- start: 3.8
  end: 6.202
  speaker: unknown
  en: Hey everyone, welcome to the Counsel of Trent podcast.
  zh: 大家好，欢迎收听《特伦特慧语》播客。
- start: 6.202
  end: 9.604
  speaker: unknown
  en: I'm your host, Catholic Answers apologist and speaker, Trent Horn.
  zh: 我是你们的主持人，天主教答疑的护教者和演讲者特伦特·霍恩。
- start: 9.824
  end: 20.171
  speaker: unknown
  en: On today's episode, I want to talk about the Church Fathers, Catholic doctrine, and a universal point of agreement that we can find in the Church Fathers.
  zh: 在今天的节目中，我想谈谈教父、公教会教义，以及我们在教父中能找到的一个普遍共识。
- start: 20.327
  end: 27.151
  speaker: unknown
  en: The reason I want to bring this up is I've noticed kind of an inconsistency among some Protestant apologists.
  zh: 我之所以要提出这个话题，是因为我注意到一些新教护教者中存在一种不一致性。
- start: 27.392
  end: 51.696
  speaker: unknown
  en: So what they do is they'll say, okay, you Catholics believe in the immaculate conception of Mary, or you believe in Mary's bodily assumption, or you believe in these other certain dogmas and doctrines that only appear explicitly late in the Church Fathers, either after the Council of Nicaea or maybe even before, but they're more implicit.
  zh: 他们会说，好吧，你们天主教徒相信马利亚无原罪怀孕，或者你们相信马利亚肉身升天，或者你们相信这些其他只在教父后期才明确出现的某些教条和教义，要么是在尼西亚会议之后，要么甚至是在之前，但它们更多是隐含的。
- start: 51.936
  end: 56.158
  speaker: unknown
  en: There might be disagreements amongst the fathers about how to articulate them.
  zh: 教父们在如何阐述这些教义上可能存在分歧。
- start: 56.158
  end: 60.739
  speaker: unknown
  en: Some may be even seeming to not affirm the doctrines.
  zh: 有些人甚至似乎不认同这些教义。
- start: 60.859
  end: 73.342
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so Protestant apologists will say, look, if the apostles taught the bodily assumption of Mary, for example, why don't we see that in all the fathers and see it in the early fathers?
  zh: 因此，新教护教者会说，看，如果使徒们教导了马利亚肉身升天，例如，为什么我们在所有教父中都看不到这一点，在早期教父中也看不到？
- start: 73.342
  end: 81.683
  speaker: unknown
  en: If it were an apostolic teaching, we would expect to see it more in the fathers than we do later in church history after the Council of Nicaea.
  zh: 如果这是使徒的教导，我们会期望在教父中看到它，而不是在尼西亚会议之后的教会历史中才看到。
- start: 81.683
  end: 86.064
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, I don't want to get into a full defense of the bodily assumption of Mary.
  zh: 现在，我不想全面辩护马利亚肉身升天的教义。
- start: 86.324
  end: 90.245
  speaker: unknown
  en: If you want to learn more about that, you can go back to a previous episode of my podcast.
  zh: 如果你想了解更多，可以回顾我播客的前一集。
- start: 90.245
  end: 92.725
  speaker: unknown
  en: I'll try to find a link to it in the description below.
  zh: 我会尝试在下面的描述中找到链接。
- start: 93.465
  end: 101.969
  speaker: unknown
  en: I think I recorded it on the feast day of the assumption to talk about the patristic evidence, Revelation chapter 12, things like that.
  zh: 我想我是在圣母升天节那天录制的，谈论了教父的证据、启示录第12章等内容。
- start: 101.969
  end: 104.571
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's not my intent to get into here on today's show.
  zh: 这不是我今天节目要讨论的内容。
- start: 104.571
  end: 106.892
  speaker: unknown
  en: Rather, I want to point out an inconsistency.
  zh: 相反，我想指出一个不一致之处。
- start: 106.892
  end: 114.415
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's kind of a heads, I win, tails, you lose proposition that Protestant apologists will share with Catholics.
  zh: 这是新教护教者对天主教徒提出的一种「我赢你输」的命题。
- start: 114.435
  end: 121.821
  speaker: unknown
  en: They'll say, oh, if if the fathers taught this, sorry, if the apostles taught it, why don't we see it in all the fathers?
  zh: 他们会说，哦，如果教父教导了这个，对不起，如果使徒教导了这个，为什么我们在所有教父中都看不到呢？
- start: 122.122
  end: 131.83
  speaker: unknown
  en: Their argument seems to be if the apostles taught Doctrine X, then we would find it in all the fathers.
  zh: 他们的论点似乎是，如果使徒教导了教义X，那么我们就会在所有教父中找到它。
- start: 132.171
  end: 139.858
  speaker: unknown
  en: Since we don't find it uniformly and universally, it follows that the apostles must not have taught it like the assumption of Mary.
  zh: 既然我们没有统一和普遍地找到它，那么就可以推断使徒一定没有教导过像马利亚升天这样的教义。
- start: 140.177
  end: 150.725
  speaker: unknown
  en: But I just don't think this is a very legitimate argument that they make, because you can find doctrines that are universally attested in the fathers.
  zh: 但我认为这不是一个很合理的论点，因为你可以找到在教父中普遍证实的教义。
- start: 150.725
  end: 152.546
  speaker: unknown
  en: And that's what we're going to talk about today.
  zh: 这就是我们今天要讨论的内容。
- start: 152.766
  end: 161.993
  speaker: unknown
  en: The one doctrine that even Protestant scholars will admit can be universally found among the church fathers, and yet they won't accept it.
  zh: 即使新教学者也承认在教父中普遍存在的一个教义，但他们却不接受它。
- start: 162.053
  end: 167.497
  speaker: unknown
  en: And that doctrine is, drumroll please, baptismal regeneration.
  zh: 这个教义就是，请击鼓，洗礼重生。
- start: 167.817
  end: 169.739
  speaker: unknown
  en: So I'll talk about the evidence for that.
  zh: 所以我会谈谈支持这一点的证据。
- start: 169.739
  end: 176.006
  speaker: unknown
  en: But that is the belief that baptism is not a purely symbolic right.
  zh: 但这是相信洗礼不仅仅是一种象征性的仪式。
- start: 174.926
  end: 182.093
  speaker: unknown
  en: Baptism is not merely a means to show other people that we have become Christians by faith.
  zh: 洗礼不仅仅是向他人展示我们通过信心成为基督徒的方式。
- start: 182.314
  end: 186.659
  speaker: unknown
  en: Rather, baptism is the means by which we become Christian.
  zh: 相反，洗礼是我们成为基督徒的途径。
- start: 186.659
  end: 188.701
  speaker: unknown
  en: Baptism regenerates us.
  zh: 洗礼使我们重生。
- start: 188.701
  end: 192.824
  speaker: unknown
  en: It takes away the stain of original sin, of personal sin.
  zh: 它消除了原罪和个人罪的污点。
- start: 192.824
  end: 197.408
  speaker: unknown
  en: It removes all of the punishments related to sin, both eternal punishment, temporal punishment.
