- start: 5.467
  end: 13.269
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It seems altogether appropriate that we should express our faith in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 我们向父、子和圣灵表达信仰，这似乎是完全恰当的。
- start: 16.55
  end: 22.271
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But isn't that at least questionable, even idolatrous?
  zh: 但这是否至少值得质疑，甚至可能是拜偶像？
- start: 22.271
  end: 24.812
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: To be professing belief in the Church?
  zh: 宣认对教会的信仰？
- start: 26.892
  end: 42.864
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'That we do profess this in the Creed signals perhaps the most fundamental truth about the Mystical Body: that it is a sacrament of Christ, that it participates in His divinity.'
  zh: 我们在信经中作此宣认，这表明了关于奥体最根本的真理：它是基督的圣事，分享祂的神性。
- start: 46.465
  end: 74.416
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The one holy Catholic and apostolic Church offers forgiveness, calls us out of the world, and invites us toward the light of the world to come.
  zh: 这独一、圣洁、大公、使徒的教会赐予赦免，呼召我们离开世界，邀请我们走向将来世界的光明。
- start: 74.416
  end: 82.977
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'We come now to the close of the Nicene Creed: I believe in one holy Catholic and apostolic Church.'
  zh: 现在我们来到尼西亚信经的结尾：我信独一、圣洁、大公、使徒的教会。
- start: 83.218
  end: 93.954
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Now here''s the first thing to notice: we believe in God, we believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, we believe in the Holy Spirit, and we believe in the Church.'
  zh: 首先要注意的是：我们信神，我们信独一的主耶稣基督，我们信圣灵，我们也信教会。
- start: 95.294
  end: 97.194
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What isn't the Church there for?
  zh: 教会的存在不是为了什么？
- start: 97.875
  end: 99.895
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Simply a human organization?
  zh: 仅仅是一个人类组织？
- start: 99.895
  end: 103.436
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If that's all it were, we wouldn't believe in it.
  zh: 如果仅仅如此，我们就不会相信它。
- start: 103.896
  end: 125.105
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We might accept it, and we might say, Okay, that's a good thing to have, but to profess one's belief in the Church is a sign that there's something divine in it, about the Church making it not simply an organization, if I can put it this way, but an organism.
  zh: 我们可能会接受它，可能会说，好吧，有这个是好事，但宣认对教会的信仰表明教会中有神性的成分，这使教会不仅仅是一个组织，如果我可以这样说的话，而是一个有机体。
- start: 125.746
  end: 132.352
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Here''s what I mean: the second person of the Trinity took to Himself a human nature.'
  zh: 我的意思是：三位一体的第二位取了人性。
- start: 132.352
  end: 134.233
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We call that the Incarnation.
  zh: 我们称之为道成肉身。
- start: 134.694
  end: 141.82
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In Jesus, the second person of the Trinity now takes to Himself this icon of His presence.
  zh: 在耶稣里，三位一体的第二位现在取了这个彰显祂同在的形象。
- start: 144.045
  end: 150.95
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Jesus rises from the dead, ascends to His heavenly place, and remains there in His glorified body.
  zh: 耶稣从死里复活，升上天堂，在那里以祂荣耀的身体存在。
- start: 152.052
  end: 162.8
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But then the second person of the Trinity takes to Himself, as it were, another nature—this time, the Church.
  zh: 但随后三位一体的第二位又取了，可以说是另一个本性——这一次是教会。
- start: 164.381
  end: 171.147
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: With its roots in St. Paul, we have this idea of the Mystical Body of Jesus.
  zh: 这种耶稣奥体的观念源自圣保罗。
- start: 171.187
  end: 173.428
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's the body He took to Himself 2,000 years ago.
  zh: 这就是祂两千年前为自己取的身体。
- start: 174.614
  end: 181.578
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And then there's this Mystical Body that He takes to Himself across space and time.
  zh: 然后还有这个超越时空的奥体，是祂为自己所取的。
- start: 182.859
  end: 195.026
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: All of us baptized are cells and molecules and organs in this Mystical Body, which is now the means by which Jesus continues to do His work in the Church.
  zh: 我们这些受洗的人都是这奥体中的细胞、分子和器官，耶稣现在就是通过这奥体在教会中继续祂的工作。
- start: 195.026
  end: 200.929
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do you see now why it's so inappropriate to refer to the Church simply as an organization?
  zh: 你现在明白为什么把教会仅仅称为一个组织是如此不恰当了吗？
- start: 202.41
  end: 208.77
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, no, it's a living organism by which Christ continues to act in the Church.
  zh: 不，不，它是一个活的有机体，基督通过它在教会中继续行动。
- start: 208.89
  end: 213.151
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think now in the New Testament, in the Acts of the Apostles.
  zh: 现在想想新约中使徒行传的记载。
- start: 214.251
  end: 217.472
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Jesus appears to Saul on the road to Damascus.
  zh: 耶稣在大马士革的路上向扫罗显现。
- start: 218.373
  end: 223.514
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He says, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?
  zh: 祂说：「扫罗，扫罗，你为什么逼迫我？」
- start: 224.214
  end: 228.355
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He didn't say, Why are you persecuting that organization that I founded?
  zh: 祂没有说：「你为什么逼迫我所建立的那个组织？」
- start: 228.495
  end: 231.256
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He said, Why are you persecuting me?
  zh: 祂说：「你为什么逼迫我？」
- start: 233.217
  end: 239.79
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Matthew 25 says, Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers and sisters, you do it to me.
  zh: 马太福音二十五章说：「这些事你们既做在我这弟兄中一个最小的身上，就是做在我身上了。」
- start: 240.091
  end: 245.292
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He's not saying, Well, you do it to these nice people that have organized themselves under my inspiration.
  zh: 祂不是在说：「好吧，你们对这些在我感召下组织起来的好人做了这些事。」
- start: 245.292
  end: 247.073
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, no, you do it to me.
  zh: 不，不，你们是做在我身上。
- start: 247.073
  end: 253.175
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's how close Christ identifies with His body, the Church.
  zh: 这就是基督如何与祂的身体——教会——紧密认同。
- start: 254.495
  end: 263.178
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Put it this way: the Church is the means by which we become, as it were, participants in the very life of the Trinity.'
  zh: 可以这样说：教会是我们藉以成为三位一体生命的参与者的途径。
- start: 264.497
  end: 269.578
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: As I said, we become sons and daughters in the Son.
  zh: 如我所说，我们在圣子里成为神的儿女。
- start: 271.679
  end: 280.101
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, sometimes you hear the objection, Well, why would Catholics have this institution that stands between them and Jesus?
  zh: 你知道，有时你会听到这样的反对意见：为什么公教徒要在他们和耶稣之间设立这个制度？
- start: 280.541
  end: 283.062
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why would we need this sort of mediator?
  zh: 为什么我们需要这样的中介？
- start: 283.062
  end: 285.602
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, we just don't think of it that way.
  zh: 嗯，我们根本不是这样想的。
- start: 286.162
  end: 291.704
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, I wouldn't say that my body is somehow mediating the real me to you.
  zh: 我的意思是，我不会说我的身体是在某种程度上向你传达真实的我。
- start: 291.704
  end: 294.851
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, I mean, my body—that's the real me.
  zh: 不，我是说，我的身体——那就是真实的我。
- start: 295.752
  end: 306.175
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's how you know me, precisely through my presence, my voice, etc. In the same way, we don't think of the Church as some institution standing between us and Jesus.
  zh: 这就是你认识我的方式，正是通过我的同在、我的声音等。同样地，我们不认为教会是站在我们和耶稣之间的某个制度。
- start: 307.315
  end: 310.376
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I love this from St. Joan of Arc.
  zh: 我很喜欢圣女贞德说过的这段话。
- start: 310.376
  end: 324.797
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'When she was being interrogated at her trial, she said this about Jesus Christ and the Church: I simply know they''re just one thing, and we shouldn''t complicate the matter.'
  zh: 在她受审时，她谈到耶稣基督和教会时说：「我只知道他们是同一个事物，我们不应该把事情复杂化。」
- start: 325.378
  end: 331.321
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's a great expression of the Church as organism, not as organization.
  zh: 这很好地表达了教会作为有机体而非组织的本质。
- start: 332.362
  end: 340.326
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now the word Church in Greek, used all the time in the New Testament, is ekklesia.
  zh: 新约中经常使用的「教会」这个词，在希腊文中是ekklesia。
- start: 340.387
  end: 344.569
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So our words, you know, ecclesiastic and ecclesiastical, come from that.
  zh: 所以你知道，我们的「教会的」这类词就是从这个词来的。
- start: 344.829
  end: 352.954
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But ekklesia is an interesting word because, as I mentioned before, kalein means to call, and ek means from or out of.
  zh: 但ekklesia是个有趣的词，因为正如我之前提到的，kalein的意思是呼召，而ek的意思是从或出自。
- start: 354.195
  end: 361.38
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So an ekklesia is a group of people who've been called out of something into something else.
  zh: 所以ekklesia是一群被从某处呼召出来进入另一处的人。
- start: 361.38
  end: 365.923
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They've been called forth to be something new.
  zh: 他们被呼召出来成为新的事物。
- start: 367.204
  end: 373.168
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So the Church is called by somebody out of something into something else.
  zh: 所以教会是被某位从某处呼召出来进入另一处的。
- start: 373.769
  end: 374.809
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, who does the calling?
  zh: 那么，是谁在呼召呢？
- start: 374.809
  end: 377.311
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'That should be pretty clear: Jesus.'
