- start: 0.029
  end: 5.992
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Hello and welcome to Focus, the Catholic Answers podcast for living, understanding, and defending your Catholic faith.
  zh: 大家好，欢迎收听公教答疑播客Focus，这里我们探讨如何生活、理解和捍卫公教信仰。
- start: 5.992
  end: 11.034
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm Cy Kellett, your host, and Carlo Broussard is here with us to talk about the Rapture.
  zh: 我是主持人Cy Kellett，今天Carlo Broussard和我们一起来谈谈被提的话题。
- start: 11.034
  end: 15.957
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Is it something you should be anticipating, working towards, or worried about?
  zh: 这是不是一件你应该期待、努力追求或担心的事呢？
- start: 16.417
  end: 29.677
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: As a matter of fact, none of the above, and Carlo will explain how this 19th-century teaching, invented here in America, came to be seen by many Catholics as part of the faith, but it is not part of the faith.
  zh: 事实上，以上都不是。Carlo将为我们解释这个十九世纪在美国发明的教义是如何被许多公教徒误认为是信仰的一部分的，但实际上它并不是信仰的组成部分。
- start: 29.677
  end: 36.902
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Catholic teaching on the end times, however, is really, really good, and you'll want to get some insights into that from Carlo as well.
  zh: 不过，公教会关于末世的教导确实非常好，你一定也想听听Carlo对此的见解。
- start: 36.902
  end: 45.927
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Remember to subscribe to Focus wherever you get your podcasts—Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen—so that you'll be notified when new episodes are released.
  zh: 别忘了在你常用的播客平台上订阅Focus节目——无论是苹果播客、Spotify、Stitcher还是其他平台——这样新节目发布时你就能收到通知。
- start: 45.927
  end: 52.278
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And please leave us that five-star review; it makes all the difference in growing this podcast.
  zh: 请给我们五星好评，这对我们播客的成长真的非常重要。
- start: 52.278
  end: 58.209
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I wanted to do a special effect, but I don't think we can do a special effect where I just disappear right now so that it would seem like I got raptured.
  zh: 我本想做个特效，让我突然消失，就好像我被提了一样，但我想我们可能做不到。
- start: 58.209
  end: 60.753
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But in any case, here's Carlo on the Rapture.
  zh: 不管怎样，让我们听听Carlo谈谈被提的话题。
- start: 65.891
  end: 76.561
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm just going to tell you, Carlo, first why I don't like talking about the Rapture, because there are all these words like post-tribulation, and I don't know, like the words get so confusing to me.
  zh: Carlo，我先告诉你为什么我不喜欢谈论被提，因为有太多像「大灾难后」这样的词，我不知道，这些词对我来说太混乱了。
- start: 76.561
  end: 78.002
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So you're going to have to help me.
  zh: 所以你得帮帮我。
- start: 78.383
  end: 82.607
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: First, are you at all worried about being left behind when the Rapture happens?
  zh: 首先，你会担心被提发生时自己被留下来吗？
- start: 82.607
  end: 90.343
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: I am not worried about being left behind because I desire to be left behind.
  zh: 我一点也不担心被留下来，因为我希望被留下来。
- start: 90.343
  end: 91.423
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Okay, you got to explain that.
  zh: 好吧，你得解释一下这是为什么。
- start: 91.423
  end: 94.124
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Great, very good, very good.
  zh: 太好了，很好，很好。
- start: 94.124
  end: 99.606
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Well, before we explain that, maybe it's important to articulate what we're talking about here.
  zh: 好吧，在解释这个之前，也许我们应该先说清楚我们到底在讨论什么。
- start: 99.606
  end: 100.946
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: We're talking about the Rapture.
  zh: 我们在讨论被提。
- start: 100.946
  end: 108.009
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So there are a variety of different positions on the Rapture, right?
  zh: 关于被提有很多不同的观点，对吧？
- start: 108.009
  end: 119.291
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: The most common that we encounter in our daily conversations with our Protestant family members and friends is what is known as the pre-tribulational pre-millennialism Rapture.
  zh: 在我们与新教徒家人和朋友的日常交谈中最常见的是所谓的灾前被提前千禧年论。
- start: 119.291
  end: 120.771
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's my favorite right there.
  zh: 这正是我最喜欢说的。
- start: 120.771
  end: 124.333
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Yeah, and basically, this is coming from John Nelson Darby, right?
  zh: 是的，这基本上是来自约翰·纳尔逊·达比，对吧？
- start: 124.333
  end: 132.196
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Starting about 1833, he was an Anglo-Irish Bible teacher, one of the influential figures among the original Plymouth Brethren.
  zh: 大约从1833年开始，这位英裔爱尔兰圣经教师是早期普利茅斯弟兄会中最有影响力的人物之一。
- start: 132.196
  end: 150.286
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But the idea is that believers in Jesus Christ will be snatched away, taken from the earth into the air with Christ, kind of partially coming down to take the righteous with Him before the great seven-year tribulation at the end of time, right?
  zh: 这种说法认为，基督的信徒们会被提走，从地上被带到空中与基督相遇，基督会部分下降来接走义人，这一切都发生在末世七年大灾难之前，对吧？
- start: 150.693
  end: 155.055
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And so that's why it's referred to as the pre-tribulational view.
