- start: 1.468
  end: 4.01
  speaker: unknown
  en: Okay, welcome back to the fourth century.
  zh: 好的，欢迎回到四世纪。
- start: 4.751
  end: 10.755
  speaker: unknown
  en: Tonight we're talking about the First Ecumenical Council of the Church, the Council of Nicaea.
  zh: 今晚我们要讨论教会的第一次大公会议，尼西亚会议。
- start: 10.755
  end: 13.357
  speaker: unknown
  en: If you don't know what that means, I'll tell you.
  zh: 如果你不知道这是什么意思，我会告诉你。
- start: 13.537
  end: 22.204
  speaker: unknown
  en: And then in the second hour tonight we're going to talk about the Creed that resulted from the Council of Nicaea and also the Second Ecumenical Council.
  zh: 然后在今晚的第二个小时，我们将讨论尼西亚会议产生的信经，以及第二次大公会议。
- start: 22.204
  end: 24.906
  speaker: unknown
  en: So that's the plan for tonight.
  zh: 这就是今晚的计划。
- start: 25.896
  end: 28.498
  speaker: unknown
  en: Let's talk about the Council of Nicaea.
  zh: 让我们来谈谈尼西亚会议。
- start: 28.498
  end: 30.82
  speaker: unknown
  en: You remember where we've been, I hope.
  zh: 我希望你还记得我们之前讲到哪里。
- start: 30.82
  end: 35.143
  speaker: unknown
  en: We were talking about the Aryan controversy last week.
  zh: 上周我们讨论了亚略主义争议。
- start: 35.143
  end: 37.604
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so now we're going to see where that goes.
  zh: 现在我们要看看这个争议会如何发展。
- start: 37.604
  end: 41.787
  speaker: unknown
  en: But before we get there, I just want to do a couple of things.
  zh: 但在我们进入正题之前，我想先做几件事。
- start: 42.708
  end: 58.389
  speaker: unknown
  en: When we started this course,  One of the first things we talked about in the first couple of weeks or whatever was that we saw two ways that the church determined what was orthodox or correct belief.
  zh: 当我们开始这门课程时，在最初的几周里，我们讨论的第一件事之一就是我们看到教会确定正统或正确信仰的两种方式。
- start: 58.729
  end: 70.513
  speaker: unknown
  en: And the two ways that the church determined orthodoxy were first, apostolic succession, remember that, and then the canon, the development of the New Testament canon.
  zh: 教会确定正统的两种方式是：首先是使徒传承，记住这一点，然后是正典，新约正典的发展。
- start: 70.842
  end: 76.443
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now today we're going to look at two more ways that the church determines orthodoxy.
  zh: 现在我们要看看教会确定正统的另外两种方式。
- start: 76.443
  end: 81.864
  speaker: unknown
  en: One is councils, and the other is the result of the council, creeds.
  zh: 一种是会议，另一种是会议的结果，即信经。
- start: 82.325
  end: 93.487
  speaker: unknown
  en: And of course the point is going to be for the bishops of the councils to draw the lines of boundary around what is orthodox.
  zh: 当然，重点是会议的主教们要为正统信仰划定界限。
- start: 93.487
  end: 113.209
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, by drawing these boundary lines,  They're defining not only correct belief, but they're really defining the church in the sense of what one has to believe to be considered within the mainstream or Catholic church.
  zh: 换句话说，通过划定这些界限，他们不仅定义了正确的信仰，而且实际上定义了教会，即一个人必须相信什么才能被认为是在主流或大公教会之内。
- start: 113.93
  end: 139.026
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now again, I'm using the word Catholic here in the sense of its original meaning, the universal church, but remember it already has  the exclusive nature built into it, in the sense that the boundaries that we're drawing are the boundaries within which you have to stay, color inside the lines, if you want to be considered Catholic,  If you go outside the bounds, you are no longer considered Catholic.
  zh: 再次强调，我在这里使用「大公」一词是指其原始含义，即普世教会，但请记住，它已经具有排他性，因为我们划定的界限是你必须遵守的界限，必须在线内着色，如果你想被视为大公教会的一员。如果你越界，你就不再被视为大公教会的一员。
- start: 139.026
  end: 140.487
  speaker: unknown
  en: And why is that important?
  zh: 为什么这很重要？
- start: 140.487
  end: 141.868
  speaker: unknown
  en: For the sake of unity.
  zh: 为了合一。
- start: 141.868
  end: 151.475
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because if too much diversity of belief is allowed, then we no longer have one church anymore, right?
  zh: 因为如果允许太多信仰的多样性，我们就不再有一个统一的教会了，对吗？
- start: 151.475
  end: 153.136
  speaker: unknown
  en: Then we have multiple churches.
  zh: 那样我们就会有多个教会。
- start: 153.136
  end: 157.519
  speaker: unknown
  en: So really, all of this is for the sake of unity.
  zh: 所以实际上，这一切都是为了合一。
- start: 158.4
  end: 160.121
  speaker: unknown
  en: Alright, so think about it.
  zh: 好，想想看。
- start: 160.121
  end: 178.018
  speaker: unknown
  en: If correct doctrine depends on apostolic succession,  And if apostolic succession is centered in the bishops, the bishops are the successors of the apostles, then when you need to make a major theological decision, what do you do?
  zh: 如果正确的教义取决于使徒传承，而使徒传承以主教为中心，主教是使徒的继承人，那么当你需要做出重大神学决定时，你会怎么做？
- start: 178.219
  end: 180.36
  speaker: unknown
  en: You gather bishops together.
  zh: 你把主教们召集在一起。
- start: 180.521
  end: 187.586
  speaker: unknown
  en: And the bishops meet in councils, or I'm using the word synod to speak of a smaller council.
  zh: 主教们在会议中聚集，或者我用「主教会议」这个词来指代规模较小的会议。
- start: 187.586
  end: 201.539
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the bishops gather in synods or councils, and they talk it out, they debate, they vote,  Often the result of these counsels is the writing of a creed, or a statement of faith.
  zh: 所以主教们在主教会议或大公会议中聚集，他们讨论、辩论、投票，这些会议的结果通常是制定一个信经或信仰声明。
- start: 202.92
  end: 207.642
  speaker: unknown
  en: Sometimes it's referred to as the rule of faith, or the rule of truth.
  zh: 有时它被称为信仰准则或真理准则。
- start: 208.183
  end: 212.465
  speaker: unknown
  en: But a creed outlines doctrine, acceptable doctrine.
  zh: 但信经概述了教义，可接受的教义。
- start: 212.485
  end: 219.029
  speaker: unknown
  en: And by outlining the acceptable doctrine, it excludes the doctrine that's not acceptable, right?
  zh: 通过概述可接受的教义，它排除了不可接受的教义，对吗？
- start: 219.355
  end: 225.76
  speaker: unknown
  en: And of course, you probably know this, but the word creed comes from the Latin credo meaning, I believe.
  zh: 当然，你可能知道这一点，「信经」这个词来自拉丁语credo，意思是「我相信」。
- start: 225.94
  end: 231.465
  speaker: unknown
  en: So this is why the creeds usually start with I believe or we believe, something like that.
  zh: 这就是为什么信经通常以「我相信」或「我们相信」之类的话开始。
- start: 231.465
  end: 244.503
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, in the early church, most likely every city or bishop or catechetical school  has its own statement of faith that it used in the baptismal ritual.
  zh: 在早期教会，很可能每个城市、主教或教理学校都有自己的信仰声明，用于洗礼仪式。
- start: 245.284
  end: 254.494
  speaker: unknown
  en: Sometimes they are very simple, sometimes they're more complicated, but they're probably done interrogatively.
  zh: 有时它们很简单，有时更复杂，但它们可能是以问答的形式进行的。
- start: 254.494
  end: 258.858
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, the presider asks, do you believe?
  zh: 换句话说，主持人问：「你相信吗？」
- start: 259.078
  end: 262.701
  speaker: unknown
  en: And then you respond with a yes, theoretically.
  zh: 理论上，你会回答「是」。
- start: 263.066
  end: 279.881
  speaker: unknown
  en: But it all goes back to the baptismal formula that we see at the end of the Gospel of Matthew, where Jesus says in Matthew 28, Jesus says, go into the world, disciple the nations, and baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
  zh: 但这一切都可以追溯到我们在马太福音结尾看到的洗礼公式，耶稣在马太福音28章说：「你们要去，使万民作我的门徒，奉父、子、圣灵的名给他们施洗。」
- start: 280.161
  end: 287.968
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so the creeds, as statements of faith, are going to be built on a nice three-point outline, right?
  zh: 因此，作为信仰声明的信经将建立在一个很好的三点大纲上，对吗？
- start: 288.322
  end: 293.203
  speaker: unknown
  en: something about the Father, something about the Son, something about the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 关于圣父的内容，关于圣子的内容，关于圣灵的内容。
- start: 293.463
  end: 296.823
  speaker: unknown
  en: At least that's the basic structure that we're going to see.
  zh: 至少这是我们将要看到的基本结构。
- start: 298.424
  end: 305.765
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so the decrees or these early statements of faith were used as a test for membership.
  zh: 因此，这些法令或早期的信仰声明被用作成员资格的测试。
- start: 305.765
  end: 307.345
  speaker: unknown
  en: You want to be baptized?
  zh: 你想受洗吗？
- start: 307.445
  end: 309.466
  speaker: unknown
  en: You need to agree with this.
  zh: 你需要同意这个。
- start: 311.106
  end: 325.178
  speaker: unknown
  en: They were probably also used as tools of catechesis, although as we discussed,  Early catechesis was more about morality than it was about theology, but the creeds were probably used that way.
  zh: 它们可能也被用作教理讲授的工具，尽管正如我们讨论过的，早期的教理讲授更多是关于道德而不是神学，但信经可能也是这样使用的。
- start: 326.079
  end: 335.366
  speaker: unknown
  en: Later on it becomes clear that as a product of a council, a creed is a handy way to put the theological boundaries in writing.
  zh: 后来很明显，作为会议的产物，信经是一种将神学界限以书面形式表达的便捷方式。
- start: 336.147
  end: 340.75
  speaker: unknown
  en: So a council could write a creed in reaction against heresies.
  zh: 因此，会议可以制定信经来反对异端。
- start: 341.555
  end: 352.653
  speaker: unknown
  en: and ultimately heresies are interpreting Scripture one way,  And what comes to be known as orthodoxy is interpreting Scripture a different way.
  zh: 最终，异端是以一种方式解释圣经，而被称为正统的是以另一种方式解释圣经。
- start: 352.653
  end: 358.997
  speaker: unknown
  en: And the Creed represents the orthodox interpretation over against the heretical interpretation.
  zh: 信经代表了正统解释，与异端解释相对。
- start: 358.997
  end: 361.258
  speaker: unknown
  en: And remember my law number one, right?
  zh: 记住我的第一条法则，对吧？
- start: 361.258
  end: 364.36
  speaker: unknown
  en: Heresy forces orthodoxy to define itself.
  zh: 异端迫使正统定义自己。
- start: 364.36
  end: 372.905
  speaker: unknown
  en: And this is never more clear as in the production of the Creed, because when we look at the 19th Creed, it is written primarily in response to Arianism, right?
  zh: 这在信经的制定中表现得最为明显，因为当我们看尼西亚信经时，它主要是为了回应亚略主义而写的，对吗？
- start: 375.806
  end: 380.109
  speaker: unknown
  en: The more heresies popped up, the more the creeds became theological.
  zh: 异端越多，信经就变得越神学化。
- start: 380.109
  end: 385.432
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is exactly what is about to happen at the Council of Nicaea.
  zh: 这正是即将在尼西亚会议上发生的事情。
- start: 386.133
  end: 396.719
  speaker: unknown
  en: In practice, councils are only binding  over the areas that are represented by the bishops in attendance, right?
  zh: 实际上，会议的决定只对出席主教所代表的地区有约束力，对吗？
- start: 396.719
  end: 405.362
  speaker: unknown
  en: So if the council is attended by bishops from a certain region, then the council is theoretically only binding over that region.
  zh: 所以如果会议由某个地区的主教参加，那么理论上会议的决定只对那个地区有约束力。
- start: 406.043
  end: 419.348
  speaker: unknown
  en: But as we saw in the Arian controversy, we had a situation where we had opposing councils or opposing metropolitan synods, one in Alexandria and one in Nicomedia.
  zh: 但正如我们在亚略主义争议中看到的，我们遇到了一种情况，有对立的会议或对立的都主教会议，一个在亚历山大，一个在尼哥米底亚。
- start: 419.488
  end: 428.097
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Alexandrian one  The Catholic Church was the proponent of what we'll call orthodoxy in this case.
  zh: 亚历山大的大公教会在这种情况下是我们所称的正统的支持者。
- start: 428.117
  end: 430.819
  speaker: unknown
  en: The one in Nicomedia supported Arius.
  zh: 尼哥米底亚的支持亚略。
- start: 430.819
  end: 436.788
  speaker: unknown
  en: So now, not only do we have competing bishops,  We have competing councils.
  zh: 所以现在，我们不仅有竞争的主教，还有竞争的会议。
- start: 436.788
  end: 440.21
  speaker: unknown
  en: So what do you do when you have competing councils?
  zh: 那么当你有竞争的会议时，你该怎么办？
- start: 440.29
  end: 450.255
  speaker: unknown
  en: If you have two regional councils that are at odds, you need a council that is authoritative for worldwide Christianity.
  zh: 如果有两个地区性会议相互对立，你需要一个对全世界基督教都有权威的会议。
- start: 450.255
  end: 455.478
  speaker: unknown
  en: You need a council that is over the other opposing councils.
  zh: 你需要一个凌驾于其他对立会议之上的会议。
- start: 455.878
  end: 464.242
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, if you want to have a council that's authoritative for worldwide Christianity, that means you need to gather bishops from all over the world.
