- start: 2.052
  end: 10.723
  speaker: barron
  en: I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ.
  zh: 我信独一的主，耶稣基督。
- start: 10.723
  end: 14.744
  speaker: barron
  en: With these words of the Creed, we come to the heart of the matter.
  zh: 随着信经的这些话语，我们来到核心所在。
- start: 20.466
  end: 41.811
  speaker: barron
  en: 'For all of distinctively Christian faith begins and ends with a particular person: Yeshua from Nazareth, the only begotten Son of the God of Israel, light for light, true God from true God.'
  zh: 因为所有独特的基督信仰都始于并终于一个特定的人：拿撒勒人耶稣，以色列神的独生子，光从光出，真神从真神出。
- start: 44.033
  end: 60.404
  speaker: barron
  en: This proclamation, no less shocking nearly 2,000 years later, draws us into the depths of divine love and into the mystery of the incarnation.
  zh: 这宣告，即使在近两千年后仍然令人震惊，将我们引入神爱之深渊和道成肉身的奥秘。
- start: 69.235
  end: 77.058
  speaker: barron
  en: So, we've been looking at the opening moves of the Nicene Creed, talking about God and about God's creation.
  zh: 我们一直在看尼西亚信经的开篇，谈论神和神的创造。
- start: 77.439
  end: 86.322
  speaker: barron
  en: 'We now come to this decisively important article: I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ.'
  zh: 现在我们来到这决定性的重要条款：我信独一的主，耶稣基督。
- start: 86.663
  end: 92.525
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, I think especially for religious people, those words can kind of slide quickly through our minds.
  zh: 我想，尤其对宗教人士来说，这些话可能会很快从我们脑中滑过。
- start: 92.525
  end: 93.646
  speaker: barron
  en: The Lord Jesus Christ.
  zh: 主耶稣基督。
- start: 93.646
  end: 94.886
  speaker: barron
  en: Oh yeah, I know all about Him.
  zh: 哦，是的，我对祂很了解。
- start: 94.886
  end: 101.007
  speaker: barron
  en: I think it might be good to defamiliarize ourselves a bit and take that phrase apart.
  zh: 我想，我们不妨稍微陌生化一下，拆解这句话。
- start: 101.007
  end: 107.37
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Let''s look at those four words: One Lord, Jesus Christ.'
  zh: 让我们来看这四个词：独一的主，耶稣基督。
- start: 107.37
  end: 111.753
  speaker: barron
  en: Starting with the name Jesus.
  zh: 从耶稣这个名字开始。
- start: 112.493
  end: 116.115
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, Jesus translates the Greek "Iesous."
  zh: 耶稣这个名字翻译自希腊文「Iesous」。
- start: 116.135
  end: 118.296
  speaker: barron
  en: That's a word that Paul uses all the time.
  zh: 这是保罗常用的词。
- start: 118.617
  end: 125.0
  speaker: barron
  en: And Jesus renders the Hebrew Yeshua or Yehoshua.
  zh: 耶稣对应希伯来文的耶书亚或约书亚。
- start: 125.52
  end: 128.642
  speaker: barron
  en: The word Joshua, the name Joshua, it's the same thing.
  zh: 约书亚这个名字，就是同一个。
- start: 129.048
  end: 135.133
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeshua means Yahweh, God, saves.
  zh: 耶书亚的意思是耶和华，神，拯救。
- start: 136.634
  end: 141.819
  speaker: barron
  en: This Jesus whom we profess our faith in is the Savior.
  zh: 我们所信的这位耶稣就是救主。
- start: 141.819
  end: 144.761
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, salvation is a metaphor, really.
  zh: 其实，救恩是个比喻。
- start: 146.082
  end: 148.444
  speaker: barron
  en: Salus in Latin means health.
  zh: 拉丁文的「salus」意为健康。
- start: 149.125
  end: 153.068
  speaker: barron
  en: The Salvator, that's the bearer of health.
  zh: 「Salvator」就是健康的带来者。
- start: 153.068
  end: 155.45
  speaker: barron
  en: Our word Savior comes from that.
  zh: 我们的「救主」一词就源于此。
- start: 157.154
  end: 166.578
  speaker: barron
  en: Jesus, therefore, is the one who's going to bring to a sin-sick world the divine healing.
  zh: 因此，耶稣要将神的医治带给罪恶缠身的世界。
- start: 167.719
  end: 168.66
  speaker: barron
  en: He's the Savior.
  zh: 祂是救主。
- start: 168.66
  end: 175.883
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, it's interesting, that word in Latin, salus, and salve, you'd say to someone, say, hello, good health to you, salve.
  zh: 有趣的是，拉丁文的「salus」和「salve」，你对人说「你好，愿你健康」，就是「salve」。
- start: 176.424
  end: 190.483
  speaker: barron
  en: The closest cousin in English would be the word salve, S-A-L-V-E. The Salvator, the Savior, Yeshua, is the one who brings the healing balm.
  zh: 英语中最接近的词是「salve」，S-A-L-V-E。救主耶稣，就是带来医治膏药的那位。
- start: 191.445
  end: 205.596
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, something else, and no first-century Israelite would have missed this, that name Yeshua, Yeshua, Joshua, calls to mind the Old Testament Joshua, the second in command of Moses.
  zh: 还有一点，任何一世纪的以色列人都不会忽视，耶书亚这个名字让人想起旧约中的约书亚，摩西的副手。
- start: 205.596
  end: 209.278
  speaker: barron
  en: Moses doesn't enter the Promised Land, but Joshua does.
  zh: 摩西没有进入应许之地，但约书亚进入了。
- start: 209.319
  end: 214.182
  speaker: barron
  en: He leads the Israelite people in the conquest of the Promised Land.
  zh: 他带领以色列人征服了应许之地。
- start: 214.182
  end: 218.304
  speaker: barron
  en: Joshua is a warrior against the enemies of Israel.
  zh: 约书亚是对抗以色列敌人的战士。
- start: 219.045
  end: 228.05
  speaker: barron
  en: And so this Yeshua, this Joshua in whom we profess our faith, will also be a warrior.
  zh: 所以我们所信的这位耶书亚，这位约书亚，也将是战士。
- start: 229.249
  end: 232.75
  speaker: barron
  en: Though, mind you, not in the manner of the Old Testament Joshua.
  zh: 但请注意，不是以旧约约书亚的方式。
- start: 232.75
  end: 238.131
  speaker: barron
  en: He's going to fight in a very distinctive way, and I'll get there in a few minutes.
  zh: 祂将以非常独特的方式战斗，我稍后会讲到。
- start: 240.071
  end: 241.131
  speaker: barron
  en: Jesus.
  zh: 耶稣。
- start: 242.732
  end: 246.072
  speaker: barron
  en: The next word, Christ.
  zh: 下一个词，基督。
- start: 247.893
  end: 248.933
  speaker: barron
  en: Christ.
  zh: 基督。
- start: 249.513
  end: 257.535
  speaker: barron
  en: That English word translates to the Greek "Christos," which translates to Hebrew "Mashiach."
  zh: 这个英文词翻译自希腊文「Christos」，对应希伯来文「Mashiach」。
- start: 258.427
  end: 260.587
  speaker: barron
  en: So, Messiah comes from that.
  zh: 弥赛亚就源于此。
- start: 261.088
  end: 264.928
  speaker: barron
  en: The Mashiach is the anointed one.
  zh: 「Mashiach」是受膏者。
- start: 266.629
  end: 276.591
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, in the Old Testament, both priests and kings were anointed, but the Mashiach par excellence was King David.
  zh: 在旧约中，祭司和君王都受膏，但最卓越的受膏者是大卫王。
- start: 276.591
  end: 288.534
  speaker: barron
  en: King David who united the tribes, expanded the great empire, and who also, mind you, acted as a kind of priest because he brings the Ark of the Covenant into the holy city of Jerusalem.
  zh: 大卫王统一了各支派，扩展了大帝国，并且，他也以某种祭司的身份行事，因为他将约柜带入圣城耶路撒冷。
- start: 290.154
  end: 292.714
  speaker: barron
  en: The Mashiach, David.
  zh: 受膏者大卫。
- start: 293.875
  end: 301.596
  speaker: barron
  en: But it became very clear in the Old Testament that though David was a great figure, he was also a fallen, compromised figure.
  zh: 但在旧约中很明显，虽然大卫是个伟大的人物，他也是一个堕落、妥协的人。
- start: 302.116
  end: 307.057
  speaker: barron
  en: He also didn't fully realize the purposes of kingship and priesthood.
  zh: 他也没有完全实现君王和祭司的目的。
- start: 307.577
  end: 328.196
  speaker: barron
  en: And so ancient Israel, you can see it in the prophets and the Psalms especially, begins to long for a definitive David, a definitive Mashiach, anointed one, who would fulfill the destiny of the people of Israel.
  zh: 因此，古代以色列，尤其在先知书和诗篇中，开始渴望一个最终的大卫，一个最终的受膏者，能实现以色列民的命运。
- start: 329.977
  end: 345.622
  speaker: barron
  en: 'What''s being claimed here in the title given to Yeshua, Yeshua Mashiach, is that he is this Davidic figure: warrior, king, priest.'
  zh: 这里给耶稣的称号，耶稣基督，宣告祂就是这位大卫的形象：战士、君王、祭司。
- start: 347.395
  end: 349.976
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, let's go back to the beginning of that phrase.
  zh: 现在，让我们回到这句话的开头。
- start: 349.976
  end: 355.257
  speaker: barron
  en: We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ.
  zh: 我们信独一的主，耶稣基督。
- start: 357.658
  end: 361.579
  speaker: barron
  en: Lord, in English, translates "kurios" in Greek.
  zh: 主，这个英文词翻译自希腊文「kurios」。
- start: 361.579
  end: 363.839
  speaker: barron
  en: You hear that all the time in Paul, don't you?
  zh: 你在保罗书信中常听到这个词，不是吗？
- start: 363.839
  end: 366.84
  speaker: barron
  en: Jesus kurios, Jesus the Lord.
  zh: 耶稣kurios，耶稣主。
- start: 367.0
  end: 370.861
  speaker: barron
  en: '"Kurios" translates "Adonai" in the Hebrew.'
  zh: 「kurios」对应希伯来文的「Adonai」。
- start: 370.861
  end: 375.222
  speaker: barron
  en: Adonai was the word used for God.
  zh: Adonai是用来指神的词。
- start: 377.105
  end: 381.249
  speaker: barron
  en: Are we putting our faith in a human figure, this Yeshua Mashiach?
  zh: 我们是将信心放在一个人身上，这位耶稣基督吗？
- start: 381.249
  end: 385.612
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, yes, in a way, this long-expected new David.
  zh: 是的，从某种意义上说，是这位期待已久的新大卫。
- start: 385.792
  end: 393.238
  speaker: barron
  en: But we're also acknowledging that this new David is more than a merely human figure.
  zh: 但我们也承认这位新大卫不仅仅是一个人。
- start: 394.62
  end: 397.522
  speaker: barron
  en: He's also Adonai.
  zh: 祂也是Adonai。
- start: 398.223
  end: 401.666
  speaker: barron
  en: He's also the one Lord.
  zh: 祂也是独一的主。
- start: 402.186
  end: 404.308
  speaker: barron
  en: Here's a very curious thing, everybody.
  zh: 大家，这里有件很奇妙的事。
- start: 404.48
  end: 417.723
  speaker: barron
  en: If you look now throughout the Old Testament, you do indeed see these texts about the new David, the longing for this Davidic warrior, this Davidic king who will come and definitively achieve David's purposes.
  zh: 如果你通读旧约，确实会看到关于新大卫的经文，渴望这位大卫的战士，这位大卫的君王来最终实现大卫的目的。
- start: 417.783
  end: 425.945
  speaker: barron
  en: But you also find texts that clearly say that God, the God of Israel, is going to come to rescue his people.
  zh: 但你也会发现经文明确说，以色列的神要亲自来拯救祂的子民。
- start: 425.945
  end: 428.606
  speaker: barron
  en: I myself will shepherd my people.
  zh: 我要亲自牧养我的子民。
- start: 428.606
  end: 434.227
  speaker: barron
  en: And then there are even texts that read those two things together.
  zh: 还有经文将这两者结合在一起。
- start: 435.891
  end: 449.994
  speaker: barron
  en: But somehow the Davidic king will also be Yahweh himself, saving, rescuing, shepherding his people.
  zh: 大卫的君王将以某种方式也是耶和华自己，拯救、救赎、牧养祂的子民。
- start: 450.594
  end: 459.535
  speaker: barron
  en: 'See, I think all of that is contained in this little line: I believe in the one Lord, Jesus Christ.'
