- start: 0.329
  end: 1.71
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Welcome back to Shameless Popery!
  zh: 欢迎回到《无耻教皇党》！
- start: 1.71
  end: 11.333
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm Joe Heschmeyer, and today I want to explore seven of what I think are the most common misconceptions and myths about the Catholic Church and what the Church believes.
  zh: 我是乔·赫施迈尔，今天我想探讨七个我认为最常见的关于公教会及其信仰的误解和谬见。
- start: 11.573
  end: 18.415
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: These are going to be some misconceptions that you may have heard before, ones you may in fact believe or may have believed.
  zh: 这些都是你可能听说过的一些误解，你现在可能相信或曾经相信过的观点。
- start: 18.915
  end: 24.017
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I think it's important, whether you're Catholic or not Catholic, to know that these misconceptions are false.
  zh: 我认为，无论你是不是天主教徒，了解这些误解是错误的都很重要。
- start: 24.017
  end: 34.719
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, after all, if you're going to accept or reject Catholicism, you should at least accept or reject it based on what it actually is, what it actually teaches, and not on a fictional version.
  zh: 毕竟，如果你要接受或拒绝天主教，至少应该基于它的真实面貌和实际教导，而不是基于一个虚构的版本。
- start: 34.719
  end: 39.84
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It would be a shame to make a decision that important based on bad information.
  zh: 基于错误信息做出如此重要的决定实在是太可惜了。
- start: 40.18
  end: 47.121
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, I want to look at misconceptions coming both from non-believers, like atheists, but also fellow Christians, like Protestants.
  zh: 所以，我想探讨来自非信徒如无神论者，以及来自其他基督徒如新教徒的误解。
- start: 47.742
  end: 52.282
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Number one on that list has got to be the idea that the Pope is always right.
  zh: 这份清单上的第一个误解必定是认为教宗永远都是对的。
- start: 52.583
  end: 65.425
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This is partly our fault; we have a doctrine called papal infallibility, and if all you know is the title, it's easy to imagine that this means the Pope is never wrong about anything whatsoever.
  zh: 这部分是我们的责任；我们有一个叫做教宗无误的教义，如果你只知道这个名字，很容易想象这意味着教宗在任何事情上都永远不会错。
- start: 66.145
  end: 70.106
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If that was what we believed, it'd be super easy to disprove Catholicism.
  zh: 如果这真是我们所信的，那驳倒天主教就太容易了。
- start: 70.106
  end: 70.926
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You could say, Aha!
  zh: 你可以说：「啊哈！」
- start: 70.926
  end: 73.787
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Look at this time the Pope was wrong about something.
  zh: 看，这次教宗在某事上犯错了。
- start: 74.252
  end: 78.954
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In fact, this is kind of a long-standing joke among Catholics.
  zh: 事实上，这在天主教徒中间一直是个笑话。
- start: 79.134
  end: 89.239
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: For instance, in the early 20th century or mid-20th century novel Brideshead Revisited by the Catholic author Evelyn Waugh, there's the character of Rex Mottram.
  zh: 比如说，在公教会作家伊夫林·沃的二十世纪初或中期小说《故园风雨后》中，有一个叫雷克斯·莫特拉姆的角色。
- start: 89.379
  end: 97.643
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Rex is a Protestant who is in the process of maybe converting to Catholicism in order to marry his Catholic fiancée, Julia.
  zh: 雷克斯是一个新教徒，为了娶他的公教会基督徒未婚妻朱莉娅，他正在考虑皈依天主教。
- start: 98.364
  end: 109.112
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Along the way, he's meeting with the priest, and the kind of running gag is that Rex has a very confused understanding of anything about Catholic theology.
  zh: 在这个过程中，他与神父会面，贯穿始终的笑点是雷克斯对公教会神学的理解非常混乱。
- start: 109.112
  end: 114.933
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He's ready to say yes to anything, but he has a very funny kind of misconception about Catholicism.
  zh: 他准备对任何事情都说是，但他对天主教有一种非常有趣的误解。
- start: 116.214
  end: 123.496
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: At one point, the priest is pressing him on the question of papal infallibility, and I always am reminded of this scene.
  zh: 有一次，神父在教宗无误的问题上追问他，我总是想起这一幕。
- start: 123.496
  end: 130.317
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm always tickled by it, and I'm going to share it in the hopes that maybe you'll find it as funny and illuminating as I do.
  zh: 这总是让我觉得很有趣，我想分享它，希望你也能像我一样觉得它既有趣又富有启发性。
- start: 130.558
  end: 136.418
  speaker: SPEAKER_02
  en: Supposing the Pope looked up and saw a cloud and said, It's going to rain.
  zh: 假设教宗抬头看见一朵云，说道：「要下雨了。」
- start: 137.118
  end: 138.458
  speaker: SPEAKER_02
  en: Was that ever going to happen?
  zh: 那会发生吗？
- start: 138.458
  end: 144.1
  speaker: SPEAKER_02
  en: Oh yes, Father, I suppose it didn't. I suppose there was no rain.
  zh: 「哦是的，神父，我猜没有下。我猜没有下雨。」
- start: 151.582
  end: 154.642
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: I suppose it'd be sort of raining spiritually.
  zh: 「我猜可能是在灵性层面上下雨了。」
- start: 155.043
  end: 157.223
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Only we were too sinful to see it.
  zh: 「只是我们太有罪了，看不见而已。」
- start: 160.663
  end: 163.525
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Like I said, I find that clip hilarious every time.
  zh: 就像我说的，每次看到这段我都觉得很好笑。
- start: 163.625
  end: 172.651
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But okay, if that's not what it is, if papal infallibility isn't the belief that the Pope could go out and be a weather forecaster with 100% accuracy, what is it?
  zh: 但好吧，如果不是这样的话，如果教宗无误并不是相信教宗能出去做一个百分之百准确的天气预报员，那它到底是什么？
- start: 172.651
  end: 176.713
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, it's part of this broader concept of infallibility.
  zh: 这是无误性这个更广泛概念的一部分。
- start: 177.214
  end: 188.495
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The idea was described by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which is in charge of helping to explain Catholic theology and Catholic doctrine, back in 1973, by starting with the idea that God Himself is infallible.
  zh: 信理圣部（负责解释公教会神学和教义的机构）在1973年解释这个概念时，首先指出神自身是无误的。
- start: 188.495
  end: 193.276
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, God is literally infallible; He could be the perfect weather forecaster.
  zh: 神确实是无误的；他可以成为完美的天气预报员。
- start: 194.896
  end: 204.798
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But He has chosen to bestow upon His people, the Church, a certain shared infallibility, which, notice the language here, is restricted to matters of faith and morals.
  zh: 但他选择赐予他的子民，即教会，一定程度的共享无误性，请注意这里的用词，这仅限于信仰和道德事务。
- start: 205.458
  end: 209.499
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, something like the weather—that's not a question of faith or morals.
  zh: 所以，像天气这样的事情——这不是信仰或道德的问题。
- start: 209.499
  end: 210.959
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, okay, that's not it.
  zh: 所以，好吧，不是那样的。
- start: 211.9
  end: 218.391
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And notice also that this is something the people of God share in.
  zh: 还要注意的是，这是神的子民共同分享的。
- start: 218.391
  end: 233.177
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, if all Christians just know that X is good and Y is bad, this is true and that’s false, we believe the Holy Spirit has led the people of God into that, whether there's been an official papal decree or not.
  zh: 所以，如果所有基督徒都知道X是好的而Y是坏的，这是真的而那是假的，我们相信圣灵引导神的子民达到这种认识，无论是否有正式的教宗谕令。
- start: 233.418
  end: 250.161
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If everybody knows Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are Gospels that we should accept as inspired Scripture, it doesn't matter whether the Church has come out with an official pronouncement or not, because one level of infallibility works with the people of God, Christians kind of acting collectively.
  zh: 如果每个人都知道马太、马可、路加和约翰福音是我们应当接受的默示圣经，那么教会是否发布正式声明并不重要，因为这种层面的无误性是通过神的子民，即基督徒群体共同行动而实现的。
- start: 250.522
  end: 261.687
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, it's hard to always pin down kind of where that is, but you should notice already that the position of infallibility includes what we might call people infallibility, not just papal infallibility.
  zh: 现在，要准确指出这种无误性的具体所在确实很难，但你应该已经注意到，无误性的立场包括我们可以称之为信众无误性的内容，而不仅仅是教宗无误性。
- start: 262.007
  end: 265.849
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And it's clearly not about everything; we're not saying everyone is right about everything.
  zh: 而且这显然不是关于所有事情的；我们并不是说每个人在所有事情上都是对的。
- start: 265.849
  end: 266.909
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That wouldn't make any sense.
  zh: 那样说是没有道理的。
- start: 266.909
  end: 282.155
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We disagree on all sorts of things, but the point is when we aren't disagreeing, when Christians are able to stand shoulder to shoulder and say, This thing is true, that is a very strong indication that it is true because God has led us into that truth, not our own human reasoning.
  zh: 我们在各种事情上都有分歧，但关键是当我们没有分歧时，当基督徒能够肩并肩地说「这是真理」时，这就是一个很强的迹象表明它确实是真理，因为是神引导我们认识这个真理，而不是我们自己的人性推理。
- start: 283.016
  end: 285.817
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What does that look like for the Pope in particular?
  zh: 对教宗来说具体是什么样的呢？
- start: 286.318
  end: 290.601
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, we're going to talk about the Magisterium, called the teaching authority of the Church.
  zh: 我们要谈论的是教会训导权，也就是教会的教导权威。
- start: 291.882
  end: 298.459
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Jesus Christ shares in the governance of the Church by His own will; He didn't have to do that with certain teachers.
  zh: 耶稣基督按照自己的旨意参与教会的治理；他本不必通过某些教师来做这件事。
- start: 298.459
  end: 321.284
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'There are clearly teachers within Christianity, and so when the bishops, we''ll get to the Pope in a second, when the bishops scattered around the world are teaching a common doctrine in union with the Pope, the successor of Peter, and they present a doctrine to be held irrevocably, notice this: it''s not that they think a certain thing is true, but that they insist this is a thing you have to believe.'
  zh: 基督教中显然有教师的存在，所以当主教们——我们稍后会谈到教宗——当分布在世界各地的主教们与伯多禄的继承人教宗团结一致地教导共同的教义，并将某个教义作为不可改变的信仰提出时，请注意：这不是他们认为某事是真的，而是他们坚持这是你必须相信的事。
- start: 321.524
  end: 324.345
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It is presented as a doctrine to be held.
  zh: 这是作为必须持守的教义而提出的。
- start: 324.895
  end: 327.397
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We believe that this is infallible.
  zh: 我们相信这是无误的。
- start: 327.397
  end: 333.82
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, notice it's not just everything on any topic; it's not even just everything on faith and morals.
  zh: 所以，注意这不是任何话题上的所有事情；甚至不是信仰和道德方面的所有事情。
- start: 334.181
  end: 344.527
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's things on faith and morals that are presented, and not just presented, but are presented as doctrines—specifically, doctrines that we have to hold.
