- start: 0.202
  end: 1.022
  speaker: barron
  en: Thank you.
  zh: 谢谢。
- start: 2.064
  end: 2.584
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, good morning.
  zh: 早上好。
- start: 2.584
  end: 5.527
  speaker: barron
  en: Thank you, Father, and good morning to everybody.
  zh: 谢谢神父，大家早上好。
- start: 5.527
  end: 7.6690000000000005
  speaker: barron
  en: I am delighted to be here.
  zh: 我很高兴能来到这里。
- start: 7.6690000000000005
  end: 9.931000000000001
  speaker: barron
  en: I was here, gosh, many, many years ago.
  zh: 天啊，我上一次来这里已经是很多很多年前的事了。
- start: 9.931000000000001
  end: 15.095
  speaker: barron
  en: I think I was still a professor at Mundelein and probably gave a morning like this, like a morning of reflection.
  zh: 我记得那时我还是蒙德莱恩的教授，可能也是像这样做了一次晨间反思。
- start: 15.095
  end: 16.596
  speaker: barron
  en: That was a long time ago.
  zh: 那已经是很久以前的事了。
- start: 16.697
  end: 21.741
  speaker: barron
  en: It's my first official visit here as Bishop of Winona-Rochester, so I'm delighted.
  zh: 这是我作为威诺纳-罗切斯特主教的第一次正式访问，所以我感到非常高兴。
- start: 21.921
  end: 30.096
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I was out with the mighty Winona-Rochester contingent last night at Buca di Beppo, where we all got carded.
  zh: 昨晚我和威诺纳-罗切斯特的强大团队一起去了布卡迪贝波餐厅，我们都被要求出示证件。
- start: 30.096
  end: 35.099
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I must say, not me; they accepted me, but everybody else.
  zh: 我必须说，除了我之外，他们都被查了证件，只有我直接被放行了。
- start: 35.219
  end: 38.922
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'I told the guys this story: this is about six or seven years ago in California.'
  zh: 我给大家讲了这个故事：这是大约六七年前在加利福尼亚发生的事。
- start: 38.922
  end: 46.247
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I was at a fundraiser, and you know, mingling around, there's this older gentleman, and I said, And what did you do, sir?
  zh: 我在一个筹款活动上，你知道，在人群中走动，遇到一位年长的先生，我问他：「先生，您是做什么的？」
- start: 46.247
  end: 50.109
  speaker: barron
  en: And he said, Well, I'm retired now, but I founded a restaurant chain.
  zh: 他说：「嗯，我现在已经退休了，但我创立了一个连锁餐厅。」
- start: 50.109
  end: 50.749
  speaker: barron
  en: I said, Oh really?
  zh: 我说：「哦，是吗？」
- start: 50.749
  end: 51.61
  speaker: barron
  en: Which chain?
  zh: 「是哪个连锁店？」
- start: 51.61
  end: 54.231
  speaker: barron
  en: And he said, You ever hear of Buca di Beppo?
  zh: 他说：「你听说过布卡迪贝波吗？」
- start: 54.372
  end: 56.353
  speaker: barron
  en: I said, Yeah, I love Buca di Beppo!
  zh: 我说：「当然，我很喜欢布卡迪贝波！」
- start: 56.353
  end: 57.914
  speaker: barron
  en: And he said, I'm Beppo!
  zh: 他说：「我就是贝波！」
- start: 60.38
  end: 63.703
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So if we had trouble last night, we could have asked you; I could have thrown that weight around.
  zh: 所以如果我们昨晚遇到麻烦，我们本可以找你帮忙，我本可以搬出这个关系。
- start: 63.703
  end: 77.012
  speaker: barron
  en: But I know, Bethel, listen, I want to talk to you really about the priesthood ultimately, but I'm going to do it by way of the Bible and certain key biblical figures.
  zh: 但是你们知道，伯特利的朋友们，听着，我最终想和你们谈谈祭司职分，不过我会通过圣经和一些重要的圣经人物来讲解。
- start: 77.573
  end: 82.096
  speaker: barron
  en: I've had the privilege the last several years now of getting more immersed in the Bible.
  zh: 在过去几年里，我有幸能更深入地研读圣经。
- start: 82.337
  end: 88.768
  speaker: barron
  en: I got into the religious enterprise really through philosophy, through Aquinas, and you know, systematic theology.
  zh: 我是通过哲学，通过阿奎那，你知道，通过系统神学进入宗教领域的。
- start: 88.768
  end: 93.453
  speaker: barron
  en: I've always loved the sort of high speculative philosophical theology.
  zh: 我一直都喜欢那种高深的思辨性哲学神学。
- start: 93.714
  end: 102.084
  speaker: barron
  en: But starting now, this is maybe ten years ago or more, Abrazos Press approached me and asked me to write one of their commentary books.
  zh: 但是从现在算起，大约十年或更久之前，阿布拉索斯出版社找到我，请我为他们写一本注释书。
- start: 102.084
  end: 106.893
  speaker: barron
  en: They're doing a series of theologians commenting on the biblical text.
  zh: 他们正在做一系列神学家对圣经文本的注释。
- start: 106.893
  end: 117.995
  speaker: barron
  en: So they didn't want so much the historical-critical technical study of the Bible; there's plenty of that, obviously, but they wanted a more theological and, I would say, patristic approach to the Bible.
  zh: 他们并不太需要那种历史批判式的技术性圣经研究，这种研究显然已经很多了，他们想要的是更多神学性的，我要说是更接近教父传统的圣经解读方式。
- start: 118.035
  end: 126.857
  speaker: barron
  en: 'So I was invited to comment on 2 Samuel, and I''ve always said this: I''ve written a number of books, but that was the book I had the most fun writing.'
  zh: 所以我受邀为撒母耳记下作注释，我一直这么说：我写过很多书，但那是我写得最开心的一本。
- start: 126.857
  end: 130.938
  speaker: barron
  en: I was a faculty member, and then even as rector, I finished it.
  zh: 我当时是教职员，后来即使成为校长，我也完成了这本书。
- start: 131.124
  end: 136.769
  speaker: barron
  en: But I just loved that immersion in the Bible and in that world of King David.
  zh: 我真的很喜欢那种沉浸在圣经和大卫王的世界中的感觉。
- start: 136.769
  end: 139.771
  speaker: barron
  en: Those texts of 1 and 2 Samuel are so powerful.
  zh: 撒母耳记上下的经文非常有力量。
- start: 140.312
  end: 147.498
  speaker: barron
  en: In the wake of that, my Word on Fire ministry took upon this task of bringing out the Word on Fire Bible.
  zh: 在那之后，我的「火中之言」事工承担起了出版「火中之言圣经」的任务。
- start: 147.498
  end: 154.424
  speaker: barron
  en: I don't know if you know about that, but I must say it's a really beautiful series of texts put together by a terrific team.
  zh: 我不知道你们是否了解这个项目，但我必须说这是由一个出色的团队制作的非常精美的系列作品。
- start: 154.424
  end: 159.328
  speaker: barron
  en: We wanted the book to be beautiful, and it is, to look at, to hold in your hand.
  zh: 我们希望这本书很美，事实上它确实很美，无论是看还是拿在手中。
- start: 159.522
  end: 173.527
  speaker: barron
  en: But it's the text of the Scripture accompanied by great works of art and commentary upon those, but then also lots of commentary from the Fathers, from the Popes, from the theologians.
  zh: 这不仅包含圣经经文，还配有伟大的艺术作品和对这些作品的评论，同时还有来自教父、教宗和神学家们的大量注释。
- start: 173.567
  end: 181.289
  speaker: barron
  en: And then, since the Word on Fire Bible, they asked me to write some commentaries, so I started working on this, and then COVID hit.
  zh: 在「火中之言圣经」之后，他们请我写一些注释，所以我开始着手这项工作，然后新冠疫情来了。
- start: 181.289
  end: 185.971
  speaker: barron
  en: And so suddenly, I had more time; I wasn't flying to places and going to meetings.
  zh: 突然间，我有了更多时间，不用到处飞，也不用参加会议。
- start: 186.463
  end: 193.026
  speaker: barron
  en: I began commenting a lot more, and it turned into more of a full-blown commentary on the Old Testament.
  zh: 我开始写更多的注释，这最终发展成了一部完整的旧约注释。
- start: 193.026
  end: 196.287
  speaker: barron
  en: So I brought that out a couple of years ago as The Great Story of Israel.
  zh: 所以几年前我出版了《以色列的伟大故事》。
- start: 196.287
  end: 204.151
  speaker: barron
  en: 'It was the Pentateuch and the historical books, and now I''m about halfway through the rest of it: the prophets and the wisdom literature.'
  zh: 那包括了摩西五经和历史书，现在我正在写其余部分的一半：先知书和智慧书。
- start: 204.831
  end: 216.176
  speaker: barron
  en: Now that I'm Bishop of a diocese, the work is a little slower, but I've continued this immersion in the Bible, and I must say it's just been a great joy for me.
  zh: 现在我是教区主教了，工作进度慢了一些，但我仍在继续深入研读圣经，我必须说这给我带来了极大的喜乐。
- start: 217.489
  end: 219.89
  speaker: barron
  en: Can I just make the statement first?
  zh: 我能先说一个观点吗？
- start: 219.89
  end: 228.795
  speaker: barron
  en: And in a way, my two books on the Bible are my attempt to justify this claim, but I'm just going to say it, and I hope it's reflected in the presentations I give.
  zh: 从某种意义上说，我的两本关于圣经的书都是在试图证明这个论点，但我现在就要说出来，我希望这能在我的演讲中得到体现。
- start: 229.496
  end: 242.123
  speaker: barron
  en: I think the master theme of the Bible—and I'm making bold to say this—the master theme of the Bible is right praise, orthodoxy, if you want, doxa.
  zh: 我认为圣经的主旨——我大胆地说——圣经的主旨是正确的赞美，正统信仰，如果你愿意的话，就是荣耀。
- start: 242.123
  end: 245.044
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, in that sense of praise, right praise.
  zh: 现在，是在赞美的意义上，正确的赞美。
- start: 245.316
  end: 249.558
  speaker: barron
  en: So before it means right belief, it means right praise.
  zh: 所以在它表示正确信仰之前，它首先表示正确的赞美。
- start: 250.018
  end: 263.924
  speaker: barron
  en: I think the master theme of the Bible, Genesis through Revelation, is ordering one's life appropriately toward God so that God becomes exclusively the object of your praise.
  zh: 我认为圣经的主旨，从创世记到启示录，就是恰当地安排自己的生命朝向神，使神成为你唯一赞美的对象。
- start: 264.904
  end: 273.628
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Now, here''s the corollary principle: I think, according to the Bible, you become what you worship.'
  zh: 现在，这里有一个相关的原则：我认为，根据圣经，你会变成你所敬拜的样式。
- start: 274.363
  end: 281.544
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Now think of that word for a minute: worship, from an older English word, worth-ship.'
  zh: 现在想一想这个词：敬拜，来自古英语「worth-ship」，意为价值。
- start: 281.544
  end: 283.965
  speaker: barron
  en: What's of highest value to you?
  zh: 什么对你最有价值？
- start: 285.505
  end: 287.546
  speaker: barron
  en: Everyone's got one, inescapably.
  zh: 每个人都必然有一个答案。
- start: 287.546
  end: 293.747
  speaker: barron
  en: You can't be on the sidelines of that question; everyone worships something.
  zh: 你不能对这个问题置身事外，每个人都在敬拜某样东西。
- start: 294.467
  end: 300.93
  speaker: barron
  en: That's why in the Bible, it's not a question of belief versus non-belief; that's a modern hang-up.
  zh: 这就是为什么在圣经中，问题不在于信与不信，那是现代人的执着。
- start: 300.93
  end: 308.954
  speaker: barron
  en: The Bible is much more correct in saying the question is not belief or non-belief; it's correct belief or idolatrous belief.
  zh: 圣经更正确地指出，问题不在于信或不信，而在于正确的信仰还是拜偶像的信仰。
- start: 310.195
  end: 316.598
  speaker: barron
  en: Do you worship a right, namely the Creator, or do you worship something other than the Creator?
  zh: 你是敬拜那位正确的对象，也就是创造主，还是敬拜除创造主以外的其他事物？
- start: 316.598
  end: 318.339
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the question.
  zh: 这才是问题所在。
- start: 318.68
  end: 324.422
  speaker: barron
  en: It's not even to be or not to be; the question is, what do you worship?
  zh: 甚至不是存在还是不存在的问题，而是你敬拜什么的问题。
- start: 325.303
  end: 335.756
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Paul Tillich, the Protestant theologian, long ago said that all you need to know about a person you can discern by asking one question: what do you worship?'
  zh: 新教神学家保罗·田立克很久以前就说过，你只需要问一个问题就能了解一个人：你敬拜什么？
- start: 335.756
  end: 338.198
  speaker: barron
  en: That's dead right, it seems to me.
  zh: 在我看来，这完全正确。
- start: 338.198
  end: 341.881
  speaker: barron
  en: In other words, what's of highest value to you?
  zh: 换句话说，什么对你最有价值？
- start: 343.282
  end: 346.144
  speaker: barron
  en: Your life will be organized around that.
  zh: 你的生命将围绕着它而组织。
- start: 348.246
  end: 350.648
  speaker: barron
  en: You will become what you worship.
  zh: 你会变成你所敬拜的样式。
- start: 350.648
  end: 356.333
  speaker: barron
  en: 'So turn that principle around: if you meet somebody and you say, Okay, this is a money man...'
  zh: 所以让我们反过来看这个原则：如果你遇到某人，你说，好吧，这是个金钱至上的人……
- start: 356.874
  end: 357.414
  speaker: barron
  en: What do you know?
  zh: 你知道什么？
- start: 357.414
  end: 362.124
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, he worships money; money is the highest value to him.
  zh: 好吧，他敬拜金钱，金钱对他来说是最高的价值。
- start: 362.165
  end: 364.205
  speaker: barron
  en: This guy's a playboy.
  zh: 这个人是个花花公子。
- start: 364.526
  end: 365.687
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, what do you know about him?
  zh: 那么，你对他了解什么？
- start: 365.687
  end: 367.988
  speaker: barron
  en: He worships pleasure.
  zh: 他敬拜享乐。
- start: 369.309
  end: 372.45
  speaker: barron
  en: Now let's press it, and this is in the biblical spirit.
  zh: 现在让我们进一步探讨，这是合乎圣经精神的。
- start: 372.991
  end: 374.952
  speaker: barron
  en: That guy, he's a family man.
  zh: 那个人，他是个顾家的人。
- start: 375.452
  end: 376.873
  speaker: barron
  en: You say, Well, that's great, isn't it?
  zh: 你说，嗯，那很好，不是吗？
- start: 376.873
  end: 382.476
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, families are great, but you don't worship them, even your own.
  zh: 是的，家庭很好，但你不能敬拜家庭，即使是你自己的家庭。
- start: 383.206
  end: 386.687
  speaker: barron
  en: See, now revisit the Abraham-Isaac story with renewed insight.
  zh: 看，现在用新的视角重新审视亚伯拉罕和以撒的故事。
- start: 386.687
  end: 392.509
  speaker: barron
  en: This is not God playing games and not emotional manipulation; it's, remember, a test.
  zh: 这不是神在玩游戏，也不是情感操纵，记住，这是一个考验。
- start: 392.509
  end: 404.852
  speaker: barron
  en: 'The Bible says, and it''s right at the heart of the Scripture, it seems to me: Abraham, what do you love more, your family or me?'
  zh: 圣经说，在我看来这正是圣经的核心：亚伯拉罕，你更爱什么，是你的家人还是我？
- start: 404.852
  end: 414.664
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, I know the push doesn't have to come to shove every minute, but if it did, what's the highest value to you?
  zh: 现在，我知道不是每时每刻都要面临这样的抉择，但如果真的要选择，什么对你最有价值？
- start: 415.385
  end: 417.046
  speaker: barron
  en: What do you worship?
  zh: 你敬拜什么？
- start: 417.727
  end: 418.848
  speaker: barron
  en: How about the Lord Jesus?
  zh: 主耶稣呢？
- start: 418.848
  end: 419.649
  speaker: barron
  en: Hey, Lord!
  zh: 主啊！
- start: 419.649
  end: 421.79
  speaker: barron
  en: Yes, yes, I'm going to follow you.
  zh: 是的，是的，我要跟随你。
- start: 422.171
  end: 425.533
  speaker: barron
  en: Yes, but you know, please let me first bury my father.
  zh: 是的，但是你知道，请让我先去埋葬我的父亲。
- start: 425.734
  end: 429.577
  speaker: barron
  en: You say, Well, that's the untrumpable excuse.
  zh: 你说，嗯，这是无可辩驳的理由。
- start: 429.577
  end: 431.779
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, of course, go bury your father.
  zh: 好吧，当然，去埋葬你的父亲吧。
- start: 432.08
  end: 433.3
  speaker: barron
  en: What does the Lord say?
  zh: 主是怎么说的？
- start: 433.401
  end: 434.982
  speaker: barron
  en: Let the dead bury their dead.
  zh: 让死人埋葬他们的死人。
- start: 436.263
  end: 437.484
  speaker: barron
  en: He's against the family?
  zh: 他反对家庭吗？
- start: 437.484
  end: 437.825
  speaker: barron
  en: No, no, no.
  zh: 不，不，不。
- start: 437.825
  end: 438.445
  speaker: barron
  en: What?
  zh: 什么？
- start: 438.946
  end: 440.961
  speaker: barron
  en: What do you worship?
  zh: 你敬拜什么？
- start: 440.961
  end: 443.362
  speaker: barron
  en: What's of highest value to you?
  zh: 什么对你最有价值？
- start: 443.622
  end: 446.543
  speaker: barron
  en: Everything else will follow from that.
  zh: 其他一切都源于此。
- start: 446.543
  end: 449.124
  speaker: barron
  en: Do you worship God or something else?
  zh: 你是敬拜神还是其他东西？
- start: 449.804
  end: 456.286
  speaker: barron
  en: As Augustine stated, the basic human problem is substituting a creature for the Creator.
  zh: 正如奥古斯丁所说，人类的基本问题是用受造物取代造物主。
- start: 456.466
  end: 465.488
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Same principle: treating a creature—wealth, pleasure, power, honor, family, country, whatever it is—treating a creature as the Creator.'
  zh: 同样的原则：把受造物——财富、享乐、权力、荣誉、家庭、国家，无论是什么——当作造物主来对待。
- start: 465.869
  end: 471.52
  speaker: barron
  en: That's called idolatry in the Bible, and it's always the fundamental problem.
  zh: 这在圣经中被称为拜偶像，这始终是最根本的问题。
- start: 471.721
  end: 480.766
  speaker: barron
  en: Show me an exception in the Bible where Israel goes wrong, and the fundamental problem is not that they were running after false gods.
  zh: 在圣经中找出一个以色列犯错的例外，其根本问题不是追随假神的。
- start: 481.266
  end: 483.288
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the way the Bible always reads it.
  zh: 圣经总是这样解读的。
- start: 483.288
  end: 485.369
  speaker: barron
  en: And see, we tend to say, Oh, that's kind of extraneous.
  zh: 你看，我们往往会说，哦，那是无关紧要的。
- start: 485.369
  end: 492.253
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, they had this whole hang-up about worshiping false gods, and the real problem was they were unjust to the poor, and so on.
  zh: 是的，他们对敬拜假神这件事很执着，而真正的问题是他们对穷人不公正，等等。
- start: 492.253
  end: 498.216
  speaker: barron
  en: No, no, the injustice to the poor follows from running after false gods.
  zh: 不，不，对穷人的不公正是追随假神的结果。
- start: 499.983
  end: 507.266
  speaker: barron
  en: So I'm going to read the whole Bible under that rubric, and I want to look at four figures today.
  zh: 所以我要在这个标准下解读整本圣经，今天我想看四个人物。
- start: 507.706
  end: 525.365
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Oh, before I forget, you know, for the session this afternoon, I had suggested more of a dialogue Q&A, and I think my secretary threw out the idea of the Synod, and I'm happy to say a few things about the Synod, but I'm not that interested in it, so I don't want the whole session.
  zh: 哦，趁我还没忘记，你们知道，对于下午的会议，我建议多一些对话问答，我想我的秘书提出了主教会议的想法，我很乐意谈一谈主教会议，但我对此兴趣不大，所以我不想整个会议都谈这个。
- start: 525.365
  end: 527.286
  speaker: barron
  en: What I'm really interested in is hearing from you.
  zh: 我真正感兴趣的是听听你们的想法。
- start: 527.286
  end: 530.808
  speaker: barron
  en: So what I might do, depending on—do I have an hour this morning?—depending
  zh: 所以我可能会这样做，要看情况——我今天早上有一个小时吗？——这要看
- start: 530.808
  end: 536.572
  speaker: barron
  en: on time, maybe I'll get through three of these; I'll do number four in the afternoon, then open it up for a question.
  zh: 时间而定，也许我会讲完其中三个，第四个留到下午讲，然后开放问答。
- start: 536.572
  end: 540.935
  speaker: barron
  en: So just feel free to ask me whatever you want, not just about the summit.
  zh: 所以请随意问我任何问题，不仅仅是关于峰会的。
- start: 542.056
  end: 548.841
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, here's a last little propodutic point—that's for the propodudes, by the way.
  zh: 好的，这里有最后一个引导性的观点——顺便说一下，这是给那些喜欢引导性观点的人的。
- start: 549.101
  end: 559.724
  speaker: barron
  en: 'The propodutic point: I think one of the most important moves the Church made in the second century was the anti-Marcion stance.'
  zh: 这个引导性观点是：我认为大公教会在第二世纪做出的最重要决定之一就是反对马吉安的立场。
- start: 560.085
  end: 567.847
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, when Marcion was drawing the Church toward the repudiation of the Old Testament, that's a fallen God, false God.
  zh: 你知道，当马吉安试图引导教会否定旧约，说那是堕落的神，假神的时候。
- start: 567.847
  end: 570.307
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, it's kind of this Gnostic reading.
  zh: 你知道，这是一种诺斯底式的解读。
- start: 570.348
  end: 573.728
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Even a large part of the New Testament has to go, you know?
  zh: 你知道，甚至新约的大部分也要被否定？
- start: 574.329
  end: 582.432
  speaker: barron
  en: And when the Church, led by people like Irenaeus, said no to that, you think Marcionism is a dead agent?
  zh: 当教会在爱任纽等人的带领下对此说不时，你认为马吉安主义已经消亡了吗？
- start: 582.432
  end: 583.073
  speaker: barron
  en: Think again.
  zh: 再想想看。
- start: 583.073
  end: 585.355
  speaker: barron
  en: It's very much alive today.
  zh: 它在今天仍然非常活跃。
- start: 585.475
  end: 587.457
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Whenever someone goes, You know, the God of the Old Testament?
  zh: 每当有人说，你知道，旧约的神？
- start: 587.457
  end: 588.999
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I don't like that God.
  zh: 我不喜欢那个神。
- start: 588.999
  end: 597.828
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I like the God of the New Testament, the compassionate, loving God of Jesus, not that old grumpy lawgiver, that's Marcionism, live and well today.
  zh: 我喜欢新约的神，耶稣那位慈悲仁爱的神，而不是那个脾气暴躁的立法者，这就是今天仍然存在的马吉安主义。
- start: 597.869
  end: 606.742
  speaker: barron
  en: But the Church knew it's repugnant to Christianity because you can only understand Jesus properly in light of the Old Testament.
  zh: 但教会知道这与基督教格格不入，因为只有在旧约的光照下才能正确理解耶稣。
- start: 606.742
  end: 609.902
  speaker: barron
  en: It's not a recommendation; it's a requirement.
  zh: 这不是建议，而是要求。
- start: 610.362
  end: 617.404
  speaker: barron
  en: When you read Him, as many do, apart from the Old Testament, you will ipso facto misread Him.
  zh: 当你像许多人那样，脱离旧约来读祂时，你必然会误解祂。
- start: 617.604
  end: 624.606
  speaker: barron
  en: And now you get the Jesus of Oprah, the kind teacher and mystic guru and all that stuff.
