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您正在收听的是吉米·埃金的神秘世界第75集， 我们从信仰和理性的双重视角来探索各种奥秘。 You're listening to episode 75 of Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World, where we look at mysteries from the twin perspectives of faith and reason.
提前祝大家圣诞快乐！ And in advance, Merry Christmas, everyone!
是的，在这一集中，我们将讨论圣经中神秘的东方贤士。 Yeah, in this episode, we're talking about the mysterious Magi of the Bible.
我是唐·贝蒂内利，今天和我一起的是吉米·埃金。 I'm Don Bettinelli, and joining me today is Jimmy Akin.
你好，吉米！ Hi, Jimmy!
圣诞快乐，唐姆！ Merry Christmas, Dom!
谢谢你，也祝你圣诞快乐。 Thank you and Merry Christmas to you as well.
所以，根据马太福音2:1，当希律王的时候，耶稣生 在犹太的伯利恒。有几个博士从东方来到耶路撒冷。 So, according to Matthew 2:1, when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the King, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem.
但这个翻译有问题。 But this translation is problematic.
希腊原文并不仅仅说是贤士从东方来；它说的是东方的术士（Magi）来拜访婴儿耶稣。 The Greek text doesn't say just that wise men came from the East; it says that Magi came to visit the baby Jesus.
那么，这些术士（Magi）究竟是谁，他们又是如何知道要来寻找耶稣的？ So, who were the Magi, and how did they know to come to look for Jesus?
这就是我们在本集吉米·埃金的神秘世界中要讨论的内容。 And that's what we'll be talking about on this episode of Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World.
首先，吉米，我了解到你想从澄清关于术士（Magi）的一些误解开始。 First, Jimmy, I understand you'd like to start by dispelling a few myths about the Magi.
它们是什么？ What are they?
嗯，我们成长过程中接触到的很多想法其实是受到圣诞贺卡的启发，这 些贺卡将福音书中的不同元素，特别是马太福音和路加福音中的内容， 压缩在一起，好像这一切都发生在圣诞节当天，在最初的圣诞节那天。 Well, so a lot of the ideas that we grow up with are inspired really by Christmas cards that kind of take different elements from the Gospels, and particularly Matthew and Luke, and then compress them down together as if they all happened on Christmas Day, on the original Christmas Day.
所以，你会看到牧羊人在那里，贤士也在那里，但是，伙计们，这些人并不是同时出现的。 And that, so you have like the shepherds there, and you have the wise men there, and it's like, guys, these didn't show up at the same time.
这些所谓的贤士并不是在耶稣出生的那晚到达的；而是在最多两年之后。 The wise men, so-called wise men, did not arrive the night Jesus was born; it was up to two years later.
耶稣当时已经不是襁褓中的婴儿了；他们住在一所房子里，而他 已经是一个蹒跚学步的幼童，或者至少是一个大一点的婴儿。 They were not still, Jesus was not a little baby in a manger; they were living in a house, and he was a toddler or at least a larger baby.
而且可能也不是三个人。 There also probably were not three of them.
你知道，他们经常被描绘成所谓的三个贤士或三个国王。 You know, they're often depicted as the so-called three wise men or three kings.
圣经中没有任何说法表明他们有三个人。 We have no statement in Scripture that there were three of them.
数字三来源于他们献上了三件礼物：黄金、乳香和没药。 Where the number three comes from is the fact they offered three gifts: gold, frankincense, and myrrh.
所以人们说，哦，那意味着有三个贤士。 So people have said, oh, well, that means there were three wise men.
不，是三件礼物。 No, there were three gifts.
贤士至少有两个人，而且很可能不只是他们。 There were at least two wise men because then just three, and it probably wasn't just them.
他们可能，因为是从另一个国家来，而且旅行很危险，路上可能会遇到强盗，特别是如果 你携带贵重礼物如黄金、乳香和没药，你很可能是带着一个有武装护卫的商队一起来的。 They probably, since they were coming from another country and travel was dangerous, and you could run into brigands on the road, especially if you were carrying valuable gifts like gold, frankincense, and myrrh, you probably came with an armed caravan.
所以这可能是一个很大的商队，谁知道里面有多少真正所谓的贤士呢？ And so it was probably a big caravan, and who knows how many actual so-called wise men were in it?
他们也不是在跟随那颗星；他们是在进行一次星辰之旅，他们的 旅程是受到一颗星的启发，但它并不是一直在前面引导他们。 They also were not following the star; they were on a star quest in that their quest was inspired by a star, but it wasn't leading them around by the nose.
它并不是那样在天空中移动，我们将讨论我们如何知道这一点的原因。 It didn't move around in the sky that way, and we'll talk about the reasons how we know that.
最后，他们既不是国王也不是贤士；这两个词都不 是对「术士」（magi）一词的良好英语翻译。 And then finally, they weren't kings or wise men; neither one of those is a good English translation of the term magi.
我想花点时间提一下星际探索。 And I do want to take a moment to mention Starquest.
这就是我们网络名称的由来；它的灵感来自东方术士寻找基督的使命和意象。 That's where the name of our network comes from; it's inspired by the mission and imagery of the Magi from the East seeking Christ.
这也是我们所做的；我们通过我们制作的媒体来寻求基督。 And that's what we do; we seek Christ through our media that we produce.
那么让我们看看「术士」（Magi）这个词。 So let's look at that term Magi.
它从哪里来，又是什么意思？ Where does it come from, and what does it mean?
马太福音第2章中使用的希腊词是Magoi，这是Magos的复数形式。 The Greek word that's used in Matthew chapter 2 is Magoi, which is the plural of Magos.
不过，人们可能更熟悉这个词的拉丁文等价词。 People though may be more familiar with this term's Latin equivalent.
在圣耶柔米的武加大译本中，我们读到Magi ，即Magoi的拉丁文等价词，从东方来。 In St. Jerome's Vulgate, we read that Magi, so that's the Latin equivalent of Magoi, came from the East.
这个群体的单个成员，不叫Magos，而是叫Magus，所以只是词尾略有不同。 An individual member of this group, instead of being called a Magos, would be a Magus, so it's just a little bit different on the ending.
最初，「术士」（Magi）一词指的是来自波斯的一群人，波斯就是现代的伊朗。 Originally, the term Magi referred to a group of people from Persia, which is in modern Iran.
大约在公元前440年，希腊历史学家希罗多德在 他的《历史》中将术士列为米底人六个部落之一。 Around 440 BC, the Greek historian Herodotus listed the Magi as one of the six tribes of the Medes in his Histories.
显然，这个部落的功能很像犹太的利未部落，因为他们有祭司职责。 Apparently, this tribe functioned a lot like the Jewish tribe of Levi because they had priestly duties.
希罗多德说，波斯人在准备献祭时，不建祭坛或点 火，不使用奠酒或音乐，也不用头饰或大麦粉。 Herodotus says that when about to sacrifice, the Persians do not build altars or kindle fire, employ libations or music, or fillets or barley meal.
当一个人想要向某位神献祭时，他把一头牲畜带到一个开阔的地方 ，然后，头戴桃金娘花环的礼冠，通常只为自己祈求神的祝福。 When a man wishes to sacrifice to one of the gods, he leads a beast to an open space and then, wearing a wreath on his tiara of myrtle, usually calls on the god to pray for blessings for himself alone.
这对于祭祀来说是不合法的；相反，他祈祷国王和所 有波斯人平安，因为他认为自己是他们中的一员。 It is not lawful for the sacrifice; rather, he prays that the king and all the Persians be well, for he reckons himself among them.
然后他将牺牲品肢解成几部分，将肉煮熟后，铺上最柔 软的草，通常是三叶草，并把所有东西都放在上面。 He then cuts the victim limb from limb into portions, and after boiling the flesh, spreads the softest grass, trefoil usually, and places all of it on this.
当他如此安排好后，一位术士走近并在其上吟唱诸神诞生之歌，就 如波斯传统所讲述的那样，因为没有术士就不能进行任何祭祀。 When he has so arranged it, Amagus comes near and chants over it the song of the birth of the gods, as the Persian tradition relates it, for no sacrifice can be offered without Amagus.
所以术士最初是一个有祭司职能的部落。 So the Magi originally were a tribe that had priestly functions.
他们也逐渐被视为占卜者或真相揭示者；这就是占卜者的意思。 They also came to be regarded as soothsayers or truthsayers; that's what soothsayer means.
在但以理书中，术士被召来解释梦境。 In the Book of Daniel, the Magi are called upon to interpret dreams.
在但以理书第2章中，巴比伦王尼布甲尼撒要求他的术士，或 者说他朝廷中的术士，告诉他他的梦是什么以及如何解释。 In Daniel chapter 2, King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon asks his Magi, or the Magi in his court, to tell him what his dream was and how to interpret it.
术士也被要求解释天象预兆，你知道，天空中的事物。 Magi were also called upon to interpret heavenly omens, you know, things in the sky.
有一个著名的案例涉及波斯国王薛西斯一世，也被称为亚哈随鲁，他在 公元前480年4月9日与圣经中的以斯帖结婚。根据希罗多德的记载 ，当他即将与希腊人作战时，他要求术士告诉他发生的日食的含义。 There is a famous case involving the Persian King Xerxes I, also known as Ahasuerus, who married the biblical Esther on April 9th, 480 BC. He asked the Magi to tell him the meaning of a solar eclipse that occurred as he was about to do battle with the Greeks, according to Herodotus.
在春天开始时，军队准备好从撒狄出发，进军到阿比多斯。 At the beginning of spring, the army made ready and set forth from Sardis to march to Abydos.
当军队出发时，太阳离开了天空中的位置，变得不可见，尽管天空无云且非常晴朗。 As it was setting out, the sun left his place in the heaven and was invisible, although the sky was without clouds and very clear.
白天变成了黑夜。 The day turned into night.
当薛西斯看到并注意到这一点时，他感到担忧，询问术士这个景象可能意味着什么。 When Xerxes saw and took note of that, he was concerned and asked the Magi what the vision might signify.
