公教徒有圣灵吗？ Do Catholics have the Holy Spirit?
这个问题我时不时会被问到。 This is a question that I get every once in a while.
有人会对我说，比如，为什么公教徒没有圣灵呢？ Someone will throw out to me something like, Well, why don't the Catholics have the Holy Spirit?
通常，这种反对意见是这样的：嗯，我喜欢公教会的一些东西，但你们就是没有圣灵。 Oftentimes, it's an objection like, Well, you know, I like the Catholic Church and certain things, but you just don't have the Holy Spirit.
说真的，有时候人们就是这么说的。 Seriously, this is what people say sometimes.
我只是想对那些认为公教徒没有圣灵的人说几句。 I just want to throw this out there for those of you that are like, The Catholics don't have the Holy Spirit.
当我们开始所有的祷告时，让我给你们看看是怎么开始的：奉父、子、圣灵的名。 When we begin all of our prayers, let me just show you how they begin: In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
阿们。 Amen.
你看，圣灵是公教会中非常重要的一部分，也是作为公教徒生活中非常重要的一部分。 You see, the Holy Spirit is such an important part of the Catholic Church and such an important part of life as a Catholic.
当我听到人们说类似“你们没有圣灵”之类的话时，我真的感到难以置信。 It just blows my mind when I hear people say things like, Well, you don't have the Holy Spirit, and whatnot.
所以今天，我想做一个视频，讲讲为什么我相信公 教会是最充满圣灵的教会，我们现在就开始吧。 So today, I want to make a video about why I believe that the Catholic Church is the most Holy Spirit-filled Church there is, and we're going to start right now.
我们首先要做的是理解人们说“我们有圣灵吗”这类话时的意思。 The first thing we have to do is understand what people mean when they say things like, Do we have the Holy Spirit?
这到底是什么意思呢？ What does that look like?
你知道的，我们有圣灵，而公教徒没有。我认为人们 首先想到的，是公教信仰和圣灵不相容的几个方面。 You know, We have it, and the Catholics don't. I think there are a couple of things that people first of all think about with Catholicism and the Holy Spirit being incompatible.
第一个是这样的：有些人生活在一个他们的敬拜非常自 由流动的世界里，几乎没有什么固定的形式或结构。 The first one is this: some people live in a world where their worship is very free-flowing, and it just kind of happens with no real form to it or whatever.
他们看到公教徒的礼仪和有结构、有秩序的敬拜，就会说，哦， 这种结构化和有秩序的敬拜本质上是与圣灵的运行相违背的。 They see the Catholics with our liturgy and our structured, ordered worship, and they go, Oh, well, that structure and ordered worship inherently works against the movement of the Holy Spirit.
因为在他们的世界里，圣灵会这样做，圣灵可能会那样做，今天的敬 拜中可能会发生这样的事情，然后圣灵会引导我们到这里或那里。 Because in the world that they live in, it's like the Holy Spirit does this, and the Holy Spirit might do that, and we might have this happen today in worship, and then the Holy Spirit's going to guide us over here and there.
实际上，圣灵常常被用来为许多缺乏计划或随波逐流的态度背锅。 Really, what happens is the Holy Spirit gets blamed for a lot of lack of planning, perhaps, or just a go-with-the-flow attitude.
因此，有人认为圣灵在某种程度上是反对礼仪或反对秩序的。 So there's this idea that the Holy Spirit somehow is anti-liturgy or anti-order.
我想提醒大家，使徒保罗在哥林多前书14章40 节中写道：“凡事都要规规矩矩地按着次序行。” I just want to remind people that 1 Corinthians 14:40, the Apostle Paul writes this: Let all things be done decently and in order.
这是在他谈到圣灵的恩赐在教会中运行之后说的 ，但他说，看啊，按着次序行事是很重要的。 Now, that's after he speaks about the gifts of the Holy Spirit operating in the Church, but he says, Look, it's important that things be done decently in order.
我之所以这么说，是因为我们不能认为圣灵本质上等同于无序。 So the reason why I'm saying that is because it's important not to think that the Holy Spirit inherently equals disorder.
敬拜是有秩序、有结构的，当然，如果你看旧约，你会发现敬拜是有秩序的。 There's an order and there's a structure, and of course, if you look at the Old Testament, you see that worship was ordered.
因此，当涉及到圣灵时，礼仪化的敬拜环境本身并没有什么问题。 So there's nothing inherently wrong with a liturgical worship environment when it regards to the Holy Spirit.
我们必须摒弃这样的想法：拥有圣灵就意味着你的敬拜必 须是那种无拘无束、混乱的体验，任何事情都可能发生。 We have to take that out of our minds—that to have the Holy Spirit means that your worship has to be like this free-for-all chaotic experience where anything can happen.
