- start: 21.509
  end: 33.462
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, in the past conferences, I've often begun with a presentation, and this year I'm doing it a little differently.
  zh: 在过去的会议中，我常常以演讲开场，但今年我打算稍微改变一下。
- start: 33.462
  end: 36.823
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Part of it is because I've grown a little bit.
  zh: 部分原因是因为我有了一些成长。
- start: 37.343
  end: 45.246
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I had a friend recently, a speaker who, if I mentioned his name, you all would recognize.
  zh: 最近我有个朋友，一位演讲者，如果我说出他的名字，你们都会认识。
- start: 46.747
  end: 53.71
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We happened to be at a conference together, and he said, Mark, are you mad at me?
  zh: 我们碰巧一起参加一个会议，他说：「马克，你在生我的气吗？」
- start: 54.85
  end: 57.571
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I said, No, what do you mean?
  zh: 我说：「没有啊，你这是什么意思？」
- start: 57.811
  end: 62.733
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He says, Well, you have this great conference, but you haven't invited me to speak at it yet.
  zh: 他说：「你举办了这么好的会议，但你还没有邀请我来演讲。」
- start: 65.234
  end: 81.58
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I had to very creatively tell him that it has nothing to do with whether I like him or not or whether we're in good, you know, it has to do with the fact that our Deep in History conferences are kind of unique.
  zh: 我不得不很委婉地告诉他，这与我是否喜欢他或者我们关系如何无关，而是因为我们的深入历史会议有其独特之处。
- start: 83.42
  end: 97.748
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I admitted to him that if I wasn't the president of the Coming Home Network, I wouldn't be invited to speak either because I am certainly not an expert on history or especially the English Reformation.
  zh: 我向他承认，如果我不是归家网络的主席，我也不会被邀请来演讲，因为我确实不是历史专家，尤其是在英国宗教改革方面。
- start: 98.008
  end: 99.569
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I've read a lot about it.
  zh: 我读过很多相关的资料。
- start: 99.969
  end: 122.17
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In fact, as I've been thinking through my presentation tonight, I've most of the time had to kind of hold back my opinions because I've got some really strong opinions about the English Reformation that sometimes wouldn't be very charitable because of what I've read or what I've seen as an effect of the English Reformation.
  zh: 事实上，当我准备今晚的演讲时，我大多数时候都不得不克制自己的观点，因为基于我所读到的和所看到的英国宗教改革的影响，我对它有一些很强烈的看法，这些看法有时可能不太仁慈。
- start: 122.831
  end: 129.317
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The reason I'm cautious is because I know that I'm not a well-trained historian.
  zh: 我之所以谨慎，是因为我知道自己不是一个受过专业训练的历史学家。
- start: 130.918
  end: 147.101
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'In fact, it may be true that every single one of us here suffers from a common ailment, and that we—let me ask you this: how many of you here would raise your hand and believe that you have all the data there is on the English Reformation?'
  zh: 事实上，我们在座的每个人可能都有一个共同的问题，让我问问大家：在座有多少人认为自己掌握了关于英国宗教改革的所有资料？请举手。
- start: 147.101
  end: 148.162
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Could I see a hand?
  zh: 能看到有人举手吗？
- start: 148.162
  end: 165.596
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, there are a couple of experts here in the front row because very often, isn't it true that when we look back in history, that as we understand an event, we are limited to the data that we have received through our formations?
  zh: 好吧，前排确实有几位专家，但是当我们回顾历史时，我们对事件的理解不是常常受限于我们在成长过程中所接受到的资料吗？
- start: 166.854
  end: 182.961
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Whether we were taught in public school or private school or Catholic school or Protestant school, what books we read, what teachers we sat under, and what their perspective was, and maybe their slant, their spin, have all influenced us.
  zh: 无论我们是在公立学校、私立学校、公教会学校还是新教学校受教育，我们读过什么书，跟随过什么老师，他们的观点是什么，也许还有他们的倾向和角度，这些都影响着我们。
- start: 184.422
  end: 200.013
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: For that reason, I'm very excited for this weekend, and I believe that we have invited a wonderful group of speakers dealing with different aspects of this event that happened about 500 years ago.
  zh: 因此，我对这个周末感到非常兴奋，我相信我们邀请了一群优秀的演讲者，他们将探讨这个发生在大约500年前的事件的不同方面。
- start: 200.013
  end: 208.259
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, why are we doing these Deep in History conferences?
  zh: 那么，我们为什么要举办这些深入历史的会议呢？
- start: 208.259
  end: 213.523
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I thought the first thing that I would do tonight is just take some time to tell you why we are doing these.
  zh: 我想今晚首先要做的就是花点时间告诉你们我们为什么要举办这些会议。
- start: 215.135
  end: 217.477
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There are five reasons that I can think of.
  zh: 我能想到五个原因。
- start: 217.477
  end: 220.64
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The first has to do—and I have to admit it's personal.
  zh: 第一个原因是——我必须承认这是个人原因。
- start: 220.64
  end: 230.568
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You don't need to take notes on these because there won't be a test later on these five things, and they won't make a difference in your justification either whether you have them.
  zh: 你们不需要记笔记，因为之后不会对这五点进行测试，这些也不会影响你们得称义。
- start: 230.568
  end: 240.182
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But I have to admit personally that in my own spiritual journey, the discovery of history was one of those things.
  zh: 但我必须承认，在我个人的灵性旅程中，发现历史是其中重要的一环。
- start: 240.182
  end: 242.604
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That turned me home to the Catholic Church.
  zh: 这使我回归到公教会。
- start: 243.205
  end: 252.592
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I was brought up Lutheran, and I'm giving you a little bit of my history not just to recount it, like I've done many times, but because we connect.
  zh: 我是在路德宗长大的，我现在讲述一点我的历史，不仅仅是为了重复我说过很多次的故事，而是因为我们有共鸣。
- start: 252.973
  end: 254.334
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Some of us have the same experience.
  zh: 我们中有些人有着相同的经历。
- start: 254.334
  end: 266.424
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I was brought up Lutheran, went through all the hoops of Lutheranism, and had a truncated understanding of Church history that coincided with how I learned it as a young Lutheran.
  zh: 我在路德宗长大，经历了路德宗的所有环节，对教会历史的理解也很片面，这与我作为年轻路德宗信徒时学到的内容相符。
- start: 266.981
  end: 269.963
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I didn't learn very much about Church history.
  zh: 我对教会历史知之甚少。
- start: 269.963
  end: 277.547
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I knew about Martin Luther, I knew about biblical history, and that was it.
  zh: 我只知道马丁路德，知道圣经历史，仅此而已。
- start: 278.648
  end: 284.611
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I didn't know the name of a Christian between the time of the Apostles and Martin Luther.
  zh: 在使徒时代和马丁路德之间的基督徒，我一个名字都不知道。
- start: 285.572
  end: 293.756
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I may have thought of St. Francis or someone like that, possibly Augustine, but I didn't know who they were.
  zh: 我可能听说过圣方济各或类似的人物，可能还有奥古斯丁，但我并不知道他们是谁。
- start: 294.981
  end: 303.504
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Basically, that was my understanding of history, and to a certain extent, that was my understanding of history for the first 20 years of my life.
  zh: 基本上，这就是我对历史的理解，在某种程度上，这就是我人生头二十年对历史的认识。
- start: 303.504
  end: 331.998
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I had picked up a variety of things in elementary school and high school, but you realize in many ways the history that we in America learn about the English Reformation is, to a certain extent, a created history—an official history established under Elizabeth I that became the official history of Oxford and Cambridge that you had to teach and believe if you wanted to survive in England.