  zh: 是关于信仰和道德的事情被提出，而且不仅仅是被提出，而是作为教义被提出——特别是我们必须持守的教义。
- start: 346.628
  end: 359.196
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: As we're going to see in a moment here, a proper understanding of infallibility, which again, whether you agree with it or disagree with it, isn't that it's some kind of special oracle that the Pope or the bishops have.
  zh: 正如我们马上要看到的，对无误性的正确理解，无论你同意与否，都不是说教宗或主教们拥有某种特殊的神谕。
- start: 359.337
  end: 365.639
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's instead a sort of divine protection from the Pope, a divine protection from the bishops.
  zh: 相反，这是一种给予教宗的神圣保护，给予主教们的神圣保护。
- start: 365.639
  end: 367.42
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'll explain what I mean by that in a minute.
  zh: 我马上会解释这是什么意思。
- start: 367.9
  end: 375.803
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But that's the bishops now, and you can also see this in ecumenical councils or with the Pope.
  zh: 这是关于主教们的情况，你也可以在大公会议或教宗身上看到这一点。
- start: 375.803
  end: 387.101
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, in ecumenical councils, when an ecumenical council, again with the Pope, defines a doctrine to be held, that is a very clear instance of the Church acting infallibly.
  zh: 所以，在大公会议上，当一个大公会议在教宗的参与下确立一个必须持守的教义时，这就是教会行使无误性的一个非常明确的例子。
- start: 387.581
  end: 411.131
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Likewise, when the Roman Pontiff, again the Pope, speaks ex cathedra—that means from the chair, not literally a chair, just from his authority—when he's exercising the office of pastor and teacher of all Christians, and through his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine, notice not just any doctrine, but a doctrine concerning faith and morals to be held by the universal Church.
  zh: 同样，当罗马教宗，也就是教宗，以主座身份发言时——这里的主座不是指实际的椅子，而是指他的权威——当他行使作为全体基督徒的牧者和教师的职责，并通过他的最高宗徒权威，确立一个教义时，注意不是任何教义，而是关于普世教会必须持守的信仰和道德的教义。
- start: 411.294
  end: 416.316
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, if those criteria are met, then we're dealing with infallibility.
  zh: 所以，如果符合这些条件，那么我们就是在处理无误性的问题。
- start: 416.416
  end: 421.018
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Now, specifically, you should notice something: there''s a common thread here.'
  zh: 现在，具体来说，你应该注意到一点：这里有一个共同的主线。
- start: 421.018
  end: 432.103
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This emphasis on defining a doctrine to be held, or putting forward a doctrine to be held, doesn't have to be an actual definition, but it's something that you have to hold as a Christian.
  zh: 这种对确立必须持守的教义，或提出必须持守的教义的强调，不一定是一个实际的定义，但这是作为基督徒你必须持守的东西。
- start: 432.703
  end: 435.424
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, why would those things be infallible?
  zh: 那么，为什么这些事情是无误的呢？
- start: 435.424
  end: 441.571
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Well, we can put the case maybe a little bit this way: Jesus tells us a couple of important things.'
  zh: 我们可以这样来说明：耶稣告诉我们几件重要的事。
- start: 441.571
  end: 447.256
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Number one, that He is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through Him.
  zh: 第一，他是道路、真理、生命，若不藉着他，没有人能到父那里去。
- start: 447.256
  end: 453.06
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's John 14:6. So, we have to hold to the truth, but we also have to hold to unity.
  zh: 这是约翰福音14:6。所以，我们必须持守真理，但我们也必须持守合一。
- start: 453.16
  end: 460.025
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Jesus, at the Last Supper, the same place He tells us He's the way, the truth, and the life, also prays for His future followers.
  zh: 耶稣在最后的晚餐上，在他告诉我们他是道路、真理、生命的同一个地方，也为他未来的跟随者祈祷。
- start: 460.225
  end: 465.949
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He says, I pray not for these only, but also for those who believe in Me through their word, that is us.
  zh: 他说，我不但为这些人祈求，也为那些因他们的话信我的人祈求，那就是我们。
- start: 465.949
  end: 468.591
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, what is His prayer for you and me?
  zh: 那么，他为你我的祈祷是什么？
- start: 468.803
  end: 474.006
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That we will all be one, even as He and the Father are one.
  zh: 愿我们都合而为一，像他与父原为一。
- start: 474.226
  end: 475.007
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 475.667
  end: 488.355
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That they may believe in us, that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me. So, notice He’s saying we have to hold to unity, and it’s vital for the success of the Gospel that we do hold to unity.
  zh: 叫世人可以信你差了我来。所以注意，他说我们必须持守合一，为了福音的广传，持守合一是至关重要的。
- start: 489.036
  end: 494.859
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Imagine how much more successful Christianity would be if we weren’t constantly fighting with one another.
  zh: 想象一下，如果我们不是经常彼此争斗，基督教会有多么兴旺。
- start: 495.139
  end: 499.896
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'So, we have to hold these two things, according to Jesus: truth and unity.'
  zh: 所以，按照耶稣的话，我们必须持守这两样：真理和合一。
- start: 499.896
  end: 504.399
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, there’s more than that, but those two are the ones that are going to be really important for us.
  zh: 当然还有更多，但这两样对我们来说特别重要。
- start: 504.399
  end: 507.301
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We can even put that kind of in the opposite direction.
  zh: 我们甚至可以从反面来看这个问题。
- start: 507.441
  end: 509.883
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you reject truth, what happens?
  zh: 如果你拒绝真理，会发生什么？
- start: 509.883
  end: 520.11
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, 2 Peter 2—St. Peter warns us about heretics who introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
  zh: 彼得后书第二章——圣彼得警告我们那些引进败坏异端的人，连买他们的主他们也不承认，自取速速的灭亡。
- start: 520.391
  end: 526.615
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, if you reject truth for the sake of error, you are risking at least spiritual damnation.
  zh: 所以，如果你为了错谬而拒绝真理，你至少是在冒着灵性沉沦的危险。
- start: 527.731
  end: 532.833
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But likewise, if you reject the unity of the Church, you’re also risking spiritual damnation.
  zh: 同样，如果你拒绝教会的合一，你也在冒着灵性沉沦的危险。
- start: 532.833
  end: 543.416
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: St. Paul, in his letter to the Galatians, talks about the works of the flesh and lists them, including things like enmity, strife, dissension, and party spirit.
  zh: 圣保禄在给加拉太人的书信中谈到肉体的事，列举了仇恨、争竞、纷争和结党等。
- start: 543.416
  end: 548.597
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In other words, Christians who pit themselves against other Christians, Christians who break away from the unity of the Church.
  zh: 换句话说，就是基督徒与基督徒对立，基督徒背离教会合一。
- start: 549.378
  end: 553.699
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He warns that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.
  zh: 他警告说行这样事的人必不能承受神的国。
- start: 553.809
  end: 556.651
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That’s an even clearer warning that that’s damnable.
  zh: 这是一个更清楚的警告，表明这是该受咒诅的。
- start: 556.651
  end: 560.593
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, you may not be a heretic; you may not be a schismatic.
  zh: 所以，你可能不是异端；你可能不是分裂者。
- start: 561.794
  end: 576.202
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'So, here’s the kicker: if your teacher in the Church, your bishop, your Pope, requires you to believe a certain doctrine in order to be a Christian, what are you going to do?'
  zh: 关键在这里：如果你在教会中的导师，你的主教，你的教宗，要求你相信某个教义才能成为基督徒，你会怎么做？
- start: 576.382
  end: 591.7
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, if that doctrine is erroneous, if the Pope says, By my infallible authority, I’m declaring this thing to be true, and it’s false, then every one of us has to say, Okay, well, I’m going to accept this false doctrine and become a heretic, or I’m going to break away from the Church and become a schismatic.
  zh: 如果那个教义是错误的，如果教宗说，凭我的无误权威，我宣布这事为真，而它实际是假的，那么我们每个人都必须说，好吧，要么我接受这个错误的教义成为异端，要么我脱离教会成为分裂者。
- start: 591.7
  end: 594.662
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And Jesus told us we couldn’t do either of those things.
  zh: 而耶稣告诉我们这两样都不能做。
- start: 595.362
  end: 601.526
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And remember, in John 17, when He’s praying for His future followers, He knows the future; He’s God.
  zh: 记住，在约翰福音17章，当他为未来的跟随者祈祷时，他知道未来；他是神。
- start: 602.427
  end: 607.93
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When He’s praying for us and telling us to remain one, He knows about corruption in the Church.
  zh: 当他为我们祈祷并告诉我们要保持合一时，他知道教会中会有腐败。
- start: 607.93
  end: 617.094
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He knows about unworthy bishops and popes, and He knows all of that stuff, and He doesn’t say, Okay, unless you really disagree, then go form your own Church.
  zh: 他知道会有不配的主教和教宗，他知道这一切，他没有说，好吧，除非你真的不同意，那就去建立你自己的教会。
- start: 617.094
  end: 618.414
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He doesn’t say that at all.
  zh: 他完全没有这样说。
- start: 618.934
  end: 623.736
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, that’s why we believe in infallibility, because it’s the only way to harmonize the biblical evidence.
  zh: 所以，这就是为什么我们相信无误性，因为这是协调圣经证据的唯一方式。
- start: 624.177
  end: 631.56
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Otherwise, you have this tension between truth and unity, and I think any Protestant who’s being honest will tell you they’ve experienced that tension.
  zh: 否则，你就会在真理和合一之间有这种张力，我想任何诚实的新教徒都会告诉你他们经历过这种张力。
- start: 631.58
  end: 636.162
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do we break apart, or do we stay one and just kind of fudge the differences?
  zh: 我们是要分裂，还是要保持合一而模糊这些分歧？
- start: 636.628
  end: 637.349
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Neither of those.
  zh: 两者都不是。
- start: 637.349
  end: 640.671
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You don’t choose truth over unity; you don’t choose unity over truth.
  zh: 你不能为了真理放弃合一；也不能为了合一放弃真理。
- start: 640.671
  end: 643.093
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You choose unity in the truth.
  zh: 你要选择在真理中合一。
- start: 643.093
  end: 645.075
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That’s the actual biblical message.
  zh: 这才是圣经真正的信息。
- start: 645.596
  end: 650.099
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Papal infallibility, and more broadly the infallibility of the Church, makes sense of that.
  zh: 教宗的无误性，以及更广泛的教会无误性，让这一切变得合理。
- start: 650.099
  end: 657.525
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But notice again, it doesn’t touch on everything; it touches on those things that are put forward as binding upon us as Christians.
  zh: 但请再次注意，它不涉及所有事情；它只涉及那些作为基督徒必须遵守的事情。
- start: 657.796
  end: 667.261
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because if it’s just an offhand comment the Pope makes, if he’s doing an interview and he says something kind of weird, you can say, I think that’s vague, confusing; maybe I disagree with it.
  zh: 因为如果只是教宗随口说的话，如果他在接受采访时说了一些奇怪的话，你可以说，我觉得那很模糊，令人困惑；也许我不同意。
- start: 667.781
  end: 670.022
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I’m not out of the Church for that.