  zh: 这应该很清楚：是耶稣。
- start: 377.952
  end: 382.835
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's not you who have chosen me; it's I who have chosen you.
  zh: 「不是你们拣选了我，是我拣选了你们。」
- start: 383.388
  end: 387.189
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: As I've said before, Christianity is not the story of our quest for God.
  zh: 正如我之前所说，基督信仰不是我们寻求神的故事。
- start: 387.189
  end: 389.51
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, that's any spirituality.
  zh: 我是说，那是任何灵修都有的。
- start: 391.331
  end: 395.212
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, no, it's not you who have chosen me; you've come searching for me.
  zh: 不，不，不是你们拣选了我，你们来寻找我。
- start: 395.212
  end: 396.673
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I've chosen you.
  zh: 是我拣选了你们。
- start: 397.373
  end: 401.434
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Christ calls us out of what?
  zh: 基督把我们从什么中呼召出来？
- start: 401.775
  end: 404.736
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Out of the world, to use that biblical term.
  zh: 用圣经的话说，是从世界中呼召出来。
- start: 405.196
  end: 406.616
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What's the world?
  zh: 什么是世界？
- start: 406.937
  end: 414.534
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It means that whole world—conjuries of styles and institutions and influences marked by sin.
  zh: 它指的是整个世界——被罪所标记的风尚、制度和影响力的集合。
- start: 414.534
  end: 424.98
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It means the space of selfishness and violence and what Augustine called the lust to dominate.
  zh: 它指的是自私、暴力，以及奥古斯丁所说的统治欲望的空间。
- start: 424.98
  end: 427.481
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of the fallen world.
  zh: 想想这堕落的世界。
- start: 427.721
  end: 442.214
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We're called out of that by Christ into something else—into a whole new way of being, thinking, speaking, acting.
  zh: 基督把我们从那里呼召出来，进入另一种状态——进入一种全新的生存、思考、言说和行动方式。
- start: 442.215
  end: 443.495
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's the Church.
  zh: 这就是教会。
- start: 444.777
  end: 457.287
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And called not just into the Church in this world, but ultimately into that fullness of communion with Christ on high in heaven.
  zh: 并且不仅仅是被呼召进入这世上的教会，最终是被呼召进入天上与基督完全的共融。
- start: 457.287
  end: 464.872
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There are three figures from the Old Testament that I think are really evocative of all this dimension.
  zh: 在旧约中有三个人物，我认为他们很好地展现了这些层面。
- start: 464.872
  end: 468.273
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And the Church Fathers love to meditate on this.
  zh: 教父们喜欢默想这一点。
- start: 468.373
  end: 471.034
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The first one is Noah.
  zh: 第一个是挪亚。
- start: 471.555
  end: 478.078
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of the great biblical figure of Noah—Noah, who is called out of the sinful world.
  zh: 想想圣经中伟大的人物挪亚——被从罪恶的世界中呼召出来的挪亚。
- start: 478.258
  end: 484.621
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So the tohu vabohu of sin has come rushing back into the world; that's what the floodwaters symbolize.
  zh: 罪的混沌已经涌回世界，这就是洪水所象征的。
- start: 485.376
  end: 501.661
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But God calls Noah and his little family, and representatives of the animal kingdom, out of that fallen world into the Ark, which is a place of safety where that life is preserved.
  zh: 但神呼召挪亚和他的小家庭，以及动物界的代表，从那堕落的世界进入方舟，那是一个保全生命的安全之所。
- start: 502.001
  end: 504.822
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's a beautiful image of the Church, isn't it?
  zh: 这是教会的一个美好图像，不是吗？
- start: 506.423
  end: 510.764
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In fact, churches classically were meant to look a bit like boats.
  zh: 事实上，传统上教堂的设计本就是要看起来有点像船。
- start: 511.653
  end: 522.757
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The central section—I look down the central section of this beautiful basilica—this church is called the nave, from the Latin navis, meaning boat or ship.
  zh: 这座美丽大殿的中央部分——我看着这中央部分——被称为中殿，这个词来自拉丁文navis，意思是船。
- start: 524.078
  end: 528.7
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So Noah is a symbol of the Church as we make our way through the stormy waters of the world.
  zh: 所以挪亚象征着教会，象征着我们穿越世界风暴之水的旅程。
- start: 528.7
  end: 531.981
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We've been called out of that into a new way of being.
  zh: 我们被从那里呼召出来，进入一种新的生存方式。
- start: 533.522
  end: 537.344
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The second image is Abraham.
  zh: 第二个形象是亚伯拉罕。
- start: 538.104
  end: 554.872
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of Abraham, who is called out from Ur of the Chaldees, his home city, out from everything and everybody he knew, to go, guided by the divine voice, in search of the promised land.
  zh: 想想亚伯拉罕，他被从迦勒底的吾珥，从他的家乡，从他所认识的一切人和事物中呼召出来，在神声音的引导下寻找应许之地。
- start: 555.953
  end: 569.541
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Abraham became a wanderer, a pilgrim, called out of what he knew, called out of the familiar, now in search of something new and fresh promised.
  zh: 亚伯拉罕成了一个流浪者，一个朝圣者，被从他所熟悉的一切中呼召出来，去寻找新的、新鲜的应许之物。
- start: 570.771
  end: 575.294
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So the Church, up and down the ages, has this Abrahamic quality.
  zh: 因此，教会在历代以来都具有这种亚伯拉罕的特质。
- start: 576.154
  end: 581.397
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's a kind of in-between dimension to the Church.
  zh: 教会有一种介于两者之间的维度。
- start: 581.538
  end: 586.161
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We've been called away from something, and now we're following the divine voice.
  zh: 我们被从某处呼召离开，现在正跟随着神的声音。
- start: 586.161
  end: 587.822
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Where exactly?
  zh: 具体去向何方？
- start: 587.822
  end: 590.383
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I don't always know, but I'm trusting.
  zh: 我并不总是知道，但我信靠。
- start: 590.644
  end: 593.085
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm on my way to the promised land.
  zh: 我正在前往应许之地的路上。
- start: 593.846
  end: 596.107
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: A third great figure for the Church?
  zh: 教会的第三个伟大形象是？
- start: 597.028
  end: 597.348
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Moses.
  zh: 摩西。
- start: 597.348
  end: 616.369
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Moses himself, called out of Egypt, summoned by God, and then sent as liberator of his people to lead them out of slavery in search of the promised land—the same one that Abraham was seeking.
  zh: 摩西本人被从埃及呼召出来，蒙神呼召，然后被差遣作他百姓的解放者，带领他们出离奴役，寻找应许之地——就是亚伯拉罕所寻找的那地。
- start: 616.569
  end: 627.911
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'But Moses, leading his people through 40 years of the desert, again that in-between quality: the Church is on the march; it''s going somewhere.'
  zh: 但摩西带领他的百姓经过四十年旷野，再次展现那种过渡性的特质：教会在行进中，正在前往某处。
- start: 628.564
  end: 633.328
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Out of slavery, yes, thank God, but not quite arrived where it's supposed to be.
  zh: 是的，感谢神，已经出离奴役，但还未完全到达应去之处。
- start: 633.328
  end: 645.476
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, that's all of us in the Church, in the Mystical Body of Jesus, in the nave, the ship of the Church, making our way through the stormy waters or across the desert.
  zh: 这就是我们所有在教会中的人，在耶稣的奥体中，在教会的船中，穿越风暴之水或横越旷野。
- start: 645.476
  end: 653.942
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Pick your metaphor, but we're in between what we've been called out of and what we're being called to.
  zh: 不管你选择哪个比喻，我们都处在被呼召离开之处和被呼召前往之处的中间。
- start: 654.083
  end: 656.444
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Those are all images of the Church.
  zh: 这些都是教会的形象。
- start: 658.706
  end: 667.549
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I love this from now Saint Pope Paul VI in his great encyclical Evangelii Nuntiandi.
  zh: 我很喜欢现在的圣教宗保禄六世在他伟大的通谕《传福音》中说的话。
- start: 667.949
  end: 674.23
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He says, The Church doesn't have a mission; the Church is a mission.
  zh: 他说，教会不是有使命，教会就是使命。
- start: 676.251
  end: 682.513
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Every aspect of the Church is a mission to announce Jesus Christ to the world.
  zh: 教会的每个方面都是向世界宣告耶稣基督的使命。
- start: 683.852
  end: 688.733
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Everything we are, everything we do, is all about the announcing of this mission.
  zh: 我们的一切所是，一切所为，都是关乎宣告这个使命。
- start: 688.733
  end: 694.054
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's the journey we're on; that's the vocation we have as a Church.
  zh: 这就是我们所走的旅程，这就是我们作为教会的召命。
- start: 694.834
  end: 699.135
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Bishop, the Church is described not just as Catholic but as Roman Catholic.
  zh: 主教，教会不仅被描述为公教会，还被称为罗马公教会。
- start: 699.535
  end: 704.536
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What does this mean, and then how does this particularity still express universality?
  zh: 这是什么意思？这种特殊性如何仍然表达普世性？
- start: 704.837
  end: 706.837
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, some people see that as a contradiction.
  zh: 是的，有些人认为这是矛盾的。
- start: 706.837
  end: 711.918
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How can you be Catholic, meaning universal, and Roman, which seems very particular?
  zh: 你怎么能既是公教的（意味着普世的），又是罗马的（这似乎很特殊）？
- start: 712.179
  end: 718.162
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I would say it's an old biblical principle, which is you tend to get to the universal through the particular.
  zh: 我要说这是一个古老的圣经原则，就是你往往通过特殊到达普世。
- start: 718.162
  end: 724.444
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So God chooses this particular people, Israel, not for their own sake but for the sake of the world.