他们向他宣称，神正在向希腊人显示他们城市的弃守，因为太 阳，他们说，是希腊人的先知，正如月亮是他们自己的先知。 They declared to him that the god was showing the Greeks the abandonment of their cities, for the sun, they said, was the prophet of the Greeks, as the moon was their own.
薛西斯听到这个非常高兴，继续他的行军。 Xerxes rejoiced exceedingly to hear that and continued on his march.
所以术士说日食预示着希腊人的失败。 So the Magi said that the eclipse of the sun predicted defeat for the Greeks.
然而，事情对薛西斯并不顺利，他对希腊的远征最终失败了。 However, things didn't work out so well for Xerxes, and his expedition against Greece ended up failing.
但这确实表明，最初的术士是天象预兆的解释者 ，就像后来的术士对伯利恒之星的解释一样。 But this does show that the original Magi were interpreters of portents in the sky, as the later Magi would be for the Star of Bethlehem.
随着时间的推移，「术士」（Magi）一词不再专指波斯祭司阶层的成员。 With time, the term Magi ceased to refer exclusively to members of the Persian priestly caste.
他们所实践的技能在希腊语中被称为magia， 英语中的「魔法」（magic）就是由此而来。 The skills that they practiced came to be known in Greek as magia, from which we get magic in English.
这就是「魔法」一词的起源。 This is the origin of the term magic.
魔法是一个众所周知难以定义的术语，学者们提出了各种各样的定义。 Magic is a notoriously difficult term to define, and scholars have proposed all kinds of definitions.
我们将在即将播出的关于魔法历史和概念的一集中讨论这些内容。 We'll talk about them in an upcoming episode on the history and concept of magic.
然而，历史学家确定的一件事是，人们通常不会将自己的仪式描述为魔法。 However, one thing that historians have determined is that people usually did not describe their own rituals as magic.
相反，他们通常将其他人所做的仪式称为魔法。 Instead, they usually referred to the rituals that other people did as magic.
基于这种理解，「魔法」这个词的功能是指示一种外来仪式。 On this understanding, the term magic functions to indicate a foreign ritual.
这不是我们所做的；而是那些其他人所做的。 It's not what we do; it's what those other people do.
外来仪式很奇特，因此它们可能因此而有趣且吸引人。 Foreign rituals were exotic, and so they could be interesting and attractive for that reason.
但恰恰因为它们是外来的，它们在特定社会环境中也是未经 授权的，所以它们通常被视为禁止的或至少有些可疑的。 But precisely because they were foreign, they were also unauthorized in a given social setting, and so they were often regarded either as forbidden or as at least kind of shady.
那就是那种外来的东西。 That's that foreign thing.
到了第一世纪，你不必是原始米底部落的成员才能 被称为术士（Magi）或术士（Magus）。 By the first century, you didn't have to be a member of the original Median tribe to be called a Magi or to be called a Magus.
任何实践魔法的人都可以被称为术士（Magus）。 Anybody who practiced magic could be called a Magus.
例如，在使徒行传第8章中，我们遇到一个名叫西门的 人，他是撒玛利亚人，意味着他有混合的犹太血统。 For example, in Acts chapter 8, we meet a man named Simon, who was a Samaritan, meaning he had mixed Jewish ancestry.
根据使徒行传8章第9和11节，西门施行魔法（magia ），因此他被称为西门术士（Simon Magus）。 Simon practiced magia according to Acts 8, verses 9 and 11, and so he became known as Simon Magus.
纯正的犹太人也可以是术士，在使徒行传13章中，我们遇到一个名叫巴耶稣的犹太 人，他在使徒行传13:6中被描述为术士和假先知。在这两个例子中，西门和巴耶 稣都在实践虔诚的犹太人不被允许的仪式，所以这就是为什么他们被视为术士。 Full Jews could also be Magi, and in Acts 13, we meet a Jewish man named Bar-Jesus, who is described both as a Magus and as a false prophet in Acts 13:6. In both of these cases, Simon and Bar-Jesus were practicing rituals that were not authorized for devout Jews, and so that's why they were considered Magi.
如果在耶稣时代「术士」（magus）这个词的 用法很灵活，那么拜访他出生时的术士是谁呢？ If the term magus was flexible in Jesus' day, then who were the Magi that visited Him at His birth?
这就是我们将在本集中探讨的理论。 That gets us to the theories that we'll be looking at in this episode.
好的，关于这些术士有哪些理论？ Okay, so what theories are there about the Magi?
它们分为不同的类别。 They fall into different classes.
一个关注他们是谁；第二个关注他们如何知道要来 寻找耶稣；第三个关注他们在天空中看到了什么。 One concerns who they were; the second concerns how they knew to come look for Jesus; the third concerns what they saw in the sky.
作为其中的一部分，我们还将不得不讨论耶稣出生的年份。 As part of that, we're also going to have to talk about the year that Jesus was born.
我们还需要讨论犹太思想对术士可能产生的影响，最后我们将讨论占星术。 We'll also need to talk about the influence that Jewish thought may have had on the Magi, and we'll finish up by talking about astrology.
那么从理性的角度来看，我们能对这些术士说些什么呢？ So what can we say about the Magi from the reason perspective?
第一个问题关注的是这些特定的术士是谁，就是那些来拜访耶稣的人。 The first issue concerns who these particular Magi were, the ones that came to visit Jesus.
马太福音中的术士显然是某种高级官员，这由几个事实表明。 Matthew's Magi were clearly dignitaries of some kind, and this is shown by several facts.
首先，他们认为自己有资格祝贺一个遥远的王室家族有了新生儿。 First, they saw themselves as worthy to congratulate a distant royal house on a new birth.
其次，他们有资源和闲暇进行长途旅行。 Second, they had the resources and the leisure to undertake a lengthy journey.
第三，他们能够提供昂贵的礼物，第四，他们获得了与希律大王的御前会见。 Third, they could offer costly gifts, and fourth, they got a royal audience with King Herod the Great.
农民无法做这些事，所以这些不是像西门术士那样的低阶术士；他们来自上层阶级。 Peasants couldn't do these things, so these weren't low-class Magi like Simon Magus; they were from the upper class.
马太说他们来自东方，从耶路撒冷的角度来看，这指向阿拉伯、巴比伦和波斯等地。 Matthew says that they came from the East, which from the perspective of Jerusalem would point to locations like Arabia, Babylonia, and Persia.
在所有这些地区，一些解释者提出，拜访耶稣的术士是犹 太人，你知道，他们自然会对新生的犹太人之王感兴趣。 In all of these regions, some interpreters have proposed that the Magi who visited Jesus were Jews who would, you know, naturally be interested in the newborn King of the Jews.
但大多数学者认为这不太可能。 But most scholars have concluded that that's not likely.
如果他们是拜访犹太高级官员，马太会将他们标识为同教人士。 If they were visiting Jewish dignitaries, Matthew would have identified them as co-religionists.
他将他们描述为来自东方的术士这一事实表明他们是来自...的 外邦人，而且马太在马太福音2:12中还说他们回到了自己的本 地，这表明他们是该国的本地居民，而不是流亡在外的犹太人。 The fact that he describes them as being Magi from the East suggests that they were Gentiles who came from a... and Matthew also says they went back to their own country in Matthew 2:12, suggesting that they were among its native inhabitants rather than Jews who were living in exile.
因为如果你是犹太人，你自己的国家是，嗯，那就是犹太地，无论你住在哪里。 Because if you're a Jew, your own country is, well, that's Judea, no matter where you're living.
在马太福音中关于回应真神的外邦人，马太使用这 种模式向他的读者表明外邦人可以成为基督徒。 In Matthew's Gospel of Gentiles who respond to the true God, Matthew uses this pattern to show his readers that Gentiles can be Christians.
这种模式在福音的结尾达到高潮，即耶稣告诉使徒去使万民作门徒的大使命，你也 可以将其翻译为使所有民族作门徒，或稍微变通一下，甚至使所有外邦人作门徒。 The pattern culminates at the end of the Gospel with the Great Commission when Jesus tells the apostles to make disciples of all nations, which you could also translate as make disciples of all the peoples, or bending a little bit, even make disciples of all the Gentiles.
在马太福音28:19中，术士是这种模式的一部分。 In Matthew 28:19, the Magi are part of this pattern.
他们是外邦高级官员，代表了对神的弥赛亚的早期 回应，与试图杀死弥赛亚的犹太王希律形成对比。 They're Gentile dignitaries who represent an early response to God's Messiah in contrast to the Jewish King Herod, who seeks to kill the Messiah.
这预示了犹太当局后来如何试图杀死耶稣，但外邦人将接受他的福音。 This prefigures how the Jewish authorities will later seek to kill Jesus, but the Gentiles will embrace his Gospel.
因此，学者们得出结论，马太福音中的术士是来自东 方国家的外邦占星家，但我们不能确定是哪一个。 Scholars have thus concluded that Matthew's Magi were Gentile astrologers from an eastern land, but we can't be sure which one.
一些早期资料说他们来自阿拉伯，尽管阿拉伯不一定指沙特阿拉伯。 Some early sources say they were from Arabia, although Arabia does not necessarily mean Saudi Arabia.
你知道，地理边界与今天不同，所以一些不属于沙特阿拉伯的土地也被视为阿拉伯。 You know, the geographical borders were different than they are today, so lands were considered Arabia that were not part of Saudi Arabia.
我们所拥有的关于他们来自阿拉伯的想法的最早讨论是在殉道者游斯丁的著 作中找到的，他在大约公元160年写了这个。在他的《与犹太人特里弗的 对话》第78章中，他写道：当阿拉伯的术士来到希律王面前说，「从天上 出现的那颗星，我们知道在你的国家里诞生了一位国王，我们前来拜他。」 The earliest discussion we have of the idea that they came from Arabia is found in St. Justin Martyr, who wrote about it around the year AD. 160 In chapter 78 of his Dialogue with Trifo the Jew, he wrote at the time when the Magi from Arabia came to King Herod and said, From the star which has appeared in the heavens, we know that a king has been born in your country, and we have come to worship him.
