- start: 29.899
  end: 32.2
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Welcome to The Way of the Fathers.
  zh: 欢迎收听《教父之路》。
- start: 32.2
  end: 37.239
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: I'm Jim Papandrea, and this podcast is a production of Catholic Culture.
  zh: 我是吉姆·帕潘德里亚，这个播客是公教文化的一个制作。
- start: 37.239
  end: 42.639
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Sign up for our newsletter at catholicculture.org/newsletter.
  zh: 请在catholicculture.org/newsletter订阅我们的通讯。
- start: 42.639
  end: 50.84
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: "Today we continue our series on The Heresies with Episode 10: Re-baptism and the Donatists."
  zh: 今天我们继续我们的《异端系列》，第十集：重洗礼和多纳图派。
- start: 50.84
  end: 68.379
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: If you listened to the last episode, you know about the Schism of Novatian, and you know that Novatian seems to have re-baptized people who came over to his faction, but who had been baptized in the Catholic mainstream after the persecution.
  zh: 如果你听了上一集，你就知道诺瓦天的分裂，也知道诺瓦天似乎给那些从大公教会主流转到他的派别的人重新施洗，尽管这些人在迫害之后已经在大公教会受过洗。
- start: 68.379
  end: 70.42
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Why did he do this?
  zh: 他为什么这样做？
- start: 70.42
  end: 81.259
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Because he was afraid that they might have been baptized by someone who had lapsed in the persecution, that is, made the pagan sacrifices out of fear.
  zh: 因为他担心这些人可能是被在迫害中背教的人施洗的，也就是说，那些因为恐惧而向异教献祭的人。
- start: 81.259
  end: 90.619
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: But in practicing re-baptism, Novatian revealed that he was working with a flawed understanding of baptism.
  zh: 但在实行重洗礼时，诺瓦天显露出他对洗礼的理解是有缺陷的。
- start: 90.619
  end: 94.74
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: In fact, a flawed understanding of the sacraments in general.
  zh: 事实上，这是对圣事整体的理解缺陷。
- start: 94.74
  end: 105.16
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: So one of the results of the third century persecution and the Schism of Novatian was a controversy over sacramental theology.
  zh: 因此，三世纪迫害和诺瓦天分裂的结果之一就是引发了关于圣事神学的争议。
- start: 105.16
  end: 118.519
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: The question is, does the validity, and therefore the effectiveness, of a sacrament depend on a certain level of holiness in the one who presides over the sacrament?
  zh: 问题是，圣事的有效性，因此也是其效力，是否取决于主持圣事者的某种程度的圣洁？
- start: 118.519
  end: 131.099
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Novatian would say that if you got baptized and later found out that the bishop who baptized you had lapsed, well, then you have not, in fact, been baptized.
  zh: 诺瓦天会说，如果你受了洗，后来发现为你施洗的主教曾经背教，那么你实际上并没有真正受洗。
- start: 131.099
  end: 143.08
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Now to be clear, he was wrong in thinking this way, which is good news for anyone who might have received sacraments from a presider who later turned out to be in mortal sin.
  zh: 现在要明确的是，他这种想法是错误的，这对那些可能从后来发现陷入大罪的主持者那里接受圣事的人来说是个好消息。
- start: 143.08
  end: 148.559
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: In the aftermath of scandal, do you need to get all your sacraments again?
  zh: 在丑闻之后，你需要重新接受所有圣事吗？
- start: 148.559
  end: 152.239
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Well, no, you don't, and here's why.
  zh: 不，你不需要，这就是原因。
- start: 152.239
  end: 176.699
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: "You see, if the question is whether the validity of a sacrament depends on the holiness of the presider, then the question behind that question is this: Does the grace of a sacrament come to the recipient directly from God or does it come from God through the presider as some kind of conduit?"
  zh: 你看，如果问题是圣事的有效性是否取决于主持者的圣洁，那么这个问题背后的问题是：圣事的恩典是直接从神传递给接受者，还是通过主持者作为某种渠道从神那里传递？
- start: 176.699
  end: 187.339
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: If grace comes through the presider, then a sinful presider would theoretically not be able to pass on that grace to the recipient.
  zh: 如果恩典是通过主持者传递的，那么理论上一个有罪的主持者就无法将恩典传递给接受者。
- start: 187.339
  end: 191.219
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: It would be like putting a kink in the hose of grace.
  zh: 这就像在恩典的水管上打了个结。
- start: 191.219
  end: 199.579
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: The presider in mortal sin would not be able to receive the grace in order to pass it on to the recipient of the sacrament.
  zh: 陷入大罪的主持者将无法接收恩典来传递给圣事的接受者。
- start: 199.579
  end: 209.019
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: But thankfully, the answer to that question behind the question is that grace does not come to the recipient through the presider.
  zh: 但值得庆幸的是，对那个问题背后的问题的答案是，恩典并不是通过主持者传递给接受者的。
- start: 209.019
  end: 217.559
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Sacraments are miracles, not magic tricks, and the grace comes to the recipient directly from God.
  zh: 圣事是奇迹，不是魔术把戏，恩典是直接从神传递给接受者的。
- start: 217.559
  end: 227.239
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Another way to say that is that a sacrament is a work of God, not a work of a human person, at least not primarily.
  zh: 换句话说，圣事是神的工作，而不是人的工作，至少不主要是人的工作。
- start: 227.239
  end: 235.999
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And this is why we say that a sacrament works because it is done, not that it depends on factors related to the presider.
