欢迎回到《无耻教皇党》！ Welcome back to Shameless Popery!
我是乔·赫施迈尔，今天我想探讨七个我认为最常见的关于公教会及其信仰的误解和谬见。 I'm Joe Heschmeyer, and today I want to explore seven of what I think are the most common misconceptions and myths about the Catholic Church and what the Church believes.
这些都是你可能听说过的一些误解，你现在可能相信或曾经相信过的观点。 These are going to be some misconceptions that you may have heard before, ones you may in fact believe or may have believed.
我认为，无论你是不是天主教徒，了解这些误解是错误的都很重要。 I think it's important, whether you're Catholic or not Catholic, to know that these misconceptions are false.
毕竟，如果你要接受或拒绝天主教，至少应该基于它的 真实面貌和实际教导，而不是基于一个虚构的版本。 I mean, after all, if you're going to accept or reject Catholicism, you should at least accept or reject it based on what it actually is, what it actually teaches, and not on a fictional version.
基于错误信息做出如此重要的决定实在是太可惜了。 It would be a shame to make a decision that important based on bad information.
所以，我想探讨来自非信徒如无神论者，以及来自其他基督徒如新教徒的误解。 So, I want to look at misconceptions coming both from non-believers, like atheists, but also fellow Christians, like Protestants.
这份清单上的第一个误解必定是认为教宗永远都是对的。 Number one on that list has got to be the idea that the Pope is always right.
这部分是我们的责任；我们有一个叫做教宗无误的教义，如果你只知 道这个名字，很容易想象这意味着教宗在任何事情上都永远不会错。 This is partly our fault; we have a doctrine called papal infallibility, and if all you know is the title, it's easy to imagine that this means the Pope is never wrong about anything whatsoever.
如果这真是我们所信的，那驳倒天主教就太容易了。 If that was what we believed, it'd be super easy to disprove Catholicism.
你可以说：「啊哈！」 You could say, Aha!
看，这次教宗在某事上犯错了。 Look at this time the Pope was wrong about something.
事实上，这在天主教徒中间一直是个笑话。 In fact, this is kind of a long-standing joke among Catholics.
比如说，在公教会作家伊夫林·沃的二十世纪初或中期小说 《故园风雨后》中，有一个叫雷克斯·莫特拉姆的角色。 For instance, in the early 20th century or mid-20th century novel Brideshead Revisited by the Catholic author Evelyn Waugh, there's the character of Rex Mottram.
雷克斯是一个新教徒，为了娶他的公教会基督徒未婚妻朱莉娅，他正在考虑皈依天主教。 Rex is a Protestant who is in the process of maybe converting to Catholicism in order to marry his Catholic fiancée, Julia.
在这个过程中，他与神父会面，贯穿始终的笑点是雷克斯对公教会神学的理解非常混乱。 Along the way, he's meeting with the priest, and the kind of running gag is that Rex has a very confused understanding of anything about Catholic theology.
他准备对任何事情都说是，但他对天主教有一种非常有趣的误解。 He's ready to say yes to anything, but he has a very funny kind of misconception about Catholicism.
有一次，神父在教宗无误的问题上追问他，我总是想起这一幕。 At one point, the priest is pressing him on the question of papal infallibility, and I always am reminded of this scene.
这总是让我觉得很有趣，我想分享它，希望你也能像我一样觉得它既有趣又富有启发性。 I'm always tickled by it, and I'm going to share it in the hopes that maybe you'll find it as funny and illuminating as I do.
假设教宗抬头看见一朵云，说道：「要下雨了。」 Supposing the Pope looked up and saw a cloud and said, It's going to rain.
那会发生吗？ Was that ever going to happen?
「哦是的，神父，我猜没有下。我猜没有下雨。」 Oh yes, Father, I suppose it didn't. I suppose there was no rain.
「我猜可能是在灵性层面上下雨了。」 I suppose it'd be sort of raining spiritually.
「只是我们太有罪了，看不见而已。」 Only we were too sinful to see it.
就像我说的，每次看到这段我都觉得很好笑。 Like I said, I find that clip hilarious every time.
但好吧，如果不是这样的话，如果教宗无误并不是相信教宗能 出去做一个百分之百准确的天气预报员，那它到底是什么？ But okay, if that's not what it is, if papal infallibility isn't the belief that the Pope could go out and be a weather forecaster with 100% accuracy, what is it?
这是无误性这个更广泛概念的一部分。 Well, it's part of this broader concept of infallibility.
信理圣部（负责解释公教会神学和教义的机构）在19 73年解释这个概念时，首先指出神自身是无误的。 The idea was described by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which is in charge of helping to explain Catholic theology and Catholic doctrine, back in 1973, by starting with the idea that God Himself is infallible.
神确实是无误的；他可以成为完美的天气预报员。 Now, God is literally infallible; He could be the perfect weather forecaster.
但他选择赐予他的子民，即教会，一定程度的共享无误 性，请注意这里的用词，这仅限于信仰和道德事务。 But He has chosen to bestow upon His people, the Church, a certain shared infallibility, which, notice the language here, is restricted to matters of faith and morals.
所以，像天气这样的事情——这不是信仰或道德的问题。 So, something like the weather—that's not a question of faith or morals.
所以，好吧，不是那样的。 So, okay, that's not it.
还要注意的是，这是神的子民共同分享的。 And notice also that this is something the people of God share in.
所以，如果所有基督徒都知道X是好的而Y是坏的，这是真的而那是假的， 我们相信圣灵引导神的子民达到这种认识，无论是否有正式的教宗谕令。 So, if all Christians just know that X is good and Y is bad, this is true and that’s false, we believe the Holy Spirit has led the people of God into that, whether there's been an official papal decree or not.
如果每个人都知道马太、马可、路加和约翰福音是我们应当接受 的默示圣经，那么教会是否发布正式声明并不重要，因为这种层 面的无误性是通过神的子民，即基督徒群体共同行动而实现的。 If everybody knows Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are Gospels that we should accept as inspired Scripture, it doesn't matter whether the Church has come out with an official pronouncement or not, because one level of infallibility works with the people of God, Christians kind of acting collectively.
现在，要准确指出这种无误性的具体所在确实很难，但你应该已经注意到，无 误性的立场包括我们可以称之为信众无误性的内容，而不仅仅是教宗无误性。 Now, it's hard to always pin down kind of where that is, but you should notice already that the position of infallibility includes what we might call people infallibility, not just papal infallibility.
而且这显然不是关于所有事情的；我们并不是说每个人在所有事情上都是对的。 And it's clearly not about everything; we're not saying everyone is right about everything.
那样说是没有道理的。 That wouldn't make any sense.
我们在各种事情上都有分歧，但关键是当我们没有分歧时，当基督徒能 够肩并肩地说「这是真理」时，这就是一个很强的迹象表明它确实是真 理，因为是神引导我们认识这个真理，而不是我们自己的人性推理。 We disagree on all sorts of things, but the point is when we aren't disagreeing, when Christians are able to stand shoulder to shoulder and say, This thing is true, that is a very strong indication that it is true because God has led us into that truth, not our own human reasoning.
对教宗来说具体是什么样的呢？ What does that look like for the Pope in particular?
我们要谈论的是教会训导权，也就是教会的教导权威。 Well, we're going to talk about the Magisterium, called the teaching authority of the Church.
耶稣基督按照自己的旨意参与教会的治理；他本不必通过某些教师来做这件事。 Jesus Christ shares in the governance of the Church by His own will; He didn't have to do that with certain teachers.
基督教中显然有教师的存在，所以当主教们——我们稍后会谈到教宗——当分布在世界各地 的主教们与伯多禄的继承人教宗团结一致地教导共同的教义，并将某个教义作为不可改变的 信仰提出时，请注意：这不是他们认为某事是真的，而是他们坚持这是你必须相信的事。 There are clearly teachers within Christianity, and so when the bishops, we'll get to the Pope in a second, when the bishops scattered around the world are teaching a common doctrine in union with the Pope, the successor of Peter, and they present a doctrine to be held irrevocably, notice this: it's not that they think a certain thing is true, but that they insist this is a thing you have to believe.
这是作为必须持守的教义而提出的。 It is presented as a doctrine to be held.
我们相信这是无误的。 We believe that this is infallible.
所以，注意这不是任何话题上的所有事情；甚至不是信仰和道德方面的所有事情。 So, notice it's not just everything on any topic; it's not even just everything on faith and morals.
