- start: 8.2
  end: 12.746
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.
  zh: 奉父、子、圣灵的名，阿们。
- start: 13.468
  end: 21.379
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: God our Father, we just approach you as sons and daughters, in the name of your Son, Jesus, by the power of the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 神，我们的父，我们以儿女的身份，奉你圣子耶稣的名，藉着圣灵的大能来到你面前。
- start: 21.46
  end: 23.562
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We just want to thank you for the gift of life.
  zh: 我们要感谢你赐予我们生命。
- start: 24.223
  end: 31.006
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We thank you for the gift of faith that we have dwelling within our souls by virtue of our baptism.
  zh: 我们感谢你，因着洗礼使信心的恩赐住在我们的灵魂中。
- start: 31.166
  end: 41.51
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That faith which allows us to believe in you and everything that you have revealed to us, including the dogma of purgatory.
  zh: 这信心使我们能相信你和你向我们启示的一切，包括炼狱的教义。
- start: 41.571
  end: 47.493
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We ask that your spirit of truth may guide and lead us tonight to enlighten our mind, to empower our will.
  zh: 我们祈求你真理的灵今晚引导我们，启迪我们的心智，坚固我们的意志。
- start: 47.947
  end: 51.069
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: as we meditate upon this mystery of faith.
  zh: 当我们默想这信仰的奥秘时。
- start: 51.209
  end: 56.232
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so we pray, Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
  zh: 所以我们祷告，我们在天上的父，愿人都尊你的名为圣。
- start: 56.392
  end: 62.195
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
  zh: 愿你的国降临，愿你的旨意行在地上，如同行在天上。
- start: 62.476
  end: 71.681
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.
  zh: 我们日用的饮食，今日赐给我们。免我们的债，如同我们免了人的债。
- start: 71.981
  end: 76.922
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
  zh: 不叫我们遇见试探，救我们脱离凶恶。
- start: 76.982
  end: 77.422
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Amen.
  zh: 阿们。
- start: 77.422
  end: 79.583
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: St. Joseph, pray for us.
  zh: 圣约瑟，为我们祈祷。
- start: 79.583
  end: 83.124
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 奉父、子、圣灵的名。
- start: 83.124
  end: 83.964
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Amen.
  zh: 阿们。
- start: 84.164
  end: 87.685
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, so the doctrine of purgatory.
  zh: 好，让我们谈谈炼狱的教义。
- start: 87.965
  end: 98.447
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This is a very hot topic when it comes especially to, you know, no pun intended.
  zh: 这是一个非常热门的话题，你知道的，这可不是在玩文字游戏。
- start: 99.268
  end: 100.748
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That was pretty good.
  zh: 这说得很好。
- start: 101.648
  end: 107.051
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's a hot topic, especially when it comes to Catholic and Protestant dialogues.
  zh: 这是一个热门话题，特别是在公教徒和新教徒的对话中。
- start: 107.171
  end: 118.998
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I will never forget there was a time back in Louisiana when I was working for a convenience store, a corporation in the state of Louisiana, and I used to do inventory and cash auditing for these stores.
  zh: 我永远不会忘记，那时我在路易斯安那州为一家便利店连锁公司工作，负责这些商店的库存和现金审计。
- start: 118.998
  end: 124.581
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And one time I was behind the counter counting the cash, right?
  zh: 有一次我在柜台后面点钱，对吧？
- start: 124.581
  end: 138.029
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I heard this guy come up to the counter and say,  His products there, and I forget exactly what he said, but he said something that allowed me to conclude he was a Christian.
  zh: 我听到一个人走到柜台前，放下他的商品，我记不清他具体说了什么，但从他说的话我能判断出他是个基督徒。
- start: 138.029
  end: 152.219
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He was witnessing to his Christian faith, and at the time I was the young and zealous Catholic Christian, you know, talking to everybody about Jesus, and so when he ran, I ran around the counter, not to imply that I'm not that anymore, okay?
  zh: 他在见证他的基督信仰，而那时我是一个年轻热心的公教基督徒，你知道的，和每个人都谈论耶稣。所以当他要走的时候，我跑出柜台，这并不是说我现在就不是那样了，好吗？
- start: 152.419
  end: 153.7
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Hopefully I'm not.
  zh: 希望我没有改变。
- start: 153.7
  end: 156.182
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Hopefully I'm still living for the Lord.
  zh: 希望我仍然在为主而活。
- start: 156.442
  end: 159.925
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So I ran around the counter and I stopped him in the parking lot.
  zh: 所以我跑出柜台，在停车场拦住了他。
- start: 159.925
  end: 169.933
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, and I just wanted to shake his hand and just affirm him in his Christian faith and thank him for being a witness to Christianity and to our Lord.
  zh: 你知道，我只是想和他握手，肯定他的基督信仰，感谢他为基督教和我们的主作见证。
- start: 169.933
  end: 173.295
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so I shake his hand and he says, so where do you worship?
  zh: 于是我和他握手，他问道：「你在哪里敬拜？」
- start: 173.295
  end: 177.217
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And at the time, it was at St. Michael's Catholic Church in Crowley.
  zh: 当时，我在克劳利的圣米迦勒公教会。
- start: 177.217
  end: 186.022
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And the minute I said Catholic, boy, the first thing that came out of his mouth was a question about purgatory.
  zh: 当我一说出「公教」这个词，天啊，他马上就问起了关于炼狱的问题。
- start: 186.303
  end: 191.465
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Purgatory, that's a doctrine of men, and it takes away from the cross of Christ.
  zh: 「炼狱，那是人的教义，它削弱了基督十字架的功效。」
- start: 191.465
  end: 197.349
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And we dialogued for about five minutes, and of course he was going back to work across the street.
  zh: 我们对话了大约五分钟，当然他要回到街对面去上班。
- start: 197.349
  end: 199.59
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He was just taking a break from his job.
  zh: 他只是在工作中休息一下。
- start: 199.59
  end: 201.531
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But I found it interesting.
  zh: 但我觉得很有趣。
- start: 201.531
  end: 212.017
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: that just in this little bitty dialogue, the first topic that comes up, it wasn't, oh, well, thank you, you know, I'm glad you're a Christian too.
  zh: 就在这短短的对话中，第一个话题不是「哦，谢谢你，你知道，我很高兴你也是基督徒」。
- start: 212.017
  end: 214.579
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It was nothing of that nature, just purgatory.
  zh: 完全不是那样的性质，就只谈炼狱。
- start: 214.579
  end: 220.422
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So apparently that's a hot-button issue for our Protestant brothers and sisters.
  zh: 显然这是我们新教弟兄姐妹们特别关注的问题。
- start: 220.422
  end: 251.445
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So this talk is directed at first, that particular audience, our Protestant brothers and sisters,  But secondly, for us who are Catholics here, the majority of us are indeed Catholics, for us to know how to explain the doctrine of purgatory, in particular to our Protestant brothers and sisters, but also simply for ourselves, so that we can get a clear understanding of what the Church teaches about this topic of purgatory.
  zh: 所以这个讲座首先是针对那个特定的听众，我们的新教弟兄姐妹，其次是为了我们这些公教徒，我们这里大多数确实是公教徒，让我们知道如何解释炼狱的教义，特别是向我们的新教弟兄姐妹解释，但也是为了我们自己，这样我们就能清楚地理解教会关于炼狱这个主题的教导。
- start: 251.445
  end: 252.245
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay?
  zh: 好吗？
- start: 252.62
  end: 256.742
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, I've divided tonight's talk into four major parts.
  zh: 所以，我把今晚的讲座分为四个主要部分。
- start: 256.942
  end: 262.745
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Our first part will simply be the Church's teaching on the reality of Purgatory.
  zh: 我们的第一部分将简单介绍教会关于炼狱现实性的教导。
- start: 262.745
  end: 266.687
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That will be sort of our catechetical part of tonight's talk.
  zh: 这将是今晚讲座的教理讲授部分。
- start: 266.687
  end: 278.793
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Looking at nine catechetical points about the topic of Purgatory, drawing from the Catechism of the Catholic Church and a few other magisterial texts.
  zh: 我们将从《公教会教理》和其他一些训导文献中，探讨关于炼狱主题的九个教理要点。
- start: 279.224
  end: 286.449
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Secondly, we'll look at the biblical evidence for purgatory, and that'll be the crux of tonight's talk.
  zh: 第二，我们将查看炼狱的圣经依据，这将是今晚讲座的核心。
- start: 286.81
  end: 292.534
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We will probably pause in the middle of that section of the talk to take our break this evening.
  zh: 我们可能会在讲座的这一部分中间休息一下。
- start: 292.775
  end: 306.946
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so we'll just simply look at three sets of data that we have from the Bible that sort of establishes the biblical basis for the doctrine of purgatory.
  zh: 我们将简单看看圣经中的三组资料，这些资料为炼狱教义建立了圣经基础。
- start: 307.026
  end: 324.739
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And in our third part for tonight's talk, we'll answer a few common objections that often arise from our Protestant brothers and sisters and offer an explanation or an answer to those objections or just common questions that are asked.
  zh: 在今晚讲座的第三部分，我们将回答新教弟兄姐妹经常提出的一些常见反对意见，并对这些反对意见或常见问题提供解释或答案。
- start: 324.739
  end: 329.562
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And then finally, we'll look at the evidence from the early church fathers.
  zh: 最后，我们将查看来自教父的证据。
- start: 329.642
  end: 343.392
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And look at a few quotes from some of those Christians from the early centuries of Christianity and see what they had to say about this Catholic understanding of the reality of purgatory.
  zh: 我们将看看早期基督教世纪的一些基督徒的引述，看看他们对这个公教会对炼狱现实性的理解有什么看法。
- start: 343.392
  end: 345.533
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, let's dive right in.
  zh: 那么，让我们直接开始吧。
- start: 346.014
  end: 351.02
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: With part number one, the church's teaching on the reality of purgatory.
  zh: 第一部分是教会关于炼狱现实性的教导。
- start: 351.02
  end: 359.41
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: As I mentioned, there are nine catechetical points that I want us to walk through coming from the catechism about purgatory.
  zh: 如我所说，我想带领大家了解教理中关于炼狱的九个教理要点。
- start: 359.41
  end: 364.696
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The first catechetical point has to do with the definition of purgatory.
  zh: 第一个教理要点与炼狱的定义有关。
- start: 365.206
  end: 380.106
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In paragraph 1031, 1030 to 1031, basically what we find is that the Catechism defines purgatory as the final purification of the elect after death.
  zh: 在第1031段，1030到1031段，我们基本上发现《教理》将炼狱定义为选民死后的最后净化。
- start: 382.347
  end: 387.409
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: the final purification of the elect after death.
  zh: 选民死后的最后净化。
- start: 387.409
  end: 402.696
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Here's what the Catechism states, paragraph 1030, quote, ...all who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified or indeed assured of their salvation.
  zh: 《教理》第1030段是这样说的：「所有在神的恩宠和友谊中死去，但尚未完全净化的人，虽然确实已获得救恩。」
- start: 403.036
  end: 412.447
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But after death, they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.
  zh: 「但在死后，他们要经过净化，以达到进入天堂喜乐所必需的圣洁。」
- start: 412.447
  end: 423.158
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then in paragraph 1031, the Catechism states, ...the Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect.
  zh: 然后在第1031段，《教理》说：「教会给选民这最后的净化取名为炼狱。」
- start: 423.358
  end: 436.566
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, now that little brief synopsis of the doctrine of purgatory is loaded and it's packed and we're going to try to unpack it as we go throughout tonight's talk with the other catechetical points.
  zh: 好的，现在这个关于炼狱教义的简短概述内容丰富，我们将在今晚讲座的其他教理要点中逐一解释。
- start: 436.566
  end: 438.827
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But I just want to start with the definition.
  zh: 但我想先从定义开始。
- start: 439.028
  end: 445.156
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: A final purification of the elect after death.
  zh: 选民死后的最后净化。
- start: 445.156
  end: 446.156
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay?
  zh: 明白吗？
- start: 446.157
  end: 448.539
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's all that the catechism gives us.
  zh: 这就是《教理》给我们的全部定义。
- start: 448.6
  end: 452.765
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now let's proceed to unpack that and see what does that mean.
  zh: 现在让我们继续解释，看看这意味着什么。
- start: 452.765
  end: 455.809
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This leads us to catechetical point number two.
  zh: 这就引出了第二个教理要点。
- start: 456.661
  end: 460.584
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: which has to do with the object of the purification.
  zh: 这与净化的对象有关。
- start: 460.584
  end: 466.529
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In other words, what is purified in the afterlife?
  zh: 换句话说，在来世要净化什么？
- start: 466.529
  end: 472.733
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, well, we say the soul, but what is the soul being purified of in the afterlife?
  zh: 你知道，我们说是灵魂，但在来世灵魂要被净化什么？
- start: 472.773
  end: 477.356
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, basically, the purification of purgatory consists of two things.
  zh: 基本上，炼狱的净化包含两个方面。
- start: 477.757
  end: 489.384
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It consists of the removal of the guilt of venial sin and  The temporal punishment that's due for sin.
  zh: 它包括消除小罪的罪责和因罪而当受的暂时惩罚。
- start: 489.384
  end: 492.345
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The remaining temporal punishment due for sin.
  zh: 因罪而当受的剩余暂时惩罚。
- start: 492.345
  end: 499.848
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, once again, that's loaded right there because we're talking about two other elements of the mysteries of our faith.
  zh: 现在，这里又涉及到我们信仰奥秘的另外两个要素。
- start: 499.848
  end: 501.969
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Temporal punishment due for sin.
  zh: 因罪而当受的暂时惩罚。
- start: 501.969
  end: 504.47
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We're talking about venial and mortal sin.
