- start: 1.159
  end: 4.939
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Let me say a word in defense of reason and dialogue with faith.
  zh: 让我为理性和与信仰的对话说几句话。
- start: 4.939
  end: 7.339
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Because faith is that proof.
  zh: 因为信仰就是那个证据。
- start: 7.339
  end: 9.699
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Faith unites us to that substance.
  zh: 信仰将我们与那个实体联合起来。
- start: 9.699
  end: 20.039
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But reason, in order to realize its full potential, meets the horizons revealed by and truth contained in the faith.
  zh: 但是理性，为了充分发挥其潜力，需要与信仰所揭示的视野和其中包含的真理相遇。
- start: 20.039
  end: 23.86
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And not just any faith, but the Catholic faith.
  zh: 而且不是任何信仰，而是公教信仰。
- start: 23.86
  end: 35.359
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I was running late for the gate where my plane was taking off and I, and I got stopped by a guy.
  zh: 我当时赶着去登机口，飞机快起飞了，然后我被一个人拦住了。
- start: 35.359
  end: 43.719
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He said, "Are, are you Scott Hahn?" I'm like, "Yeah." And he's like, "Do you remember me?" And I'm like, "Uh, no." I hate that question 'cause I've got a professor's memory.
  zh: 他说：「你、你是斯科特·哈恩吗？」我说：「是的。」他说：「你还记得我吗？」我说：「呃，不记得了。」我讨厌这个问题，因为我只有教授的记忆力。
- start: 43.719
  end: 45.699
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I mean, it's the size of a pea.
  zh: 我的意思是，它只有豌豆那么大。
- start: 45.699
  end: 49.62
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And I'm looking at him like, "Okay, help me here." Yeah, I'm like...
  zh: 我看着他，心想：「好吧，帮帮我。」是的，我心想……
- start: 49.62
  end: 50.379
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"I''m Chris.'
  zh: 「我是克里斯。
- start: 50.379
  end: 51.519
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We went to high school.
  zh: 我们一起读高中。
- start: 51.519
  end: 60.299
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We graduated in '79 together." And I'm like, "Oh, my goodness." I recognized him and he hadn't changed nearly as much as I had, especially when it comes to weight.
  zh: 我们是 79 年一起毕业的。」我心想：「哦，天哪。」我认出了他，他变化没我大，尤其是在体重方面。
- start: 60.299
  end: 64.259
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I'm like, "It's great to see you, but I don't have time to talk.
  zh: 我说：「很高兴见到你，但我没时间聊了。
- start: 64.259
  end: 67.119
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I'm late for my plane." He's like, "I just gotta tell you one thing.
  zh: 我赶飞机。」他说：「我只想告诉你一件事。
- start: 67.119
  end: 69.979
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You remember back then, I was a Catholic?
  zh: 你还记得那时候我是个公教徒吗？
- start: 69.979
  end: 78.679
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, I've got good news because I'm now an evangelical Bible Christian." And I'm like, "Well, that's wonderful, Chris.
  zh: 嗯，我有个好消息，我现在是个福音派圣经基督徒了。」我说：「嗯，那太好了，克里斯。
- start: 78.679
  end: 89.999
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But let me share with you one thing before I take off because I am now an evangelical Bible Catholic Christian." And his jaw dropped to the floor.
  zh: 但在我起飞前，让我和你分享一件事，因为我现在是个福音派圣经公教基督徒了。」他听了下巴都掉了。
- start: 89.999
  end: 97.179
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"What?" And he was like, "I can''t believe it.'
  zh: 「什么？」他说：「我简直不敢相信。
- start: 97.179
  end: 107.599
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You were the one who would always come into the cafeteria, sit at our table, and after all the small talk, you, you would, you would target us, especially the Catholics with all kinds of questions.
  zh: 你就是那个总是来餐厅，坐在我们桌子旁，闲聊过后，你就会，你就会针对我们，尤其是公教徒，问各种各样的问题。
- start: 107.599
  end: 111.819
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You'd pepper us." And I'm like, "I, I, I honestly don't remember that, Chris.
  zh: 你会连珠炮似地问我们。」我说：「我，我，我老实说不记得了，克里斯。
- start: 111.819
  end: 117.379
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But I, I'm gonna have to catch my flight here." "Can we, can we exchange business cards?" And we did.
  zh: 但我，我得赶飞机了。」「我们能，我们能交换名片吗？」我们交换了。
- start: 117.379
  end: 120.439
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And he's like, "But don't you remember that one time you...
  zh: 他说：「但你难道不记得有一次你……
- start: 120.439
  end: 135.979
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, it wasn't just one time, you'd come back again and again and you'd ask me, especially me, that question, 'Where in the New Testament do you find the sacrifice of the Mass?' Remember that?" And I'm like, "Honestly, I don't." "But it sure sounds like me." You know?
  zh: 嗯，不止一次，你一次又一次地回来，问我，尤其是问我那个问题：『你在新约里哪里找到弥撒的祭献？』还记得吗？」我说：「老实说，我不记得了。」「但这听起来确实像我。」你知道吗？
- start: 135.979
  end: 146.659
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And I'm like, "Can I give you a call next week?" "Sure." So, I took off and I left him wondering whether I really meant it.
  zh: 我说：「我下周可以给你打电话吗？」他说：「当然。」于是，我起飞了，留下他纳闷我是不是真的那样说。
- start: 146.659
  end: 147.919
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so, I called him.
  zh: 于是，我给他打了电话。
- start: 147.919
  end: 151.139
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And we basically picked up where we left off in the airport.