  zh: 我认为这一切都包含在这短短的一句：我信独一的主，耶稣基督。
- start: 459.776
  end: 467.059
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, maybe again, just to defamiliarize it, we believe in the one Adonai, Yeshua Mashiach.
  zh: 也许，为了陌生化一下，我们信独一的Adonai，耶稣基督。
- start: 468.441
  end: 473.686
  speaker: barron
  en: In some ways, the whole of the Old Testament expectation is contained in that line.
  zh: 在某种程度上，整个旧约的期盼都包含在这句话中。
- start: 474.067
  end: 480.334
  speaker: barron
  en: Bishop, it can seem to some that there's a big difference between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament.
  zh: 主教，有些人可能觉得旧约的神和新约的神有很大区别。
- start: 480.865
  end: 482.306
  speaker: barron
  en: Is this the same God?
  zh: 这是同一位神吗？
- start: 482.527
  end: 486.513
  speaker: barron
  en: Yes, and I would certainly deny the claim that they're two different gods.
  zh: 是的，我当然否认他们是两个不同的神。
- start: 486.513
  end: 493.302
  speaker: barron
  en: I think what you find in Jesus, as Paul called him, the icon of the invisible God, well, the God that Paul knew was the God of the Old Testament.
  zh: 我认为你在耶稣身上看到的，正如保罗所称的，那位看不见之神的像，保罗所认识的神就是旧约的神。
- start: 493.302
  end: 495.764
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the God that shaped his mind and heart.
  zh: 那位神塑造了他的思想和心灵。
- start: 495.945
  end: 503.271
  speaker: barron
  en: What he saw in Jesus, what the first Christians saw, was he was the icon, the sort of visible representation of that God.
  zh: 他在耶稣身上看到的，初代基督徒看到的，是祂是那位神的像，那位神的可见代表。
- start: 503.271
  end: 509.176
  speaker: barron
  en: So is the God of the Old Testament a God of love and mercy, compassion, care for the marginalized?
  zh: 那么，旧约的神是充满爱和怜悯、慈悲、关心边缘人的神吗？
- start: 509.176
  end: 511.838
  speaker: barron
  en: Yes, and you see all that in Jesus.
  zh: 是的，你在耶稣身上看到这一切。
- start: 511.939
  end: 518.004
  speaker: barron
  en: Is he also a God of anger and judgment and calling us to righteousness and naming our sin?
  zh: 祂也是一位愤怒和审判的神，呼召我们行义，指出我们的罪吗？
- start: 518.004
  end: 520.766
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, sure, and you see the same thing in Jesus.
  zh: 是的，你在耶稣身上也看到同样的。
- start: 520.906
  end: 525.108
  speaker: barron
  en: Is he a God who is willing to suffer and give himself for his people?
  zh: 祂是一位愿意为子民受苦、舍己的神吗？
- start: 525.108
  end: 526.509
  speaker: barron
  en: Yes, in the Old Testament.
  zh: 是的，在旧约中。
- start: 526.509
  end: 528.97
  speaker: barron
  en: And then you see it par excellence in Jesus.
  zh: 然后你在耶稣身上卓越地看到这一点。
- start: 528.97
  end: 531.411
  speaker: barron
  en: So I would say he's not a different God.
  zh: 所以我会说，祂不是不同的神。
- start: 531.411
  end: 538.774
  speaker: barron
  en: He's the icon of the invisible God, Jesus, as it were, channeling all the different dimensions of the God of Israel.
  zh: 祂是那看不见之神的像，耶稣，可以说，汇聚了以色列神的各个层面。
- start: 541.015
  end: 544.496
  speaker: barron
  en: Now the creed goes on, specifying.
  zh: 现在信经继续，作出具体说明。
- start: 545.617
  end: 549.799
  speaker: barron
  en: He's the only begotten Son of God.
  zh: 祂是神的独生子。
- start: 550.74
  end: 553.122
  speaker: barron
  en: He's the only begotten Son of God.
  zh: 祂是神的独生子。
- start: 553.122
  end: 560.686
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, I'll get to begotten in a minute, the details on that, but I want to stay just for the moment with the phrase, the Son of God.
  zh: 我稍后会讲「独生」的细节，但我想先停留在「神的儿子」这个词上。
- start: 562.007
  end: 567.37
  speaker: barron
  en: Are people throughout the Bible referred to as sons and children of God?
  zh: 圣经中是否有人被称为神的儿子和子女？
- start: 567.611
  end: 570.432
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, you can find it both Old Testament and New.
  zh: 是的，旧约和新约都有。
- start: 571.113
  end: 574.575
  speaker: barron
  en: Those with whom God has a very special familial relationship.
  zh: 那些与神有特殊家庭关系的人。
- start: 574.895
  end: 588.546
  speaker: barron
  en: Moreover, are there lots of figures, think from Abraham and Jacob and Moses and Joshua and Samuel and David and Solomon, who are sent by God on mission, chosen and sent?
  zh: 此外，有许多人物，如亚伯拉罕、雅各、摩西、约书亚、撒母耳、大卫和所罗门，被神拣选并差遣执行使命吗？
- start: 588.627
  end: 590.208
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, sure, of course.
  zh: 是的，当然有。
- start: 591.429
  end: 603.826
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, this Yeshua Mashiach is indeed described as the Son of God, and especially in the Gospel of John, he's described as the one who's been sent by his father.
  zh: 这位耶稣基督确实被描述为神的儿子，尤其在约翰福音中，祂被描述为父所差来的。
- start: 603.867
  end: 606.787
  speaker: barron
  en: And you say, well, okay, so far so ordinary.
  zh: 你可能会说，到目前为止，这很普通。
- start: 607.368
  end: 609.948
  speaker: barron
  en: He's like those figures I just mentioned.
  zh: 祂就像我刚才提到的那些人物。
- start: 609.948
  end: 613.129
  speaker: barron
  en: He's like one of the great heroes of the Old Testament.
  zh: 祂就像旧约中的一位伟大英雄。
- start: 614.55
  end: 628.354
  speaker: barron
  en: But then we see, as we look more closely at these texts of the New Testament, that something qualitatively different is going on in regard to this Yeshua Mashiach.
  zh: 但当我们更仔细地看新约的这些经文时，发现这位耶稣基督有质的不同。
- start: 628.829
  end: 632.811
  speaker: barron
  en: He's not Son of God in just that ordinary generic sense.
  zh: 祂不是以普通意义上的神的儿子。
- start: 632.811
  end: 635.652
  speaker: barron
  en: He's not just one more figure being sent.
  zh: 祂不仅仅是又一个被差遣的人物。
- start: 635.652
  end: 646.835
  speaker: barron
  en: But rather, this Yeshua speaks and acts in the very person of God.
  zh: 而是这位耶稣以神的身份说话行事。
- start: 649.337
  end: 650.857
  speaker: barron
  en: Let me give you some examples.
  zh: 让我给你一些例子。
- start: 652.958
  end: 665.455
  speaker: barron
  en: When Jesus says to the paralyzed man, "My son, your sins are forgiven," well, right away the people react as you'd expect.
  zh: 当耶稣对瘫子说：「小子，你的罪赦了」，人们立刻如你所料地反应。
- start: 665.476
  end: 667.196
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, who does this man think he is?
  zh: 这个人以为自己是谁？
- start: 667.356
  end: 669.397
  speaker: barron
  en: Only God can forgive sins.
  zh: 只有神能赦罪。
- start: 671.077
  end: 671.777
  speaker: barron
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吧？
- start: 671.798
  end: 673.058
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the point.
  zh: 这就是重点。
- start: 673.798
  end: 683.101
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Jesus there is doing something that no other figure in the history of Israel would dare to do: to speak and act in the very person of God.'
  zh: 耶稣在那里做了以色列历史上没有人敢做的事：以神的身份说话行事。
- start: 684.682
  end: 685.682
  speaker: barron
  en: How about this?
  zh: 再看这个例子。
- start: 686.374
  end: 697.022
  speaker: barron
  en: In the Sermon on the Mount, when Jesus almost blithely says, "Well, you've heard it said, but I say."
  zh: 在登山宝训中，耶稣几乎轻松地说：「你们听见有话说，只是我告诉你们。」
- start: 697.523
  end: 699.885
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, he's referring to the Torah.
  zh: 祂指的是律法。
- start: 699.885
  end: 708.052
  speaker: barron
  en: You've heard it said in the Torah, meaning the court of ultimate appeal for a pious Jew.
  zh: 你们听见律法上有话说，对虔诚的犹太人来说，这是最终的权威。
- start: 709.068
  end: 711.609
  speaker: barron
  en: The Torah was given by God to Moses.
  zh: 律法是神赐给摩西的。
- start: 711.609
  end: 713.909
  speaker: barron
  en: The Torah was the supreme authority.
  zh: 律法是最高权威。
- start: 714.049
  end: 725.632
  speaker: barron
  en: If you were a rabbi, you'd say, well, I was taught by my teacher who was taught by his teacher and by his teacher back and back and back until we get to the Torah that was given to Moses by God.
  zh: 如果你是拉比，你会说，我的老师教导我，他的老师教导他，一直追溯到神赐给摩西的律法。
- start: 725.632
  end: 727.632
  speaker: barron
  en: It was the supreme authority.
  zh: 那是最高权威。
- start: 728.733
  end: 738.815
  speaker: barron
  en: Therefore, to say, well, you've heard it said there, but I say, well, that's to claim a divine authority.
  zh: 因此，说「你们听见有话说，只是我告诉你们」，就是宣称神的权威。
- start: 739.75
  end: 747.752
  speaker: barron
  en: Isn't it remarkable, too, in the Gospels we often hear the people in wonderment saying, well, this one speaks with authority.
  zh: 在福音书中，我们常听到人们惊讶地说，这人说话有权柄，这不是很显著吗？
- start: 748.193
  end: 749.593
  speaker: barron
  en: That's what they're saying.
  zh: 这就是他们所说的。
- start: 749.593
  end: 752.954
  speaker: barron
  en: He doesn't sound like one of our rabbis, one of our teachers.
  zh: 祂不像我们的拉比或教师。
- start: 753.294
  end: 756.995
  speaker: barron
  en: He speaks with the very authority of God.
  zh: 祂说话带着神的权柄。
- start: 758.196
  end: 759.336
  speaker: barron
  en: How about this?
  zh: 再看这个例子。
- start: 759.956
  end: 768.399
  speaker: barron
  en: Unless you love me more than your mother and father, more than your very life, you're not worthy of me.
  zh: 你若不爱我胜过爱你的父母，胜过爱自己的生命，就不配作我的门徒。
- start: 769.48
  end: 776.525
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, I mean, you could maybe imagine a prophet or a religious teacher saying, unless you love God more than your very life.
  zh: 你或许能想象一位先知或宗教教师说，你若不爱神胜过自己的生命。
- start: 777.346
  end: 785.091
  speaker: barron
  en: But we couldn't imagine a prophet or a religious teacher or founder saying, unless you love me more than your very life, you're not worthy of me.
  zh: 但我们无法想象一位先知或宗教教师或创始人说，你若不爱我胜过自己的生命，就不配作我的门徒。
- start: 785.091
  end: 787.012
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, who do you think you are?
  zh: 你以为你是谁？
- start: 788.914
  end: 790.635
  speaker: barron
  en: The implication, again, is very clear.
  zh: 这含义再次非常明确。
- start: 790.635
  end: 799.261
  speaker: barron
  en: Jesus presents himself, not as one teacher among many, but as the very truth itself.
  zh: 耶稣将自己呈现为，不是众多教师之一，而是真理本身。
- start: 800.166
  end: 814.613
  speaker: barron
  en: Indeed, doesn't he say in John's Gospel, "I am the way, the truth, and the life"? Of course, you can see in the Gospel of John those wonderful "ego eimi" statements.
  zh: 的确，祂在约翰福音中不是说过「我就是道路、真理、生命」吗？当然，你在约翰福音中看到那些奇妙的「ego eimi」宣告。
- start: 814.613
  end: 816.374
  speaker: barron
  en: '"Ego eimi" is Greek for "I am."'
  zh: 「ego eimi」是希腊文的「我是」。
- start: 816.374
  end: 820.216
  speaker: barron
  en: I am the bread of life.
  zh: 我是生命的粮。
- start: 820.476
  end: 822.698
  speaker: barron
  en: I am the good shepherd.
  zh: 我是好牧人。
- start: 822.698
  end: 825.479
  speaker: barron
  en: I am the resurrection and the life.
