- start: 20.579
  end: 26.76
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Let us ask Our Lady's intercession to help penetrate more deeply into the mystery of the Eucharist.
  zh: 让我们请求圣母代祷，帮助我们更深入地领会圣餐的奥秘。
- start: 26.76
  end: 29.699
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.
  zh: 万福马利亚，你充满恩典，主与你同在。
- start: 29.699
  end: 34.299
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Blessed are thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
  zh: 你在妇女中受赞美，你的胎儿耶稣同样受赞美。
- start: 34.299
  end: 39.499
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.
  zh: 圣母马利亚，神之母，现在和我们临终时为我们罪人祈祷。
- start: 39.499
  end: 40.459
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Amen.
  zh: 阿们。
- start: 40.459
  end: 58.719
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So in this fifth episode, we're going to examine something less familiar probably to my, to an- to the viewers, and that is the Berengarian controversy, um, over the real presence in the 11th century, and we'll also look at an even more obscure controversy in the ninth century.
  zh: 所以在第五集里，我们将探讨一个对我和观众来说可能较不熟悉的主题，那就是十一世纪关于真实临在的贝伦加里争议，同时我们还会看看九世纪一个更为晦涩的争议。
- start: 58.719
  end: 68.619
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So what we're doing here is we're transitioning, um, to the real presence, to look at the, the mystery of presence, but at the same time, we're continuing our historical survey.
  zh: 我们现在正在转向真实临在，来探讨临在的奥秘，但同时也继续我们的历史考察。
- start: 68.619
  end: 91.679
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So in the last episode, we looked at the fathers of the church, and now we're going to look at the next period, the, um, the time, um, from the 9th to the 11th or 12th centuries, um, in, in which time the real presence became for the first time really, um, since the Gnostics, um, an object of controversy.
  zh: 上一集我们研究了教父时期，现在我们要看下一个时期，也就是九世纪到十一或十二世纪这段时间，在这期间，真实临在自诺斯底主义者以来，首次真正成为争议的焦点。
- start: 91.679
  end: 102.499
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So the Patristic Period was full of all kinds of controversies, as we know, over the Trinity, over the Incarnation, original sin, Pelagianism, the necessity of grace, use of images.
  zh: 教父时期充满了各种争议，比如关于三位一体、道成肉身、原罪、伯拉纠主义、恩典的必要性以及偶像的使用。
- start: 102.499
  end: 110.319
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But the Eucharist was not a key subject of controversy after the- the initial, um, kind of controversy over Docetism.
  zh: 但在最初关于幻影说的争议之后，圣餐并不是一个主要的争议主题。
- start: 110.319
  end: 122.239
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But it became a subject of controversy, um, beginning brief- in a brief episode in the ninth century and then much more strongly in the 11th century, as we'll see in this talk.
  zh: 但圣餐争议开始于九世纪的一个短暂时期，随后在十一世纪变得更加激烈，正如我们将在本次讲述中看到的。
- start: 122.239
  end: 138.359
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And this controversy, um, in the 11th century was fruitful as we'll see also, leading the church to have to, um, in order to- to respond to Berengarius, to clarify her understanding of the mystery.
  zh: 十一世纪的这场争议非常有成果，正如我们将看到的，它促使教会必须回应贝伦加里，澄清对这一奥秘的理解。
- start: 138.359
  end: 145.859
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So let's start with a very obscure, um, dispute in the 9th century.
  zh: 那么我们先从九世纪一个非常晦涩的争议开始。
- start: 145.859
  end: 152.439
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The 9th century was that brief Carolingian renaissance, about the- after the time of, um, Charlemagne.
  zh: 九世纪是加洛林文艺复兴的短暂时期，大约发生在查理曼大帝之后。
- start: 152.439
  end: 177.279
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: There was a certain, um, cultural stability in Europe for a very brief period, and in this time, um, we have our first Eucharistic treaties written by, um, Saint Paschasius Robertus, not a household name, but, um, he's worthy of being known for the great, um, treaties on the Eucharist in that, um, year 833 on the body and blood of the Lord.
  zh: 欧洲在这段时间内有一段短暂的文化稳定期，这时出现了我们第一批关于圣餐的论述，作者是圣帕斯卡修斯·罗伯图斯，虽然不太为人所知，但他因在833年写下关于主的身体和血的伟大论述而值得被认识。
- start: 177.279
  end: 200.379
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And interestingly, one of his students, another monk in the same abbey named Ratramnus, um, took issue, disagreed with his master and wrote a work with the same title rebutting, um Saint Paschasius' treatise, and Ratramnus posed two questions which will help our- um, help us to clarify the mystery of the real presence.
  zh: 有趣的是，他的一个学生，同一修道院的另一位修士拉特拉姆努斯，对他的观点提出异议，写了一部同名著作反驳圣帕斯卡修斯的论述。拉特拉姆努斯提出了两个问题，有助于我们澄清真实临在的奥秘。
- start: 200.379
  end: 230.879
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So the first question he asked was, "Does the Eucharist contain the body of Christ in figure or in truth?" And then the second question, "Does the Eucharist contain the very same body which was born of Mary, suffered, died, was buried, which rose again, ascended to heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father?" And he- he poses that question, Saint Paschasius very strongly affirmed that, but Ratramnus, um, was disputing it.
  zh: 他提出的第一个问题是：「圣餐是象征基督的身体，还是基督的真实身体？」第二个问题是：「圣餐中是否包含那位由马利亚所生、受难、死亡、埋葬、复活、升天并坐在父神右边的同一具身体？」圣帕斯卡修斯坚决肯定后者，但拉特拉姆努斯对此持异议。
- start: 230.879
  end: 232.779
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Uh, so let's look at the first question.
  zh: 那么我们先来看第一个问题。
- start: 232.779
  end: 249.479
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"Does the Eucharist contain the body of Christ in figure or in truth?" Right, this is a classic example of a bad way of posing a question, because the question is posed as an either/or, right, in figure or in truth?'
  zh: 「圣餐是象征基督的身体，还是基督的真实身体？」这其实是一个典型的错误提问方式，因为它把问题设定成非此即彼，是象征还是实质？
- start: 249.479
  end: 254.759
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And the- the answer is, as so often the case in Catholic theology, is both/and.
  zh: 而答案，正如公教神学中常见的，是两者兼有。
- start: 254.759
  end: 261.059
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Right, Christ is present in figure, and that is through the appearances of the bread and wine, right?