是关于信仰和道德的事情被提出，而且不仅仅是被提出， 而是作为教义被提出——特别是我们必须持守的教义。 It's things on faith and morals that are presented, and not just presented, but are presented as doctrines—specifically, doctrines that we have to hold.
正如我们马上要看到的，对无误性的正确理解，无论你同 意与否，都不是说教宗或主教们拥有某种特殊的神谕。 As we're going to see in a moment here, a proper understanding of infallibility, which again, whether you agree with it or disagree with it, isn't that it's some kind of special oracle that the Pope or the bishops have.
相反，这是一种给予教宗的神圣保护，给予主教们的神圣保护。 It's instead a sort of divine protection from the Pope, a divine protection from the bishops.
我马上会解释这是什么意思。 I'll explain what I mean by that in a minute.
这是关于主教们的情况，你也可以在大公会议或教宗身上看到这一点。 But that's the bishops now, and you can also see this in ecumenical councils or with the Pope.
所以，在大公会议上，当一个大公会议在教宗的参与下确立一个必 须持守的教义时，这就是教会行使无误性的一个非常明确的例子。 So, in ecumenical councils, when an ecumenical council, again with the Pope, defines a doctrine to be held, that is a very clear instance of the Church acting infallibly.
同样，当罗马教宗，也就是教宗，以主座身份发言时——这里的主座不是指实际的椅子，而 是指他的权威——当他行使作为全体基督徒的牧者和教师的职责，并通过他的最高宗徒权威 ，确立一个教义时，注意不是任何教义，而是关于普世教会必须持守的信仰和道德的教义。 Likewise, when the Roman Pontiff, again the Pope, speaks ex cathedra—that means from the chair, not literally a chair, just from his authority—when he's exercising the office of pastor and teacher of all Christians, and through his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine, notice not just any doctrine, but a doctrine concerning faith and morals to be held by the universal Church.
所以，如果符合这些条件，那么我们就是在处理无误性的问题。 So, if those criteria are met, then we're dealing with infallibility.
现在，具体来说，你应该注意到一点：这里有一个共同的主线。 Now, specifically, you should notice something: there's a common thread here.
这种对确立必须持守的教义，或提出必须持守的教义的强调，不 一定是一个实际的定义，但这是作为基督徒你必须持守的东西。 This emphasis on defining a doctrine to be held, or putting forward a doctrine to be held, doesn't have to be an actual definition, but it's something that you have to hold as a Christian.
那么，为什么这些事情是无误的呢？ So, why would those things be infallible?
我们可以这样来说明：耶稣告诉我们几件重要的事。 Well, we can put the case maybe a little bit this way: Jesus tells us a couple of important things.
第一，他是道路、真理、生命，若不藉着他，没有人能到父那里去。 Number one, that He is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through Him.
这是约翰福音14:6。所以，我们必须持守真理，但我们也必须持守合一。 That's John 14:6. So, we have to hold to the truth, but we also have to hold to unity.
耶稣在最后的晚餐上，在他告诉我们他是道路、真理 、生命的同一个地方，也为他未来的跟随者祈祷。 Jesus, at the Last Supper, the same place He tells us He's the way, the truth, and the life, also prays for His future followers.
他说，我不但为这些人祈求，也为那些因他们的话信我的人祈求，那就是我们。 He says, I pray not for these only, but also for those who believe in Me through their word, that is us.
那么，他为你我的祈祷是什么？ So, what is His prayer for you and me?
愿我们都合而为一，像他与父原为一。 That we will all be one, even as He and the Father are one.
为什么？ Why?
叫世人可以信你差了我来。所以注意，他说我们必须持 守合一，为了福音的广传，持守合一是至关重要的。 That they may believe in us, that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me. So, notice He’s saying we have to hold to unity, and it’s vital for the success of the Gospel that we do hold to unity.
想象一下，如果我们不是经常彼此争斗，基督教会有多么兴旺。 Imagine how much more successful Christianity would be if we weren’t constantly fighting with one another.
所以，按照耶稣的话，我们必须持守这两样：真理和合一。 So, we have to hold these two things, according to Jesus: truth and unity.
当然还有更多，但这两样对我们来说特别重要。 Now, there’s more than that, but those two are the ones that are going to be really important for us.
我们甚至可以从反面来看这个问题。 We can even put that kind of in the opposite direction.
如果你拒绝真理，会发生什么？ If you reject truth, what happens?
彼得后书第二章——圣彼得警告我们那些引进败坏异端 的人，连买他们的主他们也不承认，自取速速的灭亡。 Well, 2 Peter 2—St. Peter warns us about heretics who introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
所以，如果你为了错谬而拒绝真理，你至少是在冒着灵性沉沦的危险。 So, if you reject truth for the sake of error, you are risking at least spiritual damnation.
同样，如果你拒绝教会的合一，你也在冒着灵性沉沦的危险。 But likewise, if you reject the unity of the Church, you’re also risking spiritual damnation.
圣保禄在给加拉太人的书信中谈到肉体的事，列举了仇恨、争竞、纷争和结党等。 St. Paul, in his letter to the Galatians, talks about the works of the flesh and lists them, including things like enmity, strife, dissension, and party spirit.
换句话说，就是基督徒与基督徒对立，基督徒背离教会合一。 In other words, Christians who pit themselves against other Christians, Christians who break away from the unity of the Church.
他警告说行这样事的人必不能承受神的国。 He warns that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.
这是一个更清楚的警告，表明这是该受咒诅的。 That’s an even clearer warning that that’s damnable.
所以，你可能不是异端；你可能不是分裂者。 So, you may not be a heretic; you may not be a schismatic.
关键在这里：如果你在教会中的导师，你的主教，你的教 宗，要求你相信某个教义才能成为基督徒，你会怎么做？ So, here’s the kicker: if your teacher in the Church, your bishop, your Pope, requires you to believe a certain doctrine in order to be a Christian, what are you going to do?
如果那个教义是错误的，如果教宗说，凭我的无误权威，我宣布这 事为真，而它实际是假的，那么我们每个人都必须说，好吧，要么 我接受这个错误的教义成为异端，要么我脱离教会成为分裂者。 Well, if that doctrine is erroneous, if the Pope says, By my infallible authority, I’m declaring this thing to be true, and it’s false, then every one of us has to say, Okay, well, I’m going to accept this false doctrine and become a heretic, or I’m going to break away from the Church and become a schismatic.
而耶稣告诉我们这两样都不能做。 And Jesus told us we couldn’t do either of those things.
记住，在约翰福音17章，当他为未来的跟随者祈祷时，他知道未来；他是神。 And remember, in John 17, when He’s praying for His future followers, He knows the future; He’s God.
当他为我们祈祷并告诉我们要保持合一时，他知道教会中会有腐败。 When He’s praying for us and telling us to remain one, He knows about corruption in the Church.
他知道会有不配的主教和教宗，他知道这一切，他没有说 ，好吧，除非你真的不同意，那就去建立你自己的教会。 He knows about unworthy bishops and popes, and He knows all of that stuff, and He doesn’t say, Okay, unless you really disagree, then go form your own Church.
他完全没有这样说。 He doesn’t say that at all.
所以，这就是为什么我们相信无误性，因为这是协调圣经证据的唯一方式。 So, that’s why we believe in infallibility, because it’s the only way to harmonize the biblical evidence.
否则，你就会在真理和合一之间有这种张力，我想任 何诚实的新教徒都会告诉你他们经历过这种张力。 Otherwise, you have this tension between truth and unity, and I think any Protestant who’s being honest will tell you they’ve experienced that tension.
我们是要分裂，还是要保持合一而模糊这些分歧？ Do we break apart, or do we stay one and just kind of fudge the differences?
两者都不是。 Neither of those.
你不能为了真理放弃合一；也不能为了合一放弃真理。 You don’t choose truth over unity; you don’t choose unity over truth.
你要选择在真理中合一。 You choose unity in the truth.
这才是圣经真正的信息。 That’s the actual biblical message.
教宗的无误性，以及更广泛的教会无误性，让这一切变得合理。 Papal infallibility, and more broadly the infallibility of the Church, makes sense of that.
但请再次注意，它不涉及所有事情；它只涉及那些作为基督徒必须遵守的事情。 But notice again, it doesn’t touch on everything; it touches on those things that are put forward as binding upon us as Christians.
因为如果只是教宗随口说的话，如果他在接受采访时说了一些奇怪 的话，你可以说，我觉得那很模糊，令人困惑；也许我不同意。 Because if it’s just an offhand comment the Pope makes, if he’s doing an interview and he says something kind of weird, you can say, I think that’s vague, confusing; maybe I disagree with it.