  zh: 我是复活和生命。
- start: 825.879
  end: 835.243
  speaker: barron
  en: I am the gate, etc. Remember that scene in John when they come to arrest him in the Garden of Gethsemane and they say, we're looking for Jesus of Nazareth.
  zh: 我是羊的门，等等。记得约翰福音中那幕，他们在客西马尼园来捉拿祂，说，我们找拿撒勒人耶稣。
- start: 835.243
  end: 841.248
  speaker: barron
  en: And in most of our translations, it says something like, I'm the one or I'm he.
  zh: 在大多数译本中，祂说的是「我就是」或「是我」。
- start: 841.528
  end: 848.854
  speaker: barron
  en: What he says magisterially at that moment is, "ego eimi," I am.
  zh: 祂庄严地说的是「ego eimi」，「我是」。
- start: 848.854
  end: 854.898
  speaker: barron
  en: And then, of course, everyone in John's rendering of that story, everyone falls to the ground in worship.
  zh: 然后，在约翰的叙述中，众人都退后倒在地上。
- start: 855.439
  end: 858.041
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, see, no one in the first century would have missed this.
  zh: 你看，一世纪的人没有人会忽视这一点。
- start: 858.468
  end: 863.952
  speaker: barron
  en: '"Ego eimi," "ego eimi," calls to mind what I mentioned in the last lecture.'
  zh: 「ego eimi」，「ego eimi」，让人想起我在上次讲座中提到的。
- start: 864.273
  end: 868.436
  speaker: barron
  en: When Moses asked God his name, when the people say, well, what's your name?
  zh: 当摩西问神的名时，当百姓说，你叫什么名字？
- start: 868.436
  end: 869.877
  speaker: barron
  en: What will I tell them?
  zh: 我要告诉他们什么？
- start: 871.599
  end: 873.82
  speaker: barron
  en: I am who I am.
  zh: 神说，我是自有永有的。
- start: 875.882
  end: 879.225
  speaker: barron
  en: '"Ego eimi haon" is what the Greek would have said.'
  zh: 希腊文会说「ego eimi haon」。
- start: 880.946
  end: 893.625
  speaker: barron
  en: 'And then, of course, in the prologue to John''s Gospel, we find this explicit statement: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.'
  zh: 当然，在约翰福音的序言中，我们找到这明确的声明：太初有道，道与神同在，道就是神。
- start: 894.486
  end: 902.468
  speaker: barron
  en: And that Word became flesh and dwelt among us, the only begotten Son of God.
  zh: 道成了肉身，住在我们中间，充充满满地有恩典有真理。
- start: 902.468
  end: 905.328
  speaker: barron
  en: Yes, not one among many.
  zh: 是的，不是众多中的一个。
- start: 905.489
  end: 909.61
  speaker: barron
  en: Not like the other ones that we might call in a casual sense the Son of God.
  zh: 不像我们随意称为神的儿子的其他人。
- start: 910.25
  end: 918.759
  speaker: barron
  en: But Jesus, who is human, He is this Davidic warrior and Savior, is also "ego eimi."
  zh: 而是耶稣，祂是人，祂是这位大卫的战士和救主，也是「ego eimi」。
- start: 920.899
  end: 923.56
  speaker: barron
  en: He's also divine.
  zh: 祂也是神。
- start: 926.441
  end: 931.742
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, the creed continues, specifying this great insight.
  zh: 现在，信经继续，阐明这个伟大的见解。
- start: 931.742
  end: 942.565
  speaker: barron
  en: 'The insight, everybody, around which Christianity revolves: if we stop affirming the divinity of Jesus, then Christianity has collapsed.'
  zh: 各位，这个见解是基督教的核心：如果我们不再确认耶稣的神性，基督教就崩溃了。
- start: 943.306
  end: 949.846
  speaker: barron
  en: So, listen as the creed goes on, describing this only begotten Son of God.
  zh: 所以，听信经继续描述这位神的独生子。
- start: 949.846
  end: 951.507
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 951.507
  end: 953.148
  speaker: barron
  en: To unpack this famous statement.
  zh: 来解开这著名的声明。
- start: 953.148
  end: 957.27
  speaker: barron
  en: Again, you know, Catholics recite this every single Sunday.
  zh: 你知道，天主教徒每个主日都诵读这信经。
- start: 976.738
  end: 987.305
  speaker: barron
  en: And I wonder how many Catholics really avert to the importance of these words and why the church insists that we say them every Sunday over and again.
  zh: 我想知道有多少天主教徒真正意识到这些话的重要性，以及教会为何坚持我们每个主日反复诵读。
- start: 987.366
  end: 990.067
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, to get this, we have to go back now.
  zh: 要明白这一点，我们必须回顾一下。
- start: 990.488
  end: 998.913
  speaker: barron
  en: I've referred a couple of times to this creed as the Nicene Creed, meaning it comes out of the Council of Nicaea.
  zh: 我多次提到这信经为尼西亚信经，意思是它出自尼西亚会议。
- start: 1000.034
  end: 1013.848
  speaker: barron
  en: This first great ecumenical council of the church took place in the year 325 A.D. Nicaea is a little town near what was called Constantinople in those days, now Istanbul.
  zh: 教会的第一次大公会议于公元325年举行，尼西亚是靠近当时称为君士坦丁堡的小镇，现在的伊斯坦布尔。
- start: 1016.35
  end: 1019.831
  speaker: barron
  en: The Council of Nicaea was summoned by the Emperor Constantine.
  zh: 尼西亚会议是由君士坦丁皇帝召开的。
- start: 1020.392
  end: 1030.138
  speaker: barron
  en: It was bothering Constantine that the very Christianity which he wanted to use to unite his empire was falling into bickering.
  zh: 君士坦丁感到困扰的是，他想用来统一帝国的基督教陷入了争吵。
- start: 1030.799
  end: 1031.639
  speaker: barron
  en: How come?
  zh: 为什么呢？
- start: 1031.639
  end: 1032.519
  speaker: barron
  en: How come?
  zh: 为什么呢？
- start: 1033.12
  end: 1040.126
  speaker: barron
  en: Because of a priest from Alexandria in Egypt, named Arius.
  zh: 因为一位来自埃及亚历山大的祭司，名叫亚略。
- start: 1042.148
  end: 1044.049
  speaker: barron
  en: What was Arius' argument?
  zh: 亚略的主张是什么？
- start: 1044.049
  end: 1057.139
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, like a lot of people around this time, he was trying to figure out how do we make sense of the claims, clear enough in the Gospels, that Jesus is human, but in some sense divine?
  zh: 和当时许多人一样，他试图理解福音书中明确的宣称：耶稣是人，但在某种意义上也是神。
- start: 1057.42
  end: 1061.603
  speaker: barron
  en: There were a lot of very smart people in those centuries trying to make sense of this.
  zh: 那些世纪里有许多聪明的人试图理解这一点。
- start: 1061.96
  end: 1074.069
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, Arius, who was by all accounts a very handsome, charismatic figure, in fact, a singer and a writer of songs, and he would express his theology, they say, in popular songs.
  zh: 亚略，据说是个非常英俊、有魅力的人物，实际上是个歌手和歌曲作者，据说他用流行歌曲表达他的神学。
- start: 1074.85
  end: 1091.663
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Well, Arius'' theory roughly is this: what becomes incarnate in Jesus, this Logos that John talks about, well, isn''t God per se, but rather the Logos is the highest creature of God.'
  zh: 亚略的理论大致是这样的：在耶稣里成肉身的，这约翰所说的道，并不是神本身，而是神最高的受造物。
- start: 1092.208
  end: 1098.811
  speaker: barron
  en: The Logos is a very high spiritual creature, reflective of the glory of God, to be sure, but not God.
  zh: 道是一个非常高的灵性受造物，确实反映了神的荣耀，但不是神。
- start: 1099.692
  end: 1117.16
  speaker: barron
  en: This very high creature now becomes incarnate in a kind of incomplete human nature, and the Logos completes it by giving it mind, will, and freedom, etc. So that Jesus becomes a kind of hybrid of quasi-divinity, quasi-humanity.
  zh: 这个非常高的受造物现在成为一种不完整的人性，道通过赋予心智、意志和自由等来完成它。这样，耶稣成为一种准神性、准人性的混合体。
- start: 1117.662
  end: 1123.867
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, I know that it can all sound rather arcane, but keep in mind, it was attractive to people for a lot of reasons.
  zh: 我知道这听起来有些晦涩，但请记住，它因多种原因吸引了人们。
- start: 1124.534
  end: 1128.455
  speaker: barron
  en: First of all, it preserved the simplicity and unity of God.
  zh: 首先，它维护了神的单纯和合一。
- start: 1128.455
  end: 1135.837
  speaker: barron
  en: Remember everything I said in the last lecture about God being simple and actus purus and absolute?
  zh: 记得我在上次讲座中所说的神的单纯、纯粹行动和绝对性吗？
- start: 1136.297
  end: 1138.157
  speaker: barron
  en: It was bothering some people.
  zh: 这让一些人感到困扰。
- start: 1138.158
  end: 1145.739
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, to talk about Father, Son, the Logos is God, and how doesn't that compromise God's unity, etc.?
  zh: 谈到父、子、道是神，这难道不会损害神的合一吗？
- start: 1145.739
  end: 1149.12
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, Arius cleared that up.
  zh: 亚略解决了这个问题。
- start: 1149.12
  end: 1151.901
  speaker: barron
  en: There's God, and then there's this high creature, the Logos.
  zh: 有神，然后有这个高等受造物，道。
- start: 1152.677
  end: 1157.741
  speaker: barron
  en: Moreover, at the same time, he appealed to people with a mythological imagination.
  zh: 此外，他还吸引了那些有神话想象力的人。
- start: 1157.901
  end: 1166.268
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of ancient peoples that knew stories about Achilles and Hercules and figures that were kind of quasi-divine, quasi-human.
  zh: 想想古代人们知道的关于阿喀琉斯和赫拉克勒斯的故事，那些准神性、准人性的人物。
- start: 1166.268
  end: 1168.569
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, that sounds like what Jesus was.
  zh: 这听起来像耶稣。
- start: 1169.25
  end: 1174.334
  speaker: barron
  en: So you can see why, at that time and place, the Arian theory was attractive.
  zh: 所以你可以理解为什么在那个时间和地点，亚略的理论很有吸引力。
- start: 1175.135
  end: 1187.641
  speaker: barron
  en: As I say, he propagated it first in his hometown of Alexandria, and then it began to spread around the eastern Mediterranean, backed up by his popular preaching and indeed his songs.
  zh: 正如我所说，他首先在家乡亚历山大传播，然后在他的流行讲道和歌曲支持下，开始在地中海东部传播。
- start: 1188.301
  end: 1192.123
  speaker: barron
  en: It reached a point, though, where the Christian church was deeply divided over it.
  zh: 但它发展到一个地步，基督教会因此深深分裂。
- start: 1192.883
  end: 1199.406
  speaker: barron
  en: Many Christians felt, no, Arius is compromising the true divinity of Jesus.
  zh: 许多基督徒认为，不，亚略在妥协耶稣的真正神性。
- start: 1199.406
  end: 1203.468
  speaker: barron
  en: He's denying that Jesus really is God among us.
  zh: 他否认耶稣真的是神在我们中间。
- start: 1204.065
  end: 1211.389
  speaker: barron
  en: And so this great debate ensued, which then came to the attention, as I say, of Constantine, who said, we've got to work this thing out.
  zh: 于是，这场大辩论随之而来，引起了君士坦丁的注意，他说，我们必须解决这个问题。
- start: 1211.389
  end: 1218.414
  speaker: barron
  en: And so he calls the Council of Nicaea, attended, they speculate, by about 300 bishops.
  zh: 于是他召集尼西亚会议，据推测约有300位主教参加。
- start: 1218.414
  end: 1220.174
  speaker: barron
  en: So a lot of bishops were there.
  zh: 所以有很多主教在那里。
- start: 1221.155
  end: 1227.859
  speaker: barron
  en: And they debated this question carefully, and they say with some rancor.
  zh: 他们仔细辩论这个问题，据说有些激烈。
- start: 1228.496
  end: 1238.132
  speaker: barron
  en: There's a wonderful story, by the way, that St. Nicholas, who stands behind our stories about Santa Claus or Santa Nicklaus, was there.
  zh: 顺便说一句，有个美妙的故事，说圣尼古拉，就是我们关于圣诞老人的故事背后的那位，也在那里。
- start: 1238.253
  end: 1245.196
  speaker: barron
  en: And indeed, Nicholas was a bishop in Asia Minor, so not that far from Nicaea, and the dates are right.
