欢迎回到吉姆杂谈。 Welcome back to Jim's Potpourri.
我是乔·赫施迈尔。 I'm Joe Heschmeyer.
如同承诺的那样，这周我想探讨圣殿帘幔的含义，因为新教徒常 常会问，为什么你们公教会信徒要向马利亚或圣人和天使祈祷？ As promised, this week I want to look at the idea of the temple veil because many times Protestants will say, Why do you Catholics pray to Mary or the saints and angels?
难道你们不知道可以直接向神祷告吗？ Don't you know you can go directly to God?
毕竟，圣殿的帘幔已经裂开了。 After all, the temple veil was torn.
或者他们会说，为什么你们公教会信徒要向神父告解？ Or they'll say, Why do you Catholics confess your sins to a priest?
难道你们不知道可以直接向神认罪吗？ Don't you know you can go directly to God?
你知道，在旧约中有圣殿的帘幔，但当耶稣死在十字架上时，帘幔裂开了。 You know, you had the temple veil in the Old Testament, but then when Jesus dies on the cross, the veil is torn.
现在你可以直接到神面前了。 You can go directly to God now.
最近有人问我这个问题，上周我引用了这段话，当时我是得到许可的。 Now, I was asked this recently, and I quoted from this message last week, but I had permission to do so.
这周我要再次引用，因为提问的那个人有一个更广泛的问题，我们上周已经讨论过了。 I'm going to do it again this week because the person who asked me had a broader question, which we looked at last week.
但是那个人问的其中一个问题是关于圣人代祷的，他是这样 说的：作为一个公教会信徒，我要尽力理解新教的论点。 But one of the questions that the person asked was about intercession with the saints, and here's how he put it: Now, I've got to say, as a Catholic, I'm going to do my best to understand what the Protestant argument is here.
但是他们总是这样表述：嘿，既然这件事已经发生了，你为什么还坚持这种立场？ But that it's overwhelmingly presented in that way: Hey, why do you hold this position when this thing happened?
帘幔裂开了？ The veil was torn?
这暗示着帘幔裂开对当前话题有某种含义，但很少有人 真正说明，那么，你认为帘幔裂开有什么神学含义？ Implied there is some kind of argument that the veil being torn means something for the topic at hand, but rarely does someone really spell out, Well, what do you think the theological implications of the torn veil are?
当然了，正在观看的新教徒们，如果你们觉得我没有很好地表达你们的观点，请告诉我。 By all means, Protestants watching this, if you think I'm doing a bad job of representing it, let me know.
我会说明我听到的观点，然后对这些观点作出回应。 I will show you what I'm hearing and then respond to those things.
我要先指出这些说法往往是如何含糊不清的。 And I'm going to start by showing how these claims are often kind of vague.
这里有个很好的例子：你会看到有人说，如果是这样的 话，祭司就不应该被强制独身，因为帘幔已经裂开了。 Here's a good example of this sort of thing: you'll see, A priest should not have to have this forced celibacy if that be the case, but the veil's been torn.
反正我们也不需要祭司。 We need no priest anyway.
但是话说回来，这话题太大了。 But again, too much to discuss.
这就是我说的那种情况。 So that's the kind of thing I'm talking about.
他说强制独身是不好的。 He says forced celibacy is bad.
顺便说一下，因为帘幔裂开了，所以我们根本不 需要祭司，好像这是一个不言自明的独立论点。 By the way, we don't need priests at all because the veil is torn, as if that is a standalone argument that's just self-explanatory.
然后他说，唉，说不完，就转到下一个话题了。 And then he says, Eh, too much to discuss, and moves on to the next topic.
所以我一开始就说，我没有看到很多新教徒仔细阐述一个逻辑性 的、循序渐进的论证，来说明他们是如何从帘幔裂开推导出不需 要圣人、不需要马利亚、不需要代祷、不需要祭司这些结论的。 So I mentioned this at the outset to say I'm not seeing a lot of Protestants carefully articulating an actual logical step-by-step sort of argument for how they're getting from torn veils to no saints, no Mary, no intercession, no priesthood.
他们似乎只是假定这些都是帘幔裂开的含义，而我认为这很 重要，因为当你真正深入研究时，会发现这完全是错误的。 It seems to be more assumed that those are the implications of the torn veil, and I think that matters because when you actually dig into it, that's completely wrong.
帘幔裂开并不意味着祭司代祷的职分就此终结，更不意味着代祷祈祷的终结。 The torn veil does not mean that's the end of the priesthood in terms of priestly intercession, and it certainly doesn't mean it's the end of intercessory prayer.
现在，我们可以讨论它真正的含义，但我想先说说它不是什么意 思。所以我要先看看流行的新教解释在哪些主要方面理解错了， 然后说，好吧，如果这些解释是错的，那么正确的解释是什么？ Now, we can talk about what it does mean, but I want to first get to what it doesn't. So I'm going to look at major ways popular Protestant interpretations tend to get this wrong and then say, Okay, well, if those are the wrong ways, what's the right way to interpret it?
让我们先从对祭司职分的错误理解开始。 Let's start with getting the priesthood wrong.
这是一个来自著名新教徒约翰·麦克阿瑟的典型例子：「我们不需要任何祭司。」 This is a classic example from a popular Protestant by the name of John MacArthur: We don't need any priests.
启示录第一章：「又使我们成为国民，作他父神的祭司。」 Revelation 1: You are a kingdom of priests.
「我们只需要一位大祭司，而且不是教宗。」 We only need one high priest, and it's not the Pope.
「我们只有一位中保，就是人基督耶稣。」 We have one mediator, the man Christ Jesus.
「帘幔已经裂开；我们可以直接进入至圣所。」 The veil is torn; we go right into the Holy of Holies.
「你是祭司，我也是神的祭司。」 You are a priest, and I am a priest unto God.
在我回应他的立场之前，让我们花点时间试着理解他的立场是什么。 So before I respond to his position, let's just take a minute and try to understand what his position is.
因为如果你仔细注意，他实际上对基督徒祭司的身份提 出了三种不同的说法，表面上看这些说法是矛盾的。 Because if you paid close attention, he actually made three different claims on the status of Christian priests, and on the surface, these claims are contradictory.
在这些说法中，他只是随便提到帘幔裂开了，这似乎能证明这些表面上矛盾的立场。 And in the midst of them, he just throws out that the veil is torn, and this somehow is proving these apparently contradictory positions.
那么，我是什么意思呢？ Now, what do I mean?
如果你仔细听他说的话，他开始说「我们不需要任 何祭司」，所以第一个立场是没有基督徒祭司。 If you pay close attention to what he says, he starts by saying, We don't need any priests, so the first position is there are no Christian priests.
第二个立场是只有一位，就是大祭司耶稣基督。 The second position is there is one, the great high priest, Jesus Christ.
第三个立场实际上是我们所有人都是祭司。 The third position is actually that all of us are priests.
「你是祭司，我是祭司。」 You're a priest, and I'm a priest.
所以他似乎在论证说没有基督徒祭司，只有一位 基督徒祭司就是耶稣，而我们都是基督徒祭司。 So he appears to be arguing that there are no Christian priests, that there's one Christian priest, Jesus, and that we're all Christian priests.
首先，我指出这一点是要说明他甚至没有试图协调这些说法如何能够同时成立。 Now, at the outset, the reason I point this out is to say he's not even trying to harmonize how these things could all be true.
也许如果你适当地加以区分，你可以持有这些立场的某种版本，说这种类型 的祭司不存在，但我们都是那种类型的祭司，而耶稣是这种类型的祭司。 Now, maybe if you put the right nuances on it, you could hold some version of all of those positions to say, Well, there's no priests of this type, but we're all priests of that type, and Jesus is a priest of this type.
但我一开始提到这些表面上的矛盾，是要说明提出这种论点的新教徒通常没 有做实际的思考工作来说明帘幔裂开如何支持这三种立场中的任何一种。 But I mention these apparent contradictions at the outset both to say the Protestants making this argument usually are not doing the actual intellectual work of showing how the torn veil supports any of those three positions.
其次，如果你在自己的神学中对祭司职分没有清晰的认识，就很难 反驳公教会的观点，因为你自己对祭司职分的理解是如此模糊。 But second, if you don't have a clear vision of what the priesthood is in your own theology, it makes it really hard to argue against the Catholic vision because your own vision of priesthood is so muddled.
所以你会发现新教徒说，这实际上是亵渎。 And so you'll find Protestants who say, Well, it's actually blasphemous.
说任何不是耶稣基督的人是祭司都是错误的。 It's wrong to claim any human person that isn't Jesus Christ is a priest.
所以公教会的祭司制度是一个丑闻，这是在抹杀基督的伟大工作。 So Catholic priesthood, this is a scandal; this is undoing the great work of Christ.
然后马上又说我们所有人都是祭司。 And then in the next breath, they'll talk about how all of us are priests.
好吧，如果这是亵渎和错误的，如果这是对耶稣在十字架上独特作为的贬 低，那么你怎么又能说我们所有人都在贬低耶稣在十字架上的作为呢？ Well, if it's blasphemous and wrong, if this is a degradation of the unique act of Jesus on the cross, then how can you also say that all of us are degrading Jesus' act on the cross?
所以我指出这一点是要说，如果你是公教会信徒， 要仔细注意，这个新教徒对祭司职分是怎么想的？ So I point this out just to say, if you're a Catholic, pay careful attention to, Well, what does this Protestant person think about the priesthood?
他们认为只有一位祭司吗？ Do they think there's one priest?
没有祭司？ No priest?
人人都是祭司？ Everybody's a priest?
其次，如果你是新教徒，也许该考虑一下你的论点是否内部 一致，因为我认为麦克阿瑟的论点并不能真正协调一致。 And second, if you're a Protestant, maybe consider whether your arguments are internally coherent because I don't think MacArthur's arguments really work together.
至少，很多说公教会祭司职分某种程度上冒犯了基督的祭司职分的论点，如果认真 对待的话，这些论点也会反对我们是祭司的国度这一明显具有圣经依据的观点。 And at the very least, many of the arguments that say the Catholic priesthood is somehow offensive to the priesthood of Christ, those, if you took them seriously, would be arguments against the idea of us being a kingdom of priests, which is clearly biblical.
所以在这里要非常明确，作为公教会信徒，我们要确认，是的，我们有一位大祭司耶稣基督 ，是的，我们所有人通过洗礼与基督联合，都分享他作为祭司、先知和君王的三重职分。 So to be really clear here, as Catholics, we want to affirm that yes, we have a great high priest, Jesus Christ, and yes, all of us, by incorporation into Christ in our baptism, share in his threefold office of priest, prophet, and king.
记住，基督徒这个词的意思是受膏者。 Remember, the word Christian means anointed.
基督这个词的意思是受膏者。 The word Christ means anointed.
所以我们可以说是小基督；我们分享基督受膏的三重职分。 So we're little Christs, as it were; we share in the anointed office of Christ in the threefold anointed office.