  zh: 我们在谈论小罪和致死的罪。
- start: 504.47
  end: 508.451
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We're going to get to those things as we go through tonight's talk.
  zh: 我们将在今晚的讲座中讨论这些内容。
- start: 508.451
  end: 526.523
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But right now, I just want to emphasize that the two things that are purified in the final purification after death we call purgatory is the removal of the guilt of venial sin and or the remaining temporary punishment due for sin.
  zh: 但现在，我只想强调我们称为炼狱的死后最后净化所净化的两件事：消除小罪的罪责和因罪而当受的剩余暂时惩罚。
- start: 527.58
  end: 537.27
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In paragraph 1031, the Catechism states the following in reference to the guilt of venial sin being removed.
  zh: 在第1031段中，《教理》关于小罪罪责的消除是这样说的。
- start: 537.27
  end: 546.439
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Catechism states all who die in God's grace and friendship but still imperfectly purified.
  zh: 《教理》说所有在神的恩宠和友谊中死去，但尚未完全净化的人。
- start: 546.439
  end: 547.76
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Pause right there.
  zh: 在这里停一下。
- start: 548.76
  end: 555.33
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If we die in God's grace and friendship, that means we're saved, right?
  zh: 如果我们在神的恩宠和友谊中死去，这意味着我们得救了，对吗？
- start: 555.43
  end: 558.014
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We're guaranteed heaven.
  zh: 我们确保能上天堂。
- start: 558.375
  end: 564.163
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the Catechism mentions how a soul can die in friendship with God and in His grace, but...
  zh: 但《教理》提到灵魂如何能在与神的友谊和恩宠中死去，但是……
- start: 564.284
  end: 569.609
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, the answer to that question is the guilt of venial sin.
  zh: 这个问题的答案就是小罪的罪责。
- start: 584.404
  end: 596.987
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: As we understand, as our faith teaches us, venial sin does not destroy God's grace in the soul, but it simply weakens it, and it makes us imperfect, right?
  zh: 正如我们理解的，正如我们的信仰教导我们的，小罪并不会摧毁灵魂中神的恩宠，但会削弱它，使我们不完全，对吗？
- start: 597.307
  end: 610.13
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So when the Catechism refers to those dying in God's grace and friendship, but yet still being imperfectly purified, that's what the Church is referring to, the guilt of venial sin.
  zh: 所以当《教理》提到那些在神的恩宠和友谊中死去，但仍未完全净化的人时，教会指的就是小罪的罪责。
- start: 610.61
  end: 622.783
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then, the Catechism goes on to quote Pope St. Gregory the Great in the late 6th century.
  zh: 然后，《教理》引用了六世纪末大贵格利教宗的话。
- start: 622.783
  end: 625.105
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I have to make sure I got my century right there.
  zh: 我必须确保我说的世纪是对的。
- start: 625.185
  end: 631.731
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In the late 6th century, Pope Gregory the Great says the following, ...as for certain lesser faults...
  zh: 在六世纪末，大贵格利教宗说：「至于某些较小的过错……」
- start: 631.972
  end: 639.179
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We must believe that before the final judgment, there is a purifying fire.
  zh: 「我们必须相信在最后审判之前，有一种净化的火。」
- start: 639.179
  end: 640.419
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay?
  zh: 明白吗？
- start: 640.5
  end: 643.883
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, I want to emphasize the lesser faults.
  zh: 现在，我要强调这些较小的过错。
- start: 644.083
  end: 647.146
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What is Pope St. Gregory the Great referring to here?
  zh: 大贵格利教宗在这里指的是什么？
- start: 647.206
  end: 648.607
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Venial sin.
  zh: 小罪。
- start: 648.908
  end: 651.67
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So notice how purgatory...
  zh: 所以注意炼狱是如何……
- start: 653.951
  end: 657.173
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And when we're talking about purifying fire, we'll get to that.
  zh: 当我们谈到净化之火时，我们会讨论到这点。
- start: 657.173
  end: 663.936
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And the nature of fire, and is it real, is it just metaphor, and all of this good stuff, we'll get to that later on in tonight's talk.
  zh: 关于火的本质，它是真实的还是只是比喻，以及所有这些好东西，我们会在今晚的讲座后面讨论到。
- start: 663.936
  end: 666.717
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But I want to emphasize here the lesser faults.
  zh: 但我想在这里强调这些较小的过错。
- start: 666.717
  end: 669.398
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This is what purgatory is dealing with.
  zh: 这就是炼狱所处理的。
- start: 669.398
  end: 671.959
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The guilt of venial sin.
  zh: 小罪的罪责。
- start: 671.959
  end: 676.181
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because venial sin makes us imperfect, although...
  zh: 因为小罪使我们不完全，虽然……
- start: 676.402
  end: 679.947
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We still remain in God's friendship and God's grace.
  zh: 我们仍然保持在神的友谊和恩宠中。
- start: 680.108
  end: 684.013
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That is what the final purification is dealing with.
  zh: 这就是最后净化所处理的。
- start: 684.114
  end: 685.957
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The guilt of venial sin.
  zh: 小罪的罪责。
- start: 686.078
  end: 687.74
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, as I stated...
  zh: 现在，如我所说……
- start: 688.504
  end: 698.147
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The final purification is also purifying the soul of any remaining temporal punishment due for sin.
  zh: 最后的净化也是在净化灵魂中因罪而当受的任何剩余暂时惩罚。
- start: 698.287
  end: 706.149
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That temporal punishment due for sin is taken care of in this final purification we call purgatory.
  zh: 这因罪而当受的暂时惩罚在我们称为炼狱的最后净化中得到处理。
- start: 706.149
  end: 709.85
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And the Catechism addresses this particular aspect.
  zh: 《教理》讨论了这个特定方面。
- start: 710.01
  end: 725.763
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: of the final purification, in paragraph 1472 on through 1473. But I'm just going to share with you paragraph 1472. Here's what the Catechism states, quote, ...sin has a double consequence.
  zh: 关于最后净化，在第1472到1473段。但我只和你们分享第1472段。《教理》是这样说的：「罪有双重后果。」
- start: 726.344
  end: 748.091
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Grave sin, that is mortal sin, and what the church means is mortal sin meaning that grave serious offense against God that when committed with full knowledge and full consent,  destroys God's friendship, destroys grace or charity in the soul, okay?
  zh: 大罪，就是致死的罪，教会所说的致死的罪是指那种严重冒犯神的罪，当人在完全知情和完全同意的情况下犯下这种罪时，就会破坏与神的友谊，破坏灵魂中的恩宠或爱德，明白吗？
- start: 748.091
  end: 762.815
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the eternal punishment of sin.
  zh: 所以，大罪使我们失去与神的共融，因此使我们无法获得永生，这种剥夺被称为罪的永罚。
- start: 762.815
  end: 765.556
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And obviously the church is referring to hell there, right?
  zh: 显然教会在这里指的是地狱，对吧？
- start: 765.556
  end: 768.717
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So notice the first, eternal punishment.
  zh: 所以注意第一个，永罚。
- start: 768.817
  end: 771.238
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: On the other hand, it continues...
  zh: 另一方面，它继续说……
- start: 772.344
  end: 790.995
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: On the other hand, every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth or after death in the state called purgatory.
  zh: 另一方面，每一个罪，即使是小罪，都会带来对受造物的不健康依恋，这种依恋必须在今世或死后在称为炼狱的状态中得到净化。
- start: 791.295
  end: 795.578
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So notice that when we sin, two-fold consequence.
  zh: 所以注意当我们犯罪时，有两重后果。
- start: 795.578
  end: 810.608
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's the eternal consequence, eternal punishment, but every sin, whether it's mortal or venial, is going to cause some sort of unhealthy attachment to something of the created order.
  zh: 有永恒的后果，永罚，但每一个罪，无论是致死的罪还是小罪，都会导致对某种受造秩序的不健康依恋。
- start: 810.608
  end: 816.932
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Whether it be something external to us, like a created good or material possession, or even ourselves, right?
  zh: 无论是外在的事物，比如受造的善或物质财产，还是我们自己，对吧？
- start: 816.932
  end: 822.015
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: An unhealthy attachment to ourselves, a disordered self-love.
  zh: 对我们自己的不健康依恋，一种失序的自爱。
- start: 822.015
  end: 828.759
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And that unhealthy attachment is what is being purified in the final purification.
  zh: 这种不健康的依恋就是在最后净化中被净化的。
- start: 828.759
  end: 844.126
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That is, if we die with venial sin, that venial sin causing an unhealthy attachment to created goods, that unhealthy attachment must be purified, either in this life or in the next, in this state we call purification.
  zh: 也就是说，如果我们带着小罪死去，这小罪导致对受造物的不健康依恋，这种不健康的依恋必须在今世或来世，在我们称为净化的状态中得到净化。
- start: 844.675
  end: 855.862
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Catechism goes on and states, ...this purification frees one from what is called the temporal punishment of sin.
  zh: 《教理》接着说：「这种净化使人摆脱所谓的罪的暂罚。」
- start: 856.943
  end: 859.665
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: These two punishments, what two punishments?
  zh: 这两种惩罚，是哪两种惩罚？
- start: 859.665
  end: 863.247
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The eternal punishment and the temporal punishment.
  zh: 永罚和暂罚。
- start: 863.267
  end: 872.213
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, right?
  zh: 这两种惩罚不能被理解为神从外部施加的某种报复，对吧？
- start: 872.213
  end: 873.854
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The tyrant God...
  zh: 暴君般的神……
- start: 874.514
  end: 879.117
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The slave master, that's not how we view this idea of punishment.
  zh: 奴隶主，这不是我们理解惩罚的方式。
- start: 879.117
  end: 884.801
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But, it goes on to say, as following from the very nature of sin.
  zh: 但是，接着说，这是源于罪本身的本质。
- start: 884.801
  end: 885.742
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Close quote.
  zh: 引文结束。
- start: 885.742
  end: 889.484
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So the idea is that sin has consequences.
  zh: 所以这个概念是罪有其后果。
- start: 889.505
  end: 894.648
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There is an eternal consequence of sin, for grave sin, for mortal sin.
  zh: 对于大罪，对于致死的罪，有永恒的后果。
- start: 894.768
  end: 900.27
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But even for venial sins, there's a temporal consequence as well.
  zh: 但即使是小罪，也有暂时的后果。
- start: 900.271
  end: 901.191
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 901.191
  end: 904.612
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because man has sinned, folks, right?
  zh: 因为人犯了罪，各位，对吧？
- start: 904.813
  end: 909.354
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You see, when I sin against God, let's just say, for example, mortal sin.
  zh: 你看，当我得罪神时，比如说，致死的罪。
- start: 909.675
  end: 915.097
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When I sin against God with a grave sin, that merits eternal punishment.
  zh: 当我用大罪得罪神时，这就应得永罚。
- start: 915.455
  end: 917.176
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Separation from God.
  zh: 与神隔绝。
- start: 917.557
  end: 921.759
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I cannot cross that chasm of separation from God.
  zh: 我无法跨越这与神隔绝的鸿沟。
- start: 922.08
  end: 930.165
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Only God can repair that through His mercy, through His grace, through the merits of the cross of Christ, right?
  zh: 只有神能通过他的怜悯，通过他的恩典，通过基督十字架的功劳来修复这个，对吧？
- start: 930.205
  end: 934.849
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So Jesus, in His infinite power, takes care of what I cannot.
  zh: 所以耶稣以他无限的能力，处理了我无法处理的事。
- start: 934.849
  end: 936.51
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The eternal consequence.
  zh: 永恒的后果。
- start: 936.51
  end: 939.031
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Wipes that away through repentance.
  zh: 通过悔改将其抹去。
- start: 939.152
  end: 943.675
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But there is a temporal consequence that remains...
  zh: 但仍然存在暂时的后果……
- start: 943.993
  end: 945.113
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: for sin.
  zh: 因为罪。
- start: 945.654
  end: 946.294
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 946.294
  end: 948.475
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because man has sinned.
  zh: 因为人犯了罪。
- start: 948.935
  end: 955.078
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I have sinned, and so therefore there is something I must do to repair or make up for sin.
  zh: 我犯了罪，所以我必须做些什么来修补或弥补罪过。
- start: 955.078
  end: 957.999
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This is where the idea of penance comes into play, right?
  zh: 这就是补赎的概念发挥作用的地方，对吧？
- start: 957.999
  end: 967.062
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When you go to confession, bless me Father for I have sinned, and O Padre absolves you in the name of the Father and Son of the Holy Spirit, and he gives you those prayers to pray as your penance.
  zh: 当你去告解时，说「神父，请降福，我犯了罪」，神父因父及子及圣灵之名赦免你的罪，并给你一些祷文作为补赎。
- start: 967.142
  end: 968.043
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 968.043
  end: 972.706
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because  Man has sinned, and so there's a temporal consequence.
  zh: 因为人犯了罪，所以有暂时的后果。
- start: 972.707
  end: 980.935
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And when man performs these acts of love or charity or prayers, it's making up for that sin.
  zh: 当人做这些爱德的行为或祈祷时，就是在弥补那罪过。
- start: 980.935
  end: 985.94
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's satisfying the temporal punishment due for sin.
  zh: 这是在偿还因罪而当受的暂罚。
- start: 985.94
  end: 991.485
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's purifying the unhealthy attachment to created goods, right?
  zh: 这是在净化对受造物的不健康依恋，对吧？
- start: 991.706
  end: 998.198
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So this is what the church is referring to by temporal punishment due for sin.
  zh: 所以这就是教会所说的因罪而当受的暂罚。
- start: 998.198
  end: 1000.401
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Although the guilt may be removed.
  zh: 虽然罪责可能被消除。
- start: 1000.578
  end: 1002.98
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: a temporal consequence still remains.
