- start: 14.722
  end: 17.905
  speaker: barron
  en: Science is great, and the material world is wonderful.
  zh: 科学很伟大，物质世界很奇妙。
- start: 17.905
  end: 22.529
  speaker: barron
  en: What we can know of it and control it is great, but is that all there is to reality?
  zh: 我们能认识和控制它是很好，但现实就只有这些吗？
- start: 23.25
  end: 31.008
  speaker: barron
  en: Maybe something as mysterious as friendship or falling in love can be reduced to glands or to chemicals or something.
  zh: 也许像友情或坠入爱河这样奥妙的事情可以简化为腺体或化学物质之类的东西。
- start: 31.008
  end: 37.193
  speaker: barron
  en: Even things that we experience in ordinary life don't seem understandable simply in a scientific way.
  zh: 即使是我们日常生活中经历的事情，似乎也不能仅仅用科学的方式来理解。
- start: 37.193
  end: 39.154
  speaker: barron
  en: There are elusive realities.
  zh: 存在着难以捉摸的现实。
- start: 39.795
  end: 44.299
  speaker: barron
  en: Looking around this place, this beautiful place, what inspired these people to do it?
  zh: 环顾这个地方，这个美丽的地方，是什么激发了这些人去创造它？
- start: 44.719
  end: 46.601
  speaker: barron
  en: Oh, it's chemical reactions of the brain?
  zh: 哦，这只是大脑的化学反应？
- start: 46.601
  end: 49.723
  speaker: barron
  en: Doesn't that seem inadequate as an explanation?
  zh: 这样的解释是不是显得不够充分？
- start: 50.276
  end: 52.276
  speaker: barron
  en: I find that fascinating.
  zh: 我觉得这很有趣。
- start: 52.337
  end: 65.619
  speaker: barron
  en: You don't for a second denigrate the visible world or deny what science knows about it, but there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of in your philosophy, or your chemistry, or your physics, or your science.
  zh: 你一刻也不会贬低可见的世界或否认科学对它的认识，但是天地之间有许多事物是你的哲学、化学、物理学或科学所无法想象的。
- start: 65.72
  end: 71.721
  speaker: barron
  en: So I wouldn't pose an either/or like there's science and there's magic, or there's science and superstition.
  zh: 所以我不会把它说成非此即彼，好像是科学和魔法的对立，或者是科学和迷信的对立。
- start: 71.721
  end: 76.322
  speaker: barron
  en: There's science and then there's... wow, there's super science.
  zh: 有科学，然后还有……哇，超级科学。
- start: 76.516
  end: 81.661
  speaker: barron
  en: Thomas Aquinas called theology the sacra scientia; it's the holy science.
  zh: 托马斯·阿奎那称神学为圣学，这是神圣的科学。
- start: 82.322
  end: 85.465
  speaker: barron
  en: It's a way of knowing; I think we have to recover that.
  zh: 这是一种认知方式，我认为我们必须重新找回这一点。
- start: 171.249
  end: 184.697
  speaker: barron
  en: I would submit that the doctrines concerning the so-called last things—hell, purgatory, and heaven—are simultaneously the most fascinating and the most objectionable of all the Catholic Church's beliefs.
  zh: 我认为，关于所谓末世之事——地狱、炼狱和天堂的教义，是公教会所有信仰中最引人入胜又最容易招致反对的。
- start: 188.22
  end: 201.614
  speaker: barron
  en: When people want to critique or dismiss Catholic doctrine, they will often point to the supposed incompatibility of affirming the existence of an all-good God and an eternal hell, a place of unending torture.
  zh: 当人们想要批评或否定公教的教义时，他们常常指出承认全善之神的存在与永恒地狱（一个永无止境的折磨之地）之间的所谓不相容性。
- start: 204.036
  end: 214.584
  speaker: barron
  en: At least from the time of Marx and Freud, many would point to the doctrine concerning heaven as an indication of, at best, the Church's naïveté and, at worst, its duplicity.
  zh: 至少从马克思和弗洛伊德的时代起，许多人就把关于天堂的教义视为教会天真（说得好听）或虚伪（说得难听）的表现。
- start: 216.366
  end: 224.572
  speaker: barron
  en: Is the belief in a place of perfect happiness after we die not a classic case of wishful thinking, childish fantasizing?
  zh: 相信死后有一个完美幸福的地方，难道不是一个典型的一厢情愿、孩子气的幻想吗？
- start: 225.813
  end: 228.935
  speaker: barron
  en: And hasn't it been used as opium for the masses?
  zh: 而且它不是被用作麻痹群众的鸦片吗？
- start: 229.019
  end: 232.46
  speaker: barron
  en: Simply a way to mollify people enduring the agonies of life?
  zh: 仅仅是安抚那些忍受生活痛苦的人们的一种方式？
- start: 234.661
  end: 244.844
  speaker: barron
  en: Even many Christians who gladly accept the doctrines of heaven and hell find the teaching on purgatory bizarre and arbitrary, lacking any biblical foundation.
  zh: 即使是欣然接受天堂和地狱教义的许多基督徒，也觉得关于炼狱的教导古怪而武断，缺乏圣经依据。
- start: 250.767
  end: 257.829
  speaker: barron
  en: Everyone, believer and non-believer alike, wonders and worries at some point about what will happen after we die.
  zh: 每个人，无论是信徒还是非信徒，都会在某个时候对死后会发生什么感到好奇和担忧。
- start: 260.134
  end: 274.5
  speaker: barron
  en: Hamlet spoke of that bourne from which no man returns, and the entire To be or not to be speech reflects an uneasy, bewildered fascination with what awaits us once we've shuffled off this mortal coil.
  zh: 哈姆雷特谈到那个无人能够回返的境界，整个「生存还是毁灭」的独白反映了对我们摆脱这凡尘之躯后等待着我们的事物那种不安而困惑的着迷。
- start: 277.801
  end: 286.685
  speaker: barron
  en: Everyone loves a ghost story, in part because of its cathartic quality, but also because it seems to provide some hint of another world.
  zh: 每个人都喜欢鬼故事，部分原因是它能让人宣泄情感，但也因为它似乎暗示了另一个世界的存在。
- start: 288.646
  end: 295.33
  speaker: barron
  en: More to it, the doctrines of heaven, hell, and purgatory beguile us precisely because of our sense of justice.
  zh: 更重要的是，天堂、地狱和炼狱的教义之所以吸引我们，正是因为我们对正义的感知。
- start: 296.471
  end: 308.397
  speaker: barron
  en: Far too many good people die without receiving in this life a sufficient reward for their goodness, and many wicked people die without being compelled in this life to pay for their wickedness.
  zh: 太多善良的人死去时在今生都没有获得与其善行相称的回报，而许多邪恶的人死去时在今生都没有被迫为其恶行付出代价。
- start: 309.718
  end: 317.562
  speaker: barron
  en: If God is just, it seems there has to be some state of being, some place in which these injustices are set right.
  zh: 如果神是公义的，似乎必须有某种存在状态，某个地方能让这些不公得到纠正。
- start: 320.686
  end: 323.668
  speaker: barron
  en: And so we turn to the last things.
  zh: 因此我们转向末世之事。
- start: 325.47
  end: 329.854
  speaker: barron
  en: What does the Catholic Church teach in regard to heaven, hell, and purgatory?
  zh: 公教会关于天堂、地狱和炼狱有什么教导？
- start: 331.516
  end: 342.726
  speaker: barron
  en: What does it hold concerning a dimension that we cannot directly see but that nevertheless intrigues all of us who live on the near side of the sleep of death?
  zh: 对于我们无法直接看到但却吸引着所有生活在死亡长眠此岸的人的那个维度，它持有什么样的观点？
- start: 387.603
  end: 396.747
  speaker: barron
  en: 'T.S. Eliot said that Western literature is divided between two truly great figures: Shakespeare and Dante, with all the rest qualifying as secondary.'
  zh: 艾略特说，西方文学被两位真正伟大的人物所分割：莎士比亚和但丁，其他所有人都只能算是次要的。
- start: 397.148
  end: 407.252
  speaker: barron
  en: 'If Eliot''s right, how wonderful that the principal work of one of the two greatest writers in the West has to do with our subject: heaven, hell, and purgatory.'
  zh: 如果艾略特是对的，那么西方两位最伟大作家之一的主要作品恰好与我们的主题有关：天堂、地狱和炼狱，这是多么美妙啊。
- start: 407.853
  end: 416.657
  speaker: barron
  en: Dante composed his masterpiece, The Divine Comedy, when he was wandering in exile far from his beloved Florence, a city to which he would never return.
  zh: 但丁创作他的杰作《神曲》时，正流亡在远离他深爱的佛罗伦萨的地方，而他永远也没能回到那座城市。
- start: 417.113
  end: 425.215
  speaker: barron
  en: It was during those lonely years, when he was lost both personally and politically, that Dante composed this work on the world to come.
  zh: 正是在那些孤独的岁月里，当他在个人和政治上都迷失方向时，但丁创作了这部关于来世的作品。
- start: 428.816
  end: 434.297
  speaker: barron
  en: The Divine Comedy is obviously a work of creative imagination, so we shouldn't take it with complete literalness.
  zh: 《神曲》显然是一部富有创造力的想象作品，所以我们不应该完全从字面上理解它。
- start: 434.718
  end: 444.84
  speaker: barron
  en: Nevertheless, it's informed by very sound theology and marked at every turn by the perceptiveness of a transcendentally great poet who is also a profound believer.
