- start: 0.401
  end: 4.704
  speaker: barron
  en: There's a great scene in the Old Testament where the Israelites are doing battle.
  zh: 旧约中有一个精彩的场景：以色列人正在征战。
- start: 4.704
  end: 7.506
  speaker: barron
  en: So, the young guys, the soldiers, are out doing battle.
  zh: 年轻的小伙子们，也就是那些士兵们，正在前线作战。
- start: 7.566
  end: 13.09
  speaker: barron
  en: Then, up on the hillside is Moses, and he has his arms up like this, invoking the aid of God.
  zh: 然后，山坡上站着摩西，他像这样举起双臂，向神祈求帮助。
- start: 13.09
  end: 16.573
  speaker: barron
  en: And then, when his arms get tired, his friends come and they hold up his arms.
  zh: 等到他手臂疲累时，他的朋友就来帮他托起手臂。
- start: 16.573
  end: 18.394
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, it's a great image of the Church.
  zh: 嗯，这就是一个教会的极好画面。
- start: 18.394
  end: 25.64
  speaker: barron
  en: There's the kind of fighting Church out there that's in the trenches doing the work of social justice and everything else, caring for the poor and the hungry.
  zh: 在外头有那种在战壕里奋斗的教会，从事社会正义和各种事务，照顾穷人和饥饿的人。
- start: 25.64
  end: 31.877
  speaker: barron
  en: But then, they're supported by prayer, and then the prayers are supported by people that make their life possible.
  zh: 但是，他们有祈祷的支持，而祈祷又由那些使他们生活得以维持的人来支援。
- start: 31.877
  end: 36.76
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of those who contribute to religious communities and to monasteries and all that.
  zh: 想一想那些对修会、修道院等等有所奉献的人。
- start: 36.76
  end: 42.063
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, they're the people holding up the arms of the prayers, who in turn make the work of the army possible.
  zh: 嗯，他们就是托住祈祷之手的人，而这些祈祷又使军队的工作成为可能。
- start: 42.063
  end: 43.804
  speaker: barron
  en: That's a great image for the Church.
  zh: 这就是一个对教会的极佳比喻。
- start: 143.219
  end: 158.343
  speaker: barron
  en: How strange that we believe in the Church.
  zh: 我们竟然相信教会，这真是奇妙。
- start: 159.784
  end: 165.705
  speaker: barron
  en: In the Creed, we state our belief in the one God who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and that seems reasonable enough.
  zh: 在信经里，我们宣认对那位独一的神——圣父、圣子、圣灵的信仰，这似乎相当合理。
- start: 166.006
  end: 171.915
  speaker: barron
  en: 'But then we also say this: We believe in one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.'
  zh: 但我们也这样说：我们相信独一、圣洁、大公、使徒的教会。
- start: 171.915
  end: 176.658
  speaker: barron
  en: Isn't that an odd, even blasphemous mixing of the Creator and the creature?
  zh: 这难道不是一种怪异，甚至亵渎的，把造物主与受造物混为一谈吗？
- start: 176.658
  end: 179.78
  speaker: barron
  en: How could you believe in a human institution?
  zh: 你怎么能相信一个人为的机构呢？
- start: 183.243
  end: 189.327
  speaker: barron
  en: 'The whole point is this: The Church is not simply a human institution.'
  zh: 关键在于：教会并非只是一个人为的机构。
- start: 189.587
  end: 193.83
  speaker: barron
  en: The Church is, as Vatican II said, a sacrament of Jesus.
  zh: 教会正如梵蒂冈第二届大公会议所言，是耶稣的圣事。
- start: 197.506
  end: 201.928
  speaker: barron
  en: That means it shares in the very being, life, and energy of Christ.
  zh: 也就是说，它分有基督本身的存在、生命和能量。
- start: 202.808
  end: 210.031
  speaker: barron
  en: Or, in that inexhaustibly rich metaphor of St. Paul, the Church is the Body of Jesus.
  zh: 或者，用圣保罗那取之不尽的丰富比喻来说，教会就是耶稣的身体。
- start: 210.791
  end: 216.173
  speaker: barron
  en: That's just an institution, not an organization, not a collectivity of like-minded people.
  zh: 那只是一种制度，不是一个组织，也不是由志同道合的人所组成的集体。
- start: 216.674
  end: 223.396
  speaker: barron
  en: The Church is an organism made up of interdependent cells and molecules and organs.
  zh: 教会是一个由彼此互赖的细胞、分子和器官所构成的生物体。
- start: 223.757
  end: 230.819
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Think of those wonderful organic images that Jesus uses all the time: I am the vine, and you are the branches.'
  zh: 想想耶稣常用的那些美妙有机图像：「我是葡萄树，你们是枝子。」
- start: 230.819
  end: 233.14
  speaker: barron
  en: Remain in me, live in me.
  zh: 「常在我里面，活在我里面。」
- start: 233.861
  end: 236.923
  speaker: barron
  en: Eat my body and drink my blood.
  zh: 「吃我的肉，喝我的血。」
- start: 239.606
  end: 242.208
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, I could be a great admirer of Abraham Lincoln.
  zh: 我也可能非常崇拜亚伯拉罕·林肯。
- start: 242.208
  end: 245.009
  speaker: barron
  en: I could even join the Abraham Lincoln Society.
  zh: 我甚至可以加入亚伯拉罕·林肯协会。
- start: 245.61
  end: 249.332
  speaker: barron
  en: I'd never be tempted for a minute to eat the body and drink the blood of Lincoln.
  zh: 但我绝不会一刻想去吃林肯的身体、喝林肯的血。
- start: 249.533
  end: 252.335
  speaker: barron
  en: I could admire Gandhi; I could join the Gandhi Society.
  zh: 我也可以敬佩甘地，也能加入甘地协会。
- start: 252.335
  end: 255.237
  speaker: barron
  en: I'd never be tempted to be grafted onto Gandhi.
  zh: 我绝不会想要被接枝到甘地身上。
- start: 255.237
  end: 260.882
  speaker: barron
  en: But we say just those radical things about our relationship to Jesus.
  zh: 然而，我们对自己与耶稣的关系却说出了如此激进的话语。
- start: 261.763
  end: 264.285
  speaker: barron
  en: Two great biblical images come to mind here.
  zh: 在这里，我想起了两个出自圣经的伟大图像。
- start: 264.625
  end: 267.507
  speaker: barron
  en: One is from the 25th chapter of Matthew's Gospel.
  zh: 其一出自马太福音第25章。
- start: 268.228
  end: 274.473
  speaker: barron
  en: Jesus says, Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, you do to me.
  zh: 耶稣说：「你们既作在我这弟兄中一个最小的身上，就是作在我身上了。」
- start: 274.473
  end: 287.303
  speaker: barron
  en: He's not simply saying when you feed the hungry and give drink to the thirsty, you're doing something ethically praiseworthy.
  zh: 他并不只是说，当你们喂养饥饿的人、给口渴的人水喝时，你们就做了一件在道德上值得称赞的事。
- start: 287.679
  end: 289.76
  speaker: barron
  en: He's saying you're doing something for me.
  zh: 他是说，你们是在为我做这事。
- start: 289.76
  end: 297.824
  speaker: barron
  en: He's not simply saying when you fail to do those things, you're doing something ethically blameworthy.
  zh: 他也并不只是说，当你们不去做这些事时，你们就是在道德上犯了过错。
- start: 297.824
  end: 300.605
  speaker: barron
  en: He's saying you fail to do something to me.
  zh: 他是在说，你们对于我没有尽到责任。
- start: 300.605
  end: 305.667
  speaker: barron
  en: That's how intimate the connection is between Christ and his mystical body, the Church.
  zh: 这正显示了基督与祂奥妙身体——教会之间的联系是何等亲密。
- start: 308.709
  end: 319.658
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Or in the Acts of the Apostles, when we hear about the conversion of Saul, Saul hears the voice: Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?'
  zh: 或者在使徒行传中，当我们听到扫罗归主的故事时，扫罗听见有声音说：「扫罗！扫罗！你为什么逼迫我？」
- start: 320.639
  end: 326.222
  speaker: barron
  en: Saul was going to persecute the Church of Jesus, the disciples, the followers of Jesus, but Jesus didn't say that.
  zh: 扫罗原本要逼迫耶稣的教会、那些门徒和追随者，但耶稣并没有那样说。
- start: 326.222
  end: 328.924
  speaker: barron
  en: He said, Why are you persecuting me?
  zh: 祂却说：「你为什么逼迫我？」
- start: 329.184
  end: 334.407
  speaker: barron
  en: Again, how close the identification between Christ and his mystical body.
  zh: 再次可见，基督与祂奥妙身体的关系是多么紧密。
- start: 335.548
  end: 338.87
  speaker: barron
  en: I’m standing here in the great Church of San Clemente in Rome.
  zh: 我现在站在罗马的圣革利免大教堂里。
- start: 338.91
  end: 341.712
  speaker: barron
  en: Behind me is a 12th-century mosaic.
  zh: 在我身后，是一幅十二世纪的马赛克镶嵌画。
- start: 341.712
  end: 348.436
  speaker: barron
  en: 'I think it’s the most beautiful depiction of what I’m talking about: this mystical, organic quality of the Church.'
  zh: 我认为这是对我所说的教会那种奥妙、有机特质最美的描绘。
- start: 348.936
  end: 350.437
  speaker: barron
  en: See the cross of Christ.
  zh: 看那基督的十字架。
- start: 350.818
  end: 356.823
  speaker: barron
  en: On it are the twelve doves, symbolic of the twelve apostles, who will go out with the message of Christ to all the world.
  zh: 上面有十二只鸽子，象征着十二使徒，他们将带着基督的信息传遍全世界。
- start: 356.823
  end: 365.73
  speaker: barron
  en: But then look, growing from the cross, swirling around the cross, all those vines, branches, and leaves—all that life.
  zh: 再看，从十字架向外生长，又缠绕在十字架周围的这些藤蔓、枝条和叶子——那都是生命。
- start: 365.73
  end: 369.392
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the organism of the mystical body of Jesus.
  zh: 那就是耶稣奥妙身体所构成的生机体。
- start: 369.392
  end: 372.895
  speaker: barron
  en: That's all the people joined to Christ across the ages.