  zh: 基督确实以象征的形式临在，这就是通过面包和酒的外观表现出来的。
- start: 261.059
  end: 264.099
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The appearances are sacramental signs.
  zh: 这些外观是圣事的标记。
- start: 264.099
  end: 269.359
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But under those sacramental signs, Christ's body is present in truth.
  zh: 但在这些圣事标记之下，基督的身体是真实临在的。
- start: 269.359
  end: 270.899
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 270.899
  end: 293.139
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Ratramnus thought that his master Saint Paschasius was only affirming the truth, um, and not affirming the, um, the sign, and so he, um, held that Christ is present only in sign and not in truth, and what he didn't consider was the both/and.
  zh: 拉特拉姆努斯认为他的师父圣帕斯卡修斯只肯定了真实临在，却没有肯定象征，因此他主张基督仅以象征临在，而非真实临在，他没有考虑到两者兼有的可能。
- start: 293.139
  end: 297.359
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so the right answer is yes.
  zh: 所以正确的答案是肯定的。
- start: 297.359
  end: 306.679
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The signs of bread and wine continue, but under them, after the consecration, Christ is present in the truth of his body.
  zh: 面包和酒的标记依然存在，但在祝圣之后，基督的身体真实地临在于其中。
- start: 306.679
  end: 307.139
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: All right.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 307.139
  end: 309.459
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: What kind of bodily presence is this?
  zh: 这是一种怎样的身体临在？
- start: 309.459
  end: 318.339
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Is it the very same body born of Mary, suffered, died, and was buried, rose again, ascended into heaven, and now sits at the right hand of the- of the Father?
  zh: 是那位由马利亚所生、受难、死亡、埋葬、复活、升天并坐在父神右边的同一具身体吗？
- start: 318.339
  end: 324.139
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, Ratramnus answered no because he saw it just as a figure, right?
  zh: 拉特拉姆努斯回答不是，因为他只把它看作象征。
- start: 324.139
  end: 332.159
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: If it's just a figure, if it's just bread and wine pointing as a sign of Christ's body and blood, clearly it's not the same body.
  zh: 如果只是象征，只是面包和酒作为基督身体和血的标记，显然就不是同一具身体。
- start: 332.159
  end: 344.479
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But Saint Paschasius, um, rightly affirmed it is the very same body, born of Mary, suffered, died, was buried, and rose.
  zh: 但圣帕斯卡修斯正确地肯定，那确实是同一具由马利亚所生、受难、死亡、埋葬并复活的身体。
- start: 344.479
  end: 350.239
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But after this, so this contrary was left open.
  zh: 但此后，这个对立观点仍未解决。
- start: 350.239
  end: 358.599
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It wasn't determined by, um, um, papal or met- um, episcopal authority because of the Dark Ages, right?
  zh: 由于黑暗时代的缘故，这个问题没有被教宗或主教权威所定论。
- start: 358.599
  end: 361.569
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The, um, the-...
  zh: 那个……
- start: 361.569
  end: 368.729
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: the peace of the time of Charlemagne disintegrated and, um, and the, the country was simply left.
  zh: 查理曼时代的和平瓦解了，国家陷入了混乱。
- start: 368.729
  end: 407.869
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And, um, came back two centuries later, um, through Berengarius, um, who was a theologian, um, and philosopher of the 11th century, mid-11th century, and he, um, came upon Retramnus' treaties, um, and basically revived Retramnus' um, position, that the Eucharist is just a sign or figure of Christ's body and blood, and therefore, is not the same body, born of Mary, um, nailed to the cross, risen, and ascended into heaven, but a mere sign.
  zh: 两百年后，十一世纪中叶的神学家兼哲学家贝伦加里重新提出了拉特拉姆努斯的论点，认为圣餐只是基督身体和血的标记或象征，因此不是那具由马利亚所生、钉十字架、复活并升天的同一身体，而仅仅是一个象征。
- start: 407.869
  end: 415.369
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And the reason he held this was, um, he was, um...
  zh: 他持此观点的原因是……
- start: 415.369
  end: 423.93
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So this is a time of the- the beginning of the discovery of Aristotle, and of his- above all, his logical works, The Categories of Aristotle...
  zh: 这是亚里士多德哲学被重新发现的时期，尤其是他的逻辑著作《范畴篇》。
- start: 423.93
  end: 447.889
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Uh, sorry, um, Aristotle's Categories speak of the different modes of being, substance and accidents, and, um, Berengarius thought that it would simply be impossible for Christ, for the, um, the bread and the wine to, um, become another substance while keeping the accidents or appearances of the previous one.
  zh: 亚里士多德的《范畴篇》讲述了存在的不同方式，即实体和属性。贝伦加里认为，基督、面包和酒不可能在保持原有属性或外观的同时，变成另一种实体。
- start: 447.889
  end: 452.549
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, and so he thought that was, um, contradictory and impossible.
  zh: 因此他认为这是矛盾且不可能的。
- start: 452.549
  end: 465.17
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And likewise, he thought it would be impossible for Christ to be one, present in heaven, and also, um, on many altars in numerous hosts throughout the world.
  zh: 同样，他认为基督不可能既在天上独一无二地临在，又同时在世界各地无数祭坛上的圣餐中临在。
- start: 465.17
  end: 473.33
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, and he thought it would be, yeah, contradictory for the accents to remain while the substance was changed.
  zh: 他认为实体改变而属性不变是矛盾的。
- start: 473.33
  end: 484.769
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, it's, h- he held that Christ was present in some way, spiritually present, and there were two opinions among his followers.
  zh: 他认为基督以某种方式灵性临在，他的追随者中对此有两种看法。
- start: 484.769
  end: 488.429
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Some held, all right, he's present simply as a sign.
  zh: 有些人认为，基督仅仅作为一个象征临在。
- start: 488.429
  end: 495.549
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Others held that he's present in some more mysterious way, um, in the bread and wine.
  zh: 另一些人则认为基督以某种更神秘的方式临在于面包和酒中。
- start: 495.549
  end: 508.009
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, and, um, interestingly, these two understandings of the Doctrine of Berengarius would resurface four centuries later at the time of the Reformation.
  zh: 有趣的是，贝伦加里的这两种教义理解在四个世纪后的宗教改革时期再次出现。
- start: 508.009
  end: 539.989
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, the more radical, um, part of the Reformation championed by Zwingli, and continued by Calvin, held, um, really a f- e- simply a figure of Christ physically present in heaven, whereas Luther, um, held that Christ was really present in the bread and the wine, um, but all of them denied a conversion of bread and wine into Christ's body and blood, and likewise, Berengarius clearly denied that.