  zh: 我不会因此就离开教会。
- start: 670.022
  end: 684.99
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But if I’m required to believe in a thing, then either I’ve been put into an impossible catch-22 of having to choose heresy or schism, or that thing is true, and the reason I’m being required to believe it is because it’s a true part of the Gospel.
  zh: 但如果我被要求相信某事，那么要么我被置于一个不可能的两难境地，必须在异端和分裂之间选择，要么那事是真的，而我被要求相信它是因为它是福音真理的一部分。
- start: 685.09
  end: 690.084
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, that’s the first thing I wanted to clear up, because I think that’s a very common one.
  zh: 好的，这是我想要澄清的第一件事，因为我认为这是一个很常见的误解。
- start: 690.365
  end: 695.809
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We’re going to shift gears pretty dramatically here because the second myth is this idea that the Catholic Church is anti-sex.
  zh: 我们现在要大转弯了，因为第二个谬见是认为天主教会反对性。
- start: 695.809
  end: 700.472
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We hate sex, we hate pleasure, we hate anything like happiness, right?
  zh: 我们讨厌性，讨厌快乐，讨厌任何类似幸福的东西，对吧？
- start: 701.053
  end: 705.276
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, there are a few things you should know that make you kind of question that belief.
  zh: 好吧，有几件事你应该知道，这些会让你质疑这种看法。
- start: 705.276
  end: 721.049
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Number one, I mentioned this actually in last week’s episode, but Catholics—traditional Catholics anyway, like the Latin Mass Catholics—will say they have the highest birth rate of any major group: higher than Orthodox Jews, higher than Mormons, higher than Muslims.'
  zh: 第一，我在上周的节目中实际上提到过，天主教徒——至少传统的天主教徒，比如拉丁弥撒的天主教徒——他们说他们的生育率比任何主要群体都高：比正统犹太教徒高，比摩门教徒高，比穆斯林高。
- start: 721.59
  end: 729.396
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Devout, practicing, especially traditional Catholics have a tremendously high birth rate.
  zh: 虔诚的、实践的，特别是传统的天主教徒有着极高的生育率。
- start: 729.696
  end: 736.71
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, I don't know if you know how that happens, but it pretty clearly is tied to sex.
  zh: 现在，我不知道你是否知道这是怎么发生的，但这显然与性有关。
- start: 737.011
  end: 740.672
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You can't simultaneously say, Why do you Catholics hate sex?
  zh: 你不能一边说，为什么你们天主教徒讨厌性？
- start: 740.672
  end: 741.972
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: and have all these kids.
  zh: 一边又有这么多孩子。
- start: 741.972
  end: 744.013
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Those two things don't really make sense together.
  zh: 这两件事放在一起根本说不通。
- start: 744.533
  end: 759.917
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'But more broadly, we just want to say this: sex is important, but it''s important not just because it''s an emotionally influential or physically pleasurable experience, but also because this is a way that new life is created.'
  zh: 但更广泛地说，我们要说的是：性很重要，但它的重要性不仅仅在于它是一种情感上有影响力或身体上愉悦的体验，还因为这是创造新生命的方式。
- start: 761.747
  end: 768.091
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, it's not enough that you just be thinking about yourself and your libido, or even about the person that maybe you love or maybe you lust for.
  zh: 所以，你不能只想着自己和自己的性欲，或者只想着你可能爱或渴望的那个人。
- start: 768.272
  end: 771.994
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You also want to think about the fact that there may be children brought into the world through this.
  zh: 你还要想到可能会通过这种方式把孩子带到这个世界上来。
- start: 771.994
  end: 781.54
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It makes sense for a healthy approach to sex to be one that treats it very seriously—not because it's evil, but because it's powerful.
  zh: 对性采取严肃态度的健康方式是有道理的——不是因为它邪恶，而是因为它强大。
- start: 782.501
  end: 786.595
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, I want to say, what about the connection then to happiness?
  zh: 现在，我想说，那么它与幸福的关系又如何呢？
- start: 786.595
  end: 788.676
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do we just hate sex and happiness?
  zh: 我们真的就是讨厌性和幸福吗？
- start: 788.676
  end: 800.323
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It’s funny because there’s actually a good amount of data on this point, and it turns out if you listen to the Catholic Church, you will be happier, and in fact, you will have a better sex life.
  zh: 有趣的是，在这一点上实际上有大量数据，事实证明如果你听从天主教会的教导，你会更幸福，实际上，你会有更好的性生活。
- start: 800.323
  end: 805.506
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I know people don’t often say that, but it is true, and we have data from this.
  zh: 我知道人们不经常这么说，但这是真的，我们有数据支持。
- start: 805.506
  end: 816.889
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: For instance, in the Journal of Sex Research from last year, 2023, there’s an article called Religiosity, Sex Frequency, and Sexual Satisfaction in Britain.
  zh: 例如，在去年2023年的《性研究杂志》上，有一篇文章叫做《英国的宗教性、性频率和性满意度》。
- start: 817.269
  end: 822.592
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Britain has better data, but you could extrapolate this to other countries as well.
  zh: 英国有更好的数据，但你也可以把这推广到其他国家。
- start: 822.613
  end: 832.119
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Also significantly, Britain is a little bit less—well, a good deal less—Christian in terms of devotional practice than the United States.
  zh: 更重要的是，就信仰实践而言，英国比美国要少一点——好吧，少很多——基督徒。
- start: 832.119
  end: 843.322
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It also doesn't have the same kind of puritanical heritage, so you would expect that everything that you're going to hear here would be, if anything, more true in the U.S. example.
  zh: 它也没有同样的清教徒传统，所以你可以预期，你在这里听到的一切，在美国的例子中只会更加明显。
- start: 843.322
  end: 847.684
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And you’ll see that a little better when I get into some of the data, some of the research.
  zh: 当我讲到一些数据和研究时，你会更好地理解这一点。
- start: 847.684
  end: 848.645
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, what did they find?
  zh: 那么，他们发现了什么？
- start: 848.645
  end: 851.066
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, the researchers had two hypotheses.
  zh: 研究人员有两个假设。
- start: 851.066
  end: 856.468
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Number one, they suspected that religious people would have less sex outside of marriage.
  zh: 第一，他们怀疑有宗教信仰的人在婚姻之外的性行为会更少。
- start: 856.589
  end: 857.729
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Turns out that's true.
  zh: 结果证明这是对的。
- start: 858.37
  end: 865.733
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Number two, they hypothesized that religious people would actually be happier with their sex lives, and it turned out that's also true.
  zh: 第二，他们假设有宗教信仰的人实际上会对他们的性生活更满意，结果证明这也是对的。
- start: 865.914
  end: 876.227
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, as they put it, in accordance with our first hypothesis, among single, non-cohabiting individuals, the more religious had less frequent sex compared to their less religious peers.
  zh: 所以，正如他们所说，根据第一个假设，在单身、非同居的人群中，越是虔诚的人与较少虔诚的同龄人相比，性行为频率越低。
- start: 876.227
  end: 877.628
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yep, that makes sense.
  zh: 是的，这很合理。
- start: 877.949
  end: 883.612
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you think it's wrong to fornicate, you're less likely to fornicate than someone who's like, I'm great with fornication.
  zh: 如果你认为淫乱是错误的，你就不太可能像那些觉得淫乱没问题的人那样去做。
- start: 884.493
  end: 893.58
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the more surprising thing is, despite this, those who attributed greater importance to religion and religious beliefs reported higher satisfaction.
  zh: 但更令人惊讶的是，尽管如此，那些更重视宗教和宗教信仰的人报告说他们的满意度更高。
- start: 894.833
  end: 903.256
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Notably, this includes both happy married people but also people who aren't having sex and are content with that.
  zh: 值得注意的是，这既包括幸福的已婚人士，也包括那些没有性生活但对此感到满意的人。
- start: 903.576
  end: 907.358
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: These are single individuals, but they're not incels; they're not involuntarily celibate.
  zh: 这些都是单身人士，但他们不是非自愿独身者；他们不是被迫独身的。
- start: 907.358
  end: 910.139
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They're voluntarily celibate, at least for the time being.
  zh: 他们是自愿独身的，至少目前是这样。
- start: 910.479
  end: 911.9
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Those people are also happier.
  zh: 这些人也更幸福。
- start: 911.9
  end: 922.452
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, married or unmarried people who were striving to practice the Christian sexual ethic were happier, and this was especially true among women.
  zh: 所以，努力实践基督教性伦理的已婚或未婚者都更幸福，这在女性中尤其明显。
- start: 922.452
  end: 934.999
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But we find that the flip side to this is that higher approval of casual sex or sex without love was also found to be negatively associated with sexual satisfaction for both men and women.
  zh: 但我们发现，与此相反的是，对随意性行为或无爱性行为的高度认可与男性和女性的性满意度都呈负相关。
- start: 935.82
  end: 944.424
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'So, what we can say is this: we live in a culture that, broadly speaking, treats sex as something trivial, something we just do casually.'
  zh: 所以，我们可以说：我们生活在一个普遍将性视为琐事，视为随意之事的文化中。
- start: 945.515
  end: 957.418
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You can watch almost any movie, almost any show, and get a strong sense of that because that's the kind of entertaining, salacious content that keeps eyes on the screen and keeps moviegoer dollars, right?
  zh: 你几乎可以从任何电影，任何节目中都能强烈感受到这一点，因为这种娱乐性的、耸人听闻的内容能吸引观众的眼球，能赚取观众的钱，对吧？
- start: 957.418
  end: 959.438
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Like, this is sex sells.
  zh: 就像是，性能卖钱。
- start: 960.238
  end: 963.099
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But that message that sells isn't true.
  zh: 但这个能卖钱的信息并不是真的。
- start: 963.799
  end: 972.821
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The idea that you can go out and just live a life of pursuing casual sex and be happy, we can say by the numbers isn't true.
  zh: 那种认为你可以出去过追求随意性行为的生活并获得幸福的想法，从数据上来说是不真实的。
- start: 973.427
  end: 981.033
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And again, you can't just blame that on puritan guilt because this is Great Britain, which has much less of any kind of puritanical influence.
  zh: 再说一次，你不能把这归咎于清教徒的罪恶感，因为这是英国，这里几乎没有什么清教徒的影响。
- start: 981.634
  end: 987.719
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Rather, it's like, No, no, the secular gospel of free sex is just actually unfulfilling.
  zh: 相反，这就像是，不，不，世俗的自由性福音实际上是无法带来满足的。
- start: 988.08
  end: 998.749
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, this is actually part of a broader trend, which is that religion is tied not to people being miserable, but actually being much happier than their non-religious peers.
  zh: 现在，这实际上是一个更广泛趋势的一部分，就是宗教与人的痛苦无关，相反，有宗教信仰的人比没有宗教信仰的同龄人更幸福。
- start: 998.749
  end: 1020.557
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'So, Pew Research looked at the U.S. and several other countries back in 2019, and here are some of the findings: they said more than a third of actively religious U.S. adults—36%—described themselves as very happy, compared with just a quarter of religiously inactive or religiously unaffiliated Americans.'
  zh: 皮尤研究中心在2019年对美国和其他几个国家进行了研究，以下是一些发现：他们说超过三分之一的美国活跃信徒——36%——形容自己非常幸福，相比之下只有四分之一的宗教不活跃者或无宗教信仰的美国人如此表示。
- start: 1021.258
  end: 1023.159
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That’s a pretty big gap.