  zh: 我们基本上接着在机场没说完的话题继续聊。
- start: 151.139
  end: 159.979
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Of like, okay, realizing I had to kind of make up for lost time and do a little bit of evangelical restitution.
  zh: 就像，好吧，意识到我得弥补失去的时间，做一些福音派的补偿。
- start: 159.979
  end: 168.079
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I said to Chris, "Okay, so what was it you recalled from our cafeteria conversations?
  zh: 我对克里斯说：「好吧，那么你从我们餐厅的谈话中记得什么？
- start: 168.079
  end: 183.139
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You used to say to us at the table, you know, 'Where in the New Testament do you find the sacrifice of the Mass?' And then quickly, you'd go on to point out that the Mass, as we called it, or the Lord's Supper as you referred to it, was not a sacrifice, it was only a meal.
  zh: 你以前在桌子旁总是对我们说，你知道的，『你在新约里哪里找到弥撒的祭献？』然后你很快就会接着指出，弥撒，我们这样称呼它，或者主餐，你这样称呼它，不是祭献，它只是一个餐。
- start: 183.139
  end: 192.899
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That the sacrifice was precisely what Jesus had offered on Calvary." "And years later, Scott, honestly, I came to realize you were right.
  zh: 祭献正是耶稣在髑髅地献上的。」「斯科特，老实说，多年后我才意识到你是对的。
- start: 192.899
  end: 196.719
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Calvary's the sacrifice." I'm like, "Okay.
  zh: 髑髅地才是祭献。」我说：「好吧。
- start: 196.719
  end: 199.099
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I, I still agree with that, Chris.
  zh: 我，我仍然同意这一点，克里斯。
- start: 199.099
  end: 214.239
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But I, I think we need to take a step or two back in order to see things in perspective, at least the way I've come to see them." So, that particular conversation lasted well over an hour because in that talk, I shared with him what the early church fathers had sort of shared with me.
  zh: 但是，我，我认为我们需要退后一两步，以便更全面地看待事物，至少是我现在看待它们的方式。」所以，那次谈话持续了一个多小时，因为在那次谈话中，我与他分享了早期教父们与我分享的一些内容。
- start: 214.239
  end: 232.919
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That if you had been there on Good Friday, standing at Calvary as a devout Jew, and you had watched Jesus suffer and die, you would not have gone home and recounted your experience to your family members and friends as though you had just witnessed a sacrifice.
  zh: 如果你在受难节那天，作为一个虔诚的犹太人站在髑髅地，看着耶稣受苦和死去，你不会回家后向家人和朋友讲述你的经历，好像你刚刚目睹了一场祭献。
- start: 232.919
  end: 247.779
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Because for the Jews in the first century, a sacrifice had to take, take place inside the City of Jerusalem, within the temple upon an altar where there would be a priest standing by offering a sacrifice.
  zh: 因为对于第一世纪的犹太人来说，祭献必须在耶路撒冷城内，在圣殿里，在祭坛上进行，那里会有祭司站在旁边献祭。
- start: 247.779
  end: 262.239
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Whereas Jesus died outside the walls, far from the temple, where there were no altars or priests offering sacri- So, what they would have gone home and related to their family members and friends was not a sacrifice, but what?
  zh: 然而耶稣死在城墙外，远离圣殿，那里没有祭坛或祭司献祭——所以，他们回家后向家人和朋友讲述的不是祭献，而是什么？
- start: 262.239
  end: 264.319
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: A Roman execution.
  zh: 一次罗马式的处决。
- start: 264.319
  end: 267.219
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And a rather bloody one at that.
  zh: 而且是一次相当血腥的处决。
- start: 267.219
  end: 295.859
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I said, "Chris, you know, from a Jewish persp- perspective, following the Old Testament, Jesus' death on Calvary was an execution, a Roman execution, a bloody and unjust act of violence." And he's like, "O- okay." So, I asked the question to Chris just as the fathers had kind of posed it to me, "How in the world does a Roman execution get suddenly changed into a holy sacrifice?
  zh: 我说：「克里斯，你知道，从犹太人的角度来看，按照旧约，耶稣在髑髅地的死是一次处决，一次罗马式的处决，一次血腥而不公的暴力行为。」他说：「哦，好吧。」于是，我像教父们向我提出的那样，向克里斯提出了这个问题：「一次罗马式的处决怎么会突然变成一次神圣的祭献呢？
- start: 295.859
  end: 300.199
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And not just any sacrifice, but the supreme sacrifice of all times?
  zh: 而且不是任何祭献，而是有史以来最崇高的祭献？
- start: 300.199
  end: 305.999
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: How does that happen?" And he's like, "Uh, help me here." You know?
  zh: 这怎么会发生呢？」他说：「呃，帮帮我。」你知道吗？
- start: 305.999
  end: 308.939
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I'm like, "Well, I'll help you the way the fathers helped me.
  zh: 我说：「好吧，我像教父们帮助我那样帮助你。
- start: 308.939
  end: 325.439
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The only way to illuminate the mystery of what happened to Jesus on Good Friday is by rewinding the tape and looking at it in the light of what he had previously done in the upper room with his disciples on Holy Thursday." "Because He wasn't just celebrating a meal.
  zh: 唯一能阐明耶稣在受难节那天所发生之事的奥秘的方法，就是倒带，从他在圣周四晚上在楼上房间与门徒们所做的事情的光中来看待它。」「因为他不仅仅是在庆祝一顿饭。
- start: 325.439
  end: 327.259
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He wasn't just sharing a supper.