  zh: 尼古拉确实是小亚细亚的一位主教，所以离尼西亚不远，时间也对得上。
- start: 1245.196
  end: 1250.139
  speaker: barron
  en: He's from the late 3rd, and he dies around the middle of the 4th century, so he could have been there.
  zh: 他生于三世纪末，卒于四世纪中叶，所以他可能在那里。
- start: 1250.139
  end: 1256.642
  speaker: barron
  en: But I love the story that St. Nicholas was at Nicaea, and listening to Arius, who was indeed there.
  zh: 但我喜欢这个故事，说圣尼古拉在尼西亚，听亚略发言，亚略确实在那里。
- start: 1256.642
  end: 1260.824
  speaker: barron
  en: Arius was present at the council, and Arius is laying out his position.
  zh: 亚略出席了会议，正在陈述他的立场。
- start: 1261.005
  end: 1268.343
  speaker: barron
  en: And they say that Nicholas just got madder and madder, until finally he walked across the council floor and slugged him.
  zh: 据说尼古拉越来越生气，直到最后走过会议厅，打了他一拳。
- start: 1269.323
  end: 1270.584
  speaker: barron
  en: A lot of people liked the image.
  zh: 很多人喜欢这个形象。
- start: 1270.584
  end: 1272.465
  speaker: barron
  en: That's probably a legend, you know.
  zh: 这可能是个传说。
- start: 1272.465
  end: 1277.907
  speaker: barron
  en: But it should be true that Santa Claus slugged Arius during the Council of Nicaea.
  zh: 但圣诞老人打了亚略，这应该是真的。
- start: 1277.907
  end: 1284.11
  speaker: barron
  en: But what I like about that story, whether it's true or not, is it does express the rancor and the debate.
  zh: 但我喜欢这个故事，无论真假，因为它确实表达了激烈的争论。
- start: 1284.25
  end: 1292.034
  speaker: barron
  en: See, they knew something, everybody, and I want you to know it, that something absolutely decisive was at stake at this council.
  zh: 你看，他们知道一些事情，各位，我希望你们知道，这次会议关系到绝对关键的事情。
- start: 1293.391
  end: 1299.392
  speaker: barron
  en: If Jesus is not divine, he's a very, very, very high creature, becomes incarnate in him.
  zh: 如果耶稣不是神性，祂只是一个非常非常高的受造物，在祂里面成了肉身。
- start: 1299.452
  end: 1302.112
  speaker: barron
  en: But then the whole thing unravels.
  zh: 但这样一来，一切都崩溃了。
- start: 1303.053
  end: 1310.854
  speaker: barron
  en: And so, the Council of Fathers of Nicaea finally decide that Arius is wrong.
  zh: 因此，尼西亚会议的诸位父老最终决定亚略是错的。
- start: 1312.694
  end: 1325.266
  speaker: barron
  en: That the Logos that becomes incarnate in Jesus, listen, is God from God, light from light, true God from true God.
  zh: 那在耶稣里成肉身的道，听着，是神的神，光的光，真神的真神。
- start: 1325.266
  end: 1328.087
  speaker: barron
  en: Those are all anti-Aryan statements.
  zh: 这些都是反对亚略主义的声明。
- start: 1328.828
  end: 1329.849
  speaker: barron
  en: Nicholas is slugging them.
  zh: 尼古拉在打击他们。
- start: 1329.849
  end: 1332.551
  speaker: barron
  en: It's like, one, two, three.
  zh: 就像一、二、三。
- start: 1332.552
  end: 1336.195
  speaker: barron
  en: He's God from God, light from light, true God from true God.
  zh: 祂是神的神，光的光，真神的真神。
- start: 1336.195
  end: 1337.395
  speaker: barron
  en: Don't forget it.
  zh: 不要忘记。
- start: 1338.436
  end: 1345.642
  speaker: barron
  en: 'How wonderful, too, how that begins: born of the Father before all ages.'
  zh: 多么美妙啊，那开头是：在万世以前为父所生。
- start: 1346.463
  end: 1357.295
  speaker: barron
  en: One of Arius' little one-liners was, in regard to the Logos, he said, "There was a time when he was not."
  zh: 亚略的一句口号是，关于道，他说：「有一个时候他不存在。」
- start: 1357.675
  end: 1358.896
  speaker: barron
  en: You see what he meant?
  zh: 你明白他的意思吗？
- start: 1359.196
  end: 1361.076
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, no, he's a creature.
  zh: 就是说，他是受造物。
- start: 1361.096
  end: 1361.977
  speaker: barron
  en: God is God.
  zh: 神是神。
- start: 1361.977
  end: 1363.877
  speaker: barron
  en: There's never a time when he is not, right?
  zh: 祂从来没有不存在的时候，对吧？
- start: 1363.877
  end: 1364.838
  speaker: barron
  en: He's eternal.
  zh: 祂是永恒的。
- start: 1364.838
  end: 1368.019
  speaker: barron
  en: But the Logos, even he's great, he's great.
  zh: 但道，即使他伟大，他伟大。
- start: 1368.019
  end: 1370.219
  speaker: barron
  en: But there was a time when he was not.
  zh: 但有一个时候他不存在。
- start: 1370.219
  end: 1371.88
  speaker: barron
  en: He's not fully divine.
  zh: 他不是完全的神。
- start: 1373.1
  end: 1374.1
  speaker: barron
  en: Oh, yeah?
  zh: 哦，是吗？
- start: 1374.221
  end: 1375.521
  speaker: barron
  en: Says Nicaea.
  zh: 尼西亚说。
- start: 1375.821
  end: 1378.882
  speaker: barron
  en: Born of the Father before all ages.
  zh: 在万世以前为父所生。
- start: 1378.882
  end: 1382.003
  speaker: barron
  en: In other words, there was no time when he was not, Arius.
  zh: 换句话说，亚略，没有一个时候他不存在。
- start: 1382.555
  end: 1389.458
  speaker: barron
  en: One, two, three, four times it says no, no, no, no to Arianism.
  zh: 一、二、三、四次对亚略主义说不，不，不，不。
- start: 1390.098
  end: 1393.24
  speaker: barron
  en: See, and everybody, that's why we repeat this every Sunday.
  zh: 你看，各位，这就是我们每个主日重复这信经的原因。
- start: 1393.24
  end: 1394.4
  speaker: barron
  en: How wonderful.
  zh: 多么美妙。
- start: 1394.4
  end: 1399.682
  speaker: barron
  en: This debate from 325 A.D., a long time ago.
  zh: 这场辩论始于公元325年，很久以前。
- start: 1399.702
  end: 1403.404
  speaker: barron
  en: But the church recognized then as now.
  zh: 但教会当时和现在都认识到。
- start: 1403.604
  end: 1408.384
  speaker: barron
  en: It's the standing or falling point of Christianity.
  zh: 这是基督教存亡的关键。
- start: 1408.944
  end: 1416.83
  speaker: barron
  en: Bishop, Christians make claims about Jesus as the Messiah of Israel that Jews do not accept.
  zh: 主教，基督徒关于耶稣是以色列的弥赛亚的宣称，犹太人不接受。
- start: 1417.09
  end: 1419.752
  speaker: barron
  en: How do Christians make sense of their objections?
  zh: 基督徒如何理解他们的反对？
- start: 1419.752
  end: 1421.714
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, and the objections are reasonable ones.
  zh: 是的，这些反对是有理的。
- start: 1421.714
  end: 1426.217
  speaker: barron
  en: I've been in dialogue with Jews over the years, and I like when that question comes up.
  zh: 多年来我一直与犹太人对话，我喜欢这个问题出现。
- start: 1426.217
  end: 1428.699
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, we don't skirt the great question.
  zh: 我们不回避这个重大问题。
- start: 1428.699
  end: 1432.241
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, we claim he's the Messiah of Israel; you claim he's not.
  zh: 我们宣称祂是以色列的弥赛亚；你们说祂不是。
- start: 1432.241
  end: 1435.982
  speaker: barron
  en: And the argument is that the promises have not come true.
  zh: 他们的论点是应许尚未实现。
- start: 1435.982
  end: 1449.545
  speaker: barron
  en: So in the messianic age, you hear in the Old Testament that there will be righteousness and justice and God's ways will cover the earth the way the water covers the sea, etc. And they say, look, it hasn't happened.
  zh: 在弥赛亚时代，你在旧约中听到将有公义和正直，神的道要充满全地，如同水充满海洋。他们说，看，这还没有发生。
- start: 1449.605
  end: 1454.826
  speaker: barron
  en: So say what you want about Jesus; he's not the Messiah as the Old Testament envisioned him.
  zh: 所以你们怎么说耶稣都行；祂不是旧约所预见的弥赛亚。
- start: 1455.026
  end: 1457.146
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, our answer is something like this.
  zh: 我们的回答是这样的。
- start: 1457.226
  end: 1460.547
  speaker: barron
  en: It's under the rubric of the already and not yet.
  zh: 这是在「已经」和「尚未」的范畴下。
- start: 1461.184
  end: 1469.168
  speaker: barron
  en: With Paul, we'd say, no, all the promises to Israel have come true precisely in the resurrection of Jesus from the dead.
  zh: 我们会和保罗一起说，不，给以色列的所有应许都在耶稣从死里复活中实现了。
- start: 1469.188
  end: 1478.012
  speaker: barron
  en: So in that great act, you see manifested God's intention, God's purpose, etc. Now, the not yet...
  zh: 所以在那伟大的行动中，你看到神的意图、神的目的等的显明。现在，尚未……
- start: 1478.732
  end: 1480.093
  speaker: barron
  en: that's the age of the church.
  zh: 那就是教会的时代。
- start: 1480.093
  end: 1490.88
  speaker: barron
  en: So now, under the lordship of Jesus, we are, as a church, making the world more and more in conformity with the divine will, etc. So that's our way of responding to it.
  zh: 所以现在，在耶稣的主权下，我们作为教会，使世界越来越符合神的旨意等。这是我们回应的方式。
- start: 1490.88
  end: 1493.562
  speaker: barron
  en: Yes, I know, in a way, where do you see it?
  zh: 是的，我知道，从某种意义上说，你在哪里看到呢？
- start: 1493.842
  end: 1498.725
  speaker: barron
  en: But that's the job of the church, is to instantiate what the resurrection means.
  zh: 但这就是教会的职责，就是体现复活的意义。
- start: 1499.827
  end: 1509.591
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Now, the next phrase, and we''ve already heard this word, but I promise I get to it, and here we go: begotten, not made.'
  zh: 现在，下一个词组，我们已经听过这个词，但我答应过要讲，现在就来：受生而非受造。
- start: 1509.591
  end: 1513.133
  speaker: barron
  en: So we're describing the Logos that becomes incarnate in Jesus.
  zh: 我们在描述那在耶稣里成肉身的道。
- start: 1513.133
  end: 1514.913
  speaker: barron
  en: God from God, light from light.
  zh: 神的神，光的光。
- start: 1514.913
  end: 1518.175
  speaker: barron
  en: And we say he's begotten, not made.
  zh: 我们说祂是受生而非受造。
- start: 1518.535
  end: 1526.618
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, now, to explicate this, I want to tell you about another very important figure who was present at the Council of Nicaea.
  zh: 现在，为了解释这一点，我想告诉你们另一个在尼西亚会议上非常重要的人物。
- start: 1527.319
  end: 1530.881
  speaker: barron
  en: There was a bishop from Alexandria, of course, Arius' town.
  zh: 有一位来自亚历山大的主教，当然，那是亚略的城市。
- start: 1530.881
  end: 1534.582
  speaker: barron
  en: He had the poetic name Alexander of Alexandria.
  zh: 他有个诗意的名字，亚历山大的亚历山大。
- start: 1534.662
  end: 1536.483
  speaker: barron
  en: He was there in the debates.
  zh: 他参与了辩论。
- start: 1536.724
  end: 1542.028
  speaker: barron
  en: And with him was a young man called in Greek, Athanasios.
  zh: 和他在一起的有个年轻人，希腊文名叫亚他拿修。
- start: 1542.669
  end: 1544.71
  speaker: barron
  en: It means, by the way, deathless.
  zh: 顺便说一下，这名字的意思是不死。
- start: 1544.71
  end: 1546.212
  speaker: barron
  en: '"Thanatos" means death.'
  zh: 「Thanatos」意为死亡。
- start: 1546.212
  end: 1548.634
  speaker: barron
  en: So Athanasios is the one that never dies.
  zh: 所以亚他拿修就是那永不死的。
- start: 1548.634
  end: 1550.735
  speaker: barron
  en: It's appropriate.
  zh: 这很贴切。
- start: 1550.735
  end: 1554.358
  speaker: barron
  en: There's something really deathless about what this man accomplished.