  zh: 现在你得到的是奥普拉式的耶稣，那种仁慈的老师和神秘的导师之类的东西。
- start: 624.786
  end: 625.946
  speaker: barron
  en: No, no, no, no.
  zh: 不，不，不，不。
- start: 626.431
  end: 628.592
  speaker: barron
  en: You must read Him in light of Israel.
  zh: 你必须在以色列的光照下理解祂。
- start: 628.592
  end: 630.754
  speaker: barron
  en: See, this weird sign we have?
  zh: 看，我们有这个奇特的标志？
- start: 630.754
  end: 637.978
  speaker: barron
  en: We have to re-strangify that cross.
  zh: 我们必须重新认识到这十字架的奇特性。
- start: 637.978
  end: 645.403
  speaker: barron
  en: We're so accustomed to it, but that's a supremely weird thing to be putting up in front of us at a religious gathering.
  zh: 我们已经习以为常了，但在宗教聚会上把这个摆在我们面前，这是一件极其奇特的事情。
- start: 645.803
  end: 649.705
  speaker: barron
  en: You will not understand that at all apart from Israel.
  zh: 离开以色列，你根本无法理解它。
- start: 650.666
  end: 656.948
  speaker: barron
  en: Unless you read that as the culmination of this long story of Israel, you will misread it.
  zh: 除非你把它理解为以色列这个漫长故事的高潮，否则你会误解它。
- start: 657.849
  end: 662.87
  speaker: barron
  en: So that's just my little fervorino about the Old Testament because that's what I'm going to do.
  zh: 这就是我关于旧约的一点热心劝勉，因为这就是我要做的。
- start: 663.11
  end: 673.933
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm going to talk really about Jesus and therefore about the priesthood, but by way of these four Old Testament figures who are precursors to Christ.
  zh: 我真正要讲的是耶稣，因此也是关于祭司职分，但是要通过这四个作为基督先驱的旧约人物来讲。
- start: 674.373
  end: 676.674
  speaker: barron
  en: They're forerunners of Christ.
  zh: 他们是基督的先驱。
- start: 676.674
  end: 682.855
  speaker: barron
  en: But my whole strategy really is to talk about the priesthood for which you're all preparing.
  zh: 但我整个策略实际上是要谈论你们都在准备的祭司职分。
- start: 685.35
  end: 693.375
  speaker: barron
  en: The four figures I'm going to look at are Adam, Noah, Jacob, and Jonah.
  zh: 我要看的四个人物是亚当、挪亚、雅各和约拿。
- start: 694.616
  end: 696.898
  speaker: barron
  en: Adam, Noah, Jacob, Jonah.
  zh: 亚当、挪亚、雅各、约拿。
- start: 696.898
  end: 699.039
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, right away, you see Christological overtones.
  zh: 现在，你立刻就能看到基督论的含义。
- start: 699.039
  end: 702.281
  speaker: barron
  en: The only sign that will be given to you is the sign of Jonah.
  zh: 给你们的唯一神迹就是约拿的神迹。
- start: 703.522
  end: 709.225
  speaker: barron
  en: Oh, you'll see greater things than that; you'll see the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man, just like Jacob.
  zh: 哦，你们将看见比这更大的事；你们将看见神的使者上去下来在人子身上，就像雅各一样。
- start: 709.304
  end: 710.445
  speaker: barron
  en: What does Paul call Jesus?
  zh: 保罗怎么称呼耶稣？
- start: 710.445
  end: 711.245
  speaker: barron
  en: But the New Adam.
  zh: 是新亚当。
- start: 711.245
  end: 716.428
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, so right away, these figures have a strong Christological resonance.
  zh: 我的意思是，这些人物立即就显示出强烈的基督论共鸣。
- start: 717.049
  end: 718.69
  speaker: barron
  en: But let's start with Adam.
  zh: 但让我们从亚当开始。
- start: 719.711
  end: 730.877
  speaker: barron
  en: 'I got this really when I was doing my research and reading the ancient rabbis because I didn''t make this connection right away, but they did: that Adam is the first priest.'
  zh: 我是在研究和阅读古代拉比著作时才真正明白这一点，因为我一开始没有看出这个联系，但他们看出来了：亚当是第一位祭司。
- start: 731.998
  end: 736.541
  speaker: barron
  en: Adam, before the fall, he's a fallen priest too; that's important to see.
  zh: 亚当，在堕落之前，他也是个堕落的祭司；看到这一点很重要。
- start: 736.874
  end: 740.134
  speaker: barron
  en: For the fall, though, he's the archetype of the priesthood.
  zh: 不过在堕落之前，他是祭司职分的原型。
- start: 741.135
  end: 742.035
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, how come?
  zh: 现在，为什么呢？
- start: 742.135
  end: 749.116
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, we have to back up first to the very beginning of the Bible and the account of the creation.
  zh: 好吧，我们必须先回到圣经的最开始，回到创造的记载。
- start: 750.216
  end: 752.837
  speaker: barron
  en: What do we find now in that gorgeous language?
  zh: 在那优美的语言中我们现在发现什么？
- start: 753.737
  end: 760.338
  speaker: barron
  en: 'I think we Catholics are more attuned to this: Let there be light, and there was light.'
  zh: 我认为我们公教徒对这点更敏感：要有光，就有了光。
- start: 760.498
  end: 768.708
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, Evening came, morning followed, the second day, and then, you know, Let the earth come forth, and so on, and Evening came, and morning followed, the third day.
  zh: 你知道，有晚上，有早晨，是第二日，然后，你知道，地要发出，如此等等，有晚上，有早晨，是第三日。
- start: 768.708
  end: 776.869
  speaker: barron
  en: Let animals fill the earth and creeping, crawling things, and Evening came, and morning followed, the fourth day, etc. What does that sound like?
  zh: 让动物遍满地面和爬行的生物，有晚上，有早晨，是第四日，等等。这听起来像什么？
- start: 776.869
  end: 779.51
  speaker: barron
  en: Or, as you're imagining it, what does it look like?
  zh: 或者，在你的想象中，这看起来像什么？
- start: 780.43
  end: 790.932
  speaker: barron
  en: But a liturgical procession in this orderly, harmonious way, all of creation coming forth from the creative hand of God.
  zh: 这是一个有序、和谐的礼仪进程，所有受造物都从神创造的手中而出。
- start: 790.932
  end: 796.566
  speaker: barron
  en: Mind you, in almost all the ancient myths, creation is a violent act.
  zh: 请注意，在几乎所有古代神话中，创造都是一个暴力行为。
- start: 796.986
  end: 799.468
  speaker: barron
  en: There's some kind of clash of the gods.
  zh: 总有某种神祇之间的冲突。
- start: 800.128
  end: 805.612
  speaker: barron
  en: Often, it's the severed body parts of the defeated god that make up the world.
  zh: 常常是被打败的神的残肢断体构成了世界。
- start: 805.612
  end: 807.573
  speaker: barron
  en: It's creation through violence.
  zh: 这是通过暴力的创造。
- start: 808.654
  end: 813.817
  speaker: barron
  en: Then there's Genesis, which is creation not through violence because God has no rival.
  zh: 然后是创世记，这里的创造不是通过暴力，因为神没有对手。
- start: 814.317
  end: 818.18
  speaker: barron
  en: We speak then philosophically of creatio ex nihilo, right?
  zh: 我们从哲学角度说的是从无创造，对吧？
- start: 818.18
  end: 821.421
  speaker: barron
  en: That means a non-violent, non-confrontational creation.
  zh: 这意味着一个非暴力、非对抗性的创造。
- start: 821.422
  end: 831.964
  speaker: barron
  en: More to it, by a great act of speech, not of violence, the world comes forth non-violently in this ordered liturgical procession.
  zh: 更重要的是，通过伟大的言语行为，而不是暴力，世界在这有序的礼仪进程中和平地出现。
- start: 832.845
  end: 834.526
  speaker: barron
  en: Who comes at the end?
  zh: 谁在最后出现？
- start: 834.787
  end: 842.612
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, we know the person who comes at the end of a liturgical procession is the one who will lead the praise.
  zh: 我们知道，在礼仪进程最后出现的人是将要带领赞美的那一位。
- start: 843.493
  end: 850.958
  speaker: barron
  en: 'So all the ministers come in, and at the end comes the one who will lead the praise: Adam.'
  zh: 所以所有的侍奉者都进来了，最后来的是要带领赞美的那一位：亚当。
- start: 852.139
  end: 853.119
  speaker: barron
  en: What's our job?
  zh: 我们的工作是什么？
- start: 853.119
  end: 864.143
  speaker: barron
  en: 'And here''s the biblical reading I think is absolutely fundamental for the whole Bible: our job, we human beings, is to lead all of creation in a great chorus of praise.'
  zh: 这里是我认为对整本圣经来说绝对基础的解读：我们的工作，我们人类的工作，就是带领所有受造物在伟大的赞美合唱中。
- start: 864.283
  end: 868.664
  speaker: barron
  en: As we give right praise to God, we become rightly ordered.
  zh: 当我们正确地赞美神时，我们就变得正确有序。
- start: 868.664
  end: 875.766
  speaker: barron
  en: Yes, but by extension, the whole world, which we lead in praise, becomes rightly ordered.
  zh: 是的，而且更进一步说，我们在赞美中带领的整个世界也变得正确有序。
- start: 877.567
  end: 881.228
  speaker: barron
  en: Orthodoxy from the very beginning.
  zh: 这是从一开始就有的正统信仰。
- start: 882.045
  end: 885.928
  speaker: barron
  en: Notice how wonderful, you know, the famous Sabbath, the seventh day, when God rests.
  zh: 注意看多么奇妙，你知道，著名的安息日，第七日，神安息的日子。
- start: 886.129
  end: 891.994
  speaker: barron
  en: Obviously, the omnipotent Creator is not, you know, requiring recreation here.
  zh: 显然，全能的创造主在这里并不是需要休息。
- start: 891.994
  end: 893.995
  speaker: barron
  en: What does it mean?
  zh: 这是什么意思？
- start: 893.995
  end: 897.638
  speaker: barron
  en: It means that resting in the good.
  zh: 这意味着安息在美善之中。
- start: 897.638
  end: 902.002
  speaker: barron
  en: So Aquinas says there are two great moves of the will, right?
  zh: 所以阿奎那说意志有两个重要的动向，对吧？
- start: 902.402
  end: 907.066
  speaker: barron
  en: To seek the absent good, some good that I want; I'm going to go after it.
  zh: 一是寻求所缺乏的美善，就是我想要的某种美善；我要去追求它。
- start: 907.066
  end: 910.429
  speaker: barron
  en: We're kind of good at that in America; we're going to run after goods that we don't have.
  zh: 我们美国人在这方面很在行；我们总是追逐我们没有的东西。
- start: 910.66
  end: 921.668
  speaker: barron
  en: But the second act of the will, Aquinas says, is to rest in the good that we have, to savor and to appreciate the good that we have.
  zh: 但阿奎那说，意志的第二个行动是安息在我们所拥有的美善中，品味和欣赏我们所拥有的美善。
- start: 921.908
  end: 924.01
  speaker: barron
  en: That's how you watch a baseball game, right?
  zh: 这就像你看棒球比赛，对吧？
- start: 924.01
  end: 929.834
  speaker: barron
  en: If you're watching a baseball game and you're eager to get somewhere else, you're not watching the game; you're distracted.
  zh: 如果你在看棒球比赛时急着想去别的地方，你就不是在看比赛，你是在分心。
- start: 929.874
  end: 938.58
  speaker: barron
  en: The idea of a baseball game is you're going to spend three hours—it's a little faster now with the new pitching change—but let's say two and a half, two hours and 45 minutes.
  zh: 棒球比赛的理念是你要花三个小时——现在因为新的投球规则快了一点——但让我们说两个半小时，或者两小时四十五分钟。
- start: 938.806
  end: 939.967
  speaker: barron
  en: And you're contemplating.
  zh: 你在默观。
- start: 939.967
  end: 944.008
  speaker: barron
  en: It's a contemplative game because you're just lost in the beauty of what's going on.
  zh: 这是一个默观性的运动，因为你完全沉浸在正在发生的美中。
- start: 944.189
  end: 945.349
  speaker: barron
  en: It's why you play golf.
  zh: 这就是你打高尔夫的原因。
- start: 945.349
  end: 952.733
  speaker: barron
  en: If you're any good at it—I'm not—but if you're any good at it, you're just lost in the game; you're resting in the good.
  zh: 如果你打得好——我不太行——但如果你打得好，你就会完全沉浸在游戏中；你在美善中安息。
- start: 952.893
  end: 962.558
  speaker: barron
  en: That's why when we say about people who have died, you know, Requiescat in pace, I used to think of that as, May they just take a nap forever in a hammock.
  zh: 这就是为什么当我们谈到去世的人时说「愿他们安息」，我过去以为这就是愿他们永远在吊床上小憩。
- start: 963.218
  end: 965.259
  speaker: barron
  en: How boring that would be!
  zh: 那该多么无聊啊！
- start: 965.459
  end: 968.941
  speaker: barron
  en: 'What it means is the second act of the will: I mean rest.'
  zh: 它的意思是意志的第二个行动：我是说安息。
- start: 969.156
  end: 975.26
  speaker: barron
  en: Now that you're in the possession of the good, rest in it, savor it, taste it.
  zh: 现在你拥有了美善，就在其中安息，品味它，尝试它。
- start: 975.26
  end: 977.461
  speaker: barron
  en: Taste and see how good the Lord is.
  zh: 你们要尝尝主恩的滋味，便知道他是美善。
- start: 978.062
  end: 986.567
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, this is the Sabbath; this is the day par excellence of right praise when we rest in the good that God is.
  zh: 这就是安息日；这是最卓越的正确赞美之日，我们在神的美善中安息。
- start: 987.668
  end: 988.608
  speaker: barron
  en: Now look what happens.
  zh: 现在看看发生了什么。
- start: 988.608
  end: 994.011
  speaker: barron
  en: Here's the biblical wager; I think it's borne out in experience all the time.
  zh: 这是圣经的赌注；我认为经验一直在证实这一点。
- start: 994.612
  end: 1001.766
  speaker: barron
  en: When you worship aright—look up now at the rose window because that's what it's supposed to symbolize.
  zh: 当你正确敬拜时——现在抬头看玫瑰窗，因为这就是它应该象征的。
- start: 1002.566
  end: 1011.129
  speaker: barron
  en: When you worship aright, all the elements in you fall into harmony around that central place.
  zh: 当你正确敬拜时，你里面所有的元素都会围绕着那个中心和谐统一。
- start: 1012.269
  end: 1018.811
  speaker: barron
  en: So look at that rose window and think of your mind, your will, your private life, your public life, your passions, your friendships.
  zh: 所以看着那个玫瑰窗，想想你的心智、意志、私人生活、公共生活、热情和友谊。
- start: 1018.811
  end: 1020.852
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of everything that makes you up.
  zh: 想想构成你的一切。
- start: 1021.472
  end: 1027.914
  speaker: barron
  en: When you're worshiping aright, God's the highest value; all of that tends to fall into harmony.
  zh: 当你正确敬拜时，神是最高的价值；这一切都倾向于归于和谐。
- start: 1030.253
  end: 1033.215
  speaker: barron
  en: Kierkegaard said that the saint is someone whose life is about one thing.
  zh: 基尔凯郭尔说，圣徒是生命专注于一件事的人。
- start: 1033.215
  end: 1041.761
  speaker: barron
  en: That doesn't mean that you're just kind of monotonously focused on one thing; it means you're ordered.
  zh: 这并不意味着你只是单调地专注于一件事；这意味着你是有序的。
- start: 1041.881
  end: 1058.773
  speaker: barron
  en: Your worship is clear, and now everything you do—and the saints that I read about had very busy, active, interesting, often conflictual lives and so on—but everything in them fell into harmony around that central place.
  zh: 你的敬拜是清晰的，现在你所做的一切——我读到的圣徒们都有着非常忙碌、活跃、有趣，常常充满冲突的生活等等——但他们里面的一切都围绕着那个中心归于和谐。
- start: 1060.16
  end: 1067.344
  speaker: barron
  en: More to it, when you're centered that way, you tend to produce peace around you.
  zh: 更重要的是，当你这样以此为中心时，你倾向于在你周围产生平安。
- start: 1068.785
  end: 1070.166
  speaker: barron
  en: That's why the saints have halos.
  zh: 这就是为什么圣徒有光环。
- start: 1070.166
  end: 1074.669
  speaker: barron
  en: The idea there is that—and I've known a few saints in my life—and they are like that.
  zh: 这个意思是——我在生命中认识过几位圣徒——他们确实是这样的。
- start: 1074.669
  end: 1083.454
  speaker: barron
  en: They're luminous; their inner orderliness radiates out and produces peace.
  zh: 他们是发光的；他们内在的秩序向外辐射并产生平安。
- start: 1084.81
  end: 1090.632
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Look at the formula we sing or say every Sunday: Glory to God in the highest.'
  zh: 看看我们每个主日唱或说的格式：在至高之处荣耀归与神。
- start: 1090.652
  end: 1095.134
  speaker: barron
  en: Mind you, this is the angels saying that liturgically.
  zh: 请注意，这是天使们在礼仪中说的。
- start: 1095.134
  end: 1096.675
  speaker: barron
  en: How important the angels are!
  zh: 天使们多么重要啊！
- start: 1096.675
  end: 1101.296
  speaker: barron
  en: We treat them as little pious decorations; they're not pious decorations.
  zh: 我们把他们当作小小的虔诚装饰；他们不是虔诚的装饰。
- start: 1101.296
  end: 1103.077
  speaker: barron
  en: They're near the heart of the matter.
  zh: 他们接近事物的核心。
- start: 1103.597
  end: 1107.959
  speaker: barron
  en: May our voices down here blend with theirs.
  zh: 愿我们在地上的声音与他们的声音融合。
- start: 1108.089
  end: 1109.389
  speaker: barron
  en: And what do they say?
  zh: 他们说什么？
- start: 1109.389
  end: 1111.07
  speaker: barron
  en: Holy, holy, holy.
  zh: 圣哉，圣哉，圣哉。
- start: 1111.07
  end: 1121.613
  speaker: barron
  en: They're giving glory to God in the highest, and may our voices join with theirs so that we can find, even here below, the same harmony they have.
  zh: 他们在至高之处将荣耀归给神，愿我们的声音与他们的声音相连，使我们即使在地上也能找到他们所拥有的和谐。
- start: 1121.613
  end: 1123.274
  speaker: barron
  en: Because what are they doing all day?
  zh: 因为他们整天在做什么？
- start: 1123.274
  end: 1125.334
  speaker: barron
  en: They're worshiping God.
  zh: 他们在敬拜神。
- start: 1126.675
  end: 1132.957
  speaker: barron
  en: May the heavenly order—Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
  zh: 愿天上的秩序——愿你的国降临，愿你的旨意行在地上，如同行在天上。
- start: 1133.997
  end: 1137.011
  speaker: barron
  en: 'That''s what the liturgy is: this place of right praise.'
  zh: 这就是礼仪：正确赞美的场所。
- start: 1137.011
  end: 1141.692
  speaker: barron
  en: But mind you, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to people of goodwill.
  zh: 但请注意，在至高之处荣耀归与神，在地上平安归与他所喜悦的人。
- start: 1141.972
  end: 1147.673
  speaker: barron
  en: When you worship aright, peace tends to break out around you.
  zh: 当你正确敬拜时，平安倾向于在你周围涌现。
- start: 1149.013
  end: 1149.474
  speaker: barron
  en: Now watch that.
  zh: 现在注意看。
- start: 1149.474
  end: 1151.014
  speaker: barron
  en: We're all sinners in this room, right?
  zh: 我们在这个房间里的都是罪人，对吧？
- start: 1151.014
  end: 1156.875
  speaker: barron
  en: So you know what it's like when you become a source of disorder in others.
  zh: 所以你知道当你成为他人混乱的源头是什么样子。
- start: 1156.995
  end: 1157.435
  speaker: barron
  en: Am I right?
  zh: 我说得对吗？
- start: 1157.435
  end: 1169.266
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, the disorder in you—we're all sinners in this room—but the terrible thing is when our own bad praise awakens dysfunction in people around us.
  zh: 我是说，你里面的混乱——我们在这个房间里的都是罪人——但可怕的是当我们自己错误的赞美唤醒周围人的功能失调。
- start: 1169.987
  end: 1172.848
  speaker: barron
  en: Think here of Dante's image of Satan, which is so good.
  zh: 想想但丁笔下撒但的形象，那是如此贴切。
- start: 1172.848
  end: 1174.089
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, he's not in flames.
  zh: 你知道，他不是在火焰中。
- start: 1174.089
  end: 1176.11
  speaker: barron
  en: They're too dramatic; he's in ice.
  zh: 那太戏剧化了；他是在冰中。
- start: 1176.17
  end: 1177.591
  speaker: barron
  en: We Minnesotans know about that.
  zh: 我们明尼苏达人对此很了解。
- start: 1177.591
  end: 1180.473
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean ice, which is awful.
  zh: 我是说冰，那是可怕的。
- start: 1180.473
  end: 1182.734
  speaker: barron
  en: I'd rather be too hot than too cold.
  zh: 我宁愿太热也不愿太冷。
- start: 1182.734
  end: 1185.476
  speaker: barron
  en: It's being too cold, and it isolates him.
  zh: 太冷使他孤立。
- start: 1185.476
  end: 1188.738
  speaker: barron
  en: He's stuck in the ice, and what's he doing?
  zh: 他被困在冰中，他在做什么？
- start: 1188.738
  end: 1189.879
  speaker: barron
  en: He's beating his wings.
  zh: 他在拍打翅膀。
- start: 1189.879
  end: 1190.919
  speaker: barron
  en: He's an angel, right?
  zh: 他是天使，对吧？
- start: 1190.919
  end: 1192.22
  speaker: barron
  en: Meant to fly.
  zh: 本该飞翔。
- start: 1192.915
  end: 1193.795
  speaker: barron
  en: Meant to fly.
  zh: 本该飞翔。
- start: 1193.795
  end: 1195.376
  speaker: barron
  en: How come the angels can fly?
  zh: 为什么天使能飞？
- start: 1195.376
  end: 1198.117
  speaker: barron
  en: Chesterton said because they take themselves so lightly.
  zh: 切斯特顿说因为他们把自己看得很轻。
- start: 1198.557
  end: 1202.378
  speaker: barron
  en: 'But that''s the idea: you''re meant to fly up into God.'
  zh: 但这就是要旨：你本该向上飞向神。
- start: 1202.378
  end: 1206.219
  speaker: barron
  en: The trouble is Satan is weighed down by his own self-worship.
  zh: 问题是撒但被他自我崇拜的重担压住了。
- start: 1206.3
  end: 1212.762
  speaker: barron
  en: But he's beating his wings and succeeding thereby in making the world around him colder.
  zh: 但他拍打着翅膀，结果只是让周围的世界变得更冷。
- start: 1213.142
  end: 1216.243
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the image; that's the image of sin.
  zh: 这就是那个形象；这就是罪的形象。
- start: 1216.283
  end: 1220.104
  speaker: barron
  en: Your bad praise leads to dysfunction around you.
  zh: 你错误的赞美导致你周围的功能失调。
- start: 1221.223
  end: 1226.504
  speaker: barron
  en: Glory to God in the highest, not to money, sex, power, pleasure, family, country, or anything else.
  zh: 荣耀要归于至高之处的神，而不是金钱、性、权力、快乐、家庭、国家或其他任何事物。
- start: 1226.504
  end: 1230.985
  speaker: barron
  en: When you give those things the highest value, you'll make the world around you colder.
  zh: 当你把这些事物当作最高价值时，你会使周围的世界变得更冷。
- start: 1232.385
  end: 1234.886
  speaker: barron
  en: May our voices join with the angels' voice.