  zh: 这就是为什么我们说圣事是因为它被执行而有效，而不是取决于与主持者相关的因素。
- start: 235.999
  end: 240.699
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: The Latin phrase for this is ex opere operato.
  zh: 这用拉丁语说是ex opere operato。
- start: 240.699
  end: 244.099
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: The sacrament works because it is done.
  zh: 圣事因为被执行而有效。
- start: 244.099
  end: 246.719
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: That is, as long as it's done correctly.
  zh: 也就是说，只要它被正确执行。
- start: 246.719
  end: 254.859
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And here's where it gets tricky, because with Novatian's schism, something new had emerged.
  zh: 这里就变得棘手了，因为随着诺瓦天的分裂，出现了一些新情况。
- start: 254.859
  end: 264.939
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Before Novatian, it could always be assumed that if a person came into the church from a heresy, he or she needed to be baptized.
  zh: 在诺瓦天之前，人们总是认为如果一个人从异端来到教会，他或她需要受洗。
- start: 264.939
  end: 268.799
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Not re-baptized, but just baptized.
  zh: 不是重新受洗，而只是受洗。
- start: 268.799
  end: 279.119
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: If a person came from Judaism, even though they had had their purification baths, well, that wasn't Christian baptism, and so they needed to be baptized.
  zh: 如果一个人来自犹太教，即使他们有过洁净浴，那也不是基督教的洗礼，所以他们需要受洗。
- start: 279.119
  end: 291.099
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: In fact, the church fathers all assumed that even the people who had been baptized by John the Baptizer, those people still needed to be baptized with Jesus' baptism.
  zh: 事实上，教父们都认为，即使是被施洗者约翰施洗过的人，这些人仍然需要接受耶稣的洗礼。
- start: 291.099
  end: 309.759
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And obviously, if someone came to Christianity from some Greco-Roman mystery cult, they're not going to say, "Well, I was baptized in bull's blood in my initiation to Isis, so I don't need to be baptized with Christian baptism." No, you still need to be baptized.
  zh: 显然，如果有人从某个希腊罗马神秘崇拜来到基督教，他们不会说：「我在伊西斯崇拜入会仪式中用公牛血受过洗，所以我不需要接受基督教的洗礼。」不，你仍然需要受洗。
- start: 309.759
  end: 319.659
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And if someone came to Christianity from one of the heresies we've looked at so far, well, they would also need to be baptized.
  zh: 如果有人从我们之前看过的那些异端来到基督教，他们也需要受洗。
- start: 319.659
  end: 330.759
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: If a Marcionite was baptized in the name of some cosmic phantom Christ, he would still need to be baptized with Christian baptism.
  zh: 如果一个马吉安派的信徒是以某个宇宙幻影基督的名义受洗的，他仍然需要接受基督教的洗礼。
- start: 330.759
  end: 337.899
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: In fact, Marcion himself allowed up to three baptisms for each of his followers.
  zh: 事实上，马吉安允许他的每个追随者最多受洗三次。
- start: 337.899
  end: 347.399
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: But that's not a real Christian baptism, so if that person were to come into the mainstream, they would have to be baptized.
  zh: 但那不是真正的基督教洗礼，所以如果那个人要加入主流教会，他们就必须受洗。
- start: 347.399
  end: 360.059
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Likewise, if an Adoptionist was baptized in some non-Trinitarian baptism, well, that's also not real Christian baptism, so that person would have to be baptized.
  zh: 同样，如果一个采纳论者接受了某种非三位一体的洗礼，那也不是真正的基督教洗礼，所以那个人必须受洗。
- start: 360.059
  end: 375.779
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: But Novatian was doctrinally orthodox, at least with regard to the doctrine of the Trinity, and that means that his baptism was a legitimate baptism into the right God, into the Trinity.
  zh: 但诺瓦天在教义上是正统的，至少在三位一体的教义上是这样，这意味着他的洗礼是一个合法的洗礼，是归入正确的神，归入三位一体。
- start: 375.779
  end: 386.239
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: So if someone was baptized by Novatian and then joined the Catholic mainstream, did that person need to be baptized?
  zh: 所以如果有人是被诺瓦天施洗，然后加入大公教会主流，这个人需要受洗吗？
- start: 386.239
  end: 391.199
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Well, Cyprian of Carthage said yes.
  zh: 迦太基的居普良说需要。
- start: 391.199
  end: 395.379
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: He claimed that he had the older tradition.
  zh: 他声称他遵循的是更古老的传统。
- start: 395.379
  end: 398.019
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Of course we baptize heretics.
  zh: 我们当然要给异端者施洗。
- start: 398.019
  end: 403.119
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: But what he missed was that now there was a new situation.
  zh: 但他没有注意到现在出现了一个新情况。
- start: 403.119
  end: 420.739
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Now there was a distinction to be made between heresy and schism, and now it was possible for someone to be in schism and yet not quite be a heretic to the point that it makes them no longer Christian.
  zh: 现在需要区分异端和分裂，现在可能有人处于分裂状态，但还没有到不再是基督徒的异端程度。
- start: 420.739
  end: 435.599
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Now to be fair, most of the church fathers would have said that all schism is automatically heresy, but the point is that beginning with Novatian's schism, that's really no longer the case.
  zh: 公平地说，大多数教父会说所有的分裂自动就是异端，但关键是从诺瓦天的分裂开始，情况就不再是这样了。
- start: 435.599
  end: 447.319
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: It is now possible to be outside the mainstream church and in a faction, but one which is orthodox enough to effect a valid baptism.