  zh: 这人所成就的确实有不朽之处。
- start: 1554.358
  end: 1556.039
  speaker: barron
  en: At Nicaea, he was a deacon.
  zh: 在尼西亚，他是个执事。
- start: 1556.039
  end: 1559.762
  speaker: barron
  en: He was a young assistant to Alexander of Alexandria.
  zh: 他是亚历山大的亚历山大的年轻助手。
- start: 1559.882
  end: 1564.586
  speaker: barron
  en: But he listened very carefully to the debates at Nicaea.
  zh: 但他非常仔细地听了尼西亚的辩论。
- start: 1566.323
  end: 1572.326
  speaker: barron
  en: Soon after the council, Alexander died, and this young Athanasios becomes the bishop.
  zh: 会议后不久，亚历山大去世，这位年轻的亚他拿修成为主教。
- start: 1573.226
  end: 1584.391
  speaker: barron
  en: We know him now as Saint Athanasius, because with tremendous tenacity, he dedicated the rest of his life to a defense of Nicaea.
  zh: 我们现在称他为圣亚他拿修，因为他以极大的坚韧，将余生奉献于捍卫尼西亚。
- start: 1584.391
  end: 1589.653
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, mind you, Arius and Arianism did not go away right after the council.
  zh: 请注意，亚略和亚略主义并没有在会议后立即消失。
- start: 1589.653
  end: 1593.435
  speaker: barron
  en: They were denounced, but the Arian heresy endured.
  zh: 他们被谴责，但亚略异端仍然存在。
- start: 1593.675
  end: 1595.476
  speaker: barron
  en: Athanasius stood...
  zh: 亚他拿修站立……
- start: 1596.007
  end: 1599.769
  speaker: barron
  en: The famous phrase often used of him, "contra mundum."
  zh: 常用来形容他的名言是「contra mundum」。
- start: 1599.969
  end: 1604.891
  speaker: barron
  en: He stood against the world, battling for the truth of Nicaea.
  zh: 他与世界对抗，为尼西亚的真理而战。
- start: 1605.372
  end: 1607.553
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, he writes these wonderful texts.
  zh: 他写下了这些奇妙的著作。
- start: 1607.553
  end: 1612.035
  speaker: barron
  en: We know them now as the Orations Against the Arians.
  zh: 我们现在称之为《反亚略论》。
- start: 1612.755
  end: 1615.836
  speaker: barron
  en: And in these texts, he lays out the teaching of Nicaea.
  zh: 在这些著作中，他阐述了尼西亚的教义。
- start: 1615.957
  end: 1623.0
  speaker: barron
  en: One clarification he makes is that between begetting and making.
  zh: 他所作的一项澄清是关于受生和受造之间的区别。
- start: 1623.54
  end: 1625.041
  speaker: barron
  en: It's very simple, but here it is.
  zh: 这很简单，但就是这样。
- start: 1626.46
  end: 1632.841
  speaker: barron
  en: Both what is begotten and what is made come forth from another.
  zh: 受生的和受造的都来自另一个。
- start: 1633.642
  end: 1637.103
  speaker: barron
  en: So the whole universe has been made, right?
  zh: 所以整个宇宙都是被造的，对吧？
- start: 1637.103
  end: 1638.523
  speaker: barron
  en: I talked about it in the last lecture.
  zh: 我在上次讲座中谈过。
- start: 1638.523
  end: 1644.044
  speaker: barron
  en: So everything from the planet Jupiter to archangels to everything in this room, we've all been made.
  zh: 所以从木星到天使长到这个房间里的所有东西，我们都是被造的。
- start: 1644.144
  end: 1650.406
  speaker: barron
  en: That means we come forth from the sheer act of being itself, who is the creator God, right?
  zh: 这意味着我们来自存在本身的纯粹行动，就是创造的神，对吧？
- start: 1650.406
  end: 1651.306
  speaker: barron
  en: We're made.
  zh: 我们是被造的。
- start: 1653.905
  end: 1659.088
  speaker: barron
  en: What is begotten, Athanasius clarifies, also comes forth from another.
  zh: 亚他拿修澄清说，受生的也来自另一个。
- start: 1659.468
  end: 1664.691
  speaker: barron
  en: So the Logos, the Son, comes forth from the Father.
  zh: 所以道，圣子，来自圣父。
- start: 1665.532
  end: 1667.753
  speaker: barron
  en: However, here's the decisive difference.
  zh: 然而，这里有一个决定性的区别。
- start: 1668.894
  end: 1680.287
  speaker: barron
  en: What is made only reflects that from which it comes and does not share perfectly in the being of that from which it comes.
  zh: 受造的只反映其来源，并不完全分享其来源的本体。
- start: 1680.287
  end: 1681.868
  speaker: barron
  en: So, I'm a creature.
  zh: 所以，我是受造物。
- start: 1681.868
  end: 1682.648
  speaker: barron
  en: I've been made.
  zh: 我是被造的。
- start: 1682.648
  end: 1688.112
  speaker: barron
  en: That means I'm reflective in some way of God's goodness and perfection.
  zh: 这意味着我在某种程度上反映了神的良善和完美。
- start: 1688.392
  end: 1695.237
  speaker: barron
  en: I participate in it, we say, just as everything else in the world participates in the Creator.
  zh: 我们说，我参与其中，就像世界上的一切都参与创造主一样。
- start: 1695.497
  end: 1697.158
  speaker: barron
  en: But I'm not the Creator.
  zh: 但我不是创造主。
- start: 1697.158
  end: 1699.68
  speaker: barron
  en: I don't share perfectly in His being.
  zh: 我不完全分享祂的本体。
- start: 1700.701
  end: 1712.835
  speaker: barron
  en: But what is begotten, Athanasius clarifies, does fully and perfectly participate in that from which it comes.
  zh: 但亚他拿修澄清说，受生的完全而完美地参与其来源。
- start: 1716.257
  end: 1723.56
  speaker: barron
  en: God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made.
  zh: 神的神，光的光，真神的真神，受生而非受造。
- start: 1724.34
  end: 1727.902
  speaker: barron
  en: Upon that distinction, Christianity rises or falls.
  zh: 基督教的兴衰就取决于这个区别。
- start: 1728.442
  end: 1733.044
  speaker: barron
  en: If Jesus is one more creature among many, even the highest creature, well then, who cares?
  zh: 如果耶稣只是众多受造物中的一个，即使是最高的受造物，那又有什么关系呢？
- start: 1734.312
  end: 1737.773
  speaker: barron
  en: But what's in him has been begotten, not made.
  zh: 但在祂里面的是受生而非受造。
- start: 1738.274
  end: 1748.799
  speaker: barron
  en: And then, kind of as a crescendo in a symphony, comes this word coined at the Council of Nicaea.
  zh: 然后，像交响乐的渐强一样，出现了尼西亚会议创造的这个词。
- start: 1748.799
  end: 1755.922
  speaker: barron
  en: 'It''s not a biblical word, not even common in the philosophical tradition: begotten, not made.'
  zh: 这不是圣经中的词，甚至在哲学传统中也不常见：受生而非受造。
- start: 1755.922
  end: 1760.824
  speaker: barron
  en: And then it says, "homoousios," with the Father.
  zh: 然后说，与父同体。
- start: 1761.645
  end: 1765.871
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, in Greek, "ousia" means substance, being.
  zh: 在希腊文中，「ousia」意为本质、存在。
- start: 1766.212
  end: 1767.993
  speaker: barron
  en: '"Homo" means the same.'
  zh: 「homo」意为相同。
- start: 1769.694
  end: 1771.855
  speaker: barron
  en: '"Homoousios" with the Father.'
  zh: 与父同体。
- start: 1771.855
  end: 1776.178
  speaker: barron
  en: We used to say in the older translation, one in being with the Father.
  zh: 我们以前的译文说，与父同体。
- start: 1776.599
  end: 1777.339
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay.
  zh: 好的。
- start: 1777.899
  end: 1782.402
  speaker: barron
  en: Now we say consubstantial with the Father.
  zh: 现在我们说与父同体。
- start: 1782.402
  end: 1784.604
  speaker: barron
  en: That just renders the Latin more exactly.
  zh: 这只是更准确地翻译了拉丁文。
- start: 1784.604
  end: 1787.085
  speaker: barron
  en: Latin says "consubstantialis."
  zh: 拉丁文说「consubstantialis」。
- start: 1787.586
  end: 1791.468
  speaker: barron
  en: And "consubstantialis" just renders "homoousios" in Greek.
  zh: 「consubstantialis」就是希腊文「homoousios」的翻译。
- start: 1791.852
  end: 1797.216
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm giving you that lesson because that word, everybody, is so important to our faith.
  zh: 我给你们这个解释，因为这个词，各位，对我们的信仰非常重要。
- start: 1797.676
  end: 1812.787
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Why the church insists we say it every week: God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, homoousios with the Father, one in being with the Father.'
  zh: 为什么教会坚持我们每周都要说：神的神，光的光，真神的真神，受生而非受造，与父同体。
- start: 1812.787
  end: 1817.61
  speaker: barron
  en: Therefore, what is operative in Jesus is God.
  zh: 因此，在耶稣里面运行的是神。
- start: 1820.615
  end: 1825.257
  speaker: barron
  en: And upon this insight, our salvation rests.
  zh: 我们的救恩就建立在这个见解上。
- start: 1826.858
  end: 1848.586
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, what I want to do, and I know I'm going to do it very quickly and therefore inadequately, is to help you understand how this is possible or what this even means to say the Logos is other than the Father, right?
  zh: 现在，我想做的是，我知道我会很快地做，因此不够充分，就是帮助你们理解这怎么可能，或者这是什么意思，说道与父不同，对吧？
- start: 1848.586
  end: 1854.027
  speaker: barron
  en: Comes forth from the Father and yet is one in being with the Father.
  zh: 来自父却与父同体。
- start: 1854.027
  end: 1856.849
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm not quite getting how that's possible.
  zh: 我不太明白这怎么可能。
- start: 1857.41
  end: 1859.611
  speaker: barron
  en: It sounds like they're totally the same.
  zh: 听起来他们完全相同。
- start: 1860.712
  end: 1867.217
  speaker: barron
  en: What differentiates the Father and the Logos, but in such a way that the Logos remains divine?
  zh: 是什么区分了父和道，但又使道保持神性？
- start: 1867.778
  end: 1873.702
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, to be honest with you, a lot of really smart people after Nicaea wrestled with the same question.
  zh: 老实说，尼西亚之后，许多聪明的人都在思考同样的问题。
- start: 1874.935
  end: 1881.998
  speaker: barron
  en: Read John Henry Newman's wonderful book, "The Arians of the Fourth Century," to follow these complex debates.
  zh: 读约翰·亨利·纽曼的精彩著作《四世纪的亚略派》，了解这些复杂的辩论。
- start: 1883.259
  end: 1892.323
  speaker: barron
  en: I think a lot of it came to richest expression in the greatest of the Western church fathers, namely St. Augustine of Hippo.
  zh: 我认为许多问题在西方最伟大的教父中得到了最丰富的表达，即希波的奥古斯丁。
- start: 1893.184
  end: 1902.368
  speaker: barron
  en: St. Augustine, wrestling with this very problem, proposes a famous analogy to help us understand these dynamics.
  zh: 圣奥古斯丁在思考这个问题时，提出了一个著名的比喻，帮助我们理解这些动态。
- start: 1903.1
  end: 1907.742
  speaker: barron
  en: The analogy is drawn from our own psychological experience.
  zh: 这个比喻取自我们自身的心理经验。
- start: 1907.862
  end: 1911.343
  speaker: barron
  en: And the warrant for it, the warrant for it is biblical.
  zh: 其依据是圣经的。
- start: 1912.363
  end: 1917.925
  speaker: barron
  en: The Bible says that we human beings have been made in the image and likeness of God, right?
  zh: 圣经说我们人是按神的形象和样式造的，对吧？
- start: 1918.886
  end: 1920.466
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, clearly not in our bodies.
  zh: 显然不是指我们的身体。
- start: 1920.466
  end: 1923.227
  speaker: barron
  en: God is not a physical, material reality.
  zh: 神不是一个物质的存在。
- start: 1923.227
  end: 1924.908
  speaker: barron
  en: We heard that yesterday.
  zh: 我们昨天听到了。
- start: 1926.909
  end: 1930.51
  speaker: barron
  en: So therefore, there's something else in us that's in the image of God.
  zh: 所以我们里面有其他东西是神的形象。
- start: 1932.446
  end: 1935.147
  speaker: barron
  en: It must be our minds, Augustine said.