所以游斯丁说他们从阿拉伯来向耶稣致敬。 So Justin says they came from Arabia to pay homage to Jesus.
类似地，约在公元210年，北非作家特土良根 据他们提供的礼物推断这就是他们来自的地方。 Similarly, around AD 210, Tertullian, the North African author, deduced that this is where they were from based on the gifts that they offered.
你可以在他的《反对马吉安》一书第3章第13节中读到这一点。在古代世界，黄 金和乳香与阿拉伯有关，但这不是决定性的证据，因为它们在该地区被广泛交易。 You can read about that in his book Against Marcion, chapter 3, section 13. In the ancient world, gold and frankincense were associated with Arabia, but this isn't conclusive evidence because they were widely traded in the region.
我的意思是，想想他们在埃及到处都有的那些黄金。 I mean, think about all that gold they've got all over everything in Egypt.
显然，阿拉伯不是获得黄金的唯一地方，而且乳香有一个很大的贸易产业。 Clearly, Arabia wasn't the only place to get gold, and there was a big trading industry with frankincense.
所以仅仅因为他们有这些与阿拉伯有关的礼物并不意味着他们就来自那里。 So just because they had these gifts that were associated with Arabia doesn't mean that's where they're from.
许多学者认为巴比伦，也就是现代的伊拉克，是他们可能来自的地方。 Many scholars have seen Babylon, so think modern Iraq, as a possibility of where they came from.
有人指出，马太福音的犹太读者会熟悉但以理书， 其中在尼布甲尼撒王的宫廷中有巴比伦的术士。 The Jewish readers of Matthew, it's been pointed out, would have been familiar with the book of Daniel, which has Magi in Babylonia in King Nebuchadnezzar's court.
人们还认为，巴比伦的主要犹太殖民地可能使术士对犹太弥赛亚产生了特别的兴趣。 It's also been argued that the major Jewish colony in Babylon could have given the Magi a special interest in the Jewish Messiah.
但这再次不是决定性的，因为每个地方的犹太人都在期待弥赛亚。 But again, that's not conclusive because Jews in every land were expecting the Messiah.
所以无论术士来自哪里，他们都可能遇到过犹太人说，嘿，将会有一位伟大的王诞生。 So wherever the Magi were from, they could have encountered Jews who said, Hey, there's going to be this great king that's going to be born.
大多数教父认为术士来自波斯，即现代的伊朗。 Most of the Church Fathers thought that the Magi came from Persia, so think modern Iran.
就在公元200年之后，亚历山大的克莱门特在他的《杂记》第1卷第15 章中将他们确定为来自波斯，他在那里谈到哲学在不同国家的实践方式。 Just after AD 200, Clement of Alexandria identified them as coming from Persia in book 1, chapter 15 of his Stromata, where he talked about how philosophy was practiced in different lands.
在哲学的队伍中，首先是埃及的先知和亚述人中的迦勒底人，高卢人中 的德鲁伊德，巴克特里亚人中的萨曼尼亚人，凯尔特人的哲学家，以及 波斯的术士，他们预言了救主的诞生，并在星星的引导下来到犹太地。 First in philosophy's ranks were the prophets of the Egyptians and the Chaldeans among the Assyrians, and the Druids among the Gauls, and the Samanians among the Bactrians, and the philosophers of the Celts, and the Magi of the Persians, who foretold the Savior's birth and came into the land of Judea, guided by a star.
这种理解在教父中成为主导，术士在早期基督教艺术中通常被描绘成穿着波斯服装。 This understanding became the dominant one among the Church Fathers, and the Magi were commonly depicted in early Christian art as wearing Persian clothing.
术士是如何知道要来寻找婴儿耶稣的？ How would the Magi know to come find the baby Jesus?
嗯，在流行的叙述中，如我们所提到的，术士被 描绘成跟随星星，然后星星引导他们到伯利恒。 Well, in popular accounts, as we mentioned, the Magi are depicted as following the star, which then led them to Bethlehem.
这使许多人将这颗星视为一种超自然的显现，它在天空中 以恒星不会的方式移动。这本身会使这颗星变得有问题。 That has led many people to see the star as a supernatural manifestation that moved in the sky in a way stars don't. That of itself would make the star problematic.
我的意思是，如果这是一次性的超自然现象，他们怎么会知道如何解释它？ I mean, if this is a one-off supernatural phenomenon, how would they know how to interpret it?
我的意思是，这颗星可能意味着任何事情。 I mean, this star could mean anything.
如果你以前从未见过类似的东西，它的移动方式与其他任何东西都不同。 If you've never seen one like this before, it doesn't move like anything else.
这怎么会告诉你犹太王呢？ How does that tell you Jewish king?
但马太从未声称他们是跟随那颗星；他只是说当他们 去伯利恒时，星在他们前头行，并停在房子上面。 But Matthew never claims they were following the star; he only says that it was ahead of them as they went to Bethlehem and that it stood above the house.
从他们的角度来看，这是马太福音2:9。这确实是一个天意的巧合。 From their point of view, this is Matthew 2:9. This is really a providential coincidence.
他们并不是被星星引导的，因为正如本笃十六世在他的书《拿撒勒 人耶稣：婴儿时期的叙述》中指出的那样，这在书的第4章中，他 们最初去了耶路撒冷的希律宫殿，这是寻找新生王子的自然场所。 They weren't being led by the star, for as Benedict XVI points out in his book, Jesus of Nazareth: The Infancy Narratives, and this is in chapter 4 of the book, they initially went to Herod's palace in Jerusalem, which is the natural place to find a newborn prince.
他们假设希律大王或他的一个儿子刚刚有了一个男婴，这个男婴将长大成为国王。 They assumed that Herod the Great or one of his sons had just had a baby boy who would grow up to be king.
当他们得知，令他们惊讶的是，宫殿里没有新王子时，必须与祭司长和文士们协商 ，以了解术士真正需要去的地方：根据马太福音2:4，是伯利恒。所以，祭司长 和文士们查看了一个关于弥赛亚诞生的众所周知的预言，这在弥迦书5:2中找到 ，然后在马太福音2:6中被引用，这表明术士可能将这颗星的出现视为预示着不 仅仅是一个普通国王的诞生，而是一个特别伟大的人的诞生，就像预言的弥赛亚。 And when they learned that, to their surprise, there's no new prince at the palace, a consultation had to be held with the chief priests and scribes to learn where the Magi really needed to go: Bethlehem, according to Matthew 2:4. So the fact that the chief priests and scribes looked to a well-known prophecy of the birth of the Messiah, which is found in Micah 5:2 and then quoted in Matthew 2:6, suggests the Magi could have seen the appearance of the star as signaling not just the birth of an ordinary king, but the birth of a particularly great one, like the predicted Messiah.
因此，虽然他们并不是跟随那颗星，但它确实告诉他们这位国王已经诞生了。 And so, while they weren't following the star, it did tell them that this king had been born.
他们说，「我们在东方看见他的星」（马太福音2:2）。最近，学者们认为这个短 语可能被错误翻译了。他们说「我们在东方看见他的星」中，「在东方」的希腊原文 是「ente anatole」，他们认为这应该被翻译为「在它升起时」。 They said, We have seen his star in the east (Matthew 2:2). Recently, scholars have argued that this phrase may be a mistranslation and that the Greek phrase rendered in the east when they say, We have seen his star in the east, the Greek there is ente anatole, and they've argued that this instead should be translated as at its rising.
你知道，由于地球的自转，星星像太阳一样从东方升起。 We have, you know, because stars rise in the east just like the sun does, based on the rotation of the Earth.
因此，他们是在地球转动时，这颗星从东方地平线升起时看到它的。 And so, that they saw it when it rose over the eastern horizon as the Earth turned.
有些人认为这甚至是一个技术术语，指的是所谓的星 的「晨出」，即在日出前短暂地从地平线上升起。 Some have argued that this is even a technical term for what is known as a star's helical rising, which occurs when it briefly rises above the horizon just before sunrise.
这并不是总是发生的；它被认为是重要的晨出现象，特别是在一些古代占星家看来。 That doesn't happen all the time; it's considered a significant helical rising, particularly by some ancient astrologers.
所以，这可能就是他们在这里所说的：我们看到了这位国王之星的晨出。 And so, that may be what they're saying here: we saw the helical rising of this king's star.
什么告诉他们这颗星很重要，为什么他们将它与犹太人的王联系起来？ What told them that the star was significant, and why did they link it to a king of the Jews?
嗯，在这里我们只能推测。 Well, here we can only speculate.
当时使用的星座系统，包括我们自己的黄道十二宫，大约在公元前11 30年在北美索不达米亚发展起来，巴比伦和波斯的占星家都使用它。 The system of constellations in use at the time, which includes our own zodiac, was developed in northern Mesopotamia around 1130 BC, and it was used by both Babylonian and Persian astrologers.
他们将特定的星与国王的诞生联系起来并不奇怪 ，因为在当时，占星术主要用于预测国家事务。 It's not surprising that they would associate a particular star with the birth of a king because, at the time, astrology was principally used to forecast national affairs.
这与今天在报纸上阅读你的星座运势不同。 It wasn't like today, where you read your horoscope in the newspaper.
如果你有报纸，星座运势通常不是为普通人做的。 If you have a newspaper, horoscopes weren't normally done for ordinary people.
相反，天象被解释为与国家重要事务有关，如国家间关系，或战 争和叛乱，或瘟疫，或作物是否丰收，或国王会发生什么事。 Instead, heavenly signs were interpreted as having to do with things of national importance, like relations between nations, or wars and rebellions, or epidemics, or whether the crops would be good or bad, or what's going to happen with a king.
因此，术士寻找与国王诞生有关的征兆并不奇怪。 It's thus not a surprise that the Magi would be looking for signs dealing with the birth of kings.
他们所看到的星可能是什么，很难确定，但一种可能性是木星。 What the star they saw might have been is difficult to determine, but one possibility is Jupiter.
