- start: 0.289
  end: 8.055
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So let me just talk a little bit about the situation.
  zh: 让我简单谈谈当前的情况。
- start: 11.739
  end: 17.944
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: We're in an economic recession, right?
  zh: 我们正处于经济衰退期，对吧？
- start: 18.164
  end: 22.127
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Confidence in the finances are at an all-time low.
  zh: 对财政的信心处于历史最低点。
- start: 23.689
  end: 27.812
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Way too much money has been spent on wars in the Middle East.
  zh: 在中东战争上花费了太多的钱。
- start: 29.062
  end: 34.063
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Foreigners are crossing the borders at an increasing rate.
  zh: 外国人以越来越快的速度跨越边境。
- start: 34.063
  end: 43.905
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And you have an ideological battle going on between progressives and those who want to promote more traditional values.
  zh: 而且进步派和那些想要推广更多传统价值观的人之间正在进行意识形态的斗争。
- start: 45.385
  end: 51.606
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: I've just described the Roman Empire in the 3rd century.
  zh: 我刚才描述的是三世纪的罗马帝国。
- start: 52.026
  end: 53.466
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: That's what was going on.
  zh: 那就是当时发生的情况。
- start: 53.466
  end: 56.227
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: That's the situation in the 3rd century.
  zh: 这就是三世纪的情况。
- start: 57.709
  end: 68.935
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: In fact, the economic recession is so bad because the Roman emperors have been promising all these bonuses to the soldiers and haven't been able to pay them that they've devalued the coins.
  zh: 事实上，经济衰退如此严重是因为罗马皇帝一直承诺给士兵们各种奖金，但无法支付，所以他们贬值了货币。
- start: 69.035
  end: 83.823
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So instead of having a gold coin that's worth its weight in gold, literally, you have a coin where the gold is cut with a less precious metal but the monetary value remains the same.
  zh: 所以，不是拥有一枚字面意义上价值等同于其重量的金币，而是拥有一枚金被不太贵重的金属掺杂但货币价值保持不变的硬币。
- start: 83.823
  end: 86.064
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So how do people react to that?
  zh: 那么人们对此有何反应？
- start: 86.497
  end: 110.52
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So the third century,  In the middle of the 3rd century, the city of Rome had just celebrated its 1,000 year anniversary.
  zh: 所以在三世纪，在三世纪中叶，罗马城刚刚庆祝了它的一千周年。
- start: 110.52
  end: 121.043
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: According to tradition, the traditional date of the founding of Rome is 753 BCE. 753 BCE, 1,000 years later is 247 CE. So there's all this enthusiasm for tradition.
  zh: 根据传统，罗马建城的传统日期是公元前753年。公元前753年后的1000年是公元247年。因此，人们对传统充满热情。
- start: 129.261
  end: 135.906
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: for traditional values, which of course means paganism, Greco-Roman mythologies.
  zh: 对传统价值观的热情，这当然意味着异教信仰，希腊罗马神话。
- start: 136.346
  end: 143.772
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And you've got the ongoing wars with the Persians, you've got the barbarians pressing on every frontier.
  zh: 你还有与波斯人的持续战争，有蛮族在每个边境施压。
- start: 144.993
  end: 153.239
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And a new emperor comes to the throne in the year 249, and his name is Decius.
  zh: 在公元249年，一位新皇帝登上王位，他的名字是德修。
- start: 155.521
  end: 170.821
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And Decius' platform, if you will,  His vision for his reigning as emperor is all about restoring Rome to its glory days, bringing back the golden age.
  zh: 德修的纲领，如果你愿意这么说的话，他作为皇帝统治的愿景就是要恢复罗马的辉煌岁月，带回黄金时代。
- start: 171.301
  end: 175.462
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And that would mean restoring the old religion.
  zh: 这意味着要恢复旧的宗教。
- start: 175.462
  end: 179.243
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So, old Theseus is up there saying, give me that old-time religion.
  zh: 所以，老忒修斯在那里说，给我那古老的宗教。
- start: 179.543
  end: 185.064
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But for him, the old-time religion is the mythologies of the Greco-Roman pantheon.
  zh: 但对他来说，古老的宗教就是希腊罗马万神殿的神话。
- start: 186.983
  end: 190.824
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so to that end, Decius issued an edict.
  zh: 为此，德修颁布了一道敕令。
- start: 190.824
  end: 195.886
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: You know what an edict is, it's an imperial pronouncement.
  zh: 你知道敕令是什么，它是一种皇帝的宣告。
- start: 195.886
  end: 208.609
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: He issued an edict mandating that every citizen of the empire, every inhabitant of the empire, must sacrifice to the god Jupiter.
  zh: 他颁布了一道敕令，要求帝国的每个公民，帝国的每个居民，都必须向朱庇特神献祭。
- start: 210.49
  end: 215.451
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Refusal to make the sacrifice would be taken as an act of treason.
  zh: 拒绝献祭将被视为叛国行为。
- start: 215.828
  end: 235.384
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And this began late in the year 249 B.E. This began the first real empire-wide enforced persecution of the church.
  zh: 这始于公元249年末。这开始了第一次真正的全帝国范围内对教会的强制迫害。
- start: 235.725
  end: 235.965
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 235.965
  end: 241.389
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Because Christians aren't supposed to make sacrifices to the god Jupiter.
  zh: 因为基督徒不应该向朱庇特神献祭。
- start: 243.274
  end: 244.274
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: How did we get here?
  zh: 我们是如何走到这一步的？
- start: 244.274
  end: 250.376
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: I want to back up a little bit and just sort of skim over the history of persecution.
  zh: 我想稍微回顾一下，简单浏览一下迫害的历史。
- start: 251.517
  end: 253.578
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So, I'm going to rewind just a little bit.
  zh: 所以，我要稍微回顾一下。
- start: 253.578
  end: 256.098
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Some of this we've touched on already.
  zh: 我们已经谈到了其中的一些内容。
- start: 256.098
  end: 260.94
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And some of this you either have read or you will read this week.
  zh: 其中一些内容你要么已经读过，要么会在本周阅读。
- start: 261.82
  end: 266.602
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But, you know, I want to just sort of back up and show you how we get to this point.
  zh: 但是，你知道，我想稍微回溯一下，向你展示我们是如何到达这一点的。
- start: 266.602
  end: 270.323
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Because persecution is not new in the middle of the third century, is it?
  zh: 因为迫害在三世纪中叶并不是新鲜事，对吧？
- start: 270.583
  end: 284.085
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: In fact, it goes all the way back  to Jesus' crucifixion, and to the sort of blackmail that's used to get Pilate to crucify Jesus.
  zh: 事实上，它可以追溯到耶稣被钉十字架，以及用来迫使彼拉多钉死耶稣的那种勒索。
- start: 284.085
  end: 286.386
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: What do they say to Pilate?
  zh: 他们对彼拉多说了什么？
- start: 286.386
  end: 289.968
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: If you don't do this, you are no friend of Caesar.
  zh: 「如果你不这样做，你就不是凯撒的朋友。」
- start: 290.548
  end: 295.13
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so it comes down to a choice, Christ or Caesar.
  zh: 所以这归结为一个选择，基督还是凯撒。
- start: 295.536
  end: 302.9
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: and to be for Caesar is to be against Christ, and to be for Christ is to be against Caesar.
  zh: 支持凯撒就是反对基督，支持基督就是反对凯撒。
- start: 302.9
  end: 318.108
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And it's not a coincidence that Jesus preached something called the Kingdom of God, which you could just as easily translate the Empire of God, and that that was seen as something opposed to the Empire of the Romans.
  zh: 耶稣宣讲所谓的神的国度并非巧合，你也可以将其翻译为神的帝国，而这被视为与罗马帝国对立的东西。
- start: 319.549
  end: 329.022
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And you may also know that from early on the emperors  started treating themselves as though they were divine.
  zh: 你可能也知道，从早期开始，皇帝们就开始把自己当作神一样对待。
- start: 329.022
  end: 330.842
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: I forgot to turn on my microphone.
  zh: 我忘了打开麦克风。
- start: 332.303
  end: 334.464
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Started treating themselves as though they were divine.
  zh: 开始把自己当作神一样对待。
- start: 334.464
  end: 335.224
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: There we go.
  zh: 好了。
- start: 335.224
  end: 337.865
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: I don't have to use my theater voice now.
  zh: 我现在不用使用我的剧场声音了。
- start: 339.225
  end: 341.806
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: I mean, think about it.
  zh: 我是说，想想看。
- start: 341.886
  end: 349.029
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: When Julius Caesar was assassinated, the Senate still deified him after his death.
  zh: 当尤利乌斯·凯撒被刺杀时，元老院在他死后仍然将他神化。
- start: 349.089
  end: 355.33
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And even though they tried to suppress a cult  Growing up in his honor, it eventually did.
  zh: 尽管他们试图压制一个为纪念他而兴起的崇拜，但最终还是发展起来了。
- start: 356.55
  end: 369.273
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And then Caesar's nephew, Octavian, becomes the first emperor, Augustus, and he's adopted, you know, so kind of legally he's Caesar's son in the sense of heir.
  zh: 然后凯撒的侄子屋大维成为第一位皇帝奥古斯都，他被收养，你知道，所以从法律上讲，他作为继承人是凯撒的儿子。
- start: 369.273
  end: 378.195
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But think about it, you know, if Caesar's a god, what is Augustus but the son of a god, right?
  zh: 但想想看，你知道，如果凯撒是神，那奥古斯都不就是神的儿子吗，对吧？
- start: 378.195
  end: 386.931
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And again, it's not a coincidence that Jesus is presented in the Gospels as  The Son of God, as opposed to the guy in Rome.
  zh: 再次，福音书中将耶稣描述为神的儿子，而不是罗马的那个人，这并非巧合。
- start: 387.611
  end: 394.033
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The next emperor, Tiberius, demanded to be called Dominus in Latin, which means Lord.
  zh: 下一位皇帝提比略要求被称为拉丁语的Dominus，意思是主。
- start: 394.233
  end: 397.994
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Again, you know, Jesus is called Lord.
  zh: 再次，你知道，耶稣被称为主。
- start: 398.254
  end: 409.936
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: By the time you get to the end of the first century, and the reign of the emperor Domitian,  This is the guy who was emperor when the book of Revelation was written.
  zh: 到了第一世纪末，多米田皇帝统治时期，这就是启示录写作时的皇帝。
- start: 409.936
  end: 415.28
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So, the number of the beast that refers to a man's name, this is the man.
  zh: 所以，那个指代一个人名字的兽的数字，就是指这个人。
- start: 415.28
  end: 425.287
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Domitian demanded to be called Domitus et Deus, Lord and God.
  zh: 多米田要求被称为Domitus et Deus，意思是主和神。
- start: 426.188
  end: 429.49
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And what does Thomas call Jesus?
  zh: 多马怎么称呼耶稣？
- start: 429.49
  end: 431.452
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: My Lord and my God.
  zh: 「我的主，我的神。」
- start: 431.972
  end: 442.937
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So, we have this growing  It's a sort of competition or dichotomy between Christ and Caesar.
  zh: 所以，我们看到这种日益增长的基督与凯撒之间的竞争或对立。
- start: 443.238
  end: 446.299
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Question?
  zh: 问题？
- start: 446.299
  end: 452.884
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: I know I skipped Nero to get to Domitian, because I was doing the titles thing, but you're right.
  zh: 我知道我跳过了尼禄直接讲到多米田，因为我在讲称号的事，但你说得对。
- start: 452.884
  end: 459.197
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: We've got to go back to Nero, because the first real persecution of Christians  It happens during the reign of Nero.
  zh: 我们必须回到尼禄，因为对基督徒的第一次真正迫害发生在尼禄统治期间。
- start: 459.197
  end: 466.243
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Nero is emperor in the late 50s and early 60s of the first century.
  zh: 尼禄是一世纪50年代末和60年代初的皇帝。
- start: 466.243
  end: 467.904
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Think Book of Acts.
  zh: 想想使徒行传。
- start: 468.544
  end: 471.526
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Nero is the emperor at this time.
  zh: 尼禄是这个时期的皇帝。
- start: 472.627
  end: 484.816
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: In July of the year 64, in fact it was the 18th of July in the year 64, fire breaks out in Rome and burns down a major section of Rome.
  zh: 64年7月，确切地说是64年7月18日，罗马发生大火，烧毁了罗马的一大片区域。
- start: 486.57
  end: 495.337
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Coincidentally or not, Nero has plans on his death to build a new palace in that exact part of Rome called the Golden House.
  zh: 不知是否巧合，尼禄计划在他死后在罗马的那个确切地方建造一座新的宫殿，称为金宫。
- start: 495.417
  end: 501.282
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And people started talking, hey, maybe Nero started the fire to clear land for his new palace.
  zh: 人们开始议论纷纷，嘿，也许是尼禄放火为他的新宫殿清理土地。
- start: 501.282
  end: 503.504
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, we don't know for sure whether he did or not.
  zh: 现在，我们不确定他是否真的这样做了。
- start: 503.504
  end: 505.706
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It seems likely.
  zh: 这似乎是有可能的。
- start: 505.706
  end: 510.85
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But either way, he needed a scapegoat to avoid the blame for the fire.
  zh: 但无论如何，他需要一个替罪羊来避免被指责放火。
- start: 510.85
  end: 520.0
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And it's just right at that point that the Christians are starting to be  Noticed by the Romans as something separate from Judaism.
  zh: 恰好在这个时候，罗马人开始注意到基督徒是与犹太教不同的群体。
- start: 520.7
  end: 533.007
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so the Christians become the scapegoat for the fire of 64. And so Nero persecuted the Christians, but not only because they were Christians.
  zh: 于是基督徒成为64年大火的替罪羊。尼禄迫害基督徒，但不仅仅因为他们是基督徒。
- start: 533.007
  end: 538.249
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Basically, the way it works is if you admit to being a Christian, you are automatically guilty of arson.
