- start: 5.467
  end: 13.269
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It seems altogether appropriate that we should express our faith in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 我们向圣父、圣子、圣灵表达我们的信仰，似乎再合宜不过了。
- start: 16.55
  end: 24.812
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But isn't that at least questionable, even idolatrous, to be professing belief in the Church?
  zh: 但是，我们在教会里宣认信仰，难道不会引起质疑，甚至被视为偶像崇拜吗？
- start: 26.892
  end: 42.864
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'That we do profess this in the creed signals perhaps the most fundamental truth about the Mystical Body: that it is a sacrament of Christ, that it participates in His divinity.'
  zh: 我们在信经中如此宣认，也许显示了关于耶稣奥体最根本的真理：教会乃是基督的圣事，并且参与了祂的神性。
- start: 46.465
  end: 74.416
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The one holy Catholic and apostolic Church offers forgiveness, calls us out of the world, and invites us toward the light of the world to come.
  zh: 独一、圣洁、大公、使徒的教会赐予宽恕，将我们从尘世中呼召出来，引领我们走向即将来临的世界之光。
- start: 74.416
  end: 82.977
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'We come now to the close of the Nicene Creed: I believe in one holy Catholic and apostolic Church.'
  zh: 我们现在来到尼西亚信经的尾声：我信独一、圣洁、大公、使徒的教会。
- start: 83.218
  end: 93.954
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Now here''s the first thing to notice: we believe in God, we believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, we believe in the Holy Spirit, and we believe in the Church.'
  zh: 首先要注意的是：我们信神，我们信独一的主耶稣基督，我们信圣灵，也信教会。
- start: 95.294
  end: 97.194
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What isn't the Church there for?
  zh: 那么，教会究竟是为了什么呢？
- start: 97.875
  end: 99.895
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Simply a human organization?
  zh: 难道仅仅是一个人的组织吗？
- start: 99.895
  end: 103.436
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If that's all it were, we wouldn't believe in it.
  zh: 如果它仅仅如此，我们就不会「信」它了。
- start: 103.896
  end: 125.105
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We might accept it and we might say, Okay, that's a good thing to have, but to profess one's belief in the Church is a sign that there's something divine in it, about the Church, making it not simply an organization, if I can put it this way, but an organism.
  zh: 我们也许会接纳它，并说：「好啊，这确实是个好东西。」然而宣认自己对教会的信仰，表明教会之中有某种来自神的本质，使它不仅仅是一个组织，如果我可以这么说的话，而是一个有生命的机体。
- start: 125.746
  end: 132.352
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Here''s what I mean: the Second Person of the Trinity took to Himself a human nature.'
  zh: 我的意思是：三位一体的第二位取了人的本性归于自己。
- start: 132.352
  end: 134.233
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We call that the Incarnation.
  zh: 我们称那为「道成肉身」。
- start: 134.694
  end: 141.82
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity now takes to Himself this icon of His presence.
  zh: 在耶稣身上，三位一体的第二位取了这具彰显祂临在的形象。
- start: 144.045
  end: 150.95
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Jesus rises from the dead, ascends to His heavenly place, and remains there in His glorified body.
  zh: 耶稣从死里复活，升到天上，并以祂荣耀的身体常存于那里。
- start: 152.052
  end: 162.8
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'But then, the Second Person of the Trinity takes to Himself, as it were, another nature: this time the Church.'
  zh: 随后，三位一体的第二位又好像取了另一种本性：这一次是教会。
- start: 164.381
  end: 171.147
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: With its roots in St. Paul, we have this idea of the Mystical Body of Jesus.
  zh: 源自圣保罗的教导，我们便有了耶稣奥体的观念。
- start: 171.187
  end: 173.428
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's the body He took to Himself 2,000 years ago.
  zh: 那是祂两千年前取了归于自己的身体。
- start: 174.614
  end: 181.578
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And then there's this Mystical Body that He takes to Himself across space and time.
  zh: 然后还有祂在时空中所取的奥体。
- start: 182.859
  end: 195.026
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: All of us baptized are cells and molecules and organs in this Mystical Body, which is now the means by which Jesus continues to do His work in the Church.
  zh: 所有受洗者都是这奥体的细胞、分子和器官；这是耶稣继续在教会中施行工作的方法。
- start: 195.026
  end: 200.929
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do you see now why it's so inappropriate to refer to the Church simply as an organization?
  zh: 你们现在明白为什么仅仅把教会看作一个组织是多么不妥了吗？
- start: 202.41
  end: 208.77
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, no, it's a living organism by which Christ continues to act in the Church.
  zh: 不，不。它是一个活的机体，基督借此继续在教会内行动。
- start: 208.89
  end: 213.151
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think now in the New Testament, in the Acts of the Apostles.
  zh: 试想新约《使徒行传》中的情景。
- start: 214.251
  end: 217.472
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Jesus appears to Saul on the road to Damascus.
  zh: 耶稣在往大马士革的路上向扫罗显现。
- start: 218.373
  end: 223.514
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He says, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?
  zh: 祂说：「扫罗，扫罗，你为什么逼迫我？」
- start: 224.214
  end: 228.355
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He didn't say, Why are you persecuting that organization that I founded?
  zh: 祂没有说：「你为什么逼迫我所创立的那个组织？」
- start: 228.495
  end: 231.256
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He said, Why are you persecuting me?
  zh: 祂说：「你为什么逼迫我？」
- start: 233.217
  end: 239.79
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Matthew 25 says, Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers and sisters, you do it to me.
  zh: 在《马太福音》25章里，主说：「这些事你们既坐在我这弟兄中一个最小的身上，就是坐在我身上了」。
- start: 240.091
  end: 245.292
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He's not saying, Well, you do it to these nice people that have organized themselves under my inspiration.
  zh: 祂不是说：「嗯，你们只是在那些在我启迪下聚集起来的好人身上这么做。」
- start: 245.292
  end: 247.073
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, no, you do it to me.
  zh: 不，不，你们是对我这样做。
- start: 247.073
  end: 253.175
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's how close Christ identifies with His body, the Church.
  zh: 基督与祂的身体——教会乃是如此紧密相连。
- start: 254.495
  end: 263.178
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Put it this way: the Church is the means by which we become, as it were, participants in the very life of the Trinity.'
