- start: 0.099
  end: 1.32
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Welcome back to Shameless Popery.
  zh: 欢迎回到《无畏公教》。
- start: 1.32
  end: 10.039
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I'm Joe Heschmeyer, and I want to wish you a happy Holy Thursday as we commemorate the Last Supper of Jesus Christ in which He institutes the Eucharist and the priesthood.
  zh: 我是乔·赫施迈尔，祝大家圣周四快乐。今天我们纪念耶稣基督的最后晚餐，在那一刻他设立了圣餐和祭司职分。
- start: 10.039
  end: 19.079
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And I know many of you hearing that are already saying, "Ah, it's not really what we believe, you know, in my tradition as an Evangelical Protestant," or whatever you may be.
  zh: 我知道你们当中很多人在听到这些时，可能会说：「啊，这并不是我们所相信的，比如在我作为福音派新教徒的传统里，或者你们自己的信仰背景。」
- start: 19.079
  end: 31.179
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Because unfortunately, while the Lord's Supper should be a place of Christian unity, this is where we become one in Christ, it's become, between Catholics and Protestants, a place of real division.
  zh: 很遗憾，主的晚餐本应是基督徒合一的地方，是我们在基督里合而为一的时刻，但在公教徒和新教徒之间，这却成了真正分歧的地方。
- start: 31.179
  end: 47.939
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And not only between Catholics and Protestants, but between Protestants and Protestants, that the understandings of the Eucharist or the Lord's Supper you might find in a, an Anglican or a Lutheran service are going to be radically different from what you might find in a Baptist or non-denominational one.
  zh: 而且不仅仅是在公教徒和新教徒之间，甚至在新教徒内部，比如圣公会或路德宗的礼仪中对圣餐或主的晚餐的理解，和浸信会或非宗派教会中的理解也有很大不同。
- start: 47.939
  end: 82.219
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And in particular, there's a lot of controversy over a claim that we as Catholics make, not only that Christ is present in the Eucharist, not only that the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ, but that in a strange way, we are actually participating in the one sacrifice of Christ, that many Protestants who are fine saying Christ is somehow present in, with, and under the bread and wine, or in some other way in the Eucharist, are not okay with the idea that this is the one propitiatory sacrifice of Christ.
  zh: 特别是，有一个我们公教徒所坚持的主张引发了很多争议：不仅仅是基督临于圣餐中，不仅仅是饼和酒成为基督的身体和宝血，更是以一种奇妙的方式，我们实际上在参与基督唯一的祭献。许多新教徒虽然可以接受基督以某种方式临在于饼和酒之中，但他们无法接受圣餐就是基督唯一赎罪祭献的观点。
- start: 82.219
  end: 97.919
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So I'm gonna give you a short presentation of the Catholic position, and then three common objections that I hear, uh, to the Catholic claim, and then show you why these objections don't actually understand the Biblical meaning of sacrifice.
  zh: 所以我接下来会简要介绍一下公教的立场，然后列举三个我常听到的反对意见，并向你们说明这些反对其实并没有真正理解圣经中关于祭献的意义。
- start: 97.919
  end: 104.739
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: They don't understand either what Catholics are saying, or more importantly in some ways, what the Bible is saying about sacrifice.
  zh: 这些反对者既没有理解公教徒在说什么，更重要的是，他们没有明白圣经关于祭献的教导。
- start: 104.739
  end: 115.619
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So without any further ado, the catechism in paragraph 1367 says that, "The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice." Now, how can that be?
  zh: 那我们直接进入正题。教理第1367段说：「基督的祭献和圣餐的祭献是同一个祭献。」那这怎么可能呢？
- start: 115.619
  end: 117.859
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Because the victim is one and the same.
  zh: 因为祭品是同一个。
- start: 117.859
  end: 124.639
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"The same," meaning the same Jesus, "offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered Himself on the cross.'
  zh: 「同一个」指的就是同一位耶稣，「他藉着祭司的职务奉献自己，正如他当年在十字架上奉献自己一样。
- start: 124.639
  end: 129.279
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Only the manner of offering is different." So it's one and the same sacrifice.
  zh: 只是奉献的方式不同。」所以这是同一个祭献。
- start: 129.279
  end: 130.899
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It's not a second crucifixion.
  zh: 这并不是第二次钉十字架。
- start: 130.899
  end: 132.519
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's going to be very important.
  zh: 这一点非常重要。
- start: 132.519
  end: 137.319
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Uh, but this is somehow participation in Christ's one sacrifice.
  zh: 但这确实是以某种方式参与基督唯一的祭献。
- start: 137.319
  end: 150.979
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And since, "In the divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered Himself once in an, in a bloody manner upon the altar of the cross is contained and offered in an un-bloody manner.
  zh: 而且，「在弥撒中所举行的神的祭献里，那位曾经在十字架上以流血的方式奉献自己的基督，如今以无流血的方式被包含和奉献。
- start: 150.979
  end: 156.719
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This sacrifice is truly propitiatory," meaning it appeases God.
  zh: 这祭献是真正的赎罪祭」，也就是说，它能使神的义得到满足。
- start: 156.719
  end: 163.799
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The, the justice of God is met in some way in the offering of the Eucharist at the Mass.
  zh: 在弥撒中奉献圣餐时，神的公义以某种方式得到了满足。
- start: 163.799
  end: 168.119
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, that's gonna be confusing for a lot of reasons.
  zh: 这其中有很多让人困惑的地方。
- start: 168.119
  end: 172.899
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Number one, this distinction between the bloody and the un-bloody manner is already confusing.
  zh: 首先，「流血」和「无流血」的区别本身就让人难以理解。
- start: 172.899
  end: 173.659
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: What was meant by that?
  zh: 这到底是什么意思呢？
- start: 173.659
  end: 175.999
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, let's find that out at the outset just so we understand what's going on.
  zh: 那我们一开始就来弄清楚这个问题，好让大家明白这里说的是什么。
- start: 175.999
  end: 187.059
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Because you might say, "How could you say it's un-bloody when we're offering the body and blood of Christ?" Well, because bloody doesn't just mean blood is present, but that the pouring of blood.
  zh: 你可能会问：「既然我们奉献的是基督的身体和宝血，怎么能说是无流血的呢？」其实，「流血」不仅仅是指有血存在，更是指血被倾倒出来。
- start: 187.059
  end: 192.779
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Like I wouldn't describe you as bloody right now unless you've got like an open wound I don't know about.
  zh: 比如说，除非你身上有我没看到的伤口，我不会说你现在是「流血」的。
- start: 192.779
  end: 195.899
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You have blood, but that blood is not being poured out.
  zh: 你体内有血，但你的血并没有被倾倒出来。
- start: 195.899
  end: 202.879
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So we talk about the bloody sacrifice of Christ on the cross as opposed to the un-bloody way in which Christ is presented now.
  zh: 所以我们说基督在十字架上的祭献是流血的，而现在基督的奉献则是无流血的方式。
- start: 202.879
  end: 205.279
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We're saying we're not pouring out His blood again.
  zh: 我们并不是在再次倾倒他的宝血。
- start: 205.279
  end: 207.459
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We are not re-crucifying Christ.
  zh: 我们不是在重新把基督钉在十字架上。
- start: 207.459
  end: 215.759
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's very important, 'cause this is one of the most common ways, uh, that I see Protestants misunderstand what Catholics are claiming in the first place.
  zh: 这一点非常重要，因为这是我看到新教徒最常误解公教立场的地方之一。
- start: 215.759
  end: 223.859
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So to make sense of this, already you have to have a sense that sacrifice is more than the pouring of blood.
  zh: 所以要理解这一点，你首先要明白，祭献不仅仅是流血而已。
- start: 223.859
  end: 229.199
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's gonna be a common thread to how many Evangelicals today misunderstand it.
  zh: 这也是许多当代福音派信徒误解祭献的共同原因。
- start: 229.199
  end: 230.259
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And, and understandably.
  zh: 这其实也可以理解。
- start: 230.259
  end: 233.879
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: When we think about the sacrifice of Christ, we're imagining Good Friday.
  zh: 当我们想到基督的祭献时，脑海里浮现的往往是受难日。
- start: 233.879
  end: 239.939
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But in fact, Biblically, the sacrifice of Christ includes Holy Thursday.
  zh: 但实际上，从圣经来看，基督的祭献也包括圣周四。
- start: 239.939
  end: 244.099
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It includes even the Ascension into Heaven, and we're gonna see all of that as we go.
  zh: 甚至还包括升天。接下来我们会一一看到这些。
- start: 244.099
  end: 244.759
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Biblically.
  zh: 都是有圣经根据的。
- start: 244.759
  end: 246.339
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You don't have to take my word for it.
  zh: 你们不用只听我的说法。
- start: 246.339
  end: 248.359
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I can show you it in the Bible.
  zh: 我可以在圣经里给你们指出来。
- start: 248.359
  end: 257.859
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So, what are the objections people are gonna have to this view, that the Mass is the re-presentation of the sacrifice of Christ on the cross?
  zh: 那么，人们会对「弥撒是基督十字架祭献的重现」这个观点提出哪些反对意见呢？
- start: 257.859
  end: 261.339
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, one of them is going to be a pretty strong one, frankly.
  zh: 坦白说，其中有一个反对意见还挺有力的。
- start: 261.339
  end: 272.419
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Hebrews 7:27 says that Jesus has no need, like those high priests, meaning the Old Testament ones, "to offer sacrifices daily, first for His own sins and then for those of the people.
  zh: 来看看希伯来书7章27节：「他不像那些大祭司，必须天天先为自己的罪，后为百姓的罪献祭。」这里的大祭司指的是旧约里的那些人。
- start: 272.419
  end: 286.519
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He did this once for all when He offered Himself, or offered up Himself." And so, you know, on, on the face of it, here you've got the Catholic Church every day offering the sacrifice of the Mass for the remission of sins.
  zh: 「他只一次将自己献上，就把这事成全了。」所以，表面上看，公教会每天都在为赦罪举行弥撒祭献。
- start: 286.519
  end: 291.879
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And then you've got this text in Hebrews that sounds like, oh, we're not gonna need to do that as Christians.
  zh: 而希伯来书这段经文听起来好像在说，作为基督徒，我们不需要再这样做了。
- start: 291.879
  end: 297.379
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so if you don't understand Hebrews 7 is actually saying, that looks like just a flat-out contradiction.
  zh: 所以如果你不明白希伯来书7章真正的意思，这看起来就像是直接的矛盾。
- start: 297.379
  end: 307.059
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And you might be wondering, why in the world were the early Christians convinced they were continuing every week and even every day to re-present the sacrifice of Christ?
  zh: 你可能会想，为什么早期基督徒会坚信他们每周、甚至每天都在重现基督的祭献呢？
- start: 307.059
  end: 313.919
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Because please understand, what I'm describing here isn't some late modern, medieval, whatever Catholic view.
  zh: 请明白，我说的这些并不是近现代、甚至中世纪才有的公教观点。
- start: 313.919
  end: 319.159
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You can find the earliest Christians speaking in no uncertain terms about this very point.
  zh: 你可以在最早期的基督徒著作中，清楚地看到他们就是这样说的。
- start: 319.159
  end: 329.459
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In fact, as far back as the first century, in- indeed, we're gonna see even within the text of scripture itself, there is this understanding that this is the sacrifice of Christ.
  zh: 事实上，早在第一世纪，甚至在圣经文本本身里，我们都能看到这种「这是基督的祭献」的理解。
- start: 329.459
  end: 335.959
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So why would we believe that when Hebrews 7:27 seems to say the opposite?
  zh: 那为什么我们会相信这一点，而希伯来书7章27节看起来却说了相反的话呢？
- start: 335.959
  end: 344.299
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And I want you to just hold that in mind, because that's going to be a lot of what we're, we're looking at in making sense of what Hebrews is actually talking about.
  zh: 我希望你们先记住这个问题，因为接下来我们会花很多时间来解释希伯来书到底在说什么。
- start: 344.299
  end: 347.979
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But I want to give two other objections that you might hear along the way.
  zh: 不过我还想再举出另外两个你们可能会听到的反对意见。
- start: 347.979
  end: 351.299
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The second one, this is, uh, literally from a week ago.
  zh: 第二个反对意见，实际上就是上周我刚听到的。
- start: 351.299
  end: 353.519
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: A Protestant elder gave a...
  zh: 一位新教长老发表了一个……
- start: 353.519
  end: 361.341
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: For some reason, a lot of Evangelicals who don't understand Catholicism at all think it's important to give sermons during-...
  zh: 不知为何，许多完全不了解公教的福音派信徒，总觉得在……
- start: 361.341
  end: 367.621
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: their own liturgical life, like during their own church services, where it's a bunch of evangelicals gathered together.
  zh: 他们自己的礼拜生活中，比如在自己的教会聚会时，都是一群福音派信徒聚在一起。
- start: 367.621
  end: 375.201
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And instead of, like, presenting anything about J- like, Jesus' death and resurrection, they gossip about Catholicism and give false teachings.
  zh: 他们没有讲述耶稣的死亡和复活，反而在讲台上议论公教，传播错误的教导。
- start: 375.201
  end: 377.461
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And that's unfortunate, but this is a thing you're gonna find.
  zh: 这很遗憾，但你确实会遇到这种情况。
- start: 377.461
  end: 385.301
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so, this sermon was called How Rome Re-crucifies Christ, the Fatal Error Behind Roman Catholic Eucharist.
  zh: 所以，这篇讲道的题目叫做《罗马如何再次钉死基督——罗马公教圣餐背后的致命错误》。
- start: 385.301
  end: 398.121
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And now, even from the title, you should be able to say, "Oh, that's exactly the opposite of what the catechism just said." They just said it wasn't re-crucifying Christ, it's representing his once for all death on the cross.
  zh: 光从标题你就能看出来：「哦，这和教理刚才说的完全相反。」教理明明说不是再次钉死基督，而是重现他在十字架上的一次性死亡。
- start: 398.121
  end: 403.661
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But okay, here's how that elder claims Catholic theology works.
  zh: 好吧，下面是那位长老对公教神学的描述。
- start: 403.661
  end: 408.801
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And I want to be fair, I don't think he's intentionally lying, although he couldn't be much further from the truth.
  zh: 我要公正一点说，我不认为他是故意撒谎，虽然他的说法和事实相去甚远。
- start: 408.801
  end: 414.061
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I think he just does not understand what the Bible or the church says about sacrifice.
  zh: 我认为他只是没有理解圣经或教会关于祭献的教导。
- start: 414.061
  end: 418.601
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: So when you go to a Roman Catholic church, at the front is not a pulpit, it's an altar.
  zh: 所以当你走进一间罗马公教会时，前面不是讲台，而是祭坛。
- start: 418.601
  end: 436.141
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And on that altar, the priest conducts a service called the Mass or the Eucharist, whereby he calls down the physical body, the physical blood, the soul, and the divinity of Christ to come into the actual elements.
  zh: 在那个祭坛上，祭司举行一个叫做弥撒或圣餐的仪式，他祈求基督的真实身体、宝血、灵魂和神性降临到饼和酒上。
- start: 436.141
  end: 443.941
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Transubstantiation, transforming the elements into Christ.
  zh: 这就是所谓的「本质转变」，把饼和酒变成基督。
- start: 443.941
  end: 448.581
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And then once the priest does that, what does he do?
  zh: 那么，祭司完成这一切后，他接下来做什么呢？
- start: 448.581
  end: 451.721
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: He re-kills Christ.
  zh: 他再次杀死基督。
- start: 451.721
  end: 454.701
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: He re-crucifies him.
  zh: 他再次把基督钉在十字架上。
- start: 454.701
  end: 464.701
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: He transforms the elements, and then he takes the wafer and he holds it up, and he breaks the "body" of Jesus again.