  zh: 奥古斯丁说，那必定是我们的心灵。
- start: 1936.528
  end: 1939.849
  speaker: barron
  en: But what does he see when he looks within, when he looks at the mind?
  zh: 但当他内观，审视心灵时，他看到了什么？
- start: 1941.891
  end: 1946.433
  speaker: barron
  en: What he calls "mens," M-E-N-S in his Latin.
  zh: 他称之为「mens」，在拉丁文中。
- start: 1946.753
  end: 1953.236
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the elemental source of all of our intellectual energy.
  zh: 那是我们一切智力能量的根本源泉。
- start: 1953.856
  end: 1954.857
  speaker: barron
  en: Mind.
  zh: 心灵。
- start: 1955.417
  end: 1957.218
  speaker: barron
  en: Call it spirit if you want.
  zh: 如果你愿意，可以称之为灵。
- start: 1959.179
  end: 1964.855
  speaker: barron
  en: Mind is able, Augustine says, to form an image of itself.
  zh: 奥古斯丁说，心灵能够形成自身的形象。
- start: 1966.795
  end: 1968.235
  speaker: barron
  en: I know myself.
  zh: 我认识自己。
- start: 1968.235
  end: 1970.496
  speaker: barron
  en: I understand myself.
  zh: 我理解自己。
- start: 1971.256
  end: 1974.117
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, that sounds very abstract, but every day we acknowledge this.
  zh: 这听起来很抽象，但我们每天都承认这一点。
- start: 1974.117
  end: 1977.257
  speaker: barron
  en: We say, well, what was I thinking yesterday?
  zh: 我们会说，我昨天在想什么？
- start: 1977.998
  end: 1980.638
  speaker: barron
  en: I am asking about me.
  zh: 我在询问自己。
- start: 1981.899
  end: 1983.759
  speaker: barron
  en: What was I doing yesterday?
  zh: 我昨天在做什么？
- start: 1983.839
  end: 1988.18
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm posing myself as an object of my own investigation.
  zh: 我将自己作为自我探究的对象。
- start: 1992.114
  end: 1998.357
  speaker: barron
  en: '"Mens" gives rise to what Augustine calls "notitia sui," which means self-knowledge.'
  zh: 「mens」产生了奥古斯丁所称的「notitia sui」，意思是自我认识。
- start: 1999.458
  end: 2002.379
  speaker: barron
  en: The mind sees itself in an image.
  zh: 心灵在一个形象中看见自己。
- start: 2004.761
  end: 2008.843
  speaker: barron
  en: Having seen itself, it now loves.
  zh: 看见自己后，它就爱。
- start: 2010.344
  end: 2015.43
  speaker: barron
  en: '"Amor sui," Augustine called it, self-love.'
  zh: 奥古斯丁称之为「amor sui」，自爱。
- start: 2015.43
  end: 2022.591
  speaker: barron
  en: Though we're capable of this, does anybody think that in that process we've split into two beings or into three beings?
  zh: 虽然我们能做到这一点，但有人认为在这个过程中我们分裂成两个或三个存在吗？
- start: 2022.852
  end: 2027.613
  speaker: barron
  en: No, it's I. I know myself.
  zh: 不，是我。我认识自己。
- start: 2029.553
  end: 2035.994
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, says Augustine, here's the best analogy we have for what Nicaea is talking about.
  zh: 奥古斯丁说，这就是我们对尼西亚所谈论内容的最佳比喻。
- start: 2037.495
  end: 2043.496
  speaker: barron
  en: The "mens," the mind, the fundamental energy of God, call that the Father.
  zh: 「mens」，心灵，神的根本能量，称之为圣父。
- start: 2044.631
  end: 2049.534
  speaker: barron
  en: The Father is able to propose an interior word.
  zh: 圣父能够提出一个内在的道。
- start: 2049.534
  end: 2054.377
  speaker: barron
  en: The Father can form an "imago," an image of Himself, His "notitia sui."
  zh: 圣父能形成一个「imago」，祂自己的形象，祂的「notitia sui」。
- start: 2054.997
  end: 2059.22
  speaker: barron
  en: That interior word, that's the Logos that John talks about.
  zh: 那个内在的道，就是约翰所说的道。
- start: 2059.22
  end: 2060.12
  speaker: barron
  en: Now watch.
  zh: 现在看。
- start: 2060.641
  end: 2064.743
  speaker: barron
  en: God from God, because that image is a perfect image.
  zh: 神的神，因为那形象是完美的形象。
- start: 2064.763
  end: 2067.385
  speaker: barron
  en: Light from light, true God from true God.
  zh: 光的光，真神的真神。
- start: 2067.385
  end: 2070.086
  speaker: barron
  en: There's no diminution, there's no diminishment.
  zh: 没有减少，没有削弱。
- start: 2072.034
  end: 2073.695
  speaker: barron
  en: Begotten, not made.
  zh: 受生而非受造。
- start: 2073.695
  end: 2078.278
  speaker: barron
  en: The image that comes forth from the Father has not been made like a creature.
  zh: 从圣父而来的形象不是像受造物那样被造的。
- start: 2078.379
  end: 2090.667
  speaker: barron
  en: It comes forth from the Father, but in such a way that it participates perfectly and fully in the "usia" or substance of the Father.
  zh: 它来自圣父，但以这样的方式，完美而完全地参与圣父的「usia」或本质。
- start: 2092.25
  end: 2094.492
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, a little bit later I'll talk about the Holy Spirit.
  zh: 稍后我会谈到圣灵。
- start: 2094.492
  end: 2106.182
  speaker: barron
  en: 'But just to make this point about the consubstantiality of the Father and the Son: difference, but not different in being.'
  zh: 但只是为了说明父与子的同体性：有区别，但在本体上没有不同。
- start: 2106.623
  end: 2109.725
  speaker: barron
  en: Not making up two separate realities.
  zh: 不是构成两个独立的实体。
- start: 2110.166
  end: 2113.709
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, that's what's implied in the Council of Nicaea.
  zh: 这就是尼西亚会议所隐含的。
- start: 2113.749
  end: 2126.232
  speaker: barron
  en: And it allows for us to say that what becomes incarnate in Jesus is indeed God from God, light from light, true God from true God.
  zh: 这使我们能够说，在耶稣里成肉身的确实是神的神，光的光，真神的真神。
- start: 2127.953
  end: 2137.498
  speaker: barron
  en: Bishop, all these philosophical distinctions are interesting, but some might wonder what is the relationship between these ideas and the Jesus of the Gospels?
  zh: 主教，所有这些哲学区分很有趣，但有人可能会想，这些观念与福音书中的耶稣有什么关系？
- start: 2138.317
  end: 2149.451
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, you know, in some ways I would question the premise of that because I don't think the Gospels present like the simple carpenter of Nazareth, teacher of timeless moral truth.
  zh: 嗯，从某种意义上说，我会质疑这个前提，因为我不认为福音书呈现的是一个简单的拿撒勒木匠，永恒道德真理的教师。
- start: 2149.452
  end: 2153.676
  speaker: barron
  en: The Gospels are intensely interested in who he is.
  zh: 福音书对祂是谁极为关注。
- start: 2153.977
  end: 2159.28
  speaker: barron
  en: They're intensely interested in showing that he's the incarnation of the God of Israel.
  zh: 他们极为关注地展示祂是以色列神的道成肉身。
- start: 2159.28
  end: 2165.004
  speaker: barron
  en: Therefore, if you want to put it this way, ontological questions, questions about his being, matter.
  zh: 因此，如果你这样说，本体论的问题，关于祂存在的问题，都是重要的。
- start: 2165.004
  end: 2171.527
  speaker: barron
  en: And they mattered from the beginning, which is why the church turned to philosophy very early.
  zh: 这些问题从一开始就很重要，这就是为什么教会很早就转向哲学。
- start: 2171.527
  end: 2173.028
  speaker: barron
  en: Look at Justin the Martyr.
  zh: 看看殉道者游斯丁。
- start: 2173.028
  end: 2174.929
  speaker: barron
  en: We're talking the second century.
  zh: 我们说的是二世纪。
- start: 2174.929
  end: 2176.47
  speaker: barron
  en: Look at Paul himself.
  zh: 看看保罗本人。
- start: 2176.47
  end: 2181.833
  speaker: barron
  en: But then the great councils, you know, come in and they use philosophical language like crazy.
  zh: 然后，你知道，伟大的会议出现了，他们大量使用哲学语言。
- start: 2181.833
  end: 2183.474
  speaker: barron
  en: But that's not surprising.
  zh: 但这并不奇怪。
- start: 2183.474
  end: 2185.316
  speaker: barron
  en: Not a distortion of the gospel.
  zh: 这不是对福音的扭曲。
- start: 2185.316
  end: 2194.063
  speaker: barron
  en: I'd say it rises very naturally out of the implicit ontological interest of the Gospels in who this Jesus is.
  zh: 我会说，这很自然地源于福音书对耶稣是谁的隐含本体论兴趣。
- start: 2194.103
  end: 2195.224
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of Jesus himself.
  zh: 想想耶稣自己。
- start: 2195.224
  end: 2197.726
  speaker: barron
  en: He doesn't say, "Hey, what do the people think about my teaching?
  zh: 祂没有说，「嘿，人们怎么看我的教导？
- start: 2197.726
  end: 2200.369
  speaker: barron
  en: Do the people think I'm a convincing guru?".
  zh: 人们认为我是个有说服力的导师吗？」
- start: 2200.369
  end: 2203.211
  speaker: barron
  en: No, he says, "Who do they say that I am?"
  zh: 不，祂说，「你们说我是谁？」
- start: 2203.591
  end: 2207.415
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the question that preoccupies the gospel writers.
  zh: 这就是福音书作者所关注的问题。
- start: 2207.415
  end: 2209.577
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, I'm not saying one little thing against his teaching.
  zh: 现在，我并不是说祂的教导有什么不好。
- start: 2209.577
  end: 2213.201
  speaker: barron
  en: It's extremely important, mind you, because of who he is.
  zh: 请注意，这极其重要，因为祂是谁。
- start: 2213.201
  end: 2221.489
  speaker: barron
  en: So, if he's one teacher among many, I listen to Sufi mystics, and I listen to Hindu sages, and Jewish rabbis, and I listen to Jesus.
  zh: 所以，如果祂是众多教师之一，我听苏菲神秘主义者，我听印度圣贤，犹太拉比，我听耶稣。
- start: 2221.489
  end: 2224.292
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, okay, okay, they're all kind of, you know...
  zh: 好吧，好吧，他们都算是……
- start: 2224.632
  end: 2225.352
  speaker: barron
  en: interesting.
  zh: 有趣。
- start: 2225.352
  end: 2234.035
  speaker: barron
  en: But the way it works for Christians is because of who he is, the incarnate Son of God, therefore I listen to his teaching, right?
  zh: 但对基督徒来说，正因为祂是谁，神的道成肉身的儿子，所以我听祂的教导，对吧？
- start: 2234.155
  end: 2241.978
  speaker: barron
  en: So I would question the premise that somehow all this highfalutin philosophy is distorting the simple message.
  zh: 所以我会质疑这样的前提：认为这些高深的哲学在扭曲简单的信息。
- start: 2241.978
  end: 2244.698
  speaker: barron
  en: That's just not reading the Gospels right.
  zh: 那是不正确地解读福音书。
- start: 2247.159
  end: 2263.823
  speaker: barron
  en: 'Now, the next article in the Creed, having made these sort of high philosophical clarifications: For us men, and for our salvation, he came down from heaven.'
  zh: 现在，信经中的下一条，在作出这些高深的哲学澄清后：为我们人类，并为我们的得救，从天降临。
- start: 2266.145
  end: 2268.647
  speaker: barron
  en: How existential this becomes.
  zh: 这变得多么关乎存在。
- start: 2268.647
  end: 2273.011
  speaker: barron
  en: What I mean here is, I know we've been kind of flying high in the conceptual order.
  zh: 我的意思是，我知道我们一直在概念层面高飞。
- start: 2274.093
  end: 2278.655
  speaker: barron
  en: But finally, what this is all about, and it's implicit in his name, isn't it?
  zh: 但最终，这一切都是关于什么，这在祂的名字中隐含着，不是吗？
- start: 2278.655
  end: 2281.475
  speaker: barron
  en: What this is all about is our salvation.
  zh: 这一切都是关于我们的救恩。
- start: 2282.616
  end: 2284.476
  speaker: barron
  en: Why did the incarnation take place?
  zh: 为什么要道成肉身？
- start: 2284.877
  end: 2287.017
  speaker: barron
  en: That God might heal us.