我不会因此就离开教会。 I’m not out of the Church for that.
但如果我被要求相信某事，那么要么我被置于一个不可能的两难境地，必须在异端和 分裂之间选择，要么那事是真的，而我被要求相信它是因为它是福音真理的一部分。 But if I’m required to believe in a thing, then either I’ve been put into an impossible catch-22 of having to choose heresy or schism, or that thing is true, and the reason I’m being required to believe it is because it’s a true part of the Gospel.
好的，这是我想要澄清的第一件事，因为我认为这是一个很常见的误解。 Okay, that’s the first thing I wanted to clear up, because I think that’s a very common one.
我们现在要大转弯了，因为第二个谬见是认为天主教会反对性。 We’re going to shift gears pretty dramatically here because the second myth is this idea that the Catholic Church is anti-sex.
我们讨厌性，讨厌快乐，讨厌任何类似幸福的东西，对吧？ We hate sex, we hate pleasure, we hate anything like happiness, right?
好吧，有几件事你应该知道，这些会让你质疑这种看法。 Well, there are a few things you should know that make you kind of question that belief.
第一，我在上周的节目中实际上提到过，天主教徒——至少传统的天 主教徒，比如拉丁弥撒的天主教徒——他们说他们的生育率比任何主 要群体都高：比正统犹太教徒高，比摩门教徒高，比穆斯林高。 Number one, I mentioned this actually in last week’s episode, but Catholics—traditional Catholics anyway, like the Latin Mass Catholics—will say they have the highest birth rate of any major group: higher than Orthodox Jews, higher than Mormons, higher than Muslims.
虔诚的、实践的，特别是传统的天主教徒有着极高的生育率。 Devout, practicing, especially traditional Catholics have a tremendously high birth rate.
现在，我不知道你是否知道这是怎么发生的，但这显然与性有关。 Now, I don't know if you know how that happens, but it pretty clearly is tied to sex.
你不能一边说，为什么你们天主教徒讨厌性？ You can't simultaneously say, Why do you Catholics hate sex?
一边又有这么多孩子。 and have all these kids.
这两件事放在一起根本说不通。 Those two things don't really make sense together.
但更广泛地说，我们要说的是：性很重要，但它的重要性不仅仅在于它是一 种情感上有影响力或身体上愉悦的体验，还因为这是创造新生命的方式。 But more broadly, we just want to say this: sex is important, but it's important not just because it's an emotionally influential or physically pleasurable experience, but also because this is a way that new life is created.
所以，你不能只想着自己和自己的性欲，或者只想着你可能爱或渴望的那个人。 So, it's not enough that you just be thinking about yourself and your libido, or even about the person that maybe you love or maybe you lust for.
你还要想到可能会通过这种方式把孩子带到这个世界上来。 You also want to think about the fact that there may be children brought into the world through this.
对性采取严肃态度的健康方式是有道理的——不是因为它邪恶，而是因为它强大。 It makes sense for a healthy approach to sex to be one that treats it very seriously—not because it's evil, but because it's powerful.
现在，我想说，那么它与幸福的关系又如何呢？ Now, I want to say, what about the connection then to happiness?
我们真的就是讨厌性和幸福吗？ Do we just hate sex and happiness?
有趣的是，在这一点上实际上有大量数据，事实证明如果你听从 天主教会的教导，你会更幸福，实际上，你会有更好的性生活。 It’s funny because there’s actually a good amount of data on this point, and it turns out if you listen to the Catholic Church, you will be happier, and in fact, you will have a better sex life.
我知道人们不经常这么说，但这是真的，我们有数据支持。 I know people don’t often say that, but it is true, and we have data from this.
例如，在去年2023年的《性研究杂志》上，有一 篇文章叫做《英国的宗教性、性频率和性满意度》。 For instance, in the Journal of Sex Research from last year, 2023, there’s an article called Religiosity, Sex Frequency, and Sexual Satisfaction in Britain.
英国有更好的数据，但你也可以把这推广到其他国家。 Britain has better data, but you could extrapolate this to other countries as well.
更重要的是，就信仰实践而言，英国比美国要少一点——好吧，少很多——基督徒。 Also significantly, Britain is a little bit less—well, a good deal less—Christian in terms of devotional practice than the United States.
它也没有同样的清教徒传统，所以你可以预期，你在 这里听到的一切，在美国的例子中只会更加明显。 It also doesn't have the same kind of puritanical heritage, so you would expect that everything that you're going to hear here would be, if anything, more true in the U.S. example.
当我讲到一些数据和研究时，你会更好地理解这一点。 And you’ll see that a little better when I get into some of the data, some of the research.
那么，他们发现了什么？ So, what did they find?
研究人员有两个假设。 Well, the researchers had two hypotheses.
第一，他们怀疑有宗教信仰的人在婚姻之外的性行为会更少。 Number one, they suspected that religious people would have less sex outside of marriage.
结果证明这是对的。 Turns out that's true.
第二，他们假设有宗教信仰的人实际上会对他们的性生活更满意，结果证明这也是对的。 Number two, they hypothesized that religious people would actually be happier with their sex lives, and it turned out that's also true.
所以，正如他们所说，根据第一个假设，在单身、非同居的人群 中，越是虔诚的人与较少虔诚的同龄人相比，性行为频率越低。 So, as they put it, in accordance with our first hypothesis, among single, non-cohabiting individuals, the more religious had less frequent sex compared to their less religious peers.
是的，这很合理。 Yep, that makes sense.
如果你认为淫乱是错误的，你就不太可能像那些觉得淫乱没问题的人那样去做。 If you think it's wrong to fornicate, you're less likely to fornicate than someone who's like, I'm great with fornication.
但更令人惊讶的是，尽管如此，那些更重视宗教和宗教信仰的人报告说他们的满意度更高。 But the more surprising thing is, despite this, those who attributed greater importance to religion and religious beliefs reported higher satisfaction.
值得注意的是，这既包括幸福的已婚人士，也包括那些没有性生活但对此感到满意的人。 Notably, this includes both happy married people but also people who aren't having sex and are content with that.
这些都是单身人士，但他们不是非自愿独身者；他们不是被迫独身的。 These are single individuals, but they're not incels; they're not involuntarily celibate.
他们是自愿独身的，至少目前是这样。 They're voluntarily celibate, at least for the time being.
这些人也更幸福。 Those people are also happier.
所以，努力实践基督教性伦理的已婚或未婚者都更幸福，这在女性中尤其明显。 So, married or unmarried people who were striving to practice the Christian sexual ethic were happier, and this was especially true among women.
但我们发现，与此相反的是，对随意性行为或无爱性行 为的高度认可与男性和女性的性满意度都呈负相关。 But we find that the flip side to this is that higher approval of casual sex or sex without love was also found to be negatively associated with sexual satisfaction for both men and women.
所以，我们可以说：我们生活在一个普遍将性视为琐事，视为随意之事的文化中。 So, what we can say is this: we live in a culture that, broadly speaking, treats sex as something trivial, something we just do casually.
你几乎可以从任何电影，任何节目中都能强烈感受到这一点，因为这种娱 乐性的、耸人听闻的内容能吸引观众的眼球，能赚取观众的钱，对吧？ You can watch almost any movie, almost any show, and get a strong sense of that because that's the kind of entertaining, salacious content that keeps eyes on the screen and keeps moviegoer dollars, right?
就像是，性能卖钱。 Like, this is sex sells.
但这个能卖钱的信息并不是真的。 But that message that sells isn't true.
那种认为你可以出去过追求随意性行为的生活并 获得幸福的想法，从数据上来说是不真实的。 The idea that you can go out and just live a life of pursuing casual sex and be happy, we can say by the numbers isn't true.
再说一次，你不能把这归咎于清教徒的罪恶感，因 为这是英国，这里几乎没有什么清教徒的影响。 And again, you can't just blame that on puritan guilt because this is Great Britain, which has much less of any kind of puritanical influence.
相反，这就像是，不，不，世俗的自由性福音实际上是无法带来满足的。 Rather, it's like, No, no, the secular gospel of free sex is just actually unfulfilling.
现在，这实际上是一个更广泛趋势的一部分，就是宗教与人的痛苦 无关，相反，有宗教信仰的人比没有宗教信仰的同龄人更幸福。 Now, this is actually part of a broader trend, which is that religion is tied not to people being miserable, but actually being much happier than their non-religious peers.