  zh: 然而，它建立在非常可靠的神学基础之上，处处都体现出一位超凡诗人和虔诚信徒的洞察力。
- start: 445.137
  end: 451.882
  speaker: barron
  en: Therefore, as we seek to look through the veil into the world to come, we can take Dante as a very reliable guide.
  zh: 因此，当我们试图透过帷幕看向来世时，我们可以把但丁当作一位非常可靠的向导。
- start: 460.489
  end: 464.112
  speaker: barron
  en: Dante's first stop, and ours, will be hell.
  zh: 但丁的第一站，也是我们的第一站，将是地狱。
- start: 465.093
  end: 468.115
  speaker: barron
  en: Dante is led through hell by the Roman poet Virgil.
  zh: 罗马诗人维吉尔引导但丁穿过地狱。
- start: 469.637
  end: 479.729
  speaker: barron
  en: They move downward through the topography of hell, winding their way on an ever-narrower path until they come to the very bottom, where they see Satan himself.
  zh: 他们沿着地狱的地形向下移动，在不断变窄的路径上蜿蜒前行，直到到达最底部，在那里他们看到了撒但本人。
- start: 481.49
  end: 488.834
  speaker: barron
  en: The devil, first of all, is not standing amidst fire, but rather stuck in ice, frozen in place.
  zh: 魔鬼首先并不是站在火中，而是被困在冰里，冻在原地。
- start: 489.694
  end: 496.598
  speaker: barron
  en: St. Augustine defines sin as being incurvatus in se, caved in on oneself.
  zh: 奥古斯丁将罪定义为向内弯曲，即封闭在自我之中。
- start: 500.0
  end: 504.782
  speaker: barron
  en: We are meant to break out of the narrow confines of the self and to mix with the world.
  zh: 我们本应该突破自我的狭隘界限，与世界交融。
- start: 505.467
  end: 508.469
  speaker: barron
  en: We are, by nature, hungry for the fullness of being.
  zh: 我们天性渴望存在的圆满。
- start: 510.271
  end: 517.775
  speaker: barron
  en: To sin is voluntarily to turn away from this and to reign as the sovereign of one's own little kingdom.
  zh: 犯罪就是自愿地背离这一点，在自己的小王国里称王称霸。
- start: 520.758
  end: 524.801
  speaker: barron
  en: In Dante's imagination, Satan has great wings like a bat.
  zh: 在但丁的想象中，撒但有着像蝙蝠一样的巨大翅膀。
- start: 525.461
  end: 527.082
  speaker: barron
  en: We are meant to fly.
  zh: 我们本应该飞翔。
- start: 529.084
  end: 530.505
  speaker: barron
  en: Chesterton asked, Why don't they?
  zh: 切斯特顿问道，为什么他们不飞呢？
- start: 530.505
  end: 531.305
  speaker: barron
  en: His answer?
  zh: 他的答案是？
- start: 534.164
  end: 536.405
  speaker: barron
  en: Because they take themselves so lightly.
  zh: 因为他们太轻视自己了。
- start: 539.166
  end: 543.747
  speaker: barron
  en: Sin is a heaviness, the state of being weighed down.
  zh: 罪是一种沉重，是被压垮的状态。
- start: 544.587
  end: 552.11
  speaker: barron
  en: We try to fly, flapping our wings, because that's our nature, but all we succeed in doing is making the world around us colder.
  zh: 我们试图飞翔，拍打着翅膀，因为这是我们的本性，但我们所能做到的只是让周围的世界变得更冷。
- start: 553.95
  end: 558.812
  speaker: barron
  en: Satan, for Dante, is responsible for the frozen meteorology of hell.
  zh: 对但丁来说，撒但要为地狱的冰冻气候负责。
- start: 563.041
  end: 570.243
  speaker: barron
  en: Satan has three faces, mimicking the three persons of the Trinity, because he dared to grasp at godliness.
  zh: 撒但有三张面孔，模仿三位一体的三个位格，因为他胆敢觊觎神性。
- start: 574.565
  end: 580.667
  speaker: barron
  en: All of us sinners, deep down, think that we're God because we're convinced that the universe revolves around us.
  zh: 我们所有罪人，在内心深处都认为自己是神，因为我们确信宇宙是围绕着我们运转的。
- start: 583.528
  end: 588.49
  speaker: barron
  en: Dante tells us that from all six of his eyes, Satan weeps.
  zh: 但丁告诉我们，撒但的六只眼睛都在流泪。
- start: 590.251
  end: 597.534
  speaker: barron
  en: Sin, self-absorption, being stuck in the narrow confines of the ego, is above all sad.
  zh: 罪、自我沉溺、被困在自我的狭隘界限中，首先是悲哀的。
- start: 598.254
  end: 605.496
  speaker: barron
  en: There's nothing glamorous about evil; it is depressing, soul-shrinking, and finally powerless.
  zh: 邪恶没有任何光彩可言，它令人沮丧、使灵魂萎缩，最终是无能为力的。
- start: 608.277
  end: 612.378
  speaker: barron
  en: When Virgil and Dante approach Satan, he does nothing to stop them.
  zh: 当维吉尔和但丁接近撒但时，他什么也没做来阻止他们。
- start: 612.858
  end: 616.919
  speaker: barron
  en: Like someone caught in a deep depression, he doesn't even notice them.
  zh: 就像陷入深度抑郁的人一样，他甚至没有注意到他们。
- start: 618.3
  end: 623.002
  speaker: barron
  en: This is the total self-absorption of hell.
  zh: 这就是地狱的完全自我沉溺。
- start: 625.725
  end: 629.587
  speaker: barron
  en: Hell, like heaven, can be anticipated even now.
  zh: 地狱和天堂一样，现在就可以预先体验到。
- start: 630.068
  end: 635.592
  speaker: barron
  en: Whenever we choose the iciness of self-absorption, we are tasting hell.
  zh: 每当我们选择自我沉溺的冰冷时，我们就在品尝地狱。
- start: 636.353
  end: 637.994
  speaker: barron
  en: Why is Satan where he is?
  zh: 为什么撒但在那里？
- start: 638.595
  end: 642.518
  speaker: barron
  en: 'The short answer: because he wants to be there.'
  zh: 简单的答案是：因为他想在那里。
- start: 643.199
  end: 652.052
  speaker: barron
  en: The doctrine of hell really is a corollary of two more fundamental convictions, namely that God is love and that we are free.
  zh: 地狱的教义实际上是两个更基本信念的必然结果，即神就是爱，以及我们是自由的。
- start: 652.513
  end: 658.776
  speaker: barron
  en: As I said before, love is not simply an attribute of God, not simply something God does from time to time.
  zh: 如我之前所说，爱不仅仅是神的一个属性，不仅仅是神偶尔会做的事情。
- start: 659.037
  end: 661.338
  speaker: barron
  en: Rather, love is what God is.
  zh: 相反，爱就是神的本质。
- start: 661.338
  end: 665.721
  speaker: barron
  en: God's love, therefore, is like the sun that shines on the good and bad alike.
  zh: 因此，神的爱就像阳光一样照耀在善人和恶人身上。
- start: 666.162
  end: 670.404
  speaker: barron
  en: What makes all the difference is how that love is received.
  zh: 造成所有差异的是如何接受这爱。
- start: 670.544
  end: 680.768
  speaker: barron
  en: If we freely receive it positively, we bask in its light and warmth; but if it's resisted, it becomes like a torture to us.
  zh: 如果我们自由地积极接受它，我们就沐浴在它的光明和温暖中；但如果抗拒它，它就会变成对我们的折磨。
- start: 681.428
  end: 686.91
  speaker: barron
  en: C.S. Lewis said it's precisely the love of God that lights up the fires of hell.
  zh: 路易斯说，正是神的爱点燃了地狱之火。
- start: 687.451
  end: 689.032
  speaker: barron
  en: What could that possibly mean?
  zh: 这可能是什么意思呢？
- start: 689.032
  end: 697.375
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, think of someone who's been stuck in a deep mine for several days and now they're suddenly brought out into the bright glare of the sunlight.
  zh: 想想一个在深矿中被困了几天的人，现在突然被带到耀眼的阳光下。
- start: 697.375
  end: 698.995
  speaker: barron
  en: It would be like agony to them.
  zh: 这对他们来说就像是痛苦。
- start: 699.656
  end: 704.738
  speaker: barron
  en: Or think of someone in a terrible frame of mind; who is most annoying to them?
  zh: 或者想想一个心情糟糕的人，谁最让他们烦恼？
- start: 704.898
  end: 708.119
  speaker: barron
  en: Precisely someone who's relentlessly cheerful.
  zh: 正是那些永远保持愉快的人。
- start: 708.905
  end: 712.547
  speaker: barron
  en: God's love is eternal; God's love is absolute.
  zh: 神的爱是永恒的，神的爱是绝对的。
- start: 712.847
  end: 717.43
  speaker: barron
  en: What makes the difference is how we freely respond to it.
  zh: 造成差异的是我们如何自由地回应它。
- start: 727.316
  end: 733.659
  speaker: barron
  en: We can say yes, or we can say no, and that's the terrible truth in some way about human freedom.
  zh: 我们可以说是，也可以说不，这在某种程度上就是人类自由的可怕真相。
- start: 733.659
  end: 738.662
  speaker: barron
  en: God gave us the ability to say yes to Him or to say no, so finally it's up to us.