在旧约中，你看到的主要受膏的三类人是祭司、先知和君王。 In the Old Testament, the three groups of people you see getting anointed chiefly are priests, prophets, and kings.
因此我们明白基督具有这些身份，而我们以某种奥秘的方式分享基督的这三重职分。 And so we understand that Christ is all of those things and that we share in some mysterious way in that threefold office of Christ.
我们每个人都是如此。 Every one of us does.
从街上普通的平信徒到罗马的教宗，所有人都是如此。 From the ordinary layperson on the street to the Pope in Rome, everybody in between.
我想首先说明这一点，但我们也相信，有些人，而不是 所有人，被召以独特的身份作为公教会的祭司服事。 So I want to say that at the outset, but we also believe that some, but not all, are called to serve as Catholic priests in a unique capacity.
他们被召担任不同类型的祭司职分，就是照麦基洗德的等次的祭司职分。 They're called to a different kind of priesthood, the priesthood in the order of Melchizedek.
你会记得，在旧约中麦基洗德献上饼和酒，这是弥撒的预表。 Melchizedek, you'll remember, in the Old Testament offers bread and wine, which is a prefigurement of the Mass.
耶稣被描述为照麦基洗德等次的祭司，他并不是呼召所有跟随者，我们将会看到；他呼召十 二使徒，他呼召使徒们，可以说他呼召自上而下被拣选的教会领袖，并吩咐他们举行圣餐。 Jesus is described as being a priest in the order of Melchizedek, and he calls not all of his followers, as we're going to see; he calls the Twelve, he calls the Apostles, he calls the chosen top-down, if you will, clerical leadership, and he tells them to offer the Eucharist.
「你们要如此行，为的是记念我」这话不是对你我说的，而是对神职人员说的。 Do this and do this in remembrance of me isn't to you and me; it's to the clergy.
这就是为什么我们相信某些祭司以一种并非所有受洗者都有的方式分享这职分。 And so that's why we believe that some priests share in this in a way that not all the baptized do.
即使在旧约中也有很好的证据支持这一点。 There's also good evidence of this even in the Old Testament.
所以请记住，麦克阿瑟的立场似乎在逻辑上是说，好吧，你可 以说没有祭司，或者人人都是祭司，或者只有耶稣是祭司。 So remember, MacArthur's position would seem to logically say, Okay, you could say there are no priests, or that everybody's a priest, or that just Jesus is a priest.
他唯一没有提出的立场就是我刚才描述的：一些基督徒，而不是所有人，被召作祭司。 The only position he hasn't staked out is the one I just described: that some Christians, but not all, are called to be priests.
而最令人惊讶的是圣经明确地说了这一点。 And the thing that's radical about that is Scripture clearly says that.
翻到以赛亚书最后一章，第六十六章。神预言谁要来招聚万国，他们要献上真实的敬拜。 Go to the last chapter of Isaiah, Isaiah 66. God foretells who is going to come and gather the nations and that they'll offer true worship.
他甚至谈到他们要如何将供物带到耶和华面前——这是献祭。 He even talks about how they're going to be bringing an offering to the Lord—that's a sacrifice.
现在，我们将会看到，这非常重要，因为这涉及到 敬拜和圣殿的用语，这是外邦人以前不能做的事。 Now, as we're going to see, that's really important because this involves the language of worship and the temple, and this was something Gentiles couldn't do before.
他们不能在至圣所献这些祭。 They couldn't make these offerings in the Holy of Holies.
然后，他们要来到圣山耶路撒冷。 And then, so they're coming to the holy mountain, Jerusalem.
在以赛亚书六十六章二十节，神说：「我也要从他们中间取人为祭司，为利未 人。」注意是「他们中间取人」，不是一个人，不是没有人，也不是所有人。 In Isaiah 66, verse 20, God says, And some of them, not one of them, not none of them, not all of them, some of them also I will take for priests and for Levites, says the Lord.
所以在新约中，当神来招聚他的子民——他已经这样做了，耶稣已经 来到历史中——他招聚百姓，把外邦人带入神的子民中，他拣选其中 一些信徒，不是所有人，也不是没有人，而是其中一些人作祭司。 So in the New Covenant, when God comes and gathers his people together—which he's done; Jesus came into history, spoiler alert—he gathers the people together, he brings the Gentiles into the people of God, and he chooses some of these believers, not all of them, not none of them, some of them to serve as priests.
而利未人的应验，就是协助祭司的人，就是执事职分。 And the fulfillment of the Levites, who are the assistants to the priests, is the diaconate.
这是基督徒从很早就有的理解。 This is how Christians understood this from extremely early on.
我们发现在公元96年，教宗克莱门特在《克莱门特一书》中，将主教、长老（现在称为 祭司）、执事和平信徒的等级与旧约中的大祭司、祭司、利未人和平民的结构作比较。 We find in the year 96, Pope Clement, in a letter called First Clement, comparing the orders of bishop, presbyter (what would now be called priest), deacon, and layman to the Old Testament structure of high priest, priest, Levite, and layman.
所以这不是对以赛亚书六十六章的某种疯狂解读； 这只是神说他要招聚万国，而他确实这样做了。 So this is not some crazy reading of Isaiah 66; it's just God saying he's going to gather the nations together, and he literally does that.
所以这表明确实存在着一个实际的祭司职分。 So that points to there being an actual priesthood.
约翰·麦克阿瑟的立场似乎是说圣殿的帘幔与此相反，但帘幔裂 开并不与人人都是祭司相矛盾，也不与没有人是祭司相矛盾。 John MacArthur's position somehow is that the temple veil is contrary to that, but the temple veil being torn isn't contrary to everybody being a priest, and it's not contrary to nobody being a priest.
但这里没有做任何论证工作。 But there's no work being done there.
看，这就是我所说的对祭司职分的理解非常薄弱。 See, that's what I mean by having a very weak vision of the priesthood.
所以从圣殿帘幔裂开到说人人都可以是祭司或没 有人可以是祭司，这中间没有任何连贯的逻辑。 And so there's no coherent way you're getting from a torn temple veil to saying everybody or nobody can be a priest.
我们不能有部分人是祭司。 We can't have some people.
好，这是新教徒在流行解释中犯的第一个错误。 Okay, so that's the first way Protestants in the popular interpretation get this wrong.
他们倾向于犯的第二个错误是关于代祷。 The second thing they tend to get wrong is intercession.
这里有一段话可以说明我的意思：「耶稣现在是我们的中保。」 Here's a clip to show what I mean: Jesus is now our intercessor.
「我们不需要通过人。」 We don't go through man.
「在罗马公教会的教义下，你所做的就是通过祭司 祈祷，如果你想更上一层，你就去向蒙席祈祷。」 Under the Roman Catholic doctrine, all you do is pray through a priest, and when you pray for that priest, if you want to go a little higher order, you get to pray to monsignor.
「如果你越过他，你就到枢机主教那里。」 If you go past him, you get to cardinal.
「如果你越过他，而且你有足够的钱，你可能就能 到教宗方济各本人那里，去到罗马教宗面前。」 If you go past him and you've got enough money, you might get up to Daddy Fran himself, go over there before the Pope in Rome.
「但你所做的就是通过人来祈祷。」 But what you do is pray through a man.
「然后如果你越过方济各，他们告诉你必须通过马利亚。」 Then if you get past Daddy Fran, they tell you you've got to go through Mary.
「如果你通过了马利亚，他们也不告诉你之后要 去哪里；反正那是无人之地，谁能猜得到呢？」 If you get through Mary, they don't tell you where you go after that; it's no man's land anyway, so who could make a guess?
但新约基督教的核心理念是我们不需要通过人来接近神。 But the very idea in New Testament Christianity is that we do not go through man to reach God.
在旧约之下，那是他们唯一可以接近神的方式。 Now, under the Old Testament covenant, that's the only way they could get there.
所以这是对公教会神学非常混乱的描述——说我们向祭司祈祷，如果有大事就向蒙席祈祷。 So that was a very confusing description of Catholic theology—the idea that we're praying to priests, and if we have a big thing, we pray to monsignor.
我实在不知道他在说什么。 I don't actually know what he's talking about.
这与我一生作为公教会信徒所见到的任何事情都不相符。 That doesn't resemble anything I've ever seen any Catholic do, and I've been Catholic my entire life.
尽管如此，他似乎在提出五个论点。 Nevertheless, he seems to be making five claims.
第一：耶稣是我们唯一的中保。 Number one: Jesus is our only intercessor.
第二：公教会认为你不能直接向神祈祷；你必须要有祭 司的代祷，尽管他的说法好像我们是在向祭司祈祷。 Number two: Catholics think that you're not able to pray directly to God; you have to have the intercession of a priest, even though he words it as like we're praying to the priest.
他可能是说我们必须请祭司为我们祈祷，好像我们不 能自己向天父祈祷；必须要祭司为我们祈祷之类的。 He might mean we have to ask the priest to pray for us, like we can't pray to our Father ourselves; the priest has to pray for us or something.
第三个论点是这somehow解释了为什么公教会信徒向马利亚祈祷。 The third claim is that this somehow explains why Catholics pray to Mary.
刚才他还在谈论祭司、蒙席、枢机主教和教宗。 Now, before he was talking about priests and monsignors and cardinals and the Pope.
好吧，他在提出某种论点——我不知道是什么， 但是某种反对祭司职分、反对神职人员的论点。 It's like, okay, he's making some kind of argument—I don't know what, but some kind of argument against the priesthood, against the clergy.
但接着他开始谈论向马利亚祈祷，可是，马利亚不是祭司啊；她也不是什么超级教宗。 But then he starts talking about praying to Mary, and it's like, well, Mary's not a priest; she's not like the super Pope.
那么他到底在说什么？ So what is he talking about here?
他的论点是说公教会信徒找神职人员为他们祈祷直到他们不祈祷吗？ Is the argument that Catholics go to clergy to pray for them until they don't pray?
还是说他们确实祈祷，但只向天上的圣人和马利亚祈祷？ Or they pray, but they only pray to saints in heaven and Mary?
还是说只有当我们有很多钱和影响力时才能向马利亚祈祷？ Or that we only pray to Mary if we have a lot of money and influence?
我是说，我真想看看他怎么解释那些在教堂长椅上拿着玫瑰经的老太太们，好像在说 ，哦，她们一定很富有；一定很有权势，所以教宗才特别允许她们向马利亚祈祷。 I mean, I'd love to see him explain all the little old ladies in the pews with their rosaries out, like, Oh, they must be so rich; they must be so powerful that the Pope gave them special permission to pray to Mary.
我完全不明白这种说法是什么意思，但这就是作为公教会信徒，你会 听到新教徒对公教会的说法，真该停下来想想你说的话是什么意思。 I have no idea what this claim is, but this is the kind of stuff, as a Catholic, you hear Protestants claiming about Catholicism, and it's like, well, just stop and try to think about the words you're saying.
