- start: 5.123
  end: 21.567
  speaker: barron
  en: Following a Trinitarian structure, the Creed moves from the Father to the Son to the Holy Spirit, the Spiritus Sanctus, the Holy Breath.
  zh: 信经按照三位一体的结构，从父到子，再到圣灵，Spiritus Sanctus，圣气。
- start: 23.468
  end: 31.35
  speaker: barron
  en: The Spirit is not a what but a who, the same God of Israel we adore and glorify.
  zh: 圣灵不是一个什么，而是一个谁，就是我们敬拜和荣耀的以色列的神。
- start: 33.371
  end: 43.246
  speaker: barron
  en: He is Zoopoieion, giver of life, who has spoken through the prophets.
  zh: 他是 Zoopoieion，赐生命者，曾借先知说话。
- start: 45.267
  end: 63.511
  speaker: barron
  en: From the very beginning of Jesus' earthly life, this life-giving power of the God of Israel filled Him with fire and wisdom, and this same Spirit Jesus now gives generously to His people.
  zh: 从耶稣在世生命的开始，这位以色列的神赐生命的能力就以火和智慧充满了他，如今耶稣将这同一位圣灵慷慨地赐给他的子民。
- start: 74.834
  end: 81.136
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, we've spoken of the Father and of the Son, so now it's time to speak of the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 我们已经谈论了父和子，现在是时候谈论圣灵了。
- start: 81.397
  end: 88.82
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Here''s the next article of the Creed: I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life.'
  zh: 这是信经的下一条：我信圣灵，主，赐生命者。
- start: 90.12
  end: 92.602
  speaker: barron
  en: Who is this Pneumatagion?
  zh: 这位 Pneumatagion 是谁？
- start: 92.602
  end: 95.079
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the Greek name Pneuma, of course.
  zh: 那当然是希腊文的 Pneuma。
- start: 95.079
  end: 98.961
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of pneumatic tire, maybe in English as the closest cousin.
  zh: 想想 pneumatic tire，也许在英语中是最接近的。
- start: 99.001
  end: 107.304
  speaker: barron
  en: Pneuma means air, wind, or breath, translated to Latin as Spiritus Sanctus—same idea, the Holy Breath.
  zh: Pneuma 意思是空气、风或气息，翻译成拉丁文就是 Spiritus Sanctus——同样的意思，圣气。
- start: 107.844
  end: 113.386
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, maybe a first clarification is that it's definitely a Someone, not a something.
  zh: 首先要澄清的是，圣灵绝对是一个位格，而不是一个东西。
- start: 114.686
  end: 122.709
  speaker: barron
  en: The Creed speaks of the Lord, the giver of life, so we're talking about this divine person, the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 信经称他为主，赐生命者，所以我们谈论的是这位神性位格，圣灵。
- start: 124.025
  end: 129.308
  speaker: barron
  en: The Creed gives that beautiful designation in the Greek, Zoopoieion.
  zh: 信经用希腊文给了这个美丽的称号，Zoopoieion。
- start: 129.769
  end: 134.091
  speaker: barron
  en: It means the maker or the giver of life.
  zh: 意思是生命的创造者或赐予者。
- start: 134.932
  end: 140.636
  speaker: barron
  en: 'There''s the Holy Spirit''s great task and function in nature: He gives life.'
  zh: 这就是圣灵在自然界中的伟大任务和功能：他赐生命。
- start: 140.776
  end: 145.559
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, in the very first line of the Bible, you find a reference to the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 你知道，在圣经的第一行，就有提到圣灵。
- start: 145.799
  end: 157.664
  speaker: barron
  en: We hear that the Ruach Yahweh in the Hebrew, the breath of God, hovers over the surface of the stormy waters, the Tohu Vabohu.
  zh: 我们听到希伯来文的 Ruach Yahweh，神的灵运行在水面上，就是 Tohu Vabohu。
- start: 158.364
  end: 164.406
  speaker: barron
  en: The sense there is like a mother bird hovering over her brood and urging them forward.
  zh: 那感觉就像母鸟在雏鸟上空盘旋，催促它们前进。
- start: 164.406
  end: 166.166
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the sense of the Hebrew.
  zh: 这就是希伯来文的意思。
- start: 166.606
  end: 179.509
  speaker: barron
  en: So from the beginning, the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, gives life, gives order in creation, and stirs things into deeper and deeper life.
  zh: 所以从一开始，神的灵、圣灵，就赐生命，在创造中赐予秩序，并激发万物进入更深的生命。
- start: 181.53
  end: 185.572
  speaker: barron
  en: Think now throughout the Old Testament of the role of the Ruach Yahweh.
  zh: 现在想想在整个旧约中，耶和华的灵的角色。
- start: 185.572
  end: 197.856
  speaker: barron
  en: One of my favorite references is when the prophet Samuel anoints young David, and it says the Ruach Yahweh, same thing, the Spirit of the Lord, rushed upon David.
  zh: 我最喜欢的一个例子是先知撒母耳膏抹年轻的大卫，说耶和华的灵大大感动大卫。
- start: 198.216
  end: 203.478
  speaker: barron
  en: And so the Spirit stirs up the kings and the prophets.
  zh: 所以圣灵激励君王和先知。
- start: 205.919
  end: 209.16
  speaker: barron
  en: The word Ruach is used 378 separate times.
  zh: 「灵」这个词单独使用了378次。
- start: 211.798
  end: 232.79
  speaker: barron
  en: In the Hebrew Scriptures, the word Pneuma, which is really translated into Greek, is used 385 times in the New Testament, and they retain that Old Testament sense of life-giving, what stirs up energy and creativity.
  zh: 在希伯来圣经中，这个词被翻译成希腊文的「灵」，在新约中使用了385次，它们保留了旧约中赐生命、激发活力和创造力的意义。
- start: 232.951
  end: 238.494
  speaker: barron
  en: But now, in the New Testament, the Ruach Yahweh is concentrated upon Jesus.
  zh: 但现在，在新约中，耶和华的灵集中在耶稣身上。
- start: 240.188
  end: 248.135
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of the fact that the Pneuma, the Spirit of the Lord, overshadows the Blessed Mother; that's how she conceives in her womb.
  zh: 想想主的灵如何荫庇蒙福的母亲，她就是这样怀孕的。
- start: 249.537
  end: 258.125
  speaker: barron
  en: It's the Pneuma, it's the Ruach Yahweh that sends Jesus into the desert when the time comes for the temptation.
  zh: 是圣灵、是耶和华的灵在试探的时候把耶稣送到旷野。
- start: 260.228
  end: 267.969
  speaker: barron
  en: After the resurrection, Jesus breathes the Pneuma; He breathes the Spirit into His disciples.
  zh: 复活后，耶稣将圣灵吹给他们，将圣灵赐给他的门徒。
- start: 267.99
  end: 274.815
  speaker: barron
  en: He tells them at the Ascension, Wait here in Jerusalem until the day when the Pneuma, the Spirit, will come upon you.
  zh: 他在升天时告诉他们：「要在耶路撒冷等候，直到圣灵降临在你们身上。」
- start: 274.815
  end: 293.627
  speaker: barron
  en: He's anticipating there, of course, the great day of Pentecost when the Spirit, as He came rushing upon David, now comes rushing upon us, the apostles of Jesus, coming down as tongues of fire and now filling them up with enthusiasm.
  zh: 他当然是在预言五旬节那伟大的一天，当圣灵像感动大卫一样，现在感动我们，耶稣的使徒，如同火舌降下，充满他们的热心。
- start: 293.627
  end: 301.092
  speaker: barron
  en: That beautiful word, of course, just means God in us—enthusiasm to go forth and do the work of the Church.
  zh: 这个美丽的词，当然，就是神在我们里面——热心地去做教会的工作。
- start: 301.693
  end: 308.658
  speaker: barron
  en: I always think of the disciples on the day of Pentecost; they're like the dry bones in that image from the prophet Ezekiel.
  zh: 我总是想到五旬节那天的门徒，他们就像先知以西结异象中的枯骨。
- start: 309.219
  end: 317.939
  speaker: barron
  en: When the Spirit is here directed toward those bones, they rise up and they're covered in flesh, and they go forth as a great army.
  zh: 耶和华对这些骸骨如此说：「我必使气息进入你们里面，你们就要活了。我必给你们加上筋，使你们长肉，皮包其上，使气息进入你们里面，你们就要活了。」
- start: 317.939
  end: 327.525
  speaker: barron
  en: So here are the disciples, who, like dry bones, are lifeless, but now filled with the Pneuma, filled with the Spirit of the Lord, they go forth.
  zh: 所以这里的门徒，就像枯骨一样，没有生命，但现在充满了圣灵、充满了主的灵，他们就出去。
- start: 328.274
  end: 332.557
  speaker: barron
  en: And then we see, don't we, in the Acts of the Apostles?
  zh: 然后我们在使徒行传中看到，不是吗？
- start: 332.878
  end: 341.784
  speaker: barron
  en: So Pentecost is the day when the Spirit comes upon them, but now in the Acts of the Apostles, we see what the Spirit accomplishes.
  zh: 五旬节是灵降临在他们身上的日子，但现在在使徒行传中，我们看到灵成就了什么。
- start: 341.784
  end: 359.288
  speaker: barron
  en: Read every page of the Acts of the Apostles, and you'll see it—all of their preaching, teaching, miracle working, healing, and missionary travel, their facing down persecution—all of it are the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 读使徒行传的每一页，你都会看到——他们所有的讲道、教导、行神迹、医治、宣教旅行，面对迫害——这一切都是圣灵的果子。
- start: 359.288
  end: 369.03
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Remember, I talked about with the Ascension: Jesus doesn''t go away; He goes to a higher point of vantage, seated at the right hand of the Father.'
  zh: 记得我谈到过耶稣的升天：耶稣并没有离去，他是到一个更高的视角，坐在父的右边。
- start: 369.03
  end: 374.351
  speaker: barron
  en: Don't literalize that, but it's an image for Jesus now directing the work of the Church.
  zh: 不要把它字面化，但这是一个意象，表示耶稣现在在指挥教会的工作。
- start: 374.571
  end: 376.052
  speaker: barron
  en: How does He direct it?
  zh: 他如何指挥呢？
- start: 376.912
  end: 379.612
  speaker: barron
  en: By sending forth the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 就是差遣圣灵。
- start: 380.333
  end: 386.054
  speaker: barron
  en: 'You know, an image I love from the Church Fathers: the Holy Spirit is like rainwater.'
  zh: 你知道，我喜欢一个教父的比喻：圣灵就像雨水。
- start: 386.121
  end: 388.162
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of the rainwater that comes down.
  zh: 想想降下的雨水。
- start: 388.243
  end: 396.03
  speaker: barron
  en: So it's one element, but yet it gives rise to this myriad of forms of life.
  zh: 它是一个元素，却产生了无数的生命形式。
- start: 396.05
  end: 401.816
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of every plant, every flower, every tree in all their variety.
  zh: 想想每一种植物、每一朵花、每一棵树，它们的多样性。
- start: 401.816
  end: 404.398
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, they all come forth from the one element.
  zh: 它们都来自同一个元素。
- start: 404.398
  end: 411.765
  speaker: barron
  en: And indeed, think of every animal roaming on the face of the earth; they all depend upon water for the life that's in them.
  zh: 的确，想想地上游走的每一个动物，它们都依赖水来维持生命。
- start: 412.961
  end: 424.448
  speaker: barron
  en: 'So it goes in the order of the Spirit: from the one Spirit come all these different forms of life, and you see it now in the life of the Church.'
  zh: 这就是灵的秩序：从一位灵而来的是各种不同的生命形式，你现在在教会的生命中看到了。
- start: 425.149
  end: 442.24
  speaker: barron
  en: One of the really great texts to illustrate this is 1 Corinthians, chapter 12. Paul is talking about the Church and the way the Holy Spirit, the Ruach Yahweh, the Pneuma Hagion, breathes life into the Church.
  zh: 一个很好的例子是哥林多前书第十二章。保罗在谈论教会，以及圣灵、耶和华的灵、圣灵如何将生命注入教会。
- start: 444.841
  end: 449.344
  speaker: barron
  en: Now there are a variety of gifts, but the same Spirit.
  zh: 恩赐原有分别，灵却是一位。
- start: 449.344
  end: 454.327
  speaker: barron
  en: 'So there''s that idea: the one rainwater giving rise to all this variety.'