  zh: 暂时的后果仍然存在。
- start: 1003.32
  end: 1006.723
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And we have to satisfy that temporal punishment.
  zh: 我们必须偿还那暂罚。
- start: 1006.723
  end: 1013.749
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We have to make up for that sin in this temporal punishment or this temporal consequence that we're talking about.
  zh: 我们必须在这个我们所说的暂罚或暂时后果中弥补那罪过。
- start: 1013.749
  end: 1016.711
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And that's what purgatory has to do with.
  zh: 这就是炼狱所要处理的。
- start: 1016.832
  end: 1027.961
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So purgatory, this final purification of the elect after death, removes the guilt of venial sin that remains on the soul at death who dies in friendship with Christ.
  zh: 所以炼狱，这选民死后的最后净化，消除了那些在与基督的友谊中死去的灵魂所残留的小罪罪责。
- start: 1028.667
  end: 1037.858
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: and or purifies the soul from unhealthy attachments to created goods, which is the temporal consequence for sin.
  zh: 并且或者净化灵魂摆脱对受造物的不健康依恋，这就是罪的暂时后果。
- start: 1037.858
  end: 1039.66
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Does that make sense?
  zh: 这说得通吗？
- start: 1040.274
  end: 1053.425
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I think the key phrase from the Catechism is when it states, these forms of punishment are not to be conceived as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without.
  zh: 我认为《教理》中的关键句子是说，这些惩罚形式不应被理解为神从外部施加的某种报复。
- start: 1053.425
  end: 1056.667
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You bad boy, you, so God's going to punish you, right?
  zh: 你这个坏孩子，所以神要惩罚你，对吧？
- start: 1056.767
  end: 1059.069
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, the Church is trying to reshape.
  zh: 不，教会正试图重塑这种理解。
- start: 1059.069
  end: 1061.011
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, are there some who think that?
  zh: 现在，是否有人是这样想的？
- start: 1061.011
  end: 1062.352
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Are there some who teach that?
  zh: 是否有人是这样教导的？
- start: 1062.352
  end: 1063.513
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Are there some who believe that?
  zh: 是否有人是这样相信的？
- start: 1063.513
  end: 1064.273
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yes.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 1064.293
  end: 1073.131
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But what the church is trying to do is to get us to see that the punishment for sin doesn't come from without, it comes from the very nature of sin.
  zh: 但教会试图让我们看到，罪的惩罚不是来自外部，而是来自罪本身的本质。
- start: 1073.131
  end: 1075.554
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so when we sin...
  zh: 所以当我们犯罪时……
- start: 1076.164
  end: 1078.865
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's a consequence, eternal and temporal.
  zh: 有后果，永恒的和暂时的。
- start: 1079.185
  end: 1082.466
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If it's eternal, only Christ can take care of that.
  zh: 如果是永恒的，只有基督能处理。
- start: 1082.566
  end: 1091.649
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But we can take care of the temporal by the grace of God, through acts of charity, and as we're going to see, through suffering, etc. So this is what purgatory is dealing with.
  zh: 但通过神的恩典，我们可以通过爱德的行为，以及我们将要看到的，通过苦难等来处理暂时的后果。这就是炼狱所处理的。
- start: 1091.649
  end: 1097.911
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Final purification of the guilt or the removal of venial sin, and also satisfying the temporal punishment due for sin.
  zh: 最后净化罪责或消除小罪，并且偿还因罪而当受的暂罚。
- start: 1097.911
  end: 1100.612
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, catechetical point number three.
  zh: 好，第三个教理要点。
- start: 1101.096
  end: 1105.321
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Catechetical point number three has to do with the subject of the purification.
  zh: 第三个教理要点与净化的主体有关。
- start: 1105.321
  end: 1108.525
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In other words, who's in purgatory?
  zh: 换句话说，谁在炼狱里？
- start: 1109.867
  end: 1114.252
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you're in purgatory, can you go to hell?
  zh: 如果你在炼狱里，你会下地狱吗？
- start: 1114.252
  end: 1115.794
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Are you guaranteed heaven?
  zh: 你确保能上天堂吗？
- start: 1115.794
  end: 1117.636
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Who's the object of the purification?
  zh: 谁是净化的对象？
- start: 1117.636
  end: 1119.498
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, only the elect.
  zh: 只有选民。
- start: 1125.16
  end: 1126.541
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Only the elect.
  zh: 只有选民。
- start: 1126.541
  end: 1127.922
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What do I mean by the elect?
  zh: 我说的选民是什么意思？
- start: 1127.922
  end: 1129.523
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The saved ones, right?
  zh: 得救的人，对吧？
- start: 1129.523
  end: 1130.844
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Here's what the Catechism states.
  zh: 这是《教理》所说的。
- start: 1130.844
  end: 1139.531
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Once again, going back to paragraph 1030, the Catechism states, ...all who die in God's grace and friendship...
  zh: 再次回到第1030段，《教理》说：「所有在神的恩宠和友谊中死去的人……」
- start: 1139.711
  end: 1143.074
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Hey, if you die in God's grace and friendship, guess what?
  zh: 嘿，如果你在神的恩宠和友谊中死去，你猜怎么着？
- start: 1143.334
  end: 1144.995
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You a saved one.
  zh: 你是得救的人。
- start: 1145.316
  end: 1146.777
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You're saved.
  zh: 你得救了。
- start: 1147.077
  end: 1151.961
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: '...but still imperfectly purified, or indeed assured of their eternal salvation.'
  zh: 「……但尚未完全净化，虽然确实已获得永恒的救恩。」
- start: 1153.246
  end: 1157.908
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Paragraph 1031, the church gives the name purgatory to the final purification of the elect.
  zh: 第1031段，教会给选民这最后的净化取名为炼狱。
- start: 1157.908
  end: 1163.991
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So the souls in purgatory, my dear friends, have eternal security.
  zh: 所以，我亲爱的朋友们，在炼狱中的灵魂有永恒的保障。
- start: 1164.771
  end: 1167.833
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They are assured of their salvation.
  zh: 他们确信自己的救恩。
- start: 1167.833
  end: 1172.475
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They know without a doubt they're on their way to the beatific vision.
  zh: 他们毫无疑问地知道他们正在走向真福直观。
- start: 1173.243
  end: 1178.206
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, there are two truths that we can sort of deduce from this.
  zh: 现在，我们可以从中推导出两个真理。
- start: 1178.206
  end: 1182.228
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Number one, purgatory does not affect a chance, folks.
  zh: 第一，各位，炼狱不是一个机会。
- start: 1182.609
  end: 1185.351
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Contrary to common belief.
  zh: 与普遍的看法相反。
- start: 1185.351
  end: 1192.175
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Not only among our Protestant brothers and sisters, but among our Catholic brothers and sisters as well.
  zh: 不仅在我们的新教弟兄姐妹中，在我们的公教弟兄姐妹中也是如此。
- start: 1192.395
  end: 1194.016
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, many people...
  zh: 你知道，很多人……
- start: 1194.606
  end: 1207.612
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: misconceive this idea and think, well, you know, I don't have to quite live that holy in this life because I can slip into purgatory there and not get my little second chance, right?
  zh: 误解这个概念，认为，你知道，我在今生不需要那么圣洁，因为我可以溜进炼狱得到第二次机会，对吧？
- start: 1208.393
  end: 1210.114
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Absolutely not!
  zh: 绝对不是！
- start: 1210.114
  end: 1210.914
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay?
  zh: 明白吗？
- start: 1210.914
  end: 1218.978
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And I think this was a fundamental reason that caused this Protestant guy that I was dialoguing with to reject purgatory.
  zh: 我认为这就是导致我对话的那位新教徒拒绝炼狱的根本原因。
- start: 1218.978
  end: 1221.439
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He  wasn't rejecting purgatory.
  zh: 他其实不是在拒绝炼狱。
- start: 1221.44
  end: 1229.526
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He was rejecting a false idea of purgatory because he thought it was like this second chance theology, right?
  zh: 他是在拒绝一个错误的炼狱概念，因为他认为这像是一个第二次机会的神学，对吧？
- start: 1229.526
  end: 1237.251
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, folks, as the Catholic Church has always taught, as the Bible teaches, when you die, that's it.
  zh: 不，各位，正如公教会一直教导的，正如圣经教导的，当你死时，就是这样了。
- start: 1237.332
  end: 1239.693
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Your eternity is sealed.
  zh: 你的永恒就此确定。
- start: 1239.894
  end: 1255.584
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Your eternity will either be heaven or hell because you either die in friendship with Christ or you don't.  If you don't die in friendship with Christ, well then you're eternally separated from Christ, and that state of existence we call hell.
  zh: 你的永恒不是天堂就是地狱，因为你要么在与基督的友谊中死去，要么不是。如果你不是在与基督的友谊中死去，那么你就永远与基督隔绝，我们称这种存在状态为地狱。
- start: 1255.865
  end: 1264.653
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But if you die in friendship with Christ, you're either going to be perfectly purified and go straight into the beatific vision, or you won't be perfectly purified.
  zh: 但如果你在与基督的友谊中死去，你要么已经完全净化并直接进入真福直观，要么尚未完全净化。
- start: 1264.653
  end: 1267.436
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And if you're not perfectly purified, well guess what?
  zh: 如果你还没有完全净化，你猜怎么着？
- start: 1267.436
  end: 1269.978
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's this final purification.
  zh: 还有这最后的净化。
- start: 1270.271
  end: 1272.332
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: before entering into the glory of God.
  zh: 在进入神的荣耀之前。
- start: 1272.332
  end: 1274.294
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So it's not a second chance.
  zh: 所以这不是第二次机会。
- start: 1274.294
  end: 1287.622
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Second truth that we can deduce, the souls in purgatory are, as the Catechism stated, assured of their salvation, which is a cause for great peace and joy.
  zh: 我们可以推导出的第二个真理是，如《教理》所说，在炼狱中的灵魂确信他们的救恩，这是极大平安和喜乐的原因。
- start: 1288.334
  end: 1294.837
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, there are many Christians today who go around teaching that, you know, we can be assured of our salvation.
  zh: 你知道，今天有许多基督徒到处教导说，你知道，我们可以确信我们的救恩。
- start: 1294.958
  end: 1295.978
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Eternal security.
  zh: 永恒的保障。
- start: 1295.978
  end: 1298.44
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do you know, brother, that you're saved, right?
  zh: 弟兄，你知道你得救了，对吧？
- start: 1298.72
  end: 1303.002
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 1 John 5, verse 13, St. John said, you can know you're saved.
  zh: 约翰一书5章13节，圣约翰说，你可以知道你得救了。
- start: 1303.323
  end: 1305.304
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, he wasn't talking about an absolute certainty.
  zh: 嗯，他说的不是绝对的确定性。
- start: 1305.304
  end: 1309.986
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He was talking about a confident knowledge, but that's another topic for another time.
  zh: 他说的是一种有把握的认知，但这是另一个时候要讨论的话题。
- start: 1309.986
  end: 1311.047
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But folks...
  zh: 但是各位……
- start: 1311.347
  end: 1316.55
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In this life, we don't have an assurance of our salvation.
  zh: 在今生，我们没有救恩的确据。
- start: 1316.571
  end: 1323.215
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We don't know without a doubt that we're going to make it to the end and die in friendship with Christ.
  zh: 我们不能毫无疑问地知道我们会坚持到最后并在与基督的友谊中死去。
- start: 1323.215
  end: 1324.275
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But guess what?
  zh: 但你猜怎么着？
- start: 1324.276
  end: 1326.997
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In purgatory, you know.
  zh: 在炼狱中，你就知道了。
- start: 1326.997
  end: 1330.019
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's when you can know you're going to heaven.
  zh: 那时你就能知道你要上天堂了。
- start: 1330.019
  end: 1335.663
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's when you're going to have eternal security and be assured of your salvation.
  zh: 那时你就会有永恒的保障并确信你的救恩。
- start: 1335.663
  end: 1345.547
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So it's very important for us as Catholics to understand that, especially when talking to our Protestant family members and friends who often have a misconceived idea about this.
  zh: 所以对我们公教徒来说，理解这一点很重要，特别是在与经常对此有误解的新教家人和朋友交谈时。
- start: 1345.547
  end: 1347.908
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This is not second chance.
  zh: 这不是第二次机会。
- start: 1347.908
  end: 1350.429
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The souls in purgatory are saved.
  zh: 在炼狱中的灵魂是得救的。
- start: 1350.729
  end: 1352.029
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They're the elect.
  zh: 他们是选民。
- start: 1352.17
  end: 1354.071
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They're assured of salvation.
  zh: 他们确信得救。
- start: 1354.071
  end: 1356.531
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Their names are written in the book of life.
  zh: 他们的名字写在生命册上。
- start: 1356.532
  end: 1357.392
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Amen?
  zh: 阿们？
- start: 1357.652
  end: 1362.894
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, so can the souls in purgatory eventually at one point in time go to hell?
  zh: 好，那么在炼狱中的灵魂最终会在某个时候下地狱吗？
- start: 1363.339
  end: 1365.664
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, they're assured of their salvation.
  zh: 不会，他们确信得救。
- start: 1365.886
  end: 1372.161
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Moving on to catechetical point number four, which basically has to do with the weight of the teaching.
  zh: 进入第四个教理要点，这基本上与教导的分量有关。
- start: 1372.521
  end: 1377.763
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In other words, what is the status of this teaching on purgatory?
  zh: 换句话说，这个关于炼狱的教导的地位是什么？
- start: 1377.763
  end: 1387.585
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Is this simply theological opinion where it's up for debate about the existence and the reality of this final purification?