  zh: 现在可能出现这种情况：一个人虽然在主流教会之外，属于某个派别，但这个派别足够正统，能够施行有效的洗礼。
- start: 447.319
  end: 459.379
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And in any case, in the end, in re-baptizing Novatianists, Cyprian was actually accepting the same errors about baptism as Novatian.
  zh: 无论如何，最终，在给诺瓦天派信徒重新施洗时，居普良实际上接受了与诺瓦天相同的关于洗礼的错误观点。
- start: 459.379
  end: 465.119
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And this flawed understanding of baptism took hold in North Africa.
  zh: 这种对洗礼的错误理解在北非扎根了。
- start: 465.119
  end: 477.059
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Now, fast-forward a bit, and in time, in North Africa, this same flawed understanding of baptism got extrapolated to the other sacraments.
  zh: 现在，时间快进一点，在北非，这种对洗礼的错误理解被推广到其他圣事上。
- start: 477.059
  end: 494.373
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: In other words, well, what if your priest was ordained or your bishop was elevated to the episcopacy by someone who lapsed in a persecution?And this is where we come to the controversy over a group known as the Donatists.
  zh: 换句话说，如果你的祭司是由一个在迫害中背教的人授予圣职的，或者你的主教是由这样的人提升为主教的，那该怎么办？这就是我们来到多纳图派争议的地方。
- start: 494.373
  end: 511.593
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Now I know I'm getting a little ahead of the timeline here, but we need to talk about the Donatists now, because they had taken this flawed sacramental theology to its logical conclusion until it became a full-blown heresy.
  zh: 我知道我有点超前于时间线了，但我们现在需要讨论多纳图派，因为他们把这种有缺陷的圣事神学发展到其逻辑结论，直到它成为一个完全的异端。
- start: 511.593
  end: 526.134
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: In many ways, the Donatists were just another group of rigorists, following in the footsteps of the rigorists we have already met, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Hippolytus, and of course, Novatian.
  zh: 在很多方面，多纳图派只是另一群严格主义者，追随着我们已经遇到的严格主义者的脚步，亚历山大的克莱门、特土良、希波律陀，当然还有诺瓦天。
- start: 526.134
  end: 540.833
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And while not all rigorists are necessarily heretics, the Donatists took it to the extreme, and thereby, placed themselves on the fringes of the mainstream church and in fact, they became separatists.
  zh: 虽然并非所有的严格主义者都必然是异端，但多纳图派走向了极端，因此，他们把自己置于主流教会的边缘，事实上，他们成了分离主义者。
- start: 540.833
  end: 545.213
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: They combined and amplified these two errors.
  zh: 他们结合并放大了这两个错误。
- start: 545.213
  end: 554.254
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: First, that flawed ecclesiology that saw the church as an enclave in which the pure have to be protected from the impure.
  zh: 首先，是那种有缺陷的教会论，把教会视为一个纯洁者必须受到保护免受不纯者影响的飞地。
- start: 554.254
  end: 564.013
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And second, the flawed sacramental theology in which the holiness of the presider is a criterion of validity.
  zh: 其次，是那种有缺陷的圣事神学，认为主持者的圣洁是有效性的标准。
- start: 564.013
  end: 584.453
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And so they followed Cyprian of Carthage in their belief that all schismatics needed re-baptism, except that the Donatists said that the Catholics were the schismatics, and so they believed that any Catholic who joined them needed to be re-baptized.
  zh: 因此他们追随迦太基的居普良，相信所有分裂者都需要重新受洗，只不过多纳图派说大公教会的信徒才是分裂者，所以他们认为任何加入他们的大公教会信徒都需要重新受洗。
- start: 584.453
  end: 589.453
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And as I mentioned, they applied this same logic to holy orders.
  zh: 正如我提到的，他们把这种逻辑也应用到圣秩上。
- start: 589.453
  end: 598.214
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: So after the next round of persecutions in the year 311 AD, a new bishop of Carthage was elected.
  zh: 所以在公元311年的下一轮迫害之后，一位新的迦太基主教被选出。
- start: 598.214
  end: 600.154
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: His name was Caecilian.
  zh: 他的名字是塞西良。
- start: 600.154
  end: 614.733
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: But a group of rigorists in North Africa made the accusation that one of the bishops who had consecrated Caecilian had cooperated with the Romans and had handed over some church property.
  zh: 但北非的一群严格主义者指控，祝圣塞西良的主教中有一位曾与罗马人合作，交出了一些教会财产。
- start: 614.733
  end: 622.853
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Now, that probably means that soldiers came to confiscate some liturgical objects and he didn't die defending them.
  zh: 这可能意味着士兵来没收一些礼仪用品，而他没有为保护它们而死。
- start: 622.853
  end: 626.474
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: But in any case, there's no proof that it was even true.
  zh: 但无论如何，这甚至没有证据证明是真的。
- start: 626.474
  end: 638.633
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: The point is that these North African rigorists claimed that therefore, the consecration of Caecilian to bishop was invalid, and he was not a bishop.
  zh: 关键是这些北非的严格主义者声称，因此塞西良被祝圣为主教是无效的，他不是一个主教。
- start: 638.633
  end: 643.993
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And as you might guess, they were ready to elevate their own guy to bishop.
  zh: 你可能猜到，他们准备推举他们自己的人选为主教。
- start: 643.993
  end: 653.774
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: So this is really a case of the rigorists trying to challenge an election for bishop and get one of their own to be the next bishop of Carthage.
  zh: 所以这实际上是严格主义者试图挑战主教选举，让他们自己的人成为迦太基的下一任主教。
- start: 653.774
  end: 661.094
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Now, their bishop's name was Donatus, and that's how they come to be called Donatists.