  zh: 这就是为什么它被称为灾前论。
- start: 155.356
  end: 161.9
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Subsequently, after the seven-year tribulation, there's the view that there will be a literal 1,000-year reign.
  zh: 在七年大灾难之后，他们认为会有一个字面意义上的一千年统治。
- start: 161.9
  end: 165.442
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Therefore, you have pre-tribulational premillennialism.
  zh: 因此，这就是所谓的灾前前千禧年论。
- start: 165.442
  end: 165.802
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Oh, I see.
  zh: 哦，我明白了。
- start: 165.802
  end: 166.963
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, the millennium, right?
  zh: 是的，千禧年，对吧？
- start: 166.963
  end: 177.689
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And this is distinguished from other types of premillennialism, whether it's pre-trib, you know, from mid-trib or post-trib premillennialism.
  zh: 这与其他类型的前千禧年论不同，无论是灾前、灾中还是灾后前千禧年论。
- start: 177.689
  end: 181.932
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But then you also have views such as post-millennialism, right?
  zh: 但还有后千禧年论这样的观点，对吧？
- start: 181.932
  end: 189.277
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And then you also have amillennialism, which is more of the Catholic view in association with our Orthodox brothers and sisters as well.
  zh: 还有非千禧年论，这更接近公教会的观点，也是与我们东正教弟兄姐妹共同持有的观点。
- start: 189.277
  end: 202.047
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But what we're focusing on here, what is commonly referred to as the Rapture when you're just talking to your Protestant friend, your neighbor, or something, is the pre-tribulational premillennialism view.
  zh: 但我们这里要关注的，就是当你和新教徒朋友或邻居谈论被提时通常指的那种观点，也就是灾前前千禧年论。
- start: 202.047
  end: 211.662
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Now, the word Rapture comes—this is interesting—the word Rapture comes from the Latin Vulgate's word rapiemur, which means we're caught up.
  zh: 现在，「被提」这个词很有趣，它来自拉丁文武加大译本中的rapiemur，意思是「我们被提上去」。
- start: 211.903
  end: 223.114
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: This actually translates the Greek word harpagesometha in 1 Thessalonians 4, verse 17, one of the two Bible passages that we'll be considering in this Focus episode.
  zh: 这实际上是翻译自帖撒罗尼迦前书四章17节中的希腊文harpagesometha，这是我们在本期Focus节目中要讨论的两段圣经章节之一。
- start: 223.114
  end: 225.116
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: One of the two Bible passages that they'll appeal to.
  zh: 这是他们常引用的两段圣经章节之一。
- start: 225.116
  end: 231.278
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But what's interesting is that they're referring to the Rapture, and that's coming from the Latin Vulgate.
  zh: 有趣的是，他们谈论被提时用的词竟然来自拉丁文武加大译本。
- start: 231.278
  end: 235.399
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: They're using Catholic language here—a little bit of irony there.
  zh: 他们在这里用的是公教的用语——这里有点讽刺意味。
- start: 235.399
  end: 237.26
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, right, right.
  zh: 是的，没错，没错。
- start: 237.26
  end: 239.0
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's not in the King James Version, huh?
  zh: 这个词在英王钦定本里可没有，是吧？
- start: 239.0
  end: 244.862
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Well, it's the Latin rapiemur, but it's translating the Greek word there.
  zh: 嗯，这是拉丁文rapiemur，但它是在翻译那个希腊词。
- start: 244.949
  end: 257.303
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And so that's coming from 1 Thessalonians 4, verse 17. The other Bible passage that's often appealed to is Matthew 24, verses 37-40, or its parallel passage, Luke 17, verses 24-37. And that's where they get the left behind.
  zh: 这来自帖撒罗尼迦前书四章17节。另一个经常被引用的经文是马太福音二十四章37-40节，或者它的平行经文路加福音十七章24-37节。这就是他们「被撇下」说法的来源。
- start: 265.293
  end: 265.854
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I see.
  zh: 我明白了。
- start: 265.854
  end: 266.454
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Gotcha.
  zh: 明白了。
- start: 266.454
  end: 269.016
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, so we'll start with Matthew then.
  zh: 好，那我们就从马太福音开始。
- start: 269.577
  end: 277.883
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And you're saying this is the passage that's used to justify this pre-tribulational premillennialism and the idea of the Rapture?
  zh: 你是说这段经文被用来证明灾前前千禧年论和被提的观点？
- start: 277.883
  end: 278.644
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, okay.
  zh: 是的，好的。
- start: 278.644
  end: 283.187
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: 'So here''s what Jesus says: As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.'
  zh: 这是耶稣说的话：「挪亚的日子怎样，人子降临也要怎样。」
- start: 283.187
  end: 296.551
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: For as in those days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they didn't know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
  zh: 「当洪水以前的日子，人照常吃喝嫁娶，直到挪亚进方舟的那日，不知不觉洪水来了，把他们全都冲去。人子降临也要这样。」
- start: 296.551
  end: 301.975
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Then two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left.
  zh: 那时，两个人在田里，取去一个，撇下一个。
- start: 302.115
  end: 306.678
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left.
  zh: 两个女人在磨坊推磨，取去一个，撇下一个。
- start: 306.678
  end: 308.52
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And this is where the left behind comes from.