  zh: 所以神拣选这特定的民族以色列，不是为了他们自己，而是为了世界。
- start: 724.484
  end: 731.387
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's this particular Christ, the Jew of the first century, who is also the incarnation of the Logos meant for everybody.
  zh: 这位特定的基督，一世纪的犹太人，同时也是为所有人而道成肉身的道。
- start: 731.427
  end: 737.27
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So it really isn't a contradiction; it's more of a biblical principle that to the many, through the one.
  zh: 所以这实际上不是矛盾，更多是一个圣经原则：通过一个到达众多。
- start: 737.75
  end: 749.159
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Rome, because of Peter and Paul, the two great apostles who died in Rome—Rome, especially because of Peter, who is the prince of the apostles, to whom Christ gave the keys to the kingdom.
  zh: 罗马，因为彼得和保罗，这两位在罗马殉道的伟大使徒——特别是因为彼得，他是使徒之首，基督把天国的钥匙交给了他。
- start: 749.179
  end: 753.461
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so that's where the natural place of churchly leadership is.
  zh: 所以这自然成为教会领导权所在之处。
- start: 753.562
  end: 759.365
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But it doesn't mean for a minute that it's unique to Rome or unique to Italy or to Europe.
  zh: 但这绝不意味着它是罗马独有的，或是意大利独有的，或是欧洲独有的。
- start: 759.485
  end: 762.947
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's through Peter to the whole world.
  zh: 是通过彼得传向全世界。
- start: 762.947
  end: 769.202
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, one reason why people like Peter and Paul went to Rome in the ancient world was it was the center of things.
  zh: 你知道，在古代像彼得和保罗这样的人去罗马的一个原因是，那里是万物的中心。
- start: 769.202
  end: 771.643
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You want to get this message out as widely as possible?
  zh: 你想让这信息尽可能广泛传播吗？
- start: 771.643
  end: 773.023
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You want to go there.
  zh: 你就要去那里。
- start: 773.023
  end: 781.285
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The way someone today would say, I want to go to New York or LA or to London, or some center of communication, so they went to Rome.
  zh: 就像今天有人会说，我要去纽约或洛杉矶或伦敦，或某个传播中心一样，他们就去了罗马。
- start: 783.506
  end: 796.369
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, the Creed goes on to qualify this Church as one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic.
  zh: 好的，信经继续描述这教会是独一、圣洁、大公、使徒的。
- start: 796.98
  end: 801.442
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I want to just look briefly at each of those four classic characteristics.
  zh: 我想简要看看这四个经典特征。
- start: 802.183
  end: 805.145
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: First of all, the Church is one.
  zh: 首先，教会是独一的。
- start: 805.145
  end: 807.366
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How come?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 807.546
  end: 809.307
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, because God is one.
  zh: 因为神是独一的。
- start: 809.448
  end: 812.049
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Hear, O Israel: the Lord your God is God alone.'
  zh: 「以色列啊，你要听：耶和华我们的神是独一的主。」
- start: 812.109
  end: 821.555
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Actus purus—the simple reality is one, and the purpose of the Church is to draw the whole world into the unity of God.
  zh: 纯粹现实是独一的，教会的目的是将全世界带入神的合一中。
- start: 821.975
  end: 830.021
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: God in the Bible is a great gathering force; the devil, diabolos in Greek, means the scatterer.
  zh: 圣经中的神是一个伟大的聚集力量；魔鬼，希腊文diabolos，意思是分散者。
- start: 830.282
  end: 837.95
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The devil scatters; God gathers into His own unity, and that's why we say the Church is one.
  zh: 魔鬼分散；神聚集归于祂的合一，这就是为什么我们说教会是独一的。
- start: 837.95
  end: 841.474
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: How about this from Paul to the Ephesians?
  zh: 保罗写给以弗所人的这段话如何？
- start: 841.674
  end: 855.863
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He [Christ] has put all things under His feet and has made Him the head over all things for the Church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
  zh: 「使万有服在祂的脚下，又使祂为教会作万有之首。教会是祂的身体，是那充满万有者所充满的。」
- start: 855.883
  end: 862.147
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's the great vision of all things being drawn under the lordship of Jesus.
  zh: 这是万有归于耶稣主权之下的伟大异象。
- start: 863.268
  end: 874.936
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But mind you, today especially, even as I kind of sing the praises of unity, people today have a keen sense of the dark side of unity.
  zh: 但请注意，尤其是今天，即使我在赞美合一，人们对合一的阴暗面也有敏锐的感觉。
- start: 875.785
  end: 882.088
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It can sound like the monolithic, the imperialistic, the oppressive.
  zh: 这可能听起来像是单一的、帝国主义的、压迫性的。
- start: 883.029
  end: 885.291
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We celebrate diversity, right?
  zh: 我们赞美多样性，对吧？
- start: 885.291
  end: 886.331
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Difference.
  zh: 差异性。
- start: 887.112
  end: 889.153
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, how do we make sense of this?
  zh: 那么，我们如何理解这一点？
- start: 889.453
  end: 903.581
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Notice, please, in the life of the Church, the unity we're talking about here is not an imperialistic, domineering unity, but what I call an assimilating unity.
  zh: 请注意，在教会的生活中，我们所说的合一不是帝国主义式的、专制的合一，而是我所说的同化性的合一。
- start: 903.982
  end: 904.922
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What do I mean?
  zh: 我是什么意思？
- start: 905.325
  end: 913.947
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, up and down the centuries, as the Church goes out to bring all people to Christ, it resists what it must.
  zh: 我的意思是，纵观几个世纪，当教会出去把万民带到基督面前时，它抵制必须抵制的。
- start: 913.947
  end: 919.808
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So there are always things in any given culture that are simply antipathetic to Christ; they have to be resisted.
  zh: 所以在任何文化中总有一些与基督相对的东西，这些必须抵制。
- start: 919.808
  end: 929.47
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But whenever it can, the Church, at its best, assimilates what's good and true and beautiful from the cultures around it.
  zh: 但只要可能，教会在最好的状态下会吸收周围文化中美善真实的东西。
- start: 930.21
  end: 942.905
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of, from the earliest centuries, how the Church took in the work of the philosophers and the poets, how it sometimes took in even pagan festivals and customs and adapted them to the Church's purpose.
  zh: 想想从最早的几个世纪起，教会是如何吸收哲学家和诗人的作品，有时甚至吸收异教节日和习俗，使之适应教会的目的。
- start: 942.985
  end: 946.488
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of Thomas Aquinas using the philosophy of Aristotle.
  zh: 想想托马斯·阿奎那如何运用亚里士多德的哲学。
- start: 946.488
  end: 950.191
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of John Henry Newman using the philosophy of Locke.
  zh: 想想约翰·亨利·纽曼如何运用洛克的哲学。
- start: 950.191
  end: 955.034
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of St. John Paul II using the philosophy of Husserl.
  zh: 想想圣若望保禄二世如何运用胡塞尔的哲学。
- start: 955.395
  end: 968.941
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: At its best, the Church doesn't dominate but rather draws what's good and true and beautiful in the culture in an assimilating way into its unity.
  zh: 在最好的状态下，教会不是支配，而是以同化的方式将文化中美善真实的东西吸收进其合一之中。
- start: 971.543
  end: 975.586
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The second great mark of the Church is that it's holy.
  zh: 教会的第二个伟大标记是它是圣洁的。
- start: 976.687
  end: 982.831
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, the Church is holy because God is holy—kadosh, the Hebrew.
  zh: 教会是圣洁的因为神是圣洁的——希伯来文是kadosh。
- start: 982.991
  end: 987.094
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The angels sing, Kadosh, kadosh, kadosh—holy, holy, holy.
  zh: 天使歌唱：「Kadosh，kadosh，kadosh」——圣哉，圣哉，圣哉。
- start: 987.234
  end: 989.035
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It means set apart.
  zh: 这意味着分别出来。
- start: 992.069
  end: 996.831
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: God is holy, and the Church is the vehicle by which God wants to make the whole world holy.
  zh: 神是圣洁的，教会是神要使全世界成圣的器皿。
- start: 997.151
  end: 1000.272
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Therefore, the Church has this quality.
  zh: 因此，教会具有这种特质。
- start: 1002.993
  end: 1008.835
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We speak of the Holy Spirit as the soul of the Mystical Body.
  zh: 我们说圣灵是奥体的灵魂。
- start: 1009.076
  end: 1017.979
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So the Church is the Mystical Body, the head of the Church, Christ; the soul of the Church, the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 所以教会是奥体，教会的头是基督；教会的灵魂是圣灵。
- start: 1019.4
  end: 1037.874
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now think of the Church in its sacraments, especially the Eucharist, in its great saints, in its works of mercy, in its teaching, in its apostolic authority.
  zh: 现在想想教会的圣事，特别是圣餐，想想它的伟大圣徒，它的怜悯工作，它的教导，它的使徒权柄。
- start: 1039.096
  end: 1049.544
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In all these ways, the Church expresses its own holiness; it expresses the presence in it of the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete.
  zh: 教会通过这一切方式表达其圣洁；表达圣灵，保惠师在其中的同在。
- start: 1052.526
  end: 1056.167
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And by this holiness, the Church attracts the world.
  zh: 通过这种圣洁，教会吸引世界。
- start: 1057.528
  end: 1067.532
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I love that image, and Bernini had this very much in mind when he built the great colonnade in front of St. Peter's. They reach out like two great arms to draw in the world.