  zh: 那代表历世历代与基督联结在一起的所有人。
- start: 373.436
  end: 386.797
  speaker: barron
  en: And if I can press that natural metaphor, the Church is meant to gather not just the people of the world; it's meant, in some mystical way, to gather all of creation, all of nature, around the energy of Christ.
  zh: 如果我继续延伸这个自然的比喻，教会不只是要汇聚世上所有的人，而是要以某种奥秘的方式，把所有受造物、整个自然都凝聚在基督的能量中。
- start: 386.797
  end: 405.901
  speaker: barron
  en: 'St. Joan of Arc, at her trial, was being interrogated, and she said this about Jesus Christ and the Church: I know this: they are simply one thing, and we shouldn''t complicate the matter.'
  zh: 圣女贞德在受审时，被人问及耶稣基督和教会的事，她说：「我知道这一点：他们只是同一回事，我们不该把问题复杂化。」
- start: 413.791
  end: 417.174
  speaker: barron
  en: The Church is not a club; it's an organism.
  zh: 教会不是一个俱乐部；它是一个生命体。
- start: 417.315
  end: 421.099
  speaker: barron
  en: So, all of us who are baptized are connected to each other like cells in a body.
  zh: 因此，所有领受了洗礼的人都像身体里的细胞那样彼此相连。
- start: 421.235
  end: 427.059
  speaker: barron
  en: And so, if we're the mystical body, then when someone's getting kicked around, that hurts me; that affects me.
  zh: 所以，如果我们是奥妙的身体，当有人被欺侮时，我也会受到伤害，也会因此受影响。
- start: 427.059
  end: 430.08
  speaker: barron
  en: I can't say that's your problem; it has to be our problem.
  zh: 我不能说那是你的问题；那必须是我们共同的问题。
- start: 430.08
  end: 432.482
  speaker: barron
  en: The Eucharist is the mystical body.
  zh: 圣餐就是这奥妙的身体。
- start: 432.482
  end: 435.023
  speaker: barron
  en: The Eucharist is the sacrament of the mystical body.
  zh: 圣餐是这奥妙身体的圣事。
- start: 435.023
  end: 441.187
  speaker: barron
  en: Therefore, receiving the Eucharist makes you more attuned to these disruptions of justice.
  zh: 因此，领受圣餐会让你对那些破坏正义的情形更加敏感。
- start: 441.227
  end: 445.893
  speaker: barron
  en: Not just symbolically, when you receive the Eucharist.
  zh: 不只是象征意义上，当你领受圣餐时也是如此。
- start: 445.893
  end: 448.856
  speaker: barron
  en: No, no, the Eucharist is the real presence of Jesus.
  zh: 不，不，圣餐是真实的耶稣临在。
- start: 448.876
  end: 454.501
  speaker: barron
  en: And that's why when you eat and drink the body and blood of Christ, you're becoming conformed to His body and blood.
  zh: 这就是为什么当你吃喝基督的身体和宝血时，你就与祂的身体和宝血渐渐合而为一。
- start: 454.501
  end: 461.988
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, you're becoming more integrated into the mystical body, and therefore the Eucharist should give you a heightened sense of justice.
  zh: 也就是说，你更加被纳入那奥妙的身体，因此，圣餐会带给你更强烈的正义感。
- start: 462.008
  end: 465.772
  speaker: barron
  en: And that's what you see in Dorothy Day very clearly.
  zh: 在多萝西·戴身上，你就能非常清楚地看见这一点。
- start: 465.772
  end: 472.052
  speaker: barron
  en: She spent a lot of time in front of the Blessed Sacrament, a lot of time at Mass, a lot of time at Benedictions and retreats.
  zh: 她常常花许多时间在至圣圣体前，也常常参加弥撒、降福礼和各种退省活动。
- start: 472.052
  end: 477.717
  speaker: barron
  en: And then her life was this radical commitment to the poor and to nonviolence and to ending war and all that.
  zh: 然后她就以极其彻底的方式投入贫困者的需要，致力于非暴力和结束战争等行动。
- start: 477.837
  end: 479.359
  speaker: barron
  en: It's perfectly congruent.
  zh: 这与她的信仰完全相符。
- start: 479.359
  end: 483.682
  speaker: barron
  en: The more time you spend with the Eucharist, the more time you're going to be devoted to justice.
  zh: 你和圣餐相处的时间越多，你在正义上投入的精力也会越多。
- start: 483.803
  end: 487.306
  speaker: barron
  en: I don't think most realize or think of that when they go up to Communion.
  zh: 我想大多数人领受共融时，并没有意识到或想到这一点。
- start: 487.306
  end: 489.468
  speaker: barron
  en: No, probably not, and that's a tragedy.
  zh: 是啊，可能没有，这真是个遗憾。
- start: 489.468
  end: 496.221
  speaker: barron
  en: But I agree with Godfrey Diekmann, who was actually a figure at Vatican II. He was an American Benedictine.
  zh: 但我同意戈弗雷·迪克曼的话，他在梵蒂冈第二届大公会议上颇有影响力，是一位美国本笃会士。
- start: 496.221
  end: 501.264
  speaker: barron
  en: He said the thing we lost sight of after the Council was the idea of the mystical body.
  zh: 他说，梵二会议之后，我们遗忘了的正是奥妙身体的观念。
- start: 501.344
  end: 505.806
  speaker: barron
  en: And prior to the Council, lots of the leading theologians had a lot to say about it.
  zh: 而在那次会议之前，很多重要的神学家都对这点作了许多论述。
- start: 505.806
  end: 510.848
  speaker: barron
  en: And that's why from the Mass comes social justice; social justice returns to the Mass.
  zh: 这就是为什么从弥撒里会衍生社会正义，而社会正义也回归到弥撒当中。
- start: 510.848
  end: 512.389
  speaker: barron
  en: Those two are always linked.
  zh: 这两者始终是紧密相连的。
- start: 528.291
  end: 533.854
  speaker: barron
  en: God is a great gathering force; God Himself is a community of love.
  zh: 神是一股伟大的聚合力量；神本身就是一个爱的团体。
- start: 534.395
  end: 539.578
  speaker: barron
  en: And through the act of creation, all things are linked through God to one another.
  zh: 借由创造之举，万物在神里彼此相连。
- start: 540.499
  end: 544.921
  speaker: barron
  en: What is opposed to God is a power of dissolution and division.
  zh: 与神相对立的，就是那种分裂与离散的势力。
- start: 546.442
  end: 552.125
  speaker: barron
  en: God's response to sin was to engage in a great act of gathering.
  zh: 神对罪的回应，就是展开伟大的聚集行动。
- start: 552.986
  end: 566.108
  speaker: barron
  en: The means He chose was the formation of a people He called Abraham, and through him He called the people Israel, making them distinctive, unique, peculiarly His own.
  zh: 祂所拣选的方式，就是召唤一个祂所称呼的亚伯拉罕，并且借着他召唤以色列民，使他们与众不同、独特，成为祂所独有的子民。
- start: 566.769
  end: 573.293
  speaker: barron
  en: He gave them laws, rituals, covenants, liturgies—a form of life meant to be pleasing to God.
  zh: 祂赐给他们律法、礼仪、约以及敬拜形式——这些生活方式是要讨神喜悦的。
- start: 574.534
  end: 584.08
  speaker: barron
  en: None of it was for the glorification of Israel, but rather that Israel might be the magnet by which the whole world would be gathered eventually unto God.
  zh: 这一切都不是为了彰显以色列自己，而是要让以色列成为磁铁，最终把全世界带向神。
- start: 585.652
  end: 594.674
  speaker: barron
  en: Jesus was the culmination of God’s plan, the fulfillment of Israel, the perfection of law, covenant, prophecy, and liturgy.
  zh: 耶稣是神计划的巅峰，是以色列的成全，也是律法、约、先知预言与礼仪的圆满。
- start: 595.195
  end: 601.316
  speaker: barron
  en: He was Israel at its finest, and therefore He was the supreme divine magnet.
  zh: 祂是在最完美状态下的以色列，因此也成为那至高无上的属神磁力。
- start: 602.297
  end: 608.998
  speaker: barron
  en: We hear in the Gospel of John, when the Son of Man is lifted up, He will draw all people to Himself.
  zh: 我们在约翰福音中听到：「我若从地上被举起来，就要吸引万人来归我。」
- start: 610.019
  end: 614.86
  speaker: barron
  en: And so, Jesus gathered a people; He formed the Church.
  zh: 于是，耶稣聚拢一群人；祂建立了教会。
- start: 617.614
  end: 638.605
  speaker: barron
  en: Outside of Caesarea Philippi, Jesus said to Simon, You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church.
  zh: 在该撒利亚腓立比城外，耶稣对西门说：「你是彼得，我要把我的教会建造在这磐石上。」
- start: 640.606
  end: 643.708
  speaker: barron
  en: The word used there for Church in the Greek is ekklesia.
  zh: 在希腊文里，那里用作「教会」的字是「ekklesia」。
- start: 643.708
  end: 650.077
  speaker: barron
  en: It comes from two other words, ek- and kaleo, meaning to call out.
  zh: 它组合自另两个字根「ek-」和「kaleo」，意思是「召唤出来」。
- start: 651.739
  end: 657.283
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Therefore, when considering the Church, we have to ask three basic questions: Who does the calling?'
  zh: 因此，当我们思考教会时，必须问三个基本问题：是谁在召唤？
- start: 658.945
  end: 661.226
  speaker: barron
  en: What are we being called out from?
  zh: 我们是从什么地方被召唤出来？
- start: 662.308
  end: 664.77
  speaker: barron
  en: And what are we being called into?
  zh: 又是被召唤进入何处？
- start: 676.391
  end: 682.193
  speaker: barron
  en: In our common Western view of things, we join organizations; we decide what we want to belong to.
  zh: 在我们一般西方的观点里，我们加入团体，是由我们自己决定想要归于何处。
- start: 682.193
  end: 686.115
  speaker: barron
  en: That really isn't true of a Church.
  zh: 但对于教会而言并非如此。
- start: 687.695
  end: 690.616
  speaker: barron
  en: In a Church, someone else calls us.