  zh: 他们的主教名叫多纳图，这就是他们被称为多纳图派的原因。
- start: 661.094
  end: 663.914
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: They were the followers of Donatus.
  zh: 他们是多纳图的追随者。
- start: 663.914
  end: 677.653
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And since the mainstream church did not depose Caecilian, the Donatists claimed to have their own bishop in Carthage in opposition to Caecilian and North Africa was in schism.
  zh: 由于主流教会没有废黜塞西良，多纳图派声称在迦太基有他们自己的主教与塞西良对抗，北非陷入了分裂。
- start: 677.653
  end: 690.453
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And this would spread to the point where most of the bigger cities in North Africa essentially had two bishops and two separate ecclesial communions, the Catholics and the Donatists.
  zh: 这种情况会扩散到北非大多数大城市实际上有两位主教和两个独立的教会团体，大公教会和多纳图派。
- start: 690.453
  end: 699.813
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And when Saint Augustine became bishop of Hippo Regius in North Africa, the Catholics in that city were actually the minority.
  zh: 当圣奥古斯丁成为北非希波的主教时，那个城市的大公教会信徒实际上是少数。
- start: 699.813
  end: 704.193
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: There were more Donatists in Hippo than Catholics.
  zh: 在希波，多纳图派的人数比大公教会信徒还多。
- start: 704.193
  end: 720.953
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: So this is very much like Novatian's schism in the sense that the Donatists seem to be doctrinally orthodox with regard to the Trinity, but their heresy is a heresy of ecclesiology and sacramental theology.
  zh: 这很像诺瓦天的分裂，因为多纳图派在三位一体的教义上似乎是正统的，但他们的异端是关于教会论和圣事神学的异端。
- start: 720.953
  end: 730.013
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Now the Catholic Church and the Donatists existed side by side in North Africa until the Islamic invasion in the seventh century.
  zh: 大公教会和多纳图派在北非并存，直到七世纪伊斯兰教的入侵。
- start: 730.013
  end: 738.313
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: At that time, North Africa, which had been predominantly Christian for 500 years, ceased to be Christian.
  zh: 在那时，已经有500年基督教占主导地位的北非不再是基督教地区。
- start: 738.313
  end: 744.073
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: What's at stake in all this is the question of what baptism really is.
  zh: 这一切的关键在于洗礼到底是什么。
- start: 744.073
  end: 754.913
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: As I mentioned, baptism is not primarily a human work, and it certainly is not what some branches of the Protestant Reformation would later make it out to be.
  zh: 如我所说，洗礼主要不是人的工作，它当然也不是后来新教改革的一些分支所说的那样。
- start: 754.913
  end: 760.453
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: That is, a rite of passage that commemorates a prior human decision.
  zh: 也就是说，一个纪念先前人的决定的成年礼。
- start: 760.453
  end: 771.833
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Baptism was always understood to be not simply a ritual of initiation, but a work of God that regenerates the recipient.
  zh: 洗礼一直被理解为不仅仅是一个入会仪式，而是神使接受者重生的工作。
- start: 771.833
  end: 786.653
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Yes, the early and medieval church always taught baptismal regeneration, but they did not teach a kind of once saved, always saved doctrine of guaranteed perseverance.
  zh: 是的，早期和中世纪教会一直教导洗礼重生，但他们并不教导一种一次得救永远得救的保证持守的教义。
- start: 786.653
  end: 796.013
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: So while baptism now saves you, to quote Saint Peter, it does not guarantee your perseverance to salvation.
  zh: 所以虽然洗礼现在拯救你，引用圣彼得的话，但它并不保证你会持守到得救。
- start: 796.013
  end: 804.253
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: In other words, the church always taught that a person can lose salvation through post-baptismal sin.
  zh: 换句话说，教会一直教导一个人可能通过洗礼后的罪失去救恩。
- start: 804.253
  end: 806.693
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And this is the issue.
  zh: 这就是问题所在。
- start: 806.693
  end: 814.033
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: If a person commits mortal sin after being baptized, what is the remedy for that?
  zh: 如果一个人在受洗后犯了大罪，补救的办法是什么？
- start: 814.033
  end: 816.393
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Is it re-baptism?
  zh: 是重新受洗吗？
- start: 816.393
  end: 818.573
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: The church says no.
  zh: 教会说不是。
- start: 818.573
  end: 825.213
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: As long as the person was validly baptized, we do not repeat baptism.
  zh: 只要这个人有效地受了洗，我们就不重复洗礼。
- start: 825.213
  end: 835.953
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: The remedy for post-baptismal mortal sin is a different sacrament, the sacrament of confession, penance, and reconciliation.
  zh: 洗礼后大罪的补救是另一个圣事，就是告解、忏悔和和好圣事。
- start: 835.953
  end: 842.473
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: The lion's share of the work in clarifying all of this was done by two church fathers.
  zh: 澄清这一切的主要工作是由两位教父完成的。
- start: 842.473
  end: 847.473
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: The first was the third century Bishop of Rome, Pope Saint Stephen.
  zh: 第一位是三世纪的罗马主教，教宗圣斯德望。
- start: 847.473
  end: 858.913
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: After Saint Cornelius, there was a pope called Lucius, and then after him, Stephen, who was bishop of Rome from 254 to 257 AD.
  zh: 在圣科尔内略之后，有一位叫路西乌的教宗，然后是斯德望，他在公元254年到257年间担任罗马主教。
- start: 858.913
  end: 865.053
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Stephen of Rome recognized what his colleague, Cyprian of Carthage, had not.