皮尤研究中心在2019年对美国和其他几个国家进行了研究，以下是一些发 现：他们说超过三分之一的美国活跃信徒——36%——形容自己非常幸福， 相比之下只有四分之一的宗教不活跃者或无宗教信仰的美国人如此表示。 So, Pew Research looked at the U.S. and several other countries back in 2019, and here are some of the findings: they said more than a third of actively religious U.S. adults—36%—described themselves as very happy, compared with just a quarter of religiously inactive or religiously unaffiliated Americans.
这是一个相当大的差距。 That’s a pretty big gap.
所以，如果你想从25%上升到36%，你看到的是11% 的增长。从25%来说，多出的11%几乎是增加了一半。 So, if you think about going from 25% up to 36%, you’re looking at an increase of 11%. From 25%, 11 more than that is almost half as many more.
也许这个数学有点令人困惑，但如果你从群体角度思 考，不管怎样，你明白这些统计数据的意思，对吧？ Maybe that’s confusing math, but if you think about it in a group, well, anyway, you get the stats, right?
你理解这些数字是怎么回事。 You get the way these numbers work.
我不想给你更多令人困惑的数字，但重点是有统 计学上的显著差异表明有宗教信仰的人更幸福。 I don't want to give you more confusing numbers, but the point there is there's a statistically significant difference showing that religious people are happier.
现在，你可能会说，好吧，那只是美国的情况。不，在有数据的 其他25个国家中，在将近一半的国家里，活跃的宗教信徒报告 说他们比无宗教信仰者更幸福，而且差距具有统计学意义。 Now, you might say, Okay, that's just the U.S. No, across 25 other countries for which data is available, actively religious people report being happier than the unaffiliated by a statistically significant margin in almost half of the countries.
这不仅仅是更多而已；这个差距大到足以说明它在统计学上是显著的。 That’s not just more; that’s a big enough gap that they can say it’s statistically significant.
所以，这是一个很大的差距，而且在25个国家中 的9个国家里，他们比不活跃的宗教信徒更幸福。 So, a big gap, and they’re happier than inactive religious adults in nine of the 25 countries.
如果你想看看的话，你实际上可以在屏幕上看到这些数字，你会发现这是一个普遍的模式。 You can actually see the numbers there on the screen if you want to take a look at them, and you’ll find this is just an across-the-board sort of pattern.
更有趣的是，他们说在一些地方你看不到相同大小的 差距，但你确实看到了一个相当普遍的模式在显现。 It gets more interesting because they say the gaps are some of the places you don’t see the same size kind of gaps, but you do see a pretty common pattern emerging.
在某些情况下，这些差距真的很惊人。 In some cases, the gaps are really striking.
例如，在澳大利亚，45%的活跃宗教信徒说他们非常幸福，相比 之下只有32%的不活跃信徒和33%的无宗教信仰者这样说。 For instance, in Australia, 45% of actively religious adults say that they are very happy, compared to only 32% of inactive and 33% of unaffiliated religious people.
所以，积极信教能明显提升幸福感，这完全与教会憎恨快乐、憎恨幸福之类的说法相反。 So, there’s a marked happiness boost by being actively religious, which is totally contrary to the whole Church hates pleasure, Church hates happiness sort of thing.
不，教会是在向你展示一条通向更幸福、更满足的道路，包括对性生活更满意。 No, the Church is showing you a way to be happier and be more pleased, including being more pleased with your sex life.
显著的是，在他们研究的所有国家中，没有一个 国家的活跃宗教信徒明显比其他人更不幸福。 Strikingly, also, there’s not one country in all the countries they looked at in which actively religious people are significantly less happy than others.
再说一次，显著是指具有统计学意义的误差幅度。 Again, significantly meaning like statistically significant margins of error.
他们承认在许多国家差距并不大。 In many countries, they acknowledge there’s not much of a gap.
所以，基本上有两种情况：在一些地方，幸福感差距不明显；在 其他地方，包括美国和澳大利亚，存在相当大的幸福感差距。 So, you have basically two scenarios: in some places, there’s not a clear happiness gap; in other places, including the U.S. and Australia, there are these pretty big happiness gaps.
从来没有不幸福的差距。 There’s never an unhappiness gap.
从来没有一个地方显示虔诚的基督徒比世俗的同龄人更痛苦。 There’s never a place where being a devout Christian means you’re more miserable than your secular peer.
你要么和他们一样幸福，要么比他们更幸福，美国也是如此。所以，说教会 憎恨性快感或憎恨性或憎恨幸福的说法荒谬地错误，而且与数据完全相反。 You’re either about the same level of happy or you’re much happier, and that includes in the U.S. So, this myth that the Church hates sexual pleasure or hates sex or hates happiness is absurdly false and is quite contrary to the data.
说到数据，那么教会反科学的说法又如何呢？ Speaking of data, what about this idea that the Church is anti-science?
如果你接触过任何世俗群体，特别是无神论者或新无神论者群体，你很可能听过这 种说法：哦，你知道，这些只被信仰驱使的不讲理的教条主义者，他们憎恨理性。 If you’ve run in any kind of secular or especially like atheist or new atheist kind of crowds, there’s a good chance you’ve heard this: Oh, you know, these unreasonable dogmatists who are just driven by faith and they hate reason.
很可能，如果你追问他们，他们会指出天主教的一个具体例子。 And chances are, if you press people on this, they’ll point to exactly one concrete example from Catholics.
我是说，他们可能会提到一些像不接受进化论的福音派新 教徒之类的例子，但通常他们会指向一个例子：伽利略。 I mean, they might have some of like evangelical Protestants who don't like evolution or something like this, but usually they'll point to one example: Galileo.
我甚至不打算深入讨论伽利略审判的所有细节，或为什么它如此具有争议性和复杂性。 And I'm not even going to get into all of the details of the Galileo trial or why it's really controversial or complicated.
我只想说，用对一个科学家的所谓虐待来批评一个 拥有十亿信徒、有着两千年历史的机构是荒谬的。 I just want to say it's absurd to base a critique of a 2,000-year-old institution with a billion people on the alleged maltreatment of one scientist.
从那一件事就说，哦，教会反科学，这显然是从一个例子中得出的一个明显荒谬的概括。 To go from that to saying, Oh, the Church is anti-science, seems to be pretty obviously a demonstrably absurd generalization to draw from one example.
如果你的样本量只有一个，你不能从中得出太多结论。 If your sample size is one, you can't draw much from that.
让我们扩大样本量。 Let's broaden the sample size.
就现在，当我们暂时停留在天文学领域时，有3 3位耶稣会士的名字被用来命名月球陨石坑。 Right now, just while we stay in the realm of astronomy for a second, 33 Jesuits have lunar craters named after them.
这仅仅是耶稣会士，仅仅是耶稣会，而他们的名字被用来命名月球陨石坑。 That’s just the Jesuits, just the Society of Jesus, and they have lunar craters named after them.
为什么？ Why?
因为他们都是有影响力的神父科学家，特别是在天文学领域做出了如 此重大的贡献，以至于人们想用月球陨石坑来纪念他们，这很酷。 Because they were all influential priest-scientists who were so impactful in the field of astronomy specifically that they wanted to honor them with craters on the moon, which is pretty cool.
现在，你会发现不同的数字，因为在负责命名月球陨石坑的机构方 面存在差异，但就官方名称而言，大约有33个。有些人把数字定 得更高，达到40个；无论如何，33是我看到的最保守的数字。 Now, you’ll find different numbers on it because it turns out there are differences in terms of who’s in charge of naming lunar craters, but in terms of the official names, there are about 33. Some people put the number a little higher at 40; either way, 33 is the most conservative number I saw.
此外还有一个你可能不知道的超级奇特的事实：梵蒂冈拥有世界上最有影 响力的天文台之一：天主教会实际上投入了相当多的时间、金钱和研究， 以确保我们有更好的天文设备，并由这些杰出的神父科学家来运营。 Add to that the fact that the Vatican has one of the world’s most influential observatories, which is a super weird fact you may not know: the Catholic Church has actually invested a fair amount of time, money, and research into making sure we have better astronomical equipment and has run this with these brilliant priest-scientists.
不过，这只是因为伽利略的缘故，我们才谈到天文学。 Today, that’s just astronomy, though, because of Galileo.
但如果你扩大范围说，其他领域又如何呢？ But if you broaden that and say, What about other fields?
