- start: 1.388
  end: 2.029
  speaker: unknown
  en: Okay, we going?
  zh: 好，我们开始吗？
- start: 2.029
  end: 3.99
  speaker: unknown
  en: All right, welcome back.
  zh: 好的，欢迎回来。
- start: 4.55
  end: 8.293
  speaker: unknown
  en: We are now moving from the first century into the second century.
  zh: 我们现在从第一世纪进入第二世纪。
- start: 8.533
  end: 13.597
  speaker: unknown
  en: So we started in the Apostolic Age, or the age of the Apostles.
  zh: 我们从使徒时代或使徒的时代开始。
- start: 13.617
  end: 20.643
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now we're moving into what we call Sub-Apostolic Age, or sort of Christianity, the next generation, right?
  zh: 现在我们进入所谓的次使徒时代，或者说是基督教的下一代，对吧？
- start: 20.643
  end: 38.906
  speaker: unknown
  en: So this is the age after the Apostles, and so we're getting into the end of the first century  Now, really there's some overlap here because I'm going to start with Clement of Rome.
  zh: 这是使徒之后的时代，所以我们进入了第一世纪末。实际上这里有一些重叠，因为我要从罗马的克莱门特开始。
- start: 38.906
  end: 60.849
  speaker: unknown
  en: And Clement of Rome lived from about the year 30 to 100. Now, whenever you see me write a name here,  Music will be omitted.
  zh: 罗马的克莱门特大约生活在公元30年到100年。现在，每当你看到我在这里写一个名字时，音乐将被省略。
- start: 60.849
  end: 62.21
  speaker: unknown
  en: Music will be omitted.
  zh: 音乐将被省略。
- start: 62.75
  end: 63.531
  speaker: unknown
  en: Music will be omitted.
  zh: 音乐将被省略。
- start: 63.531
  end: 64.651
  speaker: unknown
  en: Music will be omitted.
  zh: 音乐将被省略。
- start: 64.651
  end: 66.212
  speaker: unknown
  en: Music will be omitted.
  zh: 音乐将被省略。
- start: 89.627
  end: 100.372
  speaker: unknown
  en: According to the story, Clement is supposed to have known some of the apostles personally.
  zh: 据说，克莱门特曾亲自认识一些使徒。
- start: 100.692
  end: 121.958
  speaker: unknown
  en: In fact, in Philippians, there is the mention of a Clement, and so the tradition is that he seems to have known Paul and possibly Luke personally, and perhaps  The Clement mentioned in Philippians is this particular Clement, although there's no way to prove that.
  zh: 事实上，在腓立比书中提到了一个克莱门特，所以传统认为他似乎亲自认识保罗，可能还认识路加，也许腓立比书中提到的克莱门特就是这个特定的克莱门特，尽管无法证实。
- start: 122.299
  end: 126.101
  speaker: unknown
  en: Some other sources say that Clement was a disciple of Peter.
  zh: 一些其他来源说克莱门特是彼得的门徒。
- start: 126.101
  end: 131.144
  speaker: unknown
  en: That probably comes from the fact that he's in Rome, and Peter was known to have been in Rome.
  zh: 这可能是因为他在罗马，而彼得据知也曾在罗马。
- start: 132.065
  end: 151.135
  speaker: unknown
  en: Other traditions associate him with the household of a man named Clement,  And Clemens was actually a cousin of one of the Roman emperors, the emperor Domitian.
  zh: 其他传统将他与一个名叫克莱门特的人的家族联系在一起，而克莱门斯实际上是罗马皇帝之一多米田的表兄。
- start: 151.435
  end: 163.639
  speaker: unknown
  en: Domitian was emperor of Rome from 81 to 96 in the first century.
  zh: 多米田在第一世纪的81年到96年期间是罗马皇帝。
- start: 163.639
  end: 171.361
  speaker: unknown
  en: By the way, you may be used to AD, or Anno Domini, the Year of the Lord.
  zh: 顺便说一下，你可能习惯于使用公元或主年。
- start: 171.905
  end: 184.896
  speaker: unknown
  en: The more common convention nowadays is CE, or the Common Era, and that's simply to acknowledge the fact that not everyone thinks Jesus is Lord.
  zh: 现在更常用的惯例是公元或公历纪年，这只是为了承认并非每个人都认为耶稣是主。
- start: 185.151
  end: 187.672
  speaker: unknown
  en: So we'll use CE for the common error.
  zh: 所以我们将使用公元作为通用的表述。
- start: 187.672
  end: 200.715
  speaker: unknown
  en: Usually I will use CE, but it means exactly the same thing as AD. You should get in the habit of using CE as well, because all of publishing is going in that direction.
  zh: 通常我会使用公元，但它的含义与公元完全相同。你也应该养成使用公元的习惯，因为所有的出版物都在朝这个方向发展。
- start: 201.456
  end: 206.717
  speaker: unknown
  en: Instead of BC, we now use BCE for before the common error.
  zh: 我们现在用公元前代替公元前。
- start: 207.217
  end: 227.785
  speaker: unknown
  en: So anyway, most of what we're talking about in this class, though, is AE or CE.  Domitian was the emperor, Clemens was his cousin, and Clemens and his wife were executed by the emperor Domitian, and many people believe it was because they were Christians.
  zh: 无论如何，我们在这门课上讨论的大部分内容都是公元。多米田是皇帝，克莱门斯是他的表兄，克莱门斯和他的妻子被皇帝多米田处决，许多人认为这是因为他们是基督徒。
- start: 229.887
  end: 249.292
  speaker: unknown
  en: Our Clemens, according to tradition, may have been a slave in the Clemens household, and as often happened, when the master dies,  And the master's will provides for the manumission of the slaves.
  zh: 根据传统，我们的克莱门斯可能是克莱门斯家族的奴隶，而且经常发生的情况是，当主人去世时，主人的遗嘱会规定解放奴隶。
- start: 249.672
  end: 255.613
  speaker: unknown
  en: Often the slaves will take the name of the household that they came from.
  zh: 奴隶们经常会取他们所来自的家族的名字。
- start: 255.613
  end: 268.375
  speaker: unknown
  en: So it could be that Clemens of Rome was a freedman or a former slave of the Clemens household and took the Clemens name when he was free.
  zh: 所以罗马的克莱门特可能是克莱门斯家族的自由民或前奴隶，在获得自由时取了克莱门斯这个名字。
- start: 268.755
  end: 288.196
  speaker: unknown
  en: However, the interesting thing about that is that if that's true, you do the math,  It turns out he was already a bishop before he was a priest, so he was a bishop while he was a slave, which is part of the whole bigger picture that slavery in the ancient world is not the same thing as it was in this country.
  zh: 然而，有趣的是，如果这是真的，你算一算，结果发现他在成为神父之前就已经是主教了，所以他在做奴隶时就是主教，这是古代世界奴隶制与这个国家的奴隶制不同的整体图景的一部分。
- start: 290.277
  end: 293.098
  speaker: unknown
  en: But anyway, all of these things are traditions.
  zh: 但无论如何，所有这些都是传统。
- start: 293.098
  end: 300.441
  speaker: unknown
  en: Whenever I say according to tradition,  That's code for, you know, this is a story, but it's a story.
  zh: 每当我说「根据传统」，这就是在暗示，你知道，这是一个故事，但它只是一个故事。
- start: 300.441
  end: 304.685
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, you know, we can't necessarily verify that it's true.
  zh: 所以，你知道，我们不一定能验证它是真的。
- start: 304.685
  end: 310.21
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in fact, there may very well be competing stories, as there often are.
  zh: 事实上，可能会有相互竞争的故事，这种情况经常发生。
- start: 310.21
  end: 311.671
  speaker: unknown
  en: So it seems like this.
  zh: 所以看起来是这样的。
- start: 311.671
  end: 317.537
  speaker: unknown
  en: When I say, according to tradition, this happened or that happened, you know you can take it with a grain of salt.
  zh: 当我说「根据传统」发生了这样或那样的事情时，你知道你可以保持怀疑态度。
- start: 317.537
  end: 319.298
  speaker: unknown
  en: I'm not saying it didn't happen.
  zh: 我并不是说它没有发生。
- start: 319.298
  end: 321.498
  speaker: unknown
  en: But we can't verify that it did as well.
  zh: 但我们也无法证实它确实发生了。
- start: 321.498
  end: 324.799
  speaker: unknown
  en: So that's kind of the way we'll talk about things.
  zh: 所以这就是我们谈论事情的方式。
- start: 324.799
  end: 329.26
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, Clement is known as the fourth Bishop of Rome.
  zh: 现在，克莱门特被称为罗马第四任主教。
- start: 330.98
  end: 341.342
  speaker: unknown
  en: He was Bishop of Rome from 88 to 97. Now, I know what you're thinking.
  zh: 他从88年到97年担任罗马主教。现在，我知道你在想什么。
- start: 342.302
  end: 343.502
  speaker: unknown
  en: What's a bishop?
  zh: 什么是主教？
- start: 343.742
  end: 345.203
  speaker: unknown
  en: We'll get to that in a minute.
  zh: 我们稍后会讲到这个。
- start: 345.203
  end: 347.743
  speaker: unknown
  en: What does it mean to be a bishop?
  zh: 成为主教意味着什么？
- start: 348.287
  end: 349.408
  speaker: unknown
  en: Don't worry, we'll get to that.
  zh: 别担心，我们会讲到的。
- start: 349.408
  end: 355.892
  speaker: unknown
  en: I just want to give you a little background on Clement first before we get into that.
  zh: 在我们深入讨论之前，我想先给你一些关于克莱门特的背景。
- start: 355.892
  end: 361.756
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, he's known as the fourth bishop of Rome, but that assumes that you're counting Peter as the first bishop of Rome.
  zh: 所以，他被称为罗马第四任主教，但这是假设你把彼得算作罗马第一任主教。
- start: 361.756
  end: 367.98
  speaker: unknown
  en: You may know that Peter is given the honorary title of first bishop of Rome.
  zh: 你可能知道彼得被授予罗马第一任主教的荣誉称号。
- start: 369.421
  end: 373.183
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, counting Peter as the first, Clement would be the fourth.
  zh: 所以，如果把彼得算作第一位，克莱门特就是第四位。
- start: 373.183
  end: 389.487
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, according to the story,  He was banished by the Emperor in the year 97, but you'll notice he lived a few extra years, so he was exiled.
  zh: 现在，根据这个故事，他在97年被皇帝流放，但你会注意到他又多活了几年，所以他是被流放了。
- start: 390.668
  end: 406.348
  speaker: unknown
  en: And the legend is that he was martyred because he was sent into exile, but in his exile he performed miracles and converted so many people that this legend is martyrdom.
  zh: 传说他因被流放而殉道，但在流放期间他行了奇迹并使许多人皈依，所以这个传说就是殉道。
- start: 406.348
  end: 409.689
  speaker: unknown
  en: He was thrown into the Black Sea, tied to an anchor.
  zh: 他被绑在锚上扔进了黑海。
- start: 410.609
  end: 412.589
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the story doesn't end there.
  zh: 但故事并没有就此结束。
- start: 413.069
  end: 425.012
  speaker: unknown
  en: In the 9th century, his body was found by Saint Cyril, who, you know, was told in a dream or whatever, and that's how it always happens, where to find the body.
  zh: 在9世纪，他的遗体被圣西里尔发现，你知道，他在梦中或其他什么地方被告知，这就是总是发生的情况，在哪里找到遗体。
- start: 425.012
  end: 445.591
  speaker: unknown
  en: Found the body and the anchor, and brought the body to Rome, and he was buried  In the church that now bears his name, in the city of Rome, the church of San Clemente, and in fact Cyril died while in Rome, and so St. Cyril is buried there too.
  zh: 找到了遗体和锚，并将遗体带回罗马，他被埋葬在现在以他的名字命名的教堂里，在罗马城，圣克莱门特教堂，事实上西里尔在罗马去世，所以圣西里尔也被埋葬在那里。
- start: 445.651
  end: 451.576
  speaker: unknown
  en: And if you come to Rome with me, we will go to San Clemente and we will see that place.
  zh: 如果你和我一起去罗马，我们会去圣克莱门特教堂，我们会看到那个地方。
- start: 451.696
  end: 455.859
  speaker: unknown
  en: But that's the story of Clement.
  zh: 但这就是克莱门特的故事。
- start: 456.36
  end: 461.052
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, the document that I'm going to talk about, do you have a question?
  zh: 现在，关于我要讨论的文件，你有问题吗？
- start: 461.052
  end: 465.634
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, when you say he was banished by the emperor?
  zh: 是的，当你说他被皇帝流放时？
- start: 465.634
  end: 466.794
  speaker: unknown
  en: Not this emperor.
  zh: 不是这个皇帝。
- start: 466.794
  end: 468.494
  speaker: unknown
  en: It was the emperor, Trajan.
  zh: 是图拉真皇帝。
- start: 468.855
  end: 471.856
  speaker: unknown
  en: Different emperor.
  zh: 不同的皇帝。
- start: 471.856
  end: 473.476
  speaker: unknown
  en: Alright.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 477.798
  end: 482.379
  speaker: unknown
  en: I'm going to talk about a document called First Clement, but I don't think it's on the reading list.
  zh: 我要讨论一份名为《克莱门特一书》的文件，但我认为它不在阅读清单上。
- start: 482.379
  end: 484.94
  speaker: unknown
  en: First Clement, are they reading First Clement?
  zh: 《克莱门特一书》，他们在读《克莱门特一书》吗？
- start: 484.94
  end: 488.981
  speaker: unknown
  en: You have it as supplemental, but there's a link on the...
  zh: 你把它作为补充材料，但在...上有一个链接。
- start: 488.981
  end: 489.262
  speaker: unknown
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 489.262
  end: 496.528
  speaker: unknown
  en: So I don't think it's...  it's under required reading, but we'll get to that in a minute.
  zh: 所以我认为它不是...它不在必读材料中，但我们稍后会讲到这个。
- start: 496.528
  end: 500.769
  speaker: unknown
  en: So what does it mean when we say Clemens was the bishop of Rome?
  zh: 那么，当我们说克莱门特是罗马的主教时，这意味着什么？
- start: 500.769
  end: 504.91
  speaker: unknown
  en: What does it mean to be a bishop at the end of the first century?
  zh: 在第一世纪末成为主教意味着什么？
- start: 507.151
  end: 528.837
  speaker: unknown
  en: In some cases, when the church in any given city was founded or started by an apostle, that apostle sort of by default becomes  What we might consider the bishop there because he has authority over any church leader that he would have appointed.
  zh: 在某些情况下，当任何一个城市的教会由使徒创立或开始时，那个使徒默认成为我们可能认为的那里的主教，因为他对他所任命的任何教会领袖都有权威。
- start: 528.998
  end: 549.007
  speaker: unknown
  en: So in the case of the churches that were founded or that Paul was working with,  Paul sort of functions as a bishop in that sense, and he appointed others to work in the local churches when he couldn't be there.
  zh: 所以在保罗创立或与之合作的教会的情况下，保罗在某种意义上充当了主教的角色，当他不能在场时，他任命其他人在当地教会工作。
- start: 549.007
  end: 553.05
  speaker: unknown
  en: And we have a similar situation going on actually in the book of Revelation.
  zh: 实际上，在启示录中我们也有类似的情况。
- start: 553.05
  end: 564.96
  speaker: unknown
  en: The author of the book of Revelation, we'll call him John, is sort of an overseer over the churches of what is now Turkey.
  zh: 启示录的作者，我们称他为约翰，是现在土耳其地区教会的一种监督者。
- start: 565.854
  end: 573.517
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so in those cases, the Apostles appointed their own successors in many ways.
  zh: 所以在这些情况下，使徒们以多种方式任命了他们自己的继承人。
- start: 574.218
  end: 583.842
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so we have that, and we have this tradition of the Apostles being sort of itinerant overseers over a group of churches or an area.
  zh: 所以我们有这个，我们也有使徒作为一群教会或一个地区的巡回监督者的传统。
- start: 585.283
  end: 593.426
  speaker: unknown
  en: But also there are plenty of churches that started in areas maybe that weren't founded by an Apostle.
  zh: 但也有很多教会在可能不是由使徒创立的地区开始。
- start: 594.074
  end: 602.119
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, in those cases, the office of bishop may have evolved similar to what I was telling you before.
  zh: 所以，在这些情况下，主教的职位可能演变得类似于我之前告诉你的。
- start: 602.259
  end: 608.703
  speaker: unknown
  en: When you have only a handful of Christians in a whole city, they can all meet in one house.
  zh: 当一个城市里只有少数基督徒时，他们都可以在一个房子里聚会。
- start: 608.763
  end: 624.648
  speaker: unknown
  en: But as soon as you have multiple house churches meeting in one city, then the local leaders of those house churches, the pastors, have to sort of  Meet periodically so that they can compare notes and stay on the same page.
  zh: 但一旦你在一个城市里有多个家庭教会聚会，那么这些家庭教会的当地领袖，即牧师们，就必须定期见面，以便他们可以交流信息并保持一致。
- start: 624.648
  end: 630.733
  speaker: unknown
  en: So as soon as you have multiple house churches in a city, you have a council of priests.
  zh: 所以一旦你在一个城市里有多个家庭教会，你就有了一个神父委员会。
- start: 630.793
  end: 635.837
  speaker: unknown
  en: You have a council of pastors who are meeting to compare notes.
  zh: 你有一个牧师委员会，他们聚会交流信息。
- start: 637.039
  end: 641.683
  speaker: unknown
  en: As soon as you have a council, the council needs a secretary.
  zh: 一旦你有了委员会，委员会就需要一个秘书。
- start: 641.683
  end: 645.844
  speaker: unknown
  en: I mean, eventually somebody's going to say,  See, we better write down whatever we decide here.