  zh: 现在，如果你想召开一个对全世界基督教都有权威的会议，这意味着你需要召集来自世界各地的主教。
- start: 464.346
  end: 471.808
  speaker: unknown
  en: And a worldwide council is called an ecumenical council.
  zh: 而这种世界性的会议被称为大公会议。
- start: 472.488
  end: 475.049
  speaker: unknown
  en: Ecumenical meaning worldwide.
  zh: 「大公」的意思是全世界的。
- start: 476.87
  end: 485.172
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so what we're going to see here is that the Emperor Constantine will convene the first worldwide council of bishops.
  zh: 所以我们将看到，君士坦丁皇帝将召集第一次世界性的主教会议。
- start: 485.212
  end: 491.154
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now before he gets to that point though, Constantine thought he could nip this Arian thing in the bud.
  zh: 不过在他达到那个地步之前，君士坦丁认为他可以在萌芽状态就扼杀这个亚略主义问题。
- start: 491.178
  end: 495.74
  speaker: unknown
  en: And he wrote letters to Alexander of Alexandria and to Arius.
  zh: 他给亚历山大的亚历山大和亚略写了信。
- start: 496.021
  end: 500.943
  speaker: unknown
  en: The letters were delivered by his right-hand man, remember the Bishop Osius?
  zh: 这些信是由他的得力助手送达的，还记得奥西乌斯主教吗？
- start: 502.865
  end: 504.646
  speaker: unknown
  en: Osius delivered the letters.
  zh: 奥西乌斯送达了这些信。
- start: 506.167
  end: 515.872
  speaker: unknown
  en: And the letters basically demand that Alexander and Arius patch up their differences and, if need be, agree to disagree.
  zh: 这些信基本上要求亚历山大和亚略化解他们的分歧，如果有必要的话，同意保留分歧。
- start: 515.872
  end: 520.815
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because remember, Constantine's main concern is the unity of the Church.
  zh: 因为要记住，君士坦丁的主要关切是教会的合一。
- start: 521.187
  end: 523.888
  speaker: unknown
  en: He's finally unified the empire.
  zh: 他终于统一了帝国。
- start: 525.23
  end: 526.05
  speaker: unknown
  en: Oops.
  zh: 哎呀。
- start: 526.17
  end: 527.551
  speaker: unknown
  en: What about the church?
  zh: 那教会呢？
- start: 527.771
  end: 531.253
  speaker: unknown
  en: He had hoped the church would help him hold the empire together.
  zh: 他曾希望教会能帮助他维系帝国的统一。
- start: 531.253
  end: 532.734
  speaker: unknown
  en: Who's going to hold the church together?
  zh: 谁来维系教会的统一呢？
- start: 532.734
  end: 535.496
  speaker: unknown
  en: The church is threatening to split, at least in the East.
  zh: 教会面临分裂的威胁，至少在东方是这样。
- start: 535.616
  end: 539.058
  speaker: unknown
  en: In the East, the church is threatening to split over this area thing.
  zh: 在东方，教会因为这个亚略主义问题面临分裂的威胁。
- start: 539.058
  end: 544.431
  speaker: unknown
  en: I mean, the West has its  So the West has its own problems.
  zh: 我的意思是，西方有它自己的问题。
- start: 544.592
  end: 549.195
  speaker: unknown
  en: But Constantine's main concern is the unity of the church.
  zh: 但君士坦丁的主要关切是教会的合一。
- start: 549.195
  end: 557.601
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in his letters to Arius and Alexander, he says that this issue is too trivial to even worry about it.
  zh: 在他给亚略和亚历山大的信中，他说这个问题太微不足道，甚至不值得担心。
- start: 557.701
  end: 567.868
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now remember, this is the Arian controversy that has a whole Eastern church in an uproar, and here's Constantine saying, this issue is too trivial, it's too esoteric to even argue about it.
  zh: 现在请记住，这就是让整个东方教会陷入骚动的亚略主义争议，而君士坦丁却说，这个问题太微不足道，太深奥，甚至不值得争论。
- start: 568.417
  end: 572.919
  speaker: unknown
  en: The reality is Constantine himself leans toward Arius at this point.
  zh: 事实上，君士坦丁自己在这个时候倾向于亚略。
- start: 572.919
  end: 578.222
  speaker: unknown
  en: He's got to backpedal and get on board with the Orthodox side at the council.
  zh: 他不得不改变立场，在会议上支持正统派。
- start: 579.122
  end: 585.205
  speaker: unknown
  en: But at any rate, Constantine writes these letters where he scolded both Arius and Alexander.
  zh: 但无论如何，君士坦丁写了这些信，责备了亚略和亚历山大。
- start: 585.325
  end: 588.747
  speaker: unknown
  en: He says to Arius, you should never have opposed your bishop.
  zh: 他对亚略说，你永远不应该反对你的主教。
- start: 588.947
  end: 592.729
  speaker: unknown
  en: He says to Alexander, you should never have pressed the issue.
  zh: 他对亚历山大说，你永远不应该强调这个问题。
- start: 592.729
  end: 597.731
  speaker: unknown
  en: And he calls both of them childish and says that they should just agree to disagree.
  zh: 他称他们两个都很幼稚，说他们应该同意保留分歧。
- start: 598.175
  end: 607.901
  speaker: unknown
  en: For Constantine, the bigger issue was actually the fact that we had different ways of calculating the date for Easter.
  zh: 对君士坦丁来说，更大的问题实际上是我们有不同的计算复活节日期的方法。
- start: 608.241
  end: 611.443
  speaker: unknown
  en: So you have at least two different ways.
  zh: 所以你至少有两种不同的方式。
- start: 613.204
  end: 627.413
  speaker: unknown
  en: So that was a bigger issue for Constantine because he was worried that if Christians the world over were celebrating Easter on different dates, then that would be more divisive, or at least it would have the perception of being more divisive.
  zh: 这对君士坦丁来说是一个更大的问题，因为他担心如果全世界的基督徒在不同的日期庆祝复活节，那将会更具分裂性，或至少会给人更具分裂性的印象。
- start: 627.609
  end: 630.03
  speaker: unknown
  en: So for him that was invigoration.
  zh: 所以对他来说，这是一个激励。
- start: 630.03
  end: 636.053
  speaker: unknown
  en: But of course, as you know, Alexander and Arius could not simply agree to disagree.
  zh: 但当然，正如你所知，亚历山大和亚略不能简单地同意保留分歧。
- start: 637.194
  end: 645.198
  speaker: unknown
  en: So in late 324, or early 325, a synod was held in Antioch to address the Arian controversy.
  zh: 所以在324年底或325年初，在安提阿举行了一次主教会议来解决亚略主义争议。
- start: 645.198
  end: 647.899
  speaker: unknown
  en: And Oseus was the presider.
  zh: 奥西乌斯是主持人。
- start: 647.999
  end: 649.66
  speaker: unknown
  en: He chaired that council.
  zh: 他主持了那次会议。
- start: 650.681
  end: 654.683
  speaker: unknown
  en: At that council, Eusebius of Caesarea, remember him?
  zh: 在那次会议上，还记得凯撒利亚的优西比乌吗？
- start: 654.683
  end: 670.51
  speaker: unknown
  en: He's our first  Church Historian Eusebius of Caesarea was accused of being an adoptionist, and he kind of was.
  zh: 他是我们的第一位教会历史学家，凯撒利亚的优西比乌被指控是领养说的支持者，他某种程度上确实是。
- start: 670.57
  end: 680.318
  speaker: unknown
  en: Eusebius was a student of Origen, and in fact wrote a defense of Origen, because Origen himself had been accused of heresy.
  zh: 优西比乌是俄利根的学生，事实上他为俄利根写了一篇辩护，因为俄利根本人曾被指控为异端。
- start: 680.318
  end: 698.413
  speaker: unknown
  en: So by defending Origen, Eusebius got himself into trouble,  And there are aspects of origin and other elements that sort of all come together so that Eusebius is kind of leaning towards Arianism.
  zh: 所以通过为俄利根辩护，优西比乌给自己惹上了麻烦，俄利根的某些观点和其他因素汇集在一起，使得优西比乌有点倾向于亚略主义。
- start: 698.413
  end: 711.558
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so at this council in Antioch, Eusebius wasn't enthusiastic enough for the other bishops in his support of Alexander against Arius, and so he was accused of being an Arian.
  zh: 所以在安提阿的这次会议上，优西比乌在支持亚历山大反对亚略的立场上不够热情，因此被指控为亚略派。
- start: 712.244
  end: 728.056
  speaker: unknown
  en: And the council resulted in the writing of a creed, and that creed made the specific distinction between the concepts of generation and creation.
  zh: 这次会议的结果是制定了一个信经，这个信经明确区分了「生成」和「创造」的概念。
- start: 728.717
  end: 740.786
  speaker: unknown
  en: And we've been over this, so this should be familiar to you, but the point is that the creed says that Christ is generated, begotten, but not created.
  zh: 我们已经讨论过这个，所以你应该很熟悉，但关键是信经说基督是被生的，是受生的，而不是被造的。
- start: 741.852
  end: 744.193
  speaker: unknown
  en: generated but not created.
  zh: 是被生的，而不是被造的。
- start: 744.694
  end: 749.197
  speaker: unknown
  en: And Eusebius of Caesarea refused to sign that creed.
  zh: 凯撒利亚的优西比乌拒绝签署那个信经。
- start: 750.098
  end: 754.921
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now by this time, Constantine had already decided to convene a worldwide council.
  zh: 到这时，君士坦丁已经决定召开一个世界性的会议。
- start: 756.002
  end: 769.152
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so the Senate of Antioch temporarily excommunicated Eusebius that they would reconvene in Nicaea to settle the matter and the final decision would be made there.
  zh: 因此，安提阿的主教会议暂时将优西比乌逐出教会，他们将在尼西亚重新召开会议以解决这个问题，最终决定将在那里做出。
- start: 769.152
  end: 775.64
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so in 325,  We have the first ecumenical council, the Council of Nicaea.
  zh: 所以在325年，我们有了第一次大公会议，尼西亚会议。
- start: 775.64
  end: 780.624
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is the Council of Nicaea because that's the name of the city where it was held.
  zh: 这就是尼西亚会议，因为这是举行会议的城市的名字。
- start: 780.664
  end: 788.851
  speaker: unknown
  en: You will see that it spells sometimes about that middle A. That's okay, but that's the way we spell it now.
  zh: 你会看到有时中间的A的拼写有所不同。这没关系，但这是我们现在的拼写方式。
- start: 788.851
  end: 792.473
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, you know I'm not big on making you memorize dates.
  zh: 现在，你知道我不太喜欢让你记忆日期。
- start: 792.861
  end: 801.132
  speaker: unknown
  en: But if you don't know the date of the first Ecumenical Council, and if I ever meet you ten years from now and I ask you, you better know it.
  zh: 但如果你不知道第一次大公会议的日期，如果我十年后遇到你并问你，你最好知道。
- start: 801.132
  end: 805.098
  speaker: unknown
  en: 325 Council of Nicaea, the first Ecumenical Council of the Church.
  zh: 325年尼西亚会议，教会的第一次大公会议。
- start: 805.098
  end: 807.602
  speaker: unknown
  en: Bishops came from all over the Eastern Empire.
  zh: 主教们从东罗马帝国各地赶来。
- start: 807.602
  end: 815.703
  speaker: unknown
  en: According to Athanasius, there were 318 bishops, but other people who recorded the events have different numbers.
  zh: 根据亚他拿修的说法，有318位主教，但其他记录这些事件的人有不同的数字。
- start: 816.644
  end: 819.324
  speaker: unknown
  en: Remember, these councils don't just meet on one day.
  zh: 记住，这些会议不只是在一天内举行。
- start: 819.324
  end: 820.805
  speaker: unknown
  en: They meet over a period of time.
  zh: 它们会持续一段时间。
- start: 820.805
  end: 823.245
  speaker: unknown
  en: So it could be that some bishops were in and out.
  zh: 所以可能有些主教来来去去。
- start: 823.245
  end: 828.006
  speaker: unknown
  en: It could be that some people are not only counting bishops, but are counting other people.
  zh: 可能有些人不仅在计算主教的数量，还在计算其他人的数量。
- start: 828.006
  end: 833.467
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because there were priests and some lay people at this council.
  zh: 因为这次会议上有神父和一些平信徒。
- start: 834.812
  end: 838.754
  speaker: unknown
  en: There were confessors who were there and they were treated as having great authority.
  zh: 有一些认信者在场，他们被视为具有很大的权威。
- start: 838.754
  end: 840.955
  speaker: unknown
  en: Remember the charismatic authority.
  zh: 记住那种超凡魅力的权威。
- start: 841.195
  end: 845.437
  speaker: unknown
  en: There were some hermits that were there who were also treated with great respect.
  zh: 还有一些隐士在场，他们也受到了极大的尊重。
- start: 846.457
  end: 861.606
  speaker: unknown
  en: By the way, a little bit of a spoiler alert where we're going after this, but if you think about this, if the persecution is over and there's going to be no more martyrdoms,  What will take the place of martyrdom?
  zh: 顺便说一下，这里有一点剧透，我们接下来要讨论的内容，但如果你想想看，如果迫害结束了，不再有殉道者了，那么什么会取代殉道？
- start: 861.806
  end: 863.647
  speaker: unknown
  en: What's going to be the new martyrdom?
  zh: 新的殉道会是什么？
- start: 863.647
  end: 866.187
  speaker: unknown
  en: Assassination.
  zh: 暗杀。
- start: 866.187
  end: 869.529
  speaker: unknown
  en: No. Although there's going to be some of that.
  zh: 不是。虽然会有一些这样的情况。
- start: 869.529
  end: 872.229
  speaker: unknown
  en: No, asceticism.