  zh: 为要神医治我们。
- start: 2287.638
  end: 2289.178
  speaker: barron
  en: That he might right a wrong.
  zh: 为要祂纠正错误。
- start: 2289.178
  end: 2293.079
  speaker: barron
  en: He might set something right for us and for our salvation.
  zh: 为要祂为我们和我们的救恩纠正一些事情。
- start: 2293.12
  end: 2294.7
  speaker: barron
  en: He came down from heaven.
  zh: 祂从天降临。
- start: 2294.7
  end: 2301.182
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, don't read "down from heaven" literalistically as though God is up in the sky and has to come down physically.
  zh: 现在，不要将「从天降临」字面化地理解为神在天上，必须物理性地降下来。
- start: 2301.182
  end: 2303.283
  speaker: barron
  en: But it's making a very important point.
  zh: 但这指出了一个非常重要的点。
- start: 2304.309
  end: 2311.095
  speaker: barron
  en: The power that comes to us in Jesus does not just rise up from below.
  zh: 在耶稣里临到我们的能力不是从下而上的。
- start: 2311.095
  end: 2315.958
  speaker: barron
  en: It doesn't come from the ordinary run of humanity.
  zh: 它不是来自普通的人类。
- start: 2316.099
  end: 2320.863
  speaker: barron
  en: You say, oh, he's a great teacher, he's a great reformer, he's a great political figure.
  zh: 你可能说，哦，他是个伟大的教师，他是个伟大的改革者，他是个伟大的政治人物。
- start: 2320.863
  end: 2323.785
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, okay, we can benefit from those people.
  zh: 好吧，我们可以从这些人中受益。
- start: 2324.666
  end: 2326.547
  speaker: barron
  en: But they can't save us.
  zh: 但他们不能拯救我们。
- start: 2326.808
  end: 2327.848
  speaker: barron
  en: They can't save us.
  zh: 他们不能拯救我们。
- start: 2327.848
  end: 2327.989
  speaker: barron
  en: Why?
  zh: 为什么？
- start: 2327.989
  end: 2329.99
  speaker: barron
  en: Because they're in the same mess we are.
  zh: 因为他们和我们一样陷在同样的困境中。
- start: 2330.606
  end: 2333.989
  speaker: barron
  en: I don't care how great a teacher you are, how great a political figure you are.
  zh: 我不在乎你是多么伟大的教师，或多么伟大的政治人物。
- start: 2333.989
  end: 2336.011
  speaker: barron
  en: You're as compromised as I am.
  zh: 你和我一样妥协。
- start: 2336.852
  end: 2343.538
  speaker: barron
  en: Rather, our salvation has to come from outside of the dysfunction.
  zh: 相反，我们的救恩必须来自功能失调之外。
- start: 2344.86
  end: 2347.202
  speaker: barron
  en: It has to enter into the dysfunction.
  zh: 它必须进入功能失调中。
- start: 2347.202
  end: 2350.004
  speaker: barron
  en: Yes, indeed, he became one of us.
  zh: 是的，祂确实成为我们的一员。
- start: 2350.706
  end: 2353.308
  speaker: barron
  en: But he came down from heaven.
  zh: 但祂从天降临。
- start: 2354.961
  end: 2361.263
  speaker: barron
  en: It's that wonderful coming together that allows for us to speak of real salvation.
  zh: 正是这奇妙的结合使我们能够谈论真正的救恩。
- start: 2361.623
  end: 2370.406
  speaker: barron
  en: He came low enough to address the problem, but he came from a place outside of the problem, down from heaven.
  zh: 祂降得足够低以解决问题，但祂来自问题之外，从天降临。
- start: 2373.387
  end: 2383.151
  speaker: barron
  en: And then beautifully, "...and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary and became man."
  zh: 然后美妙地说：「因圣灵感孕，由童贞马利亚所生，成为人。」
- start: 2385.433
  end: 2390.036
  speaker: barron
  en: Again, I'm going to bracket the Holy Spirit because I'll get to the Holy Spirit in a later lecture.
  zh: 我暂且不谈圣灵，因为我会在后面的讲座中讲到圣灵。
- start: 2390.076
  end: 2397.04
  speaker: barron
  en: So let me focus here on "incarnate of the Virgin Mary and became man."
  zh: 所以让我集中在「由童贞马利亚所生，成为人」。
- start: 2398.481
  end: 2407.646
  speaker: barron
  en: Why is the Creed insisting, of course with its roots in the Bible, on the virginity of Mary, the virginity of the mother of Jesus?
  zh: 为什么信经坚持，当然这是有圣经根基的，马利亚的童贞，耶稣母亲的童贞？
- start: 2408.427
  end: 2410.868
  speaker: barron
  en: I think here's a first indication.
  zh: 我认为这是第一个指示。
- start: 2411.969
  end: 2421.443
  speaker: barron
  en: Mary's virginity indicates as clearly as possible that God is involved in the coming to be of Jesus.
  zh: 马利亚的童贞尽可能清楚地表明神参与了耶稣的降生。
- start: 2422.344
  end: 2424.306
  speaker: barron
  en: He's truly man, yes indeed.
  zh: 祂确实是真正的人。
- start: 2425.667
  end: 2433.574
  speaker: barron
  en: But the fact that he comes to be without the intervention of a human father shows in a very definitive way that this is the work of God.
  zh: 但祂的降生没有人父的介入，这以非常明确的方式表明这是神的工作。
- start: 2434.936
  end: 2446.713
  speaker: barron
  en: Moreover, it shows that what's at stake in Christianity is not just a new fresh teaching, but rather the reworking of creation.
  zh: 此外，这表明基督教所关心的不仅仅是新的教导，而是对创造的重新塑造。
- start: 2449.014
  end: 2451.615
  speaker: barron
  en: He's the Savior, not just of our moral lives.
  zh: 祂是救主，不仅仅是我们道德生活的救主。
- start: 2451.615
  end: 2453.656
  speaker: barron
  en: He's the Savior of the whole world.
  zh: 祂是整个世界的救主。
- start: 2453.736
  end: 2458.919
  speaker: barron
  en: God is affecting something really new right in the heart of nature.
  zh: 神正在自然的核心中进行真正的新事。
- start: 2458.919
  end: 2462.841
  speaker: barron
  en: This, too, is communicated by the virginity of Mary.
  zh: 这也通过马利亚的童贞传达出来。
- start: 2463.701
  end: 2464.942
  speaker: barron
  en: Something else, I've always loved this.
  zh: 还有一点，我一直很喜欢。
- start: 2464.942
  end: 2466.803
  speaker: barron
  en: The church fathers loved it, too.
  zh: 教父们也很喜欢。
- start: 2467.983
  end: 2471.685
  speaker: barron
  en: The Virgin Mary is evocative of the Ark of the Covenant.
  zh: 童贞马利亚让人想起约柜。
- start: 2472.739
  end: 2479.467
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, in the Old Testament, in this great container, the Israelites placed the Ten Commandments.
  zh: 你知道，在旧约中，以色列人将十诫放在这个伟大的容器中。
- start: 2479.988
  end: 2483.412
  speaker: barron
  en: It's a sign of the presence of God among them.
  zh: 这是神在他们中间同在的标志。
- start: 2485.516
  end: 2491.423
  speaker: barron
  en: Who is the Ark of the Covenant in the fullest possible sense but the Virgin Mary?
  zh: 在最充分的意义上，谁是约柜呢？不就是童贞马利亚吗？
- start: 2491.97
  end: 2505.695
  speaker: barron
  en: Who, in her purity, both physical and spiritual, becomes the receptacle, not just of the tablets of the Ten Commandments, but the receptacle of the Logos, of God from God, light from light, true God from true God.
  zh: 她在身体和灵性上的纯洁，成为容器，不仅仅是十诫的容器，而是道的容器，神的神，光的光，真神的真神。
- start: 2505.695
  end: 2508.837
  speaker: barron
  en: Mary becomes the definitive Ark of the Covenant.
  zh: 马利亚成为最终的约柜。
- start: 2508.837
  end: 2519.181
  speaker: barron
  en: She's also thereby evocative of ancient Israel, which in its totality was a kind of Ark of the Covenant, bearing to the world the Word of God.
  zh: 她也因此让人想起古代以色列，整体上是一种约柜，将神的道带给世界。
- start: 2519.181
  end: 2527.325
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, that's Mary the Virgin who now bears in the fullest possible sense the Word of God to the world.
  zh: 这就是童贞马利亚，她以最充分的意义将神的道带给世界。
- start: 2528.406
  end: 2542.012
  speaker: barron
  en: All this is summed up in that beautiful, it's the highest praise offered to any human being in the Bible when the angel addresses Mary, "kakaratomene" in the Greek, full of grace.
  zh: 这一切都总结在那美丽的赞美中，这是圣经中对任何人最高的赞美，当天使对马利亚说，希腊文「kakaratomene」，蒙大恩的女子。
- start: 2542.742
  end: 2547.605
  speaker: barron
  en: 'We use that phrase every time we pray the Hail Mary: Hail Mary, full of grace.'
  zh: 我们每次祷告圣母经时都用这句话：万福马利亚，蒙大恩的女子。
- start: 2547.986
  end: 2553.329
  speaker: barron
  en: That word sums up everything I've just been saying about Mary, especially in her virginity.
  zh: 这句话总结了我刚才所说的关于马利亚的一切，尤其是她的童贞。
- start: 2557.833
  end: 2563.016
  speaker: barron
  en: He was incarnate of the Virgin Mary and became man.
  zh: 因圣灵感孕，由童贞马利亚所生，成为人。
- start: 2564.301
  end: 2566.443
  speaker: barron
  en: '"Sarco penta" is the Greek word there.'
  zh: 希腊文是「sarco penta」。
- start: 2566.443
  end: 2568.484
  speaker: barron
  en: '"Sarx" means flesh in Greek.'
  zh: 「sarx」在希腊文中意为肉体。
- start: 2569.445
  end: 2573.007
  speaker: barron
  en: He became enfleshed of the Virgin Mary.
  zh: 祂由童贞马利亚所生，成为肉身。
- start: 2575.809
  end: 2583.335
  speaker: barron
  en: First of all, notice, everybody, how strange this claim is, both for the Jewish mind and for the Greek mind.
  zh: 首先，请注意，这个宣告对犹太人和希腊人来说是多么奇怪。
- start: 2583.775
  end: 2590.16
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, Jews certainly held that God created matter, of course, and there's nothing puritanical about Jewish religion.
  zh: 犹太人当然认为神创造了物质，犹太宗教并不禁欲。
- start: 2590.16
  end: 2591.841
  speaker: barron
  en: God loves matter.
  zh: 神爱物质。
- start: 2592.17
  end: 2594.792
  speaker: barron
  en: But the creator of the world is not material.
  zh: 但世界的创造主不是物质的。
- start: 2594.793
  end: 2597.335
  speaker: barron
  en: God is spirit, we hear clearly in the Bible.
  zh: 圣经明确告诉我们，神是灵。
- start: 2598.757
  end: 2610.466
  speaker: barron
  en: That God, purely spiritual, would become flesh, would enter into flesh, is counterintuitive, even more so for those shaped by Greek philosophy.
  zh: 那纯粹属灵的神成为肉身，进入肉体，这是违反直觉的，对受希腊哲学影响的人更是如此。
- start: 2610.466
  end: 2612.888
  speaker: barron
  en: And we heard about that in a previous lecture, didn't we?
  zh: 我们在之前的讲座中听到过，不是吗？
- start: 2613.028
  end: 2619.733
  speaker: barron
  en: God, actus purus, pure spirit, absolute being, essence and existence coincide in him.
  zh: 神，纯粹行动，纯粹灵性，绝对存在，本质和存在在祂里面一致。
- start: 2619.733
  end: 2625.737
  speaker: barron
  en: The one thing we have to say is there's nothing material about God because matter bears potency.
  zh: 我们必须说的一点是，神没有物质性，因为物质具有潜能。
- start: 2625.737
  end: 2628.198
  speaker: barron
  en: God, who's actus purus, has no potency.
  zh: 神，纯粹行动，没有潜能。
- start: 2628.198
  end: 2630.079
  speaker: barron
  en: Therefore, God is not material.
  zh: 因此，神不是物质的。
- start: 2631.06
  end: 2635.043
  speaker: barron
  en: So it wasn't meant to say that he became flesh, right?
  zh: 所以这并不是说祂成为肉体，对吧？
- start: 2637.722
  end: 2645.768
  speaker: barron
  en: The first temptation we should avoid is that we're not talking here about God somehow turning into matter.