  zh: 我的意思是，最终会有人说，看，我们最好把我们在这里决定的事情写下来。
- start: 645.844
  end: 647.985
  speaker: unknown
  en: Bob, would you take the minutes, you know?
  zh: 鲍勃，你能记录会议纪要吗，你知道吗？
- start: 647.985
  end: 651.087
  speaker: unknown
  en: And Bob, okay, fine, so Bob takes minutes.
  zh: 鲍勃说，好的，没问题，所以鲍勃记录会议纪要。
- start: 651.147
  end: 655.989
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so somebody becomes a kind of secretary for the council.
  zh: 所以有人成为委员会的一种秘书。
- start: 656.61
  end: 666.175
  speaker: unknown
  en: And eventually, if the Christians in one city want to write a letter to the Christians in another city, who are they going to get to write that letter?
  zh: 最终，如果一个城市的基督徒想给另一个城市的基督徒写信，他们会让谁来写这封信？
- start: 666.175
  end: 667.275
  speaker: unknown
  en: Bob, would you write the letter?
  zh: 鲍勃，你能写这封信吗？
- start: 667.275
  end: 668.746
  speaker: unknown
  en: Okay, Bob writes the letter.
  zh: 好的，鲍勃写了这封信。
- start: 668.746
  end: 683.015
  speaker: unknown
  en: So now you see, the office, it isn't even an office in the beginning, it's just, hey, would you do this, sort of evolves into an office that is like a secretary of the Council of Priests.
  zh: 所以现在你看，这个职位，一开始甚至不是一个职位，它只是，嘿，你能做这个吗，逐渐演变成一个类似于神父委员会秘书的职位。
- start: 684.537
  end: 695.123
  speaker: unknown
  en: And it is this person who would write a letter on behalf of the Christians in that city, and who would speak for the church of that city.
  zh: 正是这个人会代表那个城市的基督徒写信，并为那个城市的教会发言。
- start: 696.304
  end: 704.172
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in effect,  This is what Clement of Rome does when he writes a document on behalf of the Christians in Rome.
  zh: 实际上，这就是罗马的克莱门特代表罗马的基督徒写文件时所做的。
- start: 704.632
  end: 708.073
  speaker: unknown
  en: He writes a letter to the Christians in Corinth.
  zh: 他给哥林多的基督徒写了一封信。
- start: 708.513
  end: 712.295
  speaker: unknown
  en: Same city that Paul wrote 1st and 2nd Corinthians to, right?
  zh: 就是保罗写哥林多前书和后书的那个城市，对吧？
- start: 713.435
  end: 715.896
  speaker: unknown
  en: But it's not called 3rd Corinthians or anything.
  zh: 但它并不被称为哥林多三书或其他什么。
- start: 715.896
  end: 723.279
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's called 1st Clement, because it's the first letter that we know of that we have written by Clement of Rome.
  zh: 它被称为《克莱门特一书》，因为这是我们所知的罗马的克莱门特写的第一封信。
- start: 723.279
  end: 729.748
  speaker: unknown
  en: By the way, there is a 2nd Clement  but almost certainly not written by the same person, so don't worry about that.
  zh: 顺便说一下，还有一封《克莱门特二书》，但几乎可以肯定不是同一个人写的，所以不用担心那个。
- start: 729.908
  end: 739.531
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the point is, is that someone fulfills this role of speaking on behalf of the church in a certain city.
  zh: 但重点是，有人履行了代表某个城市的教会发言的角色。
- start: 741.491
  end: 762.336
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, at some point, towards the end of the first century, beginning of the second century, we see an evolution, though, where it's not simply that  someone is speaking for the church and the council of priests says, hey Bob, will you write this letter, tell them this and that, and then Bob writes the letter.
  zh: 现在，在第一世纪末、第二世纪初的某个时候，我们看到了一种演变，不再仅仅是某人代表教会发言，神父委员会说，嘿鲍勃，你能写这封信吗，告诉他们这个那个，然后鲍勃写信。
- start: 762.656
  end: 778.101
  speaker: unknown
  en: And we see a shift from the council tells the spokesperson what to say, it shifts to now this person starts telling the rest of the council what to say and do.
  zh: 我们看到从委员会告诉发言人说什么，转变为现在这个人开始告诉委员会其他成员说什么和做什么。
- start: 778.101
  end: 787.537
  speaker: unknown
  en: And this person, you know, again based on the idea that  Every area or group or city of churches has to have an overseer.
  zh: 这个人，你知道，再次基于每个地区或群体或城市的教会都必须有一个监督者的想法。
- start: 787.537
  end: 792.101
  speaker: unknown
  en: This person becomes the authority over the rest of the council.
  zh: 这个人成为了委员会其他成员的权威。
- start: 792.101
  end: 800.147
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's not always clear how that happens, and it's certainly not clear that it happens the same way in each place.
  zh: 这是如何发生的并不总是清楚，而且肯定不清楚它在每个地方都以相同的方式发生。
- start: 800.748
  end: 811.116
  speaker: unknown
  en: But by the time we see Clemens holding this office in the city of Rome, he is more than simply the secretary of the council.
  zh: 但当我们看到克莱门特在罗马城担任这个职位时，他不仅仅是委员会的秘书。
- start: 811.124
  end: 815.087
  speaker: unknown
  en: He is more than simply the guy who's taking the minutes and writing the letters.
  zh: 他不仅仅是记录会议纪要和写信的人。
- start: 815.087
  end: 816.608
  speaker: unknown
  en: He does write a letter.
  zh: 他确实写了一封信。
- start: 816.608
  end: 822.272
  speaker: unknown
  en: He writes on behalf of the Christians in Rome, but he writes with authority.
  zh: 他代表罗马的基督徒写信，但他写信时带有权威。
- start: 823.153
  end: 841.487
  speaker: unknown
  en: And it's interesting because already by this time, he holds an office that has authority not only over the other priests or pastors in the city of Rome, but he writes with authority as if he has authority even over the Christians in another city.
  zh: 有趣的是，到这个时候，他所担任的职位不仅对罗马城的其他神父或牧师有权威，而且他写信时带有权威，好像他甚至对另一个城市的基督徒也有权威。
- start: 841.516
  end: 846.799
  speaker: unknown
  en: He writes this letter to the Christians in Corinth as though they ought to listen to him.
  zh: 他给哥林多的基督徒写这封信，好像他们应该听他的。
- start: 848.06
  end: 850.841
  speaker: unknown
  en: And we'll talk about why in a minute.
  zh: 我们稍后会讨论为什么。
- start: 850.882
  end: 852.882
  speaker: unknown
  en: But let me tell you a little bit about the letter.
  zh: 但让我先告诉你一些关于这封信的情况。
- start: 854.484
  end: 857.665
  speaker: unknown
  en: Apparently there were some divisions in the church of Corinth.
  zh: 显然，哥林多教会内部存在一些分歧。
- start: 857.846
  end: 869.012
  speaker: unknown
  en: Divisions not too dissimilar from divisions we already see in the Pauline correspondence with Corinth.
  zh: 这些分歧与我们在保罗与哥林多的通信中已经看到的分歧并不太不同。
- start: 870.449
  end: 879.811
  speaker: unknown
  en: In Paul's letters to the Corinthians, there are these issues of rich and poor, philosophical and whatever the opposite of that is.
  zh: 在保罗写给哥林多人的信中，存在这些贫富、哲学和与之相反的问题。
- start: 879.931
  end: 892.254
  speaker: unknown
  en: We see these divisions in the church, and some of those divisions are still there at the time that Clement is writing to the same church, now, what, 40 years later?
  zh: 我们看到教会中存在这些分歧，而当克莱门特写信给同一个教会时，现在是什么，40年后？一些分歧仍然存在。
- start: 892.654
  end: 896.275
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, 40, 45 years later, something like that.
  zh: 是的，40年，45年后，差不多是这样。
- start: 897.91
  end: 914.434
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, apparently, what's going on, and it's very difficult to tell because Clement doesn't really go into the details of what the issue is, but there's some division and there's some factioning going on in the Church of Corinth, and it seems to be over authority in the Church of Corinth.
  zh: 所以，显然，正在发生的事情很难说清楚，因为克莱门特并没有真正深入问题的细节，但哥林多教会存在一些分歧和派系，似乎是关于哥林多教会的权威问题。
- start: 914.914
  end: 925.997
  speaker: unknown
  en: Perhaps it's over who ought to fulfill the same role in the Church of Corinth that Clement fulfills in Rome.
  zh: 也许是关于谁应该在哥林多教会履行克莱门特在罗马履行的同样角色。
- start: 926.561
  end: 928.903
  speaker: unknown
  en: There also seems to be a generational issue going on.
  zh: 似乎还存在一个代际问题。
- start: 928.903
  end: 933.966
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, the older Christians are opposing the younger Christians in Corinth.
  zh: 换句话说，哥林多的年长基督徒反对年轻基督徒。
- start: 934.027
  end: 947.817
  speaker: unknown
  en: So it could be that the older Christians are perhaps arguing for, wait a minute, this person's only supposed to be the secretary of the council, and the younger Christians are arguing for a more evolved hierarchy.
  zh: 所以可能是年长的基督徒在争论，等一下，这个人只应该是委员会的秘书，而年轻的基督徒则在争取一个更进化的等级制度。
- start: 947.817
  end: 949.138
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's unclear.
  zh: 这是不清楚的。
- start: 949.138
  end: 950.199
  speaker: unknown
  en: Maybe it's the other way around.
  zh: 也许情况恰恰相反。
- start: 950.199
  end: 951.259
  speaker: unknown
  en: I mean, who knows?
  zh: 我的意思是，谁知道呢？
- start: 951.34
  end: 956.003
  speaker: unknown
  en: But we have some of these divisions going on.
  zh: 但我们确实存在一些这样的分歧。
- start: 956.109
  end: 964.814
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so Clement writes this letter on behalf of the Christians of Rome, but he writes it with this authority.
  zh: 所以克莱门特代表罗马的基督徒写了这封信，但他写信时带有这种权威。
- start: 965.254
  end: 972.178
  speaker: unknown
  en: And by the way, the letter is written at almost exactly the same time as the writing of the book of Revelation.
  zh: 顺便说一下，这封信的写作时间几乎与启示录的写作时间完全相同。
- start: 973.879
  end: 981.102
  speaker: unknown
  en: If you've ever read the book of Revelation, it's very symbolic and difficult to interpret.
  zh: 如果你读过启示录，你会发现它非常具有象征性且难以解释。
- start: 981.483
  end: 983.624
  speaker: unknown
  en: This letter is not like that at all.
  zh: 这封信完全不是那样的。
- start: 983.824
  end: 985.505
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is very practical.
  zh: 这是非常实用的。
- start: 986.858
  end: 990.74
  speaker: unknown
  en: He sort of goes on and on about things without ever really getting to the point.
  zh: 他不断地谈论事情，却从未真正切入要点。
- start: 990.92
  end: 996.002
  speaker: unknown
  en: Which, you know, you can see why I didn't make it into the Bible anyway.
  zh: 你知道，你可以看出为什么它没有被收入圣经。
- start: 996.103
  end: 1010.351
  speaker: unknown
  en: But it was written about the same time, right around the year 95. Maybe, I think, a little bit earlier, because the book of Revelation is written during a persecution under the emperor Domitian.
  zh: 但它写于大约同一时期，就在95年左右。也许，我认为，稍早一些，因为启示录是在多米田皇帝统治下的迫害期间写的。
- start: 1010.351
  end: 1018.959
  speaker: unknown
  en: And Clement has a section where he  He's still willing to talk about the Roman emperors as appointed by God, we should pray for them and stuff.
  zh: 克莱门特有一段内容，他仍然愿意谈论罗马皇帝是神所任命的，我们应该为他们祈祷之类的。
- start: 1018.959
  end: 1025.321
  speaker: unknown
  en: So it seems like the persecution, that particular persecution hasn't broken out yet when Clement is writing.
  zh: 所以看起来当克莱门特写信时，那次特定的迫害还没有爆发。
- start: 1025.941
  end: 1040.076
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so he's willing to pray for government leaders and describe them in positive terms that  Doesn't seem like he would if the persecution had started in 95. So, maybe 1 Clement is written a little earlier than Revelation.
  zh: 所以他愿意为政府领导人祈祷，并用积极的词语描述他们，如果95年迫害已经开始，他似乎不会这样做。所以，也许《克莱门特一书》比启示录写得稍早。
- start: 1040.076
  end: 1042.898
  speaker: unknown
  en: But at any rate, 1 Clement is very different in tone.
  zh: 但无论如何，《克莱门特一书》在语气上非常不同。
- start: 1042.898
  end: 1048.301
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's not apocalyptic, it's not symbolic, it's not theological.
  zh: 它不是启示性的，不是象征性的，也不是神学性的。
- start: 1048.341
  end: 1057.908
  speaker: unknown
  en: It is a very practical letter, and it conforms to an ancient form of a sort of negotiation or peacekeeping letter.
  zh: 这是一封非常实用的信，它符合一种古老的谈判或维和信函的形式。
- start: 1058.088
  end: 1066.077
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so what he says is,  He's going to send some negotiators from Rome to help the Corinthians sort out their dispute.
  zh: 所以他说，他将派一些谈判者从罗马去帮助哥林多人解决他们的争议。
- start: 1066.077
  end: 1073.959
  speaker: unknown
  en: So he never really says exactly what the dispute is because he sort of says, well, you know, these delegates will sort that out.
  zh: 所以他从未真正说明争议的具体内容，因为他说，嗯，你知道，这些代表会解决这个问题。
- start: 1073.959
  end: 1081.921
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the bigger picture problem for Clement is that the disputes are embarrassing the church.
  zh: 但对克莱门特来说，更大的问题是这些争议正在使教会难堪。
- start: 1082.401
  end: 1096.256
  speaker: unknown
  en: So we've got to cut it out with the internal disputes because  It's an embarrassment to the church and it's causing some to doubt the faith and it's hurting the cause of spreading the gospel.
  zh: 所以我们必须停止内部争议，因为这让教会蒙羞，导致一些人对信仰产生怀疑，并损害了传播福音的事业。
- start: 1097.837
  end: 1101.078
  speaker: unknown
  en: So that's what the letter is about, in case you don't read it.
  zh: 这就是这封信的内容，以防你没有读过。
- start: 1102.879
  end: 1109.862
  speaker: unknown
  en: But what's really significant here is the tone and the assumption behind the letter.
  zh: 但真正重要的是这封信背后的语气和假设。
- start: 1110.922
  end: 1122.192
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because someone who is not an apostle is writing to a church  That is not their church, and assumes the authority to tell them what to do.
  zh: 因为一个不是使徒的人在给一个不是他们教会的教会写信，并假定有权威告诉他们该做什么。
- start: 1124.533
  end: 1145.519
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in fact, the assumption that Clement is working with here is that because he is writing as the person who functions as the bishop of Rome, that he has some authority over the other church.
  zh: 事实上，克莱门特在这里的假设是，因为他是以罗马主教的身份写信，所以他对其他教会有一定的权威。
- start: 1146.468
  end: 1148.83
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because who was the first bishop of Rome?
  zh: 因为谁是罗马的第一任主教？
- start: 1148.83
  end: 1150.651
  speaker: unknown
  en: Who was bishop of Rome before him?
  zh: 在他之前谁是罗马的主教？
- start: 1150.651
  end: 1151.511
  speaker: unknown
  en: Peter.
  zh: 彼得。
- start: 1153.173
  end: 1176.648
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, we're going to talk about this in a minute, but the assumption here is that whatever the fourth bishop of Rome says is obviously consistent with what the third bishop of Rome said, which is consistent with what the second bishop of Rome said, which is consistent with what the first bishop of Rome said, who was Peter.
  zh: 所以，我们稍后会讨论这个，但这里的假设是，罗马第四任主教所说的显然与第三任主教所说的一致，与第二任主教所说的一致，与第一任主教彼得所说的一致。
- start: 1176.718
  end: 1184.123
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so the point here is that what Clement says ultimately comes from Peter.
  zh: 所以这里的要点是，克莱门特所说的最终来自彼得。
- start: 1184.123
  end: 1185.463
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's the assumption.
  zh: 这就是假设。
- start: 1185.524
  end: 1188.786
  speaker: unknown
  en: What Clement says ultimately comes from Peter.
  zh: 克莱门特所说的最终来自彼得。
- start: 1188.946
  end: 1190.907
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because he wouldn't make up anything new.
  zh: 因为他不会编造任何新的东西。
- start: 1192.388
  end: 1200.714
  speaker: unknown
  en: He even implies at one point that this very letter may be inspired by the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 他甚至在某处暗示这封信可能是受圣灵启发的。
- start: 1202.495
  end: 1223.965
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so his authority  His authority for being able to write this letter and give advice to the Corinthians and tell them what to do and speak to them almost in a parental sort of tone, his authority comes from the fact that he is the successor to the same office that Peter held in Rome.
  zh: 所以他的权威，他能够写这封信并给哥林多人建议，告诉他们该做什么，以几乎父母般的语气对他们说话的权威，来自于他是彼得在罗马所担任职位的继承人这一事实。
- start: 1225.266
  end: 1236.085
  speaker: unknown
  en: And that concept of  The bishop being the successor of the original bishop in any given city is called apostolic succession.
  zh: 这种主教是任何给定城市原始主教的继承人的概念被称为使徒继承。
- start: 1241.927
  end: 1250.57
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in this letter of 1st Clement is where we begin to see this concept of apostolic succession played out in youth.
  zh: 在《克莱门特一书》中，我们开始看到这种使徒继承的概念在年轻人中展现出来。
- start: 1252.131
  end: 1253.471
  speaker: unknown
  en: The idea is this.