  zh: 他把饼和酒变成基督，然后举起圣餐饼，再次掰开耶稣的「身体」。
- start: 464.701
  end: 473.101
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, if you understand Catholic theology at all, you realize this is a really cringe-worthy misunderstanding of the Catholic claim.
  zh: 如果你对公教神学有一点了解，你就会发现这完全是对公教立场的极大误解，令人尴尬。
- start: 473.101
  end: 491.601
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Remember in paragraph 1367, where it says, "The same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross, is contained and offered in an un-bloody manner now with the Eucharist." So, very explicitly, the church is saying, "Yeah, we don't re-kill Christ.
  zh: 还记得教理第1367段怎么说的吗？「那位曾经在十字架上以流血方式奉献自己的基督，如今在圣餐中以无流血的方式被包含和奉献。」所以，教会非常明确地说：「我们并不是在再次杀死基督。」
- start: 491.601
  end: 501.901
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We don't think we're doing Good Friday every day, in terms of, like, sacrificing Christ over and over again in separate sacrificial actions, where we're killing him time and time and time again.
  zh: 我们并不认为自己每天都在重演受难日，不是在不断地、一次又一次地把基督当作祭品杀死。
- start: 501.901
  end: 516.181
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We're not re-crucifying Christ." And yet, this is a very common Evangelical misunderstanding, and I think what it points to is not just how badly Evangelicals tend to misunderstand Catholicism, but how badly they misunderstand the Bible.
  zh: 我们不是在重新把基督钉十字架。然而，这却是福音派很常见的误解。我认为这不仅反映出他们对公教的误解，更反映出他们对圣经的误解。
- start: 516.181
  end: 517.061
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Namely this.
  zh: 具体来说，就是这样。
- start: 517.061
  end: 524.441
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Many of us, when we imagine what the Bible means by sacrifice, just in- have en- envisioned this idea of ritual killing.
  zh: 我们很多人在想象圣经中的「祭献」时，只会把它当作一种仪式性的杀戮。
- start: 524.441
  end: 530.441
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But as we're going to see, the Biblical meaning of sacrifice involves a lot more than that.
  zh: 但我们接下来会看到，圣经中「祭献」的意义远不止于此。
- start: 530.441
  end: 533.441
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I'm gonna give you plenty of Biblical examples as we go.
  zh: 接下来我会举出许多圣经中的例子。
- start: 533.441
  end: 544.961
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But for now, just realize what we have here isn't just a, a misrepresentation of the Catholic view, but a misrepresentation of the Biblical idea of sacrifice, and a very common one.
  zh: 但现在你要明白，这不仅仅是对公教观点的误解，更是对圣经中祭献观念的误解，而且是非常普遍的误解。
- start: 544.961
  end: 551.581
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, the third objection you'll hear is, "Well, no, this cannot be the............................
  zh: 接下来你会听到第三个反对意见：「不，这绝对不可能是……
- start: 551.581
  end: 561.001
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: of the sacrifice of Christ in any sense, because Christ, on the cross, said, 'It is finished.'" And you'll hear this very popular story about what those words mean.
  zh: ……基督祭献的任何一种重现，因为基督在十字架上说过『成了』。」你会听到很多人讲述这句话的流行解释。
- start: 561.001
  end: 566.121
  speaker: speaker_2
  en: He said, "It is finished." And he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
  zh: 他宣告：「成了！」低下头，交出灵魂。
- start: 566.121
  end: 573.481
  speaker: speaker_2
  en: The English phrase that's translated "it is finished," is a single word in the original Greek text, tetelestai.
  zh: 英文的「it is finished」在希腊原文中是一个词：tetelestai（τετέλεσται）。
- start: 573.481
  end: 580.001
  speaker: speaker_2
  en: It means that something has been brought to its final conclusion, fully accomplished, and nothing more needs to be added.
  zh: 它的意思是某件事已经完全完成，彻底结束，不需要再加添什么。
- start: 580.001
  end: 584.961
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So you'll notice, all that's saying is, "It is finished," means it is finished.
  zh: 所以你会注意到，这句话的意思就是「成了」就是「成了」。
- start: 584.961
  end: 591.781
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This idea of, "Nothing more needs to be added," that's not actually found in the Greek, that's just theology being applied on top of the Greek.
  zh: 「不需要再加添什么」这个想法，其实并不在希腊文原意里，这是后人加上去的神学解释。
- start: 591.781
  end: 601.761
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And we can get into whether that theology is right or wrong, but saying something is fulfilled or finished doesn't actually, by itself, say that there's not gonna be anything else added.
  zh: 我们可以讨论这种神学解释是否正确，但「成就」或「完成」本身并不意味着之后不会再有别的事情发生。
- start: 601.761
  end: 606.021
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Like, when Christ fulfills scripture, that doesn't mean that there are gonna be no more scriptures.
  zh: 比如说，基督成就了经上的话，并不代表以后就不会再有别的经文。
- start: 606.021
  end: 613.481
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And, as we're gonna see, it's a very relevant example, because the same language is gonna be used for Christ's fulfillment of scripture.
  zh: 而且我们会看到，这个例子很贴切，因为同样的词语也用于基督成就经上的话。
- start: 613.481
  end: 620.701
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In fact, on the cross, when Jesus says, "It is finished," he's talking about scripture.
  zh: 事实上，耶稣在十字架上说「成了」时，他指的是经上的话已经应验。
- start: 620.701
  end: 622.641
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But that's not what many Evangelicals will tell you.
  zh: 但许多福音派信徒不会这样解释。
- start: 622.641
  end: 630.661
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: They'll tell you, "'It is finished,' is this common expression that you find in a bunch of places, but allegedly, particularly in one."
  zh: 他们会告诉你：「『成了』是一个常见的表达，尤其是在某些特定场合。」
- start: 630.661
  end: 638.401
  speaker: speaker_2
  en: However, it was most commonly used in Greek business, in association with the repayment of debts, when the final balance was paid off.
  zh: 他们说，这个词在希腊商业中最常用来指还清债务、结清账目。
- start: 638.401
  end: 645.301
  speaker: speaker_2
  en: The creditor would write the word tetelestai across the certificate of debt, signifying that it was paid in full.
  zh: 债主会在债务凭证上写下「tetelestai」，表示债务已经还清。
- start: 645.301
  end: 650.461
  speaker: speaker_2
  en: It meant that the obligation was completely satisfied, and the debtor was free.
  zh: 意思就是债务完全满足，债务人获得自由。
- start: 650.461
  end: 655.101
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: As you can imagine, people like to draw profound theological meanings from this.
  zh: 你可以想象，人们很喜欢从这里引申出深刻的神学意义。
- start: 655.101
  end: 675.241
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So it's, "Look, we don't have to do anything, because Christ pays our debt in full, and that's what tetelestai means when he says, 'It is finished.'" The problem is, this is just literally not true, including all of the alleged claims about ancient documents that had tetelestai written on, you know, debts that were owed, and then this was a way of saying that it was filled out.
  zh: 所以他们说：「看，我们什么都不用做，因为基督已经完全偿还了我们的债务，这就是他在说『成了』时tetelestai的意思。」但问题是，这根本不是事实，包括那些所谓的古代文献上写有tetelestai来表示债务还清的说法，其实并不存在。
- start: 675.241
  end: 680.981
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This is a 19th century error that we've known was false for more than 90 years.
  zh: 这是十九世纪的一个错误，我们已经知道它是错的，超过九十年了。
- start: 680.981
  end: 692.361
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In fact, if you, you don't have to take my word for it as a Catholic, Biola University's Talbot School of Theology, uh, Dr. Gary Manning, who I believe is the head of the MDiv program there, but I may be mistaken about that.
  zh: 事实上，你不用只听我这个公教徒的话。美国拜欧拉大学塔尔博特神学院的加里·曼宁博士（我记得他是那里的道学硕士项目主任，不过也可能记错了），
- start: 692.361
  end: 698.801
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He, in any case, he's done work on this exact area, and he went to find out if this was true.
  zh: 他专门研究过这个问题，去查证这种说法是否属实。
- start: 698.801
  end: 719.121
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He, in his words, he says, "Since I'm writing a commentary on John, thought it'd be worthwhile to look at all the papyri on which this claim was based." Because this idea, this, this notion that this was a common thing used for, uh, the repayment of debt, is coming from receipts, particularly 40 tariff import/export receipts found in Egypt.
  zh: 他自己说：「既然我要写约翰福音注释，我觉得有必要查阅所有据称支持这种说法的纸草文献。」因为这种说法主要来自一些收据，尤其是埃及发现的四十份关税进出口收据。
- start: 719.121
  end: 722.141
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And what he finds is that none of them actually say tetelestai.
  zh: 他发现，这些收据里没有一份真的写有tetelestai。
- start: 722.141
  end: 725.021
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Instead they just say total, it's an abbreviation.
  zh: 它们只写了「total」，那其实是一个缩写。
- start: 725.021
  end: 737.896
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And the problem with that is that there are at least five different Greek words that begin with total.And the one that this obviously refers to is not tetelestai, but instead, the term taxed or paid as taxes.
  zh: 问题在于，希腊文里至少有五个以「total」开头的词。而这些收据上显然不是指tetelestai，而是指「征税」或「已纳税」。
- start: 737.896
  end: 738.676
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 738.676
  end: 740.735
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Because these are tax documents.
  zh: 因为这些是税务文件。
- start: 740.735
  end: 753.075
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so when you see tax documents with the beginning of the word for tax in Greek, the obvious word that you're looking for there is a word for the taxes were paid, not the debt is paid in full.
  zh: 所以当你在税务文件上看到希腊文以「total」开头的词，很明显指的是「税已缴清」，而不是「债务已还清」。
- start: 753.075
  end: 758.895
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, this matters because, well, for one, we've known this since at least 1934.
  zh: 这很重要，因为至少自1934年以来我们就已经知道这一点。
- start: 758.895
  end: 771.956
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And the publishers of the papyri realized that they had misunderstood this as being short for tetelestai, and the official papyri databases now recognize the correct translation as, as the payment of taxes.
  zh: 那些纸草文献的出版者后来也意识到，他们误把这个缩写当成了tetelestai，现在官方的纸草文献数据库都把它正确地译为「已纳税」。
- start: 771.956
  end: 785.275
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But more importantly, this means that in John 19 when Jesus cries out, "Tetelestai," He's not saying, "I paid your taxes," nor is he saying, "I paid your debt of sin," because that's not the way the term was used.
  zh: 更重要的是，这意味着在约翰福音19章里，耶稣喊出「tetelestai」时，他既不是在说「我替你们交了税」，也不是在说「我还清了你们的罪债」，因为这个词根本不是这样用的。
- start: 785.275
  end: 791.055
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And all of the papyri that allegedly support that don't because they were looking at the wrong word.
  zh: 而那些据称支持这种说法的纸草文献其实根本不是这个词，他们搞错了缩写。
- start: 791.055
  end: 802.995
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: They- it was, you know, a sh- a shortened abbreviation, and they guessed the wrong abbreviation, and it's now very clear to anyone involved that on a tax document that the word is about taxes, not a, you know...
  zh: 他们看到的是一个缩写，但猜错了缩写的含义。现在所有研究者都很清楚，在税务文件上，这个词指的是税，而不是……
- start: 802.995
  end: 807.675
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: L- it, it's really tempting to view it as tetelestai, but it just doesn't make sense in context.
  zh: 虽然很容易让人误以为是tetelestai，但在语境中根本说不通。
- start: 807.675
  end: 812.515
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But fine, that just shows that those 40 documents, that wasn't the case.
  zh: 好吧，这只能说明那四十份文件并不是这种情况。
- start: 812.515
  end: 816.895
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But Dr. Manning then decided to look around to find any other place where you...
  zh: 但曼宁博士接着又去查找有没有其他地方……
- start: 816.895
  end: 825.395
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '''Cause you have actual documents where debts are paid off and not one of them uses to tell or tetelestai, uh, to describe paid in full.'
  zh: 因为确实有一些债务还清的文件，但没有一份用「to tell」或「tetelestai」来表示「已还清」。
- start: 825.395
  end: 838.955
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It just is literally not used in any ancient document, any of the ancient Greek sources, any of the ancient Greek papyri, any ancient Greek inscriptions to use this thing that it allegedly frequently most commonly meant.
  zh: 在任何古代文献、希腊文献、希腊纸草文献、希腊铭文中，都没有用tetelestai来表达所谓「最常见」的「债务已还清」这个意思。
- start: 838.955
  end: 842.115
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It just literally did not mean that.
  zh: 它根本没有这个意思。
- start: 842.115
  end: 852.355
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And then he points out that contextually, John 19, there's a much more obvious explanation, that what does Jesus mean by tetelestai?
  zh: 然后他指出，从约翰福音19章的语境来看，有一个更明显的解释：耶稣说「tetelestai」到底是什么意思？
- start: 852.355
  end: 854.435
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, look at the Greek of John 19.
  zh: 我们来看约翰福音19章的希腊原文。
- start: 854.435
  end: 856.035
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Jesus says...
  zh: 耶稣说……
- start: 856.035
  end: 861.795
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, or excuse me, John says that Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, again, tetelestai is used right there.
  zh: 或者说，约翰记载耶稣知道一切都已经成了，这里用的也是tetelestai。
- start: 861.795
  end: 864.475
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So here's an important bit.
  zh: 这里有个很重要的地方。
- start: 864.475
  end: 870.735
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: John 19:28 uses tetelestai, and then verse 30 uses tetelestai.
  zh: 约翰福音19章28节用了tetelestai，30节也用了tetelestai。
- start: 870.735
  end: 881.195
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And evangelicals take his meaning in verse 30 without acknowledging the meaning in verse 28 'cause in verse 28, what's being fulfilled is not a debt of sin.
  zh: 而福音派只看30节的意思，却忽略了28节的意思，因为28节成就的并不是罪债。
- start: 881.195
  end: 883.435
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: What's being fulfilled is the scripture.
  zh: 成就的是经上的话。
- start: 883.435
  end: 886.635
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That scripture is now being fulfilled.
  zh: 经上的话现在应验了。
- start: 886.635
  end: 896.415
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And then in case we missed it, in case we had any ambiguity, John says, after having said, "All was now fulfilled," he then says, "To fulfill the scripture," and uses a, a variant.
  zh: 如果我们还没明白，约翰在说「一切都成了」之后，又补充说「为要应验经上的话」，并用了一个变体。
- start: 896.415
  end: 898.035
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The, uh, tetelestai.
  zh: 就是「tetelestai」。
- start: 898.035
  end: 899.335
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Tetelestai.
  zh: 「tetelestai」。
- start: 899.335
  end: 907.115
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And, and so it's very clear from John 20- 19:28 to 30 what it is that's being fulfilled here.
  zh: 所以从约翰福音19章28到30节可以很清楚地看出，这里成就的是经上的话。
- start: 907.115
  end: 908.995
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Scripture is being fulfilled here.
  zh: 这里应验的是圣经。
- start: 908.995
  end: 913.955
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, how is scripture being fulfilled by Jesus saying, "I thirst"?
  zh: 那么，耶稣说「我渴了」是怎样应验了经上的话？
- start: 913.955
  end: 916.995
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Why does John say that he says this to fulfill the scripture?
  zh: 为什么约翰说耶稣这样说是为要应验经上的话？
- start: 916.995
  end: 920.495
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I mean, surely, Jesus was thirsty before this.
  zh: 毕竟，耶稣在这之前肯定也渴过。
- start: 920.495
  end: 926.495
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, there's a whole sacrificial dimension, and I really was tempted to explore that.
  zh: 其实这里还有一个完整的祭献层面，我本来很想深入探讨。
- start: 926.495
  end: 933.575
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But I didn't both, number one, for reasons of time, and number two, because Scott Hahn has already done a better job of that in what's called The Fourth Cup.