  zh: 我在小学和中学确实学到了一些东西，但你要明白，在很多方面，我们在美国所学到的英国宗教改革历史在某种程度上是一个被创造出来的历史——这是在伊丽莎白一世统治下确立的官方历史，后来成为牛津剑桥的官方历史，在英国如果想要生存下去，你就必须教授和相信这个版本。
- start: 332.139
  end: 338.044
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That understanding of the Reformation is what most of us here in America have inherited.
  zh: 这种对宗教改革的理解就是我们大多数美国人所继承的。
- start: 338.925
  end: 342.689
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We were colonies; it's a part of our history.
  zh: 我们曾是殖民地，这是我们历史的一部分。
- start: 344.591
  end: 358.536
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I ended up having a life-changing adult conversion in my early 20s, and from, let's say, age 21 until I was 26, when I entered seminary, a day didn't go by when I didn't study Scripture.
  zh: 我在二十多岁时经历了改变人生的成年归信，从21岁到26岁进入神学院期间，我每天都不间断地研读圣经。
- start: 358.617
  end: 366.261
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I was on fire for the Bible; I was reading the Bible every day, reading commentaries every day about the Bible.
  zh: 我对圣经充满热情，每天都在读圣经，每天都在读圣经注释。
- start: 367.642
  end: 373.305
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the thought never crossed my mind to pick up a book on history—the history of the Church.
  zh: 但我从未想过要拿起一本教会历史的书来读。
- start: 373.305
  end: 373.986
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 373.986
  end: 376.267
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because the Bible was sufficient.
  zh: 因为圣经就足够了。
- start: 376.86
  end: 379.782
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Bible was all I needed to be a better Christian.
  zh: 圣经就是我成为更好的基督徒所需要的一切。
- start: 379.782
  end: 381.983
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I needed to study the Bible.
  zh: 我需要研究圣经。
- start: 383.004
  end: 386.085
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I went away to seminary and had my eyes opened.
  zh: 我去了神学院，眼界被打开了。
- start: 386.145
  end: 388.126
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We had history classes in seminary.
  zh: 在神学院我们有历史课。
- start: 388.126
  end: 391.929
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I went to a great seminary, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary.
  zh: 我去的是一所很好的神学院，戈登康威尔神学院。
- start: 391.929
  end: 395.37
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It was an evangelical school, a little more open to history.
  zh: 这是一所福音派学校，对历史比较开放。
- start: 395.411
  end: 403.375
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We studied Church history, but even what I received in seminary about Church history was truncated.
  zh: 我们学习了教会历史，但即使在神学院所学的教会历史也是不完整的。
- start: 404.508
  end: 414.598
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I learned more about Christians during those 1500 years that existed before the Reformation, but often it was with a slant, a spin.
  zh: 我确实学到了更多关于宗教改革前1500年间的基督徒的事，但往往带有偏见和倾向性。
- start: 415.079
  end: 418.001
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They were good Christians; it's too bad for their Catholicism.
  zh: 他们是好基督徒，只可惜他们信奉大公教会。
- start: 420.004
  end: 431.846
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Often, we looked at the history of the Church in relation to the missionary movements—the great missionaries like Columba and St. Patrick and others—and we studied them almost as individual missionaries.
  zh: 我们经常从传教运动的角度来看教会历史——像科伦巴和圣帕特里克这样的伟大传教士——我们几乎把他们当作独立的传教士来研究。
- start: 431.846
  end: 438.631
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They happened to be sent by the Pope in Rome, but that was seen as a hindrance rather than a positive effect.
  zh: 他们恰好是由罗马教宗派遣的，但这被视为一种阻碍而不是积极因素。
- start: 438.631
  end: 459.758
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We looked at all these churches as independent churches trying to break away, but they didn't realize their need for breaking away until—this may have been my truncated way of understanding it—until all of a sudden, because of the Renaissance, we became smart and courageous and broke free.
  zh: 我们把这些教会都看作试图脱离的独立教会，但他们直到文艺复兴时期才意识到需要脱离——这可能是我片面的理解——突然间，因为文艺复兴，我们变得聪明和勇敢，获得了自由。
- start: 461.36
  end: 466.824
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We broke free first on the continent, and then we broke free in England.
  zh: 我们首先在欧洲大陆获得自由，然后在英国获得自由。
- start: 467.946
  end: 477.894
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The way I kind of looked at Henry VIII and that whole cadre of folk was, you know, I mean, how do you start a religion because you want a divorce?
  zh: 我看待亨利八世和那群人的方式是，你知道，我是说，怎么能因为想要离婚就创立一个宗教呢？
- start: 478.24
  end: 485.724
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the point was, to me, that was a sign of the decadence of the Church and the need for further breaking away.
  zh: 但对我来说，这正是教会堕落的标志，也是需要进一步脱离的原因。
- start: 485.724
  end: 492.788
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And what is the great sign of the freedom from all of that religious oppression in Europe?
  zh: 那么，从欧洲所有这些宗教压迫中获得自由的重大标志是什么？
- start: 493.448
  end: 497.931
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We celebrate it in a couple of weeks—Thanksgiving.
  zh: 我们几周后就要庆祝的感恩节。
- start: 498.972
  end: 504.574
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Pilgrims landed here free from religious oppression.
  zh: 清教徒来到这里，摆脱了宗教压迫。
- start: 505.275
  end: 508.818
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It was to be a new Jerusalem on a hill, free.
  zh: 这里将成为山上的新耶路撒冷，自由的耶路撒冷。
- start: 510.04
  end: 515.524
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Those of you who know New England history, how free was the religion in New England?
  zh: 那些了解新英格兰历史的人，你们知道新英格兰的宗教有多自由吗？
- start: 516.945
  end: 519.287
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In some ways, it was worse than Europe.
  zh: 在某些方面，这里比欧洲更糟。
- start: 520.929
  end: 545.965
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But I was being ordained a Congregationalist, and I love New England Congregationalism—the freedom, the independence, the autonomy—free to covenant together to follow Jesus without any of these oppressive hierarchical corruptions twisting our true following of Jesus.
  zh: 但我当时正在被按立为公理会牧师，我热爱新英格兰公理会——那种自由、独立、自主——可以自由地立约一起跟随耶稣，不受任何压迫性的等级制度腐败扭曲我们对耶稣的真实跟随。
- start: 547.705
  end: 559.908
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I was ordained a Congregationalist for about a year, but quickly became a Presbyterian because I realized that institutionalized autonomy was a mess.
  zh: 我做了大约一年的公理会牧师，但很快就成为了长老会牧师，因为我意识到制度化的自治是一团混乱。
- start: 560.828
  end: 572.639
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When I recognized that every individual independent group could decide on whatever creed they wanted, the point was there was no connection to any historical faith.
  zh: 当我认识到每个独立的群体都可以决定他们想要的任何信条时，问题在于这与任何历史信仰都没有联系。
- start: 573.82
  end: 578.104
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Every individual church could decide for itself what it needed to believe.
  zh: 每个独立的教会都可以自行决定需要相信什么。
- start: 578.104
  end: 583.789
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Often, they believed in Trinitarian views, but there are lots of Congregationalists who are Unitarians.
  zh: 他们通常相信三位一体的观点，但也有许多公理会信徒是一位论者。
- start: 584.209
  end: 589.654
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's a disconnect from history, but I never put my finger on what the problem was.
  zh: 这与历史脱节了，但我当时从未明确指出问题所在。
- start: 589.654
  end: 597.475
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I became a Presbyterian because at least in Presbyterianism, there were creeds, there was a Book of Confessions, and there was a connection with history.
  zh: 我成为了长老会教徒，因为至少在长老会中有信经，有《信条书》，与历史有联系。
- start: 598.135
  end: 603.656
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You were connected with the faith of thousands and thousands back to Jesus.
  zh: 你与千千万万追溯到耶稣的信徒的信仰相连。
- start: 605.917
  end: 608.437
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I served as a Presbyterian pastor for nine years.