  zh: 不，是苦修主义。
- start: 872.229
  end: 874.57
  speaker: unknown
  en: Being a hermit or an ascetic.
  zh: 成为一个隐士或苦行者。
- start: 874.57
  end: 878.652
  speaker: unknown
  en: That becomes kind of a spiritual martyrdom, dying to yourself.
  zh: 这成为一种精神上的殉道，向自我而死。
- start: 878.652
  end: 881.193
  speaker: unknown
  en: So that will take the place of martyrdom.
  zh: 所以这将取代殉道。
- start: 881.193
  end: 885.134
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's an aside, but we are going to get there.
  zh: 这是题外话，但我们会讨论到这一点。
- start: 885.454
  end: 888.815
  speaker: unknown
  en: There weren't very many bishops who came from the West.
  zh: 来自西方的主教并不多。
- start: 888.988
  end: 894.371
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the fact that they were all invited means that the council will be binding on them as well.
  zh: 但他们都被邀请的事实意味着这个会议对他们也具有约束力。
- start: 894.371
  end: 906.938
  speaker: unknown
  en: The bishop of Rome was not healthy enough to make a trip, he was too old, but there were some people that he sent to represent him and a small delegation of other bishops from the west.
  zh: 罗马的主教身体不够健康无法前来，他太老了，但他派了一些人代表他，还有一小群来自西方的其他主教。
- start: 906.938
  end: 911.64
  speaker: unknown
  en: The presider, the chair of the council was our old friend Osius of Cordova.
  zh: 会议的主持人，主席是我们的老朋友科尔多瓦的奥西乌斯。
- start: 912.023
  end: 923.271
  speaker: unknown
  en: And Constantine himself took a seat among the bishops and moderated, and so he would, if he thought someone spoke well, he would compliment them, and he would put his two cents in from time to time.
  zh: 君士坦丁本人也坐在主教们中间并进行调解，如果他认为某人说得好，他会赞美他们，他也会不时地发表自己的看法。
- start: 923.271
  end: 938.862
  speaker: unknown
  en: So again, look at how Constantine has, on the one hand, given bishops the authority of civil magistrates, but on the other hand, he has given himself the right to sit at the table with the bishops.
  zh: 所以再看看君士坦丁是如何一方面赋予主教们民事官员的权力，另一方面又给予自己与主教们同席的权利。
- start: 939.906
  end: 940.926
  speaker: unknown
  en: Who else is there?
  zh: 还有谁在那里？
- start: 940.926
  end: 946.968
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, obviously, Alexander of Alexandria and Athanasius.
  zh: 显然，亚历山大的亚历山大和亚他拿修。
- start: 946.968
  end: 958.031
  speaker: unknown
  en: Remember, Athanasius went as Alexander's right-hand man and deacon and Athanasius will succeed him as the next bishop of Alexandria.
  zh: 记住，亚他拿修作为亚历山大的得力助手和执事前来，亚他拿修将继任他成为下一任亚历山大主教。
- start: 958.611
  end: 962.572
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, Athanasius was kind of there as Alexander's secretary.
  zh: 所以，亚他拿修有点像是作为亚历山大的秘书在那里。
- start: 964.093
  end: 978.118
  speaker: unknown
  en: And, obviously, Arius was there and his followers, including  Our other Eusebius, Eusebius of Nicomedia, is also there.
  zh: 显然，亚略和他的追随者也在那里，包括我们的另一个优西比乌，尼哥米底亚的优西比乌也在那里。
- start: 978.118
  end: 982.74
  speaker: unknown
  en: And, of course, Eusebius of Caesarea is there as well.
  zh: 当然，凯撒利亚的优西比乌也在那里。
- start: 985.102
  end: 994.427
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, the main question for the Council is going to be, is the Son co-eternal with the Father or not?
  zh: 所以，会议的主要问题将是，圣子是否与圣父同永恒？
- start: 995.388
  end: 998.25
  speaker: unknown
  en: Is the Son co-eternal with the Father?
  zh: 圣子是否与圣父同永恒？
- start: 998.351
  end: 1000.933
  speaker: unknown
  en: Or, was there a time when he was not?
  zh: 或者，曾经有一个时候他不存在吗？
- start: 1000.933
  end: 1002.954
  speaker: unknown
  en: Was there a time when he did not exist?
  zh: 曾经有一个时候他不存在吗？
- start: 1003.515
  end: 1006.918
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, secondarily, are these guys heretics?
  zh: 现在，其次，这些人是异端吗？
- start: 1006.918
  end: 1008.779
  speaker: unknown
  en: Is the other big question, right?
  zh: 这是另一个大问题，对吗？
- start: 1008.899
  end: 1012.081
  speaker: unknown
  en: Is Eusebius of Caesarea a heretic?
  zh: 凯撒利亚的优西比乌是异端吗？
- start: 1012.081
  end: 1013.862
  speaker: unknown
  en: Is Arius a heretic?
  zh: 亚略是异端吗？
- start: 1014.063
  end: 1016.985
  speaker: unknown
  en: Where are we going to draw those lines of boundaries?
  zh: 我们要在哪里划定那些界限？
- start: 1017.385
  end: 1029.457
  speaker: unknown
  en: One of the first things they did was call up old Eusebius of Caesarea because he's already been  declared a heretic at the Synod of Antioch, and he's been temporarily excommunicated.
  zh: 他们做的第一件事之一就是召见老凯撒利亚的优西比乌，因为他已经在安提阿主教会议上被宣布为异端，并被暂时逐出教会。
- start: 1029.797
  end: 1034.101
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, what do you have to say for yourself, Eusebius of Caesarea?
  zh: 那么，凯撒利亚的优西比乌，你有什么要为自己辩护的吗？
- start: 1034.201
  end: 1039.465
  speaker: unknown
  en: And he produced the baptismal creed in use in Caesarea.
  zh: 他提出了凯撒利亚正在使用的洗礼信经。
- start: 1039.486
  end: 1041.607
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is the creed we use.
  zh: 这是我们使用的信经。
- start: 1042.048
  end: 1047.132
  speaker: unknown
  en: The creed was examined by the Council, and it was determined that there was nothing wrong with it.
  zh: 会议审查了这个信经，并确定它没有任何问题。
- start: 1047.433
  end: 1048.753
  speaker: unknown
  en: It was orthodox.
  zh: 它是正统的。
- start: 1048.874
  end: 1051.816
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, of course, here's the thing.
  zh: 现在，当然，问题在于。
- start: 1052.17
  end: 1055.673
  speaker: unknown
  en: It was very general, not specific enough.
  zh: 它太笼统了，不够具体。
- start: 1056.274
  end: 1064.802
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so the bishops of the council basically said, this is okay, this is orthodox, we'll say, Eusebius, that you're not a heretic.
  zh: 所以会议的主教们基本上说，这没问题，这是正统的，我们会说，优西比乌，你不是异端。
- start: 1065.1
  end: 1072.786
  speaker: unknown
  en: And they decided to use Eusebius' Creed as the template for the creed that would be the product of the Council.
  zh: 他们决定以优西比乌的信经为模板，作为会议产生的信经。
- start: 1072.786
  end: 1077.39
  speaker: unknown
  en: But Eusebius' Creed by itself was not specific enough to refute Arianism.
  zh: 但优西比乌的信经本身不够具体，无法驳斥亚略主义。
- start: 1077.39
  end: 1081.653
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because after all, Eusebius leaned that way anyway, and he was okay with the creed.
  zh: 因为毕竟，优西比乌本来就倾向于那个方向，他对这个信经没有异议。
- start: 1081.653
  end: 1084.436
  speaker: unknown
  en: So they knew that they would have to add to it.
  zh: 所以他们知道他们必须对其进行补充。
- start: 1084.436
  end: 1086.177
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's what we'll talk about in the next hour.
  zh: 这就是我们下一个小时要讨论的内容。
- start: 1086.177
  end: 1103.204
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now remember how adoptionism  Not only denies the divinity of Christ, but adoptionism also denies the uniqueness of Christ among humanity.
  zh: 现在记住领养说不仅否认基督的神性，而且还否认基督在人类中的独特性。
- start: 1103.664
  end: 1108.825
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, Jesus Christ is basically one of us and not much more.
  zh: 换句话说，耶稣基督基本上就是我们中的一员，没有什么特别之处。
- start: 1108.825
  end: 1113.286
  speaker: unknown
  en: And of course, Arianism has the added element of certain quasi-divinity.
  zh: 当然，亚略主义还增加了某种准神性的元素。
- start: 1113.966
  end: 1119.948
  speaker: unknown
  en: But ultimately, any of us could earn that elevated status of quasi-divinity.
  zh: 但最终，我们任何人都可以获得那种提升的准神性地位。
- start: 1119.948
  end: 1128.17
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the point being that, you know,  It sort of removes all the uniqueness about the person of Christ among humanity.
  zh: 所以要点是，你知道，它某种程度上消除了基督在人类中的所有独特性。
- start: 1128.45
  end: 1145.239
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, the bishops of the Council who wanted to refute Arianism knew that to do that they had to come up with a way to include in the Creed a statement that would emphasize Jesus' uniqueness.
  zh: 所以，想要驳斥亚略主义的会议主教们知道，要做到这一点，他们必须想出一种方法，在信经中包含一个强调耶稣独特性的声明。
- start: 1147.7
  end: 1156.97
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, it had to be  enough of an emphasis that the Arians couldn't be okay with it.
  zh: 因此，它必须足够强调，以至于亚略派无法接受。
- start: 1157.731
  end: 1166.697
  speaker: unknown
  en: The problem is, you know, this Arianism is not the old kind of adoptionism that just denies Jesus' divinity out of hand.
  zh: 问题是，你知道，这种亚略主义不是那种直接否认耶稣神性的旧式领养说。
- start: 1166.697
  end: 1170.079
  speaker: unknown
  en: It does have a kind of qualified divinity for Christ.
  zh: 它确实为基督提供了一种有限的神性。
- start: 1170.079
  end: 1174.061
  speaker: unknown
  en: So it does kind of acknowledge some uniqueness of Christ.
  zh: 所以它确实在某种程度上承认基督的一些独特性。
- start: 1175.362
  end: 1178.264
  speaker: unknown
  en: So they needed to say more than simply that Jesus is unique.
  zh: 所以他们需要说的不仅仅是耶稣是独特的。
- start: 1178.264
  end: 1186.128
  speaker: unknown
  en: He must be unique  On the level of his very essence, on the ontological level.
  zh: 他必须在本质层面上，在本体论层面上是独特的。
- start: 1186.548
  end: 1189.289
  speaker: unknown
  en: And he must be eternally unique.
  zh: 而且他必须是永恒独特的。
- start: 1189.329
  end: 1192.811
  speaker: unknown
  en: So it's not enough that he starts out like us, but becomes unique.
  zh: 所以他一开始像我们，但后来变得独特是不够的。
- start: 1192.811
  end: 1194.651
  speaker: unknown
  en: He must be eternally unique.
  zh: 他必须是永恒独特的。
- start: 1194.651
  end: 1198.133
  speaker: unknown
  en: To put it another way, he has to be more like God than like us.
  zh: 换句话说，他必须更像神而不是像我们。
- start: 1199.767
  end: 1202.408
  speaker: unknown
  en: And remember the Christology of descent, right?
  zh: 记住降世基督论，对吧？
- start: 1203.188
  end: 1211.111
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Orthodox Christology of descent says he is God who becomes human, not a man who becomes a god.
  zh: 正统的降世基督论说他是成为人的神，而不是成为神的人。
- start: 1211.331
  end: 1217.713
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so somehow the bishops of the council are going to want to emphasize that aspect of Christology.
  zh: 所以会议的主教们会想要强调基督论的这个方面。
- start: 1217.773
  end: 1227.456
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the Alexandrian bishops, who are leading the way here, needed to come up with a way to describe Christ that emphasized his oneness with God.
  zh: 所以在这里带头的亚历山大主教们需要想出一种描述基督的方式，强调他与神的合一性。
- start: 1228.548
  end: 1244.564
  speaker: unknown
  en: That emphasized the way in which he is the same as God, the same essence, the same substance, just as we get from Irenaeus and Tertullian and Novatian.
  zh: 这强调了他与神相同的方式，相同的本质，相同的实质，就像我们从爱任纽、特土良和诺瓦提安那里得到的一样。
- start: 1244.564
  end: 1253.013
  speaker: unknown
  en: And that would give them something that they could state  in the creed that the Arians could not agree to and that that would exclude Arianism.
  zh: 这将给他们一些可以在信经中陈述的内容，亚略派无法同意，从而排除亚略主义。
- start: 1253.114
  end: 1260.177
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, a new word was introduced into the creed, into the rule of faith.
  zh: 因此，一个新词被引入信经，引入信仰准则。
- start: 1260.617
  end: 1263.799
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's a Greek word.
  zh: 这是一个希腊词。
- start: 1263.799
  end: 1266.4
  speaker: unknown
  en: Some of you already know where this is going.
  zh: 你们中的一些人已经知道这要说什么了。
- start: 1266.741
  end: 1272.184
  speaker: unknown
  en: The word is homoousios.
  zh: 这个词是homoousios。
- start: 1272.184
  end: 1277.066
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, this is the Greek homo, meaning same.
  zh: 这是希腊语的homo，意思是「相同」。
- start: 1277.376
  end: 1282.078
  speaker: unknown
  en: and usios meaning essence, same essence.
  zh: 而usios意味着本质，相同的本质。
- start: 1282.078
  end: 1290.901
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the word means of the same essence, which is to say the same thing as what Tertullian meant by the same substance.
  zh: 所以这个词的意思是「同本质」，也就是特土良所说的「同实质」。
- start: 1291.562
  end: 1302.907
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so when we say that the Father and Son are of the same essence, this is the same thing that we already saw in Irenaeus, Tertullian, and Novatian.