  zh: 我喜爱这个意象，贝尼尼在建造圣彼得大殿前的巨大柱廊时就很注意这一点。它们像两条伟大的臂膀伸展开来，要拥抱世界。
- start: 1067.533
  end: 1072.595
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Every single time I stand in that piazza there in front of St. Peter's, I think of that.
  zh: 每次我站在圣彼得大殿前的广场上，我都会想到这一点。
- start: 1072.635
  end: 1083.995
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And when I've been there with these giant crowds—hundreds of thousands of people gathered by these great arms—well, that's the unity of the Church and the holiness of the Church, which is attractive.
  zh: 当我在那里看到这些巨大的人群——数十万人被这些伟大的臂膀聚集在一起——这就是教会的合一和教会的圣洁，是如此吸引人。
- start: 1083.995
  end: 1086.016
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It has been up and down the ages.
  zh: 这种情况历代都有起伏。
- start: 1087.478
  end: 1095.644
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now you say, Okay, Bishop, I get all that, but what do you do with all the very unholy people who are part of the Church?
  zh: 现在你说，好的，主教，我明白这些，但对于那些作为教会一分子的不圣洁的人，你怎么看？
- start: 1095.764
  end: 1097.445
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, I understand.
  zh: 嗯，我理解。
- start: 1097.886
  end: 1101.589
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Up and down the centuries, you can find plenty of sinners.
  zh: 纵观几个世纪，你能找到许多罪人。
- start: 1101.589
  end: 1108.114
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In fact, with the sole exception of the Blessed Mother, every single person who has ever been a member of the Church is a sinner.
  zh: 事实上，除了蒙福的圣母，每一个曾经作为教会成员的人都是罪人。
- start: 1108.674
  end: 1111.076
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Every member of the Church today is a sinner.
  zh: 今天教会的每个成员都是罪人。
- start: 1112.13
  end: 1117.553
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm not really surprised by that; the doctrine of original sin causes me to expect it.
  zh: 我对此并不感到惊讶；原罪的教义使我预料到这一点。
- start: 1118.974
  end: 1126.759
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And even the worst sins of its members do not compromise the essential holiness of the Church that I'm talking about.
  zh: 即使是其成员最严重的罪，也不会损害我所说的教会本质的圣洁。
- start: 1127.66
  end: 1136.065
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Oh, it's a collection of a kind of motley crew, the Church, and it's the spotless Bride of Christ.
  zh: 啊，教会是一群杂乱人员的集合，但它也是基督无瑕的新妇。
- start: 1136.065
  end: 1139.928
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's that second quality where you see its holiness.
  zh: 从这第二个特质中你能看到它的圣洁。
- start: 1139.928
  end: 1146.187
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yes, you know the great parable Jesus told of the wheat and the tares, right?
  zh: 是的，你知道耶稣讲的麦子和稗子的伟大比喻，对吧？
- start: 1146.407
  end: 1152.291
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The wheat is growing, and then sown among the wheat are these weeds that compromise, and they grow up alongside.
  zh: 麦子在生长，而稗子被撒在麦子中间，它们一起生长。
- start: 1152.331
  end: 1154.192
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why don't we just tear up all the weeds?
  zh: 为什么我们不把所有的稗子都拔掉呢？
- start: 1154.192
  end: 1156.954
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, no, let them grow together.
  zh: 不，不，让它们一起生长。
- start: 1156.994
  end: 1159.476
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: At the last day, they'll be separated.
  zh: 在末日，它们将被分开。
- start: 1159.476
  end: 1162.117
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So it goes in the life of the Church.
  zh: 教会的生活就是如此。
- start: 1162.318
  end: 1175.411
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Its holiness is manifested, yes, in its great saints, especially in the sacraments and the Eucharist, but alongside that holiness, wrapped around it very often, are the sins of its members.
  zh: 是的，它的圣洁在其伟大的圣徒中显明，特别是在圣事和圣餐中，但在这圣洁之旁，经常环绕着的是其成员的罪。
- start: 1175.711
  end: 1177.272
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, so it goes.
  zh: 好吧，就是这样。
- start: 1177.493
  end: 1181.175
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Christ will make that discrimination at the end of time.
  zh: 基督将在末时作出分别。
- start: 1183.357
  end: 1189.983
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Church is one, the Church is holy, and the Church is Catholic.
  zh: 教会是独一的，教会是圣洁的，教会是大公的。
- start: 1189.983
  end: 1195.647
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We hear from the lovely Greek phrase kata holos.
  zh: 这来自优美的希腊语短语kata holos。
- start: 1196.428
  end: 1202.663
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Holos means the whole; kataholos means according to the whole.
  zh: Holos的意思是整体；kataholos的意思是按照整体。
- start: 1203.264
  end: 1208.509
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So it means universal—Catholic.
  zh: 所以它的意思是普世的——大公的。
- start: 1208.509
  end: 1214.213
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: God wants to draw not some people to Himself; He wants to draw everybody to Himself.
  zh: 神不是要吸引一些人归向祂；祂要吸引所有人归向祂。
- start: 1214.614
  end: 1219.958
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: God’s not interested in getting just some nations, a few chosen nations; He wants all nations.
  zh: 神不是只对得到一些国家，几个选民之邦感兴趣；祂要得到万国。
- start: 1221.619
  end: 1227.604
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Church is meant, therefore, to be a reality everywhere, all over the world.
  zh: 因此，教会注定要成为普世的实在，遍及全球。
- start: 1228.775
  end: 1242.644
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Again, St. Paul says in Galatians, There’s no longer Jew or Greek, no longer slave or free, no longer male or female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.
  zh: 保罗在加拉太书中再次说：「并不分犹太人、希腊人，自主的、为奴的，或男或女，因为你们在基督耶稣里都成为一了。」
- start: 1242.644
  end: 1244.445
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Look at those three great divisions.
  zh: 看看这三个重大的区分。
- start: 1245.066
  end: 1254.072
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Those are three of the most fundamental ways that people in Paul's time divided themselves; they stratified society along those lines.
  zh: 这是保罗时代人们划分自己的三种最基本方式；他们沿着这些界线将社会分层。
- start: 1254.913
  end: 1257.194
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, no, that's been overcome in Christ.
  zh: 不，不，这在基督里已经被克服了。
- start: 1258.22
  end: 1263.123
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Don't tell me one group is in and one group is out, one group is up and one group is down, and all those that apply.
  zh: 别告诉我这个群体在里面那个群体在外面，这个群体在上面那个群体在下面，诸如此类。
- start: 1263.123
  end: 1268.007
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you're a Greek, well, the Jews are no good; if you're a Jew, the Greeks are no good.
  zh: 如果你是希腊人，那么犹太人不好；如果你是犹太人，希腊人不好。
- start: 1268.007
  end: 1272.45
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Male and female—they were sharply divided in a hierarchical way in that time.
  zh: 男性和女性——在当时他们被等级制度严格分开。
- start: 1272.97
  end: 1278.294
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Paul’s saying, No, those divisions and stratifications are overcome in Christ.
  zh: 保罗说，不，这些分裂和分层在基督里已经被克服了。
- start: 1278.454
  end: 1290.479
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Kataholos, according to the whole—that's why the Church of Christ can never be limited to one place, or one people, or one language, or one nation.
  zh: Kataholos，按照整体——这就是为什么基督的教会永远不能局限于一个地方，或一个民族，或一种语言，或一个国家。
- start: 1290.479
  end: 1292.823
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's inimical to its catholicity.
  zh: 这与其大公性相违背。
- start: 1292.823
  end: 1298.471
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, John Paul II saw this so beautifully, and again this is the tension.
  zh: 你知道，若望保禄二世如此美妙地看到了这一点，这再次体现了这种张力。
- start: 1298.57
  end: 1301.393
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Does that mean that everything becomes monolithically one?
  zh: 这是否意味着一切都变成单一的一体？
- start: 1301.393
  end: 1302.173
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, no.
  zh: 不，不。
- start: 1302.173
  end: 1313.103
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of the World Youth Days of John Paul, where he drew people from all over the world, encouraged these young kids to bring the flags of their nations and bring their songs and particular customs.
  zh: 想想若望保禄二世的世界青年节，他把来自世界各地的人聚集在一起，鼓励这些年轻人带着他们国家的旗帜，带着他们的歌曲和特有的习俗。
- start: 1313.103
  end: 1313.904
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Terrific!
  zh: 太棒了！
- start: 1313.904
  end: 1323.312
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But then to realize beyond all those divisions, there’s this great unity and catholicity of the Church.
  zh: 但要认识到在所有这些差异之外，存在着教会这种伟大的合一和大公性。
- start: 1323.829
  end: 1334.417
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Whether they’re from Poland or from Brazil or from the Philippines or from Canada, wherever they’re from, they were all Catholics—katholikos, the universality of the Church.
  zh: 无论他们来自波兰、巴西、菲律宾还是加拿大，不管他们来自哪里，他们都是公教徒——katholikos，教会的普世性。
- start: 1334.417
  end: 1335.458
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Beautiful!
  zh: 美妙！
- start: 1335.959
  end: 1336.479
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Beautiful!
  zh: 美妙！
- start: 1336.479
  end: 1343.704
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Another dimension, if I can quote here one of my spiritual mentors, Cardinal Francis George of Chicago.
  zh: 让我引用我的一位属灵导师，芝加哥的弗朗西斯·乔治枢机主教的话来谈另一个层面。
- start: 1344.185
  end: 1353.272
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: He said, The Catholic Church has all the gifts that Christ wants His people to have.