当然，有些人会说，哦，但那很令人兴奋啊，基思！ Now, for some people, they go, Oh, but that's exciting, Keith!
我喜欢那样！ I love that!
那很好啊！ Well, great!
我很高兴你喜欢那样，但那并不是真的符合圣经，对吧？ I'm glad that you love that, but that's not really biblical, is it?
你看，根据圣经，敬拜应该规规矩矩地按着次序进行。 See, according to the Scriptures, worship is supposed to be done decently and in order.
在公教会和其他礼仪教会中，我们有各种形式和方式；这不仅仅是公教徒的做法。 We have various forms and things that we use in the Catholic Church and in other liturgical churches too; it's not just the Catholics.
这些帮助我们真正理解我们在那里要做什么，并确保 事情以一种虔敬、尊重的方式进行，同时达到目标。 These help us to really understand what we're there to do and to make sure that things are done in a way that's reverent, respectful, and that we're hitting the target.
第二件人们会说的事情是，嗯，我从没见过公教徒 说方言，或者做五旬节派与圣灵相关的那些事情。 The second thing people will say is that, Well, I never see Catholics speaking in tongues or doing anything that the Pentecostals do that is associated with the Holy Spirit.
我曾经在五旬节派教会待过一段时间，所以我当 然见过人们说方言、被圣灵击倒之类的事情。 Now, I used to be in the Pentecostal Church for a time, and so of course I've seen people speaking in tongues and being slain in the Spirit and all that kind of stuff.
我完全不反对这些，许多人可能会惊讶地发现，公教会也不反对这些。 I'm not against that by any stretch of the imagination, and many of you would be surprised to know that the Catholic Church isn't either.
公教信仰本身并没有什么反对的，也没有教会的教导说方言的恩赐 已经停止，或者公教信仰反对圣灵的恩赐在教会生活中的运行。 There's nothing inherent to Catholicism, or there's no Church teaching that says that the gift of tongues has ceased or that Catholicism is against the gifts of the Holy Spirit operating in the life of the Church.
你听说过灵恩复兴吗？ Have you ever heard of the Charismatic Renewal?
有许多公教徒活在那种灵恩的环境中，而且没有任何官方的教会教导声明那是不可以的。 There are Catholics that live in that place a lot, and there's no official Church teaching that declares that that can't be a thing.
只是教会为人们对此保留了很多思考的空间。 It's just that the Church leaves a lot of room for people to think about that.
例如，圣托马斯阿奎那在谈到方言的恩赐时，教导说方言 的恩赐或方言的语言是实际的、可以被理解的人类语言。 St. Thomas Aquinas, for example, in talking about the gift of tongues, taught that the gift of tongues, or the language of tongues, were actual physical human languages that could be understood.
就像《使徒行传》中所记载的，在五旬节，门徒们领受了方言的恩赐，他们说出了他们不 懂的其他语言，以便宣讲福音，这并不是我们今天有时看到的那种无意义的胡言乱语。 So, like in the Book of Acts, where we see at Pentecost the apostles received the gift of tongues and they spoke in other languages not known to them so that they could proclaim the Gospel, it wasn't just this gibberish that they were doing for whatever purpose that sometimes we see today.
他们是在说其他的语言。 They were speaking in other languages.
现在，我知道有人会说，哦，那你的祷告语言呢？ Now, I know people want to say, Oh, but what about your prayer language?
或者方言和天使的语言呢？ Or what about the language of tongues and angels?
如果那能帮助你在信仰上成长，我不会对此评判你。 If that's going to help you to grow in your faith, then I'm not going to judge you on that.
但我的意思是：在公教会中是有空间容纳这些的。 But my point is this: there's room in the Catholic Church for that.
所以，如果你说公教会没有圣灵，因为人们不说方言，那么你真的 应该去看看那些实际上声称这些恩赐已经停止的其他类型的教会。 So if you're going to say that the Catholic Church doesn't have the Holy Spirit because people don't speak in tongues, then you really ought to be looking at some of the other types of churches that actually will say that those gifts have ceased.
去和那些主张恩赐停止论的人谈谈吧。 Go talk to the cessationists who are going to say that.
所以，如果你要说公教徒没有圣灵的恩赐，或者他们以某种方式 教导反对这些，那就不要针对公教徒，因为那完全不是真的。 So don't come for the Catholics if you're going to say that they don't have the gifts of the Holy Spirit or that they teach against that in some way, because that's just flat-out not true.