  zh: 它消除了所有与罪相关的惩罚，包括永恒的惩罚和暂时的惩罚。
- start: 197.408
  end: 205.374
  speaker: unknown
  en: As the Council of Trent says, anyone who receives a sacrament of baptism, there is nothing that would hinder them from entering into heaven.
  zh: 正如特伦特公会议所说，任何接受洗礼圣事的人，没有什么能阻碍他们进入天国。
- start: 205.695
  end: 208.417
  speaker: unknown
  en: For anyone who receives a sacrament of baptism.
  zh: 对于任何接受洗礼圣事的人来说。
- start: 208.597
  end: 214.261
  speaker: unknown
  en: And folded into that is the idea of baptismal regeneration, that it is the waters of baptism.
  zh: 其中包含了洗礼重生的观念，即通过洗礼的水。
- start: 214.261
  end: 221.165
  speaker: unknown
  en: They become the channel of God's grace for our souls to be renewed, for us to become a new creation in Christ.
  zh: 它们成为神恩典的渠道，使我们的灵魂得以更新，使我们在基督里成为新造的人。
- start: 221.165
  end: 227.869
  speaker: unknown
  en: As Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5, verses 17 through 18, I would say.
  zh: 我想说的是，正如保罗在哥林多后书第5章第17至18节所说。
- start: 228.309
  end: 234.013
  speaker: unknown
  en: We become, I think it's set for 2 Corinthians 5, 17. 18 is the ministry of reconciliation.
  zh: 我们成为，我想是哥林多后书5章17节。18节是讲和好的职分。
- start: 234.033
  end: 237.415
  speaker: unknown
  en: We become new creations in Christ through baptism.
  zh: 我们通过洗礼在基督里成为新造的人。
- start: 237.415
  end: 237.415
  speaker: unknown
  en: Amply attested to in scripture, in the church fathers.
  zh: 这在圣经和教父中都有充分的证明。
- start: 237.415
  end: 237.415
  speaker: unknown
  en: And specifically, it's a universal teaching among the fathers.
  zh: 特别是，这是教父们普遍的教导。
- start: 237.415
  end: 237.415
  speaker: unknown
  en: So it's hard for me that, now here's the thing.
  zh: 所以对我来说很难理解，现在问题是这样的。
- start: 237.415
  end: 240.057
  speaker: unknown
  en: There are many Protestants who affirm baptismal regeneration.
  zh: 有许多新教徒肯定洗礼重生。
- start: 240.057
  end: 242.84
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's not the case that every Catholic doctrine is denied by all Protestants.
  zh: 并非所有新教徒都否认每一个公教会教义。
- start: 242.84
  end: 243.5
  speaker: unknown
  en: There's a spectrum here.
  zh: 这里有一个光谱。
- start: 243.5
  end: 260.636
  speaker: unknown
  en: There are going to be some Protestants who are way further away from Catholicism than other Protestants.
  zh: 有些新教徒比其他新教徒离天主教更远。
- start: 260.636
  end: 269.804
  speaker: unknown
  en: So high church Protestants, Anglicans, Lutherans, some Methodists, they're going to be closer to Catholicism than low church Protestants.
  zh: 所以高教会新教徒、英国圣公会、路德宗、一些循道宗，他们会比低教会新教徒更接近天主教。
- start: 269.804
  end: 275.35
  speaker: unknown
  en: There are going to be some Reformed Baptists or Anabaptists, things like that.
  zh: 会有一些改革宗浸信会或再洗礼派，诸如此类。
- start: 275.35
  end: 276.551
  speaker: unknown
  en: They're going to be Anabaptists.
  zh: 他们将成为再洗礼派。
- start: 276.551
  end: 279.914
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's kind of a deep cut further along into Reformation history.
  zh: 这在宗教改革历史中是一个更深层次的划分。
- start: 279.914
  end: 299.549
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Anabaptists, actually, they were called Anabaptists because they re-baptized people.
  zh: 实际上，再洗礼派之所以被称为再洗礼派，是因为他们重新给人施洗。
- start: 299.549
  end: 299.549
  speaker: unknown
  en: They denied baptismal regeneration, one of the first Protestant denominations to do that.
  zh: 他们否认洗礼重生，是最早这样做的新教宗派之一。
- start: 299.549
  end: 299.549
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so they belonged to what was called the Radical Reformation because Luther believed in baptismal regeneration.
  zh: 因此，他们属于所谓的激进改革派，因为路德相信洗礼重生。
- start: 299.549
  end: 299.549
  speaker: unknown
  en: Many Protestants did.
  zh: 许多新教徒也是如此。
- start: 299.549
  end: 301.371
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so Anabaptists did not believe in it.
  zh: 而再洗礼派不相信这一点。
- start: 301.371
  end: 312.101
  speaker: unknown
  en: So they thought if you were baptized as an infant, you had to be re-baptized again, anabaptism, like Greek meaning, you know, baptize again.
  zh: 所以他们认为，如果你在婴儿时期受洗，你必须再次受洗，再洗礼，就像希腊语的意思，你知道，再次施洗。
- start: 312.642
  end: 320.269
  speaker: unknown
  en: So there are people, there are Lutherans, for example, would heartily defend baptismal regeneration.
  zh: 所以有些人，比如路德宗，会热烈地捍卫洗礼重生。
- start: 318.848
  end: 321.31
  speaker: unknown
  en: So we share that in common with them.
  zh: 所以我们与他们有这一共同点。
- start: 321.31
  end: 328.295
  speaker: unknown
  en: But I would say some of the most vocal critics of Catholicism tend to belong to the Reformed Calvinist tradition.
  zh: 但我要说，一些最直言不讳的天主教批评者往往属于改革宗加尔文主义传统。
- start: 328.295
  end: 337.062
  speaker: unknown
  en: And many of them, not all of them, but many of them subscribe to what would be called Believer's Baptism, a.k.a. Credo Baptism.
  zh: 他们中的许多人，不是全部，但许多人赞同所谓的信徒洗礼，也就是信仰洗礼。
- start: 337.062
  end: 343.906
  speaker: unknown
  en: So pedobaptism is the idea you baptize children because either because it's an ordinance, you do it because Jesus said so.
  zh: 所以婴儿洗礼的观念是你给孩子施洗，要么因为这是一项规定，你这样做是因为耶稣这么说。
- start: 343.906
  end: 347.729
  speaker: unknown
  en: It doesn't do anything, but Jesus said to baptize everybody, so you do it.
  zh: 它并不会产生任何效果，但耶稣说要给每个人施洗，所以你就这样做。
- start: 348.004
  end: 359.73
  speaker: unknown
  en: Other pedobaptists, pedo the Greek word for child, who baptize children like Catholics, Lutherans and others, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, would say, well, we baptize children because it spiritually regenerates them.
  zh: 其他婴儿洗礼支持者，「pedo」是希腊语中「儿童」的意思，像天主教徒、路德宗和其他人、东正教、英国圣公会，他们会说，我们给孩子施洗是因为它在灵性上使他们重生。
- start: 359.73
  end: 364.132
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's what takes away original sin and brings them into the body of Christ.