  zh: 换句话说，教会就是使我们成为三位一体生命之参与者的途径。
- start: 264.497
  end: 269.578
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: As I said, we become sons and daughters in the Son.
  zh: 正如我所说，我们在圣子内成为儿女。
- start: 271.679
  end: 280.101
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, sometimes you hear the objection, Well, why would Catholics have this institution that stands between them and Jesus?
  zh: 有时候你会听到这样的质疑：「为什么公教徒要有一个机构横亘在他们和耶稣之间呢？」
- start: 280.541
  end: 283.062
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why would we need this sort of mediator?
  zh: 我们为什么需要这样一种中保呢？
- start: 283.062
  end: 285.602
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, we just don't think of it that way.
  zh: 嗯，我们并不那样看。
- start: 286.162
  end: 291.704
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, I wouldn't say that my body is somehow mediating the real me to you.
  zh: 我的意思是，我不会说我的身体以某种方式在你面前传递真正的我。
- start: 291.704
  end: 294.851
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, I mean, my body—that's the real me.
  zh: 不，我是说，我的身体——那就是真正的我。
- start: 295.752
  end: 306.175
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's how you know me; precisely through my presence, my voice, etc. In the same way, we don't think of the Church as some institution standing between us and Jesus.
  zh: 你就是这样认识我的；正是透过我的临在、我的声音等等。同样地，我们并不认为教会是横亘在我们与耶稣之间的某种组织。
- start: 307.315
  end: 310.376
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I love this from St. Joan of Arc.
  zh: 我很喜欢圣女贞德所说的这番话。
- start: 310.376
  end: 324.797
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'When she was being interrogated at her trial, she said this about Jesus Christ and the Church: I simply know they''re just one thing and we shouldn''t complicate the matter.'
  zh: 当她在审判中受审时，她这样谈到耶稣基督和教会：「我只知道它们是一回事，我们不该把事情复杂化。」
- start: 325.378
  end: 331.321
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's a great expression of the Church as organism, not as organization.
  zh: 这正是对教会作为有机体，而非单纯组织的绝佳诠释。
- start: 332.362
  end: 340.326
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now the word Church in Greek, used all the time in the New Testament, is ekklesia.
  zh: 在希腊文中，「教会」一词在新约里经常使用，其原文是「ekklesia」。
- start: 340.387
  end: 344.569
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So our words, you know, ecclesiastic and ecclesiastical come from that.
  zh: 我们常说的「ecclesiastic」和「ecclesiastical」之类的词也都由此而来。
- start: 344.829
  end: 352.954
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But ekklesia is an interesting word because, as I mentioned before, kalein means to call, and ek means from or out of.
  zh: 但是「ekklesia」是个有趣的词，因为正如我先前所说，「kalein」是召唤的意思，「ek」则是「从」或「出来」的意思。
- start: 354.195
  end: 361.38
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So an ekklesia is a group of people who have been called out of something into something else.
  zh: 所以，「ekklesia」指的是那群从某个处境被呼召出来，进入另一处境的人。
- start: 361.38
  end: 365.923
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They’ve been called forth to be something new.
  zh: 他们被召出来，成为一个全新的群体。
- start: 367.204
  end: 373.168
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So the Church is called by somebody out of something into something else.
  zh: 因此，教会是被某位呼召者，从某个境况中召唤出来，进入另一个境况。
- start: 373.769
  end: 374.809
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, who does the calling?
  zh: 那么，究竟是谁发出这呼召呢？
- start: 374.809
  end: 377.311
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'That should be pretty clear: Jesus.'
  zh: 答案很明显：耶稣。
- start: 377.952
  end: 382.835
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's not you who have chosen me; it's I who have chosen you.
  zh: 「不是你们拣选了我，而是我拣选了你们。」
- start: 383.388
  end: 387.189
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: As I've said before, Christianity is not the story of our quest for God.
  zh: 正如我先前说的，基督信仰并不是我们寻求神的故事。
- start: 387.189
  end: 389.51
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, that’s any spirituality.
  zh: 我的意思是，那才是任何灵修都可能包含的追寻。
- start: 391.331
  end: 396.673
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, no, it's not you who have chosen me because you've come searching for me; I've chosen you.
  zh: 不，不。不是因为你们来寻找我才拣选我，而是我拣选了你们。
- start: 397.373
  end: 401.434
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Christ calls us out of what?
  zh: 基督将我们从什么之中呼召出来呢？
- start: 401.775
  end: 404.736
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Out of the world, to use that biblical term.
  zh: 用圣经里的说法，是把我们从「世界」中呼召出来。
- start: 405.196
  end: 406.616
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What is the world?
  zh: 那「世界」指的是什么呢？
- start: 406.937
  end: 414.534
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It means that whole world—conjuries of styles, institutions, and influences marked by sin.
  zh: 指的就是整个受罪所标记的世界——由种种风格、体制和影响交织而成。
- start: 414.534
  end: 424.98
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It means the space of selfishness and violence and what Augustine called the lust to dominate.
  zh: 意味着自私和暴力的领域，以及奥古斯丁所说的对支配的贪欲。
- start: 424.98
  end: 442.214
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of the fallen world; we're called out of that by Christ into something else—into a whole new way of being, thinking, and acting.
  zh: 想想那堕落的世界；我们被基督呼召出来，进入另一个境地——一种全新的生活、思维和行动方式。
- start: 442.215
  end: 457.287
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's the Church, and we're called not just into the Church in this world, but ultimately into that fullness of communion with Christ on high in heaven.
  zh: 这就是教会，我们受召不仅是进入此世的教会，更是为了在天上与基督达成圆满的共融。
- start: 457.287
  end: 464.872
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There are three figures from the Old Testament that I think are really evocative of all this dimension.
  zh: 在旧约里有三个人物，我认为都能唤起对这一层面极为深刻的思考。
- start: 464.872
  end: 468.273
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And the Church Fathers love to meditate on this.
  zh: 教父们也非常喜欢默想这些人物。
- start: 468.373
  end: 471.034
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The first one is Noah.
  zh: 第一个是挪亚。
- start: 471.555
  end: 478.078
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of the great biblical figure of Noah, who is called out of the sinful world.
  zh: 想想圣经中的伟大人物挪亚，他被从罪恶的世界中呼召出来。
- start: 478.258
  end: 484.621
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So the tohu vabohu of sin has come rushing back into the world—that's what the floodwaters symbolize.