  zh: 基本上，它的运作方式是，如果你承认自己是基督徒，你就自动被认定犯有纵火罪。
- start: 538.49
  end: 542.811
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so Nero persecuted the Christians on the charge of arson.
  zh: 因此，尼禄以纵火罪的罪名迫害基督徒。
- start: 543.252
  end: 554.95
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And  Christians were executed, not in the Colosseum, the Colosseum wasn't built yet, but in the Circus of Nero, which, you know where that is, right?
  zh: 基督徒被处决，不是在罗马斗兽场，罗马斗兽场还没建成，而是在尼禄竞技场，你知道那在哪里，对吧？
- start: 554.95
  end: 558.011
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The Circus of Nero was where, what's there now?
  zh: 尼禄竞技场在哪里，现在那里是什么？
- start: 560.513
  end: 563.654
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It was on a little hill called the Vatican Hill, right?
  zh: 它在一个叫梵蒂冈山的小山上，对吧？
- start: 563.654
  end: 568.056
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: St. Peter's Basilica is on that spot, or right next to it.
  zh: 圣彼得大教堂就在那个地方，或者就在旁边。
- start: 568.056
  end: 569.377
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But anyway, so, okay.
  zh: 但无论如何，好吧。
- start: 569.377
  end: 574.519
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But Nero's persecution was very short-lived and localized to Rome itself.
  zh: 但尼禄的迫害持续时间很短，仅限于罗马本身。
- start: 574.519
  end: 576.08
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But it set a precedent.
  zh: 但它开创了一个先例。
- start: 576.144
  end: 580.327
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: that Christians were seen as somehow anti-social.
  zh: 基督徒被视为某种反社会的人。
- start: 580.327
  end: 609.993
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so you already know, we've talked about this a little bit, that because Christians were seen as anti-social, or maybe even holier-than-thou, in the sense of critical of Roman society, they didn't participate in the games or certain things, because they were seen as exclusivistic, they had their one God and they didn't worship any of the others,  The Romans actually called the Christians atheists, because they only had one God.
  zh: 所以你已经知道，我们已经谈过一点，因为基督徒被视为反社会，或者甚至是自以为是的，在批评罗马社会的意义上，他们不参加游戏或某些活动，因为他们被视为排他的，他们只有一位神，不崇拜其他神，罗马人实际上称基督徒为无神论者，因为他们只有一位神。
- start: 610.254
  end: 614.656
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: What's up with that?
  zh: 这是怎么回事？
- start: 614.656
  end: 644.601
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Because the church was evangelistic, they made converts, and because a lot of rumors emerged about Christians, including a misunderstanding of the Eucharist leading to rumors of cannibalism, some guy's flesh and blood, things like that, what we have from  Already in the first century is a sense within Roman culture that Christianity is something subversive, antisocial, and dangerous.
  zh: 因为教会具有传教性，他们使人皈依，而且因为出现了许多关于基督徒的谣言，包括对圣餐的误解导致了食人的谣言，某人的肉和血之类的事情，我们从第一世纪就已经在罗马文化中有一种感觉，认为基督教是一种颠覆性的、反社会的和危险的东西。
- start: 644.781
  end: 662.795
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so you'll read in some of your writings bits from the Roman writers like Tacitus, who calls Christianity a destructive superstition, and Suetonius, who calls Christianity a new and mischievous superstition.
  zh: 所以你会在一些著作中读到罗马作家的片段，比如塔西佗称基督教为破坏性的迷信，苏埃托尼乌斯称基督教为新的和恶作剧的迷信。
- start: 663.587
  end: 666.288
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so people began to fear the church.
  zh: 于是人们开始害怕教会。
- start: 666.368
  end: 672.271
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The powers of the empire feared the church because they thought it might be subversive, somehow anti-Roman.
  zh: 帝国的权力机构害怕教会，因为他们认为它可能是颠覆性的，某种程度上是反罗马的。
- start: 672.271
  end: 682.296
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The general population feared the church because they thought if too many people stop worshipping the Roman gods, the Roman gods will stop protecting the empire.
  zh: 普通民众害怕教会，因为他们认为如果太多人停止崇拜罗马诸神，罗马诸神就会停止保护帝国。
- start: 682.677
  end: 688.781
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And eventually things like even natural disasters get blamed on the Christians because  See?
  zh: 最终，甚至自然灾害也被归咎于基督徒，因为看到了吗？
- start: 688.781
  end: 694.303
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: You people aren't worshipping the gods, and the gods are mad at us, and so we have these earthquakes or whatever.
  zh: 你们这些人不崇拜诸神，诸神对我们生气了，所以我们才会有这些地震或其他灾害。
- start: 695.084
  end: 702.246
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And even Tertullian complained about that, how every time there's an earthquake or a flood or something, the Christians are thrown to the line.
  zh: 甚至特土良也抱怨过这一点，每次发生地震或洪水之类的事情，基督徒就会被推到前线。
- start: 703.627
  end: 710.949
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So, we have this growing sense that there's something antisocial about the church.
  zh: 所以，我们越来越感觉教会有些反社会。
- start: 711.823
  end: 722.672
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: By the time we get to the early 2nd century, in fact right around the same time that Ignatius, remember Ignatius of Antioch, remember he wrote those letters, he was on his way to Rome to be martyred, right?
  zh: 到了二世纪初，实际上就在伊格那丢的时代，还记得安提阿的伊格那丢吗？还记得他写的那些信吗？他当时正在前往罗马殉道的路上，对吧？
- start: 722.733
  end: 746.398
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: About that same time, there's an exchange of letters between the Emperor Trajan and a governor in the East, Trajan and Pliny, this is Pliny the Younger, in case you're keeping track,  Pliny writes to Trajan and says, I'm not quite sure what to do with these Christians in my province.
  zh: 大约在同一时期，皇帝图拉真和东方的一位总督之间有一次书信往来，图拉真和普林尼，这是小普林尼，以防你在记录，普林尼写信给图拉真说，我不太确定该如何处置我省的这些基督徒。
- start: 746.739
  end: 749.98
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Let me tell you what I do, and you tell me if it's right.
  zh: 让我告诉你我是怎么做的，你告诉我是否正确。
- start: 750.941
  end: 751.922
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: You're going to read it.
  zh: 你会读到的。
- start: 751.922
  end: 772.966
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: He says, basically, we don't necessarily believe every accusation, but if someone admits to being a Christian, we agree that they  And basically, Trajan says, yeah, that's about right.
  zh: 他说，基本上，我们不一定相信每一个指控，但如果有人承认自己是基督徒，我们同意他们...基本上，图拉真说，是的，差不多就是这样。
- start: 772.966
  end: 786.016
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, what's significant about that, though, is that by the time we get to the early second century here, you see the trajectory from Nero to Trajan is that, you know, in Nero's time, you need a crime.
  zh: 现在，这其中重要的是，到了二世纪初，你可以看到从尼禄到图拉真的轨迹，你知道，在尼禄时代，你需要一个罪行。
- start: 786.376
  end: 791.62
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: You execute the Christians because they're arsonists, apparently.
  zh: 你处决基督徒是因为他们显然是纵火犯。
- start: 792.581
  end: 795.983
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But by the time of Trajan, you don't need a crime anymore.
  zh: 但到了图拉真时代，你不再需要一个罪行了。
- start: 796.221
  end: 804.246
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It is simply illegal to be a Christian on the basis of being a Christian with no other crime attached.
  zh: 仅仅作为一个基督徒就是非法的，不需要附加任何其他罪行。
- start: 804.287
  end: 808.749
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The interesting thing, of course, though, is that you're only convicted of the crime if you confess.
  zh: 当然，有趣的是，只有当你承认时，你才会被定罪。
- start: 809.971
  end: 817.836
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And even if you confess and say, well, I've been a Christian up until now, but I'm willing to stop being one, you get to go free.
  zh: 即使你承认并说，好吧，我到现在一直是基督徒，但我愿意不再做基督徒，你就可以获得自由。
- start: 818.056
  end: 824.18
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so, basically, you would be released if you simply renounce the faith.
  zh: 所以，基本上，如果你只是放弃信仰，你就会被释放。
- start: 824.298
  end: 838.127
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, often renouncing the faith, though, would require some sort of proof, like making a sacrifice to one of the pagan gods and or in honor of the emperor.
  zh: 现在，虽然放弃信仰通常需要某种证明，比如向某个异教神明献祭或者向皇帝致敬。
- start: 838.428
  end: 841.77
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Sometimes if they really wanted to be sure, they'd ask you to curse Christ.
  zh: 有时如果他们真的想确定，他们会要求你咒骂基督。
- start: 842.411
  end: 846.313
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But if you renounce the faith, you go free.
  zh: 但如果你放弃信仰，你就可以获得自由。
- start: 846.554
  end: 857.12
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: If you refuse to renounce the faith, you could be tortured or exiled  condemned to work in the mines until you drop dead, or simply executed.
  zh: 如果你拒绝放弃信仰，你可能会被折磨或流放，被判在矿井中工作直到死亡，或者直接被处决。
- start: 858.18
  end: 867.063
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Execution might mean beheading if you're lucky, if you're a Roman citizen and they want to give you the quick and easy death.
  zh: 如果你幸运的话，处决可能意味着斩首，如果你是罗马公民，他们想给你一个快速而简单的死亡。
- start: 867.183
  end: 878.747
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: If not, then it could mean crucifixion, burning, or being thrown to the wild beasts in the arena for the entertainment of the public.
  zh: 如果不是，那可能意味着被钉十字架、被烧死，或被扔到竞技场的野兽中供公众娱乐。
- start: 880.37
  end: 888.634
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So you see what's happening here is that already in the early second century we've got a sense in which it's simply against the law to be a Christian.
  zh: 所以你看到这里发生的是，在二世纪初我们已经有了一种感觉，仅仅作为基督徒就是违法的。
- start: 889.955
  end: 899.639
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And throughout the rest of the second century we get these incremental precedents in the law.
  zh: 在整个二世纪的剩余时间里，我们在法律中得到了这些渐进的先例。
- start: 899.639
  end: 909.31
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The emperor Antoninus Pius instituted a law that made it illegal to  convert to Judaism.
  zh: 皇帝安东尼·庇护制定了一项法律，使皈依犹太教成为非法。
- start: 909.67
  end: 912.131
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So Jewish proselytism is illegal.
  zh: 所以犹太教的传教是非法的。
- start: 912.131
  end: 915.992
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It was still legal to be Jewish, but it's illegal to proselytize.
  zh: 作为犹太人仍然是合法的，但传教是非法的。
- start: 916.192
  end: 921.574
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: That will be the precedent for a later law making it illegal to convert to Christianity.
  zh: 这将成为后来制定法律使皈依基督教成为非法的先例。
- start: 922.175
  end: 931.378
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The emperor Marcus Aurelius issued an edict where sacrifices were required as a sign of loyalty to the emperor.
  zh: 皇帝马可·奥勒留颁布了一项敕令，要求进行祭祀作为对皇帝忠诚的标志。
- start: 931.378
  end: 937.176
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But he wasn't really trying to persecute the church because he didn't understand that Christians weren't supposed to make these sacrifices.
  zh: 但他并不是真的想迫害教会，因为他不理解基督徒不应该进行这些祭祀。
- start: 937.176
  end: 944.418
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: To him, a Christian should be able to sacrifice to Jupiter and to Christ and whoever else.
  zh: 对他来说，一个基督徒应该能够向朱庇特、基督和其他任何神祭祀。
- start: 944.418
  end: 951.061
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: During the reigns of Antoninus Pius and Marcus Aurelius, we get some of our most famous early martyrdoms.
  zh: 在安东尼·庇护和马可·奥勒留统治期间，我们有了一些最著名的早期殉道事件。
- start: 951.061
  end: 960.784
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The martyrdom of Polycarp, remember he's the one where he has a vision that his pillow is on fire and he knows that he's going to be burned at the stake.
  zh: 波利卡普的殉道，记得他是那个在异象中看到自己的枕头着火，知道自己将被烧死在火刑柱上的人。
- start: 960.784
  end: 964.945
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Justin Martyr, burns his nickname.
  zh: 殉道者游斯丁，「殉道者」是他的绰号。
- start: 967.051
  end: 971.916
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: These martyrdoms are recorded in the so-called Martyr Documents, or the Martyr Acts.
  zh: 这些殉道事件被记录在所谓的殉道文献或殉道行传中。
- start: 971.916
  end: 974.698
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Basically, the Martyr Documents have two parts.
  zh: 基本上，殉道文献有两个部分。
- start: 989.64
  end: 997.386
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: There's the record of the trial or the interrogation of the martyr, and some of those might be quite historical.
  zh: 有殉道者审判或审讯的记录，其中一些可能相当具有历史性。
- start: 998.447
  end: 1002.911
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Then there's the story of the martyr's actual death in the arena or whatever it is.
  zh: 然后是殉道者在竞技场或其他地方实际死亡的故事。
- start: 1002.911
  end: 1008.615
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Some of those are historical, others are embellished with some legendary material.
  zh: 其中一些是历史事实，其他的则添加了一些传奇色彩。
- start: 1009.477
  end: 1016.202
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And you're going to read the Martyrdom of Perpetua for next week, and next week is the Feast of Perpetua on March 7th.
  zh: 下周你们将阅读佩尔佩图阿的殉道，下周3月7日是佩尔佩图阿的纪念日。
- start: 1016.222
  end: 1023.556
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The thing about that is,  This is not an account written later to glorify the martyr.
  zh: 关于这个的事情是，这不是后来为了美化殉道者而写的记述。
- start: 1023.556
  end: 1027.757
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: This is from her own diary that she kept while she was in prison waiting to be martyred.
  zh: 这是她在监狱里等待殉道时所写的日记。
- start: 1027.757
  end: 1029.538
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So it's a fascinating document.
  zh: 所以这是一份引人入胜的文件。
- start: 1029.698
  end: 1033.879
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Hopefully we'll get a chance to talk about that next week.