  zh: 它消除了原罪，并使他们进入基督的身体。
- start: 364.572
  end: 368.836
  speaker: unknown
  en: And then there are other Baptists and Protestants.
  zh: 然后还有其他浸信会和新教徒。
- start: 368.836
  end: 373.48
  speaker: unknown
  en: Very common view that I see among evangelicals is no, baptism is credo baptism.
  zh: 我在福音派中看到的一个很普遍的观点是，不，洗礼是信仰洗礼。
- start: 373.48
  end: 377.383
  speaker: unknown
  en: It is for believers to show other people that they're Christian.
  zh: 它是为了让信徒向其他人表明他们是基督徒。
- start: 377.383
  end: 386.191
  speaker: unknown
  en: But what's hard for me is that many of those people, when they start learning Protestant apologetic arguments against Catholicism, might go to the Fathers and say, Magular Conception, Assumption.
  zh: 但对我来说困难的是，当许多这些人开始学习新教反对天主教的护教论点时，可能会去查阅教父的著作，然后说，无原罪怀孕，升天。
- start: 386.191
  end: 390.354
  speaker: unknown
  en: You find these patristic citations late.
  zh: 你会发现这些教父引用出现得很晚。
- start: 390.354
  end: 393.837
  speaker: unknown
  en: If the Apostles taught this, why don't we find this early and universal?
  zh: 如果使徒教导了这些，为什么我们在早期和普遍中找不到这些？
- start: 393.837
  end: 397.08
  speaker: unknown
  en: And now it's not the case that the Fathers taught on everything.
  zh: 现在并不是说教父们教导了所有的事情。
- start: 397.08
  end: 400.582
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's not like the Fathers regurgitate all of doctrine in all of their writings.
  zh: 并不是说教父们在他们所有的著作中都重复所有的教义。
- start: 400.703
  end: 414.417
  speaker: unknown
  en: But what I want to zone in on in the inconsistency of this argument is that I would say to these people, OK, you're saying if the Apostles taught something, then we would expect to find it universally amongst the Church Fathers.
  zh: 但我想要聚焦的是这个论点的不一致性，我会对这些人说，好的，你们说如果使徒教导了某些东西，那么我们会期望在教父中普遍找到它。
- start: 414.417
  end: 418.901
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, here's something that is universally found among them.
  zh: 好吧，这里有一些在他们中间普遍存在的东西。
- start: 419.402
  end: 423.166
  speaker: unknown
  en: So right there, that seems to be something that they universally teach.
  zh: 所以就在那里，这似乎是他们普遍教导的东西。
- start: 423.166
  end: 426.73
  speaker: unknown
  en: Baptismal regeneration is baptism that takes away sins.
  zh: 洗礼重生是消除罪的洗礼。
- start: 426.77
  end: 431.613
  speaker: unknown
  en: John 3, 5 is universally held in the Church Fathers to be referring to water baptism.
  zh: 约翰福音3章5节在教父中普遍被认为是指水洗。
- start: 431.613
  end: 437.117
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's where Jesus says, unless you're born of water and spirit, you cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven.
  zh: 那里耶稣说，人若不是从水和圣灵生的，就不能进神的国。
- start: 437.117
  end: 439.799
  speaker: unknown
  en: And I'll say to them, well, look at what all the Church Fathers, they say about this.
  zh: 我会对他们说，好吧，看看所有教父们是怎么说这个的。
- start: 439.799
  end: 443.281
  speaker: unknown
  en: And the response I get is, well, my theology isn't based on the Church Fathers.
  zh: 而我得到的回应是，嗯，我的神学并不基于教父。
- start: 443.281
  end: 444.922
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's based on the New Testament.
  zh: 它是基于新约的。
- start: 446.183
  end: 449.085
  speaker: unknown
  en: OK, but maybe you're misinterpreting the New Testament.
  zh: 好吧，但也许你误解了新约。
- start: 449.105
  end: 451.927
  speaker: unknown
  en: Maybe you're misinterpreting what it says about baptism.
  zh: 也许你误解了它关于洗礼的说法。
- start: 451.927
  end: 454.929
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Fathers were a lot closer to it than you were.
  zh: 教父们比你更接近它。
- start: 455.05
  end: 461.975
  speaker: unknown
  en: Why shouldn't we think that they've preserved the authentic interpretation of Scripture on this point?
  zh: 为什么我们不应该认为他们在这一点上保留了圣经的真实解释？
- start: 462.075
  end: 468.861
  speaker: unknown
  en: So another point that comes up, by the way, in the debate over baptismal regeneration, this happens a lot when Catholics engage Protestants.
  zh: 顺便说一下，在关于洗礼重生的辩论中还出现了另一个观点，这在天主教徒与新教徒交流时经常发生。
- start: 468.861
  end: 471.523
  speaker: unknown
  en: But among Protestants, this happens too over baptism.
  zh: 但在新教徒中，这种情况在洗礼问题上也会发生。
- start: 471.523
  end: 473.204
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's a burden of proof.
  zh: 这是举证责任。
- start: 473.835
  end: 482.839
  speaker: unknown
  en: People will say, like with Catholics and Protestants when they debate about Catholicism, if the Catholic can't prove Catholicism, Protestantism wins by default.
  zh: 人们会说，就像天主教徒和新教徒在辩论天主教时那样，如果天主教徒不能证明天主教，新教就默认获胜。
- start: 482.839
  end: 483.82
  speaker: unknown
  en: I don't like that.
  zh: 我不喜欢那样。
- start: 483.82
  end: 486.041
  speaker: unknown
  en: It should be an even playing field.
  zh: 这应该是一个公平的竞争环境。
- start: 486.041
  end: 488.202
  speaker: unknown
  en: We start with being Christian.
  zh: 我们从作为基督徒开始。
- start: 488.202
  end: 494.105
  speaker: unknown
  en: And then do you go to the Protestant authority, Sola Scriptura, or the Catholic authority, Scripture, Tradition and the Magisterium?
  zh: 然后你是选择新教的权威，唯独圣经，还是天主教的权威，圣经、圣传和训导权？
- start: 494.105
  end: 497.566
  speaker: unknown
  en: You shouldn't be able to say, oh, you know, we we just stick with that.
  zh: 你不应该说，哦，你知道，我们就坚持那个。
- start: 497.566
  end: 500.788
  speaker: unknown
  en: Or to Orthodoxy, which would basically, I guess you could put it this way.
  zh: 或者是东正教，我想你可以这样说。
- start: 500.788
  end: 502.368
  speaker: unknown
  en: You have being Christian.
  zh: 你是基督徒。
- start: 503.576
  end: 506.378
  speaker: unknown
  en: OK, then you have you could be a Protestant, Sola Scriptura.
  zh: 好的，那么你可以是新教徒，唯独圣经。
- start: 506.479
  end: 509.161
  speaker: unknown
  en: You could be Eastern Orthodox, Scripture and Tradition.