我接下来会继续讲，但我想总结一下，在这一点上 ，有些人有，有些人没有，就像其他群体一样。 I'm going to move on a little bit, but I want to just close by saying that with that part of it, there are some that do and some that don't, just like in other groups.
现在，我认为，当谈到公教会没有圣灵的这种观点时，这里有一个真正的关键。 Now, here's the real key, I think, when it comes to the idea that the Catholic Church doesn't have the Holy Spirit.
通常会这样说，是因为教会的教导与他们对圣经的解释相矛盾。 It's usually spoken about like this because the Church teaches something that's contrary to their interpretation of the Scriptures.
让我解释一下我的意思。 Let me explain what I mean.
我和人们就这个话题谈过几次。 I've had this conversation a few times with people.
我们会谈到权威的问题，以及我们如何知道圣经 的意思、圣经的教导和基督信仰的真正含义。 We would talk about this idea of authority and how do we know what the Bible means and what the Bible teaches and what the Christian faith really is.
谁有权威来定义这些？ Who has the authority to define that?
有时候我会说，嗯，教会教导是这样的，但他们会问，你怎么知道呢？ Sometimes I'll say things like, Well, the Church teaches this, but then they ask, How do you know?
因为你不同意，对吧？ Because you disagree, right?
你怎么知道你是对的？ How do you know you're right?
我几次被这样反驳：因为我有圣灵。 I've had this thrown back at me a couple of times: Because I have the Holy Spirit.
圣灵向我显明，圣经的意思就是我所理解的那样。 The Holy Spirit has shown me that the way I think the Bible speaks is the way it actually speaks.
有人对我说过，他们的版本，他们对圣经的解释是正确的，因为他 们有圣灵，这本质上意味着任何其他对圣经的解释都是错误的。 I've had people say that to me, you know, that their version, their interpretation of the Scripture is the right one because they have the Holy Spirit, which inherently means that any other interpretation of the Scripture is wrong.
或者他们可能会说圣灵有多重性格，所以说圣灵以这种方式引导我，又以 那种方式引导你，但我们俩都对或者都错，这其实是有点不合逻辑的。 Or they might say that the Holy Spirit has multiple personalities, so really it's kind of an illogical thing to say that the Holy Spirit guides me in this way and guides you in that way, but we're both right or we're both wrong.
你看，事实是这样的：如果圣灵确实像我们所说的那样引导你进入一切真理，而你的解 释因为你有圣灵而是准确的，那么我们需要知道你是谁，这样我们都可以来向你学习。 You see, the fact is this: if the Holy Spirit is indeed guiding you into all truth, like we talk about, and your interpretation is accurate because you have the Holy Spirit, then we need to know who you are so we can all come and sit at your feet and learn from you.
因为你拥有这种在某些领域与其他人不同的非凡知识和真理，我们需要知道你在说什么。 Because you possess this incredible knowledge and truth that's different from everybody else, probably in certain areas, and we need to know what you're talking about.
因为如果你有圣灵，而这与你所说的公教会或其他教会的圣灵不同，但 你因为圣灵知道这是对的，那么请告诉我们，这样我们都可以找到你。 Because if you have the Holy Spirit, and it's different from what the Catholic Church has or what other churches have, but you know that it's right because of the Holy Spirit, then please let us know so we can all find you.
好吗？ Okay?
现在我想谈谈为什么我相信公教会是所有教会中最充满圣灵的教会。 Now I want to talk about why I believe that the Catholic Church is the most Spirit-filled Church of all churches.
现在，我知道人们会立刻反应，什么？ Now, I know people are lighting up right now, What?
你疯了吗？ Are you crazy?
但我只是想告诉你我的看法，你可以随意不同意。 But I'm just going to tell you what I think, and feel free to disagree.
这是我的看法：首先，公教会是最充满圣灵的教会的第一个原因，是因 为耶稣将圣灵赐给了使徒们，使他们能够完成一些非常具体的事情。 Here's my view on this: first of all, the reason—number one—why the Catholic Church is the most Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit-filled Church there is, is because Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to the apostles so that they could do some very specific things.
当然，这涉及到我们如何阅读这些经文，主要是在《约翰福音 》中，然后我们会看到它们在《使徒行传》中是如何实现的。 Now, this, of course, deals with how we read these verses, mostly in the Gospel of John, and then we're going to see how they play out in the Book of Acts.
在《约翰福音》中，耶稣将圣灵赐给使徒们的事情发生了。 In the Gospel of John, these things happen where Jesus gives the Holy Spirit to the apostles.
许多信徒，或者许多基督徒，想要做的是将这些经文普遍应用于所有的基督徒。 What a lot of believers want to do, or a lot of Christians want to do, is take those verses and apply them across the board to all Christians everywhere.