  zh: 这个想法是这样的。
- start: 1254.266
  end: 1262.608
  speaker: unknown
  en: that there is a direct and unbroken chain or line from the apostles to the bishops.
  zh: 从使徒到主教有一条直接且不间断的链条或线。
- start: 1263.188
  end: 1272.25
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because in every case, the bishop is the overseer of the churches of a city or an area.
  zh: 因为在每种情况下，主教都是一个城市或地区教会的监督者。
- start: 1272.25
  end: 1279.291
  speaker: unknown
  en: And before that person held that position, someone else held that position.
  zh: 在那个人担任那个职位之前，有其他人担任过那个职位。
- start: 1280.191
  end: 1283.992
  speaker: unknown
  en: And before that person, someone else going back to an apostle.
  zh: 在那个人之前，还有其他人可以追溯到一位使徒。
- start: 1285.23
  end: 1296.478
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the idea is that each bishop ought to be able to trace his pedigree back to an apostle.
  zh: 所以这个想法是，每个主教都应该能够追溯他的血统到一位使徒。
- start: 1298.099
  end: 1311.128
  speaker: unknown
  en: Which means that whatever any given bishop teaches is supported by the idea that that teaching goes back to an apostle.
  zh: 这意味着任何特定主教所教导的内容都得到了这种教导可以追溯到使徒的想法的支持。
- start: 1312.506
  end: 1318.95
  speaker: unknown
  en: This idea of apostolic succession is going to be picked up by one of our early theologians, Irenaeus.
  zh: 这种使徒继承的想法将被我们早期神学家之一爱任纽所采纳。
- start: 1318.95
  end: 1320.571
  speaker: unknown
  en: You'll read him later.
  zh: 你稍后会读到他的著作。
- start: 1321.952
  end: 1323.153
  speaker: unknown
  en: But he's going to flesh it out.
  zh: 但他会详细阐述它。
- start: 1323.153
  end: 1325.334
  speaker: unknown
  en: But we already see it in 1st Clement.
  zh: 但我们在《克莱门特一书》中已经看到了这一点。
- start: 1328.096
  end: 1337.402
  speaker: unknown
  en: Another way to look at it is that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are sort of passed down by consecration.
  zh: 另一种看待它的方式是，圣灵的恩赐通过祝圣传递下来。
- start: 1338.654
  end: 1352.498
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so as each new generation of church leaders is commissioned and consecrated, the mantle of authority, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are passed down from one generation of church leaders to the next.
  zh: 因此，当每一代新的教会领袖被委任和祝圣时，权威的衣钵和圣灵的恩赐就从一代教会领袖传给下一代。
- start: 1352.558
  end: 1364.401
  speaker: unknown
  en: Which means that what they teach is trustworthy because if you back up through that chain of consecration, you back up all the way to the Apostles and then through them to Jesus Himself.
  zh: 这意味着他们所教导的是可信的，因为如果你通过那条祝圣的链条追溯，你可以一直追溯到使徒，然后通过他们追溯到耶稣本人。
- start: 1365.451
  end: 1368.733
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, the bishops are the successors of the apostles.
  zh: 所以，主教们是使徒的继承人。
- start: 1369.113
  end: 1377.459
  speaker: unknown
  en: Therefore, they ought to be obeyed as one would obey an apostle, as one would obey Peter or Paul.
  zh: 因此，他们应该被服从，就像人们服从使徒一样，就像人们服从彼得或保罗一样。
- start: 1377.459
  end: 1390.814
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, one of the things you have to keep in mind is that in the worldview of the early church, and for that matter, the ancient world in general, newer is not necessarily better.
  zh: 现在，你必须记住的一件事是，在早期教会的世界观中，实际上，在整个古代世界中，新的不一定就是更好的。
- start: 1390.814
  end: 1395.879
  speaker: unknown
  en: We were just having a conversation during the break about the mighty Atari ST computer.
  zh: 我们刚刚在休息时讨论了强大的雅达利ST电脑。
- start: 1395.879
  end: 1404.626
  speaker: unknown
  en: It was my first computer, had no hard drive, everything you had to store you had to put on one three and a half inch stick.
  zh: 那是我的第一台电脑，没有硬盘，你必须把所有要存储的东西都放在一个三英寸半的磁盘上。
- start: 1404.647
  end: 1408.69
  speaker: unknown
  en: But that was pretty much the best computer, it was as good as a Mac back then.
  zh: 但那基本上是最好的电脑，当时它和Mac一样好。
- start: 1409.151
  end: 1414.756
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, let's say you needed a new computer, and I said, well gee, I have two computers.
  zh: 现在，假设你需要一台新电脑，我说，嗯，我有两台电脑。
- start: 1415.657
  end: 1416.958
  speaker: unknown
  en: You can have one of them.
  zh: 你可以选一台。
- start: 1418.386
  end: 1426.73
  speaker: unknown
  en: One's a brand new Apple, and the other is an Atari SP from 1986. Which one do you want?
  zh: 一台是全新的苹果电脑，另一台是1986年的雅达利SP。你想要哪一台？
- start: 1426.871
  end: 1433.614
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, you being the humble Christian that you are would probably take the Atari, but that's not the point.
  zh: 现在，作为一个谦卑的基督徒，你可能会选择雅达利，但这不是重点。
- start: 1433.614
  end: 1440.298
  speaker: unknown
  en: The point is you would want the new one, because when it comes to technology, obviously newer is better, right?
  zh: 重点是你会想要新的那台，因为说到技术，显然越新越好，对吧？
- start: 1440.718
  end: 1443.72
  speaker: unknown
  en: But their world is not a world of technology.
  zh: 但他们的世界不是一个技术的世界。
- start: 1443.72
  end: 1445.801
  speaker: unknown
  en: Their world is a world of tradition.
  zh: 他们的世界是一个传统的世界。
- start: 1446.322
  end: 1447.663
  speaker: unknown
  en: Newer is not better.
  zh: 新的不一定更好。
- start: 1447.663
  end: 1450.003
  speaker: unknown
  en: In fact, older is better.
  zh: 事实上，旧的更好。
- start: 1450.023
  end: 1454.424
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because what is older is that which has stood the test of time.
  zh: 因为更古老的东西是经受住了时间考验的。
- start: 1455.185
  end: 1457.785
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so it's more trustworthy.
  zh: 所以它更值得信赖。
- start: 1457.785
  end: 1460.246
  speaker: unknown
  en: The old stuff is more trustworthy.
  zh: 旧的东西更值得信赖。
- start: 1460.246
  end: 1464.407
  speaker: unknown
  en: The new stuff is therefore automatically suspect.
  zh: 因此，新的东西自动就受到怀疑。
- start: 1464.747
  end: 1472.569
  speaker: unknown
  en: So if you think about that in terms of theology, what that means is that the apostles were the first authority.
  zh: 所以如果你从神学的角度来思考这个问题，这意味着使徒是第一权威。
- start: 1472.749
  end: 1474.77
  speaker: unknown
  en: They knew Jesus personally.
  zh: 他们亲自认识耶稣。
- start: 1475.04
  end: 1484.667
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, in the mind of the early Christians, there's no possible way that an Apostle could be wrong about anything.
  zh: 所以，在早期基督徒的心目中，使徒不可能在任何事情上犯错。
- start: 1487.509
  end: 1492.292
  speaker: unknown
  en: But, the point is that the Apostles were automatically right.
  zh: 但是，重点是使徒自动就是对的。
- start: 1492.753
  end: 1496.175
  speaker: unknown
  en: They represent the beginning of the tradition.
  zh: 他们代表了传统的开始。
- start: 1496.175
  end: 1498.556
  speaker: unknown
  en: They represent the oldest tradition.
  zh: 他们代表了最古老的传统。
- start: 1499.397
  end: 1506.207
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, an early Christian theologian would never want to  Have anybody think they were coming up with anything new?
  zh: 所以，早期基督教神学家绝不会希望任何人认为他们提出了什么新东西？
- start: 1506.507
  end: 1512.491
  speaker: unknown
  en: If they said something new, it was only because they were finding a new way to clarify the old tradition.
  zh: 如果他们说了什么新东西，那只是因为他们找到了阐明旧传统的新方式。
- start: 1514.633
  end: 1526.262
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, the apostles represent the traditions, and they taught the first generation of church leaders after them, the people that they themselves chose and commissioned and appointed.
  zh: 所以，使徒代表了传统，他们教导了他们之后的第一代教会领袖，这些人是他们自己选择、委任和任命的。
- start: 1526.582
  end: 1530.585
  speaker: unknown
  en: And that generation of church leaders taught the next generation of church leaders.
  zh: 那一代教会领袖又教导了下一代教会领袖。
- start: 1531.226
  end: 1544.225
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so the idea is that  What's being taught by a bishop in any given city is assumed to be consistent with what had been taught by the church leaders in every generation from the apostles.
  zh: 所以这个想法是，任何一个城市的主教所教导的内容都被假定为与使徒以来每一代教会领袖所教导的内容一致。
- start: 1544.285
  end: 1554.572
  speaker: unknown
  en: So if any new idea comes up, you better be able to show that it's consistent with the old ideas or it's automatically suspect and maybe it's heresy.
  zh: 所以如果出现任何新想法，你最好能够证明它与旧想法一致，否则它就自动受到怀疑，甚至可能被视为异端。
- start: 1557.041
  end: 1588.786
  speaker: unknown
  en: You're going to read the letters of Ignatius of Antioch, and I'll talk about him in a few minutes, but when talking about this idea of apostolic succession and the trustworthiness of the teaching of the church based on this concept, he used a word to talk about the theology that the apostles taught and that  From them the whole church everywhere teaches.
  zh: 你将要读安提阿的伊格内修斯的书信，我稍后会谈到他，但在谈到这种使徒继承的想法和基于这个概念的教会教导的可信性时，他用了一个词来谈论使徒所教导的神学，以及从他们那里整个教会到处所教导的内容。
- start: 1588.786
  end: 1596.712
  speaker: unknown
  en: He used the word to talk about the universal church and what it teaches universally.
  zh: 他用这个词来谈论普世教会和它普遍教导的内容。
- start: 1597.533
  end: 1601.076
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is Ignatius of Antioch.
  zh: 这是安提阿的伊格内修斯。
- start: 1603.458
  end: 1608.062
  speaker: unknown
  en: And the word is a word that means more or less universal.
  zh: 这个词的意思或多或少是「普世的」。
- start: 1608.062
  end: 1609.222
  speaker: unknown
  en: The word is Catholic.
  zh: 这个词是「公教会」。
- start: 1610.464
  end: 1616.307
  speaker: unknown
  en: Catholic with a small c, as you know from the asterisk at the bottom of the Nicene Creed, right?
  zh: 小写的「公教会」，就像你在尼西亚信经底部的星号中看到的那样，对吧？
- start: 1616.428
  end: 1624.753
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the point here is that, yes, we know the word Catholic originally means universal, so the Catholic Church is a universal church.
  zh: 但这里的重点是，是的，我们知道「公教会」这个词最初的意思是普世的，所以公教会是一个普世的教会。
- start: 1625.173
  end: 1636.6
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the point of using that word is exactly because it's not necessarily true that everybody taught the same thing and everybody believed the same thing.
  zh: 但使用这个词的重点恰恰是因为并不一定每个人都教导同样的东西，每个人都相信同样的东西。
- start: 1636.857
  end: 1657.672
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, when confronted with alternative interpretations, alternative teaching, when confronted with those extremes, someone like Ignatius is going to say, well, that's not what the Catholic Church teaches, that's not what's been taught by the Universal Church since the Apostles, that's something else.
  zh: 换句话说，当面对不同的解释、不同的教导，当面对那些极端观点时，像伊格内修斯这样的人会说，嗯，这不是公教会所教导的，这不是自使徒以来普世教会所教导的，这是别的东西。
- start: 1657.833
  end: 1666.819
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so the word Catholic, while it means universal, it's originally used to say, well, this is Catholic, and that's not.
  zh: 所以「公教会」这个词，虽然意味着普世的，但它最初是用来说，嗯，这是公教会的，那不是。
- start: 1667.31
  end: 1670.052
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is Catholic, and that's not.
  zh: 这是公教会的，那不是。
- start: 1670.052
  end: 1677.956
  speaker: unknown
  en: What is meant by that is, this is Orthodox, this is correct, this is the mainstream church, this is the majority, and those other things are not.
  zh: 这句话的意思是，这是正统的，这是正确的，这是主流教会，这是大多数人的观点，而那些其他的东西不是。
- start: 1678.236
  end: 1688.061
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, you know, what is Catholic, then, is what is believed or shared by all Christians worldwide.
  zh: 所以，你知道，什么是公教会的，就是全世界所有基督徒所相信或共享的。
- start: 1688.441
  end: 1702.672
  speaker: unknown
  en: But again, that sort of begs the question, you know, the words used to exclude those  those interpretations that are on the extreme that diverge off from the mainstream.
  zh: 但是再次，这种说法有点循环论证，你知道，这些词被用来排除那些极端的、偏离主流的解释。
- start: 1702.672
  end: 1704.372
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's why they're called heresies.
  zh: 这就是为什么它们被称为异端。
- start: 1705.853
  end: 1709.434
  speaker: unknown
  en: Again, the point of all this is for the sake of unity.
  zh: 再次强调，所有这些的目的都是为了统一。
- start: 1709.434
  end: 1714.516
  speaker: unknown
  en: In fact, Ignatius himself will say, I am a man set on unity.
  zh: 事实上，伊格内修斯自己会说，我是一个致力于统一的人。
- start: 1714.596
  end: 1717.037
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's all about keeping the Church one.
  zh: 这一切都是为了保持教会的合一。
- start: 1717.037
  end: 1720.643
  speaker: unknown
  en: Jesus prayed that all of his followers would be one.
  zh: 耶稣祈祷他所有的追随者都合而为一。
- start: 1720.643
  end: 1724.086
  speaker: unknown
  en: Paul talks about one faith, one baptism.
  zh: 保罗谈到一信、一洗。
- start: 1724.086
  end: 1734.554
  speaker: unknown
  en: The unity of the church is extremely important, and that's what's going on here, because if unity isn't maintained, then there's no longer one church.
  zh: 教会的合一极其重要，这就是这里正在发生的事情，因为如果不保持合一，那就不再是一个教会了。
- start: 1735.655
  end: 1767.97
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, eventually the word orthodox will also be used in the same way, to say that which the mainstream or the majority church teaches as opposed to heresy, and then heresy is  whatever does not agree with the tradition, whatever diverges off from the older teaching, the apostolic teaching, the teaching that was handed down from the apostles and then through each successive generation of bishops.
  zh: 所以，最终「正统」这个词也会以同样的方式被使用，用来指主流或大多数教会所教导的，与异端相对；而异端则是任何不符合传统的东西，任何偏离古老教导、使徒教导、从使徒传下来并通过每一代主教相继传承的教导的东西。
- start: 1768.311
  end: 1777.738
  speaker: unknown
  en: And this was meant to guarantee uniformity of teaching and therefore the unity of the church.
  zh: 这是为了保证教导的一致性，从而保证教会的合一。
- start: 1779.264
  end: 1781.105
  speaker: unknown
  en: We have this apostolic teaching.
  zh: 我们有这种使徒的教导。
- start: 1781.105
  end: 1787.146
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's passed down from generation to generation through the apostolic succession, through the succession of bishops.
  zh: 它通过使徒继承，通过主教的继承，代代相传。
- start: 1788.447
  end: 1795.329
  speaker: unknown
  en: And anything that is not consistent with that or doesn't agree with that is therefore considered heresy.
  zh: 任何与之不一致或不符合的东西都被视为异端。
- start: 1796.249
  end: 1801.911
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now remember, we're still at the tail end of the first century here.
  zh: 现在记住，我们仍然处在第一世纪的末尾。
- start: 1801.911
  end: 1807.232
  speaker: unknown
  en: And then, you know, working within the next half hour, we'll get into the beginning of the second century.
  zh: 然后，你知道，在接下来的半小时内，我们将进入第二世纪的开始。
- start: 1808.697
  end: 1813.338
  speaker: unknown
  en: There is no consensus on a Christian New Testament yet.
  zh: 对于基督教新约还没有达成共识。
- start: 1813.798
  end: 1821.74
  speaker: unknown
  en: We have these apostolic documents floating around, but at best they're being passed around in collections.
  zh: 我们有这些使徒文件在流传，但充其量它们只是以集合的形式被传阅。
- start: 1821.74
  end: 1826.001
  speaker: unknown
  en: Somebody's got Paul's letters, somebody's got the four Gospels, whatever.
  zh: 有人有保罗的书信，有人有四福音，诸如此类。
- start: 1827.202
  end: 1839.451
  speaker: unknown
  en: At this point we're not even sure if all of the 95  The book of Revelation is just being written, and that's if you accept an early date from Revelation.
  zh: 在这一点上，我们甚至不确定所有的95...启示录正在被写作，这还是如果你接受启示录的早期日期的话。
- start: 1839.711
  end: 1840.231
  speaker: unknown
  en: Which I do.
  zh: 我确实接受。
- start: 1840.231
  end: 1846.152
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the point is that we're not even sure that we're done writing apostolic documents yet, right?
  zh: 但重点是我们甚至不确定我们是否已经完成了使徒文件的写作，对吧？
- start: 1846.152
  end: 1849.453
  speaker: unknown
  en: So there's no Christian New Testament yet, per se.
  zh: 所以严格来说，还没有基督教新约。
- start: 1849.453
  end: 1855.634
  speaker: unknown
  en: The documents are there for the most part, but there's no consensus on which documents ought to be in the Christian Bible.