  zh: 我做了九年的长老会牧师。
- start: 610.838
  end: 625.38
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The confusion was what drove me from the pastorate—confusion in the sense that the Bible alone wasn't enough because the Bible, out of its context, can be interpreted in hundreds of different ways.
  zh: 困惑驱使我离开牧职——这种困惑在于单靠圣经是不够的，因为圣经脱离其背景可以有数百种不同的解释。
- start: 626.226
  end: 629.548
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm not going to give my whole story tonight; I told that at the first conference.
  zh: 今晚我不会讲述我的全部故事，我在第一次会议上已经讲过了。
- start: 630.168
  end: 649.519
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But my decision to become Catholic was a gift because friends of mine who I'd known in seminary—good Scott Hahn, got one of them here, Jerry Manatix is here visiting us—shared the faith with me.
  zh: 但我决定成为公教会信徒是一份礼物，因为我在神学院认识的朋友们——好人斯科特·哈恩，其中一位在这里，杰里·马纳提克斯也来访问我们——与我分享了信仰。
- start: 649.72
  end: 662.692
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There were lots of reasons why I turned to the Church, but one of them that I didn't expect was the power of history—to discover the importance of history.
  zh: 我转向教会有很多原因，但其中一个我没有预料到的是历史的力量——发现历史的重要性。
- start: 662.913
  end: 677.12
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'It was the witness of these converts and then good, faithful Catholics like Carl Keating and others that helped me discover things that I had missed: the early Church Fathers, the writings of the saints, the lives of the saints.'
  zh: 是这些皈依者以及像卡尔·基廷这样忠实的公教会信徒的见证帮助我发现了我错过的东西：早期教父、圣人的著作、圣人的生平。
- start: 678.881
  end: 684.664
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The councils and the creeds, and then I read a book by Newman.
  zh: 大公会议和信经，然后我读了纽曼的一本书。
- start: 685.931
  end: 693.196
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'In the introduction of that book, there was this statement: To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.'
  zh: 在那本书的引言中有这样一句话：深入历史就会停止做新教徒。
- start: 694.737
  end: 699.42
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: A light went off because that described my journey.
  zh: 这句话让我豁然开朗，因为它描述了我的历程。
- start: 701.482
  end: 711.309
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It isn't history that saves, but it's history and understanding our faith that helps us make sure that what we are believing is true.
  zh: 拯救我们的不是历史，但正是历史和对信仰的理解帮助我们确保我们所信的是真实的。
- start: 711.95
  end: 724.267
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because it's in history that we discover the Church, the authority of the Church, the liturgy, our doctrines—so much of our faith is historical.
  zh: 因为正是在历史中我们发现了教会、教会的权威、礼仪、我们的教义——我们的信仰有太多是历史性的。
- start: 724.928
  end: 726.87
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why is our faith historical?
  zh: 为什么我们的信仰是历史性的？
- start: 726.87
  end: 731.913
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because there was a day when a historical man died on a cross.
  zh: 因为曾经有一天，一个历史上的人死在十字架上。
- start: 732.513
  end: 736.796
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There was a day when that historical man rose for our sins.
  zh: 曾经有一天，那个历史上的人为我们的罪复活了。
- start: 736.796
  end: 749.718
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We have a historical faith, and tradition didn't necessarily end with the last day the Apostles died because tradition continues; it's the history of the Church.
  zh: 我们有一个历史性的信仰，圣传并不一定在使徒去世的最后一天就结束了，因为圣传在继续；这就是教会的历史。
- start: 750.298
  end: 757.741
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In my own journey, I realized how important history was, and now, being a Catholic for 13 years, I love history.
  zh: 在我自己的旅程中，我意识到历史有多重要，现在作为一个13年的公教会信徒，我热爱历史。
- start: 758.042
  end: 762.223
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It just made me more convicted of my Catholic faith.
  zh: 这让我更加坚信我的公教会信仰。
- start: 762.284
  end: 776.903
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'The first time I gave my journey story to an audience was at a Defending the Faith conference about 13 years ago, and I ended that talk with the statement that Newman says: To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.'
  zh: 我第一次向听众讲述我的历程是在大约13年前的一次护教会议上，我用纽曼的这句话结束了演讲：深入历史就会停止做新教徒。
- start: 777.063
  end: 789.513
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'In other words, when you study history, you discover that many of the pillars—the most important things that Protestants build their faith on—don''t hold the weight of faith: sola scriptura, sola fide.'
  zh: 换句话说，当你研究历史时，你会发现许多支柱——新教徒建立信仰的最重要的东西——承担不起信仰的重量：唯独圣经，唯独信心。
- start: 790.954
  end: 794.657
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But I also twisted that statement around.
  zh: 但我也反过来说这句话。
- start: 796.378
  end: 802.768
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You see, to cease to be deep in history is to become Protestant.
  zh: 你看，停止深入历史就会成为新教徒。
- start: 803.329
  end: 818.102
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Catholics, if you forget, if you don't know your history, if you don't study and understand the battles that the Church has fought, then you will forget.
  zh: 公教会信徒们，如果你们忘记了，如果你们不了解你们的历史，如果你们不研究和理解教会打过的战役，那么你们就会忘记。
- start: 818.223
  end: 827.271
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do you realize that every Sunday in Mass when we say the Creed, you know all those little phrases we say?
  zh: 你们是否意识到，每个主日在弥撒中当我们诵读信经时，你们知道我们说的所有那些短语吗？
- start: 827.677
  end: 831.719
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: God from God, true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father.
  zh: 神所出的神，真神，受生的，而非被造的，与圣父同体。
- start: 832.42
  end: 836.963
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, some might say, What a bunch of collected words!
  zh: 我是说，有些人可能会说，这不过是一堆凑在一起的词而已！
- start: 837.524
  end: 849.131
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But you realize historically, every phrase is there for a purpose because it was fighting against an alternative, inaccurate, heretical view of Christ.
  zh: 但从历史角度来看，每个短语都有其目的，因为它们都是在对抗某种替代的、不准确的、异端的基督观。
- start: 849.972
  end: 856.136
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's why every word is significant, and you learn that in history.
  zh: 这就是为什么每个词都很重要，而这些都是从历史中学到的。
- start: 857.492
  end: 864.674
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So part of the reason for these conferences is I realized deep in my heart the importance of knowing our historic faith.
  zh: 所以举办这些会议的部分原因是我内心深处意识到了解我们历史性信仰的重要性。
- start: 865.254
  end: 868.935
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: A second reason was in this work in the Coming Home Network.
  zh: 第二个原因来自归家网络的工作。
- start: 870.055
  end: 883.818
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'We began to encounter other converts, and it seemed like every single one of them had the same message: that history was a big reason they came home to the Church, especially the discovery of the early Church Fathers.'
  zh: 我们开始遇到其他皈依者，似乎他们每个人都有同样的信息：历史是他们回归教会的一个重要原因，尤其是发现了早期教父。
- start: 883.979
  end: 896.808
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And again, the writings of the saints, the writings of the Church leaders, the councils, and the creeds, and also learning that we had some bad popes and a few bad bishops—we're all sinners.
  zh: 还有圣人的著作，教会领袖的著作，大公会议和信经，同时也了解到我们有一些不好的教宗和主教——我们都是罪人。
- start: 898.229
  end: 901.531
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It didn't turn us away; it doesn't mean the Church is less holy.
  zh: 这并没有让我们离开；这并不意味着教会不那么神圣。
- start: 901.632
  end: 903.112
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's always a need for renewal.
  zh: 总是需要更新的。
- start: 904.313
  end: 911.699
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: As we began realizing we had this common message, especially from the guests on my Journey Home program—have you seen the Journey Home program?
  zh: 当我们开始意识到我们有这个共同的信息，特别是从我的归家之旅节目的嘉宾那里——你们看过归家之旅节目吗？
- start: 911.699
  end: 913.82
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm just curious, any of you?