  zh: 宗教改革中更激进的一派，由茨温利倡导，后来由加尔文延续，主张圣餐只是象征，基督实际在天上；而路德则认为基督真实临在于面包和酒中，但他们都否认面包和酒实质转变为基督的身体和血，贝伦加里也明确否认这一点。
- start: 539.989
  end: 550.029
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: All right, so this caused a huge controversy, and Berengarius was forced to retract his position and take an oath to them.
  zh: 这引发了巨大的争议，贝伦加里被迫撤回他的立场并向教会宣誓。
- start: 550.029
  end: 558.329
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And there was an initial oath that was required of him, which was imperfectly, um, imperfectly expressed the Church's faith.
  zh: 他最初被要求宣誓，但那次宣誓并未完全表达教会的信仰。
- start: 558.329
  end: 559.969
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I'll come back to it in a few minutes.
  zh: 我稍后会再谈到这点。
- start: 559.969
  end: 566.509
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And then a more perfect formulation, um, that he was required to- to make it, uh, towards the end of his life.
  zh: 后来在他临终前，他被要求作出更完善的表述。
- start: 566.509
  end: 570.549
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And I'm just gonna read that to you, the great text.
  zh: 我现在就给大家读这段重要的文本。
- start: 570.549
  end: 601.409
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So, he was required to say this, "I, Berengarius, in my heart believe and with my lips confess that through the mystery of the sacred prayer, and the words of our Redeemer, the bread and the wine that are placed on the altar are substantially changed into the true and proper and living flesh and blood of Jesus Christ, our Lord." So the key words there are substantially changed.
  zh: 他被要求宣称：「我，贝伦加里，内心相信并口中承认，借着圣祷的奥秘和我们救主的话语，摆在祭坛上的面包和酒实质上转变为我们主耶稣基督真实、正当且活生生的身体和血。」这里的关键词是“实质上转变”。
- start: 601.409
  end: 636.029
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Then he continues, "And that after the consecration, it is the true body of Christ that was born of the Virgin, and that offered for the salvation of the world, was suspended on the cross, and that sits at the right hand of the Father, and the true blood of Christ, which was poured out from his side, not only through the sign and power of the sacrament, but in its proper nature and in the truth of its substance." In fact, that was the oath.
  zh: 接着他说：「祝圣之后，这是真正的基督身体，由童贞女所生，为拯救世人而献上，被钉在十字架上，现坐在父神右边；这也是真正的基督之血，从他肋旁流出，不仅凭借圣事的标记和能力，更是在其本质和实质的真实中。」这就是他的宣誓内容。
- start: 636.029
  end: 640.329
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This was composed by Pope, um, Gregory the s- Saint Gregory VII.
  zh: 这段宣誓由教宗圣格雷戈里七世起草。
- start: 640.329
  end: 661.069
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And it's a milestone in Catholic theology because it's the first magisterial statement, um, speaking of a substantial conversion of bread and wine into Christ's body and blood, and the substantial presence of Christ in, um, present in the truth of his nature.
  zh: 这是公教神学的一个里程碑，因为这是首次由权威机构明确声明面包和酒实质转变为基督的身体和血，以及基督以其本性的真实临在。
- start: 661.069
  end: 662.309
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That is, human nature.
  zh: 也就是他的人的本性。
- start: 662.309
  end: 701.089
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so it affirmed what was, um, um, what Retramnus had asked two centuries earlier, "Is it the same body born of Mary?" And th- this definition clearly says, "Yes, it is the true body of Christ, born of the Virgin, um, nailed to the cross, sits at the right hand of the Father, and the blood that was poured out from his side, um, at his death." Now, this controversy ended up being extremely fruitful, as I mentioned, for the development of Scholastic theology on the Eucharist, and Scholastic theology in general.
  zh: 因此它肯定了两百年前拉特拉姆努斯提出的问题：「这是不是同一具由马利亚所生的身体？」这个定义明确回答：「是的，这是真正的基督身体，由童贞女所生，被钉十字架，坐在父神右边，流出血液于他死时。」正如我所说，这场争议极大地促进了圣餐神学和经院神学的发展。
- start: 701.089
  end: 717.249
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The heirs of Berengarius, which came from a- a Rationalist perspective and a poor philosophy, were met, um, not by simply re- So, there could have been a temptation for Catholic theologians to be saying, "You're using too much philosophy.
  zh: 贝伦加里的继承者们持有理性主义观点和贫乏的哲学思想，公教神学家们并非简单地反驳他们，而是……公教神学家可能会有一种诱惑，说「你们用了太多哲学」。
- start: 717.249
  end: 725.249
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We just simply have to believe in the mystery, period." And that's not what the- the great theologians of the 11th and 12th century did.
  zh: 我们不能只是简单地相信这个奥秘，仅此而已。十一和十二世纪的伟大神学家们并非如此。
- start: 725.249
  end: 728.819
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Rather, they thought to counter, um......
  zh: 相反，他们认为要反驳……
- start: 728.819
  end: 736.639
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: rationalist conclusions, um, we need to make a better use of reason not, um, not reject reason.
  zh: 理性主义的结论，就必须更好地运用理性，而不是拒绝理性。
- start: 736.639
  end: 742.459
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And, um, and so we find several theologians, um, responding to Berengarius.
  zh: 因此我们看到几位神学家回应了贝伦加里的观点。
- start: 742.459
  end: 744.239
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, none of these are well known.
  zh: 这些神学家都不太为人所知。
- start: 744.239
  end: 748.219
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, I had never heard of them either, before studying this more closely.
  zh: 在深入研究之前，我也从未听说过他们。
- start: 748.219
  end: 756.539
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, but I'm going to name them just simply because they contributed greatly to the church's, um, theology of the Eucharist.
  zh: 不过我会提到他们，因为他们对教会的圣餐神学贡献很大。
- start: 756.539
  end: 760.68
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, Lanfranc of Canterbury, um, lived in the 11th century.
  zh: 坎特伯雷的兰弗朗克，生活在十一世纪。
- start: 760.68
  end: 769.999
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Griedmund of Aversa, likewise, died about the end of the 11th century, and Alger of Liege, who lived on into the 12th century.