  zh: 愿我们的声音与天使的声音相连。
- start: 1234.886
  end: 1241.887
  speaker: barron
  en: See, I mean all of that, I think, is implied in these first lines of Genesis, of what the purpose of creation is.
  zh: 看，我的意思是，我认为这一切都暗含在创世记的开篇经文中，关于创造的目的是什么。
- start: 1241.887
  end: 1248.128
  speaker: barron
  en: I talk about the Sabbath and praise and joy.
  zh: 我谈论安息日、赞美和喜乐。
- start: 1248.359
  end: 1249.921
  speaker: barron
  en: I go back here to Romano Guardini.
  zh: 我在这里要回到罗马诺·瓜尔迪尼。
- start: 1249.921
  end: 1251.022
  speaker: barron
  en: Do you guys still read him?
  zh: 你们还读他的作品吗？
- start: 1251.022
  end: 1251.923
  speaker: barron
  en: The Spirit of the Liturgy?
  zh: 《礼仪精神》？
- start: 1251.923
  end: 1259.911
  speaker: barron
  en: Because that lovely idea of Guardini is that the liturgy is the highest form of play, and that's, you know, my baseball and golf images and all that.
  zh: 因为瓜尔迪尼那个美好的想法是礼仪是游戏的最高形式，这就是，你知道，我说的棒球和高尔夫的比喻等等。
- start: 1259.911
  end: 1265.256
  speaker: barron
  en: The play, as Aristotle knew, is the highest thing we do, right?
  zh: 正如亚里士多德所知，游戏是我们所做的最高尚的事，对吧？
- start: 1265.256
  end: 1270.681
  speaker: barron
  en: Because it's sought for its own sake; it's not subordinated to an end extrinsic to itself.
  zh: 因为它是为其本身而追求的；它不是从属于外在的目的。
- start: 1271.122
  end: 1271.782
  speaker: barron
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 1272.931
  end: 1275.512
  speaker: barron
  en: Car repair is for the sake of a car running well.
  zh: 修车是为了让车跑得好。
- start: 1275.512
  end: 1280.716
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, I do know some car repair people for whom car repair itself is a form of play, and I get that.
  zh: 现在，我确实认识一些修车的人，对他们来说修车本身就是一种游戏，我理解这一点。
- start: 1280.716
  end: 1284.038
  speaker: barron
  en: You know that you're so caught up in the kind of beauty of that.
  zh: 你知道你完全沉浸在那种美中。
- start: 1284.438
  end: 1292.964
  speaker: barron
  en: But the highest things are playful things, which is why the liturgy, the highest possible thing we do, is the most playful thing we do.
  zh: 但最高尚的事物是游戏性的事物，这就是为什么礼仪，我们所做的最高尚的事，是我们所做的最具游戏性的事。
- start: 1294.105
  end: 1307.332
  speaker: barron
  en: Here's something I learned too from the early, early commentators—I never saw this before—that the Garden of Eden, where Adam and Eve are before the fall, leading the world in right praise, the Garden of Eden is a mountain.
  zh: 这是我从早期的注释者那里学到的东西——我以前从未注意到——伊甸园，就是亚当和夏娃在堕落前带领世界正确赞美的地方，伊甸园是一座山。
- start: 1307.332
  end: 1310.054
  speaker: barron
  en: And we know that because the rivers flow out from it.
  zh: 我们知道这一点是因为河流从那里流出。
- start: 1310.554
  end: 1313.436
  speaker: barron
  en: So don't think of it as like a plain, but as a mountain.
  zh: 所以不要把它想象成平原，而是一座山。
- start: 1313.556
  end: 1325.823
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, the minute you say mountain in the Bible, you've got Mount Ararat, you've got Mount Zion, and you've got Mount Calvary, and you've got Mount Tabor—the mountain, the place where we go up and where God comes down.
  zh: 好吧，一旦你在圣经中说到山，你就有了亚拉腊山、锡安山、加略山和他泊山——山，就是我们上去而神下来的地方。
- start: 1325.883
  end: 1328.164
  speaker: barron
  en: It's the meeting place of heaven and earth.
  zh: 这是天地相会的地方。
- start: 1330.191
  end: 1333.832
  speaker: barron
  en: That's our job, see, is to inhabit the sacred mountain.
  zh: 看，这就是我们的工作，就是居住在圣山上。
- start: 1333.832
  end: 1339.554
  speaker: barron
  en: That's why this place is a mountain; that's why you're supposed to go up to the sanctuary.
  zh: 这就是为什么这个地方是一座山；这就是为什么你应该上到圣所。
- start: 1339.554
  end: 1342.055
  speaker: barron
  en: You're going up to the holy mountain, right?
  zh: 你是在上圣山，对吧？
- start: 1342.055
  end: 1344.816
  speaker: barron
  en: And I'll say more about that as we go.
  zh: 我们继续时我会多说一些。
- start: 1346.756
  end: 1349.917
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Just a word about this: so we''re looking at the priestly task of Adam.'
  zh: 关于这一点只说一句：我们在看亚当的祭司任务。
- start: 1349.917
  end: 1353.398
  speaker: barron
  en: There's also a kingly task; he's also king.
  zh: 还有一个君王的任务；他也是君王。
- start: 1353.398
  end: 1366.79
  speaker: barron
  en: 'The rabbis write it this way: Adam''s job was, now having found this order and this harmony, to go on the march and to edenize the world.'
  zh: 拉比们是这样写的：亚当的工作是，在找到这种秩序和和谐之后，继续前进，使世界伊甸化。
- start: 1366.79
  end: 1371.812
  speaker: barron
  en: So Eden has a sense of like a walled garden, like an enclosed place, okay?
  zh: 所以伊甸有一种围墙花园的感觉，像一个封闭的地方，好吗？
- start: 1371.812
  end: 1372.453
  speaker: barron
  en: And that's good.
  zh: 这是好的。
- start: 1372.453
  end: 1375.414
  speaker: barron
  en: Like the liturgy, where we are right now is an enclosed place.
  zh: 就像礼仪一样，我们现在所在的地方是一个封闭的地方。
- start: 1375.414
  end: 1377.955
  speaker: barron
  en: It's like Noah's Ark, I'll say in a few minutes.
  zh: 这就像挪亚方舟，我一会儿会说到。
- start: 1378.695
  end: 1383.316
  speaker: barron
  en: But the idea is not to stay on the ark or to stay in the enclosed garden.
  zh: 但这个想法不是停留在方舟上或停留在封闭的花园里。
- start: 1383.316
  end: 1389.839
  speaker: barron
  en: The idea is to go forth like a king on march and to extend the borders of Eden outward.
  zh: 这个想法是像行进中的君王一样前进，向外扩展伊甸的边界。
- start: 1390.439
  end: 1396.382
  speaker: barron
  en: See, now, brothers and sisters, it's evangelization we're talking about.
  zh: 看，现在，弟兄姐妹们，我们在谈论的是福音传播。
- start: 1396.382
  end: 1407.527
  speaker: barron
  en: So in the first century, a Roman general or the emperor would send evangelists out with the euangelion, the good news that he'd won a victory.
  zh: 所以在第一世纪，罗马将军或皇帝会派遣传信者带着福音出去，宣告他已经获得胜利的好消息。
- start: 1407.707
  end: 1412.467
  speaker: barron
  en: See, Paul got that, and the Gospel writers got it.
  zh: 看，保罗明白这一点，福音书作者们也明白。
- start: 1412.628
  end: 1423.594
  speaker: barron
  en: When St. Mark says, I'm giving you here the euangelion about Jesus, the Son of God, he knew exactly what he's saying—that this is the real news of an imperial victory won there.
  zh: 当圣马可说，我在这里给你们关于耶稣，神的儿子的福音时，他很清楚自己在说什么——这是一个真正的帝国胜利的消息。
- start: 1423.594
  end: 1424.774
  speaker: barron
  en: And I'll get there.
  zh: 我会讲到这一点。
- start: 1425.815
  end: 1427.016
  speaker: barron
  en: But what's our job?
  zh: 但我们的工作是什么？
- start: 1427.016
  end: 1434.059
  speaker: barron
  en: Now to be like Adam, a good king that goes forth to spread this order and harmony.
  zh: 现在要像亚当一样，作一个出去传播这种秩序和和谐的好君王。
- start: 1436.141
  end: 1438.922
  speaker: barron
  en: What do we see in much of the Bible today?
  zh: 我们在今天的圣经中看到了什么？
- start: 1439.625
  end: 1442.546
  speaker: barron
  en: Bad priests and bad kings, right?
  zh: 坏祭司和坏君王，对吧？
- start: 1443.246
  end: 1444.667
  speaker: barron
  en: Bad priests and bad kings.
  zh: 坏祭司和坏君王。
- start: 1444.667
  end: 1448.768
  speaker: barron
  en: And that's the tragedy because, see, what happened?
  zh: 这就是悲剧，因为，看，发生了什么？
- start: 1448.768
  end: 1453.39
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm painting the positive picture so far, but then we have the fall.
  zh: 到目前为止我画的是积极的图景，但接着我们有了堕落。
- start: 1455.231
  end: 1456.391
  speaker: barron
  en: What's the fall?
  zh: 什么是堕落？
- start: 1456.451
  end: 1459.612
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, I can describe it many ways, but the basic description?
  zh: 好吧，我可以用很多方式描述它，但最基本的描述是什么？
- start: 1459.893
  end: 1461.053
  speaker: barron
  en: Bad praise.
  zh: 错误的赞美。
- start: 1462.174
  end: 1464.754
  speaker: barron
  en: Hey, don't eat of one tree.
  zh: 嘿，不要吃一棵树上的果子。
- start: 1465.475
  end: 1474.562
  speaker: barron
  en: 'And before we get to the great prohibition, look at the great permission: God says, Eat of all the trees in the garden.'
  zh: 在我们谈到那个重大禁令之前，看看那个重大许可：神说，园中各样树上的果子都可以吃。
- start: 1474.562
  end: 1476.304
  speaker: barron
  en: Eat of anything you want.
  zh: 你想吃什么都可以吃。
- start: 1476.625
  end: 1480.511
  speaker: barron
  en: The Church Fathers read that as full human flourishing.
  zh: 教父们将此理解为人类的完全繁荣。
- start: 1480.7
  end: 1487.763
  speaker: barron
  en: That's politics, and it's science, and it's art, and it's philosophy, and it's friendship, and all the forms of human flourishing.
  zh: 这包括政治、科学、艺术、哲学、友谊，以及人类繁荣的所有形式。
- start: 1487.763
  end: 1498.547
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Irenaeus says, right: Gloria Dei homo vivens, the glory of God is a human being fully alive, rooted in right praise, and now flourishing in every way.'
  zh: 爱任纽说得对：「神的荣耀是活着的人」，就是在正确赞美中扎根，并在各方面都繁荣的人。
- start: 1498.947
  end: 1504.109
  speaker: barron
  en: So our God is not this kind of, you know, cramped puritanical figure that's shaking His finger.
  zh: 所以我们的神不是那种，你知道，拘谨的清教徒式的摇着手指的形象。
- start: 1504.109
  end: 1507.33
  speaker: barron
  en: No, it's huge permission.
  zh: 不，这是巨大的许可。
- start: 1508.39
  end: 1510.431
  speaker: barron
  en: But what's the one prohibition?
  zh: 但那一个禁令是什么？
- start: 1511.766
  end: 1521.129
  speaker: barron
  en: Do not arrogate to yourself the determination of good and evil—eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
  zh: 不要擅自决定善恶——不要吃分别善恶树上的果子。
- start: 1521.149
  end: 1525.31
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Please don''t read that as some people have over the centuries: The Church is against knowledge.'
  zh: 请不要像几个世纪以来有些人那样理解：教会反对知识。
- start: 1526.111
  end: 1526.911
  speaker: barron
  en: Thomas Aquinas?
  zh: 托马斯·阿奎那？
- start: 1526.911
  end: 1528.331
  speaker: barron
  en: The Church is against knowledge?
  zh: 教会反对知识？
- start: 1531.172
  end: 1538.114
  speaker: barron
  en: Don't arrogate to yourself; don't take into yourself the prerogative of determining good and evil.
  zh: 不要擅自专权；不要把决定善恶的特权归于自己。
- start: 1538.475
  end: 1542.447
  speaker: barron
  en: When that happens, right worship ends.
  zh: 当这发生时，正确的敬拜就结束了。
- start: 1542.588
  end: 1548.709
  speaker: barron
  en: See, that's the primordial form of bad worship because now, essentially, I'm worshiping my own will.
  zh: 看，这是错误敬拜的原始形式，因为现在，本质上，我在崇拜自己的意志。
- start: 1549.509
  end: 1551.389
  speaker: barron
  en: Does this sound familiar, by the way?
  zh: 顺便说一句，这听起来熟悉吗？
- start: 1552.37
  end: 1555.27
  speaker: barron
  en: All over our culture today.
  zh: 在我们今天的文化中随处可见。
- start: 1556.471
  end: 1562.692
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Go back to Nietzsche and see it philosophically; see it start in the 20th century: existence precedes essence.'
  zh: 回到尼采那里从哲学角度看；看它在20世纪开始：存在先于本质。
- start: 1562.732
  end: 1566.973
  speaker: barron
  en: My freedom comes first, and I determine what I shall be, right?
  zh: 我的自由优先，我决定我应该成为什么，对吧？
- start: 1567.401
  end: 1571.642
  speaker: barron
  en: The Bible knew all about existentialism long before it started.
  zh: 圣经在存在主义出现很久之前就知道这一切。
- start: 1571.702
  end: 1573.383
  speaker: barron
  en: It's called original sin.
  zh: 这就叫原罪。
- start: 1574.543
  end: 1581.125
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Look at it; it''s the default position of every teenager in America today, it seems to me: My will, I determine; it''s my choice.'
  zh: 看看这个；在我看来，这是今天美国每个青少年的默认立场：我的意志，我决定；这是我的选择。
- start: 1581.125
  end: 1585.546
  speaker: barron
  en: Don't tell me what to do; I determine even my own gender, even my own body.
  zh: 不要告诉我该做什么；我甚至决定自己的性别，甚至决定自己的身体。
- start: 1585.546
  end: 1588.107
  speaker: barron
  en: I determine everything.
  zh: 我决定一切。
- start: 1588.107
  end: 1589.767
  speaker: barron
  en: Why do we have such chaos?
  zh: 为什么我们会有如此混乱？
- start: 1590.167
  end: 1593.928
  speaker: barron
  en: The Bible knew it because that's the primordial form of bad worship.
  zh: 圣经知道这一点，因为这是错误敬拜的原始形式。
- start: 1595.289
  end: 1598.077
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, what happens when you worship the wrong way?
  zh: 好，当你用错误的方式敬拜时会发生什么？
- start: 1598.077
  end: 1600.259
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, just now turn this picture around.
  zh: 好吧，现在让我们把这幅图景翻转过来。
- start: 1600.259
  end: 1610.487
  speaker: barron
  en: I put something other than God in the center of my life, and I disintegrate.
  zh: 我把神以外的东西放在生命的中心，然后我就分崩离析。
- start: 1611.548
  end: 1614.71
  speaker: barron
  en: And again, we sinners know it from direct experience.
  zh: 再说一次，我们这些罪人从直接经验中知道这一点。
- start: 1615.451
  end: 1624.999
  speaker: barron
  en: My mind goes this way, my will goes that way, this passion goes this way, the other passion goes that way.
  zh: 我的心思往这边走，我的意志往那边走，这个情欲往这边走，那个情欲往那边走。
- start: 1625.504
  end: 1627.786
  speaker: barron
  en: Welcome to the scandal of the last 25 years.
  zh: 欢迎来到过去25年的丑闻。
- start: 1627.786
  end: 1631.65
  speaker: barron
  en: My public life goes this way, my private life goes that way.
  zh: 我的公共生活往这边走，我的私人生活往那边走。
- start: 1632.531
  end: 1636.655
  speaker: barron
  en: My one friend takes me here, the other friend takes me in a totally different direction.
  zh: 一个朋友把我带到这里，另一个朋友把我带向完全不同的方向。
- start: 1638.777
  end: 1643.762
  speaker: barron
  en: We disintegrate on the inside when we worship improperly.
  zh: 当我们不正确敬拜时，我们在内心分崩离析。
- start: 1644.668
  end: 1647.129
  speaker: barron
  en: Oh, I love my family.
  zh: 哦，我爱我的家庭。
- start: 1647.129
  end: 1651.791
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, I know it's great, but if you worship your family, you'll fall apart.
  zh: 是的，我知道这很好，但如果你崇拜你的家庭，你就会崩溃。
- start: 1651.791
  end: 1654.252
  speaker: barron
  en: Hey, I'm a patriot; I worship my country.
  zh: 嘿，我是爱国者；我崇拜我的国家。
- start: 1654.252
  end: 1654.952
  speaker: barron
  en: No, no, no.
  zh: 不，不，不。
- start: 1654.952
  end: 1656.713
  speaker: barron
  en: Then you will fall apart.
  zh: 那样你就会崩溃。
- start: 1656.753
  end: 1659.294
  speaker: barron
  en: You've mistaken the creature for the Creator.
  zh: 你把受造物错当作造物主了。
- start: 1661.015
  end: 1667.838
  speaker: barron
  en: 'You know the great image from C.S. Lewis I go back to a lot: the ships in a convoy.'
  zh: 你知道我经常回顾的C.S.路易斯的那个伟大比喻：船队中的船。
- start: 1667.838
  end: 1668.718
  speaker: barron
  en: Remember that?
  zh: 记得吗？
- start: 1668.718
  end: 1670.639
  speaker: barron
  en: I think it's from Mere Christianity.
  zh: 我想这是出自《返璞归真》。
- start: 1671.554
  end: 1672.455
  speaker: barron
  en: It's like the rose window.
  zh: 这就像玫瑰窗。
- start: 1672.455
  end: 1674.795
  speaker: barron
  en: The ships would be all the elements that make me up.
  zh: 这些船就是构成我的所有元素。
- start: 1674.795
  end: 1681.018
  speaker: barron
  en: When they're under the command of the admiral, they're on point, and they're going together, and they're on mission.
  zh: 当它们在将军的指挥下时，它们就保持正确方向，一起前进，执行使命。
- start: 1682.038
  end: 1683.138
  speaker: barron
  en: What happens?
  zh: 会发生什么？
- start: 1683.599
  end: 1690.681
  speaker: barron
  en: One ship gets offline, and you say, Oh, look, I'm pretty good; I got pretty much together.
  zh: 一艘船偏离航线，你说，哦，看，我还不错；我基本上都在正轨上。
- start: 1690.681
  end: 1694.162
  speaker: barron
  en: But there's just one area of my life that I know is not really together.
  zh: 但我知道生活中就有一个领域不太对劲。
- start: 1695.563
  end: 1703.979
  speaker: barron
  en: One ship goes off, and it's going to knock into the other one, which will then knock into the other one, and before you know it, the entire convoy is a mess, right?
  zh: 一艘船偏离了，它会撞到另一艘，然后那艘又会撞到其他的，在你意识到之前，整个船队就乱成一团了，对吧？
- start: 1704.98
  end: 1712.925
  speaker: barron
  en: Be attentive that every element in you is connected, like that rose window, to the center and then by these spokes to each other.
  zh: 要注意你里面的每个元素都像那个玫瑰窗一样，与中心相连，然后通过这些辐条彼此相连。
- start: 1714.767
  end: 1722.691
  speaker: barron
  en: Look at the—it’s blazingly clear in the New Testament—in the demonically possessed, right?
  zh: 看看——在新约中非常清楚——在被鬼附的人身上，对吧？
- start: 1722.772
  end: 1728.495
  speaker: barron
  en: And I've talked about this a lot before, but diabolein in Greek means to scatter things.
  zh: 我以前经常谈到这一点，但希腊语中的diabolein的意思是使事物分散。
- start: 1728.911
  end: 1735.713
  speaker: barron
  en: So the diabolos, le diablo, el diablo, the devil, is a scattering power.
  zh: 所以魔鬼是一种使事物分散的力量。
- start: 1735.713
  end: 1740.574
  speaker: barron
  en: 'First inside: What do you want of us, Jesus of Nazareth?'
  zh: 首先在内心：拿撒勒的耶稣，你要我们做什么？
- start: 1740.574
  end: 1742.314
  speaker: barron
  en: Have you come to destroy us?
  zh: 你来是要灭我们吗？
- start: 1742.314
  end: 1743.654
  speaker: barron
  en: One person speaking?
  zh: 一个人在说话？
- start: 1743.815
  end: 1745.895
  speaker: barron
  en: But see, we all know what that's like, don't we?
  zh: 但是看，我们都知道那是什么感觉，不是吗？
- start: 1745.895
  end: 1746.675
  speaker: barron
  en: Because we're sinners.
  zh: 因为我们是罪人。
- start: 1746.675
  end: 1754.017
  speaker: barron
  en: We all know what that's like—that I, this one person, am speaking in a plural voice because I'm divided against myself.
  zh: 我们都知道那是什么感觉——我，这一个人，用复数的声音说话，因为我与自己分裂。
- start: 1754.137
  end: 1755.217
  speaker: barron
  en: What did Paul say?
  zh: 保罗说什么？
- start: 1755.217
  end: 1758.858
  speaker: barron
  en: The good that I would do, that's what I don't do.
  zh: 我所愿意做的善，我反不做。
- start: 1759.062
  end: 1762.044
  speaker: barron
  en: The evil that I would avoid, that's what I do.
  zh: 我所不愿意做的恶，我倒去做。
- start: 1762.044
  end: 1764.165
  speaker: barron
  en: Who will deliver me from this body of death?
  zh: 谁能救我脱离这取死的身体呢？
- start: 1764.165
  end: 1769.027
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, right praise, right worship will.
  zh: 好吧，正确的赞美，正确的敬拜会做到。
- start: 1770.128
  end: 1771.609
  speaker: barron
  en: And then keep it going.
  zh: 然后继续下去。
- start: 1771.669
  end: 1777.092
  speaker: barron
  en: When I fall apart on the inside, I tend to radiate disintegration around me.
  zh: 当我内心分崩离析时，我倾向于向周围散发瓦解。
- start: 1777.752
  end: 1780.474
  speaker: barron
  en: There's Satan again, beating his wings over the ice.
  zh: 那又是撒但，在冰上拍打着翅膀。
- start: 1782.075
  end: 1788.378
  speaker: barron
  en: So the fall necessarily has this radiating effect.
  zh: 所以堕落必然有这种辐射效应。
- start: 1788.746
  end: 1799.335
  speaker: barron
  en: That's why the Church quite rightly talks about original sin as this universal miasma, this universal mess that we're all in.
  zh: 这就是为什么教会很正确地把原罪说成是这种普遍的瘴气，这种我们都身处其中的普遍混乱。
- start: 1800.076
  end: 1801.076
  speaker: barron
  en: What's Cheshire again?
  zh: 切斯特又是怎么说的？
- start: 1801.076
  end: 1805.4
  speaker: barron
  en: We're all in the same boat, and we're all seasick, right?
  zh: 我们都在同一条船上，而且都晕船了，对吧？
- start: 1805.4
  end: 1812.025
  speaker: barron
  en: Because this dysfunction has gone out from the beginning of the human race, enveloping all of us.
  zh: 因为这种功能失调从人类开始就存在，笼罩着我们所有人。
- start: 1812.066
  end: 1819.582
  speaker: barron
  en: And then he's a bad king; he will not go properly on march; he will not spread the kingdom of God.
  zh: 然后他成了一个坏君王；他不会正确地前进；他不会传播神的国度。
- start: 1819.582
  end: 1822.483
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Just the opposite: he''ll spread the false kingdom.'
  zh: 恰恰相反：他会传播虚假的国度。
- start: 1822.963
  end: 1826.804
  speaker: barron
  en: So, I mean, there is the tone I think that's set for the whole Bible.
  zh: 所以，我的意思是，我认为这就是整本圣经设定的基调。
- start: 1827.024
  end: 1832.405
  speaker: barron
  en: How does Israel recover right kingship, right priesthood?
