- start: 5.5
  end: 15.2
  speaker: barron
  en: In the fourth century, intense deliberations over theological questions gave rise to the Nicene Creed.
  zh: 在第四世纪，关于神学问题的激烈讨论产生了尼西亚信经。
- start: 20.34
  end: 27.33
  speaker: barron
  en: This formal statement of faith is the foundation for both Eastern and Western Christianity.
  zh: 这份正式的信仰声明是东西方基督教的基础。
- start: 30.08
  end: 34.72
  speaker: barron
  en: And to this day, most Christians around the world would subscribe to it.
  zh: 直到今天，世界上大多数基督徒都信奉它。
- start: 38.03
  end: 47.79
  speaker: barron
  en: In our age of secularism, skepticism, and disaffiliation, we attend to the most basic issue first.
  zh: 在我们这个世俗化、怀疑和脱离信仰的时代，我们首先关注最基本的问题。
- start: 49.23
  end: 52.85
  speaker: barron
  en: What does it mean to believe in God?
  zh: 信神是什么意思？
- start: 63.06
  end: 73.5
  speaker: barron
  en: The Nicene Creed is one of the most elegant, intelligent, and succinct statements of Christian belief that's come to us from the ancient world.
  zh: 尼西亚信经是从古代传给我们的最优雅、最智慧、最简洁的基督教信仰声明之一。
- start: 73.72
  end: 76.16
  speaker: barron
  en: But it's much more than just an ancient text.
  zh: 但它不仅仅是古代的文本。
- start: 76.16
  end: 77.56
  speaker: barron
  en: It's a living text.
  zh: 它是一个活生生的文本。
- start: 77.7
  end: 83.4
  speaker: barron
  en: Because at Catholic Mass and many other liturgies in the Christian world besides, it's recited as a message.
  zh: 因为在公教会的弥撒和基督教世界的许多其他礼仪中，它被作为信息来诵读。
- start: 83.4
  end: 84.44
  speaker: barron
  en: It's recited every Sunday.
  zh: 每个星期天都诵读。
- start: 85.06
  end: 90.9
  speaker: barron
  en: Therefore, it's one of the best ways to understand what it is that Christians believe.
  zh: 因此，这是理解基督徒信仰的最佳途径之一。
- start: 90.9
  end: 99.4
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm going to spend the next lectures now talking about the theological meaning of this great statement of Christian belief.
  zh: 接下来我将用几次讲座来讨论这伟大的基督教信仰声明的神学意义。
- start: 100.5
  end: 110.7
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, the best we can figure is that the original Greek form began with the word pistuomen, which means we believe.
  zh: 你知道，我们最好的推测是，原始希腊文形式以pistuomen这个词开始，意思是我们相信。
- start: 111.33
  end: 115.55
  speaker: barron
  en: But other Greek versions had pistuo, which means I believe.
  zh: 但其他希腊文版本是pistuo，意思是我相信。
- start: 116.33
  end: 122.33
  speaker: barron
  en: In the Latin version, credo in unum Deum, it begins, I believe.
  zh: 在拉丁文版本中，credo in unum Deum以我相信开始。
- start: 122.75
  end: 128.23000000000002
  speaker: barron
  en: When I was coming of age, the first many years of my life in the Catholic Church, we said, we believe.
  zh: 当我成长时，在公教会的头几年，我们说我们相信。
- start: 128.29
  end: 131.79
  speaker: barron
  en: In more recent years, we've been saying, I believe.
  zh: 在最近几年，我们说我相信。
- start: 131.79
  end: 135.55
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, I think that ambiguity in a way is kind of eloquent.
  zh: 我认为这种模糊性某种程度上是有说服力的。
- start: 135.55
  end: 137.43
  speaker: barron
  en: I wouldn't want to resolve it.
  zh: 我不想解决它。
- start: 137.98
  end: 142.13
  speaker: barron
  en: There's great value in saying, we believe.
  zh: 说我们相信有很大的价值。
- start: 142.63
  end: 146.51
  speaker: barron
  en: Because the Christian thing is not an individualist, it's an enterprise.
  zh: 因为基督教信仰不是个人主义的，它是一个共同体。
- start: 147.15
  end: 149.13
  speaker: barron
  en: No, no, we believe together.
  zh: 不，不，我们一起相信。
- start: 149.13
  end: 150.65
  speaker: barron
  en: We believe as a community.
  zh: 我们作为一个群体相信。
- start: 151.27
  end: 158.23
  speaker: barron
  en: Think as you're reciting that creed on a Sunday, maybe there's an article of the creed that you're having a little more difficulty with.
  zh: 当你在星期天诵读信经时，可能有一条信经你有些难以理解。
- start: 158.58
  end: 163.58
  speaker: barron
  en: But someone else in the same crowd has no trouble with that article.
  zh: 但同一人群中的其他人对那条信经没有问题。
- start: 163.58
  end: 165.2
  speaker: barron
  en: And then vice versa.
  zh: 反之亦然。
- start: 165.2
  end: 169.1
  speaker: barron
  en: In a way, we support each other in our belief.
  zh: 在某种程度上，我们在信仰上互相支持。
- start: 169.92
  end: 173.98
  speaker: barron
  en: On the other hand, the I believe has a great value.
  zh: 另一方面，我相信也有很大的价值。
- start: 174.22
  end: 176.0
  speaker: barron
  en: Because it's a bit like an oath.
  zh: 因为它有点像誓言。
- start: 176.0
  end: 186.69
  speaker: barron
  en: When you can stand there on your own two feet, and in your own name say, I believe this, you're taking a very strong stance.
  zh: 当你能站在那里，用自己的名字说我相信这件事时，你是在采取一个非常坚定的立场。
- start: 187.54
  end: 192.0
  speaker: barron
  en: So I'm okay, the opening word either is we or is I believe.
  zh: 所以我觉得无论开头是我们还是我相信都可以。
- start: 192.0
  end: 193.72
  speaker: barron
  en: I think each has a value.
  zh: 我认为每个都有价值。
- start: 194.48
  end: 200.01
  speaker: barron
  en: What I want to really focus on though is that second word, believe.
  zh: 但我真正想关注的是第二个词，相信。
- start: 201.04
  end: 207.28
  speaker: barron
  en: I think today, it's one of the most misunderstood words in the religious lexicon.
  zh: 我认为今天，它是宗教词汇中最被误解的词之一。
- start: 207.28
  end: 208.84
  speaker: barron
  en: And what do I mean?
  zh: 我的意思是什么？
- start: 208.96
  end: 214.18
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, a lot of the critics of religion today will say, well, isn't that nice?
  zh: 今天很多宗教的批评者会说，那不是很好吗？
- start: 214.18
  end: 216.88
  speaker: barron
  en: Religious people, they don't really know these things.
  zh: 宗教人士，他们并不真正了解这些事情。
- start: 216.88
  end: 219.04
  speaker: barron
  en: They can't prove them scientifically.
  zh: 他们无法用科学证明它们。
- start: 219.04
  end: 221.56
  speaker: barron
  en: They have no good arguments for them.
  zh: 他们没有好的论据。
- start: 221.96
  end: 224.7
  speaker: barron
  en: Rather, they're playing a kind of make believe.
  zh: 相反，他们是在玩一种假装相信的游戏。
- start: 224.96
  end: 228.6
  speaker: barron
  en: I'll believe certain things on the basis of no evidence.
  zh: 我会在没有证据的基础上相信某些事情。
- start: 229.25
  end: 231.13
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, can I just say this right off the bat?
  zh: 现在，我能马上说这个吗？
- start: 231.13
  end: 236.19
  speaker: barron
  en: And if you get nothing else from these lectures, but you remember this in a way I'd be happy.
  zh: 如果你从这些讲座中什么都没得到，但你记住了这一点，我会很高兴。
- start: 236.67
  end: 239.53
  speaker: barron
  en: That's not what believe means.
  zh: 那不是相信的意思。
- start: 240.08
  end: 247.94
  speaker: barron
  en: When serious Christians use the term, it does not mean accepting things wildly on the basis of no evidence.
  zh: 当严肃的基督徒使用这个词时，并不意味着在没有证据的基础上盲目接受事情。
- start: 248.67
  end: 254.0
  speaker: barron
  en: Authentic belief is never infra -rational.
  zh: 真正的信仰从不低于理性。
- start: 254.0
  end: 256.86
  speaker: barron
  en: What I mean is it's never below reason.
  zh: 我的意思是它从不低于理性。
- start: 257.65
  end: 260.88
  speaker: barron
  en: It's always supra -rational.
  zh: 它总是超越理性。
- start: 260.88
  end: 265.47
  speaker: barron
  en: It's beyond reason and inclusive of it.
  zh: 它超越理性并包容理性。
- start: 265.99
  end: 270.27
  speaker: barron
  en: Let me look at it a little more exactly by looking at both sides of the equation.
  zh: 让我更准确地看一下这个问题的两面。
- start: 270.27
  end: 277.37
  speaker: barron
  en: What I mean is from the side of the believer and then from the side of the object of the belief.
  zh: 我的意思是从信徒的角度和信仰对象的角度来看。
- start: 278.12
  end: 279.96
  speaker: barron
  en: So I believe.
  zh: 所以我相信。
- start: 280.84
  end: 288.14
  speaker: barron
  en: John Henry Newman, one of my great intellectual heroes, spent a lot of his time delving into this question.
  zh: 约翰·亨利·纽曼，我伟大的智识英雄之一，花了很多时间探讨这个问题。
- start: 288.95
  end: 293.79
  speaker: barron
  en: He was battling John Locke, the great English philosopher.
  zh: 他在与伟大的英国哲学家约翰·洛克斗争。
- start: 293.83
  end: 305.84
  speaker: barron
  en: Locke had said, the quality of our ascent should be directly proportional to the quality of the inferential support that we can garner for that ascent.
  zh: 洛克曾说，我们信仰的质量应该与我们能为其收集到的推理支持的质量成正比。
- start: 305.84
  end: 313.82
  speaker: barron
  en: A fancy way of saying, if I've got a really convincing argument for something, then my ascent should be total.
  zh: 换句话说，如果我对某事有一个非常有说服力的论据，那么我的信仰应该是完全的。
- start: 314.02
  end: 318.88
  speaker: barron
  en: If I've got kind of a middling argument, then my ascent should be middling.
  zh: 如果我有一个中等的论据，那么我的信仰应该是中等的。
- start: 319.06
  end: 323.38
  speaker: barron
  en: If I've got a very poor argument, then my ascent should be at a low level.
  zh: 如果我有一个非常差的论据，那么我的信仰应该是低水平的。
- start: 324.02
  end: 326.7
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, it seems commonsensical enough.
  zh: 嗯，这似乎很常识。
- start: 326.88
  end: 329.42
  speaker: barron
  en: But Newman stood athwart this.
  zh: 但纽曼反对这一点。
- start: 329.98
  end: 336.18
  speaker: barron
  en: He said, maybe in a higher world that's true, but in this world, we rarely think that way.
  zh: 他说，也许在一个更高的世界中这是正确的，但在这个世界中，我们很少这样思考。
- start: 336.78
  end: 345.2
  speaker: barron
  en: In fact, most things that we claim to know, in fact, are not based upon clinching absolute arguments.
  zh: 事实上，我们声称知道的大多数事情并不是基于绝对的论据。
- start: 346.73
  end: 352.37
  speaker: barron
  en: His famous example is, who doesn't know that Great Britain is an island?
  zh: 他著名的例子是，谁不知道大不列颠是一个岛屿？
- start: 352.75
  end: 357.41
  speaker: barron
  en: And yet, there's no absolute clinching proof of that.
  zh: 然而，没有绝对的证据证明这一点。
- start: 357.97
  end: 368.97
  speaker: barron
  en: Rather, we know it as a result of a whole conjuries of experiences, intuitions, witnesses, books, et cetera.
  zh: 相反，我们知道这是许多经验、直觉、见证和书籍等的结果。
- start: 368.99
  end: 373.75
  speaker: barron
  en: Newman says, look, every history book I've ever read about England assumes it.