  zh: 这就是「被撇下」这个说法的来源。
- start: 308.52
  end: 309.661
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Do you want to be left behind?
  zh: 你想被撇下吗？
- start: 309.661
  end: 312.223
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, but the Noah part is really important to this.
  zh: 是的，但挪亚的这部分内容真的很重要。
- start: 312.223
  end: 313.143
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I just realized.
  zh: 我刚刚意识到。
- start: 313.143
  end: 314.344
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Yeah, we're going to get there.
  zh: 是的，我们马上就要谈到这个。
- start: 314.344
  end: 322.971
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Watch, therefore—actually, I didn't put this one in the notes, but you got it—watch, therefore, Jesus says, For you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
  zh: 所以要警醒—其实我没有把这段写在笔记里，但你说到了—所以要警醒，因为你们不知道你们的主是哪一天来到。
- start: 322.971
  end: 339.65
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: 'Now here''s what''s interesting: there''s an added bit by Luke in his version, Luke chapter 17, verse 37. Subsequent to everything Matthew is recording here, Luke adds this bit: And they said to Him, ''Where, Lord?'''
  zh: 现在有趣的是：路加在他的版本中加了一段，就是路加福音十七章37节。在马太所记载的这些之后，路加添加了这样一段：他们问他说：「主啊，在哪里呢？」
- start: 339.85
  end: 344.994
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And He said to them, 'Where the body is, there the eagles will be gathered.'
  zh: 耶稣对他们说：「尸首在哪里，鹰也必聚在那里。」
- start: 344.994
  end: 345.434
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: All right?
  zh: 明白吗？
- start: 345.434
  end: 355.112
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Yeah, so that's the text that many Protestants will appeal to in order to defend or support their pre-tribulation rapturous view.
  zh: 是的，这就是许多新教徒用来为他们的灾前被提观点辩护或支持的经文。
- start: 355.112
  end: 356.132
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Right.
  zh: 对。
- start: 356.132
  end: 367.755
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: 'So here''s the question: notice, first of all, that our Protestant friends are identifying those who are being taken away as the righteous ones.'
  zh: 所以问题来了：首先要注意，我们的新教朋友们把那些被取去的人认定为义人。
- start: 367.755
  end: 369.396
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Exactly, as the believers.
  zh: 没错，就是把他们当作信徒。
- start: 369.396
  end: 379.158
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Yeah, and the ones left behind are the unbelievers, the unrighteous, who are going to have to experience the final push of evil, the tribulation, right?
  zh: 是的，而那些被撇下的就是不信的人，不义的人，他们将不得不经历最后的邪恶冲击，就是大灾难，对吧？
- start: 380.118
  end: 392.319
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But if you read it closely, I argue—and many others do—that actually those who are being taken away are the wicked ones, and the righteous are the ones left behind.
  zh: 但如果仔细阅读，我认为—很多人也这么认为—实际上那些被取去的是恶人，而义人才是被留下的。
- start: 392.319
  end: 399.805
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Now, you already picked up a detail in there when it compared the coming of the Son of Man to the days of Noah.
  zh: 现在，当经文把人子降临比作挪亚的日子时，你已经注意到了其中的细节。
- start: 400.145
  end: 402.347
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Who were the ones who were wiped away?
  zh: 谁是被冲去的人？
- start: 402.347
  end: 406.11
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It says the flood came and swept them all away.
  zh: 经上说洪水来了，把他们全都冲去。
- start: 406.11
  end: 407.431
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Who were the ones that were swept away?
  zh: 被冲走的是谁？
- start: 407.431
  end: 407.952
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Noah?
  zh: 挪亚吗？
- start: 407.952
  end: 408.573
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The wicked ones.
  zh: 是恶人。
- start: 408.573
  end: 409.174
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The wicked ones.
  zh: 是恶人。
- start: 409.174
  end: 410.435
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Who was left behind?
  zh: 谁被留下来了？
- start: 410.435
  end: 411.477
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, the good.
  zh: 是的，好人。
- start: 411.477
  end: 413.619
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: The good—Noah and his family.
  zh: 好人—挪亚和他的家人。
- start: 413.619
  end: 425.39
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So that's one way, one route you can take in order to show that the ones being taken are the wicked and the ones being left behind are the righteous.
  zh: 这是一种方法，一条途径，可以用来说明被取去的是恶人，被留下的是义人。
- start: 425.39
  end: 437.393
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But here's another way that we can do it, Cy, and I must admit I got this from my colleague and good friend here, Tim Staples, many years ago, hearing him give a talk on the Rapture, and it makes a lot of sense.
  zh: 但是Cy，还有另一种解释方法，我必须承认这是多年前从我的同事和好朋友Tim Staples那里听来的，当时他在讲被提的话题，这个解释很有道理。
- start: 437.393
  end: 448.475
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: 'So consider this: consider the question that the apostles ask in response to Jesus saying, Two in the field; one taken, one left.'
  zh: 想想看：想想使徒们听到耶稣说'两个人在田里，取去一个，撇下一个'时问的问题。
- start: 448.475
  end: 451.956
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Two women grinding at the mill; one taken, the other left.
  zh: 两个女人在磨坊推磨，取去一个，撇下一个。
- start: 451.956
  end: 456.493
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Luke records the apostles asking in response to that, Where, Lord?