  zh: 但我没有这样做，第一是因为时间有限，第二是因为司各特·韩已经在《第四杯》这本书（或讲座）里讲得更好了。
- start: 933.575
  end: 942.735
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So if you find his talk or I believe it's a book by that same title, it explains that in the liturgical context of the Passover, there were four cups.
  zh: 如果你找到他的讲座，或者我记得有一本同名的书，他解释了逾越节礼仪中有四杯酒。
- start: 942.735
  end: 947.935
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: If you read the liturgy of the Last Supper in the New Testament, there's only three.
  zh: 如果你读新约中最后晚餐的礼仪，只出现了三杯。
- start: 947.935
  end: 959.455
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so Christ bringing this ritual act to completion, bringing this liturgical action of the Passover to its fulfillment says, "I thirst." Obviously, he'd been thirsting before that.
  zh: 所以基督在完成这个仪式、使逾越节礼仪圆满时说：「我渴了。」很明显，他在那之前就已经渴了。
- start: 959.455
  end: 962.335
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So the thirst of Christ is to fulfill the scripture.
  zh: 所以基督说「我渴了」是为了应验经上的话。
- start: 962.335
  end: 965.935
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And it is a culmination of these things.
  zh: 这是所有这些事情的高潮。
- start: 965.935
  end: 968.975
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It i- you- you have to understand tetelestai in light of that.
  zh: 你必须从这个角度来理解「tetelestai」。
- start: 968.975
  end: 976.975
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so unfortunately, evangelicals aren't reading John 19:30 in the context of John 19:28.
  zh: 很遗憾，福音派信徒在读约翰福音19章30节时，没有结合28节的上下文。
- start: 976.975
  end: 982.255
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: They're reading it in light of alleged papyri that turn out not to say what they thought they did.
  zh: 他们反而根据那些其实并没有他们想象内容的纸草文献来解读。
- start: 982.255
  end: 984.275
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's bad biblical exegesis.
  zh: 这是一种糟糕的圣经释经方式。
- start: 984.275
  end: 994.015
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So the idea that Christ says, "It is finished," so therefore, the entire work of our redemption is finished or the entire work of justification is finished, that's bad exegesis.
  zh: 所以认为基督说「成了」就意味着我们救赎的全部工作、称义的全部工作都已经完成，这其实是错误的释经。
- start: 994.015
  end: 1003.355
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: What's, what's more, Saint Paul explicitly says, "Christ rose again for our justification." So that read of scripture is actually contradicted by the New Testament.
  zh: 更重要的是，圣保罗明确说过：「耶稣复活是为使我们称义。」所以这种解读其实和新约本身是矛盾的。
- start: 1003.355
  end: 1004.015
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: No.
  zh: 不是这样的。
- start: 1004.015
  end: 1011.735
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: If you understand what's happening sacrificially, this is, by all means, a once-for-all portion of the sacrifice.
  zh: 如果你明白祭献的意义，这当然是一次性的祭献的一部分。
- start: 1011.735
  end: 1015.395
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This is not the complete sacrifice that Jesus offers us.
  zh: 这并不是耶稣为我们所献祭的全部。
- start: 1015.395
  end: 1016.495
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This is part of it.
  zh: 这只是其中的一部分。
- start: 1016.495
  end: 1017.995
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And we'll get into that.
  zh: 我们接下来会详细讲到。
- start: 1017.995
  end: 1028.455
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But going back to Dr. Manning, he says this view that Jesus was proclaiming the fulfillment of scripture, the last view taken by everybody from Saint Leo the Great to Martin Luther.
  zh: 回到曼宁博士，他说，认为耶稣是在宣告经上的话应验，这种观点从大圣良到马丁·路德都持有。
- start: 1028.455
  end: 1031.795
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Jesus' work is completed, and scripture is fulfilled.
  zh: 耶稣的工作完成了，经上的话也应验了。
- start: 1031.795
  end: 1036.055
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Then he says, "The interpretation..." Oh, excuse me.
  zh: 然后他说：「这种解释……」哦，抱歉。
- start: 1036.055
  end: 1040.935
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Uh, "'Paid in full,' while an attractive and harmless suggestion," I'm not sure it is harmless.
  zh: 「『已还清』这个解释虽然听起来很吸引人，也许也无害」，但我不确定它真的无害。
- start: 1040.935
  end: 1059.155
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But he says, "While it's an attractive and harmless suggestion, it's based on a misreading of the evidence, doesn't fit the context well, and was never suggested before the 20th century." So there's this very brief window in time in the early 20th century where scholars think they've found these papyris that say tetelestai.
  zh: 但他指出：「虽然这个解释很吸引人、看似无害，但它是对证据的误读，不符合语境，而且在二十世纪之前从未有人提出过。」所以在二十世纪初，有一小段时间学者们以为找到了写有tetelestai的纸草文献。
- start: 1059.155
  end: 1065.855
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And this becomes a popular kind of legend among Protestant pastors, and it gets spread from pulpit to pulpit.
  zh: 这就成了新教牧师之间流传的一个「传说」，从讲台传到讲台。
- start: 1065.855
  end: 1072.435
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so even though scholars actually pretty quickly correct that error, it lives on as kind of popular lore.
  zh: 即使学者们很快纠正了这个错误，这种说法还是作为民间传说流传下来。
- start: 1072.435
  end: 1077.415
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So the people s- claiming this rarely, if ever, bother even trying to point to papyri.
  zh: 所以那些宣称这种说法的人，几乎从不去查证纸草文献。
- start: 1077.415
  end: 1082.955
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: They just say, "Oh, yeah, they're out there somewhere." If you look at them, you'll find out they don't actually say that.
  zh: 他们只是说：「哦，肯定有这样的文献。」但你真去查就会发现，根本没有。
- start: 1082.955
  end: 1088.375
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So okay, the paid in full meaning of it is finished is clearly bad.
  zh: 所以，「成了」等于「已还清」的解释显然是错误的。
- start: 1088.375
  end: 1090.095
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I mean, it's just bad exegesis.
  zh: 这就是糟糕的释经。
- start: 1090.095
  end: 1091.575
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Mo- may or may not be bad theology.
  zh: 至于是不是糟糕的神学，我们可以再讨论。
- start: 1091.575
  end: 1092.375
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We'll get into that.
  zh: 我们之后会谈到。
- start: 1092.375
  end: 1095.675
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But that still is going to leave these other questions.
  zh: 但这仍然留下了其他问题。
- start: 1095.675
  end: 1100.505
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Why isn't the cross a re-killing of Christ?...
  zh: 为什么十字架不是对基督的再次杀害……
- start: 1100.505
  end: 1103.305
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: as some have erroneously claimed Catholics believe.
  zh: 正如有些人错误地说公教徒相信的那样。
- start: 1103.305
  end: 1114.445
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And how do we make sense of the cross in the sense that Jesus' death is once for all, and yet Catholics claim to still be participating in it in some fascinating way?
  zh: 那我们又该如何理解，既然耶稣的死亡是一次性的，公教徒却声称以某种奇妙的方式仍然在参与其中？
- start: 1114.445
  end: 1116.645
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: There's a few things we've got to sort out here.
  zh: 这里有几个问题我们需要理清。
- start: 1116.645
  end: 1122.046
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We're going to look at the parts of a Jewish sacrifice, then we're going to look at a few particular Jewish sacrifices.
  zh: 我们会先看看犹太祭献的各个部分，然后再看几个具体的犹太祭献。
- start: 1122.046
  end: 1129.605
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: First of all, the Passover, because this is the number one motif through which the New Testament authors tell us to make sense of Christ's death.
  zh: 首先是逾越节，因为新约作者最常用逾越节来解释基督的死亡。
- start: 1129.605
  end: 1132.666
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Second, uh, we'll look at Yom Kippur.
  zh: 第二，我们会看赎罪日。
- start: 1132.666
  end: 1139.745
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And then third, we're going to look at this underappreciated part of Hebrews 9 that talks about the creation of a covenant.
  zh: 第三，我们会看希伯来书9章中一个常被忽略的部分，讲到立约。
- start: 1139.745
  end: 1144.246
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So with that, let's start with the parts of a Jewish sacrifice.
  zh: 所以我们先从犹太祭献的各个部分讲起。
- start: 1144.246
  end: 1150.385
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: As I said, a lot of us today when we hear the term sacrifice, just imagine that means ritual killing.
  zh: 正如我说过的，现在很多人一听到「祭献」，就只会想到仪式性的杀戮。
- start: 1150.385
  end: 1152.205
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But there's more to it.
  zh: 但其实远不止如此。
- start: 1152.205
  end: 1156.005
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So the mere fact that let's say you're a farmer and you kill a goat.
  zh: 比如说，你是个农夫，杀了一只山羊。
- start: 1156.005
  end: 1159.845
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You're a goat farmer for purposes of our analogy.
  zh: 我们假设你是养山羊的农夫。
- start: 1159.845
  end: 1161.706
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Is that automatically a sacrifice?
  zh: 那这就自动成了祭献吗？
- start: 1161.706
  end: 1162.425
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It's not.
  zh: 不是的。
- start: 1162.425
  end: 1173.585
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: There are a bunch of different sacrifices in the Old Testament, but broadly speaking, we can talk about a few different sort of steps or, or stages in a sacrificial action.
  zh: 旧约中有很多种不同的祭献，但大致来说，祭献可以分为几个不同的步骤或阶段。
- start: 1173.585
  end: 1177.965
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And these, significantly, these are not going to be four separate sacrifices.
  zh: 而且，这些步骤并不是四个不同的祭献。
- start: 1177.965
  end: 1181.005
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: These are going to be four parts of one sacrifice.
  zh: 而是一个祭献的四个部分。
- start: 1181.005
  end: 1186.725
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, I'm going to use the peace offering because I think you're going to see this more clearly with that.
  zh: 我会以平安祭为例，因为这样你们会更清楚地看到。
- start: 1186.725
  end: 1195.685
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Different sacrifices m- are going to vary somewhat, but this is just to give you the, the basic skeleton of what we mean biblically when we're talking about sacrifice.
  zh: 不同的祭献细节会有差异，但这只是为了让你们了解圣经里「祭献」的基本框架。
- start: 1195.685
  end: 1208.345
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So in Leviticus, uh, chapter 3, it says, "If a man's offering is a sacrifice," peace offering, "if he offers an animal from the herd, male or female, he shall offer it without blemish before the Lord." Okay, so there's actually going to be step one.
  zh: 在利未记第三章说：「人若以牛为平安祭献给耶和华，无论是公是母，必用没有残疾的献在耶和华面前。」这其实就是第一步。
- start: 1208.345
  end: 1210.365
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: There, you dedicate this animal.
  zh: 在这里，你要把这只牲畜奉献出来。
- start: 1210.365
  end: 1219.865
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Before it's even dead, you say, "This is the one I'm going to be offering." That you don't just wait till an animal's dead and be like, "Oh yeah, the one that just got hit by a truck, that's the one you get, God." Doesn't work like that.
  zh: 在它还没死之前，你就要说：「这就是我要献给神的。」你不能等动物死了才说：「哦，刚才被车撞死的那只就献给神吧。」不是这样的。
- start: 1219.865
  end: 1223.345
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You have to give it to God first before it's even killed.
  zh: 你必须在杀之前就先把它奉献给神。
- start: 1223.345
  end: 1231.865
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Then you lay your hand upon the head of the offering and you kill it at the door of the tent of meeting, and then Aaron's sons, the priests then throw the blood against the altar around it.
  zh: 然后你要按手在祭牲头上，在会幕门口把它宰了，亚伦的子孙祭司要把血洒在坛的周围。
- start: 1231.865
  end: 1237.985
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So you have then the ritual killing and then the application of the blood.
  zh: 所以接下来是仪式性的宰杀和洒血。
- start: 1237.985
  end: 1242.305
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So we now have three steps, but that's not actually it.
  zh: 现在我们已经有了三步，但还没完。
- start: 1242.305
  end: 1249.685
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In Leviticus 7, we've discovered that the flesh of the sacrifice, the peace offering, shall be eaten on the day of his offering.
  zh: 在利未记第七章，我们发现平安祭的肉要在献祭的当天吃掉。
- start: 1249.685
  end: 1252.285
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, this is particularly the peace offerings for thanksgiving.
  zh: 这尤其是感恩的平安祭。
- start: 1252.285
  end: 1256.725
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, remember, the word Eucharist comes from the word for thanksgiving.
  zh: 要记得，「Eucharist」这个词就是从「感恩」来的。
- start: 1256.725
  end: 1262.985
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So this gives us maybe a helpful way of understanding the Eucharistic sacrifice, as we're going to get into that.
  zh: 所以这也许能帮助我们理解圣餐祭献，接下来我们会详细讲到。
- start: 1262.985
  end: 1268.325
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But the peace offerings for thanksgiving, you had to eat them on the day they were offered.
  zh: 但感恩的平安祭，必须在献祭当天吃掉。
- start: 1268.325
  end: 1270.785
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You couldn't leave any of it until morning.
  zh: 不能留到第二天早晨。
- start: 1270.785
  end: 1279.665
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In fact, it says, "If any of the flesh of the sacrifice of this peace offering is eaten on the third day, he who offers it shall not be accepted, neither shall it be credited to him.
  zh: 事实上，圣经说：「若有平安祭的肉到第三天还被吃，那献祭的人必不蒙悦纳，也不得算为祭。」
- start: 1279.665
  end: 1288.805
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It shall be an abomination, and he who eats of it shall bear his iniquity." So notice, the eating wasn't just a thing you did after the sacrifice.
  zh: 「这必为可憎的事，吃的人必担当罪孽。」所以你要注意，吃祭肉并不是献祭之后随便做的事。
- start: 1288.805
  end: 1293.945
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The eating was a necessary step for the sacrifice to be accepted.
  zh: 吃祭肉是祭献被悦纳的必要步骤。
- start: 1293.945
  end: 1301.225
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's going to be obviously pretty important, because you'll notice that means there's at least four distinct stages to the sacrifice.
  zh: 这一点非常重要，因为你会发现，祭献至少有四个不同的阶段。
- start: 1301.225
  end: 1309.545
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You have the offering or sometimes called the consecration of the animal, you then have the ritual killing of the animal, you then have the application or the presentation of the blood of the animal.
  zh: 首先是奉献（或称为祝圣）祭牲，然后是仪式性的宰杀，接着是洒血或献血。
- start: 1309.545
  end: 1311.745
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And it's going to look different in different sacrifices.
  zh: 不同的祭献，这些步骤会有所不同。
- start: 1311.745
  end: 1318.385
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: As we're going to see with the Passover, the, uh, presentation of blood isn't going to be around the altar, it's going to be on the doorposts.
  zh: 比如在逾越节，献血不是洒在祭坛周围，而是涂在门框上。
- start: 1318.385
  end: 1320.445
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And then you have the eating of the animal.
  zh: 最后是吃祭牲的肉。
- start: 1320.445
  end: 1324.545
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Those four stages aren't four different sacrifices.
  zh: 这四个阶段不是四个不同的祭献。
- start: 1324.545
  end: 1327.905
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Those are four parts of one sacrifice.
  zh: 而是一个祭献的四个部分。
- start: 1327.905
  end: 1338.085
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And if you want to understand Jesus' sacrifice, you need to break out of the idea that sacrifice is just the death and be looking for, where does Christ offer himself?
  zh: 如果你想理解耶稣的祭献，你就不能只把祭献等同于死亡，而要问：基督在哪里奉献了自己？
- start: 1338.085
  end: 1340.705
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Where does Christ lay down his life to die?
  zh: 基督在哪里舍命？
- start: 1340.705
  end: 1343.825
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Where is Christ's blood applied and presented?
  zh: 基督的宝血在哪里被献上和应用？
- start: 1343.825
  end: 1346.665
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: There's going to be actually two places, one on earth and one in heaven.
  zh: 实际上有两个地方：一个在地上，一个在天上。
- start: 1346.665
  end: 1349.885
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And then where do we eat the flesh of Christ?