你有像遗传学这样的领域，顺便说一下，这是由一位天主教神父格雷戈尔·孟德尔创立的。 You have fields like genetics, which was, oh by the way, a field founded by a Catholic priest, Gregor Mendel.
或者你有大爆炸宇宙学；大爆炸理论最先是由一位天主教神父 乔治·勒梅特蒙席提出的，我确信我没有把他的名字读准。 Or you have Big Bang cosmology; the Big Bang was proposed first by a Catholic priest, Monsignor Georges Lemaître, whose name I’m sure I’m butchering.
他是一位比利时天主教神父，是爱因斯坦的同时代人，某种程度上也是他的同行。 He was a Belgian Catholic priest and a contemporary and kind of peer of Albert Einstein.
不过，这并不是什么新鲜事。 And this is nothing new, though.
你往回追溯，会发现一个关于身体的有趣小知识：有一个身体部位是以一 位天主教神父的名字命名的，而这个部位是任何天主教神父都没有的。 You go back a ways, and there’s a little bit of weird body trivia: there’s one part of the body named after a Catholic priest, and it’s a part of the body no Catholic priest has.
这就是输卵管。 It’s the fallopian tube.
输卵管是以发现它们的天主教神父命名的；他是一位解剖学家， 叫法洛皮奥或法洛皮乌斯，取决于你用哪种语言说他的名字。 The fallopian tubes are so named after the Catholic priest who discovered them; he was an anatomist, Fallopio, or Fallopius, depending on which language you use for his name.
所以，重点是教会有这样一个长期的学术传统，不仅接受 科学，而且在许多情况下发明和开创了整个科学领域。 So, the point is there’s this long-standing academic tradition where the Church has not only embraced science but, in many cases, invented entire fields of science and pioneered them.
不仅如此，更具讽刺意味的是，几乎所有主要的老牌大学都是宗教性的。 Not only that, but the grand irony of this is that almost all of the major older universities are religious ones.
在美国，这通常是像哈佛和耶鲁这样的新教大学，但特别是如果你 去欧洲看看最初的大学，这些无一例外都是由天主教会创立的。 Now, in the U.S., that was often Protestant universities like Harvard and Yale, but especially if you go into Europe and look at the original universities, these were without exception founded by the Catholic Church.
在《中世纪科学、技术和医学百科全书》中，迈克尔·申克在关于大学 的文章中指出，当我们谈论大学时，对于一所特定的摩洛哥伊斯兰学校 是否应该算作大学存在一些争议，因为它更像是一所伊斯兰研究学校。 In the Encyclopedia of Medieval Science, Technology, and Medicine, Michael Schenk, in the article on universities, points out that when we talk about universities, there’s some dispute about one particular Moroccan madrasa and whether that should count as a university or not because it was like an Islamic school of studies.
但大多数人不把它算在内，所以他们会说巴黎大学，它成立于1200年左右。有 些人把时间定得稍晚一些，比如1208年到1215年；具体时间并不重要。 But most people don’t count it, and so they’ll say the University of Paris, which was founded around the year 1200. Some people put that slightly later, like 1208 to 1215; it doesn’t matter.
这显然是一所中世纪天主教高等学府。 It’s clearly a medieval Catholic institution of higher learning.
重要的是，当主教和大学校长发生争执时，大学校长会越过主教直接向教宗申诉。 Significantly, when the bishop and the chancellor of the university would get into fights, the head of the university would appeal to the Pope over the bishop’s head.
这帮助创造了一个先例，教宗实际上在为学术自由而战，使其免受地方主教的干预。 This helped create a sort of precedent where the Pope was actually fighting for academic freedom from the meddling of the local bishop.
正如申克指出的，巴黎大学的教师们在教廷的帮助下经常获胜。 As Schenk points out, the masters of the University of Paris often won with the aid of the papacy.
这不仅适用于对抗巴黎主教，也适用于对抗博洛尼亚公社。 This wasn’t just true against the Bishop of Paris but also against the Commune of Bologna.
所以，这创造了这个重要的先例。 So, this created this important precedent.
具有讽刺意味的是，即使我们的学术自由概念，也来自于教廷为确保大学保 持自治、自我管理的机构而斗争的事实，尽管它们也是正式的教会机构。 Even our concept of academic freedom, ironically, comes from the fact that the papacy was fighting to make sure that the universities remained autonomous, self-regulating bodies, even though they were also officially clerical institutions.
他们不希望地方主教，无论他有什么偏见和盲点，对此有过多的影响。 They didn’t want the local bishop, with whatever his biases and blinders may be, to have an excessive amount of influence on that.
那么，这一切是从哪里来的？ So, where is all this coming from?
天主教会在科学领域做了几个世纪的先驱，这仅仅是巧合吗？ Is it just a coincidence that the Catholic Church has been such a pioneer in the sciences for literally centuries?
不，这来自于一种特殊的世界观——一种并非所有宗教都认同的世界观。 No, it’s coming out of a particular way of viewing the world—a view of the world that not every religion shares.
这被教宗圣若望保禄二世在通谕《信仰与理性》中很好地表达了，他写道：信仰与理性就像 两只翅膀，承载人类精神上升到真理的默观，而神在人心中放置了认识真理的渴望——换句 话说，就是认识他自己——这样，通过认识和爱慕神，男女也能达到关于自己的圆满真理。 It’s captured really well by Pope St. John Paul II in the encyclical Fides et Ratio, which means Faith and Reason, in which he writes, Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth, and God has placed in the human heart a desire to know the truth—in a word, to know Himself—so that by knowing and loving God, men and women may also come to the fullness of truth about themselves.
所以，这就是这个理念：我们相信信仰和理性是 通向更深入理解神、现实和我们自己的途径。 So, that’s the idea: we believe faith and reason are paths to a deeper understanding of God, reality, and ourselves.
如果你持有这种观点——这也是天主教会一直以来的教导——那么你认真 对待大学的理念，认真对待理性的理念，认真对待科学就是很有道理的。 If you have that view—and this is what the Catholic Church has always taught—then it makes sense that you’re going to take the idea of the university very seriously, that you’re going to take the idea of reason very seriously, and that you’re going to take the sciences very seriously.
所以，仅仅因为伽利略卷入了教会政治斗争，就忽视了数百年来创建西方大学和 开创整个科学领域的历史，然后说，哦，教会反科学，这种说法简直不准确。 So, this idea that because Galileo got into a church politics fight, therefore we just ignore all of those hundreds and hundreds of years of history of literally creating the Western university and pioneering entire fields of science, and say, Oh, the Church is anti-science, is simply not accurate.
这是从一个例子中得出的荒谬推论。 It is an absurd extrapolation from one example.
好的，我现在要从我从无神论者那里听到的谬见转向我从新教徒那里听到的谬见。 Okay, I'm going to move now from myths that I hear more from atheists to now myths that I hear more from Protestants.
其中最主要的，这是我们清单上的第四个，就是认为天主教在圣经中添加了书卷。 Chief among those, this is going to be number four on our list, is the idea that Catholics added books to the Bible.
这明显是不真实的。 This is demonstrably untrue.
确实，天主教圣经中有七本书是新教圣经中没有的。 It's true there are seven books in the Catholic Bible that are not in the Protestant Bible.
这些都是旧约书卷。 These are all Old Testament books.
新教经常声称天主教会在1500年代中期添加了这些书卷，这是不真实的。 It's not true that the Catholic Church added those in the mid-1500s, as the Protestant claim often goes.
相反，我们可以看到，早在397年，第三次迦 太基会议就描述了哪些书卷被认为是正典圣经。 Rather, we can see, for instance, back in the year 397, the Third Council of Carthage describing which books are considered canonical scripture.
如果你读它的旧约清单，其中就有这些有争议的书卷。 If you read its Old Testament list, it has the disputed books.
现在，你可能会说，好吧，第三次迦太基会议？ Now, you might say, Well, the Third Council of Carthage?
那不是大公会议；那是一个北非地区性的会议。 That’s not an ecumenical council; that’s a regional North African council.
不过确实是一个有影响力的会议，因为圣奥古斯丁在那里。 True, it’s an influential one, though, because St. Augustine is there.
这也表明这显然不是对宗教改革的回应。 It also points out that this clearly wasn’t a response to the Reformation.
显然，在公元300年代就有基督徒确信这73本书是圣经的书卷。 Clearly, you have Christians in the 300s who are convinced these 73 books are the books of the Bible.
这不是16世纪对新教的回应；这是早期基督教。 That’s not some 16th-century response to Protestantism; that’s early Christianity.
