- start: 1.249
  end: 9.612
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'd like to begin with one of my favorite tales of a young man who was too nervous to ask a young pretty lady out.
  zh: 我想从一个我最喜欢的故事开始，讲述一个年轻人因为太紧张而不敢邀请一位漂亮的年轻女士约会。
- start: 9.612
  end: 12.873
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Finally, he got up enough courage and she agreed to go out.
  zh: 最终，他鼓起了足够的勇气，而她也同意了约会。
- start: 12.873
  end: 16.695
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He was so nervous that he showed up at her house early.
  zh: 他紧张到提前到了她家。
- start: 16.695
  end: 20.716
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But before he did, he stopped by the drugstore three hours earlier.
  zh: 但在此之前，他提前三个小时去了药店。
- start: 21.677
  end: 28.659
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He walked in with a really good idea and he said, I'd like to buy four different boxes of chocolate, the one pound, the two pounds.
  zh: 他带着一个很好的主意走进去说：「我想买四种不同重量的巧克力盒，一磅的、两磅的。」
- start: 29.318
  end: 30.779
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The three-pound and the four-pound.
  zh: 「三磅的和四磅的。」
- start: 30.779
  end: 31.479
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, go ahead.
  zh: 「好的，请继续。」
- start: 31.479
  end: 32.14
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What is it for?
  zh: 「这是为了什么？」
- start: 32.14
  end: 37.162
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, the one-pound box is just to thank the gal for going out with me.
  zh: 「嗯，一磅的盒子是为了感谢那位姑娘愿意和我约会。」
- start: 37.543
  end: 45.166
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But if she lets me hold her hand as we walk about, I'm going to give her the two-pound box at the end of it all.
  zh: 「但如果她让我在散步时牵她的手，我会在最后给她两磅的盒子。」
- start: 45.467
  end: 48.489
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The three-pound box is for the love scene in the movie.
  zh: 「三磅的盒子是为电影中的爱情场景准备的。」
- start: 48.489
  end: 53.912
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I've discovered, I've decided if she lets me put my arm around her, I'm going to give her the three-pound box.
  zh: 「我发现，我决定如果她让我搂着她，我就会给她三磅的盒子。」
- start: 53.912
  end: 62.242
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And if, as we say goodnight and  Go our separate ways, she lets me give her a goodnight kiss, and it's a really good goodnight kiss.
  zh: 「如果在我们道晚安各自离开时，她让我给她一个晚安吻，而且是一个非常棒的晚安吻。」
- start: 62.583
  end: 64.384
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm going to pull out the four-pound box.
  zh: 「我就会拿出四磅的盒子。」
- start: 64.384
  end: 67.827
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Oh, you sly old dog, you have a good time, and he was off.
  zh: 「哦，你这个狡猾的老家伙，祝你玩得开心。」然后他就离开了。
- start: 68.328
  end: 77.456
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, as I said, he got there a little bit early, and she was there at the door saying, hey, we're just sitting down to dinner, and he blurted out, can I come in and join you?
  zh: 正如我所说，他到得有点早，她在门口说：「嘿，我们正要坐下吃晚餐。」他脱口而出：「我能进来和你们一起吃吗？」
- start: 78.297
  end: 82.621
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, all right, and he sat down and said, can I say grace?
  zh: 「好吧。」他坐下后说：「我能做饭前祷告吗？」
- start: 83.14
  end: 84.901
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And they all agreed, and he began to pray.
  zh: 他们都同意了，于是他开始祷告。
- start: 84.901
  end: 91.245
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And he prayed for a couple seconds, he prayed for a half a minute, he prayed for two minutes, he prayed for five minutes, he kept on going.
  zh: 他祷告了几秒钟，祷告了半分钟，祷告了两分钟，祷告了五分钟，他一直在继续。
- start: 91.245
  end: 94.347
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Finally, 15 minutes later, he said, Amen.
  zh: 最后，15分钟后，他说：「阿们。」
- start: 94.347
  end: 98.35
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And everybody proceeded to eat a pretty stale and cold dinner.
  zh: 然后大家开始吃一顿相当不新鲜和冷的晚餐。
- start: 98.35
  end: 102.652
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And on the way out the door, she whispered, you never told me you were so religious.
  zh: 在离开时，她低声说：「你从没告诉我你这么虔诚。」
- start: 103.033
  end: 106.435
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He whispered right back, and you never told me your dad was the druggist.
  zh: 他立即低声回答：「你也从没告诉我你爸爸是药剂师。」
- start: 114.417
  end: 119.619
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, I think of that because a lot of times, we're grateful to be Catholics.
  zh: 你知道，我想到这个是因为很多时候，我们感恩自己是天主教徒。
- start: 119.619
  end: 122.32
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We're proud to be Christians.
  zh: 我们为成为基督徒而自豪。
- start: 122.32
  end: 129.022
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And we rediscover our faith, and we have a sense of joy.
  zh: 我们重新发现我们的信仰，我们有一种喜悦感。
- start: 130.143
  end: 132.584
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Perhaps one like we've never known before.
  zh: 也许是我们从未体验过的。
- start: 133.544
  end: 137.505
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But along the way, something is bound to happen.
  zh: 但在这个过程中，总会发生一些事情。
- start: 137.766
  end: 150.02
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Between this afternoon and that moment when God calls you to Himself,  I can guarantee one thing, and that is suffering.
  zh: 在今天下午和神呼召你到祂那里的那一刻之间，我可以保证一件事，那就是苦难。
- start: 151.642
  end: 153.784
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And we forget about suffering.
  zh: 而我们常常忘记苦难。
- start: 153.784
  end: 166.094
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We get caught up in the truth and the beauty and the practicality of the Catholic faith, and then all of a sudden, boom, we confront suffering.
  zh: 我们沉浸在公教会信仰的真理、美好和实用性中，然后突然间，砰，我们遇到了苦难。
- start: 167.582
  end: 175.186
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And we instinctively fall back on our own resources, and we usually do then what we've been doing all our lives.
  zh: 我们本能地依靠自己的资源，通常会做我们一生中一直在做的事。
- start: 175.186
  end: 188.772
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We'll swear, or we'll lie, or we'll steal, or we'll do something in desperation to recover our balance, because God can't want this, because I don't, and I basically want what God wants, right?
  zh: 我们会咒骂，或撒谎，或偷窃，或绝望地做些什么来恢复平衡，因为神不可能想要这个，因为我不想，而我基本上想要神想要的，对吧？
- start: 190.413
  end: 196.696
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And often the answer is a, God is trying to whisper wrong.
  zh: 而常常答案是，神在试图轻声说「错了」。
- start: 196.835
  end: 202.379
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I want something for you that you are not going to want for yourself naturally.
  zh: 我为你想要的是你自然不会为自己想要的东西。
- start: 204.021
  end: 205.362
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What do we do then?
  zh: 那我们该怎么办呢？
- start: 207.844
  end: 215.81
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, I didn't grow up Catholic, and so I didn't grow up hearing this, but I've now heard it probably my five thousandth time.
  zh: 我从小不是天主教徒，所以我从小没听过这个，但现在我可能已经听过五千次了。
- start: 216.871
  end: 229.883
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What do you tell someone when you see them suffer in pain, they don't like it, and they're tempted to complain,  but you know they shouldn't, and so you say, offer it up.
  zh: 当你看到有人痛苦地受苦，他们不喜欢，他们想抱怨，但你知道他们不应该，所以你说，把它奉献出来。
- start: 235.706
  end: 237.147
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I want to ask you a question.
  zh: 我想问你一个问题。
- start: 237.147
  end: 239.748
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm going to ask this as a convert.
  zh: 我作为一个皈依者来问这个问题。
- start: 240.668
  end: 255.429
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do you know what the single strangest Catholic idea in all of Catholicism is for Bible Christian, Protestant evangelicals,  Do you know what it is?
  zh: 你知道对于圣经基督徒、新教福音派来说，天主教中最奇怪的想法是什么吗？你知道是什么吗？
- start: 255.429
  end: 257.19
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You might think, oh, it's the Pope.
  zh: 你可能会想，哦，是教宗。
- start: 257.19
  end: 258.872
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, you have nothing like him.
  zh: 我是说，你们没有类似的人物。
- start: 259.252
  end: 261.314
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Pope's not that strange.
  zh: 教宗并不那么奇怪。
- start: 261.314
  end: 264.677
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, if they had Davidic kings, we could adjust to that.
  zh: 我是说，如果他们有大卫王朝的国王，我们可以适应。
- start: 265.978
  end: 269.722
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and that really is difficult.
  zh: 嗯，圣母马利亚，这确实很难理解。
- start: 269.722
  end: 274.085
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That runs counter to a lot of what we stood for as Bible Christians.
  zh: 这与我们作为圣经基督徒所坚持的许多东西相悖。
- start: 275.146
  end: 289.781
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But if you take everything else and put it all together, I don't think  It strikes the Protestant, Bible Christian, fundamentalist, charismatic, evangelical, Pentecostal, or whatever you want to call them, nearly as strange as...
  zh: 但如果你把其他所有东西都放在一起，我不认为它对新教徒、圣经基督徒、基要主义者、灵恩派、福音派、五旬节派，或者你想怎么称呼他们，会觉得有什么比这更奇怪的了...
- start: 290.682
  end: 291.703
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Offer it up.
  zh: 把它奉献出来。
- start: 294.545
  end: 296.366
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Offer what up?
  zh: 奉献什么？
- start: 297.788
  end: 299.408
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: I stubbed my toe!
  zh: 我的脚趾撞到了！
- start: 299.989
  end: 301.55
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: I've got a flu!
  zh: 我得了流感！
- start: 302.591
  end: 304.012
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: I broke my arm!
  zh: 我的胳膊断了！
- start: 304.733
  end: 305.633
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Offer it up.
  zh: 把它奉献出来。
- start: 305.633
  end: 306.474
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Fear!
  zh: 恐惧！
- start: 308.502
  end: 310.423
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: What's God going to do with it?
  zh: 神要用它做什么？
- start: 311.724
  end: 314.025
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What do you mean, offer it up?
  zh: 你说的奉献出来是什么意思？
- start: 314.905
  end: 337.717
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And, you know, you're like, well, I've come from a conference at St. Michael's, this Holy Family conference, and so I'm pretty serious about my faith, so I know enough to say, well, you are supposed to unite your sufferings with Christ's sufferings, and Christ's sufferings invest your suffering with redemptive value.
  zh: 你知道，你就像是说，嗯，我刚从圣米迦勒的一个会议回来，这个圣家庭会议，所以我对我的信仰很认真，所以我知道足够多可以说，嗯，你应该把你的苦难与基督的苦难联合起来，基督的苦难赋予你的苦难救赎的价值。
- start: 338.677
  end: 340.157
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, and that's the key.
  zh: 你知道，这就是关键。
- start: 341.198
  end: 346.319
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I hope you know enough to say something as simple but as profound as that.
  zh: 我希望你知道得足够多，能说出如此简单却又如此深刻的话。
- start: 347.04
  end: 355.542
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But if you do know that much and you say that much, don't be surprised if they look and they say, what?
  zh: 但如果你知道这么多并说了这么多，不要惊讶他们看着你说，什么？
- start: 357.263
  end: 361.084
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You unite your sufferings to Christ's sufferings?
  zh: 你把你的苦难与基督的苦难联合起来？
- start: 361.324
  end: 362.164
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 363.124
  end: 365.585
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Didn't Christ suffer enough?
  zh: 基督难道没有受够苦吗？
- start: 367.461
  end: 370.742
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, did he just expire a little prematurely?