  zh: 神给了我们对他说是或说不的能力，所以最终取决于我们。
- start: 738.843
  end: 742.625
  speaker: barron
  en: If you put the onus on God, you shouldn't put it on God; the onus is on us.
  zh: 如果你把责任推给神，你不应该这样做；责任在我们身上。
- start: 742.626
  end: 744.027
  speaker: barron
  en: Do you accept this life?
  zh: 你接受这生命吗？
- start: 744.027
  end: 745.348
  speaker: barron
  en: Do you jump into the party?
  zh: 你会投入这欢宴吗？
- start: 745.348
  end: 746.528
  speaker: barron
  en: Do you join it?
  zh: 你会加入吗？
- start: 746.629
  end: 751.372
  speaker: barron
  en: Or are you like that person who sits sullenly in the corner while the party swirls around them?
  zh: 还是你像那个在角落里闷闷不乐地坐着的人，任由派对在他们周围热闹？
- start: 751.712
  end: 762.279
  speaker: barron
  en: If anyone's in hell—and again I say if because we don't know if anyone's there—it's because they stubbornly are sitting in the corner of the party while the whole thing festively swirls around them.
  zh: 如果有人在地狱中——我再说如果，因为我们不知道是否有人在那里——那是因为他们固执地坐在派对的角落里，而整个派对欢快地在他们周围旋转。
- start: 762.68
  end: 768.884
  speaker: barron
  en: Not that God has sent them to the corner; they've sat sullenly in the corner, and they won't move.
  zh: 不是神把他们送到角落里，而是他们自己闷闷不乐地坐在角落里，而且不愿意移动。
- start: 798.624
  end: 798.624
  speaker: barron
  en: Thank you.
  zh: 谢谢。
- start: 798.624
  end: 807.687
  speaker: barron
  en: If the doctrine concerning hell is the most disturbing and puzzling of all the teachings in the Catholic system, probably the teaching about purgatory is a close second.
  zh: 如果说关于地狱的教义是公教体系中最令人不安和困惑的教导，那么关于炼狱的教导可能是第二位的。
- start: 807.987
  end: 817.911
  speaker: barron
  en: For many Christians, even many Catholics, purgatory seems to be just a holdover from the Middle Ages, a superstitious and unnecessary teaching with no real biblical support.
  zh: 对许多基督徒，甚至许多公教徒来说，炼狱似乎只是中世纪的遗留物，是一个没有真正圣经依据的迷信和不必要的教导。
- start: 818.354
  end: 825.397
  speaker: barron
  en: Given the way that purgatory was used, at least indirectly, in the Middle Ages as a form of fundraising, think of the buying and selling of indulgences.
  zh: 想想在中世纪炼狱是如何被用作筹款手段的，至少是间接地，比如赎罪券的买卖。
- start: 825.478
  end: 829.799
  speaker: barron
  en: Martin Luther and the other Protestant reformers were sharp critics of the doctrine of purgatory.
  zh: 路德和其他新教改革者都强烈批评炼狱的教义。
- start: 829.98
  end: 833.861
  speaker: barron
  en: But what does the Catholic Church teach in this regard?
  zh: 但公教会在这方面是如何教导的呢？
- start: 839.244
  end: 842.866
  speaker: barron
  en: Here's the formulation found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
  zh: 这是在《公教会教理》中的表述。
- start: 844.105
  end: 851.666
  speaker: barron
  en: All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation.
  zh: 所有在神的恩典和友谊中死去，但尚未完全净化的人，确实已确保他们永恒的救恩。
- start: 852.206
  end: 858.847
  speaker: barron
  en: But after death, they undergo purification so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.
  zh: 但在死后，他们要经过净化，以达到进入天堂喜乐所必需的圣洁。
- start: 860.408
  end: 865.769
  speaker: barron
  en: The Church gives the name purgatory to this final purification of the elect.
  zh: 教会将这种选民的最后净化称为炼狱。
- start: 868.989
  end: 877.721
  speaker: barron
  en: Consider how a bad action performed repeatedly twists the will, predisposing it to choose along the same negative line in the future.
  zh: 想想一个反复做的坏行为如何扭曲意志，使它倾向于在未来沿着同样的负面方向选择。
- start: 879.462
  end: 882.004
  speaker: barron
  en: This sort of sin, therefore, needs correction.
  zh: 因此，这种罪需要纠正。
- start: 882.725
  end: 889.911
  speaker: barron
  en: The wounds that it leaves need healing, and the negative tendency it inculcates needs redirecting.
  zh: 它留下的伤口需要愈合，它灌输的负面倾向需要重新引导。
- start: 894.955
  end: 902.161
  speaker: barron
  en: Loch Durg is a rocky, uninviting island located in the middle of a forgotten lake in northwest Ireland.
  zh: 洛赫杜尔格是一个位于爱尔兰西北部一个被遗忘的湖泊中央的岩石荒岛。
- start: 902.881
  end: 910.566
  speaker: barron
  en: To this place, strangely, thousands of people come every year in order to make a penitential spiritual retreat.
  zh: 奇怪的是，每年都有数千人来到这个地方进行忏悔性的灵修退省。
- start: 911.847
  end: 916.23
  speaker: barron
  en: They are ferried to the island and then told to take off their shoes and socks.
  zh: 他们乘船到岛上，然后被告知要脱掉鞋子和袜子。
- start: 917.511
  end: 921.674
  speaker: barron
  en: They are to remain unshod for the duration of their spiritual exercise.
  zh: 在他们进行灵修操练期间，他们要一直赤着脚。
- start: 924.376
  end: 931.421
  speaker: barron
  en: They spend the first day praying the Rosary, walking on their knees over punishing beds of stone, and attending services.
  zh: 他们第一天的时间都在祈祷玫瑰经，跪着走过惩罚性的石床，并参加礼拜。
- start: 932.537
  end: 939.838
  speaker: barron
  en: For that day and night, they are not permitted to sleep; if they doze off, attendants rudely awaken them.
  zh: 在那一天一夜里，他们不被允许睡觉；如果他们打盹，服务人员会粗暴地把他们叫醒。
- start: 941.299
  end: 948.56
  speaker: barron
  en: After two and a half days of practically constant prayer and spiritual exertion, the retreatants are ferried back to the mainland.
  zh: 经过两天半几乎不间断的祈祷和灵修操练后，退省者们被渡船送回大陆。
- start: 950.64
  end: 953.941
  speaker: barron
  en: In the Middle Ages, this island was known as St. Patrick's Purgatory.
  zh: 在中世纪，这个岛被称为圣帕特里克的炼狱。
- start: 953.941
  end: 958.662
  speaker: barron
  en: A popular legend said that the entrance to purgatory was nearby.
  zh: 一个流行的传说称炼狱的入口就在附近。
- start: 960.959
  end: 973.343
  speaker: barron
  en: We can dispense, of course, with the crude literalism, but we should still pay attention to the association of what took and takes place on Loch Durg and what the Church means by purgatory in the supernatural sense.
  zh: 当然，我们可以摒弃粗糙的字面解释，但我们仍应注意洛赫杜尔格上发生的事情与教会所说的超自然意义上的炼狱之间的联系。
- start: 974.763
  end: 980.285
  speaker: barron
  en: Those who come to the island love God; they wouldn't go through such punishment unless they did.
  zh: 那些来到岛上的人爱神，如果不是这样，他们就不会经历这样的惩罚。
- start: 980.885
  end: 989.308
  speaker: barron
  en: But they recognize imperfections in themselves which need to be corrected so that their relationship to God might be set fully right.
  zh: 但他们认识到自己的不完美需要被纠正，这样他们与神的关系才能完全正确。
- start: 990.578
  end: 995.161
  speaker: barron
  en: Therefore, they willingly go through a crucible.
  zh: 因此，他们心甘情愿地经历这个考验。
- start: 995.161
  end: 1004.305
  speaker: barron
  en: Just as denizens of hell, if there are any, are there freely, so those who pass through purgatory do so because they want to.
  zh: 就像地狱里的居民（如果有的话）是自由地在那里一样，那些经过炼狱的人也是因为他们想要这样做。
- start: 1005.446
  end: 1016.212
  speaker: barron
  en: Once more, this has nothing to do with a supposed cruelty or capriciousness on God's part; it has to do with the sinner's perceived need to deal with the effects of his sin.
  zh: 再说一次，这与神方面所谓的残酷或反复无常无关；这与罪人意识到需要处理他的罪的影响有关。
- start: 1032.549
  end: 1041.513
  speaker: barron
  en: Imagine a worldly person—self-absorbed, superficial, spiritually undeveloped—who suddenly experiences a conversion to God.
  zh: 想象一个世俗的人——自我沉溺、肤浅、灵性未发展——突然经历了向神的皈依。
- start: 1042.314
  end: 1045.755
  speaker: barron
  en: He perceives the inadequacy of his life, and he wants to change.
  zh: 他意识到自己生命的不足，他想要改变。
- start: 1046.976
  end: 1053.379
  speaker: barron
  en: So impulsively, he leaves his job and travels to Calcutta to help in the work of the Missionaries of Charity.
  zh: 所以他冲动地辞掉工作，前往加尔各答帮助仁爱传教会的工作。
- start: 1056.901
  end: 1068.336
  speaker: barron
  en: As he shares the lives of the sisters and joins in their daily task of caring for the most wretched, he is, objectively speaking, in heaven, for he’s fully surrendered to a life of love and self-denial.