  zh: 这是一个相当大的差距。
- start: 1023.76
  end: 1035.694
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, if you think about going from 25% up to 36%, you’re looking at an increase of 11%. From 25%, 11 more than that is almost half as many more.
  zh: 所以，如果你想从25%上升到36%，你看到的是11%的增长。从25%来说，多出的11%几乎是增加了一半。
- start: 1036.435
  end: 1044.297
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Maybe that’s confusing math, but if you think about it in a group, well, anyway, you get the stats, right?
  zh: 也许这个数学有点令人困惑，但如果你从群体角度思考，不管怎样，你明白这些统计数据的意思，对吧？
- start: 1044.297
  end: 1045.638
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You get the way these numbers work.
  zh: 你理解这些数字是怎么回事。
- start: 1045.638
  end: 1053.94
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I don't want to give you more confusing numbers, but the point there is there's a statistically significant difference showing that religious people are happier.
  zh: 我不想给你更多令人困惑的数字，但重点是有统计学上的显著差异表明有宗教信仰的人更幸福。
- start: 1053.94
  end: 1068.753
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, you might say, Okay, that's just the U.S. No, across 25 other countries for which data is available, actively religious people report being happier than the unaffiliated by a statistically significant margin in almost half of the countries.
  zh: 现在，你可能会说，好吧，那只是美国的情况。不，在有数据的其他25个国家中，在将近一半的国家里，活跃的宗教信徒报告说他们比无宗教信仰者更幸福，而且差距具有统计学意义。
- start: 1068.753
  end: 1073.995
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That’s not just more; that’s a big enough gap that they can say it’s statistically significant.
  zh: 这不仅仅是更多而已；这个差距大到足以说明它在统计学上是显著的。
- start: 1073.995
  end: 1080.477
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, a big gap, and they’re happier than inactive religious adults in nine of the 25 countries.
  zh: 所以，这是一个很大的差距，而且在25个国家中的9个国家里，他们比不活跃的宗教信徒更幸福。
- start: 1081.858
  end: 1090.34
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You can actually see the numbers there on the screen if you want to take a look at them, and you’ll find this is just an across-the-board sort of pattern.
  zh: 如果你想看看的话，你实际上可以在屏幕上看到这些数字，你会发现这是一个普遍的模式。
- start: 1090.726
  end: 1100.432
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It gets more interesting because they say the gaps are some of the places you don’t see the same size kind of gaps, but you do see a pretty common pattern emerging.
  zh: 更有趣的是，他们说在一些地方你看不到相同大小的差距，但你确实看到了一个相当普遍的模式在显现。
- start: 1100.972
  end: 1103.694
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In some cases, the gaps are really striking.
  zh: 在某些情况下，这些差距真的很惊人。
- start: 1103.794
  end: 1116.201
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: For instance, in Australia, 45% of actively religious adults say that they are very happy, compared to only 32% of inactive and 33% of unaffiliated religious people.
  zh: 例如，在澳大利亚，45%的活跃宗教信徒说他们非常幸福，相比之下只有32%的不活跃信徒和33%的无宗教信仰者这样说。
- start: 1116.302
  end: 1127.113
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, there’s a marked happiness boost by being actively religious, which is totally contrary to the whole Church hates pleasure, Church hates happiness sort of thing.
  zh: 所以，积极信教能明显提升幸福感，这完全与教会憎恨快乐、憎恨幸福之类的说法相反。
- start: 1127.214
  end: 1134.137
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, the Church is showing you a way to be happier and be more pleased, including being more pleased with your sex life.
  zh: 不，教会是在向你展示一条通向更幸福、更满足的道路，包括对性生活更满意。
- start: 1135.818
  end: 1143.882
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Strikingly, also, there’s not one country in all the countries they looked at in which actively religious people are significantly less happy than others.
  zh: 显著的是，在他们研究的所有国家中，没有一个国家的活跃宗教信徒明显比其他人更不幸福。
- start: 1143.882
  end: 1147.323
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Again, significantly meaning like statistically significant margins of error.
  zh: 再说一次，显著是指具有统计学意义的误差幅度。
- start: 1148.348
  end: 1150.849
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In many countries, they acknowledge there’s not much of a gap.
  zh: 他们承认在许多国家差距并不大。
- start: 1150.849
  end: 1162.792
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'So, you have basically two scenarios: in some places, there’s not a clear happiness gap; in other places, including the U.S. and Australia, there are these pretty big happiness gaps.'
  zh: 所以，基本上有两种情况：在一些地方，幸福感差距不明显；在其他地方，包括美国和澳大利亚，存在相当大的幸福感差距。
- start: 1162.792
  end: 1164.952
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There’s never an unhappiness gap.
  zh: 从来没有不幸福的差距。
- start: 1164.952
  end: 1171.654
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There’s never a place where being a devout Christian means you’re more miserable than your secular peer.
  zh: 从来没有一个地方显示虔诚的基督徒比世俗的同龄人更痛苦。
- start: 1171.954
  end: 1188.01
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You’re either about the same level of happy or you’re much happier, and that includes in the U.S. So, this myth that the Church hates sexual pleasure or hates sex or hates happiness is absurdly false and is quite contrary to the data.
  zh: 你要么和他们一样幸福，要么比他们更幸福，美国也是如此。所以，说教会憎恨性快感或憎恨性或憎恨幸福的说法荒谬地错误，而且与数据完全相反。
- start: 1188.01
  end: 1192.552
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Speaking of data, what about this idea that the Church is anti-science?
  zh: 说到数据，那么教会反科学的说法又如何呢？
- start: 1193.252
  end: 1204.697
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'If you’ve run in any kind of secular or especially like atheist or new atheist kind of crowds, there’s a good chance you’ve heard this: Oh, you know, these unreasonable dogmatists who are just driven by faith and they hate reason.'
  zh: 如果你接触过任何世俗群体，特别是无神论者或新无神论者群体，你很可能听过这种说法：哦，你知道，这些只被信仰驱使的不讲理的教条主义者，他们憎恨理性。
- start: 1205.273
  end: 1212.415
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And chances are, if you press people on this, they’ll point to exactly one concrete example from Catholics.
  zh: 很可能，如果你追问他们，他们会指出天主教的一个具体例子。
- start: 1212.415
  end: 1222.219
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'I mean, they might have some of like evangelical Protestants who don''t like evolution or something like this, but usually they''ll point to one example: Galileo.'
  zh: 我是说，他们可能会提到一些像不接受进化论的福音派新教徒之类的例子，但通常他们会指向一个例子：伽利略。
- start: 1223.639
  end: 1229.301
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I'm not even going to get into all of the details of the Galileo trial or why it's really controversial or complicated.
  zh: 我甚至不打算深入讨论伽利略审判的所有细节，或为什么它如此具有争议性和复杂性。
- start: 1229.301
  end: 1239.912
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I just want to say it's absurd to base a critique of a 2,000-year-old institution with a billion people on the alleged maltreatment of one scientist.
  zh: 我只想说，用对一个科学家的所谓虐待来批评一个拥有十亿信徒、有着两千年历史的机构是荒谬的。
- start: 1240.913
  end: 1252.838
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: To go from that to saying, Oh, the Church is anti-science, seems to be pretty obviously a demonstrably absurd generalization to draw from one example.
  zh: 从那一件事就说，哦，教会反科学，这显然是从一个例子中得出的一个明显荒谬的概括。
- start: 1253.379
  end: 1258.981
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If your sample size is one, you can't draw much from that.
  zh: 如果你的样本量只有一个，你不能从中得出太多结论。
- start: 1258.981
  end: 1261.162
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Let's broaden the sample size.
  zh: 让我们扩大样本量。
- start: 1261.86
  end: 1271.668
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Right now, just while we stay in the realm of astronomy for a second, 33 Jesuits have lunar craters named after them.
  zh: 就现在，当我们暂时停留在天文学领域时，有33位耶稣会士的名字被用来命名月球陨石坑。
- start: 1271.668
  end: 1276.632
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That’s just the Jesuits, just the Society of Jesus, and they have lunar craters named after them.
  zh: 这仅仅是耶稣会士，仅仅是耶稣会，而他们的名字被用来命名月球陨石坑。
- start: 1276.632
  end: 1277.093
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 1277.093
  end: 1289.683
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because they were all influential priest-scientists who were so impactful in the field of astronomy specifically that they wanted to honor them with craters on the moon, which is pretty cool.
  zh: 因为他们都是有影响力的神父科学家，特别是在天文学领域做出了如此重大的贡献，以至于人们想用月球陨石坑来纪念他们，这很酷。
- start: 1290.959
  end: 1307.828
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, you’ll find different numbers on it because it turns out there are differences in terms of who’s in charge of naming lunar craters, but in terms of the official names, there are about 33. Some people put the number a little higher at 40; either way, 33 is the most conservative number I saw.
  zh: 现在，你会发现不同的数字，因为在负责命名月球陨石坑的机构方面存在差异，但就官方名称而言，大约有33个。有些人把数字定得更高，达到40个；无论如何，33是我看到的最保守的数字。
- start: 1308.328
  end: 1330.115
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Add to that the fact that the Vatican has one of the world’s most influential observatories, which is a super weird fact you may not know: the Catholic Church has actually invested a fair amount of time, money, and research into making sure we have better astronomical equipment and has run this with these brilliant priest-scientists.'
  zh: 此外还有一个你可能不知道的超级奇特的事实：梵蒂冈拥有世界上最有影响力的天文台之一：天主教会实际上投入了相当多的时间、金钱和研究，以确保我们有更好的天文设备，并由这些杰出的神父科学家来运营。
- start: 1330.115
  end: 1333.907
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Today, that’s just astronomy, though, because of Galileo.
  zh: 不过，这只是因为伽利略的缘故，我们才谈到天文学。
- start: 1334.068
  end: 1336.85
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But if you broaden that and say, What about other fields?
  zh: 但如果你扩大范围说，其他领域又如何呢？
- start: 1336.85
  end: 1343.056
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You have fields like genetics, which was, oh by the way, a field founded by a Catholic priest, Gregor Mendel.
  zh: 你有像遗传学这样的领域，顺便说一下，这是由一位天主教神父格雷戈尔·孟德尔创立的。
- start: 1343.216
  end: 1353.606
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Or you have Big Bang cosmology; the Big Bang was proposed first by a Catholic priest, Monsignor Georges Lemaître, whose name I’m sure I’m butchering.
  zh: 或者你有大爆炸宇宙学；大爆炸理论最先是由一位天主教神父乔治·勒梅特蒙席提出的，我确信我没有把他的名字读准。
- start: 1353.686
  end: 1358.695
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He was a Belgian Catholic priest and a contemporary and kind of peer of Albert Einstein.
  zh: 他是一位比利时天主教神父，是爱因斯坦的同时代人，某种程度上也是他的同行。
- start: 1358.695
  end: 1360.476
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And this is nothing new, though.