  zh: 在教会当中，是他人来呼唤我们。
- start: 690.676
  end: 694.978
  speaker: barron
  en: We are claimed and summoned, branded by Christ.
  zh: 我们被基督所拥有、所召唤，也被祂的印记所标记。
- start: 697.559
  end: 700.72
  speaker: barron
  en: Paul says, I am the slave of Christ Jesus.
  zh: 保罗说：「我是基督耶稣的仆人。」
- start: 701.361
  end: 702.961
  speaker: barron
  en: So, Christ does the calling.
  zh: 所以，是基督在那里呼唤我们。
- start: 703.481
  end: 705.442
  speaker: barron
  en: What are we called out from?
  zh: 那么，我们又是从什么里被召唤出来？
- start: 706.155
  end: 714.62
  speaker: barron
  en: We're called out from what the Bible terms the world, what St. Augustine called the region of unlikeness.
  zh: 我们被召唤出来，脱离圣经所称的「世界」，也就是奥古斯丁所说的「不相似之地带」。
- start: 714.62
  end: 723.105
  speaker: barron
  en: This means that whole realm of sin, of hatred and violence, and of corruption and self-absorption—that's the world we’re being called out from.
  zh: 这包含整个充满罪恶、仇恨、暴力、腐败与自我中心的领域——那正是我们被召唤离开的世界。
- start: 723.105
  end: 726.727
  speaker: barron
  en: And what are we being called into?
  zh: 那么，我们被召唤进入哪里？
- start: 727.247
  end: 734.151
  speaker: barron
  en: We’re being called into the life of Christ, into God’s way of being.
  zh: 我们是被召唤进入基督的生命，进入神的生活方式。
- start: 743.001
  end: 747.263
  speaker: barron
  en: This idea is beautifully exemplified in stone and glass right behind me.
  zh: 这一概念在我身后由石头和玻璃所构筑的景象中得到极美的体现。
- start: 747.263
  end: 752.126
  speaker: barron
  en: Doesn't Notre Dame look for all the world like a mighty ship moving along the fence?
  zh: 你看，圣母院不是活像一艘沿着围栏前行的巨大船只吗？
- start: 752.126
  end: 755.767
  speaker: barron
  en: The flying buttresses coming out the side a bit like oars.
  zh: 那些从侧面伸出的扶壁，就好像船桨一样。
- start: 755.768
  end: 760.09
  speaker: barron
  en: And again, this is not accidental; the Church is meant to look like a great ship.
  zh: 这并非偶然设计；教会本来就被想象成一艘巨船。
- start: 760.09
  end: 768.854
  speaker: barron
  en: The idea is that as long as we stay within its life, we find a place of haven and safety, even in the midst of the stormy world.
  zh: 其用意是，只要我们留在这艘大船的生命里，即使世界风雨交加，我们也能找到避风港和安全之所。
- start: 769.034
  end: 770.815
  speaker: barron
  en: But remember the story of Noah.
  zh: 但请记得挪亚的故事。
- start: 770.815
  end: 775.084
  speaker: barron
  en: The idea is not to stay hunkered down behind the walls of the ark.
  zh: 这故事的重点不是让人一直龟缩在方舟的墙壁后。
- start: 775.205
  end: 780.668
  speaker: barron
  en: Rather, the moment he was able, Noah let the life out for the transformation of the world.
  zh: 相反地，等到时机成熟，挪亚便让那生命出方舟，以改变整个世界。
- start: 780.909
  end: 789.655
  speaker: barron
  en: So, in the Church, we live the life of God's beautiful community within the Church, but we're not meant to remain hunkered down behind its walls.
  zh: 同样地，在教会里，我们活在神所造的美丽社群当中，可是我们不该一直缩在教会的围墙之内。
- start: 789.655
  end: 793.878
  speaker: barron
  en: Rather, we go out from the Church now to transform the world.
  zh: 反之，我们要从教会出发，去转化这个世界。
- start: 816.758
  end: 823.7
  speaker: barron
  en: Consider the example of Pope John Paul II. Young Karol Wojtyla came here to Krakow, to the Jagiellonian University.
  zh: 想想教宗若望保禄二世的例子：年轻的卡罗尔·沃伊蒂瓦来到这里的克拉科夫，在雅盖隆大学就学。
- start: 823.7
  end: 830.823
  speaker: barron
  en: At the age of 19, he commenced his studies in September of 1939, the very moment when the Nazis invaded Poland.
  zh: 他十九岁时，在一九三九年九月开始上学，也正是纳粹入侵波兰的时刻。
- start: 831.363
  end: 838.145
  speaker: barron
  en: The invaders almost immediately decapitated Polish society; they imprisoned or killed off the Polish intelligentsia.
  zh: 侵略者几乎立刻斩断了波兰社会的头脑；他们监禁或处决波兰的知识分子阶层。
- start: 850.188
  end: 851.729
  speaker: barron
  en: What did Karol Wojtyla do?
  zh: 卡罗尔·沃伊蒂瓦做了什么？
- start: 852.149
  end: 857.213
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, he hunkered down; he joined the underground seminary of Cardinal Sapieha.
  zh: 他选择隐蔽下来，加入了萨皮耶哈枢机地下神学院。
- start: 857.293
  end: 863.597
  speaker: barron
  en: But he also gathered together with a small group of friends; they called themselves the Rhapsodic Theater.
  zh: 但他同时也和一小群朋友聚在一起，他们自称为朗诵剧团。
- start: 865.018
  end: 872.503
  speaker: barron
  en: Behind closed doors and shuttered windows, they recited the great works of Polish poetry, literature, and drama.
  zh: 在紧闭的门窗后，他们朗诵波兰的诗歌、文学和戏剧的经典作品。
- start: 876.106
  end: 885.871
  speaker: barron
  en: But they were doing much more than preserving Polish literature because ingrained in those texts was the Catholic faith.
  zh: 然而，他们不只是保存波兰的文艺，因为这些文本中浸透着公教信仰。
- start: 887.392
  end: 894.755
  speaker: barron
  en: They were preserving those ideas about God, human dignity, and the freedom of the human person.
  zh: 他们也在保留关于神、人性尊严以及人之自由的思想。
- start: 898.177
  end: 905.54
  speaker: barron
  en: When the war ended, the Nazis were succeeded by the communists, and young Father Wojtyla was forced once again to hunker down.
  zh: 战争结束后，纳粹被共产主义政权所取代，年轻的沃伊蒂瓦神父又一次被迫隐蔽。
- start: 906.001
  end: 908.862
  speaker: barron
  en: He gathered around him small groups of students.
  zh: 他身边聚拢了一小群学生。
- start: 909.073
  end: 915.534
  speaker: barron
  en: He taught them in classrooms, but also in the fields and woods around here on kayaking and hiking trips.
  zh: 他不仅在教室里教导他们，也在这里的田野和林间，在划船和徒步旅行时教育他们。
- start: 915.854
  end: 922.335
  speaker: barron
  en: He formed them in Catholic spirituality, in the traditions of Catholic prayer and Catholic theology.
  zh: 他以公教灵修、公教祈祷的传统和公教神学来培育他们。
- start: 922.335
  end: 925.076
  speaker: barron
  en: He shared with them the treasures of the tradition.
  zh: 他与他们分享了这传统所蕴藏的宝藏。
- start: 925.936
  end: 943.299
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Then the propitious moment arrived: that young priest, now come of age as Pope John Paul II, returned here to Poland, and he then unleashed the life that he had preserved in his great speeches and sermons.'
  zh: 随后，机运来临：那年轻的司祭，如今已成为教宗若望保禄二世，回到波兰来，借着他伟大的演讲和讲道，释放出自己所保存的生命力。
- start: 943.299
  end: 948.282
  speaker: barron
  en: He spoke the truths of God, of human life, of human rights and freedom.
  zh: 他宣讲了关于神、人类生命、人权与自由的真理。
- start: 948.563
  end: 951.864
  speaker: barron
  en: It's as though he gave a signal to those young people he had formed.
  zh: 就好像他向那些被他培育的年轻人发出了一个信号。
- start: 952.465
  end: 957.148
  speaker: barron
  en: They were now come of age as journalists, teachers, writers, and business people.
  zh: 他们现在已经长大成人，成为记者、教师、作家和商人。
- start: 957.228
  end: 962.551
  speaker: barron
  en: He said, Let what you have learned now invade the society.
  zh: 他说：「把你们所学的一切，现在带到社会去。」
- start: 962.812
  end: 968.235
  speaker: barron
  en: And we saw the effect that it had; it transfigured not only Poland but eventually the world.
  zh: 我们也看到了那个行动的影响；它不仅改变了波兰，也最终影响了全世界。
- start: 972.847
  end: 984.393
  speaker: barron
  en: Just like Noah, who hunkered down on the ark during a time of the flood, but then when the moment arrived, allowed that life to be released for the transfiguration of the world.
  zh: 这正如挪亚在大洪水期间待在方舟里，等到时机到来，就让那生命之力得以涌出，以改变整个世界。
- start: 984.393
  end: 992.316
  speaker: barron
  en: So, John Paul II hunkered down, yes, but we're never meant to crouch defensively behind our walls.
  zh: 所以，若望保禄二世曾经隐蔽自己，是的，但我们绝不是要永远躲在墙后自我防卫。
- start: 993.577
  end: 997.919
  speaker: barron
  en: We're meant to flood the world with the life that we preserved.
  zh: 我们被召唤要用我们所保存的生命去充满整个世界。
- start: 998.72
  end: 1001.97
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the task; that's the mission of a Church.
  zh: 这就是任务，也正是教会的使命。
- start: 1026.82
  end: 1042.853
  speaker: barron
  en: 'According to the Creed, the Church has four basic marks or characteristics: the Church is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.'
  zh: 按照信经所言，教会有四个基本特质：教会是独一、圣洁、大公、使徒的。
- start: 1043.354
  end: 1049.419
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Let''s take the first one first: the Church is one because God is one.'
  zh: 我们先说第一个：教会是独一的，因为神是独一的。
- start: 1050.199
  end: 1059.726
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Go back to the sixth chapter of the Book of Deuteronomy, and you find this great prayer: Hear, O Israel: The Lord your God is Lord alone.'