  zh: 罪的混沌再度涌向世界——这正是洪水所象征的。
- start: 485.376
  end: 501.661
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But God calls Noah and his little family, and representatives of the animal kingdom, out of that fallen world into the ark, which is a place of safety where that life is preserved.
  zh: 但是神呼召挪亚和他的小家庭，以及代表动物界的生灵，离开那堕落的世界，进入方舟——一个保全生命的安全之所。
- start: 502.001
  end: 504.822
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's a beautiful image of the Church, isn't it?
  zh: 那正是教会一个美妙的象征，不是吗？
- start: 506.423
  end: 510.764
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In fact, churches classically were meant to look a bit like boats.
  zh: 事实上，传统的教堂常被设计得有些像船。
- start: 511.653
  end: 522.757
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The central section—I look down the central section of this beautiful basilica—church is called the nave, from the Latin navis, meaning boat or ship.
  zh: 这座华美大殿的中段——当我眺望这中心区域——称为「nave」，源自拉丁文「navis」，意思是船或舰。
- start: 524.078
  end: 528.7
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So Noah is a symbol of the Church as we make our way through the stormy waters of the world.
  zh: 因此，挪亚象征着教会，带领我们在这世上的汹涌波涛中前行。
- start: 528.7
  end: 531.981
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We've been called out of that into a new way of being.
  zh: 我们被呼召离开那样的境况，进入一种崭新的生活方式。
- start: 533.522
  end: 537.344
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'The second image: Abraham.'
  zh: 第二个形象：亚伯拉罕。
- start: 538.104
  end: 554.872
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of Abraham, who is called out from Ur of the Chaldees, his home city, out from everything and everybody he knew, to go guided by the divine voice in search of the promised land.
  zh: 想想亚伯拉罕，他被从迦勒底的吾珥——他的故乡以及他所熟悉的一切——呼召出来，跟随神的声音，去寻找应许之地。
- start: 555.953
  end: 569.541
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Abraham became a wanderer, a pilgrim, called out of what he knew, called out of the familiar, now in search of something new and fresh promised.
  zh: 亚伯拉罕成了一位流浪者、朝圣者，被呼召离开他所熟悉的环境，去追寻那全新而美好的应许。
- start: 570.771
  end: 575.294
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So the Church, up and down the ages, has this Abrahamic quality.
  zh: 因此，教会在各个时代都具有这种「亚伯拉罕式」的特质。
- start: 576.154
  end: 586.161
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'There''s a kind of in-between dimension to the Church: we''ve been called away from something, and now we''re following the divine voice.'
  zh: 教会带有一种「在路上」的状态：我们被呼召离开某个处境，如今正跟随神的声音。
- start: 586.161
  end: 587.822
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Where exactly?
  zh: 究竟要往哪里去呢？
- start: 587.822
  end: 590.383
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I don't always know, but I'm trusting.
  zh: 我并不总是清楚，但我信赖。
- start: 590.644
  end: 593.085
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm on my way to the promised land.
  zh: 我正奔向那应许之地。
- start: 593.846
  end: 596.107
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: A third great figure for the Church?
  zh: 教会的第三个重要形象是谁呢？
- start: 597.028
  end: 597.348
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Moses.
  zh: 摩西。
- start: 597.348
  end: 616.369
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Moses himself, called out of Egypt, summoned by God, and then sent as liberator of his people to lead them out of slavery in search of the promised land—the same one that Abraham was seeking.
  zh: 摩西本人，被神呼召离开埃及，然后受差遣去解救他的百姓，带领他们脱离奴役，进入应许之地——也就是当初亚伯拉罕所追寻的那地。
- start: 616.569
  end: 624.55
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But Moses, leading his people through 40 years of the desert, again that in-between quality.
  zh: 然而，摩西带领他的百姓在旷野中走了四十年，再次体现那种「在旅途之中」的状态。
- start: 624.75
  end: 627.911
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Church is on the march; it's going somewhere.
  zh: 教会正向前行进；它有个目标所在。
- start: 628.564
  end: 633.328
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Out of slavery, yes, thank God, but not quite arrived where it's supposed to be.
  zh: 确实已经脱离奴役，感谢神，但尚未抵达它要去的终点。
- start: 633.328
  end: 645.476
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, that's all of us in the Church, in the Mystical Body of Jesus, in the nave—the ship of the Church—making our way through the stormy waters or across the desert.
  zh: 这正是我们所有身处教会、属于耶稣奥体的人，在教会的「船」——也就是圣殿的中殿——里，穿越波涛或旷野的旅程。
- start: 645.476
  end: 653.942
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Pick your metaphor, but we're in between what we've been called out of and what we're being called to.
  zh: 不管你用什么比喻，我们都仍处于被呼召离开的状态与正被呼召去往之处之间。
- start: 654.083
  end: 656.444
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Those are all images of the Church.
  zh: 这些都是教会的各种象征。
- start: 658.706
  end: 674.23
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I love this from now Saint Pope Paul VI. In his great encyclical Evangelii Nuntiandi, he says the Church doesn't have a mission; the Church is a mission.
  zh: 我非常喜欢现今的圣保禄六世教宗所说的。在他那部重要的《Evangelii Nuntiandi》通谕里，他说教会并非拥有一个使命，而是本身就是一个使命。
- start: 676.251
  end: 682.513
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Every aspect of the Church is a mission to announce Jesus Christ to the world.
  zh: 教会的一切层面都是为了向世人宣告耶稣基督的使命。
- start: 683.852
  end: 688.733
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Everything we are, everything we do, is all about the announcing of this mission.
  zh: 我们所有的存在、我们所做的一切，都是在宣示这一使命。
- start: 688.733
  end: 694.054
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's the journey we're on; that's the vocation we have as a Church.
  zh: 这就是我们正在经历的旅程，也是我们作为教会所领受的呼召。
- start: 694.834
  end: 699.135
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Bishop, the Church is described not just as Catholic but as Roman Catholic.
  zh: 主教，人们不仅将教会称为公教会，也称之为罗马公教会。
- start: 699.535
  end: 704.536
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What does this mean, and how does this particularity still express universality?
  zh: 这是什么意思？这样特殊的称谓又如何体现普遍性呢？
- start: 704.837
  end: 706.837
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, some people see that as a contradiction.
