- start: 1.7730000000000001
  end: 3.253
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Oh, this is incredible.
  zh: 哦，这太不可思议了。
- start: 6.054
  end: 8.074
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Welcome, Cathedral to Magdelene.
  zh: 欢迎，抹大拉人大教堂。
- start: 8.654
  end: 9.374
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Hey, I'm Matt.
  zh: 嗨，我是马特。
- start: 9.374
  end: 10.515
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This is the 10-Minute Bible Hour.
  zh: 这是「十分钟圣经时间」。
- start: 10.515
  end: 17.076
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And whether you're into the whole Christianity thing or not, I bet you've heard of Roman Catholicism and Protestantism.
  zh: 无论你是否对基督教感兴趣，我敢打赌你一定听说过罗马天主教和新教。
- start: 17.076
  end: 20.336
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: These are two different expressions of Christian faith.
  zh: 这是基督教信仰的两种不同表达形式。
- start: 20.336
  end: 23.717
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They're kind of two of the three really big ones historically.
  zh: 它们在历史上算是三大主要基督教派别中的两个。
- start: 23.717
  end: 30.538
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And Protestantism is about a 500-year-old expression that was born out of Roman Catholicism.
  zh: 而新教是一个大约有500年历史的信仰表达形式，它源自罗马天主教。
- start: 30.538
  end: 34.759
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Some  Theological issues were percolating and people were debating them.
  zh: 当时一些神学问题正在酝酿，人们对这些问题展开辩论。
- start: 34.759
  end: 39.5
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And ultimately, these two groups ended up deciding, we're just doing different things here.
  zh: 最终，这两个群体决定，我们在这里做的是不同的事情。
- start: 39.5
  end: 40.52
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We think different stuff.
  zh: 我们的想法不同。
- start: 40.52
  end: 42.42
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And there's this parting of ways.
  zh: 于是就有了这种分道扬镳。
- start: 42.5
  end: 49.181
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So like your Lutherans, your Methodists, your Baptists, these are all different types of Protestants.
  zh: 所以像路德宗、循道宗、浸信会，这些都是不同类型的新教徒。
- start: 49.221
  end: 54.442
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Whereas Roman Catholicism continues to be kind of a singular monolithic thing.
  zh: 而罗马天主教则继续保持一种单一的整体形式。
- start: 54.442
  end: 58.743
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I've always had pretty good relationships with Roman Catholics.
  zh: 我一直与罗马天主教徒保持着很好的关系。
- start: 59.063
  end: 73.334
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I've always had pretty high regard for Roman Catholicism, but it occurred to me the other day that pretty much everything I know about Roman Catholicism has been taught to me, told to me, explained to me by other Protestants.
  zh: 我一直对罗马天主教抱有相当高的敬意，但前几天我突然意识到，我所了解的关于罗马天主教的几乎一切都是由其他新教徒教给我的、告诉我的、向我解释的。
- start: 74.435
  end: 87.265
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But, you know, at some point, it'd be pretty cool to go and hear what Roman Catholics think and see what they do by talking to an actual Roman Catholic in an actual Roman Catholic church.
  zh: 但是，你知道，在某种程度上，去听听罗马天主教徒的想法，通过与一位真正的罗马天主教徒在一座真正的罗马天主教堂中交谈来了解他们的所作所为，这会很酷。
- start: 87.265
  end: 97.833
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So,  I put out feelers with a whole bunch of different churches, and one got back to me called the Cathedral of the Magdelene in Salt Lake City, which is actually secretly who I was really hoping would get back to me.
  zh: 所以，我联系了一大批不同的教堂，其中有一个回复了我，那就是盐湖城的抹大拉人大教堂，实际上这正是我暗自希望能回复我的地方。
- start: 98.014
  end: 105.682
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And they were kind enough to take a flyer on some Protestant stranger from the Internet and invite me there with a camera to see what happens.
  zh: 他们很友善地接受了来自互联网的一个陌生新教徒，并邀请我带着摄像机去那里看看会发生什么。
- start: 105.682
  end: 110.586
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So I went, I met with Father Martin Diaz, and, well, here's what happened.
  zh: 所以我去了，我与马丁·迪亚兹神父会面，然后，这就是发生的事情。
- start: 111.808
  end: 111.948
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Hello.
  zh: 你好。
- start: 111.948
  end: 112.435
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Hello.
  zh: 你好。
- start: 112.435
  end: 113.215
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Father Diaz?
  zh: 迪亚兹神父？
- start: 113.215
  end: 114.595
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Hi! Am I saying that right?
  zh: 嗨！我说得对吗？
- start: 114.595
  end: 114.916
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yes.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 114.916
  end: 115.896
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Father is the correct title?
  zh: 「神父」是正确的称呼吗？
- start: 115.896
  end: 116.736
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: That's the correct title.
  zh: 那是正确的称呼。
- start: 116.736
  end: 117.056
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: All right.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 117.056
  end: 117.476
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Thank you.
  zh: 谢谢。
- start: 117.476
  end: 117.796
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Thank you.
  zh: 谢谢。
- start: 117.796
  end: 118.616
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm Matt Whitman.
  zh: 我是马特·惠特曼。
- start: 118.616
  end: 119.356
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Nice to meet you, sir.
  zh: 很高兴见到你，先生。
- start: 119.356
  end: 120.237
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Matt, great to meet you.
  zh: 马特，很高兴见到你。
- start: 120.237
  end: 121.937
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm walking in here clueless.
  zh: 我进来的时候一无所知。
- start: 121.937
  end: 123.537
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I have a billion things to learn.
  zh: 我有数不清的东西要学。
- start: 123.677
  end: 128.118
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And the first thing that I see as I walk up is that the front of your church looks a lot different than the front of my church.
  zh: 当我走进来时，我看到的第一件事是你们教堂的正面与我的教堂的正面看起来很不一样。
- start: 128.118
  end: 130.178
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Can you just walk me through what this means?
  zh: 你能给我讲解一下这意味着什么吗？
- start: 130.459
  end: 132.079
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: This is called a tympanum.
  zh: 这被称为门楣浮雕。
- start: 132.079
  end: 132.679
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 132.679
  end: 135.16
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And, of course, the crucifix there.
  zh: 当然，那里有十字架。
- start: 135.16
  end: 136.98
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And you have Jesus in front.
  zh: 前面是耶稣。
- start: 137.04
  end: 142.601
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And this is Jesus, the high priest, or Jesus Christ, the king.
  zh: 这是耶稣，大祭司，或者说是耶稣基督，君王。
- start: 143.496
  end: 147.117
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: The idea, of course, is that you're being welcomed by Christ.
  zh: 当然，这个概念是你被基督欢迎。
- start: 147.117
  end: 156.242
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Christ is sitting on top of the world, and so that coming into Christ, who is the universal salvation.
  zh: 基督坐在世界之上，因此进入基督，他是普世的救恩。
- start: 156.242
  end: 160.985
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Are those, like, straight-up Notre Dame-style gargoyles up there?
  zh: 那些是不是像巴黎圣母院风格的正宗石像鬼？
- start: 161.145
  end: 162.625
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: They're actually fake now.
  zh: 它们现在其实是假的。
- start: 162.686
  end: 163.946
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Oh, they are?
  zh: 哦，是吗？
- start: 164.347
  end: 166.728
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So they deteriorated so much.
  zh: 所以它们已经严重损坏了。
- start: 167.409
  end: 179.535
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: from 1909 to 1993 when we did the restoration, that they were taken down and fashioned out of concrete and then put back up.
  zh: 从1909年到1993年我们进行修复时，它们被拆下来，用混凝土重新制作，然后再装回去。
- start: 179.535
  end: 181.676
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So they do not work as gargoyles.
  zh: 所以它们不再具有石像鬼的功能。
- start: 181.676
  end: 183.537
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Gargoyles are downspouts.
  zh: 石像鬼是排水管。
- start: 183.537
  end: 188.32
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, or they can look like that, like griffins and like some of the gargoyles that can even look kind of like demonic.
  zh: 是的，或者它们看起来像那样，像鹰头狮或者一些石像鬼甚至看起来有点像恶魔。
- start: 188.32
  end: 191.181
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Yeah, to keep away the evil, kind of scare off the evil.
  zh: 是的，为了驱邪，有点像吓跑邪恶的东西。
- start: 191.201
  end: 196.543
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, so that's kind of a leftover from like European folklore and stuff like that.
  zh: 好的，所以那有点像欧洲民间传说之类的遗留物。
- start: 196.543
  end: 199.524
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, I'm glad you stuck with it because they're incredible.
  zh: 嗯，我很高兴你们保留了它们，因为它们确实令人惊叹。
- start: 199.545
  end: 201.826
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, so this stained glass window up here that I'm looking at...
  zh: 好的，所以我正在看的这个彩色玻璃窗...