  zh: 纽曼说，看，我读过的每一本关于英国的历史书都假设了这一点。
- start: 373.97
  end: 377.81
  speaker: barron
  en: Every map I've ever seen takes it for granted.
  zh: 我见过的每一张地图都认为这是理所当然的。
- start: 377.87
  end: 382.87
  speaker: barron
  en: Every person I've ever talked to about England would assume that Great Britain is an island.
  zh: 我与之谈论英国的每个人都会认为大不列颠是一个岛屿。
- start: 384.61
  end: 389.99
  speaker: barron
  en: My own experience, maybe moving around the shore of Great Britain, affirms it.
  zh: 我自己的经验，也许是在大不列颠的海岸线周围移动，证实了这一点。
- start: 390.92
  end: 398.92
  speaker: barron
  en: The point is, I assent to that claim on the basis of a whole conjuries of different things, arguments, hunches, intuition.
  zh: 关键是，我基于各种不同的事物、论据、直觉同意这一说法。
- start: 400.63
  end: 405.19
  speaker: barron
  en: So it goes, Newman argued, in regard to almost everything we claim to know.
  zh: 纽曼认为，几乎我们声称知道的所有事情都是如此。
- start: 405.19
  end: 409.17
  speaker: barron
  en: Think, for example, of even the scientific facts that we know.
  zh: 例如，想想我们知道的科学事实。
- start: 409.17
  end: 413.25
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, how many of us have actually verified these things directly?
  zh: 那么，我们中有多少人实际上直接验证了这些事情？
- start: 413.67
  end: 420.77
  speaker: barron
  en: No, no, we rely on the findings of people that came before us, and they on the findings of people that came before them.
  zh: 不，不，我们依靠前人的发现，他们依靠更早前人的发现。
- start: 422.69
  end: 426.99
  speaker: barron
  en: So, in the religious order, Newman said, the same thing obtains.
  zh: 纽曼说，在宗教秩序中也是如此。
- start: 427.43
  end: 430.87
  speaker: barron
  en: We're not believing things just sort of wildly with no justification.
  zh: 我们不是毫无根据地盲目相信事情。
- start: 430.87
  end: 446.77
  speaker: barron
  en: Rather, we know religious truth the same way we know any other truth, by a coming together of argument and deed, but also experience and hunch and intuition and witness.
  zh: 相反，我们通过论据和行为的结合，以及经验、直觉和见证来了解宗教真理，就像我们了解其他真理一样。
- start: 447.48
  end: 453.32
  speaker: barron
  en: That's why Newman said beautifully that faith is not opposed to reason.
  zh: 这就是为什么纽曼优美地说，信仰并不反对理性。
- start: 453.49
  end: 458.15
  speaker: barron
  en: Faith, he said, is the reasoning of a religious mind.
  zh: 他说，信仰是宗教心灵的推理。
- start: 458.15
  end: 459.37
  speaker: barron
  en: Isn't that good?
  zh: 这不是很好吗？
- start: 459.37
  end: 463.49
  speaker: barron
  en: It's the way we reason about the things of God.
  zh: 这是我们推理神事物的方式。
- start: 464.14
  end: 468.58
  speaker: barron
  en: You see, Newman's argument is what they call in logic a tu quoque.
  zh: 你看，纽曼的论点在逻辑中被称为「你也是」。
- start: 468.58
  end: 470.62
  speaker: barron
  en: That means, you too.
  zh: 意思是，你也是。
- start: 470.62
  end: 472.2
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, you do the same thing.
  zh: 我的意思是，你也这样做。
- start: 472.2
  end: 482.26
  speaker: barron
  en: Everyone that claims to know usually does so on the basis of this coming together of various points of view, all of which tend in the same direction.
  zh: 每个声称知道的人通常都是基于各种观点的汇聚，这些观点都趋向于同一个方向。
- start: 482.71
  end: 487.89
  speaker: barron
  en: So don't tell me that my belief is somehow primitive as opposed to your knowledge.
  zh: 所以别告诉我我的信仰比你的知识原始。
- start: 488.09
  end: 494.07
  speaker: barron
  en: In fact, we all know most things that we know in a very similar way.
  zh: 事实上，我们大多数事情的认知方式非常相似。
- start: 494.55
  end: 495.23
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay?
  zh: 好吗？
- start: 495.23
  end: 497.95
  speaker: barron
  en: That's belief from the side of the believer.
  zh: 那是从信徒角度的信仰。
- start: 498.37
  end: 501.57
  speaker: barron
  en: Now look at it from the side of the object of belief.
  zh: 现在从信仰对象的角度来看。
- start: 502.26
  end: 508.6
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm going to say much more about this in a second, but God is the object of our belief.
  zh: 我接下来会详细谈这个，但神是我们信仰的对象。
- start: 509.69
  end: 514.89
  speaker: barron
  en: God is not a thing in the world, not one reality among many.
  zh: 神不是世界上的一个事物，不是众多现实中的一个。
- start: 515.78
  end: 521.2
  speaker: barron
  en: Rather, God is that power through which the whole of the finite world comes to be.
  zh: 相反，神是使整个有限世界存在的力量。
- start: 521.89
  end: 532.27
  speaker: barron
  en: Do you see, therefore, how it's simply inappropriate to use words like, knowledge and certitude and direct perception when it comes to God?
  zh: 因此，你明白了吧，当涉及到神时，用知识、确定性和直接感知这样的词是不合适的。
- start: 532.64
  end: 538.68
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, maybe things in our range of immediate experience I can use language such as that.
  zh: 我的意思是，也许在我们直接经验范围内的事物可以用这样的语言。
- start: 538.72
  end: 540.16
  speaker: barron
  en: But God?
  zh: 但神呢？
- start: 540.28
  end: 544.72
  speaker: barron
  en: No, God's always seen out of the corner of my eye.
  zh: 不，神总是从我的眼角看到的。
- start: 545.22
  end: 553.26
  speaker: barron
  en: You know that beautiful scene in the book of Exodus when God tells Moses that he'll be passing by and he puts Moses in the cleft of the rock.
  zh: 你知道《出埃及记》中那个美丽的场景，当神告诉摩西祂将经过，并把摩西放在磐石的裂缝中。
- start: 553.26
  end: 556.18
  speaker: barron
  en: But he says, you can't see me face to face.
  zh: 但祂说，你不能面对面看见我。
- start: 556.18
  end: 558.84
  speaker: barron
  en: You can only see my backside.
  zh: 你只能看见我的背。
- start: 559.41
  end: 569.81
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, the tradition has interpreted that to mean, I never see God directly with these eagle eyes and with this sort of controlling mind.
  zh: 传统解释为，我从未用这些鹰眼和这种控制心态直接看见神。
- start: 570.17
  end: 574.13
  speaker: barron
  en: No, no, God's always seen indirectly at best.
  zh: 不，不，神最多是间接地看到。
- start: 574.62
  end: 584.18
  speaker: barron
  en: And therefore, belief rather than clinching certitude seems to be the right language to use in regard to God.
  zh: 因此，信仰而不是确定性似乎是用来描述神的正确语言。
- start: 585.56
  end: 588.52
  speaker: barron
  en: Bishop, why does the church need creeds at all?
  zh: 主教，教会为什么需要信经？
- start: 588.52
  end: 596.82
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, it's interesting that really, in  all the great world religions, Christianity is unique that way, that we have these carefully articulated creeds.
  zh: 你知道，有趣的是，在所有伟大的世界宗教中，基督教是独特的，我们有这些精心阐述的信经。
- start: 596.82
  end: 600.26
  speaker: barron
  en: Some religions are really all about ethical behavior.
  zh: 有些宗教实际上全是关于伦理行为的。
- start: 600.26
  end: 602.46
  speaker: barron
  en: They're about kind of a mystical experience.
  zh: 它们是关于一种神秘的体验。
- start: 602.78
  end: 608.74
  speaker: barron
  en: Christianity from the beginning, from the earliest days, has wanted to lay the thing out logically.
  zh: 基督教从一开始，从最早的日子起，就想把事情逻辑地阐述出来。
- start: 608.74
  end: 613.32
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, to some degree, the creeds arise out of baptismal ceremonies.
  zh: 现在，在某种程度上，信经是从洗礼仪式中产生的。
- start: 613.32
  end: 617.38
  speaker: barron
  en: So if someone's about to be baptized and they're asked, you know, what do you believe?
  zh: 所以如果有人即将受洗，他们被问到，你知道，你相信什么？
- start: 617.38
  end: 618.32
  speaker: barron
  en: Do you believe in God?
  zh: 你相信神吗？
- start: 618.32
  end: 620.18
  speaker: barron
  en: Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
  zh: 你相信耶稣基督吗？
- start: 620.18
  end: 624.88
  speaker: barron
  en: So the Nicene Creed, for example, is an elaborated version of that.
  zh: 所以，尼西亚信经就是一个详细版本的例子。
- start: 624.88
  end: 628.5
  speaker: barron
  en: So they're related to making this stance.
  zh: 所以它们与表明这种立场有关。
- start: 628.5
  end: 633.08
  speaker: barron
  en: As you enter into the church, are you willing to say, yes, I believe in these things?
  zh: 当你进入教会时，你愿意说，是的，我相信这些事情吗？
- start: 633.08
  end: 638.88
  speaker: barron
  en: I'd also say this, that a logos theology is behind some of it.
  zh: 我还要说，背后有一些是逻各斯神学。
- start: 638.88
  end: 641.66
  speaker: barron
  en: The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
  zh: 道成了肉身，住在我们中间。
- start: 641.66
  end: 647.94
  speaker: barron
  en: And so Christianity from the beginning has been very interested in logic and the things of logic.
  zh: 所以基督教从一开始就对逻辑和逻辑的事物非常感兴趣。
- start: 647.94
  end: 659.54
  speaker: barron
  en: It reached out, Cardinal Ratzinger said this, Pope Benedict eventually, Joseph Ratzinger said, the church in the early days opted not for mythology, but for philosophy.
  zh: 拉青格枢机说过，教宗本笃最终，若瑟·拉青格说，早期的教会选择了哲学而不是神话。
- start: 659.68
  end: 661.8
  speaker: barron
  en: And the reason is logos.
  zh: 原因是道。
- start: 661.82
  end: 663.66
  speaker: barron
  en: The logos became flesh.
  zh: 道成了肉身。
- start: 663.66
  end: 670.08
  speaker: barron
  en: And therefore those who spoke logically of the logos in things, they became attractive to Christianity.
  zh: 因此，那些逻辑地谈论道的人，对基督教产生了吸引力。
- start: 670.08
  end: 671.94
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, the creeds participate in that.
  zh: 信经参与其中。
- start: 671.94
  end: 674.84
  speaker: barron
  en: They're a logical laying out of the faith.
  zh: 它们是对信仰的逻辑阐述。
- start: 675.14
  end: 681.54
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Why is the Nicene Creed of 325, particularly important to study today?
  zh: 为什么325年的尼西亚信经今天特别重要？
- start: 681.54
  end: 685.74
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, I think the Nicene Creed is important for today because of the unaffiliated.
  zh: 我认为尼西亚信经对今天的重要性在于那些没有宗教信仰的人。
- start: 685.74
  end: 689.92
  speaker: barron
  en: There are so many people today who have announced that they are not religious.
  zh: 今天有很多人宣布他们没有宗教信仰。
- start: 689.92
  end: 696.08
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, so when I was a kid, back in the 1970s, about 3 % of our country would have said I have no religion.
  zh: 你知道，当我还是个孩子时，在1970年代，我们国家大约3%的人会说我没有宗教信仰。
- start: 696.08
  end: 700.6
  speaker: barron
  en: Now it's 26%. That's a huge leap in a short period of time.
  zh: 现在是26%。这是在短时间内的巨大飞跃。
- start: 700.6
  end: 710.78
  speaker: barron
  en: I know from my dealings online with nonbelievers and skeptics, there's an army of people out there who don't really believe or really know what Christians believe.
  zh: 我知道从我与非信徒和怀疑论者的在线交往中，有一大群人实际上并不相信或真正了解基督徒的信仰。
- start: 710.78
  end: 712.06
  speaker: barron
  en: They have impressions.