  zh: 大部分文件都存在，但对于哪些文件应该被收入基督教圣经还没有达成共识。
- start: 1855.634
  end: 1857.794
  speaker: unknown
  en: We're going to talk about that probably next week.
  zh: 我们可能下周会讨论这个问题。
- start: 1857.794
  end: 1866.893
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the point is that if you don't have a New Testament yet,  How do you know what the Church teaches and what Christians believe?
  zh: 但重点是，如果你还没有新约，你怎么知道教会教导什么，基督徒相信什么？
- start: 1866.893
  end: 1873.918
  speaker: unknown
  en: How do you know which interpretations of the life and ministry of Jesus are correct?
  zh: 你怎么知道哪些对耶稣生平和事工的解释是正确的？
- start: 1874.819
  end: 1879.923
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, the way you know what teachings are correct is by listening to your bishop.
  zh: 嗯，你知道哪些教导是正确的方法就是听从你的主教。
- start: 1880.164
  end: 1889.211
  speaker: unknown
  en: So as the office of bishop emerges, it becomes the teaching authority in the Church.
  zh: 所以随着主教职位的出现，它成为了教会中的教导权威。
- start: 1889.932
  end: 1898.018
  speaker: unknown
  en: A teaching authority that's seen as, again, the successor backing up through the generations to the apostles.
  zh: 这种教导权威被视为，再次强调，通过几代人追溯到使徒的继承者。
- start: 1898.299
  end: 1910.588
  speaker: unknown
  en: So any city church, in other words, any group of house churches in a given city, can trace the succession of its own bishop back, and many of them can trace it back to an apostle.
  zh: 所以任何城市教会，换句话说，任何给定城市中的家庭教会群体，都可以追溯其自己主教的继承，而且许多可以追溯到一位使徒。
- start: 1910.588
  end: 1935.053
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now again, some of these  Apostolic Foundings of Churches are maybe somewhat legendary, but be that as it may, the point is that it was understood that if you could trace the succession of your bishop back to an apostle, that was taken as a sign of the trustworthiness of the teaching of the present bishop.
  zh: 现在再次强调，这些教会的使徒创立中有些可能有些传奇色彩，但无论如何，重点是人们理解，如果你能追溯你的主教的继承到一位使徒，那就被视为现任主教教导可信度的标志。
- start: 1936.937
  end: 1955.8
  speaker: unknown
  en: Even though we acknowledge, we know now that the office of bishop sort of evolves in most cases, but the point is that every church, and especially every major city church, would have a sort of pedigree or succession of the bishops, going back to the apostle who is supposed to have founded that church.
  zh: 尽管我们承认，我们现在知道主教职位在大多数情况下是一种演变，但重点是每个教会，尤其是每个主要城市的教会，都会有一种主教的血统或继承，可以追溯到据说创立该教会的使徒。
- start: 1956.26
  end: 1962.921
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in the case of Rome, the apostle who is supposed to have founded the church is Peter.
  zh: 在罗马的情况下，据说创立教会的使徒是彼得。
- start: 1963.022
  end: 1969.848
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, even though we have no evidence  Peter founded the church in Rome.
  zh: 现在，尽管我们没有证据证明彼得创立了罗马的教会。
- start: 1970.069
  end: 1974.272
  speaker: unknown
  en: In all probability, there were Christians in Rome before Peter ever got there.
  zh: 很可能在彼得到达那里之前，罗马就已经有基督徒了。
- start: 1974.953
  end: 1982.758
  speaker: unknown
  en: Still, Peter's presence there gives him a sort of authority in that church.
  zh: 尽管如此，彼得在那里的存在给了他在那个教会中某种权威。
- start: 1982.758
  end: 1985.36
  speaker: unknown
  en: He is the apostle associated with Rome.
  zh: 他是与罗马相关联的使徒。
- start: 1985.36
  end: 2020.265
  speaker: unknown
  en: Even though Paul gets there eventually too, and both Peter and Paul are martyred in Rome,  And of course, if you go to Rome today, you will see the presence of both Peter and Paul, but Peter is the one who's sort of taken as the original apostle authority over the Church of Rome, so he's given this honorary title of the first bishop of Rome, which means that every successive bishop of Rome is the successor to Peter in that office.
  zh: 尽管保罗最终也到了那里，彼得和保罗都在罗马殉道，当然，如果你今天去罗马，你会看到彼得和保罗的存在，但彼得被视为罗马教会原始的使徒权威，所以他被授予罗马第一任主教的荣誉称号，这意味着每一任罗马主教都是彼得在那个职位上的继承人。
- start: 2021.386
  end: 2030.754
  speaker: unknown
  en: So imagine  If there's a dispute over the interpretation of a particular passage of scripture or over a certain doctrine.
  zh: 所以想象一下，如果对某段经文的解释或某个教义存在争议。
- start: 2030.754
  end: 2034.195
  speaker: unknown
  en: If two Christians disagree, they go to their bishops.
  zh: 如果两个基督徒意见不一致，他们就去找他们的主教。
- start: 2034.855
  end: 2037.696
  speaker: unknown
  en: If two bishops disagree, then what do you do?
  zh: 如果两个主教意见不一致，那你该怎么办？
- start: 2037.696
  end: 2044.818
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, if two bishops disagree, then each bishop is going to pull out the succession list.
  zh: 嗯，如果两个主教意见不一致，那么每个主教都会拿出继承名单。
- start: 2044.818
  end: 2054.164
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, you know, I was consecrated, or I learned from the previous bishop who learned from the previous bishop,  Going all the way back to this apostle.
  zh: 嗯，你知道，我被祝圣，或者我从前任主教那里学习，前任主教又从再前任主教那里学习，一直追溯到这位使徒。
- start: 2054.164
  end: 2059.047
  speaker: unknown
  en: And the other bishop's going to say, well, I learned from, you know, going back to this apostle.
  zh: 另一位主教会说，嗯，我从，你知道，追溯到这位使徒那里学习。
- start: 2059.167
  end: 2072.636
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in many cases, if both churches, you know, maybe only one church could claim succession back to an apostle and the other one could not, well, if you could claim succession back to an apostle, you sort of win.
  zh: 在许多情况下，如果两个教会，你知道，也许只有一个教会能声称继承可以追溯到使徒，而另一个不能，那么，如果你能声称继承可以追溯到使徒，你就算是赢了。
- start: 2072.636
  end: 2077.179
  speaker: unknown
  en: You know, I mean, that trumps, an apostle trumps no apostle, right?
  zh: 你知道，我的意思是，那胜过了，有使徒胜过没有使徒，对吧？
- start: 2077.34
  end: 2085.407
  speaker: unknown
  en: But, if both churches could claim succession going back to an apostle,  Then what do you do?
  zh: 但是，如果两个教会都能声称继承可以追溯到使徒，那你该怎么办？
- start: 2085.407
  end: 2094.053
  speaker: unknown
  en: And we're going to talk about this throughout the course of this class because the authority of the Bishop of Rome evolves.
  zh: 我们将在整个课程中讨论这个问题，因为罗马主教的权威在不断演变。
- start: 2094.134
  end: 2097.015
  speaker: unknown
  en: We're going to talk about that evolution over time.
  zh: 我们将讨论这种随时间推移的演变。
- start: 2097.456
  end: 2099.718
  speaker: unknown
  en: But you know where it ends up.
  zh: 但你知道它最终会变成什么。
- start: 2099.718
  end: 2102.42
  speaker: unknown
  en: It ends up with the papacy.
  zh: 它最终演变成教宗制度。
- start: 2102.42
  end: 2105.422
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Pope is the Bishop of Rome.
  zh: 教宗就是罗马的主教。
- start: 2105.883
  end: 2107.824
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Bishop of Rome is the Pope.
  zh: 罗马的主教就是教宗。
- start: 2108.224
  end: 2110.145
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so that office evolves.
  zh: 所以这个职位在不断演变。
- start: 2111.676
  end: 2119.658
  speaker: unknown
  en: And you will see over the course of this class how that evolves, and how the authority of the bishop of Rome increases.
  zh: 在这门课程中，你将看到它是如何演变的，以及罗马主教的权威是如何增加的。
- start: 2120.478
  end: 2141.364
  speaker: unknown
  en: But even from the very beginning, when it comes to the apostles, Peter trumps all the other apostles, because he is the one to whom Jesus said, you know, you are the rock, and on this rock I'm going to build my church.
  zh: 但从一开始，在谈到使徒时，彼得就胜过所有其他使徒，因为他是耶稣对其说「你是磐石，我要把我的教会建造在这磐石上」的那一位。
- start: 2141.496
  end: 2150.861
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, granted, you can interpret that passage to understand it in such a way that Jesus is not talking to Peter alone, that he's talking to all the apostles.
  zh: 当然，你可以这样解释那段经文：耶稣不是单单对彼得说话，而是对所有使徒说话。
- start: 2150.861
  end: 2158.224
  speaker: unknown
  en: Or you can interpret that passage to say that the rock he's talking about is Peter's confession to faith, as opposed to Peter himself.
  zh: 或者你可以解释说，他所说的磐石是指彼得对信仰的告白，而不是彼得本人。
- start: 2158.224
  end: 2159.725
  speaker: unknown
  en: And that's all well and good.
  zh: 这些解释都很好。
- start: 2159.81
  end: 2164.331
  speaker: unknown
  en: But again, then Jesus goes on to give Peter the authority of the keys.
  zh: 但是，耶稣接着又给了彼得钥匙的权柄。
- start: 2164.331
  end: 2167.212
  speaker: unknown
  en: What you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.
  zh: 「凡你在地上所捆绑的，在天上也要捆绑。」
- start: 2167.212
  end: 2169.712
  speaker: unknown
  en: What you release on earth will be released in heaven.
  zh: 「凡你在地上所释放的，在天上也要释放。」
- start: 2169.712
  end: 2175.254
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is understood as the authority to forgive sins or not forgive sins.
  zh: 这被理解为赦罪或不赦罪的权柄。
- start: 2175.614
  end: 2176.334
  speaker: unknown
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 2176.734
  end: 2181.595
  speaker: unknown
  en: And again, this can be understood as an authority given to all the apostles.
  zh: 再次强调，这也可以被理解为给予所有使徒的权柄。
- start: 2181.595
  end: 2199.492
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the point is that from the beginning of the church's history, Peter was understood to be Jesus' right hand man,  and the one to whom he gave this authority, and the one to whom he gave the authority to look after the other apostles when Jesus himself would be gone.
  zh: 但重点是，从教会历史的开始，彼得就被理解为耶稣的得力助手，是耶稣赐予这种权柄的人，也是耶稣赐予权柄在他离开后照看其他使徒的人。
- start: 2199.512
  end: 2200.633
  speaker: unknown
  en: Peter, do you love me?
  zh: 「彼得，你爱我吗？」
- start: 2200.633
  end: 2202.133
  speaker: unknown
  en: Then feed my sheep.
  zh: 「你喂养我的羊。」
- start: 2202.253
  end: 2208.915
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, in other words, the point is that Peter is seen as sort of the head apostle.
  zh: 换句话说，重点是彼得被视为某种首席使徒。
- start: 2208.915
  end: 2209.955
  speaker: unknown
  en: I saw a hand in the back.
  zh: 我看到后面有人举手。
- start: 2209.955
  end: 2210.296
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, go ahead.
  zh: 是的，请说。
- start: 2210.296
  end: 2211.516
  speaker: unknown
  en: Quick question.
  zh: 一个简短的问题。
- start: 2211.516
  end: 2218.223
  speaker: unknown
  en: In the event that two bishops can both trace apostolic succession back to Peter, what would happen?
  zh: 如果两位主教都能追溯使徒继承到彼得，会发生什么？
- start: 2218.223
  end: 2224.928
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, and that is the case in some cases, and so the dispute would go on.
  zh: 嗯，在某些情况下确实如此，所以争议会继续。
- start: 2224.928
  end: 2232.954
  speaker: unknown
  en: Eventually, we're going to have to resort to councils to sort out some of these questions.
  zh: 最终，我们将不得不求助于大公会议来解决其中一些问题。
- start: 2233.114
  end: 2257.329
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, the two, I believe Antioch also traces its succession back to Peter, but because Rome and Antioch are far enough apart,  There's a bit of a rivalry there, we'll get into that more, but for the most part, Antioch also has another rival in Alexandria, and their powers sort of cancel each other out.
  zh: 所以，这两个，我相信安提阿也追溯其继承到彼得，但因为罗马和安提阿相距足够远，那里有一些竞争，我们稍后会详细讨论，但在大多数情况下，安提阿在亚历山大还有另一个对手，他们的力量某种程度上相互抵消。
- start: 2257.329
  end: 2267.472
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, because there are more metropolitan cities in the east, that sort of adds to the authority of Rome in the west.
  zh: 所以，因为东方有更多的大都市，这在某种程度上增加了罗马在西方的权威。
- start: 2269.433
  end: 2276.903
  speaker: unknown
  en: We'll talk more about this,  But there's a lot of factors that feed into the increasing authority of the bishop of Rome.
  zh: 我们稍后会详细讨论这个，但有很多因素促成了罗马主教权威的增加。
- start: 2278.565
  end: 2299.217
  speaker: unknown
  en: Alright, so you get the idea then that this apostolic succession is the way that the early Christians would sort of test theology or would know how to trust what was being taught even before the church had a New Testament.
  zh: 好的，所以你就明白了，这种使徒继承是早期基督徒检验神学或知道如何信任所教导的内容的方式，即使在教会有新约之前。
- start: 2303.633
  end: 2313.298
  speaker: unknown
  en: But also, you can probably see that this apostolic succession requires a certain institutionalization of the church.
  zh: 但是，你可能也看到，这种使徒继承需要教会有一定程度的制度化。
- start: 2313.778
  end: 2341.045
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, to say that some teaching is approved and other teaching is not, you sort of have to separate out who are the approved teachers and who are the teachers who are not approved,  And therefore, from the beginning, there is a connection, an interdependence, between authority and unity.
  zh: 换句话说，要说某些教导是被认可的而其他教导不是，你必须区分出谁是被认可的教师，谁是不被认可的教师，因此，从一开始，权威和统一之间就存在联系，一种相互依存。
- start: 2342.326
  end: 2348.229
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, some of us are taught to believe that authority and hierarchy are automatically bad.
  zh: 现在，我们中的一些人被教导认为权威和等级制度自动就是坏的。
- start: 2349.33
  end: 2356.275
  speaker: unknown
  en: But what you have to understand is that without authority and hierarchy, there is no unity.
  zh: 但你必须明白，没有权威和等级制度，就没有统一。
- start: 2356.895
  end: 2358.976
  speaker: unknown
  en: Without authority, there is no unity.
  zh: 没有权威，就没有统一。
- start: 2360.04
  end: 2367.646
  speaker: unknown
  en: This works not only within the church, but when we start talking about the Trinity, it works within the Trinity too.
  zh: 这不仅适用于教会内部，当我们开始讨论三位一体时，它在三位一体内部也是如此。
- start: 2367.646
  end: 2370.027
  speaker: unknown
  en: Without hierarchy, there's no unity.
  zh: 没有等级制度，就没有统一。
- start: 2370.448
  end: 2373.27
  speaker: unknown
  en: I know you don't, you know, put that, tuck that in the back of your mind.
  zh: 我知道你不会，你知道，把这个记在心里。
- start: 2373.27
  end: 2375.491
  speaker: unknown
  en: It doesn't make sense yet, but it will.
  zh: 现在可能还不理解，但以后会明白的。
- start: 2376.132
  end: 2387.88
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, anyway, two things happen then by the end of the first century to move along the evolution of the church's hierarchy.
  zh: 总之，到第一世纪末，发生了两件事推动了教会等级制度的演变。
- start: 2388.422
  end: 2389.282
  speaker: unknown
  en: Two things happened.
  zh: 发生了两件事。
- start: 2389.282
  end: 2392.744
  speaker: unknown
  en: The first thing that happened is the apostles all died off.
  zh: 第一件事是所有使徒都去世了。
- start: 2394.185
  end: 2396.646
  speaker: unknown
  en: The last one seems to have been John.
  zh: 最后一位似乎是约翰。
- start: 2396.666
  end: 2403.21
  speaker: unknown
  en: But again, right around the end of the first century, the church loses him as well.
  zh: 但是，在第一世纪末，教会也失去了他。
- start: 2403.21
  end: 2409.433
  speaker: unknown
  en: So eventually, by the second century, all the apostles are gone.
  zh: 所以最终，到了第二世纪，所有的使徒都不在了。
- start: 2410.394
  end: 2414.055
  speaker: unknown
  en: The other thing that happened is that the church rose.
  zh: 另一件发生的事是教会兴起了。
- start: 2414.456
  end: 2420.303
  speaker: unknown
  en: So that now, in most cities,  You will have multiple house churches within a city.
  zh: 所以现在，在大多数城市，你会在一个城市里有多个家庭教会。
- start: 2420.503
  end: 2430.285
  speaker: unknown
  en: Either all the Christians can't fit in one house, or you have house churches divided by region, by language, or by social status.
  zh: 要么是所有的基督徒无法容纳在一个房子里，要么是家庭教会按地区、语言或社会地位划分。
- start: 2431.306
  end: 2436.207
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so in a lot of the cities you have multiple house churches.
  zh: 所以在很多城市里你有多个家庭教会。
- start: 2437.167
  end: 2443.309
  speaker: unknown
  en: Where there are multiple house churches, the leaders, the pastors of the individual house churches have to meet.
  zh: 在有多个家庭教会的地方，各个家庭教会的领袖、牧师必须见面。
- start: 2444.033
  end: 2445.574
  speaker: unknown
  en: And then you have a council.