当然，这就是我们得出这样的想法的地方：嗯，你有圣灵，你有圣灵，我们都有圣灵。 And that's, of course, where we wind up with this idea that, Well, you have the Holy Spirit, you have the Holy Spirit, we all have the Holy Spirit.
所以无论我们说什么，我们都有圣灵——或者说 祂，因为圣灵是一个位格，而不是一个“它”。 So whatever we say, we all just have it—or Him, because the Holy Spirit's a person, not an it.
我们都有圣灵，因此我们都是充满圣灵的，我们都教导真理。 We all have the Holy Spirit, and therefore we're all, you know, Spirit-filled, and we all teach truth.
但当我们的“真理”彼此冲突时，这种说法就有点站不住脚了，不是吗？ But it kind of breaks down, doesn't it, when our truths go like this, and now we don't agree?
然后我们会想，嗯，等等，也许他们有圣灵而我没有 ，或者我有圣灵而他们没有，或者我们都没有圣灵。 And we go, Well, wait a minute, maybe they have the Holy Spirit and I don't, or maybe I have it and they don't, or maybe none of us have it.
那我们该怎么办呢？ What are we supposed to do?
在《约翰福音》中，我们看到耶稣对使徒们说，我要差遣圣灵给你们。 Well, in the Gospel of John, we see Jesus telling the apostles, I will send you the Holy Spirit.
我要赐给你们这圣灵，祂要引导你们进入一切的真理。 I will give you this Spirit, and He will guide you into all truth.
这就是《约翰福音》16章13节的内容。在《杜埃-兰斯圣经》中是这样 读的：“只等真理的圣灵来了，祂要引导你们明白一切的真理；因为祂不是 凭自己说的，乃是把祂所听见的都说出来，并要把将来的事告诉你们。” So that's John 16, verse 13. Here's the way that it's read in the Douay-Rheims: But when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will teach you all truth; for He shall not speak of Himself, but whatsoever things He shall hear, He shall speak; and the things that are to come, He shall show you.
所以耶稣对使徒们说——这些祂建立教会的基石，并命令他们出去成为教会，传讲 福音的人——祂对他们说，圣灵要降临在你们身上，引导你们进入一切的真理。 So Jesus is saying to the apostles—these men that He was founding the Church on and giving them the command to go out and be the Church and preach the Gospel and all of that—He was saying to them, The Holy Spirit will come to you and is going to guide you into all truth.
这就是教会无误教义的来源。 This is where the Catholic doctrine of infallibility comes from.
我们稍后会详细谈谈这个。 We'll talk more about that in a second.
所以圣灵赐给教会的第一件事就是教导真理，当你仔细想想时，这真的很奇妙。 So the first thing that the Holy Spirit has given to the Church is to teach truth, and it's pretty amazing to me when you think about it.
公教会是唯一一个会说圣灵的这个恩赐保证了我们教会正式的教义和信条是无误的教会。 The Catholic Church is the only Church that will say this gift of the Holy Spirit is what guarantees that our official Church teaching of doctrine and dogma is infallible.
当然，我知道这会引发很多争议，我们可能会在 另一个视频或一系列视频中详细讨论这个问题。 Now, again, I know that opens up a whole can of worms, and we're going to talk about that probably in another video or another series of videos, actually.
但如果你没有这个恩赐，那你在做什么呢？ But if you don't have that gift, then what are you doing?
你怎么知道你所说的任何事情最终是真的呢？ How do you know that anything you say is really ultimately true?
如果你不能宣称这个应许并说，是的，这就是我们相信这个的原因，这就是我们相 信我们的教导是真实的原因，因为它是从圣灵而来的，那么你就有一些问题了。 If you can't claim that promise and say, Yeah, this is why we believe this, and this is why we believe our teaching to be true, because it's come to us from the Holy Spirit, then you've got some problems.
所以第一点是圣灵赐给教会教导真理的能力。 So item number one is to give the Church the ability to teach truth.
其次——好吧，让我们来搅动一下——其次，正如圣 保罗所说，通过教会的和好职事，教会可以赦免罪。 Secondly—okay, let's just stir the pot—secondly, so that the Church, through its ministry of reconciliation, as St. Paul talks about, can forgive sins.
现在我知道，你会说，什么？ Now I know, What?
你在开玩笑吗？ Are you kidding me?
