹太教拉比共同创立了「堕胎神职人员咨询服务」。
140.22-156.60
In the 1960s, some states like Colorado and California had begun to liberalize their abortion laws, and so the US Conference of Catholic Bishops founded the National Right to Life Committee in 1967, which is still the oldest and largest pro-life organization in the United States.
1960年代,科罗拉多、加利福尼亚等州开始放宽堕胎法,于是美国公教主教团在1967年成立了「全国生命权利委员会」,至今仍是美国历史最悠久、规模最大的反堕胎组织。
157.08-165.40
Williams writes, Hardly any evangelical Protestants joined Catholics in lobbying against the abortion law reforms of the late 1960s.
Williams 写道:「几乎没有福音派新教徒与公教徒一起游说反对1960年代末的堕胎法改革。」
165.72-176.84
In his other book, God's Own Party: The Making of the Christian Right, Williams shows how Protestant denominations, including conservative ones like the Southern Baptist Convention, were not completely opposed to abortion.
在他的另一本书《神之党:基督教右翼的形成》中,Williams 指出,包括保守的南方浸信会在内的新教宗派,当时并未完全反对堕胎。
177.30-185.60
While smaller fundamentalists, as he called them, were opposed to abortion, they didn't have a voice because the largest groups fighting abortion were Catholics.
尽管他所说的规模较小的基要派反对堕胎,但他们几乎没有发声渠道,因为最大的反堕胎团体都是公教徒。
185.90-196.90
Williams writes, Despite their pro-life beliefs, Protestant fundamentalists were unable to mount an effective protest against abortion because they were still politically and religiously isolated.
Williams 写道:「尽管基要派持有反堕胎信念,但由于在政治和宗教上仍处于孤立状态,他们无法发起有效的抗议。」
197.30-205.28
They refused to join predominantly Catholic pro-life organizations, so their protests against abortion never reached beyond their own circles.
他们拒绝加入以公教徒为主的反堕胎组织,因此他们的抗议始终局限在自己的小圈子里。
205.78-209.44
Meanwhile, the advocates of legalizing abortion continued to gain ground.
与此同时,推动堕胎合法化的阵营继续扩大声势。
209.78-216.68
Between April 1967 and January 1973, 19 states liberalized their abortion laws.
从1967年4月到1973年1月,共有19个州放宽了堕胎法。
216.70-233.44
Pro-life Catholics turned back the tide of abortion legalization in a few northern states, including Pennsylvania, and they created a national organization, the National Right to Life Committee, to coordinate their state campaigns, but they could not help noting the lack of help that they received from Protestants in these endeavors.
反堕胎的公教徒在包括宾夕法尼亚在内的几个北部州成功阻止了堕胎合法化的浪潮,并成立了全国性组织「全国生命权利委员会」来协调各州的行动,但他们也注意到,在这些努力中几乎没有得到新教徒的帮助。
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The only reason we have a pro-life movement in this country is because of the Catholic people and the Catholic Church, the executive director of the NRLC said in 1973.
「我们国家之所以有反堕胎运动,唯一的原因就是公教信徒和公教会。」全国生命权利委员会的执行主任在1973年这样说道。
244.26-250.12
You can see this ambivalence towards abortion in the official platforms of the largest Protestant denominations at the time.
从当时最大新教宗派的官方立场中,你可以看到他们对堕胎的暧昧态度。
250.60-267.16
The 1968 American Baptist Convention declared, Because Christ calls us to affirm the freedom of persons and the sanctity of life, we recognize that abortion should be a matter of responsible personal decision, and advocated for legal abortion in the first trimester of pregnancy.
1968年美国浸信会大会声明:「因为基督呼召我们肯定人的自由与生命的尊严,我们承认堕胎应是一项负责任的个人决定。」并主张在怀孕首三个月内允许合法堕胎。
267.22-277.56
According to sociologist Sabrina Danielson, the Lutheran Church in America in 1970 argued, A woman or couple may decide responsibly to seek an abortion.
社会学家 Sabrina Danielson 指出,1970年美国路德宗教会主张:「一位女性或一对夫妇可以负责任地决定寻求堕胎。」
277.68-284.78
The Presbyterian Church in the United States in 1970 argued, Abortion should be available to all who desire and qualify for it.
1970年,美国长老会主张:「堕胎应向所有有意愿且符合条件的人开放。」
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The United Church of Christ in 1971 argued for, The repeal of all legal prohibitions of physician-performed abortions.
1971年,联合基督教会呼吁:「废除所有禁止医生施行堕胎的法律禁令。」
292.14-303.42
Finally, in 1972, the United Methodist Church argued for, The removal of abortion from the criminal code, placing it instead under laws related to other procedures of standard medical practice.