  zh: 是的，有些人觉得这是矛盾的。
- start: 706.837
  end: 711.918
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How can you be Catholic, meaning universal, and Roman, which seems very particular?
  zh: 你如何能即是公教，又是罗马，看起来好像非常局限呢？
- start: 712.179
  end: 718.382
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I would say it's an old biblical principle, which is you tend to get to the universal through the particular.
  zh: 我会说，这是一条古老的圣经原则：人往往是通过特殊而走向普遍。
- start: 718.382
  end: 724.444
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: God chooses this particular people, Israel, not for their own sake but for the sake of the world.
  zh: 神拣选了这个特别的民族——以色列，并不是为了他们自己，而是为了全世界。
- start: 724.484
  end: 731.387
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's this particular Christ, the Jew of the first century, who is also the Incarnation of the Logos, meant for everybody.
  zh: 同样，基督在历史上是第一世纪的犹太人，却同时是道成肉身，面向所有人。
- start: 731.427
  end: 737.27
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So it really isn't a contradiction; it's more of a biblical principle that goes to the many through the one.
  zh: 因此，这并非矛盾；更多的是一种「借着一个人惠及众人」的圣经原则。
- start: 737.75
  end: 749.159
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Rome, because of Peter and Paul—the two great apostles who died in Rome—Rome is especially significant because of Peter, who is the Prince of the Apostles, to whom Christ gave the keys to the kingdom.
  zh: 之所以是罗马，是因为彼得和保罗——这两位伟大的使徒都在罗马殉道。罗马在彼得的缘故之下尤其重要，因为彼得是使徒之长，基督曾将天国的钥匙交给他。
- start: 749.179
  end: 753.461
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so that's where the natural place of churchly leadership is.
  zh: 因此，教会的领导权自然而然也就定在那里。
- start: 753.562
  end: 759.365
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But it doesn't mean for a minute that it's unique to Rome or unique to Italy or to Europe.
  zh: 但这绝不意味着它只属于罗马、只属于意大利或者只属于欧洲。
- start: 759.485
  end: 762.947
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's through Peter to the whole world.
  zh: 它是借着彼得传向整个世界。
- start: 762.947
  end: 769.202
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, one reason why people like Peter and Paul went to Rome in the ancient world was that it was the center of things.
  zh: 你知道，彼得和保罗等人在古代为什么去罗马，其中一个原因就在于那里是当时的中心所在。
- start: 769.202
  end: 771.643
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You want to get this message out as widely as possible?
  zh: 你如果想要把这个讯息尽可能广传，
- start: 771.643
  end: 773.023
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You want to go there.
  zh: 那你就该去那个中心。
- start: 773.023
  end: 781.285
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The way someone today would say, I want to go to New York, or LA, or to London, or some center of communication, is similar to how they went to Rome.
  zh: 就像今天有人会说要去纽约、洛杉矶或伦敦这样的传播中心，当时的人也是同样的想法前往罗马。
- start: 783.506
  end: 796.369
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, the creed goes on to qualify this Church as one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic.
  zh: 好的，信经接着论述教会是独一、圣洁、大公并且使徒的。
- start: 796.98
  end: 801.442
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I want to just look briefly at each of those four classic characteristics.
  zh: 我想简要地看看这四个传统特质。
- start: 802.183
  end: 805.145
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: First of all, the Church is one.
  zh: 首先，教会是独一的。
- start: 805.145
  end: 807.366
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How come?
  zh: 为什么呢？
- start: 807.546
  end: 809.307
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, because God is one.
  zh: 因为神是独一的。
- start: 809.448
  end: 812.049
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Hear, O Israel: the Lord your God is God alone.'
  zh: 「以色列啊，你要听！耶和华——我们神，是独一的主。」
- start: 812.109
  end: 821.555
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Actus purus—the simple reality is one, and the purpose of the Church is to draw the whole world into the unity of God.
  zh: Actus purus——那绝对纯粹的实存是独一的，而教会的目标，就是把全世界带进神的合一。
- start: 821.975
  end: 825.237
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: God in the Bible is a great gathering force.
  zh: 在圣经中，神是伟大的聚合者。
- start: 826.638
  end: 830.021
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The devil, diabolos in Greek, means the scatterer.
  zh: 魔鬼在希腊文中是 diabolos，意为「分散者」。
- start: 830.282
  end: 835.748
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The devil scatters; God gathers into His own unity.
  zh: 魔鬼分散人群；神把人们聚集到祂自己的合一里。
- start: 835.748
  end: 837.95
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And that’s why we say the Church is one.
  zh: 这就是我们之所以说教会是独一的缘故。
- start: 837.95
  end: 841.474
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How about this from Paul to the Ephesians?
  zh: 看看保罗对以弗所人的一段话怎么样？
- start: 841.674
  end: 855.863
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He (Christ) has put all things under His feet and has made Him the head over all things for the Church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
  zh: 「祂（基督）叫万有都服在祂的脚下，使祂为教会作万有之首。教会是祂的身体，是那充满万有者所充满的。」
- start: 855.883
  end: 862.147
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That’s the great vision of all things being drawn under the lordship of Jesus.
  zh: 这就是万物都被纳入耶稣主权之下的宏大异象。
- start: 863.268
  end: 874.936
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But mind you, today especially, even as I kind of sing the praises of unity, people today have a keen sense of the dark side of unity.
  zh: 不过要注意，尤其在今天，即使我还在称颂合一，人们也敏锐地察觉到合一可能有阴暗面。
- start: 875.785
  end: 882.088
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It can sound monolithic, imperialistic, and oppressive.
  zh: 它可能听起来像是单一的、帝国式的、带有压迫性。
- start: 883.029
  end: 886.331
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We celebrate diversity and right difference.
  zh: 我们珍视多元与合理的差异。
- start: 887.112
  end: 889.153
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, how do we make sense of this?
  zh: 那么，我们要如何理解这一点呢？
- start: 889.453
  end: 903.581
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Notice, please, in the life of the Church, the unity we’re talking about here is not an imperialistic, domineering unity, but what I call an assimilating unity.
  zh: 请注意，在教会生活中，我们所说的合一并非帝国式、控制他人的合一，而是一种我所谓的「同化性合一」。
- start: 903.982
  end: 904.922
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What do I mean?
  zh: 这是什么意思呢？
- start: 905.325
  end: 913.947
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean that up and down the centuries, as the Church goes out to bring all people to Christ, it resists what it must.