  zh: 我们首先要避免的诱惑是，我们不是在说神以某种方式变成了物质。
- start: 2646.169
  end: 2649.992
  speaker: barron
  en: So don't forget everything I said in the previous lecture.
  zh: 所以不要忘记我在之前讲座中所说的一切。
- start: 2649.992
  end: 2651.373
  speaker: barron
  en: All that's true.
  zh: 那些都是真的。
- start: 2651.613
  end: 2653.195
  speaker: barron
  en: That God is purely immaterial.
  zh: 神是纯粹非物质的。
- start: 2653.195
  end: 2654.436
  speaker: barron
  en: God is purely actual.
  zh: 神是纯粹实际的。
- start: 2654.436
  end: 2655.597
  speaker: barron
  en: Has no potency.
  zh: 没有潜能。
- start: 2655.597
  end: 2663.383
  speaker: barron
  en: God doesn't stop being God and now turn into something non-God, turning into something material.
  zh: 神没有停止作为神而变成非神的东西，变成物质。
- start: 2663.383
  end: 2664.864
  speaker: barron
  en: That's not what we mean.
  zh: 这不是我们的意思。
- start: 2665.473
  end: 2680.797
  speaker: barron
  en: I love in the Council of Chalcedon, which took place about a century after Nicaea, Chalcedon clarifies that the two natures, divine and human in Jesus, come together, but without mixing, mingling, or confusion.
  zh: 我喜欢迦克墩会议，它在尼西亚大约一个世纪后举行，迦克墩澄清耶稣的神性和人性结合在一起，但没有混合、混淆或混乱。
- start: 2680.797
  end: 2683.738
  speaker: barron
  en: That means that one doesn't turn into the other.
  zh: 这意味着一个没有变成另一个。
- start: 2684.458
  end: 2688.339
  speaker: barron
  en: The divinity and humanity remain ontologically distinct.
  zh: 神性和人性在本体上仍然区分。
- start: 2689.72
  end: 2695.001
  speaker: barron
  en: So what does it mean then to say that the Logos became incarnate?
  zh: 那么，说道成肉身是什么意思呢？
- start: 2696.021
  end: 2697.162
  speaker: barron
  en: Here's a way to put it.
  zh: 可以这样说。
- start: 2698.544
  end: 2717.143
  speaker: barron
  en: The Logos, the second person of the Trinity, God from God, light from light, begotten, not made, takes to himself a human nature, joins to himself a human nature, so as to use it for his iconic purposes.
  zh: 道，三位一体的第二位，神的神，光的光，受生而非受造，取了人性，将人性与自己结合，以便为祂的象征性目的使用。
- start: 2717.947
  end: 2726.509
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of an icon in Eastern Christian traditions, the icon of a saint, that becomes the means by which we contact that saint.
  zh: 想想东正教传统中的圣像，圣徒的圣像，成为我们与那圣徒接触的方式。
- start: 2726.509
  end: 2730.33
  speaker: barron
  en: We see that we're in the icon, the spiritual reality.
  zh: 我们看到在圣像中有属灵的现实。
- start: 2730.55
  end: 2735.391
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, Paul refers to Jesus as the icon of the invisible God.
  zh: 保罗称耶稣为那看不见之神的像。
- start: 2735.912
  end: 2745.113
  speaker: barron
  en: His humanity, and that means his human mind and human will and his human body, his humanity becomes the icon of...
  zh: 祂的人性，包括祂的人类心智、人类意志和人类身体，祂的人性成为……的像。
- start: 2745.113
  end: 2753.738
  speaker: barron
  en: It's in his transfigured humanity that we see and sense the divinity in him.
  zh: 在祂变像的人性中，我们看见并感受到祂的神性。
- start: 2754.179
  end: 2758.721
  speaker: barron
  en: In that way, we say he became flesh.
  zh: 以这种方式，我们说祂成为肉身。
- start: 2758.861
  end: 2761.703
  speaker: barron
  en: He became one of us.
  zh: 祂成为我们的一员。
- start: 2762.664
  end: 2766.165
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, here's an image from the Old Testament that always helps me.
  zh: 你知道，有一个旧约的形象总是帮助我。
- start: 2767.967
  end: 2771.869
  speaker: barron
  en: God speaks to Moses out of this burning bush.
  zh: 神从燃烧的荆棘中对摩西说话。
- start: 2772.915
  end: 2776.957
  speaker: barron
  en: The bush is on fire, but not consumed.
  zh: 荆棘被火烧着，却没有烧毁。
- start: 2780.058
  end: 2783.239
  speaker: barron
  en: God is not a rival to his creation.
  zh: 神不是祂创造物的对手。
- start: 2785.161
  end: 2793.464
  speaker: barron
  en: In the ancient mythological stories, when the gods enter into the human realm, people are incinerated.
  zh: 在古代神话中，当神进入人间时，人们会被焚毁。
- start: 2793.464
  end: 2797.026
  speaker: barron
  en: People have to give way because the gods are competitive with us.
  zh: 人们必须让路，因为神与我们竞争。
- start: 2798.266
  end: 2811.397
  speaker: barron
  en: But the God of the Bible can light a creature on fire, making it luminous and beautiful, and the creature is not consumed.
  zh: 但圣经的神能点燃受造物，使其光辉美丽，而受造物不被消耗。
- start: 2812.62
  end: 2820.729
  speaker: barron
  en: The closer God gets, the more beautiful we become, and we're not consumed by God's presence; we're elevated by it.
  zh: 神越接近，我们就越美丽，我们不被神的同在消耗，反而被提升。
- start: 2821.5
  end: 2829.444
  speaker: barron
  en: And so as the Logos takes to himself a human nature, that human nature is rendered luminous and beautiful and compelling.
  zh: 因此，当道取了人性时，那人性被赋予光辉、美丽和吸引力。
- start: 2829.524
  end: 2832.946
  speaker: barron
  en: It's more itself than it would be otherwise.
  zh: 它比原本更成为自己。
- start: 2833.926
  end: 2841.83
  speaker: barron
  en: The non-competitiveness between God and humanity is expressed most fully in the incarnation.
  zh: 神与人之间的非竞争性在道成肉身中得到最充分的表达。
- start: 2843.371
  end: 2845.272
  speaker: barron
  en: Just one last point I want to make.
  zh: 我想再讲最后一点。
- start: 2845.372
  end: 2853.95
  speaker: barron
  en: I know in this kind of dense section of the Creed dealing with Jesus, what's the upshot of all of this for us?
  zh: 我知道在信经中这段密集的关于耶稣的部分，这一切对我们有什么意义？
- start: 2854.531
  end: 2857.532
  speaker: barron
  en: So we say, okay, I guess all that's true about Jesus.
  zh: 所以我们说，好吧，我想这些关于耶稣的都是真的。
- start: 2860.894
  end: 2867.097
  speaker: barron
  en: The fathers of the Eastern Christian world use the word theosis.
  zh: 东方基督教的教父们用「神化」这个词。
- start: 2868.699
  end: 2876.963
  speaker: barron
  en: Their Latin counterparts in the West translated that word happily as divinizatio, divinization.
  zh: 他们在西方的拉丁同行高兴地将其翻译为「divinizatio」，神化。
- start: 2879.617
  end: 2889.719
  speaker: barron
  en: The church fathers, both east and west, love to use the phrase, "God became human that humans might become God."
  zh: 东西方的教父们都喜欢用这句话：「神成为人，为要人得以成为神。」
- start: 2890.299
  end: 2921.933
  speaker: barron
  en: That doesn't mean that we turn into God, but it means God condescended to enter into our humanity, taking to himself a human nature, listen now, so as to save us and heal us so radically that we become not just more morally upright people, more spiritually alert people, but rather we become participants in His divinity.
  zh: 这并不是说我们变成神，而是说神谦卑地进入我们的人性，取了人性，听着，为要如此彻底地拯救和医治我们，使我们不仅成为更道德正直的人，更灵性警觉的人，而是成为祂神性的参与者。
- start: 2923.134
  end: 2932.239
  speaker: barron
  en: We become divinized, sons and daughters in the Son.
  zh: 我们被神化，成为子里的儿女。
- start: 2932.901
  end: 2938.922
  speaker: barron
  en: You see now the full meaning of, "for us men and for our salvation, He came down from heaven."
  zh: 你现在看到「为我们人类，并为我们的得救，从天降临」的完整意义。
- start: 2939.623
  end: 2948.385
  speaker: barron
  en: God from God, light from light, enters into our humanity so as to make our humanity luminous with His light.
  zh: 神的神，光的光，进入我们的人性，使我们的人性充满祂的光辉。
- start: 2950.025
  end: 2956.567
  speaker: barron
  en: That's why this section of the Creed, everybody, is of such spiritual significance.
  zh: 这就是为什么信经的这一部分，各位，具有如此重大的属灵意义。
- start: 2957.501
  end: 2966.313
  speaker: barron
  en: It seems that there are lots of myths and religions that discuss how the gods or God entered into humanity.
  zh: 似乎有许多神话和宗教讨论神或神如何进入人类。
- start: 2966.554
  end: 2968.757
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm thinking of Horus or Mithras.
  zh: 我想到荷鲁斯或密特拉。
- start: 2968.878
  end: 2972.763
  speaker: barron
  en: What's the difference between the incarnation and these myths?
  zh: 道成肉身与这些神话有什么区别？
- start: 2973.146
  end: 2977.191
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, I'd say, first of all, the incarnation is a historical claim.
  zh: 首先，我会说，道成肉身是一个历史性的宣告。
- start: 2977.232
  end: 2996.569
  speaker: barron
  en: The fact that Jesus can be identified in a particular period, the fact that we say he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, this identifiable Roman governor of a particular era, the facticity, the historicity of the incarnation differentiates it from all these mythic expressions.
  zh: 耶稣可以在特定时期被识别，我们说祂在本丢彼拉多手下被钉十字架，这位特定时代可识别的罗马总督，道成肉身的事实性和历史性将其与所有这些神话表达区分开来。
- start: 2996.569
  end: 2998.351
  speaker: barron
  en: Now mind you, I love the myths.
  zh: 请注意，我喜欢神话。
- start: 2998.351
  end: 2999.911
  speaker: barron
  en: Mythology is wonderful.
  zh: 神话很美妙。
- start: 2999.972
  end: 3010.358
  speaker: barron
  en: Myths trade in the sort of general truths about life, about humanity, about nature, etc. They're great.
  zh: 神话传达关于生命、人性、自然等的一般真理。它们很棒。
- start: 3010.358
  end: 3011.658
  speaker: barron
  en: I love the myths.
  zh: 我喜欢神话。
- start: 3011.658
  end: 3016.121
  speaker: barron
  en: But the myths always have a sort of "once upon a time" quality, right?
  zh: 但神话总是有一种「从前」的特质，对吧？
- start: 3016.361
  end: 3020.825
  speaker: barron
  en: We're not trying to identify now, who was the Roman emperor when Hercules was doing?
  zh: 我们不会试图识别赫拉克勒斯活动时的罗马皇帝是谁。
- start: 3020.825
  end: 3023.968
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, no one asked that question because they know he's not a historical figure.
  zh: 没有人问这个问题，因为他们知道他不是历史人物。
- start: 3023.968
  end: 3027.331
  speaker: barron
  en: No one wonders now, under what pharaoh was Osiris?
  zh: 没有人会想，奥西里斯在哪位法老手下？
- start: 3027.331
  end: 3037.039
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, no one asked that question because the myths are "once upon a time" or bring it up to date, a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.
  zh: 我的意思是，没有人问这个问题，因为神话是「从前」，或者用现代的话说，很久以前在一个遥远的星系。
- start: 3037.039
  end: 3038.96
  speaker: barron
  en: That's mythic language, right?
  zh: 那是神话语言，对吧？
- start: 3039.08
  end: 3041.022
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm not identifying it historically.
  zh: 我不是在历史上识别它。
- start: 3041.182
  end: 3048.244
  speaker: barron
  en: Christianity is deeply interested in the historical particularity of Jesus.
  zh: 基督教对耶稣的历史特性深感兴趣。
- start: 3048.245
  end: 3051.145
  speaker: barron
  en: So he's not like just a generic truth.
  zh: 所以祂不是一种普遍的真理。
- start: 3051.486
  end: 3053.386
  speaker: barron
  en: It's this Jesus.
  zh: 是这位耶稣。
- start: 3053.546
  end: 3057.048
  speaker: barron
  en: In him, God took flesh and dwelt among us.
  zh: 在祂里面，神成为肉身，住在我们中间。
- start: 3057.048
  end: 3057.948
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the main difference.
  zh: 这就是主要的区别。