  zh: 你可以是东正教，圣经和圣传。
- start: 509.862
  end: 515.307
  speaker: unknown
  en: Or you could be Catholic, Scripture, Tradition, Magisterium, united to the successor of St. Peter to the Pope.
  zh: 或者你可以是天主教徒，圣经、圣传、训导权，与圣彼得的继承人教宗联合。
- start: 516.449
  end: 517.31
  speaker: unknown
  en: Which one should we pick?
  zh: 我们应该选择哪一个？
- start: 517.31
  end: 523.616
  speaker: unknown
  en: They should all be weighed on their own merit to see what makes the most sense of the biblical and the historical evidence.
  zh: 它们都应该根据自身的优点来衡量，看看哪一个最能解释圣经和历史证据。
- start: 523.743
  end: 525.043
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the same with baptism.
  zh: 洗礼也是如此。
- start: 525.043
  end: 537.266
  speaker: unknown
  en: A lot of people when you when I even see you in Protestants debate this issue amongst themselves, people will say, oh, well, that verse doesn't John 3 5. It could mean amniotic water of the amniotic fluid.
  zh: 当我看到你们新教徒自己在辩论这个问题时，很多人会说，哦，那节经文约翰福音3:5不是那个意思。它可能指的是羊水。
- start: 538.206
  end: 543.747
  speaker: unknown
  en: When you go to Acts 2 38, repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins.
  zh: 当你看使徒行传2:38，悔改，受洗，叫你们的罪得赦。
- start: 543.827
  end: 551.209
  speaker: unknown
  en: Oh, Peter could just be saying here, repent, be baptized because you have been forgiven, even though it's not the grammar of the passage at all.
  zh: 哦，彼得可能只是在这里说，悔改，受洗，因为你已经被赦免了，尽管这完全不符合这段经文的语法。
- start: 551.409
  end: 558.271
  speaker: unknown
  en: I'd go I talk about that at length, by the way, my book Case for Catholicism, whole chapter on baptism there if you want to go in depth on this subject.
  zh: 顺便说一下，我在我的书《天主教辩护》中详细讨论了这个问题，如果你想深入研究这个主题，那里有整整一章关于洗礼的内容。
- start: 558.371
  end: 565.793
  speaker: unknown
  en: But they treat it as if the person who believes in baptismal regeneration, if they can't prove it from Scripture, then it doesn't exist.
  zh: 但他们把它当作如果相信洗礼重生的人不能从圣经中证明它，那么它就不存在。
- start: 565.853
  end: 572.375
  speaker: unknown
  en: No, I would ask the credo Baptist, the ones who believe baptism is merely a symbol to show other people who are Christian.
  zh: 不，我会问那些相信洗礼仅仅是向他人表明自己是基督徒的象征的信仰洗礼者。
- start: 572.375
  end: 574.216
  speaker: unknown
  en: Where does the New Testament say that?
  zh: 新约在哪里说过这个？
- start: 574.316
  end: 577.937
  speaker: unknown
  en: Where does it say baptism is for showing people we are Christians?
  zh: 哪里说洗礼是为了向人们表明我们是基督徒？
- start: 578.396
  end: 579.596
  speaker: unknown
  en: It doesn't say that.
  zh: 它没有这么说。
- start: 579.757
  end: 584.598
  speaker: unknown
  en: In fact, I've got a great book here, Baptism in the New Testament by G.R. Beasley Murray.
  zh: 事实上，我这里有一本很棒的书，G.R. Beasley Murray的《新约中的洗礼》。
- start: 584.878
  end: 586.679
  speaker: unknown
  en: He's a Baptist scholar, actually.
  zh: 他实际上是一位浸信会学者。
- start: 586.679
  end: 590.741
  speaker: unknown
  en: But this is what he says about the New Testament, what it says about baptism.
  zh: 但这是他对新约关于洗礼的说法。
- start: 590.741
  end: 593.442
  speaker: unknown
  en: Very striking from from this whole study on baptism.
  zh: 从这整个关于洗礼的研究来看，非常引人注目。
- start: 593.442
  end: 599.984
  speaker: unknown
  en: He says in the light of the foregoing exposition of the New Testament representations of baptism.
  zh: 他说，根据前面对新约中洗礼表述的阐述。
- start: 599.984
  end: 599.984
  speaker: unknown
  en: The idea that baptism is a purely symbolic right must be pronounced not alone unsatisfactory, but out of harmony with the New Testament itself.
  zh: 认为洗礼仅仅是一种象征性仪式的观点不仅不令人满意，而且与新约本身不和谐。
- start: 599.984
  end: 599.984
  speaker: unknown
  en: Admittedly, such a judgment runs counter to the popular tradition of the denomination to which the writer belongs.
  zh: 诚然，这样的判断与作者所属教派的普遍传统相悖。
- start: 599.984
  end: 603.245
  speaker: unknown
  en: He'd say a lot of the Baptists disagree with me on this point.
  zh: 他会说很多浸信会信徒在这一点上不同意我的观点。
- start: 618.504
  end: 628.867
  speaker: unknown
  en: But he says the extent and nature of the grace which the New Testament writers declare to be present in baptism is astonishing for any who come to the study freshly with an open mind.
  zh: 但他说，新约作者宣称存在于洗礼中的恩典的程度和性质，对于任何以开放心态重新研究这个问题的人来说都是令人惊讶的。
- start: 629.107
  end: 637.789
  speaker: unknown
  en: I was reading a book by a Protestant author, Ronald Nash, and he made this very interesting insight, admission about baptismal regeneration.
  zh: 我在读一本新教作者罗纳德·纳什的书，他对洗礼重生有一个非常有趣的见解和承认。
- start: 637.929
  end: 642.671
  speaker: unknown
  en: I think, honestly, a lot of Protestants believe baptism is just a way of showing people you're saved.
  zh: 老实说，我认为很多新教徒相信洗礼只是向人们展示你得救了的一种方式。
- start: 642.671
  end: 646.465
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's not what saves you because they're already committed to the view.
  zh: 这不是拯救你的东西，因为他们已经坚持这种观点。
- start: 646.465
  end: 647.846
  speaker: unknown
  en: I'm saved by faith alone.
  zh: 我只凭信心得救。
- start: 647.846
  end: 651.567
  speaker: unknown
  en: So if I'm saved by faith alone, baptism can't possibly save me.
  zh: 所以如果我只凭信心得救，洗礼就不可能拯救我。
- start: 651.567
  end: 656.109
  speaker: unknown
  en: Even though first Peter 321 says baptism now saves you.
  zh: 尽管彼得前书3:21说洗礼现在拯救你们。
- start: 656.549
  end: 657.57
  speaker: unknown
  en: Ronald Nash is one of them.
  zh: 罗纳德·纳什就是其中之一。
- start: 657.57
  end: 658.79
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is what he says.
  zh: 这是他说的。
- start: 659.351
  end: 664.713
  speaker: unknown
  en: There is only one necessary condition for salvation, and that is faith in Jesus Christ.