这说得通吗？ Does this make any sense?
在我看来是说不通的。 And it doesn't seem to me that it does.
但这是他明显提出的第四个论点。 But that's his fourth apparent claim.
第五，他说基督徒不需要通过人来接近神。 Fifth, he says Christians do not go through man to reach God.
他说得很清楚；就是说，你绝对不能那样做。 He makes that very clear; like, you just do not do that.
第六，在旧约之下，那是唯一的方式——你必须通过人来接近神；你不能直接向神祈祷。 And sixth, under the Old Covenant, that was the only way—you had to go through a man to reach God; you couldn't just pray directly to God.
所以你需要代祷。 So you needed intercession.
现在，我想一开始就说明这五个论点实际上都是错误的。 Now, I wanted to say at the outset that literally all five of those claims are wrong.
说耶稣是我们唯一的代祷者是不对的。 It's not true that Jesus is our only intercessor.
说公教会信徒不能直接向神祈祷也是不对的。 It's not true that Catholics can't pray directly to God.
每次你向天父祈祷时，你都是在直接向神祈祷。 Every time you've prayed to our Father, you've prayed directly to God.
说我们向马利亚祈祷是因为我们认为不能直接向神祈祷，这是不对的。 It's not true that this is why we go to Mary, because we think we can't go to God directly.
比如，即使在玫瑰经中，你也有天主经和圣母经并列。 Like, even in the Rosary, you have an Our Father next to a Hail Mary.
从公教会的角度来看，这显然不是非此即彼的情况。 It's clearly not an either-or situation from the Catholic side of things.
第四：说基督徒不能通过人来接近神，这对新约的读者来说完全是闻所未闻的。 Number four: the idea that Christians can't go through man to reach God would have been total news to the readers of the New Testament.
那个被朋友带到耶稣面前的瘫子——耶稣有说过：「嘿，你不能通过人来接近我吗？」 The paralyzed man who's brought by his friends to Jesus—did Jesus say, Hey, you can't go through a man to reach me?
完全没有道理，在神学上完全站不住脚。 Totally nonsensical, totally theologically unsound.
撇开耶稣本身既是人又是神这个事实不谈，有各种各样的例子表明人们通过人，比如使徒 们，以各种方式接近神，包括最初听到福音，而且正如我们将要看到的，也包括代祷。 Leaving aside the fact that Jesus is himself a man as well as God, there are all sorts of cases where people go to men, like the apostles, to reach God in all sorts of ways, including hearing the Gospel in the first place, but also, as we're going to see, in terms of intercession.
然后，正如我们将要看到的，在旧约中你必须通过祭司才能接近神，这也是不对的。 And then, it's also, as we're going to see, not true that in the Old Covenant you had to go to a priest to get to God.
我们在旧约和新约中都能看到人们不通过代祷者直接向神祈祷。 We find people praying directly to God without an intercessor in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament.
所以这五个论点都不对，但你会经常听到这五点的各种变体。 So none of those five claims are true, but you'll hear variations of those five things regularly said.
现在，当我们讨论对祈祷的错误理解时，我要更详细 地解释在旧约和新约中人们是如何直接向神祈祷的。 Now, I'm going to unpack a little bit more on how in the Old Testament as well as in the New Testament people pray directly to God when we look at getting prayer wrong.
但现在，我只想专注于关于代祷的说法：即耶稣是我们唯一的代祷者，我们 不能通过任何其他人，而在旧约中你必须通过代祷者——这些都不是真的。 But right now, I want to focus just on the intercessory claims: the idea that Jesus is our only intercessor, we're not allowed to go through any other man, and that in the Old Testament you had to go through an intercessor—none of that is true.
所以如果你在记他的五个论点，这是第一、第四和第五个论点。 So that's claims one, four, and five if you're keeping track of his five claims.
我认为可以说，这里经常被错误引用和完全断章取义的段落之一 是提摩太前书二章五节的上半句。经上说：「因为只有一位神， 在神和人中间，也只有一位中保，乃是降世为人的基督耶稣。」 And I think it would suffice to say that one of the passages that regularly gets mis-cited here and taken totally out of context is the first half of the sentence in 1 Timothy 2, verse 5. It says, For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
依赖这节经文的新教徒往往在第五节就停下来，尽管这只是一句话的一半。 Protestants who lean on this verse tend to stop at verse 5, even though it's half of a sentence.
为什么他们要这样做？ And why do they do that?
因为如果你读第六节，就会发现这根本不是反对代祷的论据。 Because if you read verse 6, then you realize this is not an argument against intercessory prayer whatsoever.
这里是在讲耶稣如何是我们唯一的中保，因为他 舍己作万人的赎价，到了时候这事就证明出来。 That this is talking about how Jesus is our one mediator because he gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was born at the proper time.
称耶稣为我们唯一的中保，是指他通过在十字架上的死亡并为我们 的罪付上代价，成为神和人之间的桥梁，没有人说别人做了这事。 In calling Jesus our one mediator, he's the bridge between God and man in the sense that he dies on the cross and pays for our sins, and nobody claims somebody else did that.
没有任何公教会信徒会说：「你知道吗？」 There's no Catholic who is saying, You know what?
「我必须去找蒙席，因为他在十字架上为我的罪而死。」 I've got to go to the monsignor because he died on the cross for my sins.
不，这不是我们的立场。 No, that's not a position.
如果你认为这是公教会的信仰，那完全不是公教会的神学。 If that's what you think Catholics believe, then that's just not Catholic theology at all.
当我们去找地上的人或天上的圣人请求他们祈祷时 ，不是因为我们认为他们为我们死在十字架上。 When we go to those people with us on earth or we go to the saints in heaven and we ask for their prayers, it's not because we think they died on the cross for us.
耶稣是唯一的中保；他是保罗在提摩太前书二章五、六节所说的那 种意义上的唯一中保。但保罗并不是说耶稣是我们唯一的代祷者。 Jesus is the sole mediator; he's the one mediator in the sense that Paul is talking about in 1 Timothy 2, verses 5 and 6. But what Paul is not talking about is that Jesus is our only intercessor.
我们怎么知道这一点？ How do we know that?
通过实际阅读提摩太前书第二章。因为第五、六节是这一章的第三句话。 By actually reading 1 Timothy 2. Because verses 5 and 6 are the third sentence of the chapter.
第一句话是这样开始的：「我劝你，第一要为万人恳求、祷告、代求、祝谢；为 君王和一切在位的，也该如此，使我们可以敬虔、端正、平安无事的度日。」 The first sentence begins this way: First of all then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way.
所以实际上，如果你只读前面两句话，你就会意 识到我们是被召去代祷，而不是被禁止代祷。 So literally, if you just read two sentences before, you'd realize that we are called to intercession, not that we're prohibited from intercession.
我们确实应该成为代祷的子民。 Like, we absolutely should be a people of intercession.
这就是为什么在基督教环境中，如果你周围的人都是基督徒，你不会说，好吧， 我不能为任何人祈祷或代祷，因为他们都是基督徒，他们必须直接向神祷告。 And so that's one of the reasons why, like in a Christian context, if everyone around you is a Christian, you don't say, Well, I'm not allowed to pray or intercede for anybody because they're all Christians, and they have to go directly to God.
荒谬！ Nonsense!
这在圣经中，无论是旧约还是新约都找不到。 That is nowhere written in the Bible, Old or New Testament.
恰恰相反的内容才是写在圣经里的：你要为他们祈祷和代求。 The exact opposite is written: that you are to make prayer and intercession for them.
保罗很清楚地说这是好的，在神面前是可悦纳的。 And Paul is very clear that this is good and it is acceptable in the sight of God.
什么是可悦纳的？ What is?
我们为彼此代祷和祈祷。 Us interceding and praying for one another.
这就是在那句被断章取义来论证我们不能代祷这种完全错误观点的经文之前的两句话。 That is literally the two sentences prior to the one taken out of context to argue this totally false vision that we're not allowed to have intercession.
那么，关于对祈祷的错误理解呢？ So then, what about getting prayer wrong?
我说过要谈到这一点，我打算现在就谈。 I said I was going to get to that, and I intend to do so.
与其用一段录音，这里有一本书我认为最清楚地表达了我在别处听到过的论点。 Instead of using a clip, there's actually a book that I think does the clearest job of presenting an argument I've heard elsewhere.
这本书叫做《基督教信仰的希伯来基础》。 The book is called Hebrew Foundations of the Christian Faith.
我并不是说这是什么伟大的、备受尊重的书。 And I'm not claiming it's any great, well-respected book.
我不是要贬低这本书；我只是说我引用它不是因为每个人都喜欢这本书之类的原因。 I don't mean that to knock the book; I just mean I'm not citing it because everybody loves this book or something like that.
我引用它是因为我以前听过这种论点的各种版本，而且认为这本书清楚地表达了某种观点。 I'm citing it because I've heard variations of this argument before and think this clearly presents a sort of vision.
因为这不仅仅是说，哦，圣殿的帘幔裂开了；所以我是对的。 Because it's not just, Oh, the temple veil's torn; therefore, I'm right.
他在解释为什么他认为圣殿帘幔裂开意味着他是对的。 He's explaining why he thinks the temple veil being torn means that he's right.
这是大卫·汉普郡所说的：由于耶稣的死，对那些想 要认识神和亲近神的人来说，这现在成为可能了。 So this is David Hampshire, and here's what he says: As a result of Jesus' death, for those who wish to know and draw near to God, this is now possible.
当一个门徒请求耶稣教导他们如何祷告时，耶稣回答说：「你们祷告的时候， 要说：我们在天上的父，愿人都尊你的名为圣」（路加福音11:1）。对他 的门徒来说，普通人能够直接向神祷告是不寻常的；因此才有这个问题。 When one of the disciples asked Jesus to teach them how to pray, Jesus replied, 'When you pray, say, Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name' (Luke 11:1). For his disciples, thinking of ordinary people being able to pray directly to God would have been unusual; hence the question.
随着圣殿帘幔的裂开，使所有想要亲近神的人都能接近神，他的牺牲，作 为一种帘幔（希伯来书10:20），是我们能够亲近神的唯一方式。 Following the tearing of the temple veil, enabling access for all who wish to draw near to God, the sacrifice of himself, a type of veil (Hebrews 10:20), is the only way that we can approach God.
好的，这里有几点我觉得值得肯定。 Okay, so there are a couple of things that I appreciate about this.
首先，他确实在试图提出论据。 First, he's actually trying to make an argument.
他查考圣经，然后试图说明这如何支持他对圣殿帘幔的理解。 He's looking at Scripture and then trying to show how that means what he believes about the temple veil.
所以我赞赏他在提出论据；我赞赏他试图引用圣经。 So I appreciate that he's making an argument; I appreciate that he's trying to incorporate Scripture.
问题是他引用的两节经文实际上与他所主张的相矛盾。 The problem is the two verses that he cites actually contradict the claims that he's making.