  zh: 我只是好奇，你们中有人看过吗？
- start: 914.721
  end: 918.984
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You don't have to clap; I'm just wondering—a marketing survey, you know.
  zh: 你们不用鼓掌，我只是在想——这是个市场调查，你们知道的。
- start: 920.386
  end: 940.061
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But if you've listened to the program, you realize week after week how many of the guests, part of their journey, was a re-reading of history, filling in the gaps, correcting misunderstandings, having a few mea culpas because of things that we said that we believed were true that were dead wrong.
  zh: 但如果你们听过这个节目，你们会意识到每周都有很多嘉宾，他们旅程的一部分就是重新阅读历史，填补空白，纠正误解，为我们曾经说过的、相信是对的但实际上完全错误的事情做出一些忏悔。
- start: 942.873
  end: 963.707
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: A third reason for the Deep in History conference is about nine or ten years ago, my staff and I were talking, and it came across our thinking that within our lifetime, we would be celebrating the 500th anniversary of the Reformation.
  zh: 举办深入历史会议的第三个原因是在大约九到十年前，我和我的员工在交谈时想到，在我们有生之年，我们将会庆祝宗教改革500周年。
- start: 964.588
  end: 966.569
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I had not heard anybody talk about that.
  zh: 我从未听到任何人谈论这件事。
- start: 966.569
  end: 969.711
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I had mentioned it to a few, and they said, Oh, that's right.
  zh: 我向一些人提起过，他们说：哦，对啊。
- start: 970.154
  end: 988.39
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I realized that on the day, October 31st, 2017, that would be the 500th anniversary of the 95 Theses, and there would probably be lots of conferences, books, and TV interviews celebrating the great Reformation.
  zh: 我意识到在2017年10月31日那天，将是九十五条论纲发表500周年，可能会有很多会议、书籍和电视采访来庆祝这次伟大的宗教改革。
- start: 989.172
  end: 994.196
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Our thought was, What are we going to do to get ready for that?
  zh: 我们的想法是，我们要如何为此做准备？
- start: 995.226
  end: 996.867
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The idea of a conference emerged.
  zh: 举办会议的想法就这样产生了。
- start: 996.867
  end: 1007.79
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We also began printing books; one of them was The Roots of the Reformation by Carl Adam, a wonderful book, a fine short history of the Reformation, primarily the Continental Reformation.
  zh: 我们也开始印刷书籍，其中之一是卡尔·亚当的《宗教改革之根源》，这是一本很棒的书，是一部精简的宗教改革史，主要关于欧洲大陆的宗教改革。
- start: 1011.952
  end: 1030.738
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: A fourth reason, besides seeing this pending need for combating the misinformation out there, was that I travel every week, right?
  zh: 第四个原因，除了看到需要对抗外界的错误信息之外，是因为我每周都要出差，对吧？
- start: 1032.038
  end: 1037.52
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Four planes a week minimum, and I'm often asked by people, Hey, what do you do for a living?
  zh: 每周至少坐四次飞机，人们经常问我：嘿，你是做什么工作的？
- start: 1039.64
  end: 1044.001
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I say, Oh, I'm the president of the Coming Home Network International.
  zh: 我说：哦，我是归家网络国际的主席。
- start: 1044.902
  end: 1045.882
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Oh really?
  zh: 哦，真的吗？
- start: 1046.222
  end: 1048.302
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do you help orphans come home?
  zh: 你是帮助孤儿回家的吗？
- start: 1048.302
  end: 1062.199
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, actually, what we do is we help Protestant ministers lose their jobs, give up their ministry, become bankrupt, and become Catholic.
  zh: 嗯，实际上，我们是帮助新教牧师失去工作、放弃事工、破产，然后成为公教会信徒。
- start: 1065.662
  end: 1067.903
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And the discussion stops real fast.
  zh: 然后谈话就很快停止了。
- start: 1070.886
  end: 1081.403
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I thought that I need a better discussion starter on the airplanes, something other than something that says the Coming Home Network.
  zh: 我想我需要一个更好的在飞机上开启谈话的话题，不要说归家网络这样的事。
- start: 1081.403
  end: 1083.625
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It just gets me into trouble every time.
  zh: 这总是让我陷入麻烦。
- start: 1084.546
  end: 1104.718
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: As I was thinking about that, the idea for our symbol came to mind—the idea of having a coffee cup, or a bookmark, or a hat, or something that had the picture, a collage of historic figures, with the phrase Deep in History, Deep in Scripture, Deep in Christ.
  zh: 当我在思考这个问题时，我想到了我们的标志——在咖啡杯、书签、帽子或其他物品上放置一幅历史人物的拼贴画，配上「深入历史，深入圣经，深入基督」这句话。
- start: 1104.718
  end: 1107.52
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It would be a wonderful discussion starter.
  zh: 这将是一个很好的谈话开端。
- start: 1107.98
  end: 1112.484
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Somebody would look over and say, Deep in History, Deep in Scripture, Deep in Christ?
  zh: 有人会看过来说：「深入历史，深入圣经，深入基督？」
- start: 1112.484
  end: 1112.884
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's interesting!
  zh: 这很有意思！
- start: 1112.884
  end: 1114.305
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What's that all about?
  zh: 这是什么意思？
- start: 1114.886
  end: 1121.69
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And then it could be a discussion about Scripture, about history, about Christ—an evangelistic outreach.
  zh: 然后就可以展开关于圣经、历史、基督的讨论——一种福音外展。
- start: 1122.371
  end: 1124.012
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I could get them around to the Coming Home Network.
  zh: 我可以慢慢引导他们了解归家网络。
- start: 1124.012
  end: 1133.119
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the point was, it again reminded me of the need for people to discover the true history of our faith.
  zh: 但重点是，这再次提醒我人们需要发现我们信仰的真实历史。
- start: 1134.181
  end: 1141.048
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: A fifth reason that led to this conference was the reading of a book, in fact, by one of our speakers tonight.
  zh: 促成这次会议的第五个原因是读了一本书，实际上是今晚我们其中一位演讲者的作品。
- start: 1141.809
  end: 1145.453
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I read a wonderful book by Joseph Pearce called Literary Converts.
  zh: 我读了约瑟·皮尔斯写的一本很棒的书，叫做《文学皈依者》。
- start: 1145.453
  end: 1146.614
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Is Joseph sitting here?
  zh: 约瑟在这里吗？
- start: 1146.614
  end: 1148.816
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I wonder if Joseph is here.
  zh: 我在想约瑟是否在这里。
- start: 1148.816
  end: 1151.619
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I want him to know that I love that book.
  zh: 我想让他知道我很喜欢那本书。
- start: 1151.619
  end: 1153.781
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Have you read that book, Literary Converts?
  zh: 你们读过《文学皈依者》这本书吗？
- start: 1154.255
  end: 1160.038
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I was in England, looking through just a regular old bookstore, and I had never heard of Joseph.
  zh: 我在英国一家普通的旧书店里翻看，那时我从未听说过约瑟。
- start: 1160.038
  end: 1163.9
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I saw this book sitting on a bookshelf; it hadn't gotten to America yet.
  zh: 我看到这本书放在书架上，当时它还没有传到美国。
- start: 1163.9
  end: 1164.801
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I picked it up.
  zh: 我拿起了这本书。
- start: 1164.801
  end: 1168.983
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I had no idea where the author was coming from; I didn't know if it would be a good book, but it looked interesting.
  zh: 我完全不知道作者的背景，也不知道这是不是一本好书，但看起来很有趣。
- start: 1169.063
  end: 1170.343
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I read this book.
  zh: 我读了这本书。
- start: 1170.704
  end: 1179.489
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This book traces all the great convert writers of England and America for the last 150 years.