  zh: 他们有印象。
- start: 712.06
  end: 715.34
  speaker: barron
  en: They have, you know, false ideas.
  zh: 他们有，你知道，错误的观念。
- start: 715.34
  end: 716.54
  speaker: barron
  en: They have this and that.
  zh: 他们有这样那样的想法。
- start: 716.54
  end: 722.7
  speaker: barron
  en: But very few, in my experience, have a clear sense of what we actually believe.
  zh: 但根据我的经验，很少有人对我们真正的信仰有清晰的认识。
- start: 722.7
  end: 726.9
  speaker: barron
  en: And I think the great virtue of the Nicene Creed is there it's laid out.
  zh: 我认为尼西亚信经的伟大之处在于它清晰地阐述了信仰。
- start: 726.9
  end: 729.88
  speaker: barron
  en: However, it does need to be unpacked.
  zh: 然而，它确实需要被解释。
- start: 729.88
  end: 731.96
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, what do all these terms mean?
  zh: 你知道，这些术语都是什么意思？
- start: 731.96
  end: 740.84
  speaker: barron
  en: But I think especially for the so -called nuns, the N -O -N -E -S, those who have no religion, I think something like the Nicene Creed is very important.
  zh: 但我认为，特别是对于那些所谓的无宗教者，我认为像尼西亚信经这样的东西非常重要。
- start: 741.2
  end: 743.66
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, so we covered two terms.
  zh: 好的，我们讨论了两个术语。
- start: 743.66
  end: 746.56
  speaker: barron
  en: I, or we, believe.
  zh: 我，或我们，相信。
- start: 746.9
  end: 748.8
  speaker: barron
  en: How about this little word?
  zh: 那么这个小词呢？
- start: 749.48
  end: 756.01
  speaker: barron
  en: In. I love in the Latin we say credo in unum Deum.
  zh: 在。拉丁文中我们说credo in unum Deum。
- start: 756.28
  end: 758.2
  speaker: barron
  en: I believe in one God.
  zh: 我相信独一的神。
- start: 758.2
  end: 762.7
  speaker: barron
  en: But in Latin, in can designate a place.
  zh: 但在拉丁文中，in可以表示一个地方。
- start: 762.94
  end: 764.72
  speaker: barron
  en: Like I'm in urbe.
  zh: 比如我在城市里。
- start: 764.72
  end: 766.16
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm in the city.
  zh: 我在城市里。
- start: 766.7
  end: 770.74
  speaker: barron
  en: But in, when it's used, as in this case, with the accusative.
  zh: 但在这种情况下，in与宾格一起使用。
- start: 770.92
  end: 772.94
  speaker: barron
  en: In unum Deum.
  zh: in unum Deum。
- start: 773.85
  end: 777.63
  speaker: barron
  en: That designates motion toward.
  zh: 这表示朝向的运动。
- start: 779.03
  end: 784.59
  speaker: barron
  en: Credo in unum Deum means I believe into God.
  zh: credo in unum Deum的意思是我信进入神。
- start: 784.59
  end: 789.62
  speaker: barron
  en: The fullness of God's mystery.
  zh: 神奥秘的丰满。
- start: 789.62
  end: 791.62
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, I can never grasp that.
  zh: 我永远无法完全理解。
- start: 792.68
  end: 797.32
  speaker: barron
  en: Rather, I'm always on a journey into the mystery of God.
  zh: 相反，我总是在进入神的奥秘的旅程中。
- start: 797.73
  end: 802.21
  speaker: barron
  en: How beautifully, by the way, St. Bonaventure puts that in the title of his famous book.
  zh: 顺便说一下，圣文德在他著名书的标题中多么美妙地表达了这一点。
- start: 803.11
  end: 805.17
  speaker: barron
  en: Itinerarium mentis in Deum.
  zh: 《心灵朝向神的旅程》。
- start: 805.17
  end: 807.35
  speaker: barron
  en: Same thing there, by the way, in Deum.
  zh: 顺便说一下，in Deum也是同样的意思。
- start: 807.35
  end: 814.35
  speaker: barron
  en: The itinerarium, the journey, mentis, of the mind or the soul, in Deum, into God.
  zh: itinerarium，旅程，mentis，心灵或灵魂，in Deum，进入神。
- start: 814.35
  end: 816.49
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, that's the whole spiritual life.
  zh: 那就是整个属灵生活。
- start: 817.69
  end: 819.63
  speaker: barron
  en: What's the creed?
  zh: 信经是什么？
- start: 819.66
  end: 826.97
  speaker: barron
  en: Not the fullness of Christian life, but rather signposts on the way.
  zh: 不是基督徒生活的全部，而是路上的路标。
- start: 827.57
  end: 832.13
  speaker: barron
  en: Guardrails even, to direct us on the journey into God.
  zh: 甚至是护栏，引导我们进入神的旅程。
- start: 832.13
  end: 836.71
  speaker: barron
  en: How do we come fully to understand the great truths of Christianity?
  zh: 我们如何完全理解基督教的伟大真理？
- start: 836.71
  end: 855.53
  speaker: barron
  en: Through the liturgy, through the sacraments, through the corporal and spiritual works of mercy, through the witness of the saints, etc. But the creed, these great statements of belief, are the signposts on the itinerarium mentis in Deum.
  zh: 通过礼仪，通过圣事，通过身体和心灵的慈善工作，通过圣徒的见证等。但信经，这些伟大的信仰声明，是「心灵朝向神的旅程」中的路标。
- start: 855.53
  end: 857.97
  speaker: barron
  en: Credo in unum Deum.
  zh: 我信独一的神。
- start: 857.97
  end: 861.77
  speaker: barron
  en: I believe into one God.
  zh: 我信进入独一的神。
- start: 862.78
  end: 863.92
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay?
  zh: 好吗？
- start: 864.04
  end: 870.96
  speaker: barron
  en: We now come to the word that is the key word in the entire creed.
  zh: 我们现在来到整个信经中的关键字。
- start: 871.37
  end: 877.71
  speaker: barron
  en: The creed is all about God and the things of God.
  zh: 信经全是关于神和神的事物。
- start: 878.35
  end: 884.23
  speaker: barron
  en: Belief, as we're using it here, has to do with God and those things in relation to God.
  zh: 我们在这里使用的信仰与神和与神相关的事物有关。
- start: 885.66
  end: 892.3
  speaker: barron
  en: So what can we say now about this great object of our belief about God?
  zh: 那么我们现在能说些什么关于我们信仰的这个伟大对象——神呢？
- start: 893.08
  end: 901.56
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, as I said, when I use the word God, I am not intending any being, any being in the universe.
  zh: 嗯，正如我所说，当我使用神这个词时，我并不指宇宙中的任何存在。
- start: 901.56
  end: 906.2
  speaker: barron
  en: It's a mistake, by the way, that atheists old and new make all the time.
  zh: 顺便说一下，这是新旧无神论者一直犯的错误。
- start: 906.83
  end: 912.03
  speaker: barron
  en: Looking around the universe to see evidence of this being, God.
  zh: 环顾宇宙寻找这个存在的证据，神。
- start: 912.03
  end: 916.31
  speaker: barron
  en: Some say there is one, some say there isn't. Let's look for traces.
  zh: 有些人说有，有些人说没有。让我们寻找痕迹。
- start: 916.39
  end: 920.13
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, that's precisely the wrong way to look for God.
  zh: 嗯，那正是寻找神的错误方式。
- start: 920.41
  end: 931.86
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, as I'm looking around this beautiful room, this wonderful Santa Barbara mission, I can see in every nook and cranny of this room evidence of the architect.
  zh: 你知道，当我环顾这个美丽的房间，这个美妙的圣巴巴拉传教站时，我可以在这个房间的每个角落看到建筑师的证据。
- start: 932.4
  end: 932.98
  speaker: barron
  en: Right?
  zh: 对吗？
- start: 932.98
  end: 936.44
  speaker: barron
  en: The architect who thought this building through.
  zh: 那个设计了这个建筑的建筑师。
- start: 936.74
  end: 938.54
  speaker: barron
  en: Again, in every detail.
  zh: 再次，在每一个细节中。
- start: 938.8
  end: 944.92
  speaker: barron
  en: I can guess a lot about the mind, about the style, about the intention of the architect.
  zh: 我可以猜测很多关于建筑师的思想、风格和意图。
- start: 946.57
  end: 948.33
  speaker: barron
  en: But what don't I do?
  zh: 但我不做什么？
- start: 948.33
  end: 951.65
  speaker: barron
  en: I don't look around the building to find the architect.
  zh: 我不会在建筑物周围寻找建筑师。
- start: 951.65
  end: 952.53
  speaker: barron
  en: Oh, there he is.
  zh: 哦，他在那里。
- start: 952.53
  end: 958.53
  speaker: barron
  en: So there's the roof and there's the walls and there's the decoration, there's the layout, there's the stairs, there's the sanctuary.
  zh: 所以有屋顶，有墙壁，有装饰，有布局，有楼梯，有圣所。
- start: 958.53
  end: 960.21
  speaker: barron
  en: Oh, and there's the architect.
  zh: 哦，还有建筑师。
- start: 960.31
  end: 964.77
  speaker: barron
  en: No, he's not one of the items within what God has made.
  zh: 不，他不是神所造的事物之一。
- start: 966.03
  end: 968.21
  speaker: barron
  en: So it goes now with God.
  zh: 神也是如此。
- start: 970.17
  end: 979.32
  speaker: barron
  en: Is God's mind, intention, will, love, evident in every nook and cranny of the universe?
  zh: 神的思想、意图、意志、爱是否在宇宙的每个角落都显而易见？
- start: 979.32
  end: 980.32
  speaker: barron
  en: Yes.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 980.5
  end: 981.52
  speaker: barron
  en: Yes.
  zh: 是的。
- start: 982.73
  end: 987.91
  speaker: barron
  en: But is God one of the items that I can pick out among other items in the universe?
  zh: 但神是我可以在宇宙中挑选出来的事物之一吗？
- start: 987.93
  end: 992.39
  speaker: barron
  en: No. God is not a being.
  zh: 不，神不是一个存在。
- start: 992.39
  end: 994.53
  speaker: barron
  en: Thomas Aquinas says that over and over again.
  zh: 托马斯·阿奎那一再说过。
- start: 994.53
  end: 996.75
  speaker: barron
  en: Not even the supreme being.
  zh: 甚至不是至高无上的存在。
- start: 996.75
  end: 1006.53
  speaker: barron
  en: So you say, well, here I am, here's this building, there's planet Earth, there's Jupiter, and then I suppose there's the great galaxies, and then there's God must be the highest of all beings.
  zh: 所以你说，好吧，我在这里，这里是这座建筑，这里是地球，这里是木星，然后我想有伟大的星系，然后神一定是所有存在中最高的。
- start: 1007.57
  end: 1009.87
  speaker: barron
  en: No, says Thomas Aquinas.
  zh: 不，托马斯·阿奎那说。
- start: 1010.62
  end: 1017.0
  speaker: barron
  en: God is not in any genus, not even the genus of being.
  zh: 神不属于任何类，甚至不属于存在的类。
- start: 1017.0
  end: 1018.6
  speaker: barron
  en: It's very interesting, isn't it?
  zh: 这很有趣，不是吗？
- start: 1018.61
  end: 1020.33
  speaker: barron
  en: He just means what I've been saying.
  zh: 他的意思正是我所说的。
- start: 1020.33
  end: 1023.35
  speaker: barron
  en: He's not one of the items within the universe.
  zh: 祂不是宇宙中的事物之一。
- start: 1024.22
  end: 1030.69
  speaker: barron
  en: Rather, God is the reason why there's something rather than nothing.
  zh: 相反，神是为什么有事物而不是虚无的原因。
- start: 1030.69
  end: 1039.25
  speaker: barron
  en: God, rather, is the source from which all finite existence comes.
  zh: 神是所有有限存在的源头。
- start: 1039.53
  end: 1043.69
  speaker: barron
  en: God is the reason why there's a universe at all.
  zh: 神是为什么有宇宙的原因。
- start: 1045.65
  end: 1053.49
  speaker: barron
  en: I think actually once we clarify the meaning of the word God, a lot of the classical objections to God sort of fall away.