  zh: 他不仅仅是在分享一顿晚餐。
- start: 327.259
  end: 333.019
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He was celebrating the Passover of the old covenant one last time.
  zh: 他是在最后一次庆祝旧约的逾越节。
- start: 333.019
  end: 334.779
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But that's not all He was doing.
  zh: 但这并不是他所做的一切。
- start: 334.779
  end: 336.959
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He was fulfilling it as the Lamb of God.
  zh: 他是在作为神的羔羊来成全它。
- start: 336.959
  end: 341.839
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But He wasn't fulfilling it as the Lamb of God for the purpose of terminating it.
  zh: 但他并不是为了终止它而作为神的羔羊来成全它。
- start: 341.839
  end: 355.999
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He was fulfilling it as the Lamb of God for the purpose of transforming the Passover of the old covenant into the Passover of the new." "And you recall how He does it because the synoptic gospels tell us.
  zh: 他是在作为神的羔羊来成全它，目的是将旧约的逾越节转化为新约的逾越节。」「你还记得他是怎么做的，因为对观福音书告诉我们。
- start: 355.999
  end: 369.241
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In the context of celebrating the familiar ancient Jewish Passover, which all 12 of the disciples would have known like the back of their hands-"Near the beginning of the meal, near the beginning of the meal, He, He did something different.
  zh: 在庆祝熟悉的古老犹太逾越节的背景下，所有 12 个门徒都对此了如指掌——」在用餐快开始的时候，在用餐快开始的时候，他，他做了一些不同的事情。
- start: 369.241
  end: 384.581
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He, He took the bread, which was unleavened, and He spoke the words, "This is My body, which will be given up for you." And I suspect that the disciples must have been sitting there wondering, "What is that?" You know, He's just deviated from the liturgical rubrics a little bit here, you know?
  zh: 他，他拿起无酵饼，说了这些话：「这是我的身体，为你们舍的。」我猜门徒们当时一定坐在那里纳闷：「那是什么？」你知道，他在这里稍微偏离了礼仪规程，你知道吗？
- start: 384.581
  end: 394.442
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Nobody apparently said a thing, but they must have kind of wondered and, and, and recalled, you know, "Why did He say that, 'This is My body which will be given for you'"?
  zh: 显然没有人说什么，但他们一定有点纳闷，并且，并且，并且回想，你知道，「他为什么说，『这是我的身体，为你们舍的』」？
- start: 394.442
  end: 395.901
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: What was that rhetoric?
  zh: 那是什么修辞？
- start: 395.901
  end: 402.941
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And then near the end of the meal, Chris, He takes the third cup of blessing, and what does He do?
  zh: 然后快到用餐结束的时候，克里斯，他拿起第三杯祝福的杯，他做了什么？
- start: 402.941
  end: 413.981
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He, He takes it and He speaks those words that we know so well, "This chalice is the blood of the covenant, the blood of the new covenant poured out for many for the remission of sins.
  zh: 他，他拿起杯，说了我们非常熟悉的话：「这杯是用我的血所立的新约，为多人流出来，使罪得赦。
- start: 413.981
  end: 422.261
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Do this in remembrance of Me." So this chalice, this cup is the Blood, the Blood of the new covenant poured out for many for the remission of sins.
  zh: 你们每逢喝的时候，要如此行，为的是记念我。」所以这杯，这杯是血，新约的血，为多人流出来，使罪得赦。
- start: 422.261
  end: 438.781
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"Do this in remembrance of Me." And there again, the disciples must have been scratching their heads wondering, "What is this new ritual addition that He''s kind of appending here?" Nobody apparently asked Him, and a, a few moments later, they were out into the night over to the Garden of Gethsemane.'
  zh: 「你们每逢喝的时候，要如此行，为的是记念我。」门徒们当时一定又在挠头纳闷：「他在这里加的这个新仪式是什么？」显然没有人问他，过了一会儿，他们就出去了，到了客西马尼园。
- start: 438.781
  end: 444.441
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And I said, "Chris, I suspect that those disciples were wondering what Jesus was saying and doing.
  zh: 我说：「克里斯，我猜那些门徒当时一定在纳闷耶稣在说什么、做什么。
- start: 444.441
  end: 446.461
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: What was this new rhetoric?
  zh: 这种新的说法是什么？
- start: 446.461
  end: 460.901
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Was it just, you know, an additional ritual, or was there some reality?" But not until the next day, not until Good Friday, did they discover that He wasn't just adding new words, He wasn't just adding a new ritual gesture.
  zh: 这只是，你知道，一个额外的仪式，还是有什么真实性？」但直到第二天，直到受难节，他们才发现他不仅仅是在添加新的话语，他不仅仅是在添加一个新的仪式姿态。
- start: 460.901
  end: 474.301
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: When He said, "This is My body, which will be given up for you," on Holy Thursday in the Upper Room, He proved that He said what He meant and He meant what He said on Good Friday because His body was given up for them.
  zh: 当他在圣周四在楼上房间说：「这是我的身体，为你们舍的」时，他在受难节证明了他言行一致，因为他的身体为他们舍了。
- start: 474.301
  end: 486.961
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And likewise, the cup after supper, when He speaks those sacred words and declares that, "This cup is the blood of the New Testament, the blood of the new covenant poured out for many for the remission of sins.