  zh: 他说，公教会拥有基督要赐给祂子民的所有恩赐。
- start: 1353.959
  end: 1378.747
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'His point was, you know, other Christian denominations have gifts that Christ wanted His people to have, but the Catholic Church, the universal Church, has all the gifts: Scripture and sacraments, and the Eucharist, and the Blessed Mother, and apostolic authority, and the Pope, etc. Well, there''s another aspect of its universality.'
  zh: 他的意思是，你知道，其他基督教宗派也有基督要赐给祂子民的恩赐，但公教会，这普世的教会，拥有所有的恩赐：圣经和圣事，圣餐，圣母，使徒权柄，教宗等等。这是其普世性的另一个方面。
- start: 1379.204
  end: 1387.548
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, Cardinal George, mind you, always said it doesn't mean that other Christian denominations might not exercise some of those gifts better than we tend to do.
  zh: 请注意，乔治枢机主教总是说，这并不意味着其他基督教宗派在运用某些恩赐时不会比我们做得更好。
- start: 1387.548
  end: 1389.289
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay, I'll fully admit that.
  zh: 好的，我完全承认这一点。
- start: 1389.289
  end: 1397.532
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I've learned so much Scripture from Protestant scholars, learned so much about preaching, have seen charismatic gifts in other denominations.
  zh: 我从新教学者那里学到了很多圣经知识，学到了很多关于讲道的知识，在其他宗派中看到了灵恩恩赐。
- start: 1397.952
  end: 1406.236
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the Catholic Church, I think Cardinal George is right, has all the gifts that Christ wants His people to have.
  zh: 但我认为乔治枢机主教说得对，公教会拥有基督要赐给祂子民的所有恩赐。
- start: 1407.409
  end: 1412.59
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The final mark the Creed points out is apostolicity.
  zh: 信经指出的最后一个标记是使徒性。
- start: 1413.09
  end: 1415.891
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Church is apostolic.
  zh: 教会是使徒的。
- start: 1416.671
  end: 1419.492
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know what it means, everybody?
  zh: 大家知道这是什么意思吗？
- start: 1419.492
  end: 1429.634
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of the grandeur of the Catholic Church stretching over the whole world and all of its institutions and all of its people and the buildings associated with it.
  zh: 想想公教会的宏伟，它遍布全世界，有它所有的机构、所有的信徒和与之相关的建筑。
- start: 1429.634
  end: 1433.514
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: This grandeur of the Church—how did it all start?
  zh: 教会的这种宏伟——是如何开始的？
- start: 1434.575
  end: 1454.81
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: With this little band of 12 around Jesus, who walked the roads of Galilee with Him, who went fishing with Him, who sat and listened to Him, stayed with Him, knew Him personally, intimately.
  zh: 是从耶稣周围的这十二个人开始的，他们与祂一同走在加利利的路上，与祂一同打鱼，坐着听祂讲道，与祂同住，亲密地认识祂。
- start: 1455.451
  end: 1457.172
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's where the Church started.
  zh: 这就是教会的起点。
- start: 1457.453
  end: 1464.237
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's not a philosophy, not a social movement, not a political organization.
  zh: 它不是一种哲学，不是一场社会运动，不是一个政治组织。
- start: 1464.457
  end: 1475.052
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Church is a band of brothers around Jesus, and from that original band came and comes the Church.
  zh: 教会是耶稣周围的一群弟兄，教会来自并继续来自这最初的团体。
- start: 1475.072
  end: 1480.514
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We trace it back to those 12 who knew Him.
  zh: 我们可以追溯到那认识祂的十二个人。
- start: 1481.974
  end: 1483.655
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why is it called apostolic?
  zh: 为什么称它为使徒的？
- start: 1483.655
  end: 1487.557
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, apostellane in Greek means to send, right?
  zh: 嗯，希腊文apostellane的意思是差遣，对吧？
- start: 1487.557
  end: 1492.958
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What did Jesus do with these 12? He didn't just say, Well, come and listen to me; now let's just stay there.
  zh: 耶稣对这十二个人做了什么？祂不是只说：「来听我讲道吧，让我们就待在这里。」
- start: 1493.099
  end: 1498.46
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, they listened to Him, they were formed by Him, and then, boom, He sent them out.
  zh: 不，他们听祂讲道，被祂塑造，然后，轰，祂差遣他们出去。
- start: 1498.54
  end: 1507.223
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And how wonderful that this little group, you know, varying degrees of education, but none of them was, in a worldly sense, a particularly impressive figure.
  zh: 多么奇妙啊，你知道，这小群人有着不同程度的教育，但从世俗的角度来看，他们中没有一个特别令人印象深刻的人物。
- start: 1507.223
  end: 1513.425
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And yet they went out like rockets; they went out to the ends of the world and to their deaths.
  zh: 然而他们像火箭一样冲出去；他们走向世界的尽头，直到死亡。
- start: 1513.545
  end: 1514.865
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They were all sent.
  zh: 他们都被差遣了。
- start: 1515.069
  end: 1525.916
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, from that original energy comes the Church to this day—apostolic, grounded in them, and like them, sent out still.
  zh: 从那最初的能量而来的教会延续至今——使徒的，植根于他们，并像他们一样，仍在被差遣。
- start: 1525.916
  end: 1533.2
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'True, that''s the whole stress today on the new evangelization: the Church that goes out from itself.'
  zh: 确实，这就是今天对新福传的全部强调：教会走出自己。
- start: 1533.561
  end: 1536.182
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's its apostolic quality.
  zh: 这就是它的使徒性。
- start: 1537.458
  end: 1555.854
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Bishop, with all the corruption that has beset the Church up and down the ages, from bad popes to the scandals of the present day, how can we still claim that the Roman Catholic Church is guided by and filled with the Holy Spirit?
  zh: 主教，考虑到历代困扰教会的所有腐败，从不良教宗到今天的丑闻，我们怎么还能宣称罗马公教会是被圣灵引导和充满的？
- start: 1556.055
  end: 1562.24
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because in its essential structures, nature, and teaching, it remains holy.
  zh: 因为在其本质的结构、性质和教导上，它仍然是圣洁的。
- start: 1562.822
  end: 1570.927
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If every single pope from Peter until today had been hopelessly corrupt morally, would that undermine the sanctity of the Church?
  zh: 如果从彼得到今天的每一位教宗在道德上都无可救药地腐败，这会损害教会的圣洁性吗？
- start: 1570.927
  end: 1572.988
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, not essentially.
  zh: 不，本质上不会。
- start: 1573.068
  end: 1583.134
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The sanctity of the Church is connected to the sacraments, the liturgy, especially the Eucharist, to the great saints, to the apostolic teaching tradition.
  zh: 教会的圣洁性与圣事、礼仪，特别是圣餐，与伟大的圣徒，与使徒的教导传统相连。
- start: 1583.134
  end: 1597.543
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, if any of the popes had taught some wild heresy, if any of the popes had said, You know, there are four persons in the Godhead, or said, Jesus really isn't God, well then, the Church's holiness would be compromised.
  zh: 现在，如果任何教宗教导了某种狂野的异端，如果任何教宗说：「你知道，神性中有四个位格」，或说「耶稣其实不是神」，那么，教会的圣洁性就会受损。
- start: 1597.543
  end: 1602.805
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the moral failings of our leaders—I mean, it's regrettable, obviously; no one wants it.
  zh: 但我们领袖的道德失败——我是说，这显然令人遗憾；没人愿意看到这种事。
- start: 1602.805
  end: 1610.188
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's certainly a counter-witness evangelically, but it wouldn't in itself undermine the holiness of the Church.
  zh: 这当然在福音见证上是一个反面例子，但它本身并不会损害教会的圣洁性。
- start: 1610.189
  end: 1616.91
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In point of fact, the doctrine of original sin leads me to expect that people will go bad.
  zh: 事实上，原罪的教义使我预料到人会变坏。
- start: 1616.91
  end: 1619.231
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm not really surprised by that; I expect it.
  zh: 我对此并不感到惊讶；我预料到这一点。
- start: 1619.831
  end: 1623.432
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the Church—why wouldn't the Church be set apart as holy?
  zh: 但教会——为什么教会不会被分别为圣呢？
- start: 1623.692
  end: 1628.153
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Can you think that the Church would be the one place where the devil wouldn't feel so present?
  zh: 你能想象教会会是魔鬼不那么活跃的地方吗？
- start: 1628.353
  end: 1628.993
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, of course!
  zh: 当然不是！
- start: 1628.993
  end: 1638.275
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'I''ll pick up on that: the devil would be especially interested in trying to undermine the Church if the Church is the privileged means by which God wants to bring everyone to Himself.'
  zh: 我要说的是：如果教会是神要带领所有人归向祂的特选途径，魔鬼就会特别想要破坏教会。
- start: 1638.595
  end: 1642.918
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, if I were the devil, I'd go after that; I would try to undermine that.
  zh: 是的，如果我是魔鬼，我就会攻击这个；我会试图破坏这个。
- start: 1642.918
  end: 1645.739
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church.
  zh: 现在，阴间的门不能胜过教会。
- start: 1645.739
  end: 1650.922
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That means, in one way, the Holy Spirit will always preserve the Church in its integrity.
  zh: 这意味着，从某种意义上说，圣灵将永远保守教会的完整性。
- start: 1650.922
  end: 1657.865
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But stay with that image about the gates of hell, because we think of it somehow as, well, the devil won't be able to conquer us.
  zh: 但让我们停留在阴间的门这个意象上，因为我们总是认为这意味着魔鬼不能征服我们。
- start: 1657.865
  end: 1662.728
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But the gates of hell—that means we're coming after hell.