它不一定要是大公会议。 It doesn’t have to be an ecumenical council.
尽管如此，在特伦托会议之前的中世纪，确实有一个大公会议再 次涉及这个问题，而新教徒有时声称这些书卷是在那时添加的。 Nonetheless, you do have an ecumenical council in the Middle Ages that jumps in on it again before the Council of Trent, when Protestants will sometimes claim the books were added.
1442年的佛罗伦萨会议，大约在马丁·路德出生前 40年，有一个所谓的《与科普特教会联合诏书》。 The Council of Florence in 1442, about 40 years before Martin Luther was even born, has what’s called a Bull of Union with the Copts.
这里有点背景：天主教会正试图与东正教和科普特教会重新联合 ，他们必须确保达成一致的事情之一就是哪些书卷属于圣经。 So, a little bit of context: the Catholic Church is trying to reunite with the Eastern Orthodox and the Coptic Church, and one of the things they’re having to make sure they agree on is which books belong in the Bible.
所以，他们列出了哪些书卷属于圣经，看啊，正是我 们今天在天主教圣经中发现的完全相同的73本书。 So, they list which books belong in the Bible, and lo and behold, it’s the exact same 73 books that we find in Catholic Bibles today.
它与新教的清单不符。 It doesn’t match the Protestant list.
所以，实际上是新教改革者删除了七本书。 So, instead, the Protestant reformers removed seven books.
无论你认为他们这样做是对是错，至少让我们对事实诚实：这73 本书在地方和大公层面都得到承认，而且不仅仅是天主教徒承认。 Whether you think they were right or wrong to do it, at least let’s be honest about the facts: these 73 books were recognized at both a local and an ecumenical level, and not just by Catholics.
我们发现东正教和天主教方面的代表都在说同样的话。 We find representatives from the Orthodox and the Catholic side saying the same thing.
我们没有发现任何人在那里说，实际上只有66本。不是的。那么，发生了什么？ We don’t find anybody there saying, Actually, there are just 66. No. So, what happened?
格雷格·萨拉查在新教杂志《桌边谈话》的一篇文章中主张，新教徒与新约作 者站在同一立场，认为只有那些在原始希伯来正典中的书卷才有正典权威。 Greg Salazar, in an article in the Protestant magazine Table Talk, argues that Protestants stand with the New Testament writers in affirming that only those books that were in the original Hebrew canon have canonical authority.
现在，我已经做了几期关于这个话题的节目，所 以我不会过分深入细节，但你应该知道两件事。 Now, I’ve already done a couple of episodes on this topic, so I’m not going to get super in the weeds, but you should know two things.
第一，在基督时代并没有一个统一的希伯来正典。 Number one, there isn’t an organized Hebrew canon at the time of Christ.
不同的犹太团体有不同的认为属于圣经的书卷，事实上，如果你读犹太法典 ，你会看到在基督之后的几百年里，关于哪些书属于或不属于圣经的争论。 Different Jewish groups have different books that they think belong in the Bible, and in fact, if you read the Jewish Talmud, you’ll see debates about which books do and don’t belong in the Bible for literally hundreds of years after the time of Christ.
这是第一点。 So, that’s the first point.
第二，事实上早期基督徒，包括新约作者，并不认为我们必须局限于希伯来文旧约。 Second, the early Christians did not, in fact, including the New Testament writers, believe that we were tied to the Hebrew Old Testament.
我们怎么知道这一点？ How do we know that?
因为他们绝大多数引用的是希腊文旧约，其中包括现在新教徒拒绝的那些书卷。 Because overwhelmingly, they quoted from the Greek Old Testament, which included the books that Protestants now reject.
有时候，这些差异会造成很大的不同。 And at times, these differences make a big difference.
让我给你举个例子：在希伯来书第10章，第5节引用的关于道成肉身 的预言之一说，当基督到世上来的时候，他说：「祭物和礼物是你不愿 意的，你曾给我预备了身体。」你可能会说，他在那里引用的是什么？ So, just to give you one example: in Hebrews chapter 10, one of the prophecies about the Incarnation quoted in verse 5 states that when Christ came into the world, He said, Sacrifices and offerings Thou hast not desired, but a body hast Thou prepared for Me. You might say, What’s He quoting there?
他引用的是希腊文版本的诗篇40篇第6节。问题是这句话 在萨拉查声称新约作者相信的希伯来文版本中是找不到的。 Well, He’s quoting the Greek version of Psalm 40, verse 6. The problem is that line is not found in the Hebrew version that Salazar claims is the one the New Testament authors believe in.
在希伯来文版本中，它说：「祭物和礼物是你不愿意的，你已经开通我的耳朵。」 In the Hebrew version, it says, Sacrifice and offering Thou didst not desire, but Thou hast given me an open ear.
现在，耶稣确实完全顺服天父，但他来到世上似乎是对他道成肉身的预言。 Now, it’s true Jesus is totally obedient to the Father, but His coming into the world seems to be a prediction of His Incarnation.
希伯来书第10章的引文只在希腊文版本中找到，有很多类似的地方，当希腊 文和希伯来文之间有实际差异时，希腊文版本是首选，有时这差异非常重要。 The quote in Hebrews 10 is only found in the Greek version, and there are plenty of places that are like that where the Greek is preferred when there’s an actual difference between the Greek and Hebrew, and at times it matters quite a bit.
记住，在当时，直到基督时代圣经仍在写作中。 At the time, remember, Scripture is still being written until the time of Christ.
新约时代的人没有理由认为，哦，圣经写作的时代结束了。 There’s no reason that the people in the New Testament would have thought, Oh, well, the time of Scripture is over.
它并没有结束；这就是为什么会有新约。 It wasn’t over; that’s why there’s a New Testament.
所以，认为他们只相信希伯来正典中的书卷的想法是双重错误的。 So, this idea that, Oh no, they just believed in the books that were in the Hebrew canon, is doubly false.
他们使用希腊文版本，而且当时并没有统一的希伯来正典。 They used the Greek, and there was no organized Hebrew canon at the time.
好的，这是第四个谬见。 Okay, so that’s the fourth myth.
第五个是认为天主教徒崇拜圣母玛利亚。 The fifth is the idea that Catholics worship Mary.
如果你和反对天主教的新教徒交谈，这是经常出现的话题，我甚至 听到一些善意的新教徒这样问，那么，你们为什么崇拜玛利亚？ If you’ve talked to Protestants objecting to Catholicism, this is something that comes up a lot, and I even hear it from well-meaning Protestants who are like, So, why do you guys worship Mary?
答案是，我们不崇拜她。但要理解这一点，你必须知道许多现 代基督徒已经忽略的一个圣经区分：祈祷和崇拜不是一回事。 And the answer is, we don’t. But to understand this, you have to know a biblical distinction that many modern Christians have lost: prayer and worship are not the same thing.
我们怎么知道这一点？ How do we know this?
我们从新约中知道这一点。 We know it from the New Testament.
例如，在路加福音18章，耶稣提醒我们应当常常祷告。 For instance, in Luke 18, Jesus reminds us that we ought always to pray.
我们在哪里祷告？ Where do we pray?
在任何地方，在所有地方。 Anywhere and everywhere.
在耶稣的时代这是真实的，每个人都知道这一点。 That was true in Jesus' day, and everybody knew that.
法利赛人在街角祷告；他们在会堂里祷告；他们做这一切事。 The Pharisees are out there praying on the street corners; they’re praying in the synagogues; they’re doing all that stuff.
耶稣在马太福音第6章批评他们——不是因为他们必须 在某个特定地点，而是因为他们故意选择公共场所。 And Jesus actually criticizes them in Matthew 6 for that—not because they had to be in a certain location, but because they’re purposely choosing public places.
但如果你应该在任何地方和所有地方祷告，那敬拜又如何呢？ But if you’re supposed to pray anywhere and everywhere, what about worship?
从与撒玛利亚妇人的对话中很清楚地看出，敬拜是一件不同的事，它有特定的地点。 Well, it’s very clear from this conversation with the Samaritan woman that worship is something distinct and it has a certain place.
在当时，那个地方是耶路撒冷的圣殿。 At the time, that place was the temple in Jerusalem.
撒玛利亚妇人问他说，我们的祖宗在这山上敬拜，基 利心山，你们倒说，应当敬拜的地方是在耶路撒冷。 The Samaritan woman asks Him, she says, Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, Mount Gerizim, and you say that in Jerusalem is a place for men not to worship.