  zh: 这仅仅是一个神学观点，关于这最后净化的存在和现实可以争论吗？
- start: 1387.585
  end: 1390.346
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Or is this something of the level of dogma?
  zh: 还是说这是教条层面的事情？
- start: 1390.346
  end: 1397.208
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And part of our Catholic faith is what the theologians call De Fide, that is, it's of the faith.
  zh: 而且我们公教信仰的一部分就是神学家所说的「信德」，也就是说，这是信仰的一部分。
- start: 1397.348
  end: 1400.011
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, the answer is that it's de fide.
  zh: 答案是，这确实是信德。
- start: 1400.011
  end: 1408.297
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The teaching of purgatory is a dogma of our Catholic faith, and therefore has the weight of infallibility.
  zh: 炼狱的教导是我们公教信仰的一个教条，因此具有无误性的分量。
- start: 1408.297
  end: 1411.4
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's an infallible teaching of our Catholic faith.
  zh: 这是我们公教信仰的一个无误教导。
- start: 1411.4
  end: 1435.405
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Catechism affirms this in paragraph 1031.  When it states, the church formulated her doctrine of faith on purgatory, especially, that means not limited to, but especially at the councils of Florence, which was in 14, around the year 1439, and the council of Trent, which was a three year, I think it was three years, right Father?
  zh: 《教理》在第1031段确认了这一点。当它说，教会制定了她关于炼狱的信仰教义，特别是（这意味着不限于，但特别是）在佛罗伦萨会议，也就是1439年左右，和特伦特会议，那是三年，我想是三年，对吧神父？
- start: 1436.366
  end: 1441.772
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 1563 to 1565, or 62 to 65, I can't quite remember.
  zh: 1563年到1565年，或者62年到65年，我记不太清了。
- start: 1441.933
  end: 1444.095
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But it's within that general time frame.
  zh: 但就在那个大致的时间范围内。
- start: 1444.335
  end: 1454.907
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now what's interesting is that the Council of Florence was not the only time when the church spoke definitively on the existence and the reality of purgatory.
  zh: 现在有趣的是，佛罗伦萨会议并不是教会唯一一次明确谈论炼狱的存在和现实的时候。
- start: 1454.907
  end: 1465.716
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The catechism already referenced Pope St. Gregory the Great in the late 6th century when he spoke of the lesser faults needing to be purified before entering into heaven.
  zh: 《教理》已经提到了六世纪末的教宗圣大额我略，当时他谈到较小的过错在进入天堂前需要被净化。
- start: 1465.716
  end: 1480.39
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We also have a magisterial teaching from Pope Innocent IV in 1254.  Then the Second Council of Lyon in 1274 gave a definitive teaching on the existence and the reality of purgatory.
  zh: 我们还有1254年英诺森四世教宗的训导教导。然后1274年的第二次里昂会议对炼狱的存在和现实给出了明确的教导。
- start: 1480.39
  end: 1490.579
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Pope Benedict XII in 1336 would actually definitively speak on the existence and the reality of purgatory.
  zh: 1336年本笃十二世教宗实际上也明确地谈到了炼狱的存在和现实。
- start: 1490.599
  end: 1499.608
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It was given a formal definition, solemnly defined, particularly at the Council of Florence, and then reaffirmed at the Council of Trent.
  zh: 它在佛罗伦萨会议上得到了正式的定义，庄严地确定下来，然后在特伦特会议上得到重申。
- start: 1499.608
  end: 1508.257
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So I just want to share with you a text or a quote from the Council of Trent, just to sort of give you an idea or a taste for what Trent was saying.
  zh: 所以我想和你们分享特伦特会议的一段文本或引文，让你们大致了解特伦特会议说了什么。
- start: 1509.554
  end: 1515.578
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: '...since the Catholic Church instructed by the Holy Spirit in conformity with the sacred writings...'
  zh: 「……因为公教会在圣灵的指导下，根据圣经……」
- start: 1515.759
  end: 1517.2
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, that's scripture.
  zh: 所以，那是圣经。
- start: 1517.32
  end: 1519.722
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: '...and the ancient tradition of the Fathers...'
  zh: 「……和教父们的古老传统……」
- start: 1519.722
  end: 1521.003
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Sacred tradition.
  zh: 圣传。
- start: 1521.003
  end: 1529.13
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: '...in sacred councils, and very recently in this ecumenical synod, has taught that there is a purgatory.'
  zh: 「……在神圣的会议中，以及最近在这次大公会议中，教导说有炼狱。」
- start: 1529.31
  end: 1545.965
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So the Council of Trent is affirming that the reality of purgatory is taught by sacred writings, that is scripture, and it's also taught in our sacred tradition, witnessed by the early church fathers and also the councils, the ecumenical councils preceding Trent.
  zh: 所以特伦特会议确认炼狱的现实是由圣经所教导的，也就是圣经，而且也在我们的圣传中教导，由早期教父和特伦特会议之前的大公会议见证。
- start: 1546.246
  end: 1568.799
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It goes on to state, the Holy Synod commands the bishops that they insist that  that the sound doctrine of purgatory, which has been transmitted by the Holy Fathers and Holy Councils, be believed by the faithful of Christ, be maintained, taught, and everywhere preached.
  zh: 接着说，神圣会议命令主教们坚持要求基督的信徒相信、维护、教导并到处宣讲这个由圣教父和神圣会议所传递的关于炼狱的正确教义。
- start: 1568.799
  end: 1579.924
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So the Council of Trent is saying it's found in Scripture, it's in sacred tradition, and then there's a binding of all the Christian faithful to believe this mystery of faith.
  zh: 所以特伦特会议说这在圣经中可以找到，在圣传中也有，而且所有基督信徒都有义务相信这个信仰奥秘。
- start: 1581.189
  end: 1585.97
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It falls at the highest level of Catholic teaching, namely dogmatic.
  zh: 它属于公教教导的最高层次，即教条性的。
- start: 1585.97
  end: 1587.251
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's a dogma.
  zh: 这是一个教条。
- start: 1587.251
  end: 1589.431
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's de fide, and it's infallible.
  zh: 这是信德，而且是无误的。
- start: 1589.431
  end: 1591.872
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, why do I emphasize that?
  zh: 现在，为什么我要强调这一点？
- start: 1592.032
  end: 1609.917
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because in my experience, I have encountered many who, for whatever reason, have a false notion that this teaching is merely theological opinion, and that it's not infallible, and that if you, as a Catholic, don't want to believe in it, you don't really have to.
  zh: 因为根据我的经验，我遇到过许多人，不管出于什么原因，都错误地认为这个教导仅仅是神学观点，不是无误的，而且如果你作为一个公教徒不想相信它，你其实不必相信。
- start: 1610.097
  end: 1611.998
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And that's just a misconception.
  zh: 这只是一个误解。
- start: 1611.998
  end: 1616.221
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: For whatever reason those individuals have taught that, I don't know.
  zh: 不知道那些人出于什么原因这样教导。
- start: 1616.421
  end: 1620.224
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But I wanted to share with you what our Catholic faith teaches.
  zh: 但我想和你们分享我们公教信仰的教导。
- start: 1620.224
  end: 1625.407
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That this is a mystery of faith that requires faith in.
  zh: 这是一个需要信仰的信仰奥秘。
- start: 1625.427
  end: 1627.328
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We must assent with divine faith.
  zh: 我们必须以信德来认同。
- start: 1627.328
  end: 1628.089
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay?
  zh: 明白吗？
- start: 1628.089
  end: 1628.749
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Alright.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 1628.749
  end: 1630.11
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Catechetical point number five.
  zh: 第五个教理要点。
- start: 1630.11
  end: 1631.351
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Moving right along.
  zh: 继续往下说。
- start: 1631.571
  end: 1635.574
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: An interesting topic that many of you, I think, will like to hear.
  zh: 一个我想你们很多人会喜欢听的有趣话题。
- start: 1635.574
  end: 1640.218
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Purgatory can be bypassed.
  zh: 炼狱是可以绕过的。
- start: 1640.218
  end: 1641.478
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Did you know that?
  zh: 你知道吗？
- start: 1641.819
  end: 1643.14
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now why is this important?
  zh: 现在为什么这很重要？
- start: 1643.14
  end: 1645.521
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's before I give you the quote from the catechism.
  zh: 这是在我给你们引用《教理》之前。
- start: 1645.521
  end: 1647.783
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because there are many, right?
  zh: 因为有很多人，对吧？
- start: 1647.783
  end: 1651.465
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There are many who will say, everybody's going to purgatory.
  zh: 有很多人会说，每个人都要去炼狱。
- start: 1651.546
  end: 1655.469
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You're going to purgatory and you're going to suffer.
  zh: 你要去炼狱，你要受苦。
- start: 1655.469
  end: 1658.992
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There are many who teach that, whether you like it or not, right?
  zh: 有很多人这样教导，不管你喜欢与否，对吧？
- start: 1658.992
  end: 1661.554
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, actually, no, that's not what the church teaches.
  zh: 但实际上，不，这不是教会的教导。
- start: 1661.554
  end: 1663.756
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We just stick with the church, right?
  zh: 我们就遵循教会的教导，对吧？
- start: 1663.756
  end: 1667.279
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The church says it is possible to bypass it.
  zh: 教会说是可能绕过它的。
- start: 1667.279
  end: 1688.116
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And here's what the catechism states in paragraph 1472. Conversion, which proceeds from a fervent charity, can attain, I repeat, can attain, that means it's possible, the complete purification of the sinner,  in such a way that no punishment would remain.
  zh: 这是《教理》第1472段所说的。出于热切爱德的皈依能够达到，我重复，能够达到，这意味着是可能的，罪人的完全净化，以至于不再有任何惩罚残留。
- start: 1688.116
  end: 1689.737
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Did you catch that?
  zh: 你们听明白了吗？
- start: 1689.777
  end: 1701.744
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So it's possible that at the moment of death, a soul could have achieved such a complete state of charity in the soul that none of that temporal punishment due to sin would remain.
  zh: 所以在死亡时刻，一个灵魂有可能达到如此完全的爱德状态，以至于不再有任何因罪而当受的暂罚残留。
- start: 1701.744
  end: 1704.106
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They would be completely purified.
  zh: 他们将完全被净化。
- start: 1704.106
  end: 1707.408
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And if they die completely purified, well then guess what?
  zh: 如果他们在完全净化的状态下死去，那么你猜怎么着？
- start: 1707.568
  end: 1711.63
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They can go straight into the beatific vision.
  zh: 他们可以直接进入真福直观。
- start: 1712.051
  end: 1715.672
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now,  Is that hard to come by?
  zh: 现在，这很难达到吗？
- start: 1716.897
  end: 1717.897
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Probably so.
  zh: 可能是的。
- start: 1717.897
  end: 1719.478
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay?
  zh: 明白吗？
- start: 1719.478
  end: 1720.818
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But it is possible.
  zh: 但这是可能的。
- start: 1720.818
  end: 1722.378
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And it's something to strive for.
  zh: 而且这是值得努力追求的。
- start: 1722.378
  end: 1723.198
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Amen?
  zh: 阿们？
- start: 1723.658
  end: 1725.099
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's something to strive for.
  zh: 这是值得努力追求的。
- start: 1725.099
  end: 1739.782
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Our church constantly exhorts us in this journey of faith to a life of sanctity, a life of holiness, works of charity, works of prayer, uniting our sufferings with the suffering of Christ.
  zh: 我们的教会在这信仰旅程中不断劝勉我们过圣洁的生活，神圣的生活，行爱德的工作，祈祷的工作，将我们的苦难与基督的苦难结合。
- start: 1739.782
  end: 1745.523
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And through all of these means, we can purify the soul.
  zh: 通过所有这些方式，我们可以净化灵魂。
- start: 1746.725
  end: 1764.525
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: and work toward, as St. Paul was saying in Philippians 2.12-13, I think it is, work out your salvation with fear and tribbling, working toward that goal of complete perfection in charity, so that if I die in that state, I can go straight into the beatific vision.
  zh: 并且努力，就像圣保罗在腓立比书2:12-13中所说的，我想是那里，要恐惧战兢地作成你们得救的工夫，朝着在爱德中完全的目标努力，这样如果我在那种状态下死去，我就可以直接进入真福直观。
- start: 1764.525
  end: 1766.587
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, possibility?
  zh: 所以，有可能吗？
- start: 1766.587
  end: 1767.467
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Indeed.
  zh: 确实。
- start: 1767.968
  end: 1769.39
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Hard to achieve it?
  zh: 很难达到吗？
- start: 1769.39
  end: 1771.492
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Hey, what did St. Paul say?
  zh: 嘿，圣保罗是怎么说的？
- start: 1771.492
  end: 1776.956
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I think it's in Philippians 4.13. St. Paul says, I can do all things, right?
  zh: 我想是在腓立比书4:13。圣保罗说，我靠着那加给我力量的，凡事都能做，对吧？
- start: 1776.977
  end: 1779.759
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In Christ who strengthens me.
  zh: 靠着那加给我力量的基督。
- start: 1779.799
  end: 1781.801
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So let's get to work, amen?
  zh: 所以让我们开始努力吧，阿们？
- start: 1785.427
  end: 1786.428
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'll preach it to myself.
  zh: 我要对自己宣讲这个。
- start: 1786.428
  end: 1787.948
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Catechetical point number six.
  zh: 第六个教理要点。
- start: 1787.948
  end: 1788.789
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Moving right along.
  zh: 继续往下说。
- start: 1788.789
  end: 1790.51
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The nature of suffering.
  zh: 苦难的本质。
- start: 1790.51
  end: 1795.913
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And this is a major sticking point when we're talking about purgatory.
  zh: 这是我们谈论炼狱时的一个主要难点。
- start: 1795.913
  end: 1798.574
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What is the nature of the suffering?