  zh: 当他与修女们分享生活，加入她们照顾最可怜者的日常工作时，客观来说，他是在天堂里，因为他完全投入了一个充满爱和自我否定的生活。
- start: 1070.498
  end: 1085.987
  speaker: barron
  en: But his years of hedonism, materialism, and self-absorption have so poorly disposed him to such a life that he experiences it as hellish suffering, awakening in him the deepest anxiety and resentment.
  zh: 但他多年的享乐主义、物质主义和自我沉溺使他如此不适应这样的生活，以至于他把它经历为地狱般的痛苦，唤醒了他内心最深的焦虑和怨恨。
- start: 1090.15
  end: 1103.036
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, if he remains open to the life, if he continues, despite his resistance, to give himself to it, he will find in time his resistances weakening and his faults purged away.
  zh: 现在，如果他对这种生活保持开放，如果他继续投入其中，尽管有抗拒，他会发现随着时间推移他的抗拒会减弱，他的过错会被清除。
- start: 1104.317
  end: 1117.143
  speaker: barron
  en: He will discover at last that it is possible to walk the path of love effortlessly and freely, and at that moment, the place of suffering will become a place of springs.
  zh: 他最终会发现，轻松自由地走在爱的道路上是可能的，在那一刻，受苦之地将变成泉源之地。
- start: 1119.639
  end: 1124.122
  speaker: barron
  en: This, I think, is an apt analogy for what the Church means by purgatory.
  zh: 我认为，这是一个恰当的比喻，说明了教会所说的炼狱的含义。
- start: 1124.902
  end: 1145.195
  speaker: barron
  en: There are many people who leave this life as friends of God, but far from able to live the life of heaven effortlessly, they require, accordingly, a Loch Derg, a Calcutta—a necessarily painful training in the way of love.
  zh: 有许多人离开这个世界时是神的朋友，但远不能轻松地过天堂的生活，因此，他们需要一个洛赫杜尔格，一个加尔各答——一个必要的、痛苦的爱之道的训练。
- start: 1155.525
  end: 1157.025
  speaker: barron
  en: Isn't this a little much?
  zh: 这是不是有点过分了？
- start: 1157.466
  end: 1158.787
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, in a certain way, yes.
  zh: 嗯，从某种程度上说，是的。
- start: 1158.787
  end: 1163.291
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, it’s kind of an extreme example of the penitential exercise.
  zh: 我的意思是，这是一个比较极端的忏悔操练的例子。
- start: 1163.291
  end: 1165.572
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, look at the areas of life we engage in.
  zh: 你知道，看看我们生活中参与的各个领域。
- start: 1165.572
  end: 1176.96
  speaker: barron
  en: If we’re trying to get better at a sport, think of the Chicago Bears getting ready for their season, doing two-a-day workouts in the August sun, pushing themselves to the limits.
  zh: 如果我们想在运动上有所进步，想想芝加哥熊队为赛季做准备，在八月的太阳下一天训练两次，把自己逼到极限。
- start: 1176.96
  end: 1180.442
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of someone training for a marathon, how they’ll run and run and run.
  zh: 想想那些为马拉松训练的人，他们会不停地跑，跑，再跑。
- start: 1180.442
  end: 1185.444
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of someone training to play the piano or to learn the guitar until their fingers are bleeding.
  zh: 想想那些练习钢琴或学习吉他直到手指流血的人。
- start: 1185.444
  end: 1192.247
  speaker: barron
  en: We do all kinds of things to the extreme if we want something, if we want some excellence, if we want some perfection.
  zh: 如果我们想要某样东西，如果我们追求卓越，如果我们追求完美，我们会做各种极端的事情。
- start: 1192.247
  end: 1198.83
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, look, compare playing the guitar, playing football for the Chicago Bears, and running a marathon to eternal life.
  zh: 好吧，看看弹吉他、为芝加哥熊队打橄榄球和跑马拉松与永生相比。
- start: 1198.891
  end: 1204.433
  speaker: barron
  en: The people here recognize the importance of the spiritual as the prime value.
  zh: 这里的人认识到灵性的重要性是首要价值。
- start: 1204.602
  end: 1205.263
  speaker: barron
  en: What are they doing?
  zh: 他们在做什么？
- start: 1205.263
  end: 1216.317
  speaker: barron
  en: They’re going to a kind of extreme to discipline themselves and to mortify themselves to attain this perfection, this spiritual perfection.
  zh: 他们正在采取某种极端的方式来约束自己，克制自己，以达到这种完美，这种灵性的完美。
- start: 1216.718
  end: 1221.544
  speaker: barron
  en: So I think if people are willing to do it for football, shouldn’t they do it for their eternal life?
  zh: 所以我想，如果人们愿意为橄榄球这样做，难道不应该为永生这样做吗？
- start: 1259.352
  end: 1265.435
  speaker: barron
  en: We’ve been talking about hell and purgatory, states of being that transcend the world of ordinary experience.
  zh: 我们一直在谈论地狱和炼狱，这些超越普通经验世界的存在状态。
- start: 1267.136
  end: 1269.877
  speaker: barron
  en: But is this kind of speech even coherent?
  zh: 但这种说法真的合理吗？
- start: 1271.238
  end: 1275.92
  speaker: barron
  en: Why should we imagine that there is anything beyond what we can see, touch, and measure?
  zh: 为什么我们要想象在我们能看到、触摸和测量的事物之外还有什么？
- start: 1280.535
  end: 1283.155
  speaker: barron
  en: There’s a line in the Creed to which we rarely attend.
  zh: 在信经中有一句我们很少注意的话。
- start: 1283.155
  end: 1291.016
  speaker: barron
  en: The Creed speaks of God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, of all that is seen and unseen.
  zh: 信经谈到神，天地的创造者，一切有形无形之物的创造者。
- start: 1291.997
  end: 1302.178
  speaker: barron
  en: The Bible is intensely interested in the full panoply of visible things—human beings, plants, animals, trees, the earth itself, and even those things that crawl upon the earth.
  zh: 圣经对所有可见之物都极其关注——人类、植物、动物、树木、地球本身，甚至那些在地上爬行的东西。
- start: 1302.919
  end: 1312.131
  speaker: barron
  en: But the Bible is also interested in that whole realm of God's invisible creation, those beings at a higher pitch of existence.
  zh: 但圣经也关注神所创造的整个无形领域，那些处于更高存在层次的生命。
- start: 1315.193
  end: 1316.974
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm talking about the angels.
  zh: 我说的是天使。
- start: 1318.536
  end: 1327.141
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, I know in this day and age, to talk about believing in the angels seems at best charming and at worst naive and superstitious.
  zh: 现在，我知道在这个时代，谈论相信天使似乎最好也不过是迷人，最差则是天真和迷信。
- start: 1328.383
  end: 1343.144
  speaker: barron
  en: 'But think of it this way: given what we know about the enormous variety of God''s physical creation, is it likely that between this physical world and God there simply yawns this great abyss?'
  zh: 但这样想想：考虑到我们所知的神的物质创造的巨大多样性，在这个物质世界和神之间仅仅存在一个巨大的鸿沟，这可能吗？
- start: 1344.265
  end: 1349.387
  speaker: barron
  en: Both Thomas Aquinas in the Middle Ages and Teilhard de Chardin in modern times said no.
  zh: 中世纪的托马斯·阿奎那和现代的德日进都说不是。
- start: 1349.648
  end: 1356.912
  speaker: barron
  en: It's far more likely that space is filled with an equally great variety of spiritual creatures.
  zh: 更有可能的是，空间中充满了同样丰富多样的灵性生物。
- start: 1357.812
  end: 1363.756
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Here’s how Thomas Aquinas talked about the angels: he said they are separated intelligences.'
  zh: 托马斯·阿奎那是这样谈论天使的：他说它们是分离的智性。
- start: 1363.756
  end: 1374.396
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Here’s what he means: they are spiritual beings endowed with mind and will, but they’re not tied to matter the way that we are.'
  zh: 他的意思是：它们是具有心智和意志的灵性存在，但它们不像我们这样与物质相连。
- start: 1375.597
  end: 1381.178
  speaker: barron
  en: The angel knows and wills, but at a much higher pitch of intensity, not tied to matter.
  zh: 天使有认知和意志，但是在更高的强度上，不受物质束缚。
- start: 1382.378
  end: 1387.479
  speaker: barron
  en: And that means, Thomas said, that every angel is his own species.
  zh: 托马斯说，这意味着每个天使都是自己的物种。
- start: 1389.159
  end: 1392.32
  speaker: barron
  en: I know that’s kind of a strange idea, but it’s interesting when you think about it.
  zh: 我知道这是个有点奇怪的想法，但当你思考它时会发现很有趣。
- start: 1392.685
  end: 1399.887
  speaker: barron
  en: What makes me an individual of the species humanity is this particular body that I have, these flesh and bones.
  zh: 使我成为人类物种中的个体的是我所拥有的这个特定的身体，这些血肉之躯。
- start: 1400.107
  end: 1406.268
  speaker: barron
  en: An angel, though, is not tied to matter; therefore, each angel is his own species or type.
  zh: 然而，天使不受物质束缚，因此，每个天使都是自己的物种或类型。
- start: 1406.748
  end: 1418.095
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Look, here’s what it means: imagine every human being who has ever existed, every human being currently existing, and every human being who will ever live until the end of time.'
  zh: 看，这就是它的意思：想象每一个曾经存在的人，每一个现在存在的人，以及每一个直到时间终结都将活着的人。
- start: 1418.095
  end: 1423.618
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, imagine all of them gathered together as one great archetypal human.