  zh: 希望我们下周有机会讨论这个。
- start: 1034.759
  end: 1055.725
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But basically, by the end of the second century, the church is growing to the point where there are Christians at all levels of Roman society, including the aristocracy,  Christians could be found in all kinds of jobs, including the military, and there are Christians even within the households of some of the emperors.
  zh: 但基本上，到二世纪末，教会发展到罗马社会各个阶层都有基督徒的程度，包括贵族，基督徒可以在各种工作中找到，包括军队，甚至在一些皇帝的家庭中也有基督徒。
- start: 1056.125
  end: 1063.727
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: There are, according to some thought, some of the emperors had girlfriends who were Christians.
  zh: 据一些人认为，有些皇帝的女朋友是基督徒。
- start: 1064.587
  end: 1074.249
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so, you have this situation where the church is growing, so it's being seen more and more as a threat to the Romans.
  zh: 所以，你有这样一种情况，教会正在成长，因此越来越被视为对罗马人的威胁。
- start: 1075.43
  end: 1093.056
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: At the same time, in 212, the emperor made a law that all inhabitants of the empire are now citizens, so that the expectation of citizens is expanded to everyone within the empire.
  zh: 同时，在212年，皇帝制定了一项法律，帝国的所有居民现在都是公民，所以对公民的期望扩大到了帝国内的每个人。
- start: 1093.056
  end: 1107.248
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So if citizens are expected to make sacrifices in the honor of the emperor, that means everybody is,  But then we also lose the right of Roman citizens to a trial by the emperor.
  zh: 所以如果期望公民为了尊敬皇帝而进行祭祀，那意味着每个人都要这样做，但同时我们也失去了罗马公民由皇帝审判的权利。
- start: 1107.248
  end: 1113.573
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: You may remember from reading the book of Acts that Paul claims to be a Roman citizen, so they have to ship him off to Rome.
  zh: 你可能记得在使徒行传中，保罗声称自己是罗马公民，所以他们不得不把他送到罗马。
- start: 1113.573
  end: 1116.915
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The same thing happened to Ignatius of Antioch and others.
  zh: 同样的事情也发生在安提阿的伊格那丢和其他人身上。
- start: 1116.915
  end: 1119.797
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Well, by this time, that's gone.
  zh: 好吧，到这个时候，那种权利已经消失了。
- start: 1119.797
  end: 1129.138
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So many people were martyred out in the provinces without it ever coming to the attention of the emperor.
  zh: 所以很多人在各省殉道，皇帝甚至都没有注意到。
- start: 1129.138
  end: 1142.07
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So you have a situation where some emperors may have encouraged persecution, but even if they didn't, persecution could be going on out in the provinces without the permission or even the knowledge of the emperor.
  zh: 所以你有这样一种情况，一些皇帝可能鼓励迫害，但即使他们没有，迫害也可能在各省进行，而不需要皇帝的许可甚至不需要皇帝知道。
- start: 1142.07
  end: 1153.08
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And in some places, it's dangerous for Christians just to go out in public because an angry mob can form and just rise up and kill a bunch of Christians, and that happened as well.
  zh: 在一些地方，基督徒出现在公共场合是危险的，因为愤怒的暴民可能会聚集起来，起来杀死一群基督徒，这种情况也发生过。
- start: 1156.303
  end: 1163.105
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Around the turn of the 3rd century, the emperor was Septimius Severus.
  zh: 在三世纪之交，皇帝是塞普蒂米乌斯·塞维鲁。
- start: 1167.007
  end: 1171.809
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Septimius Severus becomes emperor and decides he wants to see his empire.
  zh: 塞普蒂米乌斯·塞维鲁成为皇帝，并决定要看看他的帝国。
- start: 1171.809
  end: 1195.547
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So he travels the east and he comes to Alexandria where he is confronted with a growing church in Alexandria and a catechetical school that is drawing a lot of  Some of them are maybe intending to convert to Christianity, some of them are maybe treating it as a philosophical school, and they're there just sort of as inquirers.
  zh: 所以他游历东方，来到亚历山大，在那里他遇到了一个正在成长的教会和一所吸引了很多人的教理学校。其中一些人可能打算皈依基督教，一些人可能把它当作一所哲学学校，他们只是作为探询者在那里。
- start: 1195.547
  end: 1205.514
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But the emperor was made aware of this growing, thriving church in Alexandria, and he saw that as a threat.
  zh: 但皇帝意识到亚历山大这个正在成长、蓬勃发展的教会，他把它视为一种威胁。
- start: 1206.414
  end: 1222.049
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so in the year 202 CE, he issued an edict  that apparently, we don't have the text of the edict anymore, but apparently this is the first imperial edict to specifically mention Christianity.
  zh: 因此在公元202年，他颁布了一项敕令，显然我们现在已经没有这项敕令的文本了，但显然这是第一个明确提到基督教的皇帝敕令。
- start: 1222.07
  end: 1232.555
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So based on the precedent of Antoninus Pius, this edict made conversion to Christianity illegal and demanded the closing of the catechetical schools.
  zh: 所以基于安东尼·庇护的先例，这项敕令使皈依基督教成为非法，并要求关闭教理学校。
- start: 1234.436
  end: 1247.883
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The other thing that we now have an advance on is back in Trajan's day, in the correspondence between Trajan and Pliny,  They agreed that there was no need to go seeking out Christians.
  zh: 我们现在有了进展的另一件事是，回到图拉真时代，在图拉真和普林尼的通信中，他们同意没有必要去寻找基督徒。
- start: 1247.883
  end: 1250.224
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: There was no need to go looking for the Christians.
  zh: 没有必要去寻找基督徒。
- start: 1250.904
  end: 1256.605
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: If someone was accused and if they were confronted and they admitted to being Christian, okay, then they were executed.
  zh: 如果有人被指控，如果他们被质问并承认是基督徒，好吧，那么他们就会被处决。
- start: 1256.605
  end: 1259.066
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But they didn't have to go looking for them.
  zh: 但他们不必去寻找他们。
- start: 1259.726
  end: 1267.468
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But apparently, with Septimius Severus' edict now, they did start going out and looking for the Christians.
  zh: 但显然，随着塞普蒂米乌斯·塞维鲁的敕令，他们现在开始出去寻找基督徒了。
- start: 1267.468
  end: 1280.713
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And this is what ends up happening to Perpetua, because she's with her  Apparently with her catechesis class preparing for baptism and they were arrested all together.
  zh: 这就是最终发生在佩尔佩图阿身上的事，因为她和她的教理班一起准备受洗，他们被一起逮捕了。
- start: 1280.713
  end: 1282.554
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So they were arrested as a group.
  zh: 所以他们是作为一个群体被逮捕的。
- start: 1284.415
  end: 1296.484
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So when you read Perpetua's story, you'll see how that comes at a point where Christians now can be sought out and rounded up and she's martyred in 203 on March 7th.
  zh: 所以当你读佩尔佩图阿的故事时，你会看到这发生在基督徒现在可以被搜寻和围捕的时候，她在203年3月7日殉道。
- start: 1300.196
  end: 1303.757
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So all that leads up, sorry I had to do that fast, but we got a lot to cover tonight.
  zh: 所以这一切都导致了，抱歉我不得不快速讲述，但我们今晚有很多内容要讲。
- start: 1303.757
  end: 1327.723
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: All that leads up then to, now we're back to the reign of the emperor Decius, 249. And late 249, Decius issues his edict, demanding that all citizens of the empire make the sacrifice, probably to Jupiter, and in the honor of the emperor.
  zh: 所有这些都导致了，现在我们回到德修皇帝统治时期，249年。在249年末，德修颁布了他的敕令，要求帝国所有公民进行祭祀，可能是向朱庇特，并以此来尊敬皇帝。
- start: 1328.235
  end: 1335.118
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But again, now because citizenship has been extended to all inhabitants of the empire, that means everybody.
  zh: 但再次，现在因为公民身份已经扩展到帝国的所有居民，这意味着每个人。
- start: 1335.378
  end: 1342.421
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And anyone who refuses to make the sacrifice could be executed.
  zh: 任何拒绝进行祭祀的人都可能被处决。
- start: 1342.481
  end: 1349.584
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And, on top of that, you had to get a receipt when you made the sacrifice.
  zh: 而且，除此之外，你在进行祭祀时还必须获得一张收据。
- start: 1349.745
  end: 1357.318
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The receipt was called a libellus, which is just Latin for, like, little book or pamphlet.
  zh: 这个收据被称为libellus，这只是拉丁语，意思是小册子或小册子。
- start: 1357.318
  end: 1379.435
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But if you imagine a piece of papyrus, like about an 8 1⁄2 by 11 sheet, that would be written on, and it would say something like, you know, I fill in the blank, having always honored the gods, yadda yadda yadda, do now say, make this sacrifice, in the presence of, you know, blah blah blah, with these witnesses signed, folded in quarters, stick it in your toga, right?
  zh: 但如果你想象一张纸莎草纸，大约8.5乘11英寸的纸，上面会写着类似这样的内容：我（填空），一直尊敬诸神，云云云云，现在说，在（某某某）面前进行这次祭祀，有这些证人签名，折成四折，塞进你的长袍里，对吧？
- start: 1379.796
  end: 1386.0
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And you might be asked to produce this, to show proof of good citizenship, that you've made the sacrifice.
  zh: 你可能会被要求出示这个，以证明你是个好公民，证明你已经进行了祭祀。
- start: 1386.0
  end: 1387.017
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: In fact, you...
  zh: 事实上，你...
- start: 1387.017
  end: 1394.039
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: may be required to produce it to sell your wares in the market, or to participate in commerce.
  zh: 可能被要求出示它来在市场上销售你的商品，或参与商业活动。
- start: 1394.499
  end: 1395.199
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Sound familiar?
  zh: 听起来熟悉吗？
- start: 1395.199
  end: 1397.66
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Sound like anything from the book of Revelation, right?
  zh: 听起来像启示录中的任何内容，对吧？
- start: 1397.66
  end: 1401.261
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Okay, so this labellus then was required.
  zh: 好的，所以这个libellus是必需的。
- start: 1401.261
  end: 1407.923
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Anyone who couldn't produce a labellus, again, could be accused of treason.
  zh: 再次强调，任何不能出示libellus的人都可能被指控叛国。
- start: 1408.683
  end: 1410.724
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So, here comes this edict.
  zh: 所以，这个敕令来了。
- start: 1410.724
  end: 1412.664
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Everybody's got to make the sacrifice.
  zh: 每个人都必须进行祭祀。
- start: 1412.664
  end: 1414.745
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: What do you think the Christians did?
  zh: 你认为基督徒会怎么做？
- start: 1417.705
  end: 1419.486
  speaker: SPEAKER_B
  en: Anyone want to take a guess?
  zh: 有人想猜猜吗？
- start: 1426.17
  end: 1429.211
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Well, they pretty much lined up and made the sacrifices.
  zh: 嗯，他们基本上排队进行了祭祀。
- start: 1429.531
  end: 1437.256
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Many, many Christians said, you know, whatever, I'll just cross my fingers and make the sacrifice.
  zh: 许多许多基督徒说，你知道，无所谓，我就交叉手指进行祭祀吧。
- start: 1437.256
  end: 1439.017
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: God knows what's in my heart.
  zh: 神知道我心里的想法。
- start: 1439.017
  end: 1442.618
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, tuck that in the back of your mind for later because that's going to be an issue.
  zh: 现在，把这个记在心里，因为这将成为一个问题。
- start: 1442.618
  end: 1447.741
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But others didn't make the sacrifice.
  zh: 但其他人没有进行祭祀。
- start: 1447.799
  end: 1453.241
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But they bribed the Roman officials to get the labellus without making the sacrifice.
  zh: 但他们贿赂罗马官员，在不进行祭祀的情况下获得libellus。
- start: 1453.241
  end: 1458.844
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Or they got their pagan neighbor to go make the sacrifice for them and get the labellus.
  zh: 或者他们让他们的异教邻居代他们去进行祭祀并获得libellus。
- start: 1458.844
  end: 1460.805
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So there are all kinds of scenarios.
  zh: 所以有各种各样的情况。
- start: 1460.845
  end: 1463.146
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: There were a lot of martyrs.
  zh: 有很多殉道者。
- start: 1463.426
  end: 1469.949
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But at this point, a lot of people found a way to try and comply with the law.
  zh: 但在这一点上，很多人找到了试图遵守法律的方法。
- start: 1471.409
  end: 1475.431
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: One of the first martyrs, though, was the Bishop of Rome.
  zh: 然而，最早的殉道者之一是罗马的主教。
- start: 1477.833
  end: 1480.534
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: His name was Fabian.
  zh: 他的名字是法比安。
- start: 1481.814
  end: 1502.879
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And Fabian was martyred in January of 250. And when the bishop of Rome was martyred, the Roman church recognized that it couldn't really elect a new bishop right away because it would be very difficult to keep that a secret.
  zh: 法比安在250年1月殉道。当罗马主教殉道时，罗马教会意识到它不能立即选举新的主教，因为很难保守这个秘密。
- start: 1503.279
  end: 1513.353
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So the church of Rome  was officially without a bishop for almost a year and a half, about 14 months.
  zh: 所以罗马教会正式没有主教长达一年半，大约14个月。
- start: 1514.274
  end: 1525.219
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Except that one of the priests filled in as the kind of chair of the council of priests, or the acting bishop, someone we've met already, our old friend Novation.
  zh: 除了一位神父作为神父委员会主席或代理主教的角色，这个人我们已经见过了，我们的老朋友诺瓦天。
- start: 1526.86
  end: 1530.862
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Because he's our foremost theologian in the middle of the third century, right?
  zh: 因为他是我们三世纪中叶最重要的神学家，对吧？
- start: 1530.862
  end: 1535.084
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: We talked about that, and by now you should have read some of his stuff.
  zh: 我们讨论过这个，现在你应该已经读过他的一些作品了。
- start: 1535.703
  end: 1545.651
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So he became the acting bishop of Rome during the time when there was no bishop of Rome.