  zh: 那我们又在哪里吃基督的肉？
- start: 1349.885
  end: 1356.305
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Once you understand sacrifice having those dimensions, the Eucharist fits in perfectly.
  zh: 一旦你明白祭献有这些层面，圣餐就完全契合其中。
- start: 1356.305
  end: 1361.225
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And what's more, you see the connection between the Last Supper and Good Friday, because here's the thing.
  zh: 更重要的是，你会看到最后晚餐和受难日之间的联系，因为关键就在这里。
- start: 1361.225
  end: 1371.925
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It's not just that evangelical Protestants broadly can't understand how the Catholic sacrifice of the Mass fits in with Good Friday, it's that they can't understand how Holy Thursday is related to Good Friday.
  zh: 不仅仅是福音派新教徒无法理解公教弥撒的祭献和受难日的关系，他们甚至无法理解圣周四和受难日的关系。
- start: 1371.925
  end: 1379.525
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so they think of Good Friday as a standalone sacrifice with just the killing, but there's no offertory aspect.
  zh: 所以他们把受难日看作一个单独的祭献，只是死亡，没有奉献的成分。
- start: 1379.525
  end: 1380.945
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's not even a sacrifice.
  zh: 那其实根本算不上祭献。
- start: 1380.945
  end: 1387.085
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The mere fact somebody or something dies doesn't automatically make it a sacrificial death.
  zh: 仅仅有人或动物死亡，并不自动成为祭献之死。
- start: 1387.085
  end: 1394.905
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: There has to be a laying down of the life of the animal, or in the case of Christ, his laying down of hi- of his own life.
  zh: 必须有主动奉献生命的动作，对于基督来说，就是他主动舍命。
- start: 1394.905
  end: 1396.205
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And where do we see him do that?
  zh: 那我们在哪里看到他这样做？
- start: 1396.205
  end: 1398.325
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: As we're going to see at the Last Supper.
  zh: 正如我们将在最后晚餐中看到的。
- start: 1398.325
  end: 1405.445
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So with that, let's turn from peace offerings and look particularly at the Passover sacrifice.
  zh: 说到这里，我们从平安祭转向逾越节的祭献。
- start: 1405.445
  end: 1407.605
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And why the Passover sacrifice?
  zh: 为什么要讲逾越节的祭献？
- start: 1407.605
  end: 1416.405
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: As I already alluded to, this is, if you want to understand the sacrifice of Christ, from start to finish throughout the New Testament, you are pointed towards the Passover.
  zh: 正如我之前提到的，如果你想理解基督的祭献，从新约头到尾都指向逾越节。
- start: 1416.405
  end: 1423.605
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: For instance, John the Baptist in John 1 says, "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world." That is a Passover reference, right?
  zh: 比如，施洗约翰在约1章说：「看哪，神的羔羊，除去世人罪孽的！」这就是逾越节的典故，对吧？
- start: 1423.605
  end: 1429.985
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Likewise, at the Last Supper, the- right, right before it, I should say, Jesus says, "My time is at hand.
  zh: 同样，在最后晚餐前，耶稣说：「我的时候近了。」
- start: 1429.985
  end: 1432.785
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I will keep the Passover at your house with my disciples." Right?
  zh: 「我要和我的门徒在你家守逾越节。」对吧？
- start: 1432.785
  end: 1436.345
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Like, that's what he tells the disciples to go and tell the owner of the upper room.
  zh: 他就是这样吩咐门徒去告诉楼房的主人。
- start: 1436.345
  end: 1440.345
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So he's presenting the Last Supper as his Passover.
  zh: 所以他把最后晚餐呈现为自己的逾越节。
- start: 1440.345
  end: 1446.785
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And that's going to be very important when we realize what's strange about the Passover of Christ.
  zh: 当我们意识到基督的逾越节有什么特别之处时，这一点就非常重要。
- start: 1446.785
  end: 1450.765
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So let's get into th- well, the way the Passover sacrifice looked.
  zh: 那我们来看看逾越节祭献的过程。
- start: 1450.765
  end: 1458.545
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Very similar to the stages that I described, but this is actually clearer in certain ways, because there's two separate days involved.
  zh: 和我前面讲的步骤很像，但这里有两个不同的日子，所以更清楚。
- start: 1458.545
  end: 1461.245
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: First, you have the 14th day of the month of Nisan.
  zh: 首先是尼散月十四日。
- start: 1461.245
  end: 1463.805
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This is not like Nissan like the car.
  zh: 这里的尼散不是汽车品牌Nissan。
- start: 1463.805
  end: 1464.725
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This is the Jewish month.
  zh: 这是犹太历的一个月份。
- start: 1464.725
  end: 1474.476
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This isn't like a Honda Toyotathon, anything like that.So in Exodus 12, it says in verse six that "your lamb shall be without blemish, a male a year old.
  zh: 这不是本田、丰田什么的。出埃及记12章6节说：「要取一只无残疾、一岁的公羊羔。」
- start: 1474.476
  end: 1489.195
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You shall take it from the sheep or from the goats and you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the month when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill their lambs in the evening." Now significantly, this happened actually before sundown because sundown marks a new day on the Jewish calendar.
  zh: 「可以从绵羊或山羊中取来，要留到本月十四日，在黄昏的时候，以色列全会众要把羊羔宰了。」注意，这实际上是在日落前，因为犹太历以日落为新的一天。
- start: 1489.195
  end: 1498.615
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"Then they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and the lintel of the houses in which they eat them." So you''ll notice, there''s a couple things you''re doing on the fourteenth day of the month.'
  zh: 「要取点血，涂在吃羊羔的房屋左右门框上和门楣上。」所以你会发现，十四日要做几件事。
- start: 1498.615
  end: 1504.256
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You are having the ritual killing and the application of the blood of the lamb by smearing the blood on the doorposts.
  zh: 你要宰杀羊羔，并把血涂在门框上。
- start: 1504.256
  end: 1514.176
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So you have chosen a spotless lamb, you then killed that lamb, you then had the, well, the priest has killed the lamb, and then you've had the blood smeared on the doorpost.
  zh: 你先选了一只无残疾的羊羔，然后宰杀它，再把血涂在门框上。
- start: 1514.176
  end: 1516.135
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's all on the fourteenth day of the month.
  zh: 这些都发生在十四日。
- start: 1516.135
  end: 1517.936
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: What happens on the fifteenth day of the month?
  zh: 那十五日要做什么？
- start: 1517.936
  end: 1519.276
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The next verse tells us.
  zh: 下一节经文告诉我们。
- start: 1519.276
  end: 1522.275
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"They shall eat the flesh that night, roast it.'
  zh: 「当夜要吃羊羔的肉，用火烤了。」
- start: 1522.275
  end: 1532.035
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: With unleavened bread and bitter herbs, they shall eat it." Now again, this is a new day on the calendar, on a Jewish calendar, it's kind of a weird place to start your day but that's where it is.
  zh: 「要与无酵饼和苦菜同吃。」这在犹太历上已经是新的一天，虽然起始点很特别，但就是如此。
- start: 1532.035
  end: 1539.075
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so Leviticus 23 says very specifically that the fifteenth day of the month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord.
  zh: 利未记23章明确说，十五日是向耶和华守无酵节的日子。
- start: 1539.075
  end: 1542.275
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And this is the beginning, actually, of a seven-day-long festival.
  zh: 这实际上是一个为期七天的节期的开始。
- start: 1542.275
  end: 1556.795
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, over time, the Passover sacrifice on the fourteenth day and the eating of the Passover meal, the first day of unleavened bread, the language is kind of blended because these are two aspects of the same sacrifice.
  zh: 随着时间推移，十四日的逾越节祭献和十五日吃逾越节筵席（无酵节第一天）这两者的语言逐渐融合，因为它们其实是同一个祭献的两个方面。
- start: 1556.795
  end: 1565.015
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The- these aren't two separate sacrifices, even though they're happening on two different calendar days, this is one and the same sacrifice.
  zh: 虽然发生在两个不同的日子，但这不是两个不同的祭献，而是同一个祭献。
- start: 1565.015
  end: 1569.195
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You kill the lamb and then to finish the sacrifice, you eat the lamb.
  zh: 你宰杀羊羔，然后要吃羊羔，这样祭献才算完成。
- start: 1569.195
  end: 1578.735
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In fact, if you read the Jewish Encyclopedia on Passover sacrifice, it says, "The Paschal sacrifice belonged to, to the Shelomim." I think it's actually wrong about that.
  zh: 事实上，如果你查《犹太百科全书》关于逾越节祭献的条目，它说：「逾越节祭献属于平安祭。」我觉得这其实不太准确。
- start: 1578.735
  end: 1585.975
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It's similar to the Shelomim sacrifices, it's not particularly important, but it, it puts it in the category of Shelomim.
  zh: 它和平安祭很相似，虽然不是完全一样，但被归类为平安祭。
- start: 1585.975
  end: 1606.275
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But in any case, it says, "thus forming one of the sacrifices in which the meal is the principal part and indicates the community between God and man." So, literally, I was talking to, uh, Steve Christy, who's like a big James White devotee, and he said, "Oh, the Passover meal wasn't a sacrifice." It's like, no, it clearly was.
  zh: 但无论如何，它说：「这是以吃为主要部分的祭献之一，象征神与人之间的团契。」我曾和史蒂夫·克里斯蒂（一位詹姆斯·怀特的忠实粉丝）聊过，他说：「逾越节筵席不是祭献。」其实很明显，它就是祭献。
- start: 1606.275
  end: 1611.195
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Eating the Passover lamb was the chief part of this- uh, the Passover sacrifice.
  zh: 吃逾越节羊羔就是逾越节祭献的主要部分。
- start: 1611.195
  end: 1614.655
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The Jewish Encyclopedia is right about this, modern Protestants are wrong about that.
  zh: 在这一点上，《犹太百科全书》是对的，现代新教徒是错的。
- start: 1614.655
  end: 1629.255
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, I think in fairness, most modern Protestants maybe wouldn't go that far to literally deny the Passover meal was a sacrifice, but if, if your understanding of sacrifice is just killing, then yeah, it doesn't make sense why the Passover meal would be a sacrifice.
  zh: 公平地说，大多数现代新教徒可能不会直接否认逾越节筵席是祭献，但如果你只把祭献理解为杀戮，那确实无法理解为什么逾越节筵席是祭献。
- start: 1629.255
  end: 1642.055
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And yet, if you read Jewish sources, you'll find that not only was this part of the sacrifice, this was the main part of the sacrifice because this was what established community or communion between God and man.
  zh: 但如果你读犹太文献，你会发现这不仅是祭献的一部分，甚至是最主要的部分，因为正是通过这个环节建立了神与人的团契。
- start: 1642.055
  end: 1651.955
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, once you understand the Old Testament saying that, then suddenly you can hopefully see how the Last Supper is so critical to Christianity.
  zh: 一旦你明白旧约是这样说的，你就能明白最后晚餐对基督信仰有多么重要。
- start: 1651.955
  end: 1657.555
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: How this is how communion is established in eating the flesh of the sacrificial offering.
  zh: 正是在吃祭牲之肉时，人与神建立了团契。
- start: 1657.555
  end: 1666.135
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's what we believe is happening at communion at every mass throughout the world and significantly, this is part of the sacrifice.
  zh: 这正是我们相信在全世界每一台弥撒中圣餐时发生的事，而且这就是祭献的一部分。
- start: 1666.135
  end: 1667.715
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, think about it this way.
  zh: 你可以这样想。
- start: 1667.715
  end: 1676.315
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: On the fifteenth day of the month, if you gathered around with your family and you ate the Passover sacrifice, are you re-killing the lamb?
  zh: 在十五日，你和家人围坐一起吃逾越节祭牲，你是在重新杀羊羔吗？
- start: 1676.315
  end: 1676.895
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: No.
  zh: 不是。
- start: 1676.895
  end: 1680.095
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But are you participating in the Passover sacrifice?
  zh: 但你是在参与逾越节祭献吗？
- start: 1680.095
  end: 1680.615
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You are.
  zh: 你是在参与。
- start: 1680.615
  end: 1691.395
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '''Cause look, remember, a v- originally, it was every head of household, like the dad would kill the lamb, but pretty soon this becomes the responsibility of the Jewish priests.'
  zh: 你要记得，最初是每个家庭的家长亲自宰杀羊羔，但很快这就变成了犹太祭司的责任。
- start: 1691.395
  end: 1696.975
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so then the, the question becomes, well, how does my family participate in this sacrifice?
  zh: 那么问题来了，我的家人要如何参与这场祭献呢？
- start: 1696.975
  end: 1700.455
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: If I'm living in the Old Testament, how does my family participate in this sacrifice?
  zh: 如果我生活在旧约时代，我的家人要怎样参与这场祭献？
- start: 1700.455
  end: 1708.115
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, for one, it's my lamb that the priest is killing, but I'm not doing the actual killing, so if the sacrifice is just the killing, I'm not part of it.
  zh: 首先，虽然祭司杀的是我的羊羔，但我本人并没有亲自宰杀，所以如果祭献只是杀戮，那我其实并没有参与。
- start: 1708.115
  end: 1712.315
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But two, and this is more important, the eating of the lamb.
  zh: 但更重要的是，吃羊羔的肉。
- start: 1712.315
  end: 1718.735
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Because you didn't actually have to have it be your own lamb, you could j- if you couldn't afford a lamb, you could share with another family.
  zh: 因为你其实不一定要有自己的羊羔，如果买不起羊羔，可以和别的家庭合用一只。
- start: 1718.735
  end: 1734.555
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so it's not necessary for you to even own the lamb, but it is necessary for you to eat the lamb and the Jewish Encyclopedia points this out that you had to eat upon pain of excommunication, but in order to eat, you had to be ritually clean, you had to be circumcised.
  zh: 所以你甚至不需要拥有羊羔，但你必须吃羊羔。《犹太百科全书》指出，不吃就会被逐出会众，而且要吃羊羔，必须是洁净的、受过割礼的。
- start: 1734.555
  end: 1737.015
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Does this prefigure the Eucharist?
  zh: 这是不是预表了圣餐？
- start: 1737.015
  end: 1737.935
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You bet it does.
  zh: 当然是的。
- start: 1737.935
  end: 1748.555
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In First Corinthians 11, Saint Paul talks about how you can't receive the Eucharist unworthily, and yet it is still very clear from text like John 6 that we must eat the flesh.
  zh: 在哥林多前书11章，圣保罗说不能不配地领受圣餐，但在约翰福音6章等经文中也很清楚地说，我们必须吃这肉。
- start: 1748.555
  end: 1753.215
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I mean, we're told that, that if we don't eat the flesh, we don't have life within us.
  zh: 我们被告知，如果不吃这肉，就没有生命在我们里面。
- start: 1753.215
  end: 1765.115
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This idea that upon pain of excommunication, upon pain of the sacrifice being accepted we have to participate is not just a deeply Christian idea, it is even before that a deeply Jewish idea.
  zh: 这种「不参与就要被逐出会众、祭献也不会被悦纳」的观念，不只是深刻的基督信仰观念，甚至在此之前就是深刻的犹太观念。
- start: 1765.115
  end: 1775.895
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, significantly, scripture itself speaks of both stages of this, the killing of the lamb and the eating of the lamb as one sacrifice.
  zh: 值得注意的是，圣经本身把宰杀羊羔和吃羊羔这两个阶段都视为同一个祭献。
- start: 1775.895
  end: 1783.535
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So for instance, you see in Deuteronomy 16, uh, the reference both to the killing and the eating of the Passover sacrifice.
  zh: 比如在申命记16章，既提到宰杀逾越节祭牲，也提到吃逾越节祭牲。
- start: 1783.535
  end: 1797.895
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, likewise in Exodus 12, y- you're told and when your children say to you w- as you're eating, "What do you mean by this service?" You shall say, "It is the sacrifice of the Lord's Passover." Right?