  zh: 我认为一旦我们澄清了神这个词的含义，许多经典的反对神的论点就会消失。
- start: 1053.49
  end: 1058.95
  speaker: barron
  en: Many of them are born of the assumption that God is one of the items in the universe.
  zh: 许多论点源于认为神是宇宙中的一项。
- start: 1059.57
  end: 1063.95
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, so at this point, we reach a sort of impasse.
  zh: 好的，所以在这一点上，我们达到了某种僵局。
- start: 1063.95
  end: 1068.69
  speaker: barron
  en: Suppose an atheist were to say, yeah, okay, Bishop, I get that.
  zh: 假设一个无神论者说，是的，好吧，主教，我明白了。
- start: 1068.69
  end: 1070.21
  speaker: barron
  en: I get what you're talking about.
  zh: 我明白你在说什么。
- start: 1070.24
  end: 1073.78
  speaker: barron
  en: But I say there's nothing behind the universe.
  zh: 但我说宇宙背后什么也没有。
- start: 1073.78
  end: 1075.36
  speaker: barron
  en: There's just the universe.
  zh: 只有宇宙。
- start: 1076.03
  end: 1081.15
  speaker: barron
  en: You say, no, there's a great creative source behind the universe.
  zh: 你说，不，宇宙背后有一个伟大的创造源。
- start: 1081.87
  end: 1083.77
  speaker: barron
  en: Which one of us is right?
  zh: 我们谁是对的？
- start: 1084.98
  end: 1087.32
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, are we just stuck at that point?
  zh: 那么，我们就在这一点上卡住了吗？
- start: 1088.48
  end: 1103.55
  speaker: barron
  en: No. The Catholic Church has argued now for centuries that reason can explore the issue of God's existence, that we can, we can know with the light of our natural reason that God exists.
  zh: 不。公教会几个世纪以来一直在争论理性可以探索神存在的问题，我们可以用自然理性的光知道神存在。
- start: 1103.77
  end: 1107.37
  speaker: barron
  en: And of course this idea is grounded in the Bible itself.
  zh: 当然，这个观点是基于圣经本身的。
- start: 1107.37
  end: 1108.39
  speaker: barron
  en: Listen.
  zh: 听着。
- start: 1108.39
  end: 1112.77
  speaker: barron
  en: The Bible says the heavens are telling the glory of God.
  zh: 圣经说，诸天述说神的荣耀。
- start: 1113.15
  end: 1120.33
  speaker: barron
  en: Somehow looking up at the splendor of the heavens, we learn something about the being, the reality of God.
  zh: 仰望天上的辉煌，我们学到了一些关于神的存在和现实。
- start: 1120.94
  end: 1122.84
  speaker: barron
  en: How about this from St. Paul?
  zh: 圣保罗的这句话怎么样？
- start: 1122.98
  end: 1132.18
  speaker: barron
  en: His eternal power and the divine nature, invisible though they are, have been understood and seen through the things he has made.
  zh: 祂那永恒的能力和神性，虽然是看不见的，但通过祂所造的万物已经被理解和看见。
- start: 1133.0
  end: 1144.38
  speaker: barron
  en: So the wager is that by looking at certain features of the universe, we can intuit the existence of this great cause that stands behind the universe.
  zh: 所以赌注是，通过观察宇宙的某些特征，我们可以直觉到这个站在宇宙背后的伟大原因的存在。
- start: 1146.28
  end: 1150.12
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Now there are some people who don't require proofs or arguments.
  zh: 现在有些人不需要证据或论据。
- start: 1150.12
  end: 1151.9
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: They just believe naturally.
  zh: 他们只是自然地相信。
- start: 1151.9
  end: 1155.98
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Can you say a little bit more about the ease with which some people just come to faith?
  zh: 你能多说一点关于有些人轻易地来到信仰的情况吗？
- start: 1155.98
  end: 1159.8
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, I think of my grandmother here, who was a woman of extraordinary faith.
  zh: 你知道，我想到我的祖母，她是一个有着非凡信仰的女人。
- start: 1159.8
  end: 1163.62
  speaker: barron
  en: It would never have occurred to her for a moment not to believe in God.
  zh: 她从来没有一刻不相信神。
- start: 1163.62
  end: 1169.26
  speaker: barron
  en: But I sincerely doubt she ever had any exposure to formal arguments for God's existence.
  zh: 但我真诚地怀疑她是否曾接触过关于神存在的正式论据。
- start: 1169.26
  end: 1173.66
  speaker: barron
  en: If I had talked about God being actus purus, she wouldn't know what I was talking about.
  zh: 如果我谈到神是纯粹的行为，她不会知道我在说什么。
- start: 1174.04
  end: 1181.74
  speaker: barron
  en: I think for a lot of people, what's contained explicitly in things like arguments are kind of implicitly known.
  zh: 我认为对很多人来说，论据中明确包含的东西是隐含已知的。
- start: 1181.74
  end: 1187.2
  speaker: barron
  en: If I had said to my grandmother, Grandma, do you think God is sort of behind all things?
  zh: 如果我对我的祖母说，奶奶，你认为神在所有事物背后吗？
- start: 1187.2
  end: 1189.34
  speaker: barron
  en: I bet she would have said, yeah, sure.
  zh: 我敢打赌她会说，是的，当然。
- start: 1189.34
  end: 1192.42
  speaker: barron
  en: Or, you know, God is sort of the cause of all that happens.
  zh: 或者，你知道，神是所有发生的事情的原因。
- start: 1192.42
  end: 1193.66
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, of course.
  zh: 是的，当然。
- start: 1193.66
  end: 1198.72
  speaker: barron
  en: That she would have intuited what the proof lays out very explicitly, you know?
  zh: 她会直觉到论据明确阐明的内容，你知道吗？
- start: 1198.72
  end: 1209.06
  speaker: barron
  en: Or if you'd said maybe God is behind, you know, the great order in the universe and what the sciences discover, Grandma's kind of what God has placed in the world.
  zh: 或者如果你说，也许神在宇宙的伟大秩序和科学发现的背后，奶奶会认为那是神在世界中安排的。
- start: 1209.06
  end: 1211.92
  speaker: barron
  en: I bet she would have said, yeah, that makes sense, you know?
  zh: 我敢打赌她会说，是的，那很有道理，你知道吗？
- start: 1211.92
  end: 1218.08
  speaker: barron
  en: So I think for a lot of people, they intuit implicitly what the proofs bring out explicitly.
  zh: 所以我认为对很多人来说，他们隐含地直觉到论据明确带出的内容。
- start: 1218.08
  end: 1228.36
  speaker: barron
  en: But also I think of Friedrich Schleiermacher, the Protestant theologian, who said, it's like some people with a natural gift for music, some people just don't have an appreciation for music.
  zh: 但我也想到新教神学家弗里德里希·施莱尔马赫，他说，这就像有些人天生有音乐天赋，有些人就是不懂得欣赏音乐。
- start: 1228.36
  end: 1231.72
  speaker: barron
  en: He thought some people had a natural gift for religion.
  zh: 他认为有些人天生有宗教天赋。
- start: 1231.72
  end: 1234.78
  speaker: barron
  en: They were just, they got it right away.
  zh: 他们只是立刻明白了。
- start: 1234.78
  end: 1237.14
  speaker: barron
  en: Other people struggle, and I know that.
  zh: 其他人挣扎，我知道这一点。
- start: 1237.14
  end: 1245.42
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, from my dialogues with nonbelievers and skeptics and people that say, look, I want to believe, but I just, I don't have it in me.
  zh: 我的意思是，从我与非信徒、怀疑论者和那些说，看看，我想相信，但我就是没有信心的人对话中。
- start: 1245.42
  end: 1246.94
  speaker: barron
  en: I think there is that.
  zh: 我认为确实如此。
- start: 1246.94
  end: 1248.92
  speaker: barron
  en: There's like a natural ease of religion.
  zh: 有一种自然的宗教轻松感。
- start: 1248.92
  end: 1250.08
  speaker: barron
  en: My grandmother had that.
  zh: 我的祖母有这种感觉。
- start: 1250.08
  end: 1250.52
  speaker: barron
  en: My mother had that.
  zh: 我的母亲也有这种感觉。
- start: 1250.52
  end: 1251.86
  speaker: barron
  en: My father has it.
  zh: 我的父亲也有这种感觉。
- start: 1251.92
  end: 1253.76
  speaker: barron
  en: Not everybody does.
  zh: 不是每个人都有。
- start: 1254.42
  end: 1261.84
  speaker: barron
  en: So speaking now like as a pastoral person, as an evangelist, I think you've got to have a lot of tools in your kit, you know?
  zh: 所以现在像一个牧者，一个传道人那样说，我认为你需要在工具箱里有很多工具，你知道吗？
- start: 1261.84
  end: 1265.26
  speaker: barron
  en: Some people respond really well to arguments.
  zh: 有些人对论据反应很好。
- start: 1265.26
  end: 1266.28
  speaker: barron
  en: Good, good.
  zh: 很好，很好。
- start: 1266.28
  end: 1268.12
  speaker: barron
  en: They like to engage it that way.
  zh: 他们喜欢以这种方式参与。
- start: 1268.12
  end: 1271.4
  speaker: barron
  en: Others, they won't get to religion through that route.
  zh: 其他人，他们不会通过那条路到达宗教。
- start: 1271.4
  end: 1273.44
  speaker: barron
  en: But there are other routes, you know?
  zh: 但还有其他路线，你知道吗？
- start: 1273.44
  end: 1276.3
  speaker: barron
  en: So I think it's a mixed bag.
  zh: 所以我认为这是一个混合的情况。
- start: 1276.65
  end: 1285.79
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Maybe talk a little bit more about the benefits of the intellectual arguments for God's existence, especially for when people are going through tough times.
  zh: 也许多谈谈关于神存在的智力论据的好处，特别是当人们经历艰难时期时。
- start: 1285.79
  end: 1288.55
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, it can happen that people get stuck, you know?
  zh: 嗯，人们可能会陷入困境，你知道吗？
- start: 1288.55
  end: 1293.63
  speaker: barron
  en: An objection is raised, or they have an experience that kind of militates against belief in God.
  zh: 一个反对意见被提出，或者他们有一种反对信仰神的经历。
- start: 1293.63
  end: 1296.67
  speaker: barron
  en: I think for them, arguments can be useful.
  zh: 我认为对他们来说，论据是有用的。
- start: 1296.73
  end: 1299.49
  speaker: barron
  en: Not as though that's the whole story, you know?
  zh: 但那并不是全部，你知道吗？
- start: 1299.49
  end: 1301.49
  speaker: barron
  en: But they can open a door.
  zh: 但它们可以打开一扇门。
- start: 1301.49
  end: 1303.85
  speaker: barron
  en: They can get someone over an obstacle.
  zh: 它们可以帮助某人克服障碍。
- start: 1303.85
  end: 1307.49
  speaker: barron
  en: And then once that happens, they can move, you know, closer to religion.
  zh: 然后一旦发生这种情况，他们可以更接近宗教，你知道吗？
- start: 1307.49
  end: 1309.17
  speaker: barron
  en: So I see them that way.
  zh: 所以我这样看待它们。
- start: 1309.17
  end: 1317.59
  speaker: barron
  en: Thomas Aquinas referred to his arguments as monoducciones, which is Latin for mono means by the hand, ducere, to lead, right?
  zh: 托马斯·阿奎那称他的论据为monoducciones，拉丁文中mono的意思是手，ducere是引导，对吗？
- start: 1317.59
  end: 1319.13
  speaker: barron
  en: To lead you by the hand.
  zh: 手牵着你引导你。
- start: 1319.13
  end: 1322.31
  speaker: barron
  en: So you take a little kid and say, come on, let me show you something.
  zh: 所以你带着一个小孩说，来吧，让我给你看点东西。
- start: 1322.31
  end: 1323.81
  speaker: barron
  en: And you lead him by the hand.
  zh: 然后你牵着他的手引导他。
- start: 1323.81
  end: 1326.75
  speaker: barron
  en: And then you introduce him to a world.