  zh: 苦难的本质是什么？
- start: 1798.954
  end: 1804.898
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: First of all, it's important to point out, purgatory does involve suffering.
  zh: 首先，重要的是要指出，炼狱确实涉及苦难。
- start: 1804.898
  end: 1808.119
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's something that the church teaches, okay?
  zh: 这是教会教导的，明白吗？
- start: 1808.119
  end: 1812.782
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the question is, what is the nature of the suffering?
  zh: 但问题是，苦难的本质是什么？
- start: 1813.102
  end: 1818.465
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And interestingly enough, this is not where the church has defined anything.
  zh: 有趣的是，这不是教会已经定义的内容。
- start: 1819.106
  end: 1826.309
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The church teaches suffering is involved, but precisely the nature of it, there's been theological debate.
  zh: 教会教导说有苦难，但关于其确切本质，一直存在神学争论。
- start: 1826.65
  end: 1832.073
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, theologians distinguish between two kinds of suffering, as you see there on your handout.
  zh: 现在，神学家们区分两种苦难，就像你们在讲义上看到的。
- start: 1832.193
  end: 1836.715
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The poena damni versus the poena sensus.
  zh: 失落之苦与感官之苦的区别。
- start: 1836.716
  end: 1843.29
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Poena damni refers to the pain of loss,  sensus refers to the pain of sense.
  zh: 失落之苦指的是失落的痛苦，感官之苦指的是感官的痛苦。
- start: 1843.49
  end: 1858.756
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now what you find in the teachings of the fathers, the teaching of the councils and the popes and their ordinary magisterium, across the board, the poena damni, that is the pain of loss, is the essence of the suffering of purgatory.
  zh: 现在你在教父的教导中，在会议和教宗的教导及其常规训导中都会发现，普遍认为失落之苦，也就是失落的痛苦，是炼狱苦难的本质。
- start: 1858.756
  end: 1859.796
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's primary.
  zh: 这是主要的。
- start: 1859.796
  end: 1861.697
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's across the board.
  zh: 这是普遍认同的。
- start: 1861.837
  end: 1868.119
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What's up for debate and what's debated is the poena sensus, that is the pain of sense.
  zh: 有争议和讨论的是感官之苦。
- start: 1868.254
  end: 1871.857
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So let's just kind of reflect upon the pain of loss just very briefly.
  zh: 所以让我们简单地思考一下失落之苦。
- start: 1872.137
  end: 1881.425
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The pain of loss refers to the soul realizing that it will eventually possess the beatific vision.
  zh: 失落之苦指的是灵魂意识到它最终将拥有真福直观。
- start: 1882.504
  end: 1885.066
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because the soul cannot possess it yet.
  zh: 因为灵魂还不能拥有它。
- start: 1885.227
  end: 1894.274
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That deprivation of the beatific vision is the primary cause of the suffering in this final purification.
  zh: 这种对真福直观的剥夺是最后净化中苦难的主要原因。
- start: 1894.415
  end: 1895.956
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The pain of loss.
  zh: 失落之苦。
- start: 1896.156
  end: 1900.56
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And because the desire for the beatific vision...
  zh: 而且因为对真福直观的渴望……
- start: 1901.139
  end: 1906.301
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: is greater for the souls in purgatory, the suffering is more intense.
  zh: 在炼狱中的灵魂更强烈，所以苦难更剧烈。
- start: 1906.301
  end: 1916.323
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because Aquinas would explain it in the way that the greater your desire for something that you do not possess yet, the greater the suffering for not having it yet, right?
  zh: 因为阿奎那会这样解释，你对还未拥有的东西的渴望越强烈，因为还未拥有它而产生的苦难就越大，对吧？
- start: 1916.564
  end: 1925.046
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so many of the theologians reflected upon this, Aquinas included and many other theologians in the Middle Ages, etc.,
  zh: 所以很多神学家都对此进行了思考，包括阿奎那和中世纪的许多其他神学家等等，
- start: 1925.306
  end: 1926.629
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And even before that.
  zh: 甚至更早之前。
- start: 1926.629
  end: 1933.519
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They reflect upon this pain of loss and say basically, you know, in this life, we desire heaven.
  zh: 他们思考这种失落之苦，基本上是说，你知道，在今生，我们渴望天堂。
- start: 1934.111
  end: 1935.491
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I desire heaven.
  zh: 我渴望天堂。
- start: 1935.652
  end: 1936.592
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But you know what?
  zh: 但你知道吗？
- start: 1936.592
  end: 1944.534
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Unfortunately, there are many things of this earthly life that sort of distract us and take our attention away from the beatific vision.
  zh: 不幸的是，今世生活中有许多事物会分散我们的注意力，使我们的注意力从真福直观上转移。
- start: 1944.714
  end: 1948.075
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And consequently, that desire lessens.
  zh: 因此，那种渴望减弱了。
- start: 1948.196
  end: 1948.836
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's weakened.
  zh: 它被削弱了。
- start: 1948.836
  end: 1955.918
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That desire is not as great as it will be when I die in friendship with Christ in the state of final purification.
  zh: 这种渴望不如当我在与基督的友谊中死去，处于最后净化状态时那么强烈。
- start: 1955.918
  end: 1956.638
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, guess what?
  zh: 那么，你猜怎么着？
- start: 1956.638
  end: 1959.099
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm free from earthly distractions.
  zh: 我摆脱了尘世的干扰。
- start: 1959.279
  end: 1964.225
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I no longer have earthly distractions, and further, I'm free from all sin.
  zh: 我不再有尘世的干扰，而且，我摆脱了所有罪。
- start: 1964.545
  end: 1974.336
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The soul might have the guilt of venial sin on the soul, but you're in a state far more closer to God than you are here on this earth.
  zh: 灵魂可能还带着小罪的罪责，但你比在世上时更接近神。
- start: 1974.517
  end: 1979.041
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so consequently, what happens to the desire for the beatific vision?
  zh: 因此，对真福直观的渴望会怎样？
- start: 1980.123
  end: 1982.524
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It increases in the afterlife.
  zh: 它在来世增强了。
- start: 1982.564
  end: 1992.847
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And because the desire for the beatific vision is greater, the suffering is going to be greater due to the deprivation of the beatific vision.
  zh: 而且因为对真福直观的渴望更强烈，由于无法获得真福直观而产生的苦难也会更大。
- start: 1992.847
  end: 1998.708
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So it's this pain of loss that's the essence of the suffering for the souls in purgatory.
  zh: 所以这种失落之苦是炼狱中灵魂受苦的本质。
- start: 1998.728
  end: 2042.574
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Many often reflect upon the pain also coming from the purification in the sense that the soul has to turn, basically,  about the catechism said the soul has to be purified of the what unhealthy attachments to created goods many have reflected upon the pain of purgatory being caused by that movement you might say from going from the unhealthy attachment to being totally attached to God because the wheel has to be turned right the wheel has to be purified of the unhealthy attachment so that it can be totally for the Lord totally attached to God and  And think about it just on a natural level in your life right now.
  zh: 许多人经常思考这种痛苦也来自净化，就是说灵魂必须转向，基本上，《教理》说灵魂必须净化对受造物的不健康依恋，许多人认为炼狱的痛苦是由这种转变造成的，你可以说是从不健康的依恋转向完全依附于神，因为这个轮子必须转向正确的方向，必须净化不健康的依恋，这样才能完全属于主，完全依附于神。现在就从你生活中的自然层面来想想。
- start: 2043.695
  end: 2057.286
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Has there ever been a time in your life where you've been really attached to something and God has called you in whatever form or fashion to detach from that and look more to Him?
  zh: 在你的生命中，是否曾经有过这样的时刻，你真的依恋某些事物，而神以某种方式呼召你放下这些，更多地仰望他？
- start: 2059.119
  end: 2066.804
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Whether it be some form of addiction or whatever it may be, we're attached to something and God calls us to detach and turn to Him.
  zh: 无论是某种瘾或其他什么，我们依恋某些事物，而神呼召我们放下这些，转向他。
- start: 2066.804
  end: 2068.585
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Is that an easy process?
  zh: 这是一个容易的过程吗？
- start: 2069.686
  end: 2071.247
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Very often it's not.
  zh: 通常不是。
- start: 2071.247
  end: 2073.388
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's quite difficult, right?
  zh: 这相当困难，对吧？
- start: 2073.429
  end: 2074.469
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: To detach.
  zh: 要放下。
- start: 2074.469
  end: 2080.011
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: from something, to turn away from something in this life and to be totally committed to the Lord.
  zh: 放下某些事物，在今生转离某些事物，完全委身于主。
- start: 2080.011
  end: 2082.492
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I know I've experienced that in my life, right?
  zh: 我知道我在生命中经历过这个，对吧？
- start: 2082.492
  end: 2095.838
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Having to detach from the music scene and the limelight and the vanity and all of that stuff and detach and turn my back to that in a sense to be totally focused on the Lord because that's where He was calling me to go.
  zh: 必须放下音乐界和聚光灯和虚荣，以及所有那些东西，在某种意义上放下并转离这些，完全专注于主，因为那是他呼召我去的地方。
- start: 2095.898
  end: 2100.68
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There was suffering involved in that detachment from earthly goods.
  zh: 在这种与世俗之物分离的过程中有痛苦。
- start: 2101.0
  end: 2107.142
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, many have reflected upon the pain of purgatory being that detachment.
  zh: 嗯，许多人认为炼狱的痛苦就是那种分离。
- start: 2107.142
  end: 2112.664
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That detachment that we're undergoing in the final purification is a cause for suffering.
  zh: 我们在最后净化中经历的那种分离是痛苦的原因。
- start: 2112.664
  end: 2116.846
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, the other pain that's referred to is the pain of sense.
  zh: 现在，另一种提到的痛苦是感官之苦。
- start: 2117.882
  end: 2119.925
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's an interesting debate.
  zh: 这是一个有趣的争论。
- start: 2119.925
  end: 2125.55
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Let me just say that the church has not defined it, and so it's up for grabs, and it's up for debate.
  zh: 让我说，教会还没有对此下定义，所以这是开放的，可以讨论的。
- start: 2125.691
  end: 2138.905
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There is a common teaching among the scholastics, among the middle-aged theologians, and even within the early church fathers, and even among the popes in the ordinary magisterium,  a common teaching that there is a pain of sense.
  zh: 在经院哲学家中，在中世纪神学家中，甚至在早期教父中，甚至在教宗的常规训导中，都有一个共同的教导，就是存在感官之苦。
- start: 2139.085
  end: 2147.912
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the question is, how can a disembodied soul experience sensory pain, like from a material fire of some sort?
  zh: 但问题是，一个离开肉体的灵魂如何能经历感官痛苦，比如来自某种物质之火的痛苦？
- start: 2147.912
  end: 2160.744
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If it doesn't have a body to be burned, right, or to experience the material fire, how can the soul experience the  or the pain of sense.
  zh: 如果它没有可以被烧的身体，对吧，或者没有可以体验物质之火的身体，灵魂如何能经历感官之苦。
- start: 2161.165
  end: 2175.805
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There are some interesting arguments that the theologians give on how a disembodied soul can still experience the pain of sense, but it's just a bit too deep for our reflection tonight, and to be frank with you,  A bit too deep for this little canog in here, right?
  zh: 神学家们对于一个离开肉体的灵魂如何仍能经历感官之苦提出了一些有趣的论证，但这对我们今晚的反思来说有点太深了，说实话，对这里的小修士来说也有点太深了，对吧？
- start: 2175.945
  end: 2179.368
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But bottom line is that it's not definitive.
  zh: 但底线是这不是确定的。
- start: 2179.368
  end: 2180.83
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's up for grabs, okay?
  zh: 这是开放的，明白吗？
- start: 2180.83
  end: 2188.677
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So the church has not defined if purgatory has a material fire and if you're going to suffer from the pain of sense.
  zh: 所以教会没有定义炼狱是否有物质之火，以及你是否会经历感官之苦。
- start: 2189.318
  end: 2194.102
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Many have argued if you ain't got a body, how are you going to suffer the pain of sense?
  zh: 许多人争论说如果你没有身体，你怎么能经历感官之苦？
- start: 2194.863
  end: 2196.184
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We can leave it at that, alright?
  zh: 我们就说到这里，好吗？
- start: 2196.184
  end: 2201.548
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But we know for sure that the suffering of purgatory is indeed the pain of loss.
  zh: 但我们确实知道炼狱的苦难确实是失落之苦。
- start: 2201.548
  end: 2213.136
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But always remember, as intense as that suffering of purgatory will be, from the pain of loss, the deprivation of the beatific vision, knowing that you go in there, but you can't have it yet.
  zh: 但要始终记住，尽管炼狱的苦难会很剧烈，来自失落之苦，来自无法获得真福直观，知道你会进入那里，但还不能得到它。
- start: 2213.136
  end: 2219.7
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I don't know about you guys, but when I know I'm going on vacation in two weeks or something, and they ain't here yet, I'm suffering.
  zh: 我不知道你们怎么样，但当我知道两周后要去度假什么的，而那时候还没到，我就在受苦。
- start: 2219.961
  end: 2221.642
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Can I get an amen to that one?
  zh: 这一点能得到一个阿们吗？
- start: 2222.333
  end: 2224.434
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I think we can relate to that one.
  zh: 我想我们都能理解这一点。
- start: 2225.034
  end: 2233.078
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Similarly, in purgatory, you know you've got the eternal vacation, the eternal rest of the beatific vision, but you just can't have it yet.
  zh: 同样，在炼狱中，你知道你将得到永恒的假期，真福直观的永恒安息，但你还不能得到它。
- start: 2233.078
  end: 2235.939
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's going to be a cause for suffering, okay?