- start: 201.826
  end: 202.826
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The rose window.
  zh: 玫瑰窗。
- start: 202.826
  end: 204.147
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It is called the rose window.
  zh: 它被称为玫瑰窗。
- start: 204.147
  end: 205.087
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's like Notre Dame.
  zh: 它就像巴黎圣母院的一样。
- start: 205.087
  end: 205.567
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Yes.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 205.567
  end: 208.348
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: They're all called rose windows if they're round.
  zh: 如果它们是圆形的，它们都被称为玫瑰窗。
- start: 208.629
  end: 213.09
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Oh! Yes, so the round rose petal.
  zh: 哦！是的，所以是圆形的玫瑰花瓣。
- start: 213.09
  end: 217.072
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And the idea of that is the rose petal.
  zh: 而且它的概念就是玫瑰花瓣。
- start: 217.216
  end: 219.217
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So that's why it's called a rose window.
  zh: 所以这就是为什么它被称为玫瑰窗。
- start: 219.357
  end: 220.398
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: See, I'm already learning things.
  zh: 看，我已经开始学到东西了。
- start: 220.398
  end: 225.321
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I thought it was just like some special nickname that was like the special unique thing for just this one place.
  zh: 我以为它只是一个特殊的昵称，就像是这个地方特有的独特东西。
- start: 225.321
  end: 226.922
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Like rose color or something, but no.
  zh: 像玫瑰色或者什么的，但不是。
- start: 226.922
  end: 229.164
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: See, this is why you ask questions.
  zh: 看，这就是为什么你要提问。
- start: 229.244
  end: 236.829
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I guess you have to have a building that can support that big of an, you know, that size of an open space in order to accommodate that kind of stained glass.
  zh: 我猜你必须有一个建筑能够支撑那么大的，你知道，那种尺寸的开放空间，以容纳那种彩色玻璃。
- start: 236.829
  end: 237.369
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Right.
  zh: 对。
- start: 237.369
  end: 238.87
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Is there stained glass inside too?
  zh: 里面也有彩色玻璃吗？
- start: 238.87
  end: 239.511
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Yes.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 239.511
  end: 240.271
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Can we go poke around?
  zh: 我们可以去四处看看吗？
- start: 240.271
  end: 240.711
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Sure.
  zh: 当然。
- start: 240.711
  end: 241.312
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: All right, let's do it.
  zh: 好的，我们走吧。
- start: 241.312
  end: 242.252
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Let's go.
  zh: 我们走。
- start: 243.413
  end: 244.974
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Welcome Cathedral to Magdelene.
  zh: 欢迎，抹大拉人大教堂。
- start: 244.974
  end: 246.335
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Welcome.
  zh: 欢迎。
- start: 247.97
  end: 249.031
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Be stunning.
  zh: 太壮观了。
- start: 249.031
  end: 255.095
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Angels at the top and down here the ground and the earth here at the bottom.
  zh: 顶部是天使，下面是这里的地面，底部是大地。
- start: 255.095
  end: 256.596
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: How long did it take to make this?
  zh: 建造这个花了多长时间？
- start: 256.596
  end: 258.998
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So it took 10 years to build the cathedral.
  zh: 所以建造这座大教堂花了10年时间。
- start: 258.998
  end: 266.904
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It was started in 1899 and was completed in 1909. Where do I even start?
  zh: 它始建于1899年，完工于1909年。我该从哪里开始呢？
- start: 266.904
  end: 269.826
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's so much going on in here in terms of imagery.
  zh: 这里有太多的图像内容。
- start: 270.086
  end: 275.629
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Maybe you could just walk me through the stained glass and what these represent and the story behind them to start with.
  zh: 也许你可以先带我了解一下这些彩色玻璃，它们代表什么，以及它们背后的故事。
- start: 275.629
  end: 277.53
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Where do we start with this thing?
  zh: 我们从哪里开始讲解这个呢？
- start: 279.493
  end: 284.877
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: The side windows are the mysteries of the rosary.
  zh: 侧面的窗户是玫瑰经的奥秘。
- start: 285.018
  end: 299.291
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So it starts with the angel with Mary, Mary going to Elizabeth, Mary and Joseph, the birth of Jesus, the presentation in the temple, and then Jesus at 12 years old in the temple.
  zh: 所以它从天使与马利亚、马利亚拜访伊丽莎白、马利亚和约瑟、耶稣的诞生、在圣殿中的奉献礼开始，然后是12岁的耶稣在圣殿中。
- start: 299.752
  end: 303.973
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: On this side, then, the three mysteries of the Rosary that are not in the Bible.
  zh: 在这一侧，然后是玫瑰经中三个不在圣经中的奥秘。
- start: 303.973
  end: 309.094
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: This mystery is the Holy Spirit coming upon the Apostles, the Pentecost.
  zh: 这个奥秘是圣灵降临在使徒身上，五旬节。
- start: 309.094
  end: 313.975
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And then the last two, Mary taken into heaven, and Mary crowned as Queen of Heaven and Earth.
  zh: 然后是最后两个，马利亚被接升天，以及马利亚被加冕为天地之后。
- start: 313.975
  end: 316.895
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So that's the mysteries of the Rosary.
  zh: 所以这就是玫瑰经的奥秘。
- start: 316.935
  end: 322.096
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And the rose window, again, rose windows are classical in this kind of a cathedral.
  zh: 还有玫瑰窗，再次强调，玫瑰窗在这种大教堂中是经典的设计。
- start: 322.136
  end: 328.012
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: In the center is St. Cecilia, and she is known for music.
  zh: 中心是圣西西莉亚，她以音乐著称。
- start: 328.012
  end: 333.834
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So she's depicted with kind of a rudimentary organ because that's where the organ loft is.
  zh: 所以她被描绘成拿着一种初级的风琴，因为那里是风琴阁楼所在的位置。
- start: 333.834
  end: 339.056
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So St. Cecilia is the patron saint of music and that's why she's in there.
  zh: 所以圣西西莉亚是音乐的守护圣人，这就是为什么她在那里的原因。
- start: 339.076
  end: 341.277
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm learning stuff.
  zh: 我在学习东西。
- start: 341.277
  end: 346.639
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Foo Fighters have an album or a song called St. Cecilia and I had no idea how they pick on that.
  zh: 福斗士乐队有一张专辑或一首歌叫《圣西西莉亚》，我之前完全不知道他们为什么选这个名字。
- start: 346.639
  end: 347.139
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now I get it.
  zh: 现在我明白了。
- start: 347.139
  end: 350.56
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm learning things about rock music from your rose window.
  zh: 我从你们的玫瑰窗中学到了关于摇滚音乐的知识。
- start: 351.381
  end: 355.642
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Kind of the masterpiece, if you will, is in the act.
  zh: 如果你愿意，可以说这种杰作就在于行动中。
- start: 355.762
  end: 361.12
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So Jesus is  Divine, 100% divine, 100% human.
  zh: 所以耶稣具有神性，百分之百神性，百分之百人性。
- start: 361.26
  end: 364.962
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So it's earth, humankind, and divinity.
  zh: 所以是大地、人类和神性。
- start: 364.962
  end: 368.883
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It's the sky, the heavens, and the earth coming together.
  zh: 是天空、天堂和大地汇聚在一起。
- start: 368.883
  end: 376.906
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: You're entering sacred space, which is where you, even though we're grounded on earth, are touching heaven.
  zh: 你正在进入神圣空间，在那里，即使我们脚踏大地，也能触及天堂。
- start: 377.166
  end: 382.208
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So for us, the Eucharist is three events in one.
  zh: 所以对我们来说，圣餐是三个事件合而为一。
- start: 382.488
  end: 385.109
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So it's the Last Supper.
  zh: 它是最后的晚餐。
- start: 385.489
  end: 388.928
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So every mass is  the Last Supper.
  zh: 所以每一台弥撒都是最后的晚餐。
- start: 389.408
  end: 398.071
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Every Mass is in the present moment, and every Mass is the banquet in heaven.
  zh: 每一台弥撒都在当下，每一台弥撒都是天上的盛宴。
- start: 398.071
  end: 402.512
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You're saying that word, is, with tremendous emphasis.
  zh: 你说那个词「是」，带着极大的强调。
- start: 402.512
  end: 403.672
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It is.
  zh: 确实如此。
- start: 404.692
  end: 405.972
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: There's only one event.
  zh: 只有一个事件。
- start: 405.972
  end: 407.353
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: There's only one sacrifice.
  zh: 只有一次献祭。
- start: 407.353
  end: 409.513
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's not a repetition of that event.
  zh: 它不是那个事件的重复。
- start: 409.513
  end: 410.634
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It's not a recollection.
  zh: 它不是追忆。
- start: 410.634
  end: 413.514
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's an atemporal version of that event.
  zh: 它是那个事件的超时间版本。
- start: 413.514
  end: 415.275
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It is the Last Supper.
  zh: 它就是最后的晚餐。
- start: 415.275
  end: 417.075
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: There's only one sacrifice.
  zh: 只有一次献祭。
- start: 417.857
  end: 421.799
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do you see my Protestant brain trying to wrap it?
  zh: 你看到我这个新教徒的大脑在努力理解吗？
- start: 421.799
  end: 422.9
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Right.
  zh: 对。
- start: 422.94
  end: 424.2
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So it's the cross.
  zh: 所以是十字架。
- start: 424.681
  end: 426.622
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: He only died once for all.
  zh: 他只为所有人死了一次。
- start: 426.882
  end: 427.903
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Once for all.
  zh: 一次而永远。
- start: 428.303
  end: 433.646
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And the Last Supper is the unbloody sacrifice of the cross.
  zh: 而最后的晚餐是十字架的无血献祭。
- start: 434.667
  end: 435.407
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Fascinating.
  zh: 太迷人了。
- start: 435.407
  end: 439.389
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So this is my body, this is my blood, which is offered on the cross.