  zh: 回到申命记第六章，你会发现那个伟大的祷文：「以色列啊，你要听！耶和华―我们神，是独一的主。」
- start: 1059.827
  end: 1061.528
  speaker: barron
  en: That’s called the Shema.
  zh: 这被称为「示玛」。
- start: 1061.668
  end: 1066.652
  speaker: barron
  en: It sums up that great monotheistic belief of the biblical Jews.
  zh: 它总结了圣经时代犹太人所持守的伟大一神信仰。
- start: 1067.513
  end: 1077.621
  speaker: barron
  en: 'There’s a Christian version of the Shema; it’s the very first line of the Creed: Credo in unum Deum, I believe in one God.'
  zh: 基督徒也有自己的示玛；这正是信经的第一句话：「Credo in unum Deum，我信独一的神」。
- start: 1079.042
  end: 1094.954
  speaker: barron
  en: Joseph Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI, has commented that both the Shema and the Credo are subversive statements because when we say we believe in one God, we are disempowering all other false claimants to deity.
  zh: 约瑟·拉辛格，也就是教宗本笃十六世，曾经评论说，无论是示玛还是信经都带有颠覆性，因为当我们说「我信独一的神」时，我们就废除了其他所有虚假的神性主张。
- start: 1095.695
  end: 1104.66
  speaker: barron
  en: We’re saying that no president, no prime minister, no culture, no country, no ideology is God; there’s only one God.
  zh: 我们是在说，没有任何总统、首相、文化、国家或意识形态是神；只有独一的神。
- start: 1104.66
  end: 1112.922
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, the Church is the vehicle by which the one God wants to draw all people to unity with Himself.
  zh: 那么，教会就是那位独一的神用来使所有人归于与祂合一的工具。
- start: 1113.963
  end: 1122.386
  speaker: barron
  en: That’s why Jesus prayed at the Last Supper, Father, that they might be one, as you and I are one.
  zh: 这就是耶稣在最后的晚餐时所祈求的：「使他们都合而为一。正如你父在我里面，我在你里面。」
- start: 1124.127
  end: 1130.349
  speaker: barron
  en: Now I realize, especially for us today, this stress on unity can seem problematic.
  zh: 我知道，尤其对今天的我们来说，这种对于合一的强调，可能会显得棘手。
- start: 1130.83
  end: 1136.432
  speaker: barron
  en: We've seen the danger of excessive unity; it’s totalitarianism.
  zh: 我们也都看过过度追求统一的危险，那就是极权主义。
- start: 1136.488
  end: 1143.771
  speaker: barron
  en: In fact, in the terrible ideologies of the last century, we saw this dark, destructive side of the call to unity.
  zh: 实际上，在上个世纪那些可怕的意识形态中，我们就看到了对合一呼召当中那黑暗、破坏性的一面。
- start: 1144.732
  end: 1152.595
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, the Church throughout the ages, at its best, has had a very creative way of dealing with this problem, and it has to do with Jesus.
  zh: 然而，教会在历代的最佳状态下，都有一个非常有创意的方式来应对这个问题，而这与耶稣本人密切相关。
- start: 1153.576
  end: 1163.376
  speaker: barron
  en: Jesus is not simply one figure among many, not one prophet in a long line of prophets; He is Himself the very Logos of God.
  zh: 耶稣并不是众多人当中的一个角色，也不是众多先知当中的一员；祂本身就是神的道。
- start: 1163.376
  end: 1167.957
  speaker: barron
  en: That means the very mind of God by which God fashioned the universe.
  zh: 也就是说，祂就是神所用来造天地万物的心意本身。
- start: 1169.658
  end: 1178.861
  speaker: barron
  en: Therefore, whatever is true, good, and beautiful in nature or culture can find a connection to Christ.
  zh: 因此，自然或文化中一切真、善、美的事物，都能够与基督相联结。
- start: 1179.341
  end: 1184.543
  speaker: barron
  en: All that is good and true and beautiful in nature or culture can be drawn to Him.
  zh: 所有自然或文化中美好、真实与善的元素，都能被吸引归向祂。
- start: 1186.284
  end: 1196.733
  speaker: barron
  en: We’re standing here in the Pantheon, the most perfectly preserved of the ancient buildings of Rome, and for my money, one of the most beautiful covered spaces in the world.
  zh: 我们现在所在的是万神殿，它是罗马古建中保存最完好的建筑之一，而且在我看来，也是全世界最美的穹顶空间之一。
- start: 1197.353
  end: 1210.556
  speaker: barron
  en: Pantheon—the temple to all the gods—see how beautifully it sums up the genius of paganism, that reverence for the necessities and rhythms of nature.
  zh: 「万神殿」乃是祭拜众神的殿宇——你看它如何以美妙的形式展现那异教精神对自然规律与节奏的敬畏。
- start: 1211.616
  end: 1219.137
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, the Church was able to assimilate this great space; it’s now a church of St. Mary of the Martyrs.
  zh: 而教会能够同化并利用这座伟大的殿堂；它如今已成了圣殉道者马利亚堂。
- start: 1219.878
  end: 1224.889
  speaker: barron
  en: The Church was able to assimilate to itself the best of the pagan culture.
  zh: 教会有能力将异教文化中最优良的部分吸收进自身。
- start: 1226.13
  end: 1230.974
  speaker: barron
  en: This calls to mind what Origen did, what Augustine did, what Ambrose did.
  zh: 这让我想起了俄利根、奥古斯丁与安波罗修所做的事情。
- start: 1230.974
  end: 1233.555
  speaker: barron
  en: They used the work of Plato in their theology.
  zh: 他们在神学中运用了柏拉图的思想。
- start: 1236.938
  end: 1245.364
  speaker: barron
  en: It speaks to me of what Thomas Aquinas did when he used the philosophy of Aristotle in his theology, when he used the work of the Jewish scholar Moses Maimonides.
  zh: 这也使我想到圣托马斯阿奎那，他在神学中运用了亚里士多德的哲学，也参考了犹太学者摩西·迈蒙尼德的著作。
- start: 1246.185
  end: 1254.182
  speaker: barron
  en: 'It calls to mind what Vatican II said: that there are rays of light, elements of truth, in all the great religions of the world.'
  zh: 也使我联想到梵蒂冈第二届大公会议所说的：世界上所有伟大的宗教中，都有一些真理的光辉。
- start: 1255.343
  end: 1270.148
  speaker: barron
  en: Newman said the Church has the power of assimilation, like a healthy organism that is able to move into its environment, holding off what it must but assimilating to itself what it can.
  zh: 纽曼说，教会拥有同化的力量，就像一个健康的生命体，能进入周遭环境，将必须排斥的部分排除，却把可以吸收的纳入自身。
- start: 1271.228
  end: 1279.151
  speaker: barron
  en: So, the Church, at its best down through the ages, draws all that is good and true and beautiful into its own unity.
  zh: 因此，教会在历代最好的时候，都会把所有真、善、美的事物都汇入它的合一之中。
- start: 1280.014
  end: 1289.478
  speaker: barron
  en: The oneness of the Church is not a crushing totalitarian oneness; rather, it is an assimilating and living unity.
  zh: 教会的独一并非那种压迫式的极权统一，而是一种能吸收、能活化的合一。
- start: 1308.899
  end: 1310.321
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: When Catholics say Jesus is the one, the only one, folks say, How could you?
  zh: 当公教徒说耶稣是那独一的、唯一的，人们会问：「你们怎么可能这样说？」
- start: 1310.321
  end: 1317.286
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: You know, how could you eliminate all these other religions, or Indians who worship something else, or the Muslims, and all the rest?
  zh: 你们怎么能排除所有其他宗教，或那些崇拜别的事物的印度人，或者穆斯林，以及其他人？
- start: 1317.286
  end: 1321.989
  speaker: barron
  en: But we don't. That was the whole point of my talk at the Pantheon, because He is the Logos.
  zh: 可我们并没有这样做。这正是我在万神殿所要表达的重点，因为祂是道。
- start: 1321.989
  end: 1328.414
  speaker: barron
  en: All the other logoi, the smaller expressions of God's truth, can find relation to Him.
  zh: 所有其他的众多道——也就是神真理较小的种种表露——都能与祂发生关联。
- start: 1328.414
  end: 1333.264
  speaker: barron
  en: So we can find rays of light; we can find elements of truth in all the great religions.
  zh: 因此，我们能在所有伟大的宗教中发现光芒，发现真理的成分。
- start: 1333.264
  end: 1335.765
  speaker: barron
  en: We can find elements of truth in all the great philosophies.
  zh: 我们能在所有伟大的哲学中找到真理的因素。
- start: 1335.765
  end: 1343.411
  speaker: barron
  en: We can look at every culture and say, That's good, that’s true, that’s right, that’s just, and Christianity can assimilate all those things to itself.
  zh: 我们能够审视每一种文化，然后说：「这很好，这是真实的，这是正确的，这是正义的」，而基督信仰可以把这些事物都同化进自身。
- start: 1343.411
  end: 1353.778
  speaker: barron
  en: So it’s not an aggressive move to say He’s the only one; it’s actually a very inclusive move to say, as the Logos, He’s the one, but that includes everybody else to a degree.
  zh: 因此，说「祂是唯一的」并不是一种排他性的立场；相反，正因祂是道，所以祂是独一的，但却在某种程度上包含所有其他人。
- start: 1353.778
  end: 1355.739
  speaker: barron
  en: They can all find relation to Him.
  zh: 它们都能与祂产生关联。
- start: 1355.739
  end: 1360.181
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Well, then the Muslims must say, to a degree, in the opposite direction, probably.
  zh: 那么，穆斯林可能也会在某种程度上，以他们相反的观点来回应。
- start: 1360.181
  end: 1363.924
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, but then we have to get down to the good argument.
  zh: 是的，可是我们得回到这种良好的论辩当中。
- start: 1363.924
  end: 1367.687
  speaker: barron
  en: See, one thing that concerns me is we've forgotten how to have a good religious argument.