这是支持罗马公教会关于告解和赦罪教义的一节经文，《约翰福音》20章2 2至23节这样说：“说了这话，就向他们吹一口气，说：‘你们受圣灵。’ This is a supporting verse for the Roman Catholic teaching of confession and absolution, and it says in John chapter 20, verses 22 and 23: When He had said this, Jesus breathed on them and said to them, 'Receive ye the Holy Ghost.
你们赦免谁的罪，谁的罪就赦免了；你们留下谁的罪，谁的罪就留下了。 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.'
现在，我听过各种来自反对公教会的人对这些经文的荒谬解释。 Now, I've heard all kinds of crazy different explanations from Catholic haters about what these verses mean.
比如说，赦罪的能力只是意味着传福音，或者说这是赐给所有人的。 Well, the ability to forgive sins just means preaching the Gospel, or This is given to everybody.
但实际上没有人真的这么做，不是吗？ But nobody really does that, do they?
除了当你去告解时，在告解亭里向神父忏悔你的罪。 Except for when you go to confession, and you're in the confessional, and you're confessing your sins to the priest.
这个人，他不是神，但被赋予了神的权柄，以基督的身份坐在 那里，对你这个忏悔的公教徒，一个承认自己罪过的罪人说： ‘我奉父、子、圣灵的名赦免你的罪’，你的罪就被赦免了。 This man, who is not God but who has been given God's authority, sits in the person of Christ and says to you, as the penitent Catholic person who is a sinner and admits their sin, I absolve you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and your sins are gone.
去吧，不要再犯罪了。 Go and sin no more.
这是神赐予的奇妙而有力的恩赐，它被施行出来， 这是非常有力量的，而且就在圣经中清楚记载。 That's a fantastic, powerful gift of God that is exercised, and it's a powerful thing, and it's right there in the Scripture.
你尽管告诉我，我读圣经的方式是错的。 Go ahead and tell me that I'm reading the Bible wrong.
随便吧。 Whatever.
让我猜猜，你认为你读得对，因为你有圣灵。 Let me guess, you're reading it right because you have the Holy Spirit.
好吧，太棒了！ Okay, awesome!
但这是神赐给我们的恩赐：耶稣通过圣灵赐给使徒们的权柄。 But this is a gift that God has given to us: this authority that Jesus gave the apostles in the Holy Spirit.
领受圣灵吧。 Receive the Holy Spirit.
赦免罪。 Forgive sin.
好吧，最后一点——我们快速讲完——就是：圣灵赐给公教会治理教会的使命和权柄。 Okay, and then the last thing—and we're flying through this—is this: the Holy Spirit has given to the Catholic Church the mandate and the authority to govern the Church.
现在，教会需要被治理的这个想法，本身就让一些人感到不安。 Now, the idea that the Church needs to be governed—that in and of itself, some people freak out about.
你是什么意思，治理教会？ What do you mean, govern the Church?
我们不需要人为的传统来告诉我们该做什么。 We don't need a man-made tradition to tell us what we're supposed to do.
我们不需要人来做这件事。 We don't need a man to do that.
好吧，那么你如何解释《使徒行传》第五章中发生的事情呢？亚拿尼亚和撒非 喇策划了一场小阴谋，试图欺骗使徒们，把卖地所得的一部分钱私自留下。 Well, okay, then how do you deal with what happens in Acts chapter 5 when Ananias and Sapphira, you know, have this little scheme where they're going to defraud the apostles of some of the money that they got for selling a piece of land?
当撒非喇来交一部分钱时，彼得说了什么，对吧？ And what does Peter say when Sapphira comes and gives some of the money, right?
她私自留下了一部分？ And she holds it back?
他说了什么？ What does he say?
他在《使徒行传》5章3节中这样说：“彼得说：‘亚拿尼亚，为什么撒 但充满了你的心，叫你欺哄圣灵，把田地的价银私自留下几分呢？’” He says this in Acts 5:3: But Peter said, 'Ananias, why hath Satan tempted thy heart, that thou shouldest lie to the Holy Ghost and by fraud kept back part of the price of the land?'
亚拿尼亚先来，撒非喇随后而来，当然，你知道圣经中接下来发生了什么。 So Ananias comes first, Sapphira comes later, and of course, you know what happens in the Scripture.
你可以自己去读一读。 Just go ahead and read it.
当亚拿尼亚对彼得撒谎时，彼得说：“你欺哄了圣灵”，然后，砰的一声，他就倒地死了。 When Ananias lies to Peter, Peter says, You've lied to the Holy Ghost, and boom, he drops dead.
倒地死了！ Drops dead!
彼得凭什么说出这样的话？ Where does Peter get the right to say something like that?
彼得凭什么说，当你对我撒谎时，就是对圣灵撒谎？ Where does Peter get the right to say that when you've lied to me, you've lied to the Holy Ghost?