  zh: 路加记载使徒们回应说：'主啊，在哪里呢？'
- start: 456.493
  end: 472.482
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Now that question of where cannot be referring to those who are left behind because they already know where they're left behind—they're left in the field, they're left grinding at the mill.
  zh: 这个'在哪里'的问题不可能是指那些被撇下的人，因为他们已经知道被撇下在哪里—他们被撇在田里，被撇在磨坊。
- start: 472.502
  end: 474.843
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So the question of Where, Lord?
  zh: 所以'主啊，在哪里呢？'这个问题
- start: 474.884
  end: 479.581
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: must refer to those who are being taken away, right?
  zh: 一定是指那些被取去的人，对吧？
- start: 479.581
  end: 479.982
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yes.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 479.982
  end: 484.105
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And so what does Jesus answer to the question, Where are they being taken away, Lord?
  zh: 那么耶稣是如何回答'主啊，他们被带到哪里去'这个问题的呢？
- start: 484.105
  end: 489.688
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's not like heaven and glory and a beautiful city with streets made of pearl—that's not what He says.
  zh: 他并没有说什么天堂、荣耀和街道用珍珠铺就的美丽城市。
- start: 489.688
  end: 493.131
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If the Rapture's view were correct, that's what Jesus would have said.
  zh: 如果被提的观点是对的，耶稣就会这样说。
- start: 493.131
  end: 493.771
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, right.
  zh: 是的，没错。
- start: 493.771
  end: 495.152
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But let's see what Jesus says.
  zh: 让我们看看耶稣说了什么。
- start: 495.152
  end: 501.456
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Jesus responds and says, Where the body is, there will the eagles gather.
  zh: 耶稣回答说：'尸首在哪里，鹰也必聚在那里。'
- start: 501.977
  end: 507.161
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Now, for the Rapture's view to be correct, this must refer to heaven, right?
  zh: 现在，如果被提的观点是对的，这必须是指天堂，对吧？
- start: 507.161
  end: 507.781
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Right.
  zh: 对。
- start: 507.941
  end: 523.691
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And there's some warrant to this view because eagles—the Greek word for eagles, aetos, that's the plural of etos spoken of here—could be seen in a positive sense, perhaps because Revelation 4-7 speaks of one of the four living creatures as an eagle, right?
  zh: 这种解释有一定根据，因为鹰—这里用的希腊词是aetos，是etos的复数—可能有积极的含义，也许是因为启示录四至七章提到四活物之一像鹰，对吧？
- start: 523.691
  end: 525.152
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: The same Greek word there, aetos.
  zh: 那里用的也是同样的希腊词，aetos。
- start: 525.152
  end: 534.938
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So aetos could refer to an eagle in the positive sense, like soaring high in the sky, and maybe that's what Jesus is referring to, and that's heaven.
  zh: 所以aetos可能是以积极的意义指鹰，比如在天空高飞，也许这就是耶稣所指的，就是天堂。
- start: 534.938
  end: 537.905
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Well, actually, this is not what Jesus is referring to.
  zh: 但实际上，这不是耶稣所指的。
- start: 537.905
  end: 544.389
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Aetos can mean like eagle, but it can also mean vulture.
  zh: Aetos可以指鹰，但也可以指秃鹫。
- start: 544.389
  end: 552.233
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It generally refers to a carrion-eating bird, like a bird that eats the decaying flesh of dead animals, right?
  zh: 它通常指食腐鸟类，就是吃死动物腐肉的鸟，对吧？
- start: 552.773
  end: 556.415
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Like an eagle or a vulture—that's the general sense of the term.
  zh: 比如鹰或秃鹫—这是这个词的一般含义。
- start: 556.415
  end: 563.119
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And I argue that this is the meaning that Jesus intends to emphasize here.
  zh: 我认为这才是耶稣在这里要强调的含义。
- start: 563.179
  end: 573.213
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: He intends to emphasize the flesh-eating aspect because He says, Where the body is, there will the eagles gather.
  zh: 他要强调的是吃肉这一方面，因为他说'尸首在哪里，鹰也必聚在那里。'
- start: 573.213
  end: 581.818
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: In other words, the body will be left for the eagles—these vultures, these carrion-eating birds—to come and eat the decaying flesh, right?
  zh: 换句话说，尸体会被留给这些鹰—这些秃鹫，这些食腐鸟—来吃这腐烂的肉，对吧？
- start: 581.818
  end: 582.658
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Right.
  zh: 对。
- start: 582.738
  end: 583.959
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: That can't be heaven, brother.
  zh: 这不可能是天堂，兄弟。
- start: 583.959
  end: 589.702
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: No, heaven is not about carrion-eating birds eating decaying flesh, right?
  zh: 是啊，天堂怎么会是食腐鸟吃腐肉的地方呢，对吧？
- start: 589.702
  end: 591.062
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: That sounds more like hell.
  zh: 这听起来更像是地狱。
- start: 591.062
  end: 594.324
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: That sounds more like a place of torment.
  zh: 这更像是一个受苦的地方。
- start: 594.324
  end: 599.159
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So, since those taken away—so to the question, should I be left behind?
  zh: 所以，既然那些被取去的—回到那个问题，我应该被撇下吗？
- start: 599.159
  end: 600.1
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: The answer is yes.