  zh: 这就是那个意思：一个雨水产生了所有这些多样性。
- start: 455.308
  end: 459.851
  speaker: barron
  en: To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
  zh: 灵显在各人身上，是叫人得益处。
- start: 459.991
  end: 461.772
  speaker: barron
  en: Very important point, isn't it?
  zh: 这是非常重要的一点，不是吗？
- start: 462.973
  end: 472.479
  speaker: barron
  en: We're never given gifts of the Holy Spirit for our own edification; we're given gifts of the Spirit that we might build up the Church.
  zh: 我们从来不是为自己得造就而领受圣灵的恩赐；我们领受灵的恩赐是为建立教会。
- start: 472.625
  end: 474.568
  speaker: barron
  en: They're given for the common good.
  zh: 这些恩赐是为叫人得益处。
- start: 475.391
  end: 477.074
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, what do they look like?
  zh: 那么，它们是什么样的呢？
- start: 477.817
  end: 499.702
  speaker: barron
  en: To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom; to another, the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another, faith by the same Spirit; to another, gifts of healing by the same Spirit; to another, the working of miracles; to another, prophecy; to another, discernment of spirits; to another, various kinds of tongues; to another, the interpretation of tongues.
  zh: 这人蒙灵赐他智慧的言语，那人也蒙这位灵赐他知识的言语，又有一人蒙这位灵赐他信心，还有一人蒙这位灵赐他医病的恩赐，又叫一人能行异能，又叫一人能作先知，又叫一人能辨别诸灵，又叫一人能说方言，又叫一人能翻方言。
- start: 499.702
  end: 501.083
  speaker: barron
  en: What's Paul talking about?
  zh: 保罗在说什么？
- start: 501.083
  end: 509.53
  speaker: barron
  en: The vibrancy of life within the early Christian community—all these manifestations of the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 早期基督徒群体中生命的活力——所有这些都是圣灵的显现。
- start: 510.694
  end: 512.114
  speaker: barron
  en: Are they still around?
  zh: 它们还存在吗？
- start: 512.955
  end: 513.935
  speaker: barron
  en: You bet!
  zh: 当然！
- start: 514.195
  end: 515.196
  speaker: barron
  en: You bet!
  zh: 当然！
- start: 515.236
  end: 518.377
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, teaching and prophecy and so on—of course!
  zh: 你知道，教导、预言等等——当然！
- start: 518.577
  end: 527.34
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, I would hope right now what we're doing, teaching about the Creed, is coming, please God, from the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 我的意思是，我希望我们现在所做的，讲解信经，愿神悦纳，是出于圣灵。
- start: 527.821
  end: 532.543
  speaker: barron
  en: Whenever the Church teaches, preaches, and shares the Word, that's from the Spirit.
  zh: 每当教会教导、宣讲和分享道，那就是出于灵。
- start: 532.963
  end: 537.184
  speaker: barron
  en: How about more spectacular gifts like the speaking in tongues?
  zh: 那么，像说方言这样更奇妙的恩赐呢？
- start: 537.905
  end: 540.086
  speaker: barron
  en: A reality then and now?
  zh: 那时和现在都存在吗？
- start: 540.326
  end: 549.285
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, not everywhere, not commonly, but I think it does occur in the life of the Church sometimes, equipping people for mission.
  zh: 是的，不是到处都有，也不常见，但我认为它确实有时在教会的生活中出现，装备人去宣教。
- start: 549.705
  end: 559.631
  speaker: barron
  en: There are many stories about that—people going forth on mission to a distant land, and somehow, through the power of the Holy Spirit, they're able to speak in the language necessary.
  zh: 有许多这样的故事——人们去遥远的地方宣教，不知怎的，借着圣灵的能力，他们能说出所需的语言。
- start: 560.251
  end: 568.056
  speaker: barron
  en: Other times, speaking in tongues is more like speaking in this language of heaven that’s beyond our normal speech.
  zh: 有时，说方言更像是在说超越我们正常语言的天国语言。
- start: 569.187
  end: 575.871
  speaker: barron
  en: Interpretation of tongues—sometimes people speak and they don't even know what they're saying, but someone else in the community is able to interpret it.
  zh: 翻方言——有时人们说话，自己都不知道在说什么，但群体中的其他人能翻译出来。
- start: 575.871
  end: 577.772
  speaker: barron
  en: Did that exist in Paul's time?
  zh: 保罗的时代有这种现象吗？
- start: 577.772
  end: 578.672
  speaker: barron
  en: Clearly!
  zh: 显然有！
- start: 579.233
  end: 579.773
  speaker: barron
  en: Still today?
  zh: 今天还有吗？
- start: 579.773
  end: 580.633
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah!
  zh: 有！
- start: 580.633
  end: 585.716
  speaker: barron
  en: Sometimes gifts of healing—what are ordinary gifts of healing?
  zh: 有时是医病的恩赐——什么是普通的医病恩赐？
- start: 585.716
  end: 589.538
  speaker: barron
  en: Every time we anoint someone, we do the sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick.
  zh: 每次我们给人傅油，就是在施行病人傅油圣事。
- start: 589.538
  end: 594.561
  speaker: barron
  en: That involves healing at all kinds of levels, spiritual as well as physical.
  zh: 这涉及各个层面的医治，既有属灵的，也有身体的。
- start: 595.58
  end: 600.002
  speaker: barron
  en: Are there some people who are given this extraordinary gift of healing?
  zh: 有没有人得到这种特别的医病恩赐？
- start: 600.122
  end: 602.503
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, I've met a few in my life.
  zh: 我在生活中遇到过几个。
- start: 602.564
  end: 611.128
  speaker: barron
  en: Again, it's not a common gift, not given to everybody, but there are some who have this very distinctive manifestation of the Spirit.
  zh: 这不是一种常见的恩赐，不是每个人都有，但有些人确实有这种非常独特的灵的显现。
- start: 611.809
  end: 622.334
  speaker: barron
  en: 'In fact, look in the history of the Church: when it moves into a new area, when there''s missionary work, very often that work is accompanied by these miraculous things.'
  zh: 事实上，看看教会的历史：当教会进入一个新地区，当有宣教工作时，往往这些工作伴随着奇迹。
- start: 622.628
  end: 625.149
  speaker: barron
  en: From mirari in Latin, to be amazed at, right?
  zh: 「奇迹」这个词来自拉丁文的 mirari，意思是惊奇，对吧？
- start: 625.149
  end: 628.01
  speaker: barron
  en: It just means things that are really attention-getting.
  zh: 这只是指那些真正引人注目的事情。
- start: 628.01
  end: 634.833
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, and I think understandably, when the Church is moving into a new area, it wants to get the attention of people.
  zh: 我想可以理解，当教会进入一个新地区时，它希望引起人们的注意。
- start: 635.134
  end: 638.655
  speaker: barron
  en: So the miraculous, healing, and so on takes place.
  zh: 所以就有奇迹、医治等发生。
- start: 640.096
  end: 648.86
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, Paul talks here about words of knowledge, and that can mean maybe I'm given an intuition that's for your benefit.
  zh: 你知道，保罗在这里谈到知识的言语，这可能意味着我得到一种直觉，是为你的益处。
- start: 648.86
  end: 651.961
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm given a word of knowledge about you, and I share that.
  zh: 我得到关于你的知识的言语，我分享出来。
- start: 652.332
  end: 658.014
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, in my own experience, I think I've gotten in touch with this.
  zh: 在我自己的经验中，我想我接触过这种情况。
- start: 658.374
  end: 670.497
  speaker: barron
  en: What I mean is sometimes you just receive this conviction, this deep intuition to do something or to say something.
  zh: 我的意思是，有时你会收到一种确信，一种深刻的直觉，要去做某事或说某话。
- start: 670.718
  end: 676.859
  speaker: barron
  en: Maybe it's an article to write, maybe it's a sermon to give, maybe it's something that needs to be said.
  zh: 也许是要写一篇文章，也许是要讲一篇道，也许是要说一些必须说的话。
- start: 677.3
  end: 687.061
  speaker: barron
  en: I know the difference between just discerning it through ordinary deliberation and somehow being seized by the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 我知道通过普通的思考来分辨和被圣灵某种方式抓住之间的区别。
- start: 688.402
  end: 698.967
  speaker: barron
  en: And so this giver of life, now recognized as the Spirit of Jesus, continues to give life in the Church.
  zh: 所以这位赐生命者，现在被认作耶稣的灵，继续在教会中赐生命。
- start: 699.548
  end: 701.309
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, but you know what's really important?
  zh: 好，但你知道什么是真正重要的吗？
- start: 701.309
  end: 711.011
  speaker: barron
  en: I think everybody is to read chapter 13 right after we attend to chapter 12. So chapter 12 speaks of all these various gifts.
  zh: 我认为每个人都应该在读完第十二章后立即读第十三章。所以第十二章讲到所有这些不同的恩赐。
- start: 711.011
  end: 718.134
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Oh, you know, one more I should not forget this: there are the more spectacular ones like speaking in tongues, healing, and words of knowledge.'
  zh: 哦，还有一个我不应该忘记：有更奇妙的恩赐，如说方言、医病和知识的言语。
- start: 718.134
  end: 726.876
  speaker: barron
  en: But Paul talks too about, here it says in this translation, forms of assistance and forms of leadership.
  zh: 但保罗也谈到，这里翻译为帮助的恩赐和治理的恩赐。
- start: 727.077
  end: 730.938
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, some translations render that simply as administration.
  zh: 有些译本简单地翻译为行政。
- start: 732.318
  end: 736.96
  speaker: barron
  en: Not spectacular, but people who administer in the life of the Church.
  zh: 不奇妙，但在教会生活中管理的人。
- start: 736.981
  end: 743.604
  speaker: barron
  en: I remember when I was rector of the seminary, and I had not done a lot of administrative work in my priesthood.
  zh: 我记得当我担任神学院院长时，我在司祭生涯中没有做过很多行政工作。
- start: 743.604
  end: 746.406
  speaker: barron
  en: Most of it had been teaching, preaching, and writing.
  zh: 大部分时间都是在教导、讲道和写作。
- start: 746.466
  end: 754.27
  speaker: barron
  en: Suddenly, I was called upon to be an administrator, worried about money, personnel, and fixing roofs and that sort of thing.
  zh: 突然，我被要求做一个管理者，担心钱、人事、修理屋顶等等。
- start: 754.37
  end: 774.657
  speaker: barron
  en: I remember distinctly the day when, having spent the whole day in this sort of practical administration, I walked back to my room, though filled with a sense of the Spirit, knowing that the decisions I had made that day, please God, were helpful to the place.
  zh: 我清楚地记得有一天，我整天都在做这种实际的管理工作，当我走回房间时，虽然充满了灵的感觉，但知道我那天所做的决定，愿神悦纳，对这个地方是有帮助的。
- start: 774.857
  end: 785.781
  speaker: barron
  en: I really did feel kind of lifted up by the Holy Spirit, and I recognized, yeah, even lowly administration can be one of the signs of the life-giving power of the Spirit.
  zh: 我真的感到被圣灵提升了，我认识到，是的，即使卑微的行政管理也可以是圣灵赐生命能力的标志之一。
- start: 786.121
  end: 795.326
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, that's all 1 Corinthians 12, but now look at 13. And if you've ever been to a Catholic wedding, trust me, you've heard this reading.
  zh: 好了，这就是哥林多前书第十二章，但现在看第十三章。如果你参加过公教会婚礼，相信我，你一定听过这段经文。
- start: 795.326
  end: 799.087
  speaker: barron
  en: But I think it's very important now to see what Paul is doing.
  zh: 但我认为现在很重要的是要看保罗在做什么。
- start: 799.848
  end: 812.114
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Here''s how chapter 13 begins: If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.'
  zh: 第十三章是这样开始的：「我若能说万人的方言，并天使的话语，却没有爱，我就成了鸣的锣，响的钹一般。」
- start: 812.248
  end: 821.895
  speaker: barron
  en: If I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have faith enough to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.
  zh: 「我若有先知讲道之能，也明白各样的奥秘，各样的知识，而且有全备的信，叫我能够移山，却没有爱，我就算不得什么。」
- start: 822.055
  end: 823.376
  speaker: barron
  en: What's he saying here?
  zh: 他在这里说什么呢？
- start: 824.077
  end: 832.743
  speaker: barron
  en: Yes, all these things are manifestations of the Spirit—tongues, knowledge, prophecy, healing, and all that good stuff.
  zh: 是的，所有这些都是圣灵的显现——方言、知识、预言、医治，所有这些美好的事物。
- start: 832.743
  end: 837.186
  speaker: barron
  en: But what must undergird all of it?