  zh: 同样，在出埃及记12章，当你们吃逾越节筵席时，孩子问你们：「你们行这礼是什么意思？」你们要说：「这是耶和华逾越节的祭。」对吧？
- start: 1797.895
  end: 1806.115
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Like When you are gathered around the table and you're eating the Passover, you announce that you're participating in the sacrifice of the Lord's Passover.
  zh: 也就是说，当你们围坐吃逾越节筵席时，你们是在宣告自己参与了耶和华逾越节的祭献。
- start: 1806.115
  end: 1815.295
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That is about as clear as it could be, but just in case, Exodus 34 also tells us that neither shall the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover be left until morning.
  zh: 这已经非常清楚了，但以防万一，出埃及记34章还说，逾越节的祭不可留到早晨。
- start: 1815.295
  end: 1824.275
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So in the Old Testament context, the Passover liturgy includes m- uh, the killing of the lamb and the eating of the lamb.
  zh: 所以在旧约背景下，逾越节礼仪包括宰杀羊羔和吃羊羔。
- start: 1824.275
  end: 1826.095
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It also includes the, the smearing of the blood.
  zh: 还包括涂抹羊血。
- start: 1826.095
  end: 1827.135
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We've already talked about that.
  zh: 我们前面已经讲过了。
- start: 1827.135
  end: 1834.709
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So what is this going to prefigure?Well, the killing of the lamb, how does that prefigure Christ as Lamb of God?
  zh: 那这些预表了什么？宰杀羊羔如何预表神的羔羊基督？
- start: 1834.709
  end: 1835.829
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's a no-brainer, right?
  zh: 这很明显，对吧？
- start: 1835.829
  end: 1851.87
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Preparation day, the 14th day of the month, John makes this very clear that Good Friday is preparation, that he calls Good Friday "Preparation of the Passover." Now he might mean that literally, or he might mean that just that this is the fulfillment, like this is Christ's preparation day.
  zh: 预备日，也就是十四日，约翰很清楚地指出受难日就是预备日，他称受难日为「逾越节的预备日」。他可能是字面意思，也可能是指这是应验，是基督的预备日。
- start: 1851.87
  end: 1858.549
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, likewise, what is the fulfillment of the first day of Unleavened Bread, the eating of the Passover meal?
  zh: 同样，无酵节第一天、吃逾越节筵席的应验是什么？
- start: 1858.549
  end: 1862.849
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, Mark 14 describes The Last Supper as the first day of Unleavened Bread.
  zh: 马可福音14章把最后晚餐描述为无酵节的第一天。
- start: 1862.849
  end: 1867.069
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And then he says, "When they sacrificed the Passover lamb." That's actually pretty significant, right?
  zh: 然后他说：「他们宰杀逾越节羊羔的时候。」这其实很重要，对吧？
- start: 1867.069
  end: 1871.749
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '''Cause they''re eating the lamb, and he''s still talking about this in the context of a sacrificial offering.'
  zh: 因为他们正在吃羊羔，而经文仍然把这看作祭献的情境。
- start: 1871.749
  end: 1884.069
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And then, in Luke 22, as I said before, Jesus says, "I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you." So, here's where we get something really significant.
  zh: 在路加福音22章，正如我之前说的，耶稣说：「我很愿意在受害以先和你们吃这逾越节的筵席。」这里有个非常重要的地方。
- start: 1884.069
  end: 1890.649
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Remember, the thing you had to do in the Passover upon pain of excommunication was eat the lamb.
  zh: 记住，逾越节时必须做的事就是吃羊羔，不然就要被逐出会众。
- start: 1890.649
  end: 1899.489
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And yet when you read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John's account of The Last Supper, not one of them ever mentions them eating lamb.
  zh: 但你读马太、马可、路加、约翰关于最后晚餐的记载，没有一卷提到他们吃羊羔。
- start: 1899.489
  end: 1902.309
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That is a shocking omission.
  zh: 这是一个令人震惊的遗漏。
- start: 1902.309
  end: 1906.429
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Unless they're eating the flesh of Christ, the Lamb of God.
  zh: 除非他们吃的是基督——神的羔羊的肉。
- start: 1906.429
  end: 1910.929
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So, where do we see the fulfillment of the killing of the Passover lamb?
  zh: 那么，逾越节宰杀羊羔的应验在哪里？
- start: 1910.929
  end: 1911.429
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Good Friday.
  zh: 在受难日。
- start: 1911.429
  end: 1913.91
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Where do we see the fulfillment of the eating of the Passover lamb?
  zh: 那吃逾越节羊羔的应验在哪里？
- start: 1913.91
  end: 1915.009
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Holy Thursday.
  zh: 在圣周四。
- start: 1915.009
  end: 1916.99
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It's right there.
  zh: 答案就在这里。
- start: 1916.99
  end: 1919.449
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But not just Holy Thursday.
  zh: 但不仅仅是圣周四。
- start: 1919.449
  end: 1922.389
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Also every mass after that.
  zh: 也是此后每一台弥撒。
- start: 1922.389
  end: 1929.209
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now I'd heard this claim for a long time, that I wasn't sure if it was true, so I'd hesitated making it till I actually found it in Jewish sources.
  zh: 我很早就听说过这个说法，但一直不确定是否属实，直到我真的在犹太文献中找到了。
- start: 1929.209
  end: 1935.83
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And it's this claim that when you ate the Passover, it wasn't just a recollection of a past event.
  zh: 那就是：吃逾越节筵席不仅仅是回忆过去的事件。
- start: 1935.83
  end: 1945.029
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That somehow, the Jewish understanding is that the Passover became present, that there was a present, a presence, excuse me, of this past event.
  zh: 在犹太人的理解中，逾越节以某种方式变得当下、临在，过去的事件在现在重现。
- start: 1945.029
  end: 1961.549
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And this becomes really important because at Jesus' Passover, at The Last Supper, he s- says, "This is my body which is given for you." And then he says, "Do this in remembrance of me." And anamnesin, from the word anamnesis, is the word used for remembrancing.
  zh: 这点非常重要，因为在耶稣的逾越节、最后晚餐上，他说：「这是为你们舍的我的身体。」又说：「你们要如此行，为的是记念我。」这里的「记念」用的是anamnesis这个词。
- start: 1961.549
  end: 1973.289
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now many Protestants hear this and they, "Oh, okay, I know what a remembrance is, just like recalling a past event that isn't made present." That's not a good understanding in the Jewish context.
  zh: 许多新教徒听到这里会说：「哦，记念就是回忆过去的事，不是现在的事。」但在犹太语境下，这种理解并不准确。
- start: 1973.289
  end: 1978.189
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: For one, anamnesis has a particularly sacrificial kind of overtone to it.
  zh: 首先，anamnesis 这个词本身就带有祭献的意味。
- start: 1978.189
  end: 1993.249
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The only other time we see anamnesis described, or excuse me, that, the word anamnesis used in the New Testament, when it's not talking about the Eucharist, it's talking about the sacrificial, uh, sin offerings that would bring a, an anamnesis, a remembrance of sin.
  zh: 在新约中，除了圣餐以外，唯一一次用到anamnesis，是指祭献中的赎罪祭带来「罪的记念」。
- start: 1993.249
  end: 1994.969
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That wasn't just like, "Oh, yeah.
  zh: 那并不是简单地说：「哦，对。」
- start: 1994.969
  end: 1996.249
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I did that." No.
  zh: 「我做过那件事。」不是这样的。
- start: 1996.249
  end: 2001.369
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The sin is being made present in some way in the offering for the sin.
  zh: 而是罪以某种方式在祭献中被呈现出来。
- start: 2001.369
  end: 2006.209
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: There's much deeper theology that, that we kind of unpack there.
  zh: 这里面有更深的神学含义，我们可以慢慢展开。
- start: 2006.209
  end: 2012.389
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But the point there is anamnesis doesn't just mean like, "Oh, yeah, I remember, like, I went to school with that guy." It's not like that.
  zh: 但关键是，anamnesis 并不是「哦，我记得我和那个人一起上过学」这种回忆。不是这样的。
- start: 2012.389
  end: 2021.749
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And you might say, "Well, how do we know that?" Well, we know that partly from scripture itself, particularly in the context of the Passover.
  zh: 你可能会问：「我们怎么知道的？」部分原因是圣经本身，尤其是在逾越节的语境下。
- start: 2021.749
  end: 2035.349
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Because, again, when you're having the Passover meal, "You shall tell your son on that day, 'It is because what the Lord did for me when I came out of Egypt.'" That's right there in Exodus 13:8.
  zh: 因为在吃逾越节筵席时，「当那日要告诉你的儿子说：『这是耶和华在我出埃及时为我所行的事。』」（出13:8）
- start: 2035.349
  end: 2036.749
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, notice that.
  zh: 请注意这一点。
- start: 2036.749
  end: 2045.009
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You don't say, "This is what happened for my forefathers." You, a Jew in any century, were to say this is what had happened to you.
  zh: 你不是说「这是为我的祖先所做的事」，而是无论哪个世代的犹太人都要说「这是为我所做的事」。
- start: 2045.009
  end: 2048.569
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You were to claim that the Passover applied to you personally.
  zh: 你要宣称逾越节与你个人有关。
- start: 2048.569
  end: 2052.009
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's not just some weird quirk in the language of Exodus 13.
  zh: 这不仅仅是出埃及记13章的语言特色。
- start: 2052.009
  end: 2054.389
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The rabbis seized upon this, and they commented.
  zh: 拉比们也特别强调了这一点，并加以评论。
- start: 2054.389
  end: 2055.369
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You find this in the Talmud.
  zh: 你可以在塔木德中看到。
- start: 2055.369
  end: 2064.809
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"In each and every generation, a person must view himself as though he personally left Egypt." And then it quotes Exodus 13.'
  zh: 「每一代人都要把自己看作亲自出埃及的人。」然后引用出埃及记13章。
- start: 2064.809
  end: 2083.889
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"In each and every generation, each person must say, ''This which the Lord did for me.'' And not, ''This which the Lord did for my forefathers.''" So understand that the Jewish understanding of Passover involved the Passover somehow mystically being made present every time it was celebrated in every generation.'
  zh: 「每一代人都要说：『这是耶和华为我所做的。』而不是『为我的祖先所做的。』」所以你要明白，犹太人对逾越节的理解是，每一代人在庆祝时，逾越节都以某种奥秘的方式临在。
- start: 2083.889
  end: 2086.269
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It was as if it was fresh and new.
  zh: 就好像那件事是新发生的一样。
- start: 2086.269
  end: 2088.409
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You were participating in the one Passover.
  zh: 你是在参与那唯一的逾越节。
- start: 2088.409
  end: 2090.609
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You weren't re-Passovering.
  zh: 你不是在「重新」过逾越节。
- start: 2090.609
  end: 2096.309
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You were participating in, in the once-for-all Passover from Egypt in every generation.
  zh: 你是在每一代都参与那一次性的出埃及逾越节。
- start: 2096.309
  end: 2105.889
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This is a really important framework to make sense of how it is at every mass we can say we are participating in this once-for-all first century event.
  zh: 这就是我们在每一台弥撒中可以说自己参与了那一次性、发生在第一世纪的事件的重要框架。
- start: 2105.889
  end: 2114.829
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You just have to understand it biblically in a way that many people have lost sight of because we don't read the New Testament with an eye towards the Old Testament.
  zh: 你只需要用圣经的方式去理解，而不是像许多人那样忽略了旧约和新约的联系。
- start: 2114.829
  end: 2117.009
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Okay, so that's the Passover.
  zh: 好了，这就是逾越节。
- start: 2117.009
  end: 2124.489
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And obviously, there's much more that could be said, but I wanna make sure I talk about a few other, uh, sacrificial dimensions, so to speak.
  zh: 显然，这里还有很多可以说的内容，但我想确保还能谈谈其他几个祭献的层面。
- start: 2124.489
  end: 2127.789
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The second one is the sacrifice of Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement.
  zh: 第二个就是赎罪日的祭献。
- start: 2127.789
  end: 2141.169
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And this one is important because this is, when we're looking at the once-for-all language in Hebrews, part of what's going on here is that Hebrews is comparing and contrasting Christ's sacrifice with the Yom Kippur sacrifices.
  zh: 这一点很重要，因为当我们看希伯来书里「一次而永远」的说法时，希伯来书其实是在把基督的祭献和赎罪日的祭献进行比较和对比。
- start: 2141.169
  end: 2147.149
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So by way of background, Leviticus 16 describes what's gonna happen on the Day of Atonement.
  zh: 作为背景，利未记16章描述了赎罪日要发生的事。
- start: 2147.149
  end: 2153.109
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"Aaron shall present the bull as a sin offering for himself and shall make atonement for himself and for his house.'
  zh: 「亚伦要把赎罪祭的公牛奉上，为自己和本家赎罪。」
- start: 2153.109
  end: 2160.569
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He shall kill the bull as a sin offering for himself." Okay, so step one, the priest had to offer a sin offering for himself because he's a sinner.
  zh: 「要宰这公牛作赎罪祭，为自己赎罪。」所以第一步，祭司要为自己献赎罪祭，因为他也是罪人。
- start: 2160.569
  end: 2163.829
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Then, a few verses later, he shall...
  zh: 接着，几节经文后，他要……
- start: 2163.829
  end: 2165.729
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: There's actually a whole, like, purification ritual.
  zh: 其实还有一整套洁净的仪式。
- start: 2165.729
  end: 2170.089
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I'm skipping that 'cause as we're gonna see, it doesn't apply with Christ's sacrifice 'cause he's not a sinner.
  zh: 我这里略过这些，因为基督不是罪人，这些仪式和他的祭献无关。
- start: 2170.089
  end: 2171.569
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Verse 15.
  zh: 第15节。
- start: 2171.569
  end: 2177.229
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"Then he shall kill the goat of the sin offering, which is for the people." So that''s step two, the ritual killing of the goat.'
  zh: 「他要宰那作赎罪祭的公山羊，就是为百姓的。」这是第二步，仪式性地宰杀山羊。
- start: 2177.229
  end: 2186.049
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And then step three, he's gonna bring its blood within the veil of the temple, and, or within the veil of the, the tabernacle, excuse me.
  zh: 第三步，他要把羊的血带进会幕的幔子里。
- start: 2186.049
  end: 2192.249
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"And do with his blood as he did with the blood of the bull, sprinkling it upon the mercy seat and before the mercy seat.'
  zh: 「把血洒在施恩座的上面和施恩座的前面，像对公牛的血一样。」
- start: 2192.249
  end: 2199.819
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Thus he shall make atonement of the holy place." So there's a ritual purification in some way even of the temple itself....
  zh: 「他要为圣所赎罪。」所以连圣所本身也要通过仪式性的洁净来赎罪……
- start: 2199.819
  end: 2204.979
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: and this is because of the transgression of the people of Israel, and so there's this whole rite.
  zh: 这是因为以色列人的罪过，所以有这一整套仪式。
- start: 2204.979
  end: 2207.599
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So there's three steps that they...
  zh: 所以这里有三个步骤……
- start: 2207.599
  end: 2215.719
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Sin offering for the priest, got the sin offering for the people, and then you have the offertory aspect, that you're bringing the blood into the holy place.
  zh: 为祭司献赎罪祭，为百姓献赎罪祭，然后是奉献的环节——把血带进至圣所。
- start: 2215.719
  end: 2218.599
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Or if you wanna describe it, you can describe it as the application of the blood.
  zh: 你也可以说是血的应用。
- start: 2218.599
  end: 2230.279
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I used that kind of language earlier 'cause just as you, you were to smear the blood on the doorpost and, and other sacrifices, you pour the blood around the altar, here, you're bringing the blood into the holy place.