  zh: 然后你就有了一个委员会。
- start: 2445.574
  end: 2450.496
  speaker: unknown
  en: Where you have a council, you have to have a chair of the council.
  zh: 有了委员会，你就必须有一个委员会主席。
- start: 2450.496
  end: 2456.578
  speaker: unknown
  en: And eventually, as I said earlier, this evolves into the office of bishop.
  zh: 最终，正如我之前所说，这演变成了主教的职位。
- start: 2456.638
  end: 2473.025
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so by the time we get into the second century, and really already at the end of the first century we see this in Rome with Clement, the office of bishop is evolving to the point where the bishop is an overseer.
  zh: 所以到了第二世纪，实际上在第一世纪末我们在罗马的克莱门特那里就看到了这一点，主教的职位正在演变到主教成为一个监督者的地步。
- start: 2473.439
  end: 2479.941
  speaker: unknown
  en: who has authority over the teaching of the church and over the sacraments of the church.
  zh: 他对教会的教导和教会的圣事有权威。
- start: 2481.681
  end: 2491.344
  speaker: unknown
  en: You're going to see this when you read the letters of Ignatius too, because Ignatius is going to argue for the limitation of one bishop per city.
  zh: 当你读伊格内修斯的书信时，你也会看到这一点，因为伊格内修斯将主张每个城市限制一位主教。
- start: 2491.784
  end: 2503.667
  speaker: unknown
  en: So instead of having multiple overseers in different parts of the city or multiple schools of thought going on, Ignatius instinctively knew that that would lead to schism, that would lead to division.
  zh: 所以，不是在城市的不同地方有多个监督者或有多个思想流派，伊格内修斯本能地知道那会导致分裂，会导致分化。
- start: 2505.051
  end: 2510.234
  speaker: unknown
  en: If you have two bishops in one city, what's going to happen if they disagree?
  zh: 如果一个城市有两位主教，如果他们意见不一致会发生什么？
- start: 2510.234
  end: 2516.997
  speaker: unknown
  en: If they have a disagreement, that automatically forces every Christian in that city to choose between them.
  zh: 如果他们有分歧，那会自动迫使那个城市的每个基督徒在他们之间做出选择。
- start: 2518.018
  end: 2520.979
  speaker: unknown
  en: And now you don't have one church anymore, you have two churches.
  zh: 现在你不再有一个教会了，你有两个教会。
- start: 2521.26
  end: 2531.045
  speaker: unknown
  en: Not only that, if you're excommunicated by Bishop A, and there's another bishop in town, you just go over to that bishop and get your communion over there.
  zh: 不仅如此，如果你被主教A逐出教会，而城里还有另一位主教，你只需去那位主教那里领圣餐。
- start: 2531.408
  end: 2536.27
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so excommunication loses its power as a method of discipline.
  zh: 因此，逐出教会作为一种惩戒方法失去了它的力量。
- start: 2537.431
  end: 2543.615
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the bishops have to support each other and they have to stay out of each other's way.
  zh: 所以主教们必须互相支持，必须不干涉对方的事务。
- start: 2543.615
  end: 2548.237
  speaker: unknown
  en: Ignatius argues for the limitation of only one bishop per city.
  zh: 伊格内修斯主张每个城市只限一位主教。
- start: 2548.958
  end: 2550.518
  speaker: unknown
  en: So we see this shift.
  zh: 所以我们看到了这种转变。
- start: 2551.239
  end: 2561.284
  speaker: unknown
  en: On some level there's a shift from the office as going from the secretary of the council to the chair of the council.
  zh: 在某种程度上，这个职位从委员会的秘书转变为委员会的主席。
- start: 2562.537
  end: 2571.604
  speaker: unknown
  en: from the council directs someone to speak for them to this person now has authority over the council.
  zh: 从委员会指示某人为他们发言，到这个人现在对委员会有权威。
- start: 2573.246
  end: 2578.449
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so we have a shift in the hierarchy of the church.
  zh: 因此，我们看到教会等级制度发生了转变。
- start: 2584.715
  end: 2591.38
  speaker: unknown
  en: At the time of the Didache, we had three levels of clergy.
  zh: 在《十二使徒遗训》的时代，我们有三个级别的神职人员。
- start: 2591.56
  end: 2600.853
  speaker: unknown
  en: We had  Apostle, who was also called prophet, but this person was itinerant.
  zh: 我们有使徒，也被称为先知，但这个人是巡回传教的。
- start: 2601.774
  end: 2609.959
  speaker: unknown
  en: We had local pastors who could be called bishops or priests.
  zh: 我们有可以被称为主教或神父的当地牧师。
- start: 2611.621
  end: 2616.004
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Greek word for bishop is episkopos, where we get our word episcopal.
  zh: 主教的希腊词是episkopos，我们的episcopal一词就来源于此。
- start: 2616.365
  end: 2617.926
  speaker: unknown
  en: It means overseer.
  zh: 它的意思是监督者。
- start: 2617.926
  end: 2620.227
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Greek word for priest is presbyter.
  zh: 神父的希腊词是presbyter。
- start: 2622.048
  end: 2630.532
  speaker: unknown
  en: Most tend to translate that as elder, although the term elder can mean other things too, so I kind of avoid that, but that's what that is.
  zh: 大多数人倾向于将其翻译为长老，尽管长老这个词也可能有其他含义，所以我有点避免使用它，但那就是它的意思。
- start: 2630.712
  end: 2632.733
  speaker: unknown
  en: And then you have deacon, right?
  zh: 然后你还有执事，对吧？
- start: 2633.354
  end: 2638.996
  speaker: unknown
  en: So those are your levels of church authority.
  zh: 所以这些就是你的教会权威级别。
- start: 2639.877
  end: 2651.402
  speaker: unknown
  en: By the time we get to the end of the first century and into the second century, these two titles split out and become two different levels.
  zh: 到了第一世纪末和第二世纪初，这两个头衔分开，成为两个不同的级别。
- start: 2652.315
  end: 2657.878
  speaker: unknown
  en: With the Apostles gone, the title Bishop fills in that void.
  zh: 随着使徒的离去，主教的头衔填补了那个空缺。
- start: 2657.878
  end: 2663.48
  speaker: unknown
  en: So now the bishops are truly overseers over cities or areas.
  zh: 所以现在主教真正成为城市或地区的监督者。
- start: 2664.561
  end: 2666.682
  speaker: unknown
  en: They're not necessarily itinerant.
  zh: 他们不一定是巡回传教的。
- start: 2667.643
  end: 2673.806
  speaker: unknown
  en: They may in fact be local pastors, but they have authority over the others.
  zh: 事实上，他们可能是当地的牧师，但他们对其他人有权威。
- start: 2673.806
  end: 2680.809
  speaker: unknown
  en: And then you have the priests, who are the presbyters or the local pastors.
  zh: 然后你有神父，他们是长老或当地的牧师。
- start: 2681.029
  end: 2686.948
  speaker: unknown
  en: Remember,  A bishop is also a presider, or an elder.
  zh: 记住，主教也是一个主持人，或者说是长老。
- start: 2687.169
  end: 2696.316
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, if one goes from the level of priest and then becomes consecrated as bishop, one does not cease being a priest.
  zh: 所以，如果一个人从神父的级别被祝圣为主教，他并不会停止成为神父。
- start: 2696.736
  end: 2697.317
  speaker: unknown
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 2697.317
  end: 2699.498
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, bishops are always priests.
  zh: 所以，主教总是神父。
- start: 2700.159
  end: 2702.0
  speaker: unknown
  en: And then, of course, you still have the deacons.
  zh: 当然，你还有执事。
- start: 2703.121
  end: 2708.946
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, you know, all that is to say that, you know, this kind of thing happens when these guys go away.
  zh: 所以，你知道，所有这些都是为了说明，你知道，当这些人离开时，这种事情就会发生。
- start: 2709.166
  end: 2709.326
  speaker: unknown
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 2709.326
  end: 2710.527
  speaker: unknown
  en: Does that make sense?
  zh: 这说得通吗？
- start: 2713.348
  end: 2715.869
  speaker: unknown
  en: Okay, any questions so far?
  zh: 好的，到目前为止有什么问题吗？
- start: 2715.869
  end: 2719.231
  speaker: unknown
  en: What was the role of a deacon?
  zh: 执事的角色是什么？
- start: 2719.612
  end: 2721.773
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, that's a good question.
  zh: 嗯，这是个好问题。
- start: 2722.093
  end: 2737.201
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's not only uniform, because at the beginning, depending on time and place, the bishops, as I said, have the authority over the teaching of the church and over the sacraments.
  zh: 它并不是统一的，因为在开始时，根据时间和地点的不同，正如我所说，主教对教会的教导和圣事有权威。
- start: 2737.222
  end: 2756.716
  speaker: unknown
  en: So often,  weekly worship or Sunday morning worship might have been held and led by a presider or an elder or a presider, but then the Eucharist was only presided over by the bishops.
  zh: 所以通常，每周的崇拜或周日早晨的崇拜可能由一个主持人或长老或主持人举行和领导，但圣餐只由主教主持。
- start: 2756.716
  end: 2763.238
  speaker: unknown
  en: So in some cases, only the bishops were presiding over the sacrament of the Eucharist.
  zh: 所以在某些情况下，只有主教主持圣餐礼。
- start: 2763.238
  end: 2783.447
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other cases, that authority was given to  All that is to say that the deacon's role was originally a role of assisting in the sacraments.
  zh: 在其他情况下，这种权力被赋予...总之，执事的角色最初是协助圣事的角色。
- start: 2783.447
  end: 2788.428
  speaker: unknown
  en: Depending on who was doing the sacraments, the deacons were assisting those people.
  zh: 根据谁在执行圣事，执事就协助那些人。
- start: 2788.428
  end: 2797.531
  speaker: unknown
  en: You might find the deacons assisting priests in the sacraments, but you also might find the deacons as the assistants to the bishops.
  zh: 你可能会发现执事在圣事中协助神父，但你也可能会发现执事是主教的助手。
- start: 2799.693
  end: 2806.338
  speaker: unknown
  en: It almost seems weird when you read it like you'd be reading about a bishop and the bishop's assistant is a deacon.
  zh: 当你读到这些时，可能会觉得有点奇怪，好像你在读关于一个主教的事，而主教的助手是一个执事。
- start: 2806.338
  end: 2809.941
  speaker: unknown
  en: You'd think hierarchically, wait a minute, why shouldn't the priest be in there somewhere?
  zh: 从等级上来说，你会想，等一下，为什么神父不应该在那里的某个位置？
- start: 2809.941
  end: 2811.963
  speaker: unknown
  en: But it doesn't always work that way.
  zh: 但它并不总是那样运作的。
- start: 2813.304
  end: 2817.488
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the deacons were meant to assist primarily with the sacraments.
  zh: 所以执事主要是为了协助圣事。
- start: 2817.488
  end: 2822.812
  speaker: unknown
  en: There were also deaconesses who assisted with baptism.
  zh: 还有女执事协助洗礼。
- start: 2822.892
  end: 2838.771
  speaker: unknown
  en: In the case of the baptism of women, when baptism was done naked,  A male bishop would be on the other side of a curtain, and a female deacon or deaconess would assist the person going through the immersion in the baptism.
  zh: 在为女性施洗的情况下，当洗礼是赤身进行的时候，男性主教会在帘子的另一边，而女执事会协助受洗者进行浸礼。
- start: 2839.972
  end: 2840.893
  speaker: unknown
  en: So there's that.
  zh: 所以就是这样。
- start: 2840.893
  end: 2848.276
  speaker: unknown
  en: The deacons then also assist the bishops with things like the distribution of money.
  zh: 然后执事还协助主教处理诸如分发金钱之类的事情。
- start: 2848.276
  end: 2855.59
  speaker: unknown
  en: So if people give their offering and that money is meant to go to the poor,  The bishops will say, okay, well, we know who the poor people are.
  zh: 所以如果人们奉献，而那些钱是要给穷人的，主教会说，好的，我们知道谁是穷人。
- start: 2855.59
  end: 2856.951
  speaker: unknown
  en: They'll give the money to the deacons.
  zh: 他们会把钱给执事。
- start: 2856.951
  end: 2857.991
  speaker: unknown
  en: Here's your list of people.
  zh: 这是你的人员名单。
- start: 2857.991
  end: 2860.653
  speaker: unknown
  en: Go and distribute the money to these people, or whatever.
  zh: 去把钱分发给这些人，或者做其他事情。
- start: 2861.714
  end: 2868.577
  speaker: unknown
  en: And they might also distribute sacramental elements to people who could not be there for the sacrament as well.
  zh: 他们也可能会把圣事的元素分发给那些无法亲自参加圣事的人。
- start: 2869.058
  end: 2870.639
  speaker: unknown
  en: So that's kind of what they did.
  zh: 所以这就是他们所做的事。
- start: 2870.639
  end: 2873.54
  speaker: unknown
  en: Question here?
  zh: 这里有问题吗？
- start: 2873.54
  end: 2875.841
  speaker: unknown
  en: You mentioned an itinerant.
  zh: 你提到了巡回传教士。
- start: 2875.982
  end: 2877.362
  speaker: unknown
  en: What does that word mean?
  zh: 那个词是什么意思？
- start: 2877.363
  end: 2878.443
  speaker: unknown
  en: What was the word?
  zh: 那个词是什么？
- start: 2878.723
  end: 2879.784
  speaker: unknown
  en: Itinerant.
  zh: 巡回传教士。
- start: 2879.784
  end: 2881.265
  speaker: unknown
  en: Oh, itinerant.
  zh: 哦，巡回传教士。
- start: 2881.718
  end: 2884.479
  speaker: unknown
  en: United Methodists know what itinerant means.
  zh: 联合卫理公会的人知道巡回传教士是什么意思。
- start: 2884.479
  end: 2886.32
  speaker: unknown
  en: Itinerant means you move around.
  zh: 巡回传教士意味着你四处移动。
- start: 2886.58
  end: 2890.121
  speaker: unknown
  en: So if you think about the Apostle Paul moving around a lot, that's itinerant.
  zh: 所以如果你想到使徒保罗经常四处移动，那就是巡回传教。
- start: 2890.121
  end: 2891.562
  speaker: unknown
  en: He didn't stay in one place.
  zh: 他不会停留在一个地方。
- start: 2891.562
  end: 2892.842
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, good question.
  zh: 是的，好问题。
- start: 2893.343
  end: 2894.283
  speaker: unknown
  en: Anything else?
  zh: 还有什么问题吗？
- start: 2896.844
  end: 2903.927
  speaker: unknown
  en: Alright then, for the last ten minutes or so, I want to give you a little bit of an intro to Ignatius of Antioch.
  zh: 好的，在最后大约十分钟里，我想给你们简单介绍一下安提阿的伊格内修斯。
- start: 2906.848
  end: 2908.909
  speaker: unknown
  en: You are going to read his letters.
  zh: 你们将要读他的书信。
- start: 2912.037
  end: 2913.478
  speaker: unknown
  en: Ignatius of Antioch.
  zh: 安提阿的伊格内修斯。
- start: 2913.478
  end: 2927.046
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, Antioch is one of the larger cities in the east, in Syria.
  zh: 安提阿是东方叙利亚的一个较大城市。
- start: 2927.046
  end: 2930.829
  speaker: unknown
  en: You can look on the map to see where it is exactly.
  zh: 你可以在地图上看看它的确切位置。
- start: 2930.829
  end: 2942.308
  speaker: unknown
  en: But Ignatius of Antioch was the bishop and was arrested and sentenced to death, to execution,  For his faith as part of the persecutions that were going on.
  zh: 但安提阿的伊格内修斯是主教，他因信仰被逮捕并被判处死刑，这是当时正在进行的迫害的一部分。
- start: 2943.77
  end: 2948.233
  speaker: unknown
  en: But he was sent back to Rome for his execution.
  zh: 但他被送回罗马执行死刑。
- start: 2948.233
  end: 2961.481
  speaker: unknown
  en: So in about the year 110 or so, he is on his way, being taken as a prisoner from Antioch in the east to Rome to face his execution.
  zh: 所以在大约110年左右，他正在路上，作为囚犯从东方的安提阿被押送到罗马面对处决。
- start: 2964.503
  end: 2967.525
  speaker: unknown
  en: And it's on the way that he writes these letters.
  zh: 正是在这个过程中，他写了这些信。
- start: 2967.708
  end: 2995.22
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, he was martyred about 110. He was probably born somewhere around the year 50, somewhere around the year 50, and martyred around the year 110. Like Clement of Rome, Ignatius is also said to have known one or more of the apostles personally.
  zh: 所以，他大约在110年殉道。他可能出生在50年左右，在110年左右殉道。像罗马的克莱门特一样，据说伊格内修斯也亲自认识一个或多个使徒。
- start: 2996.963
  end: 3008.013
  speaker: unknown
  en: According to tradition, he may have been a disciple of the Apostle John, along with another early church writer known as Colleen Carter.
  zh: 根据传统，他可能是使徒约翰的门徒，还有另一位被称为科琳·卡特的早期教会作家也是。
- start: 3010.636
  end: 3019.364
  speaker: unknown
  en: So what we're seeing here are, again, the second generation of church leaders after the Apostles.
  zh: 所以我们在这里看到的是，再次强调，使徒之后的第二代教会领袖。
- start: 3019.445
  end: 3020.966
  speaker: unknown
  en: Question, go ahead.
  zh: 有问题，请说。
- start: 3021.426
  end: 3031.91
  speaker: unknown
  en: If Peter was said to have started the church in Antioch, why would Ignatius be relieved and learn from John?
  zh: 如果据说彼得在安提阿建立了教会，为什么伊格内修斯会从约翰那里得到解脱和学习？
- start: 3032.15
  end: 3037.272
  speaker: unknown
  en: Oh, well, simply because he knew John and was a disciple of John.