  zh: 同样，饭后的杯，当他说出那些神圣的话语并宣告：「这杯是用我的血所立的新约，为多人流出来，使罪得赦。
- start: 486.961
  end: 492.441
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Do this in remembrance of Me," the very next day, He did what He said.
  zh: 你们每逢喝的时候，要如此行，为的是记念我。」第二天，他就照他说的做了。
- start: 492.441
  end: 498.241
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He poured out His blood for the forgiveness of sins as a sacrifice.
  zh: 他流出他的血，作为祭献，使罪得赦。
- start: 498.241
  end: 504.321
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I said, "The Passover is the key because in the Old Covenant, the Passover was never merely a meal.
  zh: 我说：「逾越节是关键，因为在旧约中，逾越节从来不只是一个餐。
- start: 504.321
  end: 508.781
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It always started off as a sacrifice." Just ask the lamb.
  zh: 它总是以祭献开始。」问问那只羔羊就知道了。
- start: 508.781
  end: 521.261
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But the sacrifice of the unblemished male lamb was then culminating in the sacrificial communion, the meal known as the Passover.
  zh: 但是那只无瑕疵公羊羔的祭献，最终以祭献性的共融，也就是被称为逾越节的餐达到高潮。
- start: 521.261
  end: 552.161
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And if that was true of the Old Covenant, it isn't less true but more of the new because Jesus comes as the Lamb, not just to feed us, but to die for us, but to do so in the context of the Old Covenant Passover, which He's celebrating one last time by fulfilling it, but He fulfills it by transforming the, the old into the new as the Lamb who must die as a sacrifice, and then as the one who makes provisions for the sacrificial communion.
  zh: 如果旧约是这样，那么新约更是如此，因为耶稣作为羔羊而来，不仅是为了喂养我们，更是为了为我们而死，而且是在旧约逾越节的背景下这样做，他通过成全它来最后一次庆祝它，但他通过将旧的转化为新的来成全它，作为必须作为祭献而死的羔羊，然后作为为祭献性共融提供预备的那一位。
- start: 552.161
  end: 565.341
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I said, "If the Eucharist that Jesus instituted on Holy Thursday was just a meal, then His death on Holy, on Good Friday was just a Roman execution.
  zh: 我说：「如果耶稣在圣周四设立的圣餐只是一个餐，那么他在圣周五的死就只是一次罗马式的处决。
- start: 565.341
  end: 585.921
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But if, on the other hand, and only if, Jesus' institution of the Holy Eucharist was nothing less than the sacrifice of the new covenant Passover, then what was instituted on Thursday is precisely what is consummated on Friday.
  zh: 但是，另一方面，而且只有当耶稣设立圣餐完全是新约逾越节的祭献时，那么周四所设立的，正是周五所完成的。
- start: 585.921
  end: 598.101
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He didn't lose His life on Friday if He'd already freely given it to us by instituting the Eucharist as the Passover of the new covenant on Holy Thursday.
  zh: 如果他在圣周四设立圣餐作为新约的逾越节时已经自由地将生命赐给了我们，那么他在周五就没有失去生命。
- start: 598.101
  end: 602.201
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He wasn't the victim of Roman violence and injustice.
  zh: 他不是罗马暴力和不公的受害者。
- start: 602.201
  end: 604.861
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He was the victim of divine love.
  zh: 他的神之爱的受害者。
- start: 604.861
  end: 633.381
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He made His life a gift which He freely laid down before anybody laid their hands upon Him and try to take it." I said, "If the Eucharist is a meal, then Calvary's an execution, but if the Eucharist is the sacrifice of the new covenant, then and only then do we see that Calvary is more than an execution, that indeed it is the consummation of the sacrifice of the new covenant Passover lamb." There was this long pause.
  zh: 他将自己的生命作为礼物，在任何人对他下手并试图夺走之前，他自由地舍弃了。」我说：「如果圣餐是一个餐，那么髑髅地就是一次处决，但如果圣餐是新约的祭献，那么只有这样，我们才能看到髑髅地不仅仅是一次处决，它确实是新约逾越节羔羊祭献的完成。」接着是一段长时间的沉默。
- start: 633.381
  end: 648.021
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And now, he said to me, "I, I never saw it that way." And I had to admit, neither did I until I read Melito of Sardis.
  zh: 现在，他对我说：「我，我从来没有那样看过。」我不得不承认，直到我读了撒狄的梅利托，我也没有那样看过。
- start: 648.021
  end: 671.461
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You know, his homily, Peri Pascha, in the Greek, I had it translated into English, and there I discovered what was a commonplace, what it seems like all the Christians believed in the first, second, third, and fourth centuries as Paul himself declares to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 5:7, "Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.
  zh: 你知道，他的讲道，希腊文的《论逾越节》，我把它翻译成了英文，在那里我发现了一个普遍的观点，似乎所有第一、第二、第三和第四世纪的基督徒都相信这一点，正如保罗自己在哥林多前书 5:7 对哥林多人宣告的：「因为我们逾越节的羔羊基督已经被杀献祭了。
- start: 671.461
  end: 673.121
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Therefore," what?
  zh: 所以，」什么？
- start: 673.121
  end: 683.181
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"Let us simply believe, that''s all we need to be doing and then we''re saved." And one said, "No." He said, "Therefore, let us keep the feast." And what feast is he talking about?'
  zh: 「让我们简单地相信，这就是我们需要做的，然后我们就得救了。」有人说：「不。」他说：「所以，让我们守这节。」他指的是什么节？
- start: 683.181
  end: 697.381
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The new covenant feast of the Eucharist, the Feast of the Unleavened Bread, which he goes on in the subsequent chapters of 1 Corinthians 10 and 11 to explain more fully than he does in all of the other epistles put together.