  zh: 我之前用过类似的说法，比如逾越节要把血涂在门框上，其他祭献要把血洒在坛上，这里则是把血带进至圣所。
- start: 2230.279
  end: 2233.939
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, how does this relate to the sacrifice of Christ?
  zh: 那么，这和基督的祭献有什么关系？
- start: 2233.939
  end: 2242.539
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In Hebrews 7, we're told that Jesus has no need, like the high priest, to offer sacrifice for his own sins, right?
  zh: 在希伯来书7章，我们被告知耶稣不像大祭司那样需要为自己的罪献祭，对吧？
- start: 2242.539
  end: 2249.139
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And obviously, so that dimension, step one of the three steps, J- Jesus doesn't have to do because he is sinless.
  zh: 很明显，三步中的第一步，耶稣不需要做，因为他没有罪。
- start: 2249.139
  end: 2258.02
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But then when you go to Hebrews 9, it talks specifically about the Yom Kippur sacrifice and talks about how within the temple, there were two sets.
  zh: 但到了希伯来书9章，特别讲到赎罪日的祭献，并提到圣殿里有两个区域。
- start: 2258.02
  end: 2265.739
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: There was, uh, uh, the tabernacle or tent, the outer one, which there was the lampstand and the table and the bread of the presence, it's called the holy place.
  zh: 有一个是会幕（帐幕）外院，里面有灯台、桌子和陈设饼，称为圣所。
- start: 2265.739
  end: 2267.259
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now it's very Eucharistic-sounding.
  zh: 这听起来很有圣餐的意味。
- start: 2267.259
  end: 2270.119
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I'm just gonna throw that out there without really delving into it.
  zh: 我先把这个观点抛出来，不细讲。
- start: 2270.119
  end: 2276.379
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But if you don't get the context between the bread of the presence and Christ being made present, I think you're missing something.
  zh: 但如果你没注意到陈设饼和基督临在之间的联系，你就错过了重要内容。
- start: 2276.379
  end: 2282.959
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But then the second temple, or excuse me, the second curtain within the temple, the second tabernacle i- goes into the Holy of Holies.
  zh: 然后是圣殿里的第二层幔子，进入至圣所。
- start: 2282.959
  end: 2290.679
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so the priest, having made the preparations, uh, normally would only go into the outer tent.
  zh: 祭司平时只进外院。
- start: 2290.679
  end: 2299.479
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Once a year, only the high priest would go in and he wouldn't go in without first offering blood for himself as well as for the errors of the people.
  zh: 每年只有一次，大祭司才会进入至圣所，而且必须先为自己和百姓的罪献血。
- start: 2299.479
  end: 2317.639
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now in contrast, Hebrews 9 says, "When Christ appears, He enters once for all into the holy place, not taking the blood of goats and calves, but His own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption." Now people will often point to Hebrews 9 as if this is contradicting the mass, and they'll say, "Aha!
  zh: 而希伯来书9章说：「基督显现的时候，带着自己的血，一次进入圣所，成就了永远的救赎。」很多人会用希伯来书9章来反对弥撒，说：「看！
- start: 2317.639
  end: 2324.059
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This happened on Good Friday." But in fact, what's being described here isn't what happened on Good Friday.
  zh: 这发生在受难日。」但实际上，这里描述的并不是受难日发生的事。
- start: 2324.059
  end: 2326.139
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That is not when Christ entered into the holy place.
  zh: 受难日并不是基督进入至圣所的时刻。
- start: 2326.139
  end: 2326.799
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: How do we know?
  zh: 我们怎么知道？
- start: 2326.799
  end: 2331.799
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Because Hebrews 9 goes on to say what's meant by Christ entering the holy place.
  zh: 因为希伯来书9章接着解释了基督进入至圣所是什么意思。
- start: 2331.799
  end: 2333.599
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Jump down to verse 24.
  zh: 请看第24节。
- start: 2333.599
  end: 2345.519
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"For Christ has entered not into a sanctuary made with hands, a copy of the true one, but into heaven itself now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf." So this is important.'
  zh: 「因为基督并不是进了人手所造的圣所（那不过是真圣所的影像），乃是进了天堂，如今为我们显在神面前。」这很重要。
- start: 2345.519
  end: 2365.519
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This, I debated James White on this and he tried to point to Hebrews 9 as saying, "Look, Christ once for all offering happened on Good Friday." And I pointed out, "No, very cl- the offertory aspect of the sacrifice happens when Christ goes into heaven itself, which doesn't happen on Good Friday." It happens 42 days later when Jesus ascends into heaven.
  zh: 我曾和詹姆斯·怀特辩论过这一点，他试图用希伯来书9章证明「基督一次性的奉献发生在受难日」。我指出：「不对，祭献的奉献环节是在基督升天进入天堂时发生的，不是在受难日。」那是耶稣升天，也就是42天后。
- start: 2365.519
  end: 2370.719
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now that's gonna be really important in understanding what's happening because w- we'll get into it.
  zh: 这一点对于理解整个过程非常重要，我们稍后会详细讲。
- start: 2370.719
  end: 2373.119
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I'm gonna continue reading from Hebrews 9 though.
  zh: 我继续读希伯来书9章。
- start: 2373.119
  end: 2383.179
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly as the high priest enters the high, the holy place yearly with blood not his own, for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world.'
  zh: 「他并不是多次将自己献上，像大祭司每年带着不是自己的血进入圣所；如果这样，他从创世以来就必须多次受苦了。」
- start: 2383.179
  end: 2397.359
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself." So, you have the killing, first for the priest himself for his sin offering.
  zh: 「但如今在这末世显现一次，把自己献为祭，好除掉罪。」所以，首先是为祭司自己献赎罪祭。
- start: 2397.359
  end: 2399.659
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: There's no need for that obviously 'cause Jesus was without sin.
  zh: 但耶稣没有罪，所以不需要这一步。
- start: 2399.659
  end: 2402.379
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Then you have killing the sin offering for the people.
  zh: 然后是为百姓献赎罪祭。
- start: 2402.379
  end: 2406.159
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Jesus f- fulfills that once for all on Good Friday.
  zh: 耶稣在受难日一次性成全了这一步。
- start: 2406.159
  end: 2410.239
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But then you have the offertory dimension, the bringing the blood into the holy place.
  zh: 但还有奉献的环节——把血带进至圣所。
- start: 2410.239
  end: 2412.799
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This is also once for all, but it's not on Good Friday.
  zh: 这也是一次性的，但不是发生在受难日。
- start: 2412.799
  end: 2422.439
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So anyone who tells you the once for all sacrifice is done on Good Friday doesn't understand what Hebrews 9 is saying and doesn't understand the way a sacrifice works.
  zh: 所以，如果有人说「一次性的祭献就是在受难日完成的」，那他既不明白希伯来书9章的意思，也不了解祭献的流程。
- start: 2422.439
  end: 2444.619
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now you might say, "Hold on, where do we see anything about eating the flesh or anything that sounds Eucharistic in this?" And I'll tell you, it's because we were looking at the beginning and the end of Hebrews 9 and jumping right over the middle, where there's this really important passage where the author of Hebrews explains that, when he talks about the blood of the covenant.
  zh: 你可能会问：「等等，这里有提到吃肉或者类似圣餐的内容吗？」其实我们刚才只看了希伯来书9章的开头和结尾，跳过了中间一段非常重要的经文，就是作者讲到「立约之血」时。
- start: 2444.619
  end: 2457.659
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He's gonna bring in a separate sacrificial dimension, in this case, the covenant creation, which has some sacrificial offerings and explaining that step that we might miss if we're just thinking about Yom Kippur.
  zh: 他在这里引入了另一个祭献层面，就是立约，这里面也有祭献的内容，如果只想着赎罪日，可能会忽略这一点。
- start: 2457.659
  end: 2460.499
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So he says it like this.
  zh: 他这样说：
- start: 2460.499
  end: 2472.399
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He says, "Even..." This is verse 18, "Even the first covenant was not ratified without blood." Okay, so notice that means the old covenant and the new covenant are ratified with blood.
  zh: 「所以，连前约也不是不用血立的。」（第18节）注意，这意味着无论旧约还是新约，都是用血立的。
- start: 2472.399
  end: 2477.459
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It's gonna be very important to say even the first one, it also means the second one.
  zh: 强调「连前约也是如此」，也就意味着新约也是如此。
- start: 2477.459
  end: 2496.379
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats with water and scarlet wool and hyssop and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people saying, ''This is the blood of the covenant, which God commanded you.''" Now if you''re a Christian, you hear those words, what does that remind you of?'
  zh: 「摩西将律法的一切诫命传给众百姓后，就拿牛羊的血和水，用朱红色线和牛膝草把书和众百姓都洒上，说：『这血就是神所吩咐你们立约的血。』」如果你是基督徒，听到这些话会想到什么？
- start: 2496.379
  end: 2500.339
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, I hope it reminds you of Jesus' words at the Last Supper.
  zh: 希望你会想到耶稣在最后晚餐上的话。
- start: 2500.339
  end: 2504.259
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And it's hard to miss that dimension.
  zh: 这一点很难忽略。
- start: 2504.259
  end: 2505.199
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We're gonna get into that.
  zh: 我们接下来会谈到。
- start: 2505.199
  end: 2514.039
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But the more direct referent here when he talks about when Moses is creating the first covenant or that God is creating the first covenant with Moses, this is in Exodus 24.
  zh: 但这里更直接的背景是摩西与神立第一个约，这在出埃及记24章。
- start: 2514.039
  end: 2519.659
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And in Exodus 24, Moses sprinkles blood on the altar.
  zh: 在出埃及记24章，摩西把血洒在坛上。
- start: 2519.659
  end: 2524.139
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He actually sprinkles the people with blood, which is pretty gross, but that's part of what happens.
  zh: 他还把血洒在百姓身上，虽然听起来有点让人不适，但这就是仪式的一部分。
- start: 2524.139
  end: 2536.979
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: They say, "All the Lord has spoken, we will do and we will be obedient." And then Moses says, "Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words." That's Exodus 24:8.
  zh: 百姓说：「耶和华所说的，我们都要遵行。」摩西说：「看哪，这是耶和华按这一切话与你们立约的血。」（出24:8）
- start: 2536.979
  end: 2539.359
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But then read the next two verses.
  zh: 但请继续读下面两节。
- start: 2539.359
  end: 2557.779
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: '"Then Moses and Aaron and the other, uh, Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, the other priests, and seven of the elders of Israel went up and they saw the God of Israel and there was under His feet, as it were, a pavement of sapphire stone like the very heaven for clearlet- for clearness and He did not lay His hand on the chief men of the people of Israel.'
  zh: 「摩西、亚伦、拿答、亚比户，并以色列长老中的七十人都上去，他们看见以色列的神，他脚下仿佛有平铺的蓝宝石，如同天色明净。他却不加害于以色列的尊者。」
- start: 2557.779
  end: 2575.51
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: They beheld God and ate and drank." So you have this is the blood of the covenant and then the beholding of God and then eating and drinking in divine presence.Now, maybe you're missing how incredibly Eucharistic that is in terms of what it's prefiguring.
  zh: 「他们观看神，也吃也喝。」所以，先是立约之血，然后是见神、在神面前吃喝。你也许还没意识到这有多么圣餐化、预表性有多强。
- start: 2575.51
  end: 2586.789
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But in case you are, I would actually turn you to a fan, turn your attention to a fantastic 2009, uh, article by Brant Petrie called Jesus, the Messianic Banquet, and the Kingdom of God.
  zh: 如果你还没意识到，我推荐你看看布兰特·皮特里2009年写的《耶稣、弥赛亚的筵席与神的国》这篇精彩的文章。
- start: 2586.789
  end: 2600.489
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Commenting on this passage, he says, "It's hard to overestimate the significance of this biblical background for understanding Jesus' words at the Last Supper regarding the relationship between his banquet and the Kingdom of God.
  zh: 他在评论这段经文时说：「要理解耶稣在最后晚餐上关于他筵席与神国关系的话，这段圣经背景的重要性怎么强调都不为过。」
- start: 2600.489
  end: 2609.049
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It strongly suggests that for Jesus, as for Exodus, although the sacrificial liturgy begins on Earth, it climaxes with the heavenly banquet.
  zh: 这强烈暗示，对耶稣来说，就像出埃及记一样，祭献的礼仪虽然始于地上，却以天上的筵席为高潮。
- start: 2609.049
  end: 2620.769
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: After going up the mountain, Moses and the elders enter into God's own transcendent realm where they not only see the pavement of sapphire in the Heavenly Court, they also behold God and eat and drink.
  zh: 摩西和长老们上山后，进入了神超越的领域，在那里他们不仅看见天庭里的蓝宝石铺地，还亲眼见到神，并且吃喝。
- start: 2620.769
  end: 2649.909
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Unless we start by assuming that Jesus is wrenching the expression from Exodus entirely out of context, then we have to conclude that He is deliberately drawing a parallel between the sacrificial liturgy of Moses and the Elders of Israel and His own actions at the Last Supper." In other words, when Jesus says, "This is m- the blood of my covenant," He expects Jewish readers and listeners, like say, the apostles, to have in mind, oh yeah, that's how the first covenant was created with Moses.
  zh: 除非我们一开始就假设耶稣完全脱离出埃及记的语境，否则我们必须得出结论：他是在有意把摩西和以色列长老的祭献礼仪与自己在最后晚餐上的行动做对比。换句话说，当耶稣说「这是我立约的血」时，他希望犹太听众，比如使徒们，立刻联想到：「哦，对，第一约就是这样和摩西立的。」
- start: 2649.909
  end: 2651.909
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And then what happened?
  zh: 然后发生了什么？
- start: 2651.909
  end: 2653.849
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: They beheld God and ate and drank.
  zh: 他们见到神，也吃也喝。
- start: 2653.849
  end: 2655.689
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Does that happen at the Last Supper?
  zh: 这在最后晚餐上发生了吗？
- start: 2655.689
  end: 2656.929
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It does.
  zh: 确实发生了。
- start: 2656.929
  end: 2689.429
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Petrie continues, "In the Liturgy of Sinai, although the blood of the covenant was certainly poured out on the earth, as well as on the altar and on the people, the covenant banquet was consummated in Heaven, where they beheld God and ate and drank." So, there's this very strong connection that Hebrews 9 is making between Exodus and the Last Supper that only makes sense if this is really the blood of Christ, and if they're actually beholding God, and eating and drinking in the Eucharistic liturgy.
  zh: 皮特里继续说：「在西奈的礼仪中，虽然立约之血确实洒在地上、坛上和百姓身上，但立约的筵席是在天上完成的，在那里他们见神，也吃也喝。」所以，希伯来书9章把出埃及记和最后晚餐紧密联系在一起，只有这真的是基督的宝血、他们真的在圣餐礼中见神、吃喝，这才说得通。
- start: 2689.429
  end: 2698.549
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I want to build upon what Brant Petrie is saying by turning to the work of Daniel Elazar, a Jewish political scientist who did a multi-volume work on covenant.
  zh: 我想在布兰特·皮特里的基础上，引用犹太政治学家丹尼尔·埃拉扎尔的研究，他写过多卷本关于盟约的著作。
- start: 2698.549
  end: 2701.629
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And Volume 1 was all about covenant, and polity, and Biblical Israel.
  zh: 第一卷专门讲盟约、政体和圣经以色列。
- start: 2701.629
  end: 2703.809
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He then turns to other forms of covenant.
  zh: 他后来又讲了其他形式的盟约。
- start: 2703.809
  end: 2705.549
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Th- those don't concern us.
  zh: 这些暂且不谈。
- start: 2705.549
  end: 2714.669
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But his work on what covenant meant to the Israelites is very important in helping us understand both the old covenant, but also the new covenant.
  zh: 但他关于盟约对以色列人意义的研究，对我们理解旧约和新约都非常重要。
- start: 2714.669
  end: 2718.629
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And Elazar realizes this in a way many Christians actually don't.