  zh: 所以当我们说圣父和圣子是同本质的时候，这与我们在爱任纽、特土良和诺瓦提安那里已经看到的是一样的。
- start: 1302.907
  end: 1315.353
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, when you translate this into Latin,  and then transliterate the Latin into English, you get the sort of English word, consubstantial.
  zh: 现在，当你把这个翻译成拉丁语，然后再音译成英语，你就得到了英语词「同实质」（consubstantial）。
- start: 1318.513
  end: 1326.355
  speaker: unknown
  en: But again, you can see it right in the word, you know, with or same substance.
  zh: 但是再次，你可以在这个词中直接看到，你知道，「与」或「相同实质」。
- start: 1328.015
  end: 1331.596
  speaker: unknown
  en: So that's the English version of that word.
  zh: 这就是那个词的英语版本。
- start: 1331.596
  end: 1336.657
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, who can tell me where the word consubstantial is in the Bible?
  zh: 现在，谁能告诉我「同实质」这个词在圣经中的哪里？
- start: 1338.24
  end: 1339.86
  speaker: unknown
  en: You're right, it's not.
  zh: 你说得对，它不在圣经中。
- start: 1340.601
  end: 1355.207
  speaker: unknown
  en: And that's going to be the problem, because the Orthodox bishops, the bishops who hold the position that will be determined to be the Orthodox position, the Orthodox bishops want to include this word in the creed.
  zh: 这就是问题所在，因为正统主教们，那些持有将被确定为正统立场的主教们，正统主教们想要在信经中包含这个词。
- start: 1355.387
  end: 1367.172
  speaker: unknown
  en: And the Arians, those who are going to be determined to be the heretics, their complaint is, hey, that word's not biblical.
  zh: 而亚略派，那些将被认定为异端的人，他们的抱怨是，嘿，那个词不是圣经中的。
- start: 1368.271
  end: 1370.052
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, the word's been around.
  zh: 现在，这个词已经存在一段时间了。
- start: 1370.052
  end: 1371.512
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's not brand new.
  zh: 它不是全新的。
- start: 1371.512
  end: 1384.075
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's been around, and there were some people, like Dionysius of Rome, who had said that the Father and Son are homoousios, and he probably got that from Novatian and Tertullian before him.
  zh: 它已经存在了，有些人，比如罗马的狄奥尼修，曾说过圣父和圣子是同本质的，他可能是从他之前的诺瓦提安和特土良那里得到这个概念的。
- start: 1384.316
  end: 1392.298
  speaker: unknown
  en: But there were others, like Eusebius of Nicomedia, who wrote specifically that the Father and Son are not homoousios.
  zh: 但也有其他人，比如尼哥米底亚的优西比乌，特别写道圣父和圣子不是同本质的。
- start: 1392.759
  end: 1394.4
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, which is it?
  zh: 那么，到底是哪一种呢？
- start: 1394.621
  end: 1407.579
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in fact, what the Council did was pulled out Eusebius of Nicomedia's letter, where he argues against the use of the word homoousios, read it out, and condemned it.
  zh: 事实上，会议拿出了尼哥米底亚的优西比乌的信，他在信中反对使用homoousios这个词，宣读了这封信，并予以谴责。
- start: 1408.827
  end: 1421.355
  speaker: unknown
  en: And knew that because the word would not be acceptable to Eusebius of Nicomedia if they put it into the creed, that that would accomplish what they wanted to do in the creed.
  zh: 他们知道，如果把这个词放入信经中，尼哥米底亚的优西比乌是不会接受的，这正好能达到他们在信经中想要做的事。
- start: 1421.796
  end: 1424.578
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because it wouldn't be acceptable to the Arians.
  zh: 因为亚略派不会接受它。
- start: 1424.578
  end: 1432.063
  speaker: unknown
  en: So that word became the key to separating the Orthodox from the Arians.
  zh: 所以这个词成了区分正统派和亚略派的关键。
- start: 1432.563
  end: 1445.531
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now,  What's important to notice about this is that for the first time in the church's history, the Bible alone can't solve the problem.
  zh: 现在，关于这一点需要注意的重要之处是，这是教会历史上第一次仅凭圣经无法解决问题。
- start: 1446.272
  end: 1455.994
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, every biblical word that the bishops tried to insert into the creed, the Arians could agree to it.
  zh: 换句话说，主教们试图插入信经的每一个圣经词语，亚略派都能同意。
- start: 1457.07
  end: 1471.621
  speaker: unknown
  en: And, you know, we talked about the development of the New Testament canon, we talked about patristic exegesis, and we said that, you know, if at all possible, the early church interpreters liked to use Scripture to interpret Scripture.
  zh: 你知道，我们讨论过新约正典的发展，讨论过教父的解经，我们说过，如果可能的话，早期教会的解经者喜欢用圣经解释圣经。
- start: 1472.903
  end: 1475.505
  speaker: unknown
  en: But here's where they run out of Scripture.
  zh: 但这里是他们用尽圣经的地方。
- start: 1475.505
  end: 1483.07
  speaker: unknown
  en: Here's where the bishops had to go outside of Scripture to interpret Scripture.
  zh: 这里是主教们不得不走出圣经来解释圣经的地方。
- start: 1483.07
  end: 1484.932
  speaker: unknown
  en: Does that make sense?
  zh: 这说得通吗？
- start: 1484.932
  end: 1485.512
  speaker: unknown
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 1488.906
  end: 1507.982
  speaker: unknown
  en: Alright, well, the Creed will be written with this word in it, and Arius and many of his followers could not accept the word because to them it sounded either Gnostic or Modalist, Sabellian.
  zh: 好吧，信经将会包含这个词，而亚略和他的许多追随者无法接受这个词，因为对他们来说，这听起来要么像诺斯底主义，要么像形态论，即撒伯流主义。
- start: 1508.263
  end: 1523.057
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, again, if you think about it from the perspective of an adoption, to say that the Father and Son are the same essence  It sounds like you're saying that the Father and Son are the same thing, or one and the same.
  zh: 所以，再次，如果你从领养的角度来考虑，说圣父和圣子是同一本质，听起来就像你在说圣父和圣子是同一个东西，或者是一回事。
- start: 1523.758
  end: 1532.664
  speaker: unknown
  en: And, of course, that's not exactly what the word was meant to mean, but that's what it sounded like to the Arabs.
  zh: 当然，这并不完全是这个词的本意，但这就是亚略派听起来的感觉。
- start: 1532.685
  end: 1551.853
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so at this point,  Different factions sort of emerge, which were probably already there, but they come to life as different groups within this sort of Aryan camp propose other solutions.
  zh: 所以在这一点上，不同的派系开始出现，这些派系可能已经存在，但当亚略派阵营内的不同群体提出其他解决方案时，它们开始活跃起来。
- start: 1552.449
  end: 1561.613
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, for example, the Arians wanted to say, no, let's not say the Son is the same essence as the Father.
  zh: 例如，亚略派想说，不，我们不要说圣子与圣父同本质。
- start: 1561.613
  end: 1565.995
  speaker: unknown
  en: Let's say the Son is of similar essence as the Father.
  zh: 让我们说圣子与圣父本质相似。
- start: 1565.995
  end: 1577.3
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Son is like the Father, but what they mean by that is more in terms of the Son's will conforming to the Father's will.
  zh: 圣子像圣父，但他们的意思更多是指圣子的意志符合圣父的意志。
- start: 1577.3
  end: 1579.961
  speaker: unknown
  en: They're not comfortable with the essence language.
  zh: 他们对本质这种说法感到不舒服。
- start: 1582.486
  end: 1586.53
  speaker: unknown
  en: So some of them are saying, let's say the Son is a similar substance.
  zh: 所以他们中的一些人说，让我们说圣子是相似的实质。
- start: 1586.53
  end: 1590.453
  speaker: unknown
  en: Some of them are saying, let's not use the word substance or essence at all.
  zh: 有些人说，我们根本不要使用实质或本质这个词。
- start: 1590.453
  end: 1592.975
  speaker: unknown
  en: Let's just say the Son is like the Father.
  zh: 让我们只说圣子像圣父。
- start: 1593.756
  end: 1597.499
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so these are various forms of Arianism.
  zh: 这些都是亚略主义的各种形式。
- start: 1597.499
  end: 1599.801
  speaker: unknown
  en: Some of them are called semi-Arianism.
  zh: 其中一些被称为半亚略主义。
- start: 1599.801
  end: 1601.822
  speaker: unknown
  en: We don't need to worry too much about that.
  zh: 我们不需要太担心这个。
- start: 1601.822
  end: 1608.488
  speaker: unknown
  en: There were even some who were more Arian than Arius and who wanted to say, the Son is nothing like the Father.
  zh: 甚至有一些人比亚略更亚略主义，他们想说，圣子与圣父完全不同。
- start: 1609.149
  end: 1611.11
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Son is unlike the Father.
  zh: 圣子与圣父不同。
- start: 1611.545
  end: 1628.408
  speaker: unknown
  en: What's important about this is, we're not going to go into detail about these different factions, because it's really not necessary at this point, but the important thing to notice is that after the council, these different groups will solidify into different factions, and they will even oppose each other.
  zh: 重要的是，我们不会详细讨论这些不同的派系，因为在这一点上真的没有必要，但需要注意的重要一点是，在会议之后，这些不同的群体将巩固成不同的派系，他们甚至会相互对立。
- start: 1628.84
  end: 1646.212
  speaker: unknown
  en: And eventually that opposition will be a benefit to the pro-Nicene party because some of these people will either cancel each other out or some of them will go so far in the other direction that it will cause the people on the fence to go with the Orthodox party.
  zh: 最终，这种对立将有利于支持尼西亚信经的一方，因为这些人中的一些要么会相互抵消，要么会走得太远，以至于会导致那些犹豫不决的人转向正统派。
- start: 1646.212
  end: 1649.054
  speaker: unknown
  en: So it ends up helping in the long run.
  zh: 所以从长远来看，这反而是有帮助的。
- start: 1649.054
  end: 1659.078
  speaker: unknown
  en: But I'll tell you right now, another spoiler alert, that just because a council is going to declare Arianism a heresy does not mean Arianism is going to go away.
  zh: 但我现在就告诉你，这是另一个剧透，仅仅因为一个会议要宣布亚略主义为异端并不意味着亚略主义就会消失。
- start: 1659.078
  end: 1663.339
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's going to be around for a while, and it's going to be a matter of debate for a while.
  zh: 它会存在一段时间，并且会成为一段时间内的辩论话题。
- start: 1664.66
  end: 1672.142
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, in the end though, the word sticks, and the word is used in the creed.
  zh: 不过，最终这个词还是保留了下来，并在信经中使用。
- start: 1672.442
  end: 1688.037
  speaker: unknown
  en: And then, at the end of the council,  All of the bishops are expected to sign the creed as a way of saying that they accept it, that they believe it, and that they will teach it when they get home.
  zh: 然后，在会议结束时，所有的主教都被期望签署信经，以表示他们接受它，相信它，并且在回家后会教导它。
- start: 1689.018
  end: 1700.325
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, at this point, most of the followers of Arius simply found their own way to interpret the word loosely and sign the creed to stay out of trouble.
  zh: 在这一点上，亚略的大多数追随者只是找到了自己的方式来宽松地解释这个词，并签署信经以避免麻烦。
- start: 1701.226
  end: 1704.248
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in fact, Eusebius of Caesarea was one of these.
  zh: 事实上，凯撒利亚的优西比乌就是其中之一。
- start: 1705.456
  end: 1724.29
  speaker: unknown
  en: But he was so uncomfortable with the word that he felt he had to write a letter to the people back in his home, in his hometown, that would get there ahead of him, to explain, okay, now I'm coming home with a creed, it's got a word in it, word's not in the Bible, don't freak out, it's going to be okay.
  zh: 但他对这个词感到如此不舒服，以至于他觉得必须给家乡的人写一封信，在他回去之前就到达那里，解释说：好吧，现在我带着一个信经回家，里面有一个词，这个词不在圣经里，别惊慌，一切都会好的。
- start: 1724.29
  end: 1732.416
  speaker: unknown
  en: You know, so he felt like he had to sort of, you know, defuse the situation before he even got there, because he really was not comfortable with it.
  zh: 你知道，所以他觉得他必须在到达那里之前就缓解局势，因为他真的对此感到不舒服。
- start: 1734.078
  end: 1746.585
  speaker: unknown
  en: Eusebius of Nicomedia and a couple others did sign the creed, but refused to sign the part at the end of the creed that condemns the heretics.
  zh: 尼哥米底亚的优西比乌和其他几个人确实签署了信经，但拒绝签署信经末尾谴责异端的部分。
- start: 1746.585
  end: 1748.686
  speaker: unknown
  en: And you'll see that when we look at the creed.
  zh: 当我们看信经时，你会看到这一点。
- start: 1749.547
  end: 1753.069
  speaker: unknown
  en: And the council said, well, you know, we'll give you a couple of days to think about it.
  zh: 会议说，好吧，你知道，我们会给你几天时间考虑。
- start: 1753.069
  end: 1762.034
  speaker: unknown
  en: And then they sort of, the council a couple days later dispersed and they skipped town and left without ever signing that last part of the creed.
  zh: 然后他们就这样，几天后会议解散了，他们离开了城镇，没有签署信经的最后部分就离开了。
- start: 1762.97
  end: 1774.302
  speaker: unknown
  en: And when Constantine the Emperor found out that Eusebius of Nicomedia had not signed the last part of the Creed, he told the city of Nicomedia to get themselves a new bishop.