  zh: 得救只有一个必要条件，那就是对耶稣基督的信心。
- start: 664.853
  end: 671.737
  speaker: unknown
  en: We can approach the so-called problem text with confidence that they cannot possibly teach baptismal regeneration.
  zh: 我们可以自信地接近所谓的问题经文，确信它们不可能教导洗礼重生。
- start: 671.737
  end: 673.138
  speaker: unknown
  en: So look what's happening here.
  zh: 所以看看这里发生了什么。
- start: 673.138
  end: 678.481
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is something I accused James White of doing in our debate we had about salvation four years ago.
  zh: 这是我四年前在我们关于救恩的辩论中指责詹姆斯·怀特所做的事。
- start: 678.762
  end: 689.387
  speaker: unknown
  en: That you're taking your theology and approaching the text and saying, These texts cannot mean anything else because my theology is driving it, instead of letting the text speak for themselves.
  zh: 你带着你的神学去接近经文，并说，这些经文不可能有其他意思，因为我的神学在驱动它，而不是让经文自己说话。
- start: 689.908
  end: 692.529
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, but once again, not going to be a lot about scripture today.
  zh: 所以，但再次强调，今天不会讲太多关于圣经的内容。
- start: 692.529
  end: 694.551
  speaker: unknown
  en: I want to talk about the fathers.
  zh: 我想谈谈教父们。
- start: 694.551
  end: 699.814
  speaker: unknown
  en: I'm just going to say that when you go and read the excerpts of the fathers, get Jimmy Akin's book, Fathers Know Best.
  zh: 我只想说，当你去阅读教父们的摘录时，去看看吉米·艾金的书《教父最懂》。
- start: 699.814
  end: 702.715
  speaker: unknown
  en: But even people say, oh, that's a Catholic collection of the fathers.
  zh: 但即使人们说，哦，那是天主教收集的教父著作。
- start: 702.715
  end: 703.836
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's biased.
  zh: 它是有偏见的。
- start: 704.219
  end: 706.281
  speaker: unknown
  en: Read J. N. D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines.
  zh: 读读J. N. D. 凯利的《早期基督教教义》。
- start: 706.281
  end: 707.441
  speaker: unknown
  en: He's an Anglican.
  zh: 他是英国圣公会的。
- start: 707.522
  end: 718.587
  speaker: unknown
  en: And he says, From the beginning, baptism was the universally accepted right of admission to the church.
  zh: 他说，从一开始，洗礼就是普遍接受的加入教会的权利。
- start: 718.587
  end: 718.587
  speaker: unknown
  en: As regards its significance, it was always held to convey the remission of sins.
  zh: 就其意义而言，它一直被认为传达罪的赦免。
- start: 718.587
  end: 719.628
  speaker: unknown
  en: Oh, well, Kelly's an Anglican.
  zh: 哦，好吧，凯利是英国圣公会的。
- start: 719.628
  end: 721.168
  speaker: unknown
  en: Anglicans, you know, they're high church.
  zh: 你知道，英国圣公会是高教会。
- start: 721.168
  end: 722.268
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's biased.
  zh: 这是有偏见的。
- start: 722.829
  end: 723.709
  speaker: unknown
  en: Fine.
  zh: 好吧。
- start: 723.769
  end: 725.57
  speaker: unknown
  en: How about William Webster?
  zh: 威廉·韦伯斯特怎么样？
- start: 725.57
  end: 729.592
  speaker: unknown
  en: Webster is I believe he's a Calvinist or at least he's reformed.
  zh: 我相信韦伯斯特是加尔文主义者，或者至少是改革宗的。
- start: 729.592
  end: 731.212
  speaker: unknown
  en: Protestant apologist did not.
  zh: 新教护教者并没有。
- start: 731.212
  end: 734.274
  speaker: unknown
  en: I don't believe I don't think he believes in baptismal regeneration.
  zh: 我不相信，我不认为他相信洗礼重生。
- start: 734.274
  end: 736.695
  speaker: unknown
  en: But he certainly is very far away from the Catholic Church.
  zh: 但他肯定离公教会很远。
- start: 736.695
  end: 739.956
  speaker: unknown
  en: He's a Protestant apologist.
  zh: 他是一位新教护教者。
- start: 739.956
  end: 744.238
  speaker: unknown
  en: And he wrote a book called The Church of Rome at the Bar of History.
  zh: 他写了一本名为《历史审判下的罗马教会》的书。
- start: 744.458
  end: 751.16
  speaker: unknown
  en: And it's Webster's goal here to try to show that the church fathers don't really support Catholic doctrine.
  zh: 韦伯斯特的目标是试图表明教父们并不真正支持天主教教义。
- start: 751.16
  end: 755.802
  speaker: unknown
  en: They didn't really believe what the church teaches today, or at least they're very far removed from it.
  zh: 他们并不真正相信今天教会所教导的，或者至少他们与之相去甚远。
- start: 756.062
  end: 759.343
  speaker: unknown
  en: That could be a subject for a whole other rebuttal and things like that.
  zh: 这可能是另一个完整反驳的主题，诸如此类。
- start: 759.923
  end: 759.923
  speaker: unknown
  en: I address them once again.
  zh: 我再次讨论它们。
- start: 759.923
  end: 764.325
  speaker: unknown
  en: I address this book quite often in my other book, The Case for Catholicism.
  zh: 我在我的另一本书《天主教辩护》中经常讨论这本书。
- start: 766.806
  end: 768.266
  speaker: unknown
  en: But what Webster says in this book, he actually says this.
  zh: 但韦伯斯特在这本书中实际上是这么说的。
- start: 766.806
  end: 778.11
  speaker: unknown
  en: He says, The doctrine of baptism is one of the few teachings within Roman Catholicism for which it can be said that there is a universal consent of the fathers.
  zh: 他说，洗礼的教义是罗马天主教中少数几个可以说得到教父普遍同意的教导之一。
- start: 779.443
  end: 784.766
  speaker: unknown
  en: So even Webster doesn't believe in this, tries to say the church, the early fathers are not Catholic, admits in here.
  zh: 所以即使韦伯斯特不相信这一点，试图说教会，早期教父不是天主教的，在这里也承认。
- start: 784.766
  end: 794.371
  speaker: unknown
  en: No, that's one you could say, one of the few teachings within Catholicism for which there can be said to be universal consent of the fathers.
  zh: 不，你可以说，这是天主教中少数几个可以说得到教父普遍同意的教导之一。
- start: 794.491
  end: 806.278
  speaker: unknown
  en: And what I would say is, well, if the apostles didn't teach this, how did the church so badly muck this up so that this heresy universally spread amongst the fathers, amongst those who are closest to the apostles?
  zh: 我要说的是，好吧，如果使徒们没有教导这个，教会怎么会把这个搞得如此糟糕，以至于这个异端在教父们中间，在那些最接近使徒的人中间普遍传播？
- start: 806.278
  end: 813.067
  speaker: unknown
  en: Rather, I would say it didn't. It didn't because the apostles didn't teach believers baptism.