  zh: 哦，仅仅是因为他认识约翰并且是约翰的门徒。
- start: 3037.413
  end: 3045.756
  speaker: unknown
  en: But, to your point, in the apostolic succession, he would trace his succession back to Peter.
  zh: 但是，就你的观点而言，在使徒继承中，他会追溯他的继承到彼得。
- start: 3046.276
  end: 3054.269
  speaker: unknown
  en: So he would have, you know, he, now I can't remember off the top of my head  How many bishops there were supposedly before him.
  zh: 所以他会有，你知道，他，现在我一时想不起来在他之前据说有多少主教。
- start: 3054.269
  end: 3059.651
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the idea is that, you know, maybe only two or something.
  zh: 但想法是，你知道，可能只有两个或者类似的数量。
- start: 3059.651
  end: 3066.774
  speaker: unknown
  en: The point is that he would have learned both from John the Apostle and from the previous bishop in Antioch.
  zh: 重点是他既从使徒约翰那里学习，也从安提阿的前任主教那里学习。
- start: 3066.774
  end: 3068.875
  speaker: unknown
  en: Who would have learned?
  zh: 谁会学习？
- start: 3068.875
  end: 3070.575
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, right, exactly, exactly.
  zh: 是的，没错，就是这样，就是这样。
- start: 3070.575
  end: 3086.886
  speaker: unknown
  en: And, you know, we're going to see, I don't know if I'll remember to mention it or not, but when you get to the Council of Nicaea in the fourth century,  One of the canons or rules that the Council of Nicaea will make is that bishops are not to translate.
  zh: 你知道，我们将会看到，我不知道我是否会记得提到，但当你到了四世纪的尼西亚大公会议时，尼西亚大公会议制定的一条规则是主教不应该转移。
- start: 3086.886
  end: 3088.547
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now that doesn't mean anything about language.
  zh: 这与语言无关。
- start: 3088.547
  end: 3091.969
  speaker: unknown
  en: It means they're not to move from one city to another.
  zh: 这意味着他们不应该从一个城市移动到另一个城市。
- start: 3092.409
  end: 3101.415
  speaker: unknown
  en: So they're trying to enforce the idea that if you're going to be bishop, you're going to be a bishop in the city you grew up in because that's how you preserve that apostolic succession.
  zh: 所以他们试图强调这样一个观点：如果你要成为主教，你应该在你成长的城市成为主教，因为这是保持使徒继承的方式。
- start: 3101.415
  end: 3103.296
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's how you preserve the teaching.
  zh: 这就是你保持教导的方式。
- start: 3103.336
  end: 3110.249
  speaker: unknown
  en: You theoretically should be a bishop in the same city where you learned  Theology from a previous bishop.
  zh: 理论上，你应该在你从前任主教那里学习神学的同一个城市成为主教。
- start: 3110.71
  end: 3116.431
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, again, 10 minutes after the council, somebody's going to break that rule, but at least that was the idea, you know?
  zh: 现在，再次强调，大公会议结束10分钟后，就会有人打破这个规则，但至少这是最初的想法，你知道吗？
- start: 3116.431
  end: 3116.991
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yes?
  zh: 是的？
- start: 3116.991
  end: 3121.753
  speaker: unknown
  en: Was only a bishop having bishops to die, or was there another day?
  zh: 是只有主教让主教去死，还是有其他的日子？
- start: 3121.753
  end: 3124.853
  speaker: unknown
  en: Usually, bishops is an office held for life.
  zh: 通常，主教是终身职位。
- start: 3125.314
  end: 3129.235
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, again, back in the early days, when it was just, Bob, will you take a minute?
  zh: 现在，再次强调，在早期，当它只是，鲍勃，你能花点时间吗？
- start: 3129.235
  end: 3130.155
  speaker: unknown
  en: Who knows?
  zh: 谁知道呢？
- start: 3130.253
  end: 3158.243
  speaker: unknown
  en: But once it becomes a true office of the church, certainly by the second century already, bishop is an office held for life, and the only way you would become not bishop anymore is if you die, or if you're, like in the case of Clement, he was exiled, so he couldn't fulfill that role anymore, so he was replaced  There will be cases where a bishop is charged with heresy and removed from the office.
  zh: 但一旦它成为教会的真正职位，肯定到了第二世纪，主教就是终身职位，你不再是主教的唯一方式是你死了，或者像克莱门特的情况，他被流放，所以他不能再履行那个角色，所以他被替换了。也会有主教被指控为异端并被免职的情况。
- start: 3158.243
  end: 3170.189
  speaker: unknown
  en: Ignatius was arrested during a time of persecution.
  zh: 伊格内修斯在迫害时期被逮捕。
- start: 3170.189
  end: 3174.791
  speaker: unknown
  en: He's on his way to Rome as a prisoner to be executed.
  zh: 他作为囚犯正在前往罗马被处决的路上。
- start: 3176.513
  end: 3194.284
  speaker: unknown
  en: He briefly stayed with his friend Polycarp,  In the city of Smyrna, and was able to, very much like Paul, you know, sort of under a kind of loose house arrest where he's able to meet with Christians.
  zh: 他在士每拿城短暂地和他的朋友坡旅甲待在一起，并且能够，很像保罗，你知道，在一种松散的软禁状态下，他能够与基督徒会面。
- start: 3196.805
  end: 3205.848
  speaker: unknown
  en: And then as he travels on toward Rome, he writes these letters to people he met along the way or to churches.
  zh: 然后在他继续前往罗马的途中，他给沿途遇到的人或教会写了这些信。
- start: 3206.829
  end: 3209.45
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so you're going to read some of these letters.
  zh: 所以你们将要读一些这样的信。
- start: 3209.844
  end: 3213.326
  speaker: unknown
  en: He also writes on ahead to the Christians in Rome.
  zh: 他还提前给罗马的基督徒写信。
- start: 3213.326
  end: 3216.788
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's very interesting, his letter to the Romans, because he hasn't been there yet.
  zh: 他给罗马人的信很有趣，因为他还没有到那里。
- start: 3216.908
  end: 3235.8
  speaker: unknown
  en: But one of the things he says is that he's on his way to be martyred, but he knows that the Christians of Rome apparently have enough influence to either rescue him or get him acquitted.
  zh: 但他说的一件事是，他正在前往殉道的路上，但他知道罗马的基督徒显然有足够的影响力要么救他，要么让他无罪释放。
- start: 3236.44
  end: 3238.141
  speaker: unknown
  en: But he says, don't do that.
  zh: 但他说，不要那样做。
- start: 3238.342
  end: 3240.501
  speaker: unknown
  en: He says,  Leave it alone.
  zh: 他说，别管它。
- start: 3240.501
  end: 3242.662
  speaker: unknown
  en: This has to happen.
  zh: 这必须发生。
- start: 3243.402
  end: 3253.305
  speaker: unknown
  en: And one of the reasons I think he does that is because he has been arrested and sentenced to death for his faith.
  zh: 我认为他这样做的原因之一是因为他因信仰被逮捕并被判处死刑。
- start: 3253.845
  end: 3263.447
  speaker: unknown
  en: And normally, there was only one way, but a very easy way, to get out from under that condemnation in the Roman Empire.
  zh: 通常，在罗马帝国只有一种方法，但是一种很简单的方法，可以摆脱这种谴责。
- start: 3263.447
  end: 3268.429
  speaker: unknown
  en: If you're condemned to death for your faith, all you have to do is renounce the faith.
  zh: 如果你因信仰被判处死刑，你所要做的就是放弃信仰。
- start: 3268.649
  end: 3269.749
  speaker: unknown
  en: Very easy.
  zh: 非常简单。
- start: 3270.06
  end: 3278.607
  speaker: unknown
  en: The problem is, if Ignatius shows up alive later, goes home and doesn't get executed, that's exactly what people will think he did.
  zh: 问题是，如果伊格内修斯后来活着出现，回家并没有被处决，人们就会认为他正是这样做了。
- start: 3278.647
  end: 3283.832
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so he can't really afford to have people think that he's renounced the faith.
  zh: 所以他真的不能让人们认为他放弃了信仰。
- start: 3283.832
  end: 3285.613
  speaker: unknown
  en: So he has to see it through.
  zh: 所以他必须坚持到底。
- start: 3285.633
  end: 3295.142
  speaker: unknown
  en: And he even says, even if it sounds like I changed my mind when I get there, don't listen to me then, listen to me now.
  zh: 他甚至说，即使我到那里时听起来好像我改变了主意，那时不要听我的，现在就听我的。
- start: 3295.142
  end: 3301.823
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's like young Frankenstein, he says,  No matter how much I scream, don't open this door.
  zh: 这就像年轻的弗兰肯斯坦，他说，无论我怎么尖叫，都不要打开这扇门。
- start: 3301.823
  end: 3303.244
  speaker: unknown
  en: So there's that.
  zh: 所以就是这样。
- start: 3303.244
  end: 3304.324
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's very interesting.
  zh: 这很有趣。
- start: 3304.324
  end: 3314.151
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's also interesting that Ignatius, like Clement, writes with a certain authority.
  zh: 同样有趣的是，伊格内修斯像克莱门特一样，带着某种权威写作。
- start: 3314.852
  end: 3320.156
  speaker: unknown
  en: But unlike Clement, it's not the authority of apostolic succession that he's claiming.
  zh: 但与克莱门特不同，他声称的不是使徒继承的权威。
- start: 3320.156
  end: 3327.721
  speaker: unknown
  en: Though he could claim apostolic succession, he is claiming a different kind of authority.
  zh: 虽然他可以声称使徒继承，但他声称的是另一种权威。
- start: 3328.049
  end: 3332.051
  speaker: unknown
  en: He's claiming the authority of a confessor.
  zh: 他声称的是认信者的权威。
- start: 3335.032
  end: 3343.376
  speaker: unknown
  en: A confessor is someone who has confessed their faith to the authorities at the risk of their own life.
  zh: 认信者是冒着生命危险向当局承认自己信仰的人。
- start: 3344.236
  end: 3357.482
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, because he's done this, and because he's been condemned to execution, he is, in fact, claiming the authority of a martyr before his martyrdom.
  zh: 因此，由于他已经这样做了，并且被判处死刑，他实际上是在殉道之前就声称拥有殉道者的权威。
- start: 3358.655
  end: 3370.205
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so on the one hand, he writes with a humble attitude, where he says, I'm only beginning to be a disciple, but my martyrdom will complete my discipleship.
  zh: 所以一方面，他以谦卑的态度写道，我只是开始成为门徒，但我的殉道将完成我的门徒身份。
- start: 3371.947
  end: 3378.372
  speaker: unknown
  en: On the other hand, he will give advice.
  zh: 另一方面，他会给出建议。
- start: 3378.973
  end: 3386.139
  speaker: unknown
  en: And strongly, when he gets to the part about there should be only one bishop per city, he's very passionate about that.
  zh: 而且，当他谈到每个城市应该只有一位主教时，他对此非常热衷。
- start: 3386.872
  end: 3397.74
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, on the one hand, in his letter to the Ephesians, he says, I am not commanding you as though I were someone important.
  zh: 所以，一方面，在他给以弗所人的信中，他说，我不是像一个重要人物那样命令你们。
- start: 3398.4
  end: 3403.664
  speaker: unknown
  en: Or, in another letter, he says, I do not think myself qualified as though I were an apostle.
  zh: 或者，在另一封信中，他说，我不认为自己有资格像使徒那样。
- start: 3404.685
  end: 3414.757
  speaker: unknown
  en: Still, on the other hand, he argues for his point of view very strongly, and with  an assumed authority that people should listen to him.
  zh: 尽管如此，另一方面，他非常强烈地为自己的观点辩护，并带有一种假定的权威，认为人们应该听他的。
- start: 3414.757
  end: 3421.401
  speaker: unknown
  en: There should be only one bishop per city, and don't listen to those Docetics, because Jesus really wasn't human.
  zh: 每个城市应该只有一位主教，不要听那些幻影说的话，因为耶稣确实不是人。
- start: 3421.521
  end: 3437.149
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in fact, it appears the Docetics were having separate meetings, and he argues that any meeting without the sanction of the bishops is not a church meeting, it's not the church.
  zh: 事实上，似乎幻影说的人在举行单独的聚会，他认为任何没有主教批准的聚会都不是教会聚会，不是教会。
- start: 3437.149
  end: 3439.49
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because again, he's all about the unity.
  zh: 因为再次强调，他完全关注的是合一。
- start: 3439.821
  end: 3443.663
  speaker: unknown
  en: So you will see this anti-Docetic argument through his letters.
  zh: 所以你会在他的信中看到这种反幻影说的论点。
- start: 3444.845
  end: 3449.147
  speaker: unknown
  en: And against the Docetic, he argues for the real humanity of Jesus.
  zh: 针对幻影说，他为耶稣的真实人性辩护。
- start: 3449.148
  end: 3466.259
  speaker: unknown
  en: And you'll see that argument too, talking about how Christ's humanity is proven by his suffering, and by the fact that his body suffered, his body was nailed to the cross, his body died, and his body was raised.
  zh: 你也会看到这个论点，谈到基督的人性是如何通过他的苦难得到证明的，以及他的身体遭受苦难，他的身体被钉在十字架上，他的身体死了，他的身体复活了这些事实。
- start: 3466.82
  end: 3476.486
  speaker: unknown
  en: So you see an argument for a real bodily resurrection,  As a part of the Christian belief in the true humanity of Jesus.
  zh: 所以你看到了一个关于真实身体复活的论点，这是基督教信仰中关于耶稣真实人性的一部分。
- start: 3479.729
  end: 3486.415
  speaker: unknown
  en: Obviously also things like he ate and drank and stuff like that are all evidence of his humanity.
  zh: 显然，像他吃喝之类的事情也都是他人性的证据。
- start: 3486.555
  end: 3495.303
  speaker: unknown
  en: So you're going to see already in Ignatius' letters the affirmation of the two natures of Christ.
  zh: 所以你已经可以在伊格内修斯的信中看到对基督两性的肯定。
- start: 3495.387
  end: 3505.729
  speaker: unknown
  en: that he is both human and divine, because while he goes on at length to argue for the real humanity of Christ against the docetics, he will also argue for the divinity of Christ.
  zh: 他既是人又是神，因为虽然他长篇大论地反对幻影说者为基督的真实人性辩护，但他也会为基督的神性辩护。
- start: 3506.249
  end: 3510.11
  speaker: unknown
  en: And he flat out calls Jesus God.
  zh: 他直截了当地称耶稣为神。
- start: 3512.371
  end: 3520.673
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, part of what's going on here is that the emperors are claiming divine titles for themselves.
  zh: 现在，这里发生的部分情况是皇帝们在为自己宣称神圣的头衔。
- start: 3520.673
  end: 3521.693
  speaker: unknown
  en: Remember that.
  zh: 记住这一点。
- start: 3522.977
  end: 3526.638
  speaker: unknown
  en: When you read the stuff about the persecutions, I kind of go through that.
  zh: 当你读到关于迫害的内容时，我会大致讲解一下。
- start: 3526.658
  end: 3539.461
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the early Roman emperors, kind of following an Egyptian trend, would be deified after their death.
  zh: 但早期的罗马皇帝，有点跟随埃及的趋势，会在死后被神化。
- start: 3539.461
  end: 3542.182
  speaker: unknown
  en: They'd be proclaimed gods by the sense.
  zh: 他们会被宣布为神。
- start: 3542.942
  end: 3557.196
  speaker: unknown
  en: But it doesn't take too long for an emperor to say, well, if I'm the son or the adopted son of the previous emperor, and he's  A god now, because he's dead, would that make me a son of a god?
  zh: 但不需要太长时间，一个皇帝就会说，好吧，如果我是前任皇帝的儿子或养子，而他现在是个神，因为他已经死了，那是不是就使我成为神的儿子？
- start: 3557.956
  end: 3575.526
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, you know, when Jesus is called the son of God, or when Jesus is called divine, this is not just a theological statement, it's a political statement too, because the Christians are saying Jesus Christ is God, not that guy on the throne in Rome, or wherever he is.
  zh: 所以，你知道，当耶稣被称为神的儿子，或者当耶稣被称为神圣时，这不仅仅是一个神学声明，也是一个政治声明，因为基督徒在说耶稣基督是神，而不是那个坐在罗马王座上的人，或者他在哪里。
- start: 3575.526
  end: 3579.788
  speaker: unknown
  en: Jesus is the son of God, not the guy who spells himself the emperor.
  zh: 耶稣是神的儿子，不是那个自称为皇帝的人。
- start: 3581.542
  end: 3585.505
  speaker: unknown
  en: And this is exactly the kind of thing that gets them in trouble and gets them executed.
  zh: 这正是让他们陷入麻烦并被处决的那种事。
- start: 3585.505
  end: 3596.734
  speaker: unknown
  en: But again, this is Ignatius arguing for both of the two natures of Christ, the humanity and the divinity.
  zh: 但再次强调，这是伊格内修斯为基督的两性，即人性和神性，辩护。
- start: 3598.616
  end: 3611.722
  speaker: unknown
  en: In fact, because the Docetics did not believe in the humanity of Christ, it appears that they were having a separate meeting with a different Eucharist, where instead of wine,  They used water.
  zh: 事实上，因为幻影说者不相信基督的人性，他们似乎在举行一个不同的圣餐聚会，在那里他们用水代替了酒。
- start: 3612.142
  end: 3620.829
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because if Jesus wasn't human, he didn't have any blood, so they didn't use wine in their Eucharist, they used water.
  zh: 因为如果耶稣不是人，他就没有血，所以他们在圣餐中不用酒，而用水。
- start: 3621.11
  end: 3625.973
  speaker: unknown
  en: And we refer to this as Aquarianism, using water.