  zh: 但阴间的门——这意味着我们在进攻阴间。
- start: 1663.228
  end: 1670.912
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Church is on the offensive, and the gates that protect the walls of hell, they're not going to prevail against us.
  zh: 教会是在进攻，那些保护地狱之墙的门，它们不能胜过我们。
- start: 1671.152
  end: 1677.597
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And so ultimately, the Church will be triumphant under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 因此最终，在圣灵的引导下，教会将得胜。
- start: 1680.159
  end: 1687.505
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Then the Creed says to us, I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
  zh: 然后信经对我们说，我承认为赦罪而设立的独一洗礼。
- start: 1687.686
  end: 1692.129
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, we could do a whole sacramental theology; I'm not going to do that.
  zh: 现在，我们可以讲整个圣事神学，但我不打算这样做。
- start: 1692.47
  end: 1700.416
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's a kind of coda to the Creed in a way, because after saying I believe, I believe, I believe, it says here, I confess.
  zh: 这在某种程度上是信经的结语，因为在说了我信，我信，我信之后，这里说，我承认。
- start: 1700.976
  end: 1709.3
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I think it's not talking about, in itself, one of the high doctrines, but rather about a key practice in the life of the Church.
  zh: 我认为它本身不是在谈论某个高深的教义，而是在谈论教会生活中的一个关键实践。
- start: 1709.861
  end: 1713.202
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But see how important baptism is.
  zh: 但看看洗礼有多重要。
- start: 1713.203
  end: 1721.187
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'And mind you, I''ve said this before: these creeds, like the Nicene Creed, ultimately came from the baptismal process.'
  zh: 请注意，我之前说过：这些信经，比如尼西亚信经，最终源自洗礼过程。
- start: 1721.307
  end: 1726.17
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When someone was about to be baptized, they were asked, Do you believe in the Father?
  zh: 当某人要受洗时，他们会被问到：「你信圣父吗？」
- start: 1726.17
  end: 1727.691
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
  zh: 「你信耶稣基督吗？」
- start: 1727.691
  end: 1729.371
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Do you believe in the Spirit?
  zh: 「你信圣灵吗？」
- start: 1729.371
  end: 1733.901
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: etc. So they're interested in baptism in these creeds.
  zh: 等等。所以这些信经对洗礼很关注。
- start: 1734.702
  end: 1741.168
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'But here''s the one thing I want you to see: baptism—oh, that''s a nice little ritual, I suppose, a nice symbol?'
  zh: 但这是我想让你们看到的一点：洗礼——哦，我想这是个不错的小仪式，一个好的象征？
- start: 1741.168
  end: 1742.108
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, no, no!
  zh: 不，不，不！
- start: 1742.549
  end: 1747.513
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Something much more visceral and existential is going on in baptism.
  zh: 在洗礼中发生的是更深层次和存在性的事情。
- start: 1748.434
  end: 1771.78
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'When a child or an adult is baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, what''s happening is this: that person is now being grafted onto Christ in such a way that he or she now begins to share in Christ''s relationship to His Father.'
  zh: 当一个孩子或成人奉圣父、圣子、圣灵的名受洗时，发生的是这样的事：这个人现在被接枝到基督上，使他或她开始分享基督与天父的关系。
- start: 1773.961
  end: 1783.203
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So grafted onto Him—not just becoming His follower, His adept, someone who thinks His philosophy is really cool—no, no, much more existential than that.
  zh: 所以接枝到祂身上——不仅仅是成为祂的跟随者，祂的信徒，或是觉得祂的哲学很酷的人——不，不，这比那更具存在性。
- start: 1783.203
  end: 1791.27
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You are grafted onto Christ so that now you participate in His relationship to the Father.
  zh: 你被接枝到基督身上，使你现在参与祂与天父的关系。
- start: 1791.27
  end: 1792.831
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, what did I just say in the last lecture?
  zh: 现在，我在上一讲中说了什么？
- start: 1792.831
  end: 1795.013
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I sound like I'm in the luxury.
  zh: 我听起来好像在说奢侈的事。
- start: 1795.013
  end: 1796.174
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What did I just say?
  zh: 我刚才说了什么？
- start: 1796.174
  end: 1800.838
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, the Father and the Son are related in the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 圣父和圣子在圣灵里相关联。
- start: 1801.839
  end: 1812.488
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So when you're baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, you are now introduced into the Trinitarian life.
  zh: 所以当你奉圣父、圣子、圣灵的名受洗时，你就被带入三位一体的生命中。
- start: 1813.038
  end: 1816.919
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's what it means; that's what baptism means.
  zh: 这就是它的意思；这就是洗礼的意义。
- start: 1817.519
  end: 1818.779
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You're not joining a club.
  zh: 你不是在加入一个俱乐部。
- start: 1818.779
  end: 1825.081
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When people say, I'm going to return my baptismal certificate; I want out of this club, well, it's not a club.
  zh: 当人们说，我要退回我的洗礼证书；我要退出这个俱乐部，但这不是一个俱乐部。
- start: 1825.201
  end: 1829.042
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's an ontological change that happens.
  zh: 这是一个本体性的改变。
- start: 1829.362
  end: 1838.304
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's why in the Catholic Church we speak of baptism, along with confirmation and holy orders, as character sacraments.
  zh: 这就是为什么在公教会中，我们把洗礼，连同坚振和圣秩，称为印记圣事。
- start: 1839.185
  end: 1845.853
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The word character comes from a term in both Greek and Latin, charakter, that means brand.
  zh: 「印记」这个词来自希腊文和拉丁文中的charakter，意思是烙印。
- start: 1845.853
  end: 1848.274
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Isn't that lovely?
  zh: 这不是很美妙吗？
- start: 1849.075
  end: 1854.879
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: A brand brands you on your skin, marks you permanently.
  zh: 烙印在你的皮肤上留下印记，永久地标记你。
- start: 1855.239
  end: 1859.542
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But see, this mark is happening not just on the level of your skin.
  zh: 但要知道，这个印记不仅仅发生在你皮肤的层面。
- start: 1859.642
  end: 1863.105
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, no, this brand is going all the way down to your soul.
  zh: 不，不，这个烙印一直深入到你的灵魂。
- start: 1864.026
  end: 1875.289
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Baptism now brands you with Jesus Christ, marks you forever as being in relation to the Father, grafted onto Him.
  zh: 洗礼现在用耶稣基督给你烙印，永远标记你与天父的关系，使你接枝到祂身上。
- start: 1875.549
  end: 1881.971
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: See, and that's why Thomas Aquinas calls baptism vitae spiritualis ianua.
  zh: 看，这就是为什么托马斯·阿奎那称洗礼为vitae spiritualis ianua。
- start: 1882.431
  end: 1885.792
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That means it's the door of the spiritual life.
  zh: 这意味着它是属灵生命的门。
- start: 1887.252
  end: 1888.573
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You want the spiritual life?
  zh: 你想要属灵的生命吗？
- start: 1888.573
  end: 1893.634
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And that means all the other sacraments; that means the Mass; that means holiness—everything else.
  zh: 这意味着所有其他圣事；这意味着弥撒；这意味着圣洁——一切其他的事。
- start: 1893.634
  end: 1896.435
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, the door, the way in, is baptism.
  zh: 那么，这扇门，这个入口，就是洗礼。
- start: 1896.715
  end: 1902.91
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Baptism, and that's why I think we affirm it so powerfully in the Creed.
  zh: 洗礼，这就是为什么我认为我们在信经中如此有力地肯定它。
- start: 1905.432
  end: 1913.297
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Bishop, can you say a little bit more about original sin and its consequences, and then what baptism affects in regards to both?
  zh: 主教，你能多说一点关于原罪及其后果，以及洗礼对两者的影响吗？
- start: 1913.998
  end: 1919.021
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, remember I said that the Church, ecclesia, has been called out of something, right?
  zh: 好的，记得我说过教会，ecclesia，是被从某处呼召出来的，对吧？
- start: 1919.021
  end: 1920.622
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Into a new mode of being.
  zh: 进入一种新的存在方式。
- start: 1920.686
  end: 1923.607
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What we're called out of is the sinful world.
  zh: 我们被呼召出来的是罪恶的世界。
- start: 1923.728
  end: 1932.933
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Original sin is talking not so much about a particular sin of an individual, but rather about this dysfunctional quality of the human family.
  zh: 原罪说的不是个人的某个特定罪，而是人类家庭的这种功能失调的特质。
- start: 1933.033
  end: 1942.318
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That over all these eons and centuries of dysfunction, there's a kind of poisonous atmosphere in which we all come of age.
  zh: 在这些亿万年和世纪的功能失调中，我们都在一种有毒的氛围中成长。
- start: 1942.318
  end: 1950.843
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of someone coming of age within the context of a dysfunctional family marked by alcohol abuse or by physical abuse.
  zh: 想想在一个被酗酒或身体虐待所标记的功能失调家庭中成长的人。
- start: 1950.959
  end: 1957.223
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, that's all the child knows; he's affected willy-nilly by the environment he came of age in.
  zh: 这就是孩子所知道的一切；他不由自主地被他成长的环境所影响。
- start: 1957.323
  end: 1961.506
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, that's all of us in the dysfunctional family of the human race.
  zh: 这就是我们所有人在人类这个功能失调的家庭中的处境。
- start: 1961.506
  end: 1972.933
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, baptism, which is the way into the spiritual life, the way into the Church, ecclesia, we've been called out of the dysfunction into a new mode of being.
  zh: 现在，洗礼是进入属灵生命的途径，进入教会的途径，我们被从这功能失调中呼召出来，进入一种新的存在方式。
- start: 1972.933
  end: 1977.375
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Which is why baptism involves the forgiveness of original sin.