  zh: 然后你把他介绍到一个世界。
- start: 1326.75
  end: 1329.37
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, that's what the proofs do in some cases, the arguments.
  zh: 嗯，那就是论据在某些情况下所做的事情。
- start: 1329.37
  end: 1335.57
  speaker: barron
  en: They can lead you by the hand so that you can come to a keener appreciation of religion.
  zh: 它们可以牵着你的手，让你对宗教有更深的理解。
- start: 1335.59
  end: 1337.49
  speaker: barron
  en: But I find them a lot funnier.
  zh: 但我觉得它们更有趣。
- start: 1337.49
  end: 1338.39
  speaker: barron
  en: They're not functioning that way for people.
  zh: 它们对人们不起作用。
- start: 1338.39
  end: 1339.99
  speaker: barron
  en: They get them over a block.
  zh: 它们帮助人们克服障碍。
- start: 1339.99
  end: 1341.01
  speaker: barron
  en: They open a window.
  zh: 它们打开了一扇窗。
- start: 1341.01
  end: 1342.17
  speaker: barron
  en: They open a door.
  zh: 它们打开了一扇门。
- start: 1342.17
  end: 1344.97
  speaker: barron
  en: But you got to go through the door and go through the window.
  zh: 但你必须通过那扇门和那扇窗。
- start: 1344.97
  end: 1346.75
  speaker: barron
  en: They don't do all the work.
  zh: 它们不是做所有的工作。
- start: 1347.17
  end: 1353.99
  speaker: barron
  en: What I want to do then in the remaining time in this lecture is look simply at two of these approaches to God.
  zh: 那么，我想在这次讲座的剩余时间里简单地看一下这两种接近神的方法。
- start: 1354.26
  end: 1356.36
  speaker: barron
  en: There are, by the way, dozens.
  zh: 顺便说一下，有几十种。
- start: 1356.36
  end: 1367.84
  speaker: barron
  en: If you look at the history of philosophy, go on even websites today and look through the debates about God, you'll see the dozens of arguments that have been proposed by people in the tradition.
  zh: 如果你看看哲学史，甚至今天上网浏览关于神的辩论，你会看到传统中人们提出的几十种论据。
- start: 1367.84
  end: 1370.14
  speaker: barron
  en: In regard to God's existence.
  zh: 关于神的存在。
- start: 1370.52
  end: 1373.64
  speaker: barron
  en: I'll look just at two in the time that we have.
  zh: 在我们有限的时间里，我只看两个。
- start: 1374.84
  end: 1381.76
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, one of the great objections to God comes today, as I've been hinting, from the world of science.
  zh: 你知道，今天对神的一个重大反对意见，正如我一直暗示的，来自科学界。
- start: 1383.39
  end: 1385.77
  speaker: barron
  en: Science knows a lot about the world.
  zh: 科学对世界了解很多。
- start: 1386.76
  end: 1394.28
  speaker: barron
  en: Science measures, experiments, understands even, it seems, the very beginnings of things.
  zh: 科学测量、实验，甚至似乎理解了事物的起源。
- start: 1395.98
  end: 1401.62
  speaker: barron
  en: Doesn't science, therefore, preclude belief in this mysterious cause you're calling God?
  zh: 因此，科学不是排除了对你称之为神的这个神秘原因的信仰吗？
- start: 1401.62
  end: 1408.82
  speaker: barron
  en: A lot of people today, especially young people, are in the grip of what I would call scientism.
  zh: 今天很多人，尤其是年轻人，受制于我称之为科学主义的东西。
- start: 1409.91
  end: 1414.85
  speaker: barron
  en: That's the reduction of all knowledge to the scientific form of knowledge.
  zh: 那就是将所有知识简化为科学形式的知识。
- start: 1415.3
  end: 1426.88
  speaker: barron
  en: Look, if that's all we can know, what the sciences tell us, what scientific observation, experimentation yield to us, well, then that does seem to rule God out of court.
  zh: 看，如果那是我们所能知道的一切，科学告诉我们的，科学观察、实验得出的，那么这似乎确实将神排除在外。
- start: 1428.36
  end: 1447.7
  speaker: barron
  en: What I want to do now in this first approach is take on this challenge and to go, in fact, right into the very heart of the sciences, and show that if we go into that place, we are actually led not away from God, but toward God.
  zh: 我现在想在这个第一种方法中接受这个挑战，实际上深入科学的核心，并展示如果我们进入那个地方，我们实际上不是远离神，而是走向神。
- start: 1451.04
  end: 1469.68
  speaker: barron
  en: Every science, I don't care what you're talking about, psychology, physics, biology, chemistry, astronomy, any science you can name, is predicated upon this one great mystical intuition.
  zh: 每一门科学，无论你谈论什么，心理学、物理学、生物学、化学、天文学，任何你能说出的科学，都是基于这个伟大的神秘直觉。
- start: 1469.68
  end: 1471.96
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm using that word mystical on purpose.
  zh: 我故意使用神秘这个词。
- start: 1472.98
  end: 1500.69
  speaker: barron
  en: Namely, the intuition that being is intelligible, that the universe in its totality and in every detail, in every nook and cranny, yes, from the grandest macrocosmic level to the smallest microscopic level, everything in the universe is marked by intelligibility.
  zh: 即，存在是可理解的直觉，宇宙的整体和每一个细节，每一个角落，从最宏大的宏观层面到最小的微观层面，宇宙中的一切都标志着可理解性。
- start: 1501.16
  end: 1514.5
  speaker: barron
  en: That means form, pattern, meaning, something that corresponds to the questing mind.
  zh: 这意味着形式、模式、意义，某种对应探索心灵的东西。
- start: 1517.01
  end: 1518.13
  speaker: barron
  en: Think about that.
  zh: 想想看。
- start: 1518.13
  end: 1522.97
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, if a scientist didn't assume this principle, she couldn't get her work off the ground.
  zh: 我的意思是，如果一个科学家不假设这个原则，她的工作就无法展开。
- start: 1522.97
  end: 1525.89
  speaker: barron
  en: She'd simply meet a chaotic universe.
  zh: 她只会遇到一个混乱的宇宙。
- start: 1526.28
  end: 1530.98
  speaker: barron
  en: She assumes she's going to meet a universe marked by intelligibility.
  zh: 她假设她将遇到一个标志着可理解性的宇宙。
- start: 1532.28
  end: 1536.6
  speaker: barron
  en: The medievals put it this way in their usual pithiness.
  zh: 中世纪的人用他们一贯的简洁方式这样表达。
- start: 1537.12
  end: 1539.46
  speaker: barron
  en: Ens est shibile, they said.
  zh: 他们说，存在是可理解的。
- start: 1539.46
  end: 1542.6
  speaker: barron
  en: It just means being is knowable.
  zh: 这只是意味着存在是可知的。
- start: 1544.23
  end: 1546.19
  speaker: barron
  en: Here's how Albert Einstein put it.
  zh: 这是阿尔伯特·爱因斯坦的说法。
- start: 1546.19
  end: 1548.29
  speaker: barron
  en: This is my favorite quote from Einstein.
  zh: 这是我最喜欢的爱因斯坦的名言。
- start: 1548.29
  end: 1552.55
  speaker: barron
  en: Einstein is very interesting on this because people quote him on both sides of this question.
  zh: 在这方面，爱因斯坦非常有趣，因为人们在这个问题的两边都引用他的话。
- start: 1552.55
  end: 1555.09
  speaker: barron
  en: But here's the one I think is most interesting.
  zh: 但这是我认为最有趣的一句。
- start: 1555.09
  end: 1564.91
  speaker: barron
  en: Einstein said, The most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it's comprehensible.
  zh: 爱因斯坦说，宇宙中最不可理解的事情是它是可理解的。
- start: 1565.47
  end: 1568.97
  speaker: barron
  en: Let that sink in from the greatest scientists of the 20th century.
  zh: 让20世纪最伟大的科学家的这句话沉淀一下。
- start: 1569.36
  end: 1576.53
  speaker: barron
  en: The strangest thing about the universe, the most incomprehensible thing, is that it's comprehensible.
  zh: 宇宙中最奇怪的事情，最不可理解的事情，是它是可理解的。
- start: 1577.08
  end: 1584.88
  speaker: barron
  en: See, we take it for granted, but we shouldn't. The longer you stare at this fact, the stranger, the odder it seems.
  zh: 看，我们认为这是理所当然的，但我们不应该。你盯着这个事实看的时间越长，它看起来就越奇怪，越离奇。
- start: 1586.59
  end: 1594.39
  speaker: barron
  en: Here's a challenge that some religious scientists have offered to their non -believing colleagues.
  zh: 这是一些宗教科学家对他们的不信仰同事提出的挑战。
- start: 1595.96
  end: 1599.98
  speaker: barron
  en: Where do the laws of nature come from?
  zh: 自然法则从何而来？
- start: 1600.62
  end: 1602.96
  speaker: barron
  en: See, that's the next question, isn't it, that presents itself.
  zh: 你看，那就是下一个问题，不是吗？
- start: 1602.96
  end: 1610.2
  speaker: barron
  en: Once you say the universe is radically intelligible, how do you explain that?
  zh: 一旦你说宇宙是根本上可理解的，你如何解释这一点？
- start: 1610.42
  end: 1612.78
  speaker: barron
  en: Where does that come from?
  zh: 那从何而来？
- start: 1612.78
  end: 1643.02
  speaker: barron
  en: In his wonderful introduction to Christianity, the great Joseph Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI, said the only finally valid explanation of the radical intelligibility of the universe is some great intelligence that has planted intelligibility in things.
  zh: 在他那本精彩的《基督教导论》中，伟大的若瑟·拉青格，即教宗本笃十六世说，唯一最终有效的解释宇宙根本可理解性的原因是某种伟大的智慧将可理解性植入事物中。
- start: 1645.31
  end: 1665.4
  speaker: barron
  en: In other words, go to the very heart and foundation of the science and you are led to a creative intelligence which has imbued all of matter and all of finitude with pattern, meaning, and intelligibility.
  zh: 换句话说，深入科学的核心和基础，你会被引导到一种创造性的智慧，它赋予所有物质和所有有限性以模式、意义和可理解性。
- start: 1666.11
  end: 1668.53
  speaker: barron
  en: Ratzinger makes this wonderful observation.
  zh: 拉青格做出了这个精彩的观察。
- start: 1668.97
  end: 1671.93
  speaker: barron
  en: We betray this even in our language.
  zh: 我们甚至在我们的语言中背叛了这一点。
- start: 1672.71
  end: 1678.42
  speaker: barron
  en: We speak of recognizing certain truths, don't we?
  zh: 我们说到认识某些真理，不是吗？
- start: 1678.56
  end: 1680.64
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, that word's interesting.
  zh: 嗯，这个词很有趣。
- start: 1681.52
  end: 1682.24
  speaker: barron
  en: Recognize.
  zh: 认识。
- start: 1682.24
  end: 1684.84
  speaker: barron
  en: Re-cognize.
  zh: 重新认识。
- start: 1685.41
  end: 1687.11
  speaker: barron
  en: To think again.
  zh: 再次思考。
- start: 1687.35
  end: 1698.12
  speaker: barron
  en: So when the scientist is recognizing a truth, she's thinking again what has already been thought.
  zh: 所以当科学家在认识一个真理时，她是在再次思考已经被思考过的东西。
- start: 1698.12
  end: 1707.34
  speaker: barron
  en: Her inquiring mind now corresponding to an intelligibility which has been placed there by a great intelligence.
  zh: 她的探索之心现在对应于一个伟大的智慧所赋予的可理解性。
- start: 1708.27
  end: 1710.85
  speaker: barron
  en: And here we can make appeal to the Bible, can't we?
  zh: 在这里我们可以诉诸圣经，不是吗？
- start: 1710.85
  end: 1714.35
  speaker: barron
  en: In the prologue to John's Gospel.
  zh: 在约翰福音的序言中。
- start: 1714.35
  end: 1721.45
  speaker: barron
  en: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
  zh: 太初有道，道与神同在，道就是神。
- start: 1721.45
  end: 1725.67
  speaker: barron
  en: And through that Word, all things came to be.