今天，我们认为木星是一颗行星而不是恒星，但在当时，木星和其他行 星被认为是漫游的星，因为它们是相对于固定恒星背景移动的小光点。 Today, we think of Jupiter as a planet rather than a star, but at the time, Jupiter and the other planets were considered wandering stars because they were little points of light that moved against the background of the fixed stars.
事实上，这就是「行星」一词的由来；在希腊语 中，「planetes」意为「漫游者」。 In fact, that's where the word planet comes from; in Greek, planetes means wanderer.
所以，像木星这样的行星就是漫游的星。 So, the planets, like Jupiter, are the wandering stars.
与后来的一些希腊人不同，美索不达米亚的占星家并不认为星星控制着地球上的事件。 Unlike some later Greeks, Mesopotamian astrologers didn't think that the stars were controlling events on Earth.
相反，他们认为诸神只是通过这些天象显明他们 的旨意，所以你可以将天空视为一种神的启示。 Instead, they thought the gods were just making their wills known through these celestial phenomena, so you could look at the sky as a kind of divine revelation.
它不是控制你，而是通过神的启示告诉你将要发生什么。 It's not controlling you, but it tells you what's going to happen by divine revelations.
特别是木星，它与马尔杜克，巴比伦万神殿之王相关联，就像木星是罗马诸神之王一样。 Jupiter, in particular, was associated with Marduk, the king of the Babylonian pantheon, just like Jupiter was the king of the Roman gods.
所以，木星是王者行星，在巴比伦占星术中也有这种角色。 So, Jupiter is the king planet, and it had this same kind of role in Babylonian astrology.
例如，有一段文字说，如果木星在早晨仍留在天空中，那么敌对的国王将彼此和解。 For example, there's one text that says if Jupiter remains in the sky in the morning, then enemy kings will be reconciled with each other.
所以，这是木星被认为影响国王事务的一种方式。 So, that's one way that Jupiter was taken as affecting the affairs of kings.
有一段亚述文本说，如果发生月食而木星不在天空中，国王就会死亡。 There's an Assyrian text that says if a lunar eclipse takes place and Jupiter is not in the sky, the king's going to die.
为了保护国王，亚述人想出了一个巧妙的解决方案：他们找一个被判死 刑的罪犯，让他暂时替代国王，然后处决他以挽救真正国王的生命。 To protect the kings, the Assyrians came up with an ingenious solution: they took a condemned criminal and made him a temporary substitute king who could then be executed to save the life of the real king.
这是弗朗切斯卡·罗斯伯格在她的书《天上的文字：美索 不达米亚文化中的占卜、星相和天文学》中所说的话。 Here's what Francesca Rothberg has to say in her book, The Heavenly Writing: Divination, Horoscopy, and Astronomy in Mesopotamian Culture.
预兆所带来的最极端情况是预示国王死亡的月食。 The most extreme situation posed by an omen was that of the lunar eclipse that portended the death of the king.
因为到公元前7世纪，月食的可能性是可以预测的，所以这 种现象为国王预示的危险有时可以在事实发生前得到解决。 Because the possibility of a lunar eclipse was predictable by the 7th century BC, the danger portended for the king by this phenomenon could occasionally be addressed before the fact.
更常见的是，首先必须观察月食以确定影响亚述国王的特定因素，如月 食阴影遮蔽月亮圆盘的部分以及月食期间木星在天空中的存在或缺席。 More often, the eclipse had first to be observed to determine particular factors affecting the Assyrian king, such as the portion of the lunar disk darkened by the eclipsing shadow and the presence or absence of the planet Jupiter in the sky during the eclipse.
对这种月食的回应是启动替代王的仪式，他充当替罪羊，代替国王承担预示 的邪恶，当一百天的危险期结束后，他将被处死，以便将邪恶带入阴间。 The response to such an eclipse was to put in motion the ritual of the substitute king, who acted as a scapegoat, taking on himself the portended evil in place of the king, and who, when the danger period of a hundred days was over, was to be put to death in order that the evil be carried with him into the netherworld.
所以这有点像吉尔伯特和沙利文的轻歌剧《天皇》，其中 有一个替代者需要被处决，以拯救重要人物免于被处决。 So it's kind of like the Gilbert and Sullivan operetta, The Mikado, where you have a substitute who needs to be executed to save the important guy from being executed.
但在一个月内，他会像斗鸡一样受到对待，得到他想要的一切，然后在最后，他会被处决。 But for a month, he'll be treated like a fighting cock and given everything he wants, and then at the end of that, he's going to go get the chop.
我读过和听过关于替代王仪式的叙述，你知道，他们做所有这些 事情是为了欺骗诸神，让他们以为这个罪犯现在是真正的国王。 I've read accounts of and heard accounts of the substitute king ritual where, you know, they do all this stuff to try to fake out the gods into thinking this criminal is now the real king.
看，我们和他一起做了所有这些国王的事情。 See, we did all this king stuff with him.
同时，真正的国王假装是个农民或别的什么，他们恰好向这个农民咨询重要的国家事务。 Meanwhile, the actual king is pretending to be a farmer or something, and they just happen to consult this farmer for important state affairs.
无论如何，他们非常认真地对待月食期间木星是否出现在天空中这个问题。 In any event, they took whether or not Jupiter was present in the sky during a lunar eclipse very seriously.
这对国王来说是生死攸关的。 It had life or death consequences for the king.
当然，木星是否是术士所看到的那颗星，将取决于耶稣出生的年份。 Of course, though, whether Jupiter was the star that the Magi saw will depend on the year that Jesus was born.
那么那一年是什么时候？ And when was that year?
嗯，这是学者们争论的问题，既然耶稣是在希律大王统 治期间出生的，他必定是在这之前的某个时候出生的。 Well, this is something that scholars debate, and since Jesus was born during Herod the Great's reign, he would have had to have been born sometime before this.
在马太福音2:7中，希律暗暗地向术士查问那星出现的时间，而在马太福音2:16中 ，他照着从术士那里所查问的时间，把伯利恒城里并四境所有两岁以里的男孩都杀了。 In Matthew 2:7, Herod secretly learns from the Magi when the star appeared, and in 216, he kills all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time which he had ascertained from the wise men.
这表明人们理解这颗星是在耶稣诞生时出现的，这是 你所期望的，因为这种预兆与出生而非受孕有关。 This indicates that the star was understood as appearing at Jesus' birth, which is what you'd expect since such portents were associated with births rather than conceptions.
这也表明耶稣在术士到达前最多两年出生，尽管可能不是整 整两年，因为希律可能在他的处决命令中添加了安全边际。 It also indicates Jesus was born up to two years before the Magi arrived, although it may not have been a full two years since Herod may have added a safety margin to his execution order.
想确保他杀到正确的孩子。 Want to make sure he gets the right kid.
因此，许多学者提出，由于希律大约在公元前4年死亡，耶稣是在 希律死亡之前出生的。按照这个说法，希律大约在公元前4年死亡 ，耶稣大约在公元前6或7年出生。所以这就是你常听到的日期。 Many scholars have thus proposed that Jesus was born since Herod died around 4 BC. On this account, that Jesus was born, that Herod died around 4 BC, that Jesus was born around 6 or 7 BC. So that's the date you commonly hear.
但其他学者认为这个计算是错误的，我同意这些其他学者的观点。 But other scholars have argued that this calculation is wrong, and I agree with the other scholars.
更有力的说法是希律在公元前1年死亡，如果你想读这方面的证据，你可 以看杰克·芬尼根的书《圣经年代学手册》第二版，以及安德鲁·斯坦曼 的书《从亚伯拉罕到保罗》，这两本都是关于圣经年代学的优秀书籍。 A better case can be made that Herod died in 1 BC, and if you want to read the evidence for that, you can see Jack Finnegan's book, The Handbook of Biblical Chronology, second edition, and Andrew Steinmann's book, From Abraham to Paul, both of which are excellent books on biblical chronology.
这将使耶稣的出生时间在公元前3年或2年。也就是公元前3年下 半年或公元前2年上半年，这是教父们确定为正确年份的时间。 This would put Jesus' birth in 3 or 2 BC. That's the latter half of the year 3 BC or the first half of the year 2 BC, which is the year that the Church Fathers identified as the correct one.
绝大多数谈到这个主题的教父都说是公元前3-2年，这与 路加所说的耶稣开始他的事工时大约30岁的说法相符。 The overwhelming bulk of the Church Fathers who addressed the subject say it's 3-2 BC, and that fits with Luke's statement that Jesus was about 30 years old when he began his ministry.
他在路加福音3:23中说到这一点。这正是施洗约 翰在提庇留凯撒执政第十五年开始他的事工之后。 He says that in Luke 3:23. This was just after John the Baptist began his ministry in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar.
根据路加福音3:1，提庇留凯撒执政第十五年是公元29年。 你从公元29年减去30，然后记住没有公元0年这个事实，你 最终得到的是公元前2年而不是公元前1年，因为没有0年。 According to Luke 3:1, the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar was AD 29. You subtract 30 from AD 29, and you remember the fact there is no year zero, and you end up in 2 BC rather than 1 BC because there's no year zero.
但无论耶稣出生的哪种观点是正确的，我们可以说它发生在第一个十年内。 But regardless of which view of Jesus' birth is correct, we can say it happened in the first decade.
无论你想采用较早的日期还是传统的较晚日期，它都是在公元前第一个十年 的某个时候。如果听众想要更全面地了解耶稣出生的日期，他们可以去看我 们2018年圣诞节的第19集。是的，我们详细地讨论了这个问题。 Whether you want to go with the earlier dating or the traditional later dating, it's sometime in the first decade BC. And if listeners want a fuller treatment of the dating of Jesus' birth, they can go to our Christmas 2018 episode, episode 19. Yeah, we talked about that at length.
好的。 Good.
那么当时天空中有什么可能是那颗星呢？ So what was in the sky at this time that could have been the star?