  zh: 这就是为什么洗礼包含原罪的赦免。
- start: 1977.375
  end: 1979.617
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It doesn't mean now, Oh, this kid's never going to sin again.
  zh: 这并不意味着，哦，这个孩子永远不会再犯罪了。
- start: 1979.617
  end: 1991.179
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It means in the measure that he or she has been brought into the Church, he or she has been brought into a new world and taken out of the poisonous atmosphere of sin.
  zh: 这意味着在他或她被带入教会的程度上，他或她被带入一个新的世界，脱离了罪的有毒氛围。
- start: 1992.58
  end: 1993.38
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Okay?
  zh: 明白吗？
- start: 1993.98
  end: 2006.265
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'The very last article of the Nicene Creed: And I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.'
  zh: 尼西亚信经的最后一条：我期待死人复活和来世的生命。
- start: 2008.406
  end: 2009.606
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I look forward.
  zh: 我期待。
- start: 2009.824
  end: 2021.053
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'You know, we all know this: death haunts the whole of life here below.'
  zh: 你知道，我们都知道这一点：死亡笼罩着这世上的整个生命。
- start: 2021.234
  end: 2028.419
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Its inevitability, its seeming finality, casts a shadow over the whole of life.
  zh: 它的必然性，它表面的终结性，给整个生命蒙上阴影。
- start: 2029.781
  end: 2035.345
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because we die, it's very easy to see life as finally pointless.
  zh: 因为我们会死，很容易就会把生命看作最终毫无意义。
- start: 2035.706
  end: 2038.528
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I mean, listen to the atheists today; they'll just say that.
  zh: 我是说，听听今天的无神论者；他们就是这么说的。
- start: 2038.835
  end: 2042.457
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Yeah, ultimately we all die, and that's the end.
  zh: 是的，最终我们都会死，那就是终点。
- start: 2042.677
  end: 2049.2
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And if you want to press it, the Earth is going to fade away one day, be absorbed, I guess, by the heat of the sun.
  zh: 如果你要追问下去，地球有一天会消失，我想，会被太阳的热量吸收。
- start: 2049.621
  end: 2053.262
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The whole universe will eventually, you know, give out.
  zh: 整个宇宙最终，你知道，会消亡。
- start: 2054.203
  end: 2061.186
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Ultimately, this world that we're in is just passing, evanescent, and destined to fall into non-existence.
  zh: 最终，我们所处的这个世界只是短暂的，转瞬即逝的，注定要归于虚无。
- start: 2061.827
  end: 2064.028
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, we're haunted by that.
  zh: 我们都被这个困扰着。
- start: 2064.508
  end: 2068.85
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, atheists and believers alike, I think it's fair to say, are haunted by this.
  zh: 我认为可以公平地说，无神论者和信徒都被这个困扰着。
- start: 2070.171
  end: 2095.582
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The Creed, now in light of everything that we've already professed—in light of our belief in God, the Creator of all things; in light of our belief in Jesus Christ risen from the dead; in light of our belief in the Holy Spirit who stands with us, guiding us—we resist this sort of morbid preoccupation.
  zh: 信经，现在根据我们已经宣认的一切——根据我们对万物的创造者神的信仰；根据我们对从死里复活的耶稣基督的信仰；根据我们对与我们同在、引导我们的圣灵的信仰——我们抵制这种病态的执着。
- start: 2096.043
  end: 2102.964
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We resist it and declare our faith in the resurrection of the dead.
  zh: 我们抵制它，并宣告我们对死人复活的信仰。
- start: 2104.925
  end: 2106.146
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What does this mean?
  zh: 这是什么意思？
- start: 2106.667
  end: 2119.215
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, I want to clear this up first, because I think a lot of even Christians, even people formed by the Bible, fall into this trap of imagining that this is something like what Plato dreamed of.
  zh: 好，我想先澄清这一点，因为我认为很多基督徒，甚至是受圣经塑造的人，都陷入这个陷阱，以为这就像柏拉图所梦想的那样。
- start: 2119.796
  end: 2135.434
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Plato dreamed that one day the soul would escape from the body—this body which is destined for death and is, in essence, passing—but the immortal soul would rise up from that body and live now in a purely spiritual realm.
  zh: 柏拉图梦想有一天灵魂会从身体中逃脱——这个注定要死亡的，本质上是短暂的身体——但不朽的灵魂会从那身体中升起，现在生活在一个纯粹的灵性境界。
- start: 2136.174
  end: 2139.615
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, that might be Plato's dream; it's not the dream of the Bible.
  zh: 那可能是柏拉图的梦想；但那不是圣经的梦想。
- start: 2142.056
  end: 2142.396
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No, no!
  zh: 不，不！
- start: 2142.396
  end: 2148.097
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The God who made the world, the material world, the God that gave us these bodies, isn't going to give up on them.
  zh: 创造世界，创造物质世界的神，赐给我们这些身体的神，不会放弃它们。
- start: 2148.378
  end: 2160.611
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: In fact, in light of the resurrection—mind you, the bodily resurrection of Jesus from the dead—we look forward to our own bodily resurrection.
  zh: 事实上，根据复活——请注意，是耶稣从死里的身体复活——我们期待我们自己身体的复活。
- start: 2160.831
  end: 2175.501
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Not the escape of the soul from the body, not leaving the matter behind, but rather to a transfigured and elevated corporality.
  zh: 不是灵魂从身体中逃脱，不是抛弃物质，而是转变和提升的身体性。
- start: 2175.862
  end: 2179.464
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think now, perhaps, of the Transfiguration of Jesus.
  zh: 现在想想，也许，耶稣的变像。
- start: 2180.037
  end: 2185.759
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Jesus doesn't leave behind His body; rather, His body becomes luminous, glorious.
  zh: 耶稣没有抛弃祂的身体；相反，祂的身体变得发光，荣耀。
- start: 2185.759
  end: 2190.261
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We say He's been transformed, transfigured.
  zh: 我们说祂被改变了，被变像了。
- start: 2190.301
  end: 2199.805
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'That gives us a clue as to what we look forward to: a spiritualized body, as Paul called it—that''s the resurrection from the dead.'
  zh: 这给了我们一个线索，让我们知道我们期待什么：一个属灵的身体，如保罗所说的——这就是从死里复活。
- start: 2199.805
  end: 2210.336
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, what are some metaphors our tradition has proposed for this life on high that we look forward to, this resurrected life?
  zh: 现在，我们的传统为我们所期待的这种高处的生命，这种复活的生命提出了什么比喻？
- start: 2211.157
  end: 2217.642
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, one image you'll find in a lot of theologians is the image of the beatific vision.
  zh: 在许多神学家的著作中你会发现一个意象，就是真福直观的意象。
- start: 2218.703
  end: 2225.368
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The beatific vision means seeing God face to face.
  zh: 真福直观意味着面对面地见神。
- start: 2226.169
  end: 2227.77
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, that metaphor of vision, right?
  zh: 现在，这个视觉的比喻，对吧？
- start: 2227.77
  end: 2230.812
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's all about knowledge and connection.
  zh: 这都是关于知识和连接。
- start: 2230.812
  end: 2233.474
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If I can see you, I'm connected to you.
  zh: 如果我能看见你，我就与你连接。
- start: 2233.977
  end: 2237.178
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When I see an idea, oh, I see it now!
  zh: 当我看到一个想法时，哦，我现在明白了！
- start: 2237.618
  end: 2239.259
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: My mind is satisfied.
  zh: 我的心智得到满足。
- start: 2239.479
  end: 2243.36
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I'm questioning and wondering, and oh, now I get it; I see it.
  zh: 我在质疑和思索，然后哦，现在我明白了；我看到了。
- start: 2244.321
  end: 2255.984
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, don't we realize that for every person we come to know, that awakens in us a desire to know more and more—to know other people, to know them even more deeply?
  zh: 我们难道没有意识到，每认识一个人，都会唤醒我们想要认识更多的渴望——认识其他人，更深入地认识他们？
- start: 2257.145
  end: 2263.147
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: And that every idea we come to, it doesn't put our minds to rest; it awakens our minds, right?
  zh: 而且我们遇到的每个想法，都不会让我们的心智安息；它唤醒我们的心智，对吧？
- start: 2263.414
  end: 2267.637
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That the more questions I answer, the more questions I have that I want to answer.
  zh: 我回答的问题越多，我想要回答的问题就越多。
- start: 2267.858
  end: 2281.189
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: There's a restless quality to our seeing and our knowing, and no matter how much we see and know in this life, we're never satisfied, are we?
  zh: 我们的看见和认知有一种不安的特质，无论我们在今生看见和认识多少，我们都永远不会满足，不是吗？
- start: 2282.511
  end: 2289.817
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: We want more and more because finally, we're hungry to see everything.
  zh: 我们想要越来越多，因为最终，我们渴望看见一切。
- start: 2291.277
  end: 2298.64
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Bernard Lonergan put it that way, the great Jesuit philosopher—that the mind wants to know everything about everything.
  zh: 伟大的耶稣会哲学家伯纳德·朗尼根是这样说的——心智想要知道关于一切的一切。
- start: 2298.681
  end: 2301.902
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It wants union with all of reality.
  zh: 它想要与所有实在结合。
- start: 2303.463
  end: 2307.205
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The beatific vision—that means the vision that makes me happy.
  zh: 真福直观——这意味着使我快乐的视见。
- start: 2307.205
  end: 2308.645
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Beatis means happy.