  zh: 所以在罗马没有主教的时期，他成为了罗马的代理主教。
- start: 1545.651
  end: 1553.917
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So many Christians just lined up and made the sacrifices, but others were martyred, and some became confessors.
  zh: 所以许多基督徒只是排队进行祭祀，但其他人殉道了，还有一些人成为了认信者。
- start: 1553.917
  end: 1570.661
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So there were some Christians who refused to make the sacrifice, confronted the Roman officials and said, yes, I am a Christian, and maybe they were tortured, maybe they were thrown in jail,  But they lived, at least for a while, and they came to be called the confessors.
  zh: 所以有一些基督徒拒绝进行祭祀，面对罗马官员说，是的，我是基督徒，也许他们被折磨，也许他们被关进监狱，但他们活了下来，至少活了一段时间，他们被称为认信者。
- start: 1570.822
  end: 1572.282
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Remember these guys?
  zh: 还记得这些人吗？
- start: 1572.783
  end: 1583.829
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: They confessed to their faith, even at the risk of their lives, but they lived to tell about it, at least for a while.
  zh: 他们承认自己的信仰，即使冒着生命危险，但他们活着讲述了这件事，至少活了一段时间。
- start: 1584.069
  end: 1593.885
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And what ends up happening, of course, is, again, based on the words of Jesus, you know, don't worry about what you're going to say, because the Holy Spirit will give you the words to say.
  zh: 当然，最终发生的事情是，再次基于耶稣的话，你知道，不要担心你要说什么，因为圣灵会给你话语。
- start: 1593.885
  end: 1599.866
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: they're seen as having this charismatic authority, like as if they're prophets.
  zh: 他们被视为具有这种超凡魅力的权威，就好像他们是先知一样。
- start: 1599.866
  end: 1608.507
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So, even though the Church has suppressed the Montanists, here charismatic authority is going to pop up again in the person of the confessors.
  zh: 所以，尽管教会压制了孟他努派，但这里超凡魅力的权威又会在认信者身上再次出现。
- start: 1610.188
  end: 1619.129
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, some of the people who had made the sacrifices later felt guilty about it.
  zh: 现在，一些进行过祭祀的人后来对此感到内疚。
- start: 1619.909
  end: 1624.524
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But what are you going to do, especially in Rome, what are you going to do  The bishop's dead.
  zh: 但你要怎么办，特别是在罗马，你要怎么办？主教已经死了。
- start: 1624.524
  end: 1626.745
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Who do you go to?
  zh: 你要去找谁？
- start: 1627.566
  end: 1634.592
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: How about the people who are sitting in prison who didn't give in to make the sacrifice?
  zh: 那些坐在监狱里没有屈服进行祭祀的人怎么样？
- start: 1634.592
  end: 1640.997
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So some of these people who made the sacrifice felt guilty about it and went to the confessors.
  zh: 所以一些进行过祭祀的人对此感到内疚，就去找认信者。
- start: 1641.638
  end: 1656.989
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so the idea of the confessor sort of morphs from someone who confessed their faith, at the risk of their own lives, to someone to whom others would go to confess  the sin of apostasy or idolatry.
  zh: 因此，认信者的概念从冒着生命危险承认自己信仰的人，变成了其他人去向其忏悔背教或偶像崇拜罪的人。
- start: 1657.389
  end: 1664.111
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And we're seeing here the beginnings of what will become the sacrament of confession.
  zh: 我们在这里看到了后来成为忏悔圣事的开端。
- start: 1664.391
  end: 1667.112
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: They're confessing to someone else.
  zh: 他们向其他人忏悔。
- start: 1667.112
  end: 1675.174
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But in this case, someone who has not apostolic or hierarchical authority, someone who has charismatic authority.
  zh: 但在这种情况下，是向一个没有使徒或等级权威的人，而是一个具有超凡魅力权威的人。
- start: 1678.876
  end: 1687.233
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: In the aftermath of the persecution,  You have these different categories that emerge.
  zh: 在迫害之后，出现了这些不同的类别。
- start: 1692.036
  end: 1702.263
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So obviously, you probably already know this, but the word martyr is a Greek word that means witness.
  zh: 所以显然，你可能已经知道这一点，但殉道者这个词是希腊语，意思是见证人。
- start: 1702.323
  end: 1704.044
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So originally it just means a witness.
  zh: 所以最初它只是意味着一个见证人。
- start: 1704.044
  end: 1712.169
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But it comes to be a technical term here because the martyrs then are the ones who witnessed and then were killed for it.
  zh: 但它在这里成为一个专业术语，因为殉道者是那些见证并因此被杀的人。
- start: 1712.384
  end: 1716.526
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: A martyr is someone who dies as a witness to Christ.
  zh: 殉道者是为基督作见证而死的人。
- start: 1717.207
  end: 1720.049
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So you have the martyrs, and you have the confessors.
  zh: 所以你有殉道者，也有认信者。
- start: 1721.63
  end: 1724.792
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: These are the ones who also witness to their faith.
  zh: 这些人也为他们的信仰作见证。
- start: 1724.792
  end: 1729.114
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: They're willing to be a martyr, but they live, at least for a while.
  zh: 他们愿意成为殉道者，但他们活了下来，至少活了一段时间。
- start: 1730.175
  end: 1742.203
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The ones who were neither martyrs nor confessors, the ones who in one way or another gave in to the demands of the authorities, come to be called the lax.
  zh: 那些既不是殉道者也不是认信者的人，那些以某种方式屈服于当局要求的人，被称为懈怠者。
- start: 1742.867
  end: 1749.99
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Because they're seen as having lapsed in their faith.
  zh: 因为他们被认为在信仰上有所动摇。
- start: 1750.03
  end: 1755.232
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Basically, the idea is that they've denied the faith in one way or another.
  zh: 基本上，这个想法是他们以某种方式否认了信仰。
- start: 1755.232
  end: 1765.075
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The lapsed are those who failed to confess Christ in their moment of decision.
  zh: 懈怠者是那些在决定性时刻未能承认基督的人。
- start: 1766.356
  end: 1768.797
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: There are different kinds of lapsed.
  zh: 懈怠者有不同的类型。
- start: 1768.797
  end: 1772.118
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: You have three different kinds.
  zh: 你有三种不同的类型。
- start: 1772.352
  end: 1774.653
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: There are the apostates.
  zh: 有背教者。
- start: 1775.533
  end: 1786.617
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: To be an apostate is one who actually made the sacrifice, made the required sacrifice, participated in some pagan ritual, and so they are guilty of idolatry.
  zh: 背教者是实际进行了祭祀，进行了要求的祭祀，参与了某些异教仪式的人，因此他们犯了偶像崇拜的罪。
- start: 1787.817
  end: 1789.298
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But not everybody did that.
  zh: 但不是每个人都这样做了。
- start: 1789.298
  end: 1802.522
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: There are those who bought a labellus or bribed a Roman official to get a labellus or got a pagan neighbor to go make a sacrifice and give them the labellus.
  zh: 有些人购买了libellus，或贿赂罗马官员获得libellus，或让异教邻居去进行祭祀并给他们libellus。
- start: 1803.28
  end: 1805.14
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: These come to be called...
  zh: 这些人被称为...
- start: 1806.701
  end: 1812.422
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Wait, is there two L's? I don't have two L's. All right, labellatechi.
  zh: 等等，是两个L吗？我没有两个L。好吧，labellatechi。
- start: 1812.422
  end: 1814.703
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: There's no good translation for this in English.
  zh: 这个词在英语中没有好的翻译。
- start: 1814.703
  end: 1822.724
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It's something like labella's getters, you know, or I don't know.
  zh: 它类似于libellus的获得者，你知道，或者我不知道。
- start: 1822.744
  end: 1827.005
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But anyway, I guess you could say pamphleteers.
  zh: 但无论如何，我想你可以说是小册子获得者。
- start: 1827.645
  end: 1828.885
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But you get the idea.
  zh: 但你明白这个意思。
- start: 1828.885
  end: 1841.131
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: These are the people who got their hands on a labella  to, you know, fictitiously be able to say they made the sacrifice even if they didn't make the sacrifice.
  zh: 这些人设法获得了libellus，你知道，虚假地能够说他们进行了祭祀，即使他们实际上没有进行祭祀。
- start: 1841.131
  end: 1844.631
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It is a double L. It is a double L. Thank you.
  zh: 确实是两个L。确实是两个L。谢谢。
- start: 1845.351
  end: 1846.471
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: La Bella Tecchi.
  zh: La Bella Tecchi。
- start: 1846.471
  end: 1849.692
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Alright.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 1849.692
  end: 1853.393
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The third category is traitors.
  zh: 第三类是叛徒。
- start: 1854.553
  end: 1856.453
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Traitors to the church, in other words.
  zh: 换句话说，就是教会的叛徒。
- start: 1856.453
  end: 1865.416
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So, these are people who maybe, you know, didn't make a sacrifice or didn't get a La Bella,  But they cooperated or collaborated with the Romans in some sense.
  zh: 所以，这些人可能没有进行祭祀或没有获得libellus，但他们在某种程度上与罗马人合作或勾结。
- start: 1865.416
  end: 1883.567
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Usually it would mean that they handed over scriptures to the Roman officials or they handed over church property, chalices and plates or whatever, and the Roman officials took liturgical elements in trying to suppress worship.
  zh: 通常这意味着他们将圣经交给罗马官员，或者交出教会财产，如圣杯和盘子等，罗马官员拿走这些礼仪用品以试图压制崇拜。
- start: 1884.868
  end: 1896.061
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, there were some people who  If they figured they could get away with it when the Romans came to their door and said, hand over your scriptures, they gave them Webster's Dictionary or something and figured the Romans wouldn't know the difference.
  zh: 现在，有些人如果认为他们能蒙混过关，当罗马人来到他们门前说，交出你们的圣经时，他们给了他们韦氏词典之类的东西，认为罗马人不会知道区别。
- start: 1896.061
  end: 1899.002
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And sometimes that worked.
  zh: 有时这种方法确实奏效。
- start: 1899.263
  end: 1906.446
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But anyway, the traitors were the ones who handed over the scriptures or liturgical elements or something like that.
  zh: 但无论如何，叛徒是那些交出圣经或礼仪用品或类似东西的人。
- start: 1907.647
  end: 1911.769
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So we have this problem now.
  zh: 所以我们现在面临这个问题。
- start: 1911.769
  end: 1920.427
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Because the problem is, in case you don't see what's coming, the problem is  What do you do when these folks, the lapsed, want to come back to church?
  zh: 因为问题是，如果你没有看到即将发生的事，问题是当这些懈怠者想要回到教会时，你该怎么办？
- start: 1921.068
  end: 1921.788
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 1921.788
  end: 1929.711
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, because you've got the martyrs who gave their lives and they're dead, and their relatives are still in the church.
  zh: 现在，因为你有那些献出生命的殉道者，他们已经死了，而他们的亲属仍在教会里。
- start: 1929.991
  end: 1943.136
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And you've got the confessors who maybe went through torture, or who maybe are still in prison, their relatives are in the church, and now here come the lapsed and they want to come back to the table.
  zh: 你还有那些可能经历过折磨或可能仍在监狱中的认信者，他们的亲属在教会里，现在懈怠者来了，他们想要回到圣餐桌前。
- start: 1943.496
  end: 1944.456
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: What do you do?
  zh: 你该怎么办？
- start: 1946.597
  end: 1949.218
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And that's the problem.
  zh: 这就是问题所在。
- start: 1949.899
  end: 1954.542
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: At this time, the bishop of Carthage in North Africa is Cyprian.
  zh: 在这个时候，北非迦太基的主教是西普里安。
- start: 1955.583
  end: 1958.404
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And actually, he solved the problem by running.
  zh: 实际上，他通过逃跑解决了这个问题。
- start: 1958.404
  end: 1959.425
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: He went into hiding.
  zh: 他躲藏起来。
- start: 1959.425
  end: 1963.867
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: He headed for the hills and went into hiding during the worst part of the persecution.
  zh: 在迫害最严重的时期，他逃到山里躲藏起来。
- start: 1964.728
  end: 1969.811
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But he wrote a document called, On the Last.
  zh: 但他写了一份文件，名为《论懈怠者》。
- start: 1970.211
  end: 1972.292
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: What to do about the last.
  zh: 该如何处理懈怠者。
- start: 1972.293
  end: 1976.495
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, from Cyprian's point of view, remember, he's a bishop.
  zh: 现在，从西普里安的观点来看，记住，他是一位主教。
- start: 1977.204
  end: 1983.006
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So what do you think his primary concern is at this point?
  zh: 那么你认为他此时的主要关切是什么？
- start: 1985.007
  end: 1987.027
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Well, absolutely, unity.
  zh: 嗯，绝对是合一。
- start: 1987.787
  end: 1998.79
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Cyprian is the guy, by the way, who says whoever doesn't have the church for a mother cannot hope to have God for a father.
  zh: 顺便说一下，西普里安是那个说「凡不以教会为母的人就不能指望以神为父」的人。
- start: 1999.011
  end: 2011.934
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So there's this idea where there's no salvation outside the church, the church must be one, must be one in terms of its discipline,  Because the assumption here is the last are excommunicated.
  zh: 所以这里有一个观念，就是教会之外没有救恩，教会必须合一，在纪律上必须合一，因为这里的假设是懈怠者已被逐出教会。
- start: 2012.075
  end: 2016.636
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: They have excommunicated themselves by their act of apostasy or whatever it is.
  zh: 他们因背教或其他行为而自我逐出了教会。
- start: 2016.636
  end: 2018.216
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So the last are excommunicated.
  zh: 所以懈怠者被逐出了教会。
- start: 2018.216
  end: 2021.237
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So the question is, how are they to be reconciled?
  zh: 所以问题是，他们如何才能重新和解？
- start: 2021.237
  end: 2023.638
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: How are they to be welcomed back to the table?
  zh: 如何欢迎他们回到圣餐桌前？
- start: 2023.638
  end: 2025.138
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Or are they at all?