  zh: 不过，这并不是什么新鲜事。
- start: 1360.657
  end: 1371.804
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'You go back a ways, and there’s a little bit of weird body trivia: there’s one part of the body named after a Catholic priest, and it’s a part of the body no Catholic priest has.'
  zh: 你往回追溯，会发现一个关于身体的有趣小知识：有一个身体部位是以一位天主教神父的名字命名的，而这个部位是任何天主教神父都没有的。
- start: 1372.184
  end: 1373.685
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It’s the fallopian tube.
  zh: 这就是输卵管。
- start: 1373.705
  end: 1385.133
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The fallopian tubes are so named after the Catholic priest who discovered them; he was an anatomist, Fallopio, or Fallopius, depending on which language you use for his name.
  zh: 输卵管是以发现它们的天主教神父命名的；他是一位解剖学家，叫法洛皮奥或法洛皮乌斯，取决于你用哪种语言说他的名字。
- start: 1385.76
  end: 1398.107
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, the point is there’s this long-standing academic tradition where the Church has not only embraced science but, in many cases, invented entire fields of science and pioneered them.
  zh: 所以，重点是教会有这样一个长期的学术传统，不仅接受科学，而且在许多情况下发明和开创了整个科学领域。
- start: 1398.347
  end: 1406.252
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Not only that, but the grand irony of this is that almost all of the major older universities are religious ones.
  zh: 不仅如此，更具讽刺意味的是，几乎所有主要的老牌大学都是宗教性的。
- start: 1406.252
  end: 1417.272
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, in the U.S., that was often Protestant universities like Harvard and Yale, but especially if you go into Europe and look at the original universities, these were without exception founded by the Catholic Church.
  zh: 在美国，这通常是像哈佛和耶鲁这样的新教大学，但特别是如果你去欧洲看看最初的大学，这些无一例外都是由天主教会创立的。
- start: 1418.432
  end: 1435.98
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In the Encyclopedia of Medieval Science, Technology, and Medicine, Michael Schenk, in the article on universities, points out that when we talk about universities, there’s some dispute about one particular Moroccan madrasa and whether that should count as a university or not because it was like an Islamic school of studies.
  zh: 在《中世纪科学、技术和医学百科全书》中，迈克尔·申克在关于大学的文章中指出，当我们谈论大学时，对于一所特定的摩洛哥伊斯兰学校是否应该算作大学存在一些争议，因为它更像是一所伊斯兰研究学校。
- start: 1436.758
  end: 1448.963
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But most people don’t count it, and so they’ll say the University of Paris, which was founded around the year 1200. Some people put that slightly later, like 1208 to 1215; it doesn’t matter.
  zh: 但大多数人不把它算在内，所以他们会说巴黎大学，它成立于1200年左右。有些人把时间定得稍晚一些，比如1208年到1215年；具体时间并不重要。
- start: 1449.944
  end: 1453.545
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It’s clearly a medieval Catholic institution of higher learning.
  zh: 这显然是一所中世纪天主教高等学府。
- start: 1453.765
  end: 1462.533
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Significantly, when the bishop and the chancellor of the university would get into fights, the head of the university would appeal to the Pope over the bishop’s head.
  zh: 重要的是，当主教和大学校长发生争执时，大学校长会越过主教直接向教宗申诉。
- start: 1462.834
  end: 1471.548
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This helped create a sort of precedent where the Pope was actually fighting for academic freedom from the meddling of the local bishop.
  zh: 这帮助创造了一个先例，教宗实际上在为学术自由而战，使其免受地方主教的干预。
- start: 1472.25
  end: 1477.338
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: As Schenk points out, the masters of the University of Paris often won with the aid of the papacy.
  zh: 正如申克指出的，巴黎大学的教师们在教廷的帮助下经常获胜。
- start: 1477.338
  end: 1481.66
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This wasn’t just true against the Bishop of Paris but also against the Commune of Bologna.
  zh: 这不仅适用于对抗巴黎主教，也适用于对抗博洛尼亚公社。
- start: 1482.581
  end: 1484.562
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, this created this important precedent.
  zh: 所以，这创造了这个重要的先例。
- start: 1484.562
  end: 1498.409
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Even our concept of academic freedom, ironically, comes from the fact that the papacy was fighting to make sure that the universities remained autonomous, self-regulating bodies, even though they were also officially clerical institutions.
  zh: 具有讽刺意味的是，即使我们的学术自由概念，也来自于教廷为确保大学保持自治、自我管理的机构而斗争的事实，尽管它们也是正式的教会机构。
- start: 1498.604
  end: 1506.868
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They didn’t want the local bishop, with whatever his biases and blinders may be, to have an excessive amount of influence on that.
  zh: 他们不希望地方主教，无论他有什么偏见和盲点，对此有过多的影响。
- start: 1506.868
  end: 1508.228
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, where is all this coming from?
  zh: 那么，这一切是从哪里来的？
- start: 1508.228
  end: 1514.711
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Is it just a coincidence that the Catholic Church has been such a pioneer in the sciences for literally centuries?
  zh: 天主教会在科学领域做了几个世纪的先驱，这仅仅是巧合吗？
- start: 1515.471
  end: 1520.733
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, it’s coming out of a particular way of viewing the world—a view of the world that not every religion shares.
  zh: 不，这来自于一种特殊的世界观——一种并非所有宗教都认同的世界观。
- start: 1521.274
  end: 1544.693
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It’s captured really well by Pope St. John Paul II in the encyclical Fides et Ratio, which means Faith and Reason, in which he writes, Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth, and God has placed in the human heart a desire to know the truth—in a word, to know Himself—so that by knowing and loving God, men and women may also come to the fullness of truth about themselves.
  zh: 这被教宗圣若望保禄二世在通谕《信仰与理性》中很好地表达了，他写道：信仰与理性就像两只翅膀，承载人类精神上升到真理的默观，而神在人心中放置了认识真理的渴望——换句话说，就是认识他自己——这样，通过认识和爱慕神，男女也能达到关于自己的圆满真理。
- start: 1545.634
  end: 1553.676
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'So, that’s the idea: we believe faith and reason are paths to a deeper understanding of God, reality, and ourselves.'
  zh: 所以，这就是这个理念：我们相信信仰和理性是通向更深入理解神、现实和我们自己的途径。
- start: 1554.176
  end: 1566.204
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you have that view—and this is what the Catholic Church has always taught—then it makes sense that you’re going to take the idea of the university very seriously, that you’re going to take the idea of reason very seriously, and that you’re going to take the sciences very seriously.
  zh: 如果你持有这种观点——这也是天主教会一直以来的教导——那么你认真对待大学的理念，认真对待理性的理念，认真对待科学就是很有道理的。
- start: 1566.565
  end: 1583.559
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, this idea that because Galileo got into a church politics fight, therefore we just ignore all of those hundreds and hundreds of years of history of literally creating the Western university and pioneering entire fields of science, and say, Oh, the Church is anti-science, is simply not accurate.
  zh: 所以，仅仅因为伽利略卷入了教会政治斗争，就忽视了数百年来创建西方大学和开创整个科学领域的历史，然后说，哦，教会反科学，这种说法简直不准确。
- start: 1583.559
  end: 1586.36
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It is an absurd extrapolation from one example.
  zh: 这是从一个例子中得出的荒谬推论。
- start: 1586.92
  end: 1593.922
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, I'm going to move now from myths that I hear more from atheists to now myths that I hear more from Protestants.
  zh: 好的，我现在要从我从无神论者那里听到的谬见转向我从新教徒那里听到的谬见。
- start: 1595.122
  end: 1599.663
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Chief among those, this is going to be number four on our list, is the idea that Catholics added books to the Bible.
  zh: 其中最主要的，这是我们清单上的第四个，就是认为天主教在圣经中添加了书卷。
- start: 1599.663
  end: 1602.684
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This is demonstrably untrue.
  zh: 这明显是不真实的。
- start: 1603.264
  end: 1607.686
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's true there are seven books in the Catholic Bible that are not in the Protestant Bible.
  zh: 确实，天主教圣经中有七本书是新教圣经中没有的。
- start: 1607.686
  end: 1609.646
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: These are all Old Testament books.
  zh: 这些都是旧约书卷。
- start: 1609.938
  end: 1616.483
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's not true that the Catholic Church added those in the mid-1500s, as the Protestant claim often goes.
  zh: 新教经常声称天主教会在1500年代中期添加了这些书卷，这是不真实的。
- start: 1616.843
  end: 1625.349
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Rather, we can see, for instance, back in the year 397, the Third Council of Carthage describing which books are considered canonical scripture.
  zh: 相反，我们可以看到，早在397年，第三次迦太基会议就描述了哪些书卷被认为是正典圣经。
- start: 1625.83
  end: 1629.933
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you read its Old Testament list, it has the disputed books.
  zh: 如果你读它的旧约清单，其中就有这些有争议的书卷。
- start: 1630.731
  end: 1632.693
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, you might say, Well, the Third Council of Carthage?
  zh: 现在，你可能会说，好吧，第三次迦太基会议？
- start: 1632.693
  end: 1636.598
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That’s not an ecumenical council; that’s a regional North African council.
  zh: 那不是大公会议；那是一个北非地区性的会议。
- start: 1636.598
  end: 1640.062
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: True, it’s an influential one, though, because St. Augustine is there.
  zh: 不过确实是一个有影响力的会议，因为圣奥古斯丁在那里。
- start: 1640.062
  end: 1643.907
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It also points out that this clearly wasn’t a response to the Reformation.
  zh: 这也表明这显然不是对宗教改革的回应。
- start: 1643.907
  end: 1650.394
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Clearly, you have Christians in the 300s who are convinced these 73 books are the books of the Bible.
  zh: 显然，在公元300年代就有基督徒确信这73本书是圣经的书卷。
- start: 1651.089
  end: 1656.431
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That’s not some 16th-century response to Protestantism; that’s early Christianity.
  zh: 这不是16世纪对新教的回应；这是早期基督教。
- start: 1656.792
  end: 1658.293
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It doesn’t have to be an ecumenical council.
  zh: 它不一定要是大公会议。
- start: 1658.293
  end: 1667.277
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Nonetheless, you do have an ecumenical council in the Middle Ages that jumps in on it again before the Council of Trent, when Protestants will sometimes claim the books were added.
  zh: 尽管如此，在特伦托会议之前的中世纪，确实有一个大公会议再次涉及这个问题，而新教徒有时声称这些书卷是在那时添加的。
- start: 1667.277
  end: 1675.442
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Council of Florence in 1442, about 40 years before Martin Luther was even born, has what’s called a Bull of Union with the Copts.
  zh: 1442年的佛罗伦萨会议，大约在马丁·路德出生前40年，有一个所谓的《与科普特教会联合诏书》。
- start: 1675.442
  end: 1685.108
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'So, a little bit of context: the Catholic Church is trying to reunite with the Eastern Orthodox and the Coptic Church, and one of the things they’re having to make sure they agree on is which books belong in the Bible.'
  zh: 这里有点背景：天主教会正试图与东正教和科普特教会重新联合，他们必须确保达成一致的事情之一就是哪些书卷属于圣经。
- start: 1685.108
  end: 1694.394
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, they list which books belong in the Bible, and lo and behold, it’s the exact same 73 books that we find in Catholic Bibles today.