  zh: 这本书追溯了过去150年来英国和美国所有伟大的皈依作家。
- start: 1179.489
  end: 1188.301
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's a tremendous book, and as I read the book, what it made me realize is these are great men and women of faith that are forgotten.
  zh: 这是一本了不起的书，当我读这本书时，它让我意识到这些伟大的信仰男女已经被遗忘了。
- start: 1189.462
  end: 1196.145
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They had great influence in their writings, but to a majority of people, they are now forgotten.
  zh: 他们的著作曾有巨大影响力，但对大多数人来说，他们现在已被遗忘。
- start: 1196.905
  end: 1203.888
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The idea for a conference to bring them back was another impetus behind our conference.
  zh: 举办会议来重新让人们认识他们的想法是我们举办这次会议的另一个推动力。
- start: 1204.609
  end: 1206.47
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So we began the conferences.
  zh: 于是我们开始举办这些会议。
- start: 1207.31
  end: 1209.351
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We've done four; this is our fourth.
  zh: 我们已经举办了四次，这是第四次。
- start: 1209.935
  end: 1226.101
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The first one—and this is a bit of an infomercial—if you weren't at the conferences, we've got a great batch of tapes out there because the talks, those of you that have been here, I hope you affirm that the talks of the last four years have been superb.
  zh: 第一次会议——这有点像广告——如果你们没有参加过会议，我们那里有一批很棒的录音带，因为这些演讲，在座的各位，我希望你们能认同过去四年的演讲都是极好的。
- start: 1226.501
  end: 1229.302
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They have been excellent on all aspects of the thing.
  zh: 它们在各个方面都很出色。
- start: 1230.062
  end: 1233.044
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The first year, we had a variety of speakers.
  zh: 第一年，我们有各种各样的演讲者。
- start: 1233.044
  end: 1243.654
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Joseph Pearce was there talking on Literary Converts, along with a number of our board members: Father Ryland, Paul Thigpen, Kenneth Howell, and a variety of speakers.'
  zh: 约瑟·皮尔斯在那里谈论文学皈依者，还有我们的一些董事会成员：赖兰神父、保罗·蒂格彭、肯尼斯·豪威尔，以及其他各种演讲者。
- start: 1243.654
  end: 1246.395
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I can't remember all of them, but they spoke on history in general.
  zh: 我记不得所有人，但他们都在谈论历史的一般性问题。
- start: 1246.395
  end: 1249.496
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The importance of history was kind of our first step into it.
  zh: 历史的重要性是我们的第一步。
- start: 1249.677
  end: 1263.702
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The second year, we went through what we considered the most common need for most moderns, and that is to discover the early Church Fathers—the beauty of the early Church Fathers and how Catholic they were.
  zh: 第二年，我们探讨了我们认为现代人最普遍的需求，那就是发现早期教父——早期教父的美好以及他们多么符合公教会的传统。
- start: 1264.144
  end: 1266.946
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then last year, we took our first step into the Reformation.
  zh: 然后去年，我们开始涉足宗教改革。
- start: 1266.946
  end: 1269.048
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We focused on the Continental Reformation in Germany.
  zh: 我们关注德国的欧陆宗教改革。
- start: 1269.048
  end: 1275.813
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We began with what were the roots, what caused the Reformation, and then we looked at the different reformers and the Catholic response.
  zh: 我们从根源开始，探讨是什么导致了宗教改革，然后我们研究了不同的改革者和公教会的回应。
- start: 1275.813
  end: 1284.278
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It was a good set of topics, and now this year, we've jumped the pond, and we're in England—the English Reformation.
  zh: 这是一系列很好的主题，现在这一年，我们跨过了大西洋，来到英国——英国宗教改革。
- start: 1284.599
  end: 1293.145
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, I mentioned a little earlier that all these talks are important, and I want you to hear the flow so you understand where we're going.
  zh: 刚才我提到所有这些演讲都很重要，我想让你们听听脉络，这样你们就能明白我们要去向何方。
- start: 1293.956
  end: 1299.02
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When I'm done gabbing, Dwight Longenecker will speak.
  zh: 当我说完话后，德怀特·朗格内克将会发言。
- start: 1299.08
  end: 1302.282
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, Dwight is a convert to the Church.
  zh: 德怀特是一位皈依教会的信徒。
- start: 1302.863
  end: 1313.852
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He was originally an American pastor, a student who went to England, went to Oxford, studied, and became an Anglican minister.
  zh: 他原本是一位美国牧师，一位去英国的学生，在牛津学习，后来成为英国圣公会牧师。
- start: 1313.852
  end: 1317.074
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I think he was on the Isle of Wight, wasn't that the Isle of Wight?
  zh: 我想他在怀特岛，是不是怀特岛？
- start: 1317.255
  end: 1320.057
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'll get a little bit more into that during the official introduction.
  zh: 在正式介绍时我会详细说明。
- start: 1321.118
  end: 1329.633
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He came into the Church and has this great perspective—a kind of American-English slant to things.
  zh: 他加入了教会，有着很好的视角——一种美英结合的观点。
- start: 1329.633
  end: 1339.56
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'He is going to give an overall history: what was the Church like in England from the Romans all the way up to the Reformation?'
  zh: 他将给出一个总体的历史：从罗马时期一直到宗教改革，英国的教会是什么样子的？
- start: 1340.542
  end: 1345.485
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What was the Church like, and was it in need of renewal?
  zh: 教会是什么样子的，它是否需要更新？
- start: 1347.547
  end: 1349.649
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then we'll have Monsignor Frank Lane.
  zh: 然后我们将请蒙席方兰恩。
- start: 1349.649
  end: 1351.73
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How many of you have heard of Monsignor Lane before?
  zh: 你们中有多少人以前听说过蒙席兰恩？
- start: 1351.89
  end: 1356.625
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He's a local priest, a great preacher, a great speaker—a great gift.
  zh: 他是一位本地神父，一位出色的讲道者，一位优秀的演说家——一份珍贵的礼物。
- start: 1356.625
  end: 1358.485
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Every year, we're always glad he comes.
  zh: 每年我们都很高兴他能来。
- start: 1358.485
  end: 1368.927
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He is going to look directly at the schism, the influences from Henry VIII to Elizabeth I. All right, what happened?
  zh: 他将直接探讨分裂，从亨利八世到伊丽莎白一世的影响。好，到底发生了什么？
- start: 1370.388
  end: 1376.369
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That'll be tonight, and then we'll have a social—kick back, relax.
  zh: 那是今晚的内容，之后我们会有社交时间——放松一下。
- start: 1376.949
  end: 1383.11
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Tomorrow, now Jamie Bogle isn't going to be here.
  zh: 明天，杰米·博格尔不会来了。
- start: 1384.713
  end: 1395.717
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I should have Joanna tell you the details, but he couldn't come because he's in Rome attending the wedding of one of the royal family members who's Catholic.
  zh: 我应该让乔安娜告诉你们详情，但他不能来是因为他在罗马参加一位天主教皇室成员的婚礼。
- start: 1397.197
  end: 1397.858
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Very interesting!
  zh: 很有趣！
- start: 1397.858
  end: 1400.459
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I want Joanna to talk more about that; it's a very important event.
  zh: 我想让乔安娜多谈谈这件事，这是一个很重要的事件。
- start: 1400.459
  end: 1410.022
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So Joanna has his notes, knows the subject well, and she's going to begin us in the morning on the attempted return of Mary Tudor.
  zh: 所以乔安娜有他的笔记，很了解这个主题，她明天早上将为我们讲述玛丽都铎的回归尝试。
- start: 1410.222
  end: 1413.523
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's another name for her, but I'm not going to mention it, all right?
  zh: 她还有另一个名字，但我就不提了，好吗？
- start: 1414.486
  end: 1427.154
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Again, depending on what history you learned, we're going to hear about the attempt and the response to what Henry did tomorrow from Joanna.