  zh: 阿韦尔萨的格里德蒙德，同样于十一世纪末去世，列日的阿尔杰则活跃到十二世纪。
- start: 769.999
  end: 787.919
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: All of them wrote a treatise on the Eucharist to, um, counter, um, Berengarius, and, um, all of them contributed to what would culminate in the theology of St. Thomas Aquinas, a century later, in the 13th century.
  zh: 他们都写过关于圣餐的论述，以反驳贝伦加里，且都为一个世纪后十三世纪圣托马斯·阿奎那的神学奠定了基础。
- start: 787.919
  end: 795.479
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Right, so we owe them a debt of gratitude for having prepared the way, even though they are obscure and their names are not remembered.
  zh: 所以我们应当感谢他们为后来的发展铺路，尽管他们鲜为人知，名字也未被记住。
- start: 795.479
  end: 796.659
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: They should be.
  zh: 他们理应被铭记。
- start: 796.659
  end: 803.319
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And they bring out six key points in countering, um, Berengarius.
  zh: 他们提出了六个关键点来反驳贝伦加里。
- start: 803.319
  end: 817.979
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So the first of them is what we saw in the definition that, um, Berengarius had to swear, and that is the substantial conversion of bread into Christ's body and of the wine into Christ's blood.
  zh: 第一个就是我们在贝伦加里必须宣誓的定义中看到的：面包实质转变为基督的身体，酒实质转变为基督的血。
- start: 817.979
  end: 844.119
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So Griedmund writes this, quote, "For indeed, the belief that the bread and the wine of the altar are substantially changed into the body and blood of the Lord, not as Berengarius says, deliriously, that they're only figures and shadows of the body and blood of the Lord, or that Christ is hidden or concealed within them." That would be the first, would be the view later of Zwingli and the second of Luther.
  zh: 格里德蒙德写道：「确实，相信祭坛上的面包和酒实质转变为主的身体和血，而非像贝伦加里妄言的那样，只是主身体和血的象征和影子，或基督隐藏在其中。」这正是后来茨温利和路德的观点。
- start: 844.119
  end: 861.259
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"Has been confirmed by the consent of the universal church." So he says the, the substantial conversion is simply the faith of the universal church, what we would today call the ordinary universal magisterium, right?'
  zh: 「这已被普世教会的共识所确认。」他认为实质转变就是普世教会的信仰，也就是我们今天所说的普通普世教导权。
- start: 861.259
  end: 881.859
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So even though it had only been, um, taught in his own day in that oath, um, by, by Gregory VII, in the oath that Berengarius had to, to profess, um, nevertheless it was taught throughout the, the Catholic Church by, um, so many bishops in the writings of the Fathers and, um, and medieval period.
  zh: 尽管这教义仅在他那个时代由格雷戈里七世在贝伦加里必须宣誓的誓言中明确提出，但它实际上在公教会中由许多主教、教父著作和中世纪时期广泛传授。
- start: 881.859
  end: 886.919
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Alger of Liege, um, writes similarly.
  zh: 列日的阿尔杰也有类似的论述。
- start: 886.919
  end: 911.139
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Quote, "In an entirely new and unheard of way, the substance of bread is so changed into the substance of the body of Christ as to cease to be bread, except in appearance, while the body of Christ remains entirely unchanged." Right, so this is very, it's a brief sentence, but very dense.
  zh: 他说：「以一种全新且前所未闻的方式，面包的实质被转变为基督身体的实质，除了外观之外不再是面包，而基督的身体完全不变。」这句话虽简短，却内容丰富。
- start: 911.139
  end: 914.479
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So it's, first of all, it's something new and unheard of.
  zh: 首先，这是全新的，前所未闻的。
- start: 914.479
  end: 915.979
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This is totally novel.
  zh: 这完全是独特的。
- start: 915.979
  end: 921.019
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: What happens in, in the mass is unique, right?
  zh: 弥撒中发生的事情是独一无二的，对吧？
- start: 921.019
  end: 926.219
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It's, it's mysterious because we don't find transubstantiation in nature, right?
  zh: 这是奥秘，因为我们在自然界中找不到实质转变的例子。
- start: 926.219
  end: 928.859
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So it's something new and unheard of, right?
  zh: 所以这确实是新奇且前所未闻的。
- start: 928.859
  end: 934.099
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It was prefigured by the manna, which had the meaning, "What's that?" Right?
  zh: 这在吗哪中有所预表，吗哪的意思是「这是什么？」对吧？
- start: 934.099
  end: 944.559
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So this conversion of bread and wine into Christ's body and blood is mysterious because it's, it's a kind of change that happens only here.
  zh: 面包和酒转变为基督身体和血的过程是奥秘，因为这种变化只在这里发生。
- start: 944.559
  end: 946.499
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, I'll come back to that in a minute.
  zh: 我稍后会再谈到这个。
- start: 946.499
  end: 962.399
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And it results in the substance of the bread being changed into the substance of the body of Christ, which means that it ceases to be bread, except in appearance, but Christ is unchanged by it.
  zh: 这导致面包的实质变成基督身体的实质，这意味着它不再是面包，除了外观之外，但基督本身没有改变。
- start: 962.399
  end: 965.139
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And that was one of the things that Berengarius was concerned about, right?
  zh: 这正是贝伦加里所担心的，对吧？
- start: 965.139
  end: 971.719
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He, he thought if you affirm the real presence, then we would be chewing up Christ's body and he would be, I don't know, um...
  zh: 他认为如果肯定真实临在，那我们岂不是在咀嚼基督的身体，他会……我不知道，嗯……
- start: 971.719
  end: 978.399
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And again, in, in, he thought that the real presence implied a kind of cannibalistic reception of Christ.
  zh: 他还认为真实临在意味着某种对基督的食人式接受。
- start: 978.399
  end: 986.759
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so that's why, um, these theologians, Alger emphasizes that Christ remains unchanged in the process.
  zh: 所以这些神学家强调，阿尔杰特别指出基督在这个过程中保持不变。
- start: 986.759
  end: 988.139
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 988.139
  end: 993.779
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So what he's describing there is exactly what we mean by the word transubstantiation.
  zh: 他所描述的正是我们所说的实质转变。
- start: 993.779
  end: 994.899
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He didn't yet use that word.
  zh: 当时他还没有使用这个词。
- start: 994.899
  end: 997.999
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It came to be used for the first time a few decades later.
  zh: 这个词是在几十年后首次被使用。
- start: 997.999
  end: 1000.499
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But he's got exactly the, the notion.