  zh: 相反，我会说它没有。它没有，因为使徒们没有教导信徒洗礼。
- start: 813.108
  end: 817.636
  speaker: unknown
  en: They taught certainly that if you are a believer by faith, you are saved by grace to the sacrament.
  zh: 他们当然教导，如果你因信而成为信徒，你就因恩典而得救进入圣事。
- start: 817.636
  end: 819.279
  speaker: unknown
  en: You have to freely approach it.
  zh: 你必须自由地接近它。
- start: 819.506
  end: 829.412
  speaker: unknown
  en: But that it is baptism is the waters of baptism that are the channel through which God's grace renews our souls, takes away original sin and makes us adopted sons and daughters of God.
  zh: 但洗礼就是洗礼之水，是神的恩典更新我们灵魂、消除原罪并使我们成为神的养子养女的渠道。
- start: 829.752
  end: 835.875
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, though, I do want to close with some interesting recent objections I have seen to this thesis.
  zh: 所以，尽管如此，我想以我最近看到的一些有趣的反对意见来结束这个论点。
- start: 835.916
  end: 838.657
  speaker: unknown
  en: Gavin Ortland is a Baptist.
  zh: 加文·奥特兰德是一位浸信会信徒。
- start: 838.657
  end: 839.918
  speaker: unknown
  en: I think he's a former Presbyterian.
  zh: 我想他以前是长老会信徒。
- start: 839.918
  end: 848.903
  speaker: unknown
  en: He's a Baptist apologist, and he did a video recently on the church fathers about the universal view that baptism regeneration.
  zh: 他是一位浸信会护教者，最近他做了一个关于教父们对洗礼重生的普遍观点的视频。
- start: 849.083
  end: 858.668
  speaker: unknown
  en: He pointed out some arguments that a few arguments that he thought counted against the view that the fathers universally believed in baptism regeneration.
  zh: 他指出了一些论点，他认为这些论点反驳了教父们普遍相信洗礼重生的观点。
- start: 858.668
  end: 862.29
  speaker: unknown
  en: I'm going to look at a few of those, and then I will offer you my thoughts.
  zh: 我将看看其中的一些，然后我会给你我的想法。
- start: 862.29
  end: 873.243
  speaker: unknown
  en: Number one is that all of the descriptions early on of what the rite looked like, from the didache on everywhere, and there's so many of them, and so many of them are detailed, are assuming a discipleship process that involves catechesis or teaching.
  zh: 第一点是，早期所有关于仪式样貌的描述，从《十二使徒遗训》到各处，有很多这样的描述，而且很多都很详细，都假定了一个包括教理讲授或教导的门徒训练过程。
- start: 873.243
  end: 873.243
  speaker: unknown
  en: It involves fasting.
  zh: 它涉及禁食。
- start: 873.243
  end: 873.243
  speaker: unknown
  en: It involves, as I say, the renunciation of Satan and so many other things.
  zh: 正如我所说，它涉及弃绝撒但和许多其他事情。
- start: 873.243
  end: 876.266
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's true that the rites connected to baptism talk about faith.
  zh: 确实，与洗礼相关的仪式谈到了信心。
- start: 876.266
  end: 878.669
  speaker: unknown
  en: They talk about renouncing Satan and his evil works.
  zh: 它们谈到弃绝撒但和他的邪恶行为。
- start: 878.669
  end: 881.091
  speaker: unknown
  en: But that's true for infant baptisms today.
  zh: 但这对今天的婴儿洗礼也是如此。
- start: 892.103
  end: 900.071
  speaker: unknown
  en: In order for the sacrament of baptism to be valid, the person receiving it, there must be faith connected to that person.
  zh: 为了使洗礼圣事有效，接受洗礼的人必须与信心相连。
- start: 900.071
  end: 905.456
  speaker: unknown
  en: Either if the person is an adult, that they have faith and they seek the sacrament.
  zh: 如果是成年人，他们必须有信心并寻求这个圣事。
- start: 905.456
  end: 908.238
  speaker: unknown
  en: You can't baptize someone against their will.
  zh: 你不能违背他们的意愿给他们施洗。
- start: 908.298
  end: 909.539
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's not valid.
  zh: 这是无效的。
- start: 909.539
  end: 915.945
  speaker: unknown
  en: They have to freely choose it because they've been given the gift of faith that they freely want to desire it.
  zh: 他们必须自由选择，因为他们已经被赐予了信心的恩赐，他们自由地想要渴望它。
- start: 916.025
  end: 919.688
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now for an infant, of course, an infant can't freely desire baptism.
  zh: 对于婴儿来说，当然，婴儿不能自由地渴望洗礼。
- start: 919.688
  end: 923.651
  speaker: unknown
  en: He has no cognitive awareness of it, but the parents can desire it.
  zh: 他没有认知意识，但父母可以渴望它。
- start: 923.651
  end: 928.575
  speaker: unknown
  en: They are the ones gifted with faith who bring the child for baptism.
  zh: 他们是被赐予信心的人，他们带孩子来接受洗礼。
- start: 928.575
  end: 933.639
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the parents renounce Satan on the child's behalf, receive baptism on behalf of their faith.
  zh: 所以父母代表孩子弃绝撒但，代表他们的信心接受洗礼。
- start: 933.639
  end: 939.023
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's why the church will not baptize children of parents who have no desire to raise a child to be Catholic.
  zh: 这就是为什么教会不会给那些没有意愿将孩子抚养成天主教徒的父母的孩子施洗。
- start: 939.023
  end: 951.586
  speaker: unknown
  en: So if a pastor sees that the parents are only doing the baptism to please grandma, and they have no intention whatsoever raising the child to be Catholic, then they cannot give the child baptism.
  zh: 所以如果牧师看到父母只是为了讨好奶奶而给孩子施洗，而他们完全没有意图将孩子抚养成天主教徒，那么他们就不能给孩子施洗。
- start: 951.586
  end: 956.448
  speaker: unknown
  en: There has to be at least some, a well-founded hope the child will be raised to be Catholic.
  zh: 至少要有一些有根据的希望，孩子会被抚养成天主教徒。
- start: 956.448
  end: 958.088
  speaker: unknown
  en: So faith is connected.
  zh: 所以信心是相连的。
- start: 958.148
  end: 962.529
  speaker: unknown
  en: In the rites of baptism in the early church as in today, we talk about faith, renouncing Satan.
  zh: 在早期教会的洗礼仪式中，就像今天一样，我们谈论信心，弃绝撒但。
- start: 962.649
  end: 965.19
  speaker: unknown
  en: But this is true for infant baptisms today.
  zh: 但这对今天的婴儿洗礼也是如此。
- start: 965.19
  end: 967.35
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's true of infant baptisms in the past.
  zh: 这对过去的婴儿洗礼也是如此。
- start: 967.35
  end: 970.251
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in both cases, you still have baptismal regeneration.
  zh: 在这两种情况下，你仍然有洗礼重生。
- start: 970.511
  end: 973.392
  speaker: unknown
  en: Second, of course, we've got Tertullian.