  zh: 这将是痛苦的原因，明白吗？
- start: 2236.419
  end: 2237.379
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Alrighty.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 2237.38
  end: 2238.02
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now...
  zh: 现在……
- start: 2238.476
  end: 2242.319
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So that concludes our brief reflection on the nature of the suffering of...
  zh: 这就结束了我们对苦难本质的简短思考……
- start: 2242.319
  end: 2244.5
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Oh yeah, I didn't complete my thought.
  zh: 哦对了，我没有说完我的想法。
- start: 2244.5
  end: 2261.753
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Where I was going with that is, when we reflect upon the nature of the suffering of purgatory and how intense it may very well be, we must always temper that with the idea that there is peace, joy, and consolation even in the final purification.
  zh: 我要说的是，当我们思考炼狱苦难的本质以及它可能有多么剧烈时，我们必须始终记住，即使在最后的净化中也有平安、喜乐和慰藉。
- start: 2261.873
  end: 2266.814
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because those souls in the mystical body of Christ, which we traditionally refer to as what?
  zh: 因为那些在基督奥体中的灵魂，我们传统上称之为什么？
- start: 2266.814
  end: 2268.655
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The church suffering, right?
  zh: 受苦的教会，对吧？
- start: 2268.735
  end: 2274.376
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Those souls are closer to Jesus Christ than you and me right now.
  zh: 那些灵魂比你我现在更接近耶稣基督。
- start: 2274.676
  end: 2280.478
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because they have died in friendship with Christ, and they were guaranteed of their salvation.
  zh: 因为他们是在与基督的友谊中死去的，而且他们的救恩是有保证的。
- start: 2280.678
  end: 2283.399
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Something that we do not have right now.
  zh: 这是我们现在所没有的。
- start: 2283.799
  end: 2289.022
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And therefore, something that can be a cause of joy and peace for them.
  zh: 因此，这可以成为他们喜乐和平安的原因。
- start: 2289.022
  end: 2289.402
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay?
  zh: 明白吗？
- start: 2289.402
  end: 2292.663
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So it's an important principle to remember.
  zh: 所以这是一个重要的原则要记住。
- start: 2292.663
  end: 2293.204
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 2293.204
  end: 2295.705
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So let's move to catechetical point number seven.
  zh: 让我们进入第七个教理要点。
- start: 2295.705
  end: 2298.206
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And that is the duration of purgatory.
  zh: 那就是炼狱的持续时间。
- start: 2298.206
  end: 2301.547
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Is this something that's going to exist forever?
  zh: 这是永远存在的吗？
- start: 2301.667
  end: 2302.668
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Or is it temporary?
  zh: 还是暂时的？
- start: 2302.668
  end: 2305.609
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, the purification itself is temporary.
  zh: 嗯，净化本身是暂时的。
- start: 2305.609
  end: 2308.27
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So like the soul going through the purification, it's temporary.
  zh: 所以就像经历净化的灵魂一样，是暂时的。
- start: 2308.27
  end: 2309.991
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's eventually going to cease.
  zh: 它最终会结束。
- start: 2309.991
  end: 2312.433
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: and that soul will enter into the beatific vision.
  zh: 那个灵魂将进入真福直观。
- start: 2312.554
  end: 2320.582
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the reality of purgatory itself, the Church teaches, will no longer exist after the general judgment, after the final judgment.
  zh: 但教会教导说，炼狱本身的现实在总审判之后，在最后审判之后将不再存在。
- start: 2320.582
  end: 2324.266
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Here's what Pope Clement VI taught.
  zh: 这是克莱孟六世教宗的教导。
- start: 2324.466
  end: 2350.078
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He reigned from 1342 to 1352.  He states, ...also if you have believed and now believe that they will be tortured by fire for a time, notice, for a time, and that as soon as they are cleansed, even before the day of judgment, they may come to the true and eternal beatitude which consists in the vision of God face to face and in love.
  zh: 他在1342年至1352年在位。他说：「……如果你曾相信并现在相信他们将被火炼净一段时间，注意，是一段时间，而且一旦他们被洁净，甚至在审判日之前，他们就可以进入真实和永恒的福乐，这福乐就是面对面地看见神并在爱中。」
- start: 2350.098
  end: 2358.207
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So the implication here from Pope Clement VI's statement is that purgatory will cease to exist.
  zh: 所以克莱孟六世教宗的声明暗示炼狱将不复存在。
- start: 2358.207
  end: 2362.271
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It will no longer be after the Day of Judgment.
  zh: 在审判日之后它将不再存在。
- start: 2362.271
  end: 2371.761
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So he's referring to purgation, this final purification, up to the Day of Judgment, after which there will no longer be the reality of purgatory.
  zh: 所以他指的是净化，这最后的净化，直到审判日，之后炼狱的现实将不再存在。
- start: 2371.941
  end: 2380.385
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: St. Augustine writes the following, Let purification punishments be counted on only before that last and terrible judgment.
  zh: 圣奥古斯丁写道：「让净化的惩罚只在那最后和可怕的审判之前计算。」
- start: 2380.566
  end: 2383.507
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Only before that last and terrible judgment.
  zh: 只在那最后和可怕的审判之前。
- start: 2383.507
  end: 2385.028
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What's the implication?
  zh: 这暗示什么？
- start: 2385.108
  end: 2386.729
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: After the general judgment.
  zh: 在总审判之后。
- start: 2386.789
  end: 2391.051
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: After the final judgment, purgatory will no longer exist.
  zh: 在最后审判之后，炼狱将不再存在。
- start: 2391.472
  end: 2395.954
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, well the next question is, well, what about time in purgatory, right?
  zh: 好的，那么下一个问题是，在炼狱中的时间如何，对吧？
- start: 2396.502
  end: 2400.183
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do the souls experience time as we experience today?
  zh: 灵魂是否像我们今天一样经历时间？
- start: 2400.183
  end: 2407.825
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because, you know, didn't the church used to say if this particular indulgence was performed, you'd get 300 days off of purgatory, right?
  zh: 因为，你知道，教会不是曾经说过如果做了这个特定的大赦，就能减少300天的炼狱时间，对吧？
- start: 2408.245
  end: 2411.286
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So is purgatory time as we experience it today?
  zh: 那么炼狱的时间是否像我们今天经历的一样？
- start: 2411.286
  end: 2422.469
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No. The existence of purgatory is not the time as we experience it in this life, nor is it the eternal now of God.
  zh: 不是。炼狱的存在不是像我们在今生经历的时间，也不是神的永恒当下。
- start: 2422.649
  end: 2426.213
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because God alone, in essence, is eternal.
  zh: 因为本质上只有神是永恒的。
- start: 2426.213
  end: 2427.855
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Without beginning, without end.
  zh: 无始无终。
- start: 2427.935
  end: 2429.316
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We have a beginning.
  zh: 我们有开始。
- start: 2429.397
  end: 2431.819
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We don't have an end, but we have a beginning.
  zh: 我们没有终结，但我们有开始。
- start: 2432.04
  end: 2441.531
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so the theologians would refer to the abode of the afterlife, even for the souls in heaven, right now, the souls in purgatory, and even for the angels.
  zh: 所以神学家们会提到来世的居所，即使是现在天堂里的灵魂，炼狱中的灵魂，甚至天使。
- start: 2441.531
  end: 2443.993
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They refer to it as avaternity.
  zh: 他们称之为永久性。
- start: 2443.993
  end: 2447.375
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Just a little theological, technical nuance there.
  zh: 这只是一个神学上的技术性细节。
- start: 2447.375
  end: 2449.756
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the idea is this.
  zh: 但想法是这样的。
- start: 2449.936
  end: 2458.761
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The souls in purgatory do not experience physical time as we experience it today in this sort of 24-hour period succession of days.
  zh: 炼狱中的灵魂不会像我们今天这样经历物理时间，不会经历这种24小时周期的连续日子。
- start: 2459.904
  end: 2470.893
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: However, there is still some movement, as we would say according to Aristotelian philosophy, of movement from potency to act.
  zh: 然而，按照亚里士多德哲学的说法，仍然有一些从潜能到实现的运动。
- start: 2470.894
  end: 2474.257
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In other words, potentiality to actuality.
  zh: 换句话说，从潜能到现实。
- start: 2474.257
  end: 2480.462
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: For example, to be frank, going from not being purified to being purified, right?
  zh: 例如，说实话，就是从未被净化到被净化，对吧？
- start: 2481.483
  end: 2484.886
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Not being at the state of holiness necessary for the beatific vision.
  zh: 还没有达到真福直观所需的圣洁状态。
- start: 2488.825
  end: 2491.626
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So there's still some sort of movement there.
  zh: 所以那里仍然有某种运动。
- start: 2491.626
  end: 2495.607
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's still some sort of movement from what we call potency to actuality.
  zh: 仍然有某种从我们所说的潜能到现实的运动。
- start: 2495.647
  end: 2498.248
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So there's time in that sense.
  zh: 所以在这个意义上是有时间的。
- start: 2498.468
  end: 2503.129
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But it's going to be something far different than the way we experience it in this life.
  zh: 但这将与我们在今生经历的方式大不相同。
- start: 2503.129
  end: 2506.13
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Physical time, that is, within the space-time continuum.
  zh: 物理时间，也就是在时空连续体中的时间。
- start: 2506.13
  end: 2506.81
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Right, Mike?
  zh: 对吧，迈克？
- start: 2506.81
  end: 2507.95
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Where are you at, Mike?
  zh: 迈克，你在哪里？
- start: 2508.51
  end: 2512.254
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, and so there are no days in purgatory.
  zh: 好的，所以炼狱中没有日子之分。
- start: 2512.254
  end: 2521.881
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, at this particular point, it's important to make a note about the traditional usage of days in reference to purgatory and indulgences.
  zh: 现在，在这一点上，重要的是要注意关于炼狱和大赦中使用天数的传统用法。
- start: 2521.981
  end: 2531.409
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: As many of you know, in the tradition, many times the church would prescribe a certain act of charity as an indulgence, right?
  zh: 正如你们许多人所知道的，在传统中，教会经常会规定某种爱德行为作为大赦，对吧？
- start: 2531.509
  end: 2539.156
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And the church would attach to that indulgence, say, let's say, 300 days off of your purgatory time, right?
  zh: 而教会会给这个大赦附加，比如说，减少300天的炼狱时间，对吧？
- start: 2539.336
  end: 2543.981
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, does that imply that the church understood purgatory to be a succession of days?
  zh: 那么，这是否意味着教会理解炼狱是连续的日子？
- start: 2543.981
  end: 2563.855
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No. The way the church used the days in reference to purgatory was simply to draw a parallel between this particular act of charity that the church would ascribe to be an indulgence  That would be equivalent to 300 days of penance in the ancient church, right?
  zh: 不是。教会使用天数来指代炼狱，只是为了在教会认定为大赦的这个特定爱德行为与古代教会300天的补赎之间画一个对应关系，对吧？
- start: 2563.875
  end: 2578.36
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, for example, if somebody would commit adultery, and they would have three years of penitential action before being admitted back to the Eucharistic celebration, the table of the Lord, right?
  zh: 所以，例如，如果有人犯了通奸罪，他们在被允许重新参加圣餐庆典，回到主的餐桌之前要做三年的补赎行为，对吧？
- start: 2578.52
  end: 2582.982
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, an indulgence could be said three years off of your purgatory time.
  zh: 那么，一个大赦可以说是减少三年的炼狱时间。
- start: 2583.505
  end: 2585.225
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What did the church mean by that?
  zh: 教会这样说是什么意思？
- start: 2585.286
  end: 2594.469
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This indulgence, this act of charity, is equivalent to three years worth of penitential action in the ancient church.
  zh: 这个大赦，这个爱德行为，相当于古代教会中三年的补赎行为。
- start: 2594.469
  end: 2600.55
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So that's what the church meant by using the terminology of days off of purgatory.
  zh: 所以这就是教会使用减少炼狱天数这种说法的含义。
- start: 2600.55
  end: 2605.232
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Not implying our experience of purgatory being time in this life.
  zh: 并不是暗示我们在炼狱中的经历是像今生的时间。
- start: 2605.232
  end: 2609.893
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Just simply drawing the parallel with penitential action in the ancient church.
  zh: 只是简单地与古代教会的补赎行为作对比。
- start: 2609.893
  end: 2625.383
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, did the church do away with  with using this terminology of attaching days to indulgences, etc. Yes, the church did that in her wisdom because of all of the confusion that it was bringing about within people's minds.
  zh: 现在，教会是否废除了使用这种将天数附加到大赦上的说法等等？是的，教会以其智慧这样做了，因为这在人们心中造成了很多混淆。
- start: 2626.004
  end: 2633.97
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, finally, we come to catechetical point number nine, and that is the souls in purgatory can intercede for us.
  zh: 好的，最后，我们来到第九个教理要点，那就是炼狱中的灵魂可以为我们代祷。
- start: 2634.37
  end: 2639.831
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Interestingly enough, this is a subject of debate among many theologians.
  zh: 有趣的是，这是许多神学家争论的主题。
- start: 2640.131
  end: 2651.394
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Some will argue that they can't pray for us because the suffering of purgatory is totally passive, receiving that purification, right?
  zh: 有些人会说他们不能为我们祈祷，因为炼狱的苦难是完全被动的，只是接受那种净化，对吧？
- start: 2651.734
  end: 2657.975
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so they can't do anything for themselves, and then some will argue they can't do anything for other members of the mystical body of Christ.
  zh: 因此他们不能为自己做任何事，然后有些人会说他们也不能为基督奥体的其他成员做任何事。
- start: 2657.995
  end: 2667.56
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: However, the catechism seems to suggest that  that the souls in purgatory can pray for us as members of the mystical body of Christ.