  zh: 或者他们根本就不能回来？
- start: 2025.299
  end: 2028.039
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Should they be welcomed back at all?
  zh: 他们是否应该被欢迎回来？
- start: 2030.02
  end: 2033.401
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Cyprian's biggest concern, though, is this.
  zh: 然而，西普里安最大的担忧是这个。
- start: 2033.721
  end: 2035.001
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The confessors.
  zh: 认信者。
- start: 2035.002
  end: 2043.849
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Because the confessors  on the basis of their perceived charismatic authority, are granting people reconciliation.
  zh: 因为认信者基于他们被认为的超凡魅力权威，正在给予人们和解。
- start: 2044.129
  end: 2057.674
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So the laps are going to the confessors and saying, you know, pouring out their hearts, you know, the grief for having committed idolatry, and the confessors are proclaiming them forgiven.
  zh: 所以懈怠者去找认信者，你知道，倾诉他们的心声，表达他们因犯了偶像崇拜而感到的悲伤，而认信者宣布他们被宽恕了。
- start: 2058.075
  end: 2062.516
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And some of the confessors are even giving them a get-back-in-the-church note.
  zh: 一些认信者甚至给他们一张重返教会的便条。
- start: 2064.157
  end: 2068.181
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Some of these notes even say,  You and your whole family.
  zh: 这些便条中有些甚至说，「你和你的全家」。
- start: 2068.181
  end: 2073.243
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So, covering a group of people, most of whom didn't even bother to go and confess.
  zh: 所以，这涵盖了一群人，其中大多数人甚至懒得去忏悔。
- start: 2073.524
  end: 2077.465
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So Cyprian's like freaking out because this isn't going to work.
  zh: 所以西普里安感到非常恐慌，因为这行不通。
- start: 2077.806
  end: 2082.288
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The bishops have to be the authority over reconciliation.
  zh: 主教必须是和解的权威。
- start: 2082.288
  end: 2085.249
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Never mind the fact that he's not there, he's in hiding.
  zh: 别管他不在那里的事实，他在躲藏。
- start: 2085.249
  end: 2100.574
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But in his document on the left, what he says is that the power to forgive and reconcile  Lies with the church, not with individuals apart from the church.
  zh: 但在他的《论懈怠者》文件中，他说宽恕和和解的权力在于教会，而不在于脱离教会的个人。
- start: 2100.574
  end: 2101.615
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So see what's happening here.
  zh: 所以看看这里发生了什么。
- start: 2101.615
  end: 2107.817
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It's the hierarchical authority in conflict with the charismatic authority.
  zh: 这是等级权威与超凡魅力权威的冲突。
- start: 2107.817
  end: 2112.279
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Jesus gave the power of loosing and binding, the power of the keys.
  zh: 耶稣赐予了捆绑和释放的权柄，钥匙的权柄。
- start: 2112.279
  end: 2115.64
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: This is the power of forgiveness and reconciliation.
  zh: 这是宽恕和和解的权柄。
- start: 2115.64
  end: 2124.07
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Jesus gave the power of binding and loosing to Peter and the apostles, who transferred it to their successors, the bishops.
  zh: 耶稣将捆绑和释放的权柄赐给了彼得和使徒们，他们又将其传给了他们的继承者，即主教们。
- start: 2124.07
  end: 2127.191
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So it's the bishops who have authority over reconciliation.
  zh: 所以是主教们拥有和解的权威。
- start: 2127.191
  end: 2129.011
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: This is Cyprian's point.
  zh: 这就是西普里安的观点。
- start: 2129.011
  end: 2131.772
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Beyond that, he doesn't want to say too much.
  zh: 除此之外，他不想说太多。
- start: 2131.772
  end: 2135.873
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: At first he's like, I'm not even sure what to say about this.
  zh: 起初他好像在说，我甚至不确定该如何评论这件事。
- start: 2136.033
  end: 2153.938
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And he is reluctant to say too much about reconciling because in his mind, in a lot of people's minds at this time, if you've committed apostasy, this might be the unforgivable sin.
  zh: 他不愿意说太多关于和解的事，因为在他的想法中，在当时许多人的想法中，如果你犯了背教的罪，这可能是不可饶恕的罪。
- start: 2154.474
  end: 2162.999
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And the only way that you can be absolutely sure of being forgiven of apostasy is by becoming a martyr.
  zh: 而你能绝对确定背教罪得到宽恕的唯一方法就是成为殉道者。
- start: 2163.5
  end: 2176.848
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So while the persecution is still going on, these guys are real reluctant to reconcile anyone because what they really want is for the apostates, especially, for the last, in general, to get martyred.
  zh: 所以在迫害仍在继续的时候，这些人非常不愿意与任何人和解，因为他们真正想要的是让背教者，特别是懈怠者，普遍地成为殉道者。
- start: 2177.109
  end: 2196.503
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Like, in other words, to be confronted again for their faith, and the second time, state, hold fast,  Confess their faith and either become confessors or martyrs, because that's really the only way that you could be sure that the sin of apostasy would be forgiven, by undoing it with martyrdom.
  zh: 换句话说，再次为他们的信仰面对考验，第二次坚持立场，坚守信仰，成为认信者或殉道者，因为这真的是你能确定背教之罪得到宽恕的唯一方法，通过殉道来弥补。
- start: 2198.404
  end: 2208.869
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Novation, though, is eventually going to become the one who will be the poster child for the rigorists, the ones who are going to say, no.
  zh: 然而，诺瓦天最终将成为严格主义者的代表人物，他们会说，不。
- start: 2210.791
  end: 2216.814
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: If we let the laps back into the church, it's going to be a slap in the face for the martyrs and the confessors.
  zh: 如果我们让懈怠者回到教会，这将是对殉道者和认信者的侮辱。
- start: 2216.814
  end: 2219.296
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So they should not be reconciled at all.
  zh: 所以他们根本不应该被和解。
- start: 2219.296
  end: 2227.76
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So the rigorous, in this case, are going to be the ones who advocate pretty much permanent excommunication for the laps.
  zh: 所以在这种情况下，严格主义者将是那些主张对懈怠者实行几乎永久性逐出教会的人。
- start: 2229.181
  end: 2233.963
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now eventually, Cyprian is going to come back to Carthage and there will be a council.
  zh: 现在最终，西普里安将回到迦太基，并将召开一次会议。
- start: 2233.963
  end: 2237.285
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: There's a council in Carthage and then another one in Rome.
  zh: 在迦太基有一次会议，然后在罗马又有一次。
- start: 2237.285
  end: 2243.094
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And basically,  they're going to have to work out what to do about the last.
  zh: 基本上，他们将不得不制定出如何处理懈怠者的方案。
- start: 2243.434
  end: 2252.676
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And ultimately, the issue is going to be that it's got to be decided on a case-by-case basis, because they can't have one rule that covers everybody.
  zh: 最终，问题将是必须根据具体情况逐案决定，因为他们不能有一个适用于所有人的规则。
- start: 2252.676
  end: 2257.658
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: I mean, you've got at least these three different categories, but even within that, you've got different scenarios.
  zh: 我的意思是，你至少有这三个不同的类别，但即使在这些类别中，你也有不同的情况。
- start: 2258.538
  end: 2281.136
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So the councils decide, in general, to put it quickly, the councils decide that anyone who is an apostate who voluntarily sacrificed  Anyone who just lined up and made the sacrifice, they're excommunicated and they probably cannot be reconciled except maybe like on their deathbed.
  zh: 所以总的来说，简单地说，会议决定任何自愿献祭的背教者，任何只是排队进行祭祀的人，他们都被逐出教会，可能无法和解，除非可能是在他们临终时。
- start: 2282.416
  end: 2290.618
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Anyone who paid someone else to make a sacrifice for them just to get the libellus, that's just as bad because you've caused somebody else to sin.
  zh: 任何付钱让别人为他们献祭以获得libellus的人，这同样糟糕，因为你导致了别人犯罪。
- start: 2290.638
  end: 2291.898
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Maybe it's even worse.
  zh: 也许这甚至更糟。
- start: 2291.898
  end: 2293.619
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But they're excommunicated.
  zh: 但他们被逐出教会。
- start: 2295.199
  end: 2299.08
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Maybe possibly to be reconciled at the end of their lives.
  zh: 也许可能在他们生命的尽头得到和解。
- start: 2300.382
  end: 2316.226
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: If you sacrifice after being tortured, and by the way, there has to be real torture, just the threat of torture is not good enough, but if there was real torture, and then the person finally gave in and sacrificed, they could be reconciled after seven years.
  zh: 如果你在被折磨后献祭，顺便说一下，必须是真正的折磨，仅仅是威胁折磨是不够的，但如果有真正的折磨，然后这个人最终屈服并献祭，他们可以在七年后得到和解。
- start: 2316.586
  end: 2327.349
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So, there's a time of seven years during which the people are supposed to demonstrate the sincerity of their repentance.
  zh: 所以，有七年的时间让人们表现出他们悔改的诚意。
- start: 2327.749
  end: 2330.23
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, maybe you see where this is going.
  zh: 现在，也许你看到这要去向何方了。
- start: 2333.087
  end: 2358.68
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But to demonstrate the sincerity of your repentance, repentance being an inward reality that's difficult to see, to demonstrate the sincerity of your repentance ultimately means to do outward acts of penance.
  zh: 但要证明你悔改的诚意，悔改是一种难以看到的内在现实，要证明你悔改的诚意最终意味着要做外在的忏悔行为。
- start: 2360.691
  end: 2362.572
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It becomes penance.
  zh: 它变成了忏悔。
- start: 2363.073
  end: 2367.856
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The penance being the outward, invisible sign of the inward reality.
  zh: 忏悔是内在现实的外在、无形的标志。
- start: 2367.856
  end: 2380.464
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So if you sacrificed after torture, you were expected to do penance for seven years before you could be reconciled.
  zh: 所以如果你在被折磨后献祭，你被期望在七年内进行忏悔，然后才能得到和解。
- start: 2380.464
  end: 2388.549
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, except if you were clergy, then again, penance for life, with possible reconciliation on your deathbed.
  zh: 现在，除非你是神职人员，那么再次，终身忏悔，可能在临终时得到和解。
- start: 2391.3
  end: 2394.501
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: What's the point here that I want you to see?
  zh: 我想让你们看到的重点是什么？
- start: 2395.302
  end: 2412.911
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The point that I want you to see is that the church is, by necessity, coming out of the persecution, and the persecution is not over yet, but in this instance, coming out of the persecution and creating a certain ecclesiology out of that persecution.
  zh: 我想让你们看到的重点是，教会必然要走出迫害，而迫害还没有结束，但在这种情况下，走出迫害并从那次迫害中创造出某种教会学。
- start: 2412.911
  end: 2416.393
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The ecclesiology being, you know, what do we believe about the church?
  zh: 教会学就是，你知道，我们对教会有什么看法？
- start: 2416.393
  end: 2417.673
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And this is the question.
  zh: 这就是问题所在。
- start: 2417.673
  end: 2418.874
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: What is the church?
  zh: 教会是什么？
- start: 2418.874
  end: 2421.395
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Is the church a community of saints?
  zh: 教会是圣徒的团体吗？
- start: 2422.378
  end: 2425.66
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Or is the church a school for sinners?
  zh: 还是教会是罪人的学校？
- start: 2427.482
  end: 2430.404
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Is the church a clean room?
  zh: 教会是一个无尘室吗？
- start: 2430.884
  end: 2435.788
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: You know what a clean room is, where you gotta wear the whole white suit and all that.
  zh: 你知道无尘室是什么，就是你必须穿全套白色衣服之类的地方。
- start: 2436.288
  end: 2438.47
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Or is the church a hospital?
  zh: 还是教会是一家医院？
- start: 2440.852
  end: 2444.134
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Is the church a country club for the perfected?
  zh: 教会是完美者的乡村俱乐部吗？
- start: 2444.795
  end: 2453.632
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Or is the church a hospital for  Those who need healing.
  zh: 还是教会是需要治愈者的医院？
- start: 2454.253
  end: 2456.393
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: What is the church?
  zh: 教会是什么？
- start: 2456.393
  end: 2465.956
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Is it an enclave of people who want to keep themselves pure because they're pure and they don't want to have anything impure?
  zh: 它是一群想要保持纯洁的人的飞地吗？因为他们是纯洁的，他们不想要任何不纯洁的东西？
- start: 2466.236
  end: 2472.237
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Or is the church a place where the impure can become more pure?
  zh: 还是教会是一个不纯洁的人可以变得更纯洁的地方？
- start: 2472.718
  end: 2474.078
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: You see the difference.
  zh: 你看到区别了。
- start: 2475.398
  end: 2488.834
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: If your novation and the rigorous  The church is this clean room, the community of saints, the enclave of the perfected.
  zh: 如果你的新观点和严格主义者认为教会是这个无尘室，圣徒的团体，完美者的飞地。
- start: 2489.215
  end: 2495.8
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: You don't want the imperfect in there, because the imperfect will somehow taint the perfect.
  zh: 你不想让不完美的人进入那里，因为不完美的人会以某种方式玷污完美。
- start: 2498.883
  end: 2505.528
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, all of this comes to a decision point when the Roman church is finally able to elect a new bishop.
  zh: 现在，当罗马教会终于能够选举新主教时，所有这些都到了一个决定点。
- start: 2507.113
  end: 2509.795
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: By all rights, an ovation should be in the next bishop.
  zh: 按理说，诺瓦天应该成为下一任主教。
- start: 2509.795
  end: 2516.18
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: He wrote, you know, basically the defining document of orthodoxy for the mid-third century.
  zh: 你知道，他基本上写了三世纪中叶正统信仰的定义性文件。
- start: 2516.18
  end: 2520.363
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: He's the acting bishop of Rome, the chair of the council of priests.
  zh: 他是罗马的代理主教，神父委员会的主席。
- start: 2520.364
  end: 2521.985
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now it's election time.
  zh: 现在是选举时间了。
- start: 2522.425
  end: 2523.766
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It should be a no-brainer.