最终,1972年,联合卫理公会主张:「把堕胎从刑法中移除,改而纳入与常规医疗程序相关的法律。」
303.74-319.04
In 1971, the Southern Baptist Convention said, We call upon Southern Baptists to work for legislation that will allow the possibility of abortion under such conditions as rape, incest, as well as clear evidence of severe fetal deformity.
1971年,南方浸信会大会声明:「我们呼吁南方浸信会推动立法,允许在强奸、乱伦以及胎儿严重畸形等情况下实施堕胎。」
319.12-339.98
After Roe V. Wade was handed down in 1973, W.A. Criswell, the former president of the Southern Baptist Convention, said, I have always felt that it was only after a child was born and had a life separate from its mother that it became an individual person, and it has always, therefore, seemed to me that what is best for the mother and for the future should be allowed.
1973年罗诉韦德案判决后,南方浸信会前主席 W.A. Criswell 表示:「我一直认为,只有当孩子出生、与母亲分离后,他才成为一个独立的人,因此我始终觉得,应当允许以对母亲和未来最有利的方式行事。」
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Baptists especially supported Roe V. Wade because their denomination had a very strict understanding of the separation of church and state.
浸信会尤其支持罗诉韦德案,因为他们的宗派对政教分离有非常严格的理解。
347.44-361.60
I know Baptist apologists today who tout this separation as one of the strongest points in favor of Baptist theology, but you see the dangers of that thinking when it's used to say the church can't even tell the state that something like abortion should be illegal.
我认识一些浸信会护教学者,今天仍把政教分离视为浸信会神学最有力的论点之一,但当这种思维被用来宣称「教会甚至无权告诉国家堕胎应当非法」时,你就能看出其中的危险。
361.62-366.48
In 1976, Christianity Today asked the question, Is abortion a Catholic issue?
1976年,《今日基督教》提出一个问题:「堕胎是公教议题吗?」
366.94-371.12
Even people as conservative as the Reverend Billy Graham were not completely pro-life.
就连像葛培理牧师这样保守的人,当时也并非完全反堕胎。
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In 1978, he said he was open to abortion in cases of rape and incest and that, in God's eyes, an active abortion may not necessarily be any worse than many other sins we could list.
1978年,他表示在强奸和乱伦的情况下可以接受堕胎,并说「在神眼中,主动堕胎未必比我们列出的许多其他罪更严重」。
382.08-385.20
He solidified that position on Larry King Live in 1988.
1988年,他在《Larry King Live》节目中再次确认了这一立场。
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I w- I would be, uh, for abortion in violent rape.
「我——我会支持在暴力强奸情况下的堕胎。」
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I'm against abortion.
「我反对堕胎。」
391.70-393.86
I take the same stand that the Pope takes.
「我的立场与教宗一致。」
394.00-403.39
I'm against abortion except in cases of rape and in cases, and, uh, violent rape I would say, and then in cases where the mother's life is in danger.
「我反对堕胎,除非是在强奸——我是说暴力强奸——以及母亲生命受到威胁的情况下。」
403.69-415.50
Now, I want to be clear that during this period there were solid Protestants who completely opposed abortion, but as we've seen, one of the problems was that they refused to work with Catholics, so their voices didn't get heard.
我要说明,在这段时期确实有一些坚定的新教徒完全反对堕胎,但正如我们所见,其中一个问题是他们拒绝与公教徒合作,因此他们的声音没有被听见。
415.95-421.92
Even today, I know Catholic groups that have trouble getting Protestants to come pray with them outside abortion facilities.
即使在今天,我也知道一些公教团体很难请到新教徒一起到堕胎诊所外祷告。
422.33-430.98
That's why I appreciate Protestants like my friend Scott Klusendorf, who has defended what he calls theological co-belligerence in his book The Case for Life.
正因如此,我很欣赏像我的朋友 Scott Klusendorf 这样的新教徒,他在《生命的论证》一书中为所谓的「神学并肩作战」辩护。
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Klusendorf points out the hypocrisy of Protestants who refuse to work with Catholics to save children from abortion because they reject Catholic theology, but would be more than willing to work with a Catholic doctor or a Catholic ambulance driver to save their own child's life.
Klusendorf 指出,有些新教徒因为反对公教神学而拒绝与公教徒合作拯救孩子免于堕胎,但如果要救自己孩子的命,他们却愿意与公教医生或公教救护车司机合作,这种双重标准十分虚伪。
446.75-452.25
And during this time before and after Roe v. Wade, there were Catholics who helped to pave the way for legal abortion.
在罗诉韦德案前后这段时期,也有一些公教徒为堕胎合法化铺路。
452.65-466.89
One of the most notorious was Father Robert Drinan, who served in Congress from 1971 to 1981 and he defended legal abortion saying that as a Catholic he personally opposed abortion, but he couldn't impose this view on people through the law.