  zh: 埃拉扎尔意识到的东西，许多基督徒其实并没有意识到。
- start: 2718.629
  end: 2722.489
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so Elazar says, "Sealing a covenant involves some ritual act.
  zh: 埃拉扎尔说：「缔结盟约需要某种仪式行为。」
- start: 2722.489
  end: 2728.409
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In the Bible, sacrifice is the common ritual, but there also were the common meal and oath.
  zh: 在圣经里，祭献是最常见的仪式，但也有共餐和誓言。
- start: 2728.409
  end: 2744.189
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Thus, Moses, Aaron, Aaron's sons, and the 70 elders of Israel representing the entire people shared a common meal upon completion of the Sinai Covenant." So notice, his point is that it's not just they form the covenant and then they happen to have a meal.
  zh: 因此，摩西、亚伦、亚伦的儿子和以色列七十位长老代表全体百姓，在西奈之约完成后一起吃了一顿共餐。」请注意，他的意思不是说他们立完约后顺便吃了顿饭。
- start: 2744.189
  end: 2748.789
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That the meal is an integral part of the formation of the covenant.
  zh: 而是说共餐本身就是缔结盟约不可或缺的一部分。
- start: 2748.789
  end: 2753.389
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You need the actual blood, the, "This is the blood of the covenant," and you need the ritual meal.
  zh: 你需要真实的血——「这是立约的血」——也需要仪式性的共餐。
- start: 2753.389
  end: 2755.489
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Does this prefigure the Eucharist?
  zh: 这是不是预表了圣餐？
- start: 2755.489
  end: 2756.989
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Of course it does.
  zh: 当然是的。
- start: 2756.989
  end: 2764.889
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Elazar continues, "Other forms of sealing a covenant involve drinking together, gift giving, exchange of names, sacrifices, kissing, and handshaking.
  zh: 埃拉扎尔继续说：「其他缔结盟约的方式还包括一起喝酒、赠送礼物、交换名字、献祭、亲吻和握手。」
- start: 2764.889
  end: 2771.289
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Indeed, so much so that one way to forbid establishing a covenant relationship was to forbid eating together.
  zh: 实际上，禁止共餐就是禁止缔结盟约关系的一种方式。
- start: 2771.289
  end: 2787.149
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The idea of the common meal becomes an important ritual in both Judaism and Christianity, with the latter," Christianity, "emphasizing the taking of food as the means of organically linking with the Savior." In other words, Elazar understood something many Evangelicals don't.
  zh: 共餐的观念在犹太教和基督信仰中都成了重要的仪式，后者（基督信仰）更强调通过领受食物与救主有机地结合。换句话说，埃拉扎尔明白了许多福音派信徒不明白的事。
- start: 2787.149
  end: 2791.349
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Eating the Eucharist has to be understood as a covenantal act.
  zh: 领受圣餐必须被理解为缔结盟约的行为。
- start: 2791.349
  end: 2794.289
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This is how you form a covenant in the Jewish context.
  zh: 在犹太语境下，这就是缔结盟约的方式。
- start: 2794.289
  end: 2799.069
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You have the presentation of the blood and then you have the eating.
  zh: 先有血的奉献，然后有共餐。
- start: 2799.069
  end: 2801.229
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You behold God, you eat and drink.
  zh: 你见神，也吃也喝。
- start: 2801.229
  end: 2805.849
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's not just, like, a cool effect from this unrelated thing that happened before it.
  zh: 这不仅仅是前面发生的某件无关紧要的事带来的「酷炫效果」。
- start: 2805.849
  end: 2808.789
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This is all part of one ritual action.
  zh: 这一切都是同一个仪式行为的组成部分。
- start: 2808.789
  end: 2812.789
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Let's turn back directly to the text of Exodus 24.
  zh: 我们直接回到出埃及记24章的经文。
- start: 2812.789
  end: 2813.829
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: I want you to consider this.
  zh: 请你思考一下。
- start: 2813.829
  end: 2830.609
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In Exodus 24:8, Moses says, "Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words." The two questions that I asked James White in the debate and that I would ask anyone watching this now, number one, does Moses actually have blood or is it just a symbol?
  zh: 在出埃及记24章8节，摩西说：「看哪，这是耶和华按这一切话与你们立约的血。」我在和詹姆斯·怀特辩论时问了两个问题，现在也想问每一位听众：第一，摩西手里是真的有血，还是只是象征？
- start: 2830.609
  end: 2831.849
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, he actually has blood.
  zh: 他手里是真的有血。
- start: 2831.849
  end: 2835.549
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Two, is Moses actually establishing the covenant?
  zh: 第二，摩西真的在立约吗？
- start: 2835.549
  end: 2837.789
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: White corrected me and said God is establishing it.
  zh: 怀特纠正我说，是神在立约。
- start: 2837.789
  end: 2838.229
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Fine.
  zh: 好吧。
- start: 2838.229
  end: 2841.549
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But a covenant is actually being established with these words.
  zh: 但无论如何，盟约确实是在这些话中被建立起来的。
- start: 2841.549
  end: 2855.449
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Contrast that with Jesus' words at the Last Supper when He says, "Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." Is that the blood of Christ?
  zh: 对比一下耶稣在最后晚餐上的话：「你们都要喝，因为这是我立约的血，为多人流出来，使罪得赦。」那是基督的血吗？
- start: 2855.449
  end: 2857.689
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, as Catholics, we would say yes.
  zh: 作为公教徒，我们会说是的。
- start: 2857.689
  end: 2862.989
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Protestants, well, at least Evangelicals would say, "No, it's just a symbol." So it's actually worse.
  zh: 而新教徒，至少福音派会说：「不，那只是象征。」这样其实更糟。
- start: 2862.989
  end: 2864.049
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Moses had real blood.
  zh: 摩西手里有真的血。
- start: 2864.049
  end: 2866.269
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He was actually doing something in the formation of a covenant.
  zh: 他真的在缔结盟约。
- start: 2866.269
  end: 2872.529
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You can't form a covenant with, like, Kool-Aid, with grape juice, with, like, unconsecrated wine.
  zh: 你不能用果汁、葡萄汁、未祝圣的酒来缔结盟约。
- start: 2872.529
  end: 2878.169
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So Moses is actually involved in the formation of a covenant when he says this is the blood.
  zh: 所以摩西说「这是立约的血」时，他真的在缔结盟约。
- start: 2878.169
  end: 2887.069
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Jesus, when He says, "This is my blood of the covenant," allegedly is not involved in the formation of a covenant 'cause He doesn't have real blood.
  zh: 而耶稣说「这是我立约的血」时，福音派却认为他并没有真的参与缔结盟约，因为他手里没有真的血。
- start: 2887.069
  end: 2894.129
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That strikes me as glaringly bad for Jesus, because what does that mean?
  zh: 这对耶稣来说非常不利，因为这意味着什么？
- start: 2894.129
  end: 2903.369
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That means what Moses was doing was superior to what Jesus is doing, because Moses is actually involved in covenant formation and then they behold God and eat and drink.
  zh: 这意味着摩西所做的比耶稣所做的更高明，因为摩西真的缔结了盟约，还见神、吃喝。
- start: 2903.369
  end: 2913.009
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In the Evangelical version, Jesus is just like, "This is the symbol of my blood," and so it's just wine or even grape juice, worse.
  zh: 在福音派的理解中，耶稣只是说「这是我血的象征」，所以只是酒，甚至只是葡萄汁，更糟。
- start: 2913.009
  end: 2915.449
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And then they don't behold God and eat and drink.
  zh: 而且他们也没有见神、吃喝。
- start: 2915.449
  end: 2919.269
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: They remember God, who's not present there in that way.
  zh: 他们只是纪念神，而神并没有以那种方式临在。
- start: 2919.269
  end: 2923.829
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That is a downgrade, and a pretty obvious downgrade.
  zh: 这是一种降格，而且是非常明显的降格。
- start: 2923.829
  end: 2926.649
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, that doesn't work in light of Hebrews.
  zh: 但这和希伯来书的教导是矛盾的。
- start: 2926.649
  end: 2948.783
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Hebrews 10 goes on to say that the law is but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities.And that's critical because the point that the author of Hebrews is making throughout Hebrews 9 and then into Hebrews 10 is all of that stuff Moses was doing, and all the stuff with Yom Kippur, all of that stuff is prefiguring new and better stuff that Jesus is doing.
  zh: 希伯来书10章说，律法不过是将来美事的影儿，不是本体。关键在于，希伯来书9章到10章的作者一直在强调，摩西所做的一切、赎罪日的一切，都是预表耶稣要成就的更新、更美的事。
- start: 2948.783
  end: 2953.823
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And yet, in the evangelical read of the Last Supper, it's the other way around.
  zh: 然而，在福音派对最后晚餐的理解中，情况正好相反。
- start: 2953.823
  end: 2956.844
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Moses is doing something cooler than what Jesus is doing.
  zh: 摩西做的比耶稣做的还要厉害。
- start: 2956.844
  end: 2958.244
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Moses is doing something better.
  zh: 摩西做得更好。
- start: 2958.244
  end: 2963.423
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Moses' words actually create covenant, Jesus' words don't.
  zh: 摩西的话真的能立约，耶稣的话却不能。
- start: 2963.423
  end: 2982.304
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, it's a red flag that something is grossly wrong in the evangelical understanding of the passage and the only way around it is to say, just as Moses actually had blood when he said that this was the blood of the covenant, Jesus, when He says it's His blood of the covenant, also actually has blood.
  zh: 这就说明福音派对这段经文的理解有严重问题，唯一合理的解释就是：正如摩西说「这是立约的血」时手里有真的血，耶稣说「这是我立约的血」时也真的有血。
- start: 2982.304
  end: 2990.224
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And just as Moses and his followers ate and drank in divine presence, so in the Eucharist, we're not just eating and drinking in divine presence.
  zh: 正如摩西和跟随者在神的面前吃喝，在圣餐中，我们不仅仅是在神面前吃喝。
- start: 2990.224
  end: 2991.964
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That was just a foreshadowing.
  zh: 那只是一个预表。
- start: 2991.964
  end: 2994.943
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We're now eating and drinking God Himself.
  zh: 我们现在是在吃喝神自己。
- start: 2994.943
  end: 3002.523
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The only way to go beyond eating and drinking in the presence of God is for your meal to be the direct communion with God.
  zh: 唯一超越「在神面前吃喝」的方式，就是你的筵席本身就是与神直接相交。
- start: 3002.523
  end: 3009.983
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You get rid of any mediator like a sacrificial offering because Christ Himself is the sacrificial offering that you, that you're consuming.
  zh: 你不再需要任何中介（如祭牲），因为基督自己就是你所领受的祭献。
- start: 3009.983
  end: 3015.303
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So, if you understand Hebrews 9, then I think all of this makes sense.
  zh: 所以，如果你明白希伯来书9章，这一切就都说得通了。
- start: 3015.303
  end: 3029.983
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now also, if you understand this middle part of Hebrews 9, then hopefully you can understand why all of this makes sense of Christ both presenting the blood in heaven and us continuing to have this heavenly meal even on Earth.
  zh: 如果你明白希伯来书9章中间这一段，你就会明白为什么基督在天上奉献宝血、我们在地上继续享用天上的筵席，这一切都说得通。
- start: 3029.983
  end: 3041.163
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So you understand the way Yom Kippur prefigures Jesus' death and his ascension into heaven in light of the way Hebrews 9 talks about Exodus prefiguring the Last Supper as well.
  zh: 你也会明白，正如希伯来书9章讲出埃及记如何预表最后晚餐，赎罪日也预表了耶稣的死亡和升天。
- start: 3041.163
  end: 3045.263
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: If you separate the two, I think you're not gonna understand what Hebrews 9 is saying.
  zh: 如果你把这两者分开，我认为你就无法理解希伯来书9章的真正意思。
- start: 3045.263
  end: 3051.503
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Okay, so let's wrap this up and say how does Christ fulfill the sacrificial system of the Old Testament?
  zh: 好了，我们来总结一下，基督是如何成全旧约的祭献制度的？
- start: 3051.503
  end: 3053.403
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, I'm speaking very broadly here, right?
  zh: 这里我说的是大致的框架。
- start: 3053.403
  end: 3058.803
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But broadly we can talk about four steps, the offering or the consecration of the animal.
  zh: 大致上可以分为四个步骤：第一步是奉献或祝圣祭牲。
- start: 3058.803
  end: 3063.523
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This is prefiguring when Christ says, "This is my body.
  zh: 这预表了基督说「这是我的身体」的时候。
- start: 3063.523
  end: 3064.903
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This is my blood." He gives Himself.
  zh: 「这是我的血。」他把自己奉献出来。
- start: 3064.903
  end: 3066.703
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He lays down His life there at the Last Supper.
  zh: 他在最后晚餐上舍了自己的生命。
- start: 3066.703
  end: 3069.243
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And this is repeated.
  zh: 而且这是可以重复的。
- start: 3069.243
  end: 3071.003
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He gives a do this instruction.
  zh: 他吩咐我们「你们要如此行」。
- start: 3071.003
  end: 3072.763
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's not once for all.
  zh: 这不是一次性的。
- start: 3072.763
  end: 3078.383
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He says, "Do this in remembrance of me, in anamnesis of me." Then you, step two is a ritual killing.
  zh: 他说：「你们要如此行，为的是记念我。」第二步是仪式性的宰杀。
- start: 3078.383
  end: 3079.403
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's Good Friday.
  zh: 这就是受难日。
- start: 3079.403
  end: 3080.283
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's once for all.
  zh: 这是一次性的。
- start: 3080.283
  end: 3081.123
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's un-repeated.
  zh: 这是不可重复的。
- start: 3081.123
  end: 3085.683
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Then you have the application or the presentation of the blood.
  zh: 接下来是血的应用或奉献。
- start: 3085.683
  end: 3089.503
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's smearing the blood on the posts of the cross.
  zh: 这就是把血涂在十字架的木头上。
- start: 3089.503
  end: 3092.203
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: This is also the presentation of the blood in heaven.
  zh: 这同样也是在天上奉献宝血。
- start: 3092.203
  end: 3100.483
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: There is a sense in which that's fulfilled on Ascension Thursday, particularly with going into the holy place, Yom Kippur, and that is also once for all.
  zh: 某种意义上，这在升天日得到了成全，特别是进入至圣所（赎罪日的意象），这也是一次性的。
- start: 3100.483
  end: 3103.563
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We point to the blood again, right?
  zh: 我们再次指向宝血，对吧？
- start: 3103.563
  end: 3112.683
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Like there's a sense of application of the blood here on Earth, but certainly the heavenly application of the blood is done once for all when Christ enters into the holy place, as Hebrews says.
  zh: 在地上有血的应用，但在天上，基督进入至圣所时，宝血的应用是一次性的，正如希伯来书所说。
- start: 3112.683
  end: 3115.023
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But then the last step is the eating.
  zh: 最后一步是吃。
- start: 3115.023
  end: 3117.323
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We eat the flesh, we drink the blood.
  zh: 我们吃他的肉，喝他的血。
- start: 3117.323
  end: 3125.103
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That happens on Holy Thursday as well, and at every mass subsequent, again with the do this kind of language.
  zh: 这同样发生在圣周四，也发生在此后每一台弥撒中，依然用「你们要如此行」的语言。
- start: 3125.103
  end: 3134.883
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, I wanna just wrap this up by, by tying in a couple other broad points about sacrifice we see from the Old Testament that, that point to this.
  zh: 现在我想再总结一下旧约中关于祭献的几个重要观点，这些都指向了这一切。
- start: 3134.883
  end: 3142.843
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And one of those is the connection between the table of the Lord, which is clearly present at the Last Supper, and the altar of the Lord.