希伯来书10:20并没有将耶稣的牺牲解释为这是我们被允许亲近神 的唯一方式，路加福音11:1也没有说人们向神祷告是不寻常的。 Hebrews 10:20 doesn't interpret Jesus' sacrifice to say this is the only way we're allowed to go to God, and Luke 11:1 doesn't say it was unusual for people to be praying to God.
所以汉普郡提出了两个明显的论点，这些论点我也看到 很多其他人似乎在提出，但往往没有说得这么清楚。 So Hampshire is making two apparent claims, and again, these are ones that I've seen lots of other people seemingly making but often not spelling out quite this clearly.
第一点是，你知道，在圣殿帘幔裂开之前，普通人根本不直接向神祷告。 The first thing is, you know, before the temple veil was torn, ordinary people just didn't pray directly to God.
看到普通人祷告会非常奇怪；你会说，什么？ It'd be super weird to see a regular guy praying; you'd be like, What?
你不能那样做！ You can't do that!
你必须是祭司或蒙席之类的才能那样做。 You have to be a priest or a monsignor or something to do that.
这就是他们的想法——认为犹太教一定是这个样子的。 That's kind of the idea—that was what Judaism must have looked like.
而且提出这种说法的人从来不想问问，那么，今天的 犹太人，当他们没有圣殿时，是否直接向神祷告？ And the people making this claim never think to ask, Well, Jews today, when they don't have a temple, do they pray directly to God?
这是怎么回事？ What's going on there?
甚至没有这种程度的思考：嗯，我一直在对旧约做这种说 法；这与我们在旧约中看到的人们祷告的情况相符吗？ There's not even that level of, Huh, I've been making this claim about the Old Covenant; does this match up with what we see about people praying in the Old Covenant?
完全没有这种思考。 There's none of that.
但这是一种流行的观念，许多新教徒似乎认为在旧约中你必须通过祭司才能祷告。 But this is a popular belief, and many Protestants seem to think you had to go through a priest to pray in the Old Covenant.
第二个明显的说法是，帘幔裂开意味着因为耶稣在 十字架上的死，我们现在可以在祷告中亲近神。 The second apparent claim is that the torn temple veil means that because of Jesus' death on the cross, we can now draw close to God in prayer.
好，现在，你可能已经猜到，我不同意这两点。 Okay, now, as you may suspect, I disagree with both of these.
事实上，我认为这两点都是可以证明是错误的。 In fact, I think both of these are demonstrably false.
那么这是如何错误理解祷告的呢？ So how does this get prayer wrong?
嗯，有几个方面。 Well, a few ways.
让我们从路加福音11章1节开始，这节经文与这整个 观点相矛盾，记住，这是他试图引用的两节经文之一。 Let's start with the fact that Luke 11, verse 1, contradicts this whole vision, which again, remember, this is one of the two verses that he's trying to point to.
耶稣在一个地方祷告，祷告完了，有一个门徒对他说 ：「求主教导我们祷告，像约翰教导他的门徒。」 Jesus is praying in a certain place, and when he's done praying, one of the disciples says to him, 'Lord, teach us to pray, as John taught his disciples.'
那么，约翰撕裂圣殿的帘幔了吗？ Now, did John tear the temple veil?
不。他们是在说，我们从来不知道我们可以祷告，但约翰告诉他的门徒他们可以吗？ No. Were they saying, We've never known that we were allowed to pray, but John told his disciples they were?
不是。这是一个简单得多的故事。 No. This is a much simpler story.
他们想学习如何更好地祷告，所以他们去找他们的老师请 教如何祷告，就像基督徒2000年来一直在做的那样。 They want to learn how to pray better, so they're going to their master and asking how to pray, the same way Christians still do 2,000 years on.
实际上，如果你和一个有属灵指导或对他人有某种属灵权柄的人交谈，或者他们 在指导某人，我几乎可以保证他们最常回答的问题之一就是：我该如何祷告？ Literally, if you talk to someone who has spiritual direction or is in some sort of spiritual authority over someone else, or they're mentoring someone, any of those things, I can just about guarantee one of the most common questions they answer is, How do I pray?
不是问，因为圣殿的帘幔我可以祷告吗？ Not, Am I allowed to pray because of the temple veil?
而是，我想知道如何与神交谈。 but just, I want to know how to talk to God.
当你刚开始做这件事时，会感到陌生和困惑。 And it's strange and confusing when you first start to do it.
所以使徒们是在努力学习更好地祷告。 And so the apostles are trying to pray better.
他们之前就祷告；这不是他们第一次祷告。 They prayed before this; this isn't the first time they're praying.
他们只是在试图学习如何正确地做。 They're just trying to learn how to do it right.
这就是路加福音11章1节。它预设他们可以祷告，不仅如此，约翰已经在教导这个了。 That's Luke 11, verse 1. It presupposes they can pray, and not only that, but that John has already been teaching this.
事实上，不仅仅是约翰。 In fact, it's not just John.
对耶稣和门徒的批评不是因为他们祷告很奇怪；恰恰相反。 One of the knocks against Jesus and the disciples wasn't that they were so weird because they prayed; it was literally the opposite.
在路加福音5章33节，对耶稣和门徒，或至少对门徒的批评是，他们在祷告 上松懈——与施洗约翰甚至法利赛人相比，他们似乎对祷告和禁食不够认真。 In Luke 5, verse 33, the knock on Jesus and the disciples, or at least on the disciples, was that they were slack in prayer—that they didn't seem to take prayer and fasting seriously enough compared to John the Baptist and even the Pharisees.
所以认为这是耶稣带给普通人的某种激进的新事物的想法，明显与新约相矛盾。 So the idea that this was some radical new thing that Jesus was bringing to ordinary people is just plainly contradicted by the New Testament.
不，令人惊讶的不是他们在祷告；令人惊讶的是他们似乎祷告得不够。 No, the surprising thing wasn't that they were praying; the surprising thing was that they didn't seem to be praying enough.
然后，到了路加福音18章，你看到耶稣的比喻，讲到两个人上圣殿去祷告。 Then, jumping forward to Luke 18, you've got Jesus' parable where he talks about two men going up to the temple to pray.
一个是法利赛人，另一个是税吏。 One of them is a Pharisee, the other a tax collector.
在犹太人的生活中，很难找到两个更不相同的人，但他们都觉得可以直接向神祷告。 Now, in Jewish life, you could hardly get two more unlike people, and yet both of them feel comfortable going directly to God to pray.
所以认为在犹太教中人们不能这样做的想法显然是错误的。 So this idea that people couldn't do that in Judaism is just plainly false.
这仅仅是从新约的证据来看。 That's just looking at New Testament evidence.
你还可以引用大量旧约的证据。 You could bring in a wealth of Old Testament evidence.
你可以引用像第一世纪会堂碑文这样的东西。 You could bring in things like first-century synagogue inscriptions.
我是说，有很多很好的例子证明人们确实在祷告。 I mean, there are a lot of good examples of the fact that people did pray.
在马太福音第6章，耶稣说，你们祷告的时候。 In Matthew chapter 6, Jesus says, When you pray.
现在注意，他在对人说话，并没有说，你们知道你们能祷告吗？ Now notice, he's talking to people and doesn't say, Did you know you were able to pray?
他只是在告诉他们祷告时该怎么做。 He's just telling them what to do when they pray.
事实上，他要告诉他们如何做。 In fact, he's going to tell them how to do it.
你们祷告的时候，不可像那假冒为善的人。 When you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites.
哦，所以不仅耶稣的听众在祷告，就连假冒为善的人也在祷告。 Oh, so not only are Jesus' listeners praying, but even the hypocrites are praying.
区别不在于谁认为自己可以祷告；区别在于如何祷告，而假冒为善的人祷告得不好。 The difference isn't who thinks they can pray; the difference is how, and the hypocrites are praying badly.
怎么不好？ How?
他们喜欢站在会堂里和街道拐角处祷告，故意让人看见。 Well, they love to stand and pray in synagogues and street corners that they may be seen by men.
耶稣警告说他们已经得了他们的赏赐，因为他们 祷告不是为了让神听见，而是为了让别人听见。 And Jesus warns they've had their reward because they weren't really praying to be heard by God; they were praying to be heard by others.
然后他说，你们祷告，不可像外邦人用许多重复话。 Then he says, When you're praying, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do.
所以不仅普通犹太人，从法利赛人到税吏都祷告，约翰的门徒也祷告 ，法利赛人的门徒和假冒为善的人也祷告——甚至外邦人也祷告。 So not only did ordinary Jews, from the Pharisees to the tax collectors, pray, but also the disciples of John prayed, and the disciples of the Pharisees and the hypocrites—even the Gentiles prayed.
这根本不是新教徒所说的那种突破性的改变。 This was just not the radical breakthrough Protestants claim it to be.
人们都在祷告——犹太人和外邦人，假冒为善的和谦卑的，法利赛人和税吏。 People prayed—Jewish and Gentile, hypocrite and humble, Pharisee and tax collector.
在旧约中人们直接向神祷告。 People prayed in the Old Covenant directly to God.
那么耶稣做了什么？ So what does Jesus do?
他回应说要用天主经祷告：你们要这样祷告。 Well, he responds by giving the Our Father: Pray then like this.
这就是他在路加福音11章1节和马太福音6章9节平行经文中所做的。 但这里有个问题：如果我们能够直接向神祷告的唯一原因是因为耶稣死在 十字架上时帘幔裂开了，那么他怎么能在他死之前就给他们天主经呢？ And that's what he does in Luke 11, verse 1, and in the parallel account in Matthew 6, verse 9. But here's the issue: if the only way we're able to pray directly to God is because when Jesus dies on the cross, the temple veil is torn, how does he give them the Our Father now, prior to his death?
所以认为帘幔裂开意味着我们现在可以直接向神祷告的想法， 也与耶稣在世时就教导他们直接向天父祷告的事实相矛盾。 So the idea that the torn veil means we can now pray directly to God is also contradicted by the fact that Jesus is giving them prayer directly to the Father during his lifetime.
所以是的，关于祷告的这两个说法完全是错误的。 So yeah, those two claims about prayer are totally wrong.
如果你想知道为什么他们错了，是因为他们混淆了祷告和敬拜。 If you want to know why they're wrong, they're confusing prayer and worship.
我有另一个视频更深入地探讨这个问题，但现在只要说明有 一件事只能在圣殿里做，而且需要祭司，但那不是祷告。 I've got another video where I explore that in much greater depth, but for now, it's enough to say there was something you could only do in the temple, and that required the priests, but it wasn't prayer.
那么新教徒常见的错误假设是什么？ So what are the common false Protestant assumptions?
据我所见，有三个主要的错误假设。 As I see it, there are three major ones.
第一：在耶稣死之前，人们不能或不可以直接向神祷告。 Number one: before Jesus' death, people didn't or couldn't pray directly to God.
正如我们刚才看到的，这是错误的。 As we've just seen, that is false.
