- start: 3.095
  end: 4.636
  speaker: unknown
  en: Okay, are we ready to go?
  zh: 好，我们准备好了吗？
- start: 5.337
  end: 7.739
  speaker: unknown
  en: So welcome back.
  zh: 欢迎回来。
- start: 7.739
  end: 10.841
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is Lecture 6, if anybody's counting.
  zh: 这是第六讲，如果有人在数的话。
- start: 11.001
  end: 19.008
  speaker: unknown
  en: The first theologian, and this is where it gets fun, because we're going to start talking about the early  Theologians.
  zh: 第一个神学家，这里开始有趣了，因为我们要开始谈论早期的神学家。
- start: 19.008
  end: 22.75
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, what's the difference between a theologian and an apologist?
  zh: 现在，神学家和护教学者有什么区别？
- start: 22.75
  end: 25.211
  speaker: unknown
  en: We've already read some of the apologists.
  zh: 我们已经读过一些护教学者的作品。
- start: 25.211
  end: 32.815
  speaker: unknown
  en: Apologists were writing primarily for a non-Christian audience, even though probably more Christians read their stuff than non-Christians.
  zh: 护教学者主要是为非基督徒写作，尽管可能更多的基督徒读他们的作品。
- start: 32.815
  end: 39.938
  speaker: unknown
  en: The point is that they were writing for a non-Christian audience, which meant they used philosophy more than they used Scripture.
  zh: 关键是他们是为非基督徒写作，这意味着他们更多地使用哲学而不是圣经。
- start: 39.938
  end: 44.44
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because after all, if you're writing for a non-Christian audience, why quote Scripture?
  zh: 毕竟，如果你是为非基督徒写作，为什么要引用圣经呢？
- start: 44.72
  end: 49.931
  speaker: unknown
  en: And, as we just learned,  The canon was still in process.
  zh: 而且，正如我们刚刚学到的，正典还在形成中。
- start: 49.931
  end: 57.919
  speaker: unknown
  en: So now we're getting to the point where the theologians are going to be using Scripture to support their arguments.
  zh: 所以现在我们到了神学家将使用圣经来支持他们论点的阶段。
- start: 58.019
  end: 60.001
  speaker: unknown
  en: And we're going to talk about two of them tonight.
  zh: 今晚我们要谈论其中的两位。
- start: 60.001
  end: 63.124
  speaker: unknown
  en: The first one we're going to talk about is Irenaeus.
  zh: 我们要谈论的第一个是爱任纽。
- start: 66.007
  end: 67.829
  speaker: unknown
  en: Some people say Irenaeus.
  zh: 有些人说爱任纽。
- start: 67.829
  end: 69.471
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's alright.
  zh: 没关系。
- start: 71.36
  end: 100.203
  speaker: unknown
  en: And his dates are, he was born somewhere in the 120s, so like 120 to 130, somewhere in there, and died, according to tradition, in 202. Although we don't really exactly know that for sure, but the date 202 kind of sticks because there was a lot of persecution going on, and so according to the tradition, he was martyred, so it seems like a good date for him to die, but we're not exactly sure.
  zh: 他的生卒日期是，他大约出生在120年代，大约在120到130年之间，根据传统，他死于202年。虽然我们不完全确定，但202年这个日期比较固定，因为当时有很多迫害，根据传统，他殉道了，所以这个日期似乎是他去世的好日期，但我们不完全确定。
- start: 101.283
  end: 112.146
  speaker: unknown
  en: He's from Asia Minor, you know it as Turkey, and possibly from the city of Smyrna, or Izmir now.
  zh: 他来自小亚细亚，你们知道的土耳其，可能来自士每拿，现在的伊兹密尔。
- start: 114.447
  end: 122.829
  speaker: unknown
  en: And among our earlier authors is a guy named Polycarp, Polycarp was Bishop of Smyrna.
  zh: 在我们早期的作者中，有一个叫坡旅甲的人，坡旅甲是士每拿的主教。
- start: 123.104
  end: 138.303
  speaker: unknown
  en: And apparently it seems that Irenaeus may have studied under him, but was certainly a priest at that time and was sent.
  zh: 显然，爱任纽可能在他手下学习过，但当时肯定是一位神父，并被派遣。
- start: 138.715
  end: 144.817
  speaker: unknown
  en: To the town of Lyon, where he was sent to the mission field.
  zh: 到里昂镇，他被派往传教区。
- start: 144.817
  end: 154.039
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, Lyon, this is France, but back then it's called Gaul, and it's not a vacation spot back then, it's the wilderness, it's the mission field.
  zh: 现在，里昂，这是法国，但那时叫高卢，那时不是度假胜地，而是荒野，是传教区。
- start: 154.039
  end: 161.461
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so he's sent there to support the bishop of Lyon, whose name was Pothinus.
  zh: 所以他被派去支持里昂的主教，名叫波提努。
- start: 164.142
  end: 167.603
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so he's a priest who's supporting that bishop.
  zh: 所以他是支持那位主教的神父。
- start: 168.005
  end: 172.266
  speaker: unknown
  en: Irenaeus is heavily influenced by Justin Martyr's writings.
  zh: 爱任纽深受殉道者游斯丁的著作影响。
- start: 172.266
  end: 175.547
  speaker: unknown
  en: Of course, there aren't that many writings to be influenced by yet.
  zh: 当然，还没有那么多著作可以受到影响。
- start: 175.607
  end: 185.149
  speaker: unknown
  en: But if he's a student of Polycarp and Justin, you can sort of think of Irenaeus as maybe third generation after the Apostles, right?
  zh: 但如果他是坡旅甲和游斯丁的学生，你可以把爱任纽看作是使徒之后的第三代，对吧？
- start: 186.51
  end: 190.531
  speaker: unknown
  en: He moves to Gaul to serve under Bishop Pothinus.
  zh: 他搬到高卢，在波提努主教手下服侍。
- start: 190.531
  end: 200.398
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in the year 177, he returns from a trip to Rome  And when he gets back to Lyon, he's told there's good news and there's bad news.
  zh: 在177年，他从罗马旅行回来，当他回到里昂时，有人告诉他有好消息和坏消息。
- start: 201.779
  end: 203.0
  speaker: unknown
  en: Which one do you want first?
  zh: 你想先听哪个？
- start: 203.0
  end: 204.721
  speaker: unknown
  en: You're going to ask, well, I don't know, give me the bad news.
  zh: 你会问，好吧，我不知道，先告诉我坏消息。
- start: 204.721
  end: 215.448
  speaker: unknown
  en: The bad news is there's been a wave of persecution, and a lot of people have been martyred while you were gone, including our beloved bishop, Pope Sinus.
  zh: 坏消息是发生了一波迫害，很多人在你离开期间殉道了，包括我们敬爱的主教波提努。
- start: 215.849
  end: 216.709
  speaker: unknown
  en: Jeez, that's terrible.
  zh: 天哪，太糟糕了。
- start: 216.709
  end: 218.39
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, what's the good news?
  zh: 那么，好消息是什么？
- start: 218.39
  end: 219.671
  speaker: unknown
  en: You're the new bishop!
  zh: 你是新主教！
- start: 221.278
  end: 228.985
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, the lesson to be learned from this is do not miss a church meeting, because you will be elected to some sort of responsibility.
  zh: 所以，从中学到的教训是不要错过教会会议，因为你会被选为某种责任。
- start: 228.985
  end: 238.052
  speaker: unknown
  en: In fact, I refer to that as the Irenaeus Syndrome, when you show up after a meeting and they decide you're going to do something.
  zh: 事实上，我称之为爱任纽综合症，当你在会议后出现时，他们决定你要做某事。
- start: 238.553
  end: 254.988
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, he becomes the Bishop of Lyon, and in that role, he is our first real theologian since the Apostles, because  He wants to support his arguments from Scripture, not philosophy.
  zh: 所以，他成为了里昂的主教，在这个角色中，他是使徒之后我们的第一个真正的神学家，因为他想用圣经而不是哲学来支持他的论点。
- start: 254.988
  end: 259.59
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, his arguments are primarily against Gnosticism.
  zh: 现在，他的论点主要是反对诺斯替主义。
- start: 260.39
  end: 261.971
  speaker: unknown
  en: You already know about that.
  zh: 你已经知道了。
- start: 262.732
  end: 286.639
  speaker: unknown
  en: The other thing that makes him a theologian as opposed to an apologist is that his primary audience is not outsiders, where he has to convince them to accept Christianity,  But his primary audience is insiders, where his agenda is to warn them about the dangers of heresy and specifically Gnosticism.
  zh: 使他成为神学家而不是护教学者的另一点是，他的主要听众不是外人，他不需要说服他们接受基督教，而是内部人士，他的任务是警告他们异端的危险，特别是诺斯替主义。
- start: 288.341
  end: 291.743
  speaker: unknown
  en: Why is that such an urgent mission for him?
  zh: 为什么这对他来说是如此紧迫的任务？
- start: 291.763
  end: 295.525
  speaker: unknown
  en: He says, remember, Christology informs soteriology.
  zh: 他说，记住，基督论影响救赎论。
- start: 295.525
  end: 312.26
  speaker: unknown
  en: What you believe about Christ matters because your belief about Christ leads you to certain beliefs about salvation and  Orthodoxy is important because only a correct belief in Christ leads to salvation.
  zh: 你对基督的信仰很重要，因为你对基督的信仰会引导你对救赎的某些信仰，正统信仰很重要，因为只有对基督的正确信仰才能带来救赎。
- start: 312.26
  end: 314.921
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's the whole assumption behind this.
  zh: 这就是背后的全部假设。
- start: 314.921
  end: 317.261
  speaker: unknown
  en: True faith matters.
  zh: 真正的信仰很重要。
- start: 318.322
  end: 326.525
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Church cannot simply let everyone believe whatever they want because believing the wrong thing will not lead to salvation.
  zh: 教会不能简单地让每个人相信他们想要的东西，因为错误的信仰不会带来救赎。
- start: 329.266
  end: 341.997
  speaker: unknown
  en: With regard specifically to Gnosticism, remember Gnosticism, most Gnosticism is Docetic, meaning that for the most part the Gnostics, along with the Docetics, denied the humanity of Christ.
  zh: 特别是关于诺斯替主义，记住诺斯替主义，大多数诺斯替主义是幻影说，这意味着大多数诺斯替主义者和幻影说者否认基督的人性。
- start: 342.057
  end: 345.26
  speaker: unknown
  en: They said that sure, he's divine, but not really human.
  zh: 他们说，当然，他是神圣的，但不是真正的人。
- start: 345.26
  end: 354.883
  speaker: unknown
  en: So that his human body was either an illusion, and he's a phantom, or that maybe it was tangible, but you know,  Still kind of wispy and not really human.
  zh: 所以他的人体要么是幻觉，他是幽灵，要么也许是有形的，但你知道，仍然有点虚幻，不是真正的人。
- start: 355.023
  end: 365.366
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so Irenaeus' response to that is that in us, it is our humanity that needs salvation.
  zh: 所以爱任纽对此的回应是，在我们身上，需要救赎的是我们的人性。
- start: 365.366
  end: 368.867
  speaker: unknown
  en: I mean, after all, when we sin, we sin in the flesh, right?
  zh: 毕竟，当我们犯罪时，我们是在肉体中犯罪，对吧？
- start: 368.867
  end: 379.399
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's our flesh that sins, so it's our humanity  If Christ is going to be our savior, he has to be one of us.
  zh: 是我们的肉体在犯罪，所以是我们的人性。如果基督要成为我们的救主，他必须是我们中的一员。
- start: 379.399
  end: 382.302
  speaker: unknown
  en: To save humanity, he has to be human.
  zh: 要拯救人类，他必须是人。
- start: 382.302
  end: 388.489
  speaker: unknown
  en: There's a principle here behind this that's implied here, but it will be stated later more clearly.
  zh: 这里有一个原则，虽然隐含在这里，但稍后会更清楚地说明。
- start: 388.489
  end: 389.95
  speaker: unknown
  en: The principle is this.
  zh: 原则是这样的。
- start: 390.171
  end: 393.274
  speaker: unknown
  en: What is not assumed is not saved.
  zh: 未被承担的就未被拯救。
- start: 393.875
  end: 395.917
  speaker: unknown
  en: What is not assumed is not saved.
  zh: 未被承担的就未被拯救。
- start: 395.917
  end: 399.74
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, if Jesus doesn't become something, he can't save it.
  zh: 换句话说，如果耶稣不成为某物，他就不能拯救它。
- start: 399.74
  end: 402.061
  speaker: unknown
  en: And of course, the something is human, right?
  zh: 当然，这个某物是人，对吧？
- start: 402.061
  end: 405.844
  speaker: unknown
  en: If he doesn't become human, truly human, he can't save humanity.
  zh: 如果他不成为人，真正的人，他就不能拯救人类。
- start: 405.844
  end: 413.389
  speaker: unknown
  en: So that's what's going on here, and that's why Irenaeus writes with such urgency.
  zh: 这就是这里发生的事情，也是为什么爱任纽写得如此紧迫。
- start: 414.03
  end: 422.347
  speaker: unknown
  en: His biggest document, one that I am not asking you  It's called Against Heresies.
  zh: 他最大的著作，我不要求你们读，叫做《反异端》。
- start: 422.508
  end: 426.969
  speaker: unknown
  en: Actually, that's the shorthand title.
  zh: 实际上，这是简写标题。
- start: 426.969
  end: 432.811
  speaker: unknown
  en: This piece of chalk is now down to one molecule.
  zh: 这块粉笔现在只剩下一分子了。
- start: 432.811
  end: 440.313
  speaker: unknown
  en: Against Heresies, the actual title is The Detection and Reputation of Knowledge Falsely So Called.
  zh: 《反异端》的全名是《揭露和驳斥所谓的虚假知识》。
- start: 440.953
  end: 444.534
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, knowledge falsely so called.
  zh: 换句话说，就是所谓的虚假知识。
- start: 444.534
  end: 447.135
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, false knowledge or gnosticism.
  zh: 换句话说，就是虚假知识或诺斯替主义。
- start: 448.423
  end: 450.844
  speaker: unknown
  en: And we call it, again, Teresies.
  zh: 我们再次称之为《反异端》。
- start: 450.844
  end: 455.246
  speaker: unknown
  en: Again, Teresies was written in about the year 185. So you see where we are now.
  zh: 《反异端》大约写于185年。所以你们看到我们现在的位置。
- start: 455.246
  end: 458.147
  speaker: unknown
  en: We're towards the end of the second century.