  zh: 万物是借着祂造的。
- start: 1725.67
  end: 1729.05
  speaker: barron
  en: That's not just pious boilerplate.
  zh: 那不仅仅是虔诚的套话。
- start: 1729.84
  end: 1737.11
  speaker: barron
  en: In the beginning was something like intelligence, the Word, pattern.
  zh: 太初有某种类似智慧的东西，道，模式。
- start: 1738.52
  end: 1741.86
  speaker: barron
  en: And through that Word, all things came to be.
  zh: 万物是借着那道造的。
- start: 1741.86
  end: 1746.02
  speaker: barron
  en: That's exactly why all things are marked by intelligibility.
  zh: 那正是为什么万物都标志着可理解性。
- start: 1746.08
  end: 1755.38
  speaker: barron
  en: In other words, the mysticism invoked at the beginning of John's Gospel is the condition for the possibility of the work of the sciences.
  zh: 换句话说，约翰福音开头提到的神秘主义是科学工作可能性的条件。
- start: 1757.33
  end: 1758.43
  speaker: barron
  en: You know what's interesting?
  zh: 你知道什么有趣吗？
- start: 1758.43
  end: 1761.03
  speaker: barron
  en: Many have pointed this out, not just Ratzinger.
  zh: 许多人指出了这一点，不仅仅是拉青格。
- start: 1762.03
  end: 1772.81
  speaker: barron
  en: It's not accidental that the physical sciences, that we call the modern physical sciences, emerged when and where they did.
  zh: 现代物理科学的出现并非偶然。
- start: 1773.4
  end: 1781.66
  speaker: barron
  en: In other words, out of the Christian universities of Europe, think of the great founders of the modern physical sciences.
  zh: 换句话说，来自欧洲的基督教大学，想想现代物理科学的伟大创始人。
- start: 1781.66
  end: 1785.74
  speaker: barron
  en: They were trained in the universities of the Christian West.
  zh: 他们在基督教西方的大学接受训练。
- start: 1787.27
  end: 1791.16
  speaker: barron
  en: What did they take in from their culture?
  zh: 他们从他们的文化中吸取了什么？
- start: 1791.16
  end: 1801.77
  speaker: barron
  en: They took in these great religious intuitions that the world that we know had been created by an intelligent God.
  zh: 他们吸取了这些伟大的宗教直觉，即我们所知的世界是由一位智慧的神创造的。
- start: 1802.22
  end: 1803.78
  speaker: barron
  en: That gave them two things.
  zh: 这给了他们两样东西。
- start: 1803.78
  end: 1806.4
  speaker: barron
  en: One, the conviction that the world is not God.
  zh: 一，确信世界不是神。
- start: 1806.4
  end: 1808.44
  speaker: barron
  en: The world is not divine.
  zh: 世界不是神圣的。
- start: 1808.44
  end: 1810.2
  speaker: barron
  en: Therefore, we don't worship nature.
  zh: 因此，我们不崇拜自然。
- start: 1810.2
  end: 1811.68
  speaker: barron
  en: We can explore it.
  zh: 我们可以探索它。
- start: 1811.68
  end: 1812.72
  speaker: barron
  en: We can examine it.
  zh: 我们可以研究它。
- start: 1812.72
  end: 1814.62
  speaker: barron
  en: We can experiment upon it.
  zh: 我们可以对它进行实验。
- start: 1815.39
  end: 1822.06
  speaker: barron
  en: And it gave them the view that all reality is marked by intelligibility.
  zh: 它给了他们一种观点，即所有现实都标志着可理解性。
- start: 1822.06
  end: 1831.74
  speaker: barron
  en: Once those two were in place, I can examine, analyze, experiment, and I go forth with utter confidence I'm going to meet the intelligibility of the world.
  zh: 一旦这两点确立，我就可以研究、分析、实验，并且我充满信心地前进，我将遇到世界的可理解性。
- start: 1832.36
  end: 1834.66
  speaker: barron
  en: The sciences can get off the ground.
  zh: 科学可以起飞。
- start: 1835.54
  end: 1841.32
  speaker: barron
  en: What made them possible were these fundamental theological assumptions.
  zh: 使它们成为可能的是这些基本的神学假设。
- start: 1841.68
  end: 1843.76
  speaker: barron
  en: You know, just one more observation here.
  zh: 你知道，这里还有一个观察。
- start: 1843.76
  end: 1847.76
  speaker: barron
  en: And this has come up in some interesting recent conversations.
  zh: 这在最近的一些有趣对话中出现了。
- start: 1849.66
  end: 1855.88
  speaker: barron
  en: The applicability of mathematics is in itself an argument for God's existence.
  zh: 数学的适用性本身就是神存在的一个论据。
- start: 1855.88
  end: 1857.5
  speaker: barron
  en: And what do I mean here?
  zh: 我的意思是什么？
- start: 1857.64
  end: 1882.48
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, the fact that mathematics, this highly abstract science, dealing with number and pattern and form and so on, in the most abstract sense, can be used to build a bridge, can be used to erect a building, can be used to create a nuclear reactor.
  zh: 嗯，数学，这门高度抽象的科学，处理数字、模式和形式等，在最抽象的意义上，可以用来建桥，可以用来建造建筑，可以用来创建核反应堆。
- start: 1882.48
  end: 1895.64
  speaker: barron
  en: My point is that's possible if and only if the great intelligibility that's inherent in mathematics corresponds to an intelligibility already in nature.
  zh: 我的观点是，只有当数学中固有的伟大可理解性与自然中已经存在的可理解性相对应时，这才是可能的。
- start: 1897.68
  end: 1904.74
  speaker: barron
  en: That's a strange and mystical fact that we can use mathematics in a practical way.
  zh: 我们可以实际应用数学，这是一个奇怪而神秘的事实。
- start: 1904.74
  end: 1910.38
  speaker: barron
  en: It means that the world has been thought into being.
  zh: 这意味着世界是通过思考而存在的。
- start: 1910.76
  end: 1916.96
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Bishop, a couple terms I hear tossed around are intelligibility and intelligent design.
  zh: 主教，我听到的一些术语是可理解性和智能设计。
- start: 1916.96
  end: 1918.66
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: What's the difference between these two?
  zh: 这两者之间有什么区别？
- start: 1918.66
  end: 1923.94
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, there's a major difference between them because I don't really subscribe to the intelligent design argument.
  zh: 嗯，它们之间有很大的区别，因为我并不真正认同智能设计的论点。
- start: 1923.94
  end: 1926.22
  speaker: barron
  en: And again, I'm going to be oversimplifying a bit.
  zh: 再说一次，我会稍微简化一下。
- start: 1926.22
  end: 1948.02
  speaker: barron
  en: But the argument there is that within a basically evolutionary framework, there are certain biological organisms that have what's called an irreducible complexity, which can only be described, it can't be explained in evolutionary terms, but only through interventionary terms, that an intelligent designer at some point had to intervene to make that organism possible.
  zh: 但论点是，在基本的进化框架内，有些生物体具有所谓的不可简化的复杂性，这只能被描述，不能用进化论解释，只能通过干预性术语解释，即某个时候一个智能设计者必须介入才能使那个生物体成为可能。
- start: 1948.02
  end: 1952.16
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, there's a big debate that goes on among the scientists about the biology.
  zh: 现在，科学家们关于生物学有很大的争论。
- start: 1952.16
  end: 1965.6
  speaker: barron
  en: My major problem about it, though, is it tends to see God as one fussy intervening cause among many, as though from time to time God has to intervene to sort of set things in a certain order.
  zh: 但我主要的问题是，它倾向于将神视为众多干预原因中的一个，好像神时不时地必须干预以某种方式安排事情。
- start: 1965.6
  end: 1970.88
  speaker: barron
  en: And I think that's born much more of an Enlightenment sort of deist conception.
  zh: 我认为这更多地源于启蒙时代的自然神论观念。
- start: 1971.37
  end: 1974.43
  speaker: barron
  en: The argument I was using is not from intelligent design.
  zh: 我使用的论点不是来自智能设计。
- start: 1974.43
  end: 1976.87
  speaker: barron
  en: It's from objective intelligibility.
  zh: 它来自客观的可理解性。
- start: 1976.87
  end: 1984.57
  speaker: barron
  en: So it's pointing at something far more basic and far more universal than mere biological irreducible complexity.
  zh: 所以它指向的是比单纯的生物学不可简化复杂性更基本和更普遍的东西。
- start: 1984.57
  end: 1992.33
  speaker: barron
  en: It's talking about the fact that in every nook and cranny, the universe is marked by intelligibility or by form.
  zh: 它谈论的是在每个角落，宇宙都标志着可理解性或形式的事实。
- start: 1992.57
  end: 1995.59
  speaker: barron
  en: Enza shibile, as I said, being is knowable.
  zh: 正如我所说，存在是可知的。
- start: 1995.59
  end: 2000.59
  speaker: barron
  en: So it's a much more universal and fundamental fact.
  zh: 所以这是一个更普遍和更基本的事实。
- start: 2000.65
  end: 2007.29
  speaker: barron
  en: And I think that can be explained only through recourse to some kind of grounding and creative intelligence.
  zh: 我认为这只能通过诉诸某种基础性和创造性的智慧来解释。
- start: 2007.29
  end: 2011.75
  speaker: barron
  en: So the language is a bit similar, but they're very different arguments.
  zh: 所以语言有点相似，但它们是非常不同的论点。
- start: 2011.89
  end: 2015.93
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, the second approach I want to use, and I'll close this talk with it.
  zh: 好的，我想使用的第二种方法，我将以此结束这次讲座。
- start: 2017.25
  end: 2021.62
  speaker: barron
  en: The argument from contingency.
  zh: 偶然性的论点。
- start: 2021.82
  end: 2026.7
  speaker: barron
  en: You can find it in different forms in a lot of the great philosophers and theologians of our tradition.
  zh: 你可以在我们传统的许多伟大哲学家和神学家的不同形式中找到它。
- start: 2026.7
  end: 2033.25
  speaker: barron
  en: And I find it's a very helpful way to see the reasonability of believing in God.
  zh: 我发现这是一个非常有帮助的方式来看待相信神的合理性。
- start: 2033.25
  end: 2035.87
  speaker: barron
  en: The argument from contingency.
  zh: 偶然性的论点。
- start: 2036.13
  end: 2037.43
  speaker: barron
  en: How does it start?
  zh: 它是如何开始的？
- start: 2037.47
  end: 2042.17
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, it starts with something that's very much part of our ordinary experience.
  zh: 嗯，它从我们日常经验的一部分开始。
- start: 2043.41
  end: 2052.74
  speaker: barron
  en: That the things around us, the states of affairs that obtain, exist, but they don't have to exist.
  zh: 我们周围的事物，现状，存在，但它们不必存在。
- start: 2053.81
  end: 2062.75
  speaker: barron
  en: So, for example, here I am at this podium giving this lecture, surrounded by this nice crew of people with cameras and lights.
  zh: 例如，我在这个讲台上讲课，周围是这些带着摄像机和灯光的好人。
- start: 2062.75
  end: 2064.89
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm in this beautiful setting.
  zh: 我在这个美丽的环境中。
- start: 2064.89
  end: 2067.53
  speaker: barron
  en: This state of affairs is obtaining.
  zh: 这种情况正在发生。
- start: 2067.53
  end: 2069.21
  speaker: barron
  en: It exists, right?
  zh: 它存在，对吗？
- start: 2070.52
  end: 2072.76
  speaker: barron
  en: But does it have to exist?
  zh: 但它必须存在吗？
- start: 2073.47
  end: 2075.01
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, obviously not.
  zh: 显然不是。
- start: 2075.01
  end: 2077.23
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, I didn't have to exist.
  zh: 我的意思是，我不必存在。
- start: 2077.23
  end: 2079.11
  speaker: barron
  en: I might have stayed in bed this morning.
  zh: 我今天早上可能会待在床上。
- start: 2079.11
  end: 2082.25
  speaker: barron
  en: This crew might have missed their flight from Chicago.
  zh: 这群人可能会错过从芝加哥的航班。
- start: 2082.25
  end: 2086.07
  speaker: barron
  en: This building might have been destroyed by an earthquake last night.