  zh: 新约圣餐的节期，无酵饼的节期，他在哥林多前书第 10 章和第 11 章的后续章节中对此进行了更全面的解释，比他在所有其他书信中加起来的解释还要详细。
- start: 697.381
  end: 709.261
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so it is that we agree with our non-Catholic Christian brothers and sisters who describe Calvary as the sacrifice.
  zh: 因此，我们同意我们的非公教基督徒弟兄姊妹，他们将髑髅地描述为祭献。
- start: 709.261
  end: 723.741
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We would just hasten to clarify the fact that Calvary would only be an execution and less the Holy Eucharist is nothing less than the sacrifice of the new covenant Passover.
  zh: 我们只想赶紧澄清一个事实，那就是髑髅地只是一次处决，除非圣餐完全是新约逾越节的祭献。
- start: 723.741
  end: 736.543
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so when we as Catholics go about the new evangelization...They've got good news to share, and we don't begrudge them because they share so generously.
  zh: 所以当我们公教徒进行新福传时……他们有福音要分享，我们不嫉妒他们，因为他们分享得如此慷慨。
- start: 736.543
  end: 738.783
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: They take on risks.
  zh: 他们承担风险。
- start: 738.783
  end: 758.763
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: They take the good news as they understand it and they share it freely and fully, with excitement, and so we should too, only more fully and more excitedly because the good news they share just gets better when you discover the fullness of the faith in the Family of God that we call the Catholic Church.
  zh: 他们按照自己的理解接受福音，并自由、充分、热情地分享，我们也应该如此，只是要更充分、更热情，因为他们分享的福音，当你发现我们在神家庭中称之为公教会的信仰的圆满时，只会变得更好。
- start: 758.763
  end: 782.623
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Because it's not just a personal relationship, it's not just cohabiting with another person that you sincerely love, it's a covenant relationship that calls for interpersonal communion, but it has to pass from a personal relationship to a committed relationship to a covenantal bond.
  zh: 因为它不仅仅是个人关系，不仅仅是与你真心爱的人同居，它是一种盟约关系，需要人际共融，但它必须从个人关系发展到承诺关系，再到盟约的约束。
- start: 782.623
  end: 786.463
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so for us, it takes a little bit longer.
  zh: 所以对我们来说，这需要更长一点的时间。
- start: 786.463
  end: 787.604
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 787.604
  end: 791.223
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Uh, because we're Catholics and we just kinda drag things out.
  zh: 呃，因为我们是公教徒，我们总是把事情拖得很长。
- start: 791.223
  end: 795.063
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: No, because that's what human nature calls for.
  zh: 不，因为这是人性所要求的。
- start: 795.063
  end: 798.423
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Falling in love is not over and done in a day.
  zh: 坠入爱河不是一天就能完成的。
- start: 798.423
  end: 802.903
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Falling in love is over and done in a lifetime.
  zh: 坠入爱河是一辈子的事。
- start: 802.903
  end: 816.503
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But it needs to go through stages of growth and development, whether we call it courtship, engagement, marriage, or whatever we call it in whatever culture we live in.
  zh: 但它需要经历成长和发展的阶段，无论我们称之为求爱、订婚、婚姻，或者在我们所处的任何文化中称之为其他什么。
- start: 816.503
  end: 823.323
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We recognize that the crisis in the Church today is very similar to the crisis in the culture.
  zh: 我们认识到，今天教会的危机与文化危机非常相似。
- start: 823.323
  end: 834.703
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We don't understand the inner logic of love when it comes to the interpersonal bond between a male and a female, when it comes to the deeper interpersonal bond between God and humanity.
  zh: 这不仅仅是我的决定。
- start: 834.703
  end: 837.323
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It isn't just my decision.
  zh: 这不仅仅是我的决定。
- start: 837.323
  end: 839.523
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It isn't just my experience.
  zh: 这不仅仅是我的经历。
- start: 839.523
  end: 842.563
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Those are necessary steps, but they are baby steps.
  zh: 这些是必要的步骤，但它们是婴儿的脚步。
- start: 842.563
  end: 851.383
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: They're like the first steps, as I said, the Prodigal Son took from a far country long before he ever got home to the merciful father who had been waiting for him.
  zh: 它们就像我说的，浪子从远方迈出的第一步，在他回到一直等候他的慈父家里之前很久。
- start: 851.383
  end: 873.823
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And that feast that he celebrated for the Prodigal Son is the Eucharistic banquet, the marriage supper of the Lamb that the prodigal sons and daughters of God get to share when Catholics proclaim the Gospel in its integrity, with all of its truth, with all of its power, indeed, with all of its beauty.
  zh: 他为浪子庆祝的那个宴席就是圣餐宴席，是羔羊的婚宴，当公教徒完整地宣讲福音，带着它所有的真理、所有的力量，确实，带着它所有的美丽时，神的浪子浪女们就能分享到这个宴席。
- start: 873.823
  end: 893.183
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And I would also go on to say that the Eucharist that Jesus instituted on Holy Thursday is not only what illuminates the mystery of His suffering on Good Friday, it's also what really clarifies the importance of His resurrection on Easter Sunday.