  zh: 现在，想象把他们全都集中在一起成为一个伟大的原型人类。
- start: 1424.118
  end: 1428.98
  speaker: barron
  en: That would give you an idea of what one angel is like.
  zh: 这就能让你对一个天使的样子有个概念。
- start: 1429.501
  end: 1435.223
  speaker: barron
  en: It also helps to explain why, in the Bible, the typical reaction to an angel is fear.
  zh: 这也有助于解释为什么在圣经中，对天使的典型反应是恐惧。
- start: 1436.324
  end: 1439.985
  speaker: barron
  en: In our tradition, the angels are associated with the praise of God.
  zh: 在我们的传统中，天使与赞美神联系在一起。
- start: 1439.985
  end: 1443.747
  speaker: barron
  en: We imagine them around the throne of God, offering praise to the Lord.
  zh: 我们想象它们围绕在神的宝座周围，向主献上赞美。
- start: 1444.011
  end: 1450.913
  speaker: barron
  en: In fact, the highest angels, the Seraphim, derive their name from a Hebrew word that means the burnt ones.
  zh: 事实上，最高等的天使，撒拉弗，其名字来自希伯来语，意思是被焚烧的。
- start: 1451.553
  end: 1455.114
  speaker: barron
  en: They’re on fire; they’re so close to the presence of God.
  zh: 它们在燃烧，因为它们离神的同在如此之近。
- start: 1455.634
  end: 1459.215
  speaker: barron
  en: We also speak, in this context, of the singing of the angels.
  zh: 在这个背景下，我们也谈到天使的歌唱。
- start: 1459.215
  end: 1461.475
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, don't over-literalize that language.
  zh: 现在，不要过分字面化地理解这种说法。
- start: 1461.475
  end: 1468.537
  speaker: barron
  en: What it means is the harmony of mind and will among the angels as together they praise God.
  zh: 这意味着天使们在一起赞美神时，他们的心智和意志的和谐。
- start: 1469.304
  end: 1475.587
  speaker: barron
  en: This is also why, liturgically, we seek to join our voices to the voices of the angels.
  zh: 这也是为什么在礼仪上，我们寻求将我们的声音与天使的声音结合。
- start: 1475.587
  end: 1481.029
  speaker: barron
  en: We say, Lord, may our praise be one with theirs, as we sing Holy, Holy, Holy.
  zh: 我们说，主啊，愿我们的赞美与他们的合而为一，当我们唱圣哉，圣哉，圣哉。
- start: 1481.029
  end: 1487.832
  speaker: barron
  en: What we’re praying is that we might find the same communion of mind and heart that they find in heaven.
  zh: 我们祈祷的是，愿我们能找到他们在天上所找到的同样的心灵共融。
- start: 1488.733
  end: 1493.995
  speaker: barron
  en: The word angel is from the Greek word angelos, which just means messenger.
  zh: 天使这个词来自希腊语angelos，就是使者的意思。
- start: 1494.775
  end: 1499.738
  speaker: barron
  en: That’s why St. Augustine said angels are named not from their nature but from their mission.
  zh: 这就是为什么奥古斯丁说天使的名字不是来自它们的本性，而是来自它们的使命。
- start: 1500.539
  end: 1508.603
  speaker: barron
  en: Angels are sent; we hear of Gabriel sent to the Virgin Mary to announce the Incarnation.
  zh: 天使是被差遣的；我们听说加百列被差遣到童贞马利亚那里宣告道成肉身。
- start: 1510.445
  end: 1515.888
  speaker: barron
  en: I've already spoken about that stratios, that whole army of angels that announce the Good News of Christmas.
  zh: 我已经谈到过那支天军，那整个宣告圣诞佳音的天使军队。
- start: 1517.649
  end: 1523.653
  speaker: barron
  en: Angels, though they are purely spiritual beings, can interface with our world.
  zh: 天使，尽管是纯粹的灵性存在，却能与我们的世界互动。
- start: 1525.455
  end: 1526.936
  speaker: barron
  en: How do we understand that?
  zh: 我们如何理解这一点？
- start: 1527.257
  end: 1541.528
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Think of this: a three-year-old child couldn’t possibly move into an adult conversation, but an adult could condescend, could stoop low, and enter into the thought world, into the imagination of a child.'
  zh: 想想这个：一个三岁的孩子不可能进入成人的对话，但一个成年人可以俯就，可以降低身份，进入孩子的思想世界，进入孩子的想象。
- start: 1541.709
  end: 1551.517
  speaker: barron
  en: In a similar way, these beings at a higher pitch of existence could condescend to enter into our world to interface with us.
  zh: 同样的，这些处于更高存在层次的生命也可以俯就进入我们的世界与我们互动。
- start: 1552.91
  end: 1560.935
  speaker: barron
  en: If you're still thinking, I don't know, it just seems sort of naive to believe in angels, think of that line from Shakespeare's Hamlet.
  zh: 如果你仍在想，我不知道，相信天使似乎有点天真，想想莎士比亚《哈姆雷特》中的那句话。
- start: 1561.496
  end: 1568.361
  speaker: barron
  en: Hamlet turns to his friend and he says, Horatio, there are more things in heaven and on earth than are dreamed of in your philosophies.
  zh: 哈姆雷特转向他的朋友说：「贺瑞修，天地之间有许多事，是你的哲学里所没有梦想到的。」
- start: 1568.441
  end: 1578.688
  speaker: barron
  en: Maybe it’s our rationalism and our materialism that are too cramped, that prevent us from appreciating this invisible world of God’s creations.
  zh: 也许是我们的理性主义和唯物主义太过狭隘，使我们无法欣赏神所创造的这个无形世界。
- start: 1589.349
  end: 1609.839
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, just as there are fallen, wicked, compromised human beings, so the Church believes there are fallen, wicked angels—angels who have fallen out of the right praise of God and have turned in on themselves in pride, becoming, as it were, spiritual black holes.
  zh: 现在，正如有堕落、邪恶、妥协的人一样，教会相信也有堕落、邪恶的天使——这些天使已经偏离了对神的正确赞美，因骄傲而自我封闭，变成了所谓的灵性黑洞。
- start: 1610.799
  end: 1622.242
  speaker: barron
  en: Imagine the most wicked person you know; now transpose that wickedness to a higher and more intense spiritual plane, and you have some idea of what the Church means by a devil.
  zh: 想象你所知道的最邪恶的人；现在把那种邪恶提升到一个更高更强烈的灵性层面，你就能理解教会所说的魔鬼是什么意思了。
- start: 1622.822
  end: 1624.262
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, we have to be careful here.
  zh: 现在，我们在这里要小心。
- start: 1624.262
  end: 1629.764
  speaker: barron
  en: Christianity is not a Manichaean system, not a black-white war of good against evil.
  zh: 基督教不是摩尼教体系，不是善恶对立的黑白之战。
- start: 1629.764
  end: 1638.726
  speaker: barron
  en: The devil is in no sense God's rival; the devil is a creature of God, and whatever the devil is and does is through God's permission.
  zh: 魔鬼绝不是神的对手；魔鬼是神的受造物，魔鬼的一切所是所为都是经过神的允许的。
- start: 1639.566
  end: 1645.067
  speaker: barron
  en: Nevertheless, we shouldn't underestimate the spiritual warfare.
  zh: 然而，我们不应低估这场属灵争战。
- start: 1645.816
  end: 1652.837
  speaker: barron
  en: St. Paul said we do battle not with flesh and blood, but with powers and principalities.
  zh: 保罗说我们争战的对象不是属血气的，而是执政的和掌权的。
- start: 1653.297
  end: 1660.418
  speaker: barron
  en: The Book of Revelation speaks of the war of the angels which has spilled over into our dimension.
  zh: 启示录讲到天使之战已经蔓延到我们的维度。
- start: 1661.419
  end: 1668.06
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm standing here in the Cathedral of Orvieto before what I think is one of the most chilling religious paintings in the world.
  zh: 我现在站在奥尔维耶托大教堂里，在我认为是世界上最令人毛骨悚然的宗教画作之一的面前。
- start: 1669.08
  end: 1673.461
  speaker: barron
  en: Luca Signorelli did this wonderful scene of the Antichrist.
  zh: 卢卡·西涅列利画了这幅精彩的敌基督场景。
- start: 1673.761
  end: 1681.07
  speaker: barron
  en: You see him there in the middle; he looks for all the world like Jesus in the face, in his vesture.
  zh: 你看他在中间，他的面容和衣着看起来就像耶稣一样。
- start: 1682.131
  end: 1689.396
  speaker: barron
  en: But then you see that troubling expression on his face, and then you notice the devil whispering in his ear.
  zh: 但随后你会看到他脸上那令人不安的表情，然后你注意到魔鬼在他耳边低语。
- start: 1689.396
  end: 1696.159
  speaker: barron
  en: 'And then this beautiful detail: see how the devil''s hand comes through his vesture, so it looks for all the world like his own hand.'
  zh: 还有这个精妙的细节：看魔鬼的手是如何穿过他的衣服，看起来就像是他自己的手一样。
- start: 1697.78
  end: 1700.482
  speaker: barron
  en: How do devils interface with our world?
  zh: 魔鬼如何与我们的世界互动？
- start: 1701.062
  end: 1706.205
  speaker: barron
  en: Sometimes in very direct and frightening ways—talk to anyone involved seriously in the work of exorcism.