  zh: 第二，当然，我们有特土良。
- start: 973.392
  end: 978.854
  speaker: unknown
  en: Right around the year 200, Tertullian, he wrote the first surviving treatise on baptism.
  zh: 大约在公元200年，特土良写了现存最早的关于洗礼的论文。
- start: 978.854
  end: 989.817
  speaker: unknown
  en: Tertullian respects tradition way too much to not say something if he's going against the apostolic tradition.
  zh: 特土良非常尊重传统，如果他要反对使徒传统，他不会不说些什么。
- start: 990.049
  end: 1001.678
  speaker: unknown
  en: If infant baptism had been around for 100 years, if this is coming from the apostles, if this is the universal practice, he would not have argued as glibly and briefly as he did against it.
  zh: 如果婴儿洗礼已经存在了100年，如果这来自使徒，如果这是普遍的做法，他就不会像他那样轻率和简短地反对它。
- start: 1001.678
  end: 1003.298
  speaker: unknown
  en: I cannot fathom that.
  zh: 我无法理解这一点。
- start: 1004.66
  end: 1007.562
  speaker: unknown
  en: Let me add some historical context to what Ortlin is saying.
  zh: 让我为奥特兰德所说的话添加一些历史背景。
- start: 1007.562
  end: 1016.433
  speaker: unknown
  en: So in the early 3rd century when Tertullian was writing, the church father Hippolytus says this, And they shall baptize the little children first.
  zh: 所以在特土良写作的3世纪初，教父希波吕托斯这样说，他们应该先给小孩子施洗。
- start: 1016.433
  end: 1019.256
  speaker: unknown
  en: And if they can answer for themselves, let them answer.
  zh: 如果他们能自己回答，就让他们回答。
- start: 1019.256
  end: 1022.839
  speaker: unknown
  en: But if they cannot, let their parents answer or someone from their family.
  zh: 但如果他们不能，就让他们的父母或家人回答。
- start: 1022.839
  end: 1029.145
  speaker: unknown
  en: So it's faith, either in the person who can answer or in someone on their behalf, a relative.
  zh: 所以这是信心，要么在能回答的人身上，要么在代表他们的人身上，比如亲属。
- start: 1029.465
  end: 1033.986
  speaker: unknown
  en: The ecclesial writer Origen says this, These are both witnesses at the same time as Tertullian.
  zh: 教会作家俄利根说，这些都是与特土良同时期的见证。
- start: 1050.311
  end: 1057.177
  speaker: unknown
  en: So Tertullian, he objected to infant baptism, but he said, yeah, of course infants can be validly baptized.
  zh: 所以特土良，他反对婴儿洗礼，但他说，是的，当然婴儿可以有效地受洗。
- start: 1057.177
  end: 1060.32
  speaker: unknown
  en: He just thought it was preferable to wait.
  zh: 他只是认为最好等待。
- start: 1060.32
  end: 1073.532
  speaker: unknown
  en: And he thought just the same thing that Tertullian thought that unmarried people should wait to get baptized until after they're married, because when they're unmarried, they might mess around with each other, fornicate after they've been baptized and lose those graces.
  zh: 他的想法和特土良一样，认为未婚的人应该等到结婚后再受洗，因为当他们未婚时，他们可能会互相胡闹，在受洗后犯淫乱罪，失去那些恩典。
- start: 1073.532
  end: 1077.295
  speaker: unknown
  en: Wait until you're married and just save the graces till later in life.
  zh: 等到你结婚后，把恩典留到生命的后期。
- start: 1077.295
  end: 1077.295
  speaker: unknown
  en: And the 19th century Protestant scholar Philip Schaff agrees with this.
  zh: 19世纪的新教学者菲利普·沙夫也同意这一点。
- start: 1077.295
  end: 1077.295
  speaker: unknown
  en: He says, Among the fathers, Tertullian himself not accepted, for he combats only its expediency.
  zh: 他说，在教父中，特土良本人不被接受，因为他只反对其权宜之计。
- start: 1077.295
  end: 1077.295
  speaker: unknown
  en: There is not a single voice against the lawfulness and the apostolic origin of infant baptism.
  zh: 没有一个声音反对婴儿洗礼的合法性和使徒起源。
- start: 1077.295
  end: 1081.937
  speaker: unknown
  en: We've got all these inscriptions on tombs in the third century and early fourth century of children and babies who died.
  zh: 我们在三世纪和四世纪初的墓碑上有所有这些关于死去的儿童和婴儿的铭文。
- start: 1104.859
  end: 1106.941
  speaker: unknown
  en: And we're told about their baptism date.
  zh: 我们被告知他们的洗礼日期。
- start: 1106.941
  end: 1110.284
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so many times I was shocked at how many of these there are.
  zh: 我多次被这些数量之多震惊。
- start: 1110.364
  end: 1113.046
  speaker: unknown
  en: It'll be like an eight-year-old boy or something like that.
  zh: 可能是一个八岁的男孩或类似的情况。
- start: 1113.267
  end: 1117.73
  speaker: unknown
  en: And he died because, of course, mortality rates are very high in the ancient world.
  zh: 他死了，因为当然，在古代世界死亡率很高。
- start: 1117.951
  end: 1122.715
  speaker: unknown
  en: And it'll be like he died on April 27th and he was baptized on April 25th.
  zh: 可能是他4月27日去世，4月25日受洗。
- start: 1122.715
  end: 1128.8
  speaker: unknown
  en: Or it'll be like a two-year-old and he dies on Saturday and he's baptized on Friday night or something like that.
  zh: 或者可能是一个两岁的孩子，他周六去世，周五晚上受洗，或类似的情况。
- start: 1128.981
  end: 1130.582
  speaker: unknown
  en: Over and over and over you have this.
  zh: 你一遍又一遍地看到这种情况。
- start: 1130.582
  end: 1135.083
  speaker: unknown
  en: And it looks like, oh, it doesn't look like they're baptizing infants.
  zh: 看起来好像他们没有给婴儿施洗。
- start: 1135.083
  end: 1141.288
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, again, one or two of these, you can find a way to explain that, but it's suggestive in its quantity.
  zh: 现在，再次强调，一两个这样的例子，你可以找到解释的方法，但其数量是有启发性的。
- start: 1141.288
  end: 1142.87
  speaker: unknown
  en: I'll make this the last argument I'll look at.
  zh: 我会把这作为我要看的最后一个论点。
- start: 1142.87
  end: 1147.614
  speaker: unknown
  en: Maybe I'll do a more in-depth video on baptism and Dr. Ortlin's objections later.
  zh: 也许我以后会做一个更深入的关于洗礼和奥特兰德博士的反对意见的视频。
- start: 1147.674
  end: 1151.698
  speaker: unknown
  en: I think Jordan Cooper, his name is a Lutheran scholar.
  zh: 我想乔丹·库珀，他是一位路德宗学者。
- start: 1151.698
  end: 1155.521
  speaker: unknown
  en: He had a dialogue with Jimmy Akin not too long ago on justification.