  zh: 我还要接着说，耶稣在圣周四设立的圣餐，不仅阐明了他受难节受苦的奥秘，也真正阐明了他复活节复活的重要性。
- start: 893.183
  end: 927.183
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Because if the Eucharist is what transformed Jesus' suffering from being an execution into a true and holy sacrifice, then the resurrection is what transformed that sacrifice into a sacrament that we can now do in remembrance of Him, because the resurrection of the Lord's body is precisely what makes that body not only come back alive, the resurrection is more than the resuscitation of His corpse, it's more than the vindication of His innocence.
  zh: 因为如果圣餐是将耶稣的苦难从处决转变为真实而神圣的祭献，那么复活就是将那个祭献转变为一个圣事，我们现在可以这样做来记念他，因为主的身体复活正是使那个身体不仅复活，复活不仅仅是他的尸体复苏，它不仅仅是证明他的无辜。
- start: 927.183
  end: 931.383
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The resurrection is the glorification of His sacred humanity.
  zh: 复活是他神圣人性的荣耀。
- start: 931.383
  end: 937.863
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: His sacred humanity, now resurrected, is both deified and deifying.
  zh: 他神圣的人性，现在复活了，既被神化，又具有神化能力。
- start: 937.863
  end: 942.203
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And the resurrection is what makes it communicable to us.
  zh: 复活正是使它能够传达给我们。
- start: 942.203
  end: 948.543
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It's what makes that glorified body, dare I say, edible by us.
  zh: 正是复活使那个荣耀的身体，我敢说，可以被我们食用。
- start: 948.543
  end: 961.543
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Which is why, when you study the synoptic traditions in John, you discover that each and every time you read about a resurrection appearance, just, it just so happens that, what day of the week does it always fall upon?
  zh: 这就是为什么，当你研究对观福音和约翰福音的传统时，你会发现每次你读到复活显现，恰好，它总是发生在星期几？
- start: 961.543
  end: 963.623
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Sunday.
  zh: 星期日。
- start: 963.623
  end: 964.643
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 964.643
  end: 977.123
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, you know, because that's the day He was resurrected, but that's also the day that these two disciples said, "You know, our hearts were burning within us when He opened up the Scriptures, but our eyes were only open..." When?
  zh: 嗯，你知道，因为那是他复活的日子，但那也是这两个门徒说：「你知道，当他给我们讲解圣经的时候，我们的心在我们里面火热，但我们的眼睛只是睁开了……」什么时候？
- start: 977.123
  end: 979.263
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In the breaking of the bread.
  zh: 在擘饼的时候。
- start: 979.263
  end: 981.883
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The Eucharistic celebration.
  zh: 圣餐庆典。
- start: 981.883
  end: 994.863
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so week after week, back then in the first century, Sunday after Sunday in the 21st century, it is the resurrected Lord of Lords and King of Kings who comes to us.
  zh: 所以周复一周，早在第一世纪，直到二十一世纪的每个星期日，来到我们这里的都是复活了的万主之主、万王之王。
- start: 994.863
  end: 1004.403
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It isn't the, the bleeding, battered body of Jesus hanging on the cross, though it is one and the same sacrifice that He offered on Calvary.
  zh: 它不是耶稣挂在十字架上流血、受创的身体，尽管这是他在髑髅地献上的同一个祭献。
- start: 1004.403
  end: 1032.043
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But the sacrifice that He offers, He now offers as the High Priest in Heaven, as Saint John describes it in the visions that we find in the Book of Revelation, that I tried my best to explain in The Lamb's Supper, as I experienced it in my very first Mass, where He is the Lamb of God, 28 times in 22 chapters, where He is the High Priest of the Heavenly Temple, where He is the one offering, and yet, He is also the Lamb who is offered.
  zh: 但他所献的祭，他现在作为天上的大祭司献上，正如圣约翰在启示录的异象中所描述的，我在《羔羊的晚宴》中尽力解释了这一点，就像我在第一次弥撒中体验到的那样，在那里他是神的羔羊，在 22 章中出现了 28 次，在那里他是天上圣殿的大祭司，在那里他是献祭者，然而，他也是被献上的羔羊。
- start: 1032.043
  end: 1040.503
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And in the Mass then, God's will is done on Earth as it is in Heaven more perfectly than anything else we do.
  zh: 因此，在弥撒中，神的旨意在地上成就，如同在天上一样，比我们所做的任何其他事情都更完美。
- start: 1040.503
  end: 1044.863
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The Eucharist is the resurrected Lord.
  zh: 圣餐是复活的主。
- start: 1044.863
  end: 1061.723
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And if we are the ones who are alive at the end of time when He comes again and reveals His glory, we may be in for a surprise because we're gonna discover that He won't have any more glory at the end than He already has now, not only up in Heaven, but in His Eucharistic presence.
  zh: 如果我们是末日他再来并显现他的荣耀时还活着的人，我们可能会感到惊讶，因为我们会发现他在末日不会比他现在已经拥有的荣耀更多，不仅在天上，而且在他的圣餐临在中。
- start: 1061.723
  end: 1065.443
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He is the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings.
  zh: 他是万主之主，万王之王。
- start: 1065.443
  end: 1077.203
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He comes to us under the appearance of bread and wine, but He comes to us as the resurrected, ascended, enthroned, glorified, deified, and deifying Jesus.
  zh: 他以饼和酒的外形来到我们中间，但他以复活、升天、登基、荣耀、被神化并具有神化能力的耶稣的身份来到我们中间。
- start: 1077.203
  end: 1087.803
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And that is why God the Father is not content with leaving His prodigal son in a far country, simply making an act of contrition.