  zh: 当君士坦丁皇帝发现尼哥米底亚的优西比乌没有签署信经的最后部分时，他告诉尼哥米底亚城要给自己找一个新主教。
- start: 1775.143
  end: 1783.132
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, I'm pointing that out because I want you to see how the situation is going to flip in just a few minutes.
  zh: 所以，我指出这一点是因为我想让你看到情况将在几分钟内如何翻转。
- start: 1785.5
  end: 1791.743
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, Arius himself refused to sign the creed and some of his followers also didn't sign it.
  zh: 现在，亚略本人拒绝签署信经，他的一些追随者也没有签署。
- start: 1791.743
  end: 1796.845
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, Arius and anyone who refused to sign the creed was excommunicated.
  zh: 所以，亚略和任何拒绝签署信经的人都被逐出教会。
- start: 1797.205
  end: 1801.147
  speaker: unknown
  en: Arius himself was banished from Alexandria.
  zh: 亚略本人被驱逐出亚历山大。
- start: 1801.147
  end: 1814.524
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, notice again, this is new because now  If a person is a heretic, he's also an outlaw.
  zh: 现在，再次注意，这是新的，因为现在如果一个人是异端，他也是一个罪犯。
- start: 1814.524
  end: 1818.085
  speaker: unknown
  en: The emperor is backing the decisions of the council.
  zh: 皇帝支持会议的决定。
- start: 1818.326
  end: 1830.41
  speaker: unknown
  en: So it's one thing to be excommunicated from the church, but when the emperor is now backing the decisions of the council, that means you can also be exiled as well as excommunicated.
  zh: 所以被逐出教会是一回事，但当皇帝现在支持会议的决定时，这意味着你不仅可能被逐出教会，还可能被流放。
- start: 1831.468
  end: 1836.13
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, those areas we didn't sign were excommunicated.
  zh: 所以，那些我们没有签署的地方被逐出教会。
- start: 1836.13
  end: 1840.071
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, the creed was meant to be a standard.
  zh: 现在，信经是被视为一个标准。
- start: 1840.592
  end: 1853.617
  speaker: unknown
  en: Just like we talked about the word canon being a standard, like a yardstick by which other things are measured, the creed was also meant to be a standard by which local creeds could be measured.
  zh: 就像我们讨论过正典这个词是一个标准，像是衡量其他事物的尺度一样，信经也被视为衡量地方信经的标准。
- start: 1853.617
  end: 1868.635
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, it isn't even necessarily the case that everyone had to use the new creed, but  The point was that you took this new creed home and you made sure that if you used another creed at home that it was consistent.
  zh: 所以，并不是每个人都必须使用新的信经，但关键是你把这个新信经带回家，确保如果你在家里使用另一个信经，它是一致的。
- start: 1869.255
  end: 1874.157
  speaker: unknown
  en: You couldn't teach anything that contradicted the new creed.
  zh: 你不能教导任何与新信经相矛盾的东西。
- start: 1875.097
  end: 1879.859
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the creed was supposed to be a standard to compare your local creeds.
  zh: 所以信经应该是用来比较你的地方信经的标准。
- start: 1880.479
  end: 1889.753
  speaker: unknown
  en: But because it had a word in it that's not in Scripture, some people claimed that it was  An innovation.
  zh: 但因为它包含了一个不在圣经中的词，一些人声称它是一个创新。
- start: 1889.753
  end: 1891.215
  speaker: unknown
  en: It was too new.
  zh: 它太新了。
- start: 1891.215
  end: 1895.019
  speaker: unknown
  en: The way heresy is often seen as an innovation.
  zh: 就像异端经常被视为创新一样。
- start: 1895.18
  end: 1896.981
  speaker: unknown
  en: Older is better.
  zh: 越古老越好。
- start: 1897.062
  end: 1903.889
  speaker: unknown
  en: And here is an exception to that rule because this word was perceived as new.
  zh: 这里是那个规则的一个例外，因为这个词被认为是新的。
- start: 1904.791
  end: 1918.029
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, in the end, most of the bishops  Including Athanasius eventually, when he became bishop, most of the bishops just kind of shelved it for a while, let things cool off.
  zh: 所以，最终，大多数主教，包括后来成为主教的亚他拿修，大多数主教只是暂时搁置了它，让事情冷却下来。
- start: 1918.029
  end: 1921.313
  speaker: unknown
  en: They didn't necessarily use the Creed right away.
  zh: 他们并不一定立即使用这个信经。
- start: 1922.175
  end: 1926.705
  speaker: unknown
  en: But by the mid-fourth century,  The creed becomes pretty standard.
  zh: 但到了四世纪中期，这个信经变得相当标准化了。
- start: 1926.705
  end: 1930.488
  speaker: unknown
  en: It becomes a sort of litmus test for orthodoxy.
  zh: 它成为了正统信仰的一种试金石。
- start: 1930.508
  end: 1944.919
  speaker: unknown
  en: If you want to call yourself a Christian, and by that we mean a Catholic Christian, not a heretical Arian or some other virgin, if you want to call yourself a Christian, you must agree to what's in the creed.
  zh: 如果你想称自己为基督徒，我们指的是公教会基督徒，而不是异端的亚略派或其他派别，如果你想称自己为基督徒，你必须同意信经中的内容。
- start: 1944.919
  end: 1950.222
  speaker: unknown
  en: And the creed becomes kind of the minimum standard for orthodoxy.
  zh: 信经成为了正统信仰的最低标准。
- start: 1950.523
  end: 1960.587
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in fact, you know,  Keeping it to a minimum is kind of intentional because you want to keep the mainstream church as large as possible.
  zh: 事实上，你知道，将其保持在最低限度是有意为之的，因为你想让主流教会尽可能地大。
- start: 1960.587
  end: 1963.429
  speaker: unknown
  en: You don't want to excommunicate too many people.
  zh: 你不想逐出太多人。
- start: 1963.429
  end: 1965.351
  speaker: unknown
  en: You don't want to exclude too much.
  zh: 你不想排斥太多。
- start: 1965.351
  end: 1971.215
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the creed is written just enough to exclude the extreme heresies that we've been talking about.
  zh: 所以信经的写法恰到好处，足以排除我们一直在讨论的极端异端。
- start: 1971.215
  end: 1976.98
  speaker: unknown
  en: Adoptionism, Arianism on the one side and also Gnosticism, Modalism on the other.
  zh: 一方面是领养说、亚略主义，另一方面是诺斯底主义、形态论。
- start: 1977.933
  end: 1986.179
  speaker: unknown
  en: But, you know, it's only about a page long, so you can see that they didn't try to come up with every possible scenario.
  zh: 但是，你知道，它只有大约一页长，所以你可以看出他们并没有试图涵盖每一种可能的情况。
- start: 1986.42
  end: 1994.747
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, the main result, then, of the Council of Nicaea is the production of the Creed.
  zh: 所以，尼西亚会议的主要结果就是制定了信经。
- start: 1995.027
  end: 2000.091
  speaker: unknown
  en: But, this is not yet the Creed that we call the Nicene Creed.
  zh: 但是，这还不是我们称之为尼西亚信经的信经。
- start: 2000.632
  end: 2004.255
  speaker: unknown
  en: And we're going to talk in our second hour about that.
  zh: 我们将在第二个小时讨论这个问题。
- start: 2006.179
  end: 2018.767
  speaker: unknown
  en: because we're going to look at the Creed as it was written at Nicaea, and then we're going to talk about the Second Ecumenical Council of Constantinople, and look at how the Creed was updated.
  zh: 因为我们将看看尼西亚会议上写的信经，然后我们将讨论第二次君士坦丁堡大公会议，看看信经是如何更新的。
- start: 2018.767
  end: 2033.477
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the Creed that we know as the Nicene Creed, the one that's in the hymnal or whatever, that is technically the Nicene Constantinopolitan Creed, because it's the product of both the Councils of Nicaea and Constantinople.
  zh: 所以我们所知道的尼西亚信经，就是在赞美诗集或其他地方的那个，技术上来说是尼西亚-君士坦丁堡信经，因为它是尼西亚会议和君士坦丁堡会议的共同产物。
- start: 2034.538
  end: 2036.489
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now,  Before we...
  zh: 现在，在我们...
- start: 2036.489
  end: 2041.832
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, question there?
  zh: 是的，有问题吗？
- start: 2041.992
  end: 2043.333
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's just too long.
  zh: 它太长了。
- start: 2043.333
  end: 2047.195
  speaker: unknown
  en: I mean, that is technically the name of it, but who wants to say that, you know?
  zh: 我的意思是，这确实是它的技术名称，但谁愿意说那么长的名字，你知道吗？
- start: 2047.976
  end: 2050.477
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Nicene Constantinopolitan Creed.
  zh: 尼西亚-君士坦丁堡信经。
- start: 2050.697
  end: 2052.959
  speaker: unknown
  en: I'm not even sure I'm saying it right.
  zh: 我甚至不确定我说得对不对。
- start: 2052.959
  end: 2055.861
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, it's just too cumbersome.
  zh: 是的，它太繁琐了。
- start: 2055.861
  end: 2059.062
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, as a shorthand, it comes to be called the Nicene Creed.
  zh: 所以，作为简称，它被称为尼西亚信经。
- start: 2059.062
  end: 2062.724
  speaker: unknown
  en: And you'll see when we look at it that the bulk of it comes from Nicaea, but...
  zh: 当我们看它的时候，你会发现它的大部分来自尼西亚，但是...
- start: 2065.017
  end: 2075.964
  speaker: unknown
  en: Alright, now the Creed was not the only thing they did at the Council of Nicaea, so I'm going to talk for a couple of minutes about other results of the Council of Nicaea.
  zh: 好的，现在信经并不是他们在尼西亚会议上做的唯一事情，所以我要花几分钟谈谈尼西亚会议的其他结果。
- start: 2077.165
  end: 2085.43
  speaker: unknown
  en: Remember, Constantine's priority was also to discuss how to calculate the date for Easter.
  zh: 记住，君士坦丁的优先事项还包括讨论如何计算复活节的日期。
- start: 2085.563
  end: 2090.69
  speaker: unknown
  en: Constantine wanted to get everybody on the same page with regard to the day of Easter.
  zh: 君士坦丁想让所有人在复活节的日期上达成一致。
- start: 2090.69
  end: 2099.261
  speaker: unknown
  en: He wanted everybody to be celebrating the day of Easter and you can see that it worked because now Christians all over the world celebrate Easter on the same day, right?
  zh: 他希望每个人都在同一天庆祝复活节，你可以看到这很有效，因为现在全世界的基督徒都在同一天庆祝复活节，对吧？
- start: 2099.902
  end: 2115.199
  speaker: unknown
  en: No. And so even though they tried  To make a rule that everyone had to celebrate Easter on the same day, and theoretically the issue was settled after the Council of Nicaea, it was not universally followed.
  zh: 不是的。尽管他们试图制定一个规则，要求每个人都在同一天庆祝复活节，理论上这个问题在尼西亚会议后已经解决了，但实际上并没有得到普遍遵守。
- start: 2115.199
  end: 2129.506
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so people continued doing it the different ways that they had done it, and so to this day, our Eastern brothers and sisters celebrate Easter on a different day most of the time.
  zh: 所以人们继续以不同的方式庆祝，直到今天，我们的东方弟兄姐妹大多数时候在不同的日子庆祝复活节。
- start: 2129.506
  end: 2132.927
  speaker: unknown
  en: Sometimes it's on the same day, but that's just a coincidence when that happens.
  zh: 有时候是在同一天，但那只是巧合。
- start: 2134.046
  end: 2141.471
  speaker: unknown
  en: In fact, this is going to be one of the issues that will eventually separate the Eastern and Western churches.
  zh: 事实上，这将成为最终分裂东西方教会的问题之一。
- start: 2141.471
  end: 2144.913
  speaker: unknown
  en: And I've got a whole lecture on that coming up later, so we'll get to it.
  zh: 我稍后会有一整个讲座讨论这个问题，所以我们会讲到的。
- start: 2144.913
  end: 2154.0
  speaker: unknown
  en: But this is going to be one of the things that will be kind of a bone of contention between East and West.
  zh: 但这将成为东西方之间争议的焦点之一。
- start: 2154.78
  end: 2170.258
  speaker: unknown
  en: What's important to note about this now is that when the Council of Nicaea  The Council decreed that the whole worldwide Church ought to celebrate Easter on the same day as the Church of Rome.
  zh: 现在需要注意的重要一点是，尼西亚会议规定全世界的教会都应该和罗马教会在同一天庆祝复活节。
- start: 2184.268
  end: 2189.77
  speaker: unknown
  en: Why is that significant?
  zh: 为什么这很重要？
- start: 2189.77
  end: 2200.533
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because this is another stepping stone on the way toward the bishop of Rome becoming the pope, the office of the papacy.
  zh: 因为这是罗马主教成为教宗、建立教宗制度的又一个垫脚石。
- start: 2200.533
  end: 2211.356
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is another stepping stone on that evolution of the see of Rome becoming the most important, and in some ways it already is.
  zh: 这是罗马教区成为最重要教区的演变过程中的另一个垫脚石，在某些方面它已经是最重要的了。
- start: 2213.271
  end: 2227.982
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, having said that, though, in reality, what's going on here is that the Church of Rome is one of the major city churches that is in the majority in terms of the date for Easter.
  zh: 不过，话虽如此，实际上这里发生的是，罗马教会是在复活节日期上处于多数派的主要城市教会之一。
- start: 2228.123
  end: 2239.231
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so the canon of Nicaea mentions that everyone should celebrate Easter on the same date as the majority of the churches do.
  zh: 所以尼西亚会议的规定提到，每个人都应该在与大多数教会相同的日期庆祝复活节。
- start: 2239.231
  end: 2242.954
  speaker: unknown
  en: And it lists a couple of them, but Rome is the first one listed.