  zh: 然而，《教理》似乎暗示炼狱中的灵魂作为基督奥体的成员可以为我们祈祷。
- start: 2667.56
  end: 2668.84
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So I'll share that quote with you.
  zh: 所以我来和你们分享那段引文。
- start: 2668.84
  end: 2671.261
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Paragraph 958, the Catechism states this.
  zh: 《教理》第958段是这样说的。
- start: 2671.261
  end: 2675.922
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now this is within the context of the dead.
  zh: 现在这是在谈论死者的背景下。
- start: 2675.942
  end: 2680.163
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's talking about those souls who die in friendship.
  zh: 它在谈论那些在友谊中死去的灵魂。
- start: 2680.263
  end: 2682.463
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's talking about praying for the dead.
  zh: 它在谈论为死者祈祷。
- start: 2682.463
  end: 2686.784
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We're going to get to that and the biblical evidence for that in the second part of tonight's talk.
  zh: 我们将在今晚讲座的第二部分讨论这个以及其圣经依据。
- start: 2686.988
  end: 2688.548
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Here's what the catechism says.
  zh: 这是《教理》所说的。
- start: 2688.609
  end: 2704.313
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Our prayer for them, in reference to the souls in purgatory, our prayer for them is capable not only of helping them, but also of making their intercession for us effective.
  zh: 我们为他们的祈祷，指的是为炼狱中的灵魂，我们为他们的祈祷不仅能帮助他们，还能使他们为我们的代祷更有效。
- start: 2705.014
  end: 2705.934
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Who's there?
  zh: 那里指的是谁？
- start: 2705.934
  end: 2707.254
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Who's the there?
  zh: 那个「他们」是谁？
- start: 2707.394
  end: 2709.415
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's the souls in purgatory.
  zh: 是炼狱中的灵魂。
- start: 2709.921
  end: 2720.236
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Catechism is referring to the souls in purgatory and says that their intercession is more effective for us when we pray for them.
  zh: 《教理》指的是炼狱中的灵魂，并说当我们为他们祈祷时，他们为我们的代祷会更有效。
- start: 2721.121
  end: 2722.322
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now that's an interesting statement.
  zh: 这是一个有趣的说法。
- start: 2722.322
  end: 2725.545
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We could chase just a little rabbit here and think about this.
  zh: 我们可以在这里追寻一个小问题来思考这个。
- start: 2725.545
  end: 2728.448
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What would be the theological rationale behind that?
  zh: 这背后的神学理由是什么？
- start: 2728.448
  end: 2728.968
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, guess what?
  zh: 那么，你猜怎么着？
- start: 2728.968
  end: 2730.51
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know what the Bible teaches us?
  zh: 你知道圣经教导我们什么？
- start: 2730.51
  end: 2735.454
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Bible teaches us that sin impedes the effectiveness of prayer.
  zh: 圣经教导我们，罪会阻碍祈祷的效力。
- start: 2735.735
  end: 2744.322
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The flip side of that, according to James 5.16, the prayer of a righteous man avails much, bears much fruit.
  zh: 与此相反，根据雅各书5:16，义人祈祷所发的力量是大有功效的，结出许多果实。
- start: 2744.322
  end: 2745.243
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So think about it.
  zh: 所以想一想。
- start: 2745.243
  end: 2747.845
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If the soul is  in this final purification?
  zh: 如果灵魂在这最后的净化中？
- start: 2747.845
  end: 2751.547
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The guilt of venial sin is removed.
  zh: 小罪的罪责被除去。
- start: 2751.547
  end: 2753.128
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Sin is removed from the soul.
  zh: 罪从灵魂中被除去。
- start: 2753.128
  end: 2755.329
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The soul is being purified.
  zh: 灵魂正在被净化。
- start: 2755.509
  end: 2765.554
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well then, that would make sense that the prayer of that person, for me, would become more effective as the guilt of venial sin is removed, right?
  zh: 那么，这就说得通了，当小罪的罪责被除去时，那个人为我的祈祷会变得更有效，对吧？
- start: 2765.894
  end: 2767.615
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, the catechism...
  zh: 所以，《教理》……
- start: 2772.964
  end: 2774.105
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because guess what?
  zh: 因为你猜怎么着？
- start: 2774.105
  end: 2778.327
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They're members of the mystical body of Christ, my dear friends.
  zh: 他们是基督奥体的成员，我亲爱的朋友们。
- start: 2778.327
  end: 2780.648
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Church triumphant, the soul is in heaven.
  zh: 得胜的教会，灵魂在天堂。
- start: 2780.648
  end: 2783.59
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Church suffering, the soul is in purgatory.
  zh: 受苦的教会，灵魂在炼狱。
- start: 2783.59
  end: 2787.452
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And as our tradition refers to it, the church militant, which is us here on earth.
  zh: 而按照我们的传统所说的，战斗的教会，就是我们这些在世上的人。
- start: 2787.452
  end: 2788.272
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why militant?
  zh: 为什么说战斗？
- start: 2788.272
  end: 2790.373
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because we're still fighting sin.
  zh: 因为我们仍在与罪争战。
- start: 2790.574
  end: 2792.855
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We're still fighting those demons, right?
  zh: 我们仍在与那些魔鬼争战，对吧？
- start: 2792.855
  end: 2801.059
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We're still fighting our own vices, you know, that arise from our own weakness.
  zh: 我们仍在与自己的恶习争战，你知道，这些恶习源于我们自己的软弱。
- start: 2802.182
  end: 2809.385
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: These are nine catechetical points that I think are important for us to highlight when we're talking about predatory.
  zh: 这些是我认为在我们谈论炼狱时需要强调的九个教理要点。
- start: 2809.385
  end: 2810.585
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Are there more?
  zh: 还有更多吗？
- start: 2810.886
  end: 2812.326
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Indeed, there are more.
  zh: 确实，还有更多。
- start: 2812.326
  end: 2816.688
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's whole volumes, right, and dogmatic treatises on this topic.
  zh: 关于这个主题有整卷的著作，对吧，还有教义论文。
- start: 2816.688
  end: 2822.891
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I was reading some of them prior to tonight's talk, but it was so much, it was like overload, right, over-download of info.
  zh: 我在今晚讲座之前读了一些，但内容太多了，就像信息超载一样，对吧。
- start: 2822.891
  end: 2826.752
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So these are nine essential points that I wanted to highlight for you.
  zh: 所以这些是我想要为你们强调的九个基本要点。
- start: 2826.752
  end: 2828.673
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, before we take our break...
  zh: 现在，在我们休息之前……
- start: 2829.105
  end: 2836.127
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Let's go ahead and move into the second part of tonight's talk, and that is the biblical evidence for purgatory.
  zh: 让我们继续进入今晚讲座的第二部分，也就是炼狱的圣经依据。
- start: 2836.127
  end: 2840.269
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And as many of you know, you know why this is so important, right?
  zh: 正如你们许多人所知道的，你们知道为什么这如此重要，对吧？
- start: 2840.269
  end: 2850.292
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because very often our Protestant brothers and sisters will ask us the common question, where is that in the Bible?
  zh: 因为我们的新教弟兄姐妹经常会问我们这个常见问题，这在圣经中在哪里？
- start: 2850.372
  end: 2860.976
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Many of you come from a Protestant tradition converting to Catholicism, so I'm sure many of you  could affirm that Protestant question.
  zh: 你们许多人是从新教传统皈依公教的，所以我相信你们许多人都能认同这个新教的问题。
- start: 2860.976
  end: 2861.837
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Where is that in the Bible?
  zh: 这在圣经中在哪里？
- start: 2861.837
  end: 2867.081
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So it's important for us to know, as Catholics, so that we can share it with our Protestant brothers and sisters.
  zh: 所以对我们公教徒来说，了解这一点很重要，这样我们就能与新教的弟兄姐妹分享。
- start: 2867.081
  end: 2881.632
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But furthermore, you know, Pope Leo X in 1520, which is right after, I think, the Fifth Lateran Council, which ended in 1517.  He issued a papal bull entitled Exsuge Domini, which is Arise, O Lord.
  zh: 而且，你知道，利奥十世在1520年，就在第五次拉特兰会议结束后（我想是1517年结束的），发布了一个教宗诏书，题为《Exsuge Domini》，意思是「兴起，主啊」。
- start: 2881.632
  end: 2896.784
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And in this papal bull, Pope Leo X declared he was actually refuting some of the errors of Martin Luther at the time, because the Reformation was just beginning, with Martin Luther's rejection of the various mysteries of faith.
  zh: 在这个教宗诏书中，利奥十世宣布他实际上是在驳斥马丁路德当时的一些错误，因为宗教改革刚刚开始，马丁路德否认了各种信仰奥秘。
- start: 2897.348
  end: 2904.718
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And Pope Leo X, refuting the errors of Martin Luther, declared purgatory can be demonstrated in the Bible.
  zh: 利奥十世在驳斥马丁路德的错误时，宣布炼狱可以在圣经中得到证明。
- start: 2904.779
  end: 2908.083
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It was like an official teaching of the church because Martin Luther was denying it.
  zh: 这就像是教会的一个正式教导，因为马丁路德在否认它。
- start: 2908.083
  end: 2910.847
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Martin Luther was saying, ah, there's nowhere in the Bible purgatory.
  zh: 马丁路德说，啊，圣经中没有任何地方提到炼狱。
- start: 2910.847
  end: 2913.13
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We don't find it anywhere other than Holy Writ.
  zh: 除了圣经，我们在任何地方都找不到它。
- start: 2914.311
  end: 2916.713
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, it is attested to in Sacred Scripture.
  zh: 不，它在圣经中是有证据的。
- start: 2916.713
  end: 2923.939
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, what I'm going to share with you are some of the various examples from the Bible that the Church has often reflected upon.
  zh: 所以，我要和你们分享的是教会经常思考的一些圣经例子。
- start: 2923.939
  end: 2933.786
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You might even say certain sets of data from the Bible that leads us to conclude that purgatory is found in Holy Writ, is found in Sacred Scripture.
  zh: 你甚至可以说，圣经中的某些数据使我们得出结论，炼狱是在圣经中能找到的，是在圣经中有记载的。
- start: 2933.786
  end: 2939.991
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, our first set of data is at least biblically reasonable.
  zh: 所以，我们的第一组数据至少在圣经上是合理的。
- start: 2940.251
  end: 2949.815
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Before we get to the explicit text that I would argue reveals the existence of purgatory, we can see that it's at least biblically reasonable.
  zh: 在我们讨论那些我认为明确揭示炼狱存在的经文之前，我们可以看到这至少在圣经上是合理的。
- start: 2949.815
  end: 2953.536
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And there are three steps of exegesis to this.
  zh: 这里有三个解经步骤。
- start: 2953.657
  end: 2962.748
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Step 1.  A person can die with defilement on the soul and still remain in friendship with Christ.
  zh: 第一步。一个人可以带着灵魂的污点死去，但仍然保持与基督的友谊。
- start: 2962.748
  end: 2964.789
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Remember that teaching of the catechism?
  zh: 还记得《教理》的那个教导吗？
- start: 2964.789
  end: 2969.993
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Those who die in God's grace and friendship, those still imperfectly purify.
  zh: 那些在神的恩典和友谊中死去的人，那些仍然不完全纯净的人。
- start: 2969.993
  end: 2972.474
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And we said the church was referring to what?
  zh: 我们说教会指的是什么？
- start: 2972.474
  end: 2975.196
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The guilt of venial sin.
  zh: 小罪的罪责。
- start: 2975.196
  end: 2986.003
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In contrast to the guilt of mortal sin, which destroys grace in the soul, venial sin doesn't destroy grace, but it weakens grace.
  zh: 与摧毁灵魂中恩典的大罪罪责相比，小罪不会摧毁恩典，但会削弱恩典。
- start: 2986.044
  end: 2989.528
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It weakens the supernatural life in the soul.
  zh: 它削弱灵魂中的超性生命。
- start: 2989.528
  end: 2992.131
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But nevertheless, the soul is in friendship with Christ.
  zh: 但尽管如此，灵魂仍与基督保持友谊。
- start: 2992.131
  end: 2995.334
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So the question is, is this found in the Bible?
  zh: 所以问题是，这在圣经中能找到吗？
- start: 2995.835
  end: 3002.183
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Is it found in the Bible that you can be guilty of sin and still be in friendship with Jesus Christ?
  zh: 在圣经中能找到你可以有罪但仍然与耶稣基督保持友谊的记载吗？
- start: 3002.183
  end: 3003.764
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then the answer is yes.
  zh: 答案是肯定的。
- start: 3004.036
  end: 3005.677
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Biblical passages I'll share with you.
  zh: 我要和你们分享的圣经段落。
- start: 3005.677
  end: 3020.729
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The first of which is 1 John 5, verses 16-17, which is the classic text that we have always referred to in our Catholic tradition as a biblical support for the existence of the difference between venial and mortal sin.
  zh: 第一段是约翰一书5章16-17节，这是我们在公教传统中一直引用的经典经文，作为小罪和大罪之间存在差异的圣经依据。
- start: 3020.929
  end: 3024.812
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Sin having different consequences, varying degrees of sin.
  zh: 罪有不同的后果，罪有不同的程度。
- start: 3024.832
  end: 3030.296
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He writes, if anyone sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin...
  zh: 他写道，若有人看见他的弟兄犯了一件不至于死的罪……
- start: 3030.296
  end: 3035.96
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, the original Greek text there reads, a sin not unto death.
  zh: 现在，希腊原文在那里写的是，一个不至于死的罪。
- start: 3035.96
  end: 3038.021
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Some English translations will have it like that.
  zh: 一些英文译本就是这样翻译的。
- start: 3038.021
  end: 3040.023
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: A sin not unto death.