  zh: 要知道，我担心的一件事就是我们已经忘了如何展开有益的宗教论辩。
- start: 1367.687
  end: 1378.715
  speaker: barron
  en: The two options seem to be either bland toleration or violence, and there is a middle ground between, like, Oh, we only believe different things, or I'm going to let you believe yours; I believe mine.
  zh: 现在看起来只有两种极端：要么平淡无奇的容忍，要么是暴力。中间似乎没有那种「你我只是信仰不同，我放你信你的，我信我的」的方式。
- start: 1378.715
  end: 1380.696
  speaker: barron
  en: But see, we don't believe that about politics.
  zh: 但是你看，在政治上我们并不这么认为。
- start: 1380.696
  end: 1382.597
  speaker: barron
  en: We have good arguments about politics.
  zh: 我们在政治议题上能够进行良好的讨论和辩论。
- start: 1382.657
  end: 1386.72
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, if I'm a Democrat and you’re a Republican, I want to convince you; I want a good argument with you.
  zh: 你想想，如果我是民主党，你是共和党，我想要说服你；我想和你来一场理性的辩论。
- start: 1386.818
  end: 1389.62
  speaker: barron
  en: And the options aren’t bland indifference or violence.
  zh: 而选项并不只是毫无热情的冷漠或暴力。
- start: 1389.62
  end: 1391.941
  speaker: barron
  en: We find a way to actually have an argument.
  zh: 我们能够找到一种真正进行辩论的方式。
- start: 1392.021
  end: 1395.783
  speaker: barron
  en: I want to recover a way for religious people to have an argument.
  zh: 我希望让宗教人士能够重新找回一种辩论的方法。
- start: 1395.824
  end: 1398.845
  speaker: barron
  en: It's not just bland toleration; it’s not killing each other.
  zh: 既不是淡而无味的忍让，也不是你死我活的冲突。
- start: 1399.466
  end: 1400.487
  speaker: barron
  en: Look at Thomas Aquinas.
  zh: 看看圣托马斯阿奎那。
- start: 1400.487
  end: 1401.627
  speaker: barron
  en: He figured out how to do it.
  zh: 他找到了如何进行这种论辩的方法。
- start: 1401.627
  end: 1409.673
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Thomas Aquinas argues very effectively with a whole range: Jews, Muslims, pagans, non-believers—everybody.'
  zh: 圣托马斯阿奎那能和各种人进行有力的辩论：犹太人、穆斯林、异教徒、不信者——所有人。
- start: 1409.673
  end: 1410.713
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the model.
  zh: 这就是一个典范。
- start: 1422.428
  end: 1428.03
  speaker: barron
  en: The Church is holy because Christ is holy, and the Church is Christ's mystical body.
  zh: 教会之所以圣洁，是因为基督是圣洁的，而教会是基督的奥妙身体。
- start: 1428.53
  end: 1443.716
  speaker: barron
  en: In its traditions, in its Scriptures, in its liturgy, in its sacraments—especially the Eucharist— in its art and architecture, in the lives of its saints, and in its apostolic governance, the Church bears the holiness of Christ to the world.
  zh: 在教会的传统、经文、礼仪和圣事——尤其是圣餐中，在其艺术与建筑、圣人的生命以及使徒治理中，教会把基督的圣洁带给整个世界。
- start: 1444.133
  end: 1450.258
  speaker: barron
  en: 'This is the Church''s entire purpose: to make saints, to make people holy.'
  zh: 这正是教会的全部目的：要塑造圣徒，使人圣洁。
- start: 1450.839
  end: 1455.583
  speaker: barron
  en: Everything it is, everything it has, is meant to produce that end.
  zh: 它的一切存在、它所拥有的一切，都是为了达成这个目标。
- start: 1456.324
  end: 1466.113
  speaker: barron
  en: In this sense, the Church is always the New Jerusalem; it's always the fountain of living water; it’s always the spotless bride of Christ.
  zh: 在这个意义上，教会常常是新的耶路撒冷；是活水的泉源；是基督无瑕疵的新娘。
- start: 1471.92
  end: 1477.483
  speaker: barron
  en: What about the far less than holy things that people have done in the name of the Church over the centuries?
  zh: 那对于数世纪以来人们以教会名义所做的极不圣洁的种种事，应该怎么看呢？
- start: 1480.525
  end: 1502.177
  speaker: barron
  en: One hears over and again about the Crusades, the Inquisition, the persecution of Galileo, the opposition to modern political reforms, institutional corruption, too much money and worldly preoccupation, and in recent years, the abuse of children by some priests and the countenance of this by some bishops.
  zh: 我们一次又一次地听到有关十字军东征、宗教裁判所、对伽利略的迫害、对现代政治改革的反对、制度上的腐败、过度的金钱与世俗牵挂，近些年来还有部分司祭对儿童施以虐待，以及一些主教对此持放任态度的事件。
- start: 1502.864
  end: 1508.448
  speaker: barron
  en: Given that litany of abuses, how could we possibly speak of the Church as holy?
  zh: 鉴于这一连串的滥用与丑闻，我们怎么还能说教会是圣洁的呢？
- start: 1510.351
  end: 1516.115
  speaker: barron
  en: To say that the Church is holy is not to deny for a minute that it’s filled with sinners.
  zh: 说教会是圣洁的，并不否认教会里充满了罪人。
- start: 1516.836
  end: 1527.325
  speaker: barron
  en: To say that the Church is holy is not to deny for a minute that church people, even of the highest rank, have done cruel, stupid, and sinful things.
  zh: 说教会是圣洁的，并不否认教会的人，包括高位者曾经做过残酷、愚昧且有罪的事情。
- start: 1532.537
  end: 1537.66
  speaker: barron
  en: Was St. Bernard wrong, even sinful, to preach the Second Crusade?
  zh: 圣贝尔纳德鼓吹了第二次十字军东征，这样做是错误，甚至是罪吗？
- start: 1538.481
  end: 1539.241
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Yes.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 1540.302
  end: 1546.205
  speaker: barron
  en: Was the Church wrong, even sinful, when in collusion with the Spanish government it launched the Inquisition?
  zh: 当教会与西班牙政府合谋发动宗教裁判所时，它是不是错了，甚至带有罪？
- start: 1547.266
  end: 1548.046
  speaker: barron
  en: Yes.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 1549.187
  end: 1554.07
  speaker: barron
  en: Were a number of Popes wrong, even sinful, in their implicit support of slavery?
  zh: 有一些教宗在暗中支持奴隶制度时，是否错了，甚至犯了罪？
- start: 1555.111
  end: 1555.891
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Yes.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 1556.712
  end: 1562.335
  speaker: barron
  en: Were a disturbing number of priests and bishops wrong, even sinful, in their contribution to the sex abuse scandal?
  zh: 是否有相当数量的司祭和主教，在导致性侵丑闻的过程中犯了错，甚至犯了罪？
- start: 1562.335
  end: 1564.535
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Yes, yes.
  zh: 是的，是的。
- start: 1566.057
  end: 1572.762
  speaker: barron
  en: But none of this gainsays that the Church is holy, that the Church is a bearer of grace.
  zh: 但是，这一切都无法否定教会是圣洁的，也无法否定教会是恩典的承载者。
- start: 1573.963
  end: 1584.491
  speaker: barron
  en: In the fourth century, St. Augustine battled with Donatus, who had said that only spiritually and morally worthy ministers could be conduits of grace.
  zh: 在第四世纪，圣奥古斯丁与多纳徒展开争辩，多纳徒认为，只有在灵性与道德上堪当的圣职者才能成为恩典的渠道。
- start: 1585.372
  end: 1592.718
  speaker: barron
  en: Augustine said no; the grace of the sacraments comes not from the moral excellence of the ministers, but from God.
  zh: 奥古斯丁说不然；圣事的恩典并不来自于圣职者的道德完美，而是来自神。
- start: 1594.656
  end: 1606.839
  speaker: barron
  en: Long ago, St. Paul reminded us that we hold the treasure of Christ's life in earthen vessels— in us, who are weak and fragile and sinful.
  zh: 很早以前，圣保罗就提醒我们，我们是在瓦器之中承载基督生命的宝贝，我们这些软弱、脆弱又有罪的人。
- start: 1608.239
  end: 1610.82
  speaker: barron
  en: And so, it’s gone up and down the Church's life.
  zh: 因此，教会的历史中总是有起有落。
- start: 1612.68
  end: 1619.962
  speaker: barron
  en: The grace of God, which makes the Church holy, often comes through weak and sinful channels.
  zh: 使教会成为圣洁的神恩，时常就是透过软弱且有罪的人来传递的。
- start: 1633.155
  end: 1646.899
  speaker: barron
  en: We say the Church is catholic.
  zh: 我们说教会是「大公」的。
- start: 1647.36
  end: 1653.746
  speaker: barron
  en: The word catholic comes from two Greek words, kath'holas, meaning according to the whole.
  zh: 「catholic」这个词来自两个希腊字根「kath'holas」，意思是「关于整体」。
- start: 1653.746
  end: 1669.945
  speaker: barron
  en: The Church is universal because it’s the means by which God wants to gather the whole world to Himself.
  zh: 教会之所以是普遍性的，是因为神要借着它把全世界都聚拢到祂面前。
- start: 1678.191
  end: 1684.813
  speaker: barron
  en: The Church is the New Israel, and hence it’s meant to be a magnet to all the nations.
  zh: 教会就是新的以色列，因此它应当成为吸引万国的磁铁。
- start: 1689.775
  end: 1703.659
  speaker: barron
  en: On the feast of Pentecost, fifty days after Easter, we hear that the Holy Spirit rushed upon the disciples, and the first thing they did was to go out into the streets of Jerusalem and to preach Jesus risen from the dead.
  zh: 在复活节后第五十天的五旬节，我们听到圣灵降临在门徒身上，而他们所做的第一件事，就是走到耶路撒冷的街头宣讲耶稣从死里复活。
- start: 1703.819
  end: 1713.435
  speaker: barron
  en: They preached to Jews who had gathered there for the feast from all over the world, and miraculously, they were heard in the various languages of the world.
  zh: 他们向从世界各地来过节的犹太人传道，奇妙的是，人们听见的是各地不同的语言。
- start: 1715.557
  end: 1722.701
  speaker: barron
  en: At its best, the Catholic Church has always exalted in this universal nature and culture transcending identity.