  zh: 但他的概念完全符合实质转变的含义。
- start: 1000.499
  end: 1001.699
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 1001.699
  end: 1010.459
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Transubstantiation makes no change in Christ, but it is the bread and the wine that are changed into him, into his body and blood.
  zh: 实质转变并不改变基督本人，而是面包和酒被转变成他的身体和血。
- start: 1010.459
  end: 1019.999
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: All right, second point that they bring out, in order to explain this, you have to distinguish substance and accidents.
  zh: 第二点，为了解释这一点，必须区分实体和属性。
- start: 1019.999
  end: 1021.239
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 1021.239
  end: 1023.999
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so here, a brief philosophical review.
  zh: 这里做一个简短的哲学回顾。
- start: 1023.999
  end: 1027.999
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, substance answers the question, what is it?
  zh: 实体回答的是「这是什么？」的问题。
- start: 1027.999
  end: 1028.739
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 1028.739
  end: 1031.099
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Bread, or body of Christ.
  zh: 是面包，还是基督的身体。
- start: 1031.099
  end: 1034.999
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Accidents answers the question, how is it?
  zh: 属性回答的是「它是怎样的？」的问题。
- start: 1034.999
  end: 1037.999
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, how is, how do we perceive it?
  zh: 我们如何感知它？
- start: 1037.999
  end: 1038.919
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 1038.919
  end: 1051.799
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So that would be, you know, big and white, and, and those would be the different categories of accident, and we could s- simply explain it m- more simply as the appearances of the thing.
  zh: 比如大和白，这些都是属性的不同类别，我们也可以简单地把它们理解为事物的外观。
- start: 1051.799
  end: 1052.379
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 1052.379
  end: 1054.959
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Substance is one thing, appearances are another.
  zh: 实体是一回事，外观是另一回事。
- start: 1054.959
  end: 1056.639
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: They answer different questions.
  zh: 它们回答不同的问题。
- start: 1056.639
  end: 1058.859
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Substance answers the question, what is it?
  zh: 实体回答「这是什么？」
- start: 1058.859
  end: 1062.379
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And the appearances answer the question, how is it?
  zh: 外观回答「它是怎样的？」
- start: 1062.379
  end: 1063.499
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In what way is it?
  zh: 以什么方式存在？
- start: 1063.499
  end: 1068.499
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Our senses grasp the accidents or appearances.
  zh: 我们的感官感知属性或外观。
- start: 1068.499
  end: 1071.899
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It's our intellect that grasps substance.
  zh: 而我们的理智把握实体。
- start: 1071.899
  end: 1077.679
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And accidents are generally changeable, whereas substance, um, is more permanent.
  zh: 属性通常是可变的，而实体则更为持久。
- start: 1077.679
  end: 1079.079
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 1079.079
  end: 1111.902
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So, um, we're one substance throughout our life, but our appearances change greatly from being an embryo, to being a baby, to being, um, a grownup, et cetera.So what's happening here in transubstantiation or in the Eucharistic conversion is that the substance of the bread is being made into the substance of Christ's body, the substance of wine into the substance of Christ's blood, while the accidents or appearances of the bread and wine miraculously stay unchanged.
  zh: 我们一生只有一个实体，但外观会大幅变化，从胚胎到婴儿，再到成人等等。实质转变或圣餐转化中，面包的实体变成基督身体的实体，酒的实体变成基督血的实体，而面包和酒的属性或外观却奇迹般地保持不变。
- start: 1111.902
  end: 1112.462
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 1112.462
  end: 1115.761
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And that's what Berengarius denied could happen.
  zh: 这正是贝伦加里否认可能发生的事情。
- start: 1115.761
  end: 1122.642
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But these theologians all say, "All right, it can't naturally happen, but God can make it happen for his omnipotent.
  zh: 但这些神学家都说：「好吧，这在自然界中不可能发生，但神凭着全能可以使之发生。
- start: 1122.642
  end: 1137.902
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He can make one thing become another thing while making the appearances of the first thing to remain." And we'll talk in a few minutes about why, the reason why he does this is obvious.
  zh: 他能使一物变成另一物，同时保持第一物的外观。」我们稍后会谈到他这样做的原因，这个理由很明显。
- start: 1137.902
  end: 1152.041
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He keeps the appearances of the bread and wine so that we can receive him in a way fitting for human beings, to receive spiritual nourishment under the appearances of bread and wine, rather than flesh and blood.
  zh: 他保留面包和酒的外观，使我们能以适合人的方式接受他，在面包和酒的外观下领受属灵的滋养，而非肉体的身体和血液。
- start: 1152.041
  end: 1158.641
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so there's a double miracle taking place in every mass.
  zh: 所以每场弥撒中都发生着双重奇迹。
- start: 1158.641
  end: 1160.361
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 1160.361
  end: 1168.941
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And that is one substance becomes another substance, and yet the appearances of the first substance remains suspended.
  zh: 就是一种实体变成另一种实体，但第一种实体的外观仍然保留。
- start: 1168.941
  end: 1177.121
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: God sustains them in being so that we can receive him, um, under those appearances in a way fitting for human nature.
  zh: 神维持这些外观的存在，使我们能以适合人性的方式在这些外观下接受他。
- start: 1177.121
  end: 1178.301
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 1178.301
  end: 1182.741
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Third point, this is totally unique, as I mentioned before, right?
  zh: 第三点，正如我之前提到的，这是完全独特的，对吧？
- start: 1182.741
  end: 1188.461
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This does not happen in nature, and so we can't observe, "Ah, it's like that." Right?
  zh: 这在自然界中不会发生，所以我们无法观察到「啊，原来是这样」的现象，对吧？
- start: 1188.461
  end: 1189.941
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Which we always would like.
  zh: 这是我们一直希望的。
- start: 1189.941
  end: 1192.281
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Similar problem for the Trinity.
  zh: 三位一体也有类似的问题。
- start: 1192.281
  end: 1199.981
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So let's just examine this by comparing it to the other kinds of change that we experience or know about.
  zh: 我们通过比较我们经历或知道的其他变化类型来检视这个问题。
- start: 1199.981
  end: 1208.141
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So the most, the most obvious kind of change that we experience is accidental change, and that's, for example, the child that grows up, right?
  zh: 我们最明显经历的变化是属性变化，比如孩子成长，对吧？
- start: 1208.141
  end: 1214.221
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So the appearance changes, but the what it is, a human being, a human person, remains the same.