  zh: 再次说明，根据你们所学的历史，我们明天将从乔安娜那里听到关于这次尝试以及对亨利所作所为的回应。
- start: 1427.154
  end: 1436.12
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then Joseph is going to deal with—I'm not sure if it's pronounced recusants or recusants, but either way, recusants.
  zh: 然后约瑟将讨论——我不确定是发音为recusants还是recusants，但不管怎样，就是那些拒绝参加英国国教礼拜的天主教徒。
- start: 1437.261
  end: 1443.565
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In other words, there were Catholics all through the Reformation that had to hide.
  zh: 换句话说，在整个宗教改革期间都有不得不躲藏的天主教徒。
- start: 1444.454
  end: 1457.878
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: For protection, for survival, to keep from losing their property, and we're going to hear about these secret lives and those who did all kinds of things to defend the Catholic faith.
  zh: 为了保护，为了生存，为了不失去财产，我们将听到这些秘密生活的故事，以及那些为捍卫天主教信仰做出各种努力的人。
- start: 1459.058
  end: 1465.1
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then after lunch, Paul Thigpen is going to talk about those who lost their faith—the martyrs.
  zh: 然后午饭后，保罗·蒂格彭将讲述那些为信仰献身的人——殉道者。
- start: 1466.52
  end: 1477.733
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's a sad story when we see how these good men and women of faith were massacred, and we'll see that tomorrow.
  zh: 当我们看到这些虔诚的信徒是如何被屠杀的，这是一个悲伤的故事，我们明天会看到这些。
- start: 1478.774
  end: 1494.583
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Scott Hahn will be here in the afternoon to deal with defenders of the faith—two shining lights in the midst of this otherwise difficult time: Thomas More and John Fisher.'
  zh: 斯科特·哈恩将在下午讲述信仰的捍卫者——在这个艰难时期中的两盏明灯：托马斯·莫尔和约翰·费舍尔。
- start: 1495.183
  end: 1496.284
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Sorry, John Fisher.
  zh: 抱歉，约翰·费舍尔。
- start: 1497.585
  end: 1511.592
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then in the evening, after dinner, Father Charles Connor, who you also recognize from EWTN, is going to look at the English Counter-Reformation—how the Church responded to the problems but also to the attacks.
  zh: 然后在晚上，晚餐后，你们在永恒圣言电视网也认识的查尔斯·康纳神父将探讨英国的反宗教改革——教会如何应对问题和攻击。
- start: 1512.253
  end: 1521.897
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Then Joanna Bogle will return to finish the evening with the aftermath: what has happened since the Reformation to today?'
  zh: 然后乔安娜·博格尔将回来结束晚上的活动，讲述后果：从宗教改革到今天发生了什么？
- start: 1523.158
  end: 1528.62
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How has it affected our lives, the Church, the Church in England?
  zh: 它如何影响了我们的生活，教会，英国的教会？
- start: 1529.821
  end: 1544.341
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And then on Sunday morning, Father Ray Ryland, who himself is an Anglican clergy convert who's now a priest, will talk about his own looking back at the Church of England—the Church that he left when he became Catholic.
  zh: 然后在周日早上，雷·赖兰神父，他本人是一位圣公会神职人员皈依者，现在是一位神父，他将回顾英国圣公会——他成为天主教徒时离开的教会。
- start: 1544.341
  end: 1547.763
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then we'll have a panel discussion to deal with all your questions.
  zh: 然后我们将有一个专题讨论来回答你们所有的问题。
- start: 1548.524
  end: 1549.465
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's the flow.
  zh: 这就是整个流程。
- start: 1549.465
  end: 1553.187
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do you see the importance of being there for everything?
  zh: 你们看到全程参与的重要性了吗？
- start: 1553.528
  end: 1587.251
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Now, I''d like to set your thinking for the weekend as you listen to the speakers, and I''m going to borrow something from the talk I gave last year because there''s a very interesting psalm that fits the topic: Psalm 113. It goes like this: If the foundations are destroyed, what are the faithful to do?'
  zh: 现在，我想为你们设定这个周末听演讲时的思路，我要借用去年演讲中的一些内容，因为有一篇很有意思的诗篇很适合这个主题：诗篇113篇。是这样说的：如果根基毁坏，义人还能做什么？
- start: 1588.832
  end: 1592.934
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If the foundations are destroyed, what are the faithful to do?
  zh: 如果根基毁坏，义人还能做什么？
- start: 1594.676
  end: 1596.677
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's a fascinating question.
  zh: 这是一个引人深思的问题。
- start: 1598.278
  end: 1605.0
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And in a sense, that little psalm addresses the Reformation as well as it addresses today.
  zh: 从某种意义上说，这篇简短的诗篇既适用于宗教改革时期，也适用于今天。
- start: 1606.001
  end: 1613.164
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'There are four questions: Number one, what are the foundations, the essentials?'
  zh: 有四个问题：第一，什么是根基，什么是根本？
- start: 1614.845
  end: 1621.587
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Number two, are they destroyed or just in bad shape, in need of renewal?
  zh: 第二，它们是被摧毁了还是仅仅状况不佳，需要更新？
- start: 1622.188
  end: 1628.893
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Number three, who are the righteous?
  zh: 第三，谁是义人？
- start: 1628.893
  end: 1632.596
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Who are the ones that have a responsibility to do something about it?
  zh: 谁是那些有责任采取行动的人？
- start: 1632.596
  end: 1636.198
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And then fourthly, what ought they to do?
  zh: 第四，他们应该做什么？
- start: 1636.579
  end: 1640.281
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'As we look back, we ask the question: what did they do?'
  zh: 当我们回顾历史时，我们要问：他们做了什么？
- start: 1642.223
  end: 1648.928
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Did what they activated or instituted, was it right?
  zh: 他们所采取或建立的行动是否正确？
- start: 1648.928
  end: 1656.879
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Right in relationship to their analysis as to whether the foundations were destroyed?
  zh: 这与他们对根基是否被摧毁的分析是否相符？
- start: 1656.88
  end: 1663.083
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm going to give the same ten points that I gave last year quickly.
  zh: 我要快速重复去年提到的十点。
- start: 1664.104
  end: 1666.725
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I provided a list of ten foundation stones.
  zh: 我提供了一个包含十个基石的清单。
- start: 1668.727
  end: 1692.862
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's a long list of other things, but these are ten things that I believe we would all agree that a Christian, let's say in the year 1000 in England, the year 1200 in England, the year 1300 in England, up to the Reformation, all of them would agree that these ten foundation stones should be expected of the Church.
  zh: 还有很多其他的事项，但这十件事我认为我们都会同意，无论是英国1000年的基督徒，1200年的基督徒，1300年的基督徒，直到宗教改革时期的基督徒，他们都会认为教会应该具备这十个基石。
- start: 1693.623
  end: 1695.744
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They assumed that this was true.
  zh: 他们认为这是理所当然的。
- start: 1695.745
  end: 1701.401
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There may be more; there may be a few of these that you might differ with me on, but think about these ten things.
  zh: 可能还有更多；这其中可能有几点你会和我有不同意见，但请思考这十件事。
- start: 1701.401
  end: 1712.249
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The first five are structural, dealing with our faith; the rest of them have more to deal with the internal evidence of the faith.
  zh: 前五点是结构性的，涉及我们的信仰；其余的更多地涉及信仰的内在证据。
- start: 1713.571
  end: 1724.339
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The first thing that all Christians of Christendom—almost all, I should say—would presume is that Jesus intended there to be how many churches?
  zh: 基督教世界的所有基督徒——我应该说是几乎所有人——都会认为耶稣打算建立多少个教会？
- start: 1725.397
  end: 1726.037
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: One.
  zh: 一个。
- start: 1726.458
  end: 1727.778
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There was one Church.