  zh: Beatis的意思是快乐。
- start: 2308.826
  end: 2315.989
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The vision that makes me happy would be this vision of God and all things in God.
  zh: 使我快乐的视见就是看见神和在神里的万物。
- start: 2316.87
  end: 2322.114
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's the satisfaction we look forward to in the heavenly place.
  zh: 这是我们在天上所期待的满足。
- start: 2325.837
  end: 2346.639
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, one thing I think of here in this context—I know it can sound kind of solitary, like just me having a vision—but think of when you're with a group of friends, and together you're exploring ideas or concepts, or you're with your friends and you're meeting new people, and together you're gaining a deeper intimacy.
  zh: 你知道，在这个语境中我想到一件事——我知道这听起来有点孤单，好像只是我一个人在看见——但想想当你和一群朋友在一起，一起探索想法或概念，或者你和朋友一起认识新的人，一起获得更深的亲密。
- start: 2346.739
  end: 2357.145
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Maybe that''s a better image for heaven: all of us together coming to see and experience being and reality more and more intensely.'
  zh: 也许这是天堂更好的形象：我们所有人一起来看见和体验存在和实在，越来越深入。
- start: 2357.145
  end: 2358.966
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's the beatific vision.
  zh: 这就是真福直观。
- start: 2361.047
  end: 2367.935
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Here''s a second image for the life on high, and I love this: the image of the city.'
  zh: 这是高处生命的第二个形象，我很喜欢这个：城市的形象。
- start: 2369.356
  end: 2374.938
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, the Bible does have, in some parts, an antipathy towards cities.
  zh: 你知道，圣经在某些部分确实对城市有反感。
- start: 2375.579
  end: 2384.123
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of Cain, the original murderer, as the founder of cities, and the Bible has a certain, I don't know, dis-ease with cities.
  zh: 想想该隐，最初的凶手，作为城市的建立者，圣经对城市有某种，我不知道，不安。
- start: 2385.264
  end: 2399.798
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: On the other hand, the great culminating vision of the entire Bible is the coming down from heaven of the new creation, Jerusalem, of the new city.
  zh: 另一方面，整本圣经的最终伟大异象是新创造，新耶路撒冷，新城从天而降。
- start: 2399.798
  end: 2406.02
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Look for the description of it toward the end of the Book of Revelation—a city.
  zh: 在启示录结尾处寻找对它的描述——一座城。
- start: 2406.74
  end: 2408.2
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What's a city like?
  zh: 城市是什么样的？
- start: 2408.901
  end: 2410.481
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, it's exciting, isn't it?
  zh: 嗯，它很令人兴奋，不是吗？
- start: 2410.641
  end: 2417.843
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Where lots of people are gathered together, where all these different forms of human interaction are on display.
  zh: 许多人聚集在一起，各种不同形式的人际互动都在展现。
- start: 2417.844
  end: 2428.255
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: From sports to business and finance and entertainment, and all of it there in this great hustle and bustle.
  zh: 从体育到商业和金融和娱乐，所有这些都在这繁忙喧嚣中。
- start: 2428.796
  end: 2442.343
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, cities are flawed, and a lot of bad things go on in cities, but at their best, when you're in a city for the first time, you're kind of exploring it and seeing how beautiful and rich it can be.
  zh: 你知道，城市是有缺陷的，城市中发生很多坏事，但在最好的时候，当你第一次到一个城市时，你在探索它，看到它可以多么美丽和丰富。
- start: 2442.503
  end: 2459.808
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That gives you a hint of what life on high with our fellow human beings—who've come to this heavenly place and are now exploring life and all of its vitality, hustle, bustle, and variety—might be like.
  zh: 这让你略微感受到与我们的同胞在高处的生命可能是什么样子——他们来到这天堂之地，现在正在探索生命及其所有的活力、繁忙、喧嚣和多样性。
- start: 2459.808
  end: 2467.692
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I wonder, would things like sports and business and entertainment all be on offer in heaven?
  zh: 我想知道，像体育、商业和娱乐这样的事物在天堂里都会有吗？
- start: 2468.152
  end: 2469.693
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, I mean, why not?
  zh: 嗯，我是说，为什么不呢？
- start: 2470.274
  end: 2476.577
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Not in their fallen, compromised, imperfect form here below, but in an elevated form.
  zh: 不是以现今堕落的、妥协的、不完美的形式，而是以提升的形式。
- start: 2477.526
  end: 2485.891
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: You know, a human being fully alive—those moments in human life when you're just thrilled with whatever you're experiencing.
  zh: 你知道，一个完全活着的人——生命中那些你对所经历的一切感到兴奋的时刻。
- start: 2485.891
  end: 2491.654
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's something you're doing, or you're seeing, or someone you're meeting, and you just feel lifted up.
  zh: 可能是你在做的事，或你在看的东西，或你遇见的人，你就感到被提升。
- start: 2492.755
  end: 2497.038
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of that now in the context of others having that same kind of experience.
  zh: 现在想想这一点，在其他人也有同样经历的背景下。
- start: 2497.038
  end: 2498.819
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: But now what's lifting you up?
  zh: 但现在是什么在提升你？
- start: 2498.819
  end: 2504.662
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's not just an ordinary activity in this world, but it's now union with God.
  zh: 不仅仅是这世界上的普通活动，而是现在与神的联合。
- start: 2505.834
  end: 2510.177
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That gives you a sense of what life in the heavenly city is like.
  zh: 这让你感受到天上城市的生命是什么样的。
- start: 2510.538
  end: 2513.88
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, just one more image I'll share with you, and I'll bring it to a close.
  zh: 现在，我再分享一个形象，然后就结束。
- start: 2514.701
  end: 2524.788
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: If you look at the Book of Revelation and you see this great description of the heavenly Jerusalem, you find there's no temple in the heavenly city.
  zh: 如果你看启示录，看到对天上耶路撒冷的伟大描述，你会发现在天城里没有圣殿。
- start: 2526.229
  end: 2527.01
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Weird, isn't it?
  zh: 很奇怪，不是吗？
- start: 2527.01
  end: 2531.453
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Because Jerusalem, the earthly Jerusalem, that was why you went there.
  zh: 因为耶路撒冷，地上的耶路撒冷，那是你去那里的原因。
- start: 2531.473
  end: 2533.094
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The temple was everything.
  zh: 圣殿就是一切。
- start: 2533.871
  end: 2538.493
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: The temple was the kind of economic, political, and obviously religious center of the whole city.
  zh: 圣殿是整个城市的经济、政治，显然还有宗教中心。
- start: 2538.493
  end: 2540.033
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's why people came.
  zh: 这就是人们来的原因。
- start: 2540.353
  end: 2546.155
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: So why, in the heavenly city of all places, is there no temple?
  zh: 那么为什么，在所有地方中的天城里，却没有圣殿？
- start: 2546.335
  end: 2553.858
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: 'Here''s the answer: because the whole city has become a temple.'
  zh: 这就是答案：因为整个城市已经成为圣殿。
- start: 2554.578
  end: 2555.678
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What's a temple?
  zh: 什么是圣殿？
- start: 2556.119
  end: 2559.96
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's the place of right praise, right?
  zh: 这是正确赞美的地方，对吧？
- start: 2559.96
  end: 2567.901
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: When we have ordered ourselves to God, we give God praise with our whole being.
  zh: 当我们使自己归向神时，我们以全人赞美神。
- start: 2568.341
  end: 2575.124
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Well, now think of business, finance, sports, entertainment—all of it.
  zh: 好，现在想想商业、金融、体育、娱乐——所有这一切。
- start: 2575.685
  end: 2581.467
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Ordered to God—all of it now a form of right praise.
  zh: 归向神——这一切现在都成为正确赞美的形式。
- start: 2582.988
  end: 2587.57
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's the liturgy of heaven, and that's my last image.
  zh: 这就是天上的礼仪，这是我的最后一个形象。
- start: 2587.873
  end: 2589.394
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: It's like an eternal liturgy.
  zh: 这就像一个永恒的礼仪。
- start: 2589.394
  end: 2592.697
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now, I'm a priest; I'm a bishop.
  zh: 现在，我是一个神父；我是一个主教。
- start: 2592.697
  end: 2600.323
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: I love the liturgy, but I get how, in the liturgy here below, you might think, Do I want to just be at Mass for all eternity?
  zh: 我爱礼仪，但我理解，在现今的礼仪中，你可能会想，我真的想永远参加弥撒吗？
- start: 2600.384
  end: 2608.55
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: No. But it's what the Mass here below, with all of its limitations, is meant to evoke, which is all of us together.
  zh: 不。但这是现今的弥撒，尽管有其局限性，要唤起的东西，就是我们所有人在一起。
- start: 2608.811
  end: 2618.594
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Think of us at Mass, singing together in harmony, together focused on God, all of our energies engaged and lifted up.
  zh: 想想我们在弥撒中，和谐地一起歌唱，一起专注于神，我们所有的能量都投入其中并被提升。
- start: 2618.594
  end: 2622.936
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's what it means; that's what the heavenly liturgy means.
  zh: 这就是它的意思；这就是天上礼仪的意思。
- start: 2622.936
  end: 2638.401
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's the heavenly Jerusalem become a temple—a place of communal right praise and vision of that which is most satisfying to our minds and hearts.
  zh: 这就是成为圣殿的天上耶路撒冷——一个共同正确赞美的地方，一个最能满足我们心智和心灵的异象之地。
- start: 2640.682
  end: 2648.039
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: That's what we hope for when we say we look forward to the resurrection of the dead and life everlasting.
  zh: 这就是我们说我们期待死人复活和永生时所盼望的。