  zh: 这应该是显而易见的。
- start: 2523.766
  end: 2524.327
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Guess what?
  zh: 猜猜怎么着？
- start: 2524.327
  end: 2525.367
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: He loses.
  zh: 他输了。
- start: 2525.628
  end: 2528.51
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Another guy is elected instead, a guy named Cornelius.
  zh: 另一个人被选上了，一个叫科尼利的人。
- start: 2528.51
  end: 2529.091
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 2529.091
  end: 2531.372
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Because Cornelius is a pastor.
  zh: 因为科尼利是一位牧师。
- start: 2531.533
  end: 2533.694
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The theologian is the rigorous.
  zh: 神学家是严格的。
- start: 2534.055
  end: 2539.881
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The pastor is the one who recognizes that, well,  We can't just kick out all the lapsed.
  zh: 牧师是认识到，嗯，我们不能就这样把所有懈怠者都踢出去的人。
- start: 2539.901
  end: 2542.103
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: First of all, that's going to decimate the church.
  zh: 首先，这会使教会人数大减。
- start: 2542.103
  end: 2549.888
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But secondly, what does that say that we, you know, I mean, on some level that says something about what you believe about the church.
  zh: 但其次，这说明我们，你知道，我的意思是，在某种程度上这说明了你对教会的信念。
- start: 2551.209
  end: 2594.208
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so Novation, while he, you know, as good a theologian as he was, his ecclesiology went down this road of rigorism and ultimately he gets himself consecrated as a  Rival bishop of Rome against Cornelius, and becomes really the church's first real schism, where the church splits, he starts his own movement, and it's very telling that, of course, they're called Novatianists, but in the East, in Greek, they're called the Katheroids, the purists, or the pure ones, right?
  zh: 所以诺瓦天，你知道，尽管他是一位优秀的神学家，但他的教会学走上了严格主义的道路，最终他让自己被祝圣为与科尼利对抗的罗马对立主教，成为教会第一次真正的分裂，教会分裂了，他开始了自己的运动，很能说明问题的是，当然，他们被称为诺瓦天派，但在东方，在希腊语中，他们被称为Katheroids，纯粹主义者，或纯洁者，对吧？
- start: 2594.551
  end: 2599.433
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So that tells you exactly what they think the church is.
  zh: 这准确地告诉你他们认为教会是什么。
- start: 2599.433
  end: 2605.416
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It's a place for the pure, where we don't want to include anyone who's not pure.
  zh: 这是一个纯洁者的地方，我们不想包括任何不纯洁的人。
- start: 2605.416
  end: 2610.077
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: There's a basic issue here.
  zh: 这里有一个基本问题。
- start: 2611.458
  end: 2615.44
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Do you believe that impurity taints purity?
  zh: 你相信不纯洁会玷污纯洁吗？
- start: 2615.56
  end: 2620.662
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Or do you believe that purity will rub off on impurity, making it more pure?
  zh: 还是你相信纯洁会影响不纯洁，使其变得更纯洁？
- start: 2620.662
  end: 2622.883
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: What's more powerful, purity or impurity?
  zh: 什么更有力量，纯洁还是不纯洁？
- start: 2623.11
  end: 2629.794
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The rigorists are worried that the impure will taint their pure church, and so it's exclusive.
  zh: 严格主义者担心不纯洁的人会玷污他们纯洁的教会，所以它是排他的。
- start: 2629.794
  end: 2632.015
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: You exclude the impure.
  zh: 你排斥不纯洁的人。
- start: 2633.156
  end: 2635.598
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The mainstream church is going to go a different way.
  zh: 主流教会将走一条不同的道路。
- start: 2635.698
  end: 2640.281
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The mainstream church is going to say, no, the church is a school for sinners.
  zh: 主流教会会说，不，教会是罪人的学校。
- start: 2640.281
  end: 2643.763
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It's a hospital for the sick of soul.
  zh: 它是灵魂病患的医院。
- start: 2643.763
  end: 2646.745
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It's the place where people get healing.
  zh: 它是人们获得治愈的地方。
- start: 2646.745
  end: 2649.786
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It's not a place where you kick out everybody who needs healing.
  zh: 它不是一个把所有需要治愈的人都踢出去的地方。
- start: 2651.155
  end: 2653.396
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The church is going to be inclusive.
  zh: 教会将是包容的。
- start: 2655.496
  end: 2659.357
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So the mainstream church then is represented by Cornelius and Rome.
  zh: 所以主流教会由科尼利和罗马代表。
- start: 2660.297
  end: 2669.019
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now Cyprian is going to be more mainstream, but again, he is concerned about who has the authority to reconcile.
  zh: 现在西普里安将更加主流，但再次，他关心的是谁有权力进行和解。
- start: 2671.5
  end: 2680.077
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: He's concerned in some ways about the unity of the church because  We want to control who we let back in.
  zh: 他在某些方面关心教会的合一，因为我们想控制我们让谁回来。
- start: 2680.077
  end: 2686.28
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: We're not excluding everyone, but at the same time we're not going to the other extreme and including everyone either.
  zh: 我们不是排斥所有人，但同时我们也不会走向另一个极端，包容所有人。
- start: 2686.78
  end: 2698.345
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: We're going to control who we let back in and under what process, and we're going to control who has authority over that, who has authority over reconciliation.
  zh: 我们要控制我们让谁回来，以及通过什么过程，我们要控制谁对此有权威，谁对和解有权威。
- start: 2699.526
  end: 2717.922
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, the question will then come up over time, well, what happens  if someone is converted to Christianity from paganism by the Novatians.
  zh: 现在，随着时间的推移，问题就会出现，如果有人被诺瓦天派从异教转变为基督教会怎么样。
- start: 2717.922
  end: 2731.945
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The Novatians convert somebody, they join this movement, and get baptized by these guys, and then they realize, wait a second, you guys aren't the mainstream church, you guys are just this little faction, I want to be in the big church.
  zh: 诺瓦天派使某人皈依，他们加入这个运动，并接受这些人的洗礼，然后他们意识到，等一下，你们不是主流教会，你们只是一个小派系，我想加入大教会。
- start: 2731.945
  end: 2735.706
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So then they want to come over to the main church.
  zh: 所以他们想加入主流教会。
- start: 2736.237
  end: 2739.438
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: A couple of things I'll have to back up in a second.
  zh: 我得退后一步说几件事。
- start: 2739.438
  end: 2745.861
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The question is going to be, do they need to be baptized again?
  zh: 问题将是，他们需要再次受洗吗？
- start: 2745.861
  end: 2748.242
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: They were baptized by the Novationists.
  zh: 他们是由诺瓦天派施洗的。
- start: 2748.383
  end: 2755.726
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Does the person need to be baptized again to come into the mainstream church?
  zh: 这个人需要再次受洗才能进入主流教会吗？
- start: 2755.726
  end: 2778.658
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And here's where we have to start using the C word, the Catholic Church, because  With the Novationists, by the way, we haven't gotten to the Council of Nicaea yet, but when the Novationists go to the Council of Nicaea, they're declared Orthodox, which ultimately means that the Church is going to recognize that it's possible to be Christian and not Catholic.
  zh: 这就是我们必须开始使用C字，公教会的地方，因为对于诺瓦天派，顺便说一下，我们还没有到达尼西亚会议，但当诺瓦天派去参加尼西亚会议时，他们被宣布为正统，这最终意味着教会将认识到可能成为基督徒而不是公教徒。
- start: 2779.139
  end: 2786.843
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So, for the first time with the Novationists, we have this sense of something like a modern denomination almost.
  zh: 所以，对于诺瓦天派来说，我们第一次有了类似现代教派的感觉。
- start: 2787.263
  end: 2794.738
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: There will eventually be an acknowledgement that it's possible to be Christian and yet be  In a separated ecclesial body.
  zh: 最终会有一个承认，即可能成为基督徒，但却在一个分离的教会团体中。
- start: 2794.738
  end: 2796.719
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, not at first.
  zh: 现在，一开始不是这样。
- start: 2796.719
  end: 2802.804
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Most of Novatian's enemies will call them heretics, even though theologically they're not heretics.
  zh: 诺瓦天的大多数敌人会称他们为异端，尽管从神学上讲他们不是异端。
- start: 2803.185
  end: 2804.806
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: In that sense, they're kind of like the Montanists.
  zh: 从这个意义上说，他们有点像孟他努派。
- start: 2804.806
  end: 2808.048
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: They're rigorous, but not really heretics.
  zh: 他们很严格，但并不真的是异端。
- start: 2808.449
  end: 2813.573
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But the Novatianist church will spread and last for a couple of centuries.
  zh: 但诺瓦天派教会将传播并持续几个世纪。
- start: 2815.415
  end: 2817.556
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Longer in the East than in the West.
  zh: 在东方比在西方持续的时间更长。
- start: 2818.806
  end: 2836.701
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But when people want to rejoin the Catholic Church, and I'm using Catholic with a small c, but in a sense, it sort of has the meaning of, it's coming to have the meaning that it has now.
  zh: 但当人们想重新加入公教会时，我用的是小写的公教会，但在某种意义上，它有了现在的含义。
- start: 2836.701
  end: 2857.234
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So Cyprian responds to this by saying that if you're baptized, the person who performed your baptism  It has to be within the Orthodox Church, or the baptism is not valid.
  zh: 所以西普里安对此的回应是，如果你受洗，为你施洗的人必须在正统教会内，否则洗礼无效。
- start: 2857.594
  end: 2867.94
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So, Cyprian starts re-baptizing people who come into the Catholic Church from the Novatianists or any other movement.
  zh: 所以，西普里安开始为那些从诺瓦天派或任何其他运动加入公教会的人重新施洗。
- start: 2869.301
  end: 2874.704
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, by now the Bishop of Rome is no longer Cornelius.
  zh: 现在，罗马的主教已经不再是科尼利了。
- start: 2875.845
  end: 2878.867
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: By now the Bishop of Rome is a guy named Stephen.
  zh: 现在罗马的主教是一个叫斯蒂芬的人。
- start: 2879.369
  end: 2883.572
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And Stephen and Cyprian are now going to butt heads.
  zh: 斯蒂芬和西普里安现在要发生冲突了。
- start: 2883.572
  end: 2891.198
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So it's interesting because when it's Novation and Cyprian, Cyprian represents more closer to the mainstream.
  zh: 所以这很有趣，因为当是诺瓦天和西普里安时，西普里安代表更接近主流。
- start: 2891.358
  end: 2897.683
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: When it's Stephen versus Cyprian, Cyprian will not necessarily represent the mainstream.
  zh: 当是斯蒂芬对西普里安时，西普里安不一定代表主流。
- start: 2897.683
  end: 2899.604
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Stephen is Bishop of Rome.
  zh: 斯蒂芬是罗马的主教。
- start: 2900.345
  end: 2910.927
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And what I want you to see here is how the persecution brought on the controversy over  Reconciliation.
  zh: 我想让你们看到的是迫害如何引发了关于和解的争议。
- start: 2911.768
  end: 2916.351
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And that will necessarily bring on a controversy over baptism.
  zh: 这必然会引发关于洗礼的争议。
- start: 2916.772
  end: 2919.014
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Because the question is going to become...
  zh: 因为问题将变成...
- start: 2919.014
  end: 2923.618
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The question is this.
  zh: 问题是这样的。
- start: 2923.998
  end: 2938.33
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: For a baptism to be valid, does the presider who administered the baptism have to be, what, orthodox, not a sinner, you know, whatever, right?
  zh: 为了使洗礼有效，主持洗礼的人必须是什么，正统的，不是罪人，你知道，诸如此类，对吧？
- start: 2938.516
  end: 2946.042
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: In other words, does the presider over the baptism matter to the validity of the baptism?
  zh: 换句话说，主持洗礼的人对洗礼的有效性重要吗？
- start: 2946.042
  end: 2951.546
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And in a sense, by re-baptizing, Cyprian is saying it does matter.
  zh: 从某种意义上说，通过重新施洗，西普里安是在说这确实重要。
- start: 2951.546
  end: 2962.494
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So if you were baptized by an ovationist, or whatever, and you want to come into the mainstream or the Catholic Church, you would need to be re-baptized.
  zh: 所以如果你是由诺瓦天派或其他人施洗的，而你想加入主流或公教会，你需要重新受洗。
- start: 2962.535
  end: 2964.296
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, Stephen gets wind of this.
  zh: 现在，斯蒂芬得知了这件事。
- start: 2965.131
  end: 2979.76
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: He's Bishop of Rome from 254 to 257. Stephen gets wind of this, that Cyprian is re-baptizing, and he says, wait a minute, Cyprian, stop doing that.
  zh: 他从254年到257年担任罗马主教。斯蒂芬得知西普里安在重新施洗，他说，等一下，西普里安，停止这样做。
- start: 2980.22
  end: 2994.709
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Novationists do not need to be re-baptized, because it doesn't matter whether the presider who administered a baptism is schismatic or not, or even a heretic or not.
  zh: 诺瓦天派不需要重新受洗，因为主持洗礼的人是否分裂主义者或甚至是否异端都无关紧要。
- start: 2995.171
  end: 2999.714
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Because ultimately it's God who does the baptizing, not a human being.
  zh: 因为最终是神在施洗，而不是人。
- start: 2999.814
  end: 3006.399
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so if we believe God is faithful, then the baptism is valid no matter who did it.
  zh: 所以如果我们相信神是信实的，那么无论谁施洗，洗礼都是有效的。
- start: 3007.299
  end: 3022.71
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, this is going to be, you know, kind of a conflict between Stephen and Cyprian because Cyprian, he might theoretically agree that everybody should agree with the Church of Rome on doctrinal issues, but he does not want to submit to the authority of the Bishop of Rome.
  zh: 现在，这将成为斯蒂芬和西普里安之间的一种冲突，因为西普里安，他在理论上可能同意每个人都应该在教义问题上与罗马教会一致，但他不想屈服于罗马主教的权威。
- start: 3024.99
  end: 3030.392
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so the question is going to be, what makes a valid baptism?