  zh: 我是说，他是不是过早地离世了？
- start: 372.704
  end: 383.049
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Where do you Catholics get off thinking that Jesus' suffering has need of anything else to be added unto it, like your suffering?
  zh: 你们天主教徒怎么会认为耶稣的苦难还需要添加什么，比如你的苦难？
- start: 383.529
  end: 386.37
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Your stub-toe, your broken arm, or whatever?
  zh: 你的脚趾撞伤，你的手臂骨折，或者其他什么？
- start: 388.692
  end: 389.992
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Where do you get that?
  zh: 你从哪里得到这种想法的？
- start: 390.973
  end: 398.406
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And you're going to say, from this day on, Colossians 1.24,  Aren't you?
  zh: 从今以后，你会说，歌罗西书1章24节，不是吗？
- start: 399.007
  end: 399.908
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 399.928
  end: 406.693
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Colossians 1.24, and I know some of you are probably sitting there thinking, Colossians 1.24, I heard your tape.
  zh: 歌罗西书1章24节，我知道你们中有些人可能坐在那里想，歌罗西书1章24节，我听过你的录音带。
- start: 408.094
  end: 428.414
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What is Colossians 1.24? Well, if the doctrine of redemptive suffering is the single most strange teaching in the Catholic Church for the average Bible Christian, Colossians 1.24 may well be arguably the biggest surprise  For Bible Christians.
  zh: 歌罗西书1章24节是什么？如果说救赎性苦难的教义对普通圣经基督徒来说是公教会中最奇怪的教导，那么歌罗西书1章24节可能是对圣经基督徒来说最大的惊喜。
- start: 428.835
  end: 429.755
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I know.
  zh: 我知道。
- start: 430.235
  end: 431.936
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It mugged me.
  zh: 它击倒了我。
- start: 433.056
  end: 437.738
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And it mugged me in graduate school when I was in a doctoral program.
  zh: 它在我读博士课程的研究生院时击倒了我。
- start: 437.898
  end: 448.242
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And it didn't just mug me, it mugged Sam, my good friend, my fellow Calvinist, my fellow preacher, my fellow minister, my fellow...
  zh: 它不仅击倒了我，还击倒了山姆，我的好朋友，我的加尔文主义同伴，我的传道同伴，我的牧师同伴，我的...
- start: 448.943
  end: 451.064
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I think I'm an anti-Catholic type guy.
  zh: 我想我是个反天主教的人。
- start: 451.064
  end: 468.734
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He was taking a doctoral seminar along with me on Colossians and Ephesians  And Dr. Stockhausen imposed this text upon Sam and said, I want you to prepare an exegesis paper and present it to the seminar in two weeks.
  zh: 他和我一起参加关于歌罗西书和以弗所书的博士研讨会。斯托克豪森博士把这段经文强加给山姆，说：「我要你准备一篇释经论文，两周后在研讨会上展示。」
- start: 468.994
  end: 472.956
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I saw Sam in the library and he said, what's your text?
  zh: 我在图书馆看到山姆，他问：「你的经文是什么？」
- start: 472.956
  end: 475.778
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I said, Colossians 1.15, one of my favorites.
  zh: 我说：「歌罗西书1章15节，我最喜欢的之一。」
- start: 475.778
  end: 479.28
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Christ is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
  zh: 「基督是那不能看见之神的像，是首生的，在一切被造的以先。」
- start: 479.28
  end: 480.08
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What's yours, Sam?
  zh: 「你的是什么，山姆？」
- start: 480.08
  end: 484.383
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And he said, I've got a really strange one.
  zh: 他说：「我得到了一个很奇怪的。」
- start: 484.383
  end: 485.103
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What's that?
  zh: 「是什么？」
- start: 485.103
  end: 492.711
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Colossians 1.24.  It showed to me, now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake.
  zh: 「歌罗西书1章24节。它向我显明，现在我为你们受苦，倒觉欢乐。」
- start: 493.652
  end: 495.553
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, I mean, I'm used to that.
  zh: 好吧，我是说，我习惯了这个。
- start: 495.874
  end: 497.035
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So is Sam.
  zh: 山姆也是。
- start: 497.715
  end: 500.898
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But then the next part really threw us off.
  zh: 但接下来的部分真的让我们困惑了。
- start: 500.998
  end: 510.245
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And in my flesh, I complete what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is the church.
  zh: 「并且为基督的身体，就是为教会，要在我肉身上补满基督患难的缺欠。」
- start: 512.067
  end: 515.289
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And Sam was like, what do you think that means?
  zh: 山姆就像是在说：「你觉得这是什么意思？」
- start: 516.997
  end: 524.663
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I was already beginning to look into things that were Catholic at that point in my life, but I didn't know what that meant.
  zh: 在我生命中的那个时候，我已经开始研究天主教的事物了，但我不知道那意味着什么。
- start: 524.923
  end: 546.901
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I hadn't really come to grips yet with this notion of redemptive suffering, that we are so united to Christ that His life becomes our life, His sufferings become ours, and the Holy Spirit's main task is to reproduce Christ's life, suffering, death, resurrection, and eternal glory in each and every one of us.
  zh: 我还没有真正理解救赎性苦难的概念，即我们与基督如此紧密地联合，以至于祂的生命成为我们的生命，祂的苦难成为我们的苦难，而圣灵的主要任务是在我们每个人身上重现基督的生命、苦难、死亡、复活和永恒的荣耀。
- start: 547.395
  end: 551.178
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And that is the reason why Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 这就是耶稣差遣圣灵给我们的原因。
- start: 551.279
  end: 558.164
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: To reproduce in us His life, His suffering, His death, His resurrection and eternal glory in us.
  zh: 在我们里面重现祂的生命、祂的苦难、祂的死亡、祂的复活和永恒的荣耀。
- start: 558.185
  end: 563.81
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But I was just discovering it at the time, so I wasn't really sure where Colossians 1.24 fit.
  zh: 但当时我刚刚发现这一点，所以我不确定歌罗西书1章24节如何契合。
- start: 563.81
  end: 566.852
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so I said, you're going to have to let me know, Sam, what you discover.
  zh: 所以我说：「山姆，你得让我知道你发现了什么。」
- start: 567.133
  end: 569.115
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I ran into him another day, two days later.
  zh: 两天后的另一天，我遇到了他。
- start: 569.115
  end: 571.657
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It was in the evening, in fact.
  zh: 事实上，那是在晚上。
- start: 572.217
  end: 574.179
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And he really didn't look good.
  zh: 他看起来真的不太好。
- start: 576.56
  end: 578.802
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I said, what's up?
  zh: 我说：「怎么了？」
- start: 578.802
  end: 584.265
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And he said, well, I've basically broken the interpretive options down into three categories.
  zh: 他说：「嗯，我基本上把解释的选项分为三类。」
- start: 584.726
  end: 585.706
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I said, well, what are they?
  zh: 我说：「那么，它们是什么？」
- start: 585.706
  end: 588.628
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He said, the ones who just avoid it altogether.
  zh: 他说：「第一类是完全回避这个问题的人。」
- start: 588.628
  end: 599.095
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And he had about 10 commentaries written by top-ranking scholars who just simply run all the way around the verse without even commenting upon it.
  zh: 他有大约10本由顶级学者写的注释，他们只是简单地绕过这节经文，甚至不对它进行评论。
- start: 599.654
  end: 608.162
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Second, he said, there are the people who try to deal with it but end up dodging it or denying the clear force of what it seems to be saying.
  zh: 「第二，」他说，「有些人试图处理它，但最终回避或否认它似乎在说的明确含义。」
- start: 608.162
  end: 610.984
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And then he said, there's this third group.
  zh: 然后他说：「还有第三组。」
- start: 612.085
  end: 612.966
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I said, what's that category?
  zh: 我说：「那是什么类别？」
- start: 612.966
  end: 615.068
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He said, that's the Catholic category.
  zh: 他说：「那是天主教的类别。」
- start: 616.97
  end: 621.694
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He said, these are the ones who are really honest about what Paul says.
  zh: 他说：「这些人对保罗所说的话真的很诚实。」
- start: 622.395
  end: 623.816
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I said, what do you mean?
  zh: 我说：「你是什么意思？」
- start: 623.936
  end: 630.356
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And he said, well, Paul says  that something is lacking in Christ's afflictions.
  zh: 他说：「嗯，保罗说基督的患难中有所缺欠。」
- start: 632.318
  end: 642.945
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And he said, this third group acknowledges the straightforward statement that Paul makes, that in Paul's mind something is lacking in what Christ suffered.
  zh: 他说：「这第三组承认保罗直白的陈述，即在保罗的思想中，基督所受的苦难中有所缺欠。」
- start: 643.585
  end: 652.551
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And then he showed me some subdivisions, that these people think that it was lacking because of this, these people think it was lacking because of that.
  zh: 然后他向我展示了一些细分，这些人认为是因为这个原因而缺欠，那些人认为是因为那个原因而缺欠。
- start: 652.732
  end: 653.592
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I said, what do you think?
  zh: 我说：「你怎么看？」
- start: 653.592
  end: 656.734
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And he said, well, I think St. Augustine's right.
  zh: 他说：「嗯，我认为圣奥古斯丁是对的。」
- start: 657.81
  end: 669.079
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: that it isn't that Jesus didn't hang there long enough and suffer enough pain, as much as God wanted, or as much as our sin really called for.
  zh: 「这并不是说耶稣在十字架上挂的时间不够长，或者受的苦不够多，不符合神的意愿，或者不足以赎我们的罪。」
- start: 669.079
  end: 677.106
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's rather that what is lacking in Christ's sufferings is lacking in the members of his mystical body.
  zh: 「相反，基督苦难中所缺欠的是在祂奥秘的身体的肢体中所缺欠的。」
- start: 677.106
  end: 684.171
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That is to say, Augustine says, that what has happened to the head of the body must happen to each and every member of the body.
  zh: 「也就是说，奥古斯丁说，发生在身体头部的事必须发生在身体的每一个肢体上。」
- start: 685.633
  end: 699.418
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so what is lacking  Is Christ's sufferings in us because we shrink back in horror facing the prospect of suffering?
  zh: 「所以，缺欠的是我们里面基督的苦难，因为我们面对苦难的前景时恐惧退缩吗？」
- start: 700.499
  end: 703.099
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I didn't really follow.
  zh: 我并没有真正理解。
- start: 703.099
  end: 707.06
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I said, why is that the one you've really fixed upon?
  zh: 我说：「为什么你特别关注这一点？」
- start: 707.06
  end: 709.08
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He said, because of what Paul says.
  zh: 他说：「因为保罗所说的话。」
- start: 710.001
  end: 729.785
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why else would he say, I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, for in my flesh I complete what is lacking  In other words, St. Paul clearly believes that what Christ has done we all must do, and he is doing it, whether or not those Colossians were.
  zh: 「否则他为什么会说，我为你们受苦，倒觉欢乐，并且为基督的身体，就是为教会，要在我肉身上补满基督患难的缺欠？换句话说，圣保罗清楚地相信，基督所做的我们都必须做，而他正在这样做，不管那些歌罗西人是否如此。」
- start: 729.785
  end: 751.327
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I remember the presentation that he made in class, and he told me right before he came in and made the presentation that he had hardly slept the night before, because he had begun the long and painful process  of thinking through the implications of this teaching.
  zh: 我记得他在课堂上的演讲，他在进来做演讲之前告诉我，他前一晚几乎没睡，因为他开始了漫长而痛苦的过程，思考这个教导的含义。
- start: 753.349
  end: 756.27
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And after the presentation, it was masterful.
  zh: 演讲结束后，效果很好。
- start: 756.27
  end: 763.334
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He convinced, I think, each and every person in the seminar of this interpretation, really because it's as plain as the nose in your face once you see it.