  zh: 我们接近第二世纪末。
- start: 458.227
  end: 469.151
  speaker: unknown
  en: We're basically contemporary with Clement of Alexandria, but remember I said I consider Clement more of an apologist and Irenaeus more of a theologian.
  zh: 我们基本上与亚历山大的革利免是同时代的，但记住我说过，我认为革利免更像是护教学者，而爱任纽更像是神学家。
- start: 469.852
  end: 480.158
  speaker: unknown
  en: But again, Teresies is written, again, because of various forms of Gnosticism, and he goes into great detail  about all the different Gnostic teachers.
  zh: 但《反异端》再次写成，是因为各种形式的诺斯替主义，他详细描述了所有不同的诺斯替教师。
- start: 480.359
  end: 485.402
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so the stuff we know about Gnosticism, a lot of it comes from Irenaeus.
  zh: 所以我们知道的关于诺斯替主义的东西，很多都来自爱任纽。
- start: 485.403
  end: 494.549
  speaker: unknown
  en: And you might say, well, wait a minute, didn't we say up front that we can't always trust what the early theologians say about their opponents?
  zh: 你可能会说，等等，我们不是说过我们不能总是相信早期神学家对他们对手的描述吗？
- start: 494.549
  end: 496.37
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in general, that's true.
  zh: 一般来说，这是对的。
- start: 496.61
  end: 507.598
  speaker: unknown
  en: Although, when we discovered, not me, I wasn't born yet, but when people discovered actual Gnostic documents, it turns out he's actually pretty accurate.
  zh: 不过，当我们发现，不是我，我还没出生，但当人们发现实际的诺斯替文献时，事实证明他实际上相当准确。
- start: 507.796
  end: 513.599
  speaker: unknown
  en: When he describes what the Gnostics believed and what the different Gnostic schools of thought taught.
  zh: 当他描述诺斯替主义者的信仰和不同诺斯替学派的教义时。
- start: 513.599
  end: 518.421
  speaker: unknown
  en: And all that Gnostic stuff is in the textbook, so you can read that to your heart's content.
  zh: 所有那些诺斯替的东西都在教科书里，所以你可以尽情阅读。
- start: 518.421
  end: 529.887
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the idea is here that Irenaeus is trying to expose and then warn Christians about what Gnosticism really is.
  zh: 但这里的意思是爱任纽试图揭露并警告基督徒诺斯替主义的真相。
- start: 530.962
  end: 535.423
  speaker: unknown
  en: And he counters Gnosticism with apostolic succession.
  zh: 他用使徒继承来反驳诺斯替主义。
- start: 535.944
  end: 538.644
  speaker: unknown
  en: Part of his argument is, hey, look, I'm a bishop.
  zh: 他的部分论点是，嘿，看，我是一个主教。
- start: 539.145
  end: 546.307
  speaker: unknown
  en: If there was secret knowledge, I'd know it, because it would have been passed down through the apostolic succession.
  zh: 如果有秘密知识，我会知道，因为它会通过使徒继承传下来。
- start: 546.527
  end: 553.249
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, since nobody told me about any secret knowledge, there must not be any.
  zh: 所以，既然没有人告诉我任何秘密知识，那就一定没有。
- start: 553.249
  end: 557.61
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, the Gnostics actually had the answer to that.
  zh: 现在，诺斯替主义者实际上对此有答案。
- start: 557.867
  end: 561.588
  speaker: unknown
  en: Their answer was, well, we have our own apostolic succession.
  zh: 他们的答案是，好吧，我们有自己的使徒继承。
- start: 561.769
  end: 585.964
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so the Gnostics would argue that the apostles Peter, James, and John were really sort of ignorant as to what the real deal was, and Jesus told the secret knowledge to Thomas, or to his brother James, or one of these other sort of characters, and they passed down the real secret knowledge that the Gnostics now teach.
  zh: 所以诺斯替主义者会争辩说，使徒彼得、雅各和约翰实际上对真正的情况一无所知，耶稣把秘密知识告诉了多马，或他的兄弟雅各，或其他一些人，他们传下了诺斯替主义者现在教导的真正秘密知识。
- start: 585.964
  end: 587.085
  speaker: unknown
  en: So that would be their argument.
  zh: 所以这将是他们的论点。
- start: 587.085
  end: 588.486
  speaker: unknown
  en: But anyway, you get the idea.
  zh: 但无论如何，你明白了。
- start: 588.486
  end: 607.459
  speaker: unknown
  en: Apostolic succession becomes an argument against anyone who says they know something the bishops don't. The other thing that Irenaeus is very serious about is connecting the Old Testament with the New Testament.
  zh: 使徒继承成为反对任何声称知道主教不知道的事情的论据。爱任纽非常重视的另一件事是将旧约与新约联系起来。
- start: 607.579
  end: 618.324
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because again, the Gnostics reject the Old Testament as the product of, or the book about,  Yes, the Creator God, but the Creator God isn't good.
  zh: 因为诺斯替主义者再次拒绝旧约，认为它是创造神的产物或关于创造神的书，但创造神并不好。
- start: 618.324
  end: 627.229
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Creator God is evil or inept, and creation was a big mistake, and this whole world is sort of half-baked, and it's a big problem.
  zh: 创造神是邪恶的或无能的，创造是一个大错误，这个世界是半成品，这是一个大问题。
- start: 627.229
  end: 631.971
  speaker: unknown
  en: And that's why there's evil in the world, because this Old Testament God created evil.
  zh: 这就是为什么世界上有邪恶，因为这个旧约的神创造了邪恶。
- start: 631.971
  end: 649.033
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, to argue against that, Irenaeus is showing the continuity between the Old Testament and the New Testament, and so he's going to use typology, we talked about that earlier, and says creation was not a mistake,  In fact, Christ himself is the agent of creation.
  zh: 所以，为了反驳这一点，爱任纽展示了旧约和新约之间的连续性，因此他将使用预表论，我们之前谈过，并说创造不是一个错误，事实上，基督自己是创造的代理人。
- start: 649.033
  end: 652.534
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is exactly what we read at the beginning of the Fourth Gospel.
  zh: 这正是我们在第四福音开头读到的。
- start: 652.534
  end: 656.235
  speaker: unknown
  en: Through him all things were made, and nothing was made without him.
  zh: 万物都是借着他造的，没有一样不是借着他造的。
- start: 656.795
  end: 663.097
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the Old Testament God is, in fact, the one whom Jesus called Father.
  zh: 所以旧约的神，实际上就是耶稣称为圣父的那位。
- start: 663.158
  end: 679.866
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in fact, by using typology, we can actually see Christ not only foreshadowed in the Old Testament,  But we can also see Christ himself in the Old Testament when we see things like the angel of the Lord visiting people.
  zh: 事实上，通过使用预表论，我们不仅可以在旧约中看到基督的预表，还可以在看到主的使者拜访人们时看到基督自己。
- start: 679.866
  end: 683.207
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's Jesus popping up in his pre-existent state.
  zh: 那是耶稣在他先存状态下出现。
- start: 683.247
  end: 689.45
  speaker: unknown
  en: So we have cases where Jesus himself can be seen in the Old Testament.
  zh: 所以我们有一些情况可以在旧约中看到耶稣自己。
- start: 692.256
  end: 711.885
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's true, he'll say, you know, I see how you might think that the Old Testament, that God in the Old Testament looks different than the God that Jesus preached, because the Gnostics were saying that Old Testament God is the mean, judgmental, angry God, and the God whom Jesus called Father, he's the nice, compassionate, sacred God.
  zh: 他说，确实，我明白你可能认为旧约中的神与耶稣所传讲的神看起来不同，因为诺斯替主义者说旧约的神是刻薄的、审判的、愤怒的神，而耶稣称为圣父的神是仁慈的、富有同情心的、神圣的神。
- start: 712.304
  end: 719.17
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, Irenaeus is saying, well, it's not that God has changed over time, but we have changed over time.
  zh: 所以，爱任纽说，不是神随着时间改变，而是我们随着时间改变。
- start: 719.17
  end: 732.543
  speaker: unknown
  en: Humanity has matured, the needs of humanity have changed, and so, throughout the different phases of human history, the relationship between God and humans changes.
  zh: 人类已经成熟，人类的需求已经改变，因此，在人类历史的不同阶段，神与人类之间的关系也在变化。
- start: 733.295
  end: 744.881
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now you may, when you read him, although you won't be reading this document, but when you read the other document, you may sense that this leads him into a kind of dispensationalism that you may be uncomfortable with.
  zh: 现在，当你读他的作品时，虽然你不会读这份文件，但当你读其他文件时，你可能会感觉到这使他陷入一种你可能不舒服的时代论。
- start: 744.881
  end: 748.463
  speaker: unknown
  en: But at any rate, that's his answer to the question.
  zh: 但无论如何，这是他对这个问题的回答。
- start: 749.323
  end: 755.572
  speaker: unknown
  en: Above all, Irenaeus is affirming  Both of the two natures of Christ.
  zh: 最重要的是，爱任纽肯定了基督的两种本性。
- start: 756.393
  end: 760.376
  speaker: unknown
  en: That Jesus Christ is both human and divine.
  zh: 耶稣基督既是人又是神。
- start: 760.396
  end: 765.721
  speaker: unknown
  en: Of course, the Gnostics would have denied his humanity, so that's the one that he stresses.
  zh: 当然，诺斯替主义者会否认他的人的本性，所以这是他强调的。
- start: 765.721
  end: 767.722
  speaker: unknown
  en: But he's affirming both natures.
  zh: 但他肯定了两种本性。
- start: 767.722
  end: 769.584
  speaker: unknown
  en: He's both human and divine.
  zh: 他既是人又是神。
- start: 771.065
  end: 774.528
  speaker: unknown
  en: But not simply human and divine.
  zh: 但不仅仅是人和神。
- start: 776.63
  end: 780.333
  speaker: unknown
  en: He is passable and impassable.
  zh: 他是可受感性和不受感性的。
- start: 780.908
  end: 783.45
  speaker: unknown
  en: Passable and impassable.
  zh: 可受感性和不受感性。
- start: 783.45
  end: 789.796
  speaker: unknown
  en: To be impassable means unchanging.
  zh: 不受感性意味着不变。
- start: 799.037
  end: 806.059
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is the thing about, you know, God doesn't change over time, even though the Old Testament seems different, God doesn't change, humanity changes.
  zh: 这就是关于神的事情，你知道，神不会随着时间改变，尽管旧约看起来不同，神不会改变，人类会改变。
- start: 806.059
  end: 807.119
  speaker: unknown
  en: Why doesn't God change?
  zh: 为什么神不会改变？
- start: 807.119
  end: 814.361
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because part of the very definition of divinity is that divinity is impassable, unchanging.
  zh: 因为神性的定义之一就是神性是不受感性、不变的。
- start: 814.361
  end: 824.5
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, if you say that, then you also have to say that about Christ, because if you're going to say Jesus Christ is divine,  Then isn't he impassable too?
  zh: 好吧，如果你这么说，那么你也必须这么说基督，因为如果你要说耶稣基督是神，那么他也不受感性吗？
- start: 824.66
  end: 825.741
  speaker: unknown
  en: But that creates a problem.
  zh: 但这就产生了一个问题。
- start: 825.741
  end: 830.362
  speaker: unknown
  en: Wait a minute, I thought he was born small and got big and grew up and learned things.
  zh: 等一下，我以为他出生时很小，然后长大，学会了很多东西。
- start: 830.362
  end: 832.703
  speaker: unknown
  en: That sounds like change to me.
  zh: 这听起来像是变化。
- start: 833.123
  end: 855.744
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, the way the mainstream theologians are going to answer this question is by saying that yes, his divine nature is impassable, but his human nature is passable, and it is in his human nature  that he is born, grows up, learns things, suffers, and dies.
  zh: 所以，主流神学家回答这个问题的方式是说，是的，他的神性是不受感性的，但他的人性是可受感性的，他在他的人性中出生、成长、学习、受苦和死亡。
- start: 855.864
  end: 867.328
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, the paradox here is that when the word becomes flesh, the impassable becomes passable.
  zh: 所以，这里的悖论是当道成肉身时，不受感性变得可受感性。
- start: 867.328
  end: 872.249
  speaker: unknown
  en: The one who could not suffer acquires the ability to suffer.
  zh: 那位不能受苦的获得了受苦的能力。
- start: 874.69
  end: 883.797
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because remember, the Ebionites had said  that because he suffered, he can't be divine.
  zh: 因为记住，伊便尼派曾说，因为他受苦，所以他不能是神。
- start: 884.979
  end: 891.024
  speaker: unknown
  en: And the Jothetics and the Gnostics on the other extreme have said, because he's divine, he could not have suffered.
  zh: 而另一极端的幻影说者和诺斯替主义者说，因为他是神，他不可能受苦。
- start: 891.325
  end: 898.732
  speaker: unknown
  en: You see, on both extremes, there's the assumption that divinity and suffering are utterly incompatible.
  zh: 你看，在两个极端上，都假设神性和受苦是完全不相容的。
- start: 899.594
  end: 903.898
  speaker: unknown
  en: And here's the mainstream church who want to be able to say he's divine and he suffered.
  zh: 而这里的主流教会想要说他是神，他也受苦。
- start: 904.071
  end: 909.696
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, the answer to the question is, he became human so that he could suffer.
  zh: 所以，问题的答案是，他成为人，以便他能受苦。
- start: 909.696
  end: 911.258
  speaker: unknown
  en: He became passable.
  zh: 他变得可受感性。
- start: 911.258
  end: 914.36
  speaker: unknown
  en: The impassable becomes passable.
  zh: 不受感性变得可受感性。
- start: 914.36
  end: 915.341
  speaker: unknown
  en: Is that a question?
  zh: 这是一个问题吗？
- start: 915.341
  end: 932.786
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, yes, in a way it is, in the sense that, in the sense that,  We've seen all along the affirmation of the two natures, he's human and divine.
  zh: 嗯，是的，从某种意义上说是的，因为我们一直看到对两种本性的肯定，他既是人又是神。
- start: 933.006
  end: 946.572
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now Irenaeus is further clarifying how he can be human and divine, how he can be passable and impassable, how he can suffer and still be divine, etc. So yes, he's further clarifying those as we go.
  zh: 现在爱任纽进一步澄清了他如何既是人又是神，如何既可受感性又不受感性，如何既能受苦又仍然是神，等等。所以是的，他在我们前进的过程中进一步澄清了这些。
- start: 948.673
  end: 968.951
  speaker: unknown
  en: But Irenaeus is quick to point out that  While we have the two natures, and while the human nature is the one that suffers and the divine nature does not, you cannot separate the human and divine by saying, well, we'll call this one Jesus and this one Christ.