  zh: 有时是以非常直接和可怕的方式——问问那些认真从事驱魔工作的人就知道了。
- start: 1707.383
  end: 1720.888
  speaker: barron
  en: But more often than not, the devils insinuate themselves through temptation, moving us off of the praise of God and into their own dark spiritual space.
  zh: 但更多时候，魔鬼是通过诱惑来潜入，使我们偏离对神的赞美，进入他们黑暗的灵性空间。
- start: 1722.529
  end: 1726.451
  speaker: barron
  en: Again, you might be wondering, isn't this all kind of medieval to be talking about devils?
  zh: 再次，你可能会想，谈论魔鬼是不是很中世纪？
- start: 1727.051
  end: 1731.453
  speaker: barron
  en: Isn't evil caused by wicked human hearts, by fallen and wicked human institutions?
  zh: 邪恶不是由邪恶的人心，由堕落和邪恶的人类机构造成的吗？
- start: 1731.453
  end: 1738.544
  speaker: barron
  en: Look, the Bible knows all about fallen individuals; it knows all about structural sin, institutional sin.
  zh: 看，圣经完全知道堕落的个人；它也完全知道结构性的罪，制度性的罪。
- start: 1738.604
  end: 1745.765
  speaker: barron
  en: But the Bible insists there’s a third and more pervasive, more mysterious, and more frightening level of dysfunction.
  zh: 但圣经坚持认为还有第三个更普遍、更神秘、更可怕的失序层面。
- start: 1745.885
  end: 1748.246
  speaker: barron
  en: It speaks of these fallen spirits.
  zh: 它说的是这些堕落的灵。
- start: 1749.306
  end: 1754.087
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Here’s the good news: Christ has done battle with all these different levels of evil.'
  zh: 这是好消息：基督已经与这所有不同层面的邪恶争战。
- start: 1754.087
  end: 1756.628
  speaker: barron
  en: He's done battle with individual sin and conquered it.
  zh: 他已经与个人的罪争战并且得胜。
- start: 1756.628
  end: 1759.168
  speaker: barron
  en: He's done battle with institutional sin and conquered it.
  zh: 他已经与制度性的罪争战并且得胜。
- start: 1759.168
  end: 1763.389
  speaker: barron
  en: And yes, he's done battle with this spiritual dimension and has conquered it.
  zh: 是的，他已经与这个灵性维度争战并且得胜。
- start: 1763.86
  end: 1774.366
  speaker: barron
  en: Therefore, we know that even in the midst of the spiritual struggle, we are on the winning side, and therefore we can be, in the spiritual life, happy warriors.
  zh: 因此，我们知道即使在属灵争战中，我们也是在得胜的一方，所以在属灵生活中，我们可以成为快乐的战士。
- start: 1784.352
  end: 1788.474
  speaker: barron
  en: I remember years ago, when I lived in Paris, going through the Picasso Museum.
  zh: 我记得多年前，当我住在巴黎时，参观毕加索博物馆。
- start: 1788.816
  end: 1794.817
  speaker: barron
  en: It's this château that's just filled with these Picasso works of art; every room was a different period.
  zh: 那是一座充满毕加索艺术作品的城堡；每个房间都展示着不同时期的作品。
- start: 1794.877
  end: 1802.499
  speaker: barron
  en: Picasso was so fecund in his creativity that there'd be this period in one room, then another period in the next decade, and it never stopped changing.
  zh: 毕加索的创造力如此丰富，这个房间是一个时期，下一个十年又是另一个时期，从未停止变化。
- start: 1802.499
  end: 1803.839
  speaker: barron
  en: That guy never quit.
  zh: 那家伙从未停止。
- start: 1804.579
  end: 1807.9
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, that’s what you see all around the physical world.
  zh: 这就是你在物质世界中所看到的一切。
- start: 1808.42
  end: 1813.341
  speaker: barron
  en: Why would we imagine that God’s creativity is limited to this universe that we can measure and see?
  zh: 为什么我们要想象神的创造力仅限于我们可以测量和看到的这个宇宙？
- start: 1813.421
  end: 1817.441
  speaker: barron
  en: Isn’t it likely even that it stretches way beyond it to other dimensions?
  zh: 它是不是很可能延伸到其他维度？
- start: 1817.441
  end: 1818.622
  speaker: barron
  en: That’s where the angels would come in.
  zh: 这就是天使所在的地方。
- start: 1818.622
  end: 1821.583
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Is there any way of saying how many?
  zh: 有什么方法可以说出有多少吗？
- start: 1822.183
  end: 1823.204
  speaker: barron
  en: No, I don't know.
  zh: 不，我不知道。
- start: 1823.204
  end: 1828.387
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Thomas Aquinas says he thinks there are a lot of them, and what I like about that answer is: why not?'
  zh: 托马斯·阿奎那说他认为有很多天使，我喜欢这个答案的原因是：为什么不呢？
- start: 1828.387
  end: 1829.247
  speaker: barron
  en: How many bugs are there?
  zh: 有多少虫子？
- start: 1829.247
  end: 1830.568
  speaker: barron
  en: A lot of bugs.
  zh: 很多虫子。
- start: 1830.568
  end: 1831.548
  speaker: barron
  en: How many fish are there?
  zh: 有多少鱼？
- start: 1831.548
  end: 1832.369
  speaker: barron
  en: Millions of fish.
  zh: 数百万条鱼。
- start: 1832.369
  end: 1838.192
  speaker: barron
  en: You walk on the ocean shore, and you see the zillions of little shells left behind.
  zh: 你在海边走，你看到无数的小贝壳留在那里。
- start: 1838.192
  end: 1844.975
  speaker: barron
  en: If God is that exuberant in his creativity here below, why wouldn’t he be so exuberant above?
  zh: 如果神在这地上的创造如此丰富，为什么他在天上不会同样丰富呢？
- start: 1845.155
  end: 1848.988
  speaker: barron
  en: 'So, I sort of like that answer: there are a lot of them, but who knows?'
  zh: 所以，我有点喜欢这个答案：有很多天使，但谁知道具体有多少呢？
- start: 1877.054
  end: 1883.977
  speaker: barron
  en: In coming to the topic of heaven, we’ve come to the end of this series because we’ve come to the very goal of the Catholic faith.
  zh: 在谈到天堂这个主题时，我们来到了这个系列的结尾，因为我们已经来到了公教信仰的最终目标。
- start: 1884.437
  end: 1893.501
  speaker: barron
  en: Everything else I’ve talked about—God, Jesus, the Church, liturgy, sacraments—all of it is meant to conduce finally to heaven.
  zh: 我所谈到的其他一切——神、耶稣、教会、礼仪、圣事——这一切最终都是为了引向天堂。
- start: 1894.222
  end: 1900.904
  speaker: barron
  en: God wants to share with us His own Trinitarian life, and that means the life of love.
  zh: 神想要与我们分享他自己的三位一体的生命，这意味着爱的生命。
- start: 1901.545
  end: 1906.987
  speaker: barron
  en: Heaven is love; it’s love brought to fulfillment and completion.
  zh: 天堂就是爱；是被带到完满和完成的爱。
- start: 1907.611
  end: 1914.775
  speaker: barron
  en: 'That’s why St. Paul can say there are three things that last: faith, hope, and love, but the greatest of these is love.'
  zh: 这就是为什么保罗能说有三样常存的：信心、盼望、爱，其中最大的是爱。
- start: 1915.076
  end: 1920.859
  speaker: barron
  en: That’s because, in heaven, faith and hope will have faded away, but love remains.
  zh: 这是因为在天堂里，信心和盼望都会消失，但爱永远长存。
- start: 1922.06
  end: 1930.024
  speaker: barron
  en: 'There are many images in the Bible and the great tradition for heaven: think of eternal life, eternal rest, the banquet, the wedding feast.'
  zh: 在圣经和伟大传统中有许多关于天堂的图像：想想永生、永恒的安息、筵席、婚宴。
- start: 1930.565
  end: 1938.102
  speaker: barron
  en: All these say something true and right about heaven, but all fall short of that reality which eye has not seen and ear has not heard.
  zh: 这些都说出了关于天堂的真实和正确的事，但都无法完全描述那眼睛未曾看见、耳朵未曾听见的实际。
- start: 1938.102
  end: 1950.148
  speaker: barron
  en: 'There are three images in particular I want to focus on: the beatific vision, the city, and the new heavens and the new earth.'
  zh: 我特别想关注三个图像：真福直观、城市，以及新天新地。
- start: 1996.946
  end: 1999.687
  speaker: barron
  en: Let us consider first the beatific vision.
  zh: 让我们首先考虑真福直观。
- start: 2002.228
  end: 2007.69
  speaker: barron
  en: One of the most beautiful symbols of this can be found in the great Cathedral of Notre Dame.
  zh: 这方面最美的象征之一可以在巴黎圣母院大教堂中找到。
- start: 2011.632
  end: 2024.897
  speaker: barron
  en: St. Thomas Aquinas, who would have known this building when he was a professor of theology in Paris, said that the human spirit is structured in such a way that it pushes beyond itself toward the good, the true, and the beautiful.
  zh: 圣托马斯·阿奎那在巴黎担任神学教授时就熟悉这座建筑，他说人的灵是这样构造的，它推动自己超越自身，朝向善、真和美。
- start: 2025.339
  end: 2035.264
  speaker: barron
  en: The mind seeks the truth, and it finds it to some degree in this world, but it's never enough because the mind seeks absolute truth.