  zh: 公教会在最佳的状态下，一直引以为荣的就是这种超越身份的普遍性与文化性。
- start: 1726.143
  end: 1734.588
  speaker: barron
  en: In the Middle Ages, St. Anselm, an Italian, could become a monk and abbot in France and end his life as the Archbishop of Canterbury in England.
  zh: 在中世纪时期，意大利人圣安瑟伦可以在法国当修士和院长，最后又在英国担任坎特伯雷大主教。
- start: 1736.209
  end: 1748.14
  speaker: barron
  en: Thomas Aquinas, another Italian, could be educated in Germany and then become a world-renowned professor in Paris.
  zh: 另一位意大利人圣托马斯阿奎那，可以在德国受教，后来又在巴黎成为世界知名的教授。
- start: 1748.241
  end: 1758.048
  speaker: barron
  en: Pope John Paul II embodied the same Catholic spirit when, beginning in the 1980s, he called young people from all over the world for World Youth Days.
  zh: 教宗若望保禄二世从上世纪80年代开始，邀请世界各地的年轻人参加世界青年日，也展现了同样的公教会精神。
- start: 1759.75
  end: 1769.544
  speaker: barron
  en: He never wanted the young people to deny their national identities, but he wanted to convince them that they belonged to a family, a body that transcended their nationality.
  zh: 他从来不希望年轻人否定自己的民族身份，但却要让他们知道，他们属于一个超越国界的家庭和身体。
- start: 1771.687
  end: 1778.754
  speaker: barron
  en: One of the biggest crowds in human history gathered around him in Manila to celebrate this catholicity.
  zh: 在人类史上最大的人群之一，曾在马尼拉聚集在他身旁，一同庆祝这种大公性。
- start: 1788.914
  end: 1791.615
  speaker: barron
  en: One of the great gathering places of the whole world is St. Peter's Square.
  zh: 全世界最重要的聚会场所之一，就是圣彼得广场。
- start: 1791.615
  end: 1793.336
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, you see everybody here.
  zh: 我的意思是，你能在这里见到各种各样的人。
- start: 1793.336
  end: 1799.599
  speaker: barron
  en: When I was handing out Communion a couple of years ago at the Easter Mass, I looked out from right up front, and it’s absolutely strong.
  zh: 几年前，我在复活节弥撒中分送圣餐时，从前面往外看，真是极为壮观。
- start: 1799.599
  end: 1802.88
  speaker: barron
  en: I think it’s like 300,000 can fit all the way down to the river.
  zh: 我想大概有三十万人，从广场一直排到河边都能容纳。
- start: 1803.56
  end: 1808.862
  speaker: barron
  en: Bernini’s columns are meant to look like arms reaching out to gather in the whole world.
  zh: 贝尼尼设计的柱廊，宛如一双手臂向外伸展，想要拥抱整个世界。
- start: 1808.982
  end: 1811.964
  speaker: barron
  en: And so, it’s, you know, Go preach to all nations, Jesus said.
  zh: 因此，就如耶稣所说：「你们要往普天下去传道。」
- start: 1811.964
  end: 1814.284
  speaker: barron
  en: Who would have taken Him seriously at that stage?
  zh: 在当时，又有谁会认真看待这一点呢？
- start: 1814.305
  end: 1815.445
  speaker: barron
  en: But it works.
  zh: 但事实证明，这确实实现了。
- start: 1815.592
  end: 1818.416
  speaker: barron
  en: The word did go out to all the nations, and they all come here.
  zh: 这道的确传到万邦，而他们都来到了这里。
- start: 1818.416
  end: 1823.904
  speaker: barron
  en: So, it's an amazing sort of actual realization of what was said 2,000 years ago.
  zh: 所以，这真是两千年前所预言之事的一个惊人现实应验。
- start: 1823.904
  end: 1825.766
  speaker: barron
  en: You can actually see it in front of you.
  zh: 你现在就能亲眼看见这一切。
- start: 1827.423
  end: 1845.638
  speaker: SPEAKER_03
  en: 'I believe in God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.'
  zh: 我相信神：圣父、圣子、圣灵。
- start: 1862.062
  end: 1865.343
  speaker: barron
  en: The fourth great mark of the Church is apostolicity.
  zh: 教会的第四个重要标记是使徒性。
- start: 1865.443
  end: 1879.911
  speaker: barron
  en: 'We say the Church is apostolic, and it means something very simple: it means it''s rooted in the Apostles—those twelve men whom Jesus personally chose, shaped, and formed according to His own mind.'
  zh: 我们说教会是使徒性的，意思很简单：它植根于那些使徒身上——那十二位由耶稣亲自拣选、塑造，并以祂的思维加以培育的人。
- start: 1880.538
  end: 1883.139
  speaker: barron
  en: Remember that great scene at the beginning of John's Gospel?
  zh: 还记得约翰福音开头那个重要的场景吗？
- start: 1883.479
  end: 1886.039
  speaker: barron
  en: Two of John the Baptist's disciples come to Jesus.
  zh: 施洗约翰的两个门徒来到耶稣面前。
- start: 1886.039
  end: 1888.2
  speaker: barron
  en: He turns to them and says, What do you seek?
  zh: 祂转向他们，说：「你们要什么？」
- start: 1888.2
  end: 1891.04
  speaker: barron
  en: They say, Lord, where do you stay?
  zh: 他们说：「主啊，你住在哪里？」
- start: 1891.381
  end: 1893.121
  speaker: barron
  en: He said, Come and see.
  zh: 祂说：「你们来看。」
- start: 1893.121
  end: 1895.381
  speaker: barron
  en: And then they stayed with Him.
  zh: 于是，他们就与祂住在一起。
- start: 1895.742
  end: 1903.624
  speaker: barron
  en: That's a model of the apostolic life—these people who stayed with Jesus in close quarters with Him.
  zh: 这就是使徒生活的范例——那群与耶稣亲密相处的人。
- start: 1903.624
  end: 1906.044
  speaker: barron
  en: They were formed and shaped by His mind.
  zh: 他们受祂的思想所形成和塑造。
- start: 1906.204
  end: 1909.887
  speaker: barron
  en: It's upon those figures that Christianity rests.
  zh: 基督信仰就是立基在这些人之上。
- start: 1909.887
  end: 1918.252
  speaker: barron
  en: Again, the Church is not a philosophical debating society; it's grounded in this person, Jesus, whom these Apostles knew.
  zh: 再强调一次，教会不是一个哲学辩论会，而是建立在这位耶稣身上——祂为那些使徒们所亲身认识。
- start: 1918.693
  end: 1926.938
  speaker: barron
  en: That's why, in the early Church, apostolic pedigree was so important; they could trace their faith back to an Apostle who preached to them.
  zh: 这就是为什么在初期教会，使徒传承如此重要；他们能够将自己的信仰，一路追溯到向他们传道的某位使徒。
- start: 1930.26
  end: 1940.091
  speaker: barron
  en: That's why the city of Rome became so paramount in the early Church, because not one, but two of the great Apostles—Peter and Paul—lived here, taught here, and died here.
  zh: 这也就是为何罗马这座城市在早期教会如此重要，因为有两位伟大的使徒——彼得和保罗——都在这里生活、教导并殉道。
- start: 1940.091
  end: 1947.896
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm standing in this magnificent Basilica of St. John Lateran in Rome.
  zh: 我现在所处的，就是罗马这座宏伟的拉特朗圣若望大殿。
- start: 1947.937
  end: 1956.702
  speaker: barron
  en: Behind me, you can see over the main altar the reliquaries that tradition says contain the heads of Peter and Paul, the two great Apostles.
  zh: 在我身后，你能看到主祭台上方的圣髑匣，据传统说，里面保存着那两位伟大使徒——彼得和保罗——的头颅。
- start: 1956.783
  end: 1964.848
  speaker: barron
  en: Then, surrounding me, forming the ribs and the structure of the Church itself, are depictions of the twelve Apostles.
  zh: 接着，环绕在我四周、构成教堂主体结构的，是十二使徒的塑像。
- start: 1964.932
  end: 1970.255
  speaker: barron
  en: You can't see it anywhere better in the world than here—the apostolic nature of the Church.
  zh: 要看教会的使徒性，没有比这里更能充分呈现的地方了。
- start: 1972.176
  end: 1975.798
  speaker: barron
  en: We can see too why apostolic succession was so important.
  zh: 我们也能理解为什么使徒的承继如此重要。
- start: 1976.098
  end: 1983.662
  speaker: barron
  en: The Apostles, at one point, passed on their authority to those whom they had trained, whom they knew had the apostolic faith.
  zh: 使徒们在一定的时机，将他们的权柄传给那些受他们培育、且他们知道拥有使徒信仰的人。
- start: 1983.662
  end: 1994.508
  speaker: barron
  en: Then those successors, in turn, passed it on to others, to others again, even down to the present day, so that bishops today can claim that they are the successors of the Apostles.
  zh: 然后那些继任者再继续传给他人、再传给他人，直到今天，因此现今的主教可以声称他们是使徒的继承人。
- start: 1995.669
  end: 1998.83
  speaker: barron
  en: Every priest in the Catholic Church is ordained by a bishop.
  zh: 在公教会里，每一位司祭都由主教祝圣。
- start: 1999.01
  end: 2005.271
  speaker: barron
  en: Whatever power or authority I have as a priest comes to me from the fact that I was ordained by a bishop.
  zh: 我作为司祭所拥有的任何权柄和职分，都来自于我被主教祝圣的事实。
- start: 2005.352
  end: 2010.093
  speaker: barron
  en: That means that the whole leadership of the Church is apostolic in structure.
  zh: 这意味着教会的整个领导架构是使徒性的。
- start: 2012.553
  end: 2014.514
  speaker: barron
  en: The word hierarchy comes to mind.
  zh: 我们会想到「圣统制」这个词。
- start: 2014.514
  end: 2016.995
  speaker: barron
  en: We speak of the hierarchical Church.
  zh: 我们讲到教会的圣统结构。
- start: 2016.995
  end: 2023.136
  speaker: barron
  en: Don't think of it primarily in terms of power; think of it in terms of this etymology.