  zh: 所以这是我的身体，这是我的血，在十字架上献出。
- start: 439.389
  end: 442.851
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It's his body and blood that redeems us.
  zh: 是他的身体和血救赎了我们。
- start: 442.991
  end: 443.612
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: His death.
  zh: 他的死亡。
- start: 443.612
  end: 453.794
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And so every time we have Mass,  Heaven and Earth come together, whether you're in the Cathedral of the Madeleine or, you know, in a... So it's all one mass.
  zh: 所以每次我们举行弥撒，天堂和大地就融合在一起，无论你是在抹大拉人大教堂，还是，你知道，在一个…所以这都是一台弥撒。
- start: 453.794
  end: 455.294
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It's all one mass.
  zh: 这都是一台弥撒。
- start: 455.575
  end: 455.835
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 455.835
  end: 457.195
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: All one event.
  zh: 都是一个事件。
- start: 457.195
  end: 458.876
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But it's outside of our...
  zh: 但它超出了我们的…
- start: 458.876
  end: 461.057
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So we left the world behind.
  zh: 所以我们把世界抛在脑后。
- start: 461.057
  end: 462.838
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: We left time and space.
  zh: 我们超越了时间和空间。
- start: 463.576
  end: 465.278
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: We left our world outside.
  zh: 我们把我们的世界留在外面。
- start: 465.278
  end: 480.977
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And whether we're in this space or we're in a village someplace in Cambodia or Africa or whatever country that would be, it's the same heaven and earth coming together.
  zh: 无论我们是在这个空间，还是在柬埔寨或非洲的某个村庄，或者任何其他国家，都是同样的天堂和大地融合在一起。
- start: 480.977
  end: 485.18
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And so our architecture and art,  Help to depict that.
  zh: 所以我们的建筑和艺术，有助于描绘这一点。
- start: 485.18
  end: 485.661
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 485.661
  end: 487.382
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Help us to understand that.
  zh: 帮助我们理解这一点。
- start: 487.382
  end: 488.483
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But it's not necessary.
  zh: 但这不是必需的。
- start: 488.483
  end: 489.484
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Does that make sense?
  zh: 这有道理吗？
- start: 489.484
  end: 490.045
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 490.045
  end: 494.269
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I want to go all the way down the rabbit hole with you on the mechanics of that.
  zh: 我想和你一起彻底深入了解其中的机制。
- start: 494.269
  end: 498.132
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Maybe when we sit down, I can pick your brain more about how that happens.
  zh: 也许当我们坐下来时，我可以更多地向你请教这是如何发生的。
- start: 498.192
  end: 501.855
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So this is a cruciform church.
  zh: 所以这是一座十字形教堂。
- start: 501.855
  end: 502.616
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 502.616
  end: 503.157
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 503.157
  end: 508.281
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So you've got the crucifix up there, and then this is a crucifix.
  zh: 所以你在那里有十字架，然后这是一个十字架。
- start: 509.531
  end: 516.855
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So the altar in this, so this is architectural for this church, not, the altar doesn't have to be here.
  zh: 所以这个中的祭坛，这是这个教堂的建筑特点，不是说祭坛必须在这里。
- start: 516.855
  end: 521.178
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But in this architecture, the altar is where the heart is.
  zh: 但在这种建筑中，祭坛就在心脏的位置。
- start: 521.178
  end: 527.321
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So the pouring out of God's love from his heart comes from the altar.
  zh: 所以神从他心中倾注的爱来自祭坛。
- start: 527.642
  end: 531.144
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So this is the gifts of grace flow from the altar.
  zh: 所以这是恩典的礼物从祭坛流出。
- start: 531.144
  end: 533.586
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And behind the heart is the head.
  zh: 而在心脏后面是头部。
- start: 533.586
  end: 539.569
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: In the cathedral, what makes the cathedral to be a cathedral is the chair, the cathedral.
  zh: 在大教堂中，使大教堂成为大教堂的是座椅，主教座椅。
- start: 540.439
  end: 543.74
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Every diocese has a cathedral with a cathedral.
  zh: 每个教区都有一座拥有主教座椅的大教堂。
- start: 543.74
  end: 544.721
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But not every church.
  zh: 但不是每个教会都有。
- start: 544.721
  end: 546.581
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Not every church, just cathedrals.
  zh: 不是每个教会都有，只有大教堂才有。
- start: 546.581
  end: 548.342
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: There's one in every diocese.
  zh: 每个教区都有一个。
- start: 548.342
  end: 549.022
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 549.022
  end: 552.203
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And so that's our chair for the diocese of Salt Lake City.
  zh: 所以那是我们盐湖城教区的主教座椅。
- start: 552.203
  end: 552.823
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Who sits in that chair?
  zh: 谁坐在那把椅子上？
- start: 552.823
  end: 555.784
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So that's uniquely the bishop of our diocese.
  zh: 那是专属于我们教区主教的。
- start: 555.964
  end: 558.025
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: That's his chair, uniquely.
  zh: 那是他独有的座椅。
- start: 558.025
  end: 563.067
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So the chair sits at the head because the head of our diocese is the bishop.
  zh: 所以这座椅放在头部位置，因为我们教区的首领是主教。
- start: 563.067
  end: 565.787
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So does he celebrate Mass weekly here?
  zh: 那么他每周都在这里举行弥撒吗？
- start: 565.787
  end: 566.748
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Is he around a lot?
  zh: 他经常在这里吗？
- start: 566.748
  end: 567.881
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How does that even work?
  zh: 这究竟是怎么运作的？
- start: 567.881
  end: 569.162
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Well, luckily he's not around a lot.
  zh: 嗯，幸运的是他不经常在这里。
- start: 569.162
  end: 571.085
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No. Forget that.
  zh: 不，忘了我说的吧。
- start: 571.085
  end: 580.255
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So he's here not every Sunday, but a lot of Sundays, and then the special celebrations that we have.
  zh: 所以他不是每个星期日都在这里，但很多星期日都在，还有我们举行的特别庆典时也会来。
- start: 580.255
  end: 582.978
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So does he conduct those services when he's here, or do you?
  zh: 那么他在这里时是他主持那些礼仪，还是你来主持？
- start: 582.978
  end: 583.759
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: No, he does.
  zh: 不，他来主持。
- start: 583.759
  end: 584.299
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 584.299
  end: 586.702
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It looks like a European coat of arms up above.
  zh: 上面看起来像欧洲的纹章。
- start: 586.702
  end: 586.962
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Correct.
  zh: 没错。
- start: 586.962
  end: 587.983
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What does this mean?
  zh: 这代表什么？
- start: 587.983
  end: 593.843
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So...  Each coat of arms is meant to pull something out of the area or the person.
  zh: 所以…每个纹章都是为了从地区或个人中提取一些特点。
- start: 593.843
  end: 599.749
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: This coat of arms is a three-part coat of arms coming out of who he is.
  zh: 这个纹章是一个三部分的纹章，反映了他的身份。
- start: 599.749
  end: 604.894
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And the saying underneath the motto changes from bishop to bishop.
  zh: 下面的格言会随着主教的不同而改变。
- start: 604.894
  end: 606.735
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It seems like there's a lot of moving parts.
  zh: 看起来有很多变动的部分。
- start: 606.735
  end: 609.118
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do you teach from here?
  zh: 你从这里教导吗？
- start: 609.118
  end: 612.7
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: The scripture is read from the anvil.
  zh: 经文是从讲道台宣读的。
- start: 612.861
  end: 614.322
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Only scripture...
  zh: 只有经文…
- start: 614.514
  end: 617.596
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: and sermons, homilies are given from there.
  zh: 和讲道、讲经是从那里进行的。
- start: 617.596
  end: 621.938
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: We feed on the word of God from the table of the ambo.
  zh: 我们从讲台的桌子上领受神的道。
- start: 622.218
  end: 623.739
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What does ambo mean?
  zh: ambo是什么意思？
- start: 623.859
  end: 624.699
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Pulpit.
  zh: 讲坛。
- start: 624.78
  end: 626.621
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It just means stand.
  zh: 它只是意味着站立处。
- start: 627.301
  end: 629.623
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Some fancy word in either Greek or Latin.
  zh: 是希腊语或拉丁语中的某个华丽词汇。
- start: 629.623
  end: 630.543
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That sounds good to me.
  zh: 这听起来不错。
- start: 630.543
  end: 632.624
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: I don't know.
  zh: 我不确定。
- start: 632.624
  end: 636.046
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So we talk about the two tables of the Eucharist.
  zh: 所以我们谈论圣餐的两张桌子。
- start: 636.186
  end: 637.947
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: You go back to Acts of the Apostles.
  zh: 你回到使徒行传。
- start: 637.947
  end: 639.048
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: What did they do?
  zh: 他们做了什么？
- start: 639.048
  end: 641.469
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: When they met for the breaking of the bread...
  zh: 当他们聚集擘饼时…
- start: 641.684
  end: 647.029
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: They read the scriptures, which of course for them was what we call the Old Testament, the Hebrew scriptures.
  zh: 他们诵读经文，当然对他们来说就是我们现在称为旧约的希伯来经文。
- start: 647.029
  end: 650.612
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: They read from the scriptures and the breaking of the bread.
  zh: 他们诵读经文并擘饼。
- start: 651.073
  end: 655.217
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So every mass is reading the scripture, breaking the bread.