  zh: 以色列如何恢复正确的君权和祭司职分？
- start: 1833.206
  end: 1835.386
  speaker: barron
  en: How often is Israel trying to find a good king?
  zh: 以色列多少次试图寻找一个好君王？
- start: 1835.386
  end: 1838.947
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, David's the best example, but heck, David's an adulterer and a murderer.
  zh: 现在，大卫是最好的例子，但天啊，大卫是个通奸者和凶手。
- start: 1838.947
  end: 1841.108
  speaker: barron
  en: That's why they're still looking.
  zh: 这就是为什么他们还在寻找。
- start: 1841.108
  end: 1846.174
  speaker: barron
  en: See, they were still looking for the right kings, the priesthood.
  zh: 看，他们还在寻找正确的君王和祭司职分。
- start: 1846.174
  end: 1848.435
  speaker: barron
  en: Why is the Bible so concerned?
  zh: 为什么圣经如此关注？
- start: 1848.435
  end: 1863.678
  speaker: barron
  en: When you read in Exodus, you read in Leviticus especially, but Numbers as well, these detailed accounts of vestments and gesture and incense and altar and miters and sacrifice—why is such attention being paid?
  zh: 当你读出埃及记，特别是利未记，还有民数记时，这些关于祭司服装、手势、香、祭坛、冠冕和祭祀的详细记载——为什么要如此关注？
- start: 1863.678
  end: 1866.259
  speaker: barron
  en: Because God is obsessed with all these little details.
  zh: 因为神关注所有这些小细节。
- start: 1867.419
  end: 1876.83
  speaker: barron
  en: He's teaching His people how to worship, disciplining His chosen people, Israel, how to worship Him.
  zh: 他在教导他的子民如何敬拜，训练他的选民以色列如何敬拜他。
- start: 1877.691
  end: 1886.913
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, I hope you see, brothers, as you're preparing for the priesthood, how all this is massively relevant to the work that we do.
  zh: 现在，弟兄们，当你们准备担任祭司职分时，我希望你们看到这一切与我们所做的工作有多么密切的关系。
- start: 1889.574
  end: 1893.155
  speaker: barron
  en: 6:30 Mass on Tuesday morning, ten nice people out there in the pews.
  zh: 星期二早上6:30的弥撒，长椅上坐着十个好人。
- start: 1893.196
  end: 1903.098
  speaker: barron
  en: But see, you are doing something of cosmic, metaphysical significance when you are leading your people in right praise.
  zh: 但是看，当你带领你的会众进行正确的赞美时，你在做一件具有宇宙性、形而上意义的事情。
- start: 1905.752
  end: 1911.034
  speaker: barron
  en: It's a little parish, 6:30 Mass Tuesday morning, but you're knitting together the universe.
  zh: 这是一个小教区，星期二早上6:30的弥撒，但你在编织整个宇宙。
- start: 1913.955
  end: 1918.076
  speaker: barron
  en: 'That''s the most important thing we do as priests: to lead our people in right praise.'
  zh: 这是我们作为祭司最重要的事：带领我们的会众进行正确的赞美。
- start: 1918.137
  end: 1920.217
  speaker: barron
  en: Everything else will flow from that.
  zh: 其他一切都将从此流出。
- start: 1920.998
  end: 1928.8
  speaker: barron
  en: I was talking recently to a group of Catholic Worker folks, and Dorothy Day is a great hero of mine.
  zh: 我最近在和一群公教工人团体的人交谈，多萝西·戴是我的一位伟大英雄。
- start: 1929.821
  end: 1938.944
  speaker: barron
  en: My fear is that some of the Catholic Worker groups have drifted away from Dorothy Day and have become very much just social justice.
  zh: 我担心一些公教工人团体已经偏离了多萝西·戴的道路，变得只注重社会正义。
- start: 1939.364
  end: 1948.23
  speaker: barron
  en: 'I always tell them: Dorothy Day, Mass, Benediction, retreats—the saints.'
  zh: 我总是告诉他们：多萝西·戴、弥撒、圣体降福、退省——圣人们。
- start: 1948.231
  end: 1953.365
  speaker: barron
  en: Those lovely pictures of Dorothy Day on her knees with the rosary, you know, that's where it comes from.
  zh: 那些多萝西·戴跪着念玫瑰经的美丽照片，你知道，这就是它的来源。
- start: 1953.365
  end: 1954.886
  speaker: barron
  en: And she knew that.
  zh: 她知道这一点。
- start: 1954.986
  end: 1961.108
  speaker: barron
  en: She knew that the care of the poor, in the right sense, flows from right praise.
  zh: 她知道对穷人的关怀，从正确的意义上说，是从正确的赞美流出的。
- start: 1961.188
  end: 1967.55
  speaker: barron
  en: If you miss out on the right praise, that care of the poor will devolve into something that it shouldn't be.
  zh: 如果你错过了正确的赞美，对穷人的关怀就会退化成不该有的样子。
- start: 1968.53
  end: 1975.712
  speaker: barron
  en: So when you're leading your people in right praise, that's the source and summit; that's the mountain from which the rivers flow forth.
  zh: 所以当你带领你的会众进行正确的赞美时，那就是源头和顶峰；那就是河流流出的山。
- start: 1975.712
  end: 1981.85
  speaker: barron
  en: All of that—that's Adam's. Let's see, one last thing here.
  zh: 这一切——那是亚当的。让我们看看，这里还有最后一件事。
- start: 1981.85
  end: 1983.73
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm going on and on.
  zh: 我一直在说个不停。
- start: 1984.931
  end: 1989.073
  speaker: barron
  en: We read the decretals of the Council of Trent on original sin and salvation.
  zh: 我们读了特伦特会议关于原罪和救恩的法令。
- start: 1989.073
  end: 1990.293
  speaker: barron
  en: I think they're so good.
  zh: 我认为它们非常好。
- start: 1990.293
  end: 1997.316
  speaker: barron
  en: The Tridentine Fathers read the Reformers very carefully, and they nodded to them vigorously.
  zh: 特伦特的教父们非常仔细地阅读了改革者们的著作，他们强烈地认同他们。
- start: 1997.477
  end: 2002.199
  speaker: barron
  en: They accepted a lot of things from Luther and Calvin; they knew the Reformers very well.
  zh: 他们接受了路德和加尔文的很多观点；他们非常了解这些改革者。
- start: 2002.199
  end: 2005.3
  speaker: barron
  en: And then they pulled back appropriately and laid out.
  zh: 然后他们适当地退后并阐述。
- start: 2005.44
  end: 2015.21
  speaker: barron
  en: But one of the decretals says that the two great effects of original sin are the loss of holiness and the loss of justice.
  zh: 但其中一个法令说，原罪的两个重大影响是失去圣洁和失去公义。
- start: 2015.59
  end: 2017.231
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, that's what I've been talking about.
  zh: 好，这就是我一直在谈论的。
- start: 2017.872
  end: 2023.616
  speaker: barron
  en: Holiness is related very much to the word wholeness, right?
  zh: 圣洁与完整这个词很有关系，对吧？
- start: 2024.777
  end: 2031.162
  speaker: barron
  en: In the sense of, like, you know, sanctity and health are related.
  zh: 就像，你知道，圣洁和健康是相关的。
- start: 2031.162
  end: 2038.347
  speaker: barron
  en: In the great languages, to be holy is to be together; it's to be integrated.
  zh: 在伟大的语言中，圣洁就是合一；就是整合。
- start: 2039.229
  end: 2041.15
  speaker: barron
  en: You hang together as one.
  zh: 你作为一个整体凝聚在一起。
- start: 2041.15
  end: 2047.333
  speaker: barron
  en: That's when you're holy—linked to God, you hold together.
  zh: 这就是当你圣洁时的状态——与神连接，你保持合一。
- start: 2047.613
  end: 2053.415
  speaker: barron
  en: Original sin is the loss of that, and then concomitantly, the loss of justice.
  zh: 原罪就是失去了这个，随之而来的是失去公义。
- start: 2053.636
  end: 2057.597
  speaker: barron
  en: What's that but the right relationships that obtain around you?
  zh: 这不就是你周围应有的正确关系吗？
- start: 2057.738
  end: 2062.0
  speaker: barron
  en: Distributive justice and so on and so forth—it's the way we relate to the world around us.
  zh: 分配正义等等——这是我们与周围世界建立关系的方式。
- start: 2062.86
  end: 2065.541
  speaker: barron
  en: Original sin, we've lost both those things.
  zh: 原罪使我们失去了这两样东西。
- start: 2067.462
  end: 2069.103
  speaker: barron
  en: What's the history of salvation?
  zh: 什么是救恩历史？
- start: 2069.909
  end: 2071.87
  speaker: barron
  en: God's rescue operation, right?
  zh: 是神的拯救行动，对吧？
- start: 2071.87
  end: 2082.076
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the whole story, culminating in the cross, as God's great rescue operation to restore and then even to elevate His original design.
  zh: 这就是整个故事，在十字架上达到高潮，作为神伟大的拯救行动，恢复并提升他原初的设计。
- start: 2082.476
  end: 2085.898
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, with that, let me look at Noah.
  zh: 好，说到这里，让我来看看挪亚。
- start: 2090.901
  end: 2092.041
  speaker: barron
  en: Kids love this story, don't they?
  zh: 孩子们喜欢这个故事，不是吗？
- start: 2092.041
  end: 2094.983
  speaker: barron
  en: And I think it's not just because it's, you know, cute little animals and stuff.
  zh: 我认为这不仅仅是因为，你知道，可爱的小动物之类的。
- start: 2094.983
  end: 2102.33
  speaker: barron
  en: I think there's a deep instinct around the story of Noah and the ark that human beings get.
  zh: 我认为人类对挪亚和方舟的故事有一种深层的本能理解。
- start: 2103.411
  end: 2106.714
  speaker: barron
  en: It's a prime example of this rescue operation idea.
  zh: 这是拯救行动这个概念的一个典型例子。
- start: 2107.535
  end: 2110.097
  speaker: barron
  en: So here's how it begins; it's very interesting.
  zh: 所以这是它的开始；很有意思。
- start: 2110.097
  end: 2115.04
  speaker: barron
  en: It's in chapters 6 through 10 of Genesis, so it covers a lot of ground in the book of Genesis.
  zh: 它在创世记第6章到第10章，所以在创世记中占了很大篇幅。
- start: 2116.341
  end: 2126.509
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Here''s how it begins: The Lord saw that the wickedness of humankind was great on the earth and that every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually.'
  zh: 这是它的开始：耶和华见人在地上罪恶很大，终日所思想的尽都是恶。
- start: 2126.869
  end: 2128.369
  speaker: barron
  en: That's pretty dire.
  zh: 这相当可怕。
- start: 2129.27
  end: 2138.613
  speaker: barron
  en: But this is the spread of the original suspension of orthodoxy, if I can put it that way.
  zh: 但这是原初正统信仰暂停的蔓延，如果我可以这样说的话。
- start: 2138.613
  end: 2147.456
  speaker: barron
  en: 'This is what''s happened from bad praise: it''s radiated out so thoroughly into all hearts and into all relationships and so on.'
  zh: 这就是错误赞美所导致的：它彻底辐射到所有人的心中和所有关系中。
- start: 2149.417
  end: 2154.279
  speaker: barron
  en: It's awakened, we're told, God's desire to wipe out the human race.
  zh: 我们被告知，这唤醒了神除灭人类的意愿。
- start: 2154.639
  end: 2159.142
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, don't listen to Bill Maher and people like that who have no idea how to read the Bible.
  zh: 现在，不要听比尔·马赫和那些不懂得如何读圣经的人的话。
- start: 2159.142
  end: 2161.624
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, thank God the new atheists are fading.
  zh: 你知道，感谢神新无神论者正在消退。
- start: 2161.624
  end: 2170.51
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, they did have an impact 20-some years ago, and they were good evangelists, by the way—Sam Harris and Dawkins and those people and Bill Maher.
  zh: 我是说，他们在二十多年前确实产生了影响，顺便说一句，他们是好传道者——萨姆·哈里斯和道金斯还有那些人和比尔·马赫。
- start: 2170.671
  end: 2175.394
  speaker: barron
  en: They evangelized young people because I hear their language coming back every day at me.
  zh: 他们向年轻人传教，因为我每天都听到他们的语言被人对我重复。
- start: 2175.394
  end: 2177.976
  speaker: barron
  en: But these people have no idea how to read the Bible.
  zh: 但这些人根本不知道如何读圣经。
- start: 2177.976
  end: 2180.938
  speaker: barron
  en: They read it in the most ham-handed, superficial way.
  zh: 他们以最笨拙、肤浅的方式来读它。
- start: 2181.4
  end: 2183.081
  speaker: barron
  en: How do you read the wrath of God?
  zh: 你如何理解神的愤怒？
- start: 2183.081
  end: 2190.783
  speaker: barron
  en: Which, by the way, you can't read any two pages of the Bible, Old Testament or New, without coming across the wrath of God.
  zh: 顺便说一句，你读圣经任何两页，无论旧约还是新约，都会遇到神的愤怒。
- start: 2190.924
  end: 2196.566
  speaker: barron
  en: It seems to me to say that, Oh, it's almost sequestered in these weird old texts of the Old Testament, is nonsense.
  zh: 在我看来，说什么「哦，这几乎只局限在旧约那些奇怪的古老经文中」是荒谬的。
- start: 2196.566
  end: 2201.308
  speaker: barron
  en: It runs right through the Bible because we have this weird, capricious God.
  zh: 它贯穿整本圣经，不是因为我们有一位古怪、反复无常的神。
- start: 2201.308
  end: 2213.622
  speaker: barron
  en: It wasn't that Richard Dawkins said God is like King Lear in Act 5, you know, who's raging, and except that King Lear is less insane.
  zh: 理查德·道金斯说神就像第五幕中的李尔王，你知道，在发怒，只不过李尔王没那么疯狂，这是不对的。
- start: 2213.622
  end: 2218.345
  speaker: barron
  en: That was Richard Dawkins—that's how not to read the Bible.
  zh: 那是理查德·道金斯的说法——那是不该如何读圣经的例子。
- start: 2218.766
  end: 2220.487
  speaker: barron
  en: We're not talking about that.
  zh: 我们不是在谈论那个。
- start: 2220.747
  end: 2224.07
  speaker: barron
  en: When the Bible mentions the wrath of God, what is it?
  zh: 当圣经提到神的愤怒时，它是什么？
- start: 2224.07
  end: 2229.173
  speaker: barron
  en: God doesn't fall in and out of snits; He doesn't fall in and out of emotional states.
  zh: 神不会时而生气时而不生气；他不会在情绪状态中起伏。
- start: 2229.173
  end: 2230.534
  speaker: barron
  en: Read Aquinas on that.
  zh: 读读阿奎那关于这点的论述。
- start: 2231.431
  end: 2233.432
  speaker: barron
  en: God is love; that's all God knows how to do.
  zh: 神就是爱；这是神唯一知道如何做的事。
- start: 2233.432
  end: 2234.833
  speaker: barron
  en: That's all God is.
  zh: 这就是神的全部。
- start: 2234.833
  end: 2238.935
  speaker: barron
  en: Right through that, that's all God is; that's all God can do is love.
  zh: 贯穿始终，这就是神的全部；爱是神唯一能做的事。
- start: 2238.935
  end: 2241.556
  speaker: barron
  en: When Aquinas says, for example, Can God sin?
  zh: 比如当阿奎那问，神能犯罪吗？
- start: 2241.556
  end: 2245.418
  speaker: barron
  en: and the answer is no, that's a very important intuition.
  zh: 答案是不能，这是一个很重要的直觉。
- start: 2245.539
  end: 2246.839
  speaker: barron
  en: What do you mean He can't sin?
  zh: 你说他不能犯罪是什么意思？
- start: 2246.839
  end: 2248.52
  speaker: barron
  en: I can sin.
  zh: 我能犯罪。
- start: 2248.52
  end: 2249.941
  speaker: barron
  en: Isn't God's freedom greater than mine?
  zh: 神的自由不是比我的更大吗？
- start: 2249.941
  end: 2252.322
  speaker: barron
  en: And Aquinas says, No, of course God can't sin.
  zh: 而阿奎那说，不，神当然不能犯罪。
- start: 2252.322
  end: 2254.584
  speaker: barron
  en: God can't be at odds with His own nature.
  zh: 神不能与他自己的本性相违背。
- start: 2254.584
  end: 2261.718
  speaker: barron
  en: So don't think of this as, Oh, God has become wrathful, and oh my goodness, His mind has changed, and now He's trying to...
  zh: 所以不要这样想，哦，神变得愤怒了，哦天啊，他改变主意了，现在他试图……
- start: 2261.718
  end: 2262.878
  speaker: barron
  en: No, no.
  zh: 不，不。
- start: 2262.878
  end: 2269.061
  speaker: barron
  en: 'The wrath of God—think of it this way: God''s passion to set things right.'
  zh: 神的愤怒——这样想：这是神纠正一切的热忱。
- start: 2270.341
  end: 2273.263
  speaker: barron
  en: If God is love, that means willing the good of the other.
  zh: 如果神就是爱，那就意味着愿意他人得到美善。
- start: 2273.263
  end: 2274.503
  speaker: barron
  en: What does God hate?
  zh: 神恨什么？
- start: 2274.503
  end: 2279.165
  speaker: barron
  en: He hates sin; He hates dysfunction; He hates what's happened to us.
  zh: 他恨罪；他恨失序；他恨发生在我们身上的事。
- start: 2279.385
  end: 2284.887
  speaker: barron
  en: And He has a passion, if I can use that metaphorical language, He has a passion to set it right.
  zh: 而且他有一种热忱，如果我可以用这种比喻性的语言，他有一种纠正它的热忱。
- start: 2284.887
  end: 2287.368
  speaker: barron
  en: That's God's anger; that's God's wrath.
  zh: 这就是神的怒气；这就是神的愤怒。
- start: 2288.82
  end: 2289.96
  speaker: barron
  en: You see how it comes again?
  zh: 你看到它是如何再次出现的吗？
- start: 2289.96
  end: 2292.481
  speaker: barron
  en: I keep pointing to a climax there.
  zh: 我一直在指向那个高潮。
- start: 2292.862
  end: 2298.684
  speaker: barron
  en: When we speak of God pouring out His wrath on sin, yes, yes, yes, that's right.
  zh: 当我们说神倾倒他的愤怒在罪上，是的，是的，是的，那是对的。
- start: 2299.144
  end: 2305.287
  speaker: barron
  en: And so this thing about God's desire to wipe out the human race—it's God's passion to set things right.
  zh: 所以关于神想要除灭人类这件事——这是神纠正一切的热忱。
- start: 2305.287
  end: 2308.048
  speaker: barron
  en: So what does He do?
  zh: 那么他做什么？
- start: 2308.528
  end: 2314.03
  speaker: barron
  en: He sends a rescue operation centered around Noah.
  zh: 他发起了一个以挪亚为中心的拯救行动。
- start: 2314.03
  end: 2322.112
  speaker: barron
  en: 'And here''s the way Noah is described: Noah found favor in the sight of the Lord, and he walked with God.'
  zh: 这就是对挪亚的描述：挪亚在耶和华眼前蒙恩，与神同行。
- start: 2322.112
  end: 2325.214
  speaker: barron
  en: That's a very cool image.
  zh: 这是一个很美的画面。
- start: 2325.735
  end: 2332.962
  speaker: barron
  en: Remember in the Adam and Eve story, we hear about Adam walking with the Lord in the cool of the evening?
  zh: 记得在亚当和夏娃的故事中，我们听到亚当在傍晚凉爽时分与耶和华同行？
- start: 2333.683
  end: 2339.568
  speaker: barron
  en: So the best time of day for desert people—the cool of the evening—and Adam walking with God.
  zh: 所以对沙漠地区的人来说是一天中最好的时候——傍晚的凉爽——亚当与神同行。
- start: 2339.568
  end: 2350.416
  speaker: barron
  en: We know when you walk with somebody—I'm a really fast walker, so I tend to walk ahead of people—but if you want to talk to somebody, you have to fall in step with them.
  zh: 我们知道当你和某人一起走路时——我是个走得很快的人，所以我倾向于走在人前——但如果你想和某人交谈，你必须跟上他们的步伐。
- start: 2350.716
  end: 2358.858
  speaker: barron
  en: You have to kind of get in their rhythm, and then there's a kind of choreography that goes into a walking conversation.
  zh: 你必须进入他们的节奏，然后边走边谈就形成了一种舞蹈般的配合。
- start: 2359.458
  end: 2368.44
  speaker: barron
  en: So Adam walking with the Lord is the human will, body, mind, everything in line with the divine will.
  zh: 所以亚当与耶和华同行就是人的意志、身体、心智，一切都与神的旨意保持一致。
- start: 2369.893
  end: 2374.474
  speaker: barron
  en: Noah, amidst all this chaos, knows how to walk with the Lord.
  zh: 挪亚在这一切混乱中，知道如何与耶和华同行。
- start: 2375.394
  end: 2388.017
  speaker: barron
  en: 'See, you guys, that''s a big part of your training here: learning that choreography, learning how to move with the Lord and walk with Him, that you might teach your people how to do it, right?'
  zh: 看，你们这些人，这是你们在这里训练的重要部分：学习那种配合，学习如何与主同行，这样你们才能教导你们的会众如何做到这一点，对吧？
- start: 2388.237
  end: 2393.738
  speaker: barron
  en: If you're out of step, you're out of step with the Lord; you're not going to do any good to the people around you.
  zh: 如果你步调不一致，你就与主步调不一致；你就不能给周围的人带来任何好处。
- start: 2395.299
  end: 2396.719
  speaker: barron
  en: What does God tell him to do?
  zh: 神告诉他做什么？
- start: 2397.541
  end: 2403.546
  speaker: barron
  en: Make yourself an ark of cypress wood; make rooms in the ark; cover it inside and out with pitch.
  zh: 你要用歌斐木造一只方舟，方舟里要有房间，里外抹上松香。
- start: 2404.267
  end: 2407.229
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, remember the beginning of the creation story?
  zh: 好，记得创造故事的开始吗？
- start: 2407.29
  end: 2412.094
  speaker: barron
  en: There's that lovely Hebrew phrase, the tohu wabohu, right?
  zh: 有那个优美的希伯来语短语，tohu wabohu，对吧？
- start: 2412.094
  end: 2416.918
  speaker: barron
  en: The primal chaos, and the Spirit of God hovers over the waters.
  zh: 原初的混沌，神的灵运行在水面上。
- start: 2416.918
  end: 2419.62
  speaker: barron
  en: That sets the tone for the whole Bible, in a way.
  zh: 从某种意义上说，这为整本圣经定下了基调。
- start: 2419.62
  end: 2432.578
  speaker: barron
  en: The tohu wabohu would stand for all of that which is opposed to God's creative intentions—it's sin and dysfunction and stupidity and violence and all the things that stand opposed to God.
  zh: tohu wabohu代表了所有与神创造意图相对的东西——就是罪恶、失序、愚昧、暴力和所有与神对立的事物。
- start: 2432.578
  end: 2439.182
  speaker: barron
  en: But God's Spirit has lordship over all that, and God brings order from the chaos.
  zh: 但神的灵掌管这一切，神从混沌中带来秩序。
- start: 2440.123
  end: 2441.864
  speaker: barron
  en: What's the flood of Noah?
  zh: 挪亚的洪水是什么？
- start: 2443.005
  end: 2450.43
  speaker: barron
  en: The tohu vabohu is back; the primal chaos comes rushing back.
  zh: tohu vabohu又回来了；原初的混沌汹涌而回。
- start: 2450.43
  end: 2450.99
  speaker: barron
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 2450.99
  end: 2454.032
  speaker: barron
  en: Because of bad praise, because of our sins.
  zh: 因为错误的赞美，因为我们的罪。
- start: 2457.185
  end: 2465.709
  speaker: barron
  en: God says, Build an ark; build a boat where you and your family can live and survive during this time of flood.