  zh: 别先把它想成权力体系，而要从词源的角度去理解。
- start: 2023.607
  end: 2027.589
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Hierarchy comes from two Greek words: hieros and arche.'
  zh: 「圣统」源自两个希腊字：hieros 和 arche。
- start: 2027.69
  end: 2031.412
  speaker: barron
  en: Hieros means priest; arche means rule or principle.
  zh: hieros 是指司祭，arche 则是指法则或根源。
- start: 2031.432
  end: 2034.534
  speaker: barron
  en: The hierarchical Church is one that is ruled by priests.
  zh: 所谓具圣统的教会，就是由司祭治理的教会。
- start: 2034.534
  end: 2043.439
  speaker: barron
  en: Again, don't think of it as a power game; think of it as a Church ruled, governed, grounded in this apostolic faith.
  zh: 再次提醒，不要把它看作一场权力游戏，而要看作一个在使徒信仰基础上被治理、被领导的教会。
- start: 2044.4
  end: 2051.444
  speaker: barron
  en: 'A last thought: the word apostle comes from the Greek word apostellin, which means to send.'
  zh: 最后要提的是：「使徒」这个词来自希腊文 apostellin，意为「差派」。
- start: 2051.792
  end: 2057.417
  speaker: barron
  en: Jesus took these twelve people whom He had formed after His own heart, and then He sent them.
  zh: 耶稣拣选了祂亲自心意所培育的这十二个人，然后差派他们出去。
- start: 2057.417
  end: 2065.005
  speaker: barron
  en: The Christian faith is never meant to be held onto as a private privilege; it’s meant to be shared, to be spread like seed around the world.
  zh: 基督信仰从来都不该被视为私有的特权；它是要被分享、像种子一样撒向全世界的。
- start: 2065.005
  end: 2070.61
  speaker: barron
  en: And so, the apostolic Church, to the present day, still has that great missionary purpose.
  zh: 因此，使徒性的教会直到今天，仍然怀抱那伟大的宣教使命。
- start: 2087.771
  end: 2090.893
  speaker: barron
  en: Again, this quality of the Church is countercultural.
  zh: 同样，教会的这一特质带有反主流文化的意味。
- start: 2090.893
  end: 2099.84
  speaker: barron
  en: At least in the West, we favor democracy, the free play of ideas, freedom of expression, the power to vote leaders in and out.
  zh: 至少在西方，我们崇尚民主，崇尚思想的自由交锋与言论自由，并有权利投票选举或罢免领袖。
- start: 2099.84
  end: 2105.644
  speaker: barron
  en: Aren't these values out of step with a Church hierarchically arranged?
  zh: 这些价值观岂不是和一个具有圣统结构的教会背道而驰吗？
- start: 2107.986
  end: 2117.493
  speaker: barron
  en: As I indicated, the Church is not a philosophical debating society, nor a democratic polity, but rather a body grounded in revelation.
  zh: 如我先前所说，教会不是一个哲学辩论会，也不是一个民主政体，而是一个奠基于启示的团体。
- start: 2117.981
  end: 2125.425
  speaker: barron
  en: There is, accordingly, a structure and a content that are simply given and have to be maintained over the course of the century.
  zh: 因此，它有一个既定的架构和内涵，需要在歷代岁月中被维护。
- start: 2128.626
  end: 2138.351
  speaker: barron
  en: Here, the hierarchy of the Church is not unlike the Supreme Court in our political system, since it maintains the fundamental structure without which the body would collapse.
  zh: 在这一点上，教会的圣统制有点类似我们政治体制中的最高法院，因为它维护了那道根基，若失去它，教会整体便会崩塌。
- start: 2140.313
  end: 2158.7
  speaker: barron
  en: The Church would not be itself were it to deny the divinity of Jesus, the facticity of the resurrection, the existence of the Triune God, the activity of the Holy Spirit, etc. And mind you, all of these things have been denied by figures up and down the centuries.
  zh: 若教会否认耶稣的神性、否认复活的实情、否认三位一体的神以及圣灵的工作等等，那教会就不再是真正的教会。要知道，历世纪以来，这些真理曾多次被各种人物所否定。
- start: 2159.161
  end: 2166.983
  speaker: barron
  en: Were these matters able to be adjudicated through a vote of the faithful or of theologians, the Church would lose its integrity.
  zh: 若这些议题能经由信徒或神学家投票裁定，教会就会失去它的完整性。
- start: 2171.905
  end: 2185.581
  speaker: barron
  en: This brings us to what is perhaps the most controversial and misunderstood dimension of the Church's apostolicity, namely, the charism of infallibility enjoyed by the Pope, the successor of the Prince of the Apostles.
  zh: 这就引出了教会使徒性中或许最具争议、也最容易被误解的一面：即使徒之长继任者——教宗——所拥有的「无误」神恩。
- start: 2186.641
  end: 2192.562
  speaker: barron
  en: It would be helpful, I think, first to state as clearly as possible what papal infallibility is not.
  zh: 我想也许先澄清教宗无误并不代表什么，会有所帮助。
- start: 2193.183
  end: 2195.603
  speaker: barron
  en: It does not mean that the Pope is omniscient.
  zh: 它并不意味着教宗是全知的。
- start: 2195.923
  end: 2198.123
  speaker: barron
  en: It does not mean he can predict the future.
  zh: 也不意味着他能预言未来。
- start: 2198.484
  end: 2206.525
  speaker: barron
  en: It does not mean that he is immune from making bad practical judgments, and it certainly doesn’t mean that he is above criticism or incapable of sin.
  zh: 更不意味着他不会做出错误的实务判断，也绝不意味着他高于批评或不可能犯罪。
- start: 2206.983
  end: 2213.307
  speaker: barron
  en: In fact, some of the saints were sharp critics of popes, and Dante places some wicked popes in the lower circles of hell.
  zh: 事实上，也有一些圣人曾经严厉批评过教宗，而但丁则在他的作品中把一些邪恶的教宗置于地狱的深处。
- start: 2213.307
  end: 2217.771
  speaker: barron
  en: So, what does it mean to say the Pope is infallible?
  zh: 那么，说教宗无误究竟是什么意思呢？
- start: 2217.771
  end: 2230.119
  speaker: barron
  en: It means that he knows who Jesus is, and therefore, when summoning his full authority, he articulates those doctrines and moral precepts that flow from that knowledge.
  zh: 这意味着他晓得耶稣是谁，因此，当他动用全部权威时，他所宣示的教义和道德准则，正是源自这一认识。
- start: 2230.419
  end: 2233.341
  speaker: barron
  en: He is prevented from making a mistake.
  zh: 他在这方面被阻止去犯错。
- start: 2234.025
  end: 2237.907
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, I know it’s difficult for us, especially in the West, to accept this doctrine.
  zh: 我知道我们，尤其是西方人，往往难以接受这一教义。
- start: 2237.907
  end: 2244.65
  speaker: barron
  en: We believe in the free play of ideas, and we’re naturally suspicious of claims to authority—especially infallible authority.
  zh: 我们相信思想的自由交锋，也天生对各种权威主张持怀疑态度——特别是无误的权威。
- start: 2245.07
  end: 2247.591
  speaker: barron
  en: Maybe John Henry Newman can help us a little bit.
  zh: 或许约翰·亨利·纽曼可以帮我们理解一点。
- start: 2248.032
  end: 2261.438
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Newman said this: if it pleased God to reveal something to the Church, it should also please God to give us a living voice of authority that would interpret that revelation down through the ages.'
  zh: 纽曼曾说：如果神乐意向教会揭示某些真理，祂也该乐意赐给我们一位活生生的权威之声，来在历代中诠释这种启示。
- start: 2262.17
  end: 2266.632
  speaker: barron
  en: In Newman’s time, many Protestants said, “Well, the Bible—that’s the source of authority.”
  zh: 纽曼那个时代，很多新教徒会说：「嗯，圣经——它才是权威的来源。」
- start: 2267.093
  end: 2271.055
  speaker: barron
  en: But Newman knew the Bible is subject to a wide variety of interpretations.
  zh: 但是纽曼明白，圣经会被各式各样的解读所左右。
- start: 2272.036
  end: 2277.779
  speaker: barron
  en: The young Newman himself said the consensus of the Church Fathers—that's the source of authority.
  zh: 年轻时的纽曼也曾说，教父们的一致看法才是权威的来源。
- start: 2278.3
  end: 2283.022
  speaker: barron
  en: But it dawned on Newman as he grew older that the Fathers were not a living voice.
  zh: 但纽曼在年岁渐长后意识到，教父们并不是活生生的声音。
- start: 2283.022
  end: 2295.915
  speaker: barron
  en: No matter how wise and insightful they were, it was only the Church of Rome that claimed that the Pope, in communion with the bishops, was a living voice of authority.
  zh: 无论他们多么智慧和有见地，只有罗马公教会宣称教宗在与主教共融之下，构成了一个活的权威之声。
- start: 2297.236
  end: 2306.324
  speaker: barron
  en: If I might apply Newman’s comparison a bit, anyone that loves baseball knows that the umpires are indispensable to the flow of the game.
  zh: 若我可以稍微套用一下纽曼的比方：任何热爱棒球的人都知道，裁判对比赛的进行至关重要，绝不可缺。
- start: 2306.685
  end: 2312.37
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Without an umpire, a baseball game would devolve in very short order into bickering over calls: Is he safe?'
  zh: 没有裁判的话，一场棒球赛很快就会陷入对各种判决的争吵：「他上垒安全了吗？
- start: 2312.37
  end: 2313.031
  speaker: barron
  en: Is he out?
  zh: 他出局了吗？
- start: 2313.031
  end: 2313.631
  speaker: barron
  en: Was that fair?
  zh: 刚才是不是界内球？
- start: 2313.631
  end: 2314.592
  speaker: barron
  en: Was it foul?
  zh: 还是界外球？」
- start: 2315.02
  end: 2321.745
  speaker: barron
  en: The umpire, who is present to the game and is a living voice of authority, can make a decisive decision.
  zh: 而那个亲临比赛、拥有活的权威之声的裁判，才能作出决定性判定。
- start: 2322.586
  end: 2325.667
  speaker: barron
  en: He allows the flow of the game to go on.