  zh: 但什么必须支撑这一切呢？
- start: 837.226
  end: 841.469
  speaker: barron
  en: What is, in fact, the soul and essence of all of it?
  zh: 事实上，什么是这一切的灵魂和本质呢？
- start: 841.85
  end: 843.332
  speaker: barron
  en: It is love.
  zh: 就是爱。
- start: 843.332
  end: 845.735
  speaker: barron
  en: Don't sentimentalize it.
  zh: 不要把它感伤化。
- start: 845.735
  end: 849.8
  speaker: barron
  en: Again, to love—agape is the word Paul used here.
  zh: 再次，爱——agape 是保罗在这里使用的词。
- start: 850.261
  end: 855.147
  speaker: barron
  en: To love is to will the good of the other.
  zh: 爱就是愿意他人的益处。
- start: 856.77
  end: 859.433
  speaker: barron
  en: Now there's the essence of the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 这就是圣灵的本质。
- start: 859.463
  end: 866.866
  speaker: barron
  en: That's what gives life; that's the Ruach Yahweh, that's the Pneuma Hagion, that's the Holy Breath.
  zh: 那就是赐生命的；那就是耶和华的灵，那就是圣灵，那就是圣气。
- start: 866.866
  end: 869.468
  speaker: barron
  en: Ultimately, it's love—the love that God is.
  zh: 最终，就是爱——神就是爱。
- start: 869.468
  end: 873.749
  speaker: barron
  en: And it manifests itself in all these different ways through these various gifts.
  zh: 它通过这些不同的恩赐以各种方式显现。
- start: 873.749
  end: 880.692
  speaker: barron
  en: But see, that means if I've got all those gifts but have not love, they don't mean anything.
  zh: 但你看，这意味着如果我有所有这些恩赐却没有爱，它们就毫无意义。
- start: 880.853
  end: 885.154
  speaker: barron
  en: They've turned into something else; they're no longer the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 它们变成了别的东西；它们不再是圣灵的果子。
- start: 885.315
  end: 888.656
  speaker: barron
  en: They can be some form of selfish manipulation.
  zh: 它们可能是某种形式的自私操控。
- start: 889.42
  end: 893.342
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, no, no, the essence of it is love.
  zh: 不，不，它的本质是爱。
- start: 894.083
  end: 895.964
  speaker: a
  en: Bishop, we've heard a lot about the Trinity.
  zh: 主教，我们听了很多关于三位一体的事。
- start: 895.964
  end: 899.226
  speaker: a
  en: How is the Trinity active in the life of the Church today?
  zh: 三位一体如何在今天教会的生活中活动？
- start: 899.346
  end: 900.327
  speaker: barron
  en: In every possible way!
  zh: 以各种可能的方式！
- start: 900.327
  end: 904.418
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, look, whenever I do this, I'm invoking the Trinity, right?
  zh: 我的意思是，你看，每当我这样做时，我就是在呼求三位一体，对吧？
- start: 904.418
  end: 911.202
  speaker: barron
  en: The Father sent the Son to the limits of God-forsakenness to gather me and all of us into the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 父差遣子到神离弃的极限，为要把我和我们所有人都聚集到圣灵里。
- start: 911.202
  end: 916.345
  speaker: barron
  en: So every prayer that Christians make is made in the name of the Trinity.
  zh: 所以基督徒所作的每一个祷告都是奉三位一体的名。
- start: 916.345
  end: 922.788
  speaker: barron
  en: Whenever we pray through Jesus Christ to the Father in the unity of the Holy Spirit, we're invoking the Trinity.
  zh: 每当我们借着耶稣基督在圣灵的合一中向父祷告时，我们就是在呼求三位一体。
- start: 923.029
  end: 927.451
  speaker: barron
  en: And it's that whole idea of drawing us into the divine life.
  zh: 这就是要把我们引入神的生命中。
- start: 927.651
  end: 933.419
  speaker: barron
  en: God, as it were, opens up His heart—Father, Son, and Spirit—and invites us in.
  zh: 神好像敞开他的心——父、子、灵——邀请我们进入。
- start: 933.459
  end: 938.382
  speaker: barron
  en: So in every prayer, in every sacrament, in every liturgy, the Trinity is involved.
  zh: 所以在每一个祷告、每一个圣事、每一个礼仪中，三位一体都参与其中。
- start: 938.382
  end: 945.507
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Here''s the other thing to say: there''s an idea in Latin, circumincessio.'
  zh: 还有一点要说：有一个拉丁词，circumincessio。
- start: 945.507
  end: 947.529
  speaker: barron
  en: It means sitting in a circle.
  zh: 意思是围坐在一起。
- start: 948.369
  end: 954.594
  speaker: barron
  en: It means the Trinitarian persons always operate together because they share the same Godhead.
  zh: 意思是三位一体的位格总是一起运作，因为他们共享同一神性。
- start: 954.594
  end: 956.255
  speaker: barron
  en: We say the same substance.
  zh: 我们说同一本质。
- start: 956.335
  end: 960.818
  speaker: barron
  en: So you can't talk about, Oh, the Father is on His own doing something, and the Son's over there.
  zh: 所以你不能说，哦，父自己在做什么，子在那边。
- start: 960.999
  end: 963.86
  speaker: barron
  en: Whenever the Son acts, the Father and Spirit are involved.
  zh: 每当子行动时，父和灵都参与其中。
- start: 963.86
  end: 967.881
  speaker: barron
  en: Whenever the Spirit's operative, the Father and Son are sending Him, right?
  zh: 每当灵在运行时，父和子都在差遣他，对吧？
- start: 967.881
  end: 971.022
  speaker: barron
  en: So the Trinitarian persons always sit together.
  zh: 所以三位一体的位格总是一起坐着。
- start: 971.162
  end: 977.504
  speaker: barron
  en: When I spoke in those very first lectures about God's creation, well, it's the whole Trinity who creates.
  zh: 当我在最初的讲座中谈到神的创造时，是整个三位一体在创造。
- start: 977.724
  end: 983.226
  speaker: barron
  en: We have that wonderful song from long ago, Veni Creator Spiritus, right?
  zh: 我们有那首古老而美妙的歌曲，Veni Creator Spiritus，对吧？
- start: 983.226
  end: 985.306
  speaker: barron
  en: Come, Creator Spirit!
  zh: 来吧，创造者圣灵！
- start: 985.346
  end: 988.247
  speaker: barron
  en: So the Spirit creates along with the Father and the Son.
  zh: 所以圣灵与父和子一起创造。
- start: 988.573
  end: 992.296
  speaker: barron
  en: The Father, Son, and Spirit are all Actus Purus.
  zh: 父、子、灵都是纯粹的行动。
- start: 992.356
  end: 998.622
  speaker: barron
  en: The Father, Son, and Spirit together are all the force that sustains the whole cosmos.
  zh: 父、子、灵一起是维持整个宇宙的力量。
- start: 998.622
  end: 1002.846
  speaker: barron
  en: So the Trinity is present now, right now, in this moment.
  zh: 所以三位一体现在就在此刻临在。
- start: 1002.846
  end: 1005.909
  speaker: barron
  en: But more specifically, I think it's in salvation.
  zh: 但更具体地说，我认为是在救恩中。
- start: 1005.909
  end: 1012.214
  speaker: barron
  en: When we say the Father sent the Son to gather us into the Spirit, that's the Trinity at work.
  zh: 当我们说父差遣子将我们聚集到灵里，那就是三位一体在工作。
- start: 1012.597
  end: 1019.72
  speaker: barron
  en: Bishop, we hear about how Moses performed mighty deeds, and Isaiah had insight and foreknowledge of the divine plan.
  zh: 主教，我们听说摩西如何行大能的事，以赛亚如何洞察和预知神的计划。
- start: 1019.72
  end: 1024.883
  speaker: barron
  en: Peter healed, Paul preached—all of this and more through the power of the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 彼得医治，保罗传道——所有这些都是通过圣灵的能力。
- start: 1025.523
  end: 1029.725
  speaker: barron
  en: Are such miracles operative in the Church today?
  zh: 这样的奇迹今天在教会中运行吗？
- start: 1029.725
  end: 1030.366
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, sure!
  zh: 是的，当然！
- start: 1030.366
  end: 1041.779
  speaker: barron
  en: Call it in the more ordinary sense of preaching and teaching and reaching out in love and ministry, and all that is under the aegis of the Holy Spirit, for sure.
  zh: 可以说是在更普通的意义上，讲道、教导、以爱和事工接触，所有这些都在圣灵的庇护下，确实如此。
- start: 1041.779
  end: 1046.463
  speaker: barron
  en: But I think you're driving at the more extraordinary manifestations of the Spirit.
  zh: 但我想你是指圣灵更非凡的显现。
- start: 1046.463
  end: 1051.367
  speaker: barron
  en: So we talked about speaking in tongues, healing, and gifts of prophecy, and so on.
  zh: 所以我们谈到了说方言、医治、预言的恩赐等等。
- start: 1051.467
  end: 1054.81
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, all that's alive in the Church now.
  zh: 是的，所有这些现在都在教会中活着。
- start: 1054.81
  end: 1055.671
  speaker: barron
  en: Universally?
  zh: 普遍吗？
- start: 1055.671
  end: 1064.537
  speaker: barron
  en: No. In fact, the miraculous—from mirari, to wonder at, amazing—well, if it happened all the time, it wouldn't be amazing, right?
  zh: 不。事实上，奇迹——来自拉丁文的 mirari，意为惊奇、惊叹——如果它总是发生，就不会令人惊奇了，对吧？
- start: 1064.537
  end: 1069.381
  speaker: barron
  en: So what makes them amazing is that they're rare, but they're certainly real.
  zh: 使它们惊奇的是它们稀有，但它们确实真实。
- start: 1069.381
  end: 1081.251
  speaker: barron
  en: In the course of my priesthood, I've known some people I think who have the gift of healing, for sure, who have the gift of channeling the Holy Spirit in this very profound way.
  zh: 在我的司祭生涯中，我认识一些人，我认为他们确实有医治的恩赐，有以这种非常深刻的方式传递圣灵的恩赐。
- start: 1081.291
  end: 1083.233
  speaker: barron
  en: So sure, they're operative now.
  zh: 所以，当然，它们现在在运行。
- start: 1083.233
  end: 1084.954
  speaker: barron
  en: Why does God give these gifts to some?
  zh: 为什么神把这些恩赐给一些人？
- start: 1084.954
  end: 1087.536
  speaker: barron
  en: I don't know; that's up to God.
  zh: 我不知道，那由神决定。
- start: 1088.318
  end: 1099.024
  speaker: barron
  en: But up and down the centuries, He seems to distribute the gifts of the Holy Spirit—some more ordinary, others extraordinary—always for His purposes, always for the purpose of love.
  zh: 但纵观几个世纪，他似乎分配圣灵的恩赐——有些更普通，有些非凡——总是为他的目的，总是为爱的目的。
- start: 1099.084
  end: 1104.127
  speaker: barron
  en: But yeah, they're operative in the Church, and if you open your eyes, you'll start seeing them.
  zh: 但它们确实在教会中运行，如果你睁开眼睛，你就会开始看到它们。
- start: 1105.388
  end: 1111.892
  speaker: barron
  en: And now that provides everybody a really good segue into the next article of the Creed.
  zh: 这为大家提供了一个很好的过渡到信经的下一条。
- start: 1112.813
  end: 1115.395
  speaker: barron
  en: So we hear of the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life.
  zh: 我们听到圣灵、主、赐生命者。
- start: 1115.395
  end: 1127.226
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Then we hear this: who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified.'
  zh: 然后我们听到：他从父和子出来，与父子同受敬拜，同享荣耀。
- start: 1127.526
  end: 1133.688
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, go back with me now to that image, that analogy that St. Augustine proposed.
  zh: 好，现在和我一起回到奥古斯丁提出的那个形象，那个比喻。
- start: 1133.688
  end: 1134.589
  speaker: barron
  en: Remember?
  zh: 记得吗？
- start: 1135.229
  end: 1141.571
  speaker: barron
  en: That we're made in the image and likeness of God, but that's not our physical being because God isn't physical.
  zh: 我们是按神的形象和样式造的，但那不是我们的肉体，因为神不是肉体。
- start: 1141.772
  end: 1144.313
  speaker: barron
  en: So Augustine says, Look at the soul.
  zh: 所以奥古斯丁说，看灵魂。
- start: 1144.713
  end: 1146.474
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the image and likeness of God.