  zh: 神说，造一只方舟；造一只船，让你和你的家人在这洪水期间可以生存。
- start: 2466.849
  end: 2477.034
  speaker: barron
  en: More to it, Noah, I want you to bring representative samples of my ordered creation onto this ark with you, that they might survive.
  zh: 不仅如此，挪亚，我要你把我有序创造的代表样本带到方舟上，使它们得以存活。
- start: 2478.394
  end: 2482.656
  speaker: barron
  en: Pitch inside and out, lest the water get in.
  zh: 里外抹上松香，免得水渗进来。
- start: 2483.357
  end: 2495.798
  speaker: barron
  en: You've got to build a place that's a place of safety while the floodwaters surge, where—listen—where a remnant of my good order is preserved.
  zh: 你必须建造一个安全的地方，当洪水涌来时——听着——在那里保存我良善秩序的余民。
- start: 2497.119
  end: 2498.7
  speaker: barron
  en: And now there's Noah's Ark.
  zh: 这就是挪亚方舟。
- start: 2499.881
  end: 2507.146
  speaker: barron
  en: Do you see now why the Church Fathers consistently read Noah's Ark as a symbol of the Church?
  zh: 你现在明白为什么教父们一直把挪亚方舟解读为教会的象征吗？
- start: 2508.107
  end: 2511.249
  speaker: barron
  en: Now look where we are, and it's good here.
  zh: 现在看看我们在哪里，这里很好。
- start: 2511.95
  end: 2515.832
  speaker: barron
  en: All churches, in a way, are meant to be Noah's Arks.
  zh: 从某种意义上说，所有的教会都应该是挪亚方舟。
- start: 2517.017
  end: 2519.938
  speaker: barron
  en: I saw this when I was a student over in France many years ago.
  zh: 多年前我在法国当学生时就看到了这一点。
- start: 2519.938
  end: 2523.539
  speaker: barron
  en: I lived in Paris, and I used to give tours at Notre Dame Cathedral.
  zh: 我住在巴黎，经常在巴黎圣母院带团参观。
- start: 2523.539
  end: 2528.321
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's why it broke my heart when it was on fire five years ago now.
  zh: 这就是为什么五年前它着火时让我心碎。
- start: 2529.121
  end: 2536.864
  speaker: barron
  en: But Notre Dame, you know, is on the Île de la Cité in the middle of the Seine, so it's got kind of a naval, you know, sense.
  zh: 但你知道，巴黎圣母院位于塞纳河中的西岱岛上，所以它有种航海的感觉。
- start: 2536.864
  end: 2542.746
  speaker: barron
  en: And then the flying buttresses coming out the side look for all the world like oars coming out the side of the ship.
  zh: 而且从侧面伸出的飞扶壁看起来就像船侧伸出的桨。
- start: 2543.394
  end: 2549.436
  speaker: barron
  en: When you get up on top of Notre Dame and you look back, you feel like you're the captain of a boat.
  zh: 当你站在巴黎圣母院顶上回望时，你会感觉自己像是一艘船的船长。
- start: 2549.476
  end: 2555.018
  speaker: barron
  en: The central section, of course, of a church is called the nave, from the Latin navis, meaning ship.
  zh: 当然，教堂的中央部分被称为中殿，来自拉丁语navis，意思是船。
- start: 2555.378
  end: 2573.204
  speaker: barron
  en: 'And so that''s the idea: the Church—not just the building, but the Church—is a place of safety where, in the midst of a chaotic world, something of God''s good order is preserved.'
  zh: 所以这就是这个概念：教会——不仅仅是建筑物，而是教会本身——是一个安全的地方，在混乱的世界中，神的良善秩序得以保存。
- start: 2576.741
  end: 2581.502
  speaker: barron
  en: Notice during the Mass, we gather in church primarily for the Mass.
  zh: 注意在弥撒期间，我们主要是为了弥撒聚集在教堂里。
- start: 2582.182
  end: 2583.883
  speaker: barron
  en: We come from all these different backgrounds.
  zh: 我们来自各种不同的背景。
- start: 2583.883
  end: 2595.025
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Think of a typical parish: different educational backgrounds, different ethnicities, different genders, etc. We come together, and we sing together.'
  zh: 想想一个典型的堂区：不同的教育背景，不同的种族，不同的性别等。我们聚在一起，一起唱歌。
- start: 2595.025
  end: 2605.007
  speaker: barron
  en: I don't know whether it's funny about singing—most of us have bad voices—but somehow when we sing together, we don't sound that bad, right?
  zh: 我不知道唱歌这事是不是很有趣——我们大多数人的声音都不好听——但不知怎的，当我们一起唱时，听起来并不那么糟，对吧？
- start: 2605.089
  end: 2612.172
  speaker: barron
  en: But it doesn't apply like if you have five bad basketball players and you put them all together, they don't become a good basketball team.
  zh: 但这和篮球不一样，如果你有五个打得不好的球员放在一起，他们不会变成一支好球队。
- start: 2612.632
  end: 2614.293
  speaker: barron
  en: But somehow it's true, isn't it?
  zh: 但不知怎的这是真的，不是吗？
- start: 2614.293
  end: 2617.474
  speaker: barron
  en: Somehow when we all sing together, we sound pretty good.
  zh: 不知怎的当我们一起唱歌时，听起来很好。
- start: 2619.695
  end: 2625.298
  speaker: barron
  en: Here we are within the boat, and we're singing in harmony together.
  zh: 我们在船内，一起和谐地歌唱。
- start: 2625.618
  end: 2628.179
  speaker: barron
  en: We're gesturing in harmony together.
  zh: 我们一起和谐地做着手势。
- start: 2628.219
  end: 2634.982
  speaker: barron
  en: Up the aisle comes this orderly procession with people in decorative robes and so on.
  zh: 穿着礼袍的人们沿着过道有序地列队前进。
- start: 2635.849
  end: 2642.474
  speaker: barron
  en: The Mass itself—and I lived through the '70s; I'm not saying that—but it is a kind of liturgical dance.
  zh: 弥撒本身——我经历过70年代；我不是说那个——但它是一种礼仪舞蹈。
- start: 2642.474
  end: 2653.282
  speaker: barron
  en: It's a kind of set of gestures and movements and so on—not the '70s liturgical dance—but it's a very interesting link there, actually, between the Mass as we do it now.
  zh: 它是一系列姿势和动作——不是70年代的礼仪舞蹈——但实际上，这与我们现在举行的弥撒之间有一个很有趣的联系。
- start: 2653.282
  end: 2657.245
  speaker: barron
  en: Go back then through the Byzantine and go through the Byzantine to the Temple.
  zh: 回溯到拜占庭时期，再通过拜占庭回溯到圣殿。
- start: 2657.245
  end: 2660.427
  speaker: barron
  en: Read Margaret Barker on this; she's the one that's done all that research.
  zh: 读读玛格丽特·巴克关于这方面的研究；她做了所有这些研究。
- start: 2661.007
  end: 2669.446
  speaker: barron
  en: The temple worship in Jerusalem—the movements and gestures and so on of the priests—were meant to imitate David's dance.
  zh: 耶路撒冷圣殿的敬拜——祭司们的动作和手势等——是为了模仿大卫的舞蹈。
- start: 2669.446
  end: 2673.387
  speaker: barron
  en: So David dancing before the Ark of the Covenant—see what that is?
  zh: 所以大卫在约柜前跳舞——明白这是什么吗？
- start: 2673.387
  end: 2678.708
  speaker: barron
  en: That's a recovery of Adam; that's a recovery of moving in harmony with the Lord, right?
  zh: 那是对亚当的恢复；是对与主和谐同行的恢复，对吧？
- start: 2678.708
  end: 2685.31
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, David's dance is imitated by the priests in the temple, which then comes up through the Byzantine into the Roman.
  zh: 大卫的舞蹈被圣殿中的祭司模仿，然后通过拜占庭传入罗马。
- start: 2685.31
  end: 2689.951
  speaker: barron
  en: And so even now, we do a kind of dance in the presence of the Lord.
  zh: 所以即使现在，我们在主面前也在做一种舞蹈。
- start: 2690.712
  end: 2691.912
  speaker: barron
  en: What else do we do?
  zh: 我们还做什么？
- start: 2692.549
  end: 2694.289
  speaker: barron
  en: We listen to the Word of God.
  zh: 我们聆听神的道。
- start: 2694.31
  end: 2699.511
  speaker: barron
  en: On this holy ark, there are so many stupid voices out there today, right?
  zh: 在这圣洁的方舟上，今天外面有那么多愚蠢的声音，对吧？
- start: 2699.511
  end: 2708.254
  speaker: barron
  en: They've become monstrously amplified over the course of my lifetime because of social media—the chattering of demons.
  zh: 在我的一生中，由于社交媒体的缘故，这些声音被可怕地放大了——恶魔的喋喋不休。
- start: 2708.375
  end: 2712.216
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Jordan Peterson used that line, and I think it''s dead right: the chattering of demons.'
  zh: 乔丹·彼得森用过这句话，我觉得完全正确：恶魔的喋喋不休。
- start: 2712.796
  end: 2718.958
  speaker: barron
  en: All the voices we hear—young people especially—they're traumatized by them.
  zh: 我们听到的所有声音——特别是年轻人——都被它们所困扰。
- start: 2718.958
  end: 2721.019
  speaker: barron
  en: I think you see evidence of it every day.
  zh: 我想你每天都能看到这方面的证据。
- start: 2721.588
  end: 2723.049
  speaker: barron
  en: The voices, the voices.
  zh: 这些声音，这些声音。
- start: 2723.049
  end: 2725.531
  speaker: barron
  en: Go on Twitter; you want to hear the chattering of demons?
  zh: 去推特看看；你想听恶魔的喋喋不休吗？
- start: 2725.531
  end: 2726.951
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm dead serious.
  zh: 我说的是实话。
- start: 2727.112
  end: 2730.433
  speaker: barron
  en: Go on Twitter or X now, anytime of the day or night.
  zh: 现在去推特或X看看，无论白天黑夜。
- start: 2732.695
  end: 2740.6
  speaker: barron
  en: We come here onto this sacred boat, and we silence those stupid voices, and we listen to the voice of the Lord.
  zh: 我们来到这艘圣船上，让那些愚蠢的声音安静下来，聆听主的声音。
- start: 2744.843
  end: 2753.637
  speaker: barron
  en: We come forward in an ordered way to receive the Body and Blood of Christ, not fed by other worldly goods and values.
  zh: 我们有序地上前领受基督的身体和宝血，而不是被其他世俗的物品和价值所喂养。
- start: 2753.637
  end: 2756.339
  speaker: barron
  en: We come to feed on heavenly food.
  zh: 我们来领受天上的食物。
- start: 2758.281
  end: 2767.348
  speaker: barron
  en: Those who know Mundelein Seminary, where I was for many years, the main chapel is a glorious building, and it's got a choir loft right in the back.
  zh: 那些了解蒙德莱恩修院的人都知道，我在那里待了很多年，主礼拜堂是一座荣耀的建筑，后面有一个唱诗班席位。
- start: 2767.729
  end: 2769.591
  speaker: barron
  en: It must have been an ordination clergy many years ago.
  zh: 那一定是很多年前的一次神职授任。
- start: 2769.591
  end: 2772.733
  speaker: barron
  en: I was sent up to the loft to distribute communion, right?
  zh: 我被派到阁楼上分发圣餐，对吧？
- start: 2773.054
  end: 2779.613
  speaker: barron
  en: And at that moment, I turned around, and I could see—and I'm looking back—there's the altar and a big sanctuary.
  zh: 在那一刻，我转过身来，我能看到——我回头看——那里有祭坛和一个大圣所。
- start: 2779.613
  end: 2787.496
  speaker: barron
  en: There were a lot of priests and bishops up there, and they were all coming in an ordered harmony to receive the Body of the Lord and the Blood of the Lord.
  zh: 那里有许多神父和主教，他们都在有序和谐地前来领受主的身体和宝血。
- start: 2787.616
  end: 2799.219
  speaker: barron
  en: And then the people were coming in an ordered way up the main aisle, and it was like this gorgeous display of ordered harmony all around the central place of the Eucharist.
  zh: 然后人们有序地沿着主通道上前，这就像是在圣餐的中心位置周围展现出美丽的有序和谐。
- start: 2799.26
  end: 2805.516
  speaker: barron
  en: And in the meantime, glorious music was being played, and I remember thinking, Yeah, this is it.
  zh: 同时，荣耀的音乐在演奏，我记得我在想，是的，就是这个。
- start: 2805.516
  end: 2807.697
  speaker: barron
  en: This is what the Mass is meant to be.
  zh: 这就是弥撒应该有的样子。
- start: 2807.777
  end: 2813.858
  speaker: barron
  en: It's the recovery of Eden; it's the recovery of the harmony born of right praise.
  zh: 这是对伊甸园的恢复；是对源于正确赞美的和谐的恢复。
- start: 2814.399
  end: 2816.399
  speaker: barron
  en: That's what the Mass is supposed to be.
  zh: 这就是弥撒应该成为的样子。
- start: 2817.399
  end: 2826.041
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Think of that, brothers: again, 6:30 Mass on Tuesday morning, but you invited people onto Noah''s Ark to find a place of safety.'
  zh: 想想这个，弟兄们：再说一遍，星期二早上6:30的弥撒，但你邀请人们登上挪亚方舟找到安全的地方。
- start: 2826.102
  end: 2827.902
  speaker: barron
  en: Now think again of the animals.
  zh: 现在再想想那些动物。
- start: 2828.539
  end: 2829.599
  speaker: barron
  en: So it's not just about you.
  zh: 所以这不仅仅关乎你。
- start: 2829.599
  end: 2832.301
  speaker: barron
  en: The Bible is never individualistic; it's just not.
  zh: 圣经从来不是个人主义的；就是不是。
- start: 2832.301
  end: 2834.762
  speaker: barron
  en: That's a modern hang-up, a Western hang-up.
  zh: 那是现代的执着，西方的执着。
- start: 2834.762
  end: 2836.622
  speaker: barron
  en: The Bible is not individualistic.
  zh: 圣经不是个人主义的。
- start: 2836.622
  end: 2839.804
  speaker: barron
  en: Salvation is always cosmic, right?
  zh: 救恩总是宇宙性的，对吧？
- start: 2839.804
  end: 2844.245
  speaker: barron
  en: So my salvation is tied up with the salvation of the world.
  zh: 所以我的救恩与世界的救恩紧密相连。
- start: 2844.345
  end: 2851.308
  speaker: barron
  en: The animals coming on the Ark represent now the coming to right order of the whole universe.
  zh: 登上方舟的动物现在代表着整个宇宙回归正确秩序。
- start: 2852.769
  end: 2858.511
  speaker: barron
  en: There's a line from Merton's *Seven-Story Mountain*, which is a book that had a big impact on me when I was a young guy.
  zh: 默顿的《七重山》中有一句话，这本书在我年轻时对我影响很大。
- start: 2859.723
  end: 2863.344
  speaker: barron
  en: Merton comes for the first time to Gethsemane Abbey for a retreat.
  zh: 默顿第一次来到革责玛尼修道院避静。
- start: 2863.344
  end: 2869.786
  speaker: barron
  en: So before he enters, he comes for a retreat, and he has this kind of ecstatic week there among the Trappists.
  zh: 所以在他入会之前，他来这里避静，在特拉普派修士中度过了令人心醉神迷的一周。
- start: 2870.286
  end: 2881.51
  speaker: barron
  en: He writes in his diary afterwards, I've found the place; I found the still point around which the whole country revolves without knowing it.
  zh: 他后来在日记中写道，我找到了这个地方；我找到了整个国家在不知不觉中围绕其旋转的静止点。
- start: 2881.93
  end: 2886.311
  speaker: barron
  en: And he was naming what I'm talking about; he's naming exactly what I'm talking about.
  zh: 他说的正是我在谈论的；他说的正是我要表达的。
- start: 2886.55
  end: 2889.551
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the liturgy; that's what happens on Noah's Ark.
  zh: 这就是礼仪；这就是在挪亚方舟上发生的事。
- start: 2889.551
  end: 2894.374
  speaker: barron
  en: It's the still point around which the whole world revolves without knowing it.
  zh: 这是整个世界在不知不觉中围绕其旋转的静止点。
- start: 2894.834
  end: 2898.876
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, let me make a couple more personal applications for you guys.
  zh: 好，让我为你们再做几个个人应用。
- start: 2900.937
  end: 2904.639
  speaker: barron
  en: Noah's told to store lots of food on the Ark.
  zh: 挪亚被告知要在方舟上储存大量食物。
- start: 2904.639
  end: 2905.279
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, no kidding!
  zh: 这当然了！
- start: 2905.279
  end: 2908.081
  speaker: barron
  en: He's got to feed himself and his family and all the animals, right?
  zh: 他必须要养活自己和家人还有所有的动物，对吧？
- start: 2908.081
  end: 2911.282
  speaker: barron
  en: There's got to be a lot of good food on the Ark.
  zh: 方舟上必须有很多好食物。
- start: 2913.206
  end: 2919.913
  speaker: barron
  en: Why are you studying theology and spirituality and liturgy and psychology and studying the culture?
  zh: 为什么你们要研究神学、灵修学、礼仪学、心理学和研究文化？
- start: 2919.913
  end: 2921.554
  speaker: barron
  en: Why are you doing all that here?
  zh: 为什么你们在这里做这一切？
- start: 2922.535
  end: 2924.116
  speaker: barron
  en: You're storing up food.
  zh: 你们在储存食物。
- start: 2924.677
  end: 2926.559
  speaker: barron
  en: You're storing up food.
  zh: 你们在储存食物。
- start: 2926.719
  end: 2937.189
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, there are people in this room old enough to know—some of you maybe are too young—trust me, the tohu vabohu will come rushing into your life at some point.
  zh: 现在，这个房间里有些人年纪够大，知道这一点——你们有些人可能太年轻——相信我，tohu vabohu总有一天会冲入你们的生命。
- start: 2937.512
  end: 2941.235
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Think of Noah''s Ark, where it''s purely described: the water''s coming from the heavens.'
  zh: 想想对挪亚方舟的描述：水从天而降。
- start: 2941.235
  end: 2943.737
  speaker: barron
  en: Yep, it's also coming up out of the earth.
  zh: 是的，它也从地里涌出。
- start: 2943.737
  end: 2945.918
  speaker: barron
  en: It's coming from every direction.
  zh: 它从各个方向而来。
- start: 2946.099
  end: 2947.96
  speaker: barron
  en: But we all face little trials every day.
  zh: 但我们每天都面对小小的考验。
- start: 2947.96
  end: 2968.989
  speaker: barron
  en: 'But trust me, in your life, a moment will come—or maybe several—when the tohu vabohu comes rushing in: a tragedy, a death in the family, your own sickness, a deep failure, a crisis in the culture, a crisis of vocation—any and all of those things.'
  zh: 但相信我，在你的生命中，总会有那么一刻——也许是几次——当tohu vabohu涌入时：一场悲剧，家人去世，自己生病，重大失败，文化危机，职业危机——这些事情中的任何一个或全部。
- start: 2970.05
  end: 2971.07
  speaker: barron
  en: What do you do?
  zh: 你会怎么做？
- start: 2972.011
  end: 2975.373
  speaker: barron
  en: What do you do when the tohu vabohu comes rushing in?
  zh: 当tohu vabohu涌入时你会怎么做？
- start: 2975.834
  end: 2976.435
  speaker: barron
  en: Oh, theology?
  zh: 哦，神学？
- start: 2976.435
  end: 2976.915
  speaker: barron
  en: Who needs that?
  zh: 谁需要那个？
- start: 2976.915
  end: 2977.535
  speaker: barron
  en: Spirituality?
  zh: 灵修？
- start: 2977.535
  end: 2978.496
  speaker: barron
  en: I did that in seminary.
  zh: 我在修院时做过了。
- start: 2978.496
  end: 2979.417
  speaker: barron
  en: And prayer?
  zh: 还有祈祷？
- start: 2979.417
  end: 2980.497
  speaker: barron
  en: I might waste my time with that.
  zh: 我可能在那上面浪费时间。
- start: 2980.497
  end: 2982.659
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm busy, I'm busy, busy, busy.
  zh: 我很忙，我很忙，很忙，很忙。
- start: 2982.799
  end: 2984.6
  speaker: barron
  en: I hate that word, by the way—busy.
  zh: 顺便说一句，我讨厌那个词——忙。
- start: 2985.141
  end: 2986.662
  speaker: barron
  en: It's such a modernism.
  zh: 这太现代主义了。
- start: 2986.662
  end: 2988.323
  speaker: barron
  en: You say to a person, How are you doing?
  zh: 你问一个人，你最近怎么样？
- start: 2988.323
  end: 2988.823
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm busy!
  zh: 我很忙！
- start: 2988.823
  end: 2989.944
  speaker: barron
  en: Boy, am I busy!
  zh: 天啊，我太忙了！
- start: 2990.264
  end: 2991.205
  speaker: barron
  en: Big deal.
  zh: 有什么了不起。
- start: 2991.385
  end: 2994.547
  speaker: barron
  en: Remember what Francis Hale said about meditation?
  zh: 记得弗朗西斯·黑尔关于默想的话吗？
- start: 2994.547
  end: 3001.319
  speaker: barron
  en: You should meditate daily, half an hour every day, except when you're really preoccupied.
  zh: 你应该每天默想，每天半小时，除非你真的太忙了。
- start: 3001.319
  end: 3004.081
  speaker: barron
  en: Then you should meditate an hour every day.
  zh: 那时你应该每天默想一小时。
- start: 3004.883
  end: 3007.785
  speaker: barron
  en: Don't get me busy; that's a worldly value.
  zh: 别跟我说忙；那是世俗的价值观。
- start: 3009.527
  end: 3012.129
  speaker: barron
  en: What do you do when the floodwaters come?
  zh: 当洪水来临时你会怎么做？
- start: 3012.73
  end: 3021.982
  speaker: barron
  en: Unless you've stored up on an ark that you're maintaining—a place of safety—how come you come to pray here every morning?
  zh: 除非你在你维护的方舟上储备了物资——一个安全的地方——否则你为什么每天早上来这里祈祷？
- start: 3021.982
  end: 3025.504
  speaker: barron
  en: And please God, in the course of your priesthood, that you will continue.
  zh: 求神保佑，在你们的司铎生涯中，你们会继续这样做。
- start: 3025.504
  end: 3038.293
  speaker: barron
  en: It won't be probably as beautiful as the prayer this morning, but you continue praying when you feel like it and when you don't, when it's easy and when it's not.
  zh: 可能不会像今天早上的祈祷那样美好，但无论你想不想祈祷，无论容易与否，你都要继续祈祷。
- start: 3038.293
  end: 3045.738
  speaker: barron
  en: And you know, you guys, you know that there are days like that where you're just caught up in the beauty and wonder of prayer; you love it.
  zh: 你们知道，伙计们，你们知道有些日子就是这样，你们完全沉浸在祈祷的美好和奇妙中；你们热爱它。
- start: 3045.999
  end: 3048.961
  speaker: barron
  en: Other days, it's like, When will this be over?
  zh: 其他日子，就像在想，这什么时候才能结束？
- start: 3048.961
  end: 3049.581
  speaker: SPEAKER_02
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 3050.054
  end: 3051.455
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, that's human life.
  zh: 好吧，这就是人生。
- start: 3051.455
  end: 3059.938
  speaker: barron
  en: Do you know my senior, Stephen Rossetti, who was in charge of the St. Luke Institute and dealt with priests who were going through crisis?
  zh: 你们知道我的前辈斯蒂芬·罗塞蒂吗？他负责圣路加研究所，处理那些正在经历危机的神父的问题。
- start: 3060.559
  end: 3061.9
  speaker: barron
  en: He had a line I've never forgotten.
  zh: 他说过一句我永远不会忘记的话。
- start: 3061.9
  end: 3070.163
  speaker: barron
  en: He said, Every priest who has a crisis fails in a distinctive way, but every one of them has one thing in common.
  zh: 他说，每个经历危机的神父都以独特的方式失败，但他们都有一个共同点。
- start: 3071.004
  end: 3078.267
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Every priest he''s ever dealt with who has gone through a crisis had one thing in common: at some point, they stopped praying.'