  zh: 所以问题将是，什么使洗礼有效？
- start: 3030.972
  end: 3038.054
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And Stephen, at first Stephen says, as long as a person is baptized into Christ, it's a valid baptism.
  zh: 斯蒂芬，一开始斯蒂芬说，只要一个人受洗归入基督，这就是有效的洗礼。
- start: 3038.114
  end: 3043.396
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But then his opponents press him on that and say, wait a minute, which Christ?
  zh: 但后来他的对手在这一点上追问他说，等一下，哪个基督？
- start: 3043.396
  end: 3047.697
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: What if Marcion baptized somebody into the docetic Christ?
  zh: 如果马吉安给某人施洗归入幻影说的基督怎么办？
- start: 3047.697
  end: 3051.478
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And then Stephen kind of backpedals a little bit and says, okay, well, I'll give you that.
  zh: 然后斯蒂芬有点退缩，说，好吧，我同意你的观点。
- start: 3052.015
  end: 3056.638
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: As long as a baptism is done in the name of the Trinity, then it's valid.
  zh: 只要洗礼是奉三位一体的名义进行的，那就是有效的。
- start: 3056.779
  end: 3061.482
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And that becomes the official position of the Church.
  zh: 这成为了教会的官方立场。
- start: 3061.482
  end: 3066.845
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: That a baptism, as long as it's done in the name of the Trinity, is valid.
  zh: 只要洗礼是奉三位一体的名义进行的，就是有效的。
- start: 3068.647
  end: 3077.833
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And in fact, in many churches, Roman Catholic included, to this day, technically speaking, especially in an emergency, anyone can do a baptism.
  zh: 事实上，在许多教会，包括罗马公教会，直到今天，从技术上讲，特别是在紧急情况下，任何人都可以施洗。
- start: 3078.434
  end: 3090.066
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: If a Buddhist comes along,  and baptizes someone in the name of the Trinity, and if they intend to do what the church does when it baptizes, that's the language, that baptism is valid, right?
  zh: 如果一个佛教徒来了，奉三位一体的名义给某人施洗，如果他们的意图是做教会施洗时所做的事，这就是说法，那洗礼是有效的，对吧？
- start: 3090.066
  end: 3099.593
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So a person doesn't even have to be, not only do they not have to be clergy, they don't even have to be Christian to effect a valid baptism because it's God who does the baptism.
  zh: 所以一个人甚至不必是，他们不仅不必是神职人员，他们甚至不必是基督徒就可以进行有效的洗礼，因为是神在施洗。
- start: 3099.774
  end: 3103.957
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But notice, notice the two different ways of looking at the church here.
  zh: 但请注意，这里有两种不同的看待教会的方式。
- start: 3103.957
  end: 3112.821
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Again, for Stephen, and the way I talk about this,  He has a Roman view of baptism.
  zh: 再次，对斯蒂芬来说，我谈论这个的方式是，他有一个罗马式的洗礼观。
- start: 3112.821
  end: 3114.162
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: That becomes the official view.
  zh: 这成为了官方观点。
- start: 3114.162
  end: 3118.205
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But in the Roman view of baptism, God does the baptizing.
  zh: 但在罗马的洗礼观中，是神在施洗。
- start: 3118.205
  end: 3121.187
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It's God who affects the validity of the sacrament.
  zh: 是神影响圣事的有效性。
- start: 3121.187
  end: 3127.051
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So the faith or orthodoxy of the presider doesn't matter.
  zh: 所以主持人的信仰或正统性并不重要。
- start: 3127.051
  end: 3130.092
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now look, this is important.
  zh: 现在看，这很重要。
- start: 3130.092
  end: 3132.874
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Here's the so what moment for tonight.
  zh: 这就是今晚的关键时刻。
- start: 3133.254
  end: 3134.515
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: What if you...
  zh: 如果你...
- start: 3134.695
  end: 3137.337
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: I mean, this is not just relevant to the Catholic Church.
  zh: 我的意思是，这不仅仅与公教会有关。
- start: 3137.337
  end: 3138.778
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: This could be relevant to any church.
  zh: 这可能与任何教会都有关。
- start: 3138.778
  end: 3147.171
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But what if you found out  that the guy who baptized you later turned out to be a pedophile or have done some horrible stuff.
  zh: 但如果你发现给你施洗的人后来被发现是恋童癖或做了一些可怕的事情怎么办。
- start: 3147.892
  end: 3150.233
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: That's my story.
  zh: 那是我的故事。
- start: 3150.233
  end: 3159.139
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Okay, well, I wasn't trying to get too personal, but it's important because, you know, does that invalidate your baptism?
  zh: 好吧，我并不是想太个人化，但这很重要，因为，你知道，这会使你的洗礼无效吗？
- start: 3159.139
  end: 3161.24
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And the church says, no, it does not.
  zh: 教会说，不，它不会。
- start: 3161.24
  end: 3170.578
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The faith or, you know, purity or whatever of the presider doesn't affect the validity of the baptism because it's God who did the baptism.
  zh: 主持人的信仰或，你知道，纯洁或其他什么并不影响洗礼的有效性，因为是神进行了洗礼。
- start: 3170.578
  end: 3198.085
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now Cyprian, though, who has this what I call a North African view of baptism, is saying that it does matter, that in a way, with the North African view of baptism, the grace is kind of like coming through the conduit of the presider, like the grace flows from God through the presider to the recipient, and if the presider is a king-toes, you know, it's going to stop that flow of grace.
  zh: 现在西普里安，尽管他有我所说的北非洗礼观，他说这确实重要，在某种程度上，按照北非洗礼观，恩典是通过主持人这个管道传递的，就像恩典从神通过主持人流向接受者，如果主持人是个罪人，你知道，它会阻止恩典的流动。
- start: 3198.413
  end: 3214.88
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So the North African view of baptism, in fact the sacraments in general, sort of has this assumption that if the presider is unfaithful, or a heretic, or whatever, that the sacraments are invalid.
  zh: 所以北非的洗礼观，实际上是对圣事的普遍看法，有这样一种假设，如果主持人不忠实，或是异端，或其他什么，那么圣事就是无效的。
- start: 3214.88
  end: 3222.883
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And ultimately, the Roman church, Stephen, and then what becomes the official view of the church says, no, it doesn't work that way, because God is faithful.
  zh: 最终，罗马教会、斯蒂芬，然后成为教会官方观点的说法是，不，它不是那样运作的，因为神是信实的。
- start: 3222.883
  end: 3238.011
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so it doesn't matter if you were baptized by a schismatic-like novation,  As long as the baptism is done in the name of the Trinity, the baptism is valid.
  zh: 所以即使你是由像诺瓦天这样的分裂者施洗的也无关紧要，只要洗礼是奉三位一体的名义进行的，洗礼就是有效的。
- start: 3238.512
  end: 3248.019
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But again, this tells you how they view the church and its relationship to the Holy Spirit, for example.
  zh: 但再次，这告诉你他们如何看待教会及其与圣灵的关系，例如。
- start: 3249.14
  end: 3256.001
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: For Cyprian, again, the Holy Spirit passes through the presider.
  zh: 对西普里安来说，再次，圣灵是通过主持人传递的。
- start: 3256.001
  end: 3261.062
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Could be the same thing with ordination later, as ordination becomes a sacrament, right?
  zh: 后来的按立也可能是同样的情况，因为按立成为一种圣事，对吧？
- start: 3261.062
  end: 3266.984
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: We're going to see this when we get to the fourth century in the conflict between Augustine and the Donatists.
  zh: 当我们到达四世纪奥古斯丁和多纳徒派之间的冲突时，我们会看到这一点。
- start: 3266.984
  end: 3268.624
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: We're going to see this.
  zh: 我们将会看到这一点。
- start: 3268.624
  end: 3278.106
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: What happens if you find out your bishop was consecrated by another bishop who lapsed during the last persecution?
  zh: 如果你发现你的主教是由另一个在上次迫害中曾背教的主教祝圣的，会发生什么？
- start: 3278.426
  end: 3280.827
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Is your bishop not a valid bishop?
  zh: 你的主教是否不是一个有效的主教？
- start: 3281.167
  end: 3282.907
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: That issue will come up.
  zh: 这个问题将会出现。
- start: 3282.907
  end: 3298.329
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So this question with the sacraments is,  whether the presider is a conduit of grace that can block grace, or whether grace doesn't flow through the presider but directly from God to the recipient.
  zh: 所以关于圣事的这个问题是，主持人是否是可以阻挡恩典的恩典管道，还是恩典不通过主持人而是直接从神流向接受者。
- start: 3298.329
  end: 3303.133
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So the Roman view becomes the official view that sacraments are...
  zh: 所以罗马观点成为官方观点，即圣事是...
- start: 3303.133
  end: 3309.116
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: By the way, in fact, the word sacrament in Latin, sacramentum, simply means mystery.
  zh: 顺便说一下，事实上，拉丁语中的圣事一词sacramentum，简单地说就是奥秘。
- start: 3310.097
  end: 3318.659
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: If you want to translate it,  The sacraments are the mysteries of the church.
  zh: 如果你想翻译它，圣事就是教会的奥秘。
- start: 3318.659
  end: 3319.379
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Why are they mysteries?
  zh: 为什么它们是奥秘？
- start: 3319.379
  end: 3321.52
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Because God is at work.
  zh: 因为神在工作。
- start: 3322.781
  end: 3338.488
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It's not a magic trick and it's not simply some person who is making a transaction where I'm going to get some grace and give it to you, but you need me to give it to you.
  zh: 这不是魔术，也不仅仅是某个人在进行交易，我要得到一些恩典并给你，但你需要我给你。
- start: 3338.488
  end: 3339.768
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It's not quite like that.
  zh: 并不完全是那样的。
- start: 3339.768
  end: 3358.476
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So it's interesting that  The mainstream church, for all of its emphasis on a hierarchical authority and an apostolic authority and an apostolic succession, yet when the rubber meets the road with the sacraments, what makes it valid is simply that it's done correctly.
  zh: 所以有趣的是，主流教会尽管强调等级权威、使徒权威和使徒继承，但当涉及到圣事的实际操作时，使其有效的只是它被正确地执行。
- start: 3360.237
  end: 3369.381
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It's possible to have an invalid baptism by not baptizing in the name of the Trinity, but assuming it's done correctly, it doesn't matter who did it.
  zh: 如果不是奉三位一体的名施洗，洗礼可能是无效的，但假设它被正确执行，谁做的并不重要。
- start: 3373.624
  end: 3387.656
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Another thing that we're seeing here in baptism, just to point this out, is that, especially in Rome, we're beginning to see this is where baptism and confirmation start to become separate rites.
  zh: 我们在洗礼中看到的另一件事，只是想指出这一点，特别是在罗马，我们开始看到洗礼和坚信礼开始成为分开的仪式。
- start: 3387.937
  end: 3392.66
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Remember I told you at the beginning that baptism and confirmation were one thing.
  zh: 记得我一开始告诉你洗礼和坚信礼是一回事。
- start: 3392.901
  end: 3402.533
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But the more you baptize infants, which they absolutely were doing,  The more you baptize infants, the more you have to postpone the confirmation until later.
  zh: 但是你给婴儿施洗越多，他们确实在这样做，你给婴儿施洗越多，你就越需要把坚信礼推迟到以后。
- start: 3402.533
  end: 3413.9
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Let me stop there and see if there are questions or discussion based on the controversies over reconciliation or baptism.
  zh: 让我在这里停下来，看看是否有基于和解或洗礼争议的问题或讨论。
- start: 3413.9
  end: 3414.541
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Is that a question?
  zh: 那是一个问题吗？
- start: 3414.541
  end: 3420.144
  speaker: SPEAKER_B
  en: The apostolic tradition, how does that relate to what we're talking about now?
  zh: 使徒传统，它与我们现在讨论的内容有什么关系？
- start: 3420.144
  end: 3423.366
  speaker: SPEAKER_B
  en: Are you talking about the document, the apostolic tradition?
  zh: 你说的是那份文件，使徒传统吗？
- start: 3423.366
  end: 3431.903
  speaker: SPEAKER_B
  en: Basically what I'm thinking about is that listing of occupations  There were certain things that you couldn't do for a living.
  zh: 基本上我在想的是那份职业列表，有些事情你不能以此为生。
- start: 3431.903
  end: 3463.115
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But again, the very fact that somebody felt the need to make that list meant that there were probably musicians  There were magicians who wanted to join the church or whatever, and so it was an issue.
  zh: 但再次，有人觉得有必要制定那份清单这一事实意味着可能有音乐家，有魔术师想加入教会或其他什么，所以这是一个问题。
- start: 3463.235
  end: 3470.118
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: With these documents, like the Apostolic Tradition, and there are others, I referred to them earlier as the Church Order documents.
  zh: 对于这些文件，像《使徒传统》，还有其他的，我之前称它们为教会秩序文件。
- start: 3470.579
  end: 3474.521
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: For the most part, the Apostolic Tradition is a good example.
  zh: 在大多数情况下，《使徒传统》是一个很好的例子。
- start: 3474.521
  end: 3477.242
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It's traditionally attributed to Hippolytus.
  zh: 它传统上被认为是希波吕托斯所写。
- start: 3477.482
  end: 3482.096
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And maybe Hippolytus wrote a document called the Apostolic Tradition.
  zh: 也许希波吕托斯确实写了一份叫《使徒传统》的文件。
- start: 3482.096
  end: 3486.659
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But the document that we have now has all kinds of layers added to it.
  zh: 但我们现在拥有的文件已经添加了各种层次。
- start: 3486.659
  end: 3492.142
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So when you read these documents, you can't pin them down to one point in the church's history.
  zh: 所以当你阅读这些文件时，你不能将它们固定在教会历史的某一点上。
- start: 3492.142
  end: 3500.987
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: In fact, what scholars are doing now is they're looking at the documents saying, oh, this chunk is from early, and this chunk is from late, and you're looking for the layers.