  zh: 所以每台弥撒都是诵读经文，擘饼。
- start: 655.217
  end: 665.127
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So then if that's what you do in every mass and every mass is the same, then everyone is always taking communion, the Eucharist, together.
  zh: 那么如果这是你们在每台弥撒中所做的，而每台弥撒都是相同的，那么每个人总是一起领受共融，圣餐。
- start: 665.16
  end: 665.84
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Yes.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 665.84
  end: 672.163
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So we are at one, as Jesus says, may they all be one as the Father and I are one.
  zh: 所以我们合而为一，正如耶稣所说，愿他们都合而为一，像父与我合而为一。
- start: 672.183
  end: 674.844
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So in communion, we are one.
  zh: 所以在共融中，我们是合一的。
- start: 675.064
  end: 677.925
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Because it's a sacrament, it does what it says it does.
  zh: 因为它是一个圣事，它实现了它所表达的内容。
- start: 678.326
  end: 681.067
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It has a reality that's beyond your reality.
  zh: 它有一个超越你现实的实体。
- start: 681.447
  end: 682.868
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It makes you one.
  zh: 它使你合一。
- start: 683.388
  end: 685.969
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's almost like translating two languages from...
  zh: 这几乎就像是在翻译两种语言…
- start: 686.013
  end: 699.638
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: all of the language that I've been raised around my whole life and in, you know, the Protestant notion of symbolism, that we are, you know, this is a separate thing and we're commemorating an event that we would view as a singular event at the cross.
  zh: 所有我一生中所接触的语言，你知道，新教的象征主义观念，我们认为，你知道，这是一个独立的事物，我们纪念的是我们视为十字架上的一个单一事件。
- start: 699.698
  end: 702.34
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so it's fascinating.
  zh: 所以这很迷人。
- start: 702.34
  end: 708.822
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's pushing me and I appreciate the idea of the universality of that singular event because, well, of course the cross was one event.
  zh: 它在挑战我，我欣赏那个单一事件的普遍性的想法，因为，当然，十字架是一个事件。
- start: 708.882
  end: 714.902
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I've just never really thought about the Lord's Supper or the Eucharist being a singular event  as well.
  zh: 我只是从未真正想过圣餐也同样是一个单一事件。
- start: 714.902
  end: 715.983
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do you serve from here?
  zh: 你是从这里服侍的吗？
- start: 715.983
  end: 717.084
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: From any altar.
  zh: 从任何祭坛。
- start: 717.084
  end: 723.23
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And so the first part of the Mass, we have the chair for the prayers at the beginning.
  zh: 所以弥撒的第一部分，我们在开始时有座椅做祈祷。
- start: 723.371
  end: 727.174
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Then the scriptures, the sermon homily.
  zh: 然后是经文、讲道讲经。
- start: 727.315
  end: 730.798
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Then we move into the second part, which is the Eucharist.
  zh: 然后我们进入第二部分，即圣餐。
- start: 730.798
  end: 733.5
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So the bread and wine is prepared on the altar.
  zh: 所以饼和酒是在祭坛上准备的。
- start: 733.863
  end: 736.504
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Usually we have a procession with the bread and wine.
  zh: 通常我们会举行饼和酒的游行仪式。
- start: 736.704
  end: 742.266
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And then the Eucharistic prayer, the consecratory prayer, doing what Jesus did at the Last Supper.
  zh: 然后是圣餐祷告，祝圣祷告，做耶稣在最后晚餐上所做的事。
- start: 742.266
  end: 743.147
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: This is my body.
  zh: 这是我的身体。
- start: 743.147
  end: 744.487
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: This is my blood.
  zh: 这是我的血。
- start: 744.567
  end: 746.788
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So that all takes place on the altar.
  zh: 所以这一切都在祭坛上进行。
- start: 747.048
  end: 749.99
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And then that part is over.
  zh: 然后那部分结束了。
- start: 749.99
  end: 754.131
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: We move into the communion part, which starts with the Lord's Prayer.
  zh: 我们进入共融部分，从主祷文开始。
- start: 755.732
  end: 760.053
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: There's an exchange of peace that we do also in our rite.
  zh: 在我们的礼仪中也有平安的交换。
- start: 760.134
  end: 763.875
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And then from the altar, we take communion to the people.
  zh: 然后从祭坛上，我们把圣餐带给人们。
- start: 764.019
  end: 776.584
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And this is, so what we're supposed to be doing is that the people are supposed to come to the altar to receive communion.
  zh: 这是，所以我们应该做的是人们应该来到祭坛领受圣餐。
- start: 776.584
  end: 778.645
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Like you would come to the table at home.
  zh: 就像你会到家里的餐桌前一样。
- start: 778.645
  end: 780.926
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: You sit down at the table to eat.
  zh: 你坐在桌边吃饭。
- start: 780.946
  end: 782.386
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So they're supposed to be coming.
  zh: 所以他们应该是来的。
- start: 782.386
  end: 788.868
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So the idea of the procession is that you're coming to eat at the altar.
  zh: 所以游行的理念是你来到祭坛前吃饭。
- start: 788.868
  end: 790.369
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So they line up right down the middle here.
  zh: 所以他们在这里中间排队。
- start: 790.369
  end: 797.571
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: They line up, but of course they don't come up to the altar because it's, you know, just logistically.
  zh: 他们排队，但当然他们不会走到祭坛前，因为，你知道，只是出于后勤考虑。
- start: 798.852
  end: 806.095
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But that was in the past when you had an altar rail around where people took communion from the altar rail.
  zh: 但那是过去当你有祭坛栏杆时，人们从祭坛栏杆领受圣餐。
- start: 806.095
  end: 809.276
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: The rail was an extension of the altar.
  zh: 栏杆是祭坛的延伸。
- start: 809.276
  end: 812.817
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So they come in procession because it's an altar call.
  zh: 所以他们排队前进因为这是祭坛的呼召。
- start: 814.525
  end: 816.186
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Again, that language means something a little different.
  zh: 再次，那个词语的意思有点不同。
- start: 816.186
  end: 817.306
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's an altar call.
  zh: 这是祭坛的呼召。
- start: 817.306
  end: 825.428
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So if you believe in Jesus, if Jesus is your Savior, if you want to receive the body and blood of Jesus, come on up.
  zh: 所以如果你相信耶稣，如果耶稣是你的救主，如果你想领受耶稣的身体和血，就上前来。
- start: 825.428
  end: 827.609
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: That's what we'll say it that way.
  zh: 那就是我们会那样说的方式。
- start: 827.609
  end: 830.689
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So a non-confirmed Protestant could take communion?
  zh: 所以一个未经坚振礼的新教徒可以领圣餐吗？
- start: 830.689
  end: 833.77
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No. So if you believe and you've been confirmed.
  zh: 不。所以如果你相信并且已经接受了坚振礼。
- start: 833.886
  end: 836.868
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And, yeah, you signed a Catholic doctrine, you can come in.
  zh: 而且，是的，你签署了天主教教义，你可以来。
- start: 836.868
  end: 838.509
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: All right, all right, I'm glad.
  zh: 好的，好的，我很高兴。
- start: 838.509
  end: 839.089
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Because it's that one.
  zh: 因为就是那个。
- start: 839.089
  end: 839.929
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I wasn't trying to get greedy.
  zh: 我并不是想贪心。
- start: 839.929
  end: 841.43
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: No, no, because it was that oneness.
  zh: 不，不，因为那是那种合一性。
- start: 841.43
  end: 848.574
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: If we're going to be all, if it's everybody one, then we all doctrinally need to be one.
  zh: 如果我们要成为全部，如果大家都是一体的，那么我们在教义上也需要合一。
- start: 848.574
  end: 848.914
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 848.914
  end: 854.537
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Okay, so there's, I must admit, there's probably some people that have received First Communion.
  zh: 好的，所以有，我必须承认，可能有一些人已经接受了初领圣体。
- start: 854.537
  end: 856.238
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Some really sneaky ones.
  zh: 一些真正狡猾的人。
- start: 856.238
  end: 859.919
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And we preserved the Blessed Sacrament in a tabernacle.
  zh: 我们在圣体龛中保存圣体。
- start: 859.98
  end: 860.7
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Oh, is that what this is?
  zh: 哦，这就是这个吗？
- start: 860.7
  end: 861.82
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Which is behind here.
  zh: 就在这后面。
- start: 861.82
  end: 862.601
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: We can go...
  zh: 我们可以去…
- start: 863.052
  end: 864.272
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Let me show you the tabernacle.
  zh: 让我给你看圣体龛。
- start: 864.272
  end: 865.273
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, I'd love to see it.
  zh: 是的，我很想看看。
- start: 865.273
  end: 870.954
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So the tabernacle here is where we keep the blessed sacrament.
  zh: 所以这里的圣体龛是我们存放圣体的地方。
- start: 870.954
  end: 873.215
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: We have a light that lets people know.
  zh: 我们有一盏灯让人们知道。
- start: 873.215
  end: 876.355
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And it's the communion that's left over.
  zh: 它是剩余的圣餐。
- start: 876.355
  end: 881.497
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And you can't untransubstantiate what is already the body and blood of Christ?
  zh: 你不能逆转已经是基督的身体和血的实体变化吗？
- start: 881.497
  end: 883.137
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: You cannot untransubstantiate.
  zh: 你不能逆转实体变化。
- start: 883.137
  end: 885.718
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So once it's the Eucharist, it is the Eucharist.