  zh: 罗马的斯德望认识到了他的同僚迦太基的居普良所没有认识到的。
- start: 865.053
  end: 877.553
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Stephen saw the distinction between a schism that is doctrinally orthodox enough to validly baptize, like Novatian's schism, and one that is not.
  zh: 斯德望看到了在教义上足够正统能够有效施行洗礼的分裂（如诺瓦天的分裂）和不能的分裂之间的区别。
- start: 877.553
  end: 882.013
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: But Cyprian refused to acknowledge that nuance.
  zh: 但居普良拒绝承认这种细微差别。
- start: 882.013
  end: 888.313
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: So to him, all schism is automatically a heresy without a valid baptism.
  zh: 所以对他来说，所有的分裂自动就是没有有效洗礼的异端。
- start: 888.313
  end: 890.393
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Now don't get me wrong.
  zh: 现在别误会我的意思。
- start: 890.393
  end: 893.993
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: I'm not saying that Cyprian of Carthage was a heretic.
  zh: 我不是说迦太基的居普良是异端。
- start: 893.993
  end: 895.093
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: He was not.
  zh: 他不是。
- start: 895.093
  end: 901.353
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And both Cyprian and Stephen would agree that baptism is unrepeatable.
  zh: 居普良和斯德望都同意洗礼是不可重复的。
- start: 901.353
  end: 905.453
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: That is, you cannot repeat a valid baptism.
  zh: 也就是说，你不能重复一个有效的洗礼。
- start: 905.453
  end: 910.513
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Their disagreement was over what constitutes a valid baptism.
  zh: 他们的分歧在于什么构成有效的洗礼。
- start: 910.513
  end: 936.793
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And in the dialogue between Stephen and Cyprian, Stephen would eventually clarify that what really matters, what really makes a baptism valid, is that the person is baptized into the right God, the real God, who is the Trinity, and that the baptism is conducted in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
  zh: 在斯德望和居普良的对话中，斯德望最终澄清了真正重要的是，真正使洗礼有效的是，这个人是归入正确的神，真实的神，就是三位一体的神，而且洗礼是奉父、子、圣灵的名施行的。
- start: 936.793
  end: 947.753
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Along with the use of water, the naming of the Trinity in this way and only in this way is the criterion for a valid baptism.
  zh: 除了使用水，以这种方式且只能以这种方式呼求三位一体的名是有效洗礼的标准。
- start: 947.753
  end: 960.393
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Now if you're wondering why it must be only this Trinitarian formula, check out my episodes seven and eight on modalism and on the positive contributions of Novatian.
  zh: 如果你想知道为什么必须只用这个三位一体的程式，请查看我的第七集和第八集，关于形态论和诺瓦天的积极贡献。
- start: 960.393
  end: 964.153
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: So it's not about who does the baptism.
  zh: 所以这不是关于谁施行洗礼。
- start: 964.153
  end: 969.033
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: In fact, there are occasions when a layperson can validly baptize.
  zh: 事实上，在某些情况下，平信徒也可以有效地施洗。
- start: 969.033
  end: 984.811
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: For example, in an emergency.No, it's about into whom is the person baptized, and a valid baptism is one in which the recipient is baptized into the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
  zh: 比如在紧急情况下。不，这是关于受洗者归入谁，有效的洗礼是接受者奉父、子、圣灵的名受洗。
- start: 984.811
  end: 996.931
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: In the end, Stephen would say that re-baptism is exactly what schismatics do, and by practicing re-baptism you make yourself a schismatic.
  zh: 最后，斯德望会说重洗礼正是分裂者所做的，通过实行重洗礼你使自己成为分裂者。
- start: 996.931
  end: 1008.331
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Well, the other Church Father that greatly contributed to the clarification of all this was, of course, Saint Augustine, Bishop of Hippo Regius in North Africa.
  zh: 另一位对澄清这一切有重大贡献的教父当然是北非希波的主教圣奥古斯丁。
- start: 1008.331
  end: 1012.411
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: He opposed the Donatists in the early 5th century.
  zh: 他在五世纪初反对多纳图派。
- start: 1012.411
  end: 1021.572
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: He wrote theological treatises against the Donatists, exposing their errors and explaining the correct teachings of the Catholic Church.
  zh: 他写了反对多纳图派的神学论文，揭露他们的错误并解释大公教会的正确教导。
- start: 1021.572
  end: 1033.611
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Augustine corrected the Donatists on, among other things, their ecclesiology, and Augustine had, of course, the correct understanding of the church and her sacraments.
  zh: 奥古斯丁纠正了多纳图派的诸多错误，包括他们的教会论，而奥古斯丁当然对教会及其圣事有正确的理解。
- start: 1033.611
  end: 1039.391
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: The church is not an enclave of the pure to be protected from the impure.
  zh: 教会不是一个需要保护纯洁者免受不纯者影响的飞地。
- start: 1039.391
  end: 1051.531
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: The church is a hospital that welcomes everyone, for everyone needs healing, and so that everyone can receive the medicine of the sacraments.
  zh: 教会是一所欢迎所有人的医院，因为每个人都需要医治，所以每个人都能接受圣事的医治。
- start: 1051.531
  end: 1062.131
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And so what the church teaches to this day about the sacraments was actually clarified in the aftermath of these controversies and schisms.
  zh: 因此教会直到今天关于圣事的教导实际上是在这些争议和分裂之后得到澄清的。
- start: 1062.131
  end: 1068.511
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: The conclusion of the Church Fathers is that the sacraments are works of God.