嗯，已经提出了大量的可能性，我即将给出的列表只包含其中一些提案。 Well, a large number of things have been proposed, and the list I'm about to give only contains some of the proposals.
但在公元前7年12月1日，木星和土星处于合相。 But in 7 BC, on December 1st, Jupiter and Saturn were in conjunction.
在公元前6年4月17日，木星在白羊座出现晨出，白羊座是 与犹太地相关的星座，同时天空中还有其他几个重要特征。 In 6 BC, on April 17th, Jupiter had its heliacal rising in Aries, which was a constellation associated with Judea, along with several other significant features in the sky.
同样，在公元前6年5月27日，木星和土星处于合相，这在公元前6 年10月6日再次发生。在公元前5年3月，一颗彗星出现在摩羯座。 Also, in 6 BC, on May 27th, Jupiter and Saturn were in conjunction, and that happened again on October 6th of 6 BC. In 5 BC, in March, a comet appeared in Capricorn.
在公元前4年4月，一颗彗星或新星——我们不确定 是哪一个——可能是彗星或新星；记录不够清楚。 In 4 BC, in April, a comet or a nova—we're not sure which one—could have been either a comet or a nova; the records aren't clear enough.
它出现在天鹰座，即鹰星座。 It appeared in the constellation Aquila, the Eagle.
在公元前3年8月12日，木星和金星在东方升起，在狮子座中 彼此合相，靠近轩辕十四，我们稍后会讨论这一点的重要性。 In 3 BC, on August 12th, Jupiter and Venus rose in the east in conjunction with each other in the constellation Leo, near the star Regulus, and we'll go into the significance of that in a bit.
同样，在公元前3年9月11日，太阳在室女座中部，月亮在室女座的脚处。 Also, in 3 BC, on September 11th, the sun was in mid-Virgo, with the moon at the feet of Virgo.
在9月14日，木星再次与轩辕十四合相。 On September 14th, Jupiter was in conjunction with Regulus again.
在公元前2年2月17日，木星与轩辕十四合相；这也发生在公元前 2年5月8日，而在公元前2年6月17日，木星再次与金星合相。 In 2 BC, on February 17th, Jupiter was in conjunction with Regulus; that also happened on May 8th of 2 BC, and on June 17th of 2 BC, Jupiter again was in conjunction with Venus.
当你说合相时，这意味着它们在天空中非常靠近。 When you say in conjunction, that means that they were very close together in the sky.
这意味着它们相对靠近。 It means they were relatively close.
具体有多接近取决于合相的程度。 How specifically close depends on the degree of conjunction.
好的。 Okay.
但对于占星学目的来说，这意味着它们在同一宫位。 But for astrological purposes, it means they're in the same house.
在特定情况下，它可能意味着它们如此接近，以至于实际上看起来像一颗单一的星。 It could mean, in a particular case, they were so close that they actually looked like a single star.
好的，好的，那么这些各种天文现象中哪一个最重要？ Okay, okay, so which of these various astronomical phenomena is most significant?
我们应该特别讨论其中的三个。 Three of them we should talk about in particular.
第一个是公元前6年4月17日发生的事情。那是木星在白羊座的晨 出，近年来，认为这就是术士所看到的现象是一个非常流行的观点。 The first is what happened on April 17th of 6 BC. That was the heliacal rising of Jupiter in Aries, and the idea that this is what the Magi saw is a very popular proposal in the last few years.
它在天文学界真的很受欢迎。 It has really taken off in astronomical circles.
这是由一位名叫迈克尔·莫尔纳的先生提出的，他写了一系列文章，探讨古 代世界名人的星盘如何能够照亮历史，以及这些星盘在当时如何被看待。 It was proposed by a gentleman named Michael Molnar, who has written a series of articles about what light horoscopes of famous people in the ancient world can shed on history and how these horoscopes would have been regarded in their own day.
他为尤利乌斯·凯撒、奥古斯都·凯撒、多米提安、米 特里达梯和其他有重要星盘的古代名人制作了星盘。 He's done horoscopes for Julius Caesar, Augustus Caesar, Domitian, Mithridates, and other famous ancient people who had significant horoscopes.
他发现在公元前6年4月17日，有一系列因素，根据当时的希腊天 文学，很有可能被解读为预示着一位伟大国王在犹太地诞生的信号。 He found that on April 17th in 6 BC, there was a set of factors that, in terms of Greek astronomy of the time, would very plausibly be read as signaling the birth of a very great king in Judea.
他在《伯利恒之星》一书中探讨了这一点。 He explores this in his book, The Star of Bethlehem.
他的论点可信，但我有一些批评。 His case is credible, but I have some criticisms of it.
首先，我认为他的年份错了。 First, I think he's got the wrong year.
我认为耶稣出生在公元前3年或2年，而不是公元前6年。其次 ，他过于依赖只能在耶稣时代一个世纪后才有文献记载的希腊占 星学思想，那时天文学家克劳迪乌斯·托勒密生活的时代。 I think Jesus was born in 3 or 2 BC, not 6 BC. Second, he's too dependent on Greek astrological ideas that can only be documented a century after the time of Jesus, when the astronomer Claudius Ptolemy lived.
我认为术士可能不是使用希腊占星术，而是美索不达米亚或阿拉伯 的占星学思想，我们不能简单地假设这些与希腊占星学思想相同。 I think the Magi may not have been using Greek astrology but Mesopotamian or Arabian astrological ideas, and we can't just assume those are the same as Greek astrological ideas.
所以即使他有一个星盘在希腊占星学中表示重要的犹太国王，但这 不一定是术士所想的，因为他们不是来自希腊；他们来自东方。 So even though, yeah, he's got a horoscope that says big important Judean king in Greek astrology, that's not necessarily what the Magi were thinking because they weren't from Greece; they were from the East.
我们需要注意的第二种可能性是公元前3年8月12日木星和金星的升起。正如我们 提到的，自巴比伦时代以来，木星被视为天上的王，而金星当然被视为天上的后。 The second possibility that we need to call attention to is the rising of Jupiter and Venus on August 12th in 3 BC. Since Babylonian times, as we mentioned, Jupiter has been seen as a heavenly king, and of course Venus was seen as a heavenly queen.
所以你把一个王和一个后放在一起；这可能暗示一个出生。 So you get a king and a queen together; it could suggest a birth.
此外，巴比伦人将轩辕十四，狮子座中最亮的星（它是狮子座阿尔法星 ）命名为「王」，这实际上甚至是他们在自己的语言中称呼它的方式。 Further, the Babylonians named Regulus, which is the brightest star in Leo (it's Alpha Leonis). They called Regulus the king, which is actually even what they called it in their own language.
但即使轩辕十四，你知道，在拉丁语中与「rex」或「王」有关，而且如 果你看创世记49:9，狮子是犹大的传统象征。所以如果你有天上的王和 后在犹大部落的星座中通过王星聚在一起，那可能暗示一个新的犹太国王。 But even Regulus is, you know, related in Latin to rex or king, and the lion was a traditional symbol of Judah if you look at Genesis 49:9. So if you have the heavenly king and the queen getting together in the tribe of Judah's constellation by the king star, that could suggest a new Jewish king.
我们需要注意的第三种可能性是公元前3年9月11日下个月 发生的事情。这种可能性在启示录中有一些圣经以外的支持。 The third possibility that we need to call attention to is what happened the next month on September 11th of 3 BC. This possibility has some extra-biblical backing in the Book of Revelation.
在第12章中，约翰说：「天上现出大异象来：有一 个妇人身披日头，脚踏月亮，头戴十二星的冠冕。」 In chapter 12, John says, A great portent appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
这个妇人然后生下耶稣。 This woman then gives birth to Jesus.
嗯，有些人提出这个图像编码了耶稣出生时的信息，当时太阳在室女座（处女座） 中部，因此用太阳给处女披上衣服，月亮在室女座的脚处，或者说处女的脚处。 Well, some have proposed that this image encodes information about when Jesus was born, when the sun was in the middle of Virgo, the Virgin, and thus clothing the Virgin with the moon at Virgo's feet, or the feet of the Virgin.
这也正在发生，这发生在公元前3年9月11日。这也发生在靠近木星（王者行 星）与轩辕十四（王星）在狮子座（狮子，犹大的象征）中的几次相遇的时间。 This is also happening, and that happened on September 11th of 3 BC. This is also happening in proximity to several encounters that Jupiter, the king planet, had with Regulus, the king star, in the constellation of Leo, the lion, the symbol of Judah.
所以9月11日在某些圈子里是一个非常流行的提议。 So September 11th is a very popular proposal in some circles.
公元前3年9月11日，这是一个日期，或者是其中一个日期，在 2007年由一个名叫里克·拉森的人制作的名为《伯利恒之星》 的纪录片中讨论过，这在福音派圈子里是一部非常流行的纪录片。 September 11th, 3 BC, it's the date, or one of the dates, that's discussed in the 2007 documentary called The Star of Bethlehem by a guy named Rick Larson, and this is a very popular documentary in evangelical circles.
我认为该纪录片提出的内容很有可能，但也有理由对其保持谨慎， 所以我不建议人们观看它并得出它所说的一切都必然正确的结论。 I think that what the documentary proposes is quite possible, but there are also reasons to be cautious about it, so I don't recommend that people watch it and conclude that everything it said is necessarily right.
我们将在《神秘世界》未来的一集中专门讨论伯利恒之星，可能是明年圣诞节。 We'll talk about that in a future episode of Mysterious World just devoted to the Star of Bethlehem, so maybe next Christmas.
不幸的是，如果不确切知道耶稣的出生时间，我们无法说这些事件中的哪 一个（如果有的话）对应于伯利恒之星，而这是圣经从未告诉我们的。 Unfortunately, we can't say which, if any, of these events corresponds to the Star of Bethlehem without knowing precisely when Jesus was born, and that's something the Bible never tells us.
这些都是很好的可能性，但教父们有不同的意见。 These are good possibilities, but the Church Fathers had different opinions.