  zh: 这座建筑可能昨晚被地震摧毁。
- start: 2086.07
  end: 2089.27
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, there's all kinds of reasons why this wouldn't exist.
  zh: 我的意思是，有各种各样的原因导致这不会存在。
- start: 2090.49
  end: 2095.43
  speaker: barron
  en: It exists, but it doesn't have to exist.
  zh: 它存在，但它不必存在。
- start: 2095.71
  end: 2109.64
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, true of this situation, true of practically everything you experience, true of all the things around us, from cars and animals and plants to planets, they exist, but they don't have to exist.
  zh: 现在，这种情况是如此，你几乎所有的经历都是如此，我们周围的所有事物，从汽车、动物和植物到行星，它们存在，但它们不必存在。
- start: 2110.7
  end: 2112.66
  speaker: barron
  en: What do I conclude from that?
  zh: 我从中得出什么结论？
- start: 2112.79
  end: 2116.55
  speaker: barron
  en: I conclude that they don't explain themselves.
  zh: 我得出的结论是，它们不能自我解释。
- start: 2118.26
  end: 2126.24
  speaker: barron
  en: And therefore, I have to look for a cause or a set of causes to explain them.
  zh: 因此，我必须寻找一个或一组原因来解释它们。
- start: 2126.24
  end: 2134.92
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, can I suggest to everybody, that intuition, which is a very valid rational intuition, is what lies behind all the sciences, too.
  zh: 现在，我可以向大家建议，这种直觉，这是一种非常有效的理性直觉，也是所有科学背后的基础。
- start: 2135.48
  end: 2137.72
  speaker: barron
  en: How come scientists look for causes?
  zh: 为什么科学家寻找原因？
- start: 2137.72
  end: 2147.46
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, because they realize this truth, that things around them, states of affairs around them, objects and animals and so on around them exist, but don't have to exist.
  zh: 嗯，因为他们意识到这个真理，他们周围的事物、现状、物体和动物等存在，但不必存在。
- start: 2148.21
  end: 2149.75
  speaker: barron
  en: An explosion happened.
  zh: 爆炸发生了。
- start: 2149.75
  end: 2150.93
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, how do you explain that?
  zh: 嗯，你怎么解释呢？
- start: 2150.93
  end: 2152.47
  speaker: barron
  en: It didn't have to happen.
  zh: 它不一定要发生。
- start: 2152.93
  end: 2155.77
  speaker: barron
  en: So you begin to look for causes.
  zh: 所以你开始寻找原因。
- start: 2156.54
  end: 2160.86
  speaker: barron
  en: So, let's come back to my example of this state of affairs.
  zh: 所以，让我们回到我这个现状的例子。
- start: 2160.86
  end: 2165.88
  speaker: barron
  en: Here I am in this beautiful church in front of this crew giving this lecture.
  zh: 我在这座美丽的教堂里，在这群人面前讲课。
- start: 2166.87
  end: 2168.95
  speaker: barron
  en: There must be causes for it.
  zh: 一定有原因。
- start: 2169.29
  end: 2170.31
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, yes, indeed.
  zh: 嗯，是的，确实如此。
- start: 2170.31
  end: 2173.17
  speaker: barron
  en: For example, the fact that I'm at least relatively healthy.
  zh: 例如，我至少相对健康的事实。
- start: 2173.17
  end: 2176.93
  speaker: barron
  en: That enables me right now to be pronouncing these words.
  zh: 这使我现在能够说这些话。
- start: 2177.5
  end: 2180.98
  speaker: barron
  en: The fact that these cameras in front of me are functioning.
  zh: 这些摄像机在我面前正常工作的事实。
- start: 2181.04
  end: 2183.48
  speaker: barron
  en: The fact that these lights are on.
  zh: 这些灯亮着的事实。
- start: 2183.74
  end: 2189.06
  speaker: barron
  en: The fact that there is oxygen in this room, which enable me to speak and to stay alive.
  zh: 这个房间里有氧气，使我能够说话和存活的事实。
- start: 2189.06
  end: 2193.22
  speaker: barron
  en: The fact that I'm standing on a stable platform.
  zh: 我站在一个稳定的平台上的事实。
- start: 2193.8
  end: 2199.64
  speaker: barron
  en: These are all causes that are allowing this state of affairs to exist.
  zh: 这些都是使这种现状存在的原因。
- start: 2200.24
  end: 2202.42
  speaker: barron
  en: You say, okay, makes sense.
  zh: 你说，好吧，有道理。
- start: 2203.12
  end: 2205.26
  speaker: barron
  en: But is your mind satisfied?
  zh: 但你的心满意了吗？
- start: 2206.42
  end: 2207.84
  speaker: barron
  en: Not at all.
  zh: 一点也不。
- start: 2208.55
  end: 2214.12
  speaker: barron
  en: Your mind continues to ask, well, okay, how about those causes?
  zh: 你的心继续问，好吧，那些原因呢？
- start: 2214.53
  end: 2216.49
  speaker: barron
  en: Do they explain themselves?
  zh: 它们能自我解释吗？
- start: 2217.15
  end: 2221.52
  speaker: barron
  en: Or are they themselves contingent?
  zh: 还是它们本身是偶然的？
- start: 2221.52
  end: 2222.3
  speaker: barron
  en: It's cool.
  zh: 这很有趣。
- start: 2222.3
  end: 2228.12
  speaker: barron
  en: That little word contingent from the Latin, contingere, means to touch with.
  zh: 那个小词contingent来自拉丁语contingere，意思是接触。
- start: 2228.8
  end: 2234.9
  speaker: barron
  en: Remember in the Latin of the Gospels, Jesus says, Noli me tangere, to Mary Magdalene.
  zh: 记得在福音书的拉丁文中，耶稣对抹大拉的马利亚说，Noli me tangere。
- start: 2234.9
  end: 2235.68
  speaker: barron
  en: Don't touch me.
  zh: 不要碰我。
- start: 2235.68
  end: 2236.92
  speaker: barron
  en: Noli me tangere.
  zh: Noli me tangere。
- start: 2237.7
  end: 2240.26
  speaker: barron
  en: Contingere, contingent, means touching upon.
  zh: Contingere，偶然，意思是触及。
- start: 2240.26
  end: 2245.9
  speaker: barron
  en: So this state of affairs, as I said, is touching upon all sorts of causes that produce it.
  zh: 所以正如我所说，这种现状触及了产生它的各种原因。
- start: 2245.9
  end: 2252.17
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, are they self -explanatory or are they contingent?
  zh: 好吧，它们是自我解释的还是偶然的？
- start: 2252.17
  end: 2257.89
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, I mean, just a moment's reflection reveals that they too are contingent.
  zh: 嗯，我的意思是，只要稍加反思就会发现它们也是偶然的。
- start: 2257.89
  end: 2263.45
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of, I said, well, you know, the fact that I'm relatively healthy is a cause of my giving this talk.
  zh: 想想，我说过，你知道，我相对健康的事实是我进行这次演讲的原因。
- start: 2263.45
  end: 2266.85
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, yeah, but what causes my health?
  zh: 嗯，是的，但是什么导致了我的健康？
- start: 2267.24
  end: 2271.08
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, the functioning of all kinds of systems with my body.
  zh: 嗯，我身体内各种系统的运作。
- start: 2271.08
  end: 2273.6
  speaker: barron
  en: I suppose the food I took in this morning.
  zh: 我想是我今天早上吃的食物。
- start: 2273.6
  end: 2276.0
  speaker: barron
  en: I suppose, again, the oxygen I'm breathing.
  zh: 我想，还有我呼吸的氧气。
- start: 2276.28
  end: 2278.26
  speaker: barron
  en: Those are the causes of my good health.
  zh: 这些是我健康的原因。
- start: 2278.26
  end: 2279.52
  speaker: barron
  en: How about these cameras?
  zh: 这些摄像机呢？
- start: 2279.52
  end: 2281.62
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, they're dependent upon all sorts of factors.
  zh: 嗯，它们依赖于各种因素。
- start: 2281.62
  end: 2287.0
  speaker: barron
  en: Including, I imagine, the electrical grid or whatever within this building.
  zh: 包括，我想，这栋建筑内的电网或其他什么东西。
- start: 2287.67
  end: 2290.33
  speaker: barron
  en: Think of the stability of the ground I'm on.
  zh: 想想我所站立的地面的稳定性。
- start: 2290.33
  end: 2293.29
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, that's dependent upon the stability of the Earth.
  zh: 嗯，那依赖于地球的稳定性。
- start: 2293.83
  end: 2295.73
  speaker: barron
  en: How about the Earth itself?
  zh: 地球本身呢？
- start: 2295.73
  end: 2299.07
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, that's dependent upon the orbit it's in around the sun.
  zh: 嗯，那依赖于它绕太阳运行的轨道。
- start: 2299.07
  end: 2303.07
  speaker: barron
  en: If it went off that orbit, it'd be flying off into space and we wouldn't be standing here.
  zh: 如果它偏离了轨道，它会飞入太空，我们就不会站在这里了。
- start: 2303.21
  end: 2310.79
  speaker: barron
  en: How about the fact that the temperature in this room is such that it's not so hot we'd all be destroyed, so cold we'd all be killed?
  zh: 那么这个房间的温度呢，不是太热以至于我们都会被毁灭，也不是太冷以至于我们都会被冻死？
- start: 2311.36
  end: 2320.61
  speaker: barron
  en: My point is, that first set of causes are themselves contingent upon a whole other set of causes.
  zh: 我的观点是，第一组原因本身依赖于另一组原因。
- start: 2321.02
  end: 2323.22
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, how about the things I just mentioned?
  zh: 现在，我刚才提到的那些事情呢？
- start: 2323.22
  end: 2332.58
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, again, a moment's reflection reveals that they too are contingent on ever higher causes and sets of causes.
  zh: 嗯，再次，稍加反思就会发现它们也依赖于更高的原因和一组原因。
- start: 2333.74
  end: 2336.3
  speaker: barron
  en: Okay, okay, so far so familiar.
  zh: 好吧，好吧，到目前为止都很熟悉。
- start: 2336.56
  end: 2339.5
  speaker: barron
  en: But here's the hinge of the argument.
  zh: 但这是论点的关键。
- start: 2340.38
  end: 2342.94
  speaker: barron
  en: Can this process go on forever?
  zh: 这个过程可以永远继续下去吗？
- start: 2343.4
  end: 2347.68
  speaker: barron
  en: Can I just say, well, I suppose it just goes on and on and on and on infinitely?
  zh: 我可以说，我想它只是无限地继续下去吗？
- start: 2347.68
  end: 2355.42
  speaker: barron
  en: One cause depending on another, depending on another, depending on another, back, back, out, out, out, forever and ever, infinitely?
  zh: 一个原因依赖于另一个原因，依赖于另一个原因，依赖于另一个原因，回去，回去，出去，出去，永远无限地？
- start: 2356.38
  end: 2359.1
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, the answer is no.
  zh: 嗯，答案是否定的。
- start: 2359.44
  end: 2362.84
  speaker: barron
  en: Because to say that is repugnant to reason.
  zh: 因为这么说是违反理性的。
- start: 2363.85
  end: 2370.95
  speaker: barron
  en: To say that is never adequately to explain the state of affairs that obtains right now.
  zh: 这么说永远不能充分解释现在的状况。
- start: 2371.05
  end: 2383.49
  speaker: barron
  en: The fact that I'm here giving this talk, if I just say, oh, no, I postpone the causal explanation infinitely, then I don't explain why I'm standing here in front of you.
  zh: 我在这里讲这次演讲的事实，如果我只是说，哦，不，我无限期地推迟因果解释，那么我就不能解释为什么我站在你们面前。
- start: 2383.49
  end: 2389.51
  speaker: barron
  en: You know what I love is those who say, oh, you know, religious people, they lack critical intelligence.
  zh: 你知道我喜欢的是那些说，哦，你知道，宗教人士，他们缺乏批判性智慧的人。
- start: 2390.59
  end: 2392.69
  speaker: barron
  en: I say no, on the contrary.
  zh: 我说不，恰恰相反。
- start: 2392.78
  end: 2395.32
  speaker: barron
  en: I say keep opening your mind.