  zh: 我的意思是，教会在各个世纪向外宣扬，将众人带给基督时，会对必须抵制的事物加以抵制。
- start: 913.947
  end: 919.808
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So there are always things in any given culture that are simply antipathetic to Christ; they have to be resisted.
  zh: 因此，在任何文化中，总有某些与基督相悖的事物；这些都必须被抵拒。
- start: 919.808
  end: 929.47
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But whenever it can, the Church, at its best, assimilates what’s good and true and beautiful from the cultures around it.
  zh: 但教会在状态最佳时，会尽力把周围文化中那些善的、真的、美的因素吸纳进来。
- start: 930.21
  end: 942.905
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of, from the earliest centuries, how the Church took in the work of the philosophers and the poets, how it sometimes took in even pagan festivals and customs and adapted them to the Church's purpose.
  zh: 想想教会在最初几个世纪如何接纳哲学家和诗人的作品，如何有时甚至接纳异教的节日和风俗，并将其调整为服务于教会的目的。
- start: 942.985
  end: 946.488
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of Thomas Aquinas using the philosophy of Aristotle.
  zh: 想想圣托马斯阿奎那如何运用亚里士多德的哲学。
- start: 946.488
  end: 950.191
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of John Henry Newman using the philosophy of Locke.
  zh: 再想想约翰·亨利·纽曼如何引用洛克的哲学。
- start: 950.191
  end: 955.034
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of St. John Paul II using the philosophy of Husserl.
  zh: 或想想圣若望保禄二世如何吸收胡塞尔的哲学思想。
- start: 955.395
  end: 968.941
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: At its best, the Church doesn't dominate, but rather it draws what's good and true and beautiful in the culture in an assimilating way into its unity.
  zh: 教会在最好的状态里并不支配他人，而是以「同化」的方式，将文化中一切善的、真的、美的元素纳入到教会的合一之中。
- start: 971.543
  end: 975.586
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The second great mark of the Church is that it's holy.
  zh: 教会的第二个重要标志，就是它是圣洁的。
- start: 976.687
  end: 979.949
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, the Church is holy because God is holy.
  zh: 之所以教会是圣洁的，是因为神本身是圣洁的。
- start: 980.729
  end: 989.035
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Kadosh in Hebrew—the angels sing, Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh—holy, holy, holy—it means set apart.
  zh: 在希伯来文中，「Kadosh」——天使所唱的「Kadosh，Kadosh，Kadosh」——意为「分别出来的」或「被分别为圣的」。
- start: 992.069
  end: 996.831
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: God is holy, and the Church is the vehicle by which God wants to make the whole world holy.
  zh: 神是圣洁的，而教会正是神使整个世界成为圣洁的管道。
- start: 997.151
  end: 1000.272
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Therefore, the Church has this quality.
  zh: 因此，教会具有这种特质。
- start: 1002.993
  end: 1008.835
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We speak of the Holy Spirit as the soul of the Mystical Body.
  zh: 我们称圣灵为奥体的灵魂。
- start: 1009.076
  end: 1017.979
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So the Church is the Mystical Body, the head of the Church is Christ, and the soul of the Church is the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 教会是奥体，教会的元首是基督，教会的灵魂则是圣灵。
- start: 1019.4
  end: 1037.874
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now think of the Church in its sacraments, especially the Eucharist, in its great saints, in its works of mercy, in its teaching, in its apostolic authority.
  zh: 现在想想教会的圣事，尤其是圣餐，还有教会中的伟大圣徒、怜悯的行动、教导以及使徒权威。
- start: 1039.096
  end: 1049.544
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In all these ways, the Church expresses its own holiness; it expresses the presence in it of the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete.
  zh: 借由这些方式，教会展现了它自身的圣洁，也彰显了圣灵——那保惠师——在其中的临在。
- start: 1052.526
  end: 1056.167
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And by this holiness, the Church attracts the world.
  zh: 教会正是凭借这份圣洁，吸引着全世界。
- start: 1057.528
  end: 1067.532
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I love that image, and Bernini had this very much in mind when he built the great colonnade in front of St. Peter's. They reach out like two great arms to draw in the world.
  zh: 我非常喜欢这个意象，而贝尼尼在设计圣彼得大殿前那宏伟的柱廊时，也正是抱持这样的想法：它们像两只巨大手臂一样，向外伸展，召唤世界。
- start: 1067.533
  end: 1072.595
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Every single time I stand in that piazza there in front of St. Peter's, I think of that.
  zh: 每次我站在圣彼得广场上，都会想到这个画面。
- start: 1072.635
  end: 1086.016
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And when I've been there with these giant crowds—hundreds of thousands of people gathered by these great arms—well, that's the unity of the Church and the holiness of the Church, which is attractive, has been up and down the ages.
  zh: 当我和那些人山人海的群众在一起——成千上万人被这两只巨大的手臂所环抱——那就是教会的合一以及教会的圣洁，它在历代都具有这样的吸引力。
- start: 1087.478
  end: 1095.644
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now you say, Okay, Bishop, I get all that, but what do you do with all the very unholy people who are part of the Church?
  zh: 现在你或许会说：「好的，主教，我明白这些道理，但对于那些教会中不那么圣洁的人，该怎么办呢？」
- start: 1095.764
  end: 1097.445
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, I understand.
  zh: 我明白你的疑问。
- start: 1097.886
  end: 1101.589
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Up and down the centuries, you can find plenty of sinners.
  zh: 在历代当中，我们确实能找到许多罪人。
- start: 1101.589
  end: 1108.114
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In fact, with the sole exception of the Blessed Mother, every single person who has ever been a member of the Church is a sinner.
  zh: 事实上，除了圣母之外，历代所有在教会里的人都是罪人。
- start: 1108.674
  end: 1111.076
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Every member of the Church today is a sinner.
  zh: 时至今日，教会所有成员也都是罪人。
- start: 1112.13
  end: 1117.553
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm not really surprised by that; the doctrine of original sin causes me to expect it.
  zh: 对此我并不感到惊讶；原罪的教义让我对此有所预期。
- start: 1118.974
  end: 1126.759
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And even the worst sins of its members do not compromise the essential holiness of the Church that I'm talking about.