他们确实将公元前3-2年确定为他出生的年份，即公元前3年 下半年或公元前2年上半年，但只有一些人提出12月25日。 They did identify 3-2 BC as the year he was born, the latter half of 3 or the first half of 2, but only some of them proposed December 25th.
所以我们不能确定这些中的哪一个可能是正确的，但这些是主要的可能性。 So we can't know for sure which of these it might have been, but these are the leading possibilities.
谢谢你。 Thank you.
新的礼物延长了我们的截止日期，但在我们消除赤字 之前，星际探索和你喜爱的节目的未来仍然存疑。 New gift extends our deadline, but until we eliminate our deficits, the future of Star Quest and your favorite shows remain in question.
这就是为什么在这个将临期和圣诞节期间，即非营利组织接收 其全年大部分支持的时候，我们听到你们的声音至关重要。 That's why it's crucial that we hear from you this Advent and Christmas, the time when non-profits receive most of their support for the year.
如果你已经是星际探索的支持者，我们非常感激，我们请你虔诚地考虑增加支持。 If you're already a supporter of Star Quest, we're very grateful, and we ask you to prayerfully consider increasing.
在这个圣诞节，感谢，感谢，感谢你对星际探索的支持，并记住你的礼物可以抵税。 Thank you, thank you, thank you for Star Quest this Christmas, and remember that your gifts are tax-deductible.
只需前往SQPN.com/give。 Just go to SQPN.com/give.
那就是SQPN.com/give，愿神祝福 你和你的家人，当我们接近庆祝我们主的诞生。 That's SQPN.com/give, and may God bless you and yours as we approach the celebration of our Lord's birth.
好的，这就是理性的视角。 Okay, so that's the reason perspective.
从信仰的角度，我们能说术士什么呢？ What can we say about the Magi from the faith perspective?
神真的会用异教占星术来预示他儿子的诞生吗？ Would God really use pagan astrology to signal the birth of His Son?
那是神决定的事情。 That's a matter for God to decide.
圣经表明神关心所有人，他以各种方式使自己为人所知。 Scripture indicates that God cares for all people, and He makes Himself known to them in various ways.
例如，在罗马书1章，你看第19和20节。保罗明确表示 神通过创造向世界上每个人，包括异教徒，启示了自己。 For example, in Romans 1, you look at verses 19 and 20. Paul makes it clear God has given revelation of Himself through creation to everyone in the world, including pagans.
如果他选择让异教徒通过星星感知他儿子的诞生，嗯，他可以这样做。 If He chooses to let pagans perceive the birth of His Son through the stars, well, He can do that.
这与其说是神使用异教占星术来标记他儿子的诞生，不如说是选择 在外邦人中保存某些真实的观念，这些观念随后指向这一事件。 It wouldn't be so much a case of God using pagan astrology to mark the birth of His Son as choosing to preserve certain true ideas among Gentiles that would then point to this event.
另外，如果术士是波斯人，他们不一定被视为异教徒，因为他们在这个时候不是多神教徒。 Also, if the Magi were Persians, they wouldn't necessarily be considered pagans because they weren't polytheists at this time.
他们早期是多神教徒，但到了这个时期，波斯人不再信仰古老的神灵。 They had been polytheists early on, but by this period, the Persians did not believe in the old gods.
他们的主要宗教是琐罗亚斯德教，它教导有一个单一的全善 创造者神，他们称之为智慧之主，他最终将战胜所有邪恶。 Their dominant religion was Zoroastrianism, which teaches that there is a single great all-good Creator God, whom they refer to as the Wise Lord, and who will vanquish all evil in the end.
他们还相信世界的更新，最后的审判和死人的复活。 They also believe in the renovation of the world, the final judgment, and the resurrection of the dead.
所以，一个伟大全善的创造者，智慧之主，他将征 服邪恶，更新世界，进行最后审判，使死人复活？ So, single great all-good Creator, the Wise Lord, who's going to vanquish evil, renovate the world, have a final judgment, and raise the dead?
你知道谁else也相信这些吗？ You know who else believed that?
犹太人！ Jews!
因此，如果术士是波斯人，他们可能将自己视为犹太人的精神 亲属，崇拜同一个神，唯一的真神，只是使用不同的语言。 And so, if the Magi were Persians, they could have seen themselves as spiritual kin to the Jews and as worshiping the same God, the only true one, just using a different language.
最后，他们很可能与生活在他们自己土地上的犹太人有接触 ，从而接触到可能影响他们对那颗星的看法的圣经启示。 Finally, they may well have had contact with Jews living in their own land and thus come into contact with biblical revelation that could have influenced their perception of the star.
例如，他们可能已经了解到狮子是犹大的象征，因此他们 可能将犹太弥赛亚的到来与狮子座中的一颗星联系起来。 They could have learned, for example, that the lion was a symbol of Judah, and they could have thus associated the coming of the Jewish Messiah with a star in Leo.
有史以来最著名的弥赛亚预言之一是在民数记24: 17：「有星要出于雅各，有杖要兴于以色列。」 One of the most famous messianic prophecies of all time is in Numbers 24:17: A star shall come forth out of Jacob, and a scepter shall rise out of Israel.
嗯，这个预言在他们的时代已经与弥赛亚相关联，这就是为什么 在公元130年代，自称弥赛亚的西门·巴尔·科西巴被称为西 门·巴尔·恰赫巴，在亚拉姆语中意为「西门，星之子」。 Well, this prophecy was already in their time associated with the Messiah, which is why in the AD 130s, the messianic pretender Simon Bar Kosiba was hailed as Simon Bar Chachba, which in Aramaic means Simon, son of the star.
所以，星星在这个时候已经被用作弥赛亚的象征，因此如果你将 一颗星与天上的狮子联系起来，那可能告诉你，新的犹太国王。 So, stars were already used as a symbol for the Messiah at this time, and so if you associate a star with the heavenly lion, that could tell you, New Jewish king.
所以，犹太思想本身可能提供了一些背景，帮助术士认出那颗星。 So, Jewish thought may have itself provided some of the background that helped the Magi recognize the star.
那么，在这个叙述中，占星术本身的角色是什么？ So then, what about the role of astrology itself in this account?
这不是有问题吗？ Isn't that problematic?
听众可以回去听《神秘世界》第23集获取对占星术的完整分析，但这里我们将简要介绍。 Listeners can go back and listen to episode 23 of Mysterious World to get a full analysis of astrology, but here we'll cover it briefly.
占星术在外邦人中很流行，但在犹太人中不那么流行，他们常常看不起它。 Astrology was popular among Gentiles, but it wasn't as popular among Jews, who often looked down on it.
有趣的是，这本身就是马太关于术士传统的历史准确性的一 个标志，因为这不是犹太基督徒倾向于编造的那种事情。 Interestingly, this is itself a sign that Matthew's tradition about the Magi is historically accurate, because it's not the kind of thing that Jewish Christians would tend to make up.
既然他们不崇尚占星术，他们自然不会编造，哦，这些占星家来拜访弥赛亚。 Since they didn't look up to astrology, they wouldn't naturally make up, Oh, and these astrologers came to visit the Messiah.
但它确实存在；占星术在古代世界是存在的。 But it did exist; astrology was out there in the ancient world.
创世记说神创造了日、月、星辰。 Genesis says that God made the sun, the moon, and the stars.
这是创世记1:14。经文说他造它们是要分昼夜，作记号，定节令、日子、年岁。 This is Genesis 1:14. It says He made them to separate the day from the night and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years.
这可能仅仅意味着你可以用它们作为计时标记，但一些犹太人认为它们作为记号的功 能超出了仅仅作为计时标记，还包括关于未来事件的信息，即神在启示他的旨意。 That could simply mean that you can use them as timekeeping markers, but some Jews thought that their function as signs went beyond just being timekeeping markers and included information about future events, that God was revealing His will.
就像他通过其他奇迹给予征兆一样，他也通过星辰给予征兆。 Just like He gives signs through other miracles, He gives signs through the stars.
所以他们看到创世记中就说它们是作记号的，所以它们可以为我们预测事情。 So they see right here in Genesis it says they're for signs, so they can predict things for us.
因此，例如，一些死海古卷包含占星学文本。 Thus, for example, some of the Dead Sea Scrolls contain astrological texts.
所以有些犹太人接受占星术，或者至少是那种说神 可以通过天上的征兆启示他旨意的占星术版本。 So there were Jews who entertained astrology, or at least the version of astrology that says God can reveal His will through signs in the heavens.
当然，在古代世界，天文学和占星术之间没有严格的区分。 In the ancient world, of course, there was no rigid distinction between astronomy and astrology.
只是在最近几个世纪，随着科学家们更多地了解日、月、 星辰对地球生命的影响和非影响，这两者才被区分开来。 It's only been in the last few centuries that the two have been disentangled as scientists have learned more about the effects that the sun, the moon, and the stars do and don't have here on life on Earth.
即使是托马斯·阿奎那，在1200年代，基于当时的科学，也认为天体对我们 的情绪有影响，例如，可以使人容易发怒，但不会以压倒其自由意志的方式。 Even Thomas Aquinas, back in the 1200s, based on the science of his day, thought that the heavenly bodies had an influence on our passions and could, for example, make a man prone to anger, but not in a way that it would overwhelm his free will.
如果你想了解这一点，我们在第23集中谈到过。此外，他在他对马 太福音2章1-2节的注释中提到了这一点，在他对马太福音的注释 中，他也在《神学大全》中谈到了这一点，我们会在链接中提供。 If you want to read about that, we talk about it back in episode 23. Also, he mentions it in his commentary on this passage, Matthew 2, verses 1 and 2, in his commentary on Matthew, and he talks about it in the Summa Theologiae, and we'll have that in the links.
后来的科学研究表明，星辰并没有这种影响，因此为这些目的而咨询星象是迷信。 Subsequent scientific research has showed that the stars don't have this kind of effect, and so consulting the stars for these purposes is superstition.
所以如果你查看《公教会教理》，它警告不要查询星座运势。 And so if you look in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, it warns against consulting horoscopes.