  zh: 一个不至于死的罪。
- start: 3040.023
  end: 3044.746
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This Revised Standard Version simply says, a sin that is not mortal.
  zh: 这个修订标准版本简单地说，一个不是致死的罪。
- start: 3044.746
  end: 3046.748
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What death is it talking about?
  zh: 它说的是什么死？
- start: 3046.748
  end: 3049.009
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Physical death or supernatural death?
  zh: 肉体的死亡还是超性的死亡？
- start: 3049.284
  end: 3052.345
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Supernatural death, the death of God's life and the soul.
  zh: 超性的死亡，神的生命在灵魂中的死亡。
- start: 3052.345
  end: 3068.529
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So he says, if anyone sees his brother committing that which is not a mortal sin, that is a sin not unto death, he will ask and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal, not unto death.
  zh: 所以他说，若有人看见他的弟兄犯了一件不至于死的罪，就是不致死的罪，他就当祈求，神必将生命赐给那些犯不至于死之罪的人。
- start: 3068.529
  end: 3071.949
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There is a sin, he goes on, which is mortal.
  zh: 他接着说，有一种罪是致死的。
- start: 3071.949
  end: 3074.31
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In other words, which is unto death.
  zh: 换句话说，就是至于死的。
- start: 3074.35
  end: 3076.091
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I do not say that one is to pray for that.
  zh: 我不说当为这罪祈求。
- start: 3076.091
  end: 3077.692
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: All wrongdoing is sin.
  zh: 凡不义的事都是罪。
- start: 3077.692
  end: 3083.335
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But there is sin which is not mortal, not unto death.
  zh: 但有不至于死的罪。
- start: 3083.456
  end: 3085.877
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So there is sin unto death.
  zh: 所以有至于死的罪。
- start: 3085.877
  end: 3087.278
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We call it mortal sin.
  zh: 我们称之为大罪。
- start: 3087.278
  end: 3087.878
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 3087.878
  end: 3092.501
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because it brings about the death, mortality of the supernatural life.
  zh: 因为它带来死亡，超性生命的死亡。
- start: 3092.521
  end: 3095.263
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But there is a sin not unto death.
  zh: 但有不至于死的罪。
- start: 3095.324
  end: 3102.73
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We call that venial sin, a light sin, that doesn't bring death to the supernatural life, although it may weaken it, or it does weaken it.
  zh: 我们称之为小罪，轻罪，它不会带来超性生命的死亡，虽然它可能削弱它，或者说它确实会削弱它。
- start: 3102.73
  end: 3104.371
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Not may, we know for sure.
  zh: 不是可能，我们确实知道。
- start: 3104.431
  end: 3113.48
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So this is the first example of witnessing to  a degree of sin that could defile the person nevertheless.
  zh: 所以这是第一个例子，见证了一种程度的罪，虽然会玷污人。
- start: 3113.48
  end: 3119.045
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But, allow the person to still remain in friendship with God.
  zh: 但仍允许这人保持与神的友谊。
- start: 3119.566
  end: 3121.508
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We also look to Jesus himself.
  zh: 我们也来看耶稣自己的话。
- start: 3121.508
  end: 3130.155
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Many apologists and theologians have looked to Matthew 5, 19-20, where Jesus says, ...whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments...
  zh: 许多护教学者和神学家都看到马太福音5章19-20节，耶稣在那里说：「所以无论何人废掉这诫命中最小的一条……」
- start: 3130.416
  end: 3134.519
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And teaches men so shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven.
  zh: 「又教训人这样做的，他在天国要称为最小的。」
- start: 3134.619
  end: 3139.963
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
  zh: 「但无论何人遵行这诫命，又教训人遵行的，他在天国要称为大的。」
- start: 3139.963
  end: 3146.548
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
  zh: 「我告诉你们，你们的义若不胜于文士和法利赛人的义，断不能进天国。」
- start: 3146.548
  end: 3156.011
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Notice how Jesus says, if someone relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men to do so, he shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven.
  zh: 注意耶稣是如何说的，如果有人废掉这些诫命中最小的一条，又教训人这样做，他在天国要称为最小的。
- start: 3156.011
  end: 3161.493
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, first of all, there seems to be degrees of sin, right?
  zh: 所以，首先，似乎有罪的程度之分，对吧？
- start: 3161.493
  end: 3166.515
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Least commandments, a least degree of sin.
  zh: 最小的诫命，最小程度的罪。
- start: 3166.595
  end: 3169.876
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And if you commit that least degree of sin, you're still what?
  zh: 如果你犯了那最小程度的罪，你仍然是什么？
- start: 3170.242
  end: 3171.523
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You're still in the kingdom.
  zh: 你仍然在天国里。
- start: 3171.523
  end: 3175.587
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You're at least in the kingdom, but nevertheless, you're still in the kingdom.
  zh: 你至少在天国里，但无论如何，你仍然在天国里。
- start: 3175.647
  end: 3182.914
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So many have looked to this saying of Jesus to emphasize the reality of how there's varying degrees of sin.
  zh: 所以许多人看到耶稣的这句话，强调罪有不同程度的现实。
- start: 3182.914
  end: 3185.516
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Some can keep us out of the kingdom.
  zh: 有些罪能使我们无法进入天国。
- start: 3185.556
  end: 3189.4
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: St. Paul talks about those in 1 Corinthians 6, 9-10, right?
  zh: 圣保罗在哥林多前书6章9-10节谈到这些，对吧？
- start: 3189.4
  end: 3195.587
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Galatians 5, Ephesians 5 gives us a list of those sins that keep us from the kingdom of God.
  zh: 加拉太书5章，以弗所书5章给我们列出了那些使我们无法进入神国的罪。
- start: 3195.587
  end: 3200.371
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Jesus seems to imply that there are some sins that we can commit, but still be in the kingdom.
  zh: 耶稣似乎暗示有些罪我们可能会犯，但仍然在天国里。
- start: 3200.532
  end: 3204.916
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Are we advocating to go and commit all the sin you want, as long as it's in you?
  zh: 我们是在提倡去犯你想犯的所有罪，只要是在你里面的吗？
- start: 3205.729
  end: 3207.532
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Absolutely not, right?
  zh: 绝对不是，对吧？
- start: 3207.532
  end: 3210.396
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's not love, folks, right?
  zh: 那不是爱，各位，对吧？
- start: 3210.396
  end: 3216.303
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you truly love the Lord, you will do what you can to even avoid venial sin.
  zh: 如果你真的爱主，你会尽你所能甚至避免小罪。
- start: 3216.303
  end: 3217.044
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 3217.044
  end: 3219.367
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because the smallest offense...
  zh: 因为最小的冒犯……
- start: 3219.708
  end: 3222.869
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: against our beloved Lord, is still an offense.
  zh: 对我们所爱的主来说，仍然是冒犯。
- start: 3223.25
  end: 3229.493
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And if we truly love Him, we don't want to offend Him in any way or fashion.
  zh: 如果我们真的爱他，我们不想以任何方式冒犯他。
- start: 3229.833
  end: 3231.274
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Will we at times?
  zh: 我们有时会吗？
- start: 3231.314
  end: 3232.094
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Probably so.
  zh: 可能会。
- start: 3232.094
  end: 3236.036
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I don't think anybody in here is a Blessed Virgin Mary, right?
  zh: 我想这里没有人是蒙福的童贞马利亚，对吧？
- start: 3236.156
  end: 3236.877
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay?
  zh: 好吧？
- start: 3236.877
  end: 3237.977
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So probably so.
  zh: 所以可能会。
- start: 3237.977
  end: 3238.878
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We will fall.
  zh: 我们会跌倒。
- start: 3238.878
  end: 3243.3
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We will fall short of perfect love in this life.
  zh: 在今生我们无法达到完全的爱。
- start: 3243.5
  end: 3250.326
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But, thanks be to God, even if we do fall short of love with venial sin, we can still be in friendship with Christ.
  zh: 但感谢神，即使我们因小罪而在爱上有所欠缺，我们仍然可以与基督保持友谊。
- start: 3250.326
  end: 3255.891
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And still receive the graces from prayers of other members of the mystical body of Christ to heal us, right?
  zh: 而且仍然可以从基督奥体的其他成员的祈祷中获得医治我们的恩典，对吧？
- start: 3255.891
  end: 3257.792
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And to get us closer to Jesus.
  zh: 使我们更接近耶稣。
- start: 3258.183
  end: 3259.584
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So that's the first step.
  zh: 这就是第一步。
- start: 3259.584
  end: 3266.827
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: A person can die in defilement, with defilement on the soul, and still remain in friendship with Christ.
  zh: 一个人可以带着污点死去，灵魂上带着污点，但仍然保持与基督的友谊。
- start: 3266.827
  end: 3274.611
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If the soul is guilty of only venial sin, and dies, that soul is still in God's friendship, but there's defilement on the soul, right?
  zh: 如果灵魂只有小罪，并且死去，那个灵魂仍然与神保持友谊，但灵魂上有污点，对吧？
- start: 3275.011
  end: 3275.991
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Step two.
  zh: 第二步。
- start: 3276.832
  end: 3281.015
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Defilement cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, folks.
  zh: 各位，污点不能进入天国。
- start: 3281.196
  end: 3283.077
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: St. John makes it plain and clear.
  zh: 圣约翰说得明明白白。
- start: 3283.077
  end: 3288.401
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Very simple and short in Revelation 21-27. Nothing unclean shall enter it.
  zh: 启示录21:27说得很简单明了：凡不洁净的，总不得进那城。
- start: 3288.401
  end: 3290.823
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He's talking about the heavenly Jerusalem.
  zh: 他在谈论天上的耶路撒冷。
- start: 3290.823
  end: 3292.144
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Heaven itself.
  zh: 天堂本身。
- start: 3292.265
  end: 3293.405
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Nothing unclean shall enter it.
  zh: 凡不洁净的，总不得进入。
- start: 3293.405
  end: 3294.626
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So think about that.
  zh: 所以想想这个。
- start: 3294.927
  end: 3299.41
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: A soul can die in friendship with God, but still have defilement on the soul.
  zh: 一个灵魂可以在与神的友谊中死去，但灵魂上仍有污点。
- start: 3299.41
  end: 3300.691
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That is venial defilement, right?
  zh: 那就是小罪的污点，对吧？
- start: 3300.691
  end: 3301.932
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The guilt of venial sin.
  zh: 小罪的罪责。
- start: 3302.475
  end: 3305.519
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But nothing of defilement can enter into heaven.
  zh: 但任何污点都不能进入天堂。
- start: 3306.28
  end: 3307.822
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So what's the conclusion?
  zh: 那结论是什么？
- start: 3308.443
  end: 3318.736
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That soul that's guaranteed of heaven because it died in friendship with Christ, but can't enter heaven because of the defilement, that defilement's going to have to get taken care of.
  zh: 那个因为在与基督的友谊中死去而确保能上天堂的灵魂，但因为污点而不能进入天堂，那个污点必须要被处理。
- start: 3319.258
  end: 3319.898
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do y'all see that?
  zh: 你们都明白吗？
- start: 3319.898
  end: 3320.699
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do you see that?
  zh: 你明白吗？
- start: 3320.699
  end: 3321.479
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Is that clear?
  zh: 清楚吗？
- start: 3321.479
  end: 3322.119
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 3322.659
  end: 3338.466
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, the minute you acknowledge the possibility of dying in friendship with Christ, still with defilement on the soul of venial guilt, but nothing of defilement can enter into heaven, that defilement has to get taken care of.
  zh: 所以，一旦你承认在与基督的友谊中死去的可能性，灵魂上仍带着小罪的污点，但任何污点都不能进入天堂，那个污点就必须要被处理。
- start: 3338.466
  end: 3343.007
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Whether it's an instant or it's a process, guess what?
  zh: 无论是瞬间还是过程，你猜怎么着？
- start: 3343.007
  end: 3344.828
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The church never defined that either.
  zh: 教会也从未对此下定义。
- start: 3345.692
  end: 3354.878
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Whether it's an instant purification where the soul is purified of the defilement, or if it's a process and a long duration, we simply do not know.
  zh: 是灵魂瞬间被净化掉污点，还是一个漫长的过程，我们简单地说不知道。
- start: 3355.019
  end: 3361.443
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The common tradition, the common teaching is that it is a process, it is a duration, but the church has never defined that.
  zh: 普遍的传统，普遍的教导是这是一个过程，是有持续时间的，但教会从未对此下定义。
- start: 3361.837
  end: 3373.106
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So, this I think is our first set of data from the Bible itself that begins us on the journey toward purgatory.
  zh: 所以，我认为这是我们从圣经本身得到的第一组数据，开始了我们理解炼狱的旅程。
- start: 3373.147
  end: 3376.569
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's at least biblically reasonable.
  zh: 这至少在圣经上是合理的。
- start: 3376.95
  end: 3390.621
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: According to the biblical revelation of dying with defilement on the soul but still being in friendship with God, and nothing of defilement can enter into heaven, a theological conclusion would be that defilement has to get taken care of.
  zh: 根据圣经的启示，灵魂带着污点死去但仍与神保持友谊，而任何污点都不能进入天堂，神学上的结论就是这污点必须要被处理。
- start: 3390.621
  end: 3412.041
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: before entering into the beatific vision either in this life or in the next so it's at least biblically reasonable now let's go ahead and take our break right now and when we come back from our break we're going to pick up with data set number two and that is the biblical examples that show the existence of a purifying state after death amen
  zh: 在今生或来世进入真福直观之前，这污点必须要被处理，所以这至少在圣经上是合理的。现在让我们先休息一下，休息回来后我们将继续讨论第二组数据，也就是显示死后存在净化状态的圣经例子，阿们。