  zh: 而且，即便教会成员犯下最严重的罪，也不会损及我所说的教会本质上的圣洁。
- start: 1127.66
  end: 1136.065
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Oh, it's a collection of a kind of motley crew, the Church, and it’s the spotless bride of Christ.
  zh: 是的，教会就像一个五花八门的聚合体，同时又是基督那无玷的新妇。
- start: 1136.065
  end: 1139.928
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's in that second quality where you see its holiness.
  zh: 也正是在那后者的特质上，你才能看出教会的圣洁所在。
- start: 1139.928
  end: 1146.187
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yes, you know the great parable Jesus told of the wheat and the tares, right?
  zh: 没错，你应该知道耶稣所讲的「麦子与稗子」这个重要比喻吧？
- start: 1146.407
  end: 1152.291
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The wheat is growing, and then sowed among the wheat are these weeds that compromise and grow up alongside.
  zh: 麦子在生长，但在麦子之间又撒下了这些混杂一起生长的稗子。
- start: 1152.331
  end: 1154.192
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why don't we just tear up all the weeds?
  zh: 那为何不把这些稗子都拔掉呢？
- start: 1154.192
  end: 1156.954
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, no, let them grow together.
  zh: 不，不。让它们一同生长吧。
- start: 1156.994
  end: 1159.476
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: At the last day, they'll be separated.
  zh: 到了末日，最终会将它们分开。
- start: 1159.476
  end: 1175.411
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So it goes in the life of the Church—its holiness is manifested, yes, in its great saints, especially in the sacraments and the Eucharist, but alongside that holiness, wrapped around it very often, are the sins of its members.
  zh: 教会的生活也是如此：它的圣洁确实在伟大的圣徒身上彰显出来，尤其在圣事和圣餐中，但这份圣洁常常也与教会成员的罪一起交织。
- start: 1175.711
  end: 1177.272
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, so it goes.
  zh: 好的，情况就是如此。
- start: 1177.493
  end: 1181.175
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Christ will make that discrimination at the end of time.
  zh: 到了终末，基督会作出那最终的区分。
- start: 1183.357
  end: 1189.983
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Church is one; the Church is holy; and the Church is Catholic.
  zh: 教会是独一的；教会是圣洁的；也教会是大公的。
- start: 1189.983
  end: 1195.647
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We hear from the lovely Greek phrase kata holos.
  zh: 人们常提到希腊文中很优美的短语「kata holos」。
- start: 1196.428
  end: 1205.166
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Holos means the whole, kata holos means according to the whole, so it means universal.
  zh: 「holos」意为「整体」，「kata holos」意指「根据整体」，所以表示普遍性。
- start: 1208.509
  end: 1214.213
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: God wants to draw not some people to Himself; He wants to draw everybody to Himself.
  zh: 神不只是要吸引一部分人归向祂，而是要让所有人都归向祂。
- start: 1214.614
  end: 1219.958
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: God’s not interested in getting just some nations, a few chosen nations; He wants all nations.
  zh: 神并不只想让某些国家或少数被拣选的民族来归属祂；祂要的是万国万民。
- start: 1221.619
  end: 1227.604
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Church is meant, therefore, to be a reality everywhere, all over the world.
  zh: 因此，教会应当遍及世界各地，存在于所有地方。
- start: 1228.775
  end: 1242.644
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Again, St. Paul says in Galatians, There's no longer Jew or Greek, no longer slave or free, no longer male or female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.
  zh: 再者，圣保罗在《加拉太书》中说：「并不分犹太人、希腊人，为奴的、自主的，或男或女，因为你们在基督耶稣里都成为一了」。
- start: 1242.644
  end: 1250.169
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Look at those three great divisions—those are three of the most fundamental ways that people in Paul's time divided themselves.
  zh: 瞧，那三个巨大的隔阂——在保罗那个时代，这是人们区分彼此最根本的三种方式。
- start: 1250.89
  end: 1254.072
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They stratified society along those lines.
  zh: 他们便依此将社会分层。
- start: 1254.913
  end: 1257.194
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, no, that's been overcome in Christ.
  zh: 不，不，这些隔阂在基督里都已被克服了。
- start: 1258.22
  end: 1263.123
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Don't tell me one group is in and one group is out, one group is up and one group is down, and all those that apply.
  zh: 不要告诉我谁进谁出，谁在上谁在下，以及这一切外在的区别。
- start: 1263.123
  end: 1268.007
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you're a Greek, well, the Jews are no good; if you're a Jew, the Greeks are no good.
  zh: 若你是希腊人，就说犹太人不行；若你是犹太人，就说希腊人不行。
- start: 1268.007
  end: 1272.45
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Male and female were sharply divided in a hierarchical way at that time.
  zh: 那时男与女之间也有严苛的等级区分。
- start: 1272.97
  end: 1278.294
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Paul’s saying, No, those divisions and stratifications are overcome in Christ.
  zh: 保罗宣告说：不，这些隔阂和阶层在基督里都已被克服。
- start: 1278.454
  end: 1280.836
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Kata holos, according to the whole.
  zh: 「kata holos」，意思是「按照整体」。
- start: 1281.376
  end: 1292.823
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That’s why the Church of Christ can never be limited to one place or one people or one language or one nation; that’s inimical to its catholicity.
  zh: 这就是为什么基督的教会绝不局限于某个地方、某个民族、某种语言或某个国家；那会违背教会的大公性。
- start: 1292.823
  end: 1298.471
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, John Paul II saw this so beautifully, and again, this is the tension.
  zh: 你知道，圣若望保禄二世对这一点看得极其透彻；然而，这也体现了一种张力。
- start: 1298.57
  end: 1301.393
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Does that mean that everything becomes monolithically one?
  zh: 这是否意味着一切都将变成单一的形态呢？
- start: 1301.393
  end: 1302.173
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, no.
  zh: 不，不是的。
- start: 1302.173
  end: 1313.904
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of the World Youth Days of John Paul, where he drew people from all over the world and encouraged these young kids to bring the flags of their nations and bring their songs and particular customs—terrific!
  zh: 想想若望保禄二世主持的世界青年日，他召集了来自世界各地的人们，鼓励这些年轻人带上各自国旗，带上他们的歌声与独特习俗——多美好啊！
- start: 1313.904
  end: 1323.312
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But then to realize beyond all those divisions there’s this great unity and catholicity of the Church.