但虽然星辰没有许多人曾经认为的那种影响，这并不意 味着神不能用它们来标志他世代计划中的重大事件。 But while the stars don't have the kind of influence many people once thought, that doesn't mean God can't use them to signal major events in His plan of the ages.
事实上，他用一颗星来预示他儿子的诞生，这表明他可以这样做。 In fact, He signaled the birth of His Son with a star, and that shows He can do this.
这不是人们所认为的占星术；相反，这是神的眷顾 的一部分，而且这似乎也不是神唯一一次这样做。 That isn't what people think of as astrology; instead, it's part of divine providence, and it doesn't even appear to be the only time God has done this.
在五旬节那天，彼得引用了先知约珥的预言，在弥赛亚的日 子里，月亮将变成血，他说这在我们这个时代已经应验了。 On the Day of Pentecost, Peter cited the prophet Joel's prediction that in the days of the Messiah, the moon would be turned to blood, and he says this was fulfilled in our own day.
猜猜怎么着？ Well, guess what?
恰好在耶稣被钉十字架的那晚，公元33年4月3日，从耶 路撒冷可以看到月食，而在月食中，月亮看起来是红色的。 It so happens that on the night of the crucifixion, April 3rd, AD 33, there was a lunar eclipse visible from Jerusalem, and in a lunar eclipse, the moon looks red.
所以在弥赛亚被钉十字架的那天，月亮确实变成了血色。 So the moon did turn to blood on the day the Messiah was crucified.
所以神可以在天上给予征兆来标记他计划的各个阶段。 So God can give signs in the heavens to mark the stages of His plan.
那么，吉米，关于这个东方术士之谜，你的结论是什么？ So, Jimmy, what's your bottom line on this mystery of the Magi?
嗯，他们既不是国王也不仅仅是贤士；他们是占星家。 Well, they weren't kings and they weren't simply wise men; they were astrologers.
他们不只是三个人；我们不知道有多少人，但他们可能由一个大型商队陪同。 There weren't just three of them; we don't know how many there were, but they were probably accompanied by a large caravan.
他们在耶稣出生后最多两年才到达。 They arrived as much as two years after Jesus was born.
他们不是被那颗星引导的，这就是为什么他们去了耶路撒冷的宫殿。 They weren't led around by the star, which is why they went to the palace in Jerusalem.
他们来自一个东方国家，虽然不清楚这是巴比伦、波斯还是阿 拉伯，而木星，王者之星，可能在他们的计算中起了作用。 They came from an eastern country, though it's unclear whether this was Babylon, Persia, or Arabia, and Jupiter, the king star, likely played a role in their calculations.
木星本身可能就是他们看到升起的那颗星。 Jupiter itself may have been the star that they saw rise.
太好了！ Great!
那么，对于那些想要更深入了解这个话题的听众，也 许是在主显节之前，我们还能提供什么其他资源？ And so, what further resources can we offer to the listeners who would like to do a little deeper dive on this, perhaps before the Feast of the Epiphany?
嗯，杰克·芬尼根的书《圣经年代学手册》，我们会提供链接。 Well, Jack Finnegan's book, Handbook of Biblical Chronology, we'll have a link to that.
这是一本杰出的书。 It's an outstanding book.
安德鲁·斯坦曼的《从亚伯拉罕到保罗的圣经年代学》，我们也会提供链接。 Andrew Steinman's Biblical Chronology from Abraham to Paul, we'll also have a link to that.
弗朗切斯卡·罗斯伯格的书《天上的文字：美索不达米亚文化中的占卜、星相和 天文学》，这样你就可以深入了解巴比伦人实际上是如何解读天空中的征兆的。 Francesca Rothberg's book, The Heavenly Writing: Divination, Horoscopy, and Astronomy in Mesopotamian Culture, so you can dig into what people in Babylonia actually, how they actually read signs in the sky.
迈克尔·莫尔纳的书《伯利恒之星》，他提出了现在很流行的 理论，尽管我认为它有问题，但你可以自己阅读他的论点。 Michael Molnar's book, The Star of Bethlehem, he proposed the theory that's popular right now, even though I think there are problems with it, but you can read his case for yourself.
我们还会有我写的关于东方术士之谜的文章，以及我对伯 利恒之星所做的工作，包括对伯利恒之星怀疑者的回应。 We'll also have an article I wrote on Mysteries of the Magi, as well as stuff I've done on the Star of Bethlehem, including a response to a skeptic of the Star of Bethlehem.
我们还会提供链接到《神秘世界》之前关于占星术和耶稣何时出生的集数。 We'll also have links to previous Mysterious World episodes on astrology and when Jesus was born.
我们会提供里克·拉森的《伯利恒之星》纪录片的链接，以及一个视频链接， 我在其中提出了一些关于里克·拉森的《伯利恒之星》纪录片的注意事项。 We'll have a link to Rick Larson's Star of Bethlehem documentary and a link to a video where I throw out a few notes of caution about Rick Larson's Star of Bethlehem documentary.
在节目笔记中，我们还会提供托马斯·阿奎那在《神学大全》中谈论占星术的链接。 And also in the show notes, we'll have a link to where Thomas Aquinas talks about astrology in the Summa Theologiae.
那么让我们继续听听神秘反馈，这次我们收到了关于我们最近关于数字电台的集数的反馈。 So let's move on to our mysterious feedback, and this time we're hearing feedback on our recent episode on numbers stations.
我们的第一个反馈来自厄尔，他发了一封电子邮件。 Our first feedback comes from Earl, who sent an email.
他说，我是长期听众，喜欢你们的播客。 He says, I'm a longtime listener and love your podcasts.
听了今天的节目后，它让我想起了最近读到的一 篇关于加利福尼亚试图消除业余无线电的文章。 After listening to today's episode, it reminded me of an article I recently read about California trying to eliminate ham radio.
另外，我想知道吉米什么时候会提供他在节目结尾的数字电台广播的解决方案。 Also, I was wondering when Jimmy would be providing the solution to his number station broadcast at the end of the episode.
我识别出开始的五个数字是圆周率的前五位3141 5，以及结尾的11个素数中的第一个，不包括1。 I recognize the first five digits to pi as 31415 and the first 11, not including the 1, prime numbers at the end.
我确信吉米的谜题不止于此。 I'm sure Jimmy has more to the puzzle than that.
所以，在数字电台集的结尾，在那集的过程中，我们播 放了许多数字电台的音频剪辑，包括林肯郡偷猎者。 So, at the end of the number station episode, during the course of that episode, we played a number of audio clips from number stations, including the Lincolnshire Poacher.
我们展示了消息通常如何分为两个块。 We showed how the messages typically were divided into two blocks.
一个块包含消息的元数据，比如这是给谁的，另一 个块包含数字，如果你解码它们，就会拼出消息。 One block had kind of the metadata for the message, like who this is for, and the other had the numbers that actually, if you decode them, spelled out the message.
然后，他们在最后会有一个注意信号，表示传输结束。 Then, they'd have an attention signal at the end to signal the end of the transmission.
只是为了好玩，我用林肯郡偷猎者的声音和我自己的声音编写了这样一个东西。 Just for fun, I composed such a thing using sound from the Lincolnshire Poacher and my own voice.
对于消息的第一部分，我使用了圆周率的前五位数字，因为那些通常有五个数字。 For the first part of the message, I used the first five digits of pi because those tend to have five numbers in them.
在林肯郡偷猎者中，第一块信息是五个数字。 In the Lincolnshire Poacher, the first block of information was five numbers.
然后，对于更长的第二块数字，我包括了前12个素数。 Then, for the second block of numbers, which would be longer, I included the first 12 prime numbers.
因为在我看来，数字1是素数，它符合定义；它只能被自身和1整除而没有余数。 Because, in my view, the number one is a prime number, it fits the definition; it can only be divided by itself and one with no remainder.
我不知道为什么人们不把1当作素数；它就是素数，数学家们接受现实吧！ I don't know why people don't consider one a prime number; it just is, deal mathematicians!
所以，这是第二块数字中唯一真正缺失的部分。 So, that was the only really missing bit of that second block of numbers.
1被故意放在那里，因为我认为它是素数。 One is in there deliberately because I think it is a prime number.
然后，对于最后的消息，我包含了一段优胜美地山姆的剪辑。 Then, for the final message, I included a clip of Yosemite Sam.
在那一集中，我们播放了一段数字电台「优胜美地山姆」的剪辑，它在数据爆 发结束时使用音频剪辑，其中优胜美地说：「我要把你炸成碎片，害虫！」 In the episode, we played a clip of the numbers station Yosemite Sam that uses an audio clip at the end of a data burst where Yosemite says, I'm going to blow you to smithereens, varmint!
我找不到那个，但我找到了一个我认为对公教广播更合适的。 I couldn't find that, but I found one that I think was even more appropriate for a Catholic broadcast.
所以，在我的小数字电台剪辑结尾，我让优胜美地 山姆说：「念你的祷告吧，你这长耳朵的笨蛋！」 So, at the end of my little number station clip, I had Yosemite Sam saying, Say your prayers, you long-eared galoot!
这对于一个公教播客来说似乎很合适。 That seemed appropriate for a Catholic podcast.
确实是！ It did!
这些是剪辑中唯一的额外元素。 Those are the only additional elements to the clip.
我故意让这个密码容易被人破解。 I deliberately wanted the code to be easy for people to break.
然后是加利福尼亚试图消除业余无线电。 And then California trying to eliminate ham radio.
有趣的是，这让我开始了一个小任务，去了解更多关于 业余无线电的信息，以及现在有什么，你能做什么。 Interesting, it sent me on a little quest to go find out more about ham radios and what's out there now and what you can do.
这是一个非常有趣的领域可以研究，而且在加利 福尼亚想要消除的无尽清单中的众多事物之一。 It's a very interesting area to look into, and among the many, many never-ending list of things California wants to eliminate.