  zh: 它列出了其中的几个，但罗马是第一个被列出的。
- start: 2243.375
  end: 2247.417
  speaker: unknown
  en: Rome has this priority of place.
  zh: 罗马有这种地位上的优先权。
- start: 2248.118
  end: 2257.745
  speaker: unknown
  en: This goes back to the beginning with the concept of apostolic succession and people like Ignatius saying we all need to agree with Rome.
  zh: 这可以追溯到使徒传承的概念的开始，像依纳爵这样的人说我们都需要与罗马保持一致。
- start: 2257.966
  end: 2261.329
  speaker: unknown
  en: That precedent is followed here.
  zh: 这里遵循了那个先例。
- start: 2261.329
  end: 2263.21
  speaker: unknown
  en: We all need to agree with Rome.
  zh: 我们都需要与罗马保持一致。
- start: 2263.21
  end: 2269.295
  speaker: unknown
  en: Rome is the first church listed among the majority of churches to celebrate Easter on that day.
  zh: 罗马是在那天庆祝复活节的大多数教会中首先被列出的教会。
- start: 2269.295
  end: 2277.091
  speaker: unknown
  en: You can see that  Some of the city churches, some of the churches, did not feel the need to comply.
  zh: 你可以看到，一些城市教会，一些教会，并不觉得有必要遵守。
- start: 2277.151
  end: 2282.733
  speaker: unknown
  en: And they simply didn't. And they just kept doing what they were doing and still needed to stay.
  zh: 他们就是没有遵守。他们只是继续做他们一直在做的事，并且仍然需要保持。
- start: 2283.574
  end: 2300.14
  speaker: unknown
  en: Another thing, and it's not a good question, that's totally fine, but another thing that the Council of Nicaea did was declare that the Novationists were in fact Orthodox and not heretics.
  zh: 另一件事，这不是一个好问题，没关系，但尼西亚会议做的另一件事是宣布诺瓦提安派实际上是正统的，而不是异端。
- start: 2300.28
  end: 2302.061
  speaker: unknown
  en: And the way this happened is this.
  zh: 这是发生的方式。
- start: 2304.593
  end: 2309.417
  speaker: unknown
  en: A Novatianist bishop was invited to the Council of Nicaea.
  zh: 一位诺瓦提安派主教被邀请参加尼西亚会议。
- start: 2309.417
  end: 2314.341
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now remember, the Novatianists have separated by this time, so they are a schismatic group.
  zh: 现在记住，诺瓦提安派在这个时候已经分离，所以他们是一个分裂的群体。
- start: 2314.502
  end: 2315.382
  speaker: unknown
  en: They're a separate group.
  zh: 他们是一个独立的群体。
- start: 2315.382
  end: 2318.445
  speaker: unknown
  en: They have their own bishops and their own churches.
  zh: 他们有自己的主教和自己的教会。
- start: 2318.775
  end: 2325.462
  speaker: unknown
  en: But at least one Novatianist bishop came to the Council of Nicaea and he did sign the creed.
  zh: 但至少有一位诺瓦提安派主教来到尼西亚会议，他确实签署了信经。
- start: 2325.462
  end: 2334.031
  speaker: unknown
  en: And there's no reason why he shouldn't have, because if he's a follower of Novatian, the idea of the father and son being consubstantial is perfectly natural to him.
  zh: 他没有理由不这样做，因为如果他是诺瓦提安的追随者，圣父和圣子同质的观念对他来说是完全自然的。
- start: 2334.912
  end: 2345.549
  speaker: unknown
  en: So what that says is that while the Donatists were considered heretics,  primarily for their sacramental theology.
  zh: 所以这说明，虽然多纳徒派被认为是异端，主要是因为他们的圣事神学。
- start: 2345.63
  end: 2347.03
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Novatianists were not.
  zh: 诺瓦提安派不是。
- start: 2347.03
  end: 2349.731
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Novatianists were considered orthodox.
  zh: 诺瓦提安派被认为是正统的。
- start: 2349.931
  end: 2365.158
  speaker: unknown
  en: In fact, the candidates of Nicaea state that if Novatianist bishops want to come back into the Catholic Church, they certainly can, as long as they agree to not be Novatianists anymore.
  zh: 事实上，尼西亚会议的规定指出，如果诺瓦提安派的主教想要回到大公教会，他们当然可以，只要他们同意不再做诺瓦提安派。
- start: 2365.158
  end: 2370.581
  speaker: unknown
  en: Basically, they have to agree to reconcile anyone whom the Catholic Church would reconcile.
  zh: 基本上，他们必须同意与大公教会愿意和解的任何人和解。
- start: 2370.581
  end: 2373.203
  speaker: unknown
  en: So they have to act like  Catholic bishops.
  zh: 所以他们必须像大公教会的主教一样行事。
- start: 2373.224
  end: 2376.745
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now again, notice how I keep using the word Catholic.
  zh: 现在再次注意，我是如何一直使用「大公」这个词的。
- start: 2377.085
  end: 2385.209
  speaker: unknown
  en: We started with this word meaning universal, but then it quickly has the connotation of a sort of exclusive universal.
  zh: 我们最初使用这个词是指普世的，但很快它就有了一种排他性的普世含义。
- start: 2385.209
  end: 2388.05
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, we're Catholic and you're not, right?
  zh: 换句话说，我们是大公教会的，而你们不是，对吧？
- start: 2388.091
  end: 2391.592
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so we've already seen how it got that connotation.
  zh: 所以我们已经看到它是如何获得这种含义的。
- start: 2391.592
  end: 2399.176
  speaker: unknown
  en: So there's the Catholic church, which is sort of the majority, the mainstream church.
  zh: 所以有大公教会，它是多数派，是主流教会。
- start: 2399.336
  end: 2401.637
  speaker: unknown
  en: And then there are these heretical groups.
  zh: 然后还有这些异端团体。
- start: 2402.188
  end: 2413.061
  speaker: unknown
  en: But now for the first time, with the Novationists, we have a group that's acknowledged by a worldwide council as Christian, but not Catholic.
  zh: 但现在，对于诺瓦提安派来说，我们第一次有了一个被世界性会议承认为基督徒但不是大公教会的团体。
- start: 2413.122
  end: 2416.726
  speaker: unknown
  en: So they're Orthodox, they're not heretics, but they're still schismatic.
  zh: 所以他们是正统的，他们不是异端，但他们仍然是分裂的。
- start: 2416.726
  end: 2419.029
  speaker: unknown
  en: So they're Christian, but not Catholic.
  zh: 所以他们是基督徒，但不是大公教会的。
- start: 2419.029
  end: 2420.971
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's the first time that's really happened.
  zh: 这是第一次真正发生这种情况。
- start: 2424.069
  end: 2433.935
  speaker: unknown
  en: With the Novationists, we have the first time that a group is officially recognized as Christian but not Catholic.
  zh: 对于诺瓦提安派，我们第一次有了一个被正式承认为基督徒但不是大公教会的团体。
- start: 2433.935
  end: 2448.965
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, it affirms and accepts the idea that there could be separated brethren, brothers and sisters, who are not under the same hierarchy and yet who are also not heretics.
  zh: 换句话说，它肯定并接受了这样一种观念：可能存在分离的弟兄姐妹，他们不在同一个等级制度下，但他们也不是异端。
- start: 2449.467
  end: 2455.429
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now this is going to call into question the idea of no salvation outside the church.
  zh: 现在这将质疑「教会之外无救恩」的观念。
- start: 2455.509
  end: 2463.333
  speaker: unknown
  en: because if they're not heretics, then that implies that their Christology leads to a soteriology that works.
  zh: 因为如果他们不是异端，那就意味着他们的基督论导致了一个有效的救恩论。
- start: 2463.674
  end: 2468.056
  speaker: unknown
  en: And yet, are they or are they not in the Church?
  zh: 然而，他们到底是不是在教会之内？
- start: 2468.056
  end: 2477.681
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's a question that doesn't really get answered, because eventually the Novationists will be somewhat persecuted by the mainstream, especially in the West.
  zh: 这是一个没有真正得到回答的问题，因为最终诺瓦提安派会受到主流的某种程度的迫害，尤其是在西方。
- start: 2479.202
  end: 2484.245
  speaker: unknown
  en: In the 5th century in the West they die out, and they die out in the East.
  zh: 在西方，他们在5世纪消失了，在东方也消失了。
- start: 2484.285
  end: 2489.628
  speaker: unknown
  en: by the 7th or 8th century or so.
  zh: 大约在7或8世纪左右。
- start: 2489.869
  end: 2498.934
  speaker: unknown
  en: And when I say they die out, it means that they stop being separate and sort of get folded back into the mainstream church.
  zh: 当我说他们消失时，意味着他们不再是分离的，而是某种程度上被重新纳入主流教会。
- start: 2500.855
  end: 2513.883
  speaker: unknown
  en: Another thing that happens after Nicaea is that apparently having non-bishops present was perceived as a little bit too chaotic.
  zh: 尼西亚会议之后发生的另一件事是，显然让非主教出席被认为有点太混乱了。
- start: 2514.293
  end: 2522.795
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so there were priests and even laypeople at the Council of Nicaea, and I mentioned there were confessors and there were hermits.
  zh: 所以在尼西亚会议上有神父甚至平信徒，我提到过有认信者和隐士。
- start: 2523.556
  end: 2530.778
  speaker: unknown
  en: But Nicaea is really the last major council that is going to allow priests and laypeople to be there.
  zh: 但尼西亚会议真的是最后一个允许神父和平信徒出席的重要会议。
- start: 2530.778
  end: 2536.6
  speaker: unknown
  en: For the most part it's going to be bishops only invited to the major councils.
  zh: 大多数情况下，只有主教被邀请参加重要的会议。
- start: 2538.32
  end: 2542.241
  speaker: unknown
  en: A couple of other rules that come up from the Council of Nicaea.
  zh: 尼西亚会议还产生了几条其他规则。
- start: 2542.402
  end: 2547.425
  speaker: unknown
  en: A prohibition  Against ordination right after baptism.
  zh: 禁止在洗礼后立即进行按立。
- start: 2547.945
  end: 2570.141
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, you may remember some stories from the earlier centuries of the Church where there is a figure who is so well respected and so well liked, or a person who is considered to be such a great speaker,  that when that person becomes Christian, he is baptized and then immediately ordained priest or even bishop.
  zh: 现在，你可能记得教会早期几个世纪的一些故事，其中有一些人物非常受尊敬和喜爱，或者被认为是如此出色的演说家，以至于当这个人成为基督徒时，他受洗后立即被按立为神父甚至主教。
- start: 2570.942
  end: 2578.128
  speaker: unknown
  en: And we see, well, it even happens with Ambrose of Milan after this.
  zh: 我们看到，嗯，这甚至在之后发生在米兰的安布罗修身上。
- start: 2578.348
  end: 2586.475
  speaker: unknown
  en: But there is a rule here that you don't ordain somebody to the clergy immediately after they got baptized.
  zh: 但这里有一条规则，就是不要在某人刚受洗后立即将其按立为神职人员。
- start: 2586.475
  end: 2590.858
  speaker: unknown
  en: There ought to be some time in between there, which sort of makes sense.
  zh: 中间应该有一段时间，这在某种程度上是有道理的。
- start: 2591.703
  end: 2603.413
  speaker: unknown
  en: There's a prohibition also against clergy having women in their homes who are not a mother, sister, or aunt.
  zh: 还有一条禁令，禁止神职人员在家中有非母亲、姐妹或姑姨的女性。
- start: 2605.175
  end: 2612.482
  speaker: unknown
  en: This is right at the time when there are questions about whether clergy are going to be expected to be celibate.
  zh: 这正是人们开始质疑神职人员是否应该保持独身的时候。
- start: 2612.482
  end: 2620.829
  speaker: unknown
  en: And as you know, in the East, priests,  are not going to be expected to be celibate.
  zh: 正如你所知，在东方，神父不被期望保持独身。
- start: 2620.829
  end: 2628.254
  speaker: unknown
  en: In the East, priests may marry and have a family, but the bishops are expected to be celibate.
  zh: 在东方，神父可以结婚成家，但主教被期望保持独身。
- start: 2628.475
  end: 2632.957
  speaker: unknown
  en: Normally in the East, the bishops come from the monastic orders.
  zh: 通常在东方，主教来自修道院。
- start: 2633.999
  end: 2641.444
  speaker: unknown
  en: So in the West, we're already in that place where there's an expectation of a celibate clergy.
  zh: 所以在西方，我们已经处于期望神职人员保持独身的阶段。
- start: 2641.444
  end: 2642.965
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's not always followed.
  zh: 这并不总是被遵守。
- start: 2643.004
  end: 2645.485
  speaker: unknown
  en: But that's becoming the expectation.
  zh: 但这正在成为一种期望。
- start: 2645.485
  end: 2660.05
  speaker: unknown
  en: But what's happening is in some places you have clergy, priests or even bishops who have housekeepers who live with them and basically they're a common-law wife or whatever.
  zh: 但正在发生的是，在一些地方，你有神职人员，神父甚至主教，他们有与他们同住的管家，基本上她们是事实上的妻子或其他什么。
- start: 2660.05
  end: 2672.655
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the Council of Nicaea makes a ruling that clergy may not have women living in their homes who are not a close relative, something that wouldn't arouse suspicion.
  zh: 所以尼西亚会议做出规定，神职人员不得在家中有非近亲的女性同住，这是为了避免引起怀疑。
- start: 2674.184
  end: 2682.15
  speaker: unknown
  en: Another rule is a prohibition against what's called the translation of bishops from one see to another.
  zh: 另一条规则是禁止所谓的主教从一个教区转移到另一个教区。
- start: 2682.49
  end: 2687.394
  speaker: unknown
  en: The see, you remember, is the city or the place of a bishop's authority.