  zh: 答案是应该。
- start: 614.83
  end: 620.632
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: You want to be left behind because you want to be among the righteous, like Noah and his family.
  zh: 你应该想被撇下，因为你要像挪亚和他的家人一样，在义人当中。
- start: 620.632
  end: 626.294
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You don't want to be the one swept away, and the Son of Man is coming, so you want to be left behind to greet Him when He's coming.
  zh: 你不会想成为被冲走的人，人子即将来临，所以你要被留下来迎接他的到来。
- start: 626.294
  end: 628.274
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Amen to that!
  zh: 阿们！
- start: 628.274
  end: 636.917
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: To be able to greet Him, and as we're going to see, and when we come to 1 Thessalonians 4, to usher Him in to establish the new heaven and the new earth.
  zh: 能够迎接他，而且正如我们将要看到的，当我们讲到帖撒罗尼迦前书第四章时，是要迎接他来建立新天新地。
- start: 636.917
  end: 652.642
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And even if we interpret this side as referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, it still fits because with the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, there were bodies and corpses filling the streets of Jerusalem.
  zh: 即使我们把这段经文解释为指公元70年耶路撒冷的毁灭，也是合理的，因为在公元70年耶路撒冷被毁时，街道上到处都是尸体。
- start: 652.642
  end: 653.483
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And what do you have?
  zh: 然后会有什么？
- start: 653.483
  end: 656.085
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: You have flesh-eating birds coming, right?
  zh: 会有食腐鸟来，对吧？
- start: 656.086
  end: 672.366
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And so those who are taken away, right, are those who are taken to destruction, and the ones who are left behind are going to be the ones to experience destruction—the new heaven and the new earth when applied to the end of time.
  zh: 所以那些被取去的人是被带去毁灭的，而那些被撇下的人将要经历的是新天新地的来临—这是指末世而言。
- start: 672.366
  end: 675.648
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And finally, it's just—there's no secret coming here, right?
  zh: 最后，这里根本没有什么秘密的降临，对吧？
- start: 675.968
  end: 681.931
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: In order for the Rapture's view to be correct, it would have to be a secret coming because that's common among the Rapture's view.
  zh: 如果被提的观点是对的，那就必须是一个秘密的降临，因为这是被提论普遍的观点。
- start: 681.951
  end: 689.575
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Christ comes down partially in a secret way, not in all of His glory like at the end of time, but in a secret way to snatch away the righteous.
  zh: 基督会以一种秘密的方式部分降临，不是像末世时那样带着所有的荣耀，而是秘密地来提走义人。
- start: 689.575
  end: 696.359
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But here, the way Jesus describes His coming is not very secretive, right?
  zh: 但在这里，耶稣描述他降临的方式一点也不秘密，对吧？
- start: 696.879
  end: 707.981
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Because Jesus says, They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, and He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call.
  zh: 因为耶稣说，他们要看见人子带着能力和大荣耀，驾着天上的云降临，他要差遣使者用号筒的大声。
- start: 707.981
  end: 709.882
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: That doesn't sound very secretive, does it?
  zh: 这听起来一点也不秘密，对吧？
- start: 709.882
  end: 711.122
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, not at all.
  zh: 是的，一点也不秘密。
- start: 711.363
  end: 725.17
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So for these reasons, we can read this passage of Matthew 24 and its parallel version in Luke 17 and conclude this does not support the pre-tribulational premillennialism rapturous view.
  zh: 因此，基于这些原因，我们读马太福音二十四章和路加福音十七章的平行经文时，可以得出结论说这并不支持灾前前千禧年被提的观点。
- start: 726.331
  end: 728.952
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And to the question, should I be left behind?
  zh: 至于那个问题，我应该被撇下吗？
- start: 729.426
  end: 730.787
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: I think the answer is yes.
  zh: 我认为答案是应该。
- start: 730.787
  end: 731.568
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, all right.
  zh: 好的，明白了。
- start: 731.568
  end: 738.635
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So you mentioned then the first letter to the Thessalonians also as being used in support of the idea of the Rapture.
  zh: 所以你提到帖撒罗尼迦前书也被用来支持被提的观点。
- start: 738.635
  end: 749.885
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Right, and that's where Paul says, We who are alive, we who are left, shall be caught up together with Him in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
  zh: 是的，保罗在那里说，我们这活着还存留的人，必和他一同被提到云里，在空中与主相遇。这样，我们就要和主永远同在。
- start: 749.885
  end: 751.867
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Therefore, comfort one another with these words.
  zh: 所以，你们当用这些话彼此劝慰。
- start: 751.867
  end: 757.384
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: This is within the context of the coming of the Lord, right?
  zh: 这是在主降临的背景下说的，对吧？
- start: 757.384
  end: 763.727
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So at the coming of the Lord, Paul says we're going to be caught up in the air to meet the Lord, and we're going to be with Him always.
  zh: 所以在主降临时，保罗说我们要被提到空中与主相遇，并要永远与他同在。
- start: 763.887
  end: 770.75
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Many appeal to this passage in support of this pre-tribulational premillennialism rapturous view.
  zh: 许多人引用这段经文来支持灾前前千禧年被提的观点。
- start: 771.23
  end: 774.351
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But here's the problem—there are several problems, actually.