然后YouTube上的KnightU写道，吉米·埃金应该得到一个派（PI） 打脸，这个派是指P-I。对于那个结尾的数字序列，我完全准备好破解密码了。 Then KnightU on YouTube wrote, Jimmy Akin deserves a pie in the face, a pie as in P-I. For that number sequence at the end, I was all primed to break the code.
好吧，我只能对Knightu说，你最好念你的祷告吧，你这长耳朵的笨蛋。 Well, all I can say, Knightu, is you better say your prayers, you long-eared galooot.
YouTube上的Studio Lambs写道，自从它 们在《迷失》早期季节首次出现后，我就对它们感兴趣了。 Studio Lambs on YouTube writes, I've been interested in these since they first popped up in an early season of Lost.
在某种程度上，这些模拟形式的加密变得过时有点令人伤感，因为它们真的很聪明。 It's kind of sad in a way that these analog forms of encryption are being rendered obsolete, as they were really clever.
是的，我知道很多人提到了《迷失》以及这些在《迷失》中被使用的事实。 Yeah, and I know a lot of people mentioned Lost and the fact that these were used on Lost.
是的，它们很聪明，而且它们以一种明显的方式呈现，让人们容易理解。 And yeah, they were clever, and they were in the clear in a way that made it obvious to people.
所以你可以，它使它们变得有趣，你知道，听和猜测。 So you could, it made them fun to, you know, listen to and speculate about.
然后Santiago在YouTube上写道，又一集超级神兽。 And then Santiago writes on YouTube another super megazord episode.
是的，非常感谢你，Santiago。 Yeah, thank you so much, Santiago.
Joey在YouTube上写道，我想知道在内容 和评论之间，YouTube上有多少数字电台。 Joey on YouTube writes, I wonder how many number stations are on YouTube between content and comments.
是的，我认为这几乎肯定正在发生：人们正在使用YouTube和其 他网络服务来有效地做与数字电台相同的事情，在明处隐藏传输或隐藏 消息，无论是在视频中，还是在视频的元数据中，或者在评论区中。 Yeah, this is something that is almost certainly, I think, happening: that people are using YouTube and other web services to effectively do the same thing as number stations, to hide transmissions or hide messages in plain sight, either in videos or in the metadata of videos or in the comment section.
可能在YouTube和其他网络服务、Facebook 、各种东西、Twitter上一直都有间谍对话在进行。 There's probably spy conversations happening on YouTube and other web services, Facebook, all kinds of things, Twitter, all the time.
仅仅因为我们现在做得更好，并且有这些新的通信方式，隐藏它们比 过去你必须使用短波广播电台等来广播你的消息的日子要容易得多。 And just because we're so much better at it now and have these new means of communication, it's easier to disguise them than it was in the day when you had to use a shortwave radio station and stuff to broadcast your messages.
然后Jennifer在Facebook上写道，我最终与一个朋 友进行了一次关于这一集的长谈，最后只是发给他们节目的链接。 Then Jennifer writes on Facebook, I ended up in a lengthy conversation with a friend about this episode and finally just sent them the link for the show.
我是一个赞助者，投票支持这个主题因为它听起来很酷，但我不知道它是关于什么的。 I'm a patron and voted for this topic because it sounded cool, but I had no idea what it was about.
迷人！ Fascinating!
非常感谢你，Jennifer。 Thank you so much, Jennifer.
我们真的很感谢你的慷慨以及所有赞助者的慷慨，我们喜欢为你做我们的月度赞助者集。 We really appreciate your generosity and that of all of our patrons, and we love doing our monthly patron episode for you.
吉米，这周我们有什么神秘的头条新闻？ And Jimmy, what do we have for mysterious headlines this week?
嗯，既然我们在谈论伯利恒之星，它很可能是木星或我们太阳 系中的其他现象，我想我会为头条新闻选择一个太阳系主题。 Well, since we were talking about the Star of Bethlehem, which may well have been Jupiter or other phenomena here in our solar system, I thought I'd have a solar system theme for the headlines.
所以第一个链接将是关于土星环的谜。 So the first link is going to be to the mystery of Saturn's rings.
关于土星环有一个争议。 There is a controversy about Saturn's rings.
最初，人们假设它们已经存在了四十五亿年，所以它们和太阳系一样古老。 Initially, people assumed they'd been there for four and a half billion years, so they were as old as the solar system.
但随后证据表明它们可能只有约1亿年历史，这将把它们追溯到恐龙时代。 But then evidence came to light that they may only be about 100 million years old, which would date them back to the time of the dinosaurs.
但现在对于它们到底有多老还有争议，而且它们在未来可能也不会持续超过1亿年。 But then there's now a dispute about exactly how old they are, and they also may not last for much more than 100 million years into the future.
我们可以看到物质从它们中降落到土星上，所以那个环系统可能正在消失。 We can see material raining out of them onto Saturn, and so that ring system may be disappearing.
所以我们可能生活在太阳系历史中的一个特权位 置，在那里我们能够看到这些真正美丽的环。 And so we may live in a privileged position in our solar system's history where we get to see these really beautiful rings.
所以我们会为你提供所有这些的链接。 So we'll have a link to all of that for you.
此外，如果你想像电影《2001年：太空漫游》中那样去土星，你 可能需要使用人工冬眠来到达那里，因为那是一段相当长的旅程。 Also, if you want to go to Saturn like they did in the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey, you might want to use artificial hibernation to get there because it's kind of a lengthy trip.
我们现在已经成功诱导了人工人类冬眠。 And we have now successfully induced artificial human hibernation.
他们目前并没有将其用于太空旅行，但他们已经将人降温并用盐水溶液替换了他们的血液。 They're not using it for space travel at the moment, but they have cooled people down and replaced their blood with like—saline solution.
是的，盐水溶液，冷却的盐水溶液，保持身体冷却以便在他们进行 医疗程序时能存活更长时间，然后再把血液泵回去并给他们增温。 Yeah, saline solution, chilled saline solution, to keep the body cold so it would stay alive longer while they performed a medical procedure on them, then pumped their blood back in and warmed them up.
从理论上讲，你可以做同样的事情，就像《2001年：太空漫游》中的宇航员那样。 And you could hypothetically do the same thing just like the astronauts in 2001: A Space Odyssey.
除非你的天线开始损坏或你的人工智能开始发疯，否则你应该能很好地到达土星。 And unless your antenna starts to break or your AI starts to go crazy, you should get to Saturn just fine.
对不起，戴夫，我不能那样做。 I'm sorry, Dave, I can't do that.
所以在我即将结束前，我会问你，我们的下一集将是关于什么的？ So before I'm going to end in a minute, I'll ask you, what's our next episode going to be about?
但首先，我想花点时间感谢使这个节目成为可能的赞助者，包括Step hanie W，Kathleen F，Daniel D，Kell y B和Max S。他们在SQPN.com/give的慷慨捐赠使 我们能够继续制作吉米·埃金的神秘世界和星际探索的所有节目。 But first, I want to take a moment to thank our patrons who make this show possible, including Stephanie W, Kathleen F, Daniel D, Kelly B, and Max S. Their generous donations at SQPN.com/give make it possible for us to continue Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World and all the shows at StarQuest.
你可以通过访问SQPN.com/give加入他们。 You can join them by visiting SQPN.com/give.
所以，吉米，我们的下一集将是关于什么的？ So, Jimmy, what's our next episode going to be about?
嗯，由于它将落在圣诞节和新年之间的那一周，我们 将为在那段时间听播客的人做一个奇怪问题的集数。 Well, since it's going to fall in the week between Christmas and New Year's, we're going to have a weird questions episode for people who are listening to their podcast during that time.
然后，在一月的第一周，我们将有我们当月的赞助者集，它将是关于《圣血，圣杯》的。 Then, in the first week of January, we're going to have our patrons episode for the month, which is going to be on Holy Blood, Holy Grail.
那是臭名昭著地启发了臭名昭著的《达芬奇密码》的书。 That's the book that infamously inspired the infamous Da Vinci Code.
这是一个关于耶稣的阴谋论，我们将对它进行研究。 It's a conspiracy about Jesus, and we're going to take a look at it.
所以，一月份是《圣血，圣杯》。 So, Holy Blood, Holy Grail in January.
太好了。 Excellent.
好了，我们就讲到这里。 Well, that's it from us.
你对圣经中东方术士之谜有什么看法？ What do you think about the mystery of the Magi of the Bible?
你可以通过访问SQPN.com/mysterious 或吉米·埃金的神秘世界Facebook页面告诉我们。 You can let us know by visiting SQPN.com slash mysterious or the Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World Facebook page.
给我们发送电子邮件到mysterious@SQPN.com或发送推文到 @Mys_world，带有标签#MysteriousFeedback。 Send us an email to mysterious at SQPN.com or send a tweet to @Mys_underscore_world with the hashtag of #MysteriousFeedback.
如果你还没有这样做，请在Apple Podcasts、Google Play、S titcher、TuneIn、Spotify、iHeart Radio、你喜欢的 播客应用上订阅播客，或者在我们的YouTube频道上，你应该点击铃铛以获取通知。 If you have not yet done so, please subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, Spotify, iHeart Radio, your favorite podcast app, or on our YouTube channel, where you should hit the bell to get notifications.
你可以在我们的节目备注SQPN.com/mysteriou s上找到吉米的资源的所有链接，以及那些神秘头条新闻的链接。 You can find all the links from Jimmy's resources from our discussion and links to those mysterious headlines on our show notes at SQPN.com slash mysterious.
下次见面之前，吉米·埃金，感谢你与我们一起探索我们的神秘世界。 Until next time, Jimmy Akin, thank you for exploring with us our Mysterious World.
谢谢你，唐姆，祝你圣诞快乐，也祝所有听众圣诞快乐。 Thank you, Dom, and Merry Christmas to you, and Merry Christmas to all the listeners.
我再次是唐姆·贝蒂内利。 And once again, I'm Dom Bettinelli.
感谢你收听星际探索上的吉米·埃金的神秘世界，圣诞快乐，各位。 Thank you for listening to Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World on StarQuest, and Merry Christmas, everyone.