  zh: 你记得，教区是指主教权威所在的城市或地方。
- start: 2687.654
  end: 2696.055
  speaker: unknown
  en: If you are the bishop of, let's say, Antioch,  That implies that you're from Antioch.
  zh: 如果你是，比如说，安提阿的主教，这意味着你来自安提阿。
- start: 2696.055
  end: 2711.361
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because remember, the whole underlying assumption here of apostolic succession is that your theology, you're the bishop, your theology comes from the previous bishops in that city.
  zh: 因为记住，使徒传承的整个基本假设是，你的神学，你是主教，你的神学来自那个城市的前任主教们。
- start: 2711.381
  end: 2716.644
  speaker: unknown
  en: That it comes down through the succession of bishops in a particular city.
  zh: 它是通过特定城市的主教传承下来的。
- start: 2716.644
  end: 2720.165
  speaker: unknown
  en: So if you're the bishop of Antioch, it means you're from Antioch.
  zh: 所以如果你是安提阿的主教，这意味着你来自安提阿。
- start: 2720.585
  end: 2725.514
  speaker: unknown
  en: So this rule prohibits  Bishops from moving from one seat to another.
  zh: 所以这条规则禁止主教从一个教区转移到另一个教区。
- start: 2725.514
  end: 2727.837
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, the point there is really twofold.
  zh: 现在，这里的要点实际上有两个。
- start: 2727.837
  end: 2735.547
  speaker: unknown
  en: One, it's, I think, to preserve the concept of apostolic succession, to preserve that pedigree of theology.
  zh: 一个是，我认为，为了保持使徒传承的概念，保持那种神学的血统。
- start: 2735.547
  end: 2755.871
  speaker: unknown
  en: But also, it's to prevent clergy  from getting ideas about being upwardly mobile in the sense of, wow, you know, I should be thankful to be the Bishop of Evanston, but I'd really like to be the Bishop of Chicago because, boy, wouldn't that be a primo gig, right?
  zh: 但同时，这也是为了防止神职人员产生向上流动的想法，比如说，哇，你知道，我应该感恩能成为埃文斯顿的主教，但我真的想成为芝加哥的主教，因为，天哪，那不是一个顶级的职位吗，对吧？
- start: 2755.871
  end: 2766.158
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the idea is you're not supposed to have your eyes on other seas, which is kind of an interesting pun, but you get the idea.
  zh: 所以这个想法是你不应该把眼光放在其他教区上，这是一个有趣的双关语，但你明白这个意思。
- start: 2766.874
  end: 2780.797
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, even though the Council of Nicaea decrees that bishops may not translate from one see to another, watch what happens, because it's going to happen real soon.
  zh: 现在，尽管尼西亚会议规定主教不得从一个教区转移到另一个教区，但要看看接下来会发生什么，因为这很快就会发生。
- start: 2782.618
  end: 2790.22
  speaker: unknown
  en: Another rule is that bishops must respect the excommunications of other bishops.
  zh: 另一条规则是主教必须尊重其他主教的逐出教会决定。
- start: 2790.578
  end: 2797.44
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now this is an important rule, because we have seen this problem ever since we talked about Hippolytus in Rome, right?
  zh: 这是一条重要的规则，因为自从我们谈论罗马的希波吕托以来，我们就一直看到这个问题，对吧？
- start: 2799.281
  end: 2814.307
  speaker: unknown
  en: And now, more recently we saw it, with Alexandria, the bishop of Alexandria excommunicates Arius, but he can just go to Nicomedia and the place is full of his friends, or Antioch or whatever.
  zh: 现在，最近我们看到了，亚历山大的主教将亚略逐出教会，但他可以直接去尼哥米底亚，那里到处都是他的朋友，或者去安提阿或其他地方。
- start: 2814.307
  end: 2825.208
  speaker: unknown
  en: So if one bishop does not respect the excommunications of another bishop,  It renders excommunication sort of ineffective as a method of discipline, right?
  zh: 所以如果一个主教不尊重另一个主教的逐出教会决定，这就使得逐出教会作为一种惩戒方法变得无效，对吧？
- start: 2825.329
  end: 2827.992
  speaker: unknown
  en: If you can just go to another city, then what's the point?
  zh: 如果你可以直接去另一个城市，那还有什么意义呢？
- start: 2827.992
  end: 2828.853
  speaker: unknown
  en: Is that a question, then?
  zh: 那是一个问题吗？
- start: 2828.853
  end: 2829.394
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yes, sir.
  zh: 是的，先生。
- start: 2829.394
  end: 2835.501
  speaker: unknown
  en: I have a question in regards to excommunication, and I've been thinking about this the past couple of weeks.
  zh: 我有一个关于逐出教会的问题，过去几周我一直在思考这个问题。
- start: 2835.501
  end: 2839.165
  speaker: unknown
  en: Are there still excommunications today?
  zh: 今天还有逐出教会的做法吗？
- start: 2839.76
  end: 2844.322
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yes, the question was, are there still excommunications today?
  zh: 是的，问题是，今天还有逐出教会的做法吗？
- start: 2844.322
  end: 2847.423
  speaker: unknown
  en: The answer is yes, but it depends on the denomination.
  zh: 答案是肯定的，但这取决于教派。
- start: 2847.463
  end: 2856.047
  speaker: unknown
  en: Some denominations do it, and some don't. In the ancient denominations, like Roman Catholic, you absolutely can get excommunicated.
  zh: 一些教派会这样做，一些则不会。在古老的教派中，比如罗马公教会，你绝对可能被逐出教会。
- start: 2856.047
  end: 2874.827
  speaker: unknown
  en: Every once in a while, if you watch the news, there will be an item about some Roman Catholic theology professor  who starts teaching something or writes a book and the Vatican gets a hold of it and says, ah, this is outside the bounds.
  zh: 偶尔，如果你看新闻，会有一些关于罗马公教会神学教授的报道，他们开始教授某些东西或写了一本书，梵蒂冈得知后说，啊，这超出了界限。
- start: 2875.548
  end: 2880.449
  speaker: unknown
  en: And they will say, you know, you need to stop teaching this or recant or something.
  zh: 他们会说，你知道，你需要停止教授这个或者收回言论之类的。
- start: 2880.449
  end: 2883.649
  speaker: unknown
  en: And if the person refuses, they can be excommunicated.
  zh: 如果这个人拒绝，他们可能会被逐出教会。
- start: 2883.649
  end: 2887.51
  speaker: unknown
  en: And once excommunicated, what happens to that person?
  zh: 一旦被逐出教会，那个人会怎么样？
- start: 2887.51
  end: 2889.65
  speaker: unknown
  en: I know back then it was outlawed.
  zh: 我知道那时候这是被禁止的。
- start: 2889.75
  end: 2891.311
  speaker: unknown
  en: They were outlawed.
  zh: 他们被视为非法。
- start: 2891.311
  end: 2893.991
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, you could be exiled or whatever.
  zh: 是的，你可能会被流放或其他什么的。
- start: 2893.991
  end: 2900.05
  speaker: unknown
  en: But today, excommunication means what it originally meant  Excluded from Communion.
  zh: 但今天，逐出教会意味着它最初的含义：被排除在圣餐之外。
- start: 2900.05
  end: 2902.152
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the idea is that you're excommunicated.
  zh: 所以这个想法是你被逐出教会。
- start: 2902.152
  end: 2908.115
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's not as though you're kicked out of the church entirely, like you can't show up in church ever.
  zh: 这并不意味着你被完全踢出教会，比如你永远不能出现在教会里。
- start: 2908.576
  end: 2912.899
  speaker: unknown
  en: But you're not expected to go up to receive the sacraments.
  zh: 但你不被期望去领受圣事。
- start: 2913.219
  end: 2924.927
  speaker: unknown
  en: You are excluded from the sacrament of communion, which means that if you want to be reconciled with the table of the Eucharist, you need to be reconciled with your bishop.
  zh: 你被排除在圣餐圣事之外，这意味着如果你想与圣餐桌和好，你需要与你的主教和好。
- start: 2925.303
  end: 2935.211
  speaker: unknown
  en: and because the bishops hold the authority over that, and so you need to do whatever the authority says you need to do in order to be reconciled again.
  zh: 因为主教对此拥有权威，所以你需要做权威说你需要做的任何事情，以便再次和好。
- start: 2936.873
  end: 2939.415
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so that's kind of the bottom line.
  zh: 所以这就是底线。
- start: 2939.415
  end: 2964.456
  speaker: unknown
  en: There have been occasions, and again, sometimes you'll hear about this in the news, where a politician  The bishop of the area where the politician is from will excommunicate that politician and say, until you stop saying this, this, this, you are not welcome at the table of the Eucharist.
  zh: 有时候会发生这样的情况，你也会在新闻中听到，一个政治家所在地区的主教会将那个政治家逐出教会，并说，除非你停止说这个、这个、这个，否则你不受欢迎参加圣餐。
- start: 2967.959
  end: 2979.725
  speaker: unknown
  en: In regards to those at the church where there have been those scandals, have they resulted in excommunication?
  zh: 关于那些在教会中发生丑闻的人，他们是否被逐出教会了？
- start: 2979.725
  end: 2986.57
  speaker: unknown
  en: I don't know if all of them or some of them have resulted in excommunication based on their actions.
  zh: 我不知道他们是否全部或部分因为他们的行为而被逐出教会。
- start: 2986.57
  end: 2991.153
  speaker: unknown
  en: I know we were talking about what they teach and that sort of thing, but the action.
  zh: 我知道我们在讨论他们教导的内容之类的事情，但行为也是。
- start: 2991.714
  end: 3000.92
  speaker: unknown
  en: Behavior certainly can result in excommunication, but usually excommunication is reserved for the unrepentant.
  zh: 行为当然可能导致被逐出教会，但通常逐出教会是针对那些不悔改的人。
- start: 3001.04
  end: 3012.408
  speaker: unknown
  en: In other words, so if you commit a sin, whatever the sin is, if it's serious enough and the church comes to you and says,  You have excommunicated yourself by your actions.
  zh: 换句话说，如果你犯了罪，无论是什么罪，如果它足够严重，教会来找你说，你通过你的行为已经把自己逐出教会了。
- start: 3012.408
  end: 3018.451
  speaker: unknown
  en: Some of the scandals that you're thinking of would clearly fit in that category.
  zh: 你想到的一些丑闻显然属于这一类。
- start: 3018.451
  end: 3020.992
  speaker: unknown
  en: You have excommunicated yourself by your actions.
  zh: 你通过你的行为已经把自己逐出教会了。
- start: 3021.032
  end: 3028.356
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now at that point, when a person gets caught, they are often humbled and usually repentant.
  zh: 在那个时候，当一个人被抓到时，他们通常会感到羞愧并且通常会悔改。
- start: 3029.007
  end: 3090.532
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's a little more serious in countries where  If I'm excommunicated, I have no place to be buried in, I have no right  My marriage, my properties are illegal.
  zh: 在一些国家，这会更加严重，如果我被逐出教会，我没有地方埋葬，我没有权利，我的婚姻、我的财产都是非法的。
- start: 3090.653
  end: 3095.777
  speaker: unknown
  en: It depends what country is it and how are the rules.
  zh: 这取决于是哪个国家以及规则是什么。
- start: 3095.777
  end: 3098.699
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, most of Middle Eastern countries are the same.
  zh: 嗯，大多数中东国家都是一样的。
- start: 3098.699
  end: 3099.8
  speaker: unknown
  en: I'm from Syria.
  zh: 我来自叙利亚。
- start: 3102.486
  end: 3103.727
  speaker: unknown
  en: I don't want to go there.
  zh: 我不想去那里。
- start: 3103.727
  end: 3112.657
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, in most cases you're talking about the Christian context, and I think that there would be similarities in Greece, but again, you know, notice...
  zh: 嗯，在大多数情况下你说的是基督教的背景，我认为在希腊也会有相似之处，但是再次注意...