  zh: 那是神的形象和样式。
- start: 1146.474
  end: 1160.655
  speaker: barron
  en: Remember, he said man's mind or spirit has this capacity to form an image of itself—Notitio sui, he called it self-knowledge.
  zh: 记得，他说人的心灵或灵有这能力形成自己的形象——Notitio sui，他称之为自我认识。
- start: 1162.015
  end: 1181.363
  speaker: barron
  en: But then man's Notitio sui, the Father and the Son, look at each other because each is utterly perfect; each is a complete sharer in the divine nature.
  zh: 但人的 Notitio sui ，父和子，彼此看着，因为每一个都是完全的，每一个都是神性完全的分享者。
- start: 1182.743
  end: 1194.386
  speaker: barron
  en: 'And as they look at each other, Fulton Sheen put it this way: they sigh their love for each other.'
  zh: 当他们彼此看着时，富尔顿·熙恩这样说：他们叹息着彼此的爱。
- start: 1194.386
  end: 1205.853
  speaker: barron
  en: Remember, to love is to will the good of the other—not in this case the absent good which I'm seeking, but the good that I possess, that I'm savoring.
  zh: 记住，爱就是愿意他人的益处——在这种情况下，不是我所寻求的缺失的益处，而是我所拥有、所品味的益处。
- start: 1205.954
  end: 1211.217
  speaker: barron
  en: The Father, from all eternity, looks at the Son; the Son, from all eternity, looks back at the Father.
  zh: 圣父从永恒中看着圣子；圣子从永恒中回望圣父。
- start: 1211.217
  end: 1218.482
  speaker: barron
  en: And the two of them together sigh forth the Spiritus Sanctus.
  zh: 他们二者一起叹息出圣灵。
- start: 1218.562
  end: 1225.426
  speaker: barron
  en: They sigh forth the breath, which is the love that they share.
  zh: 他们叹息出气息，就是他们共享的爱。
- start: 1225.426
  end: 1232.098
  speaker: barron
  en: Now remember, I said to will the good of the other means with no self-interest.
  zh: 现在记住，我说愿意他人的益处意味着没有私利。
- start: 1233.038
  end: 1239.161
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, maybe the highest saints in this life are able to achieve that pure level of love.
  zh: 我的意思是，也许在今生最高的圣徒能够达到那纯粹的爱的境界。
- start: 1239.822
  end: 1247.466
  speaker: barron
  en: But see, within the divine life, within the life of the Trinity, the Father can't benefit from the Son; the Son can't benefit from the Father.
  zh: 但你看，在神的生命中，在三位一体的生命中，圣父不能从圣子得益；圣子不能从圣父得益。
- start: 1247.466
  end: 1248.806
  speaker: barron
  en: They're God.
  zh: 他们是神。
- start: 1249.547
  end: 1256.03
  speaker: barron
  en: Therefore, the love that they share is the purest possible love.
  zh: 因此，他们共享的爱是最纯粹的爱。
- start: 1257.389
  end: 1258.93
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 那就是圣灵。
- start: 1259.43
  end: 1263.992
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the Holy Spirit—the love between the Father and the Son.
  zh: 那就是圣灵——圣父与圣子之间的爱。
- start: 1263.992
  end: 1267.554
  speaker: barron
  en: You know what's wonderful here, everybody?
  zh: 你们知道这里有什么奇妙的吗？
- start: 1267.554
  end: 1279.259
  speaker: barron
  en: When you look now at the Gospels, we're given this privileged access to the inner life of God because we hear the Son speaking of and to the Father.
  zh: 当你现在看福音书时，我们被赋予了进入神内在生命的特权，因为我们听到圣子在谈论圣父并对圣父说话。
- start: 1279.259
  end: 1290.639
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, in the heart, especially of John's Gospel, when the Son and the Father are in a kind of dialogue, that means we're listening in the Spirit.
  zh: 你知道，在福音书的核心，特别是在约翰福音中，当圣子和圣父在进行某种对话时，那意味着我们在灵里聆听。
- start: 1290.68
  end: 1296.862
  speaker: barron
  en: Because whenever the Father and Son are connected—which they always are—they're connected by the power of the love that they share.
  zh: 因为每当圣父和圣子相连时——他们总是相连的——他们是通过共享的爱的力量相连的。
- start: 1298.002
  end: 1307.766
  speaker: barron
  en: Jesus gives us, as it were, access to this eternal conversation between the Father and the Son, which is the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 耶稣好像让我们进入圣父与圣子之间的永恒对话，就是圣灵。
- start: 1309.079
  end: 1317.821
  speaker: barron
  en: Now I've been speaking about Father, Son, and Spirit, and look what I'm doing—just perforce, because it's a metaphor we have to reach for.
  zh: 现在我在谈论圣父、圣子、灵，看我在做什么——只是因为这是我们必须使用的比喻。
- start: 1317.901
  end: 1322.742
  speaker: barron
  en: Like, there's a thing over here, and a thing over there, and then a thing kind of in the middle.
  zh: 好像这里有一个东西，那里有一个东西，然后中间有一个东西。
- start: 1322.802
  end: 1327.563
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, that's not what these Trinitarian realities are.
  zh: 但这不是这些三位一体的实在。
- start: 1327.943
  end: 1332.644
  speaker: barron
  en: They're not three separate things, like here I am, there's the podium, and there's the camera.
  zh: 它们不是三个分开的东西，不像我在这里，那边有讲台，还有摄像机。
- start: 1332.644
  end: 1337.165
  speaker: barron
  en: These three separate things—that's not right.
  zh: 这三个分开的东西——那不对。
- start: 1338.345
  end: 1339.305
  speaker: barron
  en: What are they?
  zh: 它们是什么？
- start: 1340.862
  end: 1346.825
  speaker: barron
  en: They're called, in the great tradition, persons.
  zh: 在伟大的传统中，它们被称为位格。
- start: 1347.025
  end: 1348.306
  speaker: barron
  en: Personae—that word is interesting.
  zh: Personae——这个词很有趣。
- start: 1348.406
  end: 1352.348
  speaker: barron
  en: Personare in Latin means to sound through, right?
  zh: 拉丁文的 personare 意思是透过发声，对吧？
- start: 1352.348
  end: 1354.99
  speaker: barron
  en: Sonare is to sound, and then per is through.
  zh: Sonare 是发声，per 是透过。
- start: 1354.99
  end: 1359.592
  speaker: barron
  en: So the persona was a mask that an actor would wear in the ancient world.
  zh: 所以 persona 是古代演员戴的面具。
- start: 1359.592
  end: 1367.276
  speaker: barron
  en: They'd hold it up; it had a kind of primitive microphone, you might say, and you'd speak through it—personare.
  zh: 他们会举起它；你可以说，它有一种原始的麦克风，你会透过它说话——personare。
- start: 1367.636
  end: 1370.298
  speaker: barron
  en: So the mask of the actor becomes a metaphor.
  zh: 所以演员的面具成为一个比喻。
- start: 1370.298
  end: 1377.113
  speaker: barron
  en: Here we speak of the person of the Father, the person of the Son, the person of the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 在这里我们谈到圣父的位格，圣子的位格，圣灵的位格。
- start: 1377.113
  end: 1385.215
  speaker: barron
  en: But we don't mean one, two, three, like three things or three persons in the ordinary sense.
  zh: 但我们不是指一、二、三，像三个东西或三个普通意义上的人。
- start: 1386.996
  end: 1390.537
  speaker: barron
  en: St. Augustine was asked, How come we call them persons?
  zh: 有人问圣奥古斯丁，为什么我们称它们为位格？
- start: 1391.237
  end: 1396.179
  speaker: barron
  en: 'His answer: So we have something to say when people ask us what they are.'
  zh: 他的回答是：这样当人们问我们它们是什么时，我们就有话可说。
- start: 1397.0
  end: 1402.124
  speaker: barron
  en: See, what he's saying is don't be misled by the word into thinking they're three separate things.
  zh: 你看，他的意思是不要被这个词误导，以为它们是三个分开的东西。
- start: 1402.344
  end: 1408.349
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Or I love this from St. Anselm in the Middle Ages: What are these three things, Father, Son, and Spirit?'
  zh: 或者我喜欢中世纪圣安瑟伦的说法：这三样东西，父、子、灵是什么？
- start: 1408.349
  end: 1410.17
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, first of all, they're not things.
  zh: 首先，它们不是东西。
- start: 1410.411
  end: 1414.734
  speaker: barron
  en: He said, I know what they are—they're nec quid.
  zh: 他说：「我知道它们是什么——它们是 nec quid」。
- start: 1415.715
  end: 1419.217
  speaker: barron
  en: Necio quid is Latin for I don't know what.
  zh: Necio quid 是拉丁文，意思是「我不知道是什么」。
- start: 1419.758
  end: 1430.203
  speaker: barron
  en: So he's gesturing to the fact that these realities we're calling Father, Son, and Spirit—mens notitia sui, amor sui, right?
  zh: 所以他在指这些我们称为圣父、圣子和圣灵的实在——mens notitia sui，amor sui，对吧？
- start: 1430.323
  end: 1435.765
  speaker: barron
  en: Mind, self-knowledge, self-love—are not things in the ordinary sense.
  zh: 心灵、自知、自爱——不是普通意义上的东西。
- start: 1437.166
  end: 1438.526
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, so what are they?
  zh: 那么，它们是什么呢？
- start: 1438.786
  end: 1445.929
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, Thomas Aquinas, a little bit after St. Anselm, engages in a kind of metaphysical poetry.
  zh: 好吧，圣安瑟伦之后不久的圣托马斯·阿奎那，进行了一种形而上学的诗意表达。
- start: 1446.59
  end: 1450.431
  speaker: barron
  en: He calls them subsistent relations.
  zh: 他称它们为独立的关系。
- start: 1450.772
  end: 1456.398
  speaker: barron
  en: 'That''s very interesting, and here''s why I say it''s metaphysical poetry: because it''s kind of a contradiction.'
  zh: 这很有趣，我之所以说它是形而上学的诗意，是因为它有点矛盾。
- start: 1456.398
  end: 1466.702
  speaker: barron
  en: What he's saying there, in terms of classical philosophy, is that a substance, in classical philosophy, is subsistent.
  zh: 他在这里说的，根据古典哲学，实体是独立存在的。
- start: 1466.702
  end: 1468.922
  speaker: barron
  en: That means it exists kind of in and through itself.
  zh: 这意味着它以某种方式在自身中并通过自身存在。
- start: 1468.922
  end: 1470.963
  speaker: barron
  en: So here I am; I'm a substance.
  zh: 所以我在这里；我是一个实体。
- start: 1470.963
  end: 1472.524
  speaker: barron
  en: That podium is a substance.
  zh: 那个讲台是一个实体。
- start: 1472.524
  end: 1477.045
  speaker: barron
  en: They have subsistence, and I can say, Well, there's a relation between us here.
  zh: 它们有独立性，我可以说：「好吧，我们之间有关系」。
- start: 1477.045
  end: 1481.493
  speaker: barron
  en: So I'm standing behind the podium, or the camera is in front of the podium.
  zh: 所以我站在讲台后面，或者摄像机在讲台前面。
- start: 1481.493
  end: 1484.834
  speaker: barron
  en: There are subsistent things, and then they have relationships.
  zh: 有独立存在的东西，然后它们有关系。
- start: 1486.696
  end: 1491.418
  speaker: barron
  en: The one thing a relationship is not, in classical philosophy, is subsistent.
  zh: 在古典哲学中，关系唯一不是的，就是独立存在。
- start: 1491.418
  end: 1492.478
  speaker: barron
  en: Does that make sense?
  zh: 这有道理吗？
- start: 1492.619
  end: 1495.66
  speaker: barron
  en: It depends upon subsistent things.
  zh: 它依赖于独立存在的东西。
- start: 1496.421
  end: 1504.205
  speaker: barron
  en: But Aquinas says, Well, in the case of the Trinitarian persons, these are subsistent relations.
  zh: 但阿奎那说，在三位一体的位格中，这些是独立的关系。
- start: 1505.486
  end: 1506.786
  speaker: barron
  en: Who's the Father?
  zh: 圣父是谁？
- start: 1507.807
  end: 1511.462
  speaker: barron
  en: The Father is a relationship to the Son.
  zh: 圣父是与圣子的关系。
- start: 1511.462
  end: 1512.522
  speaker: barron
  en: Who's the Son?
  zh: 圣子是谁？
- start: 1513.083
  end: 1515.484
  speaker: barron
  en: The Son is a relationship to the Father.