  zh: 其中之一就是主的桌子（在最后晚餐中很明显）与主的祭坛之间的联系。
- start: 3142.843
  end: 3148.703
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Because for many modern Protestants, the table of the Lord just means like a kitchen table or a dinner table.
  zh: 因为对许多现代新教徒来说，「主的桌子」只是厨房桌子或饭桌的意思。
- start: 3148.703
  end: 3150.463
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We're just gathering around and commemorating.
  zh: 我们只是围坐一起纪念而已。
- start: 3150.463
  end: 3154.063
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But in fact, the table of the Lord is an altar.
  zh: 但实际上，主的桌子就是祭坛。
- start: 3154.063
  end: 3154.683
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: How do we know that?
  zh: 我们怎么知道？
- start: 3154.683
  end: 3157.003
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, one of the places we know that is Malachi 1.
  zh: 有一个地方可以证明，就是玛拉基书第一章。
- start: 3157.003
  end: 3159.163
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Read verse 6-7.
  zh: 请看6-7节。
- start: 3159.163
  end: 3163.243
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: God is rebuking the unholy priests of Israel.
  zh: 神在责备以色列不敬虔的祭司。
- start: 3163.243
  end: 3164.643
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He says, "How have you despised...
  zh: 他说：「你们如何藐视……
- start: 3164.643
  end: 3170.823
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You say, how have we despised thy name?" And he answers, "By offering polluted food upon my altar." And you say, "How have we polluted it?
  zh: 你们说：『我们在何事上藐视你的名呢？』神回答说：『就是你们把污秽的食物献在我的坛上。』你们又说：『我们在何事上污秽你呢？』
- start: 3170.823
  end: 3177.763
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: By thinking that the Lord's table may be despised." Notice he uses the phrase my altar and the Lord's table interchangeably.
  zh: 『就是你们说耶和华的桌子是可藐视的。』请注意，他把「我的坛」和「耶和华的桌子」互换使用。
- start: 3177.763
  end: 3179.803
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The Lord's table is an altar.
  zh: 主的桌子就是祭坛。
- start: 3179.803
  end: 3187.083
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That becomes very relevant when we read about the table of the Lord in regards to the Eucharist in 1 Corinthians.
  zh: 当我们读到哥林多前书里关于圣餐的「主的桌子」时，这就非常重要了。
- start: 3187.083
  end: 3197.863
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Remember that pastor at the beginning of the episode who was lamenting that at the heart of the church, in a Catholic church, you're not gonna find a pulpit where somebody's preaching to you.
  zh: 还记得本集开头那位牧师感叹说，在公教会的教堂里，教会的中心不是讲台，不是有人在讲道。
- start: 3197.863
  end: 3199.863
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You're gonna find the altar, the table of the Lord.
  zh: 你会看到的是祭坛，是主的桌子。
- start: 3199.863
  end: 3201.543
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's Biblical.
  zh: 这是合乎圣经的。
- start: 3201.543
  end: 3211.203
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Like when Christ says, "If you've got a problem with your brother, go and resolve it with your brother before you bring your gifts to the altar," He's presupposing that in Christian worship, the center of that worship is an altar.
  zh: 比如基督说：「你若在祭坛上献礼物，想起弟兄向你怀怨，就先去与弟兄和好，然后来献礼物。」他假定基督徒敬拜的中心是祭坛。
- start: 3211.203
  end: 3216.583
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That doesn't stop just because somebody wants to preach instead of focus on the table of the Lord.
  zh: 这不会因为有人想讲道而不是专注于主的桌子就被取消。
- start: 3216.583
  end: 3218.923
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: 1 Corinthians 10.
  zh: 哥林多前书第十章。
- start: 3218.923
  end: 3223.223
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Saint Paul's talking about the Eucharist and he puts it in Passover terms.
  zh: 圣保罗在谈论圣餐时，用的是逾越节的语言。
- start: 3223.223
  end: 3227.383
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The cup of blessing is the third of the four cups, uh, in the Passover liturgy.
  zh: 祝福的杯是逾越节礼仪中四杯中的第三杯。
- start: 3227.383
  end: 3236.263
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He says, "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ?" Okay, so he's taking for granted, he's asking this rhetorically, right?
  zh: 他说：「我们所祝福的杯，岂不是同领基督的血吗？」他这是反问，默认大家都明白。
- start: 3236.263
  end: 3249.603
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That when we receive our Passover, we are receiving the cup of blessing, and this is in some way a participation in the blood of Christ, not merely the recollection, but a participation in the blood of Christ.
  zh: 当我们领受逾越节时，我们领受的是祝福的杯，这在某种意义上是参与基督的宝血，不只是回忆，而是真正参与基督的宝血。
- start: 3249.603
  end: 3250.783
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, how could that be?
  zh: 那这怎么可能呢？
- start: 3250.783
  end: 3252.423
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's the question you should be asking.
  zh: 你应该问这个问题。
- start: 3252.423
  end: 3253.483
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Is...
  zh: 那……
- start: 3253.483
  end: 3255.763
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Then I'm gonna give you a second rhetorical question.
  zh: 接下来我再给你第二个反问。
- start: 3255.763
  end: 3260.043
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?
  zh: 我们所擘开的饼，岂不是同领基督的身体吗？
- start: 3260.043
  end: 3262.363
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Okay, how could that be?
  zh: 那这又怎么可能呢？
- start: 3262.363
  end: 3270.483
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Then he's gonna say a third provocative thing, because there is, it actually says one loaf, arton in Greek.
  zh: 然后他还要说第三个发人深省的话，因为经文说「只有一个饼」（希腊文是arton）。
- start: 3270.483
  end: 3275.703
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Because there is one loaf, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.
  zh: 「我们虽多，仍是一个身体，因为我们都是分受这一个饼。」
- start: 3275.703
  end: 3278.503
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Now, I've seen Protestants point to this and say, "Aha!
  zh: 我见过新教徒用这节经文说：「你看！」
- start: 3278.503
  end: 3291.903
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Paul must not think that this actually becomes the body and blood of Christ 'cause he calls it the one bread." This is a very bad objection because he can't literally mean there's one loaf of bread all of the Christians on Earth are sharing.
  zh: 保罗既然称之为一个饼，就一定不认为它真的变成了基督的身体和宝血。」这种反对很糟糕，因为他不可能真的指全世界所有基督徒都分一块饼。
- start: 3291.903
  end: 3299.889
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You can't even imagine that all the Christians in Corinth are sharing the same loaf of bread with one another and Saint Paul, who's not there in Corinth....
  zh: 你甚至无法想象哥林多所有基督徒都分同一个饼，更别说圣保罗本人也不在哥林多……
- start: 3299.889
  end: 3307.189
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: clearly the one loaf, as when Christ describes one loaf being o- on the boat, the one bread, the one loaf is Jesus Christ.
  zh: 很明显，这里的「一个饼」，就像基督在船上讲「一个饼」一样，这「一个饼」指的就是耶稣基督。
- start: 3307.189
  end: 3314.689
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So taking that to mean like, oh, it must literally be a loaf of bread, is, is a very bad misreading.
  zh: 所以把它理解为「一定是字面意义上的一块饼」，是非常糟糕的误解。
- start: 3314.689
  end: 3317.329
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So you get three things he's laying out here.
  zh: 所以这里有三点。
- start: 3317.329
  end: 3321.229
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Number one, when we drink from the chalice, we're participating in the blood of Christ.
  zh: 第一，我们喝圣爵，就是参与基督的宝血。
- start: 3321.229
  end: 3327.469
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: When we eat of the Eucharistic bread or loaf or host, whatever you want to say, we're participating in the body of Christ.
  zh: 第二，我们吃圣餐的饼、面饼或圣餐饼，无论怎么说，都是参与基督的身体。
- start: 3327.469
  end: 3334.909
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And third, in some way, because we're doing that, because we're partaking, we are becoming the body of Christ.
  zh: 第三，在某种意义上，因为我们这样做、这样领受，我们就成为基督的身体。
- start: 3334.909
  end: 3343.069
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: We are becoming united with Christ such that we're not united just with Christ the head, we're also united one with another as the body of Christ.
  zh: 我们与基督联合，不只是与基督为元首联合，也彼此联合成为基督的身体。
- start: 3343.069
  end: 3348.47
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He's going to expand on that theology more a couple chapters later in First Corinthians 12.
  zh: 他在哥林多前书12章还会进一步展开这个神学。
- start: 3348.47
  end: 3352.229
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But I'm gonna focus more on the first two of those three questions.
  zh: 但我现在要更专注于前两个问题。
- start: 3352.229
  end: 3355.609
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The third one I think will become clear in answering the first two.
  zh: 第三个问题在回答前两个时自然会明了。
- start: 3355.609
  end: 3360.589
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: He's gonna explain how this can be, and the first way he's gonna look is, well, look at the practice of Israel.
  zh: 他要解释这是怎么回事，首先要看的就是以色列的做法。
- start: 3360.589
  end: 3363.869
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Are not those who eat the sacrifices partners in the altar?
  zh: 吃祭物的人，不就是与祭坛有分的人吗？
- start: 3363.869
  end: 3364.869
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: What's he mean there?
  zh: 他这是什么意思？
- start: 3364.869
  end: 3368.629
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: It's what we've been talking about for the last better part of an hour.
  zh: 这正是我们过去大半个小时一直在讨论的内容。
- start: 3368.629
  end: 3375.409
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That when you sacrifice, that is not how you become united with the sacrifice, just with the killing.
  zh: 献祭时，光是宰杀祭牲，并不能让你与祭品联合。
- start: 3375.409
  end: 3379.529
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You then have to eat the sacrifice to become a partner in the altar.
  zh: 你还必须吃祭品，才能成为与祭坛有分的人。
- start: 3379.529
  end: 3382.449
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Somebody else might be at the altar doing the actual killing.
  zh: 也许是别人站在祭坛前实际宰杀祭牲。
- start: 3382.449
  end: 3384.389
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You become a partner by eating.
  zh: 你是通过吃祭品而有分于祭坛的。
- start: 3384.389
  end: 3387.57
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You know, let's say you're a kid in the household.
  zh: 比如说，你是家里的小孩。
- start: 3387.57
  end: 3389.49
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You're not the primary breadwinner.
  zh: 你不是家里的经济支柱。
- start: 3389.49
  end: 3391.089
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You didn't buy the lamb.
  zh: 你没有买那只羊。
- start: 3391.089
  end: 3392.449
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You didn't raise the lamb.
  zh: 你也没养那只羊。
- start: 3392.449
  end: 3394.17
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You didn't slaughter the lamb.
  zh: 你也没宰那只羊。
- start: 3394.17
  end: 3397.15
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: How are you covered by the sacrifice of the lamb?
  zh: 那你怎么能因羊的祭献而得益呢？
- start: 3397.15
  end: 3398.25
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, by eating the lamb.
  zh: 就是通过吃那只羊。
- start: 3398.25
  end: 3399.489
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That's how.
  zh: 就是这样。
- start: 3399.489
  end: 3408.19
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And that's Saint Paul's point, that if you understand that, then you understand how it is the Eucharist makes us partners in Christ's sacrifice on the cross, because we're eating the flesh of Christ.
  zh: 这正是圣保罗的意思。如果你明白这一点，你就明白为什么圣餐让我们与基督在十字架上的祭献有分，因为我们吃的是基督的肉。
- start: 3408.19
  end: 3416.969
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But notice, that analogy only makes sense if the Eucharist is a sacrifice, like the Jewish sacrifices of old.
  zh: 但请注意，这个类比只有在圣餐本身就是祭献、像旧约的犹太祭献一样时才说得通。
- start: 3416.969
  end: 3419.949
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Because they're not just remembering.
  zh: 因为他们不仅仅是在纪念。
- start: 3419.949
  end: 3423.329
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Like, the Passover isn't just a recollection of the lamb got killed yesterday.
  zh: 比如说，逾越节不是单纯回忆昨天那只羊被宰了。
- start: 3423.329
  end: 3427.109
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: No, they're actually participating in the sacrifice of the lamb by eating it.
  zh: 不，他们是通过吃羊，实际参与了祭献。
- start: 3427.109
  end: 3436.949
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: If that wasn't provocative enough, he's then going to contrast it with the practice of pagans, as they do the same thing in sacrifices to demons.
  zh: 如果这还不够有挑战性，他接下来还要把这和外邦人的做法作对比——他们在向鬼献祭时也做同样的事。
- start: 3436.949
  end: 3440.529
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: That what they sacrificed, they offer to demons and not to God.
  zh: 他们所献的祭，是献给鬼，不是献给神。
- start: 3440.529
  end: 3448.969
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And so they become partners by making idolatrous sacrifices, and then critically, eating those sacrifices.
  zh: 他们通过献偶像的祭、特别是吃那些祭品，成为与鬼有分的人。
- start: 3448.969
  end: 3453.989
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And Paul's point, he says, is, "I do not want you to be partners with demons.
  zh: 保罗的意思是：「我不愿意你们与鬼有分。」
- start: 3453.989
  end: 3457.009
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons.
  zh: 「你们不能喝主的杯，又喝鬼的杯。」
- start: 3457.009
  end: 3461.969
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons." What's the table of demons?
  zh: 「你们不能在主的桌子上有分，又在鬼的桌子上有分。」那鬼的桌子是什么？
- start: 3461.969
  end: 3462.769
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Well, it's an altar.
  zh: 其实就是祭坛。
- start: 3462.769
  end: 3464.749
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: What's the table of the Lord?
  zh: 那主的桌子是什么？
- start: 3464.749
  end: 3468.629
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Also an altar in a Eucharistic context.
  zh: 在圣餐的语境下，也是祭坛。
- start: 3468.629
  end: 3474.989
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: So in Saint Paul's understanding of Christian worship, the altar is front and center.
  zh: 所以在圣保罗对基督徒敬拜的理解中，祭坛是核心。
- start: 3474.989
  end: 3479.109
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: In many modern evangelicals, it's not.
  zh: 但在许多现代福音派教会中却不是这样。
- start: 3479.109
  end: 3480.009
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: The pulpit is.
  zh: 他们把讲台当作中心。
- start: 3480.009
  end: 3486.629
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: And I would suggest that is a pretty obvious violation of the Biblical pattern of worship, that you can...
  zh: 我认为这明显违背了圣经的敬拜模式，因为……
- start: 3486.629
  end: 3506.629
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: If you understand Jewish sacrifice, then you can hopefully see why today, on Holy Thursday, we celebrate that everything prefigured in the old covenant with all the sacrificial worship is being fulfilled now, first at the table of the Lord, the altar, the Last Supper, and then at the altar of the Lord, the cross.
  zh: 如果你明白犹太的祭献，你就会明白为什么我们今天在圣周四庆祝，旧约中所有祭献礼仪的预表如今都在主的桌子——祭坛——最后晚餐上得以实现，然后又在主的祭坛——十字架上得以实现。
- start: 3506.629
  end: 3528.989
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: But that the cross and the table are both altars, and they have to be understood in relation to one another, because one is the altar at which the lamb is to be sacrificed tomorrow, and the other is the altar at which the Lamb lays down his life and gives himself to be eaten so that we too can behold God and eat and drink.
  zh: 但十字架和桌子都是祭坛，必须联系起来理解。一个是明天要献羊羔的祭坛，另一个是羔羊舍命、把自己给我们吃喝的祭坛，好让我们也能见神、吃喝。
- start: 3528.989
  end: 3532.009
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: For Shameless Potpourri, I'm Joe Heschmeyer.
  zh: 这里是Shameless Potpourri，我是乔·赫施迈耶。
- start: 3532.009
  end: 3532.909
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: God bless you.
  zh: 愿神赐福你。
- start: 3532.909
  end: 3538.009
  speaker: speaker_0
  en: Have a blessed Holy Thursday, Good Friday, and pretty soon, Easter Sunday.
  zh: 愿你有蒙福的圣周四、受难日，以及即将到来的复活主日。