  zh: 但在那些差异之上，却又有教会那宏大的合一性与大公性。
- start: 1323.829
  end: 1330.134
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Whether they’re from Poland or from Brazil or from the Philippines or from Canada, wherever they’re from, they were all Catholics.
  zh: 不论这些人来自波兰、巴西、菲律宾，或加拿大，或任何地方，他们都是公教徒。
- start: 1332.116
  end: 1335.959
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Kata holos, the universality of the Church—beautiful!
  zh: 「kata holos」——教会的普世性——多么美好！
- start: 1335.959
  end: 1336.479
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Beautiful!
  zh: 确实美好！
- start: 1336.479
  end: 1353.272
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Another dimension, if I can quote here one of my spiritual mentors, Cardinal Francis George of Chicago: he said the Catholic Church has all the gifts that Christ wants His people to have.'
  zh: 再说一个层面吧，如果我能在这里引用一位我属灵上的导师——芝加哥的方济·乔治枢机——他说：公教会拥有基督要祂子民所拥有的一切恩赐。
- start: 1353.959
  end: 1378.747
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: His point was, you know, other Christian denominations have gifts that Christ wanted His people to have, but the Catholic Church, the universal Church, has all the gifts—Scripture, the sacraments, the Eucharist, the Blessed Mother, apostolic authority, and the Pope, etc. Well, there's another aspect of its universality.
  zh: 他的意思是：其他基督教派也有基督要祂子民拥有的某些恩赐，但公教会，也就是这大公的教会，拥有所有的恩赐——圣经、圣事、圣餐、圣母、使徒权威以及教宗等等。因此，这也是教会普世性的另一个面向。
- start: 1379.204
  end: 1387.548
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, Cardinal George, mind you, always said this doesn't mean that other Christian denominations might not exercise some of those gifts better than we tend to do.
  zh: 当然，乔治枢机也始终强调，这并不意味着其他基督教派就无法比我们做得更好地运用其中某些恩赐。
- start: 1387.548
  end: 1397.532
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, I’ll fully admit that I’ve learned so much Scripture from Protestant scholars, learned so much about preaching, and have seen charismatic gifts in other denominations.
  zh: 好吧，我可以完全承认，我从新教学者那里学到了许多圣经知识，也学到许多有关讲道的内容，而且在其他教派中也看到了种种属灵的恩赐。
- start: 1397.952
  end: 1406.236
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the Catholic Church, I think Cardinal George is right, has all the gifts that Christ wants His people to have.
  zh: 但公教会确实如乔治枢机所言，拥有基督要祂子民所拥有的一切恩赐。
- start: 1407.409
  end: 1412.59
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The final mark the creed points out is apostolicity.
  zh: 信经指出的最后一个标志，就是使徒性。
- start: 1413.09
  end: 1415.891
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Church is apostolic.
  zh: 教会是使徒性的。
- start: 1416.671
  end: 1419.492
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know what it means, everybody?
  zh: 各位，你们知道这意味着什么吗？
- start: 1419.492
  end: 1431.734
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of the grandeur of the Catholic Church, stretching over the whole world and all of its institutions, all of its people, and the buildings associated with it—this grandeur of the Church.
  zh: 想一想公教会的宏伟，它遍及整个世界，拥有各种组织、无数信众，以及与教会有关的建筑——如此宏大的教会。
- start: 1432.114
  end: 1433.514
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How did it all start?
  zh: 这一切是如何开始的呢？
- start: 1434.575
  end: 1454.81
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: With this little band of 12 around Jesus, who walked the roads of Galilee with Him, who went fishing with Him, who sat and listened to Him, who stayed with Him—knew Him personally, intimately.
  zh: 最初不过是耶稣周围那十二个人的小团体，他们与祂同行在加利利的道路上，与祂一起打鱼，与祂同坐倾听，也与祂相伴——他们亲身、深刻地认识了耶稣。
- start: 1455.451
  end: 1457.172
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That’s where the Church started.
  zh: 那就是教会的开端。
- start: 1457.453
  end: 1464.237
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It’s not a philosophy, not a social movement, not a political organization.
  zh: 它不是一种哲学，也不是一场社会运动，更不是一个政治组织。
- start: 1464.457
  end: 1475.052
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Church is a band of brothers around Jesus, and from that original band came and comes the Church.
  zh: 教会是一群围绕在耶稣身边的弟兄，从那最初的团体孕育、发展出教会至今。
- start: 1475.072
  end: 1480.514
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We trace it back to those 12 who knew Him.
  zh: 我们可以追溯到那最初认识祂的十二个人。
- start: 1481.974
  end: 1483.655
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why is it called apostolic?
  zh: 为什么称它为「使徒性的」呢？
- start: 1483.655
  end: 1487.557
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, apostellane in Greek means to send, right?
  zh: 在希腊文中，「apostellane」的意思就是「差遣」，对吧？
- start: 1487.557
  end: 1492.958
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What did Jesus do with these 12? He didn’t just say, Well, come and listen to me; now let’s just stay there.
  zh: 耶稣对这十二个人做了什么？祂并没有说：「来吧，听我教导就好；然后我们就待在这里吧。」
- start: 1493.099
  end: 1497.26
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No. They listened to Him, they were formed by Him, and then—boom!—He
  zh: 不。他们先聆听祂，受祂塑造，然后——砰！祂
- start: 1497.26
  end: 1498.46
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: sent them out.
  zh: 差遣他们出去。
- start: 1498.54
  end: 1510.024
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And how wonderful that this little group—varying degrees of education, but none of them was in a worldly sense a particularly impressive figure—and yet they went out like rockets!
  zh: 这真太奇妙了：这小群人教育程度各异，而在世俗意义上没有哪一位算是大人物，可他们却「如火箭般」地被差遣出去！
- start: 1510.024
  end: 1514.865
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They went out to the ends of the world and to their deaths; they were all sent.
  zh: 他们走向世界各地，最终为此付出生命；他们都是被差遣的。
- start: 1515.069
  end: 1526.356
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, from that original energy comes the Church to this day—apostolic, grounded in them, and like them, sent out still.
  zh: 正是从那最初的动力开始，才有今日的教会——具有使徒性，奠基于他们，并且像他们一样继续被差遣。
- start: 1526.896
  end: 1536.182
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'That’s the whole stress today on the new evangelization: the Church that goes out from itself—that’s its apostolic quality.'