  zh: 但这里有个问题—实际上有几个问题。
- start: 774.351
  end: 782.719
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Number one, the rapturous interpretation misreads the text as a partial coming down of Christ, but that's not the case.
  zh: 第一，被提的解释错误地把经文理解为基督部分性的降临，但事实并非如此。
- start: 782.719
  end: 788.862
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Nowhere does it say that Christ comes down and then ascends back to heaven.
  zh: 经文nowhere没有说基督降下来然后又升回天上。
- start: 788.862
  end: 793.164
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Verse 15 just simply says the Lord will descend from heaven with a cry of command.
  zh: 第15节只是简单地说主必从天降临，有呼叫的声音。
- start: 793.164
  end: 796.646
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It says nothing about Him going back, right?
  zh: 没有提到他要回去，对吧？
- start: 796.646
  end: 801.108
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So this is the first problem with the rapturous interpretation.
  zh: 这是被提解释的第一个问题。
- start: 801.328
  end: 813.318
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Now, the second problem is that there are certain details, Cy, in this passage that reveal Paul is talking about the final coming of Jesus at the end of time.
  zh: 现在，第二个问题是，Cy，这段经文中有一些细节表明保罗说的是耶稣在末世的最后降临。
- start: 813.538
  end: 821.661
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: 'So here''s the first detail: in verse 16, Paul talks about the resurrection, and the dead in Christ will rise first.'
  zh: 这是第一个细节：在第16节，保罗谈到复活，在基督里死了的人必先复活。
- start: 822.061
  end: 826.743
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Well, guess when the resurrection happens for Paul in Paul's theology?
  zh: 那么，在保罗的神学中，复活是什么时候发生的呢？
- start: 826.96
  end: 828.641
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It happens at the end of time, okay?
  zh: 是在末世的时候，明白吗？
- start: 828.641
  end: 855.531
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And we know this from 1 Corinthians chapter 15, verses 22 through 24. So if Paul is, in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, talking about being caught up with the Lord in the air at the coming of the Lord, if he's saying that's going to happen at the time of the resurrection, and according to 1 Corinthians 15:22-24, he tells us that the resurrection happens at the end of time, well then it follows that in 1 Thessalonians 4, what is he talking about?
  zh: 我们从哥林多前书十五章22至24节知道这一点。所以如果保罗在帖撒罗尼迦前书四章15-17节谈到在主降临时我们要在空中与主相遇，如果他说这要发生在复活的时候，而根据哥林多前书十五章22-24节，他告诉我们复活是在末世发生，那么在帖撒罗尼迦前书四章，他说的是什么？
- start: 855.531
  end: 864.522
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: He's talking about the coming of the Lord at the end of time, not some partial coming before the tribulation to snatch away the righteous.
  zh: 他说的是主在末世的降临，而不是在大灾难之前部分性地降临来提走义人。
- start: 864.522
  end: 865.923
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So that's one detail.
  zh: 这是一个细节。
- start: 865.923
  end: 868.464
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: There are a couple of others, but any thoughts on that?
  zh: 还有其他几点，但你对此有什么想法吗？
- start: 868.625
  end: 871.986
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, it's starting to seem like there is no Rapture.
  zh: 嗯，看起来似乎根本就没有被提这回事。
- start: 872.247
  end: 873.848
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Like, when do Catholics think the Rapture happens?
  zh: 那么，公教徒认为被提是什么时候发生的？
- start: 873.848
  end: 876.109
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Like, we don't believe it happens at all.
  zh: 就是说，我们根本不相信会发生被提。
- start: 876.109
  end: 905.931
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: If you mean by Rapture that we're going to be caught up with the Lord in the air to meet Him, to usher Him in at His final glorious coming, we do believe in the Rapture in that sense, which will take place at the end of time when Christ comes in glory again to vanquish all evil, to vanquish the Antichrist, to usher in the new heaven and new earth, with bodily resurrection, etc. And this actually gets to the plausible interpretation of what Paul is referring to here.
  zh: 如果你说的被提是指我们要在空中与主相遇，迎接他最后荣耀的降临，那么从这个意义上说我们确实相信被提，这将发生在末世，当基督再次荣耀降临时，他要战胜一切邪恶，战胜敌基督，迎来新天新地，伴随着身体复活等等。这实际上是对保罗所指的合理解释。
- start: 905.971
  end: 913.155
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: If he's talking about being caught up to meet the Lord in the air, if it's not the Rapture's view, then what does he mean?
  zh: 如果他说的是在空中与主相遇，如果不是被提论的观点，那他是什么意思？
- start: 913.155
  end: 914.396
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, okay, what does he mean?
  zh: 是的，好的，他是什么意思？
- start: 914.396
  end: 929.942
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And as many have said throughout the centuries of Christianity, this most likely refers to the righteous on earth at the time of the Second Coming, along with those righteous who are in the beatific vision prior to the Second Coming, right?
  zh: 正如基督教历代以来许多人所说，这很可能是指在主再来时地上的义人，以及在主再来之前已在天堂享见神的义人，对吧？
- start: 929.942
  end: 940.465
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: In the post-mortem state of existence, being taken up to meet the Lord in the air as He descends in all of glory to usher Him in.