所以，当然那里指的是耶路撒冷的圣殿。 So, the temple in Jerusalem is what’s meant there, of course.
所以，注意我们不必深入所有细节；祷告和敬拜这两件事之间显然有区别。 So, notice we don’t have to get into all of the weeds here; there’s clearly a difference between this thing called prayer and this thing called worship.
所以，如果你说，哦，天主教徒向玛利亚祷告；因此 ，他们崇拜她，你就混淆了一个重要的圣经区分。 So, if you say, Oh, Catholics pray to Mary; therefore, they worship her, you’re conflating an important biblical distinction.
敬拜可以包括祷告，但祷告不自动等同于敬拜。 Worship can include prayer, but prayer is not automatically worship.
我们可以从另一个角度看到，祷告是交谈；祷告是说话；是请求。 Another way we can see that is that prayer is conversation; prayer is speaking; it’s requests.
敬拜是向神献上某些东西：崇敬，特别是牺牲或奉献。 Worship is giving something to God: adoration and particularly sacrifice or offering.
是向神献上的奉献。 It’s the offering of something to God.
在启示录，在启示录22章，我经常听到这段经文被用来反对天主 教徒，你知道，哦，说我们据称崇拜天使或圣人，玛利亚，等等。 In the Book of Revelation, in Revelation 22, I often hear this passage used against Catholics who, you know, oh, we allegedly worship angels or saints, Mary, whatever.
他们会说，难道你不知道在启示录22章天使告诉约翰不要敬拜他吗？ They’ll say, Well, don’t you know in Revelation 22 the angel tells John not to worship him?
确实，这是真的。 And sure enough, that’s true.
约翰谈到他看见了这令人难以置信的天上的启示，然后他俯伏在天使脚前要拜他。 John talks about having seen this incredible heavenly revelation, and then he falls down to worship at the feet of the angel.
天使对他说，千万不可这样。 The angel says to him, You must not do that.
我与你和你的弟兄众先知，并那些守这书上言语的人，同是作仆人的。 I am a fellow servant with you and your brethren the prophets and with those who keep the words of this book.
要敬拜神。 Worship God.
很好！ Great!
所以，我们应该只敬拜神。 So, we should only worship God.
但注意在前21章中，约翰一直在与天使进行相当长时间的对 话，而天使并没有说，哇，你不能和我说话；只能和神说话。 But notice in the prior 21 chapters, John had been having a pretty protracted conversation with an angel, and the angel doesn’t say, Whoa, you’re not allowed to talk to me; only talk to God.
不，显然和天使说话是可以的；向天使请求事情是可以的。 No, it’s clearly okay to talk to the angel; it’s okay to ask things of the angel.
不可以敬拜他。 It’s not okay to worship him.
现在，你在生活中就知道这一点。 Now, you know this with people in your life.
你可以去请求一位基督徒弟兄祷告，没有人会指责你拜偶像。 You can go to a brother Christian for prayers, and no one’s accusing you of idolatry.
哦，为什么你觉得你必须去找那个偶像杰瑞？ Oh, why do you think you have to go to that idol, Jerry?
为什么不直接去找神呢？ Why don’t you just go directly to God?
如果他们这么说，那就太荒谬了。 And if they do say that, they’re ridiculous.
我们知道去找某人和敬拜他们之间是有区别的。 We know there’s a difference between going to somebody and worshiping them.
好吧，如果这对地上的其他人是真实的，而且正如我们在启示录中看到的， 对天使也是真实的，那么对于在天堂中与神同在的其他人类也是真实的。 Well, if that’s true of other human beings here on Earth, and it’s true, as we see in the Book of Revelation, of angels, it’s also true of other human beings in heaven who are in the presence of God.
这并不构成偶像崇拜。 That doesn’t make it idolatry.
让我们继续谈敬拜的主题。 Let’s keep on the theme of worship.
第六个谬见是天主教徒崇拜偶像，因为毕竟我们有宗教雕像。 The sixth myth is that Catholics worship idols because, after all, we have religious statues.
这种想法是，好吧，这就像异教徒所做的。 The idea is, okay, this is just like what pagans were doing.
现在，暂且不说这可能在多方面误解了异教。 Now, leave aside the number of ways this might misunderstand paganism.
这对我们的目的来说并不重要；让我们就指出宗教图像不是偶像崇拜这个事实。 It doesn’t matter for our purposes; let’s just call out the fact that religious imagery is not idolatry.
在圣经中有一个很大的区别。 There’s a huge distinction biblically.
我们怎么知道这一点？ How do we know that?
有很多例子。 Plenty of places.
首先，再说一次，什么是敬拜：不是仅仅拥有一个图像的问题；而是崇拜一个图像。 First of all, again, this idea of what is worship: it’s not just a matter of having an image; it’s worshiping an image.
拥有图像不仅在圣经中是被允许的；有时甚至是圣经所命令的。 Having an image is not just biblically permitted; it’s even biblically commanded at times.
例如，在出埃及记25章，神说要在约柜施恩座前制造两个金基路伯。 For instance, in Exodus 25, God says to make two cherubim of gold before the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant.
现在，有时你会听到人们说，好吧，那是可以的因为是神命令的。 Now, occasionally you’ll have people say, Well, that’s okay because God commanded it.
好吧，看，如果这是偶像崇拜，神就不能命令偶像崇拜而不命令邪恶。 Well, look, if it’s idolatry, God can’t command idolatry without commanding evil.
所以，很明显，在约柜前敬拜神时，在两个巨大的金天使像前俯伏并不是偶像崇拜。 So, clearly, it’s not idolatry just to have two giant golden statues of angels that people are bowing down in front of as they worship before God in the Ark of the Covenant.
而且，这不是一个孤立的例子。 But moreover, this is not a stand-alone kind of example.
所罗门建造第一座圣殿时，并没有被告知这些就是你被允许拥有的确切图像。 Solomon, when he’s building the first temple, is not told these are exactly the images you’re allowed to have.
相反，列王纪上6:29说，他在内外殿的四围墙上都雕刻了基路伯、棕树和初开的花。 Instead, 1 Kings 6:29 says that he carved all the walls of the house round about with carved figures of cherubim and palm trees and open flowers in the inner and outer rooms.
这里有具象艺术，包括基路伯的艺术。 There’s representational art, including art of the cherubim.
再次说明，这似乎是可以的。 Again, this is seemingly okay.
圣保禄在新约中对加拉太人说：「无知的加拉太人哪！」 St. Paul in the New Testament says to the Galatians, O foolish Galatians!
谁迷惑了你们呢？耶稣基督钉十字架，已经活画在你们眼前。 Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
现在，这是一句神秘的话。 Now, it’s a mysterious line.
我们不知道这是如何呈现在他们眼前的；他们显然没有亲眼目睹耶稣的实际钉十字架。 We don’t know how this was depicted before their eyes; they clearly weren’t present at Jesus' literal crucifixion.
所以，他是在含糊地比喻性地说，还是在说他以某种方式向加 拉太人可见地展示了钉十字架的场景，这是他字面上在说的？ So, is he speaking just vaguely and metaphorically, or is he saying that somehow he visibly represented the crucifixion to the Galatians, which is what he literally is saying?
无论如何，似乎很清楚他并不认为在人们眼前描绘被钉十字架的耶稣基督 是偶像崇拜，否则他就是在声称自己是个制造偶像的人，而他显然不是。 Either way, it seems pretty clear that he’s not of the view that depicting Jesus Christ as crucified before someone’s eyes would be an act of idolatry, or else he’s claiming to be an idol maker, which he was not.
要点是仅仅拥有图像并不是罪。 The point there is that the mere presence of images is not sinful.
仅仅拥有宗教图像并不是罪。 The mere presence of religious images is not sinful.
崇拜图像才是罪。 Worshiping images is sinful.
现在，你可能会说，好吧，我们不是应该避免所有图像，以防导致崇拜吗？ Now, you might say, Well, shouldn’t we avoid all images in case it leads to worship?
但是看，你可以崇拜任何东西。 But look, you can worship anything.
你可以崇拜另一个人，你回顾历史就会看到人们做过崇拜皇帝这样的事。 You could worship another human being, and you go back in history and see that people did things like worship the emperor.
这并不意味着我们必须摆脱我们的邻居，因为我可能会崇拜他。 That doesn’t mean we have to get rid of our neighbor because I could potentially worship him.
这完全说不通。 It doesn’t follow at all.