  zh: 教父们的结论是圣事是神的工作。
- start: 1068.511
  end: 1074.251
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: They are not works of humans that can be corrupted by sin in the presider.
  zh: 它们不是能被主持者的罪玷污的人的工作。
- start: 1074.251
  end: 1095.931
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And so if we were to ask, "What are the criteria for a valid baptism, that is, a baptism which cannot be repeated without offending God who was at work in the baptism?" well, first, the criteria for valid baptism have nothing to do with the holiness of the presider.
  zh: 所以如果我们要问：「什么是有效洗礼的标准，也就是说，如果重复这种洗礼会冒犯在洗礼中工作的神的洗礼？」首先，有效洗礼的标准与主持者的圣洁无关。
- start: 1095.931
  end: 1105.331
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Now I know you want your bishop or priest to be holy, but if he's in mortal sin, that does not invalidate the sacraments.
  zh: 我知道你希望你的主教或祭司是圣洁的，但如果他陷入大罪，那并不使圣事无效。
- start: 1105.331
  end: 1110.471
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: They work by the doing of them, ex opere operato.
  zh: 它们因其执行而有效，ex opere operato。
- start: 1110.471
  end: 1118.351
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Second, the criteria for valid baptism have nothing to do with the age of the recipient.
  zh: 其次，有效洗礼的标准与接受者的年龄无关。
- start: 1118.351
  end: 1130.851
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Infant and child baptism was always done in the church, and we can see whole households being baptized already in the New Testament, in Acts 11 and in First Corinthians 1.
  zh: 教会一直施行婴儿和儿童洗礼，我们在新约中已经可以看到整个家庭受洗的记载，在使徒行传11章和哥林多前书1章。
- start: 1130.851
  end: 1149.951
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And while it is assumed that a sacrament may lack efficacy if the recipient has no faith or is in opposition to the sacrament, in other words, you can't baptize someone against their will, the church has always accepted the reality of vicarious faith.
  zh: 虽然人们认为如果接受者没有信仰或反对圣事，圣事可能缺乏效力，换句话说，你不能违背某人的意愿给他施洗，但教会一直接受代理信仰的现实。
- start: 1149.951
  end: 1155.891
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: That is, the faith of parents or sponsors counts for the infant or child.
  zh: 也就是说，父母或保证人的信仰可以代表婴儿或儿童。
- start: 1155.891
  end: 1172.451
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Also, it is not a requirement that the recipient understand the theology of baptism, or even the Christian faith to any certain level, because if it were, then people who are severely mentally challenged could not be baptized.
  zh: 此外，接受者理解洗礼神学或基督教信仰达到某种程度并不是必要条件，因为如果是这样，那么严重智力障碍的人就不能受洗了。
- start: 1172.451
  end: 1199.991
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Now sometimes you will hear people mention Tertullian, who seems to have advised the postponement of baptism, but he did that precisely because it could not be repeated, and so he thought that for some people, it might be wise to wait, not until they were older per se, but until they were ready to commit to a lifestyle of avoiding mortal sin.
  zh: 现在有时你会听到人们提到特土良，他似乎建议推迟洗礼，但他这样做正是因为洗礼不能重复，所以他认为对某些人来说，等待可能是明智的，不是等到他们年龄更大，而是等到他们准备好承诺过避免大罪的生活。
- start: 1199.991
  end: 1214.011
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: In any case, Tertullian is the outlier here, though later it would become more common for people to postpone their baptism, but not because they didn't believe in vicarious faith and infant baptism.
  zh: 无论如何，特土良在这里是个例外，虽然后来人们推迟洗礼变得更普遍，但不是因为他们不相信代理信仰和婴儿洗礼。
- start: 1214.011
  end: 1221.331
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: It was because they were worried that if they committed mortal sin after their baptism, they might lose their salvation.
  zh: 这是因为他们担心如果在受洗后犯了大罪，他们可能会失去救恩。
- start: 1221.331
  end: 1228.971
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Third, the criteria for valid baptism have nothing to do with how the water is applied.
  zh: 第三，有效洗礼的标准与水如何使用无关。
- start: 1228.971
  end: 1234.391
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Total immersion was the ideal, but by no means was it required.
  zh: 全身浸入是理想的，但绝不是必需的。
- start: 1234.391
  end: 1244.631
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Pouring water over the person's head was perfectly valid, and we see this already in the first century in the document known as the Didache.
  zh: 在人头上浇水是完全有效的，我们在一世纪的文献《十二使徒遗训》中就已经看到这一点。
- start: 1244.631
  end: 1268.571
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Now, of course, the element of water itself is required, but it wasn't a matter of how it was applied, and before long it's assumed that no baptism would have been done without the sign of the cross and the anointing with oil, though in the earliest centuries of the church, there was some variety in how or when the oil was applied.
  zh: 当然，水本身这个要素是必需的，但这不是关于如何使用的问题，不久就假定没有洗礼会在没有画十字圣号和傅油的情况下进行，虽然在教会最早的几个世纪，在如何或何时使用油方面有一些变化。
- start: 1268.571
  end: 1281.051
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: But for all intents and purposes, the one criterion that determined whether a baptism is valid is that it must be done in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
  zh: 但实际上，决定洗礼是否有效的唯一标准是它必须奉父、子、圣灵的名施行。
- start: 1281.051
  end: 1292.451
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: The name of the Trinity, and pronounced only that way, is what matters, because that's what determines what God a person is baptized into.