  zh: 我想，他说服了研讨会上的每一个人接受这种解释，真的是因为一旦你看到它，就像鼻子一样明显。
- start: 764.074
  end: 767.616
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Afterwards, we walked over to the Student Union Building.
  zh: 之后，我们走到了学生会大楼。
- start: 768.937
  end: 774.8
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I hadn't told him yet about what I was already beginning to plan.
  zh: 我还没有告诉他我已经开始计划的事。
- start: 775.083
  end: 777.864
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And that is my entrance into the Catholic Church.
  zh: 那就是我进入公教会。
- start: 778.625
  end: 781.986
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I said, Sam, what does this mean for your ministry?
  zh: 我说：「山姆，这对你的事工意味着什么？」
- start: 781.986
  end: 783.947
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What does this mean for your preaching?
  zh: 「这对你的讲道意味着什么？」
- start: 784.667
  end: 785.988
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And he said, you know what?
  zh: 他说：「你知道吗？」
- start: 786.188
  end: 791.11
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He said, were I to preach this in the Christian Reformed Church, I would be run out on a rail.
  zh: 他说：「如果我在基督教改革宗教会讲这个，我会被赶出去的。」
- start: 792.231
  end: 797.993
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We don't have the doctoral categories to fit this into.
  zh: 「我们没有适合这种教义的博士级别的类别。」
- start: 799.294
  end: 800.195
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I said, what are you going to do?
  zh: 我说：「你打算怎么办？」
- start: 800.195
  end: 803.836
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He goes, I don't know, but my wife has asked me to bury it.
  zh: 他说：「我不知道，但我妻子要我把它埋藏起来。」
- start: 805.359
  end: 810.183
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And it was his last semester, and I've never heard back from Sam.
  zh: 那是他的最后一个学期，我再也没有收到山姆的消息。
- start: 810.183
  end: 811.563
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Pray for my brother.
  zh: 为我的兄弟祷告吧。
- start: 811.904
  end: 815.286
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I've looked his name up a few times, and I never tracked him down.
  zh: 我查过他的名字几次，但从未找到他。
- start: 815.487
  end: 824.554
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But I remember seeing on his face, etched into his forehead, an interior struggle that was more than intellectual.
  zh: 但我记得看到他脸上，刻在他额头上的内心挣扎，不仅仅是智力上的。
- start: 824.554
  end: 826.915
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It was more than just marital.
  zh: 这不仅仅是婚姻问题。
- start: 827.096
  end: 830.738
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It was more than just a matter of doctrine.
  zh: 这不仅仅是教义问题。
- start: 830.738
  end: 850.416
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It was a personal struggle, a crisis because  he realized not only was this theological system not big enough to accommodate this clear teaching of Paul, but it also didn't fit neatly into what he and I both envisioned as the normal Christian life.
  zh: 这是一个个人的挣扎，一场危机，因为他意识到这个神学体系不仅不足以容纳保罗这个明确的教导，而且也不能很好地融入他和我都设想的正常基督徒生活中。
- start: 852.136
  end: 860.119
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because suffering for us is something that is inescapable, but inasmuch as you can avoid it, you should avoid it.
  zh: 因为对我们来说，苦难是无法逃避的，但只要你能避免，你就应该避免。
- start: 861.32
  end: 879.353
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Whereas St. Paul was challenging us to think about this  Now, if you only had one text, Sam said in his presentation, you might be able to say that we can't put much interpretive weight upon the conclusions that I have reached.
  zh: 而圣保罗却在挑战我们思考这个问题。山姆在他的演讲中说，如果你只有一段经文，你可能会说我们不能把太多解释的重点放在我得出的结论上。
- start: 880.293
  end: 882.614
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But he showed us other texts that day.
  zh: 但那天他向我们展示了其他经文。
- start: 882.615
  end: 929.418
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: For instance, he had us turn to Philippians 3.  St. Paul says, and actually going back a ways, he said, And in that presentation, Sam concluded  by saying that this study has forced me to rethink what the Holy Spirit is trying to do in our lives.
  zh: 例如，他让我们翻到腓立比书第3章。圣保罗说，实际上回顾一下，他说，在那个演讲中，山姆最后说这项研究迫使他重新思考圣灵在我们生命中试图做什么。
- start: 930.76
  end: 933.982
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I've already given to you the statement that he made.
  zh: 我已经把他的陈述告诉你了。
- start: 934.563
  end: 949.914
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He said the primary purpose of the Holy Spirit is to reproduce in us Christ's life, but also Christ's suffering, Christ's death, and then Christ's resurrection and eternal glory, provided we accept it.
  zh: 他说圣灵的主要目的是在我们里面重现基督的生命，但也包括基督的苦难、基督的死亡，然后是基督的复活和永恒的荣耀，只要我们接受它。
- start: 950.58
  end: 952.001
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I remember that statement.
  zh: 我记得那个陈述。
- start: 952.001
  end: 957.144
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He only made it one time, but I must have played it back 50 times in the next several days.
  zh: 他只说了一次，但在接下来的几天里，我一定重复听了50遍。
- start: 957.545
  end: 970.053
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because if you really think that way, you will suffer in a different way than everyone else who thinks in the same old ordinary fashion of the world.
  zh: 因为如果你真的这样想，你会以不同于其他人的方式受苦，而其他人仍以世界上老旧的普通方式思考。
- start: 971.514
  end: 973.616
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I remember talking to Sam's good friend Terry.
  zh: 我记得和山姆的好朋友特里谈话。
- start: 973.616
  end: 984.971
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We went out to a bar that night, and we were just sitting around talking about the project we were working on,  And Terry said to Sam, you know, Sam, why are your papers so difficult?
  zh: 那天晚上我们去了酒吧，我们只是坐在那里谈论我们正在进行的项目，特里对山姆说：「你知道吗，山姆，为什么你的论文这么难？」
- start: 986.312
  end: 993.494
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He said, because in our society today, we hardly have any room for moral evil or sin.
  zh: 他说：「因为在我们今天的社会里，我们几乎没有道德邪恶或罪的空间。」
- start: 993.554
  end: 994.554
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We agree.
  zh: 我们同意。
- start: 994.614
  end: 996.975
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And Terry said, you know what I would suggest?
  zh: 特里说：「你知道我会建议什么吗？」
- start: 996.975
  end: 1006.798
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I would suggest to you that the only real evil that everyone in our society can generally agree on is suffering.
  zh: 「我建议你，在我们的社会中，唯一每个人普遍认同的真正邪恶就是苦难。」
- start: 1008.098
  end: 1010.579
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Those words also stuck out in my mind.
  zh: 这些话也深深印在我的脑海里。
- start: 1011.223
  end: 1012.704
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What do you think about that?
  zh: 你怎么看？
- start: 1012.804
  end: 1013.604
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You look around.
  zh: 你环顾四周。
- start: 1013.604
  end: 1016.105
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why do people take drugs?
  zh: 为什么人们吸毒？
- start: 1016.546
  end: 1018.606
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: To escape pain.
  zh: 为了逃避痛苦。
- start: 1019.107
  end: 1021.308
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why do people contracept?
  zh: 为什么人们避孕？
- start: 1021.528
  end: 1028.531
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: To escape sacrifice, the burden of additional children, the risks that accompany it.
  zh: 为了逃避牺牲，逃避额外孩子的负担，逃避伴随而来的风险。
- start: 1028.552
  end: 1030.632
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why do people get abortions?
  zh: 为什么人们堕胎？
- start: 1031.913
  end: 1037.536
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because they want to avoid the suffering of childbirth and rearing another child.
  zh: 因为他们想避免分娩的痛苦和抚养另一个孩子。
- start: 1038.846
  end: 1046.507
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why do they fall into affairs because they don't want to accept the suffering involved in fidelity?
  zh: 为什么他们陷入婚外情？因为他们不想接受忠诚所涉及的痛苦。
- start: 1047.048
  end: 1051.869
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In not following your passions and your emotions, but in keeping your word.
  zh: 不是跟随你的激情和情感，而是信守你的诺言。
- start: 1052.809
  end: 1056.629
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Even though you know there's another path that would be more pleasurable.
  zh: 即使你知道还有另一条更愉快的道路。
- start: 1058.45
  end: 1062.631
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Whereas the path of fidelity is sometimes just downright painful.
  zh: 而忠诚的道路有时就是彻底的痛苦。
- start: 1064.771
  end: 1085.522
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I don't think that in any other century except our own,  Would we have allowed Jack Kevorkian to live another day, except we have been deluded by the same principle that he operates by, namely, suffering is the only real evil.
  zh: 我认为，除了我们这个世纪，在任何其他世纪我们都不会允许杰克·凯沃基安再活一天，除非我们被他所遵循的同样原则所迷惑，即苦难是唯一真正的邪恶。
- start: 1087.024
  end: 1096.432
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And we should be tolerant of all other evils if they will minimize or eradicate suffering.
  zh: 如果其他邪恶能最小化或消除苦难，我们就应该容忍所有其他邪恶。
- start: 1097.381
  end: 1102.622
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And if Calvary never happened, that would probably be right.
  zh: 如果髑髅地的事从未发生，那可能是对的。
- start: 1104.242
  end: 1105.903
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But Calvary did happen.
  zh: 但髑髅地的事确实发生了。
- start: 1106.543
  end: 1108.243
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Jesus did suffer and die.
  zh: 耶稣确实受苦并死了。
- start: 1108.243
  end: 1120.186
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Jesus did transform our sufferings into a redemptive counter-force that Almighty God can use in harnessing our suffering.
  zh: 耶稣确实将我们的苦难转化为一种救赎的反作用力，全能的神可以利用它来驾驭我们的苦难。
- start: 1120.186
  end: 1128.138
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: United to Christ, He can use that as a counter-force, a spiritual power,  To bring down the kingdom of Satan.
  zh: 与基督联合，祂可以用它作为一种反作用力，一种属灵的力量，来推翻撒但的国度。
- start: 1129.46
  end: 1137.045
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And by looking closely at Mary and Jesus at the cross, I think we can make sense out of suffering.
  zh: 通过仔细观察十字架上的马利亚和耶稣，我认为我们可以理解苦难的意义。
- start: 1137.065
  end: 1155.878
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We can make sense out of Paul's teaching in Colossians 1.24, Philippians 3.10-11. We can make sense out of the teachings of the church in the New Catechism, Article 15.21, where we read, Suffering, a consequence of original sin, acquires a new meaning.
  zh: 我们可以理解保罗在歌罗西书1章24节，腓立比书3章10-11节的教导。我们可以理解《公教会教理》第15.21条中教会的教导，其中我们读到，苦难作为原罪的后果，获得了新的意义。
- start: 1155.914
  end: 1160.677
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: it becomes a participation in the saving work of Jesus.
  zh: 它成为参与耶稣救赎工作的一部分。
- start: 1162.099
  end: 1163.219
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What do you mean?
  zh: 你是什么意思？
- start: 1163.76
  end: 1170.004
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What does the Catechism mean when it says it becomes a participation in the saving work of Jesus?
  zh: 《公教会教理》说它成为参与耶稣救赎工作的一部分是什么意思？
- start: 1171.065
  end: 1183.534
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Are you ready for the objection that will be raised by a Bible Christian who will say, are you implying that Jesus' death was not sufficient?
  zh: 你准备好应对圣经基督徒可能提出的反对意见了吗？他们会说，你是在暗示耶稣的死不够吗？
- start: 1184.415
  end: 1187.606
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That Jesus  Did not suffer enough.
  zh: 耶稣没有受够苦。
- start: 1188.087
  end: 1196.088
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That we need to suffer in order to complete what Jesus did for our redemption.