  zh: 外观改变了，但它是什么——一个人类，一个人——保持不变。
- start: 1214.221
  end: 1220.641
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Substantial change happens when one substance becomes another substance.
  zh: 实质变化是指一种实体变成另一种实体。
- start: 1220.641
  end: 1230.101
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: An example of that would be wood in a fire becoming ash, or conception, the egg and the sperm becoming a new subject, a new person and a human being.
  zh: 例如木头在火中变成灰烬，或受孕时卵子和精子结合成为一个新的主体，一个新人类。
- start: 1230.101
  end: 1233.581
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: A third kind of change is creation.
  zh: 第三种变化是创造。
- start: 1233.581
  end: 1238.181
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It's not really change, it's something unique, but it's from nothing into something.
  zh: 这不是真正的变化，而是独特的事情，是从无到有。
- start: 1238.181
  end: 1242.861
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Uh, transubstantiation is different from all three of those.
  zh: 实质转变不同于这三种变化。
- start: 1242.861
  end: 1251.921
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It's, so it's a fourth kind of change, and it's the conversion of bread and wine into a preexisting subject, Christ.
  zh: 它是第四种变化，是面包和酒转变成一个已存在的主体——基督。
- start: 1251.921
  end: 1257.161
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So it's, it's a substantial change, but it's different than ordinary substantial changes.
  zh: 所以这是实质变化，但不同于普通的实质变化。
- start: 1257.161
  end: 1272.401
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Here, two things are becoming something that already existed, Christ, who isn't changed by this, and secondly, the accidents of the former, the bread and the wine, remain.
  zh: 这里，两件事物变成了一个已存在的主体——基督，他本身不受此影响；其次，前者面包和酒的属性仍然保留。
- start: 1272.401
  end: 1277.381
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, and so it's, it's a new kind of change.
  zh: 所以这是一种新的变化类型。
- start: 1277.381
  end: 1290.621
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It makes sense for the purpose for which Christ instituted it, to make himself present under the veil of bread and wine so that we can receive him into our- ourselves.
  zh: 这符合基督设立圣餐的目的，使自己在面包和酒的外衣下临在，好让我们领受他进入我们自己。
- start: 1290.621
  end: 1294.241
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Fourth point.
  zh: 第四点。
- start: 1294.241
  end: 1299.341
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In transubstantiation, Christ remains whole and entire.
  zh: 在实质转变中，基督保持完整无缺。
- start: 1299.341
  end: 1300.441
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 1300.441
  end: 1312.121
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so this is very important to affirm against the fears that Berengarius had of an exaggerated realism, like the disciples at Capernaum who were scandalized at the Bread of Life Discourse, right?
  zh: 这点非常重要，用来回应贝伦加里对过度现实主义的担忧，就像迦百农的门徒听了生命粮的教导后感到困惑一样。
- start: 1312.121
  end: 1319.861
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: They were scandalized because they thought that Christ in saying we had to eat his, his flesh, they were thinking chunk by chunk.
  zh: 他们感到困惑，因为他们以为基督说要吃他的肉，是指一块一块地吃。
- start: 1319.861
  end: 1326.941
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In other words, um, changing Christ in the process, um, and, and were scandalized by it.
  zh: 换句话说，他们认为这样会改变基督的身体，因此感到困惑。
- start: 1326.941
  end: 1330.441
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so these theologians explained that that's not what happens.
  zh: 这些神学家解释说，事实并非如此。
- start: 1330.441
  end: 1337.821
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And yes, Christ is received, but he's received whole and entire, not cut up in parts.
  zh: 基督确实被领受，但他是完整无缺地被领受，而非被切割成部分。
- start: 1337.821
  end: 1341.601
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so Christ has a mode of presence in the Eucharist.
  zh: 因此基督在圣餐中有一种特殊的临在方式。
- start: 1341.601
  end: 1352.701
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Again, that's totally unique, because he's present whole and entire under each part of the appearances of bread and wine, and our consuming the host doesn't change him.
  zh: 这完全独特，因为他在面包和酒的每一部分外观下完整临在，我们领受圣餐并不会改变他。
- start: 1352.701
  end: 1358.801
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Rather, we are changed by it, by being, um, converted more into him.
  zh: 相反，我们因领受而改变，更加被转化为他。
- start: 1358.801
  end: 1371.741
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so Grieftman, one of our theologians, responding to Berengarius says, quote, "We're able to say that he is as much in one little portion of the host as he is in the whole host." Right?
  zh: 我们的神学家格里夫特曼回应贝伦加里说：「我们可以说，他在圣餐的一小部分中与在整个圣餐中同样临在。」对吧？
- start: 1371.741
  end: 1374.481
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So it, and we all know this also from receiving the Eucharist.
  zh: 这点我们从领受圣餐中也都知道。
- start: 1374.481
  end: 1379.761
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It doesn't matter whether we receive a big host or a tiny host or a fraction of a host.
  zh: 无论我们领受的是大圣餐、小圣餐还是圣餐的一部分，都没有区别。
- start: 1379.761
  end: 1382.241
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Everyone receives the same Christ.
  zh: 每个人领受的都是同一位基督。
- start: 1382.241
  end: 1385.341
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So again, prefigured or foreshadowed by the manner.
  zh: 这同样在吗哪中有所预表或预示。
- start: 1385.341
  end: 1386.801
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Didn't matter how much you gathered.
  zh: 无论你收集多少，
- start: 1386.801
  end: 1394.301
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We all receive the same Christ, and that's because he's whole and entire under every part.
  zh: 我们都领受同一位基督，因为他在每一部分中都是完整无缺的。
- start: 1394.301
  end: 1406.341
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And Grieftman continues, "In like manner, if the host seems to be broken by the teeth or in some other way, we understand it to be unbroken." Right?
  zh: 格里夫特曼继续说：「同样地，如果圣餐看似被牙齿或其他方式掰断，我们仍然理解它是完整的。」对吧？
- start: 1406.341
  end: 1407.421
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Christ is unbroken.
  zh: 基督是完整无缺的。
- start: 1407.421
  end: 1415.341
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The, the host, the appearances of bread and wine are broken, but Christ who is under it remains whole and entire under every part.
  zh: 圣餐，即面包和酒的外观可能被掰断，但基督在其下仍在每一部分完整无缺地临在。
- start: 1415.341
  end: 1416.621
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 1416.621
  end: 1421.861
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So we know that from our liturgical experience, and again, the constant tradition of the church.