  zh: 三位一体的名字，而且只能这样宣称，这才是重要的，因为这决定了一个人是归入哪一位神。
- start: 1292.451
  end: 1305.951
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Now you may not be aware of this, but when a Christian is baptized, he or she is not baptized into the Catholic Church per se, or into any particular ecclesial communion or denomination.
  zh: 你可能不知道，当一个基督徒受洗时，他或她并不是受洗归入大公教会本身，或任何特定的教会团体或宗派。
- start: 1305.951
  end: 1311.691
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: A person is baptized into the universal and mystical body of Christ.
  zh: 一个人是受洗归入基督普世的奥秘身体。
- start: 1311.691
  end: 1328.071
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: As both the scriptures and our creed affirm, there is only one baptism, and this is why if you got baptized by the Lutherans, for example, and later you became Catholic, you do not need to be re-baptized.
  zh: 正如圣经和我们的信经所确认的，只有一个洗礼，这就是为什么如果你是由路德宗施洗的，后来你成为公教徒，你不需要重新受洗。
- start: 1328.071
  end: 1337.971
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: As long as your baptism was in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that is a valid baptism and it cannot be repeated.
  zh: 只要你的洗礼是奉父、子、圣灵的名施行的，那就是有效的洗礼，不能重复。
- start: 1337.971
  end: 1366.131
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Now the church does have a concession for when we don't know whether a person was validly baptized, and so we can do provisional baptisms, which is to say we have a ritual for when only God will know whether it is a baptism, in the case of someone who was not validly baptized, or whether it is simply a remembrance of baptism, in the case of someone who was validly baptized.
  zh: 现在教会确实对我们不知道一个人是否有效受洗的情况有所让步，所以我们可以进行有条件的洗礼，也就是说，我们有一个仪式，只有神知道这是否是洗礼（对于没有有效受洗的人），或者这只是对洗礼的纪念（对于已经有效受洗的人）。
- start: 1366.131
  end: 1378.991
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: But if it is known that someone was validly baptized, and that person is re-baptized because of some other factor, that is the heresy of re-baptism.
  zh: 但如果已知某人有效受洗，而这个人因为其他因素而重新受洗，这就是重洗礼的异端。
- start: 1378.991
  end: 1392.671
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Any baptism done correctly is valid, and any attempt at re-baptism after a valid baptism is a heresy as well as an act of schism against the body of Christ.
  zh: 任何正确施行的洗礼都是有效的，任何在有效洗礼之后试图重新施洗的行为都是异端，也是对基督身体的分裂行为。
- start: 1392.671
  end: 1407.571
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: In the end, both the Regional Council of Arles in the year 314 AD and the Ecumenical Council of Nicaea in 325 condemned the practice of re-baptism.
  zh: 最终，公元314年的阿尔勒地区会议和325年的尼西亚大公会议都谴责了重洗礼的做法。
- start: 1407.571
  end: 1413.571
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Here's a quote from Canon 8 of the Council of Arles.
  zh: 这是阿尔勒会议第八条法令的引文。
- start: 1413.571
  end: 1430.831
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: '"If anyone come to the church from a heresy, let them ask him the creed, and if it shall appear certain that he was baptized in the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, let him receive only the laying on of hands that he may receive the Holy Spirit.'
  zh: 「如果有人从异端来到教会，让他们问他信经，如果确定他是奉父、子、圣灵的名受洗的，让他只接受按手礼以领受圣灵。
- start: 1430.831
  end: 1442.871
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: But if when he is asked, his reply does not contain this trinity, let him be baptized." So who are the modern Donatists?
  zh: 但如果当他被问到时，他的回答不包含这三位一体，就让他受洗。」那么，谁是现代的多纳图派？
- start: 1442.871
  end: 1455.205
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Well, anyone who re-baptizes those who were already validly baptized, any Protestant denomination that re-baptizes other Christians....
  zh: 任何给已经有效受洗的人重新施洗的人，任何给其他基督徒重新施洗的新教宗派……
- start: 1455.205
  end: 1466.725
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: whether because they only recognize adult baptism, or they only recognize full-immersion baptism, or because they are separatists and don't recognize any other baptisms.
  zh: 无论是因为他们只承认成人洗礼，还是只承认全身浸入的洗礼，或者因为他们是分离主义者而不承认任何其他洗礼。
- start: 1466.725
  end: 1472.325
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: If they do any of that, they are practicing the heresy of the Donatists.
  zh: 如果他们做这些事，他们就是在实行多纳图派的异端。
- start: 1472.325
  end: 1487.585
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Now, to be clear, simply waiting until someone is an adult to be baptized is not in itself a heresy, though I will talk more about this in a later episode in the context of Pelagianism.
  zh: 现在要明确的是，仅仅等到某人成年才施洗本身并不是异端，虽然我会在后面关于伯拉纠主义的一集中更多地讨论这个问题。
- start: 1487.585
  end: 1495.745
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: But to re-baptize is an insult to God, who was at work in the original baptism.
  zh: 但重新施洗是对神的侮辱，因为神在原来的洗礼中工作。
- start: 1495.745
  end: 1509.925
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And if blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is defined as ascribing the work of God to some entity other than God, then re-baptism is a kind of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 如果亵渎圣灵被定义为把神的工作归于神以外的实体，那么重洗礼就是一种亵渎圣灵的行为。
- start: 1509.925
  end: 1528.525
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: It's kind of ironic that while the historic church taught that baptism regenerates but salvation can be lost, some of the Protestant Reformers taught the opposite, that baptism does not regenerate, but salvation cannot be lost.