  zh: 我们称这种使用水的做法为水主义。
- start: 3627.154
  end: 3632.359
  speaker: unknown
  en: But again, this just becomes an issue for Ignatius because they're having separate meetings.
  zh: 但再次强调，这对伊格内修斯来说成为一个问题，因为他们在举行单独的聚会。
- start: 3632.359
  end: 3634.941
  speaker: unknown
  en: Meetings that are not sanctioned by the bishop.
  zh: 这些聚会没有得到主教的批准。
- start: 3634.941
  end: 3637.523
  speaker: unknown
  en: Meetings that are not under the authority of the bishop.
  zh: 这些聚会不在主教的权威之下。
- start: 3637.523
  end: 3643.264
  speaker: unknown
  en: And this is exactly why the bishop  Retain the authority over the sacraments.
  zh: 这正是主教保留对圣事的权威的原因。
- start: 3643.664
  end: 3649.647
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because the way you do the sacraments says something about your Christology.
  zh: 因为你执行圣事的方式反映了你的基督论。
- start: 3649.647
  end: 3654.929
  speaker: unknown
  en: And your Christology says something about your soteriology, or what you believe about salvation.
  zh: 而你的基督论又反映了你的救赎论，或者说你对救赎的信仰。
- start: 3655.669
  end: 3658.51
  speaker: unknown
  en: And remember, it's all about salvation.
  zh: 记住，这一切都是关于救赎的。
- start: 3658.831
  end: 3669.315
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because the argument from the mainstream church was that, remember, a human-only Jesus can't save, and a divine-only Jesus can't save.
  zh: 因为主流教会的论点是，记住，一个只有人性的耶稣不能拯救，一个只有神性的耶稣也不能拯救。
- start: 3669.315
  end: 3672.217
  speaker: unknown
  en: Salvation requires the two natures.
  zh: 救赎需要两种本性。
- start: 3672.217
  end: 3676.94
  speaker: unknown
  en: Salvation requires that the Savior be both divine and human.
  zh: 救赎要求救主既是神又是人。
- start: 3679.422
  end: 3688.228
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, one more thing I want to point out, in case you missed it, and that is that heresy is not another religion.
  zh: 现在，我想指出的另一件事，以防你没注意到，那就是异端不是另一种宗教。
- start: 3688.228
  end: 3691.169
  speaker: unknown
  en: Heresy is something going on within the Church.
  zh: 异端是教会内部发生的事情。
- start: 3691.29
  end: 3694.872
  speaker: unknown
  en: If it wasn't within the Church, it would just be paganism.
  zh: 如果它不在教会内部，那就只是异教。
- start: 3695.192
  end: 3699.535
  speaker: unknown
  en: But because it's within the Church, it's an issue.
  zh: 但因为它在教会内部，所以它是一个问题。
- start: 3701.005
  end: 3708.149
  speaker: unknown
  en: And again, the heretics are not simply people who believe something different or even believe something wrong.
  zh: 再次强调，异端不仅仅是相信不同事物或甚至相信错误事物的人。
- start: 3708.65
  end: 3710.611
  speaker: unknown
  en: The heretics are the ones who teach it.
  zh: 异端是那些教导它的人。
- start: 3710.611
  end: 3723.979
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, if I lived in the early church and I said, well, I don't think Jesus was divine, my bishop might say, well, that's not the teaching of the church.
  zh: 换句话说，如果我生活在早期教会，我说，嗯，我不认为耶稣是神，我的主教可能会说，嗯，那不是教会的教导。
- start: 3723.979
  end: 3724.98
  speaker: unknown
  en: We don't agree with that.
  zh: 我们不同意那个。
- start: 3724.98
  end: 3726.34
  speaker: unknown
  en: Please shut up about that.
  zh: 请不要再谈论那个。
- start: 3726.34
  end: 3729.102
  speaker: unknown
  en: Please think about what you're saying.
  zh: 请思考你在说什么。
- start: 3729.144
  end: 3732.606
  speaker: unknown
  en: you know, listen to your authorities, get on board.
  zh: 你知道，听从你的权威，接受它。
- start: 3732.866
  end: 3737.169
  speaker: unknown
  en: But, you know, it wouldn't be like I'd necessarily be excommunicated or anything.
  zh: 但是，你知道，我不一定会被逐出教会或怎么样。
- start: 3737.169
  end: 3746.335
  speaker: unknown
  en: But if I go around teaching that, now I'm a heretic, and now I'm going to be excommunicated if I don't stop teaching it.
  zh: 但如果我到处教导那个，现在我就是异端，如果我不停止教导它，我就会被逐出教会。
- start: 3746.335
  end: 3756.724
  speaker: unknown
  en: If I'm confronted and they say, you know what, that's not the teaching of the Church, stop teaching that, and I say, no, this is what I believe, I'm going to teach it anyway, well, that's when it becomes a problem.
  zh: 如果我被confronted，他们说，你知道吗，那不是教会的教导，停止教导那个，而我说，不，这是我相信的，我无论如何都要教导它，那么，这就成为一个问题。
- start: 3756.724
  end: 3757.124
  speaker: unknown
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 3757.124
  end: 3761.628
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because in the eyes of the mainstream church, I'm leading people astray.
  zh: 因为在主流教会看来，我在误导人。
- start: 3761.668
  end: 3770.835
  speaker: unknown
  en: The heretic leads the Christians who don't know any better, maybe, astray and away from salvation.
  zh: 异端可能会误导那些不太了解情况的基督徒，使他们偏离救赎。
- start: 3771.436
  end: 3772.457
  speaker: unknown
  en: Question?
  zh: 有问题吗？
- start: 3772.457
  end: 3776.0
  speaker: unknown
  en: Were the Orthodox leaders of the early church putting heretics to death at this point?
  zh: 早期教会的正统领袖在这个时候是否处死异端？
- start: 3776.0
  end: 3778.181
  speaker: unknown
  en: No. Good question.
  zh: 不。好问题。
- start: 3779.123
  end: 3787.582
  speaker: unknown
  en: When we talk about heretics and heresy, I'm sure it conjures up all kinds of images that you may know from  You know, European history and stuff.
  zh: 当我们谈论异端和异端邪说时，我相信它会让你想起你可能从欧洲历史等方面了解到的各种画面。
- start: 3787.582
  end: 3794.647
  speaker: unknown
  en: And, you know, yeah, late Middle Ages and Renaissance and stuff, there were times when heretics were burned at the stake.
  zh: 你知道，是的，在中世纪晚期和文艺复兴时期，确实有异端被烧死在火刑柱上的时候。
- start: 3794.647
  end: 3802.693
  speaker: unknown
  en: A lot of this comes up during the Reformation and, you know, in persecutions between Catholics and Protestants, or even between different kinds of Protestants.
  zh: 这种情况在宗教改革期间大量出现，你知道，在公教会和新教徒之间的迫害中，甚至在不同类型的新教徒之间也有。
- start: 3803.454
  end: 3805.215
  speaker: unknown
  en: But that's not going on yet.
  zh: 但那还没有发生。
- start: 3805.456
  end: 3814.442
  speaker: unknown
  en: Heretics are not being killed because, well, not because, but I mean, the heretics are not being killed, they're being excommunicated.
  zh: 异端没有被杀死，因为，嗯，不是因为，我的意思是，异端没有被杀死，他们被逐出教会。
- start: 3814.599
  end: 3818.98
  speaker: unknown
  en: To be excommunicated is to be excluded from Communion.
  zh: 被逐出教会就是被排除在圣餐之外。
- start: 3819.88
  end: 3827.942
  speaker: unknown
  en: The ultimate punishment in the Church is to be excluded from the table of the Eucharist.
  zh: 教会最严厉的惩罚就是被排除在圣餐桌之外。
- start: 3828.482
  end: 3840.265
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's a big deal because it's at the table of the Eucharist that one receives the sacrament that keeps you connected to Christ.
  zh: 这是一件大事，因为正是在圣餐桌上，人们领受使你与基督保持联系的圣事。
- start: 3842.042
  end: 3846.645
  speaker: unknown
  en: To be excluded from the table of the Eucharist is to be excluded from salvation.
  zh: 被排除在圣餐桌之外就是被排除在救赎之外。
- start: 3848.166
  end: 3858.012
  speaker: unknown
  en: We'll get into this more, but the idea is that if you're excommunicated, you risk not only damnation, but things like you aren't going to get a decent burial.
  zh: 我们会更深入地讨论这个问题，但基本思想是，如果你被逐出教会，你不仅冒着被诅咒的风险，而且还可能得不到体面的葬礼。
- start: 3858.012
  end: 3862.094
  speaker: unknown
  en: You aren't going to get a Christian burial if you die in a state of excommunication.
  zh: 如果你在被逐出教会的状态下死亡，你将不会得到基督教葬礼。
- start: 3862.975
  end: 3866.197
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, back to the question.
  zh: 所以，回到问题。
- start: 3869.443
  end: 3872.805
  speaker: unknown
  en: Christians are being persecuted by the Roman Empire.
  zh: 基督徒正在被罗马帝国迫害。
- start: 3873.747
  end: 3883.695
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in a certain sense, as long as Christians are being persecuted by the Roman Empire, that takes center stage.
  zh: 在某种意义上，只要基督徒还在被罗马帝国迫害，这就成为了中心问题。
- start: 3883.695
  end: 3900.487
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, once Christians aren't persecuted by the Empire anymore, then they do start persecuting each other, you know, Orthodox persecuting heretics, heretics persecuting Orthodox,  But still not really killing each other.
  zh: 现在，一旦基督徒不再被帝国迫害，他们就开始互相迫害，你知道，正统派迫害异端，异端迫害正统派，但仍然没有真正杀害对方。
- start: 3900.487
  end: 3903.867
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, every once in a while you get an angry mob that will lynch somebody.
  zh: 现在，偶尔会有愤怒的暴民私刑处死某人。
- start: 3904.147
  end: 3907.908
  speaker: unknown
  en: So yes, there are those moments.
  zh: 所以是的，确实有这样的时刻。
- start: 3907.908
  end: 3911.349
  speaker: unknown
  en: But for the most part, that's not a sanctioned thing.
  zh: 但在大多数情况下，这不是被认可的行为。
- start: 3911.929
  end: 3915.19
  speaker: unknown
  en: You know, the burnings at the stake and that stuff comes up much later.
  zh: 你知道，火刑柱和那些事情是在很久以后才出现的。
- start: 3915.19
  end: 3917.95
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's more medieval and earlier on.
  zh: 这更多是中世纪和更早的事。
- start: 3918.27
  end: 3919.851
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yes, question there.
  zh: 是的，那里有个问题。
- start: 3919.851
  end: 3926.332
  speaker: unknown
  en: With the persecution of the early church, how does that relate to the book of Revelation and what do you think John does?
  zh: 早期教会的迫害与启示录有什么关系，你认为约翰做了什么？
- start: 3926.604
  end: 3931.508
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, well, it's funny you should ask that, because I wrote a whole book on that.
  zh: 是的，嗯，你问这个很有意思，因为我写了一整本书来讨论这个问题。
- start: 3933.95
  end: 3948.983
  speaker: unknown
  en: First, I'll just preface it by saying, you know, the Book of Revelation is one of the most difficult books to interpret, and so everything I'm about to say, you will, it would be easy to find scholars who disagree with it.
  zh: 首先，我要先说明一下，你知道，启示录是最难解释的书之一，所以我将要说的一切，你会发现很容易找到不同意的学者。
- start: 3948.983
  end: 3950.523
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, I'll just put that out there.
  zh: 所以，我只是把这一点说出来。
- start: 3950.784
  end: 3961.096
  speaker: unknown
  en: My own personal view is that it,  It is written, in fact, by the Apostle John in the year 95 during a persecution by the Emperor Domitian.
  zh: 我个人的观点是，它实际上是使徒约翰在95年多米田皇帝迫害期间写的。
- start: 3962.036
  end: 3972.222
  speaker: unknown
  en: When you really set the biblical text side by side with the Roman history, that's where you come out.
  zh: 当你真正将圣经文本与罗马历史并列比较时，你就会得出这个结论。
- start: 3972.362
  end: 3985.442
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so it is written, it is absolutely written during a time of persecution, and it's written to a persecuted church,  And the symbolism, a lot of the symbolism doesn't make sense without understanding it.
  zh: 所以它是写于迫害时期的，绝对是写给受迫害的教会的，而且其中的象征意义，如果不理解这一点，很多象征就没有意义。
- start: 3985.442
  end: 3997.891
  speaker: unknown
  en: The other thing about my particular theory about the book of Revelation is that a lot of the stuff in the book of Revelation is reference to events that have already happened even before the book was written.
  zh: 关于我对启示录的特殊理论，另一件事是启示录中的许多内容都是指在书写之前已经发生的事件。
- start: 3997.891
  end: 4001.633
  speaker: unknown
  en: So there's a lot of stuff in the book of Revelation about the fall of Jerusalem.
  zh: 所以启示录中有很多关于耶路撒冷陷落的内容。
- start: 4001.633
  end: 4010.559
  speaker: unknown
  en: And a lot of the apocalyptic imagery relates to the fall of Jerusalem, which was already 25 years in the past when the book was written.
  zh: 许多启示性的意象都与耶路撒冷的陷落有关，而这在书写时已经是25年前的事了。
- start: 4011.635
  end: 4022.722
  speaker: unknown
  en: But that was a watershed event for them and so the author is kind of looking back on that as well as talking about their present situation and looking forward to the future.
  zh: 但那对他们来说是一个分水岭事件，所以作者既在回顾那件事，也在谈论他们当前的处境，并展望未来。
- start: 4022.722
  end: 4030.328
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so the prophecy, the future prophecy of the book of Revelation in large part hinges around this.
  zh: 因此，启示录中的预言，未来的预言在很大程度上围绕着这一点。
- start: 4030.328
  end: 4032.608
  speaker: unknown
  en: Hey, the Romans are being persecuted.
  zh: 嘿，罗马人正在受到迫害。
- start: 4032.608
  end: 4036.371
  speaker: unknown
  en: But God's going to win in the end, and eventually they're going to get what's coming to them.
  zh: 但神最终会胜利，他们最终会得到应得的报应。
- start: 4036.371
  end: 4039.834
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's kind of what it boils down to.
  zh: 这就是它的核心内容。
- start: 4039.834
  end: 4041.715
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the author predicts the fall of Rome.
  zh: 所以作者预言罗马的陷落。
- start: 4041.715
  end: 4042.436
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, guess what?
  zh: 猜猜怎么着？
- start: 4042.436
  end: 4044.417
  speaker: unknown
  en: That prediction happened.
  zh: 那个预言实现了。
- start: 4044.458
  end: 4046.159
  speaker: unknown
  en: So anyway, that's kind of my take.
  zh: 总之，这就是我的看法。
- start: 4046.159
  end: 4049.121
  speaker: unknown
  en: If you're really interested, you can read my book on it.
  zh: 如果你真的感兴趣，你可以读我写的关于这个的书。
- start: 4049.121
  end: 4053.024
  speaker: unknown
  en: But again, there are plenty of people who disagree with me.
  zh: 但再次强调，有很多人不同意我的观点。
- start: 4053.024
  end: 4057.868
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's called The Wedding of the Lamb, A Historical Approach to the Book of Revelation.
  zh: 它叫《羔羊的婚礼，启示录的历史方法》。
- start: 4057.868
  end: 4059.269
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's in the bookstore.
  zh: 它在书店里有售。
- start: 4059.83
  end: 4060.891
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Wedding of the Lamb.
  zh: 《羔羊的婚礼》。
- start: 4060.891
  end: 4061.531
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yes?
  zh: 是的？
- start: 4061.912
  end: 4076.823
  speaker: unknown
  en: You talked about sort of the biblical theological base, well not necessarily the biblical frame, but the theological basis for unity and that being the whole sort of glue that holds these heretics versus orthodoxy debates together.
  zh: 你谈到了某种圣经神学基础，虽然不一定是圣经框架，但是关于合一的神学基础，这是将异端与正统辩论联系在一起的整体粘合剂。
- start: 4076.823
  end: 4083.228
  speaker: unknown
  en: Were there practical political reasons for the unity of the church at that time that were also in the background going on there?
  zh: 当时教会合一是否也有实际的政治原因在背后发挥作用？
- start: 4083.228
  end: 4086.751
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, I mean, I think in a practical sense, you know, there's strength in numbers.
  zh: 嗯，我的意思是，从实际意义上讲，你知道，人多力量大。
- start: 4086.751
  end: 4096.079
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, you know,  In a church that is persecuted and trying to grow, you want people to be unified.
  zh: 所以，你知道，在一个受迫害并试图成长的教会中，你希望人们团结一致。
- start: 4096.079
  end: 4097.3
  speaker: unknown
  en: You want them to stick together.
  zh: 你希望他们团结在一起。
- start: 4097.3
  end: 4101.502
  speaker: unknown
  en: You want a unified message in terms of preaching of the gospel.
  zh: 你希望在传福音方面有一个统一的信息。
- start: 4102.403
  end: 4108.446
  speaker: unknown
  en: You don't want internal divisions to embarrass the efforts at evangelization.
  zh: 你不希望内部分裂使传福音的努力尴尬。
- start: 4108.446
  end: 4111.688
  speaker: unknown
  en: So there's that.
  zh: 所以就是这样。
- start: 4112.938
  end: 4116.239
  speaker: unknown
  en: In the early days of the church, there isn't as much in terms of politics.
  zh: 在教会的早期，在政治方面并没有那么多。
- start: 4116.239
  end: 4120.221
  speaker: unknown
  en: I mean, later on there are some issues with rival cities and stuff.