其中最臭名昭著的就是 Robert Drinan 神父,他在1971年至1981年间担任国会议员,并为合法堕胎辩护,声称「身为公教徒我个人反对堕胎,但我不能通过法律把自己的观点强加于人」。
466.92-473.48
And it's no wonder then in 1980, Pope St. John Paul II demanded that all priests withdraw from serving in elected office.
因此,1980年,教宗圣若望保禄二世要求所有神父退出民选公职,也就不足为奇了。
473.56-488.51
But what's concerning is that by relying on sola scriptura, many upstanding Protestants were able to hold a weaker pro-life view, or even defend completely legal abortion because the Bible wasn't explicit about abortion being evil.
令人担忧的是,由于依赖「唯独圣经」,许多正直的新教徒得以持较弱的反堕胎立场,甚至为完全合法的堕胎辩护,因为圣经并未明确指出堕胎是邪恶的。
488.94-492.00
One had to infer that message from Scripture.
人们只能从圣经中间接推导出这一结论。
492.45-507.31
Just as one might infer from Scripture that contraception is evil, but nearly 100 years later, the majority position among Protestants is that contraception is not sinful because there isn't an explicit condemnation of it in Scripture.
正如有人可能从圣经推断避孕是邪恶的,但近一百年后,新教的主流立场却认为避孕不是罪,因为圣经没有明确谴责它。
507.33-519.89
But by making that the bar, and making that bar so high in order to show the Bible demands something of us morally, that opens the door to excuse all kinds of evils that the Bible doesn't explicitly condemn.
可是,如果把「圣经必须明确禁止」设为标准,而且把这条标准抬得那么高,才能证明圣经在道德上对我们有所要求,这就为宽恕圣经未明确谴责的各种恶行打开了大门。
520.03-541.63
Here are clips I showed from a previous episode of prominent Protestants like Mike Winger, Allen Parr, James Dobson, and Sean McDowell saying that masturbation isn't always wrong provided one doesn't think lustful thoughts during the act, because they say Scripture only explicitly condemns lust, not masturbation.
以下是我在前一集节目中播放的片段,几位知名新教徒 Mike Winger、Allen Parr、James Dobson 和 Sean McDowell 表示,只要行为过程中没有淫念,自慰并不总是错的,因为他们认为圣经只明确谴责淫念,而非自慰本身。
541.89-545.55
Hypothetically I engage in this behavior on, on rare occasions.
「假设我偶尔会有这种行为。」
545.58-549.53
It helps to calm me down and I don't do it lustfully.
「它能让我平静下来,而且我没有带着淫念去做。」
549.60-550.65
I could see a place for that.
「我觉得这可以接受。」
550.65-551.89
I wouldn't rebuke a person for that.
"我不会因此责备一个人。"
551.98-559.82
I don't think the Bible clearly talks about the issue directly, so I'm applying Biblical principles that seem to fairly simply apply to the topic of masturbation.
「我认为圣经没有直接谈论这个问题,所以我只是运用看起来简单适用的圣经原则来处理自慰议题。」
559.91-566.01
Paul says that all things are lawful for me, but not all things are beneficial or expedient.
保罗说:「凡事我都可行,但不都有益处;凡事我都可行,但无论哪一件,我总不受它的辖制。」
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In other words, what he's saying is there's a lot of things that the Bible doesn't say this is wrong or this is a sin.
换句话说,他的意思是,圣经并没有说很多事情是错的,或者说这些是罪。
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We can smoke crack .
我们可以吸快克。
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We can sniff cocaine, right?
我们可以吸可卡因,对吧?
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We can text while driving.
我们可以边开车边发短信。
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But are any of those things that I just mentioned wise?
但我刚才提到的这些事,有哪一样是明智的呢?
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Will they get us closer to God?
它们会让我们更靠近神吗?
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And the answer is no, and I would put masturbation in that same category.
答案是否定的,而我会把自慰也归入这一类。
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I really don't think that it's right for me to tell you what I think because I don't know what God thinks, and on the moral issues of this, the Bible is just about silent.
我真的觉得,我不该告诉你我怎么想,因为我不知道神怎么想;在自慰的道德问题上,圣经几乎保持沉默。
593.03-602.13
If it happens to you, I really wouldn't worry very much about it because I don't think it has much to do with your relationship with God.
「如果这事发生在你身上,我真的不会太担心,因为我不觉得这跟你和神的关系有多大关系。」
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Some would even argue that masturbation for somebody, if it doesn't involve lust and just is a biological, physical release for a person would be fine.