  zh: 他处理过的每个经历危机的神父都有一个共同点：在某个时刻，他们停止了祈祷。
- start: 3079.158
  end: 3081.299
  speaker: barron
  en: And that struck me as absolutely right.
  zh: 这让我觉得绝对正确。
- start: 3081.779
  end: 3084.08
  speaker: barron
  en: Priests go bad when they stop praying.
  zh: 神父停止祈祷时就会变坏。
- start: 3084.08
  end: 3092.802
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Or put in this term: when you stop attending to the ark, you didn''t fill it in the course of your life with good food.'
  zh: 或者用这种说法：当你停止照料方舟时，你没有在生命历程中用好的食物填满它。
- start: 3092.983
  end: 3097.984
  speaker: barron
  en: You didn't build a place where you could sustain yourself when the floodwaters come.
  zh: 你没有建造一个在洪水来临时能维持自己的地方。
- start: 3098.525
  end: 3103.386
  speaker: barron
  en: That's why, brothers, you're doing all this formation here and why you've got to continue it.
  zh: 这就是为什么，弟兄们，你们在这里接受所有这些培育，也是为什么你们必须继续下去。
- start: 3103.426
  end: 3104.686
  speaker: barron
  en: Continue it!
  zh: 继续下去！
- start: 3104.847
  end: 3107.172
  speaker: barron
  en: 'And let me say a word for it: study.'
  zh: 让我说一个词：学习。
- start: 3107.172
  end: 3108.912
  speaker: barron
  en: So prayer, yes.
  zh: 所以祈祷，是的。
- start: 3108.932
  end: 3111.133
  speaker: barron
  en: When people ask my advice, I say, Holy Hour.
  zh: 当人们问我建议时，我说，圣时。
- start: 3111.133
  end: 3116.774
  speaker: barron
  en: 'That''s my best advice to a priest, young or old: that you do a holy hour every day.'
  zh: 这是我给神父的最好建议，无论年轻还是年长：每天做一个圣时。
- start: 3116.774
  end: 3117.734
  speaker: barron
  en: Weekend?
  zh: 周末？
- start: 3117.934
  end: 3117.934
  speaker: barron
  en: Yes.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 3117.934
  end: 3118.974
  speaker: barron
  en: On vacation?
  zh: 度假时？
- start: 3119.094
  end: 3119.094
  speaker: barron
  en: Yes.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 3119.094
  end: 3120.974
  speaker: barron
  en: Every single day.
  zh: 每一天。
- start: 3121.074
  end: 3122.495
  speaker: barron
  en: Best advice I can give.
  zh: 这是我能给的最好建议。
- start: 3122.635
  end: 3125.495
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Second best advice: study.'
  zh: 第二好的建议：学习。
- start: 3125.795
  end: 3126.975
  speaker: barron
  en: Keep reading.
  zh: 继续阅读。
- start: 3128.176
  end: 3129.156
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, you'll learn this.
  zh: 你知道，你会明白的。
- start: 3129.156
  end: 3136.437
  speaker: barron
  en: You start preaching, and you'll go a little ways on your, you know, natural charm, if you've got some, you know.
  zh: 你开始讲道，你会靠你的天然魅力走一段路，如果你有的话，你知道的。
- start: 3137.026
  end: 3140.548
  speaker: barron
  en: But trust me, after about a month or two, you're going to run out.
  zh: 但相信我，大约一两个月后，你就会江郎才尽。
- start: 3140.548
  end: 3145.63
  speaker: barron
  en: And unless you're feeding yourself, you are not going to be feeding your people.
  zh: 除非你滋养自己，否则你无法滋养你的会众。
- start: 3146.61
  end: 3154.654
  speaker: barron
  en: I used to, when I was a seminary professor and then rector, and I'd go to visit young priests in their rectory, I'd always ask to see their bookshelf.
  zh: 当我是修院教授后来又是院长时，我去拜访年轻神父的住所时，总是要求看看他们的书架。
- start: 3154.894
  end: 3156.155
  speaker: barron
  en: I'd say, Where are your books?
  zh: 我会说，你的书在哪里？
- start: 3156.415
  end: 3163.678
  speaker: barron
  en: And sometimes I would just see, Yeah, I assigned that book, and I know that one's from your Bible Quest, and that's all you've got on your shelf.
  zh: 有时我就会看到，是的，那本书是我布置的，我知道那本是你圣经课程的，这就是你书架上的全部了。
- start: 3163.678
  end: 3164.759
  speaker: barron
  en: We've got a problem.
  zh: 我们有问题了。
- start: 3164.879
  end: 3169.859
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, if you're not praying and you're not studying, you're not putting food in the ark.
  zh: 你知道，如果你不祈祷也不学习，你就没有在方舟里储存食物。
- start: 3169.859
  end: 3176.643
  speaker: barron
  en: You're not attending to the pitch on the inside and out, and you'll have trouble, trust me, when the tohu vabohu comes.
  zh: 你没有在里外涂上松香，相信我，当tohu vabohu来临时你会有麻烦。
- start: 3178.344
  end: 3179.865
  speaker: barron
  en: How about just a couple more things?
  zh: 再说几件事如何？
- start: 3182.527
  end: 3183.467
  speaker: barron
  en: You know that great old book?
  zh: 你们知道那本伟大的老书吗？
- start: 3183.467
  end: 3187.269
  speaker: barron
  en: 'I don''t know if you guys still read it: Viktor Frankl''s *Man''s Search for Meaning.*'
  zh: 我不知道你们是否还在读：维克多·弗兰克尔的《活出生命的意义》。
- start: 3187.269
  end: 3188.87
  speaker: barron
  en: Do you know that book?
  zh: 你们知道那本书吗？
- start: 3189.271
  end: 3190.211
  speaker: barron
  en: Still worth reading.
  zh: 仍然值得一读。
- start: 3190.211
  end: 3195.474
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, Viktor Frankl was a very accomplished psychiatrist in Vienna, a very high-level figure.
  zh: 你知道，维克多·弗兰克尔是维也纳一位很有成就的精神病学家，一位很高级的人物。
- start: 3196.355
  end: 3199.697
  speaker: barron
  en: The Nazis come; he's a Jew, of course.
  zh: 纳粹来了；他当然是个犹太人。
- start: 3201.138
  end: 3206.002
  speaker: barron
  en: You want to know what the tohu vabohu looks like in the last hundred years?
  zh: 你想知道过去一百年tohu vabohu是什么样子吗？
- start: 3206.662
  end: 3207.683
  speaker: barron
  en: Look at that.
  zh: 看看那个。
- start: 3207.683
  end: 3216.97
  speaker: barron
  en: And Viktor Frankl finds himself right in the middle of it, captured, sent to a series of concentration camps.
  zh: 维克多·弗兰克尔发现自己正处于其中，被抓捕，被送到一系列集中营。
- start: 3217.771
  end: 3220.273
  speaker: barron
  en: He survived miraculously, as some did.
  zh: 他奇迹般地存活了下来，就像一些人一样。
- start: 3221.334
  end: 3231.614
  speaker: barron
  en: What the book is about is how, even there and then, even in the worst of the tohu vabohu, he found meaning.
  zh: 这本书讲的是，即使在那里，即使在最糟糕的tohu vabohu中，他也找到了意义。
- start: 3232.035
  end: 3233.215
  speaker: barron
  en: Where did he find it?
  zh: 他在哪里找到的？
- start: 3233.296
  end: 3250.029
  speaker: barron
  en: In his connection to God and his devotion to care for other people—good biblical values—and his point is that only because he had stored those things up, he had built an ark, was he able to survive when the floodwaters came.
  zh: 在他与神的联系和他对照顾他人的奉献中——这些都是好的圣经价值观——他的观点是，正是因为他储存了这些东西，他建造了方舟，所以当洪水来临时他才能存活。
- start: 3250.029
  end: 3255.011
  speaker: barron
  en: And they came as ferociously as they've ever come in the last hundred years.
  zh: 而且在过去的一百年里，这些灾难来得如此凶猛。
- start: 3255.212
  end: 3259.014
  speaker: barron
  en: He was able to survive because the ark was in place.
  zh: 他能够存活是因为方舟已经建好了。
- start: 3259.014
  end: 3260.935
  speaker: barron
  en: I'll leave it with one more image, then I'll stop.
  zh: 我再说一个意象就结束。
- start: 3262.856
  end: 3267.819
  speaker: barron
  en: I think one of the most spiritually alert movies of the last 50 years was *Field of Dreams.*
  zh: 我认为过去50年最具灵性觉察的电影之一是《梦幻成真》。
- start: 3268.76
  end: 3271.782
  speaker: barron
  en: Of course, it's not too far from my diocese, right?
  zh: 当然，离我的教区不太远，对吧？
- start: 3271.782
  end: 3274.583
  speaker: barron
  en: I've been to that field, like in northern Iowa someplace.
  zh: 我去过那片田地，就在爱荷华州北部某处。
- start: 3274.864
  end: 3284.809
  speaker: barron
  en: I saw that movie in Paris, I remember, because it came out about 1990, maybe '91, and I was just—I love baseball—and I was deeply moved by it.
  zh: 我记得我是在巴黎看的这部电影，因为它大约是1990年或91年上映的，而我就是——我热爱棒球——我被它深深打动了。
- start: 3284.929
  end: 3287.53
  speaker: barron
  en: It's a movie I revisited several times.
  zh: 这是一部我看过好几遍的电影。
- start: 3287.53
  end: 3292.273
  speaker: barron
  en: In fact, I was on a plane maybe two years ago, and it was one of the movies offered.
  zh: 事实上，大约两年前我在飞机上，它是其中一部播放的电影。
- start: 3292.273
  end: 3295.774
  speaker: barron
  en: I watched it again, and it just kept generating meaning.
  zh: 我又看了一遍，它不断产生新的意义。
- start: 3297.495
  end: 3305.098
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Here''s this guy, an ordinary farmer, and he hears a voice: You know, if you build it, he will come.'
  zh: 这里有个普通农民，他听到一个声音：你知道，如果你建造它，他就会来。
- start: 3306.32
  end: 3310.063
  speaker: barron
  en: The voice, you guys, is such a powerful biblical theme.
  zh: 这个声音，伙计们，是一个如此强大的圣经主题。
- start: 3310.063
  end: 3314.645
  speaker: barron
  en: I do think sometimes people really, like the character of the movie, really do hear something.
  zh: 我确实认为有时候人们真的，就像电影中的角色一样，真的听到了什么。
- start: 3314.646
  end: 3317.287
  speaker: barron
  en: I think in the saints, you find it; in the Bible, you find it.
  zh: 我想在圣徒身上，你能找到它；在圣经中，你能找到它。
- start: 3317.328
  end: 3329.736
  speaker: barron
  en: But it's symbolic of this higher call, this call from a higher world—not a world that's repugnant to this one, but it's in a higher dimension.
  zh: 但这象征着更高的呼召，来自更高世界的呼召——不是与这个世界对立的世界，而是在更高维度中。
- start: 3330.096
  end: 3336.826
  speaker: barron
  en: 'And out of that higher dimension, it calls to us: If you build it, he will come.'
  zh: 从那个更高的维度中，它呼唤我们：如果你建造它，他就会来。
- start: 3337.647
  end: 3340.788
  speaker: barron
  en: And think of Noah building his ark.
  zh: 想想挪亚建造他的方舟。
- start: 3340.788
  end: 3344.529
  speaker: barron
  en: The Bible doesn't get into great detail, but some of the filmmakers have.
  zh: 圣经没有详细描述，但一些电影制作人做到了。
- start: 3344.57
  end: 3348.471
  speaker: barron
  en: 'It is funny to think about: here''s a guy in the middle of the desert, and what''s he building?'
  zh: 想想很有趣：这里有个人在沙漠中间，他在建造什么？
- start: 3348.471
  end: 3349.692
  speaker: barron
  en: A giant boat?
  zh: 一艘巨大的船？
- start: 3349.692
  end: 3351.192
  speaker: barron
  en: Are you out of your mind?
  zh: 你疯了吗？
- start: 3351.532
  end: 3353.033
  speaker: barron
  en: Laugh, laugh, laugh—ha ha!
  zh: 笑啊，笑啊，笑啊——哈哈！
- start: 3353.033
  end: 3356.314
  speaker: barron
  en: What a goofball this Noah is, building an ark in the middle of it.
  zh: 这个挪亚真是个傻瓜，在这中间建造方舟。
- start: 3356.314
  end: 3357.534
  speaker: barron
  en: What are you doing?
  zh: 你在做什么？
- start: 3358.975
  end: 3368.493
  speaker: barron
  en: How many people in the course of your life have found your choice of religion and the priesthood kind of silly, kind of funny?
  zh: 在你的一生中，有多少人觉得你选择信仰和司铎职务有点傻，有点好笑？
- start: 3368.753
  end: 3369.934
  speaker: barron
  en: What are you wasting your life for?
  zh: 你为什么要浪费你的生命？
- start: 3369.934
  end: 3374.895
  speaker: barron
  en: I know, and that's always been true to a lot of the culture.
  zh: 我知道，对很多文化来说一直都是这样。
- start: 3374.895
  end: 3388.138
  speaker: barron
  en: We're going to seem a little peculiar because everyone in this room has heard a voice—now maybe physically, but at least metaphorically—you've heard a call from a higher world, and it's to build something.
  zh: 我们会显得有点特别，因为这个房间里的每个人都听到了一个声音——也许不是实体的，但至少是比喻意义上的——你们听到了来自更高世界的呼召，要去建造某些东西。
- start: 3389.799
  end: 3397.045
  speaker: barron
  en: Because Ray built that field, he found a conduit to a higher world of meaning.
  zh: 因为雷建造了那片田地，他找到了通向更高意义世界的通道。
- start: 3397.206
  end: 3399.888
  speaker: barron
  en: That's where the baseball players come from—the other world.
  zh: 那些棒球运动员就是从那个世界来的——另一个世界。
- start: 3399.888
  end: 3408.675
  speaker: barron
  en: And eventually, he establishes a kind of axis mundi there that links them to heaven, and then the whole world at the end starts coming to him.
  zh: 最终，他在那里建立了一种天地之轴，将他们与天堂连接起来，然后整个世界开始向他汇聚。
- start: 3408.736
  end: 3410.817
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, that's a deeply biblical vision.
  zh: 这是一个深刻的圣经异象。
- start: 3411.899
  end: 3422.027
  speaker: barron
  en: The beautiful thing about you guys is you've heard that voice, and you have started building this kind of anomalous thing called your preparation for the priesthood.
  zh: 关于你们最美好的事情是你们听到了那个声音，并且已经开始建造这种特别的东西，就是你们对司铎职务的准备。
- start: 3423.362
  end: 3424.522
  speaker: barron
  en: Keep building it!
  zh: 继续建造它！
- start: 3424.522
  end: 3434.666
  speaker: barron
  en: Don't be discouraged by the voice of the world because if we build it appropriately and we know how to live in that space, the whole world will be drawn.
  zh: 不要被世界的声音所discouraged，因为如果我们恰当地建造它，并且知道如何在那个空间中生活，整个世界都会被吸引过来。
- start: 3435.267
  end: 3439.889
  speaker: barron
  en: So we looked at Adam and Noah; we saw these great liturgical themes.
  zh: 所以我们看了亚当和挪亚；我们看到了这些伟大的礼仪主题。
- start: 3439.889
  end: 3447.792
  speaker: barron
  en: So I'm arguing that the central theme of the entire Bible is right praise, orthodoxy—moving people into the right praise.
  zh: 所以我认为整本圣经的中心主题是正确的赞美，正统信仰——引导人们进入正确的赞美。
- start: 3448.372
  end: 3454.436
  speaker: barron
  en: We'll see these now continue with the next two, namely Jacob and Jonah.
  zh: 我们现在将继续看接下来的两个，即雅各和约拿。
- start: 3455.116
  end: 3464.062
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Just two things about Jacob: I''m going to emphasize the first one, which is anticipated right from the beginning because he''s born grasping at the heel of his brother Esau.'
  zh: 关于雅各只说两件事：我要强调第一件，这从一开始就预示到了，因为他出生时抓着他哥哥以扫的脚跟。
- start: 3464.302
  end: 3473.028
  speaker: barron
  en: So from the beginning, he's a wrestler, and it's the anticipation of his great wrestling with God that will be my second point.
  zh: 所以从一开始，他就是个摔跤手，这预示着他将与神摔跤，这将是我的第二点。
- start: 3473.148
  end: 3482.234
  speaker: barron
  en: And I won't talk about it; there's a lot to say about the Jacob-Esau thing and tricking his father and all that, but I want to cut to the chase of the latter.
  zh: 我不会谈论这个；关于雅各和以扫的事以及他欺骗父亲的事有很多可说的，但我想直接说后面的事。
- start: 3482.717
  end: 3489.861
  speaker: barron
  en: So Jacob, near Beersheba, takes a stone as a rather improbable pillow, right?
  zh: 所以雅各在别是巴附近，用一块石头作为一个不太可能的枕头，对吧？
- start: 3489.941
  end: 3492.542
  speaker: barron
  en: But we'll see why the stone is very important.
  zh: 但我们会看到为什么这块石头很重要。
- start: 3493.063
  end: 3496.264
  speaker: barron
  en: He lies down and dreams of a ladder.
  zh: 他躺下来梦见一个梯子。
- start: 3496.525
  end: 3503.888
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, if you look at the Hebrew experts, our word ladder gives the sense of, like, you know, two sides and rungs going up.
  zh: 现在，如果你看希伯来语专家的解释，我们说的梯子给人的感觉是，你知道，有两边和向上的横档。
- start: 3503.929
  end: 3512.573
  speaker: barron
  en: A probably better rendering is something like ramp, and they think even of the stepped side of a ziggurat.
  zh: 可能更好的翻译是类似坡道，他们甚至认为是金字塔神庙的阶梯状侧面。
- start: 3512.731
  end: 3517.616
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of one of those temples with a stepped side—that's the ladder he's talking about.
  zh: 想想那些有阶梯状侧面的神庙——那就是他说的梯子。
- start: 3517.616
  end: 3525.102
  speaker: barron
  en: And then it makes more sense to speak of the angels of God ascending and descending on this ramp.
  zh: 这样说神的使者在这个坡道上上去下来就更有意义了。
- start: 3525.643
  end: 3531.388
  speaker: barron
  en: It's our first hint that we're dealing again with an anticipation of the temple.
  zh: 这是我们第一个暗示，表明我们又在处理对圣殿的预示。
- start: 3531.649
  end: 3537.194
  speaker: barron
  en: The temple is the place where the earth rises up, and heaven comes down.
  zh: 圣殿是地上升起，天降下来的地方。
- start: 3537.383
  end: 3544.427
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, this is a classic archetypal motif; you see it in religions and mythologies around the world.
  zh: 现在，这是一个经典的原型主题；你在世界各地的宗教和神话中都能看到它。
- start: 3544.427
  end: 3555.554
  speaker: barron
  en: It's called the axis mundi—the axis of the world, that central place from which radiates the four points.
  zh: 它被称为天地之轴——世界的轴心，四方由此辐射开来的中心位置。
- start: 3555.554
  end: 3565.0
  speaker: barron
  en: 'And indeed, listen to this: we get it in the story when God speaks to Jacob after the dream: I’m the Lord, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac.'
  zh: 确实，听听这个：我们在故事中看到，当神在梦后对雅各说：我是主，是你父亲亚伯拉罕的神，也是以撒的神。
- start: 3565.154
  end: 3568.517
  speaker: barron
  en: The land on which you lie I will give to you and your offspring.
  zh: 你躺着的地，我要赐给你和你的后裔。
- start: 3568.597
  end: 3581.41
  speaker: barron
  en: Your offspring shall be like the dust of the earth, and you shall spread abroad to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south, and all families of the earth shall be blessed in you.
  zh: 你的后裔必像地上的尘沙那样多，必向东西南北开展，地上万族必因你和你的后裔得福。
- start: 3581.41
  end: 3590.318
  speaker: barron
  en: That's a classic axis mundi idea—the central place from which the directions come forth, from which life radiates.
  zh: 这是一个经典的天地之轴理念——方向由此发出，生命由此辐射的中心位置。
- start: 3592.52
  end: 3597.304
  speaker: barron
  en: Think for a second now of the Mass, especially that kind of iconic moment.
  zh: 现在想一想弥撒，特别是那种标志性的时刻。
- start: 3597.625
  end: 3603.289
  speaker: barron
  en: I just did it now a few minutes ago here—lifting up something from the earth.
  zh: 我几分钟前刚在这里做过——从地上举起某物。
- start: 3603.289
  end: 3620.244
  speaker: barron
  en: So we receive these elements, simple bread and wine, these ordinary things, lifting up, and then something of heaven coming down and indeed transubstantiating—fundamentally changing these things of earth into a heavenly reality.
  zh: 所以我们领受这些元素，简单的饼和酒，这些普通的东西，举起来，然后天上的某物降下，确实发生了实体转变——从根本上将这些地上的物质转变为天上的实在。
- start: 3620.626
  end: 3627.208
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, that's the whole idea of worship; that's the axis mundi for us.
  zh: 这就是敬拜的整体理念；这就是我们的天地之轴。
- start: 3627.768
  end: 3636.571
  speaker: barron
  en: And now the theme I want to emphasize, brothers, is all the masters, all the spiritual teachers called finding the center.
  zh: 现在我要强调的主题，弟兄们，是所有大师，所有灵修导师都称之为寻找中心。
- start: 3637.671
  end: 3641.992
  speaker: barron
  en: So Thomas Merton, for example, was asked one time, What's contemplative prayer?
  zh: 比如托马斯·默顿有一次被问到，什么是默观祈祷？
- start: 3642.173
  end: 3650.215
  speaker: barron
  en: Merton responded, It's finding that place in you where you are here and now being created by God.
  zh: 默顿回答说，是找到你内在的那个地方，在那里你此时此刻正在被神创造。
- start: 3650.794
  end: 3653.595
  speaker: barron
  en: That's lovely, it seems to me; it's very Thomistic, right?
  zh: 我觉得这很美；很托马斯主义，对吧？
- start: 3653.595
  end: 3657.736
  speaker: barron
  en: Creation, Thomas says, is *creatio continua.*
  zh: 托马斯说，创造是持续的创造。
- start: 3657.736
  end: 3661.738
  speaker: barron
  en: It didn't happen just way back then; it's happening now.
  zh: 这不只是发生在很久以前；它正在发生。
- start: 3662.538
  end: 3669.8
  speaker: barron
  en: He says in the *De Potentia,* a creature is a kind of relation to the Creator with freshness of being.
  zh: 他在《论能力》中说，受造物是一种与造物主的关系，具有存在的新鲜性。
- start: 3678.601
  end: 3681.263
  speaker: barron
  en: That's Thomas Aquinas' definition of a creature.
  zh: 这是托马斯·阿奎那对受造物的定义。
- start: 3681.263
  end: 3682.844
  speaker: barron
  en: You see how powerful that is?
  zh: 你看到这有多有力量吗？
- start: 3682.844
  end: 3690.348
  speaker: barron
  en: That's not Aristotle; that's not ordinary this-worldly language of there's substance, substance, substance, and we have a relationship.
  zh: 这不是亚里士多德；这不是普通的世俗语言中说的有实体，实体，实体，然后我们有关系。
- start: 3690.528
  end: 3692.089
  speaker: barron
  en: No, it's much more radical than that.
  zh: 不，这比那要激进得多。
- start: 3692.089
  end: 3699.173
  speaker: barron
  en: The creature is *quodam relatio ad creatorem*—it's a kind of relationship, already always.
  zh: 受造物是与造物主的某种关系——它本来就是一种关系，永远都是。
- start: 3699.694
  end: 3709.61
  speaker: barron
  en: 'So listen to Merton again: To pray contemplatively is to find the place in you where you are here and now being created by God.'