  zh: 我说，继续敞开你的心灵。
- start: 2395.37
  end: 2397.53
  speaker: barron
  en: Keep asking the relevant question.
  zh: 继续问相关的问题。
- start: 2397.53
  end: 2424.52
  speaker: barron
  en: Keep asking until you find the valid answer, which is we must finally come to some reality which is not caused, which is not deriving its basis from something outside of itself, that exists, listen now, because its very nature is to exist.
  zh: 继续问，直到你找到有效的答案，那就是我们最终必须找到某种不是由外部原因引起的现实，它的存在基础不是来自于它自身之外的东西，它存在，因为它的本质就是存在。
- start: 2426.53
  end: 2431.09
  speaker: barron
  en: Thomas Aquinas called this the uncaused cause.
  zh: 托马斯·阿奎那称之为无因之因。
- start: 2431.09
  end: 2435.01
  speaker: barron
  en: He also called it the necessary being.
  zh: 他也称之为必然存在。
- start: 2436.13
  end: 2441.16
  speaker: barron
  en: An endless appeal to contingent causality explains not one little thing.
  zh: 无止境地诉诸偶然因果关系不能解释任何一件小事。
- start: 2442.14
  end: 2459.44
  speaker: barron
  en: The even essence, contingency, non -self -explanatory quality of the world leads us finally toward some reality that does explain itself, whose very nature is to be.
  zh: 世界的本质、偶然性、非自我解释的特质最终引导我们走向某种能够自我解释的现实，其本质就是存在。
- start: 2460.59
  end: 2464.39
  speaker: barron
  en: This is what people mean when they use the word.
  zh: 这就是人们使用这个词时的意思。
- start: 2467.89
  end: 2472.33
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Bishop, I'm struggling with the relationship between faith and reason.
  zh: 主教，我在信仰与理性之间的关系上挣扎。
- start: 2472.33
  end: 2474.13
  speaker: SPEAKER_00
  en: Can you say a little bit more about that?
  zh: 你能多说一点吗？
- start: 2474.13
  end: 2479.77
  speaker: barron
  en: Yeah, you know what's helped me in that regard is the way we come to know another person.
  zh: 是的，你知道在这方面帮助我的是我们认识另一个人的方式。
- start: 2479.77
  end: 2486.95
  speaker: barron
  en: So if I want to find out about someone, let's say I'm kind of intrigued by a person, well, I can use my reason to a large extent.
  zh: 所以如果我想了解某个人，比方说我对某个人很感兴趣，那么我可以在很大程度上使用我的理性。
- start: 2486.95
  end: 2488.77
  speaker: barron
  en: I can Google that person.
  zh: 我可以用谷歌搜索那个人。
- start: 2488.77
  end: 2491.11
  speaker: barron
  en: I can look him up on Wikipedia.
  zh: 我可以在维基百科上查找他。
- start: 2491.13
  end: 2494.93
  speaker: barron
  en: I can do an Internet search and find out a lot of information.
  zh: 我可以在互联网上搜索，找到很多信息。
- start: 2494.93
  end: 2499.09
  speaker: barron
  en: Indeed, you know, maybe where he was born, his family, where he went to school, his job.
  zh: 确实，你知道，也许他出生在哪里，他的家庭，他在哪里上学，他的工作。
- start: 2499.09
  end: 2500.39
  speaker: barron
  en: I can find out a lot.
  zh: 我可以发现很多。
- start: 2500.59
  end: 2503.21
  speaker: barron
  en: Moreover, I can talk to his friends.
  zh: 此外，我可以和他的朋友谈谈。
- start: 2503.21
  end: 2506.93
  speaker: barron
  en: I can talk to other people that have dealt with him and get their impressions.
  zh: 我可以和其他与他打过交道的人谈谈，了解他们的印象。
- start: 2507.17
  end: 2509.25
  speaker: barron
  en: Moreover, I can get my own impressions.
  zh: 此外，我可以得到我自己的印象。
- start: 2509.25
  end: 2512.77
  speaker: barron
  en: I can meet the person or observe him from a distance or whatever.
  zh: 我可以见到那个人，或者从远处观察他，等等。
- start: 2512.77
  end: 2516.81
  speaker: barron
  en: In that process, my reason has the prime role.
  zh: 在这个过程中，我的理性起着主要作用。
- start: 2516.81
  end: 2519.35
  speaker: barron
  en: I'm actively finding out what I can.
  zh: 我在积极地发现我能发现的东西。
- start: 2519.35
  end: 2521.57
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, so it goes in the religious order.
  zh: 嗯，宗教秩序也是如此。
- start: 2521.57
  end: 2525.87
  speaker: barron
  en: I mean, I can use my mind to understand God.
  zh: 我的意思是，我可以用我的头脑来理解神。
- start: 2525.87
  end: 2528.49
  speaker: barron
  en: And so the famous arguments are examples of that.
  zh: 因此，著名的论点就是例子。
- start: 2528.49
  end: 2534.17
  speaker: barron
  en: I can search out God, and I can come to real knowledge about God.
  zh: 我可以寻找神，并且可以获得关于神的真实知识。
- start: 2534.17
  end: 2536.73
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, go back to the coming to know a person.
  zh: 现在，回到认识一个人的过程。
- start: 2538.24
  end: 2549.52
  speaker: barron
  en: At the propitious moment, if you really want to know someone deeply, you want to know that person's heart, you can't get at that through reason alone.
  zh: 在适当的时候，如果你真的想深入了解某人，你想了解那个人的心，你不能仅仅通过理性来达到这一点。
- start: 2549.52
  end: 2560.98
  speaker: barron
  en: There's got to be a moment in the relationship when the person opens his or her heart, where she tells you something you'd never know on your own.
  zh: 在关系中必须有一个时刻，当那个人敞开心扉，告诉你一些你自己永远不会知道的事情。
- start: 2560.98
  end: 2569.7
  speaker: barron
  en: It's something so secret and so intimate and so unique to her that she can only open her heart to you.
  zh: 这是一些如此秘密、如此亲密、如此独特的事情，她只能向你敞开心扉。
- start: 2569.7
  end: 2573.3
  speaker: barron
  en: Now, at that moment, you've got to make a decision.
  zh: 现在，在那一刻，你必须做出决定。
- start: 2573.46
  end: 2576.42
  speaker: barron
  en: Do I believe her or not?
  zh: 我相信她还是不相信她？
- start: 2577.04
  end: 2578.8
  speaker: barron
  en: So, you might test it.
  zh: 所以，你可能会测试一下。
- start: 2578.8
  end: 2582.36
  speaker: barron
  en: Is what she's telling me in line with what I already know?
  zh: 她告诉我的是否与我已经知道的相符？
- start: 2582.36
  end: 2584.92
  speaker: barron
  en: Or is it like totally out of step with it?
  zh: 还是完全不符？
- start: 2585.24
  end: 2589.7
  speaker: barron
  en: Does it reflect this person as I've come to know her on my own?
  zh: 它是否反映了我自己认识的这个人？
- start: 2590.25
  end: 2594.13
  speaker: barron
  en: Have I learned to trust this person?
  zh: 我是否学会了信任这个人？
- start: 2594.13
  end: 2601.09
  speaker: barron
  en: And if all those things come together, I probably will say, yeah, okay, I believe.
  zh: 如果所有这些事情都结合在一起，我可能会说，是的，好吧，我相信。
- start: 2601.43
  end: 2604.23
  speaker: barron
  en: I've chosen to believe what you've told me.
  zh: 我选择相信你告诉我的。
- start: 2604.43
  end: 2606.27
  speaker: barron
  en: I can't verify it on my own.
  zh: 我无法自己验证。
- start: 2606.27
  end: 2618.06
  speaker: barron
  en: Even in principle, even if I wanted to, I couldn't. But you've told me something about yourself, and because I've come to trust you, I've come to believe you, right?
  zh: 即使在原则上，即使我想，我也不能。但你告诉了我一些关于你自己的事情，因为我已经开始信任你，所以我相信你，对吗？
- start: 2618.06
  end: 2626.92
  speaker: barron
  en: See, Aquinas says, it's a very interesting thing, that in faith, it's a strange moment when the will commands the intellect.
  zh: 你看，阿奎那说，这是一个非常有趣的事情，在信仰中，这是一个意志指挥理性的奇怪时刻。
- start: 2626.92
  end: 2628.96
  speaker: barron
  en: See, normally the intellect commands the will.
  zh: 你看，通常是理性指挥意志。
- start: 2628.96
  end: 2630.48
  speaker: barron
  en: The intellect directs the will.
  zh: 理性指引意志。
- start: 2630.48
  end: 2634.56
  speaker: barron
  en: But when it comes to faith, your will directs the mind.
  zh: 但当涉及到信仰时，你的意志指引心灵。
- start: 2634.56
  end: 2637.36
  speaker: barron
  en: Your will says, believe that.
  zh: 你的意志说，相信那。
- start: 2637.4
  end: 2638.62
  speaker: barron
  en: Believe that.
  zh: 相信那。
- start: 2638.62
  end: 2645.92
  speaker: barron
  en: Because I've come to love the God who's spoken to me, and therefore I believe.
  zh: 因为我已经爱上了对我说话的神，所以我相信。
- start: 2646.26
  end: 2649.86
  speaker: barron
  en: To me, that's a really telling analogy for faith and reason.
  zh: 对我来说，这是一个非常有说服力的信仰与理性的类比。
- start: 2649.86
  end: 2651.74
  speaker: barron
  en: We don't eschew reason.
  zh: 我们不回避理性。
- start: 2651.74
  end: 2653.22
  speaker: barron
  en: Like, I just leave that behind.
  zh: 好像，我只是把它抛在脑后。
- start: 2653.22
  end: 2655.6
  speaker: barron
  en: I just run off into pure faith.
  zh: 我只是奔向纯粹的信仰。
- start: 2655.6
  end: 2656.1
  speaker: barron
  en: No, no.
  zh: 不，不。
- start: 2656.1
  end: 2659.12
  speaker: barron
  en: Exercise your reason all the way, all the way.
  zh: 一路运用你的理性，一路。
- start: 2659.12
  end: 2668.24
  speaker: barron
  en: And at the end of reason, when reason's done all its work, then you're ready for this move of faith, you know?
  zh: 在理性尽其所能之后，你就准备好迈向信仰了，你知道吗？
- start: 2668.24
  end: 2673.94
  speaker: barron
  en: The problem would be the infrarational, what's below reason.
  zh: 问题在于低于理性的东西。
- start: 2673.94
  end: 2678.86
  speaker: barron
  en: So before I exercise any of my own reason, I just start believing any old thing.
  zh: 所以在我运用任何自己的理性之前，我就开始相信任何旧事物。
- start: 2678.86
  end: 2680.5
  speaker: barron
  en: Well, that's credulity.
  zh: 嗯，那是轻信。
- start: 2680.5
  end: 2681.54
  speaker: barron
  en: That's superstition.
  zh: 那是迷信。
- start: 2681.54
  end: 2686.72
  speaker: barron
  en: What I'm talking about is a faith on the far side of reason.
  zh: 我所说的是理性彼岸的信仰。
- start: 2686.72
  end: 2687.74
  speaker: barron
  en: Does that make sense?
  zh: 这有道理吗？
- start: 2687.74
  end: 2696.32
  speaker: barron
  en: Reason having done all of its work, now the heart opens to the heart of another.
  zh: 理性完成了所有的工作，现在心灵向另一颗心灵敞开。
- start: 2696.34
  end: 2698.36
  speaker: barron
  en: In this case, the heart of God.
  zh: 在这种情况下，是神的心。
- start: 2698.36
  end: 2703.4
  speaker: barron
  en: That's why Newman's, Cardinal Newman's great motto, cor ad cor loquitur.
  zh: 这就是为什么纽曼枢机的伟大格言是「心对心说话」。
- start: 2703.4
  end: 2705.2
  speaker: barron
  en: Heart speaks to heart.
  zh: 心对心说话。
- start: 2705.2
  end: 2707.0
  speaker: barron
  en: That's what happens at the moment of faith.
  zh: 这就是信仰时刻发生的事情。