第二个假设是，我们现在能直接向神祷告只是因 为耶稣在十字架上的死使圣殿的帘幔裂开了。 The second assumption is that we can now pray directly to God only because of Jesus' death on the cross tearing the temple veil.
好吧，我们已经看到天主经是在那之前就赐下的，所以这也是错误的。 Well, we already saw the Our Father was given before that happened, so that's false.
第三个假设是，耶稣在十字架上的死消除了祷告中的代祷。 The third assumption is that Jesus' death on the cross eliminates prayerful intercession.
我们摆脱了所有的中间人，因为现在我们可以直接到神面前 ，因为圣殿的帘幔裂开了，但我们已经看到这是错误的。 We get rid of all the middlemen because we can now go directly to God because the temple veil is torn, and we've seen that's false.
代祷在基督教中继续存在；它是被鼓励的，而且被描述为好的。 Intercession continues in Christianity; it's encouraged and described as good.
好，所以这三件事都是错误的。 Okay, so those three things are false.
这些是常见的误解和错误假设，是新教徒听到圣殿帘幔裂开就得出错误结论的原因。 Those are common misconceptions and faulty assumptions that underlie why Protestants hear the temple veil is torn and jump to wrong conclusions.
我们应该如何解释它？ How should we interpret it?
因为显然，圣殿帘幔裂开是重要的。 Because clearly, the tearing of the temple veil is important.
它不是新教徒认为的那个意思，但这并不意味着它没有意义。 The fact that it doesn't mean what Protestants think it means doesn't mean it doesn't mean anything.
这句话说得不好，但你明白我的意思。 That was a bad sentence, but you get what I'm saying.
这显然是基督教中的一个重要时刻。 It clearly is an important moment in Christianity.
那么到底是怎么回事？ So what is going on?
要理解这一点，我们必须明白有些事情必须在圣殿里进行。 Well, to understand it, we have to go to the fact that there's something that had to happen in the temple.
在约翰福音第4章耶稣与撒玛利亚妇人对话时提到了这一点。 We get this alluded to in John chapter 4 when Jesus is speaking to the Samaritan woman.
她对他说：「先生，我看出你是先知。」 She says to him, Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet.
「我们的祖宗在这山上（就是基利心山）敬拜， 你们倒说，应当敬拜的地方是在耶路撒冷。」 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain (that's Mount Gerizim), and you say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
那么，在耶路撒冷哪里敬拜呢？ Well, where do you worship in Jerusalem?
圣殿。 The temple.
所以有一种叫做敬拜的事，如果你是撒玛利亚人就在基利心 山上进行，如果你是犹太人就在耶路撒冷的圣殿里进行。 So there is something called worship that is done on Mount Gerizim if you're a Samaritan, or in the temple in Jerusalem if you're a Jew.
那里发生了什么？ What's going on there?
这显然与祷告不同，祷告可以在任何地方进行，人们到处都在祷告。 It's clearly something different than prayer, which could happen anywhere, and people were doing it everywhere.
普通人都在做，而且不需要祭司。 Ordinary people were doing it, and it didn't take priests.
那么敬拜与祷告有什么区别？ So what is worship as distinct from prayer?
埃弗雷特·弗格森在他的《早期教会的敬拜工作》第三 卷中，虽然他是新教学者，但他对这一点说得很准确。 Everett Ferguson, in volume 3 of his book The Early Church at Work in Worship, he's a Protestant scholar, but he nails this right on the head.
他说，既然献祭是古代世界普遍的敬拜语言，那么 用这些术语来解释耶稣之死的意义就很自然了。 He says, Since sacrifice was the universal language of worship in the ancient world, it was natural that the significance of Jesus' death should be interpreted in those terms.
所以他在这里说了两件事。 So there are two things he's saying there.
第一：如果你想理解在古代世界敬拜的含义，普遍来说就是献祭。 Number one: if you want to understand what worship meant in the ancient world, universally it was sacrifice.
第二：这是从早期基督徒的角度理解耶稣在十字架上的死的关键。 And number two: this is the key to making sense of Jesus' death on the cross from an early Christian perspective.
这就是基督徒如何理解受难日的意义——通过他们已有的世界背景， 无论是犹太人还是外邦人，都明白在向神献祭时需要献祭和敬拜。 This is how Christians understood the significance of Good Friday—through the backdrop of a world that they already had, Jewish and Gentile alike, about the necessity of sacrifice and worship in making an offering to God.
耶稣正在成全这一切。 Jesus is fulfilling this.
弗格森接着说，希伯来书最充分地发展了关于耶稣之死的献祭意象。 Ferguson goes on to say that the Epistle to the Hebrews most fully developed the sacrificial imagery in reference to Jesus' death.
如果你想看到这一点，就读希伯来书，但要以早 期基督徒、犹太人或异教徒的思维方式来读。 If you want to see this in action, read Hebrews, but read it with an early Christian or Jewish or pagan perspective mindset.
你知道，要用第一世纪那些背景的人的方式来看待它。 You know, look at it the way someone in the first century, coming from one of those backgrounds, would read it.
不要带着对第一世纪的误解而产生的现代新教误解来读它。 Don't read it with modern Protestant misconceptions that are built on a misunderstanding of what the first century was like.
所以希伯来书，我们马上就要看，实际上解释了如何理解这段经文。 So Hebrews, we're going to look at it shortly here, actually explains how to make sense of this passage.
好的，这里还有一个转折，因为耶稣回应撒玛利亚妇人时，接受了这个框架，但告诉她时候 将到，如今就是了，那真正敬拜父的要用心灵和诚实敬拜他，因为父要这样的人敬拜他。 Okay, there's one more twist to this because Jesus, in response to the Samaritan woman, accepts this framework but tells her that the hour is coming and now is when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him.
所以他来不是要改变祷告；他来是要改变敬拜。 So he's not coming to change prayer; he's coming to change worship.
现在，他来不是要废除它。 Now, he's not coming to abolish it.
他不是说你不再需要敬拜了；你不再需要献祭了。 He's not saying you don't need worship anymore; you don't need sacrifice anymore.
但他来是要改变它，他在十字架上以一种真正独特和根本的方式改变了它。 But he's coming to transform it, and he does transform it on the cross in this really unique and radical sort of way.
这就是关键所在。 And so that's going to be the key.
如果你想理解圣殿帘幔裂开的含义，你不仅需要 知道什么是敬拜，还要知道是什么使圣殿特别。 If you want to understand the torn temple veil, you need to know not only what worship is but what made the temple special.
我已经提到了两件事中的一件，但这两件事是紧密相连的。 I've already alluded to one of the two things, but it's two things that are closely connected.
第一：圣殿是神同在的地方。 Number one: the temple is the place of divine presence.
圣殿是神所在之处。 The temple is where God is.
这并不排除其他地方，但这意味着神以特殊的方式住在圣殿中。 That's not to the exclusion of other places, but it means that God, in a special way, resides in the temple.
第二：圣殿是敬拜和献祭的地方。 And number two: the temple is a place of worship and sacrifice.
从某种意义上说，在这种古代的敬拜观念中，这 其实是重复的——因为献祭就是敬拜的语言。 And that really, in a way, is redundant in this ancient kind of vision of worship—that sacrifice is the language of worship.
那么你要在哪里献祭呢？ And where are you going to offer sacrifice?
你要在哪里敬拜呢？ Where are you going to worship?
你要去神所在的地方。 You're going to go where God is.
那就是圣殿。 And that's the temple.
这就是为什么你要去基利心山，为什么你要去耶路撒冷的圣殿，这 也是为什么如果你是异教徒，你会去你认为众神可能在的神龛。 And so that's why you went to Mount Gerizim, that's why you went to the temple in Jerusalem, and that's why if you were a pagan, you went to one of the shrines where you thought the gods might be.
这些是神居住的地方，或者被认为是神居住的地方 ，这就是你要去与真神或假神相遇相交的地方。 These were places of divine indwelling or were believed to be, and that's where you would go to have these encounters of communion, either with the true God or with your false gods.
这就是古代世界中圣殿的含义。 That's what a temple was in the ancient world.
所以当我们谈论圣殿时，你需要理解这两个特征—— 这是神同在的地方，也是神圣敬拜和献祭的地方。 So when we're talking about temples, that's what you need to understand: those two features—this is a place of divine presence and a place of divine worship and sacrifice.
耶稣没有废除这个，但他确实改变了它。 Jesus doesn't abolish this, but he does transform it.
那么基督教的圣殿在哪里？ So where is the Christian temple?
如果圣殿与敬拜的概念密切相关，而且圣殿当然也与理解圣 殿帘幔密切相关，那么，我们在基督教中在哪里看到圣殿？ If the temple is closely connected to this idea of worship, and if the temple is closely connected, of course, to making sense of the temple veil, well, where do we see the temple in Christianity?
有三个地方。 There are three places.
第一：在耶稣的肉身中。 Number one: in Jesus' physical body.
当他行走在世上时，他就是神的殿。 As he's walking around, he is the temple of God.
这说得通，对吧？ Makes sense, right?
这是神同在的最完美的地方。 This is a place of divine presence par excellence.
第二：在他的奥秘身体中，就是基督的身体，教会。 Number two: in his mystical body, the body of Christ, the Church.
第三：在已经被纳入他身体的个别信徒中。 And number three: in the individual believers who have been incorporated into his body.
让我们看看新约如何指向这三个答案。 So let's see how the New Testament points to all three of those answers.
第一：当耶稣在约翰福音第2章说：「你们拆毁这殿，我三日内要 再建立起来」，约翰明确告诉我们他是指着他的身体的殿说的。 Number one: when Jesus, in John 2, says, Destroy this temple, and in three days I'll rebuild it, John tells us explicitly he spoke of the temple of his body.
这再清楚不过了——这个根本性的转变就是耶路撒冷的圣殿不再是敬拜的焦点。 This is as clear as it's going to get—that the radical transformation is no longer the temple in Jerusalem as the focus of worship.
现在，作为耶稣身体的圣殿是敬拜的焦点。 Now, the temple that is the body of Jesus is the focus of worship.
这就是发生在这里的方向转变。 That is the redirection that has gone on here.
当然，这是说得通的。 And of course, this makes sense.
歌罗西书第2章描述了神本性一切的丰盛都有形有体地居住在耶稣 里面，神在基督里的居住方式超越了他曾在约柜至圣所中的居住。 Colossians 2 describes how in Jesus, the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, that God dwells in Christ in a way beyond how he ever dwelt in the Holy of Holies in the Ark of the Covenant.
这比那个居所更加根本。 This is something more radical than that dwelling place.
耶稣的身体是完美的圣殿。 The body of Jesus is the perfect temple.
如果你理解圣殿是神同在的地方和献祭的地方，那么，我们在哪里看到献祭？ If you understand the temple as the place of divine presence and the place where sacrifice is made, well, where do we see the sacrifice?
当然，我们在十字架上看到了。 Of course, we see that on the cross.