- start: 3112.657
  end: 3119.584
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's Ottoman Empire rule, they left this thing, and it continues for the last couple of centuries.
  zh: 这是奥斯曼帝国的规则，他们留下了这个东西，并在过去几个世纪一直延续。
- start: 3119.704
  end: 3144.394
  speaker: unknown
  en: Well, this tradition goes back to Constantine, and we talked about how in the East there is going to be more of a connection between church and state, and with the assumption that in a sense the state rules over the church,  Now that can work to the church's advantage sometimes, when the state supports the church, but it can be a disadvantage too.
  zh: 嗯，这个传统可以追溯到君士坦丁，我们讨论过在东方教会和国家之间会有更多的联系，并且假设在某种意义上国家统治教会。现在，当国家支持教会时，这有时可能对教会有利，但也可能是一个劣势。
- start: 3144.655
  end: 3148.239
  speaker: unknown
  en: In the West, we're going to see it's more church over state.
  zh: 在西方，我们会看到更多的是教会凌驾于国家之上。
- start: 3148.36
  end: 3150.021
  speaker: unknown
  en: In the East, it's more state over church.
  zh: 在东方，更多的是国家凌驾于教会之上。
- start: 3150.021
  end: 3162.193
  speaker: unknown
  en: But in your countries where you have a sort of national church,  Minorities or faith communities are represented by the church or whatever faith community it is.
  zh: 但在你们那些有某种国家教会的国家，少数群体或信仰团体是由教会或任何信仰团体来代表的。
- start: 3162.193
  end: 3166.717
  speaker: unknown
  en: And your life is organized around that representation that you have.
  zh: 你的生活是围绕着你所拥有的那种代表组织的。
- start: 3166.717
  end: 3168.838
  speaker: unknown
  en: So it is quite serious.
  zh: 所以这是相当严重的。
- start: 3182.711
  end: 3195.803
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yeah, and like that situation, in the early church, remember that not only was there a belief that there's no salvation outside the church, so if you're excommunicated, you're also outside the kingdom.
  zh: 是的，就像那种情况，在早期教会，记住不仅有一种信念认为教会之外没有救恩，所以如果你被逐出教会，你也在天国之外。
- start: 3195.803
  end: 3209.462
  speaker: unknown
  en: You're that guy without the wedding garment  Not only are you that guy, but you risk not getting a Christian burial if you should die in a state of excommunication.
  zh: 你就是那个没有婚礼礼服的人。不仅如此，如果你在被逐出教会的状态下死亡，你还有可能得不到基督教的葬礼。
- start: 3209.462
  end: 3211.824
  speaker: unknown
  en: These things were very serious.
  zh: 这些事情是非常严重的。
- start: 3213.845
  end: 3214.506
  speaker: unknown
  en: Yes, go ahead.
  zh: 是的，请说。
- start: 3214.506
  end: 3217.548
  speaker: unknown
  en: That is a great question.
  zh: 这是一个很好的问题。
- start: 3238.635
  end: 3242.298
  speaker: unknown
  en: That's a great question, and I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer it.
  zh: 这是一个很好的问题，我不确定我有资格回答它。
- start: 3242.298
  end: 3261.313
  speaker: unknown
  en: In case you didn't hear it, the question was, is this idea of excommunication somewhat based on the idea of the Greek city, where you have to be a good citizen, but you have to belong to some city, and if you move from one city to the next, you might need a letter of reference or something like that.
  zh: 如果你没听到，问题是，这种逐出教会的想法是否在某种程度上基于希腊城邦的理念，在那里你必须是一个好公民，但你必须属于某个城市，如果你从一个城市搬到另一个城市，你可能需要一封推荐信或类似的东西。
- start: 3261.313
  end: 3272.443
  speaker: unknown
  en: Even to this day, if you change churches,  Where you register, they might ask for a letter from your previous church.
  zh: 即使到今天，如果你换教会，在你注册的地方，他们可能会要求你提供前一个教会的信。
- start: 3272.543
  end: 3289.492
  speaker: unknown
  en: To answer your question, though, I don't know how far I would go with this, because we do actually have the precedent for excommunication in 1 Corinthians 5, where Paul talks about distancing yourself from the unrepentant sinner.
  zh: 不过，要回答你的问题，我不知道我会在这个问题上走多远，因为我们实际上在哥林多前书5章中有逐出教会的先例，保罗在那里谈到要远离不悔改的罪人。
- start: 3290.013
  end: 3292.414
  speaker: unknown
  en: Theologically, the precedent comes from there.
  zh: 从神学上讲，这个先例来自那里。
- start: 3293.289
  end: 3298.651
  speaker: unknown
  en: Would you want to do a new Testament paper on whether Paul got the idea from the Greek idea?
  zh: 你想写一篇新约论文，探讨保罗是否从希腊思想中得到这个想法吗？
- start: 3298.651
  end: 3302.311
  speaker: unknown
  en: I don't know, but that's really what it goes back to.
  zh: 我不知道，但这确实是它的源头。
- start: 3302.832
  end: 3303.892
  speaker: unknown
  en: Good question.
  zh: 好问题。
- start: 3304.452
  end: 3335.75
  speaker: unknown
  en: That actually may go back to more stoic ethical with Seneca, who was one of Paul's contemporaries in terms of when you support, you know, when you follow the virtuous life, you're supporting the empire, but you're also supporting  You know, we talked about the debate over the sacraments after the persecutions and the controversy over the laps.
  zh: 这实际上可能追溯到更多的斯多葛派伦理，比如塞内卡，他是保罗的同时代人，当你支持，你知道，当你遵循有德行的生活时，你是在支持帝国，但你也在支持...你知道，我们讨论过迫害后关于圣事的辩论和对失足者的争议。
- start: 3336.431
  end: 3345.078
  speaker: unknown
  en: And, you know, the question sort of becomes, who are we helping by excommunicating someone?
  zh: 你知道，问题就变成了，通过逐出某人，我们在帮助谁？
- start: 3346.367
  end: 3350.99
  speaker: unknown
  en: Are we keeping the church pure by excommunicating the impure?
  zh: 我们是否通过逐出不纯洁的人来保持教会的纯洁？
- start: 3350.99
  end: 3359.576
  speaker: unknown
  en: Or are we really helping the person by excommunicating them and showing them just how serious this sin is or this heresy is?
  zh: 或者我们是否真的通过逐出他们来帮助这个人，并向他们展示这个罪或这个异端有多严重？
- start: 3359.916
  end: 3363.699
  speaker: unknown
  en: It's a little bit of a two sides of the same coin, maybe.
  zh: 这可能有点像是一枚硬币的两面。
- start: 3363.699
  end: 3365.98
  speaker: unknown
  en: At least that's what they would argue.
  zh: 至少这是他们会争论的。
- start: 3366.881
  end: 3373.246
  speaker: unknown
  en: Okay, so there's one more thing I want to mention as a result of the Council of Nicaea, and then we're going to take a break.
  zh: 好的，关于尼西亚会议的结果，我还想提一件事，然后我们就休息一下。
- start: 3375.473
  end: 3381.315
  speaker: unknown
  en: As you know, we talked about the evolution of the office of the bishop, the episcopacy, right?
  zh: 你知道，我们讨论过主教职位的演变，即主教制，对吧？
- start: 3381.396
  end: 3386.518
  speaker: unknown
  en: And you know about the concept of one bishop per city.
  zh: 你也知道每个城市一位主教的概念。
- start: 3387.098
  end: 3398.723
  speaker: unknown
  en: And you know that we now have a situation where there is more easy communication between bishops, between cities.
  zh: 你知道我们现在的情况是，主教之间、城市之间的沟通更加容易。
- start: 3398.988
  end: 3406.251
  speaker: unknown
  en: But that also means that there is more opportunity for disagreement between bishops and between cities.
  zh: 但这也意味着主教之间、城市之间有更多机会产生分歧。
- start: 3407.252
  end: 3418.256
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, going on the assumption of apostolic succession, we have a tradition that, at least in theory, everyone is supposed to agree with Rome because Rome is the church of Peter.
  zh: 现在，基于使徒传承的假设，我们有一个传统，至少在理论上，每个人都应该与罗马保持一致，因为罗马是彼得的教会。
- start: 3418.456
  end: 3421.237
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, Antioch also claims Peter.
  zh: 现在，安提阿也声称与彼得有关。
- start: 3423.479
  end: 3435.621
  speaker: unknown
  en: But what the Council of Nicaea did was it began to define the hierarchy of the major metropolitan cities.
  zh: 但尼西亚会议所做的是开始定义主要大都市的等级制度。
- start: 3436.622
  end: 3450.024
  speaker: unknown
  en: And so, at the Council of Nicaea, we have the most influential or the most authoritative cities defined.
  zh: 因此，在尼西亚会议上，我们定义了最有影响力或最具权威的城市。
- start: 3450.805
  end: 3454.207
  speaker: unknown
  en: And the number one city is Rome.
  zh: 第一位的城市是罗马。
- start: 3454.368
  end: 3466.836
  speaker: unknown
  en: So, we have Rome at the top of the list, and again, this is no small step on that trajectory of the bishop of Rome, the office of the bishop of Rome becoming the papacy as we know it.
  zh: 所以，我们把罗马放在列表的顶部，再次强调，这在罗马主教、罗马主教职位成为我们所知的教宗制度的轨迹上并不是一个小步骤。
- start: 3468.678
  end: 3482.372
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, after Rome, the next two most important cities are going to be Alexandria,  And Antioch.
  zh: 现在，在罗马之后，接下来两个最重要的城市将是亚历山大和安提阿。
- start: 3484.374
  end: 3489.678
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, as you know, Rome is in the west, Alexandria and Antioch are in the east.
  zh: 现在，你知道，罗马在西方，亚历山大和安提阿在东方。
- start: 3495.062
  end: 3505.63
  speaker: unknown
  en: The next metropolitan that is mentioned at this point is, and maybe only for sentimental reasons, Jerusalem.
  zh: 在这一点上提到的下一个大都市是耶路撒冷，可能只是出于情感原因。
- start: 3514.908
  end: 3546.674
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, we also have a couple of other important cities who are on the list, and I would argue that Eusebius of Caesarea is one of them, Caesarea, probably more important than Jerusalem, though Jerusalem has some authority as sort of mother church, but both of these  are not as important as Alexandria and Antioch.
  zh: 现在，我们还有几个其他重要的城市在列表上，我认为凯撒利亚的优西比乌就是其中之一，凯撒利亚可能比耶路撒冷更重要，尽管耶路撒冷作为某种母教会有一些权威，但这两个都不如亚历山大和安提阿重要。
- start: 3547.775
  end: 3558.823
  speaker: unknown
  en: But the problem here for them is that Alexandria and Antioch, being the two most important cities in the East, kind of cancel each other out, especially when they argue with each other.
  zh: 但对他们来说，问题在于亚历山大和安提阿作为东方最重要的两个城市，某种程度上相互抵消了，特别是当他们相互争论时。
- start: 3560.665
  end: 3568.351
  speaker: unknown
  en: The other city that is on the list of most important cities is Carthage.
  zh: 在最重要城市列表上的另一个城市是迦太基。
- start: 3569.58
  end: 3576.744
  speaker: unknown
  en: Carthage is the second city of the West, it's in North Africa, but it is clearly not as important as Rome.
  zh: 迦太基是西方的第二大城市，它在北非，但显然不如罗马重要。
- start: 3577.865
  end: 3583.788
  speaker: unknown
  en: Now, in the next hour, we're going to talk about the Council of Constantinople.
  zh: 现在，在下一个小时，我们将讨论君士坦丁堡会议。
- start: 3584.769
  end: 3596.676
  speaker: unknown
  en: I already told you that Constantine will create a new city, Nova Roma, New Rome, which comes to be called Constantinople, or Constantine City, right?
  zh: 我已经告诉过你，君士坦丁将创建一个新城市，新罗马，后来被称为君士坦丁堡，或君士坦丁城，对吧？
- start: 3598.306
  end: 3603.189
  speaker: unknown
  en: Why wasn't the Council of Nicaea just held in Constantinople?
  zh: 为什么尼西亚会议不直接在君士坦丁堡举行呢？
- start: 3605.892
  end: 3608.574
  speaker: unknown
  en: I mean, if that's going to be the new capital, right, why not just have it there?
  zh: 我的意思是，如果那将成为新的首都，对吧，为什么不直接在那里举行呢？
- start: 3608.574
  end: 3611.256
  speaker: unknown
  en: Because it wasn't built yet.
  zh: 因为它还没有建成。
- start: 3611.256
  end: 3628.508
  speaker: unknown
  en: The Council of Nicaea was in 325. The city of Constantinople wasn't really dedicated until like 330. Not 330 in the afternoon, but the year, 330. And so it wasn't there yet, really.
  zh: 尼西亚会议是在325年。君士坦丁堡城直到330年左右才真正奉献。不是下午3:30，而是330年。所以它当时还没有真正存在。
- start: 3628.735
  end: 3636.28
  speaker: unknown
  en: But when we come to the next Ecumenical Council, it will be held in Constantinople.
  zh: 但当我们来到下一次大公会议时，它将在君士坦丁堡举行。
- start: 3636.481
  end: 3642.345
  speaker: unknown
  en: So the Council of Constantinople is going to be in the year 381, and we'll talk about that in the next hour.
  zh: 所以君士坦丁堡会议将在381年举行，我们将在下一个小时讨论这个。
- start: 3642.525
  end: 3652.912
  speaker: unknown
  en: But at the Council of Constantinople, Constantinople as a city will be added to the list of the most important metropolitans.
  zh: 但在君士坦丁堡会议上，君士坦丁堡作为一个城市将被添加到最重要的大都市列表中。
- start: 3653.853
  end: 3668.41
  speaker: unknown
  en: And it will be added at the top of the list of the Eastern  So it's going to edge out Alexandria and Antioch because, after all, it's the capital.
  zh: 它将被添加到东方城市列表的顶部，所以它将超越亚历山大和安提阿，因为毕竟它是首都。
- start: 3668.45
  end: 3686.858
  speaker: unknown
  en: But, even though the Council of Constantinople is held in Constantinople, and even though it is now the new imperial capital, the Council will clarify that the city of Constantinople is second after Rome in authority.
  zh: 但是，尽管君士坦丁堡会议在君士坦丁堡举行，尽管它现在是新的帝国首都，会议将明确指出君士坦丁堡城在权威上仅次于罗马。
- start: 3686.858
  end: 3706.407
  speaker: unknown
  en: So Rome still maintains  So, and if that's not enough, there's five metropolitan seas in the east and only two in the west.
  zh: 所以罗马仍然保持...而且，如果这还不够，东方有五个大都市教区，而西方只有两个。
- start: 3706.667
  end: 3712.769
  speaker: unknown
  en: And in the west, Rome really has no competition from Carthage, though Carthage is important.
  zh: 在西方，罗马实际上没有来自迦太基的竞争，尽管迦太基很重要。
- start: 3715.563
  end: 3728.245
  speaker: unknown
  en: You can see how this falls out and how Rome becomes officially the seat of highest authority, the metropolitan at the top of the list.
  zh: 你可以看到这是如何发展的，以及罗马如何正式成为最高权威的所在地，成为列表顶部的大都市。
- start: 3729.746
  end: 3733.846
  speaker: unknown
  en: Okay, now let's see if there are any last-minute questions before we take a break.
  zh: 好的，现在让我们看看在休息之前是否还有任何最后的问题。
- start: 3738.107
  end: 3748.308
  speaker: unknown
  en: Okay, then let's take a break and let's come back at  5 minutes to 8 which is a little over 15 minutes.
  zh: 好的，那么让我们休息一下，在7点55分回来，也就是15分钟多一点。