  zh: 所以，他们列出了哪些书卷属于圣经，看啊，正是我们今天在天主教圣经中发现的完全相同的73本书。
- start: 1694.394
  end: 1696.797
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It doesn’t match the Protestant list.
  zh: 它与新教的清单不符。
- start: 1696.797
  end: 1700.039
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, instead, the Protestant reformers removed seven books.
  zh: 所以，实际上是新教改革者删除了七本书。
- start: 1700.039
  end: 1710.267
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Whether you think they were right or wrong to do it, at least let’s be honest about the facts: these 73 books were recognized at both a local and an ecumenical level, and not just by Catholics.'
  zh: 无论你认为他们这样做是对是错，至少让我们对事实诚实：这73本书在地方和大公层面都得到承认，而且不仅仅是天主教徒承认。
- start: 1710.267
  end: 1714.109
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We find representatives from the Orthodox and the Catholic side saying the same thing.
  zh: 我们发现东正教和天主教方面的代表都在说同样的话。
- start: 1714.41
  end: 1721.635
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We don’t find anybody there saying, Actually, there are just 66. No. So, what happened?
  zh: 我们没有发现任何人在那里说，实际上只有66本。不是的。那么，发生了什么？
- start: 1722.316
  end: 1733.962
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Greg Salazar, in an article in the Protestant magazine Table Talk, argues that Protestants stand with the New Testament writers in affirming that only those books that were in the original Hebrew canon have canonical authority.
  zh: 格雷格·萨拉查在新教杂志《桌边谈话》的一篇文章中主张，新教徒与新约作者站在同一立场，认为只有那些在原始希伯来正典中的书卷才有正典权威。
- start: 1733.962
  end: 1739.503
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, I’ve already done a couple of episodes on this topic, so I’m not going to get super in the weeds, but you should know two things.
  zh: 现在，我已经做了几期关于这个话题的节目，所以我不会过分深入细节，但你应该知道两件事。
- start: 1739.503
  end: 1744.424
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Number one, there isn’t an organized Hebrew canon at the time of Christ.
  zh: 第一，在基督时代并没有一个统一的希伯来正典。
- start: 1744.424
  end: 1756.407
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Different Jewish groups have different books that they think belong in the Bible, and in fact, if you read the Jewish Talmud, you’ll see debates about which books do and don’t belong in the Bible for literally hundreds of years after the time of Christ.
  zh: 不同的犹太团体有不同的认为属于圣经的书卷，事实上，如果你读犹太法典，你会看到在基督之后的几百年里，关于哪些书属于或不属于圣经的争论。
- start: 1756.957
  end: 1758.438
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, that’s the first point.
  zh: 这是第一点。
- start: 1758.438
  end: 1766.34
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Second, the early Christians did not, in fact, including the New Testament writers, believe that we were tied to the Hebrew Old Testament.
  zh: 第二，事实上早期基督徒，包括新约作者，并不认为我们必须局限于希伯来文旧约。
- start: 1766.641
  end: 1767.201
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How do we know that?
  zh: 我们怎么知道这一点？
- start: 1767.201
  end: 1773.523
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because overwhelmingly, they quoted from the Greek Old Testament, which included the books that Protestants now reject.
  zh: 因为他们绝大多数引用的是希腊文旧约，其中包括现在新教徒拒绝的那些书卷。
- start: 1773.864
  end: 1776.204
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And at times, these differences make a big difference.
  zh: 有时候，这些差异会造成很大的不同。
- start: 1776.204
  end: 1794.232
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'So, just to give you one example: in Hebrews chapter 10, one of the prophecies about the Incarnation quoted in verse 5 states that when Christ came into the world, He said, Sacrifices and offerings Thou hast not desired, but a body hast Thou prepared for Me. You might say, What’s He quoting there?'
  zh: 让我给你举个例子：在希伯来书第10章，第5节引用的关于道成肉身的预言之一说，当基督到世上来的时候，他说：「祭物和礼物是你不愿意的，你曾给我预备了身体。」你可能会说，他在那里引用的是什么？
- start: 1794.372
  end: 1808.56
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, He’s quoting the Greek version of Psalm 40, verse 6. The problem is that line is not found in the Hebrew version that Salazar claims is the one the New Testament authors believe in.
  zh: 他引用的是希腊文版本的诗篇40篇第6节。问题是这句话在萨拉查声称新约作者相信的希伯来文版本中是找不到的。
- start: 1808.934
  end: 1814.217
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In the Hebrew version, it says, Sacrifice and offering Thou didst not desire, but Thou hast given me an open ear.
  zh: 在希伯来文版本中，它说：「祭物和礼物是你不愿意的，你已经开通我的耳朵。」
- start: 1814.217
  end: 1822.442
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, it’s true Jesus is totally obedient to the Father, but His coming into the world seems to be a prediction of His Incarnation.
  zh: 现在，耶稣确实完全顺服天父，但他来到世上似乎是对他道成肉身的预言。
- start: 1822.783
  end: 1836.652
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The quote in Hebrews 10 is only found in the Greek version, and there are plenty of places that are like that where the Greek is preferred when there’s an actual difference between the Greek and Hebrew, and at times it matters quite a bit.
  zh: 希伯来书第10章的引文只在希腊文版本中找到，有很多类似的地方，当希腊文和希伯来文之间有实际差异时，希腊文版本是首选，有时这差异非常重要。
- start: 1837.432
  end: 1841.447
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: At the time, remember, Scripture is still being written until the time of Christ.
  zh: 记住，在当时，直到基督时代圣经仍在写作中。
- start: 1841.447
  end: 1847.748
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There’s no reason that the people in the New Testament would have thought, Oh, well, the time of Scripture is over.
  zh: 新约时代的人没有理由认为，哦，圣经写作的时代结束了。
- start: 1847.748
  end: 1850.569
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It wasn’t over; that’s why there’s a New Testament.
  zh: 它并没有结束；这就是为什么会有新约。
- start: 1851.129
  end: 1857.991
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, this idea that, Oh no, they just believed in the books that were in the Hebrew canon, is doubly false.
  zh: 所以，认为他们只相信希伯来正典中的书卷的想法是双重错误的。
- start: 1857.991
  end: 1862.472
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They used the Greek, and there was no organized Hebrew canon at the time.
  zh: 他们使用希腊文版本，而且当时并没有统一的希伯来正典。
- start: 1862.672
  end: 1864.172
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, so that’s the fourth myth.
  zh: 好的，这是第四个谬见。
- start: 1864.36
  end: 1866.902
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The fifth is the idea that Catholics worship Mary.
  zh: 第五个是认为天主教徒崇拜圣母玛利亚。
- start: 1866.902
  end: 1875.81
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you’ve talked to Protestants objecting to Catholicism, this is something that comes up a lot, and I even hear it from well-meaning Protestants who are like, So, why do you guys worship Mary?
  zh: 如果你和反对天主教的新教徒交谈，这是经常出现的话题，我甚至听到一些善意的新教徒这样问，那么，你们为什么崇拜玛利亚？
- start: 1875.81
  end: 1887.999
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'And the answer is, we don’t. But to understand this, you have to know a biblical distinction that many modern Christians have lost: prayer and worship are not the same thing.'
  zh: 答案是，我们不崇拜她。但要理解这一点，你必须知道许多现代基督徒已经忽略的一个圣经区分：祈祷和崇拜不是一回事。
- start: 1888.84
  end: 1889.761
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How do we know this?
  zh: 我们怎么知道这一点？
- start: 1889.761
  end: 1891.138
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We know it from the New Testament.
  zh: 我们从新约中知道这一点。
- start: 1891.138
  end: 1895.44
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: For instance, in Luke 18, Jesus reminds us that we ought always to pray.
  zh: 例如，在路加福音18章，耶稣提醒我们应当常常祷告。
- start: 1896.04
  end: 1897.301
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Where do we pray?
  zh: 我们在哪里祷告？
- start: 1897.681
  end: 1899.002
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Anywhere and everywhere.
  zh: 在任何地方，在所有地方。
- start: 1899.122
  end: 1902.503
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That was true in Jesus' day, and everybody knew that.
  zh: 在耶稣的时代这是真实的，每个人都知道这一点。
- start: 1902.503
  end: 1907.486
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Pharisees are out there praying on the street corners; they’re praying in the synagogues; they’re doing all that stuff.
  zh: 法利赛人在街角祷告；他们在会堂里祷告；他们做这一切事。
- start: 1907.486
  end: 1915.722
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And Jesus actually criticizes them in Matthew 6 for that—not because they had to be in a certain location, but because they’re purposely choosing public places.
  zh: 耶稣在马太福音第6章批评他们——不是因为他们必须在某个特定地点，而是因为他们故意选择公共场所。
- start: 1915.722
  end: 1919.845
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But if you’re supposed to pray anywhere and everywhere, what about worship?
  zh: 但如果你应该在任何地方和所有地方祷告，那敬拜又如何呢？
- start: 1919.845
  end: 1926.39
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, it’s very clear from this conversation with the Samaritan woman that worship is something distinct and it has a certain place.
  zh: 从与撒玛利亚妇人的对话中很清楚地看出，敬拜是一件不同的事，它有特定的地点。
- start: 1927.03
  end: 1930.493
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: At the time, that place was the temple in Jerusalem.
  zh: 在当时，那个地方是耶路撒冷的圣殿。
- start: 1930.733
  end: 1938.299
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Samaritan woman asks Him, she says, Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, Mount Gerizim, and you say that in Jerusalem is a place for men not to worship.
  zh: 撒玛利亚妇人问他说，我们的祖宗在这山上敬拜，基利心山，你们倒说，应当敬拜的地方是在耶路撒冷。
- start: 1938.299
  end: 1940.861
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, the temple in Jerusalem is what’s meant there, of course.
  zh: 所以，当然那里指的是耶路撒冷的圣殿。
- start: 1941.301
  end: 1948.502
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, notice we don’t have to get into all of the weeds here; there’s clearly a difference between this thing called prayer and this thing called worship.
  zh: 所以，注意我们不必深入所有细节；祷告和敬拜这两件事之间显然有区别。
- start: 1948.662
  end: 1955.786
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, if you say, Oh, Catholics pray to Mary; therefore, they worship her, you’re conflating an important biblical distinction.
  zh: 所以，如果你说，哦，天主教徒向玛利亚祷告；因此，他们崇拜她，你就混淆了一个重要的圣经区分。
- start: 1956.727
  end: 1960.708
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Worship can include prayer, but prayer is not automatically worship.
  zh: 敬拜可以包括祷告，但祷告不自动等同于敬拜。
- start: 1961.749
  end: 1967.272
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Another way we can see that is that prayer is conversation; prayer is speaking; it’s requests.
  zh: 我们可以从另一个角度看到，祷告是交谈；祷告是说话；是请求。
- start: 1968.317
  end: 1975.279
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Worship is giving something to God: adoration and particularly sacrifice or offering.'
  zh: 敬拜是向神献上某些东西：崇敬，特别是牺牲或奉献。
- start: 1975.279
  end: 1977.68
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It’s the offering of something to God.