  zh: 所以一旦它成为圣餐，它就是圣餐。
- start: 885.738
  end: 886.638
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Which happens there?
  zh: 这发生在那里？
- start: 886.638
  end: 887.358
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: There.
  zh: 那里。
- start: 887.358
  end: 890.739
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So once you say the prayer, it is Jesus.
  zh: 所以一旦你说了祷告，它就是耶稣。
- start: 890.802
  end: 895.044
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So what is in here is all post-prayer.
  zh: 所以这里面的都是祷告后的。
- start: 895.424
  end: 897.265
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And it's all post-prayer.
  zh: 而且都是祷告后的。
- start: 897.265
  end: 900.247
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So we preserve that in here and we use it.
  zh: 所以我们在这里保存它并使用它。
- start: 900.247
  end: 910.331
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And then over the centuries, people said, well, you know, if I believe that was Jesus over there, then I believe there's Jesus here and I'm going to come and pray.
  zh: 然后几个世纪以来，人们说，嗯，你知道，如果我相信那是那边的耶稣，那么我相信这里有耶稣，我要来祈祷。
- start: 910.331
  end: 912.092
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Well, where am I going to come and pray?
  zh: 那么，我要到哪里来祈祷？
- start: 912.557
  end: 913.938
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Pray in an empty building?
  zh: 在空荡荡的建筑物里祈祷？
- start: 913.938
  end: 920.542
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: No, I'm going to come and pray, and then I'm going to light a candle, and then, you know, and now 2,000 years later, here we are.
  zh: 不，我要来祈祷，然后我要点燃一支蜡烛，然后，你知道，现在2000年后，我们在这里。
- start: 920.542
  end: 924.405
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So this is, in Roman Catholic theology, this is part of the presence of Christ.
  zh: 所以这在罗马天主教神学中，这是基督临在的一部分。
- start: 924.405
  end: 925.385
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Right, right.
  zh: 对，对。
- start: 925.385
  end: 934.611
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And in this church, it's here, again, because it belongs, I mean, in a way, you would say that the head is right here in this cruciform, you know.
  zh: 在这个教会中，它在这里，再次，因为它属于，我的意思是，在某种程度上，你会说头部就在这个十字形中，你知道。
- start: 934.611
  end: 937.493
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So again, so everything is Christ.
  zh: 所以再次，一切都是基督。
- start: 937.796
  end: 939.477
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Christ is the altar.
  zh: 基督是祭坛。
- start: 939.477
  end: 941.337
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Christ is the people.
  zh: 基督是人民。
- start: 941.477
  end: 943.398
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Christ is the Eucharist.
  zh: 基督是圣餐。
- start: 943.658
  end: 944.358
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Everything.
  zh: 一切。
- start: 944.358
  end: 946.479
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Everything says it's Jesus.
  zh: 一切都说它是耶稣。
- start: 946.559
  end: 950.5
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You're connecting the dots with all of that for me better than anybody ever has.
  zh: 你把所有这些联系起来，比任何人解释得都要好。
- start: 950.5
  end: 952.361
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So thank you for your patience.
  zh: 所以谢谢你的耐心。
- start: 952.361
  end: 953.261
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You're welcome.
  zh: 不客气。
- start: 953.261
  end: 953.701
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You're welcome.
  zh: 不客气。
- start: 953.701
  end: 954.102
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You're welcome.
  zh: 不客气。
- start: 954.102
  end: 957.183
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: With my fifth grade level questions here.
  zh: 对于我这些五年级水平的问题。
- start: 957.183
  end: 959.023
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's something else that stands out to me back here.
  zh: 这里还有其他引起我注意的东西。
- start: 959.023
  end: 961.864
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So that's a reliquary.
  zh: 那是一个圣髑匣。
- start: 961.864
  end: 962.845
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I kind of suspected it might be.
  zh: 我有点怀疑它可能是。
- start: 962.845
  end: 964.605
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So that's a reliquary.
  zh: 所以那是一个圣髑匣。
- start: 964.605
  end: 967.206
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And a reliquary is as something...
  zh: 而圣髑匣是一种…
- start: 967.608
  end: 968.988
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: based on a saint.
  zh: 基于圣人的东西。
- start: 969.029
  end: 969.329
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 969.329
  end: 977.833
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So what we say is that that is a relic of St. Mary Magdalene, who is the patron saint of our church.
  zh: 所以我们说那是圣抹大拉马利亚的圣髑，她是我们教会的守护圣人。
- start: 977.833
  end: 980.255
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Cathedral of the Madeleine is Mary Magdalene.
  zh: 抹大拉人大教堂是抹大拉马利亚。
- start: 980.255
  end: 982.016
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's something a couple thousand years old in there?
  zh: 里面有一些几千年前的东西？
- start: 982.016
  end: 982.296
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Yeah.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 982.296
  end: 986.118
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So a little tiny bone fragment, and that's all we know.
  zh: 所以是一小块骨头碎片，这就是我们所知道的全部。
- start: 986.118
  end: 986.698
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 986.698
  end: 988.419
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: I mean, we only...
  zh: 我的意思是，我们只是…
- start: 989.088
  end: 993.111
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: have that and it's believed that that's that.
  zh: 有那个，并且相信那就是那个。
- start: 993.212
  end: 995.314
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And that's tucked away in the...
  zh: 而那被藏在…
- start: 995.314
  end: 998.337
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Tucked away in the, you know, behind the fleur-de-lis.
  zh: 藏在，你知道，百合花徽章后面。
- start: 998.337
  end: 999.898
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Okay, all right.
  zh: 好的，明白了。
- start: 1000.619
  end: 1003.822
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And then Mary Magdalene, of course, is at the foot of the cross.
  zh: 然后抹大拉马利亚，当然，是在十字架脚下的。
- start: 1003.822
  end: 1007.518
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So Mary Magdalene appears three or four times in the church.
  zh: 所以抹大拉马利亚在教会中出现三四次。
- start: 1007.518
  end: 1011.119
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Is this a reminder or is there a spiritual reality?
  zh: 这是一个提醒还是有一个属灵的实际？
- start: 1011.119
  end: 1014.38
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It's a reminder that we're connected.
  zh: 这是一个提醒，我们是相连的。
- start: 1015.28
  end: 1017.46
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: We're connected to our patron saint.
  zh: 我们与我们的守护圣人相连。
- start: 1017.781
  end: 1020.781
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And it just turns out that our patron saint knew Jesus.
  zh: 而且恰好我们的守护圣人认识耶稣。
- start: 1021.081
  end: 1030.944
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Even though she's a part of the church triumphant, that relic, does that mean that she is present in the same way that Christ is present?
  zh: 尽管她是得胜教会的一部分，那个圣髑，是否意味着她的临在方式与基督的临在相同？
- start: 1030.944
  end: 1032.164
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Oh, no, not at all.
  zh: 哦，不，完全不是。
- start: 1033.465
  end: 1036.835
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So no more, she would be,  Like any other believer.
  zh: 所以不会更多，她会像任何其他信徒一样。
- start: 1036.835
  end: 1041.158
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So it's just reverence that this is Jesus.
  zh: 所以只是敬重这是耶稣。
- start: 1041.158
  end: 1042.479
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So she is here.
  zh: 所以她在这里。
- start: 1042.479
  end: 1043.439
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: She is remembered.
  zh: 她被纪念。
- start: 1043.439
  end: 1043.84
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Right.
  zh: 对。
- start: 1043.84
  end: 1044.8
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 1044.8
  end: 1045.341
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Right.
  zh: 对。
- start: 1045.341
  end: 1047.963
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And it's just meant to make a connection.
  zh: 这只是为了建立一种联系。
- start: 1047.963
  end: 1052.506
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And most people probably don't even know that that's a relic of St. Mary Magdalene.
  zh: 而且大多数人可能甚至不知道那是圣抹大拉马利亚的圣髑。
- start: 1052.686
  end: 1054.527
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: This is called the Ambry.
  zh: 这被称为圣油柜。
- start: 1054.948
  end: 1055.708
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Ambry.
  zh: 圣油柜。
- start: 1055.708
  end: 1056.188
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Ambry.
  zh: 圣油柜。
- start: 1056.188
  end: 1056.509
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 1056.509
  end: 1062.39
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So every church has an Ambry, which is where the holy oils,  are kept.
  zh: 所以每个教会都有一个圣油柜，这是存放圣油的地方。
- start: 1062.39
  end: 1069.553
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So these are the oils, the urns that are actually blessed every year by the, the oil inside is blessed by the bishop.
  zh: 所以这些是油，这些瓮实际上每年都被祝福，里面的油是由主教祝福的。
- start: 1069.553
  end: 1070.193
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This bishop?
  zh: 这位主教？
- start: 1070.193
  end: 1071.013
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: This bishop.
  zh: 这位主教。
- start: 1071.013
  end: 1071.734
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 1071.734
  end: 1072.774
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And where does the oil come from?
  zh: 这油是从哪里来的？
- start: 1072.774
  end: 1073.354
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What's it made of?
  zh: 它是由什么制成的？
- start: 1073.354
  end: 1074.074
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's olive oil.
  zh: 它是橄榄油。
- start: 1074.074
  end: 1078.476
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Olive oil and then the chrism has a balsam perfume in it.
  zh: 橄榄油，然后圣油膏中加入了香脂香料。
- start: 1078.776
  end: 1081.197
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So it's all the same oil.