  zh: 心智寻求真理，在这个世界上某种程度上能找到真理，但这永远不够，因为心智寻求绝对真理。
- start: 2035.724
  end: 2043.068
  speaker: barron
  en: The will seeks the good, and it finds it to some degree within this world, but it’s never enough, finally, to satisfy the will.
  zh: 意志寻求善，在这个世界上某种程度上能找到善，但最终这永远不够，无法满足意志。
- start: 2043.628
  end: 2053.833
  speaker: barron
  en: The soul seeks the beautiful, and to a limited degree, it finds it; it achieves it in this world, but it’s ordered toward the beautiful itself.
  zh: 灵魂寻求美，在有限程度上能找到美；在这个世界上能实现美，但它是朝向美本身而被安排的。
- start: 2054.892
  end: 2058.193
  speaker: barron
  en: There’s a kind of holy longing in us.
  zh: 我们里面有一种圣洁的渴望。
- start: 2058.354
  end: 2070.779
  speaker: barron
  en: There’s an aching, a restlessnes, that pushes us beyond anything in this world toward a transcendent truth, a transcendent goodness, a transcendent beauty.
  zh: 有一种痛苦，一种不安，推动我们超越这个世界的一切，朝向超越的真理、超越的善、超越的美。
- start: 2075.922
  end: 2094.005
  speaker: barron
  en: This is why, as C.S. Lewis so clearly saw, the most exquisite experiences in life— aesthetic pleasure, sexual intimacy, deep friendship—are always accompanied by a certain aching sadness, a sense that there must still be something more.
  zh: 这就是为什么，正如路易斯如此清晰地看到的，生命中最美妙的体验——审美愉悦、性亲密、深厚友谊——总是伴随着某种痛苦的悲伤，一种一定还有更多的感觉。
- start: 2095.727
  end: 2103.153
  speaker: barron
  en: Heaven is what corresponds to that desire beyond desire and to that searching beyond searching.
  zh: 天堂就是对应于那超越欲望的欲望，对应于那超越寻求的寻求。
- start: 2104.615
  end: 2114.104
  speaker: barron
  en: The mind and the will, despite or because of all their achievements here below, still want definitively to see.
  zh: 心智和意志，尽管或正因为它们在此世的所有成就，仍然想要决定性地看见。
- start: 2118.427
  end: 2133.013
  speaker: barron
  en: I first laid eyes on the North Rose window at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris on June 12, 1989. When I saw the rose window, I stood mesmerized for 20 minutes by its sheer beauty.
  zh: 1989年6月12日，我第一次看到巴黎圣母院的北玫瑰窗。当我看到玫瑰窗时，我被它纯粹的美丽迷住了，站在那里20分钟。
- start: 2133.714
  end: 2150.187
  speaker: barron
  en: Then, every single day that I was in Paris until I returned home for Christmas, I went to that spot and stared at the great wheel of the North Rose window with its myriad parts and harmonious interconnection.
  zh: 然后，在我在巴黎的每一天，直到圣诞节回家，我都会去那个地方，凝视北玫瑰窗那巨大的轮盘，观察它无数的部分和谐相连。
- start: 2150.187
  end: 2164.312
  speaker: barron
  en: With the sunlight shining through it, it certainly qualifies as a beautiful thing, but its beauty is in service of a higher good, for it’s meant to be a foretaste of the beauty of the beatific vision.
  zh: 阳光透过它照射时，它确实称得上是一件美丽的事物，但它的美是为了服务于更高的善，因为它意在预示真福直观的美。
- start: 2165.512
  end: 2170.374
  speaker: barron
  en: One of the clues to this transcendent purpose is in the window's numeric symbolism.
  zh: 这个超越目的的线索之一在于窗户的数字象征。
- start: 2171.229
  end: 2175.431
  speaker: barron
  en: Around the central figures of Christ and His Mother are eight small circles.
  zh: 在基督和他母亲的中心人物周围有八个小圆圈。
- start: 2176.072
  end: 2181.995
  speaker: barron
  en: Then, on the next major row, we find 16 circular images, medallions in French.
  zh: 然后，在下一个主要行列中，我们发现16个圆形图像，用法语称为圆形章。
- start: 2183.076
  end: 2202.163
  speaker: barron
  en: On the next row, twice 16, which is 32 images, and then finally another row of 32. If we add 32, 32, 16, and 8, we arrive at 88. In a word, the entire window is an artistic meditation on the number eight.
  zh: 在下一行，是16的两倍，即32个图像，然后最后一行又是32个。如果我们把32、32、16和8加起来，得到88。简而言之，整个窗户是对数字八的艺术冥想。
- start: 2203.424
  end: 2213.711
  speaker: barron
  en: Then we recall that eight is a symbol of eternity since it stands immediately outside of seven, which evokes the seven days of the week or the completed cycle of time.
  zh: 然后我们回想起八是永恒的象征，因为它紧接在七之后，而七让人联想到一周七天或完整的时间周期。
- start: 2214.933
  end: 2219.976
  speaker: barron
  en: Another clue is found in the very complexity and inexhaustibility of its composition.
  zh: 另一个线索在于其构图的复杂性和无穷尽性。
- start: 2223.739
  end: 2226.901
  speaker: barron
  en: Why was I drawn for so many days to look at that rose?
  zh: 为什么我会连续多天被吸引去看那朵玫瑰？
- start: 2228.251
  end: 2230.692
  speaker: barron
  en: Probably because there was just so much to take in.
  zh: 可能是因为有太多东西需要领会。
- start: 2230.692
  end: 2235.233
  speaker: barron
  en: The vision of God is like that.
  zh: 对神的直观就是这样。
- start: 2238.514
  end: 2244.456
  speaker: barron
  en: Saint Bernard reminded us that the beatific vision is not something we take in all at once.
  zh: 圣伯尔纳提醒我们，真福直观不是我们一次就能完全领会的。
- start: 2244.636
  end: 2248.437
  speaker: barron
  en: Rather, the more we see, the more we want to see.
  zh: 相反，我们看得越多，就越想看更多。
- start: 2248.637
  end: 2256.139
  speaker: barron
  en: The more we know of God, the more we want to know; the more we explore, the hungrier we are to explore even more.
  zh: 我们对神了解得越多，就越想知道更多；我们探索得越多，就越渴望探索更多。
- start: 2256.798
  end: 2265.462
  speaker: barron
  en: Thomas Aquinas said that the saints in heaven realized to their delight just how incomprehensible God is.
  zh: 托马斯·阿奎那说，天堂中的圣徒欣喜地意识到神是多么地不可测度。
- start: 2293.942
  end: 2304.584
  speaker: barron
  en: I realize that all this talk about knowing and seeing can give the impression that the life of heaven is a passive and lonely business, a bit like taking a solitary stroll through an art gallery.
  zh: 我意识到所有这些关于认识和看见的谈论可能会给人一种印象，好像天堂的生活是一种被动和孤独的事，有点像独自在美术馆里漫步。
- start: 2304.684
  end: 2310.005
  speaker: barron
  en: We wonder, wouldn’t even the most compelling and beautiful vision in time become tiresome?
  zh: 我们会想，即使是最引人入胜和美丽的景象，随着时间推移不也会变得令人厌倦吗？
- start: 2310.219
  end: 2317.521
  speaker: barron
  en: That’s why we have to supplement this idea of the beatific vision with that of the City of the Heavenly Jerusalem.
  zh: 这就是为什么我们必须用天上耶路撒冷城的概念来补充真福直观的理念。
- start: 2323.582
  end: 2329.783
  speaker: barron
  en: There’s nothing passive or individualistic about a city bustling with energy, life, and creativity.
  zh: 一个充满活力、生命和创造力的城市没有任何被动或个人主义的特征。
- start: 2331.604
  end: 2338.486
  speaker: barron
  en: Cities are places where communal activities and entertainments of all varieties are unceasing.
  zh: 城市是各种各样的群体活动和娱乐不断进行的地方。
- start: 2338.486
  end: 2341.319
  speaker: barron
  en: Life in the Heavenly Jerusalem is something like that.
  zh: 天上耶路撒冷的生活就是这样的。
- start: 2341.319
  end: 2353.81
  speaker: barron
  en: In union with the angels and the saints, our minds, wills, and energies fully alive and properly focused, we will live in thrilling interdependent communion with one another.
  zh: 与天使和圣徒联合，我们的心智、意志和能量完全活跃并适当聚焦，我们将在令人兴奋的相互依存的共融中生活。
- start: 2356.793
  end: 2365.34
  speaker: barron
  en: Here below, because of our sins and the natural conflicts of finite existence, communion is so rare, so hard to achieve.
  zh: 在此世，由于我们的罪和有限存在的自然冲突，共融如此罕见，如此难以实现。
- start: 2367.335
  end: 2384.386
  speaker: barron
  en: But in the city on high, when we’ve been raised to a new pitch of ontological perfection, and when the self-absorption of sin has been burned away, we will rejoice in one another’s accomplishments and delight in the harmony that we can achieve together.
  zh: 但在那高处的城市里，当我们被提升到存在论的新完美境界，当自我中心的罪被焚烧殆尽时，我们将为彼此的成就欢欣，为我们能一起达到的和谐而喜悦。
- start: 2399.514
  end: 2404.736
  speaker: barron
  en: The final image I’d like to consider is that of the new heavens and the new earth.