  zh: 是向神献上的奉献。
- start: 1978.98
  end: 1988.803
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In the Book of Revelation, in Revelation 22, I often hear this passage used against Catholics who, you know, oh, we allegedly worship angels or saints, Mary, whatever.
  zh: 在启示录，在启示录22章，我经常听到这段经文被用来反对天主教徒，你知道，哦，说我们据称崇拜天使或圣人，玛利亚，等等。
- start: 1988.803
  end: 1995.756
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They’ll say, Well, don’t you know in Revelation 22 the angel tells John not to worship him?
  zh: 他们会说，难道你不知道在启示录22章天使告诉约翰不要敬拜他吗？
- start: 1995.756
  end: 1997.237
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And sure enough, that’s true.
  zh: 确实，这是真的。
- start: 1997.237
  end: 2004.08
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: John talks about having seen this incredible heavenly revelation, and then he falls down to worship at the feet of the angel.
  zh: 约翰谈到他看见了这令人难以置信的天上的启示，然后他俯伏在天使脚前要拜他。
- start: 2004.08
  end: 2006.361
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The angel says to him, You must not do that.
  zh: 天使对他说，千万不可这样。
- start: 2006.701
  end: 2011.844
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I am a fellow servant with you and your brethren the prophets and with those who keep the words of this book.
  zh: 我与你和你的弟兄众先知，并那些守这书上言语的人，同是作仆人的。
- start: 2011.844
  end: 2013.144
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Worship God.
  zh: 要敬拜神。
- start: 2013.664
  end: 2014.145
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Great!
  zh: 很好！
- start: 2014.145
  end: 2016.285
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, we should only worship God.
  zh: 所以，我们应该只敬拜神。
- start: 2017.306
  end: 2030.174
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But notice in the prior 21 chapters, John had been having a pretty protracted conversation with an angel, and the angel doesn’t say, Whoa, you’re not allowed to talk to me; only talk to God.
  zh: 但注意在前21章中，约翰一直在与天使进行相当长时间的对话，而天使并没有说，哇，你不能和我说话；只能和神说话。
- start: 2030.334
  end: 2035.115
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, it’s clearly okay to talk to the angel; it’s okay to ask things of the angel.
  zh: 不，显然和天使说话是可以的；向天使请求事情是可以的。
- start: 2035.155
  end: 2036.695
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It’s not okay to worship him.
  zh: 不可以敬拜他。
- start: 2037.115
  end: 2039.716
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, you know this with people in your life.
  zh: 现在，你在生活中就知道这一点。
- start: 2039.716
  end: 2044.036
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You can go to a brother Christian for prayers, and no one’s accusing you of idolatry.
  zh: 你可以去请求一位基督徒弟兄祷告，没有人会指责你拜偶像。
- start: 2044.036
  end: 2047.597
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Oh, why do you think you have to go to that idol, Jerry?
  zh: 哦，为什么你觉得你必须去找那个偶像杰瑞？
- start: 2048.117
  end: 2049.498
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why don’t you just go directly to God?
  zh: 为什么不直接去找神呢？
- start: 2049.498
  end: 2051.938
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And if they do say that, they’re ridiculous.
  zh: 如果他们这么说，那就太荒谬了。
- start: 2052.693
  end: 2056.814
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We know there’s a difference between going to somebody and worshiping them.
  zh: 我们知道去找某人和敬拜他们之间是有区别的。
- start: 2056.814
  end: 2066.616
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, if that’s true of other human beings here on Earth, and it’s true, as we see in the Book of Revelation, of angels, it’s also true of other human beings in heaven who are in the presence of God.
  zh: 好吧，如果这对地上的其他人是真实的，而且正如我们在启示录中看到的，对天使也是真实的，那么对于在天堂中与神同在的其他人类也是真实的。
- start: 2066.836
  end: 2068.937
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That doesn’t make it idolatry.
  zh: 这并不构成偶像崇拜。
- start: 2068.937
  end: 2070.657
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Let’s keep on the theme of worship.
  zh: 让我们继续谈敬拜的主题。
- start: 2070.657
  end: 2076.358
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The sixth myth is that Catholics worship idols because, after all, we have religious statues.
  zh: 第六个谬见是天主教徒崇拜偶像，因为毕竟我们有宗教雕像。
- start: 2076.358
  end: 2079.259
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The idea is, okay, this is just like what pagans were doing.
  zh: 这种想法是，好吧，这就像异教徒所做的。
- start: 2079.259
  end: 2083.862
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, leave aside the number of ways this might misunderstand paganism.
  zh: 现在，暂且不说这可能在多方面误解了异教。
- start: 2083.862
  end: 2091.408
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It doesn’t matter for our purposes; let’s just call out the fact that religious imagery is not idolatry.
  zh: 这对我们的目的来说并不重要；让我们就指出宗教图像不是偶像崇拜这个事实。
- start: 2091.488
  end: 2094.31
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There’s a huge distinction biblically.
  zh: 在圣经中有一个很大的区别。
- start: 2094.31
  end: 2094.991
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How do we know that?
  zh: 我们怎么知道这一点？
- start: 2094.991
  end: 2096.251
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Plenty of places.
  zh: 有很多例子。
- start: 2096.852
  end: 2105.458
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'First of all, again, this idea of what is worship: it’s not just a matter of having an image; it’s worshiping an image.'
  zh: 首先，再说一次，什么是敬拜：不是仅仅拥有一个图像的问题；而是崇拜一个图像。
- start: 2105.458
  end: 2109.701
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Having an image is not just biblically permitted; it’s even biblically commanded at times.
  zh: 拥有图像不仅在圣经中是被允许的；有时甚至是圣经所命令的。
- start: 2109.858
  end: 2116.239
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: For instance, in Exodus 25, God says to make two cherubim of gold before the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant.
  zh: 例如，在出埃及记25章，神说要在约柜施恩座前制造两个金基路伯。
- start: 2116.239
  end: 2120.54
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, occasionally you’ll have people say, Well, that’s okay because God commanded it.
  zh: 现在，有时你会听到人们说，好吧，那是可以的因为是神命令的。
- start: 2120.54
  end: 2126.201
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, look, if it’s idolatry, God can’t command idolatry without commanding evil.
  zh: 好吧，看，如果这是偶像崇拜，神就不能命令偶像崇拜而不命令邪恶。
- start: 2126.622
  end: 2138.284
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, clearly, it’s not idolatry just to have two giant golden statues of angels that people are bowing down in front of as they worship before God in the Ark of the Covenant.
  zh: 所以，很明显，在约柜前敬拜神时，在两个巨大的金天使像前俯伏并不是偶像崇拜。
- start: 2139.025
  end: 2142.566
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But moreover, this is not a stand-alone kind of example.
  zh: 而且，这不是一个孤立的例子。
- start: 2142.566
  end: 2149.467
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Solomon, when he’s building the first temple, is not told these are exactly the images you’re allowed to have.
  zh: 所罗门建造第一座圣殿时，并没有被告知这些就是你被允许拥有的确切图像。
- start: 2149.467
  end: 2158.709
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Instead, 1 Kings 6:29 says that he carved all the walls of the house round about with carved figures of cherubim and palm trees and open flowers in the inner and outer rooms.
  zh: 相反，列王纪上6:29说，他在内外殿的四围墙上都雕刻了基路伯、棕树和初开的花。
- start: 2158.709
  end: 2162.289
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There’s representational art, including art of the cherubim.
  zh: 这里有具象艺术，包括基路伯的艺术。
- start: 2162.289
  end: 2166.99
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Again, this is seemingly okay.
  zh: 再次说明，这似乎是可以的。
- start: 2167.512
  end: 2171.013
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: St. Paul in the New Testament says to the Galatians, O foolish Galatians!
  zh: 圣保禄在新约中对加拉太人说：「无知的加拉太人哪！」
- start: 2171.013
  end: 2176.595
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
  zh: 谁迷惑了你们呢？耶稣基督钉十字架，已经活画在你们眼前。
- start: 2176.896
  end: 2177.856
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, it’s a mysterious line.
  zh: 现在，这是一句神秘的话。
- start: 2177.856
  end: 2186.639
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We don’t know how this was depicted before their eyes; they clearly weren’t present at Jesus' literal crucifixion.
  zh: 我们不知道这是如何呈现在他们眼前的；他们显然没有亲眼目睹耶稣的实际钉十字架。
- start: 2186.999
  end: 2196.723
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, is he speaking just vaguely and metaphorically, or is he saying that somehow he visibly represented the crucifixion to the Galatians, which is what he literally is saying?
  zh: 所以，他是在含糊地比喻性地说，还是在说他以某种方式向加拉太人可见地展示了钉十字架的场景，这是他字面上在说的？
- start: 2196.909
  end: 2209.271
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Either way, it seems pretty clear that he’s not of the view that depicting Jesus Christ as crucified before someone’s eyes would be an act of idolatry, or else he’s claiming to be an idol maker, which he was not.
  zh: 无论如何，似乎很清楚他并不认为在人们眼前描绘被钉十字架的耶稣基督是偶像崇拜，否则他就是在声称自己是个制造偶像的人，而他显然不是。
- start: 2210.092
  end: 2215.093
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The point there is that the mere presence of images is not sinful.
  zh: 要点是仅仅拥有图像并不是罪。
- start: 2215.093
  end: 2218.393
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The mere presence of religious images is not sinful.
  zh: 仅仅拥有宗教图像并不是罪。
- start: 2218.433
  end: 2221.914
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Worshiping images is sinful.
  zh: 崇拜图像才是罪。
- start: 2221.914
  end: 2226.555
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, you might say, Well, shouldn’t we avoid all images in case it leads to worship?
  zh: 现在，你可能会说，好吧，我们不是应该避免所有图像，以防导致崇拜吗？
- start: 2226.735
  end: 2229.396
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But look, you can worship anything.
  zh: 但是看，你可以崇拜任何东西。
- start: 2229.696
  end: 2234.899
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You could worship another human being, and you go back in history and see that people did things like worship the emperor.
  zh: 你可以崇拜另一个人，你回顾历史就会看到人们做过崇拜皇帝这样的事。
- start: 2235.499
  end: 2239.001
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That doesn’t mean we have to get rid of our neighbor because I could potentially worship him.
  zh: 这并不意味着我们必须摆脱我们的邻居，因为我可能会崇拜他。
- start: 2239.001
  end: 2240.401
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It doesn’t follow at all.
  zh: 这完全说不通。
- start: 2240.782
  end: 2249.826
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The continual teaching of the Church is that religious imagery can actually help us focus the mind and lead to our contemplation of God.
  zh: 教会一贯的教导是，宗教图像实际上可以帮助我们集中思想，引导我们默想神。
- start: 2249.826
  end: 2260.311
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'All right, and now for the seventh and final common myth: this idea that in Catholicism you’re supposed to save yourself through good works, and particularly through good works apart from faith.'
  zh: 好的，现在是第七个也是最后一个常见的谬见：认为在天主教中你应该通过善功拯救自己，特别是通过与信仰无关的善功。
- start: 2260.311
  end: 2264.353
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You’ve got to do enough to kind of earn a relationship with God.