  zh: 只有一个教会。
- start: 1728.299
  end: 1732.641
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Of course, there had been schisms; there had been some breaking away.
  zh: 当然，曾经有过分裂；有过一些脱离。
- start: 1732.641
  end: 1746.327
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the understanding was different than what we have today because we live in a soup of most people believing that there are a bazillion churches, if there was ever intended to be a Church at all.
  zh: 但当时的理解与我们今天的不同，因为我们生活在一个大多数人都相信有无数教会的环境中，如果说曾经打算建立教会的话。
- start: 1746.84
  end: 1751.961
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But then the unanimous decision was that there was intended to be one Church.
  zh: 但当时一致的认识是应该只有一个教会。
- start: 1752.341
  end: 1755.882
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Number two, the authority of Peter.
  zh: 第二点，彼得的权威。
- start: 1756.902
  end: 1758.883
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There were times when there was confusion.
  zh: 有时确实存在混乱。
- start: 1759.263
  end: 1763.544
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There were times when that pope wasn't in Rome; he was in Avignon.
  zh: 有时教宗不在罗马；他在阿维尼翁。
- start: 1763.724
  end: 1766.905
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There was a time when there were two candidates arguing over who were the popes.
  zh: 曾经有一段时期两个候选人争论谁是教宗。
- start: 1766.905
  end: 1768.825
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There was a time when there were three candidates.
  zh: 还有一段时期有三个候选人。
- start: 1768.965
  end: 1778.328
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But there was an understanding that the pope was the head of the Church established by Christ—that was a given.
  zh: 但人们都理解教宗是基督所建立的教会的首领——这是既定的事实。
- start: 1779.769
  end: 1784.151
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There were certainly kings that battled against the pope, but that was a given.
  zh: 当然有国王与教宗对抗，但这个事实是确定的。
- start: 1784.151
  end: 1798.697
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Number three, underneath that authority, there were bishops—the apostolic succession of those men who carried on the mission of Christ and the Apostles.
  zh: 第三点，在这个权威之下，有主教们——那些继承使徒传承并延续基督和使徒使命的人。
- start: 1798.797
  end: 1803.459
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'That was understood: the authority of the bishops under Peter.'
  zh: 这是公认的：主教在彼得权威之下的权柄。
- start: 1803.779
  end: 1815.671
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And fourthly, underneath those bishops were priests who carried the responsibility and the work of the bishops and the pope in the one Church.
  zh: 第四点，在这些主教之下是神父们，他们在唯一的教会中承担着主教和教宗的责任和工作。
- start: 1817.073
  end: 1821.716
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Would you agree, at least to this point, that those were probably foundation stones among Christendom?
  zh: 你们是否同意，至少到目前为止，这些可能是基督教世界的基石？
- start: 1821.776
  end: 1823.698
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They would all agree with that.
  zh: 他们都会同意这一点。
- start: 1824.278
  end: 1844.695
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Number five is that there was a set of doctrines, creeds, that were to be believed, which had been established by this hierarchy at councils under the leadership of the Magisterium in union with the Bishop of Rome.
  zh: 第五点是有一套应当相信的教义和信经，这些是由教会等级制度在与罗马主教联合的训导权领导下在大公会议上确立的。
- start: 1845.896
  end: 1853.561
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now again, there were maybe a few dissenting voices, but the majority would have agreed to those as foundation stones.
  zh: 再次说明，可能有一些不同的声音，但大多数人都会同意这些是基石。
- start: 1855.043
  end: 1859.887
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The second set of five now deals with the condition of those people in the hierarchy.
  zh: 第二组五点现在讨论教会等级制度中人员的状况。
- start: 1859.887
  end: 1869.646
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Number six, there is an assumption that those in the position—whether it was pope, bishop, or priest—were to be servants.
  zh: 第六点，人们认为那些在位者——无论是教宗、主教还是神父——都应该是仆人。
- start: 1870.407
  end: 1874.051
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's what Jesus taught; that's what the Church taught.
  zh: 这是耶稣所教导的；这是教会所教导的。
- start: 1874.051
  end: 1878.916
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They were to model service, servant leadership.
  zh: 他们应该以服务为榜样，实行仆人式领导。
- start: 1878.916
  end: 1888.851
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They weren't to lord it over; they weren't to have ambition; they weren't to seek control and power and position.
  zh: 他们不应该作主辖制人；不应该有野心；不应该追求控制、权力和地位。
- start: 1889.051
  end: 1894.454
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Everybody knew that's not what Jesus taught; he taught servant leadership.
  zh: 每个人都知道这不是耶稣所教导的；他教导的是仆人式领导。
- start: 1894.454
  end: 1902.659
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Number seven, Jesus also taught that these leaders, as well as everyone in the Church, were called to be holy.
  zh: 第七点，耶稣还教导这些领袖，以及教会中的每个人，都被召要成为圣洁的。
- start: 1903.4
  end: 1906.141
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Perfect as your heavenly Father was perfect.
  zh: 要完全，像你们的天父是完全的一样。
- start: 1906.141
  end: 1911.264
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Holiness, seeking to model Christ, was understood.
  zh: 圣洁，追求效法基督，这是大家都理解的。
- start: 1912.793
  end: 1924.926
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There may not have been good catechesis; there may not have been very good priestly formation, but it was an understood expectation of holiness.
  zh: 可能没有很好的教理讲授；可能没有很好的司铎培养，但圣洁的期望是公认的。
- start: 1924.926
  end: 1930.331
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Number eight, to fine-tune that holiness, there was an expectation of these three things.
  zh: 第八点，为了完善那种圣洁，人们期望这三件事。
- start: 1930.331
  end: 1931.692
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Have you heard of these before?
  zh: 你们以前听说过这些吗？
- start: 1931.692
  end: 1934.635
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Poverty, chastity, and obedience.
  zh: 贫穷、贞洁和服从。
- start: 1935.211
  end: 1943.313
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: At different levels—whether you were religious, a priest, bishop, or pope—all were expected to live by those three things.
  zh: 在不同的层次上——无论你是修士、神父、主教还是教宗——都期望遵守这三件事。
- start: 1943.313
  end: 1962.497
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Poverty: the goal of being a bishop, or a pope, or a priest was not to be money; it was not to be greedy; it was not to have women on the side, children on the side, and families.'
  zh: 贫穷：做主教、教宗或神父的目标不是为了钱；不是为了贪婪；不是为了在外有女人、有孩子和家庭。
- start: 1962.497
  end: 1964.098
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It was an understood thing.
  zh: 这是一个公认的事情。
- start: 1964.098
  end: 1976.332
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Chastity and obedience: the structure recognized the obedience that Christ had established in his apostolate, that they were to carry that.'
  zh: 贞洁和服从：这个体系认可基督在其使徒职分中所建立的服从，他们要继承这一点。
- start: 1977.293
  end: 1988.361
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: A ninth understanding foundation would have been, for want of a better word, internal conversion.
  zh: 第九个基本认识是，用一个更好的词来说，内在的皈依。
- start: 1989.366
  end: 1996.831
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In other words, the Christian life was not merely externals, but that it involved conversion of heart.
  zh: 换句话说，基督徒的生活不仅仅是外在的，而是涉及心灵的皈依。
- start: 1997.952
  end: 2000.434
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Scripture taught that; Jesus taught that.
  zh: 圣经教导这个；耶稣教导这个。
- start: 2001.315
  end: 2005.838
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It was to be on the inside as well as the outside—that was to be an understanding.
  zh: 它应该既在内在也在外在——这是一个基本认识。
- start: 2006.158
  end: 2013.904
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: One last thing as a foundation stone—this doesn't quite fit with the rest, but there was a belief in blessings and curses.
  zh: 最后一个基石——这与其他的不太相符，但人们相信祝福和诅咒。
- start: 2015.685
  end: 2026.872
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In other words, if we lead a good life, somehow God will shine, and if things aren't going so well, we must have done something wrong.