  zh: 圣子是与圣父的关系。
- start: 1515.484
  end: 1516.764
  speaker: barron
  en: Who's the Spirit?
  zh: 圣灵是谁？
- start: 1516.864
  end: 1520.766
  speaker: barron
  en: The Spirit is the relationship between the Father and the Son.
  zh: 圣灵是圣父与圣子之间的关系。
- start: 1521.026
  end: 1524.607
  speaker: barron
  en: And they subsist from all eternity.
  zh: 他们从永恒中独立存在。
- start: 1525.247
  end: 1530.629
  speaker: barron
  en: From this point of call it luminous darkness, we can make a few more clarifications.
  zh: 从这个所谓光明的黑暗中，我们可以做一些进一步的澄清。
- start: 1530.79
  end: 1536.452
  speaker: barron
  en: The great tradition talks about four imminent relations within the Trinity.
  zh: 伟大的传统谈到三位一体内的四个内在关系。
- start: 1536.472
  end: 1537.592
  speaker: barron
  en: That's what they mean.
  zh: 这就是它们的意思。
- start: 1538.533
  end: 1547.41
  speaker: barron
  en: We have active generation—that's the act by which the Father generates the Son from all eternity, before all eternity.
  zh: 我们有主动的生发——那是圣父从永恒中，在永恒之前生发圣子的行为。
- start: 1547.41
  end: 1549.29
  speaker: barron
  en: The Father speaks the Son.
  zh: 圣父说出圣子。
- start: 1549.491
  end: 1556.833
  speaker: barron
  en: Then there's passive generation—that's the Son receiving the Father.
  zh: 然后是被动的生发——那是圣子领受圣父。
- start: 1557.173
  end: 1561.255
  speaker: barron
  en: 'The back and forth between Father and Son: active and passive generation.'
  zh: 圣父与圣子之间的往来：主动和被动的生发。
- start: 1561.355
  end: 1568.197
  speaker: barron
  en: Then the Father and the Son together actively spirate the Spirit.
  zh: 然后圣父和圣子一起主动地呼出圣灵。
- start: 1568.197
  end: 1570.078
  speaker: barron
  en: Spirare just means to breathe.
  zh: Spirare 就是呼吸的意思。
- start: 1570.296
  end: 1573.417
  speaker: barron
  en: So together, the Father and Son breathe forth the Spirit.
  zh: 所以圣父和圣子一起呼出圣灵。
- start: 1573.417
  end: 1575.557
  speaker: barron
  en: That's called active spiration.
  zh: 这被称为主动的呼出。
- start: 1575.557
  end: 1582.078
  speaker: barron
  en: And then the Spirit, receiving the breath of the Father and Son, that's called passive spiration.
  zh: 然后圣灵领受圣父和圣子的气息，这被称为被动的呼出。
- start: 1582.398
  end: 1607.707
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Now, I know we''re nerding out a little bit with this terminology, but what I love here is it''s naming a dynamic that obtains at the most fundamental level of reality: the Creator God, three persons with these four imminent relations, with a kind of breathing in and breathing out relationship.'
  zh: 现在，我知道我们在这些术语上有点书呆子气，但我喜欢的是它命名了一种在现实最基本层面上存在的动态：创造主神，三个位格有这四个内在关系，有一种呼吸的关系。
- start: 1609.968
  end: 1623.571
  speaker: barron
  en: Relationship is not something secondary or derivative, but rather, relationship belongs to the very deepest structure of being.
  zh: 关系不是次要的或派生的，而是属于存在最深层的结构。
- start: 1624.131
  end: 1635.123
  speaker: barron
  en: Does this give everybody a clue as to why Jesus speaks of love—yes, even love of our enemies—as the most important ethical stance?
  zh: 这是否给大家一个线索，为什么耶稣说爱——是的，甚至爱我们的敌人——是最重要的伦理立场？
- start: 1635.223
  end: 1638.744
  speaker: barron
  en: It's not just ethics; it's metaphysics.
  zh: 这不仅仅是伦理；这是形而上学。
- start: 1639.104
  end: 1644.925
  speaker: barron
  en: It's getting us in touch with the very deepest level of reality.
  zh: 它让我们接触到现实最深层次。
- start: 1645.225
  end: 1651.046
  speaker: barron
  en: That's what we're talking about when we talk about these relations within the Trinity.
  zh: 这就是我们谈论三位一体内关系时所谈论的。
- start: 1652.547
  end: 1662.15
  speaker: barron
  en: Bishop, one of the neuralgic issues that besets the relationship of the Church in the West versus the Church in the East is the famous Filioque controversy.
  zh: 主教，困扰东西方教会关系的一个棘手问题是著名的「Filioque」争议。
- start: 1662.15
  end: 1663.371
  speaker: barron
  en: What is this all about?
  zh: 这到底是怎么回事？
- start: 1663.371
  end: 1664.512
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, it's kind of complicated.
  zh: 是的，这有点复杂。
- start: 1664.512
  end: 1665.453
  speaker: barron
  en: There's a long history.
  zh: 这有很长的历史。
- start: 1665.453
  end: 1669.595
  speaker: barron
  en: Filioque in Latin means and from the Son.
  zh: 拉丁文的「Filioque」意思是「和子」。
- start: 1669.616
  end: 1675.22
  speaker: barron
  en: So we say in the Creed that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and from the Son.
  zh: 所以我们在信经中说圣灵从父和子出来。
- start: 1675.34
  end: 1679.878
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, in the original Nicene Creed, it doesn't say Filioque.
  zh: 然而，在原来的尼西亚信经中，并没有「Filioque」。
- start: 1679.878
  end: 1682.36
  speaker: barron
  en: It doesn't say from the Father and from the Son.
  zh: 它没有说从父和子。
- start: 1682.36
  end: 1684.642
  speaker: barron
  en: It says proceeds from the Father.
  zh: 它说从父出来。
- start: 1684.642
  end: 1691.368
  speaker: barron
  en: So that phrase was not originally in the Nicene Creed but was added in the West, first at the Council of Toledo.
  zh: 所以那句话原本不在尼西亚信经中，而是在西方首先在托莱多会议上添加的。
- start: 1691.368
  end: 1697.533
  speaker: barron
  en: It was actually Charlemagne who made it very standard in the West, and then it became part of our tradition.
  zh: 实际上是查理曼大帝使它在西方成为标准，然后它成为我们传统的一部分。
- start: 1697.793
  end: 1701.616
  speaker: barron
  en: We say the Spirit proceeds from the Father and from the Son.
  zh: 我们说圣灵从父和子出来。
- start: 1701.696
  end: 1708.729
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, what worries some is that it can make the Spirit seem subordinate to the Father and Son.
  zh: 现在，有人担心这会使圣灵看起来从属于父和子。
- start: 1708.729
  end: 1718.215
  speaker: barron
  en: If the Father and the Son together spirate or give rise to the Spirit, it can make the Spirit seem subordinate to the Father and the Son.
  zh: 如果父和子一起呼出或产生圣灵，这会使圣灵看起来从属于父和子。
- start: 1718.255
  end: 1722.158
  speaker: barron
  en: The other problem is it seems to compromise the primacy of the Father.
  zh: 另一个问题是它似乎损害了父的首位。
- start: 1722.478
  end: 1729.763
  speaker: barron
  en: So if it's from the Father and the Son, it sounds like the Father's primacy within the Trinity is compromised.
  zh: 所以如果是从父和子出来，听起来好像父在三位一体中的首位受到损害。
- start: 1729.818
  end: 1735.681
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, St. Thomas Aquinas in the West said no, because look, whatever the Son has, he has from the Father.
  zh: 现在，西方的圣托马斯·阿奎那说不，因为你看，子所有的都是从父来的。
- start: 1735.681
  end: 1744.284
  speaker: barron
  en: So we're not compromising the Father's primacy, nor are we subordinating the Spirit, because Father, Son, and Spirit all share the same nature.
  zh: 所以我们没有损害父的首位，也没有使圣灵从属，因为父、子、灵共享同一性。
- start: 1744.345
  end: 1747.086
  speaker: barron
  en: So the West said no, those aren't serious problems.
  zh: 所以西方说不，那些不是严重的问题。
- start: 1747.086
  end: 1756.97
  speaker: barron
  en: And if you consult the Gospel of John, Jesus does seem to say, The Father and I will send the Spirit, or The Father will send the Spirit in my name.
  zh: 如果你查阅约翰福音，耶稣似乎确实说过，父和我要差遣圣灵，或者父要奉我的名差遣圣灵。
- start: 1757.546
  end: 1765.891
  speaker: barron
  en: Now you're probably picking up from this that this might be much ado about nothing, and actually, I agree with that.
  zh: 现在你可能从中看出这可能是无事生非，实际上，我同意这一点。
- start: 1766.512
  end: 1769.534
  speaker: barron
  en: I think there's very little to this controversy.
  zh: 我认为这场争议没什么实质内容。
- start: 1769.654
  end: 1774.097
  speaker: barron
  en: I kind of think what we mean by putting it in, they mean by taking it out.
  zh: 我有点认为我们加上它的意思，就是他们去掉它的意思。
- start: 1774.097
  end: 1779.7
  speaker: barron
  en: I think if you look at the respective theologians, there really isn't a lot to this controversy.
  zh: 我认为如果你看各自的神学家，这场争议真的没什么内容。
- start: 1779.721
  end: 1786.765
  speaker: barron
  en: I frankly wish we could drop it, and it would pave the way to a greater unity between East and West.
  zh: 坦率地说，我希望我们能放弃它，这将为东西方更大的合一铺平道路。
- start: 1787.887
  end: 1794.208
  speaker: barron
  en: With that, I want to move to one of the most wonderful and mysterious sections in the New Testament.
  zh: 说到这里，我想转到新约中最美妙和奥秘的部分之一。
- start: 1794.368
  end: 1805.231
  speaker: barron
  en: It's toward the end of the Gospel of John, chapters 13 through 16, called the Farewell Discourse, culminating in what's called the High Priestly Discourse.
  zh: 在约翰福音的末尾，13到16章，称为告别辞，以所谓的大祭司祷告为高潮。
- start: 1805.331
  end: 1816.946
  speaker: barron
  en: By far the longest speech of Jesus anywhere in the New Testament, we hear Jesus speaking of the Father and of the Spirit.
  zh: 这是新约中耶稣最长的讲话，我们听到耶稣谈论父和圣灵。
- start: 1816.946
  end: 1822.888
  speaker: barron
  en: So it's such a privileged moment—the Son speaking of the other two persons of the Trinity.
  zh: 这是一个如此特权的时刻——圣子在谈论三位一体的另外两位。
- start: 1822.888
  end: 1829.93
  speaker: barron
  en: We're in a very, very high place now, and I want to draw your attention to this.
  zh: 我们现在处在一个非常高的境界，我想引起你们的注意。
- start: 1830.791
  end: 1841.034
  speaker: barron
  en: Jesus says to His apostles, And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever.
  zh: 耶稣对他的使徒说：「我要求父，父就另外赐给你们一位保惠师，叫他永远与你们同在。」
- start: 1841.034
  end: 1844.155
  speaker: barron
  en: Now there's one of the great names of the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 这就是圣灵的一个伟大名称。
- start: 1844.793
  end: 1848.814
  speaker: barron
  en: The Greek term is Parakletos, so we say Paraclete.
  zh: 希腊文是 Parakletos，所以我们说保惠师。
- start: 1849.594
  end: 1851.474
  speaker: barron
  en: Kalein means to call.
  zh: Kalein 意思是呼叫。
- start: 1851.954
  end: 1860.576
  speaker: barron
  en: The Parakletos was someone that you called to your side, like a lawyer or an advisor during a trial.
  zh: Parakletos 是你呼叫到身边的人，就像审判时的律师或顾问。
- start: 1860.576
  end: 1862.036
  speaker: barron
  en: Come on, help me here!
  zh: 来吧，帮帮我！
- start: 1862.236
  end: 1868.897
  speaker: barron
  en: The Parakletos would stand and would speak on your behalf or help you speak—that's the idea.
  zh: Parakletos 会站在你身边，为你说话或帮助你说话——这就是意思。
- start: 1868.977
  end: 1876.523
  speaker: barron
  en: So, I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Parakletos to be with you forever.
  zh: 所以，「我要求圣父，圣父就另外赐给你们一位保惠师，叫他永远与你们同在。」
- start: 1877.164
  end: 1878.984
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, what does He do?