  zh: 但爱任纽迅速指出，虽然我们有两种本性，虽然人性是受苦的而神性不是，你不能通过说，好吧，我们称这个为耶稣，那个为基督来分开人性和神性。
- start: 968.951
  end: 970.391
  speaker: unknown
  en: You don't get to do that.
  zh: 你不能那样做。
- start: 970.911
  end: 984.84
  speaker: unknown
  en: In fact, it was the Gnostics that  And some of the Epianites as well, but it was those folks who were experimenting with separating the concept of Christ from the man Jesus.
  zh: 事实上，是诺斯替主义者和一些伊便尼派在尝试将基督的概念与耶稣这个人分开。
- start: 985.141
  end: 988.004
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so Irenaeus is quick to point out that we don't do that.
  zh: 所以爱任纽迅速指出我们不那样做。
- start: 988.004
  end: 993.25
  speaker: unknown
  en: Jesus Christ is one person who has these two natures.
  zh: 耶稣基督是一个拥有这两种本性的人。
- start: 994.123
  end: 1003.348
  speaker: unknown
  en: And they did kind of, you know, refer to the humanity of Jesus as the son of man and the divinity of Jesus as the son of God.
  zh: 他们确实有点，你知道，把耶稣的人性称为人子，把耶稣的神性称为神子。
- start: 1003.449
  end: 1011.653
  speaker: unknown
  en: They experimented with that for a while, although in the third century they're going to nuance that a little bit and that dichotomy is going to go away.
  zh: 他们尝试了一段时间，虽然在第三世纪他们会稍微细化一下，这种二分法会消失。
- start: 1011.653
  end: 1017.937
  speaker: unknown
  en: But again, it's not the case that Jesus is the name of his humanity and Christ is the name of his divinity.
  zh: 但再次强调，耶稣不是他人性的名字，基督不是他神性的名字。
- start: 1017.937
  end: 1019.978
  speaker: unknown
  en: You can't play that game.
  zh: 你不能玩这个游戏。
- start: 1022.399
  end: 1024.62
  speaker: unknown
  en: The human state being able to change.
  zh: 人类状态是可以改变的。
- start: 1024.62
  end: 1026.06
  speaker: unknown
  en: What about the mind?
  zh: 那思想呢？
- start: 1026.34
  end: 1028.261
  speaker: unknown
  en: When I say the mind, the thoughts.
  zh: 当我说思想时，我指的是思维。
- start: 1029.601
  end: 1033.323
  speaker: unknown
  en: If I'm not mistaken, I'm not no Bible scholar.
  zh: 如果我没弄错，我不是圣经学者。
- start: 1033.323
  end: 1035.624
  speaker: unknown
  en: You're going to be one.
  zh: 你会成为一个的。
- start: 1035.624
  end: 1036.404
  speaker: unknown
  en: Hopefully.
  zh: 希望如此。
- start: 1036.404
  end: 1043.306
  speaker: unknown
  en: Jesus' mother comes to him and says there's no more wine at the wedding, correct?
  zh: 耶稣的母亲来找他说婚宴上没有酒了，对吗？
- start: 1043.446
  end: 1045.447
  speaker: unknown
  en: What does he say to her?
  zh: 他对她说了什么？
- start: 1045.447
  end: 1047.728
  speaker: unknown
  en: He says to her, you know, my time hasn't come.
  zh: 他对她说，你知道，我的时候还没有到。
- start: 1048.399
  end: 1054.982
  speaker: unknown
  en: And then he changes his mind and says, I'll do it anyway.
  zh: 然后他改变主意说，我还是会做的。
- start: 1054.982
  end: 1055.202
  speaker: unknown
  en: Right.
  zh: 对。
- start: 1055.202
  end: 1064.227
  speaker: unknown
  en: I mean, so, even, let's say that the human state can evolve and change the mind of God.
  zh: 我的意思是，即使我们说人类状态可以进化并改变神的心意。
- start: 1064.227
  end: 1065.027
  speaker: unknown
  en: Does that change?
  zh: 那会改变吗？
- start: 1065.027
  end: 1066.708
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's a huge question.
  zh: 这是一个巨大的问题。
- start: 1067.289
  end: 1074.092
  speaker: unknown
  en: You know, questions like, at what point, you know, or does he become increasingly aware of his identity?
  zh: 你知道，像这样的问题，在什么时候，或者他是否越来越意识到自己的身份？
- start: 1074.372
  end: 1076.233
  speaker: unknown
  en: Or is, you know, I mean...
  zh: 或者是，你知道，我的意思是……
- start: 1076.852
  end: 1095.202
  speaker: unknown
  en: And this is not a question that's being answered much yet, because down the road a bit, in a few weeks we're going to start to talk about questions of, well, does he have a human mind, or is the mind part divine, and all that stuff.
  zh: 而且这个问题还没有得到太多回答，因为再过几周，我们将开始讨论一些问题，比如，他是否有人的心思，或者心思的一部分是神性的，等等。
- start: 1095.202
  end: 1097.563
  speaker: unknown
  en: So we really haven't gotten there yet.
  zh: 所以我们还没有到那一步。
- start: 1097.664
  end: 1103.487
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's a great question, but right now it basically works like this.
  zh: 这是一个很好的问题，但现在基本上是这样的。
- start: 1105.094
  end: 1113.5
  speaker: unknown
  en: Anything that changes in him over time has to be assigned to the human nature.
  zh: 任何随着时间在他身上发生的变化都必须归于人性。
- start: 1113.5
  end: 1117.903
  speaker: unknown
  en: And anything that doesn't is part of the divine nature.
  zh: 任何没有变化的都是神性的一部分。
- start: 1118.003
  end: 1134.715
  speaker: unknown
  en: One of the gospel passages that would come up in this discussion is when they ask him about the end, and he says, well, no one knows the day or the hour, not even the Son, but only the Father.
  zh: 在这个讨论中会出现的福音经文之一是当他们问他关于末日的事情时，他说，没有人知道那日子和那时辰，连圣子也不知道，只有圣父知道。
- start: 1135.228
  end: 1138.009
  speaker: unknown
  en: Is he just, is he fitting?
  zh: 他只是，他合适吗？
- start: 1138.009
  end: 1140.889
  speaker: unknown
  en: We can't go down that road.
  zh: 我们不能走那条路。
- start: 1140.889
  end: 1143.73
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, okay, here's something he doesn't know.
  zh: 所以，好吧，这里有他不知道的事情。
- start: 1143.73
  end: 1147.231
  speaker: unknown
  en: He knows about it, but he admits he doesn't know it.
  zh: 他知道这件事，但他承认他不知道。
- start: 1147.231
  end: 1148.951
  speaker: unknown
  en: So what does that mean?
  zh: 那是什么意思？
- start: 1149.031
  end: 1151.672
  speaker: unknown
  en: There's a lot of speculation that goes on throughout the history of the church.
  zh: 在教会历史上有很多猜测。
- start: 1151.672
  end: 1155.753
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, his human nature didn't know it, but his divine nature did.
  zh: 嗯，他的人性不知道，但他的神性知道。
- start: 1155.753
  end: 1157.793
  speaker: unknown
  en: How do you separate the two?
  zh: 你如何分开这两者？
- start: 1157.793
  end: 1159.694
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, exactly, that becomes the problem.
  zh: 是的，确切地说，这就成了问题。
- start: 1159.694
  end: 1164.935
  speaker: unknown
  en: So anyway, people are just starting to ask these questions and there's no solid answer yet.
  zh: 所以无论如何，人们刚刚开始问这些问题，还没有确切的答案。
- start: 1165.346
  end: 1170.85
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's a great thought, but at this point in history I'm going to ask you to put that on the shelf for a while.
  zh: 这是一个很好的想法，但在历史的这个阶段，我要请你暂时搁置一下。
- start: 1170.85
  end: 1174.673
  speaker: unknown
  en: We'll get around to more of that kind of stuff.
  zh: 我们会谈到更多那类事情。
- start: 1175.073
  end: 1181.618
  speaker: unknown
  en: Okay, so the document that you are going to read by Irenaeus is called Proof of the Apostolic Preaching.
  zh: 好的，你们要读的爱任纽的文件叫做《使徒宣讲的证明》。
- start: 1182.579
  end: 1191.485
  speaker: unknown
  en: Sometimes it's called Demonstration of the Apostolic Preaching, but I think in my stuff it's called Proof of the Apostolic Preaching.
  zh: 有时它被称为《使徒宣讲的展示》，但我认为在我的资料中它被称为《使徒宣讲的证明》。
- start: 1191.686
  end: 1204.743
  speaker: unknown
  en: And it's written  In the late 180s, so if against heresies is written about 185, this one's probably written after that, but still probably in the 180s.
  zh: 它写于180年代后期，所以如果《反异端》写于185年左右，这本可能写于之后，但仍然可能在180年代。
- start: 1206.804
  end: 1221.111
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now this one's a lot shorter, although when you read it, it's not going to seem super short, but it's a lot, believe me, it's a lot shorter than against heresies, and it was probably meant to be read out aloud in Christian assembly.
  zh: 这本书要短得多，虽然当你读它时，它不会显得特别短，但它确实比《反异端》短得多，相信我，它短得多，而且它可能是为了在基督徒聚会中大声朗读而写的。
- start: 1222.094
  end: 1232.416
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's in the literary form of a public letter, so it kind of has the same form as some of Paul's letters, although you may feel like it's a little bit longer than that.
  zh: 它是以公开信的文学形式写成的，所以它有点像保罗的一些书信，尽管你可能觉得它有点长。
- start: 1232.617
  end: 1239.018
  speaker: unknown
  en: And it's actually kind of a hybrid of apologetics and catechesis.
  zh: 它实际上是护教学和教理讲授的混合体。
- start: 1239.858
  end: 1241.839
  speaker: unknown
  en: But it's written for an internal audience.
  zh: 但它是为内部听众写的。
- start: 1241.839
  end: 1248.14
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's written for a Christian audience, and it uses Scripture to support the arguments.
  zh: 它是为基督徒听众写的，并使用圣经来支持论点。
- start: 1248.14
  end: 1261.53
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, most of the Scripture quotations in this are actually from the Old Testament,  But that's the point, because remember, Irenaeus is trying to demonstrate how Christ fulfills the Old Testament prophecies, how the Old Testament and the New are connected.
  zh: 现在，这里面的大多数圣经引用实际上来自旧约，但这正是重点，因为记住，爱任纽试图证明基督如何应验旧约的预言，旧约和新约如何连接。
- start: 1262.01
  end: 1268.433
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in doing that, he's trying to teach and encourage the faith of Christians.
  zh: 在这样做的过程中，他试图教导和鼓励基督徒的信仰。
- start: 1269.374
  end: 1276.796
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is a great document because it's an excellent summary of Christian theology up to this point.
  zh: 这是一个伟大的文件，因为它是到目前为止基督教神学的一个优秀总结。
- start: 1278.895
  end: 1286.318
  speaker: unknown
  en: I would say that, you know, end of the second century, this is the state of the art for Christian theology, right here.
  zh: 我会说，你知道，第二世纪末，这是基督教神学的最新状态，就在这里。
- start: 1286.838
  end: 1291.58
  speaker: unknown
  en: Including, you're going to get a window into how he does his exegesis.
  zh: 包括，你将看到他如何进行释经。
- start: 1291.58
  end: 1297.622
  speaker: unknown
  en: So some of the stuff we were just talking about in the last hour, you'll see, you'll notice that he says New Testament.
  zh: 所以我们刚才在上一小时谈到的一些东西，你会看到，你会注意到他说新约。
- start: 1298.482
  end: 1300.883
  speaker: unknown
  en: He calls it the New Testament in this document.
  zh: 他在这份文件中称之为新约。
- start: 1301.594
  end: 1315.943
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, on the other hand, you'll also notice some throwbacks to older kinds of thinking, like he seems to believe in the existence of seven heavens, or seven layers of heaven, and stuff like that.
  zh: 另一方面，你还会注意到一些旧思维的回归，比如他似乎相信七重天或七层天的存在，等等。
- start: 1316.163
  end: 1319.005
  speaker: unknown
  en: He also gets some of his history wrong.
  zh: 他也有一些历史搞错了。
- start: 1319.198
  end: 1325.961
  speaker: unknown
  en: He thinks Claudius was the emperor during Jesus' ministry, so he's off by about five years or so.
  zh: 他认为克劳狄乌斯是耶稣传道期间的皇帝，所以他大约错了五年左右。
- start: 1325.961
  end: 1331.124
  speaker: unknown
  en: He's not quite clear on when exactly Jesus was doing his thing.
  zh: 他不太清楚耶稣具体是在什么时候做他的事工。
- start: 1332.778
  end: 1338.559
  speaker: unknown
  en: And you'll also notice that he refers to the shepherd as Scripture.
  zh: 你还会注意到他把《牧人》称为圣经。
- start: 1340.12
  end: 1343.32
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in fact, it again terrifies me that he actually calls it Scripture.
  zh: 事实上，他竟然称它为圣经，这再次让我感到震惊。
- start: 1343.32
  end: 1354.722
  speaker: unknown
  en: So here's a case where one of those documents that didn't make it into our New Testament is being quoted here and referred to as though it ought to be in the canon.
  zh: 所以这里有一个例子，其中一个没有进入我们新约的文件在这里被引用，并被称为它应该在正典中。
- start: 1355.762
  end: 1381.354
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, we're still in  A time when I would refer to Christology as Logos Christology, the Christology of the Word, based again on what the Fourth Gospel, what John is doing at the beginning, calling Jesus the Logos, or the Word of God, and talking about how He is pre-existent.
  zh: 现在，我们仍然处于一个我称之为道基督论的时期，基于第四福音的内容，约翰在开头称耶稣为道，或神的道，并谈论他如何是先存的。
- start: 1381.695
  end: 1392.363
  speaker: unknown
  en: So you'll notice when we talk about the two natures,  Of course, the divine nature is pre-existing, existing before the human nature.
  zh: 所以你会注意到，当我们谈论两种本性时，当然，神性是先存的，存在于人性之前。
- start: 1392.363
  end: 1394.864
  speaker: unknown
  en: The human nature has a beginning point.
  zh: 人性有一个起点。
- start: 1394.944
  end: 1398.586
  speaker: unknown
  en: It would be at the Annunciation, at the conception of Jesus.
  zh: 那就是在天使报喜时，在耶稣受孕时。
- start: 1398.586
  end: 1401.288
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the divine nature has no beginning point.
  zh: 但神性没有起点。
- start: 1401.288
  end: 1407.191
  speaker: unknown
  en: The divine nature existed before the human nature.