  zh: 换句话说，如果我们过着好的生活，神会以某种方式显现，如果事情进展不顺利，我们一定做错了什么。
- start: 2027.133
  end: 2030.014
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There wasn't necessarily a direct connection like you see in the Old Testament.
  zh: 这不一定像旧约中看到的那样有直接的联系。
- start: 2030.014
  end: 2038.956
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But for example, when the plague hit Europe and half the population died, one of the questions was, What did we do wrong?
  zh: 但比如说，当瘟疫袭击欧洲，一半人口死亡时，人们问的问题之一是，我们做错了什么？
- start: 2039.196
  end: 2041.417
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There was a sense that something was going wrong in the Church.
  zh: 人们感觉教会出了什么问题。
- start: 2042.978
  end: 2048.0789999999997
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And when blessings came, they looked for reasons; there was a direct connection.
  zh: 当祝福来临时，他们寻找原因；他们认为这之间有直接联系。
- start: 2049.4
  end: 2058.684
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Now, if we just at least assume those foundation stones, my question is: what were their conditions in the years leading up to the English Reformation?'
  zh: 现在，如果我们至少假设这些基石存在，我的问题是：在英国宗教改革前的那些年里，这些基石的状况如何？
- start: 2059.804
  end: 2074.35
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How did the people of England, the hierarchy of England, the royalty of England, understand one Church, one pope, the authority of bishops, and the ministry of priests?
  zh: 英国的人民、教会等级制度、王室是如何理解一个教会、一个教宗、主教的权威和神父的职事的？
- start: 2075.35
  end: 2077.931
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So far, we're doing pretty well in England.
  zh: 到目前为止，英国做得相当好。
- start: 2077.931
  end: 2079.552
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Dwight will talk about that.
  zh: 德怀特会谈到这一点。
- start: 2082.594
  end: 2092.876
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I don't think there were really any questions in England before the Reformation on one Church, one pope, the authority of bishops, and the ministry of priests.
  zh: 我认为在宗教改革之前的英国，对于一个教会、一个教宗、主教的权威和神父的职事并没有什么质疑。
- start: 2094.456
  end: 2096.716
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's when you start getting down the list, though.
  zh: 不过，当你继续往下看这个清单时。
- start: 2097.977
  end: 2102.137
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Doctrine was probably fine too, though there were some challenges on certain issues.
  zh: 教义可能也没什么问题，尽管在某些问题上有一些挑战。
- start: 2102.898
  end: 2117.815
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But when we get to the issue of holiness, chastity, poverty, and obedience, we start seeing problems.
  zh: 但当我们谈到圣洁、贞洁、贫穷和服从的问题时，我们开始看到问题。
- start: 2118.716
  end: 2130.702
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: One of the reasons I didn't want to get into details about myself and leave it to the other speakers about the English Reformation is that I have a bit more sympathy for the Continental Reformation than I do for the English Reformation.
  zh: 我不想详细谈论自己，而是把英国宗教改革的话题留给其他演讲者的原因之一是，我对欧洲大陆的宗教改革比对英国的宗教改革更有同情心。
- start: 2133.104
  end: 2137.726
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, there were some things that Luther attacked that needed attacking.
  zh: 你知道，路德攻击的一些事情确实需要被攻击。
- start: 2140.073
  end: 2144.015
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Many of the things Luther was addressing, the Church recognized needed renewal.
  zh: 路德所提出的许多问题，教会也认识到需要更新。
- start: 2144.756
  end: 2151.98
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We know that in England, it was a bit of a different story.
  zh: 我们知道在英国，这是一个有点不同的故事。
- start: 2153.761
  end: 2166.529
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, our reason for this conference is not so that we can, with haughty spirit, look back and consider ourselves more holy than those folks back then, right?
  zh: 现在，我们举办这次会议的原因，并不是为了让我们以傲慢的心态回顾历史，认为自己比那时的人更圣洁，对吧？
- start: 2166.529
  end: 2169.31
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, it isn't here just to point fingers.
  zh: 我的意思是，这不是为了指责别人。
- start: 2170.836
  end: 2175.557
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That old preacher when I was a kid said, When you point a finger, you've got three points back at yourself.
  zh: 我小时候那位老传道人说过，当你指着别人的时候，有三根手指是指向自己的。
- start: 2177.718
  end: 2184.68
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What can we learn for ourselves when we study the English Reformation?
  zh: 当我们研究英国宗教改革时，我们能为自己学到什么？
- start: 2185.34
  end: 2187.201
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What can we learn about our faith?
  zh: 我们能学到关于我们信仰的什么？
- start: 2187.201
  end: 2193.602
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What can we learn about the condition of faith in the world from studying the English Reformation?
  zh: 从研究英国宗教改革中，我们能学到什么关于世界信仰状况的事？
- start: 2193.602
  end: 2205.925
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What can we learn when we look around us at the Church and come to the conclusion that the foundations aren't doing very well, and we decide we're going to do something about it?
  zh: 当我们环顾教会，得出根基并不稳固的结论，并决定要采取行动时，我们能学到什么？
- start: 2206.967
  end: 2208.808
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The question is, what do we do?
  zh: 问题是，我们该做什么？
- start: 2209.849
  end: 2214.813
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because people have decided that in the past and sometimes made some awful mistakes.
  zh: 因为人们在过去也做出过这样的决定，有时犯下了可怕的错误。
- start: 2216.815
  end: 2217.856
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What can we do?
  zh: 我们能做什么？
- start: 2217.856
  end: 2231.099
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What can we learn from our study of the Reformation to make sure that the Church we leave our children is in better shape than we found it?
  zh: 从研究宗教改革中我们能学到什么，以确保我们留给子孙的教会比我们所发现的状况更好？
- start: 2231.099
  end: 2238.463
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm not challenging the holiness of the Church, but you know why I know for a fact that the Church is a bit sinful?
  zh: 我并不是在质疑教会的圣洁性，但你知道为什么我确实知道教会有一些罪性吗？
- start: 2239.544
  end: 2241.325
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because I'm here, you know?
  zh: 因为我在这里，你知道吗？
- start: 2242.126
  end: 2242.926
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 2243.327
  end: 2246.849
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And we, in our life, have a responsibility.
  zh: 而我们在生命中都有一份责任。
- start: 2246.849
  end: 2253.354
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We can't say it's the job of Pope Benedict—God bless him; we have a great pope—and our great bishops.
  zh: 我们不能说这是本笃教宗的工作——愿天主保佑他；我们有一位伟大的教宗——和我们伟大的主教们的工作。
- start: 2253.354
  end: 2256.816
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We had our bishop here tonight, Bishop Campbell; he is a holy man.
  zh: 今晚我们的坎贝尔主教在这里；他是一位圣洁的人。
- start: 2257.375
  end: 2264.697
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We can't say it's their job or the priest's job because we've got three fingers pointing back at each of us.
  zh: 我们不能说这是他们的工作或神父的工作，因为我们有三根手指指向我们每个人自己。
- start: 2265.377
  end: 2271.679
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How can you and I begin authentic renewal here?
  zh: 你我如何能在这里开始真正的更新？
- start: 2272.479
  end: 2301.913
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'To me, that''s the biggest message of our conference: it''s how each of us can grow closer to our Lord in all those ten foundations—holiness, chastity, poverty, obedience, servant leadership, loyalty to the Church, to our Holy Father, to the bishops, to the priests, to our doctrines—so that together we are witnesses to our Church.'
  zh: 对我来说，这是我们会议最重要的信息：就是我们每个人如何能在所有这十个基石上更接近我们的主——圣洁、贞洁、贫穷、服从、仆人式领导、对教会的忠诚、对我们的圣父、对主教、对神父、对我们教义的忠诚——这样我们才能一起成为教会的见证人。