「有些人甚至会说,如果自慰不涉及淫念,只是生理上的释放,那就没问题。」
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So once again, we see the problem here of contraception, abortion, and masturbation, that if the act itself is not explicitly condemned in Scripture, there are Protestants who will justify it using sola scriptura.
于是,我们再次看到避孕、堕胎和自慰的问题:只要圣经没有明确谴责某个行为,就有新教徒用「唯独圣经」来为它辩护。
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Or consider the modern evil of surrogacy.
再想想现代的恶行——代孕。
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That's when you hire a woman solely for the purpose of having her carry another woman's child to term during a pregnancy and then relinquishing that child to the biological mother.
就是你雇一名女性,唯一目的就是让她在怀孕期间怀上并生下另一名女性的孩子,然后把婴儿交给生物学母亲。
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Now, because this is a very new technology, it's going to be hard to come up with an explicitly Biblical argument against it.
由于这是一项非常新的技术,很难提出一条明确出自圣经的反对理由。
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You could even find precedent for this in the Old Testament use of concubines having children for other married women.
你甚至可以在旧约里找到先例:妾为其他已婚妇女生孩子。
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Four of the tribes of Israel came from Jacob's relations with the servants of Leah and Rachel.
以色列的四个支派就源于雅各与利亚和拉结的使女所生的孩子。
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But the Catholic Church has an authority structure that can give a firm condemnation against this very novel evil.
但公教会拥有权威架构,能够对这项全新的恶行作出明确谴责。
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The first successful surrogate pregnancy took place in 1985, and two years later the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith released Donum Vitae and it said the following: Surrogate motherhood represents an objective failure to meet the obligations of maternal love, of conjugal fidelity, and of responsible motherhood.
第一例成功的代孕发生在1985年,两年后信理部发布《生命的恩赐》通函,指出:「代孕在客观上未能履行母爱、夫妻忠贞及负责任母职的义务。」
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It offends the dignity and the right of the child to be conceived, carried in the womb, and brought into the world and brought up by his own parents.
「它侵犯了孩子由自己父母受孕、怀胎、出生并由其抚养的尊严与权利。」
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It sets up to the detriment of families a division between the physical, psychological, and moral elements which constitute those families.
「它使家庭在构成其本质的身体、心理与道德要素之间产生分裂,从而损害家庭。」
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Legislation must also prohibit by virtue of the support which is due to the family, embryo banks, post-mortem insemination, and surrogate motherhood.
「立法也必须出于对家庭的支持,禁止胚胎银行、死后人工授精以及代孕。」
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In 2024, Pope Francis called for a global ban on surrogacy, calling it an object of human trafficking and a grave violation of the woman and child's dignity.
2024年,教宗方济各呼吁全球禁止代孕,称之为人口贩运的工具,严重侵犯女性与儿童的尊严。
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And once again, I want to reaffirm the many Protestants who oppose abortion, many of whom I have learned from to engage that issue better.
在此,我要再次肯定许多反对堕胎的新教徒,我从他们身上学到如何更好地处理这一议题。
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However, the history of modern Protestantism's response to legal abortion and its ambivalence towards other evils, like surrogacy or contraception, shows one of the fundamental problems with sola scriptura.
然而,现代新教对合法堕胎的回应史,以及它对代孕或避孕等其他恶行的暧昧态度,正显示了「唯独圣经」的根本问题之一。
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God wants us to live a moral life, but the Bible does not contain a systematic treatment of what is and isn't moral.
神希望我们过道德的生活,但圣经并没有系统地说明什么行为是道德的、什么是不道德的。
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I mean, how could it, given the new moral issues that have arisen over the church's 2,000-year history?
毕竟,在教会两千年的历史中,不断出现新的道德议题,圣经怎么可能一一涵盖?
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Instead it makes sense to believe that God gave us an enduring teaching authority, a living authority to guide believers.
因此,相信神赐给我们一个持久的、活生生的教导权威来引导信徒,才是合理的。
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As St. Paul put it in First Timothy 3:15, If I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
正如保罗在提摩太前书三章15节所说:「倘若我耽延日久,你也可以知道在神的家中当怎样行;这家就是永生神的教会,真理的柱石和根基。」
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Thank you guys so much for watching.
非常感谢大家的收看。
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If you'd like more resources on addressing the pro-life issue, definitely check out my book, Persuasive Pro-Life.
如果你想获得更多关于反堕胎议题的资源,请务必看看我的书《有说服力的反堕胎论证》。
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Get the second edition with the white cover.
请认准白色封面的第二版。
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It's updated after the repeal of Roe v. Wade.
这本书在罗诉韦德案被推翻后做了更新。
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But in any case, thank you all so much.
无论如何,再次感谢大家。
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I hope you have a very blessed day.
祝你们拥有蒙福的一天。