  zh: 所以它们都是同一种油。
- start: 1081.197
  end: 1086.279
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Is there some sort of spiritual transformation or transaction that's occurring?
  zh: 是否有某种属灵的转变或交流正在发生？
- start: 1086.359
  end: 1089.94
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: The blessing is  is for each oil in particular.
  zh: 祝福是针对每种油的特定情况。
- start: 1089.94
  end: 1091.32
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 1091.32
  end: 1094.26
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: The oil for the sick is a healing blessing.
  zh: 病人用的油是一种医治的祝福。
- start: 1094.26
  end: 1105.483
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: The oil of the catechumens, meaning those who are coming into the church, is a, well, catechumens are kind of a spiritual kind of get out the evil blessing.
  zh: 慕道者用的油，意思是那些将要进入教会的人，是一种，嗯，慕道者的油是一种属灵的驱除邪恶的祝福。
- start: 1105.483
  end: 1105.683
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 1105.683
  end: 1106.163
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You will.
  zh: 你会的。
- start: 1106.163
  end: 1107.123
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The gargoyles.
  zh: 石像鬼。
- start: 1107.123
  end: 1107.703
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Yeah.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 1107.703
  end: 1120.751
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And then the chrism oil is the Christ oil, is the anointing oil of confirmation, ordination,  and that, the sealing and the configuring to Christ oil.
  zh: 然后圣油膏是基督之油，是坚振礼、授职礼的膏油，那是封印和使人形同基督的油。
- start: 1120.751
  end: 1133.687
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And in that oil, when it's blessed, the bishop breathes on the oil because his spirit, like Christ breathed, I mean, God breathed into the dirt and got Adam and Eve.
  zh: 在那油中，当它被祝福时，主教对着油呼气，因为他的灵，就像基督呼气，我的意思是，神向尘土吹气创造了亚当和夏娃。
- start: 1134.195
  end: 1150.623
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So the bishop breathes into it for his spirit then resides, Christ's spirit resides in that oil because he is Christ for us in the sense of, you know, a vicar of Christ, if you will, one who stands in the place of Christ.
  zh: 所以主教向其中呼气，他的灵就住在其中，基督的灵住在那油中，因为他对我们来说是基督，你知道，如果你愿意这么说的话，他是基督的代理人，是站在基督位置上的人。
- start: 1152.084
  end: 1158.808
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So is it oil instead of water because of a reference to the Old Testament anointing?
  zh: 所以它是油而不是水，是因为参考了旧约中的膏抹吗？
- start: 1158.808
  end: 1168.094
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So when they anointed a king, Samuel anoints David, he breaks the horn of oil, pours it on top of him, and so that's that.
  zh: 所以当他们膏立一位王时，撒母耳膏立大卫，他打破盛油的角，将油倒在他头上，就是这样。
- start: 1168.094
  end: 1176.339
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: In James, call the presbyters, have them pray over you, and anoint it with oil.
  zh: 在雅各书中，叫长老们来，让他们为你祷告，用油膏抹。
- start: 1176.34
  end: 1178.481
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Is this another relic here?
  zh: 这里是另一个圣髑吗？
- start: 1178.481
  end: 1180.542
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: This is a relic of the true cross.
  zh: 这是真十字架的圣髑。
- start: 1180.615
  end: 1191.359
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So this is, in Catholic theology, so we have very small pieces of the cross of Jesus.
  zh: 所以这是，在天主教神学中，我们有耶稣十字架的很小的碎片。
- start: 1191.359
  end: 1194.02
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So that's, we have one.
  zh: 所以那是，我们有一个。
- start: 1194.06
  end: 1197.441
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So this would be the one recovered by St. Helena in the 4th century.
  zh: 所以这会是圣海伦娜在4世纪找回的那个。
- start: 1197.441
  end: 1198.302
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Right, in the 4th century.
  zh: 对，在4世纪。
- start: 1198.302
  end: 1204.104
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So they say that pieces of that have been spread throughout the world, and we have one.
  zh: 所以他们说那些碎片已经分散到世界各地，我们有一个。
- start: 1205.819
  end: 1206.519
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yes.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 1206.82
  end: 1212.023
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, the historian in me just wanted to be like, well, how do you know that and how did it work?
  zh: 我的意思是，我内心的历史学家只是想说，嗯，你怎么知道那个，它是怎么运作的？
- start: 1212.504
  end: 1213.564
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We have one.
  zh: 我们有一个。
- start: 1213.585
  end: 1214.385
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So we come down here.
  zh: 所以我们来到这里。
- start: 1214.385
  end: 1218.208
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Is there significance to the baptismal font being at the foot of the cross?
  zh: 洗礼池位于十字架脚下有什么意义吗？
- start: 1218.208
  end: 1223.272
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So the baptismal font is for the entrance into the church.
  zh: 所以洗礼池是为进入教会的入口。
- start: 1223.272
  end: 1223.692
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 1223.692
  end: 1228.275
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So it doesn't have to be here at the entrance of the church.
  zh: 所以它不一定要在教会的入口处。
- start: 1228.555
  end: 1228.916
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 1228.916
  end: 1232.458
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But we were able, in our 1993 restoration...
  zh: 但我们在1993年的修复中能够...
- start: 1234.141
  end: 1240.005
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: to place the baptismal font here because it's the first sacrament.
  zh: 把洗礼池放在这里，因为它是第一个圣事。
- start: 1240.166
  end: 1242.027
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So it's a sacrament of initiation.
  zh: 所以它是一个入门圣事。
- start: 1242.027
  end: 1244.529
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So how do you get into the church?
  zh: 那么你如何进入教会？
- start: 1245.03
  end: 1246.511
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: You were baptized, right?
  zh: 你受洗了，对吧？
- start: 1246.751
  end: 1249.053
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I just never thought of it as being chronological.
  zh: 我从未想过它是按时间顺序的。
- start: 1249.053
  end: 1251.835
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Before you're baptized, you're not a member of the church.
  zh: 在你受洗之前，你不是教会的成员。
- start: 1251.835
  end: 1253.437
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: You're not a member of the body of Christ, correct?
  zh: 你不是基督身体的成员，对吗？
- start: 1253.437
  end: 1254.217
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Correct.
  zh: 正确。
- start: 1254.801
  end: 1255.842
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 1255.842
  end: 1256.802
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Different than other traditions?
  zh: 与其他传统不同？
- start: 1256.802
  end: 1260.625
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, I mean, you're a pagan.
  zh: 不，我的意思是，你是个异教徒。
- start: 1262.206
  end: 1263.407
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: You're not a Christian.
  zh: 你不是基督徒。
- start: 1263.407
  end: 1265.328
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Here, we have our confessionals.
  zh: 这里，我们有我们的告解室。
- start: 1265.449
  end: 1266.369
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Tell me about that.
  zh: 告诉我关于那个的情况。
- start: 1266.369
  end: 1270.112
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So, again, they don't have to be where they are.
  zh: 所以，再次，它们不一定要在它们所在的位置。
- start: 1270.332
  end: 1272.574
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But in this church, they're on either side.
  zh: 但在这个教会中，它们在两侧。
- start: 1272.574
  end: 1278.298
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So, not every church has an ornate, wood-carved confessional.
  zh: 所以，不是每个教会都有一个装饰华丽、木雕的告解室。
- start: 1278.298
  end: 1279.298
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: We're lucky.
  zh: 我们很幸运。
- start: 1279.539
  end: 1280.379
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 1280.579
  end: 1283.301
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: In our confessional, there are two sides.
  zh: 在我们的告解室中，有两边。
- start: 1285.646
  end: 1286.927
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So I don't know.
  zh: 所以我不知道。
- start: 1286.967
  end: 1288.188
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Am I allowed to go in?
  zh: 我被允许进去吗？
- start: 1288.188
  end: 1290.41
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: You can come on in, only if you're a sinner.
  zh: 你可以进来，只要你是个罪人。
- start: 1290.41
  end: 1291.95
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Oh, good.
  zh: 哦，好的。
- start: 1292.511
  end: 1299.136
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So in our confessional, the priest sits on one side, and the people have a choice.
  zh: 所以在我们的告解室中，祭司坐在一边，人们有一个选择。
- start: 1299.176
  end: 1306.081
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: They can sit, talk face-to-face, or kneel and speak anonymously through a screen.
  zh: 他们可以坐着，面对面交谈，或者跪下通过屏幕匿名说话。
- start: 1306.402
  end: 1314.566
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And surprisingly enough, people will kind of look and say,  say hello, and then kneel down anonymously.
  zh: 令人惊讶的是，人们会看一眼，打个招呼，然后匿名地跪下。
- start: 1314.566
  end: 1315.068
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Oh, really?
  zh: 哦，真的吗？
- start: 1315.068
  end: 1321.54
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: For many people, the anonymous is, I'm not talking to this priest, I'm talking to God.
  zh: 对许多人来说，匿名是，我不是在和这位祭司说话，我是在和神说话。
- start: 1321.792
  end: 1329.815
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: The priest is just listening for God, and they want to talk to God and say, okay, God, these are my sins, and this is where I need help.
  zh: 祭司只是为神倾听，他们想对神说话，说，好的，神，这些是我的罪，这是我需要帮助的地方。
- start: 1330.915
  end: 1336.277
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Others, when people sit face-to-face, often it becomes more of a conversation.