  zh: 具有讽刺意味的是，历史上的教会教导洗礼使人重生但救恩可能失去，而一些新教改革者却教导相反的观点，即洗礼不使人重生，但救恩不会失去。
- start: 1528.525
  end: 1547.105
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: We'll go deeper into that in a future episode, but for now it's important to understand that baptism was always believed to be the beginning of a journey, a journey of sanctification leading to salvation, but with no guarantees.
  zh: 我们将在未来的一集中深入探讨这个问题，但现在重要的是要理解，洗礼一直被认为是一个旅程的开始，一个通向救恩的成圣之旅，但没有保证。
- start: 1547.105
  end: 1555.545
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: It requires perseverance, and so as I always say, baptism is a clean slate, but it's not a free ride.
  zh: 它需要持守，所以正如我常说的，洗礼是一个清白的开始，但不是免费的搭乘。
- start: 1555.545
  end: 1575.585
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: That is to say, baptism only washes away original sin and whatever personal sin a person may have committed up until the moment of baptism, but no one before the Protestant Reformation ever taught or believed that baptism could wash away the sins you hadn't committed yet.
  zh: 也就是说，洗礼只洗去原罪和一个人在受洗时刻之前可能犯下的本罪，但在新教改革之前，没有人教导或相信洗礼能洗去你还没有犯的罪。
- start: 1575.585
  end: 1581.145
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And so there was no once saved, always saved doctrine.
  zh: 因此没有一次得救永远得救的教义。
- start: 1581.145
  end: 1592.105
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: So it's an incorrect theology of baptism to present baptism as simply the public statement of a faith previously accepted.
  zh: 所以把洗礼仅仅表述为对先前接受的信仰的公开声明是不正确的洗礼神学。
- start: 1592.105
  end: 1597.405
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Now, this is not a perfect analogy, but you could think of it this way.
  zh: 这不是一个完美的类比，但你可以这样想。
- start: 1597.405
  end: 1614.365
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Novatian's Schism was recognized at the Council of Nicaea as legitimately Christian in much the same way that we might now recognize many of the Protestant denominations or Eastern Orthodox communions.
  zh: 诺瓦天的分裂在尼西亚会议上被认可为合法的基督教，就像我们现在可能承认许多新教宗派或东正教团体一样。
- start: 1614.365
  end: 1616.985
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: They are Christian, but not Catholic.
  zh: 他们是基督徒，但不是公教徒。
- start: 1616.985
  end: 1630.625
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And the practical demonstration of this recognition is that people baptized in those communions or denominations do not get re-baptized if they become Catholic, for example, at the Easter vigil.
  zh: 这种认可的实际表现是，在这些团体或宗派受洗的人如果成为公教徒，例如在复活节守夜礼时，不需要重新受洗。
- start: 1630.625
  end: 1662.445
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: The Donatists, however, are significantly farther out from the center of the church, and so they might be analogous to the more separatist fundamentalists who don't recognize our baptism as valid, or perhaps the Sedevacantists who don't recognize the legitimacy of our pope and our bishops, especially those who reordain any clergy who join them, or even some of the Eastern Orthodox who would re-baptize Catholics.
  zh: 然而，多纳图派与教会的中心相距更远，所以他们可能类似于那些不承认我们洗礼有效的分离主义基要派，或者可能是那些不承认我们的教宗和主教合法性的空位论者，特别是那些给加入他们的任何神职人员重新授予圣职的人，甚至是那些会给公教徒重新施洗的一些东正教徒。
- start: 1662.445
  end: 1698.665
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: And so to make anything other than the name of the Trinity the issue, including disagreements over ecclesiology or sacramental theology, or to make things like the age of the recipient, or the method of applying water, or even the holiness of the presider criteria for the validity of baptism, to do any of that is to imply that baptism is a human work and not a work of God, and that is to fall into the heresy of the Donatists, the heresy of re-baptism.
  zh: 因此，把三位一体的名字以外的任何事情作为问题，包括对教会论或圣事神学的分歧，或把接受者的年龄、使用水的方法，甚至主持者的圣洁作为洗礼有效性的标准，这样做就是暗示洗礼是人的工作而不是神的工作，这就是陷入多纳图派的异端，重洗礼的异端。
- start: 1698.665
  end: 1705.025
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Next time on The Way of the Fathers, the heresy you've all been waiting for, Arianism.
  zh: 下次的《教父之路》，是你们一直在等待的异端，阿里乌主义。
- start: 1705.025
  end: 1706.725
  speaker: speaker_1
  en: Thanks for listening.
  zh: 感谢收听。
- start: 1737.125
  end: 1740.565
  speaker: speaker_2
  en: Way of the Fathers is a production of catholicculture.org.
  zh: 《教父之路》是catholicculture.org的制作。
- start: 1740.565
  end: 1756.545
  speaker: speaker_2
  en: Check out our other podcasts, including Catholic Culture Audiobooks, bringing to life classic Catholic writings, Criteria, the Catholic film podcast, featuring deep analysis of great films from a Catholic perspective, and the Catholic Culture podcast, an interview show exploring Catholic arts, culture, and issues.
  zh: 请查看我们的其他播客，包括公教文化有声书，为经典公教著作注入生命，《标准》，公教电影播客，从公教角度深入分析优秀电影，以及公教文化播客，一个探索公教艺术、文化和议题的访谈节目。
- start: 1756.545
  end: 1763.325
  speaker: speaker_2
  en: You'll find all of this, as well as Catholic news, commentary, liturgical year resources, and much more at catholicculture.org.
  zh: 你可以在catholicculture.org找到所有这些内容，以及公教新闻、评论、礼仪年历资源等更多内容。