  zh: 在死后的存在状态中，当主带着一切荣耀降临时，他们要被提到空中迎接他。
- start: 940.566
  end: 948.448
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Similar to how citizens of a city will go out of the city walls to meet a dignitary to usher him in.
  zh: 这就像城市的居民会出城迎接一位贵宾一样。
- start: 948.891
  end: 950.672
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And we actually see this in the Bible.
  zh: 我们在圣经中实际上也看到这样的例子。
- start: 950.672
  end: 960.516
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: For example, in Acts 28:14-17, we read how the brethren at Rome went out of the city to meet Paul as he approached.
  zh: 例如，在使徒行传二十八章14-17节，我们读到罗马的弟兄们如何出城迎接保罗。
- start: 960.516
  end: 962.476
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And we do this, right?
  zh: 我们也是这样做的，对吧？
- start: 962.777
  end: 972.481
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: When the president comes and lands at the airport, you'll have a big group of people there to meet him and to welcome him into the city, right?
  zh: 当总统来到机场降落时，会有一大群人在那里迎接他，欢迎他进城，对吧？
- start: 972.481
  end: 973.301
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, right.
  zh: 是的，没错。
- start: 973.301
  end: 974.722
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This is not a come down and go back up.
  zh: 这不是降下来然后再上去。
- start: 974.722
  end: 985.691
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It's not a come down and go back up; it's being caught up with Him to meet Him, to usher Him in, right, as He comes to establish the new heaven and the new earth.
  zh: 这不是降下来再上去；而是被提上去迎接他，迎接他进来，对吧，当他来建立新天新地的时候。
- start: 985.731
  end: 990.154
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And that is a more plausible reading of what Paul is talking about here.
  zh: 这是对保罗在这里所说的更合理的理解。
- start: 990.154
  end: 1004.962
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: That's the true rapturous understanding—here to be raptured, to be caught up with the Lord, to usher Him in to establish the new heaven and the new earth, as opposed to the pre-tribulation premillennialism rapturous view.
  zh: 这才是真正的被提的理解—被提上去，与主相遇，迎接他来建立新天新地，而不是灾前前千禧年的被提观点。
- start: 1005.768
  end: 1040.658
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So I think we have not only good reason to deny the pre-tribulation rapturous view, but also we have principles here in both Matthew 24 and 1 Thessalonians 4 that actually cohere with and support the Catholic view of the end times—that the coming of the Lord at the end of time in all of His glory is associated with the bodily resurrection, say, and us being caught up with Him in His glory to usher Him in to establish the new heaven and the new earth.
  zh: 所以我认为我们不仅有充分理由否定灾前被提的观点，而且在马太福音二十四章和帖撒罗尼迦前书四章中的这些原则实际上与公教的末世观相符并支持它—就是主在末世带着他一切的荣耀降临，与身体复活相关联，我们要在他的荣耀中被提上去迎接他，迎接他来建立新天新地。
- start: 1041.98
  end: 1048.024
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, can I just end with a little offbeat question?
  zh: 好的，我能问一个有点偏题的问题作为结束吗？
- start: 1048.365
  end: 1049.025
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Go ahead, brother.
  zh: 问吧，兄弟。
- start: 1049.025
  end: 1051.568
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Let's see if we can create a new symphony with that offbeat.
  zh: 让我们看看能否用这个变奏创作出新的交响乐。
- start: 1051.568
  end: 1054.289
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: We'll create a whole other song.
  zh: 我们要创作一首全新的歌。
- start: 1055.131
  end: 1061.235
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This is not mere symbolism in the Catholic way of understanding; this is history.
  zh: 在公教的理解中，这不仅仅是象征；这是历史。
- start: 1062.559
  end: 1067.523
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This is prophecy that will really come true; the Lord really will descend.
  zh: 这是真实会实现的预言；主真的会降临。
- start: 1068.985
  end: 1069.685
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Am I right about that?
  zh: 我说得对吗？
- start: 1069.685
  end: 1070.806
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Well, that's a good question.
  zh: 嗯，这是个好问题。
- start: 1070.806
  end: 1075.35
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: I'd have to inquire a little bit more as to the precise nature of that.
  zh: 我需要进一步询问一下这具体是什么性质。
- start: 1075.35
  end: 1092.835
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: You could very well take it as if we will literally be caught up with Him in the air, like up there in the sky, and then come down with Him in the sort of concrete way that our imagination conjures when we think about this, right?
  zh: 你完全可以从字面意思理解，我们会真的被提到空中，就像在天空中那样，然后以我们想象中那种具体的方式与他一同降临，对吧？
- start: 1093.118
  end: 1108.581
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Or it could be taken in a metaphorical sense—in the sense that we're going to be caught up in the Lord's glory and present with Him as He comes in His final glory and have some sort of metaphorical reading.
  zh: 或者也可以从比喻的角度理解—就是说我们会被主的荣耀所吸引，当他在最后荣耀中降临时与他同在，这是一种比喻性的解读。
- start: 1108.581
  end: 1121.621
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: I'm open to that interpretation, but I'm also open to a literal physical interpretation of somehow being caught up with the Lord so that those who are present on the earth with physical eyeballs at the time.