  zh: 其他时候，当人们面对面坐着时，它常常变成更多的对话。
- start: 1336.277
  end: 1337.237
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: These are my sins.
  zh: 这些是我的罪。
- start: 1337.237
  end: 1340.358
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Can you give me some advice and help?
  zh: 你能给我一些建议和帮助吗？
- start: 1341.059
  end: 1347.621
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And each confession takes three minutes, five at the most, unless someone really wants to talk.
  zh: 每次告解需要三分钟，最多五分钟，除非有人真的想要交谈。
- start: 1348.461
  end: 1350.762
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It's a very short experience.
  zh: 这是一个非常短暂的经历。
- start: 1350.802
  end: 1351.602
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Come in.
  zh: 进来。
- start: 1351.755
  end: 1353.378
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: When was my last confession?
  zh: 我上次告解是什么时候？
- start: 1353.378
  end: 1354.819
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: These are my sins.
  zh: 这些是我的罪。
- start: 1354.9
  end: 1356.301
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Here's a penance.
  zh: 这是一个补赎。
- start: 1356.943
  end: 1358.145
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Here's the absolution.
  zh: 这是赦免。
- start: 1358.145
  end: 1359.786
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: I'm sorry for my sins.
  zh: 我为我的罪感到抱歉。
- start: 1359.807
  end: 1360.428
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Absolution.
  zh: 赦免。
- start: 1360.428
  end: 1361.709
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Blessing.
  zh: 祝福。
- start: 1361.89
  end: 1363.292
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: What is a penance?
  zh: 什么是补赎？
- start: 1363.313
  end: 1367.839
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So the penance is something that you do that kind of says you were sincere.
  zh: 所以补赎是你做的某事，表明你是真诚的。
- start: 1368.425
  end: 1371.128
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, so like stopping doing the bad thing I was doing?
  zh: 好的，所以像停止做我正在做的坏事？
- start: 1371.128
  end: 1379.096
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Well, it's usually like saying an Our Father, praying an Our Father, praying a Hail Mary, praying maybe a decade of the Rosary.
  zh: 嗯，它通常像是诵念一遍主祷文，祈祷一次主祷文，祈祷一次圣母经，也许祈祷一串玫瑰经。
- start: 1379.697
  end: 1380.478
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm so ignorant.
  zh: 我太无知了。
- start: 1380.478
  end: 1381.458
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What are those?
  zh: 那些是什么？
- start: 1381.579
  end: 1382.72
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So the Hail Mary?
  zh: 所以圣母经？
- start: 1382.72
  end: 1383.741
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, or the Our Father.
  zh: 是的，或者主祷文。
- start: 1383.741
  end: 1384.942
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: The Lord's Prayer.
  zh: 主祷文。
- start: 1385.309
  end: 1385.589
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 1385.589
  end: 1387.71
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So we're sorry.
  zh: 所以我们很抱歉。
- start: 1387.71
  end: 1389.59
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I thought, what?
  zh: 我想，什么？
- start: 1389.59
  end: 1390.57
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: You don't know the Our Father?
  zh: 你不知道主祷文吗？
- start: 1390.57
  end: 1393.611
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I do know that one, actually.
  zh: 实际上，我知道那个。
- start: 1393.611
  end: 1396.831
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So I always say, pray one Our Father and one Hail Mary.
  zh: 所以我总是说，祈祷一次主祷文和一次圣母经。
- start: 1396.831
  end: 1399.152
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Hail Mary is the prayer that comes from the angel.
  zh: 圣母经是来自天使的祷告。
- start: 1399.152
  end: 1402.132
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.
  zh: 万福马利亚，充满恩宠，主与你同在。
- start: 1402.172
  end: 1403.393
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Angel Gabriel.
  zh: 天使加百列。
- start: 1403.593
  end: 1410.954
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And then the last part is Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.
  zh: 然后最后一部分是至圣马利亚，神的母亲，现在和我们临终时，为我们罪人祈祷。
- start: 1410.954
  end: 1415.215
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So it's just asking Mary, pray for us now at the hour of our death.
  zh: 所以它只是请求马利亚，现在和我们临终时为我们祈祷。
- start: 1415.974
  end: 1422.856
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So sacrament of healing, people go to confession once a year, twice a year, once a month.
  zh: 所以医治的圣事，人们一年去告解一次，一年两次，一个月一次。
- start: 1422.856
  end: 1429.038
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So just everyone has a different kind of style for kind of time period.
  zh: 所以每个人对时间周期都有不同的风格。
- start: 1429.038
  end: 1436.22
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: On Netflix's Daredevil, which is my main source of information about confession, it seems like they always open with how long has it been since your last confession.
  zh: 在Netflix的《夜魔侠》中，这是我关于告解的主要信息来源，他们似乎总是以「距离你上次告解有多久了」开始。
- start: 1436.22
  end: 1436.7
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Is that real?
  zh: 那是真的吗？
- start: 1436.7
  end: 1437.16
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do you do that?
  zh: 你会那样做吗？
- start: 1437.16
  end: 1437.841
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So you do that.
  zh: 所以你会那样做。
- start: 1437.841
  end: 1438.501
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And why do you do it?
  zh: 为什么你要那样做？
- start: 1438.501
  end: 1439.241
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: We can step up.
  zh: 我们可以走上前。
- start: 1439.241
  end: 1440.621
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: We don't have to stand in here.
  zh: 我们不必站在这里。
- start: 1440.621
  end: 1441.722
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I think it's really neat.
  zh: 我认为这真的很整洁。
- start: 1441.722
  end: 1448.555
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So if you tell me,  It's been one month since my last confession, and I missed going to church twice.
  zh: 所以如果你告诉我，距离我上次告解已经一个月了，我错过了两次去教会。
- start: 1448.835
  end: 1450.555
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So that's two out of four.
  zh: 所以那是四次中的两次。
- start: 1450.816
  end: 1451.616
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 1451.836
  end: 1462.138
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But if you tell me it's been one year since my last confession, and I missed church Sunday twice, that's two out of 52. So it gives you context?
  zh: 但如果你告诉我距离我上次告解已经一年了，我错过了两次周日的教会，那是52次中的两次。所以这给你提供了背景？
- start: 1462.138
  end: 1463.458
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It gives me a context.
  zh: 它给了我一个背景。
- start: 1463.458
  end: 1482.479
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It helps to understand kind of what the person's working on and how, you know, it doesn't make any difference in the sense, you know,  But if someone said, I've been a year since my last confession and I've not been to Mass at all.
  zh: 它有助于理解这个人在做什么以及如何，你知道，在某种意义上它没有任何区别，你知道，但如果有人说，距离我上次告解已经一年了，我根本没有去过弥撒。
- start: 1482.479
  end: 1484.54
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: That's a whole year's worth.
  zh: 那是整整一年的量。
- start: 1484.76
  end: 1490.963
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: You know, that's a different kind of response, if you will, than if someone says it's been a month and I haven't been to Mass.
  zh: 你知道，如果你愿意，那是一种不同的回应，不同于有人说距离上次已经一个月了，我没有去过弥撒。
- start: 1491.143
  end: 1497.146
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So this is a kind of an acute, something's going on right now.
  zh: 所以这是一种急性的，现在正在发生某事。
- start: 1497.327
  end: 1499.928
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: What is it that's preventing you from going to Mass?
  zh: 是什么阻止你去参加弥撒？
- start: 1500.031
  end: 1502.133
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: So how can I help you get closer to God?
  zh: 所以我怎样才能帮助你更接近神？
- start: 1502.133
  end: 1511.803
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, well, it's an entirely different pastoral exercise for you to work with somebody who's maybe kind of walked away from your faith than somebody who really wants to get it right in his venue.
  zh: 是的，嗯，对你来说，与可能已经离开你们信仰的人一起工作，和与真正想在他的领域做对的人一起工作，这是一种完全不同的牧养练习。
- start: 1511.803
  end: 1515.287
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: From the forgiveness point of view, it's the same.
  zh: 从宽恕的角度来看，它是相同的。
- start: 1515.287
  end: 1516.268
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: God forgives you.
  zh: 神宽恕你。
- start: 1516.268
  end: 1518.41
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Whatever you did, God forgives you.
  zh: 无论你做了什么，神都宽恕你。
- start: 1518.41
  end: 1527.932
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: But if I can help you, I need a context to offer some kind of,  gentle advice or push or, you know, have you thought about it this way?
  zh: 但如果我能帮助你，我需要一个背景来提供某种，温和的建议或推动，或者，你知道，你有没有这样想过？
- start: 1527.992
  end: 1529.193
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Does that make sense in terms of...
  zh: 从...角度来看，这有道理吗？
- start: 1529.193
  end: 1529.813
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It does.
  zh: 有道理。
- start: 1529.813
  end: 1530.474
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It does.
  zh: 有道理。
- start: 1530.474
  end: 1531.714
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's something I can relate to.
  zh: 那是我能理解的事情。
- start: 1531.714
  end: 1533.476
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, a practical question.
  zh: 所以，一个实际问题。
- start: 1533.476
  end: 1534.176
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yes.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 1534.276
  end: 1536.377
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If this is shut, can people hear you out here?
  zh: 如果这是关闭的，人们能在外面听到你吗？
- start: 1536.638
  end: 1538.279
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: No. It's a heavy door.
  zh: 不能。这是一扇厚重的门。
- start: 1538.279
  end: 1539.68
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do you get a line sometimes?