  zh: 神性在人性之前就存在。
- start: 1407.412
  end: 1432.781
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so that means that the Logos, the divine nature of Christ,  If you know where to look in the Old Testament, you can see him in what we call the theophanies of the Old Testament, the manifestations of the divine in the Old Testament.
  zh: 所以这意味着道，基督的神性，如果你知道在旧约中哪里找，你可以在我们称之为旧约的神显现中看到他，旧约中的神的显现。
- start: 1432.781
  end: 1446.399
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, whenever somebody sees God or some appearance of God in the Old Testament,  That they're really seeing Jesus in his pre-existent state.
  zh: 现在，每当有人在旧约中看到神或神的显现时，他们实际上是在看到耶稣在他先存的状态。
- start: 1446.399
  end: 1450.36
  speaker: unknown
  en: They're seeing the pre-existent Christ, the divine nature.
  zh: 他们看到的是先存的基督，神性。
- start: 1450.36
  end: 1453.601
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because no one can see God and live.
  zh: 因为没有人能见神而存活。
- start: 1453.601
  end: 1459.783
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is a thing you get in a couple of passages in the Old Testament and it gets quoted in the New.
  zh: 这是你在旧约中的几段经文中看到的，并在新约中被引用。
- start: 1459.783
  end: 1461.444
  speaker: unknown
  en: No one can see God and live.
  zh: 没有人能见神而存活。
- start: 1461.444
  end: 1463.064
  speaker: unknown
  en: Have you seen the movie Dogma?
  zh: 你看过电影《教条》吗？
- start: 1463.823
  end: 1469.305
  speaker: unknown
  en: When God finally speaks to Ben Affleck, his head blows up.
  zh: 当神最终对本·阿弗莱克说话时，他的头爆炸了。
- start: 1469.305
  end: 1471.566
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, no one can see God and live.
  zh: 所以，没有人能见神而存活。
- start: 1471.566
  end: 1478.028
  speaker: unknown
  en: So if you think you're seeing God, you're not seeing God the Father, you're seeing God the Son.
  zh: 所以如果你认为你在见神，你不是在见圣父，而是在见圣子。
- start: 1479.429
  end: 1487.831
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so that's how they interpret these things, because God the Father cannot be limited in space and time.
  zh: 所以他们就是这样解释这些事情的，因为圣父不能被时间和空间限制。
- start: 1487.831
  end: 1498.756
  speaker: unknown
  en: God the Father cannot be  limited to one place, or as we say, circumscribed by space and time.
  zh: 圣父不能被限制在一个地方，或者我们说，被时间和空间限制。
- start: 1501.898
  end: 1511.643
  speaker: unknown
  en: So if you ever think you're seeing God in one place, manifest in place in space and time, again, you're not seeing God the Father, you're seeing God the Son.
  zh: 所以如果你认为你在一个地方看到神，在时间和空间中显现，你不是在见圣父，而是在见圣子。
- start: 1511.643
  end: 1524.182
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because even though the divine nature of the Son is by nature omnipresent,  The Son can be manifest in one place at a time if He wants to.
  zh: 因为即使圣子的神性本质上是无所不在的，圣子如果愿意，可以在一个时间显现在一个地方。
- start: 1524.802
  end: 1533.605
  speaker: unknown
  en: And even though He has not acquired a human nature yet in the Old Testament, He can even be tangible if He wants to.
  zh: 即使在旧约中他还没有获得人性，如果他愿意，他甚至可以是有形的。
- start: 1533.829
  end: 1538.191
  speaker: unknown
  en: And there's all kinds of, throughout some of the early writers, there's all kinds of explanations for this.
  zh: 在一些早期作家中，有各种各样的解释。
- start: 1538.191
  end: 1545.873
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, he's the agent of creation after all, so if he wants to, you know, pull some molecules together and make himself tangible, he can do that.
  zh: 毕竟，他是创造的代理人，所以如果他愿意，你知道，把一些分子聚在一起，使自己变得有形，他可以做到。
- start: 1545.873
  end: 1556.001
  speaker: unknown
  en: But so, you know, whenever you see, like, the appearance of the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament,  Or the visitation of the angels to Abraham.
  zh: 但是，你知道，每当你看到，比如，旧约中主的使者的显现，或者天使拜访亚伯拉罕。
- start: 1556.001
  end: 1563.922
  speaker: unknown
  en: The three, as you read through the passage, it's called three men and one seems to be special.
  zh: 这三位，当你读这段经文时，被称为三个人，其中一个似乎特别。
- start: 1564.402
  end: 1569.043
  speaker: unknown
  en: But again, that's the manifestation of the pre-incarnate divine nature of Christ.
  zh: 但再次强调，那是基督先存神性的显现。
- start: 1569.043
  end: 1569.643
  speaker: unknown
  en: Question?
  zh: 问题？
- start: 1569.643
  end: 1578.505
  speaker: unknown
  en: So would they have believed that when the angel visited Joseph and Mary that that was Jesus?
  zh: 那么他们会相信当天使拜访约瑟和马利亚时那是耶稣吗？
- start: 1578.909
  end: 1580.671
  speaker: unknown
  en: It could be.
  zh: 有可能。
- start: 1580.671
  end: 1585.775
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now again, if we look at all the early Christian interpreters, they might disagree on that.
  zh: 现在再次强调，如果我们看所有早期的基督教解释者，他们可能对此有不同意见。
- start: 1585.775
  end: 1587.797
  speaker: unknown
  en: Some might say, yeah, that was Jesus.
  zh: 有些人可能会说，是的，那是耶稣。
- start: 1587.797
  end: 1590.359
  speaker: unknown
  en: Some might say, well, that was just an irregular angel.
  zh: 有些人可能会说，那只是一个普通的天使。
- start: 1590.359
  end: 1593.702
  speaker: unknown
  en: But in this other passage, that's the free and current Christ.
  zh: 但在另一段经文中，那是自由和现存的基督。
- start: 1593.702
  end: 1600.047
  speaker: unknown
  en: Like, for example, they don't all agree on who spoke to Moses in the burning bush.
  zh: 比如，他们并不都同意在燃烧的荆棘中对摩西说话的是谁。
- start: 1600.368
  end: 1606.933
  speaker: unknown
  en: Some of them will say, oh, well, that was the voice of the Father, because he didn't really see God, he just heard God.
  zh: 他们中的一些人会说，哦，那是圣父的声音，因为他并没有真正看到神，他只是听到了神。
- start: 1607.182
  end: 1645.273
  speaker: unknown
  en: The divine nature of Christ is pre-existent, and when the divine nature acquires its humanity or the Word becomes flesh,  The incarnation is presented as a descent, coming down from the divine realm to the human realm in order to voluntarily go to his death.
  zh: 基督的神性是先存的，当神性获得人性或道成肉身时，道成肉身被呈现为一种降临，从神的领域降到人类领域，以便自愿去死。
- start: 1646.435
  end: 1651.452
  speaker: unknown
  en: Notice that the death of Christ  He has to be voluntary.
  zh: 注意基督的死亡必须是自愿的。
- start: 1651.452
  end: 1653.233
  speaker: unknown
  en: He doesn't die against his will.
  zh: 他不会违背自己的意愿而死。
- start: 1653.233
  end: 1653.533
  speaker: unknown
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 1653.533
  end: 1655.714
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because ultimately he's divine.
  zh: 因为最终他是神。
- start: 1655.714
  end: 1658.856
  speaker: unknown
  en: And a divine being cannot be forced to do anything.
  zh: 而神性存在不能被迫做任何事情。
- start: 1658.996
  end: 1662.758
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, he has to die voluntarily.
  zh: 所以，他必须自愿去死。
- start: 1662.758
  end: 1673.044
  speaker: unknown
  en: Incidentally, I mentioned this earlier, the binding of Isaac becomes a type of the crucifixion of Christ, right?
  zh: 顺便说一下，我之前提到过，以撒的捆绑成为基督受难的预表，对吧？
- start: 1673.044
  end: 1674.624
  speaker: unknown
  en: Isaac, remember the story?
  zh: 以撒，记得这个故事吗？
- start: 1674.845
  end: 1676.825
  speaker: unknown
  en: Abraham is told to sacrifice his son.
  zh: 亚伯拉罕被告知要献祭他的儿子。
- start: 1676.825
  end: 1678.946
  speaker: unknown
  en: So he brings his son Isaac.
  zh: 所以他带着他的儿子以撒。
- start: 1678.946
  end: 1681.446
  speaker: unknown
  en: They're going to go up to the mountain, to the altar.
  zh: 他们要上山，到祭坛那里。
- start: 1681.446
  end: 1688.048
  speaker: unknown
  en: Hey Dad, we got the wood and the knife and the fire.
  zh: 嘿，爸爸，我们有木头、刀和火。
- start: 1688.048
  end: 1690.449
  speaker: unknown
  en: Where's the sacrifice, Dad?
  zh: 祭品在哪里，爸爸？
- start: 1690.449
  end: 1690.709
  speaker: unknown
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 1690.709
  end: 1691.749
  speaker: unknown
  en: Okay, so you know the story.
  zh: 好吧，所以你知道这个故事。
- start: 1691.749
  end: 1703.016
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the interesting thing about this is that if you track  The artistic representations of the binding of Isaac throughout history, Isaac gets older and older and older.
  zh: 但有趣的是，如果你追踪历史上以撒捆绑的艺术表现，以撒变得越来越老。
- start: 1703.016
  end: 1707.08
  speaker: unknown
  en: Originally, he's a kid, but that's not going to work.
  zh: 最初，他是个孩子，但那样行不通。
- start: 1707.08
  end: 1707.72
  speaker: unknown
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 1707.72
  end: 1715.207
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because if he's a type of Christ, he has to go to the altar voluntarily.
  zh: 因为如果他是基督的预表，他必须自愿去祭坛。
- start: 1715.628
  end: 1719.672
  speaker: unknown
  en: Again, it makes Abraham look a little better, I guess.
  zh: 再次强调，我想这让亚伯拉罕看起来好一点。
- start: 1721.351
  end: 1729.017
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the point is that by the time this trajectory comes to its fullest, he's a full-grown man.
  zh: 但关键是，当这个轨迹达到最高潮时，他已经是一个成年男子。
- start: 1729.017
  end: 1735.041
  speaker: unknown
  en: I think he's a full-grown man, voluntarily going to the altar, because that's what Christ did.
  zh: 我认为他是一个成年男子，自愿去祭坛，因为那是基督所做的。
- start: 1735.041
  end: 1737.363
  speaker: unknown
  en: He voluntarily went to the cross.
  zh: 他自愿上了十字架。
- start: 1738.904
  end: 1739.624
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's an anti-type.
  zh: 这是一个反类型。
- start: 1739.624
  end: 1741.826
  speaker: unknown
  en: Wasn't it done wrong the first time?
  zh: 第一次做错了吗？
- start: 1745.889
  end: 1753.674
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, yeah, what was wrong with it is the idea that God would really want human sacrifice.
  zh: 嗯，是的，问题在于认为神真的想要人祭。
- start: 1753.835
  end: 1755.456
  speaker: unknown
  en: God doesn't really want human sacrifice.
  zh: 神并不真的想要人祭。
- start: 1755.456
  end: 1768.905
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, then God, you know, provides the substitute, which in the original context was the ram or whatever it was, and then Jesus becomes the once and for all substitute, because even with the substitute, they had to keep doing sacrifices over and over again.
  zh: 所以，然后神提供了替代品，在原始背景下是公羊或其他什么，然后耶稣成为一次性替代品，因为即使有替代品，他们也不得不一遍又一遍地进行献祭。
- start: 1768.905
  end: 1770.225
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's all book of Hebrews stuff, right?
  zh: 这都是《希伯来书》的内容，对吧？
- start: 1770.225
  end: 1773.027
  speaker: unknown
  en: But then with Jesus, it's the once and for all sacrifice.
  zh: 但对于耶稣来说，这是一次性献祭。
- start: 1773.027
  end: 1774.288
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, yeah, good question.
  zh: 所以，是的，好问题。
- start: 1776.087
  end: 1791.292
  speaker: unknown
  en: One of the most important contributions that Irenaeus gives us is that he is the first one to say that in the relationship between the Father and the Son, that the Father and the Son are one essence.
  zh: 爱任纽给我们最重要的贡献之一是他第一个说在圣父和圣子的关系中，圣父和圣子是同一实质。
- start: 1791.992
  end: 1794.153
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, what is that essence?
  zh: 那么，那是什么实质？
- start: 1798.308
  end: 1804.452
  speaker: unknown
  en: We know from where this conversation goes that that essence is the divine nature, it's divinity itself.
  zh: 我们从这段对话中知道，那实质是神性，是神性本身。
- start: 1804.452
  end: 1816.018
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the point is that we are beginning to get this language of how do we talk about the relationship between the Father and the Son so that we don't end up with two gods.
  zh: 但关键是我们开始有这种语言，如何谈论圣父和圣子的关系，以免我们最终有两个神。
- start: 1816.018
  end: 1823.649
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because if we're going to say Jesus is divine,  How is that not two gods?
  zh: 因为如果我们要说耶稣是神，那怎么不是两个神呢？
- start: 1823.649
  end: 1827.112
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's not two gods because they are one essence.
  zh: 不是两个神，因为他们是同一实质。
- start: 1827.112
  end: 1829.794
  speaker: unknown
  en: There's one God because there's one essence.
  zh: 有一个神，因为有一个实质。
- start: 1829.794
  end: 1831.895
  speaker: unknown
  en: And there's a principle behind this.
  zh: 这背后有一个原则。
- start: 1832.716
  end: 1838.701
  speaker: unknown
  en: The principle behind this is, he who is born of God, is God.
  zh: 这个原则是，凡从神生的，就是神。
- start: 1839.422
  end: 1851.928
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, to be born of God, that's the same thing as being begotten, which is  A word that's not entirely clear on the surface of it, but we're going to take the next few weeks to clarify it.
  zh: 现在，从神生的，与被生的意思相同，这是一个表面上不完全清楚的词，但我们将在接下来的几周内澄清它。
- start: 1851.968
  end: 1864.238
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the point is that whatever begottenness is, whatever beginning is, we know from Scripture that Christ is the only begotten Son of God.
  zh: 但关键是，无论被生是什么，无论起点是什么，我们从圣经中知道基督是神的独生子。
- start: 1864.578
  end: 1883.163
  speaker: unknown
  en: Whatever that is, and we sometimes refer to that as generation, that's a word I prefer, generation, that the Son is generated of the Father, whatever that is, generation produces the same essence as the generator.