  zh: 所以再听听默顿的话：默观祈祷就是找到你内在的那个地方，在那里你此时此刻正在被神创造。
- start: 3710.19
  end: 3713.052
  speaker: barron
  en: It's finding the axis mundi, right?
  zh: 这就是找到天地之轴，对吧？
- start: 3713.052
  end: 3714.793
  speaker: barron
  en: It's finding the center.
  zh: 这就是找到中心。
- start: 3715.233
  end: 3716.734
  speaker: barron
  en: Look now at Teresa of Avila.
  zh: 现在看看亚维拉的德肋撒。
- start: 3716.734
  end: 3726.56
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the *Interior Castle,* and beautifully, you know, for a 16th-century Spaniard, what's a castle but a place of safety and power?
  zh: 那就是《内在的城堡》，很美妙，你知道，对16世纪的西班牙人来说，城堡不就是一个安全和力量的地方吗？
- start: 3727.121
  end: 3733.284
  speaker: barron
  en: If you were threatened, you'd go to the castle of the Lord, and you'd find safety there, right?
  zh: 如果你受到威胁，你会去主的城堡，在那里找到安全，对吧？
- start: 3733.703
  end: 3739.584
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, there's an interior castle, a place of safety—it's Christ dwelling in us.
  zh: 是的，有一个内在的城堡，一个安全的地方——就是基督住在我们里面。
- start: 3739.764
  end: 3741.664
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the axis mundi.
  zh: 这就是天地之轴。
- start: 3741.784
  end: 3743.545
  speaker: barron
  en: Or think of John of the Cross.
  zh: 或者想想十字若望。
- start: 3744.585
  end: 3747.005
  speaker: barron
  en: He speaks of the inner wine cellar.
  zh: 他谈到内在的酒窖。
- start: 3747.005
  end: 3749.206
  speaker: barron
  en: It's beautiful, isn't it?
  zh: 很美，不是吗？
- start: 3749.206
  end: 3750.806
  speaker: barron
  en: The place where the spirits are kept.
  zh: 存放灵酒的地方。
- start: 3750.806
  end: 3753.126
  speaker: barron
  en: You know what he says, though, too?
  zh: 你知道他还说什么吗？
- start: 3753.126
  end: 3759.627
  speaker: barron
  en: John of the Cross is that we all have in us this inner wine cellar, but most of us have forgotten the key to it.
  zh: 十字若望说我们都有这个内在的酒窖，但我们大多数人都忘记了打开它的钥匙。
- start: 3760.248
  end: 3767.283
  speaker: barron
  en: You see, when you pray, what are you accessing but this deep place in the center where Christ dwells?
  zh: 你看，当你祈祷时，你所接触的不就是基督居住的这个深处中心吗？
- start: 3767.404
  end: 3773.566
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Think of John Henry Newman: The conscience is the aboriginal vicar of Christ in the soul.'
  zh: 想想约翰·亨利·纽曼说的：良知是灵魂中基督最初的代理。
- start: 3773.566
  end: 3775.086
  speaker: barron
  en: Same idea, it seems to me.
  zh: 在我看来是同样的想法。
- start: 3775.827
  end: 3786.971
  speaker: barron
  en: The Pope is the vicar of Christ, but the aboriginal vicar of Christ in the soul, Newman says, is the conscience—that still small voice, right from the prophet.
  zh: 教宗是基督的代理，但纽曼说，灵魂中基督最初的代理是良知——那个微小的声音，正如先知所说的。
- start: 3787.551
  end: 3791.613
  speaker: barron
  en: In all these ways, the masters are pointing at this theme of the axis mundi.
  zh: 通过所有这些方式，大师们都在指向这个天地之轴的主题。
- start: 3791.613
  end: 3794.462
  speaker: barron
  en: It seems to me of Jacob's ladder.
  zh: 在我看来这就是雅各的梯子。
- start: 3795.363
  end: 3800.026
  speaker: barron
  en: You've got to find it, brothers, or you're not going to survive spiritually.
  zh: 弟兄们，你们必须找到它，否则你们在灵性上就无法存活。
- start: 3800.107
  end: 3804.55
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Now we know what it is for us: it''s the Mass; it''s the liturgy.'
  zh: 现在我们知道对我们来说它是什么：是弥撒；是礼仪。
- start: 3804.55
  end: 3807.432
  speaker: barron
  en: Again, right praise—that's the axis mundi.
  zh: 再说一遍，正确的赞美——那就是天地之轴。
- start: 3807.873
  end: 3823.36
  speaker: barron
  en: And all those practices that are attendant upon the Mass, from holy hour to Eucharistic adoration, benediction, etc. Father John Canary was a long-time rector of Mundelein Seminary, a great Chicago priest.
  zh: 以及所有伴随弥撒的实践，从圣时到圣体朝拜，降福等。约翰·卡纳里神父是蒙德莱恩修院的长期院长，一位伟大的芝加哥神父。
- start: 3823.36
  end: 3831.161
  speaker: barron
  en: He's now about 82 years old, but when John was rector, he used to tell us, Stay close to the fire.
  zh: 他现在大约82岁了，但当约翰担任院长时，他常常告诉我们，要靠近火。
- start: 3832.001
  end: 3834.861
  speaker: barron
  en: Now that's interesting because that too is an axis mundi idea.
  zh: 这很有趣，因为这也是一个天地之轴的概念。
- start: 3834.861
  end: 3841.242
  speaker: barron
  en: For ancient primal peoples, the fire was the center around which the community would build itself, right?
  zh: 对古代原始民族来说，火就是社区围绕其建立的中心，对吧？
- start: 3841.583
  end: 3844.123
  speaker: barron
  en: So stay close to the fire—same idea.
  zh: 所以靠近火——是同样的想法。
- start: 3844.203
  end: 3852.659
  speaker: barron
  en: Stay close to Christ, the center, the interior castle, the inner wine cellar, your conscience—the aboriginal vicar of Christ.
  zh: 靠近基督，靠近中心，靠近内在的城堡，内在的酒窖，你的良知——基督最初的代理。
- start: 3852.659
  end: 3860.363
  speaker: barron
  en: But all of it summed up in the Mass—the Mass, the Mass—which is the axis mundi.
  zh: 但这一切都总结在弥撒中——弥撒，弥撒——这就是天地之轴。
- start: 3861.284
  end: 3864.346
  speaker: barron
  en: That's when the angels of God will ascend and descend.
  zh: 那时神的使者将上去下来。
- start: 3865.247
  end: 3866.688
  speaker: barron
  en: What happens to us sinners?
  zh: 我们这些罪人会怎么样？
- start: 3866.688
  end: 3877.555
  speaker: barron
  en: We lose the center; we wander from the fire; we look for the center in the wrong place, and so then we fall apart, right?
  zh: 我们失去中心；我们离开火；我们在错误的地方寻找中心，所以我们就分崩离析，对吧？
- start: 3878.055
  end: 3879.436
  speaker: barron
  en: Stay close to it.
  zh: 要靠近它。
- start: 3879.628
  end: 3887.213
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Now notice this, which I think is wonderful: he lies on a stone, which again is a pretty weird thing to use for a pillow.'
  zh: 现在注意这一点，我觉得很奇妙：他躺在一块石头上，这又是一个用作枕头的很奇怪的东西。
- start: 3887.434
  end: 3894.019
  speaker: barron
  en: And then he says, when he wakes up, Surely the Lord was in this place, and I did not know it.
  zh: 然后他醒来时说，耶和华真在这里，我竟不知道。
- start: 3894.239
  end: 3902.205
  speaker: barron
  en: This stone on which he slept, which now I've set up as a pillar, shall be God's house.
  zh: 我睡过的这块石头，现在我立作柱子，要作神的殿。
- start: 3902.325
  end: 3904.266
  speaker: barron
  en: And then he anoints it.
  zh: 然后他膏抹了它。
- start: 3904.607
  end: 3908.83
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, I mean, duh, it's hard to miss the associations, right?
  zh: 好吧，我是说，这些联系很难错过，对吧？
- start: 3909.751
  end: 3914.034
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm now going to make from this axis mundi the temple.
  zh: 我现在要把这个天地之轴变成圣殿。
- start: 3914.034
  end: 3916.416
  speaker: barron
  en: And why a stone?
  zh: 为什么是石头？
- start: 3916.416
  end: 3920.319
  speaker: barron
  en: Because a stone is permanent; it's not something fleeting.
  zh: 因为石头是永久的；不是短暂的东西。
- start: 3920.359
  end: 3927.084
  speaker: barron
  en: That's why altars, I think, should be stone—they're permanent.
  zh: 这就是为什么我认为祭台应该是石头的——它们是永久的。
- start: 3927.084
  end: 3930.727
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the axis mundi; we don't move it around.
  zh: 这就是天地之轴；我们不随意移动它。
- start: 3932.468
  end: 3935.01
  speaker: barron
  en: It's anointed, and we still do that.
  zh: 它被膏抹了，我们现在仍然这样做。
- start: 3935.01
  end: 3942.838
  speaker: barron
  en: I think as a bishop, one of my favorite things to do is the anointing and consecration of an altar at the gorgeous ceremony of the Church.
  zh: 我想作为主教，我最喜欢做的事情之一就是在教会庄严的仪式中膏抹和祝圣祭台。
- start: 3942.838
  end: 3948.16
  speaker: barron
  en: But as Jacob anoints the stone, he's anticipating the temple.
  zh: 但当雅各膏抹石头时，他是在预示圣殿。
- start: 3948.62
  end: 3953.202
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Now, take one more step: Nathaniel.'
  zh: 现在，再进一步：拿但业。
- start: 3953.202
  end: 3954.923
  speaker: barron
  en: Hey, I saw you under the fig tree.
  zh: 嘿，我看见你在无花果树底下。
- start: 3954.923
  end: 3956.903
  speaker: barron
  en: Oh, you'll see greater things than that.
  zh: 哦，你将要看见比这更大的事。
- start: 3956.943
  end: 3962.085
  speaker: barron
  en: You'll see the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.
  zh: 你将要看见神的使者上去下来在人子身上。
- start: 3962.365
  end: 3965.346
  speaker: barron
  en: Who is the true axis mundi?
  zh: 谁是真正的天地之轴？
- start: 3965.486
  end: 3967.047
  speaker: barron
  en: Who is Jacob's ladder?
  zh: 谁是雅各的梯子？
- start: 3967.047
  end: 3969.972
  speaker: barron
  en: It's Christ; it's Christ Himself.
  zh: 是基督；是基督自己。
- start: 3970.132
  end: 3971.612
  speaker: barron
  en: Who's the temple?
  zh: 谁是圣殿？
- start: 3971.693
  end: 3977.495
  speaker: barron
  en: Look, I'm going to tear that place down, and in three days, rebuild it, referring to the temple of His body.
  zh: 看，我要拆毁这殿，三日内要再建立起来，这是指着他的身体的殿说的。
- start: 3977.696
  end: 3979.457
  speaker: barron
  en: Who's the anointed stone?
  zh: 谁是受膏的石头？
- start: 3979.457
  end: 3981.137
  speaker: barron
  en: It's Christ Himself!
  zh: 是基督自己！
- start: 3981.498
  end: 3982.378
  speaker: barron
  en: Christ Himself!
  zh: 基督自己！
- start: 3982.378
  end: 3987.12
  speaker: barron
  en: What's the Mass but the representation of the sacrifice of Calvary?
  zh: 弥撒不就是加尔瓦略山祭献的重现吗？
- start: 3988.621
  end: 3992.063
  speaker: barron
  en: Stay close to the fire—yep, stay close to Him.
  zh: 靠近火——是的，靠近祂。
- start: 3993.644
  end: 3997.186
  speaker: barron
  en: Find that place in you where you're here and now being created by God.
  zh: 找到你内在那个此时此刻正在被神创造的地方。
- start: 3997.186
  end: 4002.669
  speaker: barron
  en: Yes, stay close to Him—your conscience, the aboriginal vicar of Christ in the soul.
  zh: 是的，靠近祂——你的良知，灵魂中基督最初的代理。
- start: 4002.669
  end: 4003.689
  speaker: barron
  en: Stay close to Him.
  zh: 靠近祂。
- start: 4003.689
  end: 4008.351
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the idea; that's the idea of Jacob's ladder.
  zh: 这就是那个意思；这就是雅各梯子的意思。
- start: 4008.972
  end: 4020.997
  speaker: barron
  en: Now here's the real practical connection for all of you guys, and I'm going to quote one of my heroes, Fulton Sheen, who I was reminded this morning worshiped in this very chapel, right?
  zh: 现在这是对你们所有人的实际联系，我要引用我的一位英雄富尔顿·希恩的话，今早有人提醒我他曾在这个小堂做礼拜，对吧？
- start: 4023.271
  end: 4027.434
  speaker: barron
  en: Fulton Sheen says, Every priest is a Jacob's ladder.
  zh: 富尔顿·希恩说，每个司铎都是一个雅各的梯子。
- start: 4028.154
  end: 4036.76
  speaker: barron
  en: It's really good, and ever since I read that—many years ago now—it's just become a key sort of archetypal symbol for me.
  zh: 这真的很好，自从我读到这句话——现在已经很多年了——它就成为了我心中一个关键的原型象征。
- start: 4037.161
  end: 4039.722
  speaker: barron
  en: Every priest is a Jacob's ladder.
  zh: 每个司铎都是一个雅各的梯子。
- start: 4039.963
  end: 4041.023
  speaker: barron
  en: What does that mean?
  zh: 这是什么意思？
- start: 4041.264
  end: 4044.846
  speaker: barron
  en: As a priest, you're grounded in the earth.
  zh: 作为司铎，你扎根于大地。
- start: 4046.247
  end: 4047.988
  speaker: barron
  en: The ladder is connected to the ground.
  zh: 梯子是与地面相连的。
- start: 4047.988
  end: 4059.966
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of a great ziggurat connected to the ground, and you reach up to heaven because you are yourself an *Alter Christus*—you're another Christ.
  zh: 想想一个与地面相连的大金字塔神庙，你向天伸展因为你自己就是另一个基督。
- start: 4059.966
  end: 4066.449
  speaker: barron
  en: 'So you become who Christ is: a Jacob''s ladder connecting heaven and earth.'
  zh: 所以你成为基督所是的：一个连接天地的雅各梯子。
- start: 4066.449
  end: 4071.15
  speaker: barron
  en: You become, in your own person, a kind of axis mundi.
  zh: 你在你自己的位格中，成为一种天地之轴。
- start: 4071.991
  end: 4078.413
  speaker: barron
  en: That's why John Paul in *Pastores Dabo Vobis* doesn't use ladder but rather bridge, right?
  zh: 这就是为什么若望保禄在《我要给你们牧者》中不用梯子而用桥的原因，对吧？
- start: 4078.774
  end: 4087.94
  speaker: barron
  en: So Pope Francis is the *Pontifex Maximus,* but every priest is a *Pontifex Parvulus,* I guess—a little bridge builder.
  zh: 所以方济各教宗是至高司祭，但我猜每个司铎都是小司祭——一个小小的搭桥者。
- start: 4088.401
  end: 4091.984
  speaker: barron
  en: And the bridge is you; the bridge is you.
  zh: 而这座桥就是你；这座桥就是你。
- start: 4092.084
  end: 4097.868
  speaker: barron
  en: Which means you've got to be grounded in the earth, and your head's got to be up in the heavens.
  zh: 这意味着你必须扎根于大地，而你的头必须仰望天堂。
- start: 4098.669
  end: 4107.596
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Now think about this for a second: when I was coming of age, every stress was on this worldly side of the ladder.'
  zh: 现在想一想：在我成长的时候，所有的重点都放在梯子的世俗这一边。
- start: 4107.921
  end: 4111.805
  speaker: barron
  en: So call me Bob; I'll wear a sports shirt; I'll talk this way.
  zh: 所以叫我鲍勃；我穿运动衫；我这样说话。
- start: 4111.805
  end: 4114.047
  speaker: barron
  en: You do; I'm your ordinary guy.
  zh: 你这样做；我就是个普通人。
- start: 4114.047
  end: 4116.73
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, oh, there's nothing special about me.
  zh: 你知道，哦，我没什么特别的。
- start: 4116.93
  end: 4120.094
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, okay, press that all the way.
  zh: 好吧，让我们把这个想法推到极致。
- start: 4120.094
  end: 4131.625
  speaker: barron
  en: You might be a very helpful sociologist or psychologist or cultural analyst or buddy, you know, but you won't be a priest because a priest is a Jacob's ladder.
  zh: 你可能是一个很有帮助的社会学家或心理学家或文化分析家或朋友，你知道，但你不会是一个司铎，因为司铎是雅各的梯子。
- start: 4131.889
  end: 4141.854
  speaker: barron
  en: A priest, yes, is grounded in the earth and in the world and ordinary experience and is meant to connect people to a higher realm, a higher order.
  zh: 是的，司铎扎根于大地、世界和普通经验中，并且注定要将人们与更高的境界、更高的秩序连接起来。
- start: 4141.854
  end: 4155.179
  speaker: barron
  en: If you don't explore that higher order—and by that, I mean prayer, and I mean study, above all—you don't do that, you are not a ladder; you're a buddy, you're a friend, you're a psychologist, you're whatever, but you're not a priest.
  zh: 如果你不探索那个更高的秩序——我指的是祈祷，我指的是学习，最重要的是——你不做这些，你就不是梯子；你是朋友，你是伙伴，你是心理学家，你是随便什么，但你不是司铎。
- start: 4155.88
  end: 4157.3
  speaker: barron
  en: Now turn it around.
  zh: 现在反过来看。
- start: 4158.544
  end: 4164.727
  speaker: barron
  en: I love high ideas about God; I love mysticism; I love prayer—great, terrific!
  zh: 我喜欢关于神的崇高观念；我喜欢神秘主义；我喜欢祈祷——太好了，太棒了！
- start: 4164.727
  end: 4165.728
  speaker: barron
  en: I do too.
  zh: 我也是。
- start: 4165.728
  end: 4170.61
  speaker: barron
  en: But you're a monk and a mystic then, and there's nothing wrong with monks and mystics; I love them.
  zh: 但那样你就是修士和神秘主义者了，修士和神秘主义者没有什么不对；我喜欢他们。
- start: 4170.69
  end: 4174.292
  speaker: barron
  en: There's nothing wrong with psychologists and sociologists; love them too.
  zh: 心理学家和社会学家也没有什么不对；我也喜欢他们。
- start: 4174.452
  end: 4180.415
  speaker: barron
  en: But you're not a priest if you're just up in that world and you're not connected to the ground.
  zh: 但如果你只在那个世界里而不与地面相连，你就不是司铎。
- start: 4181.196
  end: 4191.298
  speaker: barron
  en: That's why it's tricky, and this often gets on the liberal-conservative divide and older-younger divide, which is not helpful because every priest is a Jacob's ladder.
  zh: 这就是为什么这很棘手，这常常陷入自由派-保守派的分歧和老年人-年轻人的分歧，这并不有帮助，因为每个司铎都是雅各的梯子。
- start: 4191.298
  end: 4194.059
  speaker: barron
  en: You're both; you're both; you're both.
  zh: 你是两者都是；你是两者都是；你是两者都是。
- start: 4195.4
  end: 4208.385
  speaker: barron
  en: My dear mother, who just died last year at the age of 101—my mother lived a long life—and she recalled this would have been like in the 1940s that her family befriended some of the young priests in her Chicago parish.
  zh: 我亲爱的母亲，去年刚去世，享年101岁——我母亲活了很长的寿命——她回忆说这大约是在1940年代，她的家庭与她芝加哥教区的一些年轻司铎成为了朋友。
- start: 4208.745
  end: 4215.528
  speaker: barron
  en: She told me that they were trained at Mundelein back in those days that if they were seeing a couple for marriage prep...
  zh: 她告诉我，在那些日子里，他们在蒙德莱恩受训时被教导，如果他们要见一对准备结婚的夫妇...
- start: 4216.348
  end: 4221.691
  speaker: barron
  en: They shouldn't see where the priest was coming from; they shouldn't see him coming down the stairs.
  zh: 他们不应该看到司铎从哪里来；他们不应该看到他下楼。
- start: 4221.691
  end: 4223.532
  speaker: barron
  en: He should just kind of appear.
  zh: 他应该就这样出现。
- start: 4225.374
  end: 4232.278
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, I mean, come on, that's sort of a silly hyper-stress on the other end—mystical.
  zh: 好吧，我是说，得了，那是另一个极端的愚蠢过分强调——神秘主义。
- start: 4232.498
  end: 4234.579
  speaker: barron
  en: Come on, we're at Jacob's ladder!
  zh: 来吧，我们说的是雅各的梯子！
- start: 4234.62
  end: 4242.064
  speaker: barron
  en: Yes, we speak of these high heavenly things, and again, brothers, if you stop reading, if you stop praying, you will not speak of those things.
  zh: 是的，我们谈论这些崇高的天上的事，再说一遍，弟兄们，如果你停止阅读，如果你停止祈祷，你就不能谈论这些事。
- start: 4242.345
  end: 4247.367
  speaker: barron
  en: You'll devolve into being everyone's buddy, and that's fine; it's better than being everyone's enemy.
  zh: 你会退化成每个人的朋友，这很好；总比成为每个人的敌人要好。
- start: 4247.367
  end: 4249.468
  speaker: barron
  en: But if you're everyone's buddy, you're not a priest.
  zh: 但如果你只是每个人的朋友，你就不是司铎。
- start: 4250.449
  end: 4259.355
  speaker: barron
  en: By the same token, if you forget the link to the earth—so just use that; it's Fulton Sheen who prayed right here.
  zh: 同样地，如果你忘记与大地的联系——就用这个吧；就是富尔顿·希恩在这里祈祷过。
- start: 4259.796
  end: 4264.119
  speaker: barron
  en: 'It''s a very helpful link: you''re the ladder, and you''re a bridge.'
  zh: 这是一个很有帮助的联系：你是梯子，你是桥梁。
- start: 4264.679
  end: 4267.921
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, let me just cut to the chase now to the second point.
  zh: 好，让我现在直接说到第二点。
- start: 4268.742
  end: 4271.504
  speaker: barron
  en: We saw Jacob from the beginning was a wrestler.
  zh: 我们看到雅各从一开始就是个摔跤手。
- start: 4271.949
  end: 4283.055
  speaker: barron
  en: And as you know, when finally it's time to reconcile with Esau, and he doesn't know Esau's coming at him with an army of 400 men, Jacob doesn't know what's going to happen; he thinks he might die.
  zh: 你们知道，当最终到了与以扫和解的时候，他不知道以扫带着400人的军队向他而来，雅各不知道会发生什么；他以为自己可能会死。
- start: 4283.055
  end: 4286.557
  speaker: barron
  en: And as he's waiting that night before, what do we hear?
  zh: 在那之前的夜晚他等待时，我们听到什么？
- start: 4286.557
  end: 4290.78
  speaker: barron
  en: A man wrestled with him until daybreak.
  zh: 有一个人与他摔跤，直到天亮。
- start: 4290.78
  end: 4292.561
  speaker: barron
  en: And you know famously, is it a man?
  zh: 你们都知道那个著名的问题，那是一个人吗？
- start: 4292.561
  end: 4293.381
  speaker: barron
  en: Is it an angel?
  zh: 是一个天使吗？
- start: 4293.381
  end: 4294.382
  speaker: barron
  en: Is it God Himself?
  zh: 是神自己吗？
- start: 4294.382
  end: 4297.063
  speaker: barron
  en: The story is kind of deliciously ambiguous.
  zh: 这个故事有一种令人愉悦的模糊性。
- start: 4297.063
  end: 4304.348
  speaker: barron
  en: I suppose there—I don't know any wrestlers here, any guys that have done wrestling at college or high school.
  zh: 我想这里——我不知道这里有没有摔跤手，有没有在大学或高中摔过跤的人。
- start: 4305.148
  end: 4308.649
  speaker: barron
  en: I loved sports as a kid, and I played baseball, basketball, football.
  zh: 我小时候喜欢运动，我打过棒球、篮球、橄榄球。
- start: 4308.649
  end: 4314.649
  speaker: barron
  en: I never wrestled at the sort of serious level, but I did it like gym class or in intramurals.