  zh: 有时候你会排队吗？
- start: 1539.68
  end: 1539.94
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Oh, yeah.
  zh: 哦，是的。
- start: 1539.94
  end: 1541.461
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: I hear confessions for an hour.
  zh: 我听告解一个小时。
- start: 1541.461
  end: 1543.963
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: People back up and they're eager to be here.
  zh: 人们排队等候，他们渴望来这里。
- start: 1543.963
  end: 1547.505
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: And again, why do people line up?
  zh: 再说一次，为什么人们要排队？
- start: 1547.505
  end: 1549.146
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: It's a profession of faith.
  zh: 这是一种信仰的表白。
- start: 1549.332
  end: 1550.553
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, it's interesting.
  zh: 是的，这很有趣。
- start: 1550.553
  end: 1560.287
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We stepped in there, and maybe it's the architecture, maybe it's the environment, maybe something subconscious is brilliantly crafted into this.
  zh: 我们走进那里，也许是建筑，也许是环境，也许某些潜意识被巧妙地融入其中。
- start: 1560.287
  end: 1568.751
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Maybe it's the fact that I'm also a Christian, but my inclination was, I want to turn these off and shut the door and talk for a minute.
  zh: 也许是因为我也是一个基督徒，但我的倾向是，我想关掉这些，关上门，谈一分钟。
- start: 1569.472
  end: 1577.537
  speaker: SPEAKER_01
  en: Every once in a while, we get non-Catholics who come and sit and ask for forgiveness.
  zh: 时不时地，我们会有非天主教徒来坐下并寻求宽恕。
- start: 1577.537
  end: 1579.498
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Maybe we can have a conversation about that before I go.
  zh: 也许在我离开之前我们可以谈谈这个。
- start: 1579.498
  end: 1580.118
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 1590.509
  end: 1603.476
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's pretty much where we wrapped up the tour, but there was so much other interesting stuff that I'm sorry I wasn't able to cram into this edit, but here's maybe the two biggest things that I personally am gonna take away from this experience.
  zh: 这基本上就是我们结束参观的地方，但还有很多其他有趣的东西，很遗憾我无法塞进这个剪辑里，但这里可能是我个人将从这次经历中带走的两件最重要的事情。
- start: 1603.476
  end: 1615.402
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Thing number one, I was struck by how  utterly cohesive Roman Catholic thought and practice is within the context of a few key Roman Catholic assumptions.
  zh: 第一件事，在几个关键的罗马天主教假设的背景下，罗马天主教的思想和实践是如此完全连贯，这让我印象深刻。
- start: 1615.782
  end: 1627.489
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It is so easy for me to do this routine where I sit over in my little intellectual thought bunker echo chamber and imagine that everybody who thinks things that are different than me is just crazy.
  zh: 对我来说，很容易陷入这样一种常规，我坐在我的小小思想堡垒回音室里，想象每个想法与我不同的人都是疯狂的。
- start: 1627.489
  end: 1629.37
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How could you believe something like that?
  zh: 你怎么能相信那样的事情？
- start: 1629.37
  end: 1631.33
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Or I  Intellectually dishonest.
  zh: 或者我在智力上不诚实。
- start: 1631.33
  end: 1633.271
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You're lying to yourself over there.
  zh: 你在那边对自己撒谎。
- start: 1633.271
  end: 1639.632
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But not only is that not true of most people, it's mean on my part.
  zh: 但这不仅对大多数人来说不是真的，而且对我而言这很刻薄。
- start: 1639.793
  end: 1646.034
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, the reality is that most points of view are rooted in a few key assumptions.
  zh: 现在，现实是大多数观点都植根于几个关键假设。
- start: 1646.214
  end: 1650.855
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And then whatever happens after that flows pretty naturally out of those key assumptions.
  zh: 然后，无论之后发生什么，都相当自然地从那些关键假设中流出。
- start: 1650.855
  end: 1652.216
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Same thing here.
  zh: 这里也一样。
- start: 1652.436
  end: 1657.797
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you answer a few key questions about Jesus' relationship with the church...
  zh: 如果你回答几个关于耶稣与教会关系的关键问题……
- start: 1657.81
  end: 1665.754
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: if you interpret a couple of pivotal passages a certain way, you're just going to be Catholic, and everything's going to play out exactly the way it's played out.
  zh: 如果你以某种方式解释几段关键经文，你就会成为天主教徒，一切都会完全按照它所展现的方式发展。
- start: 1665.754
  end: 1672.478
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you answer them a slightly different way, you're probably going to be Protestant, and they're going to play out that way, or Orthodox, and they'll play out that way.
  zh: 如果你以稍微不同的方式回答它们，你可能会成为新教徒，它们会以那种方式发展，或者东正教，它们会以那种方式发展。
- start: 1672.578
  end: 1678.581
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Whatever the case, this was a humbling, helpful reminder about that reality.
  zh: 无论如何，这是一个令人谦卑、有益的关于那个现实的提醒。
- start: 1678.581
  end: 1687.866
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Second thing that really stood out to me here is, and you could probably see this coming as you were watching the video, but the confession bit there at the end kind of got through the armor for me.
  zh: 在这里真正突出的第二件事是，当你观看视频时你可能会预见到这一点，但最后的告解部分有点穿透了我的防御。
- start: 1688.295
  end: 1697.179
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The longer we were in that room and talking about it, the more I started to think about myself and about God and who I am and where I'm at with things.
  zh: 我们在那个房间里待得越久，谈论得越多，我就越开始思考我自己、思考神、思考我是谁以及我与事物的关系。
- start: 1697.179
  end: 1700.2
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I found myself really wanting to try that out.
  zh: 我发现自己真的想尝试一下。
- start: 1700.261
  end: 1704.703
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so Father Diaz said it was fine to take confession from a non-Roman Catholic.
  zh: 所以迪亚兹神父说接受一个非罗马天主教徒的告解是可以的。
- start: 1704.703
  end: 1709.865
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So after the cameras turned off, we shut the door and we did that.
  zh: 所以在摄像机关闭后，我们关上门，我们做了那个。
- start: 1709.885
  end: 1714.607
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I know I can have that conversation anywhere, anytime with God if I want to.
  zh: 我知道如果我想，我可以在任何地方、任何时间与神进行那样的对话。
- start: 1714.807
  end: 1716.788
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But there was something different.
  zh: 但有些不同。
- start: 1716.84
  end: 1725.175
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Very powerful about having Father Diaz sit in on that conversation and about the environment and context in which we had the conversation.
  zh: 让迪亚兹神父参与那次谈话，以及我们进行谈话的环境和背景，都非常有力量。
- start: 1725.175
  end: 1730.204
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So huge thank you to the Cathedral of the Madeleine for hosting this.
  zh: 所以非常感谢抹大拉人大教堂主办这次活动。
- start: 1730.31
  end: 1762.129
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: huge thank you to father diaz for the time the honesty answering my questions even when he suspected we might disagree or maybe it would make me uncomfortable he shot straight with me what more can you ask from somebody than that and finally if some of you just watch this video and you're sitting there saying well why didn't you press him further on that or why didn't he push back on you on this point a little bit more we actually have a second half to this conversation father diaz and i did a  sit-down interview where we cover a lot of those key theological differences that I referenced just a second ago.
  zh: 非常感谢迪亚兹神父花时间诚实回答我的问题，即使他怀疑我们可能会有不同意见，或者可能会让我感到不舒服，他都直截了当地对我说。你还能向别人要求什么呢？最后，如果你们中的一些人只是观看这个视频，坐在那里说，为什么你没有在那一点上进一步追问他，或者为什么他没有在这一点上对你多一点反驳，实际上我们有这次谈话的下半部分。迪亚兹神父和我进行了一次坐下来的采访，我们涵盖了我刚才提到的许多关键神学差异。
- start: 1762.129
  end: 1765.353
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I think that conversation is really worth your time.
  zh: 我认为那次谈话真的值得你花时间。
- start: 1765.353
  end: 1768.035
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It has a little different flavor than what we just did.
  zh: 它与我们刚才所做的有点不同的风味。
- start: 1768.035
  end: 1783.666
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so if you want to catch that video, I would be so honored if you would consider subscribing to this channel, which now, because of the way YouTube works, is kind of a  two-fold process where you've got to click the red subscribe button and also hit that little gray bell or else they don't let you know when a video comes out.
  zh: 所以如果你想看那个视频，如果你考虑订阅这个频道，我将非常荣幸。现在，由于YouTube的运作方式，这是一个两步过程，你必须点击红色的订阅按钮，还要点击那个小灰色铃铛，否则他们不会在视频发布时通知你。
- start: 1783.666
  end: 1786.707
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But if you would consider doing that, I would be very grateful.
  zh: 但如果你考虑这样做，我将非常感激。
- start: 1786.708
  end: 1788.309
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If not, it's cool too.
  zh: 如果不行，也没关系。
- start: 1788.309
  end: 1792.312
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm just glad that you're here and that you're up for conversations like this.
  zh: 我只是很高兴你在这里，而且你愿意进行这样的对话。
- start: 1792.312
  end: 1792.672
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm Matt.
  zh: 我是马特。
- start: 1792.672
  end: 1793.773
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This is the 10 Minute Bible Hour.
  zh: 这是「十分钟圣经时间」。
- start: 1793.773
  end: 1794.754
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Let's do this again soon.
  zh: 让我们很快再次这样做。