  zh: 无论那是什么，我们有时称之为生成，这是我更喜欢的词，生成，圣子是从圣父生成的，无论那是什么，生成产生与生成者相同的实质。
- start: 1883.243
  end: 1889.325
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the one generator, the one begotten, is the same essence as the one begetting or generating.
  zh: 所以，生成者和被生者与生者或生成者是同一实质。
- start: 1889.325
  end: 1890.765
  speaker: unknown
  en: Does that make sense?
  zh: 这有道理吗？
- start: 1891.505
  end: 1893.706
  speaker: unknown
  en: He who is born of God is God.
  zh: 凡从神生的，就是神。
- start: 1896.953
  end: 1900.276
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, keep that in mind, because that's going to be important.
  zh: 所以，记住这一点，因为这很重要。
- start: 1900.337
  end: 1903.279
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Father and Son are of one essence.
  zh: 圣父和圣子是同一实质。
- start: 1903.279
  end: 1926.078
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, depending on which translation of the 19th Creed you may be used to, you may remember that there's essence language in there, sometimes often translated into English as one in being, so essence becomes  The Father and Son are one in being.
  zh: 现在，根据你习惯的《尼西亚信经》的翻译，你可能记得里面有实质的语言，有时常被翻译成英文为同一存在，所以实质变成圣父和圣子是同一存在。
- start: 1926.078
  end: 1928.24
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's what it means to be one essence.
  zh: 这就是同一实质的意思。
- start: 1928.301
  end: 1935.929
  speaker: unknown
  en: For Irenaeus and a lot of the early theologians, it also means they are one in power.
  zh: 对于爱任纽和许多早期神学家来说，这也意味着他们在权能上是一体的。
- start: 1935.929
  end: 1940.254
  speaker: unknown
  en: That there is one essence and one power that the Father and Son share.
  zh: 圣父和圣子共享一个实质和一个权能。
- start: 1940.47
  end: 1944.735
  speaker: unknown
  en: So in that sense, Father and Son are one.
  zh: 所以在这个意义上，圣父和圣子是一体的。
- start: 1944.735
  end: 1947.537
  speaker: unknown
  en: Remember Jesus' words, the Father and I are one.
  zh: 记住耶稣的话，圣父和我是一体的。
- start: 1947.538
  end: 1958.65
  speaker: unknown
  en: But Jesus also said, in the same document, the Father is greater than I. So wait a minute, there's also order among the persons of the Trinity.
  zh: 但耶稣也在同一文件中说，圣父比我大。所以等一下，三位一体的位格之间也有秩序。
- start: 1958.65
  end: 1960.191
  speaker: unknown
  en: There's also hierarchy.
  zh: 也有等级。
- start: 1961.159
  end: 1966.703
  speaker: unknown
  en: Sometimes referred to as economy, but that word is used a lot of different ways and so I tend to avoid it.
  zh: 有时称为经济，但这个词有很多不同的用法，所以我倾向于避免使用它。
- start: 1966.823
  end: 1975.189
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the point is that a lot of folks nowadays are trained to think that hierarchy is automatically a bad thing.
  zh: 但关键是，现在很多人被训练成认为等级自动是坏事。
- start: 1976.756
  end: 1990.243
  speaker: unknown
  en: But what we're going to find out as we go through this is that if there were no hierarchy in the Trinity, then we would not know how to make a distinction between the three persons of the Trinity.
  zh: 但我们在研究这个问题时会发现，如果三位一体中没有等级，我们就不知道如何区分三位一体的三个位格。
- start: 1990.243
  end: 1996.926
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, we want to say the Father and Son are one, but we don't want to go so far as to say the Father and Son are one and the same.
  zh: 换句话说，我们想说圣父和圣子是一体的，但我们不想说圣父和圣子完全相同。
- start: 1996.966
  end: 2004.851
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, the distinction between father and son, how are they not exactly identical, is that there is this hierarchy.
  zh: 所以，圣父和圣子的区别，他们如何不完全相同，就是因为有这个等级。
- start: 2004.851
  end: 2007.332
  speaker: unknown
  en: So look for that, look for the hierarchy.
  zh: 所以要注意这一点，注意这个等级。
- start: 2007.932
  end: 2013.876
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's presented in Irenaeus as kind of a hierarchy of approachability, or transcendence.
  zh: 在爱任纽的著作中，它被呈现为一种接近性或超越性的等级。
- start: 2013.876
  end: 2021.82
  speaker: unknown
  en: The father is more transcendent and therefore less approachable, whereas the son seems to be a little more approachable.
  zh: 圣父更超越，因此更难接近，而圣子似乎更容易接近一些。
- start: 2022.36
  end: 2032.457
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's not a...  It's not a way of describing if it's going to stick or if it's going to be very helpful long term, but it kind of starts out that way.
  zh: 这不是一个……这不是一种描述它是否会坚持下去或是否会长期有用的方法，但它有点这样开始。
- start: 2032.457
  end: 2038.839
  speaker: unknown
  en: A more concrete way that it gets described is in terms of visibility.
  zh: 一种更具体的描述方式是从可见性方面。
- start: 2039.42
  end: 2044.122
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Father is ultimately always invisible.
  zh: 圣父最终总是不可见的。
- start: 2044.122
  end: 2045.942
  speaker: unknown
  en: No one can see God and live.
  zh: 没有人能见神而存活。
- start: 2047.222
  end: 2053.585
  speaker: unknown
  en: While he's invisible by nature of his divinity, he can be visible when he wants to.
  zh: 虽然他因其神性本质上是不可见的，但他想要时可以显现。
- start: 2053.646
  end: 2057.507
  speaker: unknown
  en: And obviously, during his incarnation, he's invisible and tangible.
  zh: 显然，在他道成肉身期间，他是不可见的也是有形的。
- start: 2057.588
  end: 2061.49
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, there's this hierarchy of visibility as well.
  zh: 所以，也有这种可见性的等级。
- start: 2067.353
  end: 2080.045
  speaker: unknown
  en: The hierarchy of the Trinity, then, when you start to bring the Spirit into it, is that  If you want to get to the Father, you've got to go through the Son.
  zh: 那么，当你开始把圣灵带入其中时，三位一体的等级是，如果你想接近圣父，你必须通过圣子。
- start: 2080.045
  end: 2084.427
  speaker: unknown
  en: If you want to get to the Son, you have to go through the Spirit.
  zh: 如果你想接近圣子，你必须通过圣灵。
- start: 2085.687
  end: 2094.871
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the Spirit is in the Church, so ultimately what they'll say is, if you want to get to the Father, you have to go through the Church, because the Church is where you receive the Spirit in the sacraments.
  zh: 但圣灵在教会中，所以最终他们会说，如果你想接近圣父，你必须通过教会，因为教会是你在圣事中接受圣灵的地方。
- start: 2099.68
  end: 2105.465
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so you can see this sort of hierarchy in terms of how God relates to us, how we relate to God.
  zh: 所以你可以看到这种等级，关于神如何与我们相关，我们如何与神相关。
- start: 2107.548
  end: 2112.612
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Son then becomes the Father's messenger.
  zh: 然后圣子成为圣父的使者。
- start: 2113.073
  end: 2118.397
  speaker: unknown
  en: And sometimes when you read these documents, they will refer to the Son as the Father's angel.
  zh: 有时当你读这些文件时，他们会称圣子为圣父的天使。
- start: 2119.158
  end: 2122.939
  speaker: unknown
  en: But that's because the Greek word angelos simply means messenger.
  zh: 但那是因为希腊词angelos只是意味着使者。
- start: 2122.939
  end: 2128.8
  speaker: unknown
  en: They're not implying that the Son is a created spiritual being, like a garden variety angel.
  zh: 他们并不是暗示圣子是一个被造的灵性存在，像普通的天使。
- start: 2129.041
  end: 2132.401
  speaker: unknown
  en: They're saying that the Son is the Father's messenger.
  zh: 他们说圣子是圣父的使者。
- start: 2132.401
  end: 2138.163
  speaker: unknown
  en: So again, notice the hierarchy here, because the Father is the sender, the Son is the messenger.
  zh: 所以再次注意这里的等级，因为圣父是差遣者，圣子是使者。
- start: 2138.163
  end: 2144.044
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in that relationship, the sender has an authority over the messenger.
  zh: 在这种关系中，差遣者对使者有权威。
- start: 2144.044
  end: 2146.625
  speaker: unknown
  en: The messenger comes with the sender's message.
  zh: 使者带着差遣者的信息来。
- start: 2146.892
  end: 2157.241
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, these are all kinds of ways that these early theologians are trying to describe the distinction between the three verses of the Trinity in terms of a hierarchy.
  zh: 所以，这些早期神学家试图通过各种方式描述三位一体的三个位格之间的区别。
- start: 2157.282
  end: 2166.23
  speaker: unknown
  en: But again, it's not a hierarchy of divinity, because no one is saying at this point that the Father is more divine than the Son or anything like that.
  zh: 但再次强调，这不是神性的等级，因为此时没有人说圣父比圣子更神圣或类似的事情。
- start: 2166.23
  end: 2169.393
  speaker: unknown
  en: The divinity is the essence, so they are the same essence.
  zh: 神性是实质，所以他们是同一实质。
- start: 2169.393
  end: 2170.254
  speaker: unknown
  en: Question here.
  zh: 这里有个问题。
- start: 2170.254
  end: 2177.574
  speaker: unknown
  en: If the Father is the sender,  And then the Son is the messenger sent by the Father.
  zh: 如果圣父是差遣者，然后圣子是被圣父差遣的使者。
- start: 2177.574
  end: 2180.016
  speaker: unknown
  en: What is the Spirit?
  zh: 那圣灵是什么？
- start: 2180.016
  end: 2184.098
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, they don't really say.
  zh: 嗯，他们并没有真的说。
- start: 2184.098
  end: 2188.94
  speaker: unknown
  en: The implication is that the Spirit is the messenger.
  zh: 暗示是圣灵是使者。
- start: 2191.182
  end: 2194.784
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, I don't know of anyone who says it that way.
  zh: 嗯，我不知道有谁这样说。
- start: 2194.784
  end: 2197.185
  speaker: unknown
  en: It sort of implies that the Spirit is...
  zh: 这有点暗示圣灵是……
- start: 2197.622
  end: 2205.544
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Spirit is the next generation messenger in the sense that the Father sends the Son, the Son comes during His ministry.
  zh: 圣灵是下一代使者，意思是圣父差遣圣子，圣子在他的事工期间来。
- start: 2205.544
  end: 2211.025
  speaker: unknown
  en: When His ministry on earth is over, in a tangible sense, then He sends the Spirit.
  zh: 当他在地上的事工结束时，在有形的意义上，他就差遣圣灵。
- start: 2211.145
  end: 2214.366
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so the Spirit is the messenger for the age of the Church.
  zh: 所以圣灵是教会时代的使者。
- start: 2214.366
  end: 2218.346
  speaker: unknown
  en: But I may be saying too much because it's not that clear.
  zh: 但我可能说得太多了，因为这并不那么清楚。
- start: 2218.987
  end: 2226.615
  speaker: unknown
  en: Remember that during this time,  The argument is over who is Jesus and what is his relationship to God, i.e. the Father.
  zh: 记住，在这个时期，争论的是耶稣是谁以及他与神，即圣父的关系是什么。
- start: 2226.615
  end: 2229.979
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, there isn't as much talk about the Holy Spirit yet.
  zh: 所以，还没有那么多关于圣灵的讨论。
- start: 2229.979
  end: 2231.421
  speaker: unknown
  en: There is some, but not as much.
  zh: 有一些，但不多。
- start: 2231.421
  end: 2232.283
  speaker: unknown
  en: Question here?
  zh: 这里有问题吗？
- start: 2232.283
  end: 2234.746
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, I'm just going off of that, too.
  zh: 是的，我也正是基于此。
- start: 2234.746
  end: 2236.668
  speaker: unknown
  en: I don't remember...
  zh: 我不记得了……
- start: 2237.329
  end: 2254.799
  speaker: unknown
  en: Who might have said this, but didn't one of the early Philistines think that the spirit itself might have been a message from the Acts of the Apostles when the whole Pentecost, the random fire came down upon them?
  zh: 谁可能说过这个，但不是有一个早期的非利士人认为圣灵本身可能是《使徒行传》中的信息，当整个五旬节，随机的火降临在他们身上时？
- start: 2255.146
  end: 2256.827
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, you know, that's a good point.
  zh: 是的，你知道，这是一个好点子。
- start: 2256.827
  end: 2266.77
  speaker: unknown
  en: You do get some, I don't know if any of you specifically said that the Holy Spirit was the message, but you do get some analogies along those lines.
  zh: 你确实会得到一些，我不知道你们中是否有人具体说过圣灵是信息，但你确实会得到一些类似的类比。
- start: 2266.77
  end: 2288.182
  speaker: unknown
  en: Like, Irenaeus, for example, uses this analogy of anointing, where he says the Father is the one who anoints, the Son is the anointed one, and the Spirit is the oil of anointment, which sort of makes the Spirit seem  Less of a divine person and more of the glue that holds them together.
  zh: 比如，爱任纽使用了这个膏抹的类比，他说圣父是膏抹者，圣子是被膏者，圣灵是膏油，这使得圣灵看起来不像是一个神性位格，而更像是将他们粘合在一起的胶水。
- start: 2288.182
  end: 2296.405
  speaker: unknown
  en: Even Augustine experimented with stuff like the Father is the lover, the Son is the beloved, and the Spirit is the love that binds them.
  zh: 甚至奥古斯丁也尝试过类似的东西，比如圣父是爱者，圣子是被爱者，圣灵是将他们联系在一起的爱。
- start: 2296.405
  end: 2308.451
  speaker: unknown
  en: But all those things are problematic in the sense that it sort of leaves the Spirit somehow less of a person, of a divine person.
  zh: 但所有这些东西都有问题，因为它们使得圣灵在某种程度上不像是一个位格，一个神性位格。
- start: 2308.451
  end: 2310.612
  speaker: unknown
  en: At least that's how it could be interpreted.
  zh: 至少可以这样解释。
- start: 2311.694
  end: 2314.536
  speaker: unknown
  en: Anyway, yeah, you will see that.
  zh: 无论如何，是的，你会看到这些。
- start: 2315.337
  end: 2333.03
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, one last thing I'll say about Irenaeus, and then we'll go on to our next one, but, you know, when you get to the end of Proof of the Apostolic Preaching, he goes into a discussion of baptism, and talking about baptism is the rebirth that makes us children of God.