  zh: 那么，他做什么呢？
- start: 1880.005
  end: 1892.849
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Listen now: But the Advocate, the Parakletos, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all that I have said to you.'
  zh: 现在听着：「但保惠师，就是父因我的名所要差来的圣灵，他要将一切的事指教你们，并且要叫你们想起我对你们所说的一切话。」
- start: 1894.649
  end: 1899.671
  speaker: barron
  en: The Parakletos, sent by the Father and the Son, is linked to the Son.
  zh: 圣父和圣子所差来的保惠师，与圣子相连。
- start: 1899.89
  end: 1909.614
  speaker: barron
  en: He's the Spirit of the Son, and He will tell you everything you need to know about the Son, reminding you of all that the Son has said that perhaps you've forgotten.
  zh: 他是圣子的灵，他要将你们需要知道的关于圣子的一切告诉你们，提醒你们圣子所说的一切，也许你们已经忘记了。
- start: 1912.275
  end: 1922.519
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Go further: When the Spirit of truth comes, the Parakletos, He will guide you into all truth.'
  zh: 更进一步：「只等真理的圣灵来了，他要引导你们明白一切的真理。」
- start: 1923.5
  end: 1924.62
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of the apostles now.
  zh: 现在想想使徒们。
- start: 1924.62
  end: 1926.481
  speaker: barron
  en: This is the night of the Last Supper.
  zh: 这是最后晚餐的夜晚。
- start: 1926.69
  end: 1929.633
  speaker: barron
  en: We're at the very beginning of the Church.
  zh: 我们处在教会的起始。
- start: 1929.633
  end: 1933.356
  speaker: barron
  en: This is the seed of the Church—these 12 apostles of Jesus.
  zh: 这是教会的种子——耶稣的这十二使徒。
- start: 1934.897
  end: 1937.62
  speaker: barron
  en: There they are in intimate union with Jesus Himself.
  zh: 他们与耶稣自己亲密相连。
- start: 1937.62
  end: 1944.546
  speaker: barron
  en: However, do they at that moment have the entirety of truth?
  zh: 然而，他们在那时拥有全部的真理吗？
- start: 1944.846
  end: 1945.347
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, no.
  zh: 不。
- start: 1945.347
  end: 1952.393
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, if you had asked one of those apostles that night about the four imminent relations of the Trinity, trust me, they couldn't have told you.
  zh: 我的意思是，如果你那晚问其中一个使徒关于三位一体的四个内在关系，相信我，他们说不出来。
- start: 1954.636
  end: 1959.699
  speaker: barron
  en: What's the role of the Parakletos whom Jesus will send to them?
  zh: 耶稣要差给他们的保惠师的角色是什么？
- start: 1959.699
  end: 1966.582
  speaker: barron
  en: He'll send it into the Church to guide them forever, guiding them into all truth.
  zh: 他要差他到教会里，永远引导他们，引导他们明白一切的真理。
- start: 1966.642
  end: 1976.267
  speaker: barron
  en: The Spirit is the power now which presides over the Church's exploration of the fullness of truth.
  zh: 圣灵是现在掌管教会探索全部真理的力量。
- start: 1976.947
  end: 1984.331
  speaker: barron
  en: 'It''s beautiful: here at the very dawn of the Church, Jesus promises the Spirit who will guide the Church forever.'
  zh: 这很美：在教会的黎明，耶稣应许圣灵要永远引导教会。
- start: 1984.386
  end: 1988.669
  speaker: barron
  en: Throughout its long life—it's been 2000 years as I speak these words—how much longer?
  zh: 在教会漫长的生命中——当我说这些话时，已经2000年了——还要多久？
- start: 1988.669
  end: 1994.834
  speaker: barron
  en: I don't know when the Lord will come back, but we have the guarantee of the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 我不知道主何时再来，但我们有保惠师圣灵的保证。
- start: 1995.575
  end: 2003.941
  speaker: barron
  en: You know what comes to mind here is the great Protestant theologian Karl Barth, arguably the greatest Protestant thinker of the 20th century.
  zh: 你知道我想到的是伟大的新教神学家卡尔·巴特，可以说是20世纪最伟大的新教思想家。
- start: 2004.321
  end: 2012.487
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Karl Barth said this: from the very idea of revelation, we can come to understand the Trinity.'
  zh: 卡尔·巴特说：从启示的观念本身，我们可以理解三位一体。
- start: 2012.487
  end: 2019.433
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Now here''s what he meant by revelation: we mean that God has spoken, right?'
  zh: 现在他所说的启示是什么意思：我们是说神已经说话了，对吧？
- start: 2019.933
  end: 2021.674
  speaker: barron
  en: God has spoken to His people.
  zh: 神已经对他的子民说话。
- start: 2021.674
  end: 2025.654
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, if God has spoken, there must be a speaker.
  zh: 那么，如果神说话，就必有说话者。
- start: 2027.035
  end: 2028.595
  speaker: barron
  en: We call Him the Father.
  zh: 我们称他为圣父。
- start: 2029.475
  end: 2032.976
  speaker: barron
  en: If God has spoken, there must be a word that He's spoken.
  zh: 如果神说话，就必有他所说的话。
- start: 2033.336
  end: 2034.396
  speaker: barron
  en: We call that the Son.
  zh: 我们称那为圣子。
- start: 2034.396
  end: 2048.955
  speaker: barron
  en: And if God has spoken, and it's really God who's spoken—not just some human philosopher—then there must be an interpreter of the Word.
  zh: 如果神说话，而且真的是神在说话——不只是某个人类哲学家——那么就必有解释这道的。
- start: 2050.075
  end: 2057.117
  speaker: barron
  en: There must be an equally divine person who interprets the Word that the Father has spoken.
  zh: 必有同样神性的位格来解释圣父所说的道。
- start: 2058.198
  end: 2060.759
  speaker: barron
  en: That interpreter is the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 那解释者就是圣灵。
- start: 2060.759
  end: 2068.301
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, see, he's coming right out of this idea of the Parakletos who will lead you into all truth.
  zh: 你看，他正是从这位要引导你们明白一切真理的保惠师的观念中得出的。
- start: 2069.382
  end: 2080.465
  speaker: barron
  en: Go back now a few decades before Karl Barth to the greatest Catholic theologian of the 19th century, the now newly canonized Saint John Henry Newman.
  zh: 现在回到卡尔·巴特之前的几十年，19世纪最伟大的天主教神学家，现已被封圣的圣约翰·亨利·纽曼。
- start: 2082.305
  end: 2089.807
  speaker: barron
  en: Newman reflected quite a bit on the Holy Spirit, especially in terms of what he called the development of doctrine.
  zh: 纽曼对圣灵有很多反思，特别是在他所谓的教义发展方面。
- start: 2090.407
  end: 2107.756
  speaker: barron
  en: Newman had this keen idea that yes, the truth spoken by the Father to the Son is delivered to the Church, but it's not delivered in the manner of a football—this sort of self-contained thing that is then just simply passed on from generation to generation.
  zh: 纽曼有一个敏锐的想法，是的，圣父对圣子所说的真理传递给教会，但不是以足球的方式传递——这种自成一体的东西只是简单地代代相传。
- start: 2108.396
  end: 2112.737
  speaker: barron
  en: Rather, Newman says, the truth unfolds.
  zh: 相反，纽曼说，真理是展开的。
- start: 2112.737
  end: 2135.015
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of it like a river that begins at a very small source and then unfolds across space and time, becoming greater and greater as other tributaries contribute to it, etc. Or he said it's like a tree that grows from a very small seed, but then over time it develops and spreads out through space and becomes this great mighty tree.
  zh: 想想它像一条河，从一个很小的源头开始，然后在空间和时间中展开，随着其他支流的汇入，变得越来越大，等等。或者他说它像一棵树，从一个很小的种子长出来，但随着时间的推移，它在空间中发展和扩展，成为这棵伟大的大树。
- start: 2136.477
  end: 2139.578
  speaker: barron
  en: So it goes, he said, in the life of the mind.
  zh: 他说，在心灵的生命中也是如此。
- start: 2140.419
  end: 2144.622
  speaker: barron
  en: So an idea is planted—let's say the idea of the Incarnation.
  zh: 所以一个思想被植入——比如说道成肉身的思想。
- start: 2145.523
  end: 2147.785
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, that's present for sure in the New Testament.
  zh: 是的，那在新约中确实存在。
- start: 2147.785
  end: 2150.226
  speaker: barron
  en: That God has become one of us.
  zh: 神成为我们中的一员。
- start: 2150.307
  end: 2154.392
  speaker: barron
  en: Paul says God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.
  zh: 保罗说，神在基督里叫世人与自己和好。
- start: 2154.392
  end: 2160.359
  speaker: barron
  en: There's a seminal source of the idea of the Incarnation.
  zh: 这是道成肉身思想的种子来源。
- start: 2160.7
  end: 2172.893
  speaker: barron
  en: But then, across space and across time, as that idea is ruminated upon and reflected upon, all its different aspects are entertained.
  zh: 但随后，随着时间和空间的推移，当这个思想被反思和沉思时，它的所有不同方面都被考虑。
- start: 2172.893
  end: 2181.82
  speaker: barron
  en: And then that idea is tossed to someone else who does the same thing—thinks it through and asks questions about it—and then throws it back to the original interlocutor.
  zh: 然后这个思想被抛给另一个人，他也做同样的事情——思考它，提出问题——然后再抛回给原来的对话者。
- start: 2181.82
  end: 2186.344
  speaker: barron
  en: And then the two of them throw it to another group who do the same thing.
  zh: 然后他们两个把它抛给另一个团体，他们也做同样的事情。
- start: 2186.344
  end: 2192.789
  speaker: barron
  en: And then, across time, that idea is tossed on and on, and the same process happens.
  zh: 然后，随着时间的推移，这个思想被不断地传递，同样的过程发生。
- start: 2192.81
  end: 2202.508
  speaker: barron
  en: It's like Newman said, taking a diamond and tossing it up into the sky, and it catches the light in different ways, so different aspects of it emerge.
  zh: 就像纽曼说的，把一颗钻石抛向天空，它以不同的方式捕捉光线，所以它的不同方面显现出来。
- start: 2204.81
  end: 2211.635
  speaker: barron
  en: Ideas exist, Newman said, not on the page but in the play of lively minds.
  zh: 纽曼说，思想不是存在于纸上，而是存在于活跃的心灵的互动中。
- start: 2212.136
  end: 2213.677
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, so it goes, doesn't it?
  zh: 嗯，就是这样，不是吗？
- start: 2213.677
  end: 2217.78
  speaker: barron
  en: Up and down the centuries, doctrine develops.
  zh: 纵观几个世纪，教义在发展。
- start: 2218.021
  end: 2224.566
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, moreover, because it develops, it's always in danger of corruption.
  zh: 而且，因为它在发展，它总是有被腐化的危险。
- start: 2225.37
  end: 2229.011
  speaker: barron
  en: There could be a weird errant idea we entertained—one earlier, right?
  zh: 我们可能会接受一个奇怪的错误思想——早期的一个，对吧？
- start: 2229.011
  end: 2233.852
  speaker: barron
  en: The idea of Arius, his erroneous idea about the Incarnation.
  zh: 亚略的思想，他关于道成肉身的错误思想。
- start: 2233.852
  end: 2235.852
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, that can happen.
  zh: 好吧，那是可能发生的。
- start: 2236.953
  end: 2239.453
  speaker: barron
  en: So what's needed?
  zh: 那么需要什么呢？
- start: 2240.154
  end: 2254.897
  speaker: barron
  en: What's needed is the Parakletos whom Jesus promised to His Church, who will stand by your side, speak for you, advocate for you, and guide you into all truth.
  zh: 需要的是耶稣应许给他教会的保惠师，他要站在你身边，为你说话，为你辩护，引导你明白一切的真理。
- start: 2255.492
  end: 2258.115
  speaker: barron
  en: How is the Parakletos operating?
  zh: 保惠师如何运行？
- start: 2258.115
  end: 2276.571
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, in and through this long, complicated process of the development of doctrine, as the Church moves ever deeper into the truth, further discriminating between a legitimate development and a corruption.
  zh: 在这漫长而复杂的教义发展过程中，随着教会不断深入真理，进一步区分合法的发展和腐化。
- start: 2277.553
  end: 2285.416
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Now let me make this very specific in a Catholic sense: is there a privileged agent of this process?'
  zh: 现在让我在公教会的意义上具体说明：这个过程有特权的代理吗？
- start: 2285.416
  end: 2290.718
  speaker: barron
  en: So the Holy Spirit is the first cause, but is there a privileged agent?