现在，我并不认为彼得是在将自己与圣灵等同，但他所说的是，作为教会 的代表，作为基督教会的治理代表，你对我所做的，就是对教会所做的。 Now, I don't think Peter was equating himself personally with the Holy Ghost, but what he was saying was, as a representative of the Church, as the governing representative of Christ's Church, what you do unto me, you've done unto the Church.
彼得在那里的权柄是圣灵所赐予的同样的权柄。 The authority that Peter had there was the same authority that was given by the Holy Ghost.
稍后想一想，当使徒们在处理如何对待基督里的外邦信徒，以及 他们是否需要遵守所有旧约律法的问题时，他们是如何挣扎的。 Think about that a little bit later as the apostles are wrestling through some of the issues surrounding how to treat Gentile believers in Christ and whether or not they were to follow all of the Old Covenant laws.
他们打算怎么做？ What were they going to do?
教会在耶路撒冷聚集，他们必须决定该怎么做。 The Church gathers in Jerusalem, and they have to decide what to do.
有趣的是，他们所做的决定是基于他们对正确之事的理解——他们的权柄。 It's interesting that what they do is based on their understanding of what they think is right—their authority.
但他们对此说的是：“因为圣灵和我们定意，不将别的重担放在你们身上，惟有这几 件事是必须的。”这是《使徒行传》15章28节所说的。然后他们写下了信件。 But what they say to this is, For it hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us to lay no further burden upon you than these necessary things, as stated in Acts 15:28. Then they lay out the letter.
现在，我不是来讨论他们写了什么。 Now, I'm not here to talk about what they laid out.
我要谈的是他们的治理，他们的共同商议，以及他们 努力理解神的旨意，并在圣灵中行使治理的恩赐。 What I'm here to talk about is their governance and their counsel together and their working to understand the mind of God and exercise the gift of governance in the Holy Ghost.
这与圣灵是等同的。 That's equated with the Holy Ghost.
就好像圣灵与他们同在，引导他们做出决策。 It's as if the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit, is there with them, guiding them in their decision-making.
这正是我们所谈论的。 And that's exactly what we're talking about.
这正是公教会关于教会无误教义的教导。 That's exactly what the Catholic Church teaches when it comes to this whole idea of the infallible teachings of the Church.
这并不是说教宗或大公会议的成员是完美的人，他们非常聪明 ，因为他们学习过，所以他们就能搞清一切并且很了不起。 It isn't that the Pope or the councils are perfect people and that they're super smart and they've got it all figured out because they've studied and they're awesome.
好吧，这不是他们的出发点。 Okay, that's not where they're coming from.
这倒是许多反对公教会的人所持的观点。 That's where a lot of anti-Catholics come from.
明白吗？ Okay?
顺便说一句，我觉得很有趣的是，他们想攻击公教会并说：“你们怎么能相信无误性呢？” By the way, I find it very interesting that they want to throw things at the Catholic Church and say, How can you believe in infallibility?
但让我反问一句：我认为他们其实也相信无误性。 But yet, let me throw this back at you: I think that they do believe in infallibility.
只不过他们相信无误性在他们自己身上。 It's just that they believe that they have infallibility.
因为那些对我说“嗯，我知道你是错的，我是对的，因 为我有圣灵”的人，如果你问他们：“你确定吗？” Because those same people that have said to me, Well, I know you're wrong and that I'm right because I have the Holy Spirit, well, if you ask them, Are you sure about that?
他们总是很确定，对吧？ They're always sure about it, right?
他们总是说：“是的，是的！” They're always, Yes, yes!
他们相信自己拥有那种无误的恩赐，或者他们的牧师拥有那种无误的恩赐。 They believe that they have that infallible gift or that their pastor has that infallible gift.
当然，他们从不会直接说出来，但实际上，在现实生活中的表现，这正是他们的行为方式。 Now, they would never come right out and say that, but practically and in real-world application, that's exactly how they act.
因为公教徒永远不可能在任何事情上是对的。 Because the Catholics could never be right about anything.
为什么呢？ Because why?
因为我们有圣经，我们知道真理，我们有圣灵教导我们，当然，婴儿没 有受洗，或者圣餐不是基督的身体和血，或者说“圣经里哪里有写？” Because we have the Bible, and we know the truth, and we have the Holy Spirit that teaches us that, of course, infants weren't baptized, or the Eucharist is not the body and blood of Christ, or Where is that in the Bible?
所有这些反对公教会的陈词滥调，他们都无误地相信这些，不是吗？ All of the stock anti-Catholic stuff they believe that infallibly, don't they?