  zh: 这就是为什么父神不满足于将他的浪子留在远方，仅仅做一次痛悔。
- start: 1087.803
  end: 1105.797
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That is just the beginning of a long journey.And when we come back home, and that's what fallen away Catholics are doing now by the thousands and the tens of thousands, they discover the mercy of a Father who loves them more than they ever imagined.
  zh: 那只是漫长旅程的开始。当我们回家时，成千上万的失散公教徒现在正在这样做，他们发现了一位父亲的怜悯，他爱他们超过他们所能想象的。
- start: 1105.797
  end: 1112.438
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But they also discover that the banquet that the Father is throwing is more than they ever expected.
  zh: 但他们也发现，父亲摆设的宴席超出了他们的预期。
- start: 1112.438
  end: 1120.817
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It is not a reward for our righteousness, it is a remedy for our sin and weakness and our failures.
  zh: 它不是我们义行的奖赏，而是我们罪恶、软弱和失败的补救。
- start: 1120.817
  end: 1124.437
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We are not worthy, but we sure are needy.
  zh: 我们不配，但我们确实需要。
- start: 1124.437
  end: 1133.178
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so, we're not only going out to re-evangelize the de-Christianized, we are going out being re-evangelized ourselves.
  zh: 所以，我们不仅要出去重新向非基督徒传福音，我们自己也在被重新传福音。
- start: 1133.178
  end: 1140.178
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We are coming here and being re-evangelized ourselves week after week after week.
  zh: 我们来到这里，周复一周地被重新传福音。
- start: 1140.178
  end: 1160.637
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I was talking to Chris, and he would keep bringing up, "Okay, so get me back to that question and its answer, 'Where in the New Testament do you find the sacrifice of the mass?'" On another occasion, in a different conversation, I pointed out to him what Jesus said and did there in the upper room when He instituted the Eucharist.
  zh: 我当时正和克里斯说话，他一直提起：「好吧，回到那个问题和它的答案，『你在新约中哪里找到弥撒的祭献？』」在另一个场合，在一次不同的谈话中，我向他指出了耶稣在楼上房间设立圣餐时所说和所做的事情。
- start: 1160.637
  end: 1163.837
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He takes this chalice and He says what?
  zh: 他拿起这个杯，他说什么？
- start: 1163.837
  end: 1172.157
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"This is the cup of My blood, the blood of the New Testament, the blood of the New Covenant, poured out for many for the remission of sins.'
  zh: 「这是我的血所立的杯，新约的血，为多人流出来，使罪得赦。
- start: 1172.157
  end: 1175.377
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Do this in remembrance of Me," or words to that effect.
  zh: 你们每逢喝的时候，要如此行，为的是记念我。」或者类似的话。
- start: 1175.377
  end: 1177.117
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I said, "Notice, Chris, what He said.
  zh: 我说：「克里斯，注意他说了什么。
- start: 1177.117
  end: 1185.757
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '''This is the cup of My blood, the blood of the koinē diathēkē." We can translate that New Covenant.'
  zh: 『这是我的血所立的杯，是 koinē diathēkē 的血。』我们可以翻译成新约。
- start: 1185.757
  end: 1188.497
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We can just as easily translate that New Testament.
  zh: 我们也可以同样容易地翻译成新约。
- start: 1188.497
  end: 1194.377
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"This is the blood of the New Testament, poured out for many for the remission of sins.'
  zh: 「这是新约的血，为多人流出来，使罪得赦。
- start: 1194.377
  end: 1195.417
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Drink this.
  zh: 喝这个。
- start: 1195.417
  end: 1204.637
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Do this in remembrance of Me." "Notice," I said, "Chris, He said, He didn't say, 'This is the cup of My blood, the blood of the New Testament.
  zh: 你们每逢喝的时候，要如此行，为的是记念我。」我说：「克里斯，注意，他说，他没有说，『这是我的血所立的杯，是新约的血。
- start: 1204.637
  end: 1213.397
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Write this in remembrance of Me.' He didn't say, 'Read this in remembrance of Me.' He said, 'Do this.'" Do what?
  zh: 写下这个来记念我。』他没有说，『读这个来记念我。』他说，『做这个。』」做什么？
- start: 1213.397
  end: 1214.637
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The New Testament.
  zh: 新约。
- start: 1214.637
  end: 1216.177
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And what's the New Testament?
  zh: 新约是什么？
- start: 1216.177
  end: 1221.437
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The New Testament is the Eucharist, according to the New Testament.
  zh: 根据新约，新约就是圣餐。
- start: 1221.437
  end: 1226.137
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Luke 22:20, First Corinthians Chapter 11 as well.
  zh: 路加福音 22:20，哥林多前书第 11 章也是。
- start: 1226.137
  end: 1238.057
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He didn't say, "Write this in remembrance of Me," and in fact, over half of the 12 in the upper room never ended up contributing a single book to the collection of 27 that we now call the New Testament.
  zh: 他没有说：「写下这个来记念我」，事实上，楼上房间里的十二个人中，有一半以上从未为我们现在称为新约的 27 本书贡献过一本书。
- start: 1238.057
  end: 1245.297
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But not because they were lazy or disobedient, but because He didn't say, "Write this in remembrance." He said, "Do this." And guess what?
  zh: 但不是因为他们懒惰或不顺服，而是因为他没有说：「写下这个来记念。」他说：「做这个。」你猜怎么着？
- start: 1245.297
  end: 1247.537
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: They all went out doing this.