  zh: 圣灵是第一因，但有特权的代理吗？
- start: 2290.919
  end: 2301.482
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, we would say the bishops, as formal teachers of the Church under the headship of the Pope, the successor of the Prince of the Apostles.
  zh: 是的，我们会说是主教们，作为教会的正式教师，在教宗，使徒之长的继承者的领导下。
- start: 2303.203
  end: 2316.697
  speaker: barron
  en: The Holy Spirit, we say, the Parakletos, operating through these great ecclesial agencies, guides the Church into all truth.
  zh: 我们说，圣灵，保惠师，通过这些伟大的教会机构运行，引导教会明白一切的真理。
- start: 2317.257
  end: 2333.263
  speaker: barron
  en: There's a speaker, the Father; there's a spoken word, the Son; and then there's this great interpreter of the Word, the Holy Spirit, who, through the agencies of the Church—through its bishops and the popes—guides the process of the development of doctrine.
  zh: 有说话者，圣父；有所说的话，圣子；然后有这位伟大的解释者，圣灵，他通过教会的机构——通过主教和教宗——引导教义发展的过程。
- start: 2333.263
  end: 2340.226
  speaker: barron
  en: I think that's a really interesting way to apply what's stated here in the High Priestly Discourse.
  zh: 我认为这是一个非常有趣的方式来应用大祭司祷告中所述的内容。
- start: 2340.931
  end: 2347.552
  speaker: barron
  en: Bishop, can you say a little bit more about what the word person means in reference to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
  zh: 主教，你能多说一点关于「位格」这个词在指圣父、圣子和圣灵时的意思吗？
- start: 2347.553
  end: 2352.394
  speaker: barron
  en: In a way, I can't, because if you start saying a lot about it, you're going to be misleading.
  zh: 在某种程度上，我不能，因为如果你开始说很多，你就会误导人。
- start: 2352.494
  end: 2357.915
  speaker: barron
  en: See, in classical philosophy, a person is an instance of a rational nature.
  zh: 在古典哲学中，位格是理性本性的一个实例。
- start: 2357.915
  end: 2358.855
  speaker: barron
  en: That's abstract talk.
  zh: 这是抽象的说法。
- start: 2358.855
  end: 2362.576
  speaker: barron
  en: But what I mean is, take a nature like humanity.
  zh: 但我的意思是，拿人性这样的本性来说。
- start: 2362.901
  end: 2364.262
  speaker: barron
  en: Now that's a rational nature.
  zh: 那是一个理性本性。
- start: 2364.262
  end: 2369.524
  speaker: barron
  en: Human beings have mind and will, so an instance of that nature would be a person.
  zh: 人有心灵和意志，所以这种本性的一个实例就是一个位格。
- start: 2369.544
  end: 2377.688
  speaker: barron
  en: You're a person, I'm a person, he's a person—we're all instances, particular examples of a rational nature, right?
  zh: 你是一个位格，我是一个位格，他是一个位格——我们都是理性本性的实例，具体例子，对吧？
- start: 2377.789
  end: 2382.03
  speaker: barron
  en: That's why I'm a person, but the tree is not a person; that's an instance of an irrational nature.
  zh: 这就是为什么我是一个位格，但树不是位格；那是非理性本性的一个实例。
- start: 2382.051
  end: 2385.412
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, well, that's not what we're talking about at all in the Trinity.
  zh: 好吧，那完全不是我们在三位一体中谈论的。
- start: 2385.412
  end: 2393.395
  speaker: barron
  en: Not as though there's some kind of nature of God which now has three instantiations of it—there's this person, that person, and that person.
  zh: 不是说神有某种本性，现在有三个实例——这个位格，那个位格，那个位格。
- start: 2393.596
  end: 2398.058
  speaker: barron
  en: So we don't mean that, and that's why the word itself is very misleading.
  zh: 所以我们不是那个意思，这就是为什么这个词本身很误导人。
- start: 2398.079
  end: 2403.522
  speaker: barron
  en: Which is why, as I point out, I think in the talk, when Augustine was asked, Well, why do you call them persons?
  zh: 这就是为什么，正如我在讲座中指出的，当有人问奥古斯丁，为什么你称它们为位格？
- start: 2403.522
  end: 2407.024
  speaker: barron
  en: He said, So I got something to say when they asked me what they are.
  zh: 他说，这样当他们问我它们是什么时，我就有话可说。
- start: 2407.244
  end: 2409.086
  speaker: barron
  en: Because call them what?
  zh: 因为叫什么呢？
- start: 2409.086
  end: 2411.067
  speaker: barron
  en: Essences or things?
  zh: 本质或东西？
- start: 2411.487
  end: 2412.928
  speaker: barron
  en: Those don't work either.
  zh: 那些也不合适。
- start: 2412.968
  end: 2420.133
  speaker: barron
  en: In some ways, it's the least objectionable word to use because you don't want to give the impression you're dealing with three separate beings.
  zh: 在某些方面，这是最不令人反感的词，因为你不想给人一种印象，认为你在处理三个独立的存在。
- start: 2420.133
  end: 2421.874
  speaker: barron
  en: That's not what the Trinity is.
  zh: 那不是三位一体。
- start: 2421.975
  end: 2428.538
  speaker: barron
  en: So I guess, in a way, I'm going to resist your question because if I try to be more precise, I'm going to lead you down the wrong road.
  zh: 所以我想，在某种程度上，我要抵制你的问题，因为如果我试图更精确，我会把你引入歧途。
- start: 2428.759
  end: 2433.662
  speaker: barron
  en: Call them necio quids, as Anselm did—I don't know what they are.
  zh: 像安瑟伦那样称它们为 necio quids——我不知道它们是什么。
- start: 2433.722
  end: 2439.426
  speaker: barron
  en: Call them, as Thomas did, subsistent relations, which is also kind of like, I don't know, what does that mean?
  zh: 像托马斯那样称它们为独立的关系，这也有点像，我不知道，那是什么意思？
- start: 2439.426
  end: 2441.466
  speaker: barron
  en: It's like saying a spiritual body.
  zh: 这就像说灵体。
- start: 2441.887
  end: 2453.242
  speaker: barron
  en: But all the theologians are gesturing toward the fact that we don't really know what we're talking about when we name these utterly unique modalities of being.
  zh: 但所有神学家都在指向这样一个事实：当我们命名这些完全独特的存在方式时，我们并不真正知道我们在谈论什么。
- start: 2453.403
  end: 2459.408
  speaker: barron
  en: 'So to press it: the Trinity doesn''t have different personalities and attitudes.'
  zh: 所以要强调的是：三位一体没有不同的个性和态度。
- start: 2459.408
  end: 2463.972
  speaker: barron
  en: No, I wouldn't say that, as though the Father is kind of grumpy and the Son's in a good mood.
  zh: 不，我不会那样说，好像圣父有点暴躁，圣子心情很好。
- start: 2463.972
  end: 2468.455
  speaker: barron
  en: No, because they all share the one divine nature.
  zh: 不，因为他们都共享一个神性。
- start: 2468.455
  end: 2471.918
  speaker: barron
  en: The one divinity is shared by all three.
  zh: 一个神性为三者所共享。
- start: 2472.205
  end: 2476.586
  speaker: barron
  en: So, as I said, the Father, Son, and Spirit are all simple.
  zh: 所以，正如我所说，圣父、圣子、圣灵都是单纯的。
- start: 2476.586
  end: 2479.167
  speaker: barron
  en: The Father, Son, and Spirit are all Actus Purus.
  zh: 圣父、圣子、圣灵都是纯粹的现实。
- start: 2479.167
  end: 2482.327
  speaker: barron
  en: The Father, Son, and Spirit are all the creator of the world, right?
  zh: 圣父、圣子、圣灵都是世界的创造者，对吧？
- start: 2482.327
  end: 2490.849
  speaker: barron
  en: So no, they're not three separate personalities; they're subsistent relations within the unity of the divine essence.
  zh: 所以不，他们不是三个独立的个性；他们是在神性本质的合一内的独立关系。
- start: 2492.11
  end: 2496.451
  speaker: barron
  en: Just one more clarification I want to make, and I'll bring this talk to a close.
  zh: 我想再做一个澄清，然后结束这次谈话。
- start: 2497.291
  end: 2506.405
  speaker: barron
  en: The last bit of this article about the Spirit says, He has spoken through the prophets.
  zh: 关于圣灵的这条最后一点说：「他曾借先知说话。」
- start: 2507.387
  end: 2515.654
  speaker: barron
  en: He has spoken through the prophets—prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Zechariah.
  zh: 他曾借先知说话——像以赛亚、耶利米、以西结、但以理、何西阿、撒迦利亚这样的先知。
- start: 2515.654
  end: 2525.763
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, sure, of course, through those Old Testament prophets, the Spirit, the Ruach Yahweh, came upon them, and they spoke from the standpoint of God.
  zh: 是的，当然，借着那些旧约的先知，圣灵，耶和华的灵，临到他们，他们从神的立场说话。
- start: 2527.045
  end: 2531.147
  speaker: barron
  en: Mind you, we're not talking in the Bible about philosophers.
  zh: 请注意，我们在圣经中谈论的不是哲学家。
- start: 2531.147
  end: 2541.498
  speaker: barron
  en: You can tell the difference in a second between the way Isaiah or Jeremiah speaks and the way Plato or Aristotle speaks.
  zh: 你可以立刻分辨出以赛亚或耶利米说话的方式和柏拉图或亚里士多德说话的方式之间的区别。
- start: 2542.24
  end: 2551.191
  speaker: barron
  en: Plato and Aristotle—brilliant men, of course—but they're formulating arguments based on their own observations and intuitions.
  zh: 柏拉图和亚里士多德——当然是杰出的人——但他们是根据自己的观察和直觉提出论证。
- start: 2551.191
  end: 2553.752
  speaker: barron
  en: They make arguments and they come to conclusions.
  zh: 他们提出论证并得出结论。
- start: 2553.752
  end: 2554.213
  speaker: barron
  en: Beautiful!
  zh: 美妙！
- start: 2554.213
  end: 2555.733
  speaker: barron
  en: It's called philosophy.
  zh: 这叫哲学。
- start: 2555.754
  end: 2560.637
  speaker: barron
  en: But you never get that impression, do you, when you're reading the prophets of the Old Testament?
  zh: 但当你读旧约的先知时，你从来没有这样的印象，对吗？
- start: 2561.218
  end: 2569.723
  speaker: barron
  en: As though they're sharing their own reflections with you, as though they're offering their own arguments?
  zh: 好像他们在与你分享自己的反思，好像他们在提供自己的论证？
- start: 2569.804
  end: 2570.644
  speaker: barron
  en: No, no!
  zh: 不，不！
- start: 2571.185
  end: 2573.466
  speaker: barron
  en: The word of the Lord came to me.
  zh: 耶和华的话临到我。
- start: 2573.863
  end: 2579.245
  speaker: barron
  en: The Lord chose me, and then, Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, says the Lord.
  zh: 主拣选了我，然后，「我未将你造在腹中，我已晓得你。」这是耶和华说的。
- start: 2579.886
  end: 2581.226
  speaker: barron
  en: Thus saith the Lord.
  zh: 耶和华如此说。
- start: 2581.226
  end: 2583.027
  speaker: barron
  en: That's how a prophet speaks.
  zh: 这就是先知说话的方式。
- start: 2583.027
  end: 2587.469
  speaker: barron
  en: In other words, he's not coming up out of his own experience, out of his own reflection.
  zh: 换句话说，他不是从自己的经验，从自己的反思中说话。
- start: 2587.469
  end: 2589.53
  speaker: barron
  en: He's not offering you philosophy.
  zh: 他不是在提供哲学。
- start: 2591.131
  end: 2604.017
  speaker: barron
  en: He's someone rather who feels the feelings of God, who thinks the thoughts of God, who sees the world from the standpoint of God.
  zh: 他是一个感受神的感受，思想神的思想，从神的立场看世界的人。
- start: 2604.281
  end: 2609.123
  speaker: barron
  en: I always like this from Yves Congar, the great 20th-century Catholic philosopher.
  zh: 我一直喜欢二十世纪伟大的公教会哲学家伊夫·孔加尔的这句话。
- start: 2609.143
  end: 2614.404
  speaker: barron
  en: He said, The prophet is someone who speaks God's judgment on things.