  zh: 现在，我要说的关于爱任纽的最后一件事，然后我们会继续下一个，但你知道，当你读到《使徒宣讲的证明》的结尾时，他进入了关于洗礼的讨论，谈论洗礼是使我们成为神的儿女的重生。
- start: 2335.179
  end: 2351.952
  speaker: unknown
  en: We may be used to thinking that all humans are children of God, but if you look at, for example, the Fourth Gospel, again, the author says that what makes us children of God is the acceptance of the Son of God as our brother.
  zh: 我们可能习惯于认为所有人类都是神的儿女，但如果你看，比如，第四福音，作者再次说，使我们成为神的儿女的是接受神的儿子为我们的兄弟。
- start: 2351.952
  end: 2359.238
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, we become children of God, and for Irenaeus, we become children of God through baptism.
  zh: 所以，我们成为神的儿女，对于爱任纽来说，我们通过洗礼成为神的儿女。
- start: 2359.238
  end: 2366.661
  speaker: unknown
  en: Baptism, he calls the seal,  This is an important concept.
  zh: 洗礼，他称之为印记，这是一个重要的概念。
- start: 2366.661
  end: 2368.923
  speaker: unknown
  en: Baptism as a seal.
  zh: 洗礼作为印记。
- start: 2368.963
  end: 2372.787
  speaker: unknown
  en: This comes up even in the book of Revelation.
  zh: 这甚至在《启示录》中出现。
- start: 2373.808
  end: 2377.572
  speaker: unknown
  en: To be sealed for God is a reference to baptism.
  zh: 被神印记是指洗礼。
- start: 2377.845
  end: 2384.188
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so in the book of Revelation, you can be marked for the beast, you can have the mark of the beast, or you can be sealed for God.
  zh: 所以在《启示录》中，你可以被兽印记，你可以有兽的印记，或者你可以被神印记。
- start: 2384.188
  end: 2387.709
  speaker: unknown
  en: Those two things are opposite, and you don't get both.
  zh: 这两件事是对立的，你不能同时拥有。
- start: 2387.769
  end: 2394.552
  speaker: unknown
  en: And if you are sealed for God and then you accept the mark of the beast, you're giving up being sealed for God.
  zh: 如果你被神印记，然后你接受兽的印记，你就放弃了被神印记。
- start: 2394.592
  end: 2399.134
  speaker: unknown
  en: So baptism is the seal of eternal life.
  zh: 所以洗礼是永生的印记。
- start: 2399.537
  end: 2401.258
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the seal can be broken.
  zh: 但印记可以被破坏。
- start: 2401.258
  end: 2406.042
  speaker: unknown
  en: Remember, in the early church, baptism is not a free ride.
  zh: 记住，在早期教会，洗礼不是免费的通行证。
- start: 2406.042
  end: 2410.706
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's a clean slate, but it's not a free ride.
  zh: 它是一个干净的起点，但不是免费的通行证。
- start: 2410.706
  end: 2419.773
  speaker: unknown
  en: It washes away your sins up until the time of the baptism, but it does not wash away the sins after the baptism.
  zh: 它洗净你直到洗礼时的罪，但不洗净洗礼后的罪。
- start: 2419.773
  end: 2433.626
  speaker: unknown
  en: So baptism gets you in, but what keeps you in, and what  What allows you to maintain the Holy Spirit is orthodoxy and morality.
  zh: 所以洗礼让你进入，但是什么让你保持，什么让你保持圣灵，是正统信仰和道德。
- start: 2434.086
  end: 2442.93
  speaker: unknown
  en: You may receive the Holy Spirit as baptism, but you can kick the Holy Spirit out of your life by immoral behavior or by heresy.
  zh: 你可以在洗礼时接受圣灵，但你可以通过不道德的行为或异端将圣灵赶出你的生活。
- start: 2445.351
  end: 2475.659
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, you receive salvation by baptism, but orthodox faith and morality  The Trinity, in terms of the formula, the Trinitarian formula of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is what Irenaeus called the three articles of our seal.
  zh: 所以，你通过洗礼接受救恩，但正统信仰和道德，三位一体的公式，即圣父、圣子和圣灵的三位一体公式，是爱任纽所称的我们印记的三条款。
- start: 2475.659
  end: 2481.681
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, we are sealed by the Trinitarian name, because that would be used in baptism.
  zh: 换句话说，我们被三位一体的名字印记，因为那会在洗礼中使用。
- start: 2483.439
  end: 2487.081
  speaker: unknown
  en: Alright, so any questions about Irenaeus?
  zh: 好吧，有关于爱任纽的问题吗？
- start: 2490.905
  end: 2492.926
  speaker: unknown
  en: Alright then, I'm going to go on.
  zh: 好吧，那么我继续。
- start: 2492.926
  end: 2495.648
  speaker: unknown
  en: We're going to talk about one more theologian tonight.
  zh: 今晚我们要谈论另一位神学家。
- start: 2496.749
  end: 2500.692
  speaker: unknown
  en: One of my favorites, Tertullian.
  zh: 我最喜欢的之一，特土良。
- start: 2510.356
  end: 2514.539
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, notice I am not writing Tertullian of some place.
  zh: 现在，注意我没有写某地的特土良。
- start: 2516.741
  end: 2521.104
  speaker: unknown
  en: That is because he is not a bishop.
  zh: 那是因为他不是主教。
- start: 2521.124
  end: 2561.705
  speaker: unknown
  en: He is born somewhere around 145 or 150 and probably lived into the 220s, but the time of his  The most profound production in terms of his writing, the time that we would say he flourished, if you ever see this before date, FL, this is when he flourished, this is like the time of his greatest production, is probably the  The end of the second century, but for sure the first couple decades of the third century.
  zh: 他大约出生于145或150年，可能活到了220年代，但他写作的最深刻的时期，我们说他繁荣的时期，如果你曾经看到这个日期前的FL，这是他繁荣的时期，这就像是他最伟大创作的时期，可能是第二世纪末，但肯定是第三世纪的头几十年。
- start: 2561.705
  end: 2568.888
  speaker: unknown
  en: So let's say 200-ish to maybe 220, whatever, but somewhere in there.
  zh: 所以我们说大约200到220年左右，但大概在那个范围内。
- start: 2568.888
  end: 2570.568
  speaker: unknown
  en: So that's what we're talking about.
  zh: 所以这就是我们在谈论的。
- start: 2570.568
  end: 2575.43
  speaker: unknown
  en: So we have made the transition from the second century into the third century.
  zh: 所以我们已经从第二世纪过渡到第三世纪。
- start: 2575.43
  end: 2577.571
  speaker: unknown
  en: Remember the 200s of the third century.
  zh: 记住第三世纪的200年代。
- start: 2578.212
  end: 2586.93
  speaker: unknown
  en: We're also going to make a bit of a transition from Greek to Latin, although that doesn't mean everybody from now on writes in Latin, but he did.
  zh: 我们还将从希腊语过渡到拉丁语，尽管这并不意味着从现在开始每个人都用拉丁语写作，但他确实是。
- start: 2587.817
  end: 2601.767
  speaker: unknown
  en: Tertullian is known as the father of Latin theology because he was one of the first to write in Latin, the first important theologian to write in Latin.
  zh: 特土良被称为拉丁神学之父，因为他是最早用拉丁语写作的人之一，是第一个用拉丁语写作的重要神学家。
- start: 2602.909
  end: 2613.817
  speaker: unknown
  en: He's from Carthage, which is the main city in North Africa and the second most important city in the West after Rome.
  zh: 他来自迦太基，这是北非的主要城市，是西方仅次于罗马的第二重要城市。
- start: 2615.59
  end: 2621.175
  speaker: unknown
  en: He may have been a lawyer although there is some question about that.
  zh: 他可能是个律师，尽管对此有些疑问。
- start: 2621.196
  end: 2624.919
  speaker: unknown
  en: He may have lived in Rome although there is some question about that.
  zh: 他可能住在罗马，尽管对此有些疑问。
- start: 2624.959
  end: 2628.502
  speaker: unknown
  en: He may have been a priest although there is some question about that.
  zh: 他可能是个神父，尽管对此有些疑问。
- start: 2629.847
  end: 2640.632
  speaker: unknown
  en: But he seems to have been converted to Christianity in mid-life, mid-career, somewhere around 185, and he seems to have gotten married shortly after his conversion.
  zh: 但他似乎在中年、中期事业中大约在185年左右皈依了基督教，并且他似乎在皈依后不久结婚了。
- start: 2640.632
  end: 2649.036
  speaker: unknown
  en: So it may very well be that he met a Christian woman and converted and got married.
  zh: 所以很可能是他遇到了一位基督徒女性，然后皈依并结婚了。
- start: 2649.957
  end: 2652.818
  speaker: unknown
  en: He may have become a priest in the early 190s.
  zh: 他可能在190年代初成为神父。
- start: 2654.788
  end: 2661.071
  speaker: unknown
  en: I think that he was, but it's difficult to prove and some scholars say that he was never a priest.
  zh: 我认为他是，但很难证明，有些学者说他从未是神父。
- start: 2662.692
  end: 2677.018
  speaker: unknown
  en: He was probably, I think, a priest in Rome and left Rome and went back to Carthage when he had a falling out with the bishops of Rome over a group known as the Montanists.
  zh: 我认为他可能是罗马的神父，当他与罗马的主教们因一个被称为孟他努派的团体发生争执时，他离开了罗马，回到了迦太基。
- start: 2677.051
  end: 2716.964
  speaker: unknown
  en: And you're going to read about this, so I'm not going to go into it in any detail now, although I may talk about it later when we talk about the developing hierarchy, but it seems that this group known as the Montanists, there was some question about their orthodoxy and whether they should be allowed to exist within the Church, and Church Julian was in favor of them and argued for their orthodoxy, and apparently  At some point in Rome, there was a guy who came along and convinced the bishop of Rome to condemn the monotheists.
  zh: 你们会读到这个，所以我现在不会详细讨论，尽管我可能会在我们谈论发展中的等级制度时谈到它，但似乎这个被称为孟他努派的团体，有一些关于他们正统性的疑问，以及他们是否应该被允许存在于教会内，教会的朱利安支持他们并为他们的正统性辩护，显然在罗马的某个时候，有一个人出现并说服罗马的主教谴责一神论者。
- start: 2717.265
  end: 2721.369
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, Tertullian seems to have had a falling out with the hierarchy in Rome.
  zh: 所以，特土良似乎与罗马的等级制度发生了争执。
- start: 2721.383
  end: 2728.369
  speaker: unknown
  en: went back to Carthage and in fact began to associate with the monotonous there somewhere around the turn of the century.
  zh: 回到迦太基，事实上在世纪之交开始与那里的孟他努派联系。
- start: 2728.509
  end: 2746.884
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so his most important writings, most of his writings were done during the time that he was associating with the monotonous, but again they're not really heretics and his writings are thoroughly orthodox and in fact help define orthodoxy itself.
  zh: 所以他最重要的著作，他的大部分著作都是在他与孟他努派联系期间完成的，但再次强调，他们并不是真正的异端，他的著作是完全正统的，实际上有助于定义正统性本身。
- start: 2749.423
  end: 2758.617
  speaker: unknown
  en: If all this is true, it seems like he went back to Carthage and probably gave up being a priest, and he seems to be writing as a lay teacher.
  zh: 如果这一切都是真的，他似乎回到了迦太基，可能放弃了做神父，他似乎以平信徒教师的身份写作。
- start: 2758.617
  end: 2762.783
  speaker: unknown
  en: And of course, as I said, he never became a bishop.
  zh: 当然，正如我所说，他从未成为主教。
- start: 2764.096
  end: 2772.724
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, as a theologian, he's heavily influenced by Irenaeus, which makes sense, because Irenaeus is the one major theologian before him.
  zh: 现在，作为神学家，他深受爱任纽的影响，这是有道理的，因为爱任纽是他之前的主要神学家。
- start: 2772.784
  end: 2781.131
  speaker: unknown
  en: And I always think how interesting it would be to live in a world where you could read every Christian document ever written over a summer.
  zh: 我总是想，生活在一个可以在一个夏天读完所有基督教文献的世界里会有多有趣。
- start: 2782.833
  end: 2784.895
  speaker: unknown
  en: But you don't live in that world, sorry.
  zh: 但你不生活在那个世界里，对不起。
- start: 2786.53
  end: 2802.775
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, as I said, Tertullian is the first important theologian to write in Latin, and so he's called the father of Latin theology, also because he's the one who coined the term Trinity, in Latin, Trinitas.
  zh: 所以，正如我所说，特土良是第一个用拉丁语写作的重要神学家，所以他被称为拉丁神学之父，也因为他是创造了拉丁语中的三位一体这个词的人，拉丁语是Trinitas。
- start: 2803.516
  end: 2813.486
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, you know, we say he coined the term Trinity, but the Greek writers before him had a word for  for God as three.
  zh: 现在，你知道，我们说他创造了三位一体这个词，但在他之前的希腊作家有一个词来表示神是三位一体。
- start: 2813.927
  end: 2817.21
  speaker: unknown
  en: In Greek it was triados, or triad.
  zh: 在希腊语中是triados，或三位一体。
- start: 2818.491
  end: 2821.093
  speaker: unknown
  en: But Trinity is the one that will eventually stick.
  zh: 但三位一体是最终会被接受的。
- start: 2822.074
  end: 2835.185
  speaker: unknown
  en: As a theologian, he follows the lead of Irenaeus in favoring Scripture as support for his arguments over against philosophy.
  zh: 作为神学家，他追随爱任纽的领导，支持用圣经来支持他的论点，而不是哲学。
- start: 2836.434
  end: 2841.616
  speaker: unknown
  en: Tertullian kind of goes to an extreme where he is really against philosophy.
  zh: 特土良有点走极端，他真的反对哲学。
- start: 2841.816
  end: 2849.78
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in some ways he gets this from Irenaeus, too, because these guys, you know, remember the apologists, Justin Martyr, Clement of Alexandria?
  zh: 在某些方面，他也从爱任纽那里得到了这一点，因为这些人，你知道，记得护教学者，殉道者游斯丁，亚历山大的革利免吗？
- start: 2849.84
  end: 2853.282
  speaker: unknown
  en: They wrote philosophy because they were philosophers.
  zh: 他们写哲学，因为他们是哲学家。
- start: 2853.282
  end: 2864.346
  speaker: unknown
  en: And Clement of Alexandria was the one who says, you know, philosophy will lead the Greeks to Christ just like the Old Testament is supposed to lead the Jews to Christ.
  zh: 亚历山大的革利免是那个说，哲学会引导希腊人归向基督，就像旧约应该引导犹太人归向基督一样的人。
- start: 2864.547
  end: 2865.627
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, that's gone.