  zh: 不久前他与吉米·艾金就称义问题进行了对话。
- start: 1155.621
  end: 1157.322
  speaker: unknown
  en: He critiques Dr. Ortlin.
  zh: 他批评奥特兰德博士。
- start: 1157.322
  end: 1161.204
  speaker: unknown
  en: And I think some of his arguments were probably pretty similar to mine because he's a Lutheran.
  zh: 我想他的一些论点可能和我的很相似，因为他是路德宗。
- start: 1161.204
  end: 1162.965
  speaker: unknown
  en: So he disagrees with Dr. Ortlin on this.
  zh: 所以他在这一点上与奥特兰德博士意见不同。
- start: 1162.965
  end: 1165.426
  speaker: unknown
  en: You can always check out his thoughts as well.
  zh: 你也可以随时查看他的想法。
- start: 1165.426
  end: 1175.711
  speaker: unknown
  en: But I would say that this actually, the idea of people being baptized, these children being baptized two weeks before they die, that supports baptismal regeneration.
  zh: 但我要说，这实际上，人们受洗的想法，这些孩子在死前两周受洗，这支持洗礼重生的观点。
- start: 1175.711
  end: 1188.28
  speaker: unknown
  en: The reason is, and this is alluded to in the previous thing about Tertullian, is that people thought, well, look, if baptism takes away all sin and all punishment related to sin, just save baptism until the very end of your life.
  zh: 原因是，这在之前关于特土良的讨论中有所暗示，人们认为，好吧，看，如果洗礼能消除所有罪和与罪相关的所有惩罚，那就把洗礼留到生命的最后时刻。
- start: 1188.28
  end: 1192.304
  speaker: unknown
  en: Or save baptism like if you're going to die, get baptized, bam, you're going to go straight to heaven.
  zh: 或者保留洗礼，如果你要死了，就受洗，砰，你就直接上天堂。
- start: 1192.545
  end: 1196.85
  speaker: unknown
  en: But, of course, that's not a great policy because, one, you don't know when you'll die.
  zh: 但是，当然，这不是一个好政策，因为，第一，你不知道你什么时候会死。
- start: 1196.85
  end: 1199.273
  speaker: unknown
  en: What if you die suddenly and you haven't been baptized?
  zh: 如果你突然死亡而还没有受洗怎么办？
- start: 1199.273
  end: 1200.474
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's not good.
  zh: 那不好。
- start: 1200.534
  end: 1202.977
  speaker: unknown
  en: Also, you miss out on the graces of the sacrament.
  zh: 而且，你会错过圣事的恩典。
- start: 1203.198
  end: 1207.345
  speaker: unknown
  en: All of the graces in the baptismal life that help you to be holy to avoid sin.
  zh: 洗礼生活中所有帮助你成圣避免犯罪的恩典。
- start: 1207.345
  end: 1209.448
  speaker: unknown
  en: And baptism is the door to the sacraments.
  zh: 洗礼是圣事的大门。
- start: 1209.448
  end: 1211.892
  speaker: unknown
  en: Without it, you can't be ordained.
  zh: 没有它，你就不能被按立。
- start: 1212.353
  end: 1213.776
  speaker: unknown
  en: You wouldn't have a sacramental marriage.
  zh: 你就不会有圣事婚姻。
- start: 1213.776
  end: 1214.497
  speaker: unknown
  en: You can't be confirmed.
  zh: 你不能接受坚振。
- start: 1214.497
  end: 1216.119
  speaker: unknown
  en: You can't receive the Eucharist.
  zh: 你不能领受圣体。
- start: 1216.289
  end: 1221.152
  speaker: unknown
  en: So you say, well, maybe that's not wise, even though some people think they found a loophole.
  zh: 所以你说，嗯，也许那不明智，尽管有些人认为他们找到了漏洞。
- start: 1221.152
  end: 1225.135
  speaker: unknown
  en: They did this with Emperor Constantine to delay his baptism.
  zh: 他们对君士坦丁大帝就是这样做的，延迟他的洗礼。
- start: 1225.135
  end: 1244.668
  speaker: unknown
  en: So if you see these results of people being baptized for their deathbed, instead of in infancy, that shows a distorted view of baptismal regeneration, not believer's baptism, not the idea that people got baptized as soon as they hit the age of reason when they could say Jesus is their personal Lord and Savior or what have you.
  zh: 所以如果你看到这些人在临终时而不是在婴儿时期受洗的结果，那显示了一种扭曲的洗礼重生观，而不是信徒洗礼，也不是人们一到有理性的年龄就受洗，能说耶稣是他们个人的主和救主或诸如此类的想法。
- start: 1245.109
  end: 1246.87
  speaker: unknown
  en: Hey, I hope this is helpful for you all.
  zh: 嘿，我希望这对你们所有人都有帮助。
- start: 1246.87
  end: 1249.332
  speaker: unknown
  en: I think I love studying the Church Fathers.
  zh: 我想我喜欢研究教父。
- start: 1249.332
  end: 1255.576
  speaker: unknown
  en: If I could recommend a book to get you into the Fathers, The Four Witnesses by Rod Bennett is a super good book.
  zh: 如果我可以推荐一本让你了解教父的书，罗德·贝内特的《四个见证人》是一本非常好的书。
- start: 1255.576
  end: 1262.54
  speaker: unknown
  en: A great anthology that collects the teachings of the Fathers on various issues is The Fathers Know Best by my friend Jimmy Akin.
  zh: 一本收集教父们对各种问题的教导的优秀选集是我的朋友吉米·艾金的《教父最懂》。
- start: 1262.54
  end: 1263.821
  speaker: unknown
  en: Definitely would recommend that.
  zh: 我绝对会推荐那本书。
- start: 1263.821
  end: 1268.824
  speaker: unknown
  en: And I talk a lot about the Fathers and their connection to Catholic doctrine in my book, The Case for Catholicism.
  zh: 在我的书《天主教辩护》中，我大量讨论了教父们及其与天主教教义的联系。
- start: 1268.904
  end: 1272.727
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, hey, thank you guys so much, and I hope you have a very blessed day.
  zh: 所以，嘿，非常感谢你们，我希望你们有一个非常蒙福的一天。
- start: 1273.127
  end: 1274.769
  speaker: unknown
  en: Hey, thanks for watching this video.
  zh: 嘿，感谢你观看这个视频。
- start: 1274.769
  end: 1281.076
  speaker: unknown
  en: If you want to help us produce more great content like this, be sure to click subscribe and go to www.trenthornpodcast.com
  zh: 如果你想帮助我们制作更多像这样的优质内容，请务必点击订阅并访问www.trenthornpodcast.com
- start: 1281.076
  end: 1282.999
  speaker: unknown
  en: to become a premium subscriber.
  zh: 成为高级订阅者。
- start: 1282.999
  end: 1289.026
  speaker: unknown
  en: You'll help us create more videos like this and get access to bonus content and sneak peeks of our upcoming projects.
  zh: 你将帮助我们创作更多像这样的视频，并获得额外内容和我们即将推出的项目的预览。