所以公教徒所做的只是说，是的，我们相信圣灵真的非常擅长祂的工作。 So all the Catholics are doing is saying, Yes, we believe that the Holy Spirit is really, really good at His job.
祂的工作是什么？ And what's His job?
引导教会进入一切真理，赦免罪，并治理教会。 To guide the Church into all truth, to forgive sins, and to govern the Church.
但最终，圣灵的工作——如果你真的想知道公教会关于圣灵的教导——我知道你们 中大多数反对公教会的人永远不会这么做，但我想鼓励你：拿起这本书，好吗？ But ultimately, the job of the Holy Spirit—and if you really want to know what the Catholic Church teaches about the Holy Spirit—and I know most of you Catholic haters out there won't ever do this, but I want to encourage you: pick this book up, okay?
拿起这本书，看看它。 Pick this book up and look at it.
这是《公教会教理》，我鼓励你开始阅读教会关于圣灵的实际教导。 This is the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and I would encourage you to start reading what the Church teaches actually says about the Holy Spirit.
这会让你大开眼界！ It will blow your mind!
这是除了圣经中关于圣灵的记载之外，最美丽的文字。 It's the most beautiful stuff written about the Holy Spirit, other than what's written in the Holy Scriptures.
这非常了不起，我鼓励你去研究并阅读它。 It's incredible, and I would encourage you to look into it and read it.
公教会在《教理》中、在历史中、在信经中对圣灵有许多教导。 The Catholic Church has much to say about the Holy Spirit in the Catechism, throughout history, and in the creeds.
读一读《尼西亚信经》；其中有一整段是关于圣灵的，祂是生命的赐予者。 Read the Nicene Creed; there's a whole section on the Holy Spirit, the giver of life.
我的意思是，这太了不起了！ I mean, it's incredible!
研究一下吧。 Look into it.
但不要说公教会没有圣灵——哪怕一秒钟都不要这么说。 But don't say that the Catholic Church doesn't have the Holy Spirit—not for one second.
你们这些基督徒，我告诉你们：你们表现得好像对圣灵无所不知，但你们有圣灵的果子吗？ See, many of you Christians out there, I'll tell you what: you act like you know everything about the Holy Spirit, but do you have the fruit of the Spirit?
那么，圣灵的果子是什么呢？ Now, what is the fruit of the Spirit?
圣灵的果子是圣灵在你里面运行时所结出的果实。 The fruit of the Spirit is what happens when the Holy Spirit is operating in you.
圣灵的主要工作是引导我们归向基督，使我们更像基督。 Now, the principal job of the Holy Spirit is to lead us to Christ so that we can be made more into Christ's likeness.
圣灵的工作不是高举祂自己，而是指引所有人归向基督。 The job of the Holy Spirit is not to exalt Himself but rather to point all men to Christ.
唯有靠着圣灵，我们才能宣告耶稣是主，祂是基督。 It's only by the Spirit that we can declare Jesus is Lord, that He's the Christ.
那么，圣灵的果子是什么呢？ So what are those fruits of the Spirit?
《加拉太书》第五章。你们知道吗，我今天才发现这个；我一直在学习新东西，大家。 Galatians 5. You know, I found this out today; I'm learning new stuff all the time, you guys.
你们知道，在公教传统中，圣灵的恩赐比新教所承认的更多。 You know that in the Catholic tradition, there are more gifts of the Holy Spirit than what the Protestants acknowledge.
所以在公教信仰中，我们有这些圣灵的恩赐：仁爱、喜乐、和平、忍耐、良善（ 括号里写着“善良”——好吧，我们就用这个词；更容易说）、美德、宽容、温 柔（也可以叫“柔和”）、信德、谦逊、节制（也可以指“自制”）和贞洁。 So in Catholicism, we have these gifts of the Holy Spirit: we have charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity (which in parentheses says kindness—okay, we'll go with that; it's easier to say), goodness, forbearance, mildness (which can be called gentleness), faith, modesty, continency (which can mean self-control), and chastity.
所以还有一些更多的，我不是在说马丁·路德把这些从圣灵的果子中剔除了。 So there are a few more, and I'm not here to say that Martin Luther stripped these things out of the fruits of the Spirit.
老实说，我不太确定为什么它们不同——可能是翻译问题。 I'm not really honestly sure why they're different—probably translation issues.
但我要说的是：圣灵的果子最终引导我们更像基督，充满喜乐、仁爱、和平、良善和善良。 But what I'm saying is this: the fruit of the Spirit ultimately leads us to being more like Christ, to be filled with joy, charity, peace, goodness, and kindness.