  zh: 嗯，那已经过去了。
- start: 2865.697
  end: 2885.977
  speaker: unknown
  en: because with Irenaeus and Tertullian, it's like, philosophy is bad, it will only lead you into Gnosticism,  It can't be trusted because human reason is flawed, and the Bible says that the foolishness of God is smarter than human wisdom, and so, you know, philosophy is just not trustworthy.
  zh: 因为在爱任纽和特土良看来，哲学是坏的，它只会引导你进入诺斯替主义，它不可信，因为人类的理性是有缺陷的，圣经说神的愚拙比人类的智慧更聪明，所以，哲学是不可信的。
- start: 2885.977
  end: 2891.538
  speaker: unknown
  en: And Tertullian is famous for having said, you know, what does Athens have to do with Jerusalem?
  zh: 特土良因说过，雅典与耶路撒冷有什么关系而闻名。
- start: 2891.538
  end: 2895.318
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, what does philosophy have to do with theology?
  zh: 换句话说，哲学与神学有什么关系？
- start: 2895.318
  end: 2896.838
  speaker: unknown
  en: Alright, so...
  zh: 好吧，所以……
- start: 2900.848
  end: 2920.956
  speaker: unknown
  en: Tertullian builds on everything Irenaeus has said, including the idea that the hierarchy is a kind of a hierarchy of accessibility, in the sense that one gets to the Father through the Son, one gets to the Son through the Church, because the Holy Spirit is found in the Church and through the sacrament.
  zh: 特土良建立在爱任纽所说的一切之上，包括等级制度是一种可接近性的等级制度的观点，即通过圣子接近圣父，通过教会接近圣子，因为圣灵在教会和圣事中找到。
- start: 2921.336
  end: 2928.019
  speaker: unknown
  en: Tertullian, like many of his days, said that there is no salvation outside of the Church.
  zh: 特土良，像他那个时代的许多人一样，说教会之外没有救恩。
- start: 2929.008
  end: 2939.455
  speaker: unknown
  en: One of the later bishops of North Africa, a guy named Cyprian, would later say, whoever does not have the church for a mother does not have God for a father.
  zh: 北非后来的一个主教，一个叫居普良的人，后来会说，谁没有教会为母亲，谁就没有神为父亲。
- start: 2939.875
  end: 2945.475
  speaker: unknown
  en: So this idea that there's no salvation outside of the church because there are no sacraments outside the church.
  zh: 所以这个观点是，教会之外没有救恩，因为教会之外没有圣事。
- start: 2945.475
  end: 2949.738
  speaker: unknown
  en: There's no Eucharist outside the church, so there's no Holy Spirit outside the church.
  zh: 教会之外没有圣餐，所以教会之外没有圣灵。
- start: 2949.738
  end: 2955.603
  speaker: unknown
  en: So you can't get to Jesus outside of the church, and if you can't get to Jesus, you can't get to the Father.
  zh: 所以你不能在教会之外接近耶稣，如果你不能接近耶稣，你就不能接近圣父。
- start: 2955.803
  end: 2963.049
  speaker: unknown
  en: Alright, the document that I'm going to ask you to read from Tertullian is called Against Fracteus.
  zh: 好吧，我要请你们读的特土良的文件叫做《反对普拉克塞亚》。
- start: 2963.049
  end: 2968.473
  speaker: unknown
  en: A lot of these documents are called against somebody.
  zh: 很多这些文件都叫做反对某人。
- start: 2968.473
  end: 2972.096
  speaker: unknown
  en: Help me out here.
  zh: 帮帮我。
- start: 2974.058
  end: 2974.698
  speaker: unknown
  en: E-A-M? Yeah.
  zh: E-A-M？是的。
- start: 2974.824
  end: 2985.832
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, we don't really know who Praxeus is, but he seems to be the one who convinced the Bishop of Rome to condemn the Montanists.
  zh: 现在，我们并不真正知道普拉克塞亚是谁，但他似乎是那个说服罗马主教谴责孟他努派的人。
- start: 2986.352
  end: 2993.838
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, Tertullian hates him because he's against the Montanists, whom Tertullian likes.
  zh: 所以，特土良讨厌他，因为他反对特土良喜欢的孟他努派。
- start: 2993.838
  end: 2999.001
  speaker: unknown
  en: But there's a bigger problem, and that is that Praxeus is a heretic.
  zh: 但有一个更大的问题，那就是普拉克塞亚是一个异端。
- start: 2999.902
  end: 3008.635
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, Tertullian uses his dislike of Praxeus  As a vehicle to write a document about theology.
  zh: 所以，特土良利用他对普拉克塞亚的厌恶作为写一篇关于神学的文件的工具。
- start: 3008.635
  end: 3013.716
  speaker: unknown
  en: And next week we're going to talk about Crassius' particular brand of heresy.
  zh: 下周我们将讨论普拉克塞亚特有的异端。
- start: 3015.216
  end: 3022.378
  speaker: unknown
  en: But for now, I just want you to set this up in terms of what you should look for when you read this document.
  zh: 但现在，我只是想让你在阅读这份文件时知道应该注意什么。
- start: 3022.798
  end: 3034.901
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because in this document, Tertullian develops the language to talk about the Trinity that will become the standard language in the Western Church.
  zh: 因为在这份文件中，特土良发展了谈论三位一体的语言，这将成为西方教会的标准语言。
- start: 3035.268
  end: 3039.011
  speaker: unknown
  en: It doesn't mean it catches on right away, but it will become the standard.
  zh: 这并不意味着它会立即流行，但它将成为标准。
- start: 3040.273
  end: 3048.88
  speaker: unknown
  en: And he appears to get the language that he uses to talk about the Trinity from Roman legal terms.
  zh: 他似乎从罗马法律术语中获得了他用来谈论三位一体的语言。
- start: 3048.88
  end: 3052.083
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is why a lot of people say that he was once a lawyer.
  zh: 这就是为什么很多人说他曾经是个律师。
- start: 3052.083
  end: 3060.35
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the thing is that these legal terms were probably so common that you wouldn't have to be a lawyer to know these words.
  zh: 但问题是这些法律术语可能非常普遍，你不必是律师也能知道这些词。
- start: 3062.162
  end: 3072.927
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, you know, maybe he was a lawyer, maybe he wasn't, but the point is that he borrows these terms from Roman legal use and applies them to theology.
  zh: 所以，你知道，也许他是律师，也许不是，但关键是他从罗马法律用语中借用了这些术语并将其应用于神学。
- start: 3073.207
  end: 3075.108
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so the first one is...
  zh: 所以第一个是……
- start: 3075.568
  end: 3083.652
  speaker: unknown
  en: The first one is persona.
  zh: 第一个是persona。
- start: 3084.672
  end: 3088.074
  speaker: unknown
  en: Persona, or we would translate that, person.
  zh: Persona，或者我们会翻译成，位格。
- start: 3089.102
  end: 3090.863
  speaker: unknown
  en: But not simply a person.
  zh: 但不仅仅是一个人。
- start: 3092.183
  end: 3107.51
  speaker: unknown
  en: In Roman legal use, persona is a legal entity, a personality in the sense of an individual who has legal standing and who can own things under the law.
  zh: 在罗马法律用语中，persona是一个法律实体，一个在法律上有法律地位并且可以拥有财产的个体。
- start: 3108.27
  end: 3111.192
  speaker: unknown
  en: So not all people are personae.
  zh: 所以不是所有人都是personae。
- start: 3111.192
  end: 3114.073
  speaker: unknown
  en: And by the way, the plural is personae.
  zh: 顺便说一下，复数是personae。
- start: 3115.549
  end: 3119.091
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, in Roman law, not all people are persons.
  zh: 所以，在罗马法律中，不是所有人都是位格。
- start: 3121.493
  end: 3126.716
  speaker: unknown
  en: But, a person, in this sense, is someone who can own something.
  zh: 但在这个意义上，位格是指可以拥有某物的人。
- start: 3128.077
  end: 3133.984
  speaker: unknown
  en: And, as Sir Julian explained it,  God is a trinity of persons.
  zh: 正如特土良解释的那样，神是三个位格的三位一体。
- start: 3133.984
  end: 3136.925
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, there are three personae, three persons.
  zh: 换句话说，有三个位格，三个人。
- start: 3136.925
  end: 3139.125
  speaker: unknown
  en: You know who they are.
  zh: 你知道他们是谁。
- start: 3139.906
  end: 3143.907
  speaker: unknown
  en: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 圣父，圣子，和圣灵。
- start: 3143.967
  end: 3147.288
  speaker: unknown
  en: So those are the three persons of the Trinity.
  zh: 所以这就是三位一体的三个位格。
- start: 3148.048
  end: 3161.412
  speaker: unknown
  en: The other legal word that Triturian uses is substantia, or, as we might translate it, substance.
  zh: 特土良使用的另一个法律词是substantia，或者我们可以翻译成，实质。
- start: 3161.872
  end: 3166.055
  speaker: unknown
  en: But be careful, it does not mean a physical or tangible substance.
  zh: 但要小心，它并不意味着物理或有形的物质。
- start: 3166.055
  end: 3173.939
  speaker: unknown
  en: You know how it works when we hear that word in English, we automatically think, stuff, like, what's this substance on my shoe?
  zh: 你知道，当我们在英语中听到这个词时，我们会自动想到，东西，比如，我鞋子上的这种物质是什么？
- start: 3175.14
  end: 3178.722
  speaker: unknown
  en: But it doesn't mean a physical or a tangible substance.
  zh: 但它并不意味着物理或有形的物质。
- start: 3178.88
  end: 3184.341
  speaker: unknown
  en: A substance is something with legal status or property.
  zh: 实质是具有法律地位或财产的东西。
- start: 3184.341
  end: 3189.002
  speaker: unknown
  en: And a contemporary example of property that's non-tangible is intellectual property.
  zh: 一个当代的非有形财产的例子是知识产权。
- start: 3189.002
  end: 3192.403
  speaker: unknown
  en: You can own the rights to a concept or whatever.
  zh: 你可以拥有一个概念或其他东西的权利。
- start: 3193.503
  end: 3195.843
  speaker: unknown
  en: So it doesn't have to be tangible.
  zh: 所以它不必是有形的。
- start: 3195.923
  end: 3198.044
  speaker: unknown
  en: In this sense, of course, it is not.
  zh: 在这个意义上，当然不是。
- start: 3198.044
  end: 3204.505
  speaker: unknown
  en: But it is property in the sense that it is something that is owned.
  zh: 但它是财产，因为它是被拥有的东西。
- start: 3205.294
  end: 3206.856
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so you see where he's going with this.
  zh: 所以你明白他要表达的意思。
- start: 3206.856
  end: 3211.96
  speaker: unknown
  en: The three persons own one substance.
  zh: 三个位格拥有一个实质。
- start: 3212.301
  end: 3213.662
  speaker: unknown
  en: What is that substance?
  zh: 那是什么实质？
- start: 3213.662
  end: 3215.083
  speaker: unknown
  en: Divinity itself.
  zh: 神性本身。
- start: 3216.634
  end: 3224.54
  speaker: unknown
  en: It is intangible, it is invisible, spiritual, non-material, but it is divinity.
  zh: 它是无形的，是不可见的，属灵的，非物质的，但它是神性。
- start: 3224.66
  end: 3229.944
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the three persons own or share one divinity, one substance.
  zh: 所以三个位格拥有或共享一个神性，一个实质。
- start: 3229.944
  end: 3240.011
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now when I say share, I don't mean share as in divio, it's not dividing, but I mean share as in the three persons own the one substance.
  zh: 现在当我说共享时，我不是指分割，而是指三个位格共同拥有一个实质。
- start: 3241.195
  end: 3251.101
  speaker: unknown
  en: While we believe in three divine persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, we can still say we only believe in one God because there is only one divine substance.
  zh: 虽然我们相信三个位格，圣父、圣子和圣灵，但我们仍然可以说我们只相信一个神，因为只有一个神性实质。
- start: 3251.301
  end: 3254.543
  speaker: unknown
  en: Does that make sense?
  zh: 这有道理吗？
- start: 3255.143
  end: 3264.169
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, for some reason I have lots of energy tonight and I'm cruising right along, so we're not going to be here too much longer.
  zh: 现在，不知为何，我今晚精力充沛，我一直在讲，所以我们不会在这里待太久。
- start: 3264.169
  end: 3265.769
  speaker: unknown
  en: I bet you're happy about that.
  zh: 我打赌你对此很高兴。
- start: 3269.275
  end: 3272.596
  speaker: unknown
  en: Can I get a witness, huh?
  zh: 有人能见证吗？
- start: 3272.596
  end: 3279.979
  speaker: unknown
  en: Okay, so what I'm going to do here is give you a visual here.
  zh: 好吧，我要做的是给你们一个视觉展示。
- start: 3279.979
  end: 3303.332
  speaker: unknown
  en: So there is one substance which is divinity itself, divinity, sorry about that,  This one substance is owned or shared by three persons who are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 所以有一个实质是神性本身，神性，对不起，这一个实质是由三个位格拥有或共享的，他们是圣父、圣子和圣灵。
- start: 3318.797
  end: 3323.261
  speaker: unknown
  en: And I know I'm sticking with traditional terms here, but I'm doing that for a reason.
  zh: 我知道我在这里坚持使用传统术语，但我是有原因的。
- start: 3323.261
  end: 3326.704
  speaker: unknown
  en: We'll get around to talking about that issue if that's what you're thinking.
  zh: 如果那是你在想的，我们会谈到那个问题。
- start: 3326.704
  end: 3329.606
  speaker: unknown
  en: But for now, we have to stick with the traditional terms.
  zh: 但现在，我们必须坚持使用传统术语。
- start: 3329.606
  end: 3333.649
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, the three persons are Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
  zh: 所以，三个位格是圣父、圣子和圣灵。
- start: 3333.649
  end: 3344.518
  speaker: unknown
  en: But remember, the second person is one person who has two substances.
  zh: 但记住，第二个位格是一个拥有两种实质的人。
- start: 3345.658
  end: 3355.543
  speaker: unknown
  en: One of those substances is divinity, the same divinity as the Trinity, but one of those substances is humanity.
  zh: 其中一种实质是神性，与三位一体的神性相同，但其中一种实质是人性。
- start: 3357.184
  end: 3365.909
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, when we talk about Christ, we don't use the word substance, we use the word nature, but it means exactly the same thing.
  zh: 现在，当我们谈论基督时，我们不用实质这个词，我们用本性这个词，但它的意思完全相同。
- start: 3365.909
  end: 3371.672
  speaker: unknown
  en: For Christ, we would say he has two natures, but nature is substance, it's the same thing.