  zh: 他让比赛的进程继续下去。
- start: 2326.328
  end: 2331.692
  speaker: barron
  en: So the infallible Pope is not there to shut down the play of the Church's life.
  zh: 因此，无误的教宗并不是用来停滞教会生活的开展。
- start: 2331.692
  end: 2337.857
  speaker: barron
  en: That means the Church's teaching, its care for the poor, its proclamation of the good news, its liturgy, its art—all of that.
  zh: 也就是说，教会的教导、对贫者的关怀、对福音的宣讲、其礼仪和艺术——这一切。
- start: 2337.857
  end: 2348.46
  speaker: barron
  en: The Pope is not there to shut that down; rather, he's there as a living voice of authority to allow that play to continue, lest it devolve into bickering.
  zh: 教宗并不是要终止这些活动；相反地，他是一位活生生的权威之声，保障这些行动能继续下去，免得流于争吵。
- start: 2352.622
  end: 2364.367
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Perhaps just a word about the keys: Jesus said to Peter, I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven.'
  zh: 或许我们该提一下这钥匙：耶稣曾对彼得说：「我要把天国的钥匙交给你。」
- start: 2365.027
  end: 2366.888
  speaker: barron
  en: G.K. Chesterton saw something here.
  zh: 吉尔伯特·基思·切斯特顿在这里看出了些什么。
- start: 2366.888
  end: 2372.205
  speaker: barron
  en: He said a key would be useful if it changed shape, if it changed form.
  zh: 他说，如果一把钥匙能够改变形状、改变形式，它才会有用处。
- start: 2372.205
  end: 2376.925
  speaker: barron
  en: It’s the very hardness of the key that makes it effective at opening locks.
  zh: 然而，正是钥匙的坚硬，使它能够打开锁。
- start: 2377.106
  end: 2385.547
  speaker: barron
  en: What was given to the Church was a key to unlock the secret to life, the secret to the great mystery of all things.
  zh: 教会所得到的，是一把能开启生命奥秘、万物奥秘的钥匙。
- start: 2386.467
  end: 2392.169
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, if that key was flexible, if that key was changeable, it would lose its whole reason for being.
  zh: 如果那把钥匙是软的、是可以随意变化的，它就失去了存在的根本意义。
- start: 2392.549
  end: 2401.898
  speaker: barron
  en: And so, it’s upon this rock of Peter’s authority, the one who holds the key, that the Church is indeed built.
  zh: 因此，教会正是建基在彼得权柄的磐石上——那握有钥匙的人。
- start: 2401.898
  end: 2412.42
  speaker: barron
  en: So the Church is apostolic; it’s formed by the faith of these twelve Apostles of Jesus.
  zh: 所以，教会具有使徒性；它由那十二位耶稣使徒的信仰而成型。
- start: 2412.801
  end: 2418.002
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Well then, here’s an objection: How come the Church seems to change so much over the centuries?'
  zh: 接着会有人提出质疑：为什么教会在历经几个世纪后似乎产生了如此多的变化？
- start: 2418.162
  end: 2425.423
  speaker: barron
  en: How come even today, in many of its external forms, practices, and customs, the Church seems so different than in apostolic times?
  zh: 为什么甚至在今天，教会的很多外在形式、执行方式和习俗，都与使徒时代如此不同？
- start: 2425.774
  end: 2429.796
  speaker: barron
  en: If Peter or Paul walked into this great basilica, would they feel completely at home?
  zh: 要是彼得或保罗走进这座宏大的大殿，他们会感到完全熟悉吗？
- start: 2429.796
  end: 2431.117
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, probably not.
  zh: 恐怕不会。
- start: 2431.117
  end: 2434.678
  speaker: barron
  en: How do we explain the changes within the Church?
  zh: 那我们要如何解释教会内部的这些转变呢？
- start: 2435.379
  end: 2438.06
  speaker: barron
  en: John Henry Newman is very helpful here.
  zh: 约翰·亨利·纽曼在这里非常有帮助。
- start: 2438.26
  end: 2441.642
  speaker: barron
  en: He talks about the development of doctrine.
  zh: 他提出了教义发展的概念。
- start: 2442.082
  end: 2449.686
  speaker: barron
  en: Newman says, Look, ideas exist not on the printed page; ideas exist in the play of lively minds.
  zh: 纽曼说：「你看，思想并不只是印在纸上；而是在人们活跃的思考中存在。」
- start: 2449.706
  end: 2453.365
  speaker: barron
  en: If I take in an idea, I analyze it, I judge it...
  zh: 如果我接收了一个想法，我会去分析它、评判它……
- start: 2453.365
  end: 2457.926
  speaker: barron
  en: I compare it, I contrast it, I turn it around, and I then throw it to somebody else.
  zh: 我会拿它来比较、对照、反复地思量，再将它传给别人。
- start: 2457.926
  end: 2460.307
  speaker: barron
  en: They do the same thing; they toss it back to me.
  zh: 他们也会做同样的事情，再把它丢回给我。
- start: 2460.307
  end: 2466.328
  speaker: barron
  en: It’s in this lively play that the full panoply of the idea unfolds.
  zh: 就在这如此生动的交流里，这个想法的全貌才会一层层展开。
- start: 2466.708
  end: 2473.13
  speaker: barron
  en: Newman said a real idea is equivalent to the sum total of its possible aspects.
  zh: 纽曼说，一个真正的观念等同于它所有可能面向的总和。
- start: 2473.13
  end: 2478.872
  speaker: barron
  en: Only when I’ve seen all the different angles and profiles of an idea do I really understand it.
  zh: 只有当我看到了这个想法各种不同的角度与侧面后，我才真正明白了它。
- start: 2481.909
  end: 2486.45
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of it in terms of a physical object, like St. Peter’s Basilica.
  zh: 把它想成一个实物，就好比圣彼得大殿。
- start: 2486.711
  end: 2490.212
  speaker: barron
  en: I’ve seen St. Peter’s up close; it looks a certain way.
  zh: 我曾在近处看过圣彼得大殿，它给人的印象是某一种样子。
- start: 2490.212
  end: 2492.353
  speaker: barron
  en: I’ve seen it from all the way across the city of Rome.
  zh: 我也曾在罗马城的另一端看过它。
- start: 2492.353
  end: 2495.714
  speaker: barron
  en: I’ve seen it even from an airplane; I’ve seen it from the Janiculum Hill.
  zh: 我甚至在飞机上、在雅尼库鲁姆山上都看过它。
- start: 2495.714
  end: 2500.495
  speaker: barron
  en: In each perspective, it looks different; a different aspect appears.
  zh: 每一处的视角都不同；所呈现的面貌也就有所差异。
- start: 2501.896
  end: 2508.958
  speaker: barron
  en: Now consider the doctrine of the Church—an idea as complex as the Incarnation, creation, or the Trinity.
  zh: 如今再想想教会的教义——一个像道成肉身、创造或三位一体那般复杂的思想。
- start: 2509.389
  end: 2515.692
  speaker: barron
  en: That idea can be taken in by the Church only over time as the idea unfolds.
  zh: 这样一个概念，教会只能随着时间的推移而逐渐吸收，让它的含义逐步展开。
- start: 2515.692
  end: 2523.995
  speaker: barron
  en: That’s why Newman says the apostolic faith is not passed on like a dumb object, like passing a football from one to another.
  zh: 这就是为什么纽曼说，使徒信仰并不是像传递一个无声的物体那样被传承，不是像把一颗橄榄球从一个人手里递到另一个人手里那般死板。
- start: 2524.075
  end: 2530.478
  speaker: barron
  en: Rather, it unfolds like a river that deepens and broadens over time.
  zh: 相反，它就像一条不断加深、加宽的河流那样展开。
- start: 2531.459
  end: 2537.041
  speaker: barron
  en: It grows like a great tree that might begin as an acorn but then develops into this mighty oak tree.
  zh: 它也如一棵大树，从一颗橡实起步，最终长成参天的橡树。
- start: 2538.618
  end: 2549.204
  speaker: barron
  en: That’s why we see change in the life of the Church—not as though the essential apostolic faith has been betrayed, but rather it’s growing, unfolding.
  zh: 这就是我们看到教会生活中会有变化的原因——不是说那使徒信仰的本质被背弃了，而是它在不断成长、渐次展开。
- start: 2551.126
  end: 2556.669
  speaker: barron
  en: We are, yes, an apostolic Church, but we are also a living Church.
  zh: 是的，我们是使徒性的教会，但我们同时也是一个有生命力的教会。
- start: 2561.733
  end: 2579.552
  speaker: barron
  en: Just before boarding the train that would carry him to Rome in the conclave that would elect him Pope, John XXIII, Cardinal Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli, commented in regard to himself and his fellow cardinals, We are not here to guard a museum, but to cultivate a flourishing garden of life.
  zh: 若望二十三世，即安杰洛·朱塞佩·隆卡利枢机，乘火车前往罗马参加选他为教宗的秘密会议前，曾这样评论自己和其他枢机：「我们并不是来守护博物馆的，而是要培育一座繁盛的生命花园。」
- start: 2580.993
  end: 2589.656
  speaker: barron
  en: The Church of Jesus Christ is not a collection of cultural objets d'art; it’s not a stuffy institutional holdover from another age.
  zh: 耶稣基督的教会并不是一堆文化艺术品的汇集；它并不是从某个时代遗留下来的死板制度。
- start: 2590.837
  end: 2599.222
  speaker: barron
  en: It is rather, as the mosaic at San Clemente suggests, a living thing, an organism, a body.
  zh: 它更像圣革利免教堂的马赛克所示意的那样，是一个活的存在，一个生命体，一个身体。
- start: 2604.023
  end: 2608.445
  speaker: barron
  en: Its head is Jesus Himself, and its lifeblood is the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 它的元首是耶稣自己，而它的生命源头是圣灵。
- start: 2611.546
  end: 2622.65
  speaker: barron
  en: Its purpose is to be a conduit of the divine life to the world, a light to the nations, a new Eden.
  zh: 它的目标是成为向世界传递神之生命的管道，成为万国的光明，一个新的伊甸。