  zh: 我们需要受苦以完成耶稣为我们的救赎所做的。
- start: 1197.008
  end: 1200.449
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I would say, no, Jesus' suffering was enough.
  zh: 我会说，不，耶稣的苦难已经足够了。
- start: 1202.189
  end: 1203.75
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But enough for what?
  zh: 但足够做什么？
- start: 1204.77
  end: 1208.511
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When Jesus said, it is finished, it was finished.
  zh: 当耶稣说「成了」，它就成了。
- start: 1209.151
  end: 1211.971
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He had done enough, but enough for what?
  zh: 祂已经做得够了，但够做什么？
- start: 1212.512
  end: 1215.232
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's the real question you have to answer.
  zh: 这才是你必须回答的真正问题。
- start: 1216.314
  end: 1223.515
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Suppose Kimberly wanted me to marry her, and I was a little bit reluctant, which I wasn't. You can see why now.
  zh: 假设金伯利想要我娶她，而我有点不情愿，其实我并不是。你现在可以明白为什么了。
- start: 1225.035
  end: 1227.056
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But suppose I was reluctant.
  zh: 但假设我是不情愿的。
- start: 1227.576
  end: 1232.237
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And finally, after being dragged, kicking and screaming to the altar, I said, I do.
  zh: 最后，在被拖到祭坛前又踢又叫之后，我说：「我愿意。」
- start: 1232.237
  end: 1242.098
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And then I went off to the reception, then another bachelor party that was extended out over a week or two.
  zh: 然后我去参加婚宴，之后又去参加了一个延续了一两周的单身派对。
- start: 1242.778
  end: 1243.659
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And she got frantic.
  zh: 她变得疯狂。
- start: 1243.659
  end: 1244.499
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: She couldn't find me.
  zh: 她找不到我。
- start: 1244.499
  end: 1249.324
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Suppose she called me  I found me down at some bar and she came down and she said, what are you doing?
  zh: 假设她给我打电话，在某个酒吧找到我，她下来说：「你在做什么？」
- start: 1249.324
  end: 1251.705
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I said, hey, you got what you wanted.
  zh: 我说：「嘿，你得到你想要的了。」
- start: 1252.165
  end: 1252.926
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I said, I do.
  zh: 我说：「我愿意。」
- start: 1252.926
  end: 1254.566
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Isn't that enough?
  zh: 这还不够吗？
- start: 1256.267
  end: 1257.607
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What would she say?
  zh: 她会说什么？
- start: 1257.787
  end: 1259.628
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, it's enough.
  zh: 是的，这够了。
- start: 1259.788
  end: 1262.349
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Enough to start a married life together.
  zh: 足以开始共同的婚姻生活。
- start: 1263.81
  end: 1267.991
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: See, enough isn't understood properly.
  zh: 看，「足够」没有被正确理解。
- start: 1268.328
  end: 1273.49
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you take it in this minimalistic way and say, Jesus suffered so I don't have to.
  zh: 如果你以这种极简主义的方式理解，说耶稣受苦了，所以我不必受苦。
- start: 1273.49
  end: 1282.634
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, Jesus' suffering was enough to transform my suffering into redemptive power.
  zh: 不，耶稣的苦难足以将我的苦难转化为救赎的力量。
- start: 1283.974
  end: 1285.955
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's enough, but enough for what?
  zh: 这是足够的，但足够做什么？
- start: 1285.955
  end: 1298.44
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Jesus' suffering was enough to make my pain something that I can unite to His and make it useful for God.
  zh: 耶稣的苦难足以使我的痛苦成为我可以与祂联合并为神所用的东西。
- start: 1300.444
  end: 1318.852
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And of all the things that I've said today, I really believe this one weird teaching, this one strange idea, this one notion that is harder for non-Catholics to understand than all the others may prove to be the most useful of all.
  zh: 在我今天所说的所有事情中，我真的相信这个奇怪的教导，这个陌生的想法，这个对非天主教徒来说比其他所有想法都更难理解的概念，可能会证明是最有用的。
- start: 1319.393
  end: 1320.453
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know why?
  zh: 你知道为什么吗？
- start: 1321.553
  end: 1336.54
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because when all is said and done, everything we've said and done  is either going to be eternally significant or eternally insignificant.
  zh: 因为当一切都结束时，我们所说和所做的一切要么永恒地重要，要么永恒地不重要。
- start: 1337.861
  end: 1343.544
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And everything we do is preparation for the last thing we do, which is to die.
  zh: 我们所做的一切都是为我们最后要做的事做准备，那就是死亡。
- start: 1344.845
  end: 1355.01
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If we die at the age of 101, what feels like a long life will all of a sudden vanish into a speck in the face of eternity.
  zh: 如果我们在101岁时死去，感觉很长的一生突然间在永恒面前会变成一个小点。
- start: 1356.235
  end: 1364.001
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And then we will understand why the avoidance of suffering is not the path to take.
  zh: 然后我们就会明白为什么避免苦难不是应该走的路。
- start: 1364.261
  end: 1366.023
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It is the acceptance of suffering.
  zh: 而是接受苦难。
- start: 1366.023
  end: 1376.05
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It is lowering your shoulders and bearing the burdens that God sends your way to make you into a sacrificial lover like himself.
  zh: 是放低你的肩膀，承担神送到你面前的重担，使你成为像祂一样的牺牲的爱人。
- start: 1377.371
  end: 1388.885
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Of all the ideas that have practical value, this notion of redemptive suffering, while it may not be new to anybody here,  It's something that we need to renew every day.
  zh: 在所有具有实际价值的想法中，这种救赎性苦难的概念，虽然对在座的各位可能并不新鲜，但它是我们需要每天更新的东西。
- start: 1388.885
  end: 1391.926
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I don't believe we can hear it too much.
  zh: 我不认为我们听得太多。
- start: 1392.306
  end: 1394.827
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I believe it really is the greatest challenge.
  zh: 我相信这确实是最大的挑战。
- start: 1395.308
  end: 1398.969
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I also believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary is the only way to go.
  zh: 我也相信圣母马利亚是唯一的道路。
- start: 1398.969
  end: 1403.291
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The only way that Jesus went, and the only way that we can go.
  zh: 耶稣走的唯一道路，也是我们能走的唯一道路。
- start: 1403.291
  end: 1409.334
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Just a year ago, I was on the Via Dolorosa.
  zh: 就在一年前，我在苦路上。
- start: 1409.414
  end: 1415.297
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How many of you here have ever taken a pilgrimage to the Holy Land and traveled down the Via Dolorosa?
  zh: 在座的各位中，有多少人曾经朝圣圣地并走过苦路？
- start: 1415.782
  end: 1417.463
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Wow, good number.
  zh: 哇，不少人。
- start: 1417.864
  end: 1423.568
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I would suggest that all of you ask the Lord for that grace at some point.
  zh: 我建议你们所有人在某个时候向主祈求那个恩典。
- start: 1424.289
  end: 1427.872
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But whether you do it or not, I think you can relate to this.
  zh: 但无论你是否这样做，我想你都能理解这一点。
- start: 1428.553
  end: 1435.999
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because when we did the 14 Stations of the Cross in the Via Dolorosa in the streets of Jerusalem, it was the second time I did it.
  zh: 因为当我们在耶路撒冷的街道上的苦路做十四处苦路时，这是我第二次做。
- start: 1436.2
  end: 1444.086
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I knew what to expect, and so I prepared myself, but I found myself even more frustrated than the first time I had done it a couple years before.
  zh: 我知道会发生什么，所以我做了准备，但我发现自己比几年前第一次做时更加沮丧。
- start: 1444.229
  end: 1452.915
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You see, most of the Via Dolorosa, most of the 14 stations are done in very narrow alleyways that are also very noisy.
  zh: 你看，苦路的大部分，十四处苦路中的大部分是在非常狭窄且嘈杂的小巷中进行的。
- start: 1453.656
  end: 1471.25
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You will pass through the Arab section where there are traders, where there are peddlers, where there are babies screaming, where there are kids running around, where there are shopkeepers trying to sell you their wares, where there are people trying to pick your pocket.
  zh: 你会经过阿拉伯区，那里有商人，有小贩，有婴儿在哭闹，有孩子在跑来跑去，有店主试图向你推销他们的商品，有人试图偷你的钱包。
- start: 1472.808
  end: 1474.649
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And in the middle of this, you're trying to pray.
  zh: 在这种环境中，你试图祈祷。
- start: 1474.649
  end: 1483.172
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, you're looking at Jesus falling a second time, and some guy brushes up against you like you checked for your wallet, you know?
  zh: 你知道，你正在看耶稣第二次跌倒，有人擦过你好像你在检查你的钱包，你知道吗？
- start: 1483.172
  end: 1486.474
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And you just want to stop and say, do you mind?
  zh: 你只想停下来说：「你介意吗？」
- start: 1486.474
  end: 1494.497
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, I'm just following the path that the second person of the eternal God had trod when he died for our sins.
  zh: 你知道，我只是在跟随永恒神的第二位格为我们的罪而死时走过的路。
- start: 1494.497
  end: 1495.837
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Can you just keep it down?
  zh: 你能安静点吗？
- start: 1495.837
  end: 1506.465
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I talked to my fellow pilgrims later on, and all of us were fighting the same  Irritation, the same problem.
  zh: 后来我和其他朝圣者交谈，我们所有人都在与同样的烦恼，同样的问题作斗争。
- start: 1508.207
  end: 1516.853
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This narrow, noisy, winding path, which was probably a year ago, just like it was 2,000 years ago.
  zh: 这条狭窄、嘈杂、蜿蜒的道路，可能一年前就是这样，就像2000年前一样。
- start: 1517.994
  end: 1523.618
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: At some point along the way, it happens to many, maybe even most of the pilgrims who do the Stations of the Cross.
  zh: 在途中的某个时刻，许多朝圣者，甚至可能是大多数做苦路的朝圣者都会经历这种情况。
- start: 1524.259
  end: 1533.125
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: All of a sudden, God transforms the anger, the irritation, and the frustration into a spiritual moment.
  zh: 突然间，神将愤怒、烦恼和沮丧转化为一个属灵的时刻。
- start: 1534.366
  end: 1541.109
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because what you're doing is eternally significant, but the world just doesn't really care.
  zh: 因为你所做的事具有永恒的意义，但世界并不真的在乎。
- start: 1542.31
  end: 1558.099
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And all the noise and all the confusion and all the hubbub then was probably just what Jesus had all around Him back when He offered Himself up as the Lamb without blemish.
  zh: 当时所有的噪音、混乱和喧嚣可能就是耶稣将自己献上作为无瑕疵的羔羊时周围的情况。
- start: 1559.74
  end: 1561.901
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The world just kept on going.
  zh: 世界只是继续运转。
- start: 1563.103
  end: 1566.024
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There was no half-minute of silence.
  zh: 没有半分钟的默哀。
- start: 1567.165
  end: 1571.088
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There was no flag at half-,ast.
  zh: 没有降半旗。
- start: 1571.088
  end: 1574.309
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There was no national day of prayer and mourning.
  zh: 没有全国祈祷和哀悼日。
- start: 1575.79
  end: 1579.572
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They didn't ask the televisions all to carry the story.
  zh: 他们没有要求所有电视台报道这个故事。
- start: 1581.033
  end: 1582.414
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Nobody carried it.
  zh: 没有人报道。
- start: 1582.414
  end: 1583.755
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Nobody cared.
  zh: 没有人在乎。
- start: 1584.555
  end: 1591.259
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But that didn't diminish the weight, the value, the significance of what Christ was doing.