  zh: 我的意思是，后来确实出现了一些与竞争城市有关的问题。
- start: 4120.221
  end: 4125.142
  speaker: unknown
  en: But for the most part, you've got to remember that church leadership is nobody's day job at the beginning.
  zh: 但在大多数情况下，你必须记住，在开始时教会领导并不是任何人的全职工作。
- start: 4125.142
  end: 4126.943
  speaker: unknown
  en: Nobody's making money off this.
  zh: 没有人从中赚钱。
- start: 4127.043
  end: 4135.646
  speaker: unknown
  en: So if you're used to thinking about hierarchy and authority in terms of power and money, it's way too early for that.
  zh: 所以如果你习惯于从权力和金钱的角度思考等级制度和权威，那现在还为时过早。
- start: 4136.026
  end: 4140.227
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because that's not happening yet.
  zh: 因为那还没有发生。
- start: 4142.378
  end: 4143.558
  speaker: unknown
  en: Good question, though.
  zh: 不过，这是个好问题。
- start: 4144.939
  end: 4145.939
  speaker: unknown
  en: Is that question back there?
  zh: 那边有问题吗？
- start: 4145.939
  end: 4147.239
  speaker: unknown
  en: No? Okay.
  zh: 没有？好的。
- start: 4147.239
  end: 4150.32
  speaker: unknown
  en: Let me see if there's anything else I want to say.
  zh: 让我看看还有什么我想说的。
- start: 4150.9
  end: 4154.26
  speaker: unknown
  en: Actually, I think that's good.
  zh: 实际上，我觉得这样就很好。
- start: 4154.26
  end: 4159.301
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, let's see what other questions or discussion you have, and then we'll go from there.
  zh: 现在，让我们看看你还有什么其他问题或讨论，然后我们再继续。
- start: 4160.502
  end: 4161.422
  speaker: unknown
  en: Anything I've talked about?
  zh: 我说的任何内容有问题吗？
- start: 4161.422
  end: 4162.122
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yes?
  zh: 是的？
- start: 4162.222
  end: 4167.663
  speaker: unknown
  en: Where does Gnosticism fit into, like, the Docetism that you were talking about earlier?
  zh: 诺斯替主义如何与你之前提到的幻影说联系起来？
- start: 4167.663
  end: 4167.983
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 4167.983
  end: 4171.943
  speaker: unknown
  en: Good question, and we're going to talk about that more next week.
  zh: 好问题，我们下周会更多地讨论这个。
- start: 4171.943
  end: 4178.144
  speaker: unknown
  en: But, in some ways, Gnosticism is sort of Dosagism of the next generation.
  zh: 但在某些方面，诺斯替主义是下一代的幻影说。
- start: 4178.144
  end: 4185.586
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, as I said, remember, every orthodoxy is based on the orthodoxy of the previous generation.
  zh: 所以，正如我所说，记住，每一个正统都是基于上一代的正统。
- start: 4185.586
  end: 4189.127
  speaker: unknown
  en: In the same way, every heresy is based on a heresy of the previous generation.
  zh: 同样，每一个异端都是基于上一代的异端。
- start: 4189.127
  end: 4195.569
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, as Dosagism evolves, one of the things that it evolves into is Gnosticism.
  zh: 所以，随着幻影说的演变，它演变成的一个方向就是诺斯替主义。
- start: 4195.569
  end: 4201.87
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, there's some debate over that among scholars, you know, how soon true Gnosticism emerges.
  zh: 现在，学者们对此有一些争论，你知道，真正的诺斯替主义出现得有多快。
- start: 4202.364
  end: 4218.791
  speaker: unknown
  en: I don't think you see true Gnosticism yet in the New Testament, but it's coming, and it sort of evolved out of Docetism as a kind of, you know, amalgam or syncretism of Docetism plus other aspects of pagan or Greco-Roman religion.
  zh: 我认为在新约中还看不到真正的诺斯替主义，但它正在到来，它某种程度上是从幻影说演变而来的，你知道，是幻影说加上异教或希腊罗马宗教其他方面的一种混合或融合。
- start: 4218.791
  end: 4220.431
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, it's definitely coming.
  zh: 所以，它肯定会来。
- start: 4220.431
  end: 4221.252
  speaker: unknown
  en: We'll talk about that.
  zh: 我们会讨论这个。
- start: 4221.252
  end: 4229.335
  speaker: unknown
  en: In reading the early Church Fathers, I go into it in some depth in terms of, you know, what Gnosticism was and stuff, so you'll read about that.
  zh: 在阅读早期教父的著作时，我会深入探讨诺斯替主义是什么等内容，所以你会读到这些。
- start: 4230.863
  end: 4239.67
  speaker: unknown
  en: Since we're talking about Ignatius, and you were saying that he's writing these letters on a Catholic throne, is there a certain order we should read these letters in?
  zh: 既然我们在谈论伊格内修斯，你说他在公教会的宝座上写这些信，我们应该按某种顺序阅读这些信吗？
- start: 4239.67
  end: 4243.133
  speaker: unknown
  en: Oh, no, I wouldn't worry about that.
  zh: 哦，不，我不会担心这个。
- start: 4245.275
  end: 4253.141
  speaker: unknown
  en: I suppose if you were to look into it, you could figure out what order he wrote them in, but I wouldn't worry about that for our purposes.
  zh: 我想如果你深入研究，你可以弄清楚他写这些信的顺序，但就我们的目的而言，我不会担心这个。
- start: 4253.141
  end: 4259.026
  speaker: unknown
  en: By the way, I will also say that with the letters of Ignatius, there's a long version and a short version.
  zh: 顺便说一下，我还要说的是，伊格内修斯的信有长版和短版。
- start: 4259.249
  end: 4262.272
  speaker: unknown
  en: And this happens sometimes with early documents.
  zh: 这种情况有时在早期文献中会发生。
- start: 4262.272
  end: 4264.293
  speaker: unknown
  en: I'm asking you to read the short version.
  zh: 我要求你们读短版。
- start: 4264.814
  end: 4267.417
  speaker: unknown
  en: You're welcome.
  zh: 不用谢。
- start: 4267.417
  end: 4274.903
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because in this case, it is probably the case that the long versions were later expansions by somebody else.
  zh: 因为在这种情况下，长版可能是后来由其他人扩展的。
- start: 4274.903
  end: 4278.507
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, there may be scholars who argue the other way around.
  zh: 现在，可能有学者会持相反观点。
- start: 4278.507
  end: 4282.49
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the point is that I think the short versions are fine for you to read.
  zh: 但重点是我认为短版对你们来说足够了。
- start: 4282.731
  end: 4290.704
  speaker: unknown
  en: But if you stumble on them somewhere else,  In some place other than the links I'm giving you, you might find long versions and short versions.
  zh: 但如果你在其他地方偶然发现它们，在我给你的链接以外的地方，你可能会发现长版和短版。
- start: 4291.084
  end: 4293.705
  speaker: unknown
  en: Read the short version.
  zh: 读短版。
- start: 4293.705
  end: 4294.285
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yes?
  zh: 是的？
- start: 4294.285
  end: 4297.165
  speaker: unknown
  en: I mentioned that there's this need for unity among the churches.
  zh: 我提到教会之间有统一的需要。
- start: 4297.165
  end: 4306.167
  speaker: unknown
  en: How long, how soon did different cities start veering away from each other, and were there any particular issues that really varied city to city?
  zh: 不同城市开始偏离彼此需要多长时间，多快？是否有任何特定问题在不同城市之间真正存在差异？
- start: 4307.327
  end: 4317.234
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, what you have to understand is that  There is a hierarchy of cities as well.
  zh: 嗯，你必须明白的是，城市之间也存在等级制度。
- start: 4318.094
  end: 4326.038
  speaker: unknown
  en: Certain cities emerge as having authority over other cities in their region.
  zh: 某些城市在其地区内对其他城市拥有权威。
- start: 4326.318
  end: 4332.821
  speaker: unknown
  en: And these cities that emerge as having a higher level of authority are called metropolitans.
  zh: 这些拥有更高权威的城市被称为都会区。
- start: 4332.821
  end: 4350.073
  speaker: unknown
  en: Eventually, just when you might see cities at odds with each other, we are getting to the point where  Two smaller cities might sort of have to defer to a larger city, so you have an authority then.
  zh: 最终，就在你可能看到城市之间有矛盾的时候，我们正到达这样一个点：两个较小的城市可能不得不听从一个较大城市的意见，所以你就有了一个权威。
- start: 4350.334
  end: 4360.423
  speaker: unknown
  en: When you have disputes between the metropolitans, then in some cases, Rome becomes a sort of last court of appeal.
  zh: 当都会区之间发生争议时，在某些情况下，罗马成为一种最后的上诉法院。
- start: 4360.444
  end: 4365.288
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other cases, that's disputed, and so you will see some conflict.
  zh: 在其他情况下，这是有争议的，所以你会看到一些冲突。
- start: 4366.544
  end: 4368.785
  speaker: unknown
  en: We're getting ahead of ourselves with that.
  zh: 我们在这方面有点超前了。
- start: 4369.186
  end: 4375.509
  speaker: unknown
  en: The fourth century is a mess, but a lot of this stuff happened in the fourth century, so we'll get there.
  zh: 四世纪是一团糟，但很多这样的事情发生在四世纪，所以我们会讲到那里。
- start: 4375.51
  end: 4382.734
  speaker: unknown
  en: But we do see the development of a sort of hierarchy of cities as well.
  zh: 但我们确实也看到了城市等级制度的发展。
- start: 4385.281
  end: 4396.024
  speaker: unknown
  en: Replace, especially in the modern church, a large emphasis on the work of the Apostle Paul in starting churches around where did he fit into the apostolic succession?
  zh: 特别是在现代教会中，取代了对使徒保罗在建立教会方面工作的大量强调，他在使徒继承中的位置如何？
- start: 4396.024
  end: 4399.445
  speaker: unknown
  en: Was he equal with the other disciples, like the little Peter?
  zh: 他是否与其他门徒平等，比如小彼得？
- start: 4399.445
  end: 4404.386
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, the question is where does Paul fit into the apostolic succession?
  zh: 是的，问题是保罗在使徒继承中的位置如何？
- start: 4404.386
  end: 4413.509
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, you know, there's no real hierarchy of apostles apart from the fact that Peter is sort of the head apostle.
  zh: 嗯，你知道，除了彼得是某种程度上的首席使徒这一事实外，使徒之间并没有真正的等级制度。
- start: 4415.001
  end: 4431.604
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so with Paul, I think it's fair to say that any of the cities where there are churches that he founded, especially the biblical cities that have letters by Paul written to them, they would claim succession going back to Paul.
  zh: 所以对于保罗，我认为可以公平地说，任何有他建立的教会的城市，特别是那些有保罗写给他们的信的圣经城市，他们都会声称继承可以追溯到保罗。
- start: 4432.704
  end: 4444.526
  speaker: unknown
  en: But he doesn't get associated with any of the metropolitans, I don't think, and certainly not Rome, even though you would think Paul might have as much claim to Rome as Peter does.
  zh: 但我认为他没有与任何都会区联系在一起，当然也不包括罗马，尽管你可能会认为保罗对罗马的主张和彼得一样多。
- start: 4444.687
  end: 4455.258
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because Paul was there, he was martyred there, etc. But he really doesn't. Peter gets wrong, and I don't think Paul gets associated with any of the other metropolitans.
  zh: 因为保罗在那里，他在那里殉道等等。但他实际上并没有。彼得得到了错误的认识，我认为保罗也没有与任何其他都会区联系在一起。
- start: 4455.258
  end: 4462.044
  speaker: unknown
  en: But again, remember, what you have to remember is that Paul did not know Jesus personally during Jesus' ministry.
  zh: 但再次提醒，你必须记住的是，保罗在耶稣传道期间并不认识耶稣本人。
- start: 4462.545
  end: 4470.37
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, in that sense,  You might be able to argue that he is the last of the Apostles, or the least of the Apostles.
  zh: 所以，从这个意义上说，你可能会认为他是最后一位使徒，或是最小的使徒。
- start: 4470.37
  end: 4478.215
  speaker: unknown
  en: That would be a great research paper, but since I'm not making you write research papers in this class, you'll have to save it for later.
  zh: 这将是一篇很好的研究论文，但由于我不要求你在这门课上写研究论文，你必须把它留到以后。
- start: 4478.215
  end: 4478.335
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yes?
  zh: 是的？
- start: 4478.335
  end: 4496.903
  speaker: unknown
  en: Can I, to kind of join in on that, as far as religious experience, how does that play a part in, for instance, Paul was not with Jesus during his ministry, but he gets  I mean, we take what he says as divine, divinely inspired.
  zh: 我可以加入这个讨论吗，就宗教经验而言，它在其中扮演什么角色，例如，保罗在耶稣传道期间并不在场，但他得到了...我的意思是，我们把他说的话当作神圣的，受神启发的。
- start: 4496.903
  end: 4498.524
  speaker: unknown
  en: How does that jump in there?
  zh: 这是如何突然出现的？
- start: 4498.524
  end: 4508.631
  speaker: unknown
  en: How can we can say Paul is divinely inspired and this person isn't? Yeah, well, that question is tied up with the development of the New Testament canon.
  zh: 我们怎么能说保罗是受神启发的，而这个人不是？是的，这个问题与新约正典的发展有关。
- start: 4508.631
  end: 4524.445
  speaker: unknown
  en: But if you're asking, you know, how is it that, you know, that Paul is taken as an authority without perhaps being one of these sort of, you know, primary apostles,  That's a good question.
  zh: 但如果你问的是，你知道，保罗是如何被视为权威的，尽管他可能不是那些所谓的主要使徒之一，这是一个好问题。
- start: 4524.445
  end: 4534.793
  speaker: unknown
  en: I think it has a lot to do with the fact that he wrote a big chunk of the New Testament, and that his writings were considered authoritative from the beginning.
  zh: 我认为这与他写了新约的大部分内容有很大关系，而且他的著作从一开始就被认为是权威的。
- start: 4535.173
  end: 4544.04
  speaker: unknown
  en: It may be a bit of a chicken and egg thing, but it's hard to nail down exactly how that evolved.
  zh: 这可能有点像鸡和蛋的问题，但很难确切说明这是如何演变的。
- start: 4544.04
  end: 4546.302
  speaker: unknown
  en: Paul tells you, though, in his own writing.
  zh: 不过，保罗在他自己的著作中告诉你。
- start: 4546.302
  end: 4549.084
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, yes, he has the mind of Christ, right?
  zh: 嗯，是的，他有基督的心意，对吧？
- start: 4553.843
  end: 4563.085
  speaker: unknown
  en: Any other questions?
  zh: 还有其他问题吗？
- start: 4568.226
  end: 4569.686
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, you know, not necessarily.
  zh: 嗯，你知道，不一定。
- start: 4569.686
  end: 4574.807
  speaker: unknown
  en: The question was, you know, if someone writes with a tone of authority, does that add to their authority?
  zh: 问题是，你知道，如果有人以权威的语气写作，这是否会增加他们的权威？
- start: 4575.388
  end: 4581.629
  speaker: unknown
  en: You know, Ignatius can say things like, you know, well, I'm, you know, not like I'm anybody.
  zh: 你知道，伊格内修斯可以说一些类似的话，比如，嗯，我不是什么重要人物。
- start: 4582.99
  end: 4595.04
  speaker: unknown
  en: And there are certainly cases where an author will write a document that has a very strong tone of authority, but maybe wasn't really listened to that much.
  zh: 当然也有一些情况，作者写的文件带有很强的权威语气，但可能并没有真正得到太多人的关注。
- start: 4595.04
  end: 4599.923
  speaker: unknown
  en: I mean, it's almost like, you know, it seems like they're trying too hard in a sense.
  zh: 我的意思是，这几乎就像，你知道，在某种意义上他们似乎过于努力了。
- start: 4599.923
  end: 4603.106
  speaker: unknown
  en: It sort of begs the question, well, is anybody listening to this?
  zh: 这就引出了一个问题，嗯，有人在听这个吗？
- start: 4603.106
  end: 4609.831
  speaker: unknown
  en: You know, it's almost like, you know, you read a document, it feels like an email that's in all caps, you know.
  zh: 你知道，这几乎就像，你知道，你读一份文件，感觉就像一封全大写的电子邮件，你知道。
- start: 4609.864
  end: 4615.307
  speaker: unknown
  en: But yet, it's like the lie from Hamlet.
  zh: 但是，这就像《哈姆雷特》中的谎言。
- start: 4615.307
  end: 4618.489
  speaker: unknown
  en: He thinks she doesn't protest too much.
  zh: 他认为她并没有过分抗议。
- start: 4618.489
  end: 4622.611
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's not necessarily.
  zh: 这不一定。
- start: 4622.611
  end: 4626.173
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's more about who the author is than anything else.
  zh: 这更多是关于作者是谁，而不是其他任何事情。
- start: 4626.173
  end: 4635.598
  speaker: unknown
  en: When we get into talking about the New Testament, you'll see that authorship is the most important criteria when it comes to authority.
  zh: 当我们谈到新约时，你会看到作者身份是权威性最重要的标准。
- start: 4639.085
  end: 4645.293
  speaker: unknown
  en: Alright, well, seeing a lot of glazed over eyes, maybe we'll call it a day.
  zh: 好吧，看到很多茫然的眼神，也许我们今天就到这里吧。
- start: 4645.874
  end: 4647.456
  speaker: unknown
  en: Thanks for paying attention.
  zh: 谢谢你们的关注。
- start: 4647.897
  end: 4649.92
  speaker: unknown
  en: Have fun with your reading in the early church.
  zh: 祝你们阅读早期教会的内容时玩得开心。