  zh: 我从未在正式级别摔过跤，但我在体育课或校内比赛中摔过。
- start: 4315.13
  end: 4322.031
  speaker: barron
  en: And when I was young and in shape, man, but wrestling—in like a minute, I was exhausted.
  zh: 当我年轻身体好的时候，天啊，但是摔跤——大约一分钟，我就精疲力尽了。
- start: 4322.311
  end: 4329.132
  speaker: barron
  en: There was no sport I played, a lot of them, but there was no sport that exhausted me as quickly as wrestling.
  zh: 我玩过很多运动，但没有哪个运动能像摔跤那样让我这么快就精疲力尽。
- start: 4329.235
  end: 4334.519
  speaker: barron
  en: 'So I always think, listen to this: A man wrestled with him until daybreak.'
  zh: 所以我总是想，听听这个：有一个人与他摔跤，直到天亮。
- start: 4334.84
  end: 4336.1
  speaker: barron
  en: All night!
  zh: 整整一夜！
- start: 4336.701
  end: 4337.802
  speaker: barron
  en: All night!
  zh: 整整一夜！
- start: 4338.162
  end: 4351.813
  speaker: barron
  en: 'And then we hear this: the man says to him, You shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with God and with humans and have prevailed.'
  zh: 然后我们听到这个：那人对他说，你的名不要再叫雅各，要叫以色列，因为你与神与人较力，都得了胜。
- start: 4351.813
  end: 4354.796
  speaker: barron
  en: It's a very interesting thing to say.
  zh: 这是一个很有趣的说法。
- start: 4354.796
  end: 4365.969
  speaker: barron
  en: Again, I'm going to call you by a different name now—not Jacob, but Israel—which has the sense of the one who wrestles with God, *Elohim.*
  zh: 再说一遍，我现在要用一个不同的名字称呼你——不是雅各，而是以色列——这有与神（Elohim）摔跤之人的意思。
- start: 4367.23
  end: 4372.754
  speaker: barron
  en: You've striven indeed with God and with humans and have prevailed.
  zh: 你确实与神与人较力，都得了胜。
- start: 4372.895
  end: 4374.716
  speaker: barron
  en: That's a rather extraordinary thing.
  zh: 这是一件相当非凡的事。
- start: 4375.076
  end: 4378.439
  speaker: barron
  en: You think, Okay, I'm wrestling with God; I should get some credit for that.
  zh: 你想，好吧，我在与神摔跤；我应该因此得到一些赞许。
- start: 4378.439
  end: 4381.641
  speaker: barron
  en: But I mean, God's going to win, right?
  zh: 但我是说，神会赢，对吧？
- start: 4383.683
  end: 4390.871
  speaker: barron
  en: No! Jacob—Israel—has prevailed, and he thereby becomes the one for whom the entire people is named.
  zh: 不！雅各——以色列——得胜了，因此他成为了整个民族以其命名的人。
- start: 4391.271
  end: 4394.933
  speaker: barron
  en: This people, Israel—who are they?
  zh: 这个民族，以色列——他们是谁？
- start: 4395.434
  end: 4400.697
  speaker: barron
  en: People whose very definition is wrestler with God.
  zh: 他们的定义本身就是与神摔跤的人。
- start: 4402.319
  end: 4404.259
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, I'll go back to Newman for a second.
  zh: 你知道，让我再回到纽曼一下。
- start: 4404.46
  end: 4409.523
  speaker: barron
  en: Newman's famous doctrine regarding the development of doctrine, right?
  zh: 纽曼关于教义发展的著名学说，对吧？
- start: 4409.803
  end: 4411.865
  speaker: barron
  en: And I can look at that just very epistemologically.
  zh: 我可以从认识论的角度来看这个。
- start: 4411.865
  end: 4415.667
  speaker: barron
  en: You know that doctrine unfolds over space and time.
  zh: 你知道教义是在时空中展开的。
- start: 4416.084
  end: 4420.385
  speaker: barron
  en: But think about it in terms of the one who wrestles with doctrine.
  zh: 但从与教义摔跤的人的角度来思考它。
- start: 4420.985
  end: 4423.305
  speaker: barron
  en: So a doctrine is received, right?
  zh: 所以一个教义被接受，对吧？
- start: 4423.626
  end: 4427.106
  speaker: barron
  en: And it's taken in, and then it's discussed with someone else.
  zh: 它被接纳，然后与他人讨论。
- start: 4427.106
  end: 4431.507
  speaker: barron
  en: It's tossed over to him and tossed back, and in the discussion, what happens?
  zh: 它被抛给他又被抛回来，在讨论中，会发生什么？
- start: 4431.507
  end: 4436.848
  speaker: barron
  en: New aspects open up; new dimensions of it open up, and they puzzle me in a fresh way.
  zh: 新的方面展开了；新的维度打开了，它们以新的方式让我困惑。
- start: 4436.848
  end: 4443.33
  speaker: barron
  en: And now I have to wrestle with that implication, and now I throw it back to somebody else, and he sees another angle on it.
  zh: 现在我必须与这个含义摔跤，然后我把它抛回给别人，他又看到了另一个角度。
- start: 4443.33
  end: 4445.61
  speaker: barron
  en: And it opens up a new type of wrestling.
  zh: 这就开启了一种新的摔跤。
- start: 4445.785
  end: 4454.468
  speaker: barron
  en: Can you read the whole tradition, brothers, not as, Here's the truth, like a football, and it's just sort of dumbly passed on from one generation to the other?
  zh: 弟兄们，你们能不能把整个传统理解为不仅仅是「这就是真理」，像足球一样，只是呆板地从一代传给另一代？
- start: 4455.129
  end: 4459.35
  speaker: barron
  en: Newman saw that; that's just way too ham-handed in understanding.
  zh: 纽曼看到了这一点；那种理解方式太过粗糙了。
- start: 4459.35
  end: 4462.311
  speaker: barron
  en: It's more like a great game, you know?
  zh: 这更像是一场伟大的游戏，你知道吗？
- start: 4462.311
  end: 4466.713
  speaker: barron
  en: One time it's very hideous to another, and the ball comes back with a somewhat different spin.
  zh: 一次传给另一次，球带着不同的旋转回来。
- start: 4466.713
  end: 4470.974
  speaker: barron
  en: It's like a diamond that you toss up in the air, and it catches different aspects.
  zh: 这就像你抛向空中的钻石，它会呈现出不同的面向。
- start: 4470.974
  end: 4475.576
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, the tradition is like a long, great conversation.
  zh: 你知道，传统就像一场漫长而伟大的对话。
- start: 4476.627
  end: 4483.852
  speaker: barron
  en: Justin tosses the ball to Chrysostom, who tosses it to Jerome, who tosses it to Augustine, who tosses it to Aquinas, who tosses it, you know?
  zh: 游斯丁把球传给屈梭多模，屈梭多模传给耶柔米，耶柔米传给奥古斯丁，奥古斯丁传给阿奎那，阿奎那又传出去，你明白吗？
- start: 4484.373
  end: 4494.42
  speaker: barron
  en: And it's in that process—the point I'm making here is of wrestling, of wrestling with it—that the tradition comes to ever greater insight and fruition.
  zh: 正是在这个过程中——我在这里强调的是摔跤，与之摔跤——传统达到了越来越深的洞见和成果。
- start: 4494.42
  end: 4495.941
  speaker: barron
  en: Does that make sense?
  zh: 这说得通吗？
- start: 4496.882
  end: 4498.322
  speaker: barron
  en: I'll give you an example.
  zh: 我给你们一个例子。
- start: 4498.483
  end: 4500.564
  speaker: barron
  en: I was a theology professor for a long time.
  zh: 我当了很长时间的神学教授。
- start: 4500.564
  end: 4506.128
  speaker: barron
  en: I don't know if you guys still read about the De Auxiliis controversy from the 16th century.
  zh: 我不知道你们是否还读过16世纪的「论援助」之争。
- start: 4506.189
  end: 4507.27
  speaker: barron
  en: You study that?
  zh: 你们学过这个吗？
- start: 4507.83
  end: 4519.38
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, in the wake of the Reformation and the Council of Trent, this whole question of God's foreknowledge and grace versus human freedom and how do they work together?
  zh: 你知道，在宗教改革和特伦特大公会议之后，关于神的预知和恩典与人的自由之间的关系，它们如何协调的整个问题？
- start: 4519.381
  end: 4525.466
  speaker: barron
  en: The Reformers had really stirred that up, and then the Council of Trent said things about it.
  zh: 改革者们真的搅动了这个问题，然后特伦特大公会议对此发表了意见。
- start: 4525.466
  end: 4532.152
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, in the late 16th century, there's a massive debate within Catholicism—Jesuits versus Dominicans.
  zh: 在16世纪末，公教会内部有一场大辩论——耶稣会士对阵道明会士。
- start: 4532.409
  end: 4537.593
  speaker: barron
  en: Dominicans taking the side of grace very strongly, Jesuits the side of human freedom very strongly.
  zh: 道明会强烈支持恩典这一方，耶稣会则强烈支持人的自由这一方。
- start: 4537.593
  end: 4543.537
  speaker: barron
  en: And the smartest people—some of them in the tradition—wrestled with this problem.
  zh: 最聪明的人们——其中一些在传统中的人——与这个问题摔跤。
- start: 4543.717
  end: 4556.927
  speaker: barron
  en: Luis Molina, in my view, one of the great geniuses of the Catholic tradition, you know, the famous Molinist solution to this problem—super clever, super clever view.
  zh: 路易斯·莫利纳，在我看来是公教传统中的一位伟大天才，你知道，他对这个问题的著名的莫利纳主义解决方案——非常聪明，非常聪明的见解。
- start: 4556.927
  end: 4559.329
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, they wrestled, they fought, they argued.
  zh: 他们摔跤，他们争斗，他们辩论。
- start: 4559.329
  end: 4567.352
  speaker: barron
  en: It got so bad that the Pope had to call them to Rome and say, Look, look, let's have a big debate here, and we're going to finalize this thing.
  zh: 情况变得如此糟糕，以至于教宗不得不把他们叫到罗马说，看，看，让我们在这里进行一场大辩论，我们要把这件事定论。
- start: 4567.952
  end: 4572.133
  speaker: barron
  en: And they debated, debated, debated, and they didn't resolve it.
  zh: 他们辩论，辩论，再辩论，但他们没有解决它。
- start: 4572.153
  end: 4581.075
  speaker: barron
  en: And so the Pope finally says, in 1607, All right, all right, Dominicans, stop calling them Pelagians; Jesuits, stop calling them Calvinists.
  zh: 所以教宗最后在1607年说，好吧，好吧，道明会的，别再叫他们伯拉纠派；耶稣会的，别再叫他们加尔文派。
- start: 4581.455
  end: 4585.656
  speaker: barron
  en: Teach your thing in your own schools, and I will settle this eventually.
  zh: 在你们各自的学校教你们的东西，我最终会解决这个问题。
- start: 4587.997
  end: 4589.797
  speaker: barron
  en: 1607—it’s never been settled since then.
  zh: 1607年——从那时起就一直没有解决。
- start: 4590.606
  end: 4591.607
  speaker: barron
  en: I'll tell you a true story.
  zh: 我给你们讲一个真实的故事。
- start: 4591.607
  end: 4599.35
  speaker: barron
  en: This is years ago when I was living with Cardinal George, and of course, Cardinal George loved theology and all this, and Benedict was Pope in those days.
  zh: 这是多年前我和乔治枢机主教一起生活的时候，当然，乔治枢机主教喜欢神学和这一切，那时本笃是教宗。
- start: 4599.41
  end: 4602.812
  speaker: barron
  en: He was going over—Cardinal George—to see the Pope about something.
  zh: 他——乔治枢机主教——要去见教宗谈些事情。
- start: 4602.833
  end: 4606.014
  speaker: barron
  en: So he said to me, What should I tell him, or what should I ask him?
  zh: 所以他对我说，我该告诉他什么，或者我该问他什么？
- start: 4606.014
  end: 4609.575
  speaker: barron
  en: And I said, Tell him to resolve the De Auxiliis.
  zh: 我说，告诉他解决「论援助」之争。
- start: 4611.236
  end: 4612.436
  speaker: barron
  en: And he did!
  zh: 他真的这么做了！
- start: 4612.897
  end: 4618.919
  speaker: barron
  en: Cardinal George went over and did it because Benedict did all this great deal, and he said, We need you to solve this problem.
  zh: 乔治枢机主教去了并这么做了，因为本笃做了这么多大事，他说，我们需要你来解决这个问题。
- start: 4618.919
  end: 4619.799
  speaker: barron
  en: I said, What did he say?
  zh: 我说，他说什么？
- start: 4619.799
  end: 4621.54
  speaker: barron
  en: He said, He just smiled at me.
  zh: 他说，他只是对我笑了笑。
- start: 4623.861
  end: 4626.262
  speaker: barron
  en: Now I'm going to personalize a little bit.
  zh: 现在我要稍微说说个人经历。
- start: 4626.622
  end: 4628.783
  speaker: barron
  en: I taught this for many years.
  zh: 我教了这个很多年。
- start: 4629.303
  end: 4630.763
  speaker: barron
  en: I taught a course on the Reformation.
  zh: 我教过一门关于宗教改革的课程。
- start: 4630.763
  end: 4636.916
  speaker: barron
  en: I did Luther, Calvin, Trent, and then as a coda at the very end, we did the De Auxiliis controversy.
  zh: 我讲了路德、加尔文、特伦特，然后作为结尾，我们讲了「论援助」之争。
- start: 4637.417
  end: 4644.5
  speaker: barron
  en: And every year, I felt like I was climbing a mountain—the mountain of this difficult problem.
  zh: 每年，我都觉得自己在爬山——爬这个困难问题的山。
- start: 4644.641
  end: 4648.983
  speaker: barron
  en: I'd get to a certain point, and then I'd get exhausted thinking about it, and I would stop.
  zh: 我会到达某个点，然后思考得精疲力尽，就会停下来。
- start: 4649.083
  end: 4654.426
  speaker: barron
  en: Then the next year would come along, and I would teach it again, and I felt, Okay, I'm kind of climbing a little higher.
  zh: 然后第二年来了，我又教一遍，我感觉，好，我好像爬得更高了一点。
- start: 4654.426
  end: 4657.568
  speaker: barron
  en: And then I'd get exhausted, then I'd stop.
  zh: 然后我又精疲力尽，就又停下来。
- start: 4657.568
  end: 4660.709
  speaker: barron
  en: Then the third year, Where am I on that mountain?
  zh: 然后到了第三年，我在这座山上到哪里了？
- start: 4660.709
  end: 4663.666
  speaker: barron
  en: I don't know, maybe here somewhere.
  zh: 我不知道，也许在这里某个地方。
- start: 4663.907
  end: 4665.349
  speaker: barron
  en: Have I figured it out?
  zh: 我解决它了吗？
- start: 4665.349
  end: 4666.57
  speaker: barron
  en: No way!
  zh: 不可能！
- start: 4666.61
  end: 4667.151
  speaker: barron
  en: No way!
  zh: 绝对不可能！
- start: 4667.151
  end: 4670.855
  speaker: barron
  en: I've been wrestling with it for 30 years, that problem.
  zh: 我已经与这个问题摔跤30年了。
- start: 4672.637
  end: 4679.566
  speaker: barron
  en: Jacob is called Israel, and from that name, the whole people is named—the people that wrestle with God.
  zh: 雅各被称为以色列，整个民族都以这个名字命名——与神摔跤的民族。
- start: 4679.566
  end: 4698.408
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, brothers, when you're becoming priests, a priest is someone—and it's a tough part of the job, it really is—that you, as it were, are professionally committed to a lifetime of wrestling with God for the sake of your people.
  zh: 现在，弟兄们，当你们成为司铎时，司铎就是这样的人——这确实是工作中艰难的部分——你们可以说是专业地致力于为你们的子民与神摔跤一生。
- start: 4699.029
  end: 4706.194
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of our people that we serve, who often don't have the time or the interest or the ability to wrestle with these questions.
  zh: 想想我们服务的子民，他们常常没有时间或兴趣或能力去与这些问题摔跤。
- start: 4706.194
  end: 4715.437
  speaker: barron
  en: I don't mean just these abstract theological questions, but you know, with all the great questions about God, about meaning and purpose in life, and evil and suffering, and all of that.
  zh: 我不是只说这些抽象的神学问题，而是你知道的，所有关于神的重大问题，关于生命的意义和目的，关于邪恶和苦难，所有这些。
- start: 4715.518
  end: 4717.939
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, who wrestles for them?
  zh: 那么，谁为他们摔跤？
- start: 4717.939
  end: 4718.899
  speaker: barron
  en: You do!
  zh: 你们！
- start: 4719.159
  end: 4720.099
  speaker: barron
  en: You do!
  zh: 你们！
- start: 4720.099
  end: 4726.902
  speaker: barron
  en: And the thing is, Jacob didn't pick this fight; God did, right?
  zh: 而且事情是这样的，不是雅各选择了这场搏斗；是神选择的，对吧？
- start: 4727.502
  end: 4730.524
  speaker: barron
  en: Jacob didn't seek out the guy for a wrestling match.
  zh: 雅各并没有去找那个人摔跤。
- start: 4730.524
  end: 4734.305
  speaker: barron
  en: This man appears and wrestles with Jacob.
  zh: 这个人出现并与雅各摔跤。
- start: 4735.185
  end: 4739.968
  speaker: barron
  en: God has already picked a fight with you, which is why you're here, right?
  zh: 神已经选择了与你搏斗，这就是你在这里的原因，对吧？
- start: 4739.968
  end: 4740.549
  speaker: barron
  en: He has!
  zh: 祂确实这样做了！
- start: 4740.549
  end: 4742.73
  speaker: barron
  en: And you know what I'm saying is true.
  zh: 你们知道我说的是真的。
- start: 4742.73
  end: 4747.874
  speaker: barron
  en: He's already picked a fight with you, and not in an aggressive way—in this wonderful way.
  zh: 祂已经选择了与你搏斗，不是以攻击的方式——而是以这种奇妙的方式。
- start: 4747.874
  end: 4758.642
  speaker: barron
  en: He's engaged you, and He's grabbed your mind and your heart, and He's compelled you to wrestle with these deep questions because you're going to serve His people.
  zh: 祂与你相遇，抓住了你的心智和心灵，祂迫使你与这些深刻的问题摔跤，因为你将要服侍祂的子民。
- start: 4760.303
  end: 4763.045
  speaker: barron
  en: So never give up on that; that's your life.
  zh: 所以永远不要放弃这个；这就是你的生命。
- start: 4763.485
  end: 4766.143
  speaker: barron
  en: That's your life in a thousand ways.
  zh: 这就是你生命的千种体现。
- start: 4766.143
  end: 4774.746
  speaker: barron
  en: And you'll find that God will wrestle with you anew, and maybe you reach a certain equilibrium or you come to a certain insight.
  zh: 你会发现神会重新与你摔跤，也许你达到某种平衡或获得某种洞见。
- start: 4775.226
  end: 4776.966
  speaker: barron
  en: Don't worry; He'll be back.
  zh: 别担心；祂会回来的。
- start: 4777.546
  end: 4780.207
  speaker: barron
  en: Trust me, He'll be back for more wrestling.
  zh: 相信我，祂会回来继续摔跤的。
- start: 4780.527
  end: 4788.829
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, Thomas Aquinas said—the saints in heaven realize just how incomprehensible God is.
  zh: 你知道，托马斯·阿奎那说——天上的圣徒意识到神是多么不可理解。
- start: 4789.09
  end: 4790.67
  speaker: barron
  en: That's a splendid thing to say.
  zh: 这话说得真好。
- start: 4790.93
  end: 4793.251
  speaker: barron
  en: So yes, here below, God is incomprehensible.
  zh: 所以是的，在这世上，神是不可理解的。
- start: 4793.251
  end: 4801.355
  speaker: barron
  en: I don't know what Thomas says, but no, in heaven, we'll see for the first time just how incomprehensible He is.
  zh: 我不知道托马斯怎么说，但不，在天堂，我们才第一次看到祂是多么不可理解。
- start: 4801.515
  end: 4802.816
  speaker: barron
  en: Why is that not bad news?
  zh: 为什么这不是坏消息？
- start: 4802.816
  end: 4812.345
  speaker: barron
  en: It's because now I've got an eternity of wonderful engagement with God, of ever deeper exploration into God.
  zh: 因为现在我有了永恒的时间与神奇妙地相遇，永远更深地探索神。
- start: 4812.806
  end: 4818.19
  speaker: barron
  en: 'So think about your priesthood: you''re a Jacob''s ladder, yeah, and you''re a wrestler.'
  zh: 所以想想你的司铎职分：你是雅各的梯子，是的，你也是个摔跤手。
- start: 4818.371
  end: 4821.644
  speaker: barron
  en: You are a wrestler with God, and you will be forever—forever!
  zh: 你是与神摔跤的人，你将永远如此——永远！
- start: 4821.644
  end: 4826.408
  speaker: barron
  en: Oh gosh, okay, maybe I'll stop with that and not go into Jonah.
  zh: 哦天啊，好吧，也许我就到此为止，不谈约拿了。
- start: 4826.408
  end: 4828.509
  speaker: barron
  en: We'll save Jonah for my next trip up here.
  zh: 我们把约拿留到我下次来这里时再说。
- start: 4830.611
  end: 4831.992
  speaker: barron
  en: What else can I tell you about Jacob?
  zh: 关于雅各我还能告诉你们什么？
- start: 4831.992
  end: 4837.616
  speaker: barron
  en: Oh, you know the fact that when Jacob wrestles, he's struck on the hip, and he's wounded.
  zh: 哦，你们知道当雅各摔跤时，他的大腿被打了一下，受了伤。
- start: 4838.177
  end: 4839.117
  speaker: barron
  en: You bet!
  zh: 你说得对！
- start: 4839.278
  end: 4841.519
  speaker: barron
  en: That's always my experience with God.
  zh: 这一直是我与神的经历。
- start: 4842.1
  end: 4844.962
  speaker: barron
  en: Every wrestling match with God has left me wounded.
  zh: 每一次与神的摔跤都让我受伤。
- start: 4847.024
  end: 4861.401
  speaker: barron
  en: But before the man leaves, Jacob demands a blessing because every fight with God will wound you—guarantee it—and it will bless you and will give you a new name and a new identity.
  zh: 但在那人离开之前，雅各要求祝福，因为每一次与神的搏斗都会让你受伤——这是必然的——但也会祝福你，给你一个新的名字和新的身份。
- start: 4861.921
  end: 4864.882
  speaker: barron
  en: It's wounding, and it's blessing at the same time.
  zh: 这既是受伤，同时也是祝福。
- start: 4865.122
  end: 4872.524
  speaker: barron
  en: So you know, it's like the—what's the term they use for the kind of suffering soul?
  zh: 所以你知道，这就像是——他们用什么词来形容那种受苦的灵魂？
- start: 4872.524
  end: 4874.024
  speaker: barron
  en: The victim—the victim soul.
  zh: 牺牲——牺牲的灵魂。
- start: 4874.024
  end: 4881.066
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, there is something of that with all you guys becoming priests—that God has chosen you as a wrestling partner.
  zh: 你知道，你们所有成为司铎的人都有这样的特质——神已经选择了你们作为摔跤的伙伴。
- start: 4881.366
  end: 4883.713
  speaker: barron
  en: And leave me alone!
  zh: 让我一个人吧！
- start: 4883.713
  end: 4887.619
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, you trust me when I say that—leave me alone!
  zh: 我是说，你相信我说的——让我一个人吧！
- start: 4887.619
  end: 4890.302
  speaker: barron
  en: But He won't, because He's chosen you.
  zh: 但祂不会的，因为祂已经拣选了你。
- start: 4891.004
  end: 4893.888
  speaker: barron
  en: And it'll wound you, but it will bless you at the end of the day.
  zh: 这会让你受伤，但最终会祝福你。