  zh: 但这并没有减少基督所做之事的分量、价值和意义。
- start: 1592.401
  end: 1603.029
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the one thing that happened a year ago that didn't happen the first time is all of a sudden the Holy Spirit gave me this grace where I felt that Mary was with me.
  zh: 但一年前发生的一件事，是第一次没有发生的，那就是圣灵突然给了我这个恩典，我感觉到马利亚与我同在。
- start: 1604.17
  end: 1608.953
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And especially at that one station where my best friend Jeff and I began to carry the cross.
  zh: 特别是在那个我和我最好的朋友杰夫开始背十字架的站点。
- start: 1609.153
  end: 1622.163
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When we were the ones carrying the cross, all of a sudden a couple of times I looked and I thought I saw someone and I didn't. And it wasn't an apparition, but it was this vivid sense that Mary is accompanying us.
  zh: 当我们背着十字架时，突然有几次我看了看，以为我看到了某人，但其实没有。这不是幻觉，而是一种强烈的感觉，马利亚在陪伴我们。
- start: 1626.847
  end: 1633.888
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Later on, I went to prayer and I reflected upon this, and I thought to myself, what was Mary doing that day?
  zh: 后来，我去祷告并反思这件事，我问自己，那天马利亚在做什么？
- start: 1634.748
  end: 1635.769
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What was she feeling?
  zh: 她感觉如何？
- start: 1635.769
  end: 1637.189
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What was she thinking?
  zh: 她在想什么？
- start: 1637.189
  end: 1638.669
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What was she saying?
  zh: 她在说什么？
- start: 1639.609
  end: 1643.19
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And a bunch of thoughts came to mind, and I jotted them down.
  zh: 一连串的想法涌上心头，我把它们记了下来。
- start: 1644.51
  end: 1647.891
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I asked the question, what would I have done if I had been Mary?
  zh: 我问自己，如果我是马利亚，我会怎么做？
- start: 1649.331
  end: 1660.106
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I wrote down, I would have looked at my fellow Jews  And I would have said, how can you do this to him, your kinsman, after all that he's done for you?
  zh: 我写下：我会看着我的犹太同胞，说：「在他为你们做了这么多之后，你们怎么能这样对待他，你们的同胞？」
- start: 1660.106
  end: 1665.13
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Who do you think you are to kill your redeemer and king?
  zh: 「你们以为你们是谁，竟敢杀害你们的救赎主和君王？」
- start: 1666.571
  end: 1668.192
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And yet she was silent.
  zh: 然而她保持沉默。
- start: 1669.774
  end: 1685.523
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And then as she turns and sees these Roman soldiers scourging him, preparing the gibbet to execute him by crucifixion, she's seeing these foreigners  who don't even know the covenant traditions of her fellow Jews.
  zh: 然后当她转身看到这些罗马士兵鞭打他，准备用十字架处决他时，她看到这些外国人甚至不知道她的犹太同胞的约定传统。
- start: 1686.484
  end: 1690.765
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And if I had been Mary, I would have said, who do you think you are?
  zh: 如果我是马利亚，我会说：「你们以为你们是谁？」
- start: 1692.246
  end: 1694.808
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Someday you're going to discover just what you've done.
  zh: 「总有一天你们会发现你们做了什么。」
- start: 1694.808
  end: 1697.929
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And oh, you're going to be sorry then.
  zh: 「哦，那时你们会后悔的。」
- start: 1697.929
  end: 1700.65
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But it will be too late.
  zh: 「但那时已经太晚了。」
- start: 1702.551
  end: 1705.173
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And then if I had been Mary, I would have looked at his fellow disciples.
  zh: 如果我是马利亚，我会看着他的门徒们。
- start: 1705.173
  end: 1708.534
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, John finally comes to the foot of the cross.
  zh: 你知道，约翰最终来到十字架脚下。
- start: 1709.332
  end: 1712.674
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I would have named him Johnny-come-lately.
  zh: 我会称他为「姗姗来迟的约翰」。
- start: 1712.674
  end: 1714.335
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Where are all the other ones?
  zh: 其他人都去哪里了？
- start: 1715.576
  end: 1719.219
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Some friends, you turned out to be to my son, my only son.
  zh: 你们这些朋友，原来是这样对待我的儿子，我唯一的儿子。
- start: 1719.219
  end: 1722.64
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Oh, and Peter, what did you say you'd do?
  zh: 哦，还有彼得，你说过你会做什么？
- start: 1723.261
  end: 1727.103
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, right, James and John, you said you'd drink the cup.
  zh: 是啊，雅各和约翰，你们说过你们会喝这杯。
- start: 1728.425
  end: 1730.025
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Had I forgot about that.
  zh: 我差点忘了这件事。
- start: 1731.607
  end: 1735.289
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you were Mary, how would you have fought the irritation?
  zh: 如果你是马利亚，你会如何克制烦恼？
- start: 1736.286
  end: 1740.428
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: at the total absence of all the disciples except for John.
  zh: 除了约翰，所有门徒都不在场。
- start: 1740.428
  end: 1743.829
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Would that have been hard for you?
  zh: 这对你来说会很难吗？
- start: 1743.829
  end: 1746.831
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It was hard for me later that day.
  zh: 那天晚些时候，这对我来说很难。
- start: 1746.831
  end: 1751.693
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But you know the hardest moment of all would have been putting myself in Mary's position.
  zh: 但你知道，最难的时刻是把自己置于马利亚的位置。
- start: 1751.833
  end: 1757.855
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I would have looked to Jesus and I would have been tempted to say, how can you put your mother through this?
  zh: 我会看着耶稣，我会忍不住说：「你怎么能让你的母亲经历这些？」
- start: 1759.836
  end: 1766.059
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In fact, if I had been Jesus, I would have said, Mary, Mom, do you mind?
  zh: 事实上，如果我是耶稣，我会说：「马利亚，妈妈，你介意吗？」
- start: 1766.599
  end: 1771.042
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I have been spat upon, I have been beaten, I have been stripped bare.
  zh: 「我被人吐唾沫，我被殴打，我被剥光衣服。」
- start: 1771.543
  end: 1781.031
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Could you save me the additional humiliation and shame and pain by quietly excusing yourself from this horrifying scene?
  zh: 「你能不能悄悄地离开这个可怕的场景，免得我再受到额外的羞辱、耻辱和痛苦？」
- start: 1781.031
  end: 1791.419
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What favor do you think you're doing for me, watching me adding one more set of eyes to this humiliating gaze?
  zh: 「你认为你在看着我，给这羞辱的目光再添一双眼睛，是在帮我什么忙？」
- start: 1793.922
  end: 1796.023
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But Jesus knew she had to be there.
  zh: 但耶稣知道她必须在那里。
- start: 1796.877
  end: 1798.817
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And she knew she had to be there.
  zh: 她也知道她必须在那里。
- start: 1798.978
  end: 1802.938
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And she knew her response was not, how can you put your mother through this?
  zh: 她知道她的回应不是「你怎么能让你的母亲经历这些？」
- start: 1802.938
  end: 1804.379
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Want her to do something!
  zh: 想让她做点什么！
- start: 1804.379
  end: 1808.16
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know why she didn't say that?
  zh: 你知道为什么她没有这么说吗？
- start: 1808.46
  end: 1813.741
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because she knew in her heart that he was doing something.
  zh: 因为她心里知道他正在做一件事。
- start: 1814.201
  end: 1815.901
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Something immense.
  zh: 一件巨大的事。
- start: 1815.922
  end: 1819.422
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Something infinitely great.
  zh: 一件无限伟大的事。
- start: 1819.522
  end: 1838.385
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Something immeasurably greater than if he had zapped every centurion on the spot, if he had  Pop those spikes out if he had released the two on either side, if he had sprung free and all of a sudden said, hey, look, you're wrong, I'm God, and you're sorry now, aren't you?
  zh: 一件远比他当场击倒每个百夫长，弹出那些钉子，释放两边的人，突然挣脱说「嘿，看，你们错了，我是神，你们现在后悔了，不是吗？」更伟大的事。
- start: 1838.385
  end: 1854.768
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, if he had flexed his divinity just a little bit, he wouldn't have done as much as he was doing by suffering, bleeding, gasping, and dying.
  zh: 我的意思是，如果他稍微展示一下他的神性，也不会像他通过受苦、流血、喘息和死亡所做的那样伟大。
- start: 1855.424
  end: 1857.285
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why don't you do something?
  zh: 你为什么不做点什么？
- start: 1858.646
  end: 1865.33
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: She wouldn't have said that, because she knew that he was doing something that would redeem the world.
  zh: 她不会这么说，因为她知道他正在做一件将要救赎世界的事。
- start: 1865.95
  end: 1868.191
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And that something was suffering.
  zh: 而那件事就是受苦。
- start: 1868.572
  end: 1875.215
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That something was suffering embraced voluntarily from a heart filled with love.
  zh: 那件事是出于充满爱的心自愿接受的苦难。
- start: 1875.596
  end: 1877.757
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because that's what love does.
  zh: 因为这就是爱所做的。
- start: 1877.757
  end: 1879.478
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Love gives.
  zh: 爱是给予。
- start: 1879.833
  end: 1881.954
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: A little love gives a little.
  zh: 一点爱给予一点。
- start: 1881.954
  end: 1884.356
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: A lot of love gives a lot.
  zh: 多一点爱给予更多。
- start: 1884.356
  end: 1887.237
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Total love gives totally.
  zh: 完全的爱完全给予。
- start: 1887.237
  end: 1889.778
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It gives self.
  zh: 它给予自己。
- start: 1891.219
  end: 1895.101
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The real test of love is sacrifice.
  zh: 爱的真正考验是牺牲。
- start: 1895.862
  end: 1899.344
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Even our English word passion has that double meaning.
  zh: 甚至我们英语中的「passion」这个词也有双重含义。
- start: 1899.344
  end: 1903.706
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When you hear the word passion, you immediately think of our Lord's suffering.
  zh: 当你听到「passion」这个词时，你立即会想到我们主的受难。
- start: 1903.926
  end: 1907.308
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But we also use the same word with reference to what?
  zh: 但我们也用这个词来指什么？
- start: 1907.932
  end: 1910.353
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: with the feeling that lovers have.
  zh: 指恋人之间的感觉。
- start: 1910.573
  end: 1912.033
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They're passionate.
  zh: 他们充满激情。
- start: 1912.134
  end: 1914.054
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And it's the heat of passion.
  zh: 这是激情的热度。
- start: 1914.174
  end: 1919.336
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because the two, whether we know it or not, belong together.
  zh: 因为这两者，无论我们是否意识到，都是属于一起的。
- start: 1920.597
  end: 1927.139
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because a lover wants to sacrifice himself or herself for the beloved.
  zh: 因为爱人想为所爱之人牺牲自己。
- start: 1928.2
  end: 1942.631
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And while it might be painful to give yourself to God, to Jesus, to Mary, to your family,  If you're really in love, it will hurt you more not to give yourself and not to sacrifice.
  zh: 虽然把自己奉献给神、耶稣、马利亚、你的家人可能会很痛苦，但如果你真的在爱中，不奉献自己、不牺牲会让你更痛苦。
- start: 1943.252
  end: 1948.135
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The pain that Jesus experienced on the cross was indescribable.
  zh: 耶稣在十字架上经历的痛苦是难以形容的。
- start: 1949.217
  end: 1954.581
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But for Jesus to have said no to the Father would have been more painful.
  zh: 但对耶稣来说，对父说「不」会更痛苦。
- start: 1956.123
  end: 1964.009
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: For Jesus to have offended his Father, whom he loved above all, would have been immeasurably greater pain.
  zh: 对耶稣来说，冒犯他最爱的父会是无法衡量的更大痛苦。
- start: 1965.462
  end: 1971.307
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You see, the reason why Jesus didn't say, Mom, how can you just stand there and make it worse?