  zh: 你必须做够多的事来赚取与神的关系。
- start: 2265.113
  end: 2267.554
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That is terribly wrong; that is heretical.
  zh: 这是大错特错的；这是异端。
- start: 2267.554
  end: 2271.216
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That’s something the Catholic Church has actually condemned over and over again.
  zh: 这是天主教会实际上一再谴责的事情。
- start: 2271.816
  end: 2279.999
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: For instance, in the Council of Trent, we’re specifically warned that sure, it’s true that much is attributed to good works in Scripture.
  zh: 例如，在特伦托会议中，我们被特别警告说，确实，圣经中确实把很多归于善功。
- start: 2279.999
  end: 2291.172
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you’re actually reading the New Testament without a lens that says faith alone, then you’ll notice that Christ makes a lot of promises that seem to indicate that works will be rewarded.
  zh: 如果你实际上在读新约时不带着唯独因信的镜片，那么你会注意到基督做出了很多似乎表明善工会得到报酬的应许。
- start: 2291.292
  end: 2296.773
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That if you give a drink of cold water to one of the least of these, you won’t lose your reward.
  zh: 如果你把一杯凉水给这些最小的一个喝，你不会失去你的赏赐。
- start: 2296.773
  end: 2298.733
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Something is being promised to good works.
  zh: 善功确实被应许了某些东西。
- start: 2298.733
  end: 2314.276
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Nevertheless, the Council of Trent warns, God forbid that a Christian should either trust their glory in himself and not in the Lord, whose bounty towards all men is so great that He will have the things which are His own gifts be their merits.
  zh: 然而，特伦托会议警告说，但愿基督徒不要将荣耀归于自己而不归于主，主对所有人的恩惠如此之大，以至于他要使自己的恩赐成为他们的功德。
- start: 2315.017
  end: 2328.047
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In other words, even when you’re being rewarded by God for doing something good, don’t think this is because of you apart from God, because all you’ve done is respond to the graces God has given you.
  zh: 换句话说，即使当你因做好事而得到神的赏赐时，也不要认为这是因为你独立于神之外的功劳，因为你所做的一切只是回应神给你的恩典。
- start: 2328.428
  end: 2332.871
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, in none of this are you able to work apart from grace alone.
  zh: 所以，在这一切中，你都无法离开恩典独自工作。
- start: 2333.311
  end: 2334.993
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That’s simply the truth of it.
  zh: 这就是简单的事实。
- start: 2334.993
  end: 2340.176
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Whether we’re talking about faith or whether we’re talking about good works, this is flowing from divine grace.
  zh: 无论我们谈论信仰还是谈论善功，这都是源于神的恩典。
- start: 2340.297
  end: 2344.7
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It is only by grace that you’re able to believe, and it’s only by grace that you’re able to do any good works.
  zh: 你能够相信只是因着恩典，你能够行任何善功也只是因着恩典。
- start: 2344.952
  end: 2349.713
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, you have no basis for boasting; you’ve got no basis for trusting in yourself.
  zh: 所以，你没有夸口的根据；你没有信靠自己的根据。
- start: 2350.253
  end: 2353.214
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This isn’t some new thing the Council of Trent was saying.
  zh: 这不是特伦托会议说的什么新东西。
- start: 2353.214
  end: 2378.058
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you go all the way back to—it's another one of these regional councils—but the Council of Orange in 529, one of the ways it’s responding to Pelagianism is by reiterating that you cannot maintain that God awaits our will to be cleansed from sin, because instead, even our will to be cleansed comes to us through the infusion and working of the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 如果你追溯到——这是另一个地区性会议——529年的奥兰治会议，它回应伯拉纠主义的方式之一就是重申你不能认为神在等待我们愿意被洁净罪，因为相反，即使我们要被洁净的意愿也是通过圣灵的注入和工作而来的。
- start: 2378.058
  end: 2380.64
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, even when you say, You know what?
  zh: 所以，即使当你说，你知道吗？
- start: 2380.64
  end: 2389.024
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I’m going to go be in relationship with God; I’m going to initiate contact with God, you can only form that thought because God has already put it in you.
  zh: 我要去与神建立关系；我要主动与神接触，你能形成这个想法只是因为神已经把它放在你里面了。
- start: 2389.024
  end: 2391.125
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: God is always the one who initiates.
  zh: 神永远是主动的那一位。
- start: 2391.125
  end: 2398.628
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: God is always the one who prompts; He’s always the one who gives you the graces, even the graces necessary to respond to His prompting.
  zh: 神总是那位促动的；他总是那位赐予恩典的，甚至包括回应他促动所需的恩典。
- start: 2399.925
  end: 2410.191
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: One of the citations for this, which I think is an excellent one, is Philippians 2:13, in which St. Paul reminds us that God is at work in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
  zh: 对此的一个引证，我认为是很好的一个，是腓立比书2:13，其中圣保禄提醒我们，神在你们心里运行，为要成就他的美意，使你们立志行事。
- start: 2410.531
  end: 2415.194
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, whether it’s your desire or your action, all of that is coming from God.
  zh: 所以，无论是你的意愿还是行动，这一切都来自神。
- start: 2415.314
  end: 2421.137
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, this idea that we have to initiate is not just heretical; it’s impossible.
  zh: 所以，认为我们必须主动的想法不仅是异端；而且是不可能的。
- start: 2421.79
  end: 2423.53
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Only God can initiate contact.
  zh: 只有神能主动建立联系。
- start: 2423.53
  end: 2433.092
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It’s true we have a role in responding, and it’s true God promises to reward that, but even our response is only made possible because of His divine initiative.
  zh: 确实我们在回应中有角色，确实神应许要赏赐那个，但即使我们的回应也只是因为他的神圣主动才成为可能。
- start: 2433.892
  end: 2438.693
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, I know this one, by nature of the topic, is all over the place.
  zh: 好的，我知道这一期因为主题的性质，内容很分散。
- start: 2438.753
  end: 2445.494
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There are seven different subjects, and I’m sure there are many more misconceptions and myths that we could have explored.
  zh: 有七个不同的主题，我相信还有更多我们本可以探讨的误解和谬见。
- start: 2445.695
  end: 2453.563
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But my goal here, to go back to Rex, is to make sure that we’re not saying weird and crazy things that we’re struggling with about Catholicism.
  zh: 但我在这里的目标，回到雷克斯的例子，是要确保我们不会说一些关于天主教的怪异和疯狂的事情而苦恼。
- start: 2453.863
  end: 2459.664
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: 'For instance, these ones: Look, Father, I don’t think you’re being straight with me.'
  zh: 例如这些：看，神父，我觉得你对我不够坦白。
- start: 2459.824
  end: 2464.325
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: I want to join your Church, and I’m going to join your Church, but you’re holding too much back.
  zh: 我想加入你的教会，我也会加入你的教会，但你隐瞒了太多。
- start: 2464.325
  end: 2466.126
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: What do you mean, holding too much back?
  zh: 你说隐瞒太多是什么意思？
- start: 2466.306
  end: 2471.187
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: I’ve had a long talk with a Catholic, a very pious and well-educated one, and I’ve learned a thing or two.
  zh: 我和一个天主教徒谈了很久，一个非常虔诚和有学问的人，我学到了一两件事。
- start: 2471.467
  end: 2477.908
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: For instance, you have to sleep with your feet pointing east because that’s the direction of heaven, so if you die in the night, you can walk there.
  zh: 比如说，你必须脚朝东睡觉，因为那是天堂的方向，这样如果你在夜里死了，你就可以走到那里。
- start: 2478.743
  end: 2485.228
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Now, I’ll sleep with my feet pointing any way that suits Julia, but do you expect a grown man to believe about walking to heaven?
  zh: 现在，我会让我的脚朝任何朱莉娅觉得合适的方向睡觉，但你期望一个成年人相信走到天堂的事吗？
- start: 2485.808
  end: 2488.73
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And what about the Pope who made one of his horses a cardinal?
  zh: 那个让自己的一匹马当枢机主教的教宗又是怎么回事？
- start: 2488.871
  end: 2494.475
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And what about the box you have in the church porch where if you put a pound note with somebody’s name on it, they get sent to hell?
  zh: 还有你们在教堂门廊里的那个盒子，如果你把写着某人名字的一英镑钞票放进去，他们就会被送到地狱，这又是怎么回事？
- start: 2494.475
  end: 2500.44
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Mr. Martin, I’m not saying there may not be a good reason for all this, but you ought to tell me about it.
  zh: 马丁先生，我不是说这一切可能没有好理由，但你应该告诉我这些。
- start: 2500.44
  end: 2502.301
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Now, let me go and find out for myself.
  zh: 现在，让我自己去查明真相。
- start: 2504.343
  end: 2505.684
  speaker: SPEAKER_03
  en: Who can he have been talking to?
  zh: 他可能是在和谁说话？
- start: 2505.684
  end: 2507.985
  speaker: SPEAKER_03
  en: Did he dream it all?
  zh: 他是在做梦吗？
- start: 2509.602
  end: 2511.083
  speaker: SPEAKER_03
  en: Cordelia, what’s the matter?
  zh: 科迪莉娅，怎么回事？
- start: 2512.884
  end: 2514.885
  speaker: SPEAKER_03
  en: What a chump!
  zh: 真是个傻瓜！
- start: 2515.346
  end: 2517.747
  speaker: SPEAKER_03
  en: What a glorious chump!
  zh: 多么光荣的傻瓜！
- start: 2520.049
  end: 2522.011
  speaker: SPEAKER_03
  en: Cordelia, it was you!
  zh: 科迪莉娅，是你干的！
- start: 2522.011
  end: 2525.833
  speaker: SPEAKER_03
  en: Oh, Mummy, who would have believed that he would have swallowed it?
  zh: 哦，妈妈，谁能相信他会相信这些？
- start: 2525.914
  end: 2533.499
  speaker: SPEAKER_03
  en: I told him such a lot besides about sacred monkeys in the Vatican and all kinds of things.
  zh: 我还告诉他很多其他的事，比如梵蒂冈的神圣猴子之类的事情。
- start: 2533.499
  end: 2537.842
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, in short, there are no sacred monkeys in the Vatican.
  zh: 所以，简而言之，梵蒂冈没有神圣猴子。
- start: 2538.456
  end: 2541.218
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You can't walk away to heaven if you die facing east.
  zh: 你不会因为朝东而死就能走到天堂。
- start: 2541.758
  end: 2546.842
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The seven misconceptions that you heard today are common misconceptions that just aren't true.
  zh: 你今天听到的这七个误解都是常见的，但都不是真的。
- start: 2546.842
  end: 2558.13
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I don't want you to be a chump; I don't want you to be duped by lies about the Catholic Church, and I don't want you to accept or reject Catholicism on the basis of anything other than the truth.
  zh: 我不想让你成为傻瓜；我不想让你被关于天主教会的谎言欺骗，我也不想让你基于真理之外的任何事情来接受或拒绝天主教。
- start: 2559.151
  end: 2561.493
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: For Shameless Popery, I'm Joe Heschmeyer.
  zh: 这里是《无耻教皇党》，我是乔·赫施迈尔。
- start: 2561.493
  end: 2561.973
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: God bless you.
  zh: 愿神保佑你。