  zh: 事实上，学者们现在正在做的是看这些文件说，哦，这部分是早期的，这部分是晚期的，你在寻找这些层次。
- start: 3500.987
  end: 3512.824
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But these are documents that what ends up happening is somebody writes a church order document, say this is how we should do things,  But as that document gets copied and passed down, they add to it.
  zh: 但这些文件最终发生的是，有人写了一份教会秩序文件，说这就是我们应该如何做事，但随着该文件被复制和传下去，他们会添加内容。
- start: 3513.104
  end: 3517.948
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And they embellish on it, oh well this is what we do now, so I'll throw that in there.
  zh: 他们会对其进行修饰，哦，这就是我们现在的做法，所以我把它加进去。
- start: 3517.948
  end: 3523.613
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So the documents as we have them now are not in the form that they were in originally.
  zh: 所以我们现在拥有的文件不是它们最初的形式。
- start: 3523.613
  end: 3530.859
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So when you read those documents, you're really looking at fourth century stuff in there too.
  zh: 所以当你阅读那些文件时，你实际上也在看四世纪的东西。
- start: 3530.859
  end: 3532.501
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So a lot of that stuff is coming later.
  zh: 所以很多内容是后来添加的。
- start: 3532.501
  end: 3552.607
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Especially when you get into the ones that talk about how ordination is done because  You look at how they would do their rite or their rituals of ordination, and it's clear that it's post-Constantinian because there are elements in there that look like the rituals from crowning a king and stuff like that.
  zh: 特别是当你看到那些讲述如何进行按立的内容时，因为你看他们如何进行按立仪式或仪式，很明显这是君士坦丁后期的，因为其中有一些元素看起来像加冕国王的仪式之类的。
- start: 3552.607
  end: 3555.189
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So there's all this sort of embellishment that comes in.
  zh: 所以有所有这些类型的修饰被加入进来。
- start: 3555.99
  end: 3558.413
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: What else?
  zh: 还有什么？
- start: 3558.413
  end: 3559.294
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Questions?
  zh: 有问题吗？
- start: 3559.294
  end: 3560.895
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Comments at this point?
  zh: 在这一点上有什么评论吗？
- start: 3562.265
  end: 3569.528
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Well, let me come full circle then and just talk a little bit about the end of the persecution and I'll be done in maybe five minutes or so.
  zh: 好吧，让我回到原点，简单谈谈迫害的结束，我大约五分钟就讲完。
- start: 3569.528
  end: 3577.931
  speaker: SPEAKER_B
  en: Back when I mentioned Nero, I meant like the 666, I thought that was supposedly Nero.
  zh: 当我之前提到尼禄时，我指的是666，我以为那据说是指尼禄。
- start: 3577.931
  end: 3579.431
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Oh yeah, no, it's not.
  zh: 哦，是的，不，不是的。
- start: 3579.431
  end: 3599.455
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Some books say that, but it's not because Nero's persecution was too short and too limited to the city of Rome  I think most people date the book of Revelation to the reign of Domitian in about the year 95. The number 666 is one of those things that you could make it anybody's name almost.
  zh: 一些书是这么说的，但不是因为尼禄的迫害太短暂且仅限于罗马城。我认为大多数人将启示录的写作时间定在多米田统治时期，大约公元95年。666这个数字是那种你几乎可以用任何人的名字来解释的东西。
- start: 3610.809
  end: 3613.771
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Do the math on that and say, oh look, Ronald Reagan.
  zh: 对此进行计算，然后说，哦看，罗纳德·里根。
- start: 3613.771
  end: 3621.616
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: You can make it say almost anybody, but the one that fits the best with the imperial titles and all that would have been Domitian.
  zh: 你可以让它指几乎任何人，但最符合帝国头衔和所有那些的人应该是多米田。
- start: 3622.157
  end: 3630.342
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: To me, that is clearly, when that's written in the text and John writes that, that's a reference to the current emperor at the time the book was written.
  zh: 对我来说，很明显，当约翰在文本中写下这个时，那是指写书时的当前皇帝。
- start: 3631.604
  end: 3635.688
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Under Decius, were there people who were converting to Christianity under his empire?
  zh: 在德修统治下，他的帝国中有人皈依基督教吗？
- start: 3635.688
  end: 3637.55
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: People who were working directly for him?
  zh: 直接为他工作的人？
- start: 3637.55
  end: 3640.693
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And were they letting people into the church if they decided to?
  zh: 如果他们决定的话，他们会让人们进入教会吗？
- start: 3641.694
  end: 3648.281
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Well, I don't know of anyone particular in Decius' own household who was Christian.
  zh: 嗯，我不知道德修自己家中有任何特定的基督徒。
- start: 3648.281
  end: 3649.641
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: There may have been.
  zh: 可能有过。
- start: 3650.162
  end: 3655.187
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But certainly there would have been people converting all the time.
  zh: 但肯定一直有人在皈依。
- start: 3655.194
  end: 3656.615
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Even within the upper classes.
  zh: 甚至在上层阶级中也是如此。
- start: 3656.615
  end: 3662.74
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: The more time goes on, the more we see people in the upper classes, even in the senatorial class, converting.
  zh: 随着时间的推移，我们看到越来越多的上层阶级，甚至元老院阶级的人在皈依。
- start: 3662.74
  end: 3669.865
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But then, you know, in the highest socioeconomic classes, it's going to be mostly women.
  zh: 但是，你知道，在最高社会经济阶层，主要是女性。
- start: 3669.886
  end: 3678.252
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Because the men are still trying to pursue an upwardly mobile career in the Roman, you know, government.
  zh: 因为男性仍在努力在罗马政府中追求向上流动的事业。
- start: 3678.252
  end: 3684.977
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so that would conflict with, you know, the expectations of being baptized Christians.
  zh: 所以这会与成为受洗基督徒的期望相冲突。
- start: 3686.988
  end: 3690.49
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It's happening all the way through this.
  zh: 这种情况一直在发生。
- start: 3690.971
  end: 3700.799
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: When we get to the so-called great persecution of the early 4th century, we'll see how the wives of a couple of the emperors may have been Christian.
  zh: 当我们讲到4世纪初所谓的大迫害时，我们会看到一些皇帝的妻子可能是基督徒。
- start: 3700.799
  end: 3707.543
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Just a little bit of wrap-up then.
  zh: 那么就简单总结一下。
- start: 3710.205
  end: 3737.582
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: As I said, the Roman way of looking at the sacraments and the church will become the official point of view of the church and will sort of win out over the North African way, except that, again, when we get to Augustine and we look at his conflict with the Donatists, that was all taking place in North Africa, but Augustine represents the Roman outlook and the Donatists are the North Africans, so we'll see that when we get there.
  zh: 正如我所说，罗马看待圣事和教会的方式将成为教会的官方观点，并在某种程度上战胜北非的方式，除了当我们讲到奥古斯丁并看他与多纳徒派的冲突时，那都发生在北非，但奥古斯丁代表罗马的观点，而多纳徒派是北非人，所以我们到那里时会看到这一点。
- start: 3739.232
  end: 3745.054
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Decius' persecution didn't last all that long because after a couple of years he's killed in battle.
  zh: 德修的迫害并没有持续很长时间，因为几年后他在战斗中被杀。
- start: 3746.675
  end: 3752.857
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Eventually, the emperor Valerian comes to the throne.
  zh: 最终，瓦勒良皇帝登上王位。
- start: 3753.278
  end: 3761.021
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Valerian becomes emperor in 253, and in 257 he renews the persecution.
  zh: 瓦勒良在253年成为皇帝，在257年他重新开始迫害。
- start: 3761.721
  end: 3769.529
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so, again, thinking that the church is getting too powerful, too wealthy,  Penetrating too far into the upper classes.
  zh: 所以，再次认为教会变得太强大，太富有，渗透到上层阶级太深。
- start: 3770.01
  end: 3776.875
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so Valerian's persecution targeted specifically church leaders, teachers, evangelists, clergy.
  zh: 因此，瓦勒良的迫害特别针对教会领袖、教师、传教士和神职人员。
- start: 3777.215
  end: 3795.71
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so it was in 258, both the duly elected bishop of Rome, Cornelius, and Novatian, his rival, were martyred.
  zh: 所以在258年，罗马合法选出的主教科尼利和他的对手诺瓦天都殉道了。
- start: 3796.323
  end: 3810.373
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It's one of these situations, we saw it with Hippolytus too, where there are these rivals within the church, but they end up dying side by side as martyrs.
  zh: 这是一种情况，我们在希波吕托身上也看到了，教会内部有这些对手，但他们最终并肩作为殉道者死去。
- start: 3811.014
  end: 3826.566
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But anyway, Valerian issued two edicts in 257 and 258. Again, targeting the church leaders, all bishops required to make the sacrifice.
  zh: 但无论如何，瓦勒良在257年和258年颁布了两项敕令。再次针对教会领袖，要求所有主教进行祭祀。
- start: 3827.227
  end: 3830.928
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Christian assembly outlawed on pain of death.
  zh: 基督徒集会被禁止，违者处死。
- start: 3831.728
  end: 3836.53
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And then in 258, he must have decided, you know, what am I messing around for?
  zh: 然后在258年，他一定决定了，你知道，我在瞎折腾什么？
- start: 3836.53
  end: 3839.99
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: All clergy are condemned to death.
  zh: 所有神职人员都被判处死刑。
- start: 3842.211
  end: 3862.669
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And so, he actually was captured in battle in 260, and his son became the next emperor, and his son decided to ease up on the persecution and basically restore the church  to its former status before Decius, which is not exactly legal, but tolerated.
  zh: 所以，他实际上在260年的战斗中被俘虏，他的儿子成为下一任皇帝，他的儿子决定放松迫害，基本上将教会恢复到德修之前的状态，这并不完全合法，但被容忍。
- start: 3863.83
  end: 3868.413
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So, after 260, I'm almost done, I swear.
  zh: 所以，260年之后，我快讲完了，我发誓。
- start: 3868.773
  end: 3872.796
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: After 260, the church is able to relax.
  zh: 260年之后，教会能够放松了。
- start: 3872.796
  end: 3874.497
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Persecution is over.
  zh: 迫害结束了。
- start: 3874.637
  end: 3877.419
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And people think persecution is over for good.
  zh: 人们认为迫害永远结束了。
- start: 3877.419
  end: 3882.742
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, in 40 years it's coming back, and the church will get complacent in that 40 years.
  zh: 现在，40年后它又回来了，而教会在那40年里会变得自满。
- start: 3883.171
  end: 3923.653
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But it's within that 40-year span, when Christianity is not legal yet, but the persecution eased up, it's within that 40-year span of time that the church begins to own property as a corporate entity, and the church goes from simply worshipping in homes to modifying homes, to remodel homes so that they're specifically used for worship, so we start to have  Designated worship space where maybe some wealthy person will donate a home or an apartment space that will be gutted and remodeled and used only for worship.
  zh: 但就在那40年的时间里，当基督教还不合法，但迫害缓解了，就在那40年的时间里，教会开始作为一个团体拥有财产，教会从简单地在家中崇拜转变为改造房屋，重新装修房屋以专门用于崇拜，所以我们开始有了指定的崇拜空间，也许一些富人会捐赠一个房子或公寓空间，这些空间会被清空和重新装修，只用于崇拜。
- start: 3923.653
  end: 3927.795
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And maybe a baptistry added on to it.
  zh: 也许还会加上一个洗礼池。
- start: 3928.095
  end: 3933.378
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: We're not getting buildings built specifically as churches yet, but that's coming.
  zh: 我们还没有专门建造教堂的建筑，但那即将到来。
- start: 3933.618
  end: 3937.6
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But we're getting to the point now where there is designated worship space.
  zh: 但我们现在已经到了有指定崇拜空间的地步。
- start: 3937.915
  end: 3950.24
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Within this time, maybe now you could walk down the street and see a church, although it wouldn't look like anything because it was originally built for some other purpose.
  zh: 在这段时间里，也许你现在可以在街上走走看到一个教会，尽管它看起来不像什么，因为它最初是为其他目的而建的。
- start: 3950.24
  end: 3965.647
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: But eventually, by the turn of the 4th century, it's going to get to the point where the emperor in the East  Can look out his window and see the church.
  zh: 但最终，到了4世纪初，东方的皇帝可以从窗户往外看，看到教会。
- start: 3965.927
  end: 3967.328
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And he's not going to like it.
  zh: 而他不会喜欢这样。
- start: 3967.528
  end: 3971.01
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So, that's coming next week.
  zh: 所以，这是下周的内容。
- start: 3971.03
  end: 3973.551
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Now, questions or comments at this point?
  zh: 现在，在这一点上有什么问题或评论吗？
- start: 3976.093
  end: 3978.294
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: No? Everybody tired?
  zh: 没有吗？大家都累了？
- start: 3978.854
  end: 3980.315
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Yeah, me too.
  zh: 是的，我也是。
- start: 3981.015
  end: 3982.116
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Last chance.
  zh: 最后一次机会。
- start: 3982.316
  end: 3984.817
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: I know nobody wants to be that person who asks the question.
  zh: 我知道没人想成为那个提问的人。
- start: 3984.817
  end: 3988.059
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: I want to go home, but I'll give you one more chance.
  zh: 我想回家，但我再给你们一次机会。
- start: 3988.159
  end: 3989.1
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Tickety-tock.
  zh: 时间滴答滴答。
- start: 3989.1
  end: 3989.844
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 3989.844
  end: 3994.191
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: Good, well then we'll see you next Monday for the Feast of Perpetua.
  zh: 好的，那么我们下周一佩尔佩图阿纪念日再见。
- start: 3994.232
  end: 3996.736
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: And if you want to bring food to share, you're welcome.
  zh: 如果你想带食物来分享，欢迎你这样做。
- start: 3996.736
  end: 4000.022
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: It's not an obligation, but you're welcome to do that.
  zh: 这不是义务，但欢迎你这样做。
- start: 4000.022
  end: 4000.563
  speaker: SPEAKER_A
  en: So we'll see you then.
  zh: 那么我们到时候见。