  zh: 你看，耶稣没有说「妈妈，你怎么能就站在那里让事情变得更糟？」的原因是：
- start: 1971.307
  end: 1972.468
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why don't you leave?
  zh: 「你为什么不离开？」
- start: 1972.468
  end: 1999.643
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Jesus knew that  It wasn't just his consent to death that he needed to offer.
  zh: 耶稣知道他需要奉献的不仅仅是他对死亡的同意。
- start: 1999.643
  end: 2002.364
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What was also needed was Mary's consent.
  zh: 还需要的是马利亚的同意。
- start: 2003.165
  end: 2009.228
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Mary's consent was an essential part of Jesus' redemptive sacrifice.
  zh: 马利亚的同意是耶稣救赎性牺牲的重要组成部分。
- start: 2010.328
  end: 2041.459
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This is the unanimous teaching of the Church from the Fathers to the Doctors down to Vatican II. Mary's consent represents the Church in offering the Son unto the Father  In fact, one theologian made this point in a lecture so forcefully that he said that if the Roman centurions would have refused to pound those nails through his hands and feet, Mary would have picked up the hammer and said, I'll do it instead.
  zh: 这是从教父到博士再到梵蒂冈第二次大公会议的教会一致教导。马利亚的同意代表教会将圣子献给圣父。事实上，一位神学家在讲座中强烈地指出，如果罗马百夫长拒绝将钉子钉入他的手脚，马利亚会拿起锤子说：「我来做。」
- start: 2042.96
  end: 2044.86
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So great was her consent.
  zh: 她的同意是如此伟大。
- start: 2045.201
  end: 2054.225
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, I appreciated this professor's point that the consent was complete, but I did not appreciate the way he made the point.
  zh: 现在，我赞赏这位教授关于同意是完全的观点，但我不赞同他表达这一点的方式。
- start: 2054.844
  end: 2064.65
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because no matter what you say, it would have contradicted maternal love to pound nails into your son's hands and feet.
  zh: 因为无论你怎么说，将钉子钉入儿子的手脚都违背了母爱。
- start: 2064.83
  end: 2069.813
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: To give consent is not the same thing as to actually cause the pain.
  zh: 给予同意并不等同于实际造成痛苦。
- start: 2070.854
  end: 2081.06
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There is no way a mother would have been called upon to drive nails through her little baby, through her son, through her Lord and Savior.
  zh: 绝不可能要求一位母亲将钉子钉入她的小宝宝、她的儿子、她的主和救主的身体。
- start: 2082.001
  end: 2095.764
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But I would suggest to you,  that what Mary gave consent to involved every bit as much suffering for her as hanging on the cross brought to Jesus.
  zh: 但我想告诉你，马利亚所同意的事给她带来的痛苦，与耶稣被钉在十字架上所承受的痛苦一样多。
- start: 2097.025
  end: 2102.789
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, I can't speak for every woman here, but I can speak for Kimberly, because she's told me as much.
  zh: 现在，我不能代表这里的每个女性说话，但我可以代表金伯利说话，因为她告诉过我很多。
- start: 2104.191
  end: 2120.971
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Were Kimberly to be standing on Golgotha, and to behold any one of our five kids upon that cross, it would be far less painful  and far easier for her to say as a mother, get them down and put me up instead.
  zh: 如果金伯利站在各各他山上，看到我们五个孩子中的任何一个被钉在十字架上，作为一个母亲，她说「把他们放下来，把我钉上去」会远远不那么痛苦，也容易得多。
- start: 2123.171
  end: 2139.336
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Maternal love is so naturally self-sacrificing that it would be inclined to accept that suffering, which is what I've seen Kimberly undergo, practically speaking, five different times in getting a cesarean section.
  zh: 母爱是如此自然地自我牺牲，以至于倾向于接受那种苦难，这就是我看到金伯利在五次剖腹产中所经历的。
- start: 2139.516
  end: 2152.948
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: She is laid out cruciform, stripped and humiliated,  in indescribable pain, and her side is opened up, and from it comes forth new life.
  zh: 她被十字形地摆放，被剥光衣服，受到羞辱，承受难以描述的痛苦，她的侧面被打开，从中诞生了新的生命。
- start: 2154.771
  end: 2158.333
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, that is what a woman does almost naturally.
  zh: 你知道，这几乎是一个女人自然而然会做的事。
- start: 2159.074
  end: 2162.938
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That is why she wasn't supposed to do it supernaturally.
  zh: 这就是为什么她不应该超自然地做这件事。
- start: 2163.819
  end: 2181.497
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because the one thing harder for a woman to do than to allow herself to be laid out cruciform to give new life  is to give consent to that new life being laid out cruciform and giving up its life to bring redemption.
  zh: 因为对一个女人来说，比允许自己被十字形摆放以给予新生命更难的事，是同意那个新生命被十字形摆放并放弃生命以带来救赎。
- start: 2183.098
  end: 2187.701
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What Mary did as a mother represents the greatest sacrifice possible.
  zh: 马利亚作为一个母亲所做的代表了可能的最大牺牲。
- start: 2187.881
  end: 2210.305
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But just as Jesus calls us through St. Paul to rejoice in our sufferings and to recognize how the Holy Spirit is working to reproduce Christ's sufferings, Christ's death,  You know, I remember talking to a Catholic shortly before I came into the church, and they were bragging about how the Catholic Church has Mary, not just Jesus.
  zh: 但正如耶稣通过圣保罗呼召我们在苦难中喜乐，并认识到圣灵如何工作以重现基督的苦难、基督的死亡。你知道，我记得在我进入教会之前不久与一个天主教徒交谈，他们吹嘘公教会不仅有耶稣，还有马利亚。
- start: 2227.355
  end: 2234.879
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And this guy went on to say that, you know, you've got Jesus, but we've got the merciful mother who left us in the back door.
  zh: 这个人接着说，你知道，你们有耶稣，但我们有慈悲的母亲，她给我们留了后门。
- start: 2236.64
  end: 2239.241
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And maybe I shouldn't have, but I reacted.
  zh: 也许我不应该，但我做出了反应。
- start: 2240.121
  end: 2245.444
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I said, Mary is only what Jesus has made her, and if there's a back door, it's because Jesus made it.
  zh: 我说，马利亚只是耶稣塑造的，如果有后门，那是因为耶稣创造了它。
- start: 2247.085
  end: 2252.548
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But you've got to remember what Mary did when Jesus went to the cross.
  zh: 但你必须记住马利亚在耶稣上十字架时做了什么。
- start: 2253.548
  end: 2255.349
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: She didn't try to talk him out of it.
  zh: 她没有试图劝阻他。
- start: 2255.6
  end: 2259.503
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: she accompanied him all the way to encourage him to the end.
  zh: 她一路陪伴他，直到最后鼓励他。
- start: 2260.123
  end: 2275.875
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so if she does that with her only beloved son by nature, the son whom she has loved since conception, the son she adores as God, Creator and Redeemer, what do you think she's going to do with us?
  zh: 所以，如果她对她唯一的亲生儿子，从受孕就爱的儿子，她崇拜为神、创造者和救赎者的儿子都这样做，你认为她会对我们怎么做？
- start: 2275.875
  end: 2284.381
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do you think, do you suppose for a minute she's going to say, hey look, Jesus needed to die on the cross.
  zh: 你认为，你是否认为她会说，嘿，看，耶稣需要死在十字架上。
- start: 2284.622
  end: 2289.506
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But you all don't. He was sinless.
  zh: 但你们不需要。祂是无罪的。
- start: 2289.506
  end: 2290.926
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We are sinful.
  zh: 我们是有罪的。
- start: 2292.848
  end: 2296.851
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Hebrews 5 verse 7 puts it very strongly.
  zh: 希伯来书5章7节非常强烈地表达了这一点。
- start: 2298.532
  end: 2309.06
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications with loud cries and tears to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his godly fear.
  zh: 「基督在肉身的日子，曾大声哀哭，流泪祷告，恳求那能救他免死的主，就因他的虔诚蒙了应允。」
- start: 2309.16
  end: 2313.563
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered.
  zh: 「他虽然为儿子，还是因所受的苦难学了顺从。」
- start: 2313.743
  end: 2327.346
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Although he was a son, perfect, sinless, son of God, he learned obedience through what he suffered, and that's how he was made perfect and became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him.
  zh: 虽然祂是儿子，完美无罪的神的儿子，祂通过所受的苦难学会了顺从，这就是祂如何成为完全，成为所有顺从祂的人永恒救恩的源泉。
- start: 2327.746
  end: 2328.947
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And what does it mean to obey him?
  zh: 顺从祂意味着什么？
- start: 2328.947
  end: 2333.448
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He says, if any man would follow me, he must take up his cross daily.
  zh: 祂说，若有人要跟从我，就当天天背起他的十字架。
- start: 2335.328
  end: 2364.484
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so for us, redemptive suffering is not an option for the super saints, the Mother Teresa's, the John Paul II's,  redemptive suffering, offering it up, carrying the cross represents the nuts and bolts of Christian living, the ABCs of Catholic morality, the sine qua non, that without which there is no heaven, that without which there can be no perfection for us.
  zh: 因此对我们来说，救赎性苦难不是超级圣人、特蕾莎修女、若望保禄二世的选择，救赎性苦难、奉献、背负十字架代表了基督徒生活的基本要素，天主教道德的基础，是不可或缺的，没有它就没有天堂，没有它我们就无法达到完美。
- start: 2365.384
  end: 2369.525
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, in conclusion, what does this mean for us practically?
  zh: 现在，总结一下，这对我们实际上意味着什么？
- start: 2369.525
  end: 2370.665
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How do we do it?
  zh: 我们如何做到这一点？
- start: 2371.064
  end: 2374.827
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I suspect that very few of us here will ever be nailed to a cross.
  zh: 我猜想我们在座的很少有人会被钉在十字架上。
- start: 2375.368
  end: 2380.572
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Very few of us here will ever be tortured, much less executed for our faith.
  zh: 我们在座的很少有人会因信仰而被折磨，更不用说被处决了。
- start: 2381.353
  end: 2382.673
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So how do we do it?
  zh: 那么我们该如何做呢？
- start: 2383.334
  end: 2388.038
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The hardest part of suffering for me might be the hardest part for you, I don't know.
  zh: 对我来说最难的苦难部分可能也是对你来说最难的部分，我不知道。
- start: 2388.038
  end: 2391.02
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But you know what the hardest part of suffering is for me?
  zh: 但你知道对我来说苦难最难的部分是什么吗？
- start: 2391.801
  end: 2393.262
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Giving up control.
  zh: 放弃控制。
- start: 2393.783
  end: 2395.704
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I like to be in control.
  zh: 我喜欢掌控一切。
- start: 2396.445
  end: 2398.847
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: My father-in-law likes to be in control.
  zh: 我的岳父也喜欢掌控一切。
- start: 2400.086
  end: 2403.567
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I guess that's just part of what it means to be a father-in-law.
  zh: 我猜这只是作为一个岳父的部分含义。
- start: 2403.567
  end: 2405.428
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But he is one of the godliest men I've ever known.
  zh: 但他是我所认识的最虔诚的人之一。
- start: 2405.428
  end: 2412.13
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And it gives me great comfort to see him struggle with getting sick because he prays more than I do.
  zh: 看到他与生病作斗争给我很大安慰，因为他比我祷告得更多。
- start: 2412.93
  end: 2416.071
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He shares his life with more people than I do.
  zh: 他与更多人分享他的生活。
- start: 2416.651
  end: 2418.832
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He loves more generously than I do.