  zh: 我想考虑的最后一个图像是新天新地。
- start: 2406.337
  end: 2415.821
  speaker: barron
  en: Many Christians are more Platonist than biblical in the measure that they see the goal of the spiritual life as getting out of this world and going to heaven.
  zh: 许多基督徒在看待属灵生活的目标时，更像柏拉图主义者而不是合乎圣经的，他们认为目标是脱离这个世界去天堂。
- start: 2417.381
  end: 2426.125
  speaker: barron
  en: Or to put it more precisely, to facilitate the soul’s departure from the body and its subsequent journey to a purely immaterial realm.
  zh: 或者更准确地说，是为了促进灵魂离开身体，随后前往一个纯粹非物质的境界。
- start: 2427.705
  end: 2431.106
  speaker: barron
  en: But this is just not what Christian hope is really about.
  zh: 但这根本不是基督徒盼望的真正含义。
- start: 2434.527
  end: 2449.152
  speaker: barron
  en: 'The Apostles'' Creed concludes with the statement: We believe in the resurrection of the body and life everlasting, and the Nicene Creed closes with, We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.'
  zh: 使徒信经以这样的陈述结束：我们信身体复活和永生，而尼西亚信经以这样结束：我们望死人复活和来世的生命。
- start: 2450.893
  end: 2459.807
  speaker: barron
  en: Neither declaration of Christian faith speaks of the conviction that the soul will escape from the body and live forever in a disincarnate state.
  zh: 这两个基督信仰的宣告都没有谈到灵魂将逃离身体并在非肉身状态下永远生存的信念。
- start: 2461.429
  end: 2470.056
  speaker: barron
  en: Rather, both speak of resurrection, which involves not the leaving behind of the body but the transfiguration of the body.
  zh: 相反，两者都谈到复活，这不是抛弃身体，而是身体的改变。
- start: 2472.439
  end: 2477.163
  speaker: barron
  en: The risen Jesus appeared very much in an embodied state to His disciples.
  zh: 复活的耶稣以一个有形体的状态向他的门徒显现。
- start: 2477.784
  end: 2481.327
  speaker: barron
  en: He said, Touch me and see that I have flesh and bones.
  zh: 他说，摸我看看，我有骨有肉。
- start: 2484.741
  end: 2489.462
  speaker: barron
  en: The God revealed in the Bible made the physical universe and took infinite delight in it.
  zh: 在圣经中启示的神创造了物质宇宙，并在其中无限喜悦。
- start: 2489.462
  end: 2495.784
  speaker: barron
  en: Genesis reminds us that He found it all very good.
  zh: 创世记提醒我们，他看一切都甚好。
- start: 2499.206
  end: 2508.608
  speaker: barron
  en: Presumably, the biblical God who made the good earth has no intention of giving up on it, but rather wants to save it and redeem it.
  zh: 可以推测，创造美好大地的圣经中的神并无意放弃它，而是要拯救和救赎它。
- start: 2509.609
  end: 2519.298
  speaker: barron
  en: 'This is precisely what the language of the resurrection of the body is all about: not an escape from matter, but a renewal of it.'
  zh: 这正是身体复活的语言所表达的：不是逃离物质，而是更新物质。
- start: 2523.883
  end: 2526.304
  speaker: barron
  en: What will the resurrected body be like?
  zh: 复活的身体会是什么样子？
- start: 2526.985
  end: 2550.216
  speaker: barron
  en: Drawing inspiration from the gospel descriptions of the risen Christ, Thomas Aquinas speaks of its subtlety, by which he means its time- and space-transcending capacity; of its radiance, by which he means its luminous brilliance; and of its agility, by which he means its suppleness and athleticism.
  zh: 托马斯·阿奎那从福音书对复活基督的描述中获得灵感，谈到其精妙性，指其超越时空的能力；其光辉性，指其光明的辉煌；以及其敏捷性，指其柔韧和运动能力。
- start: 2553.159
  end: 2561.405
  speaker: barron
  en: He imagines the glorified body as a body fully itself, but exercising its power at a qualitatively higher degree of perfection.
  zh: 他想象荣耀的身体是完全的身体本身，但在质的层面上以更高的完美程度发挥其能力。
- start: 2564.507
  end: 2572.593
  speaker: barron
  en: John Polkinghorne, a theologian and particle physicist, has offered some fascinating speculations regarding the resurrected body.
  zh: 约翰·波金霍恩，一位神学家和粒子物理学家，对复活的身体提出了一些引人入胜的推测。
- start: 2574.588
  end: 2587.671
  speaker: barron
  en: He speculates that at death, that form is remembered by God, preserved in the divine mind, and then reconstituted with a new and immortalized materiality.
  zh: 他推测，在死亡时，那个形式被神记住，保存在神的心智中，然后以新的、不朽的物质性重新构建。
- start: 2589.892
  end: 2605.06
  speaker: barron
  en: You might imagine the way in which the form of a picture could be preserved in a computer and then downloaded in a number of new instantiations—bigger and more impressive than the originals—because it would be informed by the same pattern.
  zh: 你可以想象一幅图片的形式如何被保存在计算机中，然后以多个新的实例下载——比原件更大更令人印象深刻——因为它们都遵循同样的模式。
- start: 2605.141
  end: 2614.025
  speaker: barron
  en: This new body would be in continuity with the old one, but yet be something altogether new, something more splendid and complete.
  zh: 这个新身体将与旧的保持连续性，但却是完全新的事物，更加辉煌和完整。
- start: 2618.648
  end: 2624.851
  speaker: barron
  en: Could this same manner of thinking help us to conceive what a new heavens and a new earth might be?
  zh: 这种思维方式能否帮助我们构想新天新地会是什么样子？
- start: 2626.052
  end: 2634.021
  speaker: barron
  en: It’s been said that the best way to prepare ourselves for life in the world to come is to cultivate our capacity for surprise.
  zh: 有人说，为来世的生命做准备的最好方式是培养我们对惊奇的能力。
- start: 2641.025
  end: 2642.045
  speaker: barron
  en: We’re doing the best we can.
  zh: 我们正在尽最大努力。
- start: 2642.045
  end: 2644.267
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, we try to find imagery for heaven.
  zh: 我的意思是，我们试图为天堂找到形象。
- start: 2644.267
  end: 2648.609
  speaker: barron
  en: Eye has not seen, ear has not heard, but God has prepared for those who love Him, the Bible says.
  zh: 圣经说，眼睛未曾看见，耳朵未曾听见，神却为爱他的人预备了。
- start: 2648.769
  end: 2652.671
  speaker: barron
  en: It’s like a different dimensional system.
  zh: 这就像一个不同的维度系统。
- start: 2652.671
  end: 2657.194
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, how do you begin to explain what’s at a higher pitch when you’re in this system?
  zh: 我的意思是，当你在这个系统中时，你如何开始解释更高层次的事物？
- start: 2657.314
  end: 2660.328
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of a square or a triangle.
  zh: 想想正方形或三角形。
- start: 2660.328
  end: 2666.93
  speaker: barron
  en: They’re in two dimensions, but now you lift them up into a third dimension and you make the square into a cube and the triangle becomes a pyramid.
  zh: 它们是二维的，但现在你把它们提升到三维，正方形变成立方体，三角形变成金字塔。
- start: 2666.93
  end: 2669.991
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, see, in the two-dimensional world, you can’t even imagine, What do you mean?
  zh: 你看，在二维世界里，你甚至无法想象，这是什么意思？
- start: 2669.991
  end: 2671.652
  speaker: barron
  en: What are you talking about, a cube?
  zh: 你说的立方体是什么意思？
- start: 2671.652
  end: 2673.552
  speaker: barron
  en: Or what do you mean, a pyramid?
  zh: 或者你说的金字塔是什么意思？
- start: 2673.812
  end: 2675.893
  speaker: barron
  en: You can’t imagine it within this framework.
  zh: 在这个框架内你无法想象它。
- start: 2675.893
  end: 2686.916
  speaker: barron
  en: But see, in that example, what’s cool about it is you retain the squareness of the square, you retain the triangularity of the triangle, but you’ve now raised them up to a higher pitch.
  zh: 但是你看，在这个例子中，有趣的是你保留了正方形的方形特性，保留了三角形的三角特性，但你现在把它们提升到了更高的层次。
- start: 2687.031
  end: 2690.155
  speaker: barron
  en: That’s what Paul called a resurrected body.
  zh: 这就是保罗所说的复活的身体。
- start: 2690.536
  end: 2700.048
  speaker: barron
  en: So we have these lowly bodies here below; we don’t so much get rid of them as they’re now brought up to a higher pitch of expressiveness and of life.
  zh: 所以我们在此世有这些卑微的身体；我们不是要摆脱它们，而是要把它们提升到更高的表达和生命层次。
- start: 2700.149
  end: 2701.11
  speaker: barron
  en: That’s heaven.
  zh: 这就是天堂。
- start: 2734.585
  end: 2745.934
  speaker: barron
  en: Catholicism is a way of seeing; Catholicism is a manner of life.
  zh: 公教是一种看待事物的方式；公教是一种生活方式。
- start: 2745.934
  end: 2762.906
  speaker: barron
  en: Catholicism has a distinctive texture, feel, and resonance.
  zh: 公教有其独特的质地、感觉和共鸣。
- start: 2769.409
  end: 2777.131
  speaker: barron
  en: It all begins with, revolves around, and leads to Jesus Christ, the Word made flesh.
  zh: 这一切始于、围绕着、并引向耶稣基督，那成为肉身的道。