  zh: 这也就是当今推广「新福传」的重点：教会走向外在，这就是它所具备的使徒特质。
- start: 1537.458
  end: 1555.854
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Bishop, with all the corruption that has beset the Church up and down the ages, from bad popes to the scandals of the present day, how can we still claim that the Roman Catholic Church is guided by and filled with the Holy Spirit?
  zh: 主教，教会历代遭受的各种腐败，从不良的教宗到当今的丑闻，自古以来屡见不鲜。我们怎么还能宣称罗马公教会是由圣灵带领并且充满圣灵的呢？
- start: 1556.055
  end: 1562.24
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because in its essential structures, nature, and teaching, it remains holy.
  zh: 因为在它根本的结构、本质和教导上，教会依然是圣洁的。
- start: 1562.822
  end: 1570.927
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If every single pope from Peter until today had been hopelessly corrupt morally, would that undermine the sanctity of the Church?
  zh: 就算从彼得一直到今天的每一位教宗在道德上都完全败坏，这会不会破坏教会的圣洁呢？
- start: 1570.927
  end: 1572.988
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, not essentially.
  zh: 不会，从根本上来说并不会。
- start: 1573.068
  end: 1583.134
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The sanctity of the Church is connected to the sacraments, the liturgy, especially the Eucharist, to the great saints, and to the apostolic teaching tradition.
  zh: 教会的圣洁与圣事、礼仪（尤其是圣餐）、伟大的圣徒，以及使徒传承的教导紧密相连。
- start: 1583.134
  end: 1597.543
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, if any of the popes had taught some wild heresy—if any of the popes had said, You know, there are four persons in the Godhead, or said, Jesus really isn’t God, well then, the Church’s holiness would be compromised.
  zh: 但是，如果某位教宗曾经教导了极端的异端——比如声称神格中有四个位格，或说耶稣其实不是神——那么教会的圣洁就会被动摇。
- start: 1597.543
  end: 1602.805
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the moral failings of our leaders—I mean, it’s regrettable, obviously; no one wants it.
  zh: 然而，我们领袖的道德失败——当然，这是令人痛心的，没人期望看到这种情况。
- start: 1602.805
  end: 1610.188
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It’s certainly a counter-witness evangelically, but it wouldn’t in itself undermine the holiness of the Church.
  zh: 在福传层面，这无疑会产生负面影响，但它本身并不足以动摇教会的圣洁。
- start: 1610.189
  end: 1616.91
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In point of fact, the doctrine of original sin leads me to expect that people will go bad.
  zh: 事实上，原罪的教义使我本就预期会有人走向堕落。
- start: 1616.91
  end: 1619.231
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I’m not really surprised by that; I expect it.
  zh: 我对此并不感到惊奇；我一直有这样的准备。
- start: 1619.831
  end: 1623.432
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the Church—why wouldn’t the Church be set apart as holy?
  zh: 但是教会——为什么它不会被分别为圣呢？
- start: 1623.692
  end: 1628.153
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Can you think that the Church would be the one place where the devil wouldn’t feel so present?
  zh: 你认为教会就会成为魔鬼不想潜入的唯一地方吗？
- start: 1628.353
  end: 1628.993
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, of course!
  zh: 当然不会！
- start: 1628.993
  end: 1638.275
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I’ll pick up on that—the devil would be especially interested in trying to undermine the Church if the Church is the privileged means by which God wants to bring everyone to Himself.
  zh: 我还要再审视这个问题：如果教会是神预定要借此带领所有人走向祂的特权通道，那魔鬼必然对削弱教会尤其感兴趣。
- start: 1638.595
  end: 1642.918
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, if I were the devil, I’d go after that; I would try to undermine that.
  zh: 是啊，如果我是魔鬼，我就会盯紧那一点，极力想要破坏它。
- start: 1642.918
  end: 1645.739
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church.
  zh: 然而，「阴间的门不能胜过教会」。
- start: 1645.739
  end: 1650.922
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That means, in one way, the Holy Spirit will always preserve the Church in its integrity.
  zh: 这意味着，从某种意义上来说，圣灵会始终保守教会的完整无缺。
- start: 1650.922
  end: 1662.728
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But stay with that image about the gates of hell, because we think of it somehow as, Well, the devil won't be able to conquer us, but the gates of hell—that means we're coming after hell.
  zh: 但也要记住「阴间的门」这个意象，因为我们通常会想：「魔鬼无法战胜我们。」可当我们说到「阴间的门」时，也意味着我们要攻破阴间。
- start: 1663.228
  end: 1670.912
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Church is on the offensive, and the gates that protect the walls of hell—they're not going to prevail against us.
  zh: 教会是在主动出击，那些为阴间之墙护卫的大门无法挡住我们。
- start: 1671.152
  end: 1677.597
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so ultimately, the Church will be triumphant under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 因此，教会终将会在圣灵的带领下得胜。
- start: 1680.159
  end: 1687.505
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then the creed says to us, I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
  zh: 接着，信经对我们说：「我认洗礼，唯有一个，可以赦罪。」
- start: 1687.686
  end: 1692.129
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, we could do a whole sacramental theology; I'm not going to do that.
  zh: 当然，我们可以就此展开一整套圣事神学，但我不会在此进行。
- start: 1692.47
  end: 1700.416
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's a kind of coda to the creed, in a way, because after saying I believe, I believe, I believe, it says here, I confess.
  zh: 在某种程度上，这算是信经的一个结语。因为在前面多次说「我信、我信、我信」之后，这里便说道：「我认」。
- start: 1700.976
  end: 1709.299
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I think it's not talking about, in itself, one of the high doctrines but rather about a key practice in the life of the Church.
  zh: 我认为这里并非讲了一条极高深的教义，而是涉及教会生活中的一个关键实践。
- start: 1709.86
  end: 1713.201
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But see how important baptism is.
  zh: 但看看洗礼是多么重要。
- start: 1713.201
  end: 1721.184
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'And mind you, I''ve said this before: these creeds, like the Nicene Creed, ultimately came from the baptismal process.'
  zh: 而且请注意，我之前也提过：这些信经，像尼西亚信经，最终都源自于洗礼的过程。
- start: 1721.304
  end: 1724.886
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When someone was about to be baptized, they were asked, Do you believe?
  zh: 当有人即将受洗时，会被询问：「你信吗？」