  zh: 我们从礼仪经验中知道这一点，也从教会的持续传统中得知。
- start: 1421.861
  end: 1426.021
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Fifth point, concomitance.
  zh: 第五点，共伴性。
- start: 1426.021
  end: 1429.161
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It's a fancy word that means natural accompaniment.
  zh: 这是一个专业术语，意思是自然伴随。
- start: 1429.161
  end: 1436.181
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so this is the consequence of the fact that Christ remains whole and unchanged in the Eucharist.
  zh: 这是基督在圣餐中保持完整不变的结果。
- start: 1436.181
  end: 1447.901
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, because of that, he's not changed or affected by the, um, transubstantiation, um, and he's made present as he is today.
  zh: 因此，他不因实质转变而改变或受影响，他以今日的状态临在。
- start: 1447.901
  end: 1455.063
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And as he is today means with his body, blood, soul, and divinity rejoined at his resurrection....
  zh: 他今日的状态是指他的身体、血、灵魂和神性在复活时重新结合……
- start: 1455.063
  end: 1455.264
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 1455.264
  end: 1461.463
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So Christ, on Easter Sunday, his blood, eh-eh, ah, which would have been separated from his body, was rejoined to it.
  zh: 所以基督在复活节那天，他的血——原本与身体分离——重新与身体结合。
- start: 1461.463
  end: 1477.283
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: His soul rejoined to both, and the divinity never left, um, so when we make one part of him present, let's say, the words "This is my body," making his body present, well, the rest of him comes along because he can no longer be separated.
  zh: 他的灵魂也重新结合，神性从未离开，所以当我们使他的一部分临在，比如说「这是我的身体」这句话使他的身体临在时，他的其余部分也随之临在，因为他已不可分割。
- start: 1477.283
  end: 1489.003
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He's present whole and entire, and that means that under these species of, of bread, we've got his body, but also, indirectly, his blood, his soul, and his divinity.
  zh: 他完整无缺地临在，这意味着在面包的外观下，我们领受他的身体，同时也间接领受他的血、灵魂和神性。
- start: 1489.003
  end: 1498.643
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And likewise, under this species of wine, we have his blood directly, but indirectly by concomitants, his body, his soul and his divinity.
  zh: 同样，在酒的外观下，我们直接领受他的血，但也间接领受他的身体、灵魂和神性，这就是共伴性。
- start: 1498.643
  end: 1508.923
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, he's made present under two species to make sacramentally present his bloody sacrifice, consisting in the separation of his blood from his body.
  zh: 他在这两种外观下临在，是为了圣事性地显现他那血与身体分离的献祭。
- start: 1508.923
  end: 1520.843
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But nevertheless, um, under the, um, species of bread, we have the whole of him, and likewise, under this species of wine, we have the whole Christ.
  zh: 但无论是在面包的外观下，还是在酒的外观下，我们都领受完整的基督。
- start: 1520.843
  end: 1528.463
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, but nevertheless, it has to be sub, celebrated always with both species to make present his sacrifice.
  zh: 不过，圣餐必须始终用这两种圣餐形式来庆祝，以显现他的献祭。
- start: 1528.463
  end: 1535.123
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Okay, final point, um, there are three levels in the Eucharist.
  zh: 好的，最后一点，圣餐有三个层面。
- start: 1535.123
  end: 1536.044
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: All right, what do I mean by that?
  zh: 我是什么意思呢？
- start: 1536.044
  end: 1548.263
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, in the ob, most obvious aspect of Eucharist is what is seen by the senses, and that is the bread and wine and the words that are said over the bread and wine in the consecration.
  zh: 圣餐最明显的方面是感官所见的，就是面包和酒，以及祝圣时对面包和酒所说的话语。
- start: 1548.263
  end: 1551.483
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And that, we call the sacramental sign, all right?
  zh: 这就是我们所说的圣事标记。
- start: 1551.483
  end: 1552.824
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So, that's what is seen.
  zh: 这就是所见之物。
- start: 1552.824
  end: 1557.803
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And then there's an, an ultimate effect and that is the grace that we receive.
  zh: 然后还有一个最终的效果，那就是我们所领受的恩典。
- start: 1557.803
  end: 1561.083
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Berengarius didn't have any problem with either of those two, right?
  zh: 贝伦加里对这两点都没有异议，对吧？
- start: 1561.083
  end: 1564.184
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He acknowledged the sacramental sign and the grace received.
  zh: 他承认圣事标记和所领受的恩典。
- start: 1564.184
  end: 1569.663
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: What he denied was something intermediate in the middle between them, the real presence.
  zh: 他否认的是介于两者之间的东西，也就是真实临在。
- start: 1569.663
  end: 1585.703
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So, we want to say that in the Eucharist, there are three levels as it were, the sacramental sign, the reality of his body and blood, which is a sign of the grace of divine life that he gives us in holy communion.
  zh: 所以我们说，圣餐有三个层面：圣事标记，他的身体和血的真实存在，这是真实临在，同时也是他在圣餐中赐予我们神生命恩典的标记。
- start: 1585.703
  end: 1594.303
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So, we can see that the Eucharist is more complex, um, than, um, might be thought at first sight.
  zh: 所以圣餐比初看起来要复杂得多。
- start: 1594.303
  end: 1606.104
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, in other words, not simply sacramental sign and the grace that it represents, but in between the two, the mystery of his real presence, which is both a reality, right?
  zh: 换句话说，不只是圣事标记和它所代表的恩典，而是在两者之间，有他的真实临在的奥秘，这既是真实存在，对吧？
- start: 1606.104
  end: 1616.023
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It's a, nothing more real than Christ's body and blood, but it's at the same time the sign of the grace that he's communicating to us through holy communion.
  zh: 没有什么比基督的身体和血更真实，但它同时也是他通过圣餐传递给我们的恩典的标记。
- start: 1616.023
  end: 1621.484
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In other words, an application sign that communicates what he is to us who receive him.
  zh: 换句话说，这是一个应用的标记，传达他对我们这些领受者的意义。
- start: 1621.484
  end: 1638.323
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so, the theologians of the 12th century were given the task of thinking about these three levels, um, and, um, recognizing that this has an application also to other sacraments.
  zh: 因此十二世纪的神学家们承担起思考这三个层面的任务，并认识到这同样适用于其他圣事。
- start: 1638.323
  end: 1643.944
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In fact, the whole sacramental system can be best understood with these three levels.