  zh: 他说，先知是宣讲神对事物的判断的人。
- start: 2614.665
  end: 2617.986
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, it doesn't mean simply that he's condemning things.
  zh: 这并不只是说他在谴责事物。
- start: 2618.566
  end: 2626.068
  speaker: barron
  en: To speak God's judgment means he sees the world and speaks about it from the standpoint of God.
  zh: 宣讲神的判断意味着他从神的立场看世界并谈论它。
- start: 2627.049
  end: 2639.906
  speaker: barron
  en: Gosh, think of all the voices you hear in the public space—from politicians, business leaders, and the formers of culture, etc. Yeah, they're seeing the world from a particular vantage point.
  zh: 天哪，想想你在公共空间听到的所有声音——来自政治家、商业领袖和文化塑造者等。是的，他们从特定的视角看世界。
- start: 2641.528
  end: 2645.31
  speaker: barron
  en: And you can recognize, though, when someone is speaking as a prophet.
  zh: 但你可以辨认出，当有人以先知的身份说话时。
- start: 2646.371
  end: 2652.474
  speaker: barron
  en: They're speaking about the same world, but not from the standpoint of power, politics, or cultural formation.
  zh: 他们谈论同一个世界，但不是从权力、政治或文化形成的立场。
- start: 2652.474
  end: 2656.156
  speaker: barron
  en: They're speaking about the world from the standpoint of God.
  zh: 他们从神的立场谈论世界。
- start: 2657.818
  end: 2660.519
  speaker: barron
  en: That means they've been seized by the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 这意味着他们被圣灵抓住。
- start: 2661.454
  end: 2665.036
  speaker: barron
  en: He spoke through Ezekiel and Isaiah and Jeremiah.
  zh: 他曾借以西结、以赛亚和耶利米说话。
- start: 2665.397
  end: 2670.3
  speaker: barron
  en: He continues to speak in great prophetic figures in the life of the Church today.
  zh: 他继续在今天教会生活中的伟大先知人物中说话。
- start: 2670.3
  end: 2681.667
  speaker: barron
  en: 'I''ll end with this: there''s an interesting tension, and it''s kind of built into the life of the Church, between what I call prophecy and institution.'
  zh: 我以此结束：在我称之为预言和制度之间，有一种有趣的张力，这种张力有点内置于教会的生活中。
- start: 2682.588
  end: 2687.991
  speaker: barron
  en: So a prophet speaks, and it's recognized as the truth of God.
  zh: 所以先知说话，被认作是神的真理。
- start: 2688.61
  end: 2694.776
  speaker: barron
  en: Then, often on the basis of that prophetic witness, an institutional structure emerges.
  zh: 然后，常常在那先知见证的基础上，出现一个制度结构。
- start: 2694.776
  end: 2698.999
  speaker: barron
  en: This is true in Old Testament times and certainly true in the age of the Church.
  zh: 这在旧约时代是真实的，在教会时代当然也是真实的。
- start: 2699.22
  end: 2705.205
  speaker: barron
  en: Out of the prophecy, for example, of Paul come the churches and their original structures.
  zh: 例如，从保罗的预言中产生了教会及其原始结构。
- start: 2706.806
  end: 2713.232
  speaker: barron
  en: Institutions, though, tend to get a little too staid, maybe a little too ossified.
  zh: 然而，制度往往变得有点过于呆板，也许有点过于僵化。
- start: 2714.54
  end: 2722.025
  speaker: barron
  en: They don't respond to what's the needful thing, and so new prophets emerge—people that are seized by the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 它们没有回应所需的事物，所以新的先知出现了——被圣灵抓住的人。
- start: 2722.085
  end: 2726.127
  speaker: barron
  en: They sense something and they challenge perhaps the institution.
  zh: 他们感受到某些东西，也许挑战制度。
- start: 2726.848
  end: 2739.236
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, it might take some time, but then that prophetic word, if it's a true one, eventually becomes absorbed into the life of the Church and part of its institutional structure.
  zh: 好吧，这可能需要一些时间，但如果那预言是真实的，最终会被吸收到教会的生活中，成为其制度结构的一部分。
- start: 2739.377
  end: 2747.514
  speaker: barron
  en: We shouldn't be shocked by this or chagrined by it; it's just natural in the life of the Church—the play of institution and prophecy.
  zh: 我们不应该对此感到震惊或懊恼；这在教会的生活中是很自然的——制度和预言的互动。
- start: 2747.974
  end: 2751.216
  speaker: barron
  en: 'I''ll give you an example: the Church Fathers loved this.'
  zh: 我给你一个例子：教父们喜欢这个。
- start: 2751.216
  end: 2761.102
  speaker: barron
  en: So on Easter Sunday morning, when Peter and John get the word of the resurrection, they didn't know what to make of it, and they begin running to the tomb.
  zh: 在复活节的早晨，当彼得和约翰得到复活的消息时，他们不知道该怎么想，就开始跑向坟墓。
- start: 2762.303
  end: 2765.464
  speaker: barron
  en: But John's younger, so he runs faster and gets there first.
  zh: 但约翰年轻，所以他跑得更快，先到了那里。
- start: 2765.585
  end: 2766.705
  speaker: barron
  en: But then he waits.
  zh: 但他等着。
- start: 2767.438
  end: 2769.358
  speaker: barron
  en: He waits for Peter to catch up.
  zh: 他等着彼得赶上来。
- start: 2769.358
  end: 2774.12
  speaker: barron
  en: Then Peter comes, and he's the one who verifies the resurrection.
  zh: 然后彼得来了，是他证实了复活。
- start: 2775.28
  end: 2780.921
  speaker: barron
  en: The Church Fathers saw that as a beautiful symbol of the play between prophecy and institution.
  zh: 教父们把这看作是预言和制度之间互动的美丽象征。
- start: 2781.161
  end: 2784.882
  speaker: barron
  en: John, the mystic, the prophet, sprinted ahead.
  zh: 约翰，神秘主义者、先知，冲在前面。
- start: 2784.882
  end: 2787.863
  speaker: barron
  en: He got it; he intuited it; he got there first.
  zh: 他明白了；他直觉到了；他先到了那里。
- start: 2788.243
  end: 2796.625
  speaker: barron
  en: But then he had the good grace to wait, and it's Peter who moved more slowly—that's the way institutions tend to go.
  zh: 但他有良好的恩典去等待，是彼得走得更慢——这就是制度的倾向。
- start: 2796.914
  end: 2803.839
  speaker: barron
  en: But it was Peter who ratified the truth of the resurrection and who becomes, by the way, its great spokesperson.
  zh: 但正是彼得确认了复活的真理，并且顺便说一下，成为其伟大的代言人。
- start: 2804.92
  end: 2821.231
  speaker: barron
  en: 'So it goes in the life of the Church: both prophecy and institution, both under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the Parakletos, whose task is to guide us into all truth.'
  zh: 在教会的生活中也是如此：预言和制度都在圣灵、保惠师的感动下，其任务是引导我们明白一切的真理。
- start: 2822.613
  end: 2826.335
  speaker: a
  en: Bishop, in the Church we talk about being filled with the Holy Spirit, right?
  zh: 主教，在教会里我们谈论被圣灵充满，对吧？
- start: 2826.394
  end: 2830.736
  speaker: a
  en: And when you get confirmed, the Holy Spirit comes down upon you in a very special way.
  zh: 当你坚振时，圣灵以一种非常特殊的方式降临在你身上。
- start: 2830.736
  end: 2834.897
  speaker: a
  en: But we don't always feel filled with the Holy Spirit in our daily lives.
  zh: 但在日常生活中，我们并不总是感到被圣灵充满。
- start: 2835.197
  end: 2836.117
  speaker: a
  en: Why is that the case?
  zh: 为什么会这样？
- start: 2836.117
  end: 2840.138
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, well, I would distinguish between the feeling and the fact.
  zh: 是的，我会区分感觉和事实。
- start: 2840.259
  end: 2844.98
  speaker: barron
  en: To be filled with the Holy Spirit fundamentally means to be filled with love.
  zh: 被圣灵充满根本上意味着被爱充满。
- start: 2845.14
  end: 2849.522
  speaker: barron
  en: That's what the Holy Spirit is—the love between the Father and the Son, the love that God is.
  zh: 那就是圣灵——圣父与圣子之间的爱，神就是爱。
- start: 2849.582
  end: 2853.423
  speaker: barron
  en: So to have the Holy Spirit in you means you're a person who wills the good of the other.
  zh: 所以有圣灵在你里面意味着你是一个愿意他人益处的人。
- start: 2853.573
  end: 2859.436
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the importance of Paul saying, Look, I've got faith to move mountains, but have not love, I'm nothing.
  zh: 这就是保罗说：「我若有全备的信心，叫我能够移山，却没有爱，我就算不得什么」的重要性。
- start: 2859.436
  end: 2864.479
  speaker: barron
  en: I speak in the tongues of angels, but have not love, I'm a clanging gong.
  zh: 「我若能说万人的方言，并天使的话语，却没有爱，我就成了鸣的锣，响的钹一般」。
- start: 2864.719
  end: 2871.063
  speaker: barron
  en: So fundamentally, it always means I have love in my heart; that's why I'm filled with the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 所以从根本上说，这总是意味着我心中有爱；这就是为什么我被圣灵充满。
- start: 2871.063
  end: 2886.724
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, that could be accompanied by a lot of positive feelings, and a lot of the saints talk about when they're entering into their relationship with God, they are filled with kind of the thrill of it, and they're optimistic and upbeat.
  zh: 现在，这可能伴随着许多积极的感觉，许多圣徒谈到当他们进入与神的关系时，他们充满了那种兴奋，他们乐观而积极。
- start: 2886.845
  end: 2897.774
  speaker: barron
  en: But then a lot of the saints witness to the fact that at a certain point, God seems to take that away—not the love, that's the essence of it—but the feeling that accompanies it.
  zh: 但许多圣徒见证说，在某个时刻，神似乎把那感觉拿走了——不是爱，那是本质——而是伴随的感觉。
- start: 2897.774
  end: 2906.361
  speaker: barron
  en: 'I''ll give you a really good example: Mother Teresa of Calcutta, who begins her great devotion to the poor having heard the voice of Jesus.'
  zh: 我给你一个很好的例子：加尔各答的德兰修女，她在听到耶稣的声音后开始她对穷人的伟大奉献。
- start: 2906.361
  end: 2911.602
  speaker: barron
  en: She says literally having heard it, and she says, Yes, I'll serve the poorest of the poor.
  zh: 她说她确实听到了，她说：「是的，我要服侍最贫穷的人」。
- start: 2911.602
  end: 2914.402
  speaker: barron
  en: Now talk about someone whose heart was filled with love!
  zh: 现在说到一个心中充满爱的人的时候！
- start: 2914.722
  end: 2922.504
  speaker: barron
  en: But she lost the feeling part of it very early on, and what she felt was the absence of God.
  zh: 但她很早就失去了那感觉，她感受到的是神的缺席。
- start: 2923.004
  end: 2927.024
  speaker: barron
  en: What she felt was often desolation in her emotional life.
  zh: 她感受到的常常是情感生活中的荒凉。
- start: 2927.204
  end: 2933.028
  speaker: barron
  en: But all her life long, she had the love of God like crazy—that's the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 但她一生都疯狂地拥有神的爱——那就是圣灵。
- start: 2933.408
  end: 2939.27
  speaker: barron
  en: Why does God allow us sometimes to feel the uplift of it, and other times takes it away?
  zh: 为什么神有时让我们感受到那提升，有时又拿走它？
- start: 2939.93
  end: 2951.952
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, one answer that someone like John of the Cross, the great mystical master, gives is that God wants us to fall in love with Him, not with the good feelings associated with Him.
  zh: 好吧，像十字架圣若望这样伟大的密契大师给出的一个答案是，神要我们爱他，而不是爱与他相关的美好感觉。
- start: 2952.593
  end: 2963.6
  speaker: barron
  en: So if you say, Hey, I love going to church, and I love doing religious things because it really makes me feel good, well, that's great, and that might be the way God is drawing you into His life.
  zh: 所以如果你说：「嘿，我喜欢去教会，我喜欢做宗教的事，因为这让我感觉很好」，那很好，那可能是神吸引你进入他生命的方式。
- start: 2963.702
  end: 2970.753
  speaker: barron
  en: But at a certain point, He might remove that from you because you're not meant to fall in love with the feeling; you're meant to fall in love with Him.
  zh: 但在某个时刻，他可能会把那感觉从你身上拿走，因为你不是要爱上那感觉；你是要爱上他。