第二，当我们谈论教会时，圣保罗称它为神的家。 Second, when we talk about the Church, St. Paul refers to it as the household of God.
它建造在使徒的根基上，有基督耶稣自己为房角石，一同增长成为主里的圣殿。 It's built on the foundation of the apostles, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone, growing together into a holy temple in the Lord.
所以，如果你现在想在地上遇见耶稣基督，你要去他的身体；你要去教会。 So this is where, if you want to encounter Jesus Christ on earth now, you go to his body; you go to the Church.
这是圣经的描述。 That is the biblical depiction.
称教会为基督的身体就是称教会为道成肉身的延续。 To call the Church the body of Christ is to call the Church a continuation of the Incarnation.
如果耶稣历史上的肉身是圣殿，这就意味着教会也是主里的圣殿。 And if Jesus' historic physical body is a temple, that means the Church is also a holy temple in the Lord.
这是神同在在世上显明的地方，也是神圣献祭发生的地方。 This is where divine presence is made manifest in the world, and this is where divine sacrifice happens.
第三，我们每个人的身体都应当受到尊重，因为正如圣保 罗在哥林多前书第6章所说，你们的身体是圣灵的殿。 Third, each of our own bodies is to be respected because, as St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6, Your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit.
如果你受了洗并与基督联合，有圣父、圣子、圣灵住在 你里面，你也是神居住的地方，这就是圣殿的含义。 If you have been baptized and incorporated into Christ, and you have the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit living within you, you're also a place of divine dwelling, which is what the temple is.
这也意味着你的身体，作为圣殿，是你可以献祭的地方。 And that means as well that your body, as a temple, is a place where you can offer sacrifice.
现在，你偶尔会发现新教徒听到用心灵和诚实献祭 的观念时会说，啊，这是属灵的；不是身体的。 Now, occasionally you'll find Protestants who hear this idea of sacrificing in spirit and truth, and they'll say, Ah, it's spiritual; it's not bodily.
这严重误解了圣经对身体和灵的论述，特别是圣保罗在罗马书12 章说：「所以弟兄们，我以神的慈悲劝你们，将身体献上，当作活 祭，是圣洁的，是神所喜悦的，你们如此事奉乃是理所当然的。」 That badly misunderstands the biblical treatment of body and spirit, particularly in St. Paul, who says in Romans 12, I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
那属灵的敬拜就是身体的敬拜。 That spiritual worship is bodily worship.
这就是基督徒敬拜的样式。 That's what it looks like as a Christian.
它总是身体的敬拜，因为它与你的身体相连，而你的身体 是圣殿，它也与基督的身体相连，而基督的身体是圣殿。 It's always bodily worship because it's connected with your body, which is a temple, and it's connected to the body of Christ, which is a temple.
所以这必然是身体的敬拜，就像如果你是旧约中的犹太人，就必然是圣殿的敬拜一样。 So it's inescapably bodily worship in the same way that if you were a Jew in the Old Covenant, it would be inescapably temple worship.
好，这是一个有点迂回的解释方式，但这如何解释帘幔裂开的含义呢？ Okay, so that's been a little bit of a roundabout way of getting there, but how does this make sense then of the torn veil?
好吧，正如我所说，我们必须去看希伯来书来解释这一点。 Well, as I said, we have to go to Hebrews for that explanation.
在希伯来书第8章，它看旧约的祭司职分，描述这些事如何作为天上圣所的副本和影子。 In Hebrews 8, it's looking at the Old Testament priesthood and describes how these things serve as a copy and shadow of the heavenly sanctuary.
第一个约，旧约，摩西的祭司职分——这一切都是预表天上的实体，作为副本和影子。 The first covenant, the Old Covenant, the Mosaic priesthood—all of that is prefiguring a heavenly reality, and it serves as a copy and shadow.
然后在第6节，所以旧约预表新约；旧的祭司职 分预表新的祭司职分；旧的中保预表新的中保。 And then in verse 6, so the Old Covenant prefigures the New Covenant; the old priesthood prefigures the new priesthood; the old mediation prefigures the new mediation.
这一切都在希伯来书中。 All of that is right there in Hebrews.
在第9章，作者接着说，就是前约也有敬拜的条例和属世的圣所。 In chapter 9, the author goes on to say that even the first covenant had regulations for worship in an earthly sanctuary.
所以即使是旧约，作为新约的预表，也有属世圣所中敬拜的条例。 So even the Old Covenant, which is just a prefigurement of the New Covenant, has regulations for worship in an earthly sanctuary.
现在，这个'就是'一词暗示这在新约中也是如 此——被应验的事物并不优于应验它的事物。 Now, that word even suggests that that's also going to be true of the New Covenant—that the thing that's being fulfilled isn't superior to the thing that fulfills it.
预表不会比被预表的事物更好。 The foreshadowing isn't better than the thing being foreshadowed.
说旧约敬拜有敬拜的条例，天上的敬拜有敬拜的条例，但基督教的敬拜却不 应该有条例，这说不通，因为基督教正是从旧约到天上敬拜相遇的历程。 It doesn't make sense to say Old Covenant worship had regulations for worship, heavenly worship has regulations for worship, but there should be no regulations for worship in Christianity, which is on this journey from the Old Covenant to the heavenly encounter of worship.
这说不通，对吧？ It doesn't make sense, right?
你不能说过去是为了预表将来，而现在却应该与过去和将来完全不同。 You can't say the past was set up to prefigure the future, and the present should look totally unlike the past and the future.
如果你的敬拜看起来不像天上的敬拜，作为基督徒这是个问题。 If your worship doesn't look like heavenly worship, that's a problem as a Christian.
我们知道旧约的敬拜看起来像天上的敬拜，因为希伯来书 第8章刚告诉我们天上的敬拜更好，但它是在预表那个。 And we know Old Covenant worship looked like heavenly worship because Hebrews 8 just told us that heavenly worship is better, but it's prefiguring that.
所以当你看犹太圣殿礼仪和弥撒时，你会看到这些对应关系。 So when you look at Jewish temple liturgies and you look at the Mass, you'll see the comparisons.
这是对公教会常见的批评之一。 This is one of the regular knocks against Catholicism.
但如果希伯来书第8和第9章是对的，那些敬拜的条例是预表新而更美之事的一部分。 But if Hebrews 8 and 9 are right, those regulations for worship are part of this prefigurement of new and better things.
所以我指出这一点，部分是为了与那些认为圣殿帘幔裂开 就废除了敬拜条例、废除了礼仪的人的观点形成对比。 So I point this out partly to contrast this vision you'll hear from people who think that somehow the temple veil gets rid of regulations for worship, gets rid of ritual.
但神已经给我们传达了一个信息。 But God had sent us a message.
他说，我的儿子已经使你们容易进入我的同在，当 你们进入我的同在时，要知道你们不再是局外人。 He said, My Son has made it easy so that you could come into my presence, and coming into my presence, know that you're no longer on the outside.
不再需要仪式了；耶稣开辟了通往神的新道路。 There were no rituals needed; Jesus made a new way to God.
所以是的，你会注意到这不是希伯来书第9章说'就是前约也有敬拜的条例'的意思。 So yeah, you'll notice that is just not what Hebrews 9 says when it says even the first covenant had regulations for worship.
它预设新约也有条例，然后举例说明旧约敬拜条例是什么样的，这涉及到旧约的圣殿。 It's presupposing the New Covenant does as well, and then it gives an example of what those Old Covenant regulations for worship looked like, and it involves the old temple.
现在，我们已经看到基督教有圣殿。 Now, we've already seen Christianity has a temple.
它有三重意义的圣殿：基督的身体，你的身体，教会，和耶稣历史上的身体。 It has a threefold sense of temple: it's the body of Christ, your body, the Church, and Jesus' historic body.
在预表这些的旧约中，外面有一个外帐幕，其中有灯台、桌子和陈设饼，这叫做圣所。 And in the Old Covenant, which prefigures that, there was on the outside an outer tent in which there was a lampstand and a table and the bread of the presence, called the Holy Place.
现在，圣所要与至圣所区分开来，至圣所是最圣洁的地方。 Now, the Holy Place is to be contrasted from the Holy of Holies, which is the holiest place.
但你会注意到已经有了陈设饼。 But you'll notice there's already that bread of the presence.
好吧，如果这是在某种程度上预表基督的身体，这让你想到什么？ Well, if this is somehow prefiguring the body of Christ, what does that sound like to you?
因为这对我来说听起来很像圣餐。 Because that sounds to me quite Eucharistic.
事实上，当你更深入，越过第二层幔子，你进入 至圣所，你会发现金香坛和四面包金的约柜。 In fact, when you go deeper, beyond the second set of curtains, you go into the Holy of Holies and you find the golden altar of incense and the Ark of the Covenant, covered on all sides with gold.
里面有盛吗哪的金罐，这吗哪是从天上来的粮，耶稣在约翰福音第6章称 自己为从天上来的真粮。所以这是天使的粮，它预表新约中的某些事物。 It contains a golden urn with the manna, the bread from heaven, which Jesus describes himself as the true bread from heaven in John 6. So this is the bread of angels, and it's prefiguring something in the New Covenant.
记住第一个约中的一切是如何预表新约中的事物的。 Remember how everything in the first covenant is prefiguring things in the New Covenant.
再一次，这看起来很像圣餐。 Once again, this looks very Eucharistic.
然后，跳过一节半，这些物件都预备如此，祭司就常进头一层帐幕，行拜神的礼。 Then, jumping a verse and a half ahead, these preparations having thus been made, the priests go continually into the outer tent performing their ritual duties.
但在第二层帐幕，惟有大祭司一年一次独自进去 ，没有不带着血，为自己和百姓的过错献上。 But in the second one, the high priest goes in but once a year and not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the errors of the people.
现在注意这里大祭司，特别是他，而且只有他，能够做什么。 Now notice here what it is that the priest, and the high priest specifically, and he alone, is able to do.
不是向神祷告，而是献赎罪祭。 Not pray to God, but to make atoning sacrifice.
这是敬拜的行为——不是祷告，而是敬拜，就像向神献祭来解决百姓的罪。 That's this act of worship—not prayer, but worship, like sacrificial offering to God to resolve the sins of the people.
这与同时在圣殿中向神祈求怜悯的人所做的是不同的事。 That's a different kind of thing than the people who are in the temple at the same time praying to God for mercy.
他们是在献上祷告，但祭司是在献上敬拜和祭物。 They're offering prayer, but the priest is offering worship and sacrifice.
让我们从第9章跳到第10章，因为这一切都要应验。 Let's jump ahead then from chapter 9 to chapter 10 because this is all going to be fulfilled.
耶稣在十字架上的死确实废除了祭司献祭角色的旧中保职分。 Jesus' death on the cross does get rid of that old mediation of the priest's sacrificial role.
我们不再需要献动物为祭了。 We don't need to offer animal sacrifice anymore.
为什么？ Why?