为什么当我们彼此谈论信仰时，这些却不适用呢？ Why does that not apply when we're talking to each other about the faith?
你知道，当人们在评论中谈论公教徒时，他们可以说得多么糟糕，这让我感到惊讶。 You know, it's amazing to me how just awful people can be when they say things in the comments about Catholics.
“你们公教徒是这样，你们公教徒是那样。” You Catholics are this, you Catholics are that.
大多数说这些话的人——如果你是无神论者，这部分与你无关——但 如果你自称是基督徒，是耶稣的追随者，而你有时以基督的名义这样 对人说话，那在抨击公教徒时，似乎其他一切都可以被抛到一边。 Most of the people that say that—if you're an atheist, you're off the hook for this part—but if you're someone who claims to be a Christian and a follower of Jesus, and you speak to people the way you do sometimes in the name of Christ, it's like everything else is off the table when it comes to bashing Catholics.
你似乎不需要拥有这些圣灵的果子。 You don't have to have these fruits of the Spirit.
你知道，这只是向我揭示了——这就是为什么我保留了很多这样的评论。 You know, it just reveals to me—and this is why I leave a lot of these comments.
我不会删除它们，除非它们充满了亵渎或完全邪恶的内容，你知道的，无论如何。 I don't remove them unless they're, you know, filled with profanity or they're just downright evil, which, you know, whatever.
我保留它们，因为我认为它向人们展示了，你知道，你会提出所有 这些真理主张，抛出所有这些知识，表现得你很聪明，你知道公教 会是巴比伦的大淫妇——所有这些东西——你是如此聪明，对吧？ I leave them because I think it shows people that, you know, you're going to make all these truth claims and throw out all this knowledge that you're so smart and you know the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon—all this stuff—and you're so brilliant, right?
你离耶稣如此近，但你的行为却像个混蛋。 And you're so close to Jesus, but you act like a jerk.
我认为你自己就证明了你并没有被圣灵充满。 I think you just make the point yourself that you're not filled with the Holy Spirit.
现在，这不仅仅是新教徒的问题。 Now, this isn't just a Protestant thing.
我要说的是：我的公教兄弟姐妹们，我们也可能会这样做。 I'll say this: my Catholic brothers and sisters, we can do this too.
也有一些公教徒表现得相当刻薄。 There are some Catholics out there that are pretty mean too.
所以我只是想鼓励你们，当你们在表达意见、劝勉和与人交谈时 ，作为公教会的代表，要以爱、恩典、仁爱和谦卑来调和一切。 So I just want to encourage you, as you represent the Catholic Church in your opinions and in your exhortations and how you speak to people, season everything with love, with grace, with charity, and with humility.
你们知道，我知道我并不总是能完美地做到这一点，但希望我没有给你们留下那样的印象。 You know, I know that I don't always do that perfectly to you guys, but hopefully I don't come across like that.
当然，也许我确实如此；如果是这样，我向你们道歉。 Now, maybe I do; I apologize if I do.
但我真的、真心地相信，我们需要在彼此交谈的方式上保持谦卑，并最终以爱为核心。 But I really, truly believe that we need to be humble in the way we speak to each other and ultimately loving.
因为我们必须问自己关于圣灵的一切——无论我们是否 有圣灵——最重要的事情不是“我们是否有圣灵？” Because we have to ask ourselves all the Holy Spirit stuff—whether we have the Holy Spirit or whether we don't—the most important thing isn't, Do we have the Holy Spirit?
最重要的是，“圣灵是否拥有我们？” The most important thing is, Does the Holy Spirit have us?
因为如果祂拥有我们，那么我们的生活会有所不同，不是吗？ Because if He does, then our lives are going to look differently, aren't they?
我们的生活会更像耶稣，我们所说的话、彼此交谈的方式以 及我们生活的方式都会向人们展示耶稣是我们所敬拜的主。 Our lives are going to look more like Jesus, and the things that we say, and the way we speak to each other, and the way we live our lives are going to show people that Jesus is who we worship.
你们知道，耶稣说过：“世人要因你们彼此相爱认出你们是我的门徒。” You know, Jesus said, The world is going to know you're my disciples by how you love each other.
所以，让我们在评论中保持爱心；让我们在彼此的关系和互动中保持爱心。 So let's keep it loving in the comments; let's keep it loving in our relationships and our interactions with each other.
通过这样做，你们知道，我们会更加爱耶稣，也会更加被圣灵充满。 And then by doing so, you know, we will be more in love with Jesus and more filled with the Holy Spirit.
愿神祝福你们！ God bless you!
非常感谢你们观看，大家！ Thanks so much for watching, guys!