  zh: 事实上，整个圣事体系都可以通过这三个层面来最好地理解。
- start: 1643.944
  end: 1651.023
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Let me give it, um, the sacramental sign, which in the case of the Eucharist is the bread and the wine and the words.
  zh: 我来说明一下：圣事标记，在圣餐中就是面包、酒和祝圣的话语。
- start: 1651.023
  end: 1664.923
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The hidden reality, which is a sign of grace, and that is the body and blood, and then finally, the grace and charity, which, um, sanctifies the soul and builds up the unity of the church.
  zh: 隐藏的实在，是恩典的标记，也就是基督的身体和血，最后是恩典和慈爱，圣化灵魂并建立教会的合一。
- start: 1664.923
  end: 1670.164
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And there's a, a technical language for this, um, usually said in Latin, sorry about that.
  zh: 对此有一个专业术语，通常用拉丁语表达，抱歉。
- start: 1670.164
  end: 1679.283
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But I'll just mention them, um, the sense, sacramental sign is often called the sacramentum tantum, which means simply the sign alone.
  zh: 我简单提一下，圣事标记常被称为sacramentum tantum，意为仅仅是标记。
- start: 1679.283
  end: 1692.523
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The, um, body and blood is referred to as res et sacramentum, reality and sacramental sign, and then the grace is called the res tantum, the reality of grace alone.
  zh: 身体和血被称为res et sacramentum，即实在与圣事标记，而恩典被称为res tantum，仅指恩典的实在。
- start: 1692.523
  end: 1695.563
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And this applies also to other sacraments.
  zh: 这同样适用于其他圣事。
- start: 1695.563
  end: 1716.363
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So, for example, in baptism, there's the sacramental sign, right, the, the, um, pouring of the water with the words of the baptismal formula, and then there's, um, the effect of grace, that's the ultimate effect, um, sanctifying grace, being made a son of or daughter of God and the forgiveness of, of sins.
  zh: 比如洗礼，有圣事标记，就是倒水和洗礼公式的话语，然后有恩典的效果，即最终的效果，圣化恩典，使人成为神的儿女并获得罪的赦免。
- start: 1716.363
  end: 1725.283
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But in between the two, there's a durable sign that's also a reality on the soul, and that is sacramental character, right?
  zh: 但两者之间还有一个持久的标记，也是灵魂上的实在，那就是圣事印记。
- start: 1725.283
  end: 1729.743
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And that's also true in confirmation and in, um, holy orders.
  zh: 坚振圣事和圣秩圣事中也同样如此。
- start: 1729.743
  end: 1743.443
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so, we can see that, um, not just the Eucharist but, um, the other sacraments of what, as well in different ways have these three levels and can be best understood, um, and so they're complex realities.
  zh: 所以我们看到，不仅是圣餐，其他圣事也以不同方式具有这三个层面，且能被最好地理解，因此它们是复杂的实在。
- start: 1743.443
  end: 1757.004
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, we see a, a hint of this in John 6:51, where Jesus says, "The bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh." And there, we've got...
  zh: 我们在约翰福音6章51节看到这一点的暗示，耶稣说：「我所赐的饼就是我的肉，为世人生命所赐。」这里我们有……
- start: 1757.004
  end: 1759.443
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So, the bread, that's the sacramental sign.
  zh: 面包是圣事标记。
- start: 1759.443
  end: 1767.944
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The, the life of the world would be the ultimate effect of grace, and then the intermediate reality is my flesh, right?
  zh: 「世人的生命」是恩典的最终效果，中间的实在是我的肉，对吧？
- start: 1767.944
  end: 1770.464
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: All three are present, right?
  zh: 这三者都存在，对吧？
- start: 1770.464
  end: 1791.384
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The Eucharist, um, the sacramental sign remains as long as the, the appearance of bread and wine are not corrupted and Christ's flesh and blood remain under them and his whole personal reality, again, as long as the appearances, the sacramental sign is not corrupted and it communicates divine life.
  zh: 圣餐中，只要面包和酒的外观未被破坏，圣事标记就存在，基督的身体和血仍在其下，他完整的个人实在也存在，只要外观和圣事标记未被破坏，它就传递神的生命。
- start: 1791.384
  end: 1798.703
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And we can see these three levels also in the formula for benediction.
  zh: 我们也能在祝福祷文中看到这三个层面。
- start: 1798.703
  end: 1849.983
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Um, "O God, who in this wonderful sacrament have left us a memorial of your passion," that, that's the sign, "grant us, we pray, so to revere the sacred mysteries of your body and blood," that's the intermediate level, the real presence, "that we may always experience in ourselves the fruits of your redemption, the effect of grace." And so, this controversy ended up being very fruitful for the life of the church in terms of theology, leading to, um, what we'll examine in the next episode, the theology of Thomas Aquinas, and then in terms of, um, Eucharistic devotion, leading to a proliferation of, um, of Eucharistic celebrations, and in particular, leading to the institution of the Feast of Corpus Christi in the 13th century for which Thomas Aquinas wrote the Liturgical Office.
  zh: 「神啊，您在这奇妙的圣事中留下了您受难的纪念」，这是标记；「求您使我们敬畏您身体和血的奥秘」，这是中间层面，真实临在；「使我们常在自己里面经历您救赎的果效，恩典的效果。」这场争议最终对教会的神学生活非常有益，促成了我们下一集要探讨的托马斯·阿奎那神学，也推动了圣餐敬礼的兴盛，尤其促成了十三世纪圣体节的设立，托马斯·阿奎那为此写了礼仪文。
- start: 1849.983
  end: 1850.623
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 1850.623
  end: 1862.003
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so, it's interesting how God makes, brings out, he permits evil, in this case heresy, for the sake of a greater good, um, devotion to the Eucharist and a greater penetration.
  zh: 有趣的是，神如何允许恶事发生，在此例中是异端，为了更大的善——对圣餐的敬虔和更深的领悟。
- start: 1862.003
  end: 1874.003
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So, we'll leave it there and in the next episode, we'll take up the theology of Thomas Aquinas, which brings this, um, theology to, um, greater perfection.
  zh: 我们先讲到这里，下一集将探讨托马斯·阿奎那的神学，他使这套神学更加完善。
- start: 1874.003
  end: 1880.823
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We give you thanks for this mystery through Christ our Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
  zh: 我们感谢你赐予这奥秘，借着基督，借着父、子、圣灵。
- start: 1880.823
  end: 1881.344
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Amen.
  zh: 阿们。