因为我们有了新而更好的祭物和新而更好的祭司。 Because we have a new and better victim and a new and better priest.
所以希伯来书10章19节说：「弟兄们，我们既因耶稣的血得以坦然进入至圣所。」 So Hebrews 10, verse 19 says, Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the sanctuary.
再次注意这圣殿的用语，藉着耶稣的血，藉着他给我们开了 一条又新又活的路，从幔子经过，这幔子就是他的身体。 Notice again the temple language, by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way which he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh.
在这里停一下。 Pause there.
如果你想理解圣殿帘幔裂开的含义，希伯来书第 10章说你需要认识到这就是基督裂开的身体。 If you want to understand the tearing of the temple veil, Hebrews 10 says you need to realize that it's the torn flesh of Christ.
耶路撒冷圣殿中帘幔的裂开只是真圣殿中真实帘幔裂开的预表或预像或象征。 The tearing of the temple veil in the temple in Jerusalem is just a foreshadowing or a prefigurement or an image of the tearing of the actual veil in the true temple.
因为记住，在约翰福音第2章，耶稣进入圣殿，说到真正的圣殿就是他自己——他的身体。 Because remember, in John 2, Jesus goes into the temple and speaks of the true temple of himself—his own body.
所以耶路撒冷的圣殿，是的，帘幔裂开了，但那只是真正的 圣殿帘幔裂开的预表，而这真正的帘幔就是基督的身体。 And so the temple in Jerusalem, sure, the veil is torn, but that's just a foreshadowing of the tearing of the true temple veil, which is the flesh of Christ.
这就是我们看到基督肋旁被刺破的含义。 That is where we find this ripping open the side of Christ.
这就是说他藉着他的身体为我们开了一条活路的含义。 That is what it means to say he’s opened up this living way for us through his flesh.
这就是帘幔的含义——他的身体。 That’s what the curtain is—his flesh.
接下来的半句话说：「又有一位大祭司治理神的家，我们就当存着诚心和充足的 信心来到神面前，我们的心既已蒙洁净，无亏的良心，身体用清水洗净了。」 And it goes on to say in the next half of the sentence, And since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart and full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.
所以确实我们现在可以以新的方式接近神的同在。 So it’s true we can now access the presence of God in a new way.
我们以前就能祷告，但现在我们以更深的方式经历他的真实同在。 We could pray before, but we now experience his real presence in a deeper way.
所以我认为这能让圣殿帘幔裂开的事件变得更有意义。 So this is going to make, I think, a lot of sense of what happens with the tearing of the temple veil.
它需要通过这个圣殿的视角来理解，这是非常圣餐性的，因为这一切都围绕着基督的身体， 以及我们现在如何能领受基督的身体，进入一个我们以前无法达到的与神真实关系的层面。 It needs to be read through this temple lens, which is incredibly Eucharistic because it’s all centered around the body of Christ and how we can now receive the body of Christ and enter into this real relationship with God at a level we couldn’t before.
但我也不想错过另一个层面。 But I don’t want to miss one other dimension as well.
我要顺便提一下：如果你这样读，圣殿代表基督，那 么我们可以从某种意义上看到一种神圣的撕裂衣服。 I’m going to mention this in passing: that if you read this, the temple as representative of Christ, then there’s a sort of sense in which we can see a divine tearing of garments.
所以当雅各以为他的儿子约瑟死了，他做了什么？ So when Jacob thinks that his son Joseph is dead, what does he do?
他撕裂衣服（创世记37:34）。这是一个古老的犹太人表达悲伤的方式——撕裂衣服。 He wrings his garments (Genesis 37:34). That’s an old Jewish expression of sorrow—you tear the garments.
所以可以说，圣殿的帘幔裂开是因为基督的衣服，就是他的身体，被撕裂了。 And so the garments of the temple, so to speak, are torn because the garments of Christ, his flesh, are torn.
我认为，这是这里发生的其中一个层面。 That is, I think, one of the dimensions going on here.
但更直接的证据，在希伯来书第10章更明确的说明，是关于基督肋旁的刺破。 But the more directly evidenced one, the one that’s more explicit in Hebrews 10, is that this is about the tearing of the side of Christ.
在约翰福音19章34节，一个兵拿枪扎耶稣的肋旁，随即有血和水流出来。 In John 19, verse 34, one of the soldiers pierces Jesus' side with a spear, and at once there comes out blood and water.
所以我们接近神的新途径是通过基督被刺开的肋旁。 So the new access we have to God is through the open side of Christ.
血和水——这代表什么？ The blood and water—what does that represent?
从基督教最早期开始，这就被理解为代表洗礼和圣餐。 Well, from the earliest days of Christianity, this was understood to represent baptism and the Eucharist.
没有人否认确实有血和水流出来，但他们在其中看到一个象征，就是通过 基督医治的水和医治的血，我们能够以这种深入和持久的方式与神相交。 No one was denying that, yeah, blood and water literally came out, but they saw in that a symbol of the fact that it is through the healing waters and the healing blood of Christ that we’re able to enter into communion with God in this deep and abiding sort of way.
在哥林多前书第10章，圣保罗指出这是基督徒的献祭。 In 1 Corinthians 10, St. Paul points to this as Christian sacrifice.
他说，关注这个频道的人都知道我喜欢这段经文，所以我要再 次引用：他说，我们作为基督徒如何分享基督的身体和血？ He says, and those of you who follow this channel know I love this passage, so I’m going to go to it one more time: he says, How do we as Christians participate in the body and blood of Christ?
我们如何以这种深入的方式进入其中？ How do we enter into this in this deep way?
他用献祭的语言来说明。 Well, he uses the language of sacrifice.
他首先说，因为只有一个饼——或者说一个饼块——我 们虽多，仍是一个身体，因为我们都分享这一个饼。 He says first, Because there is one bread—or literally, like one loaf—we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread.
不知怎的，领受这一个饼，圣餐使我们转变成为基督的身体。 Somehow, receiving the one loaf, the Eucharist transforms us into the body of Christ.
这与圣殿不同；去圣殿不会使你成为圣殿，但去到基督的身体前使你成为基督的身体。 This is unlike the temple; going to the temple didn't make you the temple, but going to the body of Christ makes you the body of Christ.
基督的身体，圣餐，以某种方式造就基督的身体，教会。 There is a way in which the body of Christ, the Eucharist, makes the body of Christ, the Church.
这是奥秘的，这是一个更深的话题，我现在只是提一下，留待将来再充分解释。 That’s mysterious, and that is a much deeper conversation I’m going to just allude to and not explain adequately for another time.
但这如何解释我们能够领受并分享基督的身体和血呢？ But how does that make sense of how we can receive and participate in the body and blood of Christ?
好，正如我所说，这里有两个献祭的例子。 Well, there are going to be, as I said, two sacrificial examples.
第一个，哥林多前书10章18节，是以色列人的做法：那吃祭物的岂不是与祭坛有分吗？ The first one, 1 Corinthians 10, verse 18, is the practice of Israel: Are not those who eat the sacrifices partners in the altar?
如果你明白圣殿中发生的事，当你吃祭物时，你不能进入至圣所献祭。 If you understand what happened in the temple, when you would eat the temple sacrifice, you couldn't go and offer it in the Holy of Holies.
你如何参与其中？ How did you participate?
你吃了它。 You ate it.
同样，你不能死在十字架上，那么你如何参与基督的献祭？ Well, likewise, you can't die on the cross, so how do you join in Christ's sacrifices?
你在圣餐中领受他。 You receive him in the Eucharist.
这就是他在这里说的。 That’s what he’s saying here.
如果这还不够清楚，在第20节，他对异教徒说了同样的话。 And if that wasn't clear enough, in verse 20, he says the same thing about pagans.
他说，关于异教徒的献祭，他们是祭祀鬼魔，不是祭祀神。 He says, implied with pagan sacrifice, They offer to demons and not to God.
我不愿意你们与鬼魔相交。 I do not want you to be partners with demons.
所以当他们向鬼魔献祭时，他们通过这些不圣洁的献祭与鬼魔建立了联系。 So when they would offer demonic sacrifices to demons, they would become partnered with them by making these unholy sacrifices.
所以他说，你们不能喝主的杯又喝鬼魔的杯，不能吃主的筵席又吃鬼魔的筵席。 And so he says, You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.
这里清楚地画出了主的祭杯与鬼魔的祭杯之间的平 行关系，主的祭桌与鬼魔的祭桌之间的平行关系。 There’s a clear parallelism being drawn between the sacrificial cup of the Lord and the sacrificial cup of demons, the sacrificial table of the Lord and the sacrificial table of demons.
说「我们的只是象征，但他们有真实的相交、真实的献祭和真实的参与」是说不 通的，因为这样就使异教和犹太教的仪式看起来比基督教的仪式更好、更有效。 It doesn’t make sense to say, Well, ours is just a symbol, but they had real communion and real sacrifice and real participation, because then you’re making it look like the pagan and the Jewish rites are better, more efficacious than the Christian rites.
其次，这与保罗的整个推理思路也不相符。 But second, it just doesn’t make sense of Paul’s whole line of reasoning.
他预设这是一种献祭，与犹太教或异教中的献祭并无不同。 He’s presupposing that this is a sacrifice not unlike the kind of sacrifices you’d have in Judaism or paganism.
这就带我们——我们已经看过希伯来书8、9和10章。当你读到希伯来书13章10节， 有一句话让许多人困惑，因为作者说：我们有一祭坛，那些在帐幕中供职的人没有权柄吃。 This then brings us—we’ve gone through Hebrews 8, 9, and 10. When you get to Hebrews 13, verse 10, there’s this line that has confused many people because the author says, We have an altar from which those who serve the tent have no right to eat.
那么，那些在帐幕中供职的人是谁？ Well, who are those who serve the tent?
他在这里指的是犹太祭司，他的观点是我们有比至圣所更圣洁的 东西，因为我们有一个祭坛，在那里我们领受神活泼的同在。 He’s referring here to the Jewish priests, and his point is we have something holier than the Holy of Holies because we have an altar in which we receive the living presence of God.
再次说明，你会发现人们对这节经文有不同的解释，但这看起来明显是圣餐的用语。 Again, you’ll find people who interpret that verse in different ways, but it looks like strikingly Eucharistic language.
如果你想理解圣殿帘幔裂开，是的，我们确实有直接和不需中介的途径接近神。 If you want to understand the torn temple veil, yeah, it’s true we have direct and unmediated access to God.
每次我们领受圣餐，我们从祭坛领受的是大祭司在赎罪日只能梦想做到的事。 Every time we receive communion, we are receiving from the altar something that the high priest on Yom Kippur could only dream of doing.
想想看：每个人，无论犹太人还是外邦人，无论地位高低，都可以祷告，而且神无处不在。 Think about it: everyone, Jew and Gentile, high and low, could pray, and God is everywhere.
我们所说的关于圣殿的话，关于圣餐的话，都不否认神的无所不在。 None of what we’re saying about the temple, none of what we’re saying about the Eucharist, denies God’s omnipresence.