  zh: 对于基督，我们会说他有两种本性，但本性就是实质，是同一回事。
- start: 3374.295
  end: 3392.341
  speaker: unknown
  en: So God, as Trinity, is three persons who own or share one substance, and one of those persons, the second person of the Trinity, himself, has two substances, divinity and humanity, that we call natures.
  zh: 所以神，作为三位一体，是三个位格拥有或共享一个实质，其中一个位格，三位一体的第二个位格，他自己有两种实质，神性和人性，我们称之为本性。
- start: 3393.162
  end: 3396.042
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, let me stop here and see if there are questions.
  zh: 现在，让我停下来看看有没有问题。
- start: 3401.892
  end: 3403.594
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's alright, there are no questions, that's fine.
  zh: 没关系，没有问题，那很好。
- start: 3403.594
  end: 3410.359
  speaker: unknown
  en: I mean, you know, sometimes this stuff needs to sink in for a while, until you come up with a question, but I see one here, yes, go ahead.
  zh: 我的意思是，有时这些东西需要消化一段时间，直到你提出一个问题，但我看到这里有一个问题，是的，请说。
- start: 3411.019
  end: 3412.92
  speaker: unknown
  en: Thank you for wearing a Packers shirt, by the way.
  zh: 顺便说一句，谢谢你穿着包装工队的衬衫。
- start: 3412.92
  end: 3429.21
  speaker: unknown
  en: I guess I don't know how to wear this, but how opposed were the Christians using philosophy, using the style of a time, how opposed were they and the theologians?
  zh: 我想我不知道该怎么说，但基督徒使用哲学，使用当时的风格，他们和神学家有多反对？
- start: 3429.371
  end: 3431.212
  speaker: unknown
  en: Kind of reference it.
  zh: 有点参考。
- start: 3431.212
  end: 3438.817
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, well, you know, as I said earlier, Iran and Clement of Alexandria are kind of contemporaries, right?
  zh: 是的，你知道，正如我之前说的，爱任纽和亚历山大的革利免是同时代的人，对吧？
- start: 3438.817
  end: 3443.085
  speaker: unknown
  en: But they don't  I don't want to make too much of a dichotomy between East and West.
  zh: 但他们没有，我不想在东西方之间做太多的二分法。
- start: 3443.085
  end: 3446.067
  speaker: unknown
  en: I don't want to oversimplify that too much.
  zh: 我不想过于简化。
- start: 3455.24
  end: 3474.037
  speaker: unknown
  en: As it develops, it does appear that the East is going to be more accepting of philosophy, and the West is going to be less accepting of philosophy, so that the Western theologians like Uranus and Tertullian are going to be skeptical of philosophy, and they're going to want to make it more of a distinction between philosophy and theology.
  zh: 随着发展，东部似乎会更接受哲学，而西部会更不接受哲学，所以像爱任纽和特土良这样的西方神学家会对哲学持怀疑态度，他们会想要在哲学和神学之间做更多的区分。
- start: 3474.037
  end: 3476.639
  speaker: unknown
  en: Philosophy bad, theology good.
  zh: 哲学不好，神学好。
- start: 3477.22
  end: 3485.506
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Eastern theologians are going to be more like, you know, philosophy is a good thing if you use it right,  Maybe there isn't that much of a distinction between philosophy and theology.
  zh: 东方神学家会更像是，你知道，如果你正确使用哲学，哲学是一件好事，也许哲学和神学之间没有那么大的区别。
- start: 3485.506
  end: 3488.208
  speaker: unknown
  en: But they're both kind of considered orthodox?
  zh: 但他们都被认为是正统的吗？
- start: 3488.208
  end: 3488.968
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yes.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 3489.029
  end: 3489.769
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yes.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 3490.31
  end: 3495.833
  speaker: unknown
  en: I mean, if they're orthodox in other ways, then that alone doesn't make them orthodox or not.
  zh: 我的意思是，如果他们在其他方面是正统的，那么仅此一点并不能决定他们是否正统。
- start: 3495.833
  end: 3507.1
  speaker: unknown
  en: Especially at this early stage, you can find things in almost all of these guys that didn't stick, that didn't stand the test of time.
  zh: 特别是在这个早期阶段，你几乎可以在所有这些人身上找到一些没有坚持下来的东西，没有经受住时间的考验。
- start: 3507.1
  end: 3509.942
  speaker: unknown
  en: Something like this, it did stand the test of time.
  zh: 像这样的东西，它经受住了时间的考验。
- start: 3509.942
  end: 3516.32
  speaker: unknown
  en: But Tertullian,  Followed Irenaeus in his dispensationalist interpretation of the book of Revelation.
  zh: 但特土良，跟随爱任纽对《启示录》的时代论解释。
- start: 3516.701
  end: 3525.023
  speaker: unknown
  en: Again, a lot of people thought that was problematic, and probably still do.
  zh: 再次强调，很多人认为这是有问题的，可能现在仍然如此。
- start: 3525.443
  end: 3528.684
  speaker: unknown
  en: Let me throw one more thing at you.
  zh: 让我再告诉你一件事。
- start: 3528.684
  end: 3533.146
  speaker: unknown
  en: I told you that Irenaeus used that analogy of the anointing.
  zh: 我告诉你爱任纽使用了那个膏抹的类比。
- start: 3533.146
  end: 3541.138
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Father is the one who anoints, the Son is the anointed one, and the Holy Spirit is the ointment, or the oil of anointing.
  zh: 圣父是膏抹者，圣子是被膏者，圣灵是膏油，或膏抹的油。
- start: 3541.138
  end: 3548.665
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, we're moving a little bit beyond that now, and Tertullian's favorite analogy seems to be the sun.
  zh: 嗯，我们现在稍微超越了这一点，特土良最喜欢的类比似乎是太阳。
- start: 3550.387
  end: 3555.372
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, you know the sun is a star, you know, burning the ball of gas, whatever.
  zh: 嗯，你知道太阳是一颗恒星，你知道，燃烧的气体球，等等。
- start: 3555.372
  end: 3560.536
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the sun gives off light and heat.
  zh: 但太阳发出光和热。
- start: 3560.977
  end: 3564.08
  speaker: unknown
  en: And I'm kind of paraphrasing Tertullian here, but you'll get the idea.
  zh: 我在这里有点转述特土良的话，但你会明白的。
- start: 3564.141
  end: 3571.525
  speaker: unknown
  en: So imagine an analogy where the Father is like the star itself, and the Son and the Spirit are like the light and the heat.
  zh: 所以想象一个类比，圣父就像恒星本身，圣子和圣灵就像光和热。
- start: 3573.587
  end: 3576.649
  speaker: unknown
  en: They work together, yet they're distinct.
  zh: 他们一起工作，但他们是不同的。
- start: 3577.285
  end: 3579.386
  speaker: unknown
  en: But you really couldn't separate them.
  zh: 但你真的不能把它们分开。
- start: 3580.247
  end: 3586.651
  speaker: unknown
  en: You can see what he's going for here is a sort of balance between the unity and the distinction.
  zh: 你可以看到他在这里追求的是统一和区别之间的一种平衡。
- start: 3587.392
  end: 3590.954
  speaker: unknown
  en: Unified, but not exactly all the same things.
  zh: 统一，但不完全是相同的东西。
- start: 3591.035
  end: 3593.136
  speaker: unknown
  en: Distinct, but not really separate.
  zh: 不同，但不真正分离。
- start: 3593.517
  end: 3601.69
  speaker: unknown
  en: Another analogy that gets used at this point is  The concept of a spring, you know, a spring of water bubbling up out of the ground, right?
  zh: 此时使用的另一个类比是泉水的概念，你知道，泉水从地面冒出来，对吧？
- start: 3602.47
  end: 3605.131
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, where's our Minnesota people here, right?
  zh: 那么，我们的明尼苏达州的人在哪里，对吧？
- start: 3605.131
  end: 3608.272
  speaker: unknown
  en: Don't you have the, isn't that where the Mississippi starts?
  zh: 你们那里不是密西西比河的起点吗？
- start: 3608.272
  end: 3609.332
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, okay.
  zh: 是的，好吧。
- start: 3609.332
  end: 3615.694
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, the Minnesota people here, they're probably watching at home.
  zh: 所以，明尼苏达州的人，他们可能在家里看。
- start: 3615.694
  end: 3625.128
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, the spring, water bubbling up out of the ground,  The spring ends up becoming a stream and the stream becomes a river.
  zh: 所以，泉水，从地面冒出来，泉水最终变成小溪，小溪变成河流。
- start: 3625.128
  end: 3629.972
  speaker: unknown
  en: But how do you say where the spring ends and the stream begins?
  zh: 但你怎么说泉水结束和小溪开始的地方？
- start: 3629.993
  end: 3638.982
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so this again becomes kind of an analogy for the father and the son, where the father is like the spring and the son is like the stream.
  zh: 所以这再次成为圣父和圣子的类比，圣父像泉水，圣子像小溪。
- start: 3638.982
  end: 3643.366
  speaker: unknown
  en: Distinct but not separate, one but not one and the same.
  zh: 不同但不分离，一个但不完全相同。
- start: 3643.49
  end: 3644.11
  speaker: unknown
  en: Question there?
  zh: 有问题吗？
- start: 3644.11
  end: 3657.014
  speaker: unknown
  en: So is this where the whole concept of the Trinity comes into play as a triangle, as an equal, lateral triangle, where they're all equal, but yet they're all different?
  zh: 那么这就是三位一体的整个概念作为一个三角形，一个等边三角形，它们都是平等的，但它们都是不同的地方吗？
- start: 3657.114
  end: 3675.876
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, although I don't know if anyone actually used the triangle as an analogy itself, but that is becoming the issue because, you know, in order to maintain the oneness of God, there's got to be  An equality there, or a sameness, you know, the one substance.
  zh: 是的，尽管我不知道是否有人实际上使用三角形作为类比本身，但这正在成为问题，因为，你知道，为了保持神的统一，必须有一个平等，或者相同性，你知道，一个实质。
- start: 3676.837
  end: 3681.579
  speaker: unknown
  en: But in order to maintain the distinction between the three persons, there's got to be some difference.
  zh: 但为了保持三个位格之间的区别，必须有一些不同。
- start: 3681.579
  end: 3690.444
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, when we come back next week, we're going to look at the 3rd century, well, late 2nd and 3rd century heresies that are about exactly that.
  zh: 所以，当我们下周回来时，我们将看看第三世纪，嗯，第二世纪末和第三世纪的异端，正是关于这个问题的。
- start: 3690.444
  end: 3692.205
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so we'll, you know, let's do that.
  zh: 所以我们会，你知道，我们来做这个。
- start: 3692.205
  end: 3695.467
  speaker: unknown
  en: But that's kind of where we're at right now.
  zh: 但这就是我们现在的情况。
- start: 3695.867
  end: 3699.229
  speaker: unknown
  en: I haven't actually said everything I planned to say, so let me see if there are questions.
  zh: 我实际上还没有说完我计划要说的一切，所以让我看看有没有问题。
- start: 3699.229
  end: 3701.15
  speaker: unknown
  en: We've got plenty of time for questions.
  zh: 我们有足够的时间提问。
- start: 3701.169
  end: 3712.46
  speaker: unknown
  en: Can you repeat Aeneas' example of the anointing and the oil?
  zh: 你能重复一下爱任纽关于膏抹和油的例子吗？
- start: 3712.46
  end: 3713.481
  speaker: unknown
  en: Oh, this is Irenaeus.
  zh: 哦，这是爱任纽。
- start: 3713.481
  end: 3715.823
  speaker: unknown
  en: You're going to read it.
  zh: 你会读到它。
- start: 3715.823
  end: 3734.553
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is using the analogy of anointing, where in this analogy the father is like the one who anoints  The Son is the anointed one, which of course is what the word Christ means anyway, and then the Holy Spirit is the oil of anointing, or the ointment itself.
  zh: 这是使用膏抹的类比，在这个类比中，圣父像膏抹者，圣子是被膏者，当然这也是基督这个词的意思，然后圣灵是膏油，或膏抹的油。
- start: 3735.194
  end: 3750.805
  speaker: unknown
  en: And again I said, there's a certain aspect of that that's problematic because  It seems to leave the Holy Spirit in a position of being less a divine person and more just a thing, or the glue that holds the Father and Son together.
  zh: 我再次说过，这有某些方面是有问题的，因为它似乎使圣灵处于一个较少是神性位格而更多只是一个东西，或将圣父和圣子联系在一起的胶水的位置。
- start: 3750.805
  end: 3758.909
  speaker: unknown
  en: But again, remember, this is so early in the development of the doctrine that they're not talking about the Holy Spirit all that much yet.
  zh: 但再次强调，记住，这在教义的发展中是如此早期，他们还没有谈论太多关于圣灵的事情。
- start: 3758.909
  end: 3767.913
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's really more about the Son and his relationship to the Father, and how do you worship Jesus and still claim to say, you only have one God.
  zh: 这实际上更多是关于圣子和他与圣父的关系，以及你如何敬拜耶稣并仍然声称你只有一个神。
- start: 3769.463
  end: 3787.101
  speaker: unknown
  en: This clarification, when you were giving the nine assumptions that Patricia did,  Yes, the nine assumptions of patristic exegesis, yes.
  zh: 这个澄清，当你在讲帕特里夏做的九个假设时，是的，教父释经的九个假设，是的。
- start: 3787.621
  end: 3803.667
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, the eighth was the New Testament one, that the New Testament is interpreted generally, literally.
  zh: 嗯，第八个是新约的那个，新约通常是按字面解释的。
- start: 3806.808
  end: 3821.261
  speaker: unknown
  en: If you're using an old version of the handout, there are only eight assumptions on the old version of the handout because one of them I split into two.
  zh: 如果你使用的是旧版本的讲义，旧版本的讲义上只有八个假设，因为其中一个我分成了两个。
- start: 3821.261
  end: 3822.721
  speaker: unknown
  en: Follow what's in the book.
  zh: 按照书中的内容。
- start: 3823.342
  end: 3826.185
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, the chart's in the book.
  zh: 是的，图表在书里。
- start: 3826.185
  end: 3831.109
  speaker: unknown
  en: But yeah, so number eight was interpretation of the New Testament was generally literal.
  zh: 但是，是的，第八个是新约的解释通常是字面的。
- start: 3831.109
  end: 3833.113
  speaker: unknown
  en: All right, we'll go ahead and stop the tape.
  zh: 好吧，我们继续停止录像。
- start: 3833.113
  end: 3835.196
  speaker: unknown
  en: Thanks for watching, those of you at home.
  zh: 感谢在家观看的你们。