  zh: 他们都出去做这件事了。
- start: 1247.537
  end: 1261.737
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: They were proclaiming the Gospel, they were instructing the repentant, they were then baptizing, and they were celebrating the breaking of the bread from the very beginning, as we read in Acts 2:42, and again in Acts 20 and elsewhere.
  zh: 他们传扬福音，教导悔改的人，然后施洗，并且从一开始就庆祝擘饼，正如我们在使徒行传 2:42 中读到的，以及使徒行传 20 章和其他地方。
- start: 1261.737
  end: 1271.477
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So Jesus says, "This is the cup of My blood, the blood of the New Testament." He says, "Do this in remembrance of Me," not write this.
  zh: 所以耶稣说：「这是我的血所立的杯，是新约的血。」他说：「你们每逢喝的时候，要如此行，为的是记念我」，而不是写下这个。
- start: 1271.477
  end: 1293.057
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So I said, "Chris, the plain and simple fact that I had to learn the hard way was this, that the New Testament was a sacrament long before it ever started to become a document, according to the document." It was like a zinger for him, but much earlier for me.
  zh: 所以我说：「克里斯，我不得不艰难地学到的一个简单事实是，根据这份文件，新约在开始成为一份文件之前很久就是一个圣事了。」这对他说来像是一记重击，但对我来说则早得多。
- start: 1293.057
  end: 1297.177
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It was really a rat zinger because that was the guy who taught me.
  zh: 这真是一记重击，因为那个人就是教我的人。
- start: 1297.177
  end: 1298.557
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Oh, I'm sorry.
  zh: 哦，对不起。
- start: 1298.557
  end: 1312.577
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I should have resisted that temptation, but in fact, it was then Professor Joseph, you know, cardinal before he was Pope Benedict, who taught me, just like the fathers, all that I was trying to share with Chris.
  zh: 我本该抵制那个诱惑，但事实上，是当时的约瑟夫教授，你知道，在成为本笃教宗之前是枢机主教，他教导了我，就像教父们一样，所有我试图与克里斯分享的东西。
- start: 1312.577
  end: 1318.777
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The New Testament is a sacrament long before it starts to become a document, according to the document.
  zh: 根据这份文件，新约在开始成为一份文件之前很久就是一个圣事了。
- start: 1318.777
  end: 1321.537
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And he asked me to clarify that.
  zh: 他让我澄清这一点。
- start: 1321.537
  end: 1334.257
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And I said, "Well, the early Church and the apostles went out preaching, baptizing, and celebrating the New Covenant, the New Testament in the Holy Eucharist for years in all directions.
  zh: 我说：「嗯，早期教会和使徒们出去传道、施洗，并在圣餐中庆祝新约、新遗嘱，多年来遍及各地。
- start: 1334.257
  end: 1342.097
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But in actual fact, the New Testament books weren't begun for at least 10 or 15, maybe 20 years after Jesus' death and resurrection.
  zh: 但实际上，新约的书籍至少在耶稣死后和复活后 10 到 15 年，也许 20 年后才开始写作。
- start: 1342.097
  end: 1346.797
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And they weren't really completed until the end of the first century.
  zh: 直到第一世纪末才真正完成。
- start: 1346.797
  end: 1364.997
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But as a matter of historical fact, it's interesting to notice that these documents that were being read in the Church, especially in her Sunday liturgy, were never referred to as the New Testament until the second half of the second century.
  zh: 但作为一个历史事实，有趣的是，这些在教会中，尤其是在主日礼仪中被阅读的文件，直到第二世纪下半叶才被称为新约。
- start: 1364.997
  end: 1373.957
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Those are the earliest references we find documented to these books being called the New Testament.
  zh: 这些是我们发现的最早记载这些书被称为新约的文献。
- start: 1373.957
  end: 1379.517
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And why were they suddenly being called the New Testament at the end of the second century?
  zh: 为什么它们在第二世纪末突然被称为新约呢？
- start: 1379.517
  end: 1387.637
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Because of their liturgical proximity to what had been called the New Testament since the first half of the first century.
  zh: 因为它们在礼仪上与自第一世纪上半叶以来被称为新约的东西很接近。
- start: 1387.637
  end: 1389.297
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And what was that?
  zh: 那是什么？
- start: 1389.297
  end: 1390.637
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The Eucharist.
  zh: 圣餐。
- start: 1390.637
  end: 1393.677
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That Jesus Himself called the New Testament.
  zh: 耶稣自己称之为新约。
- start: 1393.677
  end: 1401.257
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Jesus never uses that word diathēkē, covenant or testament, any other time except when He instituted the Eucharist.
  zh: 耶稣除了在设立圣餐时，从未在其他任何时候使用过 diathēkē 这个词，无论是盟约还是遗嘱。
- start: 1401.257
  end: 1405.597
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And when He did, He said, "This is the cup of My blood, the blood of the New Testament.
  zh: 当他这样做时，他说：「这是我的血所立的杯，是新约的血。
- start: 1405.597
  end: 1428.977
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Do this in remembrance of Me." I said, "Not only is the New Testament a sacrament long before it starts to become a document, but it also gives us an answer to that question I used to ask you all the time, Chris, 'Where in the New Testament do you find the sacrifice of the mass?' The sacrifice of the mass is the New Testament, according to the New Testament."
  zh: 你们每逢喝的时候，要如此行，为的是记念我。」我说：「新约不仅在开始成为一份文件之前很久就是一个圣事，而且它也回答了我以前经常问你的那个问题，克里斯，『你在新约中哪里找到弥撒的祭献？』根据新约，弥撒的祭献就是新约。」