  zh: 他比我更慷慨地爱人。
- start: 2418.832
  end: 2425.173
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He's also my best brother, friend in Christ, practically speaking.
  zh: 实际上，他也是我在基督里最好的兄弟和朋友。
- start: 2425.434
  end: 2430.115
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: God has blessed me with a father-in-law that I have never known anybody to have.
  zh: 神赐给我一个我从未见过别人拥有的岳父。
- start: 2431.377
  end: 2435.56
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But I see in me and I see in him the same intense struggle.
  zh: 但我在我身上和他身上看到了同样激烈的挣扎。
- start: 2435.56
  end: 2438.742
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When you get sick, you have to give up control.
  zh: 当你生病时，你必须放弃控制。
- start: 2438.762
  end: 2440.324
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Control your schedule.
  zh: 控制你的日程。
- start: 2440.324
  end: 2441.824
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Control your body.
  zh: 控制你的身体。
- start: 2441.885
  end: 2445.267
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Control where you go, what you do, and when you do it.
  zh: 控制你去哪里，做什么，什么时候做。
- start: 2446.168
  end: 2453.073
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so I always wonder, God, what do you hope to accomplish by having me stay in bed for the second day or the third day?
  zh: 所以我总是想，神啊，你希望通过让我在床上躺第二天或第三天来实现什么？
- start: 2453.073
  end: 2456.375
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, are you asleep at the wheel?
  zh: 我是说，你在开车时睡着了吗？
- start: 2456.375
  end: 2458.957
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Can't you kind of pull me back to health?
  zh: 你不能让我恢复健康吗？
- start: 2460.677
  end: 2474.024
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But I am convinced from life experience now and from the Scriptures and from the Church's teaching that God accomplishes more of redemptive value in me when I give up control than when I'm in control.
  zh: 但从现在的生活经验、圣经和教会的教导中，我确信当我放弃控制时，神在我身上实现的救赎价值比我掌控时更多。
- start: 2474.024
  end: 2479.967
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I want to close by sharing one of my all-time favorite stories, and it's a true story.
  zh: 我想以分享我最喜欢的故事之一来结束，这是一个真实的故事。
- start: 2480.187
  end: 2492.001
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It appeared recently in the Focus on the Family magazine, but it happened several years ago, shortly after World War II.  bear with me, take close attention, it will prove to be worth it.
  zh: 它最近出现在《家庭焦点》杂志上，但发生在几年前，就在第二次世界大战后不久。请耐心听我说，仔细注意，这将证明是值得的。
- start: 2492.441
  end: 2495.802
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Marcel Sternberger is the one who writes this story.
  zh: 马塞尔·斯特恩伯格是写这个故事的人。
- start: 2497.163
  end: 2517.172
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He was a very methodical man of nearly 50, bushy white hair, gauntlet brown eyes, and he was a native Hungarian who had survived World War II. And he was living in New York City after the war, and he always took the 909, the Long Island train, from a suburban home down to Long Island.
  zh: 他是一个近50岁的非常有条理的人，浓密的白发，深褐色的眼睛，是一个在二战中幸存下来的匈牙利人。战后他住在纽约市，总是乘坐909长岛列车从郊区家里到长岛。
- start: 2519.013
  end: 2523.616
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: On the morning of January 10, 1948, Sternberger boarded the 909 as usual.
  zh: 1948年1月10日早上，斯特恩伯格像往常一样登上了909列车。
- start: 2524.337
  end: 2536.947
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Suddenly, en route, he remembered he had to visit Laszlo Viktor, a Hungarian friend who lived in Brooklyn and was taken ill, and he wasn't sure he'd live long enough to visit him if it wasn't today.
  zh: 突然，在途中，他想起他必须去拜访拉斯洛·维克多，一个住在布鲁克林的匈牙利朋友，他生病了，如果不是今天去看他，他不确定自己是否能活得足够长来拜访他。
- start: 2537.948
  end: 2546.995
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So dutifully, but unexpectedly, at Ozone Park, he changed the subway for Brooklyn, went to his friend's house, and stayed until mid-afternoon.
  zh: 所以，尽管出乎意料，他还是尽职尽责地在奥佐恩公园换乘地铁去布鲁克林，去了他朋友的家，一直待到下午。
- start: 2547.779
  end: 2557.643
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He then boarded a Manhattan-bound subway for his Fifth Avenue office for the first and only time in his life that he was to ride that train, and here's his story.
  zh: 然后他乘坐开往曼哈顿的地铁去他位于第五大道的办公室，这是他一生中第一次也是唯一一次乘坐那趟列车，这就是他的故事。
- start: 2558.804
  end: 2560.744
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When I got on the car, it was crowded.
  zh: 当我上车时，车厢里很拥挤。
- start: 2560.744
  end: 2562.225
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There wasn't any chance of a seat.
  zh: 没有任何机会找到座位。
- start: 2562.225
  end: 2568.868
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But just as I entered, a man sitting right by the door suddenly jumped up to leave, so I slipped into his empty place.
  zh: 但就在我进去的时候，一个坐在门边的男人突然起身离开，所以我溜进了他空出的位置。
- start: 2569.428
  end: 2583.353
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, I've been living in New York long enough not to start conversations with strangers, but being a photographer, I have a peculiar habit  of analyzing people's faces, and I was struck by the features of the passenger's face on my left.
  zh: 我在纽约生活了足够长的时间，知道不要主动与陌生人交谈，但作为一名摄影师，我有一个特殊的习惯，就是分析人们的面孔，我被左边乘客的面部特征所吸引。
- start: 2583.953
  end: 2589.697
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He was probably in his late 30s, I thought, and when he glanced up, his eyes seemed to have pain, a hurt expression.
  zh: 我想他可能三十多岁快四十了，当他抬头看时，他的眼睛似乎充满痛苦，带着受伤的表情。
- start: 2590.117
  end: 2599.643
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He was reading a Hungarian language newspaper, and so something prompted me to say in Hungarian, I hope you don't mind if I glance at your paper.
  zh: 他正在读一份匈牙利语报纸，所以有什么促使我用匈牙利语说：「我希望你不介意我看一眼你的报纸。」
- start: 2600.904
  end: 2606.827
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The man seemed surprised to be addressed in his native language, but he answered politely, You may read on.
  zh: 这个人似乎对用他的母语被搭话感到惊讶，但他礼貌地回答：「你可以继续看。」
- start: 2607.543
  end: 2608.964
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'll have time later.
  zh: 「我待会儿有时间。」
- start: 2609.745
  end: 2613.147
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: During the half-hour ride to town, we struck up a conversation.
  zh: 在半小时的车程中，我们开始了交谈。
- start: 2613.388
  end: 2615.729
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He said his name was Bela Paskin.
  zh: 他说他的名字是贝拉·帕斯金。
- start: 2616.55
  end: 2618.892
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Bela was a law student when World War II broke out.
  zh: 第二次世界大战爆发时，贝拉是一名法律系学生。
- start: 2618.892
  end: 2622.794
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He had been put into a German labor battalion and sent to the Ukraine.
  zh: 他被编入德国劳工营，被送到乌克兰。
- start: 2623.015
  end: 2626.717
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Later, he was captured by the Russians and put to work burying the German dead.
  zh: 后来，他被俄罗斯人俘虏，被迫埋葬德国死者。
- start: 2627.498
  end: 2635.164
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: After the war, he covered hundreds of miles upon foot until he reached his home in Debrecen, a large city in eastern Hungary.
  zh: 战后，他徒步走了数百英里，直到回到他在匈牙利东部大城市德布勒森的家。
- start: 2636.03
  end: 2640.371
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I myself knew Debrecen well, and we talked about it for a while.
  zh: 我自己很熟悉德布勒森，我们谈论了一会儿。
- start: 2640.371
  end: 2642.432
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And then he told me the rest of the story.
  zh: 然后他告诉了我故事的其余部分。
- start: 2642.432
  end: 2650.975
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: For when he reached his apartment, the one once occupied by his father and mother, his brothers and sisters, it was now occupied by total strangers.
  zh: 因为当他到达他的公寓，那个曾经被他的父母、兄弟姐妹居住的公寓，现在被完全陌生的人占据了。
- start: 2651.255
  end: 2653.976
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He then went upstairs to the apartment that he and his wife once shared.
  zh: 然后他上楼去了他和妻子曾经共同居住的公寓。
- start: 2653.976
  end: 2657.417
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It was also occupied by total strangers.
  zh: 那里也被完全陌生的人占据了。
- start: 2657.657
  end: 2660.478
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: None of them had ever even heard of his family.
  zh: 他们中没有一个人听说过他的家人。
- start: 2661.338
  end: 2663.579
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He began to leave filled with sadness.
  zh: 他开始满怀悲伤地离开。
- start: 2664.059
  end: 2669.622
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When all of a sudden he heard a sound, he turned around and a boy was running after him, calling, "'Paskin!
  zh: 突然他听到一个声音，他转身看到一个男孩在追他，喊道：「帕斯金！
- start: 2669.903
  end: 2670.423
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Paskin!'
  zh: 帕斯金！」
- start: 2670.423
  end: 2672.745
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He was calling out, "'Uncle Paskin!'
  zh: 他在喊：「帕斯金叔叔！」
- start: 2673.345
  end: 2682.451
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The child was the son of some of the neighbors of his, and he went over to the boy's home and talked to his parents, who told him, "'Your whole family is dead.
  zh: 这个孩子是他邻居的儿子，他去了男孩的家，和他的父母交谈，他们告诉他：「你的全家都死了。
- start: 2682.892
  end: 2686.294
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Nazis took them and your wife to Auschwitz.'"
  zh: 纳粹把他们和你的妻子带到了奥斯维辛。」
- start: 2687.555
  end: 2693.859
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Auschwitz, of course, is one of the worst of the Nazi concentration camps, and on that day, Paskin gave up all hope.
  zh: 奥斯维辛当然是最可怕的纳粹集中营之一，那天，帕斯金放弃了所有希望。
- start: 2695.051
  end: 2702.775
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Heart sick to remain in Hungary any longer, he set out again on foot, stealing across border after border until finally he reached Paris.
  zh: 他心痛得无法再留在匈牙利，于是再次徒步出发，偷偷越过一个又一个边境，最终到达了巴黎。
- start: 2702.876
  end: 2709.159
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He managed to immigrate to the United States in October 1947, just three short months before I met him.
  zh: 他设法在1947年10月移民到了美国，就在我遇到他的三个月前。
- start: 2709.9
  end: 2715.243
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: All the time he was talking, however, I kept thinking that somehow his story sounded familiar.
  zh: 然而，在他说话的整个过程中，我一直在想，不知怎的，他的故事听起来很熟悉。
- start: 2716.104
  end: 2721.447
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: A young woman whom I had met recently at the home of friends had also been from Debrecen.
  zh: 我最近在朋友家遇到的一个年轻女子也来自德布勒森。
- start: 2721.952
  end: 2727.596
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: She had been sent to Auschwitz, and from there she was transferred to work in a German munitions factory.
  zh: 她被送到奥斯维辛，然后被转移到德国的一家军火工厂工作。
- start: 2727.956
  end: 2749.652
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: All of her relatives had been killed in the gas chambers, and later she was liberated by the Americans and was brought here in the first boatload of displaced persons in 1946. Her story, in fact, had moved me so much that I'd asked her for her address and phone number, hoping sometime to invite her to meet my family, to help her by relieving a terrible emptiness in her life.
  zh: 她所有的亲人都在毒气室里被杀害，后来她被美国人解救，并在1946年第一批流离失所者中被带到这里。事实上，她的故事深深地打动了我，以至于我向她要了地址和电话号码，希望有朝一日邀请她见见我的家人，通过缓解她生活中可怕的空虚来帮助她。
- start: 2750.555
  end: 2756.699
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, it seemed to me, upon reflection, it seemed impossible that there could be any connection between these two people.