教会一贯的教导是，宗教图像实际上可以帮助我们集中思想，引导我们默想神。 The continual teaching of the Church is that religious imagery can actually help us focus the mind and lead to our contemplation of God.
好的，现在是第七个也是最后一个常见的谬见：认为在天主教 中你应该通过善功拯救自己，特别是通过与信仰无关的善功。 All right, and now for the seventh and final common myth: this idea that in Catholicism you’re supposed to save yourself through good works, and particularly through good works apart from faith.
你必须做够多的事来赚取与神的关系。 You’ve got to do enough to kind of earn a relationship with God.
这是大错特错的；这是异端。 That is terribly wrong; that is heretical.
这是天主教会实际上一再谴责的事情。 That’s something the Catholic Church has actually condemned over and over again.
例如，在特伦托会议中，我们被特别警告说，确实，圣经中确实把很多归于善功。 For instance, in the Council of Trent, we’re specifically warned that sure, it’s true that much is attributed to good works in Scripture.
如果你实际上在读新约时不带着唯独因信的镜片，那么你会 注意到基督做出了很多似乎表明善工会得到报酬的应许。 If you’re actually reading the New Testament without a lens that says faith alone, then you’ll notice that Christ makes a lot of promises that seem to indicate that works will be rewarded.
如果你把一杯凉水给这些最小的一个喝，你不会失去你的赏赐。 That if you give a drink of cold water to one of the least of these, you won’t lose your reward.
善功确实被应许了某些东西。 Something is being promised to good works.
然而，特伦托会议警告说，但愿基督徒不要将荣耀归于自己而不归于主， 主对所有人的恩惠如此之大，以至于他要使自己的恩赐成为他们的功德。 Nevertheless, the Council of Trent warns, God forbid that a Christian should either trust their glory in himself and not in the Lord, whose bounty towards all men is so great that He will have the things which are His own gifts be their merits.
换句话说，即使当你因做好事而得到神的赏赐时，也不要认为这是因为 你独立于神之外的功劳，因为你所做的一切只是回应神给你的恩典。 In other words, even when you’re being rewarded by God for doing something good, don’t think this is because of you apart from God, because all you’ve done is respond to the graces God has given you.
所以，在这一切中，你都无法离开恩典独自工作。 So, in none of this are you able to work apart from grace alone.
这就是简单的事实。 That’s simply the truth of it.
无论我们谈论信仰还是谈论善功，这都是源于神的恩典。 Whether we’re talking about faith or whether we’re talking about good works, this is flowing from divine grace.
你能够相信只是因着恩典，你能够行任何善功也只是因着恩典。 It is only by grace that you’re able to believe, and it’s only by grace that you’re able to do any good works.
所以，你没有夸口的根据；你没有信靠自己的根据。 So, you have no basis for boasting; you’ve got no basis for trusting in yourself.
这不是特伦托会议说的什么新东西。 This isn’t some new thing the Council of Trent was saying.
如果你追溯到——这是另一个地区性会议——529年的奥兰治会议，它回 应伯拉纠主义的方式之一就是重申你不能认为神在等待我们愿意被洁净罪， 因为相反，即使我们要被洁净的意愿也是通过圣灵的注入和工作而来的。 If you go all the way back to—it's another one of these regional councils—but the Council of Orange in 529, one of the ways it’s responding to Pelagianism is by reiterating that you cannot maintain that God awaits our will to be cleansed from sin, because instead, even our will to be cleansed comes to us through the infusion and working of the Holy Spirit.
所以，即使当你说，你知道吗？ So, even when you say, You know what?
我要去与神建立关系；我要主动与神接触，你能形 成这个想法只是因为神已经把它放在你里面了。 I’m going to go be in relationship with God; I’m going to initiate contact with God, you can only form that thought because God has already put it in you.
神永远是主动的那一位。 God is always the one who initiates.
神总是那位促动的；他总是那位赐予恩典的，甚至包括回应他促动所需的恩典。 God is always the one who prompts; He’s always the one who gives you the graces, even the graces necessary to respond to His prompting.
对此的一个引证，我认为是很好的一个，是腓立比书2:13，其中圣保 禄提醒我们，神在你们心里运行，为要成就他的美意，使你们立志行事。 One of the citations for this, which I think is an excellent one, is Philippians 2:13, in which St. Paul reminds us that God is at work in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
所以，无论是你的意愿还是行动，这一切都来自神。 So, whether it’s your desire or your action, all of that is coming from God.
所以，认为我们必须主动的想法不仅是异端；而且是不可能的。 So, this idea that we have to initiate is not just heretical; it’s impossible.
只有神能主动建立联系。 Only God can initiate contact.
确实我们在回应中有角色，确实神应许要赏赐那个，但 即使我们的回应也只是因为他的神圣主动才成为可能。 It’s true we have a role in responding, and it’s true God promises to reward that, but even our response is only made possible because of His divine initiative.
好的，我知道这一期因为主题的性质，内容很分散。 Okay, I know this one, by nature of the topic, is all over the place.
有七个不同的主题，我相信还有更多我们本可以探讨的误解和谬见。 There are seven different subjects, and I’m sure there are many more misconceptions and myths that we could have explored.
但我在这里的目标，回到雷克斯的例子，是要确保我们 不会说一些关于天主教的怪异和疯狂的事情而苦恼。 But my goal here, to go back to Rex, is to make sure that we’re not saying weird and crazy things that we’re struggling with about Catholicism.
例如这些：看，神父，我觉得你对我不够坦白。 For instance, these ones: Look, Father, I don’t think you’re being straight with me.
我想加入你的教会，我也会加入你的教会，但你隐瞒了太多。 I want to join your Church, and I’m going to join your Church, but you’re holding too much back.
你说隐瞒太多是什么意思？ What do you mean, holding too much back?
我和一个天主教徒谈了很久，一个非常虔诚和有学问的人，我学到了一两件事。 I’ve had a long talk with a Catholic, a very pious and well-educated one, and I’ve learned a thing or two.
比如说，你必须脚朝东睡觉，因为那是天堂的方向 ，这样如果你在夜里死了，你就可以走到那里。 For instance, you have to sleep with your feet pointing east because that’s the direction of heaven, so if you die in the night, you can walk there.
现在，我会让我的脚朝任何朱莉娅觉得合适的方向 睡觉，但你期望一个成年人相信走到天堂的事吗？ Now, I’ll sleep with my feet pointing any way that suits Julia, but do you expect a grown man to believe about walking to heaven?
那个让自己的一匹马当枢机主教的教宗又是怎么回事？ And what about the Pope who made one of his horses a cardinal?
还有你们在教堂门廊里的那个盒子，如果你把写着某人名字的 一英镑钞票放进去，他们就会被送到地狱，这又是怎么回事？ And what about the box you have in the church porch where if you put a pound note with somebody’s name on it, they get sent to hell?
马丁先生，我不是说这一切可能没有好理由，但你应该告诉我这些。 Mr. Martin, I’m not saying there may not be a good reason for all this, but you ought to tell me about it.
现在，让我自己去查明真相。 Now, let me go and find out for myself.
他可能是在和谁说话？ Who can he have been talking to?
他是在做梦吗？ Did he dream it all?
科迪莉娅，怎么回事？ Cordelia, what’s the matter?
真是个傻瓜！ What a chump!
多么光荣的傻瓜！ What a glorious chump!
科迪莉娅，是你干的！ Cordelia, it was you!
哦，妈妈，谁能相信他会相信这些？ Oh, Mummy, who would have believed that he would have swallowed it?
我还告诉他很多其他的事，比如梵蒂冈的神圣猴子之类的事情。 I told him such a lot besides about sacred monkeys in the Vatican and all kinds of things.
所以，简而言之，梵蒂冈没有神圣猴子。 So, in short, there are no sacred monkeys in the Vatican.
你不会因为朝东而死就能走到天堂。 You can't walk away to heaven if you die facing east.
你今天听到的这七个误解都是常见的，但都不是真的。 The seven misconceptions that you heard today are common misconceptions that just aren't true.
我不想让你成为傻瓜；我不想让你被关于天主教会的谎言欺骗， 我也不想让你基于真理之外的任何事情来接受或拒绝天主教。 I don't want you to be a chump; I don't want you to be duped by lies about the Catholic Church, and I don't want you to accept or reject Catholicism on the basis of anything other than the truth.
这里是《无耻教皇党》，我是乔·赫施迈尔。 For Shameless Popery, I'm Joe Heschmeyer.
愿神保佑你。 God bless you.