  zh: 我接受这种解释，但我也接受字面和物理意义上的解释，就是以某种方式被提到主那里，让当时在地上有肉眼的人能看见。
- start: 1121.621
  end: 1125.065
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Right, so I think there's room for differing interpretations here.
  zh: 对，所以我认为这里有不同解释的空间。
- start: 1125.065
  end: 1147.265
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But the descending part—the Second Coming—yeah, I mean, the Second Coming, the Lord will descend on the clouds of heaven, right?
  zh: 但关于降临的部分—主的第二次来临—是的，我是说，在第二次来临时，主会驾着天上的云降临，对吧？
- start: 1147.326
  end: 1166.119
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And so I'm open to taking that in a literal way, but I'm also open—unless I'm not aware of some infallible teaching of the Church—I'm also open to that being a metaphorical way of saying that Christ will manifest Himself physically on the earth in a glorious way.
  zh: 所以我接受字面上的理解，但我也接受—除非有我不知道的教会的不可错误训导—这可能是一种比喻的说法，表示基督将以荣耀的方式在地上显现。
- start: 1166.158
  end: 1173.563
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Because the Lord coming on the clouds of heaven, that's symbolism in the Old Testament for God coming in judgment.
  zh: 因为主驾云降临，这在旧约中是上主来施行审判的象征。
- start: 1173.603
  end: 1192.436
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So it could very well be when Jesus refers to Himself more like a Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, and even speaks about that when He's talking about His coming—the coming of the Son of Man—that could be referencing the Son of Man coming in judgment for the evil ones on the earth at the end of time and also the Antichrist.
  zh: 所以当耶稣称自己像人子驾着天上的云降临，甚至当他谈到他的来临—人子的降临—时，这可能是指人子在末世来审判地上的恶人和敌基督。
- start: 1192.436
  end: 1202.017
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Yeah, but one could interpret it to be physically the Lord descending on a cloud, right, in all of His glory, manifesting Himself.
  zh: 是的，但也可以理解为主真的驾云降临，对吧，带着他所有的荣耀显现自己。
- start: 1202.017
  end: 1207.199
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So I think there's room for both interpretations there.
  zh: 所以我认为这两种解释都有空间。
- start: 1207.199
  end: 1210.059
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I do like having this conversation.
  zh: 我很喜欢这次谈话。
- start: 1210.38
  end: 1216.061
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now that I'm flying, when I'm flying on an airplane, I don't have to worry about the pilot getting raptured out like he did in the movie.
  zh: 现在当我坐飞机时，我不用担心飞行员像电影里那样突然被提走了。
- start: 1216.681
  end: 1217.542
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Thanks, Carlo.
  zh: 谢谢你，Carlo。
- start: 1217.542
  end: 1219.162
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Thank you, Cy. God bless you.
  zh: 谢谢你，Cy。愿神保佑你。
- start: 1220.523
  end: 1227.909
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, sorry if you were looking forward to the Rapture to find out that it's not to be expected, at least in the way that it is usually taught.
  zh: 好吧，如果你一直期待被提，现在发现它并不会如期而至，至少不是通常教导的那种方式，我很抱歉。
- start: 1227.909
  end: 1239.8
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But as you can see from what Carlo had to say, we've got a lot to look forward to, including the Second Coming of the Lord, whether we're here on the earth when He comes or whether we are with Him in His retinue when He comes.
  zh: 但正如Carlo所说的，我们有很多值得期待的事，包括主的第二次来临，无论我们是在他来临时还在地上，还是在他来临时已经在他的队伍中与他同在。
- start: 1239.8
  end: 1243.002
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Either way, it's awful good news that that is in the future.
  zh: 无论如何，这都是未来的好消息。
- start: 1243.203
  end: 1244.924
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Hey, we'd love to hear from you.
  zh: 嘿，我们很想听到你的声音。
- start: 1244.924
  end: 1248.845
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Just send us an email: focus@catholic.com'
  zh: 给我们发电子邮件：focus@catholic.com
- start: 1248.845
  end: 1250.225
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: is our address.
  zh: 这是我们的邮箱地址。
- start: 1250.406
  end: 1254.107
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you're watching on YouTube, please like and subscribe.
  zh: 如果你在YouTube上观看，请点赞并订阅。
- start: 1254.107
  end: 1257.748
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's how we grow on YouTube, and we'd like to grow on YouTube.
  zh: 这样我们的YouTube频道才能成长，我们也希望在YouTube上成长。
- start: 1257.788
  end: 1261.129
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you'd like to support us, you can go to GiveCatholic.com,
  zh: 如果你想支持我们，可以访问GiveCatholic.com，
- start: 1261.129
  end: 1262.69
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: and I will ask you to please support us.
  zh: 我恳请你支持我们。
- start: 1262.69
  end: 1263.79
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We need your help.
  zh: 我们需要你的帮助。
- start: 1263.93
  end: 1265.431
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Go to GiveCatholic.com
  zh: 请访问GiveCatholic.com
- start: 1265.431
  end: 1266.371
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: to give that help.
  zh: 来提供帮助。
- start: 1266.371
  end: 1270.753
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm Cy Kellett, your host, and we'll see you next time, God willing, right here on Catholic Answers Focus.
  zh: 我是主持人Cy Kellett，若神愿意，我们下次再会，就在公教答疑Focus节目。