但这里有一种更强烈的他同在的实在感。 But there is a greater sense of the reality of his presence.
这在某种程度上是奥秘的。 This is somewhat mysterious.
有一种被称为神的荣光（Shekinah）的东 西，神以某种可感知的方式更多地同在于约柜中。 There’s something that’s called the Shekinah glory of God, that God was somehow more present in a palpable sort of way in the Ark of the Covenant.
整个圣殿就是围绕着约柜建造的，为要提供一个可以来经历神同在的地方。 It was around the Ark that the whole temple was built to allow a place to come and experience the presence of God.
但只有大祭司能进去做这事。 But only the high priest could go in and do that.
你可以靠近；你可以进入圣所，但你不能进入至圣所。 You could come near; you could go to the Holy Place, but you couldn’t go to the Holy of Holies.
希伯来书13章好像在说，你可以做更多的事。 Hebrews 13 is like, Well, you can do something even more than that.
你可以领受那真实的。 You can receive the true.
记住，耶稣比耶路撒冷的圣殿更真实地是圣殿，因 为在耶稣里面，神性是完全有形有体地居住的。 Remember, Jesus is more truly the temple than the temple of Jerusalem was because in Jesus, divinity dwells bodily, fully.
当你领受基督的身体时，你就得到基督完全的同在。 You get the full presence of Christ when you receive the body of Christ.
这就是你在圣餐中领受基督的身体的时候——从基督肋旁流出的血和水指向这一点。 That’s when you receive the body of Christ in the Eucharist—the blood and water flowing from the side of Christ pointing to this.
这就是你通过洗礼在教会中与基督联合的时候。 That’s when you’re incorporated into Christ in the Church through baptism.
这一切都指向现在有更完全的神性居住的事实，所以我们有更丰富的东西。 All of that is pointing to the fact that there is a fuller dwelling of divinity now, and so we have something richer.
这是很奇怪的事：那些批评公教会信徒据称必须通过所 有这些中介的新教徒，却认为他们的圣餐只是象征。 This is the thing that’s so strange: that the same Protestants who knock Catholics for allegedly having to go through all these intermediaries think that their communion is just a symbol.
而事实确是如此！ And it is!
这不仅仅是基督；我们有基督的身体，我们在圣餐中领受他。 It's not just Christ; we have Christ bodily, and we receive him in the Eucharist.
作为新教徒，你可能同意或不同意这一点，但你应该意识 到我们声称比你们有更直接、更无中介的途径接近神。 You may agree or disagree with that as a Protestant, but what you should realize is we claim to have a more direct, unmediated access to God than you do.
你可以在祷告中在灵里亲近他，就像在基督死前死后所有人都可以做的那样。 You can go to him spiritually in prayer, the way everybody else could before and after the death of Christ.
我们现在可以以一种新的方式领受神性的身体临在， 就连约柜，就连至圣所，也只是这种临在的预表。 We can now receive something new by receiving divinity bodily in a way that even the Ark of the Covenant, even the Holy of Holies, was only a foreshadowing.
这是更大的事，以至于就连那些在帐幕中供职的人也需要归信基督教才能经历这种完全。 This is something greater, so that even those who served the tent would need to convert to Christianity to experience the fullness of this.
好，最后一点：如果这一切都是真的，我们该如何理解祭司职分？ Okay, very last point: if all this is true, how do we make sense then of the priesthood?
比如，如果你有这种不可思议的无中介的途径可以在圣餐中领 受耶稣，圣殿帘幔裂开至少废除了中间祭司职分的概念吧？ Like, if you’ve got this incredible unmediated access where you can receive Jesus in the Eucharist, doesn’t the temple veil at least abolish the idea of an intermediate sort of priesthood?
不完全是。 Not really.
我的意思是，从一个角度说是的，从另一个角度说不是。 I mean, yes in one sense, no in another sense.
我要说的是：你可以在圣餐中直接领受神，所以从这个意义上说，这是最无中介的了。 Here’s what I would say: you can receive God directly in the Eucharist, so in that sense, that’s as unmediated as it gets.
当你领受圣餐时，在你和神之间没有任何人。 When you receive communion, there’s no one between you and God.
你可能是从祭司手中领受他，但他是住在你的身体里。 You may receive him at the hands of the priest, but he is in your body dwelling.
这就是最无中介的方式了。 That’s as unmediated as it gets.
然而，献祭的圣餐职分——向天父呈现基督的祭——这里还有很多献祭神学我们 现在不会深入讨论，这是耶稣，如我之前所说，只赐给使徒而不是所有人的。 Nevertheless, the Eucharistic ministry of offering the sacrifice—of representing the sacrifice of Christ to the Father—and there’s a lot of sacrificial theology we’re just not going to get into right here, that is something that Jesus gives, as I said before, to the apostles and not to everyone.
我们怎么知道这一点？ How do we know that?
我已经暗示过了；我们在最后的晚餐中看到这一点。 I already alluded to it; we see it at the Last Supper.
但在玛拉基书1章11节，有这样的应许，在新约中，从日出之地到日落之 处，外邦人要向我的名献上香和洁净的供物，外邦人要向神献上真实的祭。 But Malachi 1, verse 11, there is this promise that in the New Covenant, from the rising of the sun to its setting, incense is offered to my name in a pure offering by the Gentiles, that the Gentiles will offer true sacrifice to God.
现在，这很重要的原因之一是献祭在新约中并没有消失，因为如 果消失了，我们就不得不说敬拜也消失了——基督徒不敬拜神。 Now, one of the reasons that matters is that sacrifice doesn't go away in the New Covenant, because if it did, we'd have to say worship goes away—that Christians don't worship God.
那将是个错误。 That would be a mistake.
所以真实的献祭仍在进行，最早期的基督徒理解这是指圣餐。 So true sacrifice is offered, and the earliest Christians understood that to be a reference to the Eucharist.
但圣餐明确不是由所有人献上，而是由基督在特殊角色上拣选的人献上。 But the Eucharist is explicitly offered not by everyone, but by those chosen by Christ in a special role.
这始于路加福音22章最后的晚餐中的使徒们。 This begins with the apostles in Luke 22 at the Last Supper.
记住，这是他说「你们要如此行，为的是记念我」的地方。 Remember, this is where he says, Do this in remembrance of me.
这个「你们要如此行」是对那些与他同在的人说的。 That do this is to those who are with him.
谁与他同在？ Who's with him?
路加福音22章28节：「我在磨炼之中，常和我同在的就是你们。」 Luke 22, verse 28: You are those who continued with me in my trials.
然后他应许他们要坐在宝座上，审判以色列十二个支派。 And then he promises that they'll sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
这很明显是指十二使徒。 This is a reference quite clearly to the twelve.
现在，这不仅包括当时在场的人，因为十二使徒中的犹大将要堕落，他 在使徒行传第1章被马提亚取代。而且，这圣餐的职分由使徒所任命的 人在此后的每一代继续下去，否则我们就无法遵行基督的这个命令。 Now, this is going to include not just those who are there present, because one of those twelve, Judas, is going to fall away, and he’ll be replaced by Matthias in Acts chapter 1. But also, this Eucharistic ministry is continued by those appointed by the apostles in every generation afterwards, or else we wouldn't be able to follow Christ's command to do this.
我要指出，虽然这里没说十二个人坐在十二个宝座上，但在马 太福音19章的平行记载中很清楚地说到这一点。经上说：「 跟从我的人要坐在十二个宝座上，审判以色列十二个支派。」 And I want to just point out that even though it doesn't say the twelve sitting on the twelve thrones, this is clearly what's happening in the parallel description we get in Matthew 19. It says, You who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes.
为了避免任何人混淆，这是指使徒的职分，这职分继续下去——不是由使 徒，而是由使徒按立的神职人员，然后由他们的继承人按立的人继续。 Just in case anyone's confused, this is a reference to apostolic ministry, and that continues on—not by apostles, but by the ministry of those clergy who are ordained by the apostles and then ordained by their successors.
换句话说，在基督的时代，一个跟随耶稣基督但 不是神职人员的人不能就这样回家举行圣餐。 In other words, at the time of Christ, someone who was following Jesus Christ but wasn't one of the clergy couldn't just go home and offer the Eucharist.
所以，你知道，抹大拉的马利亚——显然是圣洁的；从我们所见的一切来看， 在忠实跟随耶稣方面，她的表现比十二使徒都要好——她不能去举行弥撒。 So, you know, Mary Magdalene—obviously holy; she has a much better track record than the twelve apostles when it comes to faithfully following Jesus from everything we see—she doesn't get to go and offer the Mass.
这没有这样的规定。 There’s no provision for that.
那时是这样，现在也是这样。 That was true then, and that’s true now.
这不是圣洁的标志，而是表明有一个特殊的祭司职分。 It’s not a sign of holiness, but it is a sign that there’s a special priesthood.
记住以赛亚书66章，神应许要拣选一些人作祭司和利未人。 Remember Isaiah 66, the promise that some would be chosen by God as priests and Levites.
这就是我们在圣餐或圣事祭司职分中所看到的。 That’s what we see in the Eucharistic or sacerdotal sacramental priesthood.
所以我希望这很清楚：圣殿的帘幔并没有废除祭司职分。 So I hope that’s clear: the temple veil does not get rid of the priesthood.
它没有废除为他人代祷的需要。 It does not get rid of the need to intercede for other people.
它没有废除我们去请求他人为我们祷告。 It does not eliminate our going to other people to pray for us.
相反，圣殿的帘幔向我们表明，圣殿——我们敬拜的方向——现 在发生了根本性的改变，从耶路撒冷的圣殿转向基督的身体。 The temple veil, instead, shows us that the temple—the orientation of our worship—has now changed in a radical way, away from the temple in Jerusalem and towards the body of Christ.
现在我们有了一条又新又活的路通向天父，因为当我们 领受他的儿子时，我们就在身体上领受了神性的完全。 And now we have a new and living way to the Father because when we receive his Son, we are receiving the fullness of divinity bodily.
所以这是一个伟大的应许，它绝不是对任何公教会神学的批评 ，而是，我要说，独特地在公教会圣事的理解中得到了应验。 So this is a great promise that is in no way a knock on any Catholic theology but is uniquely, I would argue, fulfilled in a Catholic sacramental understanding.
你在新教中找不到这样好的应验。 You just don't find a good fulfillment of that anywhere in Protestantism.
我希望这些有帮助。 I hope that helped.
下周我们将进入一个非常不同的世界，我们要看旧约中的西 拿基立，并试图理解那些令人困惑的重要旧约经文之一。 We’re going to be in a very different world next week as we look at Sennacherib in the Old Testament and try to make sense of one of those confusing seminal Old Testament passages.
现在，在《闪姆与教皇制》节目中，我是乔·赫施迈尔。 But for now, for Shem and Spopery, I’m Joe Heschmeyer.
愿神祝福你。 God bless you.