  zh: 嗯，经过思考，我觉得这两个人之间不可能有任何联系。
- start: 2756.759
  end: 2760.742
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But as I neared my station, I fumbled anxiously in my address book.
  zh: 但当我快到站时，我焦急地翻找我的地址簿。
- start: 2760.842
  end: 2767.967
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I asked in what I hoped would sound like a casual voice, Your wife, was her name Maria?
  zh: 我希望用听起来很随意的声音问道：「你妻子，她的名字是玛丽亚吗？」
- start: 2769.188
  end: 2772.11
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Suddenly turned, he looked totally pale.
  zh: 他突然转过身来，脸色变得苍白。
- start: 2772.13
  end: 2773.451
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yes, he answered.
  zh: 「是的，」他回答。
- start: 2773.671
  end: 2774.932
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How did you know?
  zh: 「你怎么知道的？」
- start: 2776.013
  end: 2778.074
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He looked as if he were about to faint.
  zh: 他看起来好像要晕倒了。
- start: 2779.028
  end: 2781.089
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I said, let's get off the train.
  zh: 我说：「我们下车吧。」
- start: 2781.83
  end: 2784.332
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I took him by the arm at the next station and led him to a phone booth.
  zh: 在下一站，我挽着他的胳膊，带他到一个电话亭。
- start: 2784.332
  end: 2788.035
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He stood there like a man in a trance while I dialed her phone number.
  zh: 当我拨她的电话号码时，他站在那里，像是在恍惚中。
- start: 2788.636
  end: 2791.278
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It seemed like hours before Maria answered.
  zh: 玛丽亚接电话前似乎过了几个小时。
- start: 2791.378
  end: 2799.565
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Later I learned her room was alongside the telephone, but she was in the habit of never answering it because she had no friends and all the calls were for others.
  zh: 后来我得知她的房间就在电话旁边，但她习惯从不接电话，因为她没有朋友，所有的电话都是给别人的。
- start: 2799.705
  end: 2804.849
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But this time, with no one else at home, after letting it ring for a long time, she finally responded.
  zh: 但这一次，家里没有其他人，在让电话响了很久之后，她终于接听了。
- start: 2805.07
  end: 2810.64
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When I heard her voice, I told her who I was  And I asked her to describe her husband.
  zh: 当我听到她的声音时，我告诉她我是谁，并请她描述她的丈夫。
- start: 2811.06
  end: 2814.062
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: She seemed surprised at the question, but gave me a description.
  zh: 她似乎对这个问题感到惊讶，但还是给了我一个描述。
- start: 2814.182
  end: 2817.703
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then I asked her where she had lived in Debrecen, and she told me the address.
  zh: 然后我问她在德布勒森住在哪里，她告诉了我地址。
- start: 2818.124
  end: 2824.947
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Asking her to hold the line, I turned to Paskin and said, Did you and your wife live on such and such a street?
  zh: 我让她别挂电话，转身对帕斯金说：「你和你妻子是不是住在某某街？」
- start: 2825.828
  end: 2827.748
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He could barely utter the words.
  zh: 他几乎说不出话来。
- start: 2827.969
  end: 2831.25
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yes, his lips were trembling, white as a sheet.
  zh: 「是的，」他的嘴唇颤抖着，脸色苍白如纸。
- start: 2831.791
  end: 2833.952
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Try to be calm, I urged him.
  zh: 「试着冷静点，」我催促他。
- start: 2834.652
  end: 2837.093
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Something miraculous is about to happen.
  zh: 「奇迹即将发生。」
- start: 2837.233
  end: 2838.634
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Take the telephone.
  zh: 「接电话吧。」
- start: 2841.374
  end: 2845.577
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He nodded in mute bewilderment, his eyes filled with tears.
  zh: 他默默地点头，眼中充满了泪水，一脸茫然。
- start: 2845.858
  end: 2857.307
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He took the receiver, listened for a moment to his wife's voice, and then suddenly cried out in Hungarian, And he began to mumble hysterically.
  zh: 他接过听筒，听了一会儿妻子的声音，然后突然用匈牙利语喊了出来，开始歇斯底里地喃喃自语。
- start: 2857.307
  end: 2860.669
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Seeing that the poor fellow was so excited, he couldn't talk coherently.
  zh: 看到这个可怜的家伙如此激动，他无法连贯地说话。
- start: 2860.669
  end: 2862.951
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I took the receiver from his shaking hand.
  zh: 我从他颤抖的手中接过听筒。
- start: 2863.251
  end: 2866.634
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I told him, I'm sending your husband to you.
  zh: 我告诉她：「我正在把你的丈夫送到你那里。」
- start: 2866.634
  end: 2868.275
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We'll be there in a few minutes.
  zh: 我们几分钟后就到。
- start: 2868.564
  end: 2874.708
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The whole time Bella was crying like a baby, saying over and over again, it's my wife, I go to my wife.
  zh: 整个过程中贝拉像个孩子一样哭泣，一遍又一遍地说：「是我的妻子，我要去见我的妻子。」
- start: 2875.189
  end: 2882.835
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: At first I thought I'd better accompany Paskin lest the man faint from excitement, but I decided that this was a moment in which no stranger should intrude.
  zh: 起初我想我最好陪着帕斯金，以免他因兴奋而晕倒，但我决定这是一个不应该有陌生人打扰的时刻。
- start: 2882.835
  end: 2888.279
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I put him in a taxi, I gave the driver her address, paid the fare and said goodbye.
  zh: 我让他坐上出租车，给司机她的地址，付了车费，然后道别。
- start: 2888.279
  end: 2897.286
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I heard later on that Bella Paskin's reunion with his wife was a moment so poignant, so electric, with suddenly released emotion.
  zh: 我后来听说贝拉·帕斯金与妻子重逢的那一刻是如此感人，如此激动，突然释放的情感如此强烈。
- start: 2897.366
  end: 2902.149
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: that afterward neither he nor Maria could find the words to describe it.
  zh: 以至于之后他和玛丽亚都无法用言语来描述。
- start: 2902.649
  end: 2910.814
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I remember only that when I left the phone, she said, I walked to a mirror like in a dream to see if maybe my hair had turned gray, she said later.
  zh: 我只记得当我放下电话时，她说：「我像在梦中一样走到镜子前，看看我的头发是否变白了，」她后来说。
- start: 2911.175
  end: 2916.858
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The next thing I know a taxi stops in front of my house and my husband, who I thought was dead, is coming toward me.
  zh: 「接下来我知道的是，一辆出租车停在我家门前，我以为已经死去的丈夫正朝我走来。」
- start: 2917.659
  end: 2926.184
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Details I can't remember, only this I know, that it was the first time God had brought happiness back into my life in many years.
  zh: 「细节我记不清了，我只知道，这是多年来神第一次把幸福带回我的生活。」
- start: 2927.125
  end: 2929.586
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Even now it's difficult to believe that it happened.
  zh: 「即使现在，我也很难相信这一切真的发生了。」
- start: 2929.586
  end: 2931.386
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We have both suffered so much.
  zh: 「我们都经历了太多苦难。」
- start: 2931.726
  end: 2934.887
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I have almost lost the ability to not be afraid.
  zh: 「我几乎失去了不害怕的能力。」
- start: 2934.887
  end: 2940.208
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Each time my husband goes from the house, I say to myself, will anything happen to take him from me again?
  zh: 「每次我丈夫离开家，我都会对自己说，会不会再发生什么事情把他从我身边带走？」
- start: 2940.808
  end: 2944.948
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But her husband is confident no horrible misfortune will ever befall them again.
  zh: 但她的丈夫相信，可怕的不幸再也不会降临到他们身上。
- start: 2945.929
  end: 2949.129
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now you might be sitting there thinking, what a coincidence.
  zh: 现在你可能坐在那里想，多么巧合啊。
- start: 2950.29
  end: 2952.57
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I suppose there will always be skeptics.
  zh: 我想总会有怀疑者。
- start: 2953.527
  end: 2980.656
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When I look back at my own life experience, at the conversations that have made the difference in people's lives and in my own, what I have found is it's when I accept the cross, it's when suffering comes my way, it's when the unpredictable is imposed upon me, and then I let go and let God take control, that God's work in me really begins.
  zh: 当我回顾自己的生活经历，回顾那些改变了人们生活和我自己生活的对话时，我发现，当我接受十字架，当苦难来临，当不可预测的事情强加于我身上，然后我放手让神掌控，神在我身上的工作才真正开始。
- start: 2981.377
  end: 2985.919
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This is true for us  Individually, it's also true for our marriages.
  zh: 这对我们个人是真实的，对我们的婚姻也是真实的。
- start: 2986.04
  end: 2987.66
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's true for our children.
  zh: 对我们的孩子也是真实的。
- start: 2988.361
  end: 2992.984
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Mary and Jesus from the cross are saying to us, let go.
  zh: 马利亚和十字架上的耶稣在对我们说，放手吧。
- start: 2993.484
  end: 2994.585
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Let God.
  zh: 让神来掌控。
- start: 2995.045
  end: 2996.085
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And He will.
  zh: 祂会的。
- start: 2996.506
  end: 2997.447
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Let's ask Him in prayer.
  zh: 让我们在祷告中向祂祈求。
- start: 2997.447
  end: 3000.488
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 奉圣父、圣子、圣灵的名。
- start: 3000.688
  end: 3001.549
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Amen.
  zh: 阿们。
- start: 3002.189
  end: 3005.932
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Almighty God, our Heavenly Father, we worship You.
  zh: 全能的神，我们的天父，我们敬拜你。
- start: 3005.932
  end: 3009.954
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We give You thanks and praise for the love that You are.
  zh: 我们为你就是爱而感谢赞美你。
- start: 3010.683
  end: 3017.027
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: and the love that you've shown in generating your Son from all eternity, in pouring your life out.
  zh: 我们感谢你从永恒中生出你的儿子，倾注你的生命，所显示的爱。
- start: 3017.407
  end: 3022.25
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And Jesus, we thank you for imaging the Father, for pouring your life back out.
  zh: 耶稣，我们感谢你彰显天父，倾注你的生命。
- start: 3022.83
  end: 3025.392
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And that life for us is the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 这生命对我们来说就是圣灵。
- start: 3026.252
  end: 3033.957
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We thank you, O Lord, for calling us now to pour our life out, and for giving us the Holy Spirit to empower us to do that.
  zh: 主啊，我们感谢你现在呼召我们倾注生命，并赐给我们圣灵来赋予我们力量去做这件事。
- start: 3034.618
  end: 3048.242
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Help us, O Lord, between now and the day that we die, to accept the contradictions of each day,  To embrace the sufferings, and when you call us to, to let go and to let you control our lives.
  zh: 主啊，从现在到我们离世的那天，请帮助我们接受每一天的矛盾，拥抱苦难，当你呼召我们时，放手让你掌控我们的生命。
- start: 3049.724
  end: 3058.531
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And hear us now as we pray the family prayer that our oldest brother taught us, saying, Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
  zh: 现在请听我们祷告，我们用我们的长兄教导我们的家庭祷告文：「我们在天上的父，愿人都尊你的名为圣。」
- start: 3058.792
  end: 3063.916
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
  zh: 「愿你的国降临，愿你的旨意行在地上，如同行在天上。」
- start: 3064.316
  end: 3072.136
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses  In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 「我们日用的饮食，今日赐给我们。免我们的债，如同我们免了人的债。」奉圣父、圣子、圣灵的名。
- start: 3072.136
  end: 3072.277
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Amen.
  zh: 